Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 955 | The End of IVF in Alabama?

Starting point is 00:00:00 Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort.

Starting point is 00:00:19 We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this D-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us. The Alabama Supreme Court just ruled that embryos in or outside the womb are human children entitled to human rights. What are the implications of this ruling for practices like IVF? Also at churches across America this Sunday. There was preached the gospel of Fannie Willis. What in the world does this all mean? This episode of Relatable is brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers.

Starting point is 00:01:08 If you subscribe to a box now, you get four years of free bacon, which is incredible. Just use my code Alley at checkout. This good ranchers.com code alley. Hey guys, welcome to Relatable. Happy Wednesday. Hope everyone is having a wonderful week so far. All right, before we get into it, just a couple of things. One, as you see if you're watching on YouTube, I got my do the next right thing shirt on and it is restocked on the Allie merch store. If you go to Alleymerch.com, we've got our Razor respectful ruckus shirts or Do the Next Right Thing shirts, all restocked. So make sure that you order those. This is probably my favorite merch that we have. That in the self-love stuff. Those have been my favorite pieces of

Starting point is 00:02:04 merch so far. So go to alleymerch.com for that. Also, I've seen a lot of you asking me when the Dr. James White and the Trent Horn debate on Catholicism and Protestantism is coming out. It's going to be out in a couple weeks. And I think that there might have been some confusion about it being on the show versus for Blaze TV subscribers. It is going to be for Blaze TV subscribers and as I talked about last week it's so important for us to offer content that is behind the paywall because the more content that we have just for subscribers the more we can protect ourselves from the sensors on places like YouTube and Apple podcasts and places that like to stifle conservative and Christian views we will always continue to offer this free content

Starting point is 00:03:02 but we are going to be building up our content behind the paywall as well for subscribers. So go to blazedtv.com, use promo code alley. Really easy to remember, blazTV.com promo code alley. You'll get a discount on your subscription. You'll have access to that debate. We're going to have lots of debates under the series name debatable in the coming months and years. And then we've also got another series that we will be starting as well. just for Blaze TV subscribers.

Starting point is 00:03:34 So go to blazTV.com and use code Alley to sign up for that discount. Super excited about what we have coming down the pipeline. All right. A ton of you have been messaging me about this Alabama ruling in asking me what I think about it. The Alabama Supreme Court ruled that frozen, unimplanted embryos qualify as human children. Obviously, this has many implications for. things like in vitro fertilization. IVF is probably one of the most controversial topics that I discuss and have been discussing since either 2019 or 2020. So obviously there have been a lot of

Starting point is 00:04:18 thinkers and commentators who have been discussing this for a lot longer than I have for decades and decades, really since the inception of IVF. You've had a lot of Christian and Catholic thinkers discussing some of the ethical issues with IVF. However, it hasn't really been a central conversation in evangelicalism. And I think a lot of it has to do with just kind of our lack of cohesive theology of the body. I think we've kind of got down what we think about sex versus sex outside of marriage, gender, sometimes gender roles. There's disagreement on that sex, sexuality, things like that. But when it comes to IVF, when it comes to surrogacy, when it comes to reproductive technology, I found that many evangelicals, and yes, many Catholics

Starting point is 00:05:15 too, but since I'm surrounded by so many evangelicals, I just see a lot of thoughtlessness when it comes to these subjects. And it's kind of just the mentality of, well, I'm pro-life. And so I'm pro baby and I think any method or means that we employ to create life is good. And really there hasn't been a whole lot of consideration of how the life is created, if it's moral, if it's ethical to use in vitro fertilization and then to put embryos on ice. And there's really a disconnect because we as pro-lifers say life is life at conception, made in the image of God, made with purpose and with dignity, and just like any other human, that tiny human at the earliest stages of development, is entitled to human rights,

Starting point is 00:06:08 the foremost being the right to life, the right to not be murdered, mistreated, abused. And we don't then have that same mentality, though, when it comes to embryos, when it comes to these unimplanted human beings that are still made in the image of God. And yet, through IVF are very often left in a freezer sometimes indefinitely, very often they are discarded because the parents have decided they've had all the kids that they want or sometimes there's a divorce. And so the parents don't want the embryos that they have extracted and created and frozen. or sometimes, actually very often, I would say in the vast majority of the cases of IVF, there is a eugenics process that goes into it. The scientists, the doctors can test these embryos to see if they have any kind of genetic disorder or some kind of special need. Of course, they can test whether the embryo is a boy or a girl.

Starting point is 00:07:16 and then parents can make the decision based on those findings, which embryos they want to kill, discard, which embryos they want to implant, or which embryos they want to surrender, which embryos they want to pay to stay in a freezer for years and years. And my basic take is that that's no way to treat a child. Like that's no way to treat a human being. If we believe as Christian pro-lifers that these humans are made in the image of God,

Starting point is 00:07:46 and therefore they have dignity, they have innate worth, and therefore they are entitled to human rights, then we shouldn't be treating these little human beings like this. Just because an adult wants to be a parent, just because they may have gone through a very difficult fertility and pregnancy process, which we can have a lot of compassion for, these things don't justify treating human beings like this. And I understand there are different methods, well, not really different methods of IVF, but there are different scenarios. There are some scenarios in which the parents implant all the embryos that have been created. And of course, I think that is a much, much better and more ethical option than creating a ton of embryos, which is what most people do.

Starting point is 00:08:38 Like Paris Hilton, I think, has, she said, like has 20 embryos on ice. she's obviously not going to implant all of those embryos. So I think it's much better to only create as many embryos as you are willing to implant and have. But the implantation process is very risky for the embryo as well. I mean, there are many cases when, unfortunately, the embryo thaws before it has been implanted. And so the embryo dies. And so even in those cases, we are asking these little human beings, to take a big risk in that implantation and freezing and implantation process to satisfy our own

Starting point is 00:09:23 wants as adults. And I think that is simply disordered. And I do think it's unethical. That doesn't mean that your children created through IVF don't have value and dignity. Of course, they do. They're made in the image of God. And I know you love them so much. And they're precious children, of course. But that does not mean the IVF process is something. that we should advocate for or support as Christians. So that's basically where I stand, just to give a summary of my stance on IVF. And so, as you can probably imagine,

Starting point is 00:09:57 I support the reasoning in this Alabama Supreme Court ruling that said these unimplanted embryos qualify as human children. And so they have rights like human children. So we'll get into exactly what the rule. what that means in just a second. Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political.

Starting point is 00:10:25 They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort. We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clear.

Starting point is 00:10:46 over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this T-Day Show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us. All right. This summary of this ruling is via World Magazine and also the Alabama Reflector. So the Alabama case emerged from an incident in 2020, which embryos from three couples were apparently destroyed when an unauthorized person gain access to the embryos stored by the center for reproductive medicine and Mobile, Alabama. That's another thing here is that like as your children are in this freezer, in this lab,

Starting point is 00:11:34 they are being supervised by people who don't know or love them. And very often they care for them just fine. But sometimes they don't. And this is this accident or this mistreatment of this. these embryos is not unique. This actually happens, unfortunately, across the country. So this person caused the embryos produced by the three couples to be destroyed. The couples filed a lawsuit, and a lower court found that Alabama's wrongful death of a minor act didn't apply to a human embryo located outside of a mother's womb. But the couples obviously devastated by this, they appeal

Starting point is 00:12:15 to the state Supreme Court. And just days ago, that court handed down a decisive eight to one ruling, wow, declaring that unborn children are children without exception based on developmental stage, physical location, or any other ancillary characteristics. Now, this is obviously true. It's scientifically true. It's also logically true. If you're saying that a baby inside the womb or a baby outside of the womb, an embryo, we know that it's a human being. Scientifically, it's a human being. It can't be anything else. If it's not a human, what is it? It's a human being. It's alive, obviously, because you can kill him or her. You wouldn't be able to kill him or her if this embryo wasn't alive. So we know that it is a living human. And if you say for some reason that that

Starting point is 00:13:05 living human does not deserve right to have to give a reason why, is it because of location in or outside of the mother's womb? Is it because of size? Is it because of a, is it because of age? Is it because of stage of development? Is it because of sentience? Okay, well, you can apply any of those factors to people outside of the womb and tell me, do any of those factors justify killing a person? Like a toddler is smaller and less developed than a teenager is. Does that toddler have fewer rights than the teenager because of those things? So you get the logic here. The Alabama Supreme Court is just carrying that sound logic into a case about embryos. In a majority opinion, Justice J. Mitchell wrote that there was no exception

Starting point is 00:13:53 for frozen embryos under an 1872 law allowing civil lawsuits for the wrongful death of children or under a 2018 state constitutional amendment that required the state to, quote, ensure the protection of the rights of the unborn child. The upshot here is that the phrase minor child means the same thing in the wrongful death of a minor act as it does in everyday life, in everyday language. An unborn or recently born individual member of the human species from fertilization until the age of majority. Nothing about this act narrows that definition to unborn children who are physically in utero. Instead, the act provides a cause of action for the death of any minor child without exception or limitation.

Starting point is 00:14:43 You know, I see sometimes people say, well, babies inside the womb aren't children or embryos aren't children. It's an embryo. It's a zygote. It's a fetus. Look, these are all just different words for a stage of development in a child's life. It's like using infant or newborn instead of baby. Like, they're both accurate.

Starting point is 00:15:04 They're just different words for the same thing. A baby at nine months is a baby, but a baby, at zero months, at, you know, five days is both a newborn and a baby. So yes, a baby inside the womb, an embryo is still a child, is still a baby. It's just a baby or a child at the earliest stage of development. Chief Justice Tom Parker, concurring with the opinion, wrote that even before birth, all human beings bear the image of God and their lives cannot be destroyed without effacing

Starting point is 00:15:33 his glory, which he argued with set in policy when Alabama voters approved the 2018 amendment. And I know I can hear the screeches now separation of church and state. Well, this has nothing to do with the separation of church and state. If you understand where the principle, where the idea of separation of church and state came from, it really was more about protecting the church from the predation of the state than the other way around. And yes, we cannot, the state cannot establish a religion, but that does not, separate the separation of church and state does not separate God in law you cannot separate God in law really now atheists and people of different beliefs may disagree with that but that's

Starting point is 00:16:22 just true you can't separate God in law because you can't separate God immorality and you can't separate morality from law every law is legislating morality in some way and morality has to come from one source of truth or else it's not morality and one source of truth has to from a supreme being that transcends all earthly authority. And that is God. That is the creator. That is why in the Declaration of Independence, we were endowed by our creator with certain inalienable rights. The Constitution, the American concept of rights is based on biblical principles. That's not a theocracy where people are all forced to be a Christian or are all forced to say the same things about God. You have to, again, you have to base your morality, your laws on something.

Starting point is 00:17:16 And we base ours. Of course, there's a long history there of where the Constitution comes from, going back to the Magna Carta, but really going back further than that, all the way to the law giving to Israel. These principles, you have a right to property, for example. We see that in the Ten Commandments. Thou shall not steal, thou shall not covet. A right. not to be murdered. These are all based on the Christian gods commands to do certain things and against other things. And the founders would have acknowledged that. And the founders of the states would have acknowledged that too. The founders of our country did not separate God and law, even as they did try to make distinctions. And I think rightfully so, between certain churches

Starting point is 00:18:06 and the state, again, mostly for the protection of the church, but also protecting people against the establishment of a particular national church. And obviously the history that the founders were fleeing from informed their desire to make sure that that separation was there in the beginning. And it still is. But again, you cannot separate God, the giver of all truth, and the arbiter of morality, from our law giving. And I think the Alabama Supreme Court understands that. So I have no problem with him citing God and citing the Bible. Here are a few highlights from Chief Justice Tom Parker's majority opinion. From page 37 to 38, in summary, the theologically based view of the sanctity of life adopted by the people about

Starting point is 00:19:02 Alabama encompasses the following one. God made every person in his image. Two, each person therefore has a value that far exceeds the ability of human beings to calculate. And three, human life cannot be wrongfully destroyed without incurring the wrath of a holy God who views the destruction of his image as an affront to himself. Okay, I love this. I love this. So good job. Chief Justice, Tom Parker. And I know people are going to say, oh my gosh, this is Christian nationalism as if you're even able to define that. But he's absolutely right. And I know a lot of people, I think even pro-lifers will have a hard time with this because they'll say, well, you should try to just argue things from a secular perspective.

Starting point is 00:19:46 You should try to argue things just scientifically. But it doesn't really work like that. Like we can try to do that. But at the end of the day, we do believe that it's wrong to kill a person because they're made in the image of God. someone who is godless might say something is wrong just because it's wrong, but they don't really have a good basis for it. We believe something is wrong because it is biblically wrong. We believe that the authority over all things tells us it's wrong, and he has the ability to do that because he created us. So really, all arguments for the sanctity of life fall short if you're only using science and logic.

Starting point is 00:20:31 that doesn't tell you why a human life is valuable. Really only God can do that. So again, I completely support this reasoning. So here's what the ruling says, specifically on the impact to the IVF industry. Although it is for the legislature, so the Alabama state legislature, to decide how to address this issue,

Starting point is 00:20:53 I note briefly that many other westernized countries have adopted IVF practices or regulations that allow IVF to continue while drastically reducing the chances of embryos being killed. And that's true. Like even the most progressive nations like Canada and many countries in Europe have way stricter laws when it comes to reproductive technology than America does. America is truly the wild, wild west when it comes to reproductive technology.

Starting point is 00:21:21 And I don't mean that in a good way. Obviously, I mean that in a very immoral, unethical, and frightening way. It's also extremely liberal when it comes to. abortion compared to a lot of European countries. People just don't seem to understand that. The ruling goes on to say for decades, IVF has been largely unregulated in the United States with some commentators even comparing it to the Wild West. Oh, I didn't even see that until I said that. If the legislature, is that me? Are you talking about me? Because I've said that a lot. If the legislature agrees that it is time to regulate the IVF industry, then the good news is it need not reinvent the wheel.

Starting point is 00:22:05 Other westernized countries have given Alabama some examples to consider like Australia and New Zealand dictate that physicians only make one embryo at a time. Wow, that is way more conservative than what's here in the United States. The European Union countries set a legal limit on the number of embryos transferred in a single cycle. And this is not only to protect the embryos, by the way, it's also because it can be very deleterious to the health of a woman. We've talked about before with Jennifer Law, how there are some doctors are starting to look at the correlation, the causal relationship between what goes on in IVF and egg retrieval and cancer.

Starting point is 00:22:49 I mean, it can't be good to pump your body with all of those artificial hormones. There are going to be consequences to things like that. And so that's another thing to consider. Is this good for a woman's body? In addition to is this right to treat a child this way? Italy banned cryopreservation of embryos except in the case of a health risk or a major event preventing the embryo from being immediately transferred. So that means that means that the freezing the freezing the embryo. Therefore, although certain changes to the IVF industry's current creation and handling of embryos in Alabama will result from this decision to the extent that dissenting Justice Cook is predicting that IVF will now end in Alabama, that prediction does not seem to be well founded. Well, I think that it's kind of telling that so many people are saying the IVF is going

Starting point is 00:23:50 to end in Alabama because of a ruling that says the embryo, are human children. So are you saying that IVF is mistreating human children? Because again, I think that that kind of shows us what we all already know about IVF and the IVF process. And it's also showing an unwillingness by the reproductive industry to take any steps toward the well-being of these children that they are creating. I think this is a step in the right direction. Like I would see it as a huge win if we got to the point in IVF where you are only creating one embryo at a time. And you are doing everything you can to transfer to implant that embryo as quickly as possible.

Starting point is 00:24:40 As it stands right now, we have over a million, probably millions of frozen embryos. And a lot of times parents just pay the fee every month because they use. don't want to give their embryos up for adoption. I understand that. I mean, those are your children. Those babies are going to look like you. And you don't know who they're going to be raised by. But they can't bear to let their children thaw out and die. And so even the most ardent defenders of IVF, like understand that there are a lot of ethical issues and questions. And I get this question a lot. Like, what should I do? You realize, like, you're thankful for the kids that you have now through IVF, but you've got these embryos on ice. You don't want to just keep paying for them to be frozen.

Starting point is 00:25:29 You don't want to discard them. You don't want to adopt them out to someone else. And look, that's a very, very difficult decision. And I do have compassion for you that you realize now that maybe you shouldn't have gone through that process and now you're in this ethical quandary. And I'm not sure exactly what the right decision is. Probably. adoption. And if there's any way that you can find a Christian couple to adopt your babies, I think that's the right thing to do. I think that that is probably the most selfless option. I don't think it's right just to keep paying the fee to allow babies to be frozen. I don't think it's right to discard them. Some people disagree with me on that. But again, they're babies. But

Starting point is 00:26:19 like this, these are the things that we have to think about. And by the way, the church needs to be helping people think about this. I understand that this is controversial. And so many pastors unfortunately think that they shouldn't wait into controversial topics. Look, you shouldn't be leaving it to podcasters to wait into these issues, pastor. You shouldn't be leaving it to TikTokers and influencers to talk about the hard things. Like if you want to shepherd your flock and you want to make sure that they truly have a biblical worldview, especially when it comes to protecting vulnerable life, which the church is supposed to be a champion of,

Starting point is 00:26:54 then you need to wade into the very difficult and controversial issues. If we believe that these are all little image bearers, then Christians have an obligation to stand up for them. So I say good job, Alabama. Obviously, Washington Post is not happy about this. None of the liberal outlets are going to be happy about this. I do want to talk about a little bit what Albert Mueller said about this in his podcast episode in just a second. Okay, so Dr. Mueller, whom we've had on this podcast

Starting point is 00:27:40 a couple times, he's someone that I certainly look to for a lot of answers when it comes to complicated, complex issues. He said the hard thing is that many who consider themselves to be pro-life have refused to extend their own logic to the huge moral crisis posed by IVF procedures. That's exactly what I said. And I hadn't even read this yet. Dr. Mueller, you and I, Same page. The blunt and unavoidable question is this. Do pro-lifers really believe that unborn children are children? If not, we have been lying. If we really do believe this, how do we reckon with millions of frozen children locked in an indefinite freeze and destined for destruction due to IVF? Procedures, exactly same page. And you know what? I do just want to say someone that has helped me

Starting point is 00:28:24 think through this. And maybe Dr. Mueller, too, because I know they've had conversations. Katie Faust is an excellent voice on this, an excellent resource. is Jennifer Loll, both of these women I've had on my podcast, and they have been very helpful for me and helping me develop my stance on these things and also just igniting a passion in me about these things. The court's reasoning, Dr. Mueller says, is unassailable. A human embryo is a human being. Wherever that embryo may be found, if that is not true, the pro-life movement has been lying. If it is true, then evangelicals have better make certain our affirmation of human dignity, the sanctity of human life is clear. All unborn children are children. Yes, and amen. I do just

Starting point is 00:29:00 appreciate so much Dr. Mueller's ability to succinctly and biblically give us good analysis and answers about these very controversial topics. Now, you can imagine the pro-abortion industry is very angry about this. The skim, now the skim used to be pretty neutral. Brie, I don't know if you used to look at, I know, I surprised you. I didn't tell you I was going to be talking to you. I don't know if you used to read the skim. Actually, in college, in my PR classes, they would recommend it to us. And all of us would read it like every single day.

Starting point is 00:29:42 It was like the news briefing of the day. Yes. Yes, it was fun. It was fun. My first year of real work outside of college, I remember reading the skim every morning. Yeah. And I loved it. And now maybe I just didn't notice the bias at the time because I was less aware, but it was probably also more neutral that it is now.

Starting point is 00:30:04 Yeah. No, I think it definitely was more neutral back then. Yes. And I even like reached out to them one time seeing if they were hiring at all. Me too. Oh, you did? We could have met there together in another life. Okay, but now they're not. Like I see a lot of things by them that show me that they are progressive, which of course is not. And they posted this Instagram post about the Alabama ruling and posted a series of tweets from someone who is pro-abortion about this. And so this person said, so Alabama women can now claim frozen embryos on their taxes, right? Someone else said, what is the logical extension of this? Are individuals with frozen embryos mandated to implant every single one of them or face murder charges? How does any of this work? You know, this is something that progressives do a lot.

Starting point is 00:30:54 They ask these questions and they act as if the existence of these questions makes a ruling like Alabama's absurd. Well, why don't we just think through these questions then? These are good questions to ask. And it is worth thinking through them. Just because there are unanswered questions or questions that progressives don't want to answer doesn't mean a ruling like this is ridiculous. Actually, that's basically what the ruling said when it comes to IVF that we need to do a better job of thinking through this. We need to weigh the right and the dignity of babies when we are looking at reproductive technology. Yes, it has been, it is the Wild Wild West when it comes to reproductive technology

Starting point is 00:31:35 in America. And that is to our shame. Other countries have thought through it. Other countries that progressives here say are so superior to America because they're far more progressive in some ways. Well, they're a lot more careful and conscientious about this than America is. So why is it so difficult for us to ask some of these questions and actually work on answering them. Someone else that the skin posted said, according to the Alabama Supreme Court, a shelf full of frozen embryos is legally a daycare center. Okay. Is that so crazy? Yeah, these are humans. Like, try to wrap your mind around this. Another post said, this will severely restrict, if not end, access to IVF in Alabama. This affects couples with infertility, same-sex couples,

Starting point is 00:32:22 and single people trying to become pregnant. Well, yeah. Those with genetic abnormalities who use IVF to optimize chances of having a healthy baby. Eugenics. Eugenics. All of these things. All of these justifications for IVF, they are simply putting the desires of adults over the well-being and the needs of children.

Starting point is 00:32:48 And that's what, like, progressivism does when it comes to anything, but particularly, when it comes to abortion and reproductive technology. The Alabama decision is that, I will not say this, bad word, bat feces, they say, for many reasons. And among them, IVF transfers fail approximately half the time. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. That's why a part of the reason why IVF is unethical. you are saying here a little embryo, little human being, take this extremely dangerous track into the uterus to be implanted. You very likely may die, but that's okay because we have all of these other embryos.

Starting point is 00:33:34 Again, placing a burden on children that shouldn't be placed on them just to fulfill the wants of a parent. 50% of transferred embryos do not implant or they miscarry. Who are they fixing to start charging with murder? Again, interesting ethical questions here. I look forward to all women being able to get life insurance for their baby starting the moment they get a positive pregnancy test in Alabama. Okay, if we do that, will you be pro-life? If we go there, which, like, I'm willing to do that, I'm willing to say, sure. That's fine.

Starting point is 00:34:10 We can make sure that a woman who is pregnant gets all of the benefits of a woman who has a child. outside of the womb. If we do that, will you be pro-life? If we do that, will you be against abortion? If we do that, will you be for protecting the dignity of these embryos on ice? Probably not, right? And if not, then why are you even bringing this up? Of course, these are all fallacious points that the skim doesn't feel like thinking through. And I guess that's why it's called the skim. They're not really encouraging people to think. They're encouraging people to just skim and not to delve deep into their brains and actually give careful consideration to very complex topics. And so again, I am in support of this and I'm happy about it. I hope the other states follow suit.

Starting point is 00:35:08 Humans are human and they deserve human rights. I know radical take, but that means even the smallest humans, even the most dependent humans. That is literally, by the way, the Christian ethic. The Christian ethic is that the vulnerable and the helpless and the powerless and the voiceless, the weakest among us deserve our utmost help and our utmost compassion. Of course, in this godless and depraved age that we are in, we have flipped that around to say that we should sacrifice the weak and the young in service to the satisfaction of the desires of adults. And yes, even a good desire to be a parent does not justify treating a child the way the IVF treats them. I know.

Starting point is 00:36:04 Hot take. Fannie Willis. Do you even know, do you all even know who Fannie Willis is? Because I have been like very lightly, distantly following this story. And so I have just now kind of caught up on what's really going on here. And it's so funny, but it's really sad because we live in a cacistocracy. A cacostocracy is when you are run by idiots. And that is what our country is.

Starting point is 00:36:46 And this is a great example of that. So this summary is from the Daily Wire. Willis is the first female district attorney for Fulton County, Georgia. I remember Fulton County during the election in 2020 when they had like a bathroom leak or something and so went when they couldn't count all of the votes that night. Absolutely ridiculous. Fulton County, as many counties in Atlanta, of course, is extremely liberal. It's always the liberal counties that can't seem to count the votes. It's crazy.

Starting point is 00:37:15 So she came to fame when she launched an investigation against former President Donald Trump along with 18 others for attempting to overturn the election results in the state. Willis was raised primarily by her father, which is interesting to note, a criminal defense lawyer and member of the Black Panthers, the radical political party that championed black civil rights. And he actually comes into this story at some point. So on August 14th, 2023, a Fulton County grand jury voted to charge Trump and others with the alleged crimes. But the case is now in jeopardy because it was recently revealed that she had an affair, that Fannie Willis had an affair, with Nathan Wade, the lead prosecutor that she hired for the case. He's also a married man. One of Trump's co-defendants has asked a judge to dismiss her from the case due to the allegations that she misused taxpayer dollars and showed favoritism to Wade, of course. It was alleged that the two took luxury trips together, paid for with money Mr. Wade earned from his work on the probe.

Starting point is 00:38:18 Oh my gosh. What a tingled web we weave. Wade was also, he was also married at the time. Some of the financial evidence came to light as a result of his divorce documentation. Wow. On February 15th, the hearing to disqualify the prosecutors and dismissed the case over the alleged misconduct began. So far, witnesses have testified that Willis and Wade were romantically involved from 2019 to 2022 before Willis hired him for the Trump case. Trump attorneys accused Willis and Wade of having an improper relationship that led them to profit off the prosecution at the expense of taxpayers. Fannie Willis was not happy when she was asked in court about her relationship with Wade. Here is SOT 1.

Starting point is 00:39:07 Give me the time period. Mr. Wade visits you at the place you laid your head. When? Has he ever visited you at the place you laid your head? So let's be clear because you lied in this. Let me tell you which one you lied in. Right here. if you lied right here. No, no, no, no. This is the truth. Judge. It is a lie. It is a lot. Ms. Willis. Mr. Sera, thank you. We're going to take five minutes. Do that in five. Okay, so that kind of typified her behavior while she was being questioned. There's also been some really funny, funny moments. At one point, she asks whether she has traveled with Nathan Wade,

Starting point is 00:39:44 and she says, where's Belize? What continent? I'm not being funny. I don't know. I've been to Belize with him. I've been to the Bahamas with him. I've been to Aruba with him. Don't embarrass me. I'm not sure what continents those are on. Okay. So that's what we're working with here. That's Fannie Willis. And she actually admitted to campaign finance fraud in the midst of all of this. Here is sought to. So my question was, where did that cash originally come from? If it didn't come out of the bank. Cash is fungible. I think that cash for years in my house. So for me to tell you the source of when it comes from when you go to public and you buy something you get $50 you throw it in there. It's been my whole life. When I took out a large amount of money on my first campaign, I kept

Starting point is 00:40:29 some of the cash of that. Like, okay. She's talking about like why she gave Nathan Wade large payments of cash, which again is believed to be Fulton County taxpayer money. So not a good lady, obviously very corrupt here. And she probably just pursued this Trump. prosecution for fame. And her dad actually came to her defense in this case and this questioning too. And obviously any dad is going to come to the defense of his daughter. But it's interesting to see that he is still apparently involved in her political life. To what extent, I'm not sure. But for all of this, for having an affair with a married man and then having that married man play a role in this case against Donald Trump that she is using for fame and then

Starting point is 00:41:24 misusing taxpayer dollars in the midst of all of that. She is being hailed as a hero in some Georgia churches. So we've created just kind of like a short montage of several pastors at churches in Georgia saying, wow, Fannie Willis, she is doing God's work. So here's that. Fannie Williams had redeemed herself all because she stood up for herself. She was in trouble, but I got her speaking suspicion and a holy hunch. She was not in that courtroom by herself because the holy ghost used that black girl magic and let her do her thing.

Starting point is 00:42:05 Some of your black folks, when you see us being lynch, you think it's some legitimacy to you. You think we've done something because you're chasing the fan. You know, that thing was racist because they were trying to act like black women can't have cash on them. This is our Black History Achievement Award presented to Fulton County District Attorney Fon Willis. In appreciation for outstanding service rendered to our church and to our community. We ask Lord that you'll open up the windows of heaven and pour out a blessing that is so mighty and so bold and so brave and so precise

Starting point is 00:42:49 that she could not help but to say my help cometh from the Lord. The scripture they keep sending me is no weapon formed against you shall prosper. I need y'all to hear me though. They did not say the weapons will not form. And that's the part I didn't hear until recently. Womp, womp, I mean really,

Starting point is 00:43:19 Oh my goodness. Here are some other quotes from some of these, from some of these sermons. I don't care. This is Dr. Mark M. Whitaker. Okay, he's actually in Virginia. So this is about, this is about her. And the message is called the gospel of Fannie Willis.

Starting point is 00:43:45 So I originally thought that all these churches were in Georgia. Obviously the ones where she was attending. They were in Georgia, but some of these churches are predominantly black churches from across the country. So the gospel of Fannie Willis, he says, I don't care how pretty you look, how made up you are, how degreed you are, how high up you think you are, you're still a Negro in America. It ain't about Fannie. The lynching wasn't about the person hanging from the lynching tree. They were racist because they were trying to act.

Starting point is 00:44:11 I think you heard this. Act like black women couldn't have cash on them. I mean, I seen y'all. I seen y'all reaching your brain. bra. Okay. Okay. All right. Here's another one from Christ Second Baptist Church in Long Beach, California. Christ second. She ain't an angry black woman. Her only problem is that she's a black woman in America. This is absolutely absurd. But unfortunately, very common. My friend Darrell Harrison talks about this a lot, just the danger of black liberation, theology. And the legacy of James Cohn just carried down in these churches that, I mean, gosh, there's just so much to say. There is worship of skin color. There is idolatry of power. There is the absolute unwillingness in these churches to be impartial, to see things truthfully, to see things justly. And instead, they have completely imbibed and then regurgitate this idea that if you have brown or black skin and you are accused of something or condemned of something in America, that is a form of unfair oppression that is just the manifestation of the unbroken thread of the legacy of slavery.

Starting point is 00:45:41 And it impedes their wisdom and their discernment and their ability. to simply see things as they are. This is unbiblical, idolatrous, blasphemous nonsense. And just a reminder, just to note that anyone who believes in the gospel of Fannie Willis is going to hell. Anyone who believes any other gospel than the gospel of Jesus Christ. But this gospel of Fannie Willis is nothing more than the idolatry of skin color and power. This is black liberation theology. When you start with this erroneous idea that all white people

Starting point is 00:46:24 are oppressors and all black and brown people are oppressed. And that is the lens through which you see every conflict, every controversy, in just the world in general, politics, you are always going to come to very wrong, theologically wrong and just logically wrong conclusions. And so it's very dangerous. And you know what's interesting. You know what's interesting is that there's so much talk. People are selling so many books and so many silly little documentaries about the danger of Christian nationalism among white evangelicals and white Trump supporters. And they're basically accusing Christians of using the Bible and using the pulpit to vie for political power. And they view every piece of Republican legislation and every conservative Supreme Court ruling as evidence of that.

Starting point is 00:47:22 And yet these same people have nothing to say about what is routinely said from these so-called black churches, which are in general and largely much more explicitly political and much more, right? vie for political power than these so-called MAGA churches. And I'm saying in both cases, by the way, in both cases when you try to read into scripture for the purpose of your politics, that that can be dangerous and wrong on both sides of the aisle. But what I'm trying to say is that is much rarer when it comes to so-called white evangelical churches than it is in the traditionally black church. I mean, anyone who attends these churches can tell you that when election season comes around, very often the Democrat politicians, they have a place in the pulpit to be able to campaign. No one has a problem with that. That's not scary Christian nationalism, apparently, even though Democrats are the ones who are trying to and do accumulate as much power as possible to ram through their agendas at the expense of the most vulnerable. like the poor in this country.

Starting point is 00:48:42 That's all fine, though. That's all fine because they vote Democrat. The real problem that these self-righteous activists have with so-called Christian nationalism is simply the fact that it's leading people or there is simply the fact that anyone is voting a Republican and using the Bible to justify their vote and their support of certain issues and certain candidates. That's their real problem. They don't care if Kamala Harris or any of these pastors use the Bible or use their Christianity to justify and defend their positions.

Starting point is 00:49:20 It's only wrong when Christian conservatives do it. And unfortunately, a lot of Christian conservatives believe that. Really, what you'll see at a lot of Christian conservative churches is a whole lot of apathy, a whole lot of what I don't want to wait into that. I don't want to think about that. I don't want to worry about that. I don't want to vote that way. I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings.

Starting point is 00:49:39 That's the much bigger problem in the predominantly white evangelical church is apathy about these very important cultural and political and moral issues than too much activism or advocacy. I don't have any problem with predominantly black churches caring about politics, caring about policies. I think that's very important. But let's, we all must start with a place of exegesis, pulling the meaning out of scripture that is actually there, not reading our ideas into scripture, misusing and abusing scripture to lionize this woman who broke up a marriage because of, because of her sexual immorality, and then used her position of power to exploit the taxpayers in Georgia.

Starting point is 00:50:35 for that, she gets a black history, black excellence award from a church. For that, a pastor says the Holy Spirit was with her in the courtroom using black girl magic to protect her. That is just such utter sacrilege and such blasphemy. It is absolutely ridiculous. Like, I just want to remind you that no matter what your skin color is, no matter what happened with your ancestors, like pride and arrogance and blasphemy. and theological error, like those are still egregious to God.

Starting point is 00:51:11 Like, we are all going to be held account. Like, you don't get to use phrases like black excellence or black girl magic to justify sin just because of your malady count. Like, God is not going to judge you differently or softer or more gently because you have imbibed a narrative that all black and brown people are oppressed and all white people carry just a little more guilt because of maybe possibly what one generation of our ancestors might have done in American history. That's not the way God works. That's not biblical justice. Biblical justice is truthful, proportionate, direct, and impartial.

Starting point is 00:51:54 Those are the four characteristics that you will see when you read about God's law giving to Israel. And this is unjust. and it's corrupt. And if people believe in this gospel, just as if they believe in any false gospel, whether the church is white or black or Asian, brown, Hispanic, it doesn't matter. It leads to hell.

Starting point is 00:52:12 And that's why it actually matters. Oh, man. Oh, man, oh man. Craziness. We got a lot of theological problems in the United States and all different kinds of churches. Okay, we didn't even get to get to all of the things that I wanted to talk about today.

Starting point is 00:52:27 I wanted to talk about the whole, the NHS, in the UK talking about the nutritious value of men who pretend to be women and their so-called breast milk. I talked about it on Instagram, though, so you can go see my commentary there and on X. There was another case like this recently. The self-described super mayor, this is according to the New York Post, of a small Illinois town, has hit back at those who criticized her for almost a $300,000 salary, and brazen use of public funds on flights, steakhouses, and, billboards while her village faces a deficit. Democrat Tiffany Hingered elected as mayor of

Starting point is 00:53:20 Dalton in 2021, claimed at a public meeting on Monday that her critics are simply upset because she is a black woman in power. So here's what she said. You should all be ashamed of yourselves because you all are black. You all are black. And you all are sitting up here, beating and attacking a black woman that's in power. You all forget that I'm the leader. You ain't learned that yet. And so just as a reminder, she went to Atlanta and all of her advisors stayed at the Four Seasons Hotel on the taxpayer dime, spent almost $10,000 there. They flew to New York. The group stayed at the Marriott Marquis in Times Square, where the hotel charged them $13,000. Other charges showed the township, where the median annual salary of residence is $24,000.

Starting point is 00:54:07 to the median annual salary of residents racked up more than $23,000 in restaurant charges across the state from July to November. So, of course, she is corrupt. This is a misuse of taxpayer funds, but she says that anyone, anyone who is upset at her, of course, is just racist because she is a black woman in power.

Starting point is 00:54:30 This is the mentality. It also reminds me of earlier this month when the New York City Mayor Eric Adams, he said, have you seen how much chocolate is leaving the city of New York? This is why they hating on me. Okay. No, they're hating on you because you're doing a bad job. They're hating on you, mayor of the small Illinois town, because you're corrupt. They're hating on you, Fannie Willis, because you had an affair and then appointed the man that you had an affair with to go after Donald Trump.

Starting point is 00:55:01 and I will say what I have said several times in the past, as long as racism is seen as a valid excuse for corruption and incompetence, then leaders like this will continue to be rewarded for doing a bad job. I will repeat, as long as racism is seen as a valid excuse for corruption and incompetence, then leaders like this will continue to be rewarded for doing a bad job. It's a lack of accountability. It's a lack of responsibility. And it just enables more of this kind of behavior.

Starting point is 00:55:39 It's very sad. It's very sad. And of course, people of all kinds are susceptible to this kind of thinking, whether it's, you think that they're just hating on you because you're a woman. They think that they're just hating on you because of some form of your identity or something in your past or just because you're a Democrat or Republican. Maybe it's true. I'm not saying that it's wrong in all cases. but if there are valid reasons for you to be criticized, then maybe go with that.

Starting point is 00:56:07 And again, like, you don't deserve to be held to a lower standard just because of the color of your skin. I'm sorry. You don't. Now, that is how our country functions, unfortunately for everyone no matter what your skin color is. But you shouldn't be. You shouldn't be. That really keeps people down. And it's very unfortunate for all of your constituents who have to suffer under you.

Starting point is 00:56:28 And yet, they will be elected. again, they will go to all of their local churches and stand in the pulpit and say, the only reason anyone has ever criticized me is because I'm black and God is with me. And to quote, the Holy Spirit will be using black girl magic to get me elected again. I'm just quoting. I'm just quoting. It's crazy out there, y'all. It's crazy. A lot of controversial stuff said in this episode today. More than usual, I think. All right, we'll be back tomorrow with more controversial stuff. See you guys then. Hey, this is Steve Day.

Starting point is 00:57:12 If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort. We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this D-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 955 | The End of IVF in Alabama?

There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click on any sentence in the transcript to leave a comment.