Reply All - #186 The Contact List

Episode Date: April 21, 2022

Emmanuel tries a personal experiment. -------- This episode was inspired by the work of Soraya Perry. Check out her work as a filmmaker, musician, and visual artist here: www.sorayaperry.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode is brought to you by that last sliver of deodorant on the stick. Somehow it's managed to last a couple of months. But today is Judgment Day. Will it be enough to handle that I wore one too many layers today kind of sweat or not? Only time will tell. Okay, now for the real lads. From Gimlet, this is Rip Thuyall. I'm Emmanuel Jochi.

Emmanuel. Mr. Barksdale, how are we doing? I'm good, cheerio, top. So I got to tell you from the jump, I'm recording this phone call because I'm doing a work project right now. Oh, man. Thank you for telling me. Of course. And so the thing I'm doing for my podcast that I host is, it's an experiment.

I decided I was going to call everybody in my contacts and just see what's that. Okay, that's interesting. That's interesting. Everybody. Yeah. So I'm... You're going to call everybody. I'm calling everybody.

You're a damn lie No, I'm serious You a damn lie There's no way in the hell Okay, everybody in my phone Right now I'm in the bees Okay You know what she did

She should do like the first 10 Yeah And last 10 of every of every letter You know what I'm saying So you get like I'll do a good I'll do a good number I'm gonna try and stay as true to it

As possible Just because it's fun Yeah Well all right What's up world You know what I'm saying It's your boy Lowe's aka Carlos You know what I'm saying?

Loso's way, Cavito's way. You know what I'm saying? Loso's practice. All that. Hey man, you've got to represent. Yeah, bro. What should we talk about, if anything? So, yeah.

A while ago, I heard about this thing an artist named Soraya Perry did. A couple years ago, she decided she was going to call all the people in her phone and record those calls for a project, which, for obvious reasons, felt terrifying to me. Right?

Like, when I would tell people about this idea, way to have this visceral reaction to it. But the more I thought about it, the more I realized I actually needed to do this. You see, I used to spend whole Sunday afternoons walking around my apartment, catching up with my friends on the phone. It used to bring me just so much joy to know what was going on with people. But for a while now, it's been hard to get on the phone about bracing myself to hear bad news. It felt like I'm constantly having the same,

but world still sucks for you too, right? kind of conversation over and over again, which sucks. So I've kind of stopped making as many calls. And I hate that because I feel my world getting smaller and smaller. So a while ago, I opened up my phone, looked at my contact list. It's roughly 1,500 people long. I wasn't sure if it was even humanly possible to get through all of them, but I started working my way down the pile. I asked people about who they were, who they thought. I was. And also got into some questions, I was not totally prepared to have to answer. Hi, the person you've reached is using a screening service from Google and we'll get a

transcript of this call. Go ahead and say your name and why you're calling. Okay. Emmanuel Jocci. I'm a reporter of a podcast called Replyul and I'm calling everybody in my phone for a story and I've gotten to your name and I will admit I do not quite know who you are. Connecting you now. Hello, good afternoon. Hi, is this Chinua? Am I pronouncing it correctly? Yes, this is he.

Hi, Chinua, this is Immanuel Jocci. Do you remember me at all? Um, frankly, I don't. I don't. Can I ask just to narrow it down? Like, where are you from? I see, so, um... Hello?

Hello? Hello? Hello? How you doing, Mr. Harper? I am fine. And you? I'm good. I'm good.

Okay, so we probably met in New York, is my guess. Definitely. I'm just going to start saying names. And I want to see if maybe you know anybody. Do you know anybody named Winston? No, I don't know Winston. Okay. Do you know anyone named Mario?

I do know Mario. Is his last name Rosser? No, no. Sorry, I asked that because I have a... Hey, Ali, can you hear me? Yeah, I'm on a stair master. Let me saw my speed down. Wait, you're at the gym right now?

You showed me an apartment last year. Okay. Which one? Which one? Oh, it was... I think it was 260 Ocean Parkway. Right. Do you find an apartment?

Of course. Yep, I'm living in there now. Yeah, it's a nice place. I do. I do need to come into my bar sometimes. I do need to come into your bar sometimes. Although I've given up drinking for lent. That's part of the way.

But I could still come. You've non-alcoholic things I could drink, right? Yeah. I made us some soda and bitters. Okay, I'll do that. Are you back now? I am. I'm back.

I'm back from England and I am, yeah, back from Plague Island. Formerly known as Knife Crime Island. No, I'm back. I'm back in New York and I am frigid. Just like the temperatures are aggressive and racist. Just, I've never been so cold. Okay, this is the last, this one's a deep cut. You ready?

Okay. Anybody named Roxanna and Mori? Yes, I do. What? Yes. Was there a film screening? Maybe. What was the movie?

It was, um, geez, one of the great Spike Lee joints. Do the right thing? Do the right thing. Oh my gosh. I know. I totally, it was the summer of 2018. Yes. Yes, I fucking remember that day. Yes, I fucking remember. I don't remember you at all, but I remember that day.

What a... Hey, I'm sorry to be interrupting you at work, especially when you hear exactly why I'm interrupting you at work. Is it fun? It is fun. Good, then it's fine. Interrupt away. I decided I was going to call every person in my phone. and say hello. Hello.

Hello. But you're really great because you're the last friendly face before I get into some pretty murky waters, honestly. Oh, yeah. I mean, I guess I'm curious. Like, how many ex-girlfriends come after me? Well, the problem right after you is it's not so much ex-girlfriends as much as it is people I dated on Bumbled.

five years ago? I hate that for you. Do you have them in there as full names or are they just like, Sarah Bumble, Maddie told? Because I used to do that sometimes. Like if they were lucky, if I saved their number,

it wasn't their real last name. So no, it's, it's, I have Claire Bumble, Cirsten Bumble, Maggie Bumble, Sophia Bumble,

Sydney Bumble. Hi, Courtney. My name's Emmanuel Joe. and I'm a reporter with a podcast called Reply All. I'm like working on a story and doing a weird experiment for it. And I reached your name and realized that whenever we would have met, I didn't really include your last name. I just have Courtney B.

And that could be a lot of people. So anyways, I hope you are well and doing okay. All right. Have a good weekend. Bye. Hello? Hey, Courtney. How you doing?

Hello. I'm good. How are you? I'm good. So I guess do you know how? who I am? Did I show up in your phone as like under a name? No, I didn't have your number saved, but I know who you are. I remember the conversation we had, but I don't know why we exchanged phone numbers. But we were talking about cereal,

and I'm obsessed with cereal, and I guess at one point you were working on cereal or working with cereal? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Right, right. You were, oh, okay. I don't, oh dear, okay. We met at the cookout years ago The Cookout, yes, yes, yes, yes. I remember why we exchanged. So, yeah, I worked for cereal. Like, I co-hosted the third season of that show. I stopped listening after the first season.

Oh, you're fine. A lot of people did. I remember talking at the Cookout and you seemed cool. And so I DM'd you on Twitter, I think. And I was like, oh, we should grab a drink sometime. And you're like, sure, and so you gave me your number. I think that's how I got your number. Oh, okay. Well, you never called. We could have got that. Why didn't you call? I'm, this is so, I did text you.

Oh. I didn't back. No, I think you did. It was weird. I texted you and you were like, hey, what's up? And I was like, not much. And I think I asked what you're doing that weekend or something. And yeah, you, you, you didn't respond. Oh my gosh. Which is fine. Like that's life. You know what I mean?

I promise you I have not been, like, it's just one of those things where I, when you said, why did we change the numbers? I was like, oh, I remember this story actually. Oh my gosh. That's so funny. Well, sorry I like ghosted you, sort of. I mean, that's nice of you to say. I mean, I, this is, I don't know.

Okay, I'll just say this. I don't go to people very often, but I feel like when it's happened, has happened for a reason, which is that I probably wasn't into it, and you probably weren't into it. I don't know. I feel like I'm into a lot of things,

and I would have probably been into getting a drink with you because I remember being fascinated by how a British man lands in Ohio, and we talked about that for a little bit, I think. Um, so I don't know. Uh, we could, you know, my life is a little bit weird right now, but I'm not working. And like, we could get a drink as long as you buy it. I'm down. This is, sorry.

This is this. After the break, 1,400 contacts left to go. Okay. I'm going to start this next day of calls off right. Oh, good morning, Emmanuel. Morning, mommy. How you doing? I'm fine, thanks.

How are you? I'm good. I'm good. Do you have a second to chat? Is it KVeroCorn? Yeah, go ahead. We've done it before. We do it again. I'm calling this morning. I was thinking, oh, but I, you know, we spoke just what the other day? Yeah, yeah. Yes. Yeah. Oh, so I knew something definitely had come up because you wouldn't just be calling me just because, you know.

Whereas if it would be one of your sisters, it would just be a well, this is the morning. cool. No doubt I will get the afternoon of evening call as well. Wait, the girls call you every day, just couple times a day? Yes. I didn't know that. Oh, well, now you know. So, you know, you're slacking. Oh, boy. But don't worry, Manuel. You know, stuff like, you know, you, well, in fact, speaking to your sisters, they too sort of say, oh, we'd never hear from Emmanuel, you know, so like, oh, he's

always busy, blah, blah, blah, blah. So, you know, everybody knows that sort of like, definitely join the working day. There's no chance to get hold of you. So forget that. Yeah, so, you know, everyone has a different expectation of you. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, no.

No, I feel like, I don't know, this whole experience has been really, really quite strange. In a good way, I think, so far, at least. But, well, what's your experience been? I don't know. I feel like, well, one, some people just don't pick up. Right. Which is something that I knew would happen, right? Yes.

But I think as I've been doing this, I think it's been sometimes wearing on me a little because, you know, obviously there are people who you'd reach, you leave a message for and, you know, whenever they see it, they get back to you at some point. Or they just even just say, hey, I saw it and like, you know, I'll give you a call at some point. or I'm busy or just hey, you know what I mean? You know, something. There have been quite a few people from back in the day that you leave a message for and you get nothing, which is fine.

You know, I mean, it could mean any number of things. I might not even be there and will number anymore, blah, la, blah, la. But it's making me go through my mind, my memory. You know what I mean? Oh, and he was thinking, did we, well, last, do we laugh at, though? Did we end things on good terms? Yeah. Or about this sort of person, they never want to hear it from it.

end, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But anyway, I'm sure you've got stuff to be getting on with. Yeah, I got a... I saw this call's gone on longer than you wanted it to, so... What do you mean you saw this call's got on longer, but I wanted it to? Well, obviously, if this is work and you're... You've got to make calls, you've got to zip through them, so...

Yeah, I have a lot more to go. Yeah. So far, I think I'm somewhere in, like, the, like, 300s. How many do you have? How many contacts do you have? 1500. I don't think I'm going to finish. It's just not possible. It will take me years. All right. Well, I'll leave you to it. And well, good luck with the remaining 1200. Thank you, mummy. Okay. Bye, dear. Love you.

Love you. Bye. Your call has been forwarded to an automated voice messaging system. At the tone, please record your message. Hi, Mongra. I have no idea if you remember me. My name's Emmanuel. We matched on Bumble.

I don't know if you remember me. I am the English bloke you met once years and years and years and years ago outside of that bar in Chicago. I was trying to unsuccessfully get a giant love sack. out of one of those um like mini cars what are they called um welcome to verizon wireless the number you dialed has been changed disconnected or is no longer in service okay whoever jenna is that is not a number anymore oh my god i'm so tired okay let's do more let's do more let's do more Hi, is this Denver? Yes, it is.

Hey, Denver, I don't know if you remember me. It's been years, but it's Immanuel from Ohio State. Hey, buddy. Wow, you do remember me. Yes, I do. Do you have a sec to chat? That's fine. What's happened in the last nine years of your life?

Oh, man, that is a loaded question, my friend. So at the time you met me, it was a heavy equipment operator for a landfill. Yeah. And about 2013, they let me go. Oh, no. So I went from that.

What was the disagreement? There's things that I wasn't supposed to run over and I ran over. and I ended up going to a company for construction. Okay. And I've been there since. So, sorry, I almost don't, it's like, it's been so long I don't know where to begin. Like, we met the first night of my college experience. Yes.

I never had a college experience. Yeah, I just remember, like, you would sometimes come around and be like, yo, I'm around. What are you up to? It would be a Saturday or something. And I never had money to go to a football game. So, like, I feel like, you would pick me out from me. go somewhere, eat or whatever. And I don't know.

I enjoyed that just because I was able to, I was still living at home at the time. Right. And making more money than I have ever made before in my life. Right. And I just enjoyed spending it. But to me it was just like, right, like my random pseudo big brother dude. who is not like me at all. Like, I'm like this black English kid.

And, like, you know, he's this guy, like, who is going to drive in the town every once in a mile and be like, yo, I'll take you out. And, like, you would just always be like, oh, I got, I got lunch. I got whatever. I don't know. I always used to appreciate it. But it's funny because when I saw your name in my context and I was going through, I was just like, oh, I never, I never ever asked you back then the question that I actually think. I sometimes wondered, which was like, does he have a lot of friends or are we kind of it? And I always want, like, I don't know, was that year alone?

Was that time in your life? Was it lonely for you? I don't know if it was lonely. Yeah. It was a transition time for me in all honesty, because in school and fresh out of school, I didn't run around with the best kind of people. Right. And to improve my own mental self-esteem, I need to be around people that wanted to better themselves.

Right, right. And that's kind of what I found with you guys. I don't know. I'm just realizing as I talked to you a little bit that, like, I was such a stupid 19-year-old. Like, I think. You probably could tell a story, and I can have six. on top of it with stupidity with I know but I guess also just emotionally stupid like I think after a while those Saturdays of you that felt really fun and great I began to sort of be like oh well Denver's an

adult what does you have to be hanging out with me I'm like just a kid and so I can't believe I did this I remember you call I remember specifically one day you calling and it was like maybe the first time that I just didn't pick up because I was like oh I'm just going to go hang out with my friends and I just like never called ever to make plans with you or anything again. I'm sorry for that. I mean, I guess did you notice when we stopped hanging out? A little bit, but at the same time, I understand the aspect of somebody in their 20s for lack there of the verbiage I need to describe it.

Have you seen COBRA Kai? I haven't seen cobra Kai. Okay, there's one older guy in there that wants to take the kung fu classes with all the other kids. He's like

a teacher in the school and he's running around with a bunch of kids. And I didn't really see it that way. It was an interesting perspective of what you guys seen in me. Just, oh, maybe

kind of lonely, not, couldn't make friends back home kind of mantra, which I mean, it wasn't I couldn't make friends. It was a new beginning for me. We were all adults in just tasting the first taste of freedom. Totally. Totally. One thing I'm curious about, I realized when I called I had to get a new phone number the last time since the last time I spoke to you. When I said it was Immanuel, what was the first thing that came to mind? Stories, just different times when we hung out. Like the time that for some reason out of nowhere said that bad word that we don't say. and how bad he felt.

And he had no reason. And to this day, I can't figure out why. It just came out. And I don't know if it's our area or what have you, because he doesn't ever say that. Wait, said the N word? Yeah. You don't remember that?

I don't remember that. It was just, it was something said in passing. he just shriveled up and felt like death the rest of the day. I have so, I, it's, sorry, that is so, I do not remember that. Wow, but I do remember meeting you guys for the first time and being like, these are the sorts of people that I feel like I've been brought up to believe are going to be racist. And in my experience, are kind of, you know what I mean?

Yeah, and I wish you wouldn't. I mean, I thought of you as one of the guys. Like, man. And I remember being so like, wow, okay, like these folks from this small town, like, I am the worst. You know what I mean? I'm totally painting these people with such a broad brush. These folks are so nice, whatever. And I don't, I'm honestly thinking back to that.

I kind of remember that incident at all. I must have like, I must have honestly felt so. kind of like weirded out and maybe betrayed by the whole thing but I was just like you know what it's easier if I just forget about it yeah because I didn't want to think about like I don't I don't remember this but I imagine that I wouldn't have want to thought about why it was so random like that you know yeah I don't know I mean I think there was a stage in in like I think my sophomore year of college where, you know, I think I, my freshman year I had been so open with people, you know? Yeah. And then I think by the time I go to my sophomore year, I was sort of like already

tightening up. Because I don't remember that one, but, you know, I remember other small little things, you know, like that in college, you know, just because you have all these kids from all these different places who didn't grow up with black people. Just didn't. And so I think I probably just naturally went to the spaces where like yeah, I felt more comfortable, you know. Yeah. Wow. Sorry, you've made me think about a lot. A lot of things I haven't thought about in a very long time.

Is that a good thing to assess or is it bad memories coming up? I mean, it's who I am, right? It's my life. Yeah. I don't know. I think I lived my life and I have this memory of it. But other people, it's not like I'm some main character of some movie. Like, everyone has their own vantage point and what they see that rounds out the picture. Next time you call, I might not pick up right away, but I promise I won't not just call back without any explanation again.

Okay. Well, it's been a really refreshing conversation for me as well. I've appreciated it deeply. Yeah, of course, man. And, yeah, I hope you have a good rest of your day. Hey, you too. Talk to you later. Manuel, how you doing?

How you doing, Khalid? So good to hear from you. I know, it's so good to talk. It's been so long, man. I've had some weird calls, bro. Oh, man. I wish I could hear this. I mean, I talk to a guy who at first I thought was really,

at first I thought it was like a really good call. And I guess it kind of was in some ways. It was good to talk to him, you know? Yeah. but then he reminded me of this thing that I had I still don't really remember but like kind of constructed it for me which is that basically

that mutual friend had used the N-word once in front of me and I just I don't know I must have repressed it this gets me hot right now back on line yeah but anyways I don't want to sit I mean I'm

this gets me hot no like There's so many moments, like I also have one good friend who dropped it before. Like, we were good friends, man. But as soon as that happened, as soon as those like words came out of his mouth, it just like, it kind of like just destroyed everything. Yeah, bro. You know, it's like you don't, you don't see, like you don't see each other the same anymore. Yeah.

What? Cause it was like, like, how dare you? Like, you know this stuff. You know, but anyways. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll talk more if other people would do some therapy about it. But I did not call you to talk about white people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But anyways, how are you, bro?

We haven't really talked in a couple of years. Life has been good, man. Oh, I am. I'm getting married this summer, man. What? I'm getting married to summer. That's wild. Yeah, man.

really sweet girl, dude, who I've like been dating for two years. And I'm about to do this weird thing where I never thought I'd move back to Minneapolis, but that's why I'm moving back to after our wedding. And I never knew when I came back home, I never, ever knew that I loved Somali food as much as I do. Wait, really? Yeah, man. But you grew up with Somali food?

I grew up. Exactly. Now all like, like every single day. Like, no joke. Like, I have some other food. I have to have some other food. And the amazing thing is, like, you know, I'm staying with my mom. And she's always cooking, man.

And, uh, loki, I'm kind of happy. Like, I gained weight, but I'm so okay with it. It's crazy. Because I'm eating the food I like and I'm with the people I like. That's what's that. You know? I don't know. It just sounds like you've reconnected with your family.

And I love that so much. I mean, that makes sense because I remember, right, like you and your family have been through a lot together. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Like, I don't even know over places you've lived. You were in Saudi Arabia for a bit.

Yeah, I was born in Saudi Arabia. I was a refugee in Egypt up until I was like seven or eight. And then we finally got the call to go to the States, you know, under two years, man. Under two years, like our application went through. we were on a plane to the States. Wow. And we were actually talking about this with my mom not long ago.

Man, my mom traveled with under $300 when we came to the States. Wow. And I'm like, how, like, how did we survive? Like, how did we survive, you know? Thankfully, though, you know, strangers and people in the community were like just chipping in. Yeah. It's like, my first grade teacher, Miss Riley, because I, I was mute for like a week or two when I started school.

And I remember her. She like called my mom out of concern. And that weekend, we lived in a one-bedroom apartment, bro, across a gas station on Bloomington Avenue, Minneapolis. I remember this place to this day. Our property manager brought us a VCR and two tapes. One was rush hour. And the other one was Walker, like Texas Ranger, from back in the day. Yeah, yeah.

And I went back to school that weekend. All I kept repeating was that line from rush hour. Do you understand the words coming out of my mouth? You know, Miss Riley was frantic. She was just so happy, man. She was like, oh, my gosh, she's speaking. And then from, like, you know, like after school, she'd sometimes, like, just take me to the zoo or to play

or sometimes even to her house to, like, watch different cartoons. in movies. Like, she put in such extra effort for me to, like, learn English, you know? Yeah. She was wonderful, dude. Miss Riley. Plyzerberry Elementary School. First and second grade teacher.

Look, been trying to reconnect with, man, but I just don't know where to start. But I know how to start, like, you don't know how to reach her? Yeah. You know, I tried, I called the school district in Minneapolis. They couldn't get me in touch with her. I even got like my transcript from the, from fucking first, second grade or whatever. Really? Yeah, man, just so I can get like the full name and see if she has like a LinkedIn or something or something random.

Wow. Thanks for telling me about her, man. Yeah, dude. This is a great conversation. I appreciate you calling, man. I'm going to text to you some stuff about the wedding. I would love to come to your wedding. You do not have to invite me now just because you told me you're getting married.

You know that, right. It doesn't matter, bro. Like sometimes I think people put so much pressure on friendships, but also like those friendships where like people speak in like those long spurts once in a while. Yeah. Or also feel like we would be really good friends if we talked all the time? Or do you feel like part of the reason why we're so close is because we talk once every two years and do this big dump? I think the latter because it's working. Hello?

Oh, hello. Can you hear me? I can. I can. Miss Riley, like, I have someone here for you. Uh-huh. Uh, Kali, do you want to say hello? Hey.

Hi, how are you? I'm doing good. How you doing? It's so good to talk to you. I've been looking for you for so long. Oh, that's amazing. It's such a blessing to me just to reconnect. I think I've been teaching 32 years.

And this year has been so, so hard. Yesterday there was a big fight at school. There was a big fight at school with a bunch of kids. I just had to take a day off just to chill because it's been so stressful. And so I was feeling like such a terrible teacher and such a terrible, you know, when you can just get down on yourself. Yeah. So it just really made my day to have a manual reach me. Wow.

And I have a, I have a class picture. And I have a little picture of you smiling and you're missing your bottom tooth in the middle. And you always, your smile was so bright. Your eyes just kind of squinted up. And, yeah, I remember. I think one time taking to like a little festival at the nearby park over here. You know, and now that I'm remembering your apartment, because there was an essay right off. Today's episode of Reply All was produced by Kim Nadeefame Pietasser and Sam Gubauer.

It was edited by Damiana Markedi and Anna Foley, with additional editing help from Tim Howard, Ashley Ford, and Soraya Perry, the artist whose work inspired this piece you just heard. We'll leave a link to her website where you can see more of her work as a filmmaker, musician, and visual artist. in our show notes. This episode also wouldn't have happened without the rest of a reply or production team, Thea Benin, Lisa Wang, Sonia Dazzani, and Bephyl Hoppe.

The show is hosted by Alex Goldman and me, Emmanuel Jochi. This episode was mixed by Wit Kwan with fact-checking by Isabel Christo and music and sound design by Luke Williams. Additional music by the mysterious brake master cylinder and Mariana Romano. Special thanks this week to Bailey

at Behenopin County Library in Minneapolis, Minnesota, Joelle Fonsois, Syed Tijon Thomas, Pam Costain, Rayan Hermansi, Aaron Edwards, and everyone who picked up my call. Thank you so much for listening, folks. We'll see you in a couple of weeks.