Reply All - The Scaredy Cats Horror Show

Episode Date: April 30, 2020

A new podcast about scary movies for people who are too scared to ever watch them. Each week Alex Goldman, avowed horror fan, screens a scary movie for avowed scaredy cat PJ Vogt. Together, they want to find out if it’s possible to become a person who enjoys fear. This week, The Exorcist. Links How Did This Get Made? Podcast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey guys. So we have something new and different for you this week. It is not an episode of Reply All. It's an episode of a new podcast that Alex and I and the Replyal team have made while in quarantine. It is called The Scarety Cats Horror Show. And the premise is that I'm very scared of scary movies, as we've actually talked about on the show. For a long time, we've wanted to do this thing where Alex would basically curate a list of scary movies, starting it not that scary and getting progressively scarier to see if it was possible to cure me of my fear. So that is what we're doing on this podcast. We're watching a bunch of scary movies. It's brutal. And if you're somebody who either enjoys scary movies and just wants to hear someone be scared of them while they are discussed, you could listen to this podcast. Also, if you're somebody like me who is a scaredy cat,

this could possibly be an act of public immersion therapy, hopefully, maybe. So what you're about to hear is the first episode of this new podcast. If you like it, it has its own feed. If you don't like it, that's fine. We'll be back with normal reply-all programming next episode. One last note. So episodes of the show are going to come out on every other Tuesday on Spotify.

And then wide release everywhere else on Friday. Every time we do anything that has to do with putting a podcast on Spotify, people sort of freak out. We promise this is not, we're not moving in a direction of Spotify exclusivity. It's just like, if you've ever wondered about how to support or help the show, literally just listening on Spotify, It actually helps us. You don't have to do it. We're not going to make you do it. We're not going to make things really annoying for you.

But it helps. So anyway, here you go. First episode. Let's go. So the reason we're here today, Alex, is because for a very long time, something we've talked about is that I'm too scared of scary movies and have always been too scared of scary movies to watch them at all. Like, I drive no pleasure from them forever.

I was just like, okay, that's fine. That's going to be a thing. that just skips me. And then a couple years ago, Get Out came out. And it became such a zeitgeisty thing that it was like, oh, it's so great. You got to see it. It's not that scary, which is what people always say about things that, in fact, are that scary. But I think for the first time I felt left out and, like, I wanted to be able to watch it.

And, like, also, it seems to have sort of augured in this era of, like, really smart, interesting horror movies. And I'm, like, feeling of feeling missing out for the first time. So I started looking into it. I read a study that said that you can actually kind of habituate yourself to horror movies by watching them. It's so cool you read a study. Maybe we should introduce our guest, Jason Manzoukas. Such a cool dude thing to do vis-a-vis horror movies. I know what I should do?

Read a study. But the reason that we're doing this is because I actually love horror movies. I consume horror movies the way some people like consume. popcorn when they're when they're at the movie theater like I just I will I if I'm if I'm if I'm having trouble sleeping I'll put on a horror movie and lay on the couch and watch it they're just like I find them nourishing and and like nourishing nourishing nourishing nourishing I find them new rochelle and uh just like a joy and I feel like this is this is the moment I was born for was just to teach PJ how to love horror also right and the

other reason I'm excited to try to do this. And I use the word excited very loosely because as soon as we decided to do this, I was like, why did we decide to do this? But we've talked about this on the show. And when we have, I've heard from a lot of people who are also in my boat. And my hope is that we could make something that's like, for people who are like, oh, I want to check out scary movies, it actually gives them like a roadmap. We'll see.

We'll see. So we're going to watch a movie every episode. You're going to pick the movie. And we're going to have guests at least some of the time. Today, our guest is comedian and film buff Jason Mazookas. Hey, oh. I don't know if, Jason, are you a scaredy cat or not a scary cat? I am not.

I will say this. I'm not a scaredy cat in that I don't, you know, shy away from horror movies for being afraid or easily scared. But I am neither like Alex. Horror isn't one of my, like, genres. It's not one of my go-to. I'll watch stuff, especially stuff that, like you're saying, like that kind of percolates through pop culture, but I won't seek out, like, I won't go and watch, you know, Annabelle,

the, you know, or the, you know, or the, yeah, the, the, the, you know, every single Blumhouse movie or every iteration of the, the happenings movies or the Van Goghous movies or the Van Goghap. Manishing's movies or whatever, you know. I don't even know, these are like action figures that nine-year-olds play with. Like, none of these specifics didn't make sense to me. But, like, things that, like, really, you know, like Get Out or the Babaduke or things that are hereditary, things that are certainly scary, but are also that aren't just like horror movie.

Like, I just, I don't get in, and I know the horror people are going to get really, like, I know they don't like the phrase elevated horror, I think is a, like is is a way that people use to describe those movies. And I think horror fans don't like that because they're saying these are all horror movies. This is all the same. This is just a way for people to act fancy and be like, oh, you like your fancy horror movies. They're right. Like your Baba Dukes and your hereditaries.

But this is the same. This is the same, you know. I do as a person who's like, I guess kind of a snob or at least like feels left out when I don't get to enjoy a snobby thing. I do, I think I do want to watch. Like, I'm happy, I'm not happy to do anything. I'm willing to watch all the crap Alex is going to make me watch. But the goal, I think, is to be able to watch that stuff. The stuff, like, like, midsummer.

Like, I can't imagine actually watching that. But I'm tired of just, like, having to sort of sit out stuff. Well, so I guess that we should probably, we should probably tell everybody what movie we watched. This is our first episode. Yes. So, so far, this is a disaster. This is a rambling. shambling mess.

I don't mind saying. It's a real talk podcast. All three of us are professional podcasters, one of whom does a movie podcast already. And this is an absolute disaster. The other thing I was going to say, Jason, is like, you also watch a lot of B horror movies because you make a podcast about shitty movies.

Correct. Yes. I'm one of the co-hosts of How Did This Get Made, which is a movie podcast about bad movies, not horror movies specifically, but certainly horror. movies have been featured, such as Chopping Mall or Halloween

3 Season of the Witch. Chopping Mall? It's about some people get trapped in a mall with killer robots. Yeah. Oh yeah, that's bad. It's really worth it. That's an example of like, so fun. Not really scary at all, but so fun. Right. So the movie that we watched for our first episode, which

I'm worried now that people, I'm, I'm simultaneously worried, A, it wasn't scary enough, and B, I went too hard, too fast, was The Exorcist. PJ, I would love to know. Just what did you think about it? I would like to know first. Have you ever seen The Exorcist, PJ?

No. I haven't seen the only horror movies I've seen are horror movies. I was either forced to see due to literally like high school era peer pressure, which is scream. or I had to watch a few horror movies in college that I couldn't get out of. And that's it. Because this is kind of a, this is a classic movie,

you know, and a classic horror movie. No, I know. I was like, it was one of those movies where I was like, I'm never going to see this movie. And I know that people really like it and I'm just never going to see it. But I, yeah, I like this as a starting place because I don't, I mean, I, listen, you also contextually have to understand and I'm so curious, PJ, your thoughts. But this movie was terrifying at the time.

Like there was nothing. Like at the time this was absolutely a phenomenon. I read an article while we were getting this episode ready about a guy who sued the movie production company because he fainted, hit his face on the seat in front of him and broke his jaw. That guy's like my brother. So, PJ,

What'd you think? It was interesting. I kind of had both feelings. I both felt like you threw me too far into the deep end and like it wasn't scary enough weirdly. Huh. So because like I found it. First of all, I was just very scared to watch it. Like I spent, I put it off all week.

I put it off all day to day. I literally got down to the wire of like where I was texting you being like, could we start later? Because I waited until the running time was like two hours and two. minutes and we were originally supposed to record at 730 and I was like okay so that gives me until like 520 or like 528 I have until 528 and like there was a while where I downloaded like the directors cut which is 10 minutes longer yeah I did too and then I had to change it to make the time work and I was like I don't want 10 more minutes of scary shit like I'm sure that the 10 extra minutes are more scary shit had I been able to weigh in beforehand I would have but I would like to now as a as a as a as a the inaugural guest, as you all know, the first guest on any new podcast gets to make a rule. That's true. That's true. That's in the podcast constitution.

So PJ, from now on, you have to watch the movies at night. Yeah, I thought that's going to happen. You cannot watch any of these movies during the day. Sorry. Because part of what's scary is that when the movie is over, it's dark. Yeah. So the reason I kind of can't tell how scary it was is I cheated in a lot of ways. This is the first episode. Oh, my God.

I would people tune in. Why would people keep tuning in? When I say cheated, I just mean I behaved in ways that I could imagine future rules outlawing, but those rules haven't been invented yet. So I'm really not changing. Stopping and starting, watching it during the day. Yeah. I watched during the day. I stopped and started. I started with the blinds, closed, and then opened them. Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

And at one point, I called a friend and made them watch it with me on FaceTime. So what? Whoa. PJ, okay. Wow. I need to make a lot of rules. I'm, I'm like, rarely am I speechless.

But I'm... Because you would have had such a different experience of this movie if you'd watched it all the way through at night with nobody there with you. you. And that should be the intention of this podcast. Here's what I'm willing to say. This, the first episode, is an unmitigated failure already. We're five minutes. So we're five minutes in and you have failed. Now, what my solemn promise to the audience is that because of these fuckups, PJ is going to get it together and from now going forward,

I think, Alex, you should just choose brutal movies. And you should just start sending him like Ukrainian horror movies that are just absolutely terrifying. Look, I would love to do that, but I know PJ and I have worked together for 10 years and I know him well enough that in spite of the fact that we've already sold ads, he will bail if I go too hard. Definitely bail. You barely got me on the hook right now. I was like literally, I was like, how could I get out of this? We promised to do a bunch of episodes.

How could I get out of this? Maybe we could just put something else out. Maybe there's something that you don't know about that I know about that it could change to instead. Like, I was like really trying. Maybe I can convince Alex to do something where I win. Yes. So I did find it scary. I found it scary.

I was scared like I was anticipating being scared of it. And then I found a lot of it. It was like it has a weird rhythm where the scary stuff does not happen for a long time. Yeah. The tension by stopping and starting, you really hurt yourself because I think what's wonderful, because it's a William Friedkin movie and I think what's wonderful about it is structurally, he's telling concurrent narratives through the first act of the movie where you're following both. the, is it, it's Ellen Burstyn, right?

Yes. And Linda Blair and the, like, the, the burgeoning possession of Reagan. And you're simultaneously following Father Caris through his life. And they are parallel. They don't meet for 40 minutes. And you keep thinking they're going to meet. And I should just say, when I say pause, I mean, like, it wasn't like half an hour pause. It was like just like I kept going to the bathroom unnecessarily because I was scared.

All right. You got to let that tension build. Yeah. PJ, at what point, because you're watching a movie at first that's just set up, at what point do you start to feel dread? Is it from the beginning because you know it's a scary movie? Or is there a moment that you are like, oh, fuck? I had a lot of, oh, fuck.

I mean, the first, I was scared from the title sequence. The first moment of like shit, shit, shit. Like, I was yelling at the TV a lot throughout. The first moment was just like that, no, wait, the first moment was Iraq. That guy put his damn hand in a hole and I thought it was going to crush him. I honestly am so scared watching scary movies that I can't tell if I'm being scared by things that aren't even supposed to be that scary. If you could, like, slow down your thought process while you're watching these movies and not be so anticipating the scariness, you'd enjoy them so much more. because there are all these cues that tell you when things are going to happen.

Which you'll start to pick up on and notice. You know, you'll start to see, oh, because it depends. Some movies are full of jump scares where it's like suddenly something's going to jump out and scare you. And then some movies like this are just like building towards terrifying, unsettling imagery or moments, right? And that's what I actually appreciated. about this movie is it felt like it was kind of playing fair. It was like the scary things are going to happen in the room with the kid. Like when the priest is like in his apartment, there's not going to be like a demon under the bed.

Like it's kind of like you dread it and imagine what's going to have when you get there. But I liked that there were entire parts of the movie that just felt like you were watching a movie with characters and like decent writing and good acting. And like I really liked that. Like that's what felt safe about it. So, God, I sound like. Much a whip. You do. Yes, you do.

It's so interesting because the way you're approaching it is almost as if it's not a movie. It doesn't feel like a movie. Where you're like, you know, the parts where there were characters in scenes. And I'm like, well, wait a minute. Yeah, you're describing a movie because you watched a fucking movie, PJ. Like, you just. It doesn't feel like a movie. It feels like you're watching a movie.

And behind you, there's a guy with a baseball bat who's going to hit you four. to six times really hard during the movie. And so, like, you're, you're watching the movie kind of, but so much of my brain is just, like, how bad is this going to be? And, uh, and when's it going to be bad? And like, what if I told you if you watched the movie, if you just paid attention to the movie, those baseball bad hits wouldn't feel so hard. Yeah.

Because you will see the architecture. I have a hard time believing that because I feel like this is the only thing that's protecting me is like trying to get ahead of them. This is how I feel about COVID. This is literally how I feel. If I can outthink this thing, then I'll be safe. If I can just, if I can be smarter than this disease, but the movie's already been made. You're passive.

You have no control. You have to cede control to the movie. The whole time I'm trying to, I was like, like, like one of the first things I did was, I was like, oh, they're definitely going to kill off the mom. She's screwed. And normally I can actually predict movies decently well. I was so agitated that I was predicting. Like it didn't occur to me for a full hour that I wasn't watching a slasher movie.

Like I was like, okay, they're going to kill everybody but the kid and maybe the priest. And that's going to be at the very end. Like, so I did not watch his movie. So apart from the, apart from the your unbelievable anxiety at being anticipating being scared. Where was I actually scared? When was the first moment you actually got scared? when she goes into the... Okay, so there's a scene really early on

where... So there's a scene early on where she talks about how there's like rats in the house. And you know the movie's called The Exorcist. So you know it's not rats in the house. So astute. And she's like... Can't sneak one past PJ.

So I bet there's not rats. And she's complaining to her like large staff about like... And so you're like, okay, well, they're setting you up to not like her. Because she's got like a staff. And she's like, didn't you get rid of the rats? And they're like, yeah, we got rid of the rats. And she doesn't believe them.

And she goes into the attic where definitely the devil is hiding to look for these rats. And she's just like, nothing happens. Like she just walks around very slowly with a candle. And then like her like Butler groundskeeper guy pops up with a flashlight. He's like, hey, what are you doing up here? I was really that I was very scared. Can I just say that? I was watching it with.

Can I just say PJ that both of my hands are my eyes to. You actually missed the scary thing because you had your hands over your eyes. What's the scary thing? She's walking. She has a lighter, right? Does she have a lighter or can? Yeah. She's a candle.

She's a candle. She's in the attic. And suddenly a massive flame leaps out of the candle. Did you miss that? Oh, I did notice that. I literally, this is like I'm such a bad watcher. I was like, oh, her candle blew up. Oh, my God.

It's so funny. You're so busy trying to anticipate what's going to sky. scare you, you're not present in watching the movie. Yes. And that's in this instance, unfortunate only because this happens to be a terrific film, like as a movie itself. This is a beautifully constructed, incredibly well-made movie. Right. And the point where I started to actually enjoy the movie as a movie was like, so there's multiple scenes where, what's Linda Blair's?

character's name Reagan Reagan Reagan Reagan Reagan like Reagan so they like sort of figure out that she's a demon and doesn't just have like there's like a whole thing where she keeps talking to people and they're like oh she definitely has psychiatric problems and it's like her head's fully turning around and she's speaking Latin and vomiting green stuff on people I don't think this is like ADD or whatever so you know the part where they're actually testing her to try and figure out what's going on with her and they they like oh they so scary and they and they and and they and and like and and like and and like and and like and and like and Like, they, like, they put something in one of, in one of her veins and all this blood starts squirting out. She's like, she's in the hospital on like a sort of cat scan looking machine.

It's not really a cat scan machine. And they're sedating her and they, like, put a syringe into her neck and then, like, put a line on the syringe. And it's just so bloody and she looks so vulnerable. And, like, that was really scary because I felt like I thought she was going to kill everybody in that room. So two things about that particular scene. first is that when people describe when there are all these descriptions of people fainting and going crazy at the screenings of the movie

when it came out, it was primarily because of that scene because of just the amount of blood in it. And second of all, wait, just because there hadn't been, what was new about that scene that was making people? It just was so bloody in such a realistic way, the way the blood pumped with the heartbeat in the scene. Yeah.

And then the... But just to say that scene's not a scene where anything demonic is actually happening. Like, it's just, you're seeing a medical procedure. And the other thing is... That's what's great about this movie. Right. You know, that's what's great about this movie is it's priming you to be scared by the supernatural things by first scaring you with medical, psychological, psychological, and then supernatural.

Huh. And it's like a tasting menu of fear. And eases you in. Because if it really had just started supernatural, you'd be like, well, what, who cares? This is fake. This is, I don't even care what this is. But by pragmatically pursuing what a real person would do, first go to doctors, then go to therapists, then what hope do we have left? Yeah, Chris Reagan's mom sort of plays the audience surrogate in this movie.

Of being like a skeptic, like a reasonably skeptical person who exhausts all other options. But to me, she was an audience surrogate because I knew the movie was called The Exorcist. Really, I was like, come on, get on my level like I know what's going on here. The other thing I read is apparently, at least according to the director, that scene was used in like medical schools to show people how to do it because it was so medically accurate. Oh, wow. That medical stuff I loved. Both, the fact that they made her go through two separate, very scary, strapped down medical procedures that were loud and she was having intense reactions to them. Those are all priming you for when she is.

strapped to the bed and convulsing and having similar, you know, it basically is, it's giving you this story that is making you understand, like, oh, medical stuff can look like this. Like, stuff in my life could be this, you know? It really, it starts to sow the seeds of doubt in terms of if it was just like, oh, no, my daughter's possessed, quick call the exorcist at the end of act one. and then the rest of the movie was them battling the demon, you'd be like, who fucking cares? What's insidious about this movie is that she pragmatically goes systematically mad.

Her mother goes insane, trying to figure it out. And knows that what she's saying when she says, what about possession? What about exorcism? She says to Father Karis, you know? And he's like, that's not been done in hundreds of years. He was like, you'd have to get a time machine to do that. Yeah.

Okay, so I was scared in that. also there's just something about watching her mom watch her strap down getting medically poked. I hate to be the dad on the podcast, which, but I can't help it because I'm the dad on this podcast. You're just the dad in life. It really, the whole movie to me just felt like an extended metaphor for not being able to protect your kids. Oh, yeah, I bet.

I was watching it thinking about COVID and all my friends who have young kids who are having to teach them and who are struggling with it. And to me, I was like, oh, this seems like it's a movie about wanting to kill your kids because they're really poorly behaved. And like loving them, but them having like complicated behavioral problems where it's like, I love you, but you're acting like an insane person. That's amazing. Yeah, that's incredible.

I'm going to go ahead and say that every text is open to interpretation, but I don't agree with you on this one. I mean, that says a lot about what you think it must be like to have children. They don't know anything, and they're very poorly-baved. So, okay, the other thing that was interesting about watching this for me is that even though I found it really scary, there were scenes that I thought were really funny. Sometimes, like, while they were scaring me, like, it wasn't like, oh, this malfunctioned, and so I'm laughing. But, like, they were so over the top. Like, when she comes down and pees on the carpet, I thought it was really funny.

I was like, that's just, it's such a weird. bold choice. I really, I actually, I think that's fine. I think that's good. I actually really, that,

that actually, the way that it starts with like, the way that the movie starts, where it feels like it could be some physiological problem with the kid, that grounds it for me. And rarely do you see a movie where like someone gradually falls apart like that.

It's usually within the span, like The Shining, a movie that I love, Jack Torrance goes crazy. in the span of like 15 minutes. Well, the other thing, so I've actually seen the Shining because I had due for a class. And the thing that I was thinking about with The Exorcist compared to the Shining is like the shining, it goes crazy right away. And so it's sort of like the same as in comedy.

It's like because they've already done something crazy, everything has to escalate way more. And so the Shining has to go to such an insane place to keep the momentum. And it was scarier with The Exorcist how because they wait so long to show you their hand, you just don't know what you're going to see when they find. show you something. And then when it does get nuts, it's like really nuts. Well, that's what I like about this movie

is like it's more like waiting in jaws. They don't show you the shark for over an hour. You know, you know the damage it's doing. You might get quick shots of something happening, but you don't see the shark for a very long time. You don't see the monster. And that makes it so much scarier.

So to your point, you know you're seeing the exorcist. You know this little girl is going to, you might even know from cultural, you know, knowledge that her head spins around or whatever, you know. All that stuff. Any of that stuff. But the fact that they make you not only wait for it, but build like these, because I hadn't watched it in a while. So I'd forgotten all of the, how much time we spend with Father Caras and his mother and his, and his like all of those components of building who he is before they come together.

Because once he's, once they engage and he starts in like investigating with Reagan, then it's like a, then it's like very quickly escalating, very darkly. So when I was watching it last night, I started getting super nervous. I watched it last night in preparation for this conversation. I started getting super nervous. I was like, there's so much time you spend with. Reagan in full on demon mode where she's just like sitting around chatting. I was like, PJ's not going to be scared by this at all.

I picked it stinker. I enjoyed it. I found it scary. I was always worried. Okay, I just want to mark this moment. This feels like a real triumph. PJ found it scary slash enjoyed it. And I want you to tell me I just, just go nuts.

Tell me everything. I feel like I fucked up somehow by saying that. I did enjoy it, though. I enjoyed it because, The type of horror that I'm used to hating the most is like, you get a glimpse of something horrible. And like, you never see its eyes. And it's like dashing through quarters or whatever. And I liked that you would just, they would go into the room where she's like pretty quickly.

They just like tie her to a bed because they realize she's a demon. And she almost kills somebody with a, oh, God, we got to talk about that scene. Oh, boy. But, so she's, so there's. There's lots of scenes where they go in and they just kind of talk to her. And she's talking to them in this, like, scary deep man, devil voice. And it kind of felt like, like, if horror is all about, like, anticipation, then something being revealed, I felt like I was getting to see the thing.

I was the thing that, like, goes bump in the night, kind of clearly. And then just, like, the things that, like, I had a lot of moments with her. There's all these scenes where someone will go into the room and she'll be kind of, like, weak and quiet, and then someone gets too close to her, whether it's like a psychiatrist or a priest or whatever, and she just goes into devil mode. And she says incredibly profane things. Stick your cock up her ass, you motherfucking worthless cocksucker. Be silent. And I was both like afraid and I was like, that is hilarious. Like it's such an insane thing to do in a movie. You know what I mean? Sure. Oh yeah, especially for, and I believe

Linda Blair at the time of this making this movie, I believe, is like 13 years old. Yeah, she's super young. She's like truly a child. And there's a great that, and I'm so sorry, I'm not remembering the podcast that I listened to about the making of this movie, but like, Freakin

talked to was trying to find someone to play this part. Yeah. But it wasn't right. And he met Linda Blair and her mother. And sat in a room with them and was talking to the mother primarily. And then Linda Blair just started

speaking on her own behalf and telling him about how she'd read the book that it was based on. And he said, wait, you read the book? And she said, yeah, I read the book. And then he started asking her if she understood, because I think at that time, she was like 12 years old or something. Did you understand? And she showed such an understanding and a maturity for what the content of the book, was, that he was like, she can do this. She's so good in it. Like, she's so good. I think it's really, like, of all, like, there's special effects that, like, age well

and don't age well or whatever. But just, she's really good in a way that, like, kid actors aren't. And where particularly I would imagine in a horror movie, like, she's just so convincingly possessed. Yeah. It's nuts. I don't know how you get that kind of performance out of someone. And, like, definitely they dub over the voice with another woman's voice who.

Well. I don't think it's a woman's voice. No, it is a woman. It's actually, they had a woman actress, and the way that they got that is she would, like, drink bourbon and smoke cigarettes before she read her lines. And just reading about the movie, that's just, like, one of the ways that the production seemed really extreme. Like, William Friedkin, the director, seems like he was kind of a lunatic. He is, yes. In what way?

Well, let me count the ways. He, uh, in order to get, like, legitimately scary reactions from the, um, he is. from the actors, he would fire a gun when they were supposed to jump. The guy who plays who plays Father Dyer, who's the person who delivers the last rights when Father Karras falls out the window.

Yeah. He's an actual priest and he kept trying to deliver the last rights and wasn't doing a good job. And so William Friedan got up in his face and he was like, listen, do you trust me? And the guy said yes. And then he slapped him as hard as he could cross the face. and he said...

Really? And he was like, yeah, did you see the way I was shaking in that scene? Like, that's because I was actually freaked the fuck out because someone just slapped me in the face. He sounds like a terrible person. Yeah, he sounds awful. That's very, though, like, that's like,

that's very old school, old Hollywood director kind of stuff. You know, like, Hitchcock used to do stuff like that to actors and actresses, like that in order to make them scared he would, or there was like, famously like, Like two actors who hated each other and he in, I think it's the 39 steps. And for part of the movie, they're handcuffed to each other. And during the entirety of the shoot, he would tell everybody, don't let them out of the handcuffs. Because I want them to annoy each other and be miserable when we're shooting.

Don't let them free. So PJ, were there any parts where you were like, I absolutely can't go on? like this has to, like I have to stop watching this? Um, no, no, no. The parts that were the most scary were, there's a scene that were two scenes. They were all scenes that happened in the bedroom, you know, where Linda Blair's care, were Reagan, like, locked up. Oh, the other thing I should say is he decided that when she was possessed, you had to be

able to see everybody's breath in the room. So what he did is he got this gigantic restaurant air conditioner and he would leave it on overnight. So they were all freezing the whole time they were shooting. Oh, that's not a special effect. No. Which I thought that special effect wouldn't have existed at the time. And I loved that. I loved that there were practical elements like that that gave you real, it made you unsettled. It was so unsettling. And it didn't even, there wasn't even like a logic to it. Like, why is the devil cold? It was just freaky and weird and freaky. Like it felt like a nightmare detail. Um, um, okay. So the one scene where.

she attacks, who is it that she had, she stabbed somebody with a cross. Oh, she stabs herself in the vagina with a cross. Yes. Yes. And then tries to force her mother to put her face in her bloody, stabbed vagina. Correct. That freaked me out. And when you say it scared you, was it just like gross and hard to watch? Or was it like, what kind of fear are we talking here?

I was yelling I was yelping yelling what yelling yeah do it look it up yeah get in there mom come on cheering her on

not cheering her on it was like a mix of fear and shock I think Alex I just broke Alex I actually recorded myself watching the scene let me just play it for you

something bad's gonna happen Something bad is gonna happen. This is me basically the whole movie. And then this is where it happens. Oh! I have to admit, like, I'm a little jealous. Like, you get into a movie with all of your emotions. It's like a full body fear.

It is a full body fear. There's one more. Holy shit. Holy shit. Oh my God. My favorite part is something bad's going to happen. Something bad's going to happen. It feels exactly like the movie

Alibis felt like going up a roller coaster when you don't like roller coasters. Yes. And when done well like this movie, it feels like you keep thinking, oh, we're about to crest and we're going to go down. And instead, you keep climbing. You know?

Yes. And that's what I really love about, like, this era of, like, Hollywood, big, scary movies are really psychologically unsettling. The others that I would put in this category are Rosemary's Baby and the Omen, also movies that are about parents and children. Yeah. You know, and giving birth to either the Antichrist or a Devil or any. of those things. Those are all movies in which parents have to confront the fact that their

child is some sort of threat to them, to others, and it's so insidious because it's not like, oh no, Freddie Kruger comes into my dreams and kills me when I'm asleep, which is great fun, and I love

Nightmare on Elm Street, but like these, like the omen is so much more unsettling, because it's like, what if the only answer to all of these problems was to have to kill your own child. Right. Jesus.

Okay, PJ. Now is the time to ask you on a scale of 1 to 10, how scary was this movie? Now, I would say six. Now as opposed to when? Well, I feel like as soon as it's over,

it's kind of like pain. Like you kind of can't remember pain when it's after happened. Like, I say six now, but actually just listening to the audio of myself and, like, there's definitely like a seven and a half. Okay. So, okay. I would say seven and a half, but I don't think it's going to linger in a bad way. Um, how on a scale of one to ten, how much did you like the movie? Uh, like. What does it mean to like a horror movie? Did you enjoy the experience of watching it? No. No. Not at all. Interesting. I enjoyed,

there were parts that I enjoyed. I definitely enjoyed having finished it. Like in a way where it's like, oh, like after, like, like, like going on a run, like, you don't really like the run, but like afterwards feels kind of good. Hmm. On the scale of the normal movie that I would voluntarily choose to watch, like, if it was on Netflix and it popped up, I would say I enjoyed it a two out of ten on the scale of horror movies, which I don't know if they just like I hate. I would say like a six and a half and I don't think I've ever seen anything above that I the other thing that I did like about it though

actually like maybe this gives it a point is um I was like I was I was having like a you know you have a day where you just like look at too many graphs can you elaborate oh you mean like for COVID and yeah the quarantine like what were yeah yeah yeah but like current events graphs yeah yeah okay

I was having one of those days I was like, I don't know how to get my brain off of this. And for that two hours, like, it really held my attention in a way that I think just like a movie that I liked probably wouldn't have. Huh. Okay. Because my brain was like, there's someone in the house who could kill you. Did I move the needle at all on you enjoying horror? Like, did I, did you watch like one of, you can't, you can't have, Alex, you can't have done that in one episode.

You definitely didn't do it in one episode. That's a question for the end of the series. Yeah. No, the needle is where it was. He's still, I mean, keep in mind, PJ is still reacting in a way that is trying to mitigate the results of horror movies. He's watching during the day.

He's watching with people on the phone. He's stopping and starting. Like, he's still like a little boy and looking through his fingers not willing to commit. He's a commitment vote. So my challenge to you, PJ, I don't know if that resonates with anybody else. But my challenge to you in doing this, PJ, would be to take away those training wheels,

to really watch these movies at night alone and record yourself. Because that's, I think, what's, that's how this podcast is going to work. So the thing I'd like to do, PJ, to close this out, I think. Oh, no, I had one more question for Jason. What scares the shit out of you? Here's actually, here is a list of movies I have never seen, nor will I see. Contagion, pandemic, outbreak. My fear center lies in germs and health and all that stuff.

So the scariest thing to me is what is contained in those. I would never watch contagion, you know, or any of these pandemic, anything, any show or movie that shows, you know, and I'm talking, this is true years ago when it came out, not related, unrelated to what's going on right now, because what's going on right now is to me the equivalent of somebody who is like, I know I've watched funny games a bunch of times, but now I'm getting home invaded? What the fuck? You know, like that's, to me right now, we're experiencing my worst fear nightmare, which is

pandemic. Do you think that do you have this incredible and unmitigated fear? Because I know this, maybe listeners know it, maybe they don't, that you have like severe allergy to eggs, where if you eat them, you will basically die? I think that's probably true. I think from a very, very young age, I had such an understanding of my own mortality and the fact that it was so easily pierced.

You know, I think most kids grow up feeling invulnerable and invincible and that simple things can't kill them. And I think for me, it was always drilled into my head that not only can simple things kill you, the most ordinary of things, cookies that your friends, friend's house, anything, means you're dead, done. RIP. So for me, health and the catastrophic, something catastrophic befalling me health-wise was always so much scarier than a guy in the woods

with a knife. You know what I mean? Like, that's, like, what's really scary to me is a plate of cookies that looks delicious that I don't know who baked. Man, that's rough. That's rough. But so then am I to like to make it you know back to me like it's all about PJ it's all about PJ does that mean that there's a category of horror movie like does appreciating horror movies mean that there can still be a kind of horror movie that I'm like oh that's not for me or do you know what I mean yeah totally totally like I like these movies that I'm talking about like I love the exorcist or rosemary's baby again remember you're just watching a movie PJ you're just watching a movie you know the same way watch comedies and dramas and you don't like every type of comedy you know what i mean like you you the

ones you like are the ones you like yeah but it doesn't if i don't like a drama or comedy it's not it's not because it's convincing my brain that i'm about to die i'm sorry what makes you what makes you so important that you the movie is was made to kill you yeah seriously oh don't try to shame me into liking that seriously also PJ Go into it. If you go into it, if you, if you can somehow shed yourself of this anticipation that it's going to be all out terror, you're going to enjoy it more because it really isn't. Like most movies aren't. If you, if, if, if, if, I think, I think as difficult a task as it will be to, to, I'll follow all your fucking rules.

I don't expect, I don't really expect at the end of this to like horror. But I wouldn't try to solve for the problem of my apprehensive, anxious disposition because I think it's a bigger, harder problem. If the answer's like learned to be in the moment, I think we're fucked. What I think is good about starting here is I think it's like putting the law in warm water and now you can really start turning the heat up. Like, this is a safe way to start because it's a great movie. And yes, it's scary, but it's, I suspect it didn't like shatter you.

No, I'm going to sleep fine tonight, I think, probably. Great. Okay. Which is a perfect place to end episode one. This makes you really not look forward to episode too. After the break, we'll talk about what we're watching next. Okay, PJ, it's just you and me now. First of all, congratulations on surviving The Exorcist.

Thank you. What's my next? What movie do I have to watch? Your next movie is the 1984 supernatural slasher film, Nightmare and Elm Street. Ah, shit. Why are you saying shit? What is it about this in particular that makes you feel like, oh, no, what have I done? I've just been...

You've already watched The Exorcist. I've been scared of Nightmare on Elm Street, the idea of that. Like, I've, I had nightmares about Freddie Krueger as a kid without seeing that movie. You know what I mean? There was, like, the Simpsons used to do these. I'm sure they still do them, but they have these, like, every Halloween, they have a Halloween episode, and all the times it's parodies of horror movies. And the way I was exposed to a lot of horror movies was through Simpsons parodies.

And I found those episodes kind of unbearably scary. And the Freddie Krueger episode at the time, I found so frightening. The one with Willie as Freddie Krueger. Yeah. Yeah. They also do the Shining, but they keep calling it the shining. And then every time they say the shining goes, do you want to get sued? Like, I think, I think in a weird way, what I'm learning already is that I'm scared.

It's not just that scary movies scare me. It's that I'm scared of being scared by scary movies, which is like another layer. And I think of the movies that I'm most scared of being scared of are actually like, 80s movies because those were the movies that were around when I was a kid that I didn't say. Huh. Well, one of the things, so, so Night Run All Street, like, by the time that movie came out, like, Jason Voorhees was already a thing. He's the hockey mask one.

Yes. Michael Myers was already a thing. He's the white non-hockey mask one. Do you know that the Michael's, Michael Myers mask is an inside out William Shatner mask that they painted white? No, I didn't know that. Yeah. That's why the hair's so funny. Yep.

Huh. But like the thing that I think resonates so much with people or resonated with me about, about Freddie, who I find infinitely scarier than the other ones, is that he only gets you when you are absolutely at your most vulnerable. When you're asleep. Which is when you were asleep. That's what I know. I know that he attacks you in your dreams, but for real. But the, but you know, that movie was like such a crazy phenomenon that the, that the production company that made it, line cinema. They were like, they'd been around since like the late 60s and they were like

a languishing as a company. They'd never had like a hit movie or anything. And the only reason that that studios exists today is because of the Nightmare and Elf Street. That's like how big a success it was. It's often called in the industry or in the industry press. In the horror biz? The house that Freddie built. Because the house that Freddie built. Okay. All right. Are you ready? Yeah, I'm ready. Well, good luck. I'll talk to you next episode. All right, see you next episode. Scaredycats Horror Show is hosted by me, PJ Vote, and Alex Goldman. The episode was produced by Jessica Young and edited by Tim Howard, with more help from Fia Bennett. We're mixed by Rick Fawn, fact-checking by Michelle Harris, our intern is Lisa Wang. Special thanks to Christina DeJoseph,

Patrick Bryce, Demi, Adigewebe, and Gita Jackson. Our theme is by Mariana Romano, and our closing theme is by Alex Goldman. Our cover art was made by Ali Moss, Jason Manzuka's podcast How did this get made? It's hilarious. You should download it wherever you get your podcast. It's also about dissecting movies. Don't forget to watch Nightmare on Elm Street in advance of our next episode. We'll be back in two weeks.

You can catch new episodes early on Spotify on Tuesdays, and you can hear the show everywhere else on Fridays. Thanks for listening.