Reptile Fight Club - Cinco - RFC Clipshow #5

Episode Date: March 10, 2023

In this episode, Justin and Chuck recap some of the highlights from the show        Who will win? You decide. Reptile Fight Club!Follow Justin Julander @Australian Addiction Reptiles-http://www.australianaddiction.comFollow Chuck Poland  on IG @ChuckNorriswinsFollow MPR Network on:FB: https://www.facebook.com/MoreliaPythonRadioIG: https://www.instagram.com/mpr_network/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtrEaKcyN8KvC3pqaiYc0RQMore ways to support the shows.Swag store: https://teespring.com/stores/mprnetworkPatreon: https://www.patreon.com/moreliapythonradio

Welcome to Synco, another episode of Reptile Fight Club, another clip show. What's going on? I'm Justin Julander, and here with me in the show, Mr. Chuck Poland. Heyo! Hello! Oh! Back again. Let's go. Yeah. Hey, get down.

Turn it on. How's life? Ruby! Oh my god, stop! Already battling with Ruby. She's trying to get on here. Not one minute in and we're already battling with Ruby. What the hell? Dude!

Peacock, peacock. Seriously, what was that? What'd she do? I missed that. So my cord for my headphones was drooping down and and she like jumped up to like kind of get me to pay attention to her. And she just caught the cord and ripped them right off my head. I will not be denied. Up to a good start.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Typical shenanigans at my house. For sure. How's life? Good, good. Life's good just uh yeah trying to uh trying to manage a busy life you know just uh aren't we all yeah so work's been pretty nuts uh lately so yeah same here same here um yeah it is what it is i guess but yeah my daughter just brought me a drink what a sweet

nice sweet lady ddp i guess they did it wrong so it is not sweet sweet lady ddp some i think it's some mountain dew drink i don't know i don't know that's the the vice in Utah is the dirty sodas. The dirty sodas. There's like a dirty soda. I don't know. Do you guys have that in California? Like a dirty soda shop? Oh. Yeah, like pop shops or whatever. I don't know.

It's like a little shack that sells like soda with additives, like flavors like peach. Oh. Yeah, my go-to is like the DDP with the peach. Oh, my gosh. Hold on. Ruby's heard of it, I guess. She's trying to chime in there. But, yeah, Utah is, I guess, with so many members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints,

we've, you know, our vices are a little more tame, but yeah, there's, you're just, you're just sinning with sugar. That's yeah. So I remember, uh, in Australia, seeing my first drive through, uh, like, uh, alcohol shop or whatever. Like, what are those? Yeah. Anyway, it was liquor store. Liquor store. There you go. I'm searching for the words. Yeah, I really am from Utah. No, that's – But yeah, so we stop by and grab a big drink every once in a while. Nice.

A dirty soda. Yeah, no. When we're feeling wild. I don't know anything. I don't know anything about that. The best we have is drive-thru taco shops. So it's that dirty, dirty, dirty, dirty burrito. Oh, man.

Dude, we stopped at a spot. We picked up Eric from the airport and hit some taco shop. I think that was before you joined us on the trip to California. But, oh, my goodness, those were some good tacos. I'm telling you, that's like the best places. Everything is just fantastic. It was just some random shop on the way that was convenient. Yep, and that's how it is, man.

That is totally how it is. It's like usually the best taco shops are like hole in the wall. Like, what the heck? why do we what are we doing here and you're like oh that's what we're doing this is why yeah yeah yeah i i really yeah like all the good taco shops are they're they're all they're all out of like old old like fast food restaurants that look like they were conceived in the 70s and like it's it's just like 80 coats of paint on the place. And, but that's just like the greatest tacos ever. It's fantastic. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, that was a good trip. Um, yeah. I'm just thinking about those tacos, man. Getting a little hungry. It's good. I haven't had my dinner yet. Yeah, sorry. I didn't mean to get you. No, no. I brought it up, so it's my own dang fault. Stick to the soda shack. Yeah. All right.

Well, how's Herp Life? You got some good stuff. Herp Life's cool, yeah. It's kind of slow. Yeah, it's slow. I mean, I'm not doing much um yeah you know i'm a little bit around here i mean we're up into the double digits now so well okay yeah fair i guess you guys got snow didn't you yeah i saw snow in joshua tree or yeah did

you guys get any in southern in san diego or no, no, no, no. Well, I mean, at Elevation we did. Yeah, yeah. Like – We got snowed on, didn't we, in Southern California? Or in Julianne, didn't we get snowed on? Or did it not snow? Maybe. Maybe.

I don't – It was cold, though. It was cold up there. I mean – And that was in – It did snow last year. It did snow last year up there because we went up there. But I don't think that was when you guys up there. I mean, and that was in, it did snow last year. It did snow last year up there. Cause we went up there,

but I don't think that was when you guys were there. No, it was probably just rain, but I just remember being cold and a little, a little late, maybe that's a little late, a little late in the season for snow from when you guys were there. Still,

man, we're getting dumped on here. We've got feet on the ground. Are you, are you just shredding the, are just shredding the the uh the slopes oh yeah okay we went up the other night holy crap it was just a powder paradise it was so nice it was a little windy but i mean we we tried to go a couple different spots and the the wind just prevented it. It blew you off the edge. You couldn't go anywhere on a snowboard.

But, yeah, it was really fun. Me and my daughter Ashley went up and hit the slopes for an evening. Nice. Yeah, good stuff. But now it's warming up. It's probably going to crest up a bit. I think we've got snow later in the week, but we'll see. Yeah.

Yeah, I don't know, man. I had a freak out where I was just like it has been so, you know, my temperatures have gotten just like highs in the 50s, lows in the 40s. And it's just been like that. No sun, rain. And I'm like, I'm pulling the diamonds inside. Like I just like they, they stopped, they completely stopped basking. They were completely hiding. Like I would go in to check on them and they are absolutely so cold. And I'm just like, ah, like, I know you guys can do this.

I know. I'm like, I'm not like, I'm not scared from like the, I think they're going to die thing. Yeah. But like, is it pep talk? It's not you. It's me. Yeah, exactly. It's like, do I need to do this to you? Like, are we, are we, you know, I feel like I'm being unfair in our relationship.

If I could, you know, if you want to come inside, they want to come inside too. So I brought him, brought him inside and they've been in for the past couple of days. So it's, it's finally the, the rain rain and the the kind of the crappy weather stopped so we got some sun it was the first day you know and probably like a week that i've seen the sun so and it kind of you know um i basked in the sun today so i'm like i should put them back outside so they can start basking in the sun and they can deal with those cold nights. But as long as they, you know, can warm up a little bit, I'm okay. Or, or as long as they have, you know, a few days, I just get, I just get worried because I don't have like deep insulated cover for them and, you know, extended periods of cold with no warmup. Just,

it does make me a little nervous. So that's my, that's my big woo going on around here, which, you know, not the biggest woo, but, uh, it is to me. So, yeah, we're, we're hitting up above 30. I was out basking today too. You know, the sun was shining. We were 30 degrees. Oh, there oh there are people yeah even like i was walking on campus during and it was it was snowing you know and it was cold like you know single digits cold and in fahrenheit and uh yeah this girl walks by in a little mini skirt like what are you trying to prove here you know like come on but yeah it's you know there's people notorious for walking around in shorts in Utah in the winter.

So fraternity row for San Diego State is like on College Avenue, and it's like kind of a main thoroughfare. And when I lived over by there, it was in the middle of winter, freezing cold, and these sorority girls are just walking in the skimpiest outfits. Like, what are you, what are you doing? Yeah. Like, yeah. Forget that. They're up to no good. Yeah. That's right.

Good times. Did I, did I tell you I got, got, did we already talk about the ultrasound? Yes. I tried it out. Yeah.

So that more, um, no, I did get some gel though. I just, I just haven't had time to get out there and do anything i took my daughter on a little yeah i took a little trip down to southern utah to take my daughter on some uh college tour time you know it was like a junior preview thing and so

we went down to price and st george utah so Checked out a couple of local colleges, but, um, yeah, got, got a little, uh, winter herping out there, you know, found some feathered herps, but I figured, I figured the scaled ones out, no opportunity wasted. Uh, yeah, I feel like, I feel like, I feel like your whole birding thing is because like, once the reptiles are hunkered down, you you can you can find the flying dinosaurs still so you're like it really it really is an outlet for that for sure like no i get it i mean i kind of i make fun of you for it and i will always i will always lambast you but i mean i i do understand yeah it's it's definitely i mean i definitely need you know to get some uh guff for

that but you know it's fun yeah i enjoy that's fair well it's like a lot of herpers are old you know well i there's there's quite a few reptile people that go into birding as well you know yeah i would say he was a birder before he was a herper. I was going to say Keith might actually be a bigger birder nerd than you. Yeah. Yeah. He kept a lot of different cool birds. Yeah. Pheasants.

Yeah. Yeah. So. You don't keep birds though, right? You don't have any birds at the house, right? No. I had a rainbow lorikeet that I just loved. It was the best.

I mean, it would talk to me and stuff. But no like rare high dollar. No rare high dollar birds. Well, he was hey he wasn't cheap but yeah nothing like no cock i mean i don't want to yeah like they're not they're not expensive as far as some birds go though right like i mean yeah they're under a thousand yeah so yeah and i and i traded a few snakes and some cash for him so yeah yeah my dad had an African gray, and that bird was cool. Those things are cool, man. They're very smart.

Like you could hear like my stepmom and my dad would both say the same things, and you could hear the tonal inflection of who that bird was mimicking. And the only thing that sucks about those birds is they tend to imprint onto one person and they ate everybody else yes oh my gosh and that's the that's the real tragedy of keeping those large parrots in in captivity i watched a nature program uh i think i think it was nature but it was talking about parrots in captivity and it was heartbreaking, you know, like movies will come along with the talking parrot or something. And then everybody rushes out and buys these, you know,

big birds. And then they find out really quick that, that they're not great for, you know, they, they screech and squawk. And like you said, they get all over the place.

Yeah. They can make a very destructive and, and you know, if you, and if you don't pay enough attention, they start you know barbering you know pulling out their feathers and stuff so yeah it's really a sad thing so yeah they're just some i mean it's it's kind of along the same lines as like a croc monitor or you know there's just very few people that can handle an animal like that yeah definitely aussie buddies that have like outdoor aviaries and like provide them you know

flight air you know large yeah i honestly think that's you know i mean like with croc monitors like with any other you know like you gotta you just you just gotta do well and even that's kind of a poor substitute you know for sure yeah and then you know you're like why are you breeding these who are these going to you know Not people with flight aviaries. That's very true. I think it's such a hard thing because I definitely think that you should be able to keep and breed just about anything you want. But how many people can care for those? Maybe they supply zoos or something.

That would be a nice thing, you know, if there's an opportunity. I know Terry Phillip was saying that there just isn't a very good selection for venomous reptiles anymore. It's very hard to find because, you know, they're not importing them anymore and then nobody's working with them. So, yeah, it's kind of tricky. I don't know. That's another topic, another day, right? Not all press is good press. Let's get into Cinco here.

Cinco! Our fifth clip show. Not Cinco de Mayo. Just to kind of remind the listener, we like to kind of go through the old shows and kind of discuss a little bit if we've had any new insights or ideas onto them or just kind of rehash or whatever. So the first one, show number 41, was the maternal versus artificial incubation. And I don't know. I really haven't done it in a while. And I just think it's, you know, having the cage set up.

You're speaking about maternal. Maternal incubation. I have done artificial quite a bit. But, you know, and some females are better than others. Like I'm expecting a black-headed python clutch any day now, but I don't think she would curl those eggs. You don't trust her, right? I would not trust her. Yeah. So she's not the best mother.

And I wonder in the wild if black-headed pythons, if they are, yeah, that semi-tropical distribution, how often they stay. I'm sure they probably do. And she's just, you know, a captive. So, you know, I don't need to do that. He'll take them from me. Yeah. I don't know.

That's right. But I think if, you know, it's a very rewarding thing. It's very exciting to see those babies hatch out from their mother's coils. Sure. I keep thinking with your outdoor setups, you know, if you could, uh, allow them to try that out, but I don't know if I'd do it with diamond pythons, maybe. Yeah. Well, I definitely not. I mean, I think, uh, you know,

getting a clutch last year from the coastals outdoors, maybe if they lay this year, I don't know. It depends on when they lay and how how you know where where we're at and and yeah i might i might let them i mean i've got you know i've got a a cane heat mat in there and a thermostat that um i can moderate temperature and um yeah so i mean it definitely could happen no problem yeah yeah yeah for sure so give them a steady uh state i mean yeah and diamonds in the wild like they leave their clutch regularly to bask and things like that so um they they know what they're doing they they can do it to the best of their ability but there was a paper that uh shine published that showed like sometimes females leave the eggs in the wild and the eggs die or the eggs crash, you know,

or they have, uh, retained eggs, even wild, uh, uh, pythons have been known to have retained eggs. So kind of an interesting thing to think about, but, um, I I'd recommend it. I, and we really, I want to kind of put out a call to arms. We really need a good scientific study to, to see if, you know, if there's some measurable benefit of maternal incubation, I think there have been relatively few published studies and they have their challenges, but that would be really cool to see, you know, from a, you know, some, somebody that has a lot of the same species that they could have half of them maternally incubate and half of them take away. But I think an even better study would be to take half the clutch and maternally incubate half the clutch and let them artificially incubate half the clutch and maternally incubate the other half.

Just so you're comparing the same clutch. Same clutch, yeah, for sure. Yeah. And I mean, that's, you know, you got to be there. You got to be there when that gets laid. And there's a lot of, there's a lot to that, that, that, you know, makes it challenging. And frankly, that, you know, that has a heat pad or something, some kind of hot spot that stays pretty constant, you know, that they could hang out under. I mean, I have done it in rack situations for some of the anteresia. I've done it in cages for some of the carpets, but never more than one or two a season, you know, and it was mostly like, oh, the incubator's full.

They're in a spot where they could do it in their cage. And, you know, we talk about maternal incubation, but we're maternally incubating in a controlled environment. You know what I mean? So it's kind of like, that's why I kind of agree with you, like maternally incubating outside, that's the cat's meow of maternal incubation, right? You know what i mean where they have to rely on the sun and absolutely you know and you know i think if

they've been outside for a few seasons they're gonna know yeah when the season is and when to lay and those kind of things but i don't know you wonder about that too because if they're hardwired or you know they've they've adapted millions of years to a certain environment and place in Australia and then all of a sudden they're in Southern California, it might be similar. I think something like a coastal carpet that has a more wide distribution might be able to adapt to that. And where it gets cold, maybe your habitat is similar to Sydney or something. I don't know.

So it would be interesting to see how that went. I mean, I think successfully do that. I think, I think, you know, if they, you know, I think especially here when it starts to warm up, we tend to hit a pretty steady where, you know, maybe it'll drop down and maybe those eggs thermal pause and, and, and, but you know, usually a couple of days it warms back up and then they're back to kind of going again. So I really, really, it'd be interesting to look at, you know, temperature data, uh, over those periods when, you know, if take it from when they lay to, you know, look at like what, what those temperatures look like and overlap that with what they're doing and see, you know, how, how, you know, whether they're like kind of making, you know, date time, seasonal decisions, or whether they're

making purely temperature based and, you know, and see that successive years to see how those compare. I don't know. That'd be interesting to see, you know, pretty cool. Yeah. I could see like a cool bank of cages in your backyard that have several pairs. Oh, my gosh. That'd be cool. Just what my neighbors want to see, I'm sure. Yeah, I'm sure. Well, you don't want them to see.

Right. Well, it's a little – I mean, Southern California, man. Houses are built on top. That's true. Not a lot of space. Yeah, you may have to wave at your neighbors. I can throw rocks at mine. Yeah.

There you go. Yeah. All right, show 42, herping. Is it luck or skill? Mainly luck or skill. I mean, that was kind of more of a fun. There's no real answer to that. I mean, you know, certainly experience, you know, I mean, the times we've gone out with people who've herped areas and they know that area, we've had great luck, right? I mean, you know, and Jason, you know, Jason.

Yeah. So, I mean, both those guys, like they know those areas, they know where to go. And we had great, you know, we had great luck when we went with them. Um, but not to say, you know, like, we wouldn't have found that on our own. Yeah. Possibly, you know, it's hard to say. Yeah. I mean, I think knowing where to expect them and, and kind of a visual pattern you know those kind of things

i think that definitely helps and and i think you can acquire a certain level of skill but you still have to chance on them at the right time and the right place you know but i mean like the other yeah the other part too is like um you know we're like it was so it was so good when we were in anza because it was like all right go from here to here and you'll find this this and this so i mean yeah it's i mean that knowledge is hard to replace when you can call it that when you can call it that good or you you know you know where the locality of certain – like say Rosie Boas. When you know where those localities start and end and where you can find those – I mean that's just experience and the overtime that – Yeah, that was amazing to watch Jordan in action and see like he knows the exact, you know, Oh, I, he, he's

seen probably 50 Rosie bows in this spot or something, you know, that kind of thing over, over time and, uh, knows, okay, we can probably speed up here. We're there's, there's a low chance we're going to see this or that or the other here, you know, this is the time to slow down and look closer or something, you know? But yeah, pretty fun. Yeah. Yeah. I, yeah, pretty fun. Yeah. Yeah. I'm getting geared up.

I'm really excited for herping this season. That's going to be fun. For sure. If you need to nail down some dates, you got some dates. I know. Well, yeah. So, again, like I said, I've been super busy. So I've just been, you know, I got kind of a lot of changes going on with work and busy with my personal life.

And so I need to set aside where we're quickly approaching. So I think the nice thing is going to be – I don't know about you, but I don't give a shit about you know uh nice accommodations or glamping or i mean i'm you know i'm i'm planning on doing a tent and um you know doing it doing it like southern arizona so yeah sounds like you know sounds like jordan's kind of the same way yeah yeah so um he's got a bunch of rough at men so we should be be good. Yeah, we'll see how it goes. That should be a fun trip. All right, 43 was working for the pros with Billy Hunt. Working for the pros.

That was cool to have Billy on and hear his insights into working for kind of a big-name breeder. I guess he never did do that, did he? He tried or offered and and rejected or something. I felt, I thought, I kind of thought he had some experience, didn't he? I, I think he tried, but he never made it. So he just did it. No, maybe you're right. Well, I feel like he gave such good rationed arguments that I felt like he, you know what I mean?

Because he was the pro for working with the pros, wasn't he? Yeah, I think that's right. Yeah, wasn't he the pro side, I think? Yeah. I guess I need to revisit these. Well, maybe not. Was he the con? Wasn't I the pro side?

Wasn't I the – Maybe so. God, wait a minute. My memory is terrible. Yeah. Well, I mean – But I do remember that having Billy on was a nice thing. No, he does a fantastic job of arguing.

And he's doing a great job with the reptile business. Definitely. On his own. Definitely. I gave him a run. I remember that. I remember that. Yeah, man.

I mean, you know, I think, again, like a lot of fight clubs, it kind of cuts both ways. I think working for somebody has its advantages. It's like herping with somebody experienced. They kind of show you the shortcuts a little bit. Look under this piece of tin and you probably find something. so go back to that same spot and you might find something. And you're kind of you're kind of stuck living in their success a little bit. Right. Because because their experience and their knowledge made them successful. And that's what they're kind of showing you.

And that's what you're learning. So you're not getting outside of that and potentially you're not – not to say you can't think out of the box too. But you're definitely – I know a lot of maybe pro breeders are like, this is the way we do it here. Do it this way or find somewhere else. For sure. I mean I completely understand. They don't want you messing with their –

That makes sense. I get why sense i get why i get why i mean you know you know if you mess up on their animals then you know that's not good for them on their table so yeah exactly for sure for sure yeah good stuff okay all right next one, genetic defects and morphs. Oh, boy. Should we be breeding? So there was that new paper that came out that was – Yeah, we haven't talked about morphs in a while, huh? I know.

I almost thought it was a dead topic, but – The new paper that came out talking about spider gene and ball pythons. Oh, yeah, yeah. It's an underdeveloped inner ear yeah rather than okay well you know for for a long time i think the the you know reigning hypothesis was that it was a neural crest migration thing yeah you know with the reduced melanin they thought that maybe that maybe uh had reduced neural crest uh migration as well and so you you had um defects in the mental uh area but this is just a balance yeah balance thing so they have a

fully competent mental uh brain you know their brain is fine allegedly allegedly yeah but you know i guess i've been busy or dizzy busy i've been dizzy you know where you like i don't know so i started wearing earplugs when i swim and then i have these little bone conduction headphones so i can listen to music while i work out you know do my laps in the water. Oh, that's crazy. Yeah. It's pretty fun. So it goes through, so you can, it's not bad. Like it's pretty dang good. Yeah. So it's kind of fun. And, and yeah, they've come, come a little ways. Cause I used to have some that you had to put in your ears and they had like little earplug type things. And so I wore those for a number of years. And then after I switched to the bone

conduction ones, I, you know, I didn't have anything in my ears and I started swimming and I got really dizzy. Like I, I didn't do well swimming laps with, without earplugs in cause the water would get in and throw my balance off, proprioception off. So now I have to wear earplugs when I swim, but you know, if I go snorkeling or something, I'm okay to swim around and snorkel without earplugs. But if I'm doing laps, I need earplugs in. It's kind of crazy. Yeah. And I, and I, one, one fell out when I was in the pool the other day and I couldn't find where it went or where I lost it. And so I had to go, and I have extra pairs in my swim bag. So you were like, just like a jag in the water just doing loopy loops.

Exactly. I don't know which way is up. I'm freaking out, man. Yeah. So I know how a jag feels. Yeah. And for the record, my grandmother had, when I was a little kid, had a rotary phone at her house. So we have gone from I lived in the era of a rotary phone.

Did you not have rotary phones? What's that? You didn't have a rotary phone in your house? Just your grandparents? We had them. Oh, man. I mean I – That's all we had back in the day.

I guess my family – I guess my dad was hip, dude. I don't know what to say. You guys were ahead of the curve yeah so my dad my dad was like we had he he got a cell one of the first like car cellular phones and those giant bricks yeah it was like it was so he had one battery pack here yeah you carry it it's like uh the briefcase yeah yeah and then and then the one that like mounts with the cord to the big box that was like in the back so it's like yeah yeah wow oh yeah you guys are way out of the curve i feel we're rocking the rotary phone well into the well i think my parents still have one in their basement that's awesome that's awesome yeah it's

pretty funny i showed my kids a rotary phone they're like what do you do with that like they did not they did not you know like the grasping the concept so anyway that is to say crazy man from rotary phones to bone conduction headphones that you can listen to underwater uh pretty pretty crazy man pretty crazy yeah technology's fun yeah i but you know makes you think is so i don't know does that change our thoughts on you know jags and should they be bred because it's not a a mental defect it's not a mental you know a brain dysfunction it's a just an inner ear balance thing should they you know I don't know. I mean, again, like I cannot speak to, yeah, I cannot speak to like other people's ethic of like what, where their line is. I just know that, you know, I was cool with Jags and I bred Jags until I got one that was really fucked up. And that really bothered me.

And most people that I know that have, you know, have similar experiences where they're like, this thing is just so bad. Like, I feel so bad. It's not like, you know, maybe it eats and is fine and, you know, does all of its normal functions, but gosh, it's just like thud, thud, thud. Yeah, it's pretty sad to watch. For me, it's like nothing – even if they told me that with reptile therapy, they could cure it. I don't know that I would change my mind if I saw an animal that was – like I just – I think costals are really cool and jags are okay. And some of the crosses that they – that are made with jags are cool. But I feel like the lackluster of Jags wore off for me.

And I just, you know, the, the luster of, of regular ass carpets hasn't. So, um, you know, if you want to breed them, breed them, but it's not my, it's not my thing. Not my thing. I think I've just kind of lost, lost much interest for morphs in general, but you know, I agree. i do i do appreciate the look of a nice i mean yeah like i mean going through the book like seeing more it's like oh that's awesome that's cool but you know is that what you know is that what blows my skirt up you know keep it here at the house no not anymore i got i got much more excited over the

wild type stuff. Yeah. I mean – Thinking about seeing some of those wild carpets. And that's the – That's what folds my boat. I guess that's the other half is when you look at some of the wild stuff and how different and how just like how it blows your archetypal thoughts of what this carpet or that carpet is. Then, yeah, I mean, deal done for me. So moving on. Yeah. Diverse versus specialized collections. And I think this was, this is kind

of timely with, uh, I listened to Alan Rapaci on project herpetoculture and, you know, what a great show. Um, he was talking about kind of a little bit of the responsibility. Not yet. I saw that Ron... You saw Ron. I did see that. I just don't know if I have time before my

work trip to give that justice. We'll have to get that scheduled. That'll be a fun discussion. You've got to get pipe-per yeah but kind of his his take on you know we kind of have a responsibility for some of these species to establish them you know so instead of buying a pair of you know 50 different species we buy 50 pairs of one species or you know that kind of. So I think that's, you know, that definitely would provide some genetic diversity and a future source for that species.

Now, how do you how do you feel about the idea that like, well, let's say you're you know, you're not you're not you're not wide, but you're deep, you know? Yeah. I mean, I enjoy it. Yeah, of course. I definitely think that's kind of a way to go, and I think it's a good model moving forward, I think. But what happens when something like your health declines

and you stop reading it and it becomes the – The Bert Langworth. So thank you. Yep. Thank you. Yeah. So, I mean, and, and that's, to me, that's the real, that's really the issue. And, and gosh, man, I hate, you know, I hate to say it and it's not, you know, it's not in whole, but you know, the Tracy really showed me like, it's about the challenge for most people. And once it's been done, they're kind of like, I don't care about that as much anymore because somebody did it. You do have to find those passionate individuals that just care, that care so much about this. And that's hard to do because people's interests change.

And people's situations change. I mean, you know. And people's situations change. And so it's like, you know. And especially with a large snake or, you know, a big python or something, you know, it's hard to justify that. And, you know, I think that we do have to consider, especially with hobbyist breeders, you know. And maybe he's speaking more to professional breeders but hobbyist breeders i mean if maybe maybe it does go more towards hobbyist breeders though i don't know it's hard to say because we you know we can't sit on 50 60 babies that you know if you're if you're producing from all those yeah and i feel like

professional breeders they have to chase a market you know what i mean they don't they don't have a choice in some so it does kind of fall on the hobbyists right yeah they're yeah i mean i think those are the breed those are the people with disposable you know quote unquote disposable income to chase their you know whatever whatever is their, you know, whatever, whatever is their, their, you know, preferred reptile or passion or Avenue or thing. Or you make your market, you know, you get people excited, you know, personal people can do that. I'm not the, the best for that.

Like I don't go to a lot of reptile shows. I don't, you know, interact with many people other than you and a couple others you know and it's it's i feel like that's such a hard that's such a hard thing making your own market too like you're literally you know either and so this is my thing is either the animal really is a great you know a great species to work with or it's kind of not or it's kind of nipper in like you know it's got hey it's it's really pretty but it's not personable so you know it's it's not a handleable pet it's you know it's there's there's you know you got to find the right um the right nipper for it right and and you know, the idea of like trying to make something

more mainstream than maybe it ever will be is kind of a tough, you know, well, I I've kind of found that with Western Stimson's pythons, like I've got a pretty big collection. I mean, this, the, the downside is, is they're kind of a bottleneck. You know, they only came from a pair or two, you know, and so it's really hard to diversify that. But, you know, I've got a lot of breeders. I don't produce from each pair every year, and I try to mix it up. So, you know, you get a little diversity, but, you know. And we kind of agree that a lot of carpets kind of stuff came from yeah a pair of thinner like and maybe there's limited gene pools yeah i mean we're a lot of the

australian stuff yeah yeah so i'm not too too worried about that but at the same time it's like you know i'm i'm i feel like i'm kind of doing that for that species. I agree. Or subspecies or whatever you want to call it. But locality. Race. I feel like I'm happy to have those. But if my herb room burned down tomorrow, that would be a big loss in regards to western stems. I've been very fortunate and done very well with those. And I've put them in quite a few hands.

So hopefully there's, you know, a bunch out there that, you know, I could get some back down the road. I think that's a great example. And Antaresia for you is a great example of, you know, kind of specializing in a group of pythons that really, know wasn't like i don't i mean i don't know that they were necessarily underrepresented but but you know i i definitely think you have done well enough with them and and across you know the the the genus that um you know they're out there you know like the westerns are they're out there, you know, like the Westerns are, they're out there now that those probably aren't going anywhere. And so, you know, you, you know, if, if God forbid that did happen, you know, probably wouldn't be the end of Western stems in this country. Right. So,

yeah. You know, that's a, they're in a kudos, Justin hands. Yeah. So, you know, I, I, I don't know that I take complete credit for that. Cause there's others that have come in through, through Europe and stuff. But, um, so it is what it is, but yeah, I feel like I've done, I, I, I don't know of anybody else who has produced as many as I have in the U S you know, very, very rarely is anything in reptiles, a singular effort, right? Sure. Yeah. So, yeah.

And you need that. Like I said, like if you're, I mean, even with Bert, like he, he had the, this amazing collection and he had several different, you know, pairs of, of different species, hard to find species. And he was producing a lot of animals and selling a lot of animals. And I think that's kind of a double-edged sword because when people look at something and say, Oh, it's just a common, you know, it's a $50 water dragon, Australian water dragon, you know, I only need a pair of those. I don't want to buy, you know, six pairs of those. And so when he dies, everybody that just had a pair or, you know, wasn't actively producing and who wants to try to compete with Bert, you know?

Right. Exactly. You've got, I'm not going to set up some giant, uh, cause he's the Australian water dragon guy. Why would I set up, you know, 20 breeders to try to compete? But I think that's kind of the right wrong attitude to have because you know, I think, uh, especially if you're obvious, you don't have to breed those. Maybe you don't have to set up 20 pairs.

But maybe the attitude is you should breed them but you have to breed them at a – maybe everyone should breed them at a level that isn't quite so – Or once you're kind of like, yeah, I mean, I obviously, you know, a death is, is hard to predict, but like, you know, you, you've bred them for a decade and you're like, when he's keeping him in those self-designed outdoor caging and things like that, you know, it's tricky. And, and I believe somebody did buy a gamma international after he passed away, but I didn't see much after that. Like, yeah, kept going. I don't think it's still going. So kind of sad. All right. Well, something to think about yeah

i think time to move on um the next one was our one year celebration yay quiz show so just for that let's flip a coin we need to see all right i feel like yeah yeah that's tails it's heads sorry buddy i'll take the win this week all right well moving on again yeah no need to dwell on keeping this was a great show with ron saint pierre yeah man the myth the legend um that was a lot of fun to to hear his stories about outdoor the challenges of keeping animals outdoors the The outdoor Mike Tyson of Fight Club. Yeah. That's right.

Yep. We got to get him in here to battle another heavyweight, Alan Rapashi. Alan Rapashi, Holyfield. Yes. Yeah. There we go. But, yeah, that was really interesting to hear some of the challenges that you wouldn't think of, you know where a tree line is or you know setting up a cage and thinking about the different seasons that are coming up you know that you need to consider or unexpected high amounts of rain or snow or cold

you know when you're not anticipating it or you need to have that plan for what to do when those inclement weather hits or a flood or something you know you need to have a place for all those animals to go and and a plan you know that's the main thing yeah because when you know weather was coming he'd be out there covering up all the cages with thick plastic and and protect them from the weather and they could you know endure in those cages outside. Very rarely would we have to pull them in, you know, maybe a hurricane or something, but yeah, I don't know. I think there's, you know, that's a lot easier to control indoors. And I, I remember, uh, Frank Reedy's talking about that where, you know, he kept all those monitors and

he kept some outdoors and he said it just wasn't as – his production wasn't as good outdoors as it was indoors. But you look at Ron and his Ackies and the roaches that he's got going on and he said, oh, I wasn't – they weren't eating the food I was giving them, but they were just fat and happy. And I feel like as long as they're getting their other requirements, I mean, that's pretty much Ackie's – that's like feed them, heat them, breed them. That's pretty much that. So I think a lot of it really has a lot to do with some of and I mean, I don't think Ron intended to breed roaches in that, in that kind of composting pile, but he kind of did. And that's, it was a surprise. He didn't know how to stand so fight and fat and not eating the food. So yeah, that was a cool revelation. And then just, you know, it's really hard to, to mimic the outdoors, you know, in an enclosure.

So if you can have a larger outdoor that's, you know, subject to the elements. We don't know the effects of, like, cold and hot spells and, you know, brumation and hibernation and estivation even, you know. Yeah. So those are different things that, you know, we can, that could benefit them in some unmeasurable way. For sure. No, I mean, I think, you know, definitely from keeping my diamonds outside, like, you know, the seasonal signal outside is very strong, very strong compared to inside, right? Like they're definitely, there's no missing the cue that they're getting, you know, being outside. So I, you know, and I think that is, that is kind of a, you know, if not one of the big, like,

should be a big indicator to people of like, hello, like, okay, maybe, you know, I need to rethink how I think. Especially with diurnal reptiles too. Like, you know, I need to rethink how I think. Sure. Especially with diurnal reptiles too. Like, you know, trying to mimic the sun in a cage is not, I mean, and you know, where I live, I, I'm only able to keep stuff outdoors. Maybe, you know, depending on the species, maybe three or four months, five, four, five months out of the year at the most, you know, so otherwise the conditions are just not great for that. And, and, you know, so otherwise the conditions are just not, uh, great for that. And, and, you

know, I think you, like, like Ron said, you kind of go through some pain, you know, you go, you know, you build a cage and then you realize, Oh, it's in the wrong spot. Now I got to tear it down and start over. Or, you know, now these animals aren't going to breed this year because they didn't get this, you know, the, the sun they needed or something. So, you know, that can be a tricky thing and a painful and expensive thing. If you, you know, it's hard, they're hard earned lessons and expensive lessons sometimes, but you know, the benefits that they can have may outweigh those. Clearly Ron's big thing is he's paid the piper to get the experience, know and and having to do iterations that this didn't work or that didn't work and having to go back and redo it again and you know

that's you know that's part of that dedication to figuring it out that's why sure that's why he's the man you know what i mean yeah most people be like oh the other group is up i'm moving on you know yeah right the other thing i i liked about Bert's philosophy was keep stuff that will survive, you know, your climate. And there is a guy down in Salt Lake that keeps Russian tortoises outdoors year-round. He gives them, like, a big bale of hay or something to go under during, you know, the winter months, covers it up with plastic so they're protected from the snowfall. But they stay outdoors and babies hatch in his yard you know so they're basically just wild tortoises living in in a fenced-in enclosure in utah so yeah you know that's that's uh kind of cool and

you know the i think if you're choosing the right species like i you know i kind of saying oh five months but you could keep some species outdoors year round yeah birds seem to think i could keep uh water dragons you know for the most part outdoors uh as long as i protected them from the elements so kind of cool um anything else to add to that nah moving on all right tech for reptiles tech for rept, tech for reptiles. Tech for reptiles. Tech for reptiles. It's great when it works. If it malfunctions, it can make your life kind of miserable for a bit. Yeah.

Heat tape burning down your reptile room is not the best. That's huge. So choose your tech wisely. A lot of times we make decisions based on cost or things like that, and sometimes the animals pay the price for that. So we need to keep that in mind if you're looking at tech. But I think there's a lot of cool, new, and fairly affordable things that could up our game a bit.

You know, the little Govee the govi govis is that what they are yeah little govi uh remote temperature chips where you can put them in a cage and see the cycle you know the the temperature cycle in your cage and yeah um different things like that i i bought a bunch for the incubator i'm going to try to you know do a couple different studies to see yeah to try try some different incubation techniques or temperatures see their effects but nice so yeah things like that and the you know the ultrasound i'm kind of excited to mess with that that's a pretty cool tech gadget to see inside your snake to see if she's developing follicles or I heard somebody say that you can sex animals that way but I'm uh huh I might have to give that a try see if there's anything you can see to

you know with males and females but um yeah I don't know that it's it's kind of fun to uh if you can get some some of the like I I heard them talking about this on Carpets and Coffee, I think it was, where they were talking about the ipers and their gradual lighting that started on one side of the cage and moved across the top to the other side, kind of like simulating sunrise and sunset. Yeah. And like lightning and, you know, when they have storms roll through, they have lightning flashes. Flashes like strobe light. That's cool. I think that might be more for, I don't know if that's going to have any effect on the reptiles. Maybe it's more for the keepers, but still kind of cool.

I think it's one of those things where you're kind of pushing the aesthetic of your keeping. And there's definitely a place for that, right? Like, I think, you know. And, you know, who knows? Maybe it does have an effect and, you know, they'll find benefits to that. I think certainly zoos with the amount of people that they get through there could, you know, go as far as they should or could go with their aesthetic to make the experience, you know, even if the experience is more valuable for the human than it is for the animal, you know. with LEDs and different UV wavelengths and things like that. It's kind of exciting to think about. And hopefully that progresses and becomes a very useful part of our hobby and things like that.

Yeah. All right. Next one, episode 49, breeding females over subsequent years. I saw a recent discussion, I think it was from, uh, Dominique, uh, Carbino, uh, who we had on the show a little while back, uh, where he had a female jungle that he was trying to give a year off and she laid eggs, you know, she lays eggs pretty much every year, whether she's been with a male or not. And, and I think in captivity where they have kind of that, you know, unending supply of resources, the proper heat, the pretty mild temperatures as far as that goes, endless food, you know, the females are probably thinking, hey, this is great. I'm going to put my genes out there. So, you know, it's not to say that you have to hatch out every egg that that's laid, but you know, sometimes they're going to lay whether you breed them or not. And it's not really, I mean, in the end, it's not really up to you, no matter how much you want to think that it is so yeah yeah so let's think uh i think they you know in captivity

most most and i think there are definitely some exceptions to those rules you know certain snakes that maybe um that reproduction's a little harder on them maybe like a green tree python or you know maybe they're not designed or evolved to reproduce over subsequent years. They only reproduce every third year or something. And so every year might be a little much. Yeah, I think a lot of factors, a lot of variables there. Yeah, definitely a fun topic to to discuss and then uh number 50 uh caging do it yourself or purchase oh so tough so tough yeah i did i did purchase some cages recently they're the uh

they're from dubia.com that you kind of assemble them yourself yeah they come like broken down uh-huh they're like uh metal they are they are the tracks and you slide the pvc into them and stuff oh i got you i got you yeah what do you think them together they're not bad i i installed some lights in there did you have your gurnia in these? No, no. Those were ExoTerras that I decked out for, yeah. These were recent purchases. Reaches. Okay, okay. Yeah, so I set up a stack of them for Blue Tongue Skinks.

So I think I have six of them. So, yeah, I think I'm fairly happy with them, you know, for the price especially. I think they were only like $125 or something like that, you know, for, I think they're what, three foot by 18 inches or something. Oh, nice. Yeah. Yeah. That's a pretty good price for those. A little bigger than they had before they had lighting, you know, and all this, well, they had lighting before, but you know, little, little, uh, more compact, uh, compared to what i had them in

before so i i'm i'm pretty happy with them now they don't have a lot of height on them i think they're only 12 inches tall but for a blue tongue skink that's i was gonna say our blue tongue skinks like you know falling out of trees i mean ron says they'll climb quite a bit and yeah that's fair cages he made you know but um i think they're okay to sit on the ground as well. So, yeah. Um, giving them,

you know, a lot of cage furniture to move in and under and around. So hopefully it, uh, keeps them happy, but yeah, they seem to be doing all right. And those,

uh, just got them set up a couple of weeks ago. So nice. Nice. Yeah. I typically like the DIY, but there was an exception at this point. Yeah, I mean, I've done both. We're getting old.

We have less time. We're busy. Yeah, exactly. I've only got so many hours in my life left. So do I want to spend it building cages or just let the professionals do it and yeah spend spend cost was always an issue for me earlier you know so no for sure for sure diy to save money but and you know there's nothing wrong with that and i probably still will will do it from here because you can design it how you want it and you know a lot of these

cookie cutter cages are based on you know the size of a sheet of plywood. Well, now you're a multi-millionaire, multi-published author and world-renowned. If only books made a lot of money. Yeah, I feel you. I am down to one case, one and a half cases of the books. Nice. They sell pretty well, yeah. Yeah, that's good.

I think I need to put another order in. Yeah, pick up some more books if they have many left. I think we've sold quite a few of them. An excuse to go. They're going to be out of print before we know it. Yeah, yeah. I just sent off a book or two today, so. Nice.

Good times. Yeah, I mean, I do. I mean, I'm a crafty guy, you know. I definitely see the value in being able to kind of construct something that works to your specifications or to your liking, which may not always be the most reasonable thing when you're having somebody else build cages or whatever, but gosh, man, you know, um, PVC, those, those, you know, high precision PVC cages, they're, you know, great tolerances or durable cages. They work really well. You know, I just, yeah, it's tough to beat those things those ones i got from you are

working great and you know i i just got i just got some some animal plastic cages and they're doing great i love them so it's like yeah yeah i yep tough to tough to poo poo those nice cages like that yeah but i mean if you can get the plastic for, you know, you can probably make the cages for about half the price, especially if you get it cut and all ready to go, you just assemble them. And I just, I really, I really like the, you know, you put it on a CNC lathe and it's like, you know, down to the thousandth, uh, five, you know, two, three thousandths of an inch. Like, you know, that's, um, of an inch, that's kind of nice.

It's nice. Everything goes together exactly. And you know, when you're cutting it, trust me, your table saw ain't that square. Yeah, right. You know. But at the same time,

you know. But there's options for that. Yeah, you can have Lowe's or Home Depot cut it there. Yeah, they're table-sized. That's how it works. Yeah, not as square as a CNC, that's for sure. Yeah, definitely. All right, well, that's our clip show.

We're through another 10 episodes. All right. Nice. So, you know, if you didn't hear any of those and they sounded interesting, go back and give them a shot, give them a listen. See if you have any

additional insights or ideas to build on those topics. We're happy to take any suggestions. We appreciate all the suggestions that have been made and the people who've come on. It's been a lot of fun. Yeah, looks like any, I don't know, any big topics to bring up?

Looks like our buddy Lucas got a clutch of Womas on the ground. They were nice looking, too. Dude, Woma. Yeah. He's a Woma man. I know. He's got a couple clutches didn't yeah yeah freaking he's gonna be swimming in woman he's gonna regret his woman his womanism he's womanizing yes the womanizer womanizer

yeah now as long as he's making that's your job what am i making these things up for i'm sure sack is very proud of him that was him yeah we got to make sure that's clear we we we really uh like zach and and would never you know ridicule him if it wasn't from his grandstand. No, his son gave him a nickname. That was not us. I listened to Kluberids and Kluberoid last night while I was cleaning the rodents. And they had Connor Wardle on who's breeding Coach Whips. So that's kind of a cool thing.

Less seen species that's worked with, but such a cool snake. I feel like Coach Whips would be hard to breathe. Yeah. Like they need a room size. They're like the, the United States reticulated Python, but yeah, they're just so active and so fast.

I'm fast. They can cover, you know, 20 feet in a half a second. Almost. Yeah. They're really fast. They're the Usain Bolt of there you go yeah i still remember me me yeah me and ben were out herping uh saint george and we

hadn't there was it was a herp trip like for the herpetology class and so we were out there and we saw a coach whip and it went under a rock and so we're like okay we got this one there's no way he's gonna get away so me and this and it was a pretty big rock me and this other guy lifted the rock and we're like okay ben we lift it you grab it we lifted it up the snake went right through his legs before he even had a chance to react and it was like it was gone like no no catching this yeah i feel i feel like those snakes like that they view life in more frames per second than we do like they're just gone and they're like something you know like yeah but i i think they're such cool snakes yeah i caught a striped whip snake down in southern utah when i went with

my daughter um we saw i saw it out and then it zipped into this bush and like under a rock or something and so i thought well maybe we come here, and it'll still be there. And we came back, and it was kind of partway in the bush, and he wasn't paying attention. I was able to grab him before he took off. I don't even think he tried to bite me. It was pretty nice snake. They're beautiful. At least they're like, look, if you can catch me, fine.

I respect. I'll be respectful, yeah. Yeah, and we were pretty calm you know pretty easy going with it like it was yeah it did musk me that's not the best smell but i found a nice trick for that if you get that squeeze on your hands from a snake you can grab like a sage brush and just rub the sage brush in your hands it takes the smell away it's kind of nice then you got a nice sage smell instead of that foul squeeze yeah you just got to get got to get say get squeezed in southern california there's plenty of sage yeah white sage don't get squeezed unless you've got sage yeah

all right well anything else to add i i got nothing. Shout out to the Podfather. Moreliapythonsradio.com. Give them a listen. Oh, the upcoming Carpet Fest. Oh, yes. Yeah, they announced it. Was it August 12th? I think I'm going to make the trip out there.

Are you? Nice. I got to make a Northeast Carpet Fest, so I'm going to plan on it, I think. Finally make the pilgrimage to the fatherland or whatever you call that. That's good. Well, I don't think Eric has to worry about you jumping off his roof into his pool. Well, that was what I was going to do. That was the whole reason I'm going.

That was. Oh, you wild man. Eric's in for it, man. I'm all jacked up. No one's going to. He's leading DDP. Woo. He thought Wheeler was crazy, man.

Wait till he gets a load of me. That's right. He's been on trips with me. He knows. Yeah. He knows what I'm capable of. Yep. All right. he's been on trips with me he knows what I'm capable of yep he just gave me enough

dirty soda and I'm a party animal give me that dirty soda alright August 12th is when they're having carpet fest I don't know, you gonna try to make that? you think you could make it? I doubt it

alright well I'll represent the RFC You going to try to make that? You think you could make it? No? I doubt it. Oh. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, I'll represent the RFC. Yep. You got to hold it down for me. Challenge the lot of them. That's right.

We'll do one of those. That's right. Yeah. I'll do a rapid fire fight, you know. There you go. We'll get a bunch of them to fight me all at once. Yeah. Yeah.

Yep. All right. Well, this has been another episode of Reptile Fight Club. Thanks for listening and we'll catch you next week. Julander coming off the top turnbuckle. Oh my God. Thank you.