Reply All - Introducing: Resistance

Episode Date: October 22, 2020

Faced with an impossible choice, one man goes live on instagram. Saidu Tejan Thomas Jr. shares a story from his new podcast, Resistance. Find more episodes of Resistance here: https://open.spotify.com/show/02JzQLXpqTtViFUGQjRkj3?si=PvQrGlB7QEuf0AcgsGklHg&utm_source=copy-link To get more information about the show, follow the show's Instagram page: @resistanceshow. You can also follow Saidu on Twitter @SaiduTTJ.  If you or someone you know is feeling depressed or just needing to talk to someone, call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 1-800-273-8255. Find more resources here: https://afsp.org/suicide-prevention-resources Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey guys, just a warning before we get started. There's a moment in today's show where we reference a traumatic event related to suicidal ideation. If you're feeling depressed or want to talk to someone, just know one resource you can call is the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 1-800-273-8255. Once again, that's 1-800-273-8-2-55. Also, if these subjects are hard for you to listen to, you might want to skip this one. Okay, here's the show. From Gimlet, this is Reply All.

I'm your manor-jerk. And I'm joined in the studio today by the one and only Saeed Tijon Thomas. Hey, Sayyne. How you doing? Good, man, good, good, good. I'm getting by, chilling, you know. Getting by. So, Saeed is one of my best friends, but he's also a fantastic producer here at Gimlet. He's reached a lot of interesting shows like conviction or uncivil. But the reason that we're talking here today, right, Saeed, is, because you're the host of a new show at Gimlet about the ongoing Black Lives Matter protests,

and it's called Resistance. Yeah, so it's a show about people refusing to accept things as they are, right? Like, that's a tagline for it. But more specifically, it's a show about black and brown people fighting for some kind of change, right? Yeah. Before I started working on it, I never knew I would be working on something like this. I never saw myself working on something like this. I just want to say that, and I say this with love because I'm your friend,

and I will totally explain what I mean by this, but, like, I did not see you working on this show. I have to say, and the reason I say that is because this, of course, is a show about the protest movement. Uh-huh. And I don't know, dude, I'm just thinking back to, like, when the George Floyd protest first began, right? Do you remember that weekend?

Uh-huh. Because I remember I tried to talk to you about what was going on, and you want an absolutely no part of it. Like, you did not want to talk about the protest movement, at all. Yeah. I was like, actually, I'm kind of depressed right now with everything that was happening in the world, like with black people getting killed. I just felt like I needed to make like a conscious decision to disengage and take some time for myself and like just not touch any of this shit because it's like, it's too much. Yeah. You basically just stopped like looking at anything.

Yeah, I had deleted Twitter off my phone. And I wasn't watching anything. I wasn't really reading anything. Which, you know, like that made sense to me. because you were protecting yourself. But I also just remember thinking it was going to be futile. Because we were talking about what work was going to be like that week. And I just remember realizing, oh, my God, there's about to be a meeting tomorrow, our majority white workplace in which we're going to have to have ideas for stories. And also, at the same time, probably have to attend meetings

and talk about everything that's been going on with all of our colleagues. And I just remember I was just like, that is not something I want to do. Yeah, I was also dreading that. I wasn't even dreading that at me. I was just like, that meeting is going to be stupid. Yeah, which is why I feel like the next time we talk after that, I was like kind of surprised because you called me and we're like, hey, so I'm going to start a show that is essentially going to be about the protest movement every week. And I was like, why, how did you go from, from, Emmanuel, I'm not going to talk about this at all really to that.

Yeah, I mean, after a while I read downloaded Twitter. And I remember just seeing like these headlines about, uh, some of the largest protests in the country were being led by like teenage girls or like people in their early 20s. And that was interesting to me. That was super interesting to me because that was around the age when I protested for the first time ever in my life. like I feel like I see myself a little bit in this like let's I kind of want to see what's going on over here Yeah let me just say I feel like what's so special about resistance is

Like we get to see you make this transition Like from not wanting to talk about any of this To being so inside of this movement in an incredibly intimate way Like yeah you're with people when they're protesting But you're also with them like long after the cameras have left You're in their homes you're in their favorite bars You're chronicling people making all of these life-changing decisions, feeling all of these conflicting emotions of joy,

of triumph, frustration. You know, you're calling people basically as they try to meet the magnitude of this moment with every fiber of their being. Yeah. And it's, I don't know, it's really special. And so today, on Replyul, we're going to feature one of these stories. It's one that's really stuck with me since I first heard it. Saeed, do you want to take it from here?

I got you. So this year, I've been following this activist collection. Warriors in the Garden. They're mostly black and brown folks in their 20s who got together during the George Floyd protest this summer. And since then, they've been grinding in New York City. For the past five months, you couldn't really go to a protest without seeing a warrior.

And that's because at one point they were marching every single day. And I had to be real with myself. There was no way I was going to keep up. After their events, I'm always so physically and emotionally drained that I usually just fall asleep on the ride home. And it always takes me a couple days to get myself back together again. But before I can even fully recover, I see a post for another protest against police brutality, another vigil honoring black woman, another plan to keep the streets full and the people fighting.

The warriors like to say, we've been out here, and that's a fact. But I always wonder, how are they doing this? How have they been able to keep going so hard all summer? So I was talking to one of the warriors about this. His name's Derek Ingram. Sometimes he goes by DREC. And his answer was simple. When shit gets to be a little too much, they drink.

In Lower East Side, there's this spot that has like $5 margaritas, but they overpour. Derek says on their nights off, they like to get together, find a nice little bar, and just kick it with a few drinks. And he's telling me about this one night, in August, when they had endless cheap tequila. I had, like, a couple shots, and I had, like, two or three of those, and I was slammed. Slammed. Had it fun. Like, we were just, like, hanging out outside. Like, we were having a blast.

They danced. They tried not to talk politics. They failed. But the point is, they got to finally chill for once. Derek told me that he drank so much that night that when he got home, he tried to cook a whole steak at three in the morning, which, who can't relate? And he didn't end up going to bed until around four. but he couldn't really enjoy his sleep because around 7 in the morning, he wakes up.

What do you hear at 7.15? I knocked at the door, boom, boom, boom. Derek drags himself out of bed to go see who it is. I have, like, the chain, the deadbolt chain on. I look through my peephole, short white guy. He asked, like, the address, and I tell him my address. And then he asked my name, and I told him my name. And he was like, I have a warrant for your arrest.

The whole summer, Derek's been. protesting alongside the rest of the warriors. They've marched together, they've partied together, and they've poured milk onto each other's pepper-sprayed eyes. And all through that, Derek's seen friends get arrested, and he's seen them beaten by cops. But on today's episode, Derek finds out what it's like when the full force of the NYPD comes right to your front door. When there's no one to link arms with, no one to hide behind when things get violent,

what is it like when it's just you? against the largest police department in the country. From Gimlet, I'm Saeed T. John Thomas Jr. And this is Resistance, a show about refusing to accept things as they are, even with the hangover. So at 7 a.m., and there's a cop at Derek's door. And he was like, I have a warrant for your arrest. And I was like, okay, slide it under the door.

Derek looks down at the floor for the warrant, but he doesn't see anything. The cop just keeps saying he's there to arrest him. I was hungover, I was fed up, and I'm like, I am not dealing with this right now. Maybe they'll just go away. So I went back in bed, called Kiara. I was the first person he actually called. That's Keira Williams, another member of Warriors in the Garden. She was out with Derek the night before.

To have a hangover and deal with what the situation was, was like, are you dead ass right now? I told Derek in that moment, tell everyone in a group right now, because this is serious. I woke up because my phone was going off. Buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz. Bing, Bing, Bing, Bing, Bing. I was like, wait, what's happening? They're at his crib. You know, when you hear about the police showing up at a black person's door,

you know, you think they're there to kill. Some of the warriors start checking their own windows, and they start looking through peepholes to see if the cops are at their houses too. I was scared for him. I was scared for myself. Aren't they coming to my house next? Like, they're going to knock on my door? Like, how's this going to end?

When the rest of the warriors don't see cops at their doors, They start strategizing about how to help Derek. Some of them want to head to his apartment ASAP. But others say, nah, what if the cops are expecting us to do that? And once we show up, they just arrest everybody. Then Chi, from the last episode, comes up with another idea. Chee instantly was like, go live, go live, go live, go live. Everybody said, go live.

Document that shit. I mean, if they're banging on your door lying about a warrant, people need to see it. Derek agrees. So he logs into the war. his Instagram account, which has a following of over 40,000 people. Then he goes live. He's sitting down in his living room, right next to his front door,

and he's wearing the same clothes he wore the night before, a leather baseball cap, a navy blue button down, and a silver ring that shines whenever he touches his face, trying to figure out what to do. I don't know what the fuck is going on. I, like, honestly, I have no idea what I did. So, like, this is crazy. He gets on live, and, you know, you could just see the stress and panic on his face.

What did it look like? Fear? I live by myself. This is scary. Time to start your day. That's Alexa, sorry. Good morning. August is National Peach Month.

That's Alexa. The same. You're a real peach. Comes from the tradition of giving a peach to someone you like. Try it out with a friend. It's true to be warm and fuzzies. Alexa. Thank you.

Fuck. Derek's Alexa still thinks it's a normal Friday. And besides the cop at his door, it could have been a normal Friday. His plan was to sleep in, then spend the rest of the day cleaning his apartment. I was so mad that, like, I was on fucking live, felt like my apartment was dirty. Like, I had a sink full of dishes. I smelled like fucking tequila. It's taken Derek a minute to realize that the things that would normally

matter on a Friday morning after a night of drinking, don't really mean shit right now. But the people watching on live already get that. They're not worried about his dirty dishes. They're worried about the cop at his door. In the comments, his friends tell him to go back to the door and ask for the warrant. Officer? Yes, sir. What's going on? Did you have the warrant? There's probable cause to arrest you right now. What's the probable cause, sir? That was developed by a detective from the time.

That's part of his investigation. He said, oh, I don't have a warrant, but I have probable calls. And I was like, damn it, here we go. Is there a reason they haven't called me about this investigation? Is it active? It's active, yes. So how? The cop says, yes, it's active.

It's for an assault. But Derek has no idea what he's talking about. Okay. That's wide in hand. To detain me? You would be arrested, yes. How am I arrested if it's an ongoing investigation? and I haven't been charged.

Well, if you get charged, you have to be a rescue. Okay. So there's that. Sitting back down in front of the camera, Derek takes the cap off a gallon of water and starts chugging it. Derek was sitting at his table looking stressed. This is Jay, another warrior. He's 46 years old, and he's been protesting since before some of the other members were born. And he usually just stays out the way so the younger folks can lead.

But the second he sees Derek in trouble, he knows he has to step in. It sounded like people were banging on his door. That was all I had to see. At that point, I shut off my phone, and I think I washed up really quickly, just put on whatever I had on, and got on a city bike and went up there. And when Jay shows up, he sees that there are way more cops outside than just the one that Derek was talking to. I got there, and I was watching the gentlemen's in the suits coming in and out,

in and out of the building. The uniformed officers had not gotten out of their police vehicle. yet. It was just plain clothes, detectives, and maybe people from the Warrant Squad who were in those unmarked minivans. Jay pulls out his phone, and in the most obvious way he can, he starts filming. And then before you know it, more police officers were showing up and more cars and more suits were showing up and people in military gear. Jay wants the cops to know that someone is there to watch. what they're doing, and he's sending his videos to the group chat. Inside, Derek's looking through his peephole.

What the fuck? They came back and they're like hiding down my hallway, and then I looked out my window and like, there was like officers right up there. Jesus curse. Right across from his apartment, there was an officer in a window of staring right back at him. They were surrounding him.

Literally, they had a black officer at my, uh, Fire Escape? Like, bro, I'm black, you black, come on. Like, I'll make sure nothing happens to you. And I'm like, yeah, type shit. And then at another point he came back and was like, come on, Dee, come on. I got a pee, let me in. What?

He was like, come on, man. He was calling you Dee. Yeah, like, we have some kind of, like, rapport. Like, he was trying to build rapport. And how were you reacting to that? Not at all. I wasn't. I had too much going on.

I couldn't even process their, like, intimidation tactics. And I thought the black thing was kind of funny. I was like, are you really think I'm that dumb that I'm going to, come on, come piss, yeah. We're homies. Yeah, like, I got you. At this point, Derek realizes that his parents don't even know what's going on. So he calls his dad. FaceTime my dad because he doesn't know how to use IG.

His first reaction was called a copse. I was like, are you serious right now? I was like, you want me to call the police on the police? What are they going to do? Like, he was dead ass. He was like, no, like, bring a captain out. I was like, no, that's not going to work, man. Oh, man, that's really interesting because, like...

My parents are... But, like, that's what parents tell you to do. You know what I'm saying? Like, wait, something bad's happening? Call the cops. I'm like, yep, there's... And I'm showing my dad, like, yep, there's three out of my window right now, one of my balcony, a couple of the building across the street.

He's like, oh, my God. God. So y'all, officers in the hallway, officers with guns. Officer in empty apartments in the building across from me, they're banging on my door. They're literally peeking in my curtains. I had to put up a sheet. Like, there's over 30 officers here. I didn't know what to do at that point.

So I felt like I can get rid of with bullets if I open this fucking door. But I was thinking about, fuck it. put my body on the line, it was going to make a difference. Like, I'm just open this door, if they fuck me up. Like, that was a thought, too. Like, the thought, the thought of dying for the cause. Or getting hurt was definitely a thought briefly. Wow.

Where do you think that came from? Thadius. Thadius Macarrel was Derek's childhood friend. They grew up together in St. Louis, and they would run around church camp playing pranks together, especially on girls. Derek tells me that Thaddeus was such a goofy kid. he would blow snobbles with his nose,

which made everyone laugh and disgusted at the same time. He would do that all the time, like, in front of girls we thought were attractive. He was doing bugger bubbles to girls in middle school. Derek and Thaddeus lost touch for a while, but linked up years later after high school. It was 2014, the same year Michael Brown was killed by police, in a suburb not too far from where they grew up. Derek says Thaddeus wasn't really goofy anymore.

Now when he and Derek got together, it wasn't to pull pranks. It was to protest. We went to protest together. I remember seeing those huge, like, military trucks driving down streets. And it was really bizarre because this was my home. I knew Ferguson. It's black and middle class. And to see tear gas and smoke and trucks and alarms going off was insane.

And Thaddeus was with me there the whole time. Unfortunately, he was struggling with, like, mental illness. A year after the Ferguson protests, in 2015, Thaddeus was at home when he started having an episode. He locked himself in his house with a knife. And so Thadius' mom did what Derek's dad had suggested. She called the cops. After a long standoff, Thadius opened the door. And he came storming outside.

and he was shot several times, riddled with bullets. And that's how I felt like I felt like I was barricaded in here. And if I surrendered, I could have met that same fate. So, yeah, that's why I thought of him. Coming up after the break, a plan to save Derek. What's good, y'all? Welcome back. It's been roughly four hours since the police all. officer showed up at Derek's door claiming he had a warrant for his arrest.

And since then, they still haven't shown him a warrant. They've just been knocking and trying to make him come out so they can arrest him. And a pretty scary scene has started to form outside his apartment building. Patrol cars and vans have pulled up. A chopper is hovering overhead. And there's around 30 officers surrounding Derek's building in Hell's Kitchen. The lawyer's calling me. Speaking.

Inside, Derek's on the phone. with a lawyer. She tells him that since the police don't have a warrant, you can ask them to leave. So he goes back to the door. Officers, can you return once you have a warrant or are you just going to stay here? Because I don't think that's an option, right? We're going to stay here right now. For why? You don't have a warrant? You have other people working on a warrant?

You have people working on a warrant? Okay, but until you have a warrant, you don't have a right to be here. You have a right to be here? This isn't a public space. Yeah, it's not a public space. and you're trying to intimidate me and stand outside of my door. Excuse me? Okay.

So why don't you just return until you have a warrant? At this point, Derek doesn't even know why they want a warrant, or why so many of them have shown up in the first place. All they've told them is that it's for an assault. He tells his lawyer he thinks he's just being targeted for filing complaints against police officers after a protest a few weeks earlier. And this is all a result of me filing CCRB complaints

This is all that is Because I've never put my I've never threatened anybody Never put my hands on anybody And they want me to surrender Do you think I'm really going to surrender With 50 cops here? Are you crazy? I'm not about to get shot

There might have been Helicops closing in on Derek But there were tons of people watching him on Instagram too And at this point A lot of them had seen enough And they decided it was time to make a move Chi was one of those people

He caught the very first train he could from Brooklyn to Manhattan. It was right in between High Street and Fulton Street and that's like a from Brooklyn to the city on the A train. From where Chi is, it takes about 40 minutes to get to Derek's apartment. And for 40 minutes,

Chi is glued to his phone, trying to make sure he doesn't miss a moment of Derek's live. But he can only watch it when he's docked at a station and there's cell signal. Every time the train pulls off into the tunnel again, She loses signal and the feed cuts out. I thought like each time I was in the tunnel that that was like the moment that they were gonna break through his door and like do something to him The knocking was getting like crazier like they were increasing the the frequency of it and the noise and the strength and everything

Why do you think hostage negotiation is here hostage negotiation like I'm holding it's crazy. It's getting crazy They're peeking into my apartment this is fucking crazy. I got off the train and was running. On the way there, Chi gets a call from another warrior, who tells him that Derek's still inside, but they're not letting anyone near the building. In fact, the street's been blocked off on both sides, but Chi still wants to get close. So he comes up with a plan. Chee stops at a bodega and buys a jug of milk. When he gets to Derek's block, he walks up to one of the cops at the barricade. I said, what's going on here? They're like, there's a,

incident over here where closing the street off. I was like, I'm subletting at like 146, like right over there. I have my milk. I don't want it to get spoiled. They were like, sorry, sir, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then I like drop my milk. The plan fails. But across the street from Derek's apartment, a small group of protesters have gathered in a park.

It's not exactly as close as Chi would like to be, but it's within shouting distance of Derek. Chi runs over there. And he starts getting updates on what they've seen so far. Here's one of the people in the park, John Acosta. What I saw that kind of baffled me that let me know that, oh shit, they're treating him like a terrorist. Was when I seen the canines. When I seen the dogs, I said, yo, they got him like he's a fucking terrorist. I remember seeing police officers on the roof. Remember seeing the helicopters

in the sky. This is Marvin Williams, another warrior. I just remember seeing more officers keep coming, more officers keep coming, more officers keep coming. No one knows why they're there. As Derek's friends try to figure out how they can help, they keep their eyes on the cops outside. Back inside, Derek tries to distract himself from what's going on with the perfect song for this moment. Let's play some pop smoke.

How about that? Pop smoke sound good. Do I feel safe? No, ma'am. But I'll be okay. Alexa, connect to the Bluetooth. Searching. Oh, pop smoke at ears.

Derek hits a little shimmy in his chair. And he still looks very stressed, but there's a slight smile on his face now. Like he's really trying his best to keep it altogether. But things just keep falling apart. Every time I try to make an outgoing call is going to the police department. With some sketch stuff going on. Wait, what? Every time I made an outgoing call and called and went to the police department,

and then my phone completely just froze on the home screen and it wouldn't work. My phone is not working. They're literally fucking, hey, is this serious right now? Like, my phone, my Wi-Fi is no longer, like, working well. So I don't know what the fuck that was about. It was scary. Other warriors have told me before that they're worried about the police hacking into their phones. But to be honest, I thought they were just being kind of intense about the whole thing.

Then we talked to an expert, and he told us it's entirely possible that while the cops were at Derek's house, they could have tapped into his phone, using something called a stingray. The stingray is a device that sends out a cell tower signal throughout a certain area, and phones connect to the signal, and from there, cops can access private information you have stored on your phone.

And it's highly likely they can pull your messages, your photos, and your contacts. When we contacted them, the NYPD didn't confirm or deny using anything like a stingray at Derricks, but they wouldn't even be able to tell us if they did, because in order to get this ex-military tech from the federal government, the NYPD has to sign hella NDAs.

Derek was still getting some calls, and he was broadcasting live on his iPad, but it was really starting to feel like the cops were closing in on him. There's dogs. There's dogs. There's dogs. I hear dogs barking. They literally cover my people.

They had a battering ram, so all of this stuff on my wall is falling. I hear that, Bop, bop, bop. You're just trying to get you to come outside. Derek, do you understand what I'm saying? Bro, this is... No hostility.

You're the one being hostile right now. I'm not being hostile. I'm calm. I'm calm. I'm very calm, y'all. I am not being hostile. He called me hostile. I am calm.

I am chill. Hey, Derek, I think I lost you. Like, they were reading shit off my social media, and it was, like, trying to... make me emotional. Derek says the cop started bringing up his grandma, the woman who would cook him plantains and collard greens for his birthday, who would show up to surprise him at school to make him feel special.

The woman who always told him she'd see him in the morning if it's God's will. She passed away a few years ago. Her name was Dolores. And they were like, what would Dolores think? And then at another point, and this was caught on camera, they were like, Why don't you be the warrior that you're staying in the war? Why don't you?

Why don't you be the warrior you say you are? It seemed like the cops were willing to do just about anything to get Derek to come out. And they're allowed to do just about anything. Bang on his door for hours, lie to him, mock him, even bring up his dead grandmother. But no matter how much shit they pull, Derek only has two options. Stay inside or open the door. And as they ramp up the pressure, it's getting harder and harder to know which one to choose. Derek gets back on the phone with one of his lawyers.

I'm trying to buy you time here. Okay. He says ultimately Derek has to make the decision. There's a lot of... What I said, Derek? Derek, could you acknowledge me, please? I'm treating you like a gentleman. Oh, okay.

I'm so overwhelmed. I'm like, I'm sorry. I just want to get this over with. I'm like, it's too much. It's too much. I'm here. One wrong move, they will probably shoot him down. This is Kiara again.

She's watching on live, and she can see Derek pacing back and forth. She knows that's what he does when he's anxious, and she's worried he's ready to give in. He was on the phone with four different lawyers at the time, and two of them are like, surrender, surrender. So she calls them up. She tells them, I feel like the cops are trying to scare you to come out. I said, Derek, this is what we are fighting against, surrendering is giving them that power. And I was like, what? what are we fighting for if you surrender?

To Kiara, opening the door is not really an option. The way she sees it, the NYPD is trying to send a message. The fact that the cops showed up at one of their doors at 7 in the morning in full force without a warrant, it's not just about scaring Derek. It's to intimidate all protesters. She says to him, this is what we are fighting against. And if you surrender, we are letting them win. outside, the warriors and their supporters are ramping up the fight.

Here's Chi. If there was a reason for his arrest, they would have arrested him by now. It's been five hours. Where's the warrant? Where's the warrant? Like, what the hell are you? It's what? Noon?

You've been here since seven? He's saying you have a warrant and you're not in his apartment yet? There's something deeply wrong with that. They are struggling to get the warrant. This is a waste of time. taxpayer dollars. It's insane how far they go. They are such shitty people. This is so fucked up. This is so fucked. Where's your warrant?

And then at one point, like, I could hear my friends, I could hear some of the protesters chanting from my windows. Where's the warrant? Where's your warrant? Where's your warrant? And it was cheap. And that just, like, encouraged me. This is a waste of money. This is a waste of taxpayer dollars. Absolutely insane.

Knowing that his friends were outside supporting him and seeing all the people on live, Derek kind of started to feel safe. I felt protected because there were so many eyes on me. I felt like they're not going to kill me on live. They might hurt me. They might do some fucked up shit, but I feel protected.

Like, that's how I felt. I know. Cops kill people in front of an audience all the time. And maybe thinking that you're safe, just because your friends are outside and there's people watching on Instagram live, maybe that's an irrational thought

for someone who's been protesting police brutality all summer. But what was Derek supposed to do? There was nothing rational about dogs at his door, or the chopper overhead, or his street being blocked off. The first thing that made sense to Derek all day was hearing his friend's voices through his window.

He had to trust that that would keep him safe. So Derek starts getting ready. Your mom tells you you can't go to the hospital or jail with, like, dirty underwear. I brushed my teeth, took a bath, changed clothes. Like, I was like, I'm going to jail. He heads for the door. I literally had my hands on the door and I see a message says, don't open it, D.WREC, don't.

It's a trick. And I'm thinking, they're just telling me that so I don't open the door. So I'm still probably going to open the door. And then, like, no. I hear cheering outside. I was like, oh shit. Like, they are leaving, so I didn't open the door. And you see all these hearts going up on the live.

And then I hear, boom. I'm like, oh my God, hello? It's John, Derek. Let me to fuck in, bro. And I'm like, oh, I don't know if they, like, fucking holding John Hossis trying to manipulate me and they recorded his voice. I ran right up. I ran up to see Derek.

I was to make sure he was good. I was happy as fuck. John came, sweating, screaming. He asked if I needed anything, and at the time, I was in shock. He was still a little worried, because there was still a motherfucker in the window, just watching. I'm like, I'm like, I was rubbing my balls in his face. You want to see something I got something I got something for you? I'm rubbing my balls and shit, doing stupid shit.

I said, I do. Maybe I antagonize these motherfuckers. I was like, please check my roof and just look around my building. Like, I don't know if they're still here. Went to the roof. We checked the roof. The roof was cleared. With no warning, no eye.

No obvious reason, and almost as suddenly as they had shown up, the cops packed up their shit and bounced. Just like that, after more than five hours. You know, like seeing that moment that they left with no explanation, you could see the shame in their faces. There's a part in the Matrix where everyone thinks, like, oh man, this impending doom is coming. And so they're just like gathered around.

And before you know it, they realize, oh, we're saved. You know, everything is going to be okay. And they start, like, dancing. And it's like raining on them. And they're dancing. And people are just feeling themselves. And you can see the souls and the passion. And that's what it felt like.

I have not seen that Matrix movie Jay is talking about. It's got to be one of the sequels. But I understand what he's getting at. The people on the lives, and the people on the streets, they needed this win. It had been over two months of protesting in New York. And the last time they had a major victory was all the way back in June at the height of the protests

when Governor Andrew Cuomo repealed 50A, making police disciplinary records open to the public for the first time in nearly 40 years. But since then, protesters haven't really gotten much else. They were hoping for a billion-dollar cut to the NYPD's budget, but it didn't really happen in the way they wanted it. They were calling for an end to qualified immunity to make it easier for people to sue cops, but they weren't heard.

Some of the warriors told me that they were starting to have doubts about what protesting can actually change. But then, on a random Friday morning in August, outside an apartment building in Hell's Kitchen, a small group of them got together to stage a protest for one of their own, not knowing if this too would turn out to be another loss. Five hours later, the cops drive off empty hands. and their friend walks out into their arms. It gave them hope again. I don't think anybody expects chanting to solve anything immediately.

But in this moment, it actually did, right? Like, it actually had a direct, immediate result that you saw right there. And that must have felt like really satisfying. Yeah, it was really satisfying. In a summer of L's and pain and violence, it was a win, you know what I mean? And you don't get a lot of wins. We still don't know why they had to fight this fight in the first place

and why the NYPD went all out for this one guy. They won't tell us why. But Derek and his lawyer decided that the best thing he could do was just turn himself in. They figured it would be safer. That way, they wouldn't have to worry about if or when the cops might turn up again and what would happen if they did. So the next day, he went with his lawyer to,

the precinct. Derek was charged with assault of a police officer for allegedly shouting into a cop's ear with a megaphone at a protest. They also charged him with obstructing governmental administration, which basically means getting in the way of a cop doing their job. At first he was facing up to seven years in prison, but at a recent hearing, one of the charges was downgraded. The prosecutor did leave the door open, though, to bumping the charges back up again. Derek's lawyer thinks it's just more intimidation tactics to keep him from protesting. But because of everything that happened,

Derek has even more support than before, from Black Lives Matter and Amnesty International and a whole bunch of celebrities who saw him on live. It seems like what happened was like they tried to intimidate you and it didn't work. What it actually did was make you

even more entrenched in the movement and made you a bigger. They gave us leverage to literally bring attention to what they did, which was abusing power, misappropriating funds, and intimidating, unarmed black people. Literally, that's what this whole movement is about. And that's what they did to me publicly. In Hell's Kitchen in Manhattan, it made them look savage.

Saeed Teesan Thomas Jr. He's the host of a new show, Resistance, that I am very much a fan of. You can find this story and others like it right now on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. Tune in on October 28th to hear their next episode. Trust me, I've heard it. You do not want to miss it. Find out more about the show on their Instagram page at Resistance Show.

Reply All is hosted by PJ Vote, Alex Goldman and me, Emmanuel Jochi. Our show is produced by Shufu Pina Menini, Thea Benin, Damiano Marquetti, Anna Foley, Jessica Young and Lisa Wang. Our intern is Mohini Magalka. Our executive producer is Tim Howard. We're mixed by Wit Kwan, theme song and original music by The Mysterious Breakmaster Cylmaster Cylinder. The story you heard today was produced by Bethel Habte, Wallace Mack, Aaron Randall, Kim

Regler, Sandra Rianno and Sarah McVee. It was edited by Lin Leedy, Lydia Paul Green and Brendan Klingenberg with mixing, scoring, theme and magic by Bobby Lorde and Catherine Anderson. Original compositions by Dreia the vibe dealer. Backchecking is by Michelle Harris. Special thanks today to Adam Bates, Paul Spring, Livia Rose Johnson, and Joseph Cochran. Resistance's show art is by Darien Berg's of the Stuybersons.

Matt Lieber is the happiness you feel when someone you know makes the big time. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next week.