Reply All - #129 Autumn

Episode Date: October 25, 2018

A 13-year-old girl builds a tiny world that she has complete, perfect control over. And then one day, that world forces her to make an impossible decision. Episodes of The Nod you should check out:Cowboy of the West Village Peak Reality The Paradise Garage Knuck if you Buck Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

From Gimlet, this is Reply All. I'm PJ Vote. And I'm Alex Goldman. And today we have Wallace Mack in the studio. What's up, y'all? Hey, Mac. You have a story for us today. I do, I do. So you want to talk about it? Yeah, let me tell you about it real quick. So a couple months ago, I was doing this thing where I got really fascinated by this idea of finding black utopias, like utopias for black people. And so I started searching. My first thought was to look back in history, so like maybe, something like a black Wall Street, but not quite a utopia. And then I was like, all right, physical places that exist now, maybe like a cult or

an independent city. And in the research, I just didn't see it. Like, I even tried looking online. I couldn't really find anything. But what I did find was this woman who tries to build this sort of utopia for herself and ends up with a lot of power. It's like so much power that she has to make a decision. It's kind of crazy.

And that's what I want to know more about. The story you ended up finding is like, I have never heard a story like this before. It's really, I don't know, I really like it. Do you want to just take it away? Yeah, I got it. All right. So the story is about a woman named Autumn. She's 27 and she lives in L.A.

What do you do? Oh, I work as a special education. aid in a special day class. So I work primarily with third, fourth, and fifth graders with special needs. That sounds like a really, like, rewarding job. Yes, it really is. And so what makes you happy? Wow, that's a deep question. I mean, it can be as deep or lighthearted as you want it to be. What makes me happy is making other people happy. Like, that's the honest truth, I guess. So the story starts when Autumn's eight or nine And her mom drags her to this baby shower

Because you know Sometimes your mom drags you to stuff that you really don't want to be at And she's not alone Because there's this other girl there that doesn't want to be there either And the girl is like Hey like come to my room I have something I want to show you And so they go

And the girl like boots up this computer And there it is This tiny world that Autumn's never seen before. The Sims. And I watched her build a house and make these people and the people were talking and cooking and I was like, whoa, it's like a dollhouse on a computer. And so, like, what did you like about the game when you first saw it? What was intriguing about it to you?

I liked that you could control little tiny people. She was kind of cruel, I guess, with them, like drowning them on purpose. But I liked the thought of being able to make all these little tiny people and they all live their own individual tiny lives. Okay. And around the time that you first started playing the game, how much time would you say you spent playing? All the time. If I was not at school, I was playing. So you'd go to school. And then as soon as you... Come home. Yep. I got home. And the second I got home, the shoes were off, run upstairs, play the computer get yelled at, do my homework, and then turn right around and keep playing. Autumn told me that she would, for the most part, do anything to avoid life at home.

Because, like, her relationship with her mom was hard. My mom worked as a teacher, but she was for, like, upper grades. She was a teacher, so she worked with kids all day, and then she came home, and I guess coming home to a kid was a lot, too. So if she wasn't, I guess, disciplining. then she was off by herself and there was no other parent in the equation. But I know growing up I was really angry and resentful

that everyone else seemed to have at least one parent that loved them and I didn't. So Autumn spends a lot of time at home by herself and when she gets to school, things still feel like trash. When I went to school, it was in an area that was rough, right? like we would fight over like who could have the juice instead of having bagged milk and I was naively nice to the point where I was letting fifth graders kick me in the shins because they said it was a game and I would get bruises.

But there was one bright spot in her life, a person that loved her fiercely, her grandma. I would get out of school early and she would pick me up. I lived like right around the corner. I was blocked away from the school, but she would be. She refused to let me walk. Her grandma would do stuff for her, like take her at some museums, spend days with her at the library, and, like, cook her favorite foods. What did your grandma look like?

She was a chunky, let's say, five foot six, five foot six and a half woman. Lighter skin, she always kept her hair pressed. Every single day she'd put the pressing comb on the stove and press her hair. Even though that's not good for your hair, you don't press dirty hair. And she had an amazing smile. Like she had an episode, I guess. And then like one side of her face, like her mouth drooped. And she was really self-conscious about it.

But she would still smile and it was just the most beautiful smile in the world. And Autumn knew no matter how bad her day was, her grandma would still be happy to listen to her. Why do you think she, like, she cares so much? I have no idea. Like, my brain wanted to say because she was my grandmother, but it's like people aren't nice just because someone's family. I guess she just wanted to, like, let me have a really enriching and fulfilled life. Maybe, which is really good of her.

But that's all I can think of. So, Arnold's Grandma is just being kind to her. Like, she's showing us. somebody who really needs some love, some love. And that's kind of what Autumn did when it came to her Sims. Logically, I knew it was a game. But at the same time, I was so invested in these people. And in what they did, it was like, I can do this.

I can make them be happy. I can do something. I can change things. And it gave me a sense of power that I guess I didn't have otherwise. And so in Autumn Sims world, like, Her house would have white picket fences, grass that's just green and, like, manicured to hell, and a fridge full of food, and there's a dad there. And, like, it really takes a lot of work to do this shit. Like, I don't, I remember playing the Sims and not giving my Sims nearly this level of, like, attention to detail.

But at 13, Autumn's like a pro at this. And having this kind of generic, happy family is what she needs. Like, yeah, it's boring, but like inside this like house that she built for her Sims, there's a lot of love and support. And for a while, that's the perfect escape. But then something happens in Autumn's life that kind of changes everything. When autumn's 15, her grandma is diagnosed with lung cancer, and they put her on hospice care. She was, like, you know, deteriorating.

And we went to see her one more time, and then we left. And I remember a couple of days after I told my mom, I really felt like I needed to see her. And my mom said, no, we already said goodbye. We're not going back. And then one day, her mom comes home from work, and it's basically just like, hey, grandma died. today. It was just kind of really casual almost. It felt so dry how she told me. So this is like actually really traumatic for Autumn. Like in her mind now, she's forced to kind of conjure up this idea of her grandma dying in this hospital, sad and like alone. And to top it all off, her mom won't even really talk to her about it.

And at this point, all she really has is the Sims. That's like her thing, right? But now the Sims feels different. I kind of understand that, right? Like, have you ever just been doing something and suddenly forget why you're doing it? Like, it just kind of starts to feel dumb? Yeah. Autumn had no idea what she was doing with this Sims, like, kind of playing with this, like, fake-ass family.

So she dumps it. Like, fuck that. And she decides to replace it with the world that looks like her own before her grandma died. I was like, okay, well, I just want to make my house again. I want to make my actual real house I live in. I want to make my family and all that stuff. And so I was building. And then as I was building, and I made myself and I made my mom, it's like, well, I want my grandmother to be here.

Because I miss her. And I don't have anything to really remember her by because we don't have a lot of pictures of her really. either. So for me it was like, okay, well, let me have her back. I want her back. Let me make her be back. And what's the first step in making her?

Let me think. The first step was making sure that I got her face looking as close as possible. I, like, got rid of the hair. I made her bald so I could see what I was doing. But I made sure that, like, I took

a gross amount of time, like, shaping her eyes, her nose, her fate, like the best that I could remember. Got it. And then, like, what were some of the other steps that you went through after you got the face to a place that you felt comfortable with? I made sure to give her her pearl earrings. I gave her loves the outdoors. I gave her neat.

I gave her hot-headed. And what are these things that you're describing? I'm sorry. They're traits. So, like, they're things that are, like, part of your Sim's personality. So it's like, if they're neat, then they will reflexively want to, like, clean up messes that they see or they'll get freaked out if there's a mess. And I made her a natural cook. That's what it was.

Because she made some good food. What kind of things did she make? Oh, my God. She would make bacon, like, so much bacon. And, like, toast and eggs. And it was all really good. She made yams. She made, God, she made green.

She made, like, black-eyed peas. She made so many things. She made corn. She made so much. I can't list everything that she made. She made really good food. I love how excited did you get about the food that she made. That lets me know that it was actually really good.

Oh, her food was so good. Oh, my God. So Autumn is doing all this work to kind of make this Sim feel and behave as realistically as possible. But it gets to a point where it's like, what's the point? Because the defaults that she's working with is just, to be frank, just white as hell. You know, it's the same five hairstyles that white people think all black people have. And so she really wants to make this thing real, but it's not real enough.

But autumn being autumn, she's not going to settle until she gets it right. And then one day she finds this website. called the Black Simmer. I'm using a custom skin tone in my game, and this is the one right here. She also has a lot of the hair. Look at these earrings. Look like what?

Look at fuck. What is like, yo? The Black Simmer is basically a place where black people who love the Sims come together and, I don't know, essentially modify the game. Like they draw style, from their own lives, like things they would actually wear or, like, use. And then they upload it so other people can use it in the game.

If you can get it while you can, grab it, you guys. Like, I'm telling you, it's mad cute, so. Like, before the Black Simmer, like, there was no real custom content that I knew of that fit people that look like me, right? And my grandmother, like, it was just you deal with what you get, and if it doesn't fit, sucks. And then I found the Black Simmer. I'm like, wait a minute, that skin color is my grandmother's skin color, those glasses, are my grandmother's

glasses, that hair, they have church now, like people have made churches, like with actual church events, like the tin that's supposed to have butter cookies and it has sewing things instead, or the, like, big, I think it's country crock butter thing that has no butter, it has like leftovers from something else, like little touches like that, or like a clock, a clock that is apparently not sold anymore, but every single black household has had it before. Or like this pan, like little things that are so culturally poignant, these things I could take and put in my grandmother's house and put it in her life and put on her and make her feel more solidified. So it's not just this casual memory of maybe my grandmother's house and maybe my grandmother. It's my grandmother. It's my

grandmother's house. It's her memory that I can keep. And so Autumn needs to make one final tweak now. It's like this crazy tweak that you can only do in the Sims, but it's a tweak that makes sure that Autumn's grandma never gets any older. I turned off aging. Like I didn't want her to age. I left her B. And in my mind, I was thinking, okay, I can't actually have her back, but I can't play through her still existing here. I'm not ready to let go yet. So I'm going to have her here and she's going to be here until I'm ready.

Mm-hmm. So you have your grandma in the game now and now it's like not possible for her to get older. It's not possible for her to pass away. I can just have her. She's there for me. She's there. Every single day after school, Autumn is on a mission.

And that mission is to get home as fast as she can to hang out with her grandma. So she gets home, she probably flings that book bag off, and she's up the stairs to get into the Sims. And they're in the game. From the moment she logs in, the phone starts ringing. See, Autumn had programmed her grandma to be family-oriented, so her grandma called all the time. And so, like, she's watching her Sim on the phone with her grandma. She can see her Sim like smiling and like getting comfortable, sitting on the couch, kicking her legs up. You know, all the things you're doing when you're having a really good phone conversation.

And Autumn can't actually understand the conversation they're having because in the game, Sim speak a made-up language called Simlish. But for Autumn, it's like kind of therapeutic to be able to fill in the lines. And in her mind, she's imagining her grandma's asking things like, hey, how was your day? you know, how's it going? I miss you. And so who did you tell that, or did you tell anyone at all that you were recreating her in the game? I didn't tell. You didn't tell.

That was for me. It was specifically my thing for me. It was my, mine. Like that was one thing of her that was mine. I did not share with anyone. I didn't show anyone. It was for me. It was mine.

And like for a year, that felt good. good. Like, she could walk around in this Sims universe and just randomly run into her grandma in the park. Or she could, like, go visit her grandma at home where they could sit on this big wooden swing she had and just chill. Like, it's great. It's like perfect. It's like everything Autumn wants, right? Well, Autumn started to notice that after a while, she'd go into the game and it wasn't working as well as it used to. Like, it just, it didn't make her happy anymore. And she starts to realize the problem. She just created a world where her grandma could never die, which meant she can't grieve, which is like, what's the point? Like, this is already her reality. And so,

that's what leads her to her big decision. She decides to go back into the settings of the Sims, and she turns time back on. I turned aging back on, and it was absolutely miserable. Like, I felt awful because it was like you would see, like, the little, at 6 o'clock every day in the game, like the little age meter would move up a little bit. And it's like, well, we're that much closer to the end that upset me. Because in my mind, it's like I don't want to lose her again. Okay.

And so you turn aging on in the game. You're playing with her. and as you're continuing to play, you're looking at the meter, and it's ticking. Ticking, yeah. So do you change the way that you play now, that aging is turned on? Yeah. By that time, my Sim had grown up and had kids of her own, so then she was a great-grandfather. Excuse me.

And so I'd let, like, my kids go to her house, and I would go to visit her. It was like a big thing because now that I couldn't depend on just maybe seeing at her in the park like two or three SIM weeks from then. It's like every moment was precious. So like there was a thing that happened where my SIM had a toddler, right? And my grandmother was teaching my toddler how to walk. And so in the game you can like record, like they have home videos basically. but in games. You can record things that happen in the game

and then still play them while you're in game like on a TV, like a regular home video. I know those don't really exist too much anymore, but you know. And so I recorded my grandmother teaching my toddler to walk. And for me, that was wild. Because it's something that I know that I'll never have, but it was so wild to see it happening.

Like, I wish, you know, I wish that she could be around to see things like that or to, like, be around to see the birth of my first child, things like that. But I can't have that. So it was just, it was really good to be able to have it happen in a game, if anything. Why didn't you just decide to keep it off? You know, that would have been so much easier. Why did that realization make you feel like you had to, like, turn it on rather than just kind of continue to live in the fantasy.

I think that it was important for me to see that life can continue past someone so important passing on. Does that make sense? I know it's like really convoluted and weird, but that's not how life works. And I can't deny that that's not how life works. That's not healthy. Yeah.

Could you tell me about the night or the day that your grandmother passes in the same? Sims. It was hard. I signed in. Like I got in the game. Excuse me. And things were going pretty normally.

I couldn't see her life thing because I was playing as me. But I could see mine moving and it's like, okay, well, if my life is progressing, I know hers is too. And then eventually I got a notification in the top corner of my screen that said that her name, Grace, was going to pass soon. And if I had any business left to take care of it now, I was terrified because it's like I can't. It was that initial shock of I can't lose her again. I don't want to lose her.

I want to turn off aging. I'm not ready. I can't do this. I want to keep her. I don't want to lose her again. But I had to pause a game kind of walk away and think. It's like, well, this is life. this is what happens. And at least it's peaceful and you're getting a warning. So go ahead and keep

playing and just let what's going to happen happen. So, and pause the game. And I moved her sim out of her house into my house so I could keep an eye on her. She got to be really comfortable in her last in-game days. I let her go out and sit in the garden. We sat, we talked, and then I saw that it was the very end of her life thing, like it was at the very end. There was no time left. It was going to be that day. So I didn't let my Sim go to work. I didn't let the kids go to school.

No one went anywhere. Everyone stayed home with her right on time. She just kind of, like the camera like shot to hers. You have to see it. And she just laid down And she, like, it was kind of, it was really peaceful. Like, she just, she passed. Like, there's this big, fancy, luau-looking thing, like the Grim Reaper Cubs.

And they just, like, nod and acceptance that it's their time. And they go, and it left behind, because it was inside, it left behind, and earned. And all of my Sims start crying. They're all bawling. I'm crying. I'm sorry. No, it's fine, it's fine. Like, I couldn't stop crying, but it still felt better for me.

Like, as a person, it felt better to watch her pass in luxury, knowing that she lived a long, fulfilling life to be the things that she loved. And there was no suffering and no pain. It could be there for her. And what gave her, like, hugs and kisses. She wasn't by herself or she wasn't with some nurse that didn't really like get attached to her or anything like she was with family. Like I spent a long time like while I'm crying. This is my grieving process. I took the urn and put it outside to make sure it was a gravestone.

And I put like so many flowers and trees around her grave. In the weeks that come after this, Autumn keeps watching her Sims kind of process. And she's seeing, like, her two kids, they're, like, hugging and weeping and holding each other's faces and holding her. And she could log in and really see her family visiting her grandma's grave. Do you think you could have processed this grief that you had associated, like, with the passing of your grandma in the same way without the Sims? Heavens no. Not a chance. I would still be sitting and thinking to myself, my mom. grandmother is sitting in the living room in her house.

I know that's not true, but that's what I grasped to, to like, keep myself from melting, to like breaking down was no, she's not actually gone. She's just sitting on the couch in her house and she's just having a time and she doesn't have phone connection and that's why she hasn't called. That's all it is. It's been 10 years since the funeral. And in that time, a lot of the things in Autumn's life that made her need the Sims before, don't really exist anymore.

She's not in school, being bullied by kids. She doesn't live with her mom anymore. And in fact, she, like, has a job, and she has a partner. She has, like, actual power over her life. She still sometimes misses her grandma, and when she does, she can't really bring herself to visit the actual grave. Like, she knows it's going to be a mess, and it's possible she'll be the first person,

person to ever visit it. And to Autumn, that's not the right way to remember her grandma. So instead, she goes back to the game. And there in the backyard of the house, one of the first things you'll see is this big wooden swing. And it's the swing that Autumn and her grandma used to hang out on. Then exact opposite of the swing, you'll see this huge plot of grass, and it's just really nice white slab of marble that's just like hanging in the shadows of a huge maple tree. And every year around her grandma's birthday or special holidays, that's where you'll find autumn.

Crouch down, laying flowers at the head of her grandma's grave. Reporter Wallace Mack, a version of the story you just heard originally appeared on The Nod. If you like our show and you haven't checked out the Nod, you're cheating yourself out of a lot of free joy, and I think that's a very strange choice. We've talked about them on the show before, but the nod, they're also at Gimlet.

We love them. It's like our show, and that is sort of weird and hard to explain to people who aren't already listening, but I want to give it a shot. They cover black culture. Like, that's what they're interested in. And the show that they make, it's just like every week it is just something entirely different

and weird and fun and surprising. It's like they'll have a story like the one you just heard. But then the next episode, they have this one, peak reality, where it's just Eric, one of the hosts, making this extremely funny and weirdly, like, kind of persuasive argument that 2016 was the absolute high watermark for reality TV. And then you get an episode like they have one, Paradise Garage, where all the stories are set in this 1970s New York nightclub that was hidden in an old parking garage. They have a story called The Cowboy of the West Village, which is like, I literally do not want to say a thing about it because it's one of those things you just, you just don't know. just have to listen to. It's a complete surprise from the beginning to the end. Yeah, go check them out. They're on iTunes, the nod. Okay, well, more of our show after the break. Welcome back to the show. Alex. Yes. Can I tell you the same I've been thinking about? Sure. You remember when we did the call-in show or we took calls 48 hours? I mean, one of us did. Yeah, I was about to correct you. Yes, I remember that. Do you remember, so like the second night you actually did go to sleep and I stayed up? Yes. And there was this one phone call

ended up having with a guy, I think he was from New Zealand. And like by the time he called, I don't know, it was like four o'clock in the morning. It was really late. And I like,

I started to feel this like weird, like abandoned on the moon astronaut feeling. Like I just felt very, even though like we were taking on the phone calls, it felt very isolated and bad. Totally. You're in like a tiny sealed box and an empty office.

And your co-host is asleep. But the thing about the New Zealand call, was the way he described where he was, it felt like he was literally standing on the edge of the world. Okay. Like, he just described the place he was as, like, so pretty and remote. And, like, and it felt nice to be talking to someone from the farthest possible point. Yeah, I mean, that's sort of like, if I were to think of the utopian version of the internet, that's it.

It's like, you get to talk to people who have, who are, like, at the literal furthest point from you with, like, the most diametrically opposed life that. you can never touch, but then suddenly all distances collapsed by this wonderful technology. All right, Carl Sagan. And in the beauty of the night sky. No. Like, I guess my question is just like, is there a point in your past where you, like, what's the time where you most remember that feeling of just being remote and isolated and just having a very thin line back to where life?

was what you're describing sounds like the time I was committed to a mental hospital. That is an example of feeling isolated. Is it, is it okay if I ask you like what happened? So this was like 15 years ago. This was when you were in Texas? This was when I was in Massachusetts. Oh. And I was just a person who was deeply chemically imbalanced and needed a lot of help, which I have since gotten. So like, I'm in good shape. But like being in a mental hospital, remote because you're trapped in a place with people you don't like you have to sleep in a room with people you don't like because you don't you don't get a room to yourself you have no autonomy can't shut a door and they have a phone you can use as much as you want but they do this thing

where they this cruel thing where they're like listen you know if what it tells us when you do this Because like all you, all anybody wants in this position, which is like you have no privacy, you're totally exposed. You're doing group therapy 15 times a day to tear yourself apart and rebuild yourself as something that is like stable enough to walk out the doors. So you can use the phone whenever you want. But what they say is like, listen, what you're telling us when you use the phone all the time is that you're not ready to leave here. That's the most isolated I've ever felt, I guess. What did you, what was your little straw to see the world through? Like, was it the phone?

Basically, I was like trying to, I was just like trying to find those moments when you're like desperately alone and you need someone who understands what you're going through. And so you just keep like, so I feel like this was a very common experience in college where I was just like calling and calling and calling people from my dorm room being like, I just need you to understand me. I just need you to understand me. Just magnify that 100 times when you're in the mental hospital. And it also happened to be the weekend of my grandmother on my mom's side's funeral. And I called my mom and I was like, hey, I can't come. I'm in a mental hospital. I need you to understand me.

What did she say? She was like, I can't believe you'd fucking do this. And I was like, well, I didn't exact. I did get committed. So. I bet your mom feels so bad about that. She's going to when she hears this. So like, I don't know.

This is like weird and I don't know if it will work. But like, it's like, every. once in a while, there have been these moments where actually it's like instead of us just yamering forever, it's like, we'll hear from people who normally have to listen. Like with the call-in show, it happened a bunch of times where it would be like all of a sudden it was like on a dock under some stars in the Midwest. You know what I mean? Or like we were like in a dorm room in a weird dorm room fight. I guess I just want, I just, I want that feeling. Like basically like the dream version as somebody's like,

I'm on an oil rig in deep space, and this is where I'm recording from. I'm sorry, an oil rig in deep space. Isn't that a thing in some sci-fi movie? I don't know. What do they mine in space? Unobtainium. Okay, I'm in an unobtainium mine in deep space,

and I listen to the podcast, and this is my, like, mining hole. You want, like, the John Cage, four minutes and 33 seconds? No, it doesn't have to be silent. I actually would be totally happy if people are like, here's why it feels like how it feels out here. But I just want to feel the sense of like you like send audio out and like it usually

doesn't come back. And I want to see the farthest places it comes back from. I like that idea. Basically I just want clips where it's like people saying like where they are, what they're seeing there and how it feels to be there. And maybe like actually like a minute of just like the sound of that place. Mm-hmm. Just to be clear, Unobtainium is really only on the planet of Pandora.

What is Unabtanium from? Avatar. Avatar? How are you pulling Avatar references? I got to be honest. Today I was thinking about how after that movie came out, there were all those articles about people who saw the movie and then became depressed because Pandora seemed so utopian that they, like, got in forums and were just like, God, I wish I could just be one of those blue guys. That was a thing? I mean, I don't think it was a real.

I think like one person said it on a forum and it became an article on 100 different news outlets. That's such a sweet expression of being very depressed. Okay. If people have stuff, what's the email address that we tell people to send emails to? Well, there's reply all at gymletmedia.com. Is that what we want to use? What's your personal one, though? So send your recordings just about a minute or so to reply all at gimletmedia.com. Subject line, unobtainium. Replyal is hosted by me, PJ Vote, and Alex Goldman.

Our show is produced by Shruti Pino Menini, Fia Bannon, Damiano Marquetti, Anna Foley, and Jessica Young. Shows edited by Tim Howard. This week, we had more editing help from Emmanuel Barry. Our intern is Heather Schroering, and the shows mixed by Rick Kwan, fact-checking by Michelle Harris. Special thanks this week to Amira Virgil, founder of the Blacksimmer, and to the nod. Again, go check them out. We have links to all the episodes that I mentioned in our show notes, and go right from there. Our theme song is by the mysterious breakmaster cylinder.

There are actually a lot of additional music credits for this episode. You can find them on our website, replyall.com. Matt Lieber is a long drive at night. You can find more episodes of the show on iTunes, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening. We'll see you in two weeks. Menu. Maintenance. System checkup. Start.

Well, that's lucky. I wonder how many times I can get thrown like that. Periless cliffs. Nice touch. Over here. Watch out for the edge. Oh that thing is. There's some over here too. Who shiny. Another computer chip on the ground. I said I found enough. I want to put this in my head.

Say nothing if you agree. Okay. Put this in my head. I could never resist a bad idea. Hey, these look like paw prints over here. Whoa. Maybe I should sit down.