Reply All - #156 The Cure for Everything

Episode Date: January 30, 2020

PJ and Alex open up the hotline again to tackle listener problems and mysteries, no job too weird. This time – a Waze vortex, a tribunal for HawtNugz, and a powerful mystery cure that could topple the world into dystopia. www.helpwiththecure.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

From Gimlet, this is Reply-All. I'm PJ Vote. And I'm Alex Goldman. Alex. Yeah. From time to time, there's a thing we do on the show where we open up the Reply-L hotline. We take mostly questions from listeners that are technical in nature. Sometimes it sort of goes past that.

The weird or the better, honestly. The weird or the better. And we put out the call a couple weeks ago. We got some great calls. We're going to play for you. Let's do it. Hello. Who's this?

My name's Jen And I'm here with my friends Kate and Bennett Kate and Bennett Yeah Is that weird? No It's not weird

What do you guys all have one problem Or three different problems? Yes well yeah we do have we all have one Kind of shared Dilemma Okay what is it Okay so last week I got like a weird message From like a friend on Facebook

What about the message? Sentra was intrinsically weird. What does it say? Well, it was just like, hey, quick question. I'm having, like, phone problems. There's not too many people online to ask, sorry. And it was like, do you mind if I, like, send you a quick text and you screenshot the conversation so I can have the number from it? Does she mean her number? no like the like code number that oh like a confirmation number to get into uh like a website or shit okay i see where this is going exactly and like because i'm not like super techie i was like uh okay sir um so i sent her my phone and she was like oh what's your number real quick and i sent her my

frickin phone number and then and then so she sent me the text and then i screenshoted the like code and I send it back to her and then they stopped applying. And so I was like, okay, weird, but I didn't really like think much of it. And then about like a week after I first got the initial like weird message, I was out with my friends and I got a Instagram message from my other friend being like, hey, I think your Facebook account got hacked. And I was like, what? What did happen to it? Well, basically a bunch of people on my friend's list. We're getting messages.

Saying your phone wasn't working? Like literally the same message. Yeah, exactly. So I was like, okay, cool. What the heck? I posted like an Insta story being like, hey, like don't reply to any messages. Like I'm getting hashtag now and also report my account. But they went and deleted it.

On your Instagram? Because it's connected to your Facebook? It is all connected. That really makes me think it's not a bot. That really makes me think it's a person. Yeah, totally. Right? Exactly. So my friends who I was with Kate, who's here now, she like messaged our group chat on Facebook being like, hey, don't reply to any messages that Jen sends. She's being hacked right now. And the person who is on my account saw that message and left the group immediately and like unfriended all the people in that group. Except for Kate, which is weird. Yeah. And then I kept getting like.

like my sister called me and she was like um hey this doesn't really sound like you but i gave them my number and i was like oh no oh no and like we like yeah kind of uh kate was like messaging the hacker through her account and like the replies that they were sending us was like oh don't worry about it like she'll get her her account back in 24 hours i'm not doing anything malicious like um like you don't have to worry about it and that kind of stuff and it's super strange um but Our initial question is like, what is the scam? Because they didn't post anything. Like, they didn't.

Like, what did they want with the account? Yeah, exactly. It seemed like they're just trying to like reach as many accounts as possible, but like, why? I have a guess. I have a strong theory for you based on something that happened me this weekend, which is like somebody tried to scam me. So I've been trying to get rid of this broken treadmill. on Craigslist.

Every time I try to sell something on Craigslist is the same thing, which is like, I set what I think is a super low price, and I'm like, I will entertain no lower offers, and then people lowball me, and I get mad, and then I give it away for free out of anger. That's smart. Yeah, really...

So I did that. Like, that whole thing happened, and finally I was like, screw this. I'm just going to put it out with like a free sign, because people in my neighborhood takes up all the time. On the curb, yeah. So I curved it, and then this guy had emailed me and was like, like, hey, I'm really interested. Like, can you send me your phone number to discuss?

And I was like, listen, man, I, it was, he was so wanted to pay for it. And I was like, you don't need to pay for it. It's outside my house. You can go get it. And he was like, well, I'd really like to call to discuss this to see if I can change your mind. If I could change your mind? Listen, you deserve some money.

Yeah. And so he was like, do you mind? Can you just send me your phone number? Can I call you? I was like, no. And I ended it? And then it was like, this person was trying to scam me, but I don't know how. You know what I mean?

Like, clearly this person wanted my phone number, not a treadmill. So I searched online, and I found this thing about how basically in the hunt to get people's phone numbers to plug into like robocall databases, there are now scammers who troll Craigslist just getting email addresses plus phone numbers plus names or even just like working phone numbers. And so the whole scam, according to this, was just to get my phone number. My guess is that the person who's working through your account, once they're in, they have the names of all your friends. In a lot of cases, they have their email addresses, their phone numbers. Like, my guess is they're going in to make, like, a spam database as big as possible. Oh.

So they're just, like, getting access to as many, like, phone numbers and emails as possible to add it to all, like, one list. That's my guess. And it does sound like a spam to do. a lot of effort, but the fact that somebody is willing to engage in, like, multiple emails with me just to get one phone number, it makes me think, oh, yeah, definitely, this makes sense. Because every account they crack, they're probably getting, like, I mean, I don't know how many Facebook friends you have. Like, a lot.

Too many. Like, probably, like, 1,200? Yeah, so if that's, like, a 1,200-person database, that's probably worth some time. Right. Okay. Cool. All right. Well, thanks so much, Jen.

Thanks for taking our call. Have a good one. Bye. My computer again. This is Alex. And PJ. Hey. Who's this?

Wow. This is a, uh, from, uh, Chicago. How's it going? It's gone. All right. Um, I have a question. It's kind of technical in nature. It's kind of, if you all, okay, wait, can you guys bleat my name?

Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so this is really weird. Um, Super weird. Extremely weird. All right. But,

okay. So, I'm pretty sure I might have figured out the cure to balding. What? I'm sorry?

Like hair loss. So basically it's like genetic. I am so curious. What is your profession? I'm actually a software engineer. I work at a big tech company. So not like a follicle geneticist?

No, no, no. But I did take some science classes in college and stuff. There is some science behind it, like some biochemistry that I'm kind of... Just tell me the story of how you found this. Well, supposedly. So basically. you know, my dad has been balding for a while. And I have a twin brother who...

Identical or fraternal? Fraternal. So, yeah. So, you know, there's a chance that, you know, he has, like, much stronger balding genes. I don't know. There's a lot of weird stuff about how balding works. Anyway, I...

Well, okay, wait. So there's one thing that I have to say, though, that kind of makes this sort of interesting or weird, which I need to ask you guys about, is it's sort of like a limited supply of this thing. The thing that is the, is this all wind up to a bit? No, no, no, this is no bit.

Okay. So the thing, the mysterious, like, X serum that might cure baldness, there's a limited supply of it on earth? Yes, yes. I feel like I'm having a dream right now. It sounds like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. Have you ever read it? The guy accidentally creates a serum that turns him into an animal and then he can't figure

out a cure. I thought it'd turn him into Mr. Hyde. Yeah, Mr. Hyde's kind of like an animal man. And he's like, and at first he's like, I love it. I'm going to take some more of this. And then he takes some more. And he's like, oh, no, I'm turning into him permanently. Actually, you know what?

It doesn't really. Like, fuck, Dr. Judge, it doesn't really? What is this mysterious serum? Okay. So have you seen Empire Strikes Back? Because it sounds a lot like Empire Strikes Back. So they're on half. But there's these Jedi, right?

They have laser swords. Wait, no, what is going on? What is going on? You need to tell us what's up. Yeah, you're being very coy about this. Yeah, stop meeting around the bush. Okay, so here's the problem. We're not going to beat you to market.

No, no, I, it's not, I'm concerned because if it comes out, then it is almost by nature. It has to be limited. I mean, the thing is, I think there might. be waste to sort of increase the supply a little bit, but the thing I'm concerned about is that if it comes out, then only like wealthier people will afford it. And there'll be sort of like a... You'll live in this dystopia where all the poor people are bald and all the rich people have like luscious, luscious locks of hair?

Kind of, yeah, basically. And the thing is, it's not just like related to hair. Like it actually has a lot of ramifications for like health and uh what the fuck is it you're gonna have to get you have to tell us something what is it uh it's i the thing is if i the thing is if i say what it is it fucking moon rocks what is it the blood of salamanders uh salamanders are in pretty plentiful supply yeah until everyone starts killing them to make their hair all along and shiny. It's also a very strange thing

and it's not like, you have got to provide details. You've got to give us something or we need to end the phone call. You're making me crazy over here. Tell us something. I love you guys that I can't do it. All right.

We got to go because I don't know what we can do to help you here. I'm still just very curious. Why do you think this mystery substance cures baldness? Oh, because I've sort of been testing it on myself. But how do you know that it's stopping you from going bald versus you're just not going bald?

Yeah, so, I mean, I could be like a crack pot. Like, it could be completely wrong. Like, this could be some, you know, I understand that. But the thing is I've noticed, like, very, very substantial differences that I feel I can't be chocked up to. Like, you were starting to lose your hair and then it stopped you from losing your hair? And did your hair grow back? Oh, yeah.

And the thing is, like, um, um, I can, you know, obviously genetics are different between fraternal twins, but my brother has progressed way more, and I've sort of like... So why don't you give him some of your stuff? Yeah, don't you? Yeah, that would be, he would be a good way to test. I think the thing is, it's kind of freaky. And that's why I hesitate to say... Wait, what do you mean?

It's kind of freaky. It's ghost. It's kind of like very strange. It's not that it's, it's... What is the thing? What is it? This is almost mad, and I'm going to have to be in this room with him now and afterwards. I'll email you guys later.

Okay. Yeah, sorry. It's just, yeah. That's okay. That's okay. This is a very strange phone call. I'm very curious, but just send us an email. Okay.

But I still don't know exactly what your question is. What your question is. Oh, it's just like the question is, like, how would you deal with that, the like, sort of this. The scarcity? That dystopian problem. Because if it comes out, then, you know, like, it's almost like a philosophical question. Like, what do you do? Like, would you rather not come out?

Is the mystery substance that may or may not cure baldness, is it something that is useful in other ways? Like, is it something that if there was a run on, like, I don't know, if it's fire extinguisher juice, if there's a run on fire extinguisher juice, all that. Hauser-a-burn, or is it just some random thing? It's a thing that... It's a food. Like a plant?

It's not a plant. Because most food can be grown or made. Yes. Yeah, so, you know, it probably can be increased in supply. I mean, if it's... But it's still by nature of what it is, it's like, it's limited by, like, resources. More than anything. More than even what it is, I am dying to know just like...

How do you apply it? No, no. How did you discover this finite resource and be like, you know what? You were like, I'm going to rub corn on my head. I, again, I could be insane, absolutely wrong. Like, I do consider myself a smart person. You know, I went to a good call. Yeah, yes.

Skip to the part where you're rubbing corn on your head, though. No, you don't rub anything on your head. There's no rubbing of any substances. anywhere. But, uh, so it's just like a food you eat. Yeah. And it makes your hair grow back.

It's not, it just, it doesn't do just that. It like, it, it makes you feel, it's, I do feel like we're being conned somehow.

I do feel like a, I feel like a con. There's no con. There's no, if, if it's a con, I'm conning myself too. So it could be,

it could be an insane person, basically. But, uh, here's my, Here's my response to your concern. If you feel like an emotional, like if you feel emotionally like you can't handle the idea that only millionaires or billionaires are going to be able to support by your baldness cure, give some to your brother, first of all, if he wants it. And then, you know, share it with your friends.

But also, who cares the dystopia where some people are bald and other people have hair? It already exists. It already similar to where we live and everyone's fine. Not only that, but the dystopia where, like, rich people get. amazing things that poor people don't get also already exists. Including hair. Like there are celebrities who were going bald and then suddenly they're not going bald. Like, of all the problems in the world, and there are many, and even all the kinds of technology

that maybe shouldn't be invented but are being invented, this kind of feels like not that big a deal for the amount of angst that it's giving you. Is it swordfish? It's definitely. So the thing is, it goes beyond hair. Like, I think hair is sort of just like a marker for health. And I know people would disagree with that. Like, oh, male pattern baldness is normal?

You know. How else has your life changed? How else is your physical well-being changed since you start eating mystery goo? My, so I used to, like, feel, like, really tired and sort of, like, depressed throughout the day. Just like this, like, I just want to lay in bed and, like, not do anything. but this is sort of like, it's like almost like remove this thing that was the shroud of depression.

I wouldn't call it so like crippling depression, but it was this sort of like. Yeah, I've got that flavor of depression. I know that flavor. It's just like everything's kind of hard to do. It's like it's llama meat. Lama meat. Oh, the food is Lama meat.

I thought you were calling that kind of depression Lama meat. No. But seriously, as a balding guy who's very depressed, I would love a bite of whatever you're, Chop it up. Okay. I'll get in touch with you guys through email.

I feel like you're not going to do that. I don't know that you are, but can you send... Usually it leads out of to Alex. Truly, he's... I mean, we're both going through depressive episodes. His is worse than mine right now. And the man has lost a bunch of his hair. And if there's a miracle cure,

would you want your hair back? Do you care? It's like a thing I've kind of made peace with, but if someone was like, all your hair will come back and it won't look weird like hair plugs. I'd be like, yeah, okay. So if this... The podcast has brought you

Enjoy it in your life for free. I feel like the least you can do is give me my damn hair back. Raise Alex's impression. Otherwise, you're just telling him that mystery goo exists. Yeah, you're telling me the curest here.

He's going to be walking out of aisle, holding up like cream corn, being like, maybe this is it. I'm going to eat some coffee grounds today, see if that's it. Maybe it's sardines. I just looked you up. You have a full head of hair.

But, so there are different types of balding, that. Like, gosh. Why are you in so much pain? I don't know, because I think part of it is just that, well, first of all,

it could be insane, right? Like, it could be totally wrong. If you're wrong, it doesn't mean you're insane. It just means that you're over-extrapolating a coincidence. That's not the same as being insane. Yeah. You know the other possibility for what's going on with you, though?

Uh-huh. Hair loss, like short-term hair loss can be a function of anxiety. And it's possible you're just going through a depressed, anxious moment. You started eating an unusual food, and it had a placebo effect, which was real. Like, the placebo effects were real. And so your stress went down until your hair came back. Mm-hmm. Is it the hair of other men?

Huh? No. There's no hair of your... You eat other people's hair and then suddenly it just spouts on your head. I feel like people have tried that. Anyway, send it to Alex. He really needs it. He's going through a thing. Yeah, going through a hard time, man. The hair stuff's less important than the depression, if I'm being honest.

Yeah, I'll tell you. I think, yeah, maybe I can talk to Alex in private. I think PJ might judge more. I don't know. Well, yeah. Excuse you. Wow. Wow. I think he's right.

Okay. Thanks, man. Good luck. All right. Thank you. All right. Thank you, guys. Thanks, PJ.

Have a good one. Bye. Bye. I swear to God, before this episode is over, we're going to find out what that is. After the break, we take some more calls from listeners.

Hello? Hi. Who's this? My name is David. Hi, David. And I live in Massachusetts. This thing that's been puzzling me for years, which is that I have to drive in traffic in order to get home from

Somerville. I work in the burbs, and it's a long commute. And so I always have some kind of route-finding app open, usually Google or ways. And when I get close to home, I'm like 10 minutes away from home, they always tell me the wrong way. Like, they'll say, you are nine minutes from home. You should go straight now. And I'm like, I should not go straight. I take a right. And then it recalculates and goes, you are now five minutes from home. And I'm like, how can you? can you just get this wrong over and over and over again? And it's always the same kind of wrong? Yeah, it's always, this happens always at the intersection of Mass Ave and Route 16.

Okay, so I know one possibility, which is that I'd heard a story about how, I think the New York Times report on this, like, Waze, Google Maps, like one of these pathfinding apps had, you know, figured out through the magic of the algorithm that people could shave like four minutes off their commute by getting off this highway at this one point and cutting through a local road. And the problem with doing that, even though it was like mathematically true, is that it was destroying life for the people who actually depended on the local road. And because the apps were sending so many people on that route, the route was no longer working and it was just like creating panamonium. I wonder if your local road is one of those roads. I wonder if your neighbors

have been like, keep us off ways, keep us off Google Maps. That could be what's going on. Huh. Cool. Hey, thanks. Wow, you guys are awesome. Thanks, David. Bye.

Bye. Hi, this is Alex and PJ. Who are we speaking to? My God. Who's this? My name's Teddy. I live outside of Santa Cruz. Hi, Teddy.

How's it going on? You sounded like you were making up your name a little bit. I've been trying to get through since 11th. I just really wasn't expecting that. Oh. It's like Bloody Mary, man. So what's your question? Well, my question kind of has to do with my name, actually. Okay. So I've been locked down to my Facebook for like five years now.

What happened five years ago? They changed their policy. Oh, on real names. Like it has to be on your birth certificate or whatever? Exactly. Oh. So I promise you my name is Teddy, although that's not my legal name. Got it.

And I've tried everything. Like I even sent them a picture in my ID and I was like, I don't care you can put my legal name. They like at one point had me get three people to confirm who I was with like codes and I did that. And it didn't work. And I like emailed them a bunch of things. I try to get really like indignant and called them transphobic. I've just been, I've been, I haven't been Hana, which is my legal name for a long time. And I think at that point in time on Facebook, it was like my DJ name, which was Hot Nugs.

So, wait, your name wasn't Teddy was Hot Nugs? It wasn't my name. That was just my nickname, and that's just what my Facebook name was. What was the etymology of Hot Nugs? There's a story behind it, which is that, like, since I was a kid, I had spelled HANA phonetically because people always called me Hannah. And I spelled it H-A-W-N-U-G-H. and when I got this radio show, it just kind of happened because of how I spelled Hana, it just became hot nugs.

And then people totally called me nugs for years. And is nugs like weed nugs? I mean, like, no, it's just because of Hana, but that's why I couldn't introduce myself that way. And, like, when I have, people are always like, well, that's such a weird name. And I'm just like, yeah, my parents are stoner. It's like, I always tell you.

that's so funny so everyone in Santa Cruz is just prepared to believe in a world where they were like and we will name of our child hot nines you ever been to Santa Cruz that's an awesome name also I kind of get why

when they're looking around about whether people have their real names or not they're like hot nugs doesn't totally fast as well to us that's not real but it's still like you know Hannah wasn't my name anyways and yeah like I just need access

in my Facebook because it still exists and I just want to delete it. And then like at some point one of my good friends died and I really wanted to get on there. So I like tried that angle and every angle I've used hasn't worked. And then they didn't let you in? No. What happens when you try to log in? Okay. So it says unfortunately you won't be able to access your account while we're reviewing these additional documents.

When did you submit those documents? Five years ago. Okay. Hot nags, we'll see what we can do for you. Yeah. Thank you. Hello. Teddy?

Yeah. Okay, so I've learned things about what's going on with your... Well, not about what's going... I basically have bad news for you and an explanation for why things are bad. I knew it. I knew it. Do you want to know more about the reason things are bad? I do, yeah.

Always. Always loving the bad news. So I talked to this journalist named... Casey Newton. Hey, this Casey. Hey, Casey, it's PJ. How you doing, PJ? He does this newsletter called The Interface and he writes for the Verge, and he just covers the hell out of Facebook. Uh-huh. And I was like, okay, so what is going on here? Like, is that these thing like in a is it in a pile that they're working through very slowly? No. No, nothing. No one has been working through a queue for five years. There's no way that is true. Got it. Most of these

companies really do not intervene in cases like this until it becomes a PR story. Oh. Like he's like basically their PR department is the help desk. He said he gets, and I get these too and I didn't realize it was like a thing. He's verified on Twitter. So he's like constantly getting messages from people who are just like asking him like, hey, I got locked out on my Facebook. Hey, I got locked on my Instagram. Can you help me?

And the messed up thing is like they're actually, they are making the right and logical choice because they're appealing to somebody who theoretically like Facebook would care about in a way that they don't generally care about people. So basically what he said, which was really interesting, was that, like, a way to think about Facebook is they're sort of, they're like a tech company that has accidentally stumbled into being a government. And the way they're running things right now is sort of like Mark Zuckerberg is sort of like a king. And there's kind of like a gentry class of like slightly important like journalist type people who they pay attention to. But like otherwise it's a pretty undemocratic government. And he said, like, the worst example of this he'd seen, which he's like, I cover Facebook all the time. I don't tend to get mad. This was the one that actually made me feel crazy.

A couple years ago, either Zuckerberg himself or his corporate risk people said, you know, you've sent a lot of messages on Facebook Messenger, and we think that there's just risk associated with you having all of these messages out of the world. And so what we're going to do is we're going to unilaterally delete every message you've ever sent that is older than, I don't know, six months or something like that. And so instantly, people around the world who had message with Mark Zuckerberg went to go open up their Zuckerberg chat window, and what they saw was a one-sided conversation. Because Facebook had deleted all of Mark Zuckerberg's messages and none of theirs.

That's so unfair. Right? So it's like Zuckerberg understood the value of privacy and disappearing messages for himself, and presumably for other people, but ultimately, he only gave himself that privilege. What? Yes. Damn.

So the one thing Casey told me that was, like, surprising and was not just, like, more details about the dystopia you suspect that you live in already. Is that he said, like, if you think of Facebook as a country, that is, like, slowly discovering government, he said that this year, they're introducing something that actually looks kind of like the beginning of a democracy, sort of? I don't know if you've read much about the Facebook Oversight Board. So Facebook sometime this year is going to launch what is effectively a Supreme Court for content moderation that is going to be independent from Facebook. So Facebook is funding it. They're going to appoint the first board members,

but then they're not going to have any say. And initially, if your content was removed and you believe that it was done in error, then you can appeal to this board. and if they choose to hear your case from what will presumably be thousands, that court will issue a binding ruling, and then Facebook will either have to continue to leave it down or put it back up. And Facebook is also going to be able to take policy questions to the board. It's basically like, you know, should we allow this particular thing or not?

That's so crazy. It's like watching, it's like watching society happen over again, faster. a company. Yeah, yeah, completely. This seems like the, this seems like trying to get like a gubernatorial pardon or something. Like it seems just about as likely as that. I think it's a pretty outside chance. Yeah. Also, I feel like I should just say, obviously, what Facebook says about all this publicly is that they do have a working fair process. It isn't just for celebrities. But my experience basically tracks with Casey's on this. Anyway, there was one other thing I was curious about. One of the things you'd mention was that the reason, a reason you want

get back into your account was there was like stuff involving a friend of yours who had died. Mm-hmm. I just had a lot of photos of him on there that don't exist anywhere else. Okay, wait. I have an idea. Yeah. Okay. So Facebook has this thing where they let you download your information.

Like you can just download all the data you voluntarily uploaded to Facebook. Oh, yeah, totally. So I'm looking at it. It says if you don't have a Facebook account, but believe you. Facebook may have information about you, you can contact us to get a copy of your information. So it might be the same thing. And you think photos would be included in information? Yeah, it's everything.

Oh, cool. I will definitely try that. It's a good idea. Yeah. So maybe you can get some help that way. Yeah. I'm sorry that we live in a country that is run by Mark Zuckerberg. That's okay.

Well, I mean, not okay, but not your fault. It's also, like, not a huge deal. Like, it's just my Facebook. Facebook, if you're listening, get in touch so we can unlock Teddy's account. If we have that kind of cloud. If we have that kind of clout, I'd be stoked. Also, fix your systems that doesn't depend on Alex Goldman being considered famous.

Yeah. Okay. All right. Let us know if this works. Let us know if you hear from them. All right. Hi. Hi, this is Alex and PJ.

Hello. Who's this? This is Taylor's. Where are you calling from? I'm calling from L.A. Cool. What's your technical support problem? I don't know if this is like a good question to ask, but what is up with ads for mobile games?

Like the one I play is Homscapes. What's it? Homscapes is just like Matchington Mansion, which is the game that I play. You play basically like Candy Crush style game and then you get to furnish your house, right? Yeah. It's a fake house now. Alex is like Alex, Alex is, I can just, his face just wants to talk about matching and managing now for about 30 minutes. I'm on like level 2,500.

I've been playing it for over a year. Yeah, I've been playing homescapees for like a year and a half now and I'm obsessed. Why is, how are they different? Yeah, I have never played homescape. So how is it different? So homescape's is the sequel to Garden Scape's. And then I think Matchington Mansion is the, the like off brand.

Yeah. But I noticed like, I can't remember when it started, but I remember seeing ads where you had to select items to complete action. So it'd be like, the kitchen's on fire and the sink is licking. I know exactly what you're talking about. Wait, I haven't seen these ads. So that's how I got to download matching. That's what fooled me into downloading matching dimension.

Please describe this. It'll be a scenario. Like, oh, the bathtub is flooding in the bathroom. and a bunch of items will come up at the bottom. It'll be like a fire extinguisher and a wrench and a bucket and you have to select what is the best thing to use for. To fix the leaky. And this is a pop-up ad?

Yeah, I'm playing a, I'm playing like a mobile game. I get a pop-up ad for a game where you have to like, where there's like a puzzle where you have to fix a household appliance. It's called Matchington Mansion. I download Matchington Mansion. And the game that I get is completely different than the one that was in the end. And you found that ad like hypnotically irresistible? I found it compelling enough to downboat Magicton Mansion.

Why did this work on you guys? Is it just the joy of- Because I like puzzles? Yeah, I like puzzles. And maybe I'm not picturing this right, but it sounds like the puzzle is like, what should you use to put out a fire, baseball bed or water? Like, I don't know you get to call that a puzzle. But it's not always super straightforward, though.

I'm just like, why, where did these ads come from? Yeah, I agree with you. And why are they allowed to keep on happening? My guess is just the mechanics of Matchington Mansion, or what's the other one called? Homscapes. Homescapes are a little bit confusing to give somebody a teaser for. But they're not. It's just candy cry.

But it's not. Weird. I don't know. I don't get why you don't just make that the video game. Yeah. It's really weird. Honestly, if it was a video game, I would play it. Yeah, me too.

I hope you're able to get help for your addiction to crappy phone games. Neither of me or Alex is doing well. Here's the worst part. Just last week, I found that Diner Dash released a game like this where you fix up the town by completing Diner Dash levels. What's Diner Dash? So I'm re-addicted. Oh, have you ever played Diner Dash?

This is like watching someone be introduced to a new street drug that their body's not able to handle. Like Alex is all like rubbing his hands together ready for his new addiction. I mean, mobile gaming is the future. Yep, Taylor, thank you. The future. Thank you. I hope you find something out. We'll see what we can figure out.

Bye. Gotta say, I'm not like a Coca-Cola man. Like, I'll drink RC Cola, but I didn't realize I was playing the off-branded of like six-month-games. Hi, Taylor. Hi. This is Alex. Also PJ. Oh, and PJ.

So I have answers for you, believe it or not. Ooh, I'm excited to hear it. I found a reporter named Jess Joho. who is a staff writer at Mashable. Hi, is this Jess? Yes, this is Jess. This is. How you doing?

I'm good. How are you? And when I told Jess about the fake ads that you got and that I got, she was like, oh, yeah, that's the thing that companies have been doing for a while. Yeah, so that is absolutely not a new strategy. They're basically using it as targeted advertising for a specific type of player who they've identified as their power players, the people who spend the most time, spend the most money in-app purchases. And so they just throw in whatever they know will appeal to that specific type of player.

And what these companies have realized is that these power players are way more interested in the fake game that they've advertised in these ads than the one that they've actually made. And I was like, okay, well, why don't they just make that game then? Well, because that would be a lot more money, right? Like that would cost, that would actually cost money to make a whole new game with a whole new game system and a whole new game loop that, you know, works. That takes years and years and years of development. But it's pretty simple to just make like an animation that looks like a new game, get people to download it. And then like mopes like me, by the time they hit level 25, they're like hooked. And on top of that, I kept playing well past the point at which I should have stopped because I was like, well, maybe it's,

I just haven't unlocked that level yet. That's so infuriating. I definitely thought that they would be mini-games at one point or another. Exactly. I'm glad I'm not alone. I was like, okay, so I have to finish decorating this room and then I'll have to solve one of these problems. And I was like, well, I didn't have to solve the problem. But I just decorated the foyer. Maybe I'll have to go to the bathroom and fix that one up. And maybe there'll be a leaky sink.

Well, this is disappointing. And I really want someone to make this other. game. I bet you that the guy who they made do that, he's like the equivalent of the dude who wanted to make a great art film and he has to make crap. I bet you that on his nights and weekends he has made that game and is not allowed to release it. Oh, we must find him. Thanks, Taylor. Thank you guys so much. Have a great day. You too. Bye. Bye. Hi. Hello. Hello. Who is this? Hi, I'm Isaac and I'm calling from probably the coolest place anyone's going to call from today. Where's that? I am at a skiff somewhere in New York.

A skiff? Do you guys know what a skiff is? A small boat? No, a skit, it's, uh, intelligence community speak for a secret location. What? Are you in the intelligence community? Or are you just using intelligence community speak? Are you allowed to say this to us on a podcast? Yeah, I'm allowed to say this to you.

I, this is, I'm not allowed to tell you where I am, but I'm allowed to tell you I'm at a skiff. So what, why are you at a skiff? So I am a 9-11 family member. And I am here watching the hearings for Dr. James Mitchell. Who's Dr. James Mitchell? He was one of the torture doctors. What is he on trial for? He's not on trial.

He's testifying as a witness. This is part of the Khalid Sheikh Mohammed versus U.S. trial. Oh. Yeah, this is just a free trial hearing. So this is the guy who essentially planned 9-11, and they're basically trying to figure out whether he was tortured in an illegal way that makes them... No, sort of. The government has admitted that KSM was waterboarded 183 times. Wow.

Yeah, which is there's two schools of thought. The more conservative we should have tortured than school of thought says he was waterboarded five times. But the more progressive side says 183 times. because that's the number of times water was actually poured on him. Where do you fall on that? I think I'm on the 183 side of that. I do not think that these people should have been tortured. I think it was avoidable.

But I'm also, okay, let me go back. I say that with the awareness that many of the other family members who I've spoken to do believe that torture is a part of war and that it was not avoidable and that these are the people who, you know, killed our family members. But even Dr. Mitchell, he just testified that that type of thinking is very dangerous. And he's the guy who they were using as part of their justification to waterboard in the first place? He was the one doing the waterboarding. Oh, he was doing the actual waterboarding? Yeah. And was he the one? I saw a headline this morning where somebody had said, like, that they were administering waterboarding and that they

had wanted to stop, like they thought it wasn't. Yes. And the CIA was like, no, you testified to yesterday. Got it. And the room you're in, what does a skiff look like? Like, who's in there? Are there snacks? Like, what?

Are there windows? They're, they're not snacks. There are no windows. Well, I'm outside right now. I'm a Denny next to a parking lot, actually. But they're inside. There are no windows. And it's sort of like a big, it looks a lot like a high school theater.

The seats are made of metal and they have these, like, red, they have like, red padding on them and it's like kind of gross because it looks really old. So I'm like putting my coat down and like using my coat as a barrier. They're projecting the closed circuit TV onto the back wall. They're flags of all 50 states and all five branches of the armed forces. Wow. Because this is the base I'm on. In New York?

They are. Yeah, it's, I'm in the city somewhere. I'll say that. Okay. So can I ask you? You lost family in 9-11? Yeah. How old were you?

I was four. I'm 22 years old. What happened? I lost my uncle. He was a Port Authority lawyer. We were very fortunate. We managed to find his body, the whole body. He was in a service elevator in the North Tower with a bunch of firefighters.

And the general consensus is that the elevator was going up, not down. What does that mean? So he was going back into the tower to make sure that all of his employees and all the people he worked with got out. And are people, what's the vibe is not the word I wish I was going to use? But like, what's the mood? Are people watching this like talking to each other? Is it hushed like a movie theater? So because I'm a freak and I have notes on all the weird classified shit that they're talking about,

I'm, when I go, when I'm in there, I'm a little bit holding court almost because they just, like, I can translate everything, basically, because they'll, they use a lot of strange terminology, like 505 hearing, which is a rule about the military commission. Huh. I have OCD and anxiety, which is a bad combination when it comes to, like, doing things in broad strokes. I'm with you. I have the same cocktail. It's great. Yeah. Wait, also, do you have a technical support question?

This is fascinating. You don't have to have one, but I'm just curious. No. Yeah, no, okay. So I had no idea what the hotline was open for. I just got a text from my friend who said, the hotline's open, just call. And I said, okay. Okay. Wait, but so getting back to the thing you actually initially told us about, the Dr. Mitchell's testimony, like, what has he said about the torture program he ran? So Dr. Mitchell has been very intricate in his wording. So he said that there were, there were, many meetings he had with KS.M, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, that were not interrogations. Interrogation specifically meaning questioning sessions where they could have waterboarded him, but did or did not.

Okay. Whereas the maintenance visits were where he would just go in there and talk to him and just like hang out. So he would, he would show up one time in waterboard or torture him, and then the next time he would just like hang out? Yeah. Or he would ask him like how he's feeling. Because he was an interrogator, but he was also the psychologist in charge of the mental well-being of these guys. Because it just seems weird that you would, that somebody would torture you and then you, you know?

Yes. That's mentioned in the SSCI torture report, is that it's a very strange dichotomy. Do you ever feel like being so encyclopedic on this stuff? Do you ever feel like it makes it harder for you to move on with your life? No. For this in particular, it is very disqualification. It is very disturbing, but I'm kind of desensitized to it. So I need to remember, I need to remind myself very often that, like, talking about torture

is not a good first date topic, for example. Has that been a problem you've had? I did, I had a first date a couple of months ago where I did talk about torture and how much I hate John U, and I did not get a second date. That seems reasonable. Yeah, no, I would agree. Where else have you had to learn not to talk about it? because of how messed up my brain is.

The way I process anxiety and when I'm stressed out is I'll talk about it or all vocalize that I'm stressed out and that this is what I'm stressed out about. Yeah. And, you know, if it's just like, you know, there's this girl and she's not texting me back, then like my friends are super open to that because that's a very relatable issue. But if it's like, you know, I just spent eight hours listening to James Mitchell explain in incredible detail how to wall a person. and how to build a walling wall. And so, like, with your friends, they'll be like, I can't listen to you talk about

one more torture technique for, like, two more hours. Like, it's just too much for them. Yeah, they can't. And I don't blame them at all. Like, this is why I have a therapist. It's just like, I don't blame them for not, like, wanting to listen to me to talk about

how upset I am by torture while I intricately explain, like, the correct angle on how to waterboard a person. Yeah. But to me personally, as long as I'm mindful of that, like this specific issue isn't a problem. I actually had more problems when I tried to keep a spreadsheet of mechanical keyboard information.

And I ended up having like a really bad, like mental, not quite a mental breakdown, but I had a, I went into a deep depression for a while about that. And then I ended up believing it. About mechanical keyboards? Yes, I'm deeply into mechanical keyboards. I have the fourth all-time most posts on geekhack.org, is the largest mechanical keyboard for him that's not Reddit. I think I just got a mechanical keyboard.

Good for you. I thought you'd be more jazz about that. I feel like he probably knows that your mechanical keyboard is pretty subpar relative to the ones that he's into. It's pretty cool. It's got like a weird split in the middle. You said it, not me. All right, well, listen, this has been a real Odyssey.

Thanks so much for calling. Yeah, cool. All right, thank you, gentlemen. Have a good one. Bye. So one quick note, while we were fact-checking this episode, we found out that actually, it turns out while Isaac thought he was calling us from a skiff, it was not a skiff. It was an undisclosed military location. Hey, how you doing?

Good all right. All right, dude. So, after that first call, you asked me to draw up a legal document saying that we wouldn't disclose whatever this secret thing is. And I sent it to you. I am curious, would it be okay for me to invite PJ into the room? Yeah, yeah. He's not here now. All right.

PJ is here. Oh, hey, PJ. Hey, so where are we at right now? Let me tell you what I know. I know that some sort of contract, secrecy contract, has been drawn up. Yeah. And are we any closer to the secret of the mystery, goo? So, so the thing is that that really wants us to put in the episode in

email address by which people who might be interested can contact him. Put in that, to just say, hey, if you're interested in contacting the mystery goo scientist, he has an email address? Yes. That seems fine to me. You're okay with that? Are you not okay with that? I didn't want to make any decisions in a room by myself.

It's like a mom and dad situation. Yeah. I think mom and dad are both cool with this. I mean, I am cool. Wait, and in exchange, we get the secret of the mystery goo. Yeah. You get the secret of the mystery goo. Like now?

Can I tell you my guesses? My big guesses are that it is, well, Jessica Young, or producer, she was like, she believed, she was like stem cells. Okay. And I thought that was pretty smart. And then my other guess is that it is a, how do I want to say this? Some kind of sexual fluid produced by an animal. Oh, my God. I wonder why is that

Because you said it's freaky And you don't want to tell your brother about it And there's some science background And it's like I don't know They could be that Jesus So it's not that No it's not that

So what is it What is the mystery go? It's basically It's In my heart I don't believe there's ever going to be Like I believe that we'll live in this ellipsis forever

in my heart. The longer you talk, the longer we are kept from the answer. Okay, so it's basically it's... First of all, I think that in our lifetimes or in a couple of years, like, this will come out. Like, it's not... Well, in my lifetime, it's not going to be a couple of years. The way you're talking, you know, it could be within this hour. Oh, yeah, yeah. In your life, you're about to hear it right now. Yeah. It also could be totally wrong. I always have to say that.

Okay, what is that thing? So it's a... It's a... What? Of what? Of what? Of a... Of a...

Like a... No. You know, like a... What? Why? Why? How? And how did you decide to do that?

That's a crazy thing. Equally as improbable as every improbable guess that we had. How did you get... Really? Yes. Oh, yeah, definitely. And how gross is it to eat? It seems like it'd be really gross.

I have to say... You... You described it as freaky and, like, I don't know. I have to, I have to confess that, like, the thought of doing this makes me a little queasy. Okay, okay. Let me, let me, let me just tell you something. The thing is, like, it's actually quite tasty. It doesn't sound tasty.

I mix it in with potatoes and you don't, like, feel the nastiness of, like, thinking, of knowing what it is. It just tastes like mashed potatoes. How long would I need to do it for? I would think that you could do it for like two weeks. I don't exactly know, too, right? Like, I'm, this again is out of my... Alex, are you going to do this? You're not going to do it.

I would try it. Really? Wait, for real? Yeah, I would try this. I'm having a heart... Like, I think that I'm probably going to, like, cry, trying to choke this shit down. The idea of you eating mashed potatoes to make sure. with mystery goo.

Here's the thing. It's not straight up just like two weeks. Oh, I'm just going to have this mystery goo and everything's going to be fantastic. I'm going to tell you exactly what you're going to eat those two weeks. That's fine. He's going to be your food boss. And I'll be his food baby.

This isn't weird at all. This isn't weird. Okay, so you guys will have two weeks together, food boss and food baby. Okay, one more thing. Uh-huh. Do you have before and after pictures? Of your head?

Yeah. That, so, the thing is, I'm still, like, losing hair. Like, I'm not getting this. What? I said I only had a... He said he's not getting it regularly. He's not getting the mystery goo with enough frequency. Like I said, you have to go and purchase a...

Cost about $2.000. I don't have to... dollars to spend every four or five days. And also, like, kind of an ordeal. You have to go to the, you know? But this is, like, finding out George Foreman doesn't use a George Foreman grill. But that's why, okay, so that's why I desperately called you guys, because I was like, I need help.

Like, I need... You need more... You need funds so that mystery goo can become cheaper. so that it's so, man, it's so much more poignant that you feel like you found the cure and you can't get access to it. I didn't realize that. Yeah, it's kind of depressing, to be honest. Thank you for revealing the goo. Thank you for trusting us.

Thank you for trusting us. We're not going to let you down. Yeah. Thank you. But there's one other thing that you guys says that would be able to do, right? Yes. Do you have an email address that you want to share with people? I just made it.

Let me make sure. Okay. So, yeah, so they can email help with TheCure at gmail.com. That wasn't taken? No. Cool? Yeah. Okay.

Wow. What a journey. Yeah. I can't believe it ends with Alex eating this stuff. I'm excited to... I'm not. Sounds gross. The thing is, ideally, like, I would also be able to partake.

That's the thing. Get your own stash, buddy. Dude, I just told you the secret of the mystery good. You're going to tell me that. Well, I'll be in touch with you, and we'll figure something out, okay? Yeah. All right. Take care, man.

All right. You guys, too. Hi. Bye. Reply all is hosted by PJ Vote and me, Alex Goldman. We're produced by Shruthy Pinamenni, Fia Benin, Damiano, Marquetti, Anna Foley, Jessica Young, and Emmanuel Jochi. Our executive producer is Tim Howard.

We're mixed by Rick Kwan. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris. It is our intern, Rachel Cohn's last episode with the show. Thanks so much, Rachel, and good luck. Special thanks this week to Brett Chamberlain and to everyone who called into the show. Our theme song is by The Mysterious Breakmaster Cylinder, and our ad music is by Build Build Buildings.

Matt Lieber is looking over your son's baby pictures on his fifth birthday. Happy birthday, Harvey. You can listen to the show on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening.