Reptile Fight Club - People coming into the hobby through Social Media.

Episode Date: August 27, 2021

In this episode, Justin and Chuck tackle the topic of In this episode, Justin and Chuck tackle the topic of social media and the pros and cons of coming into the reptile hobby through social media.Who will win? You decide. Reptile Fight Club!Follow Justin Julander @Australian Addiction Reptiles-http://www.australianaddiction.comFollow Chuck Poland  on IG @ChuckNorriswinsFollow MPR Network on:FB: https://www.facebook.com/MoreliaPythonRadioIG: https://www.instagram.com/mpr_network/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtrEaKcyN8KvC3pqaiYc0RQMore ways to support the shows.Swag store: https://teespring.com/stores/mprnetworkPatreon: https://www.patreon.com/moreliapythonradio

Welcome to the MGR Network. All right, welcome to another episode of Reptile Fight Club. With me as always is my co-host, Chuck Pullen. Hello, how's everybody doing? And I am Justin Julander, and we are all about fighting on this podcast. If you've listened to us before, you kind of get how it goes, and it may not be the most drag, drag out, you know, knockdown fight, but, uh, we have a good time discussing a topic. If you're new to the podcast, thanks for listening and we welcome you. Um, so yeah, we're, uh, excited to fight.

What's going on with you, man? Got anything going on? Let's see what's going on with me. Um, yeah, so I've got, I, I got, got some more grandest eggs. I've got, uh, five, five, uh, eggs in the incubator again. So it just, you know, some come out, some go in, some come out, some go in. So that's, that's a nice steady thing. Um, those are kind of like clockwork, right? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. So, um, just, just trying to, I've got, uh, um yeah those are kind of like clockwork right yeah that you watch to their clutch yeah yeah so um just just trying to i've got um my standing eye are are to the point where i have like five females and i have one really big male and he he's he's good size and so i'm just trying to get those females up a little bit bigger uh uh, before I start doing introductions, but that should be pretty prolific once it gets going. I'm, I'm excited about that. I really want to produce standing. I, they're just, they're, they're super of, of Felsuma. I just, they're super awesome. So, um, really excited about that. Um, yeah, everything else is just kind of progressing for the season. Um, you know, same old, same old.

How about you, dude? Yeah. Just, uh, trying to get all this, uh, years babies feeding. I've got a couple, uh, shows coming up, uh, the reptilian nation expo is coming up at the end of the month here. So that'll be kind of fun. It's a new show in, in the area. So we'll, I'll be curious to see how that one turns out.

And then we've got the Tried and True Wasatch Reptile Expo coming up in October. So it should be fun if you're in the Utah area. Is that really big? I mean, is that the biggest? I mean, it's compared to what? It's the only show in Utah, really, that's had much staying power, and it's been going on for a long time. Well, I've never been to a Utah reptile show, so I'm not sure. I mean, you know, are they, obviously, probably not any RBC big, but, you know, probably decent size or what?

Yeah, we fill up kind, one of the buildings at the fairgrounds. I mean, I'm trying to think of how many vendors there's, there's quite a few. I mean, it's a, it's, it's fun. I mean, it's yeah. Nowhere near any RBC show, but it's definitely a pretty good size reptile show. You can spend a few hours there. No problem. I like it most just to kind of catch up with some of the local breeders and keepers in the area that, you know, you see them, you know, once or twice a year and usually reptile expo, unless you go out herping with them or something. So it's kind of fun from, from that point of view, just not necessarily to just sell my animals, but also to see, uh, some of the people in the area. Yeah. We've got the reptile super show coming up here in San Diego. So in September, so I'm,

I'm going, I gotta get, I gotta get, I gotta get back up here in San Diego in September. So I'm going. I got to get back to a reptile show. I feel like I'm going crazy. COVID just jacked me up. When did we vend that one? It's been a while, hasn't it? Yeah, and that was up north, wasn't it? Oh, that was in Pomona, wasn't it?

Pomona. That was the big. As far as Super Shows goes, that's like the big super show um yeah that was a fun show i really enjoyed it was and it was a good show they i like that venue and um you know the the super show in san diego is good it's just not it's not quite pomona you just don't quite get the same draw i don't think. But still, I'm happy to just get back to it. Reptile show, for Christ's sake. I'd like to start vending

some of those shows down in California again just to have an excuse to get down and hang out with you. Come on down, dude. Yeah, man. You can stay at Hotel Julander or you can stay at Hotel Poland. Either way you want to do it, man. Yeah, it's good times.

But yeah, I enjoy those shows. I like going to a reptile show and vending a show. Me too, man. It's weird for people who are like, I'm over reptiles. I'm like, oh, really? I mean, it is nice to peruse the tables, but just chatting people up and meeting people and, you know, that's good, man. It's so nice. And the Wasatch show was one of the few that was going.

I know there were people driving up from California just to get to a reptile show because everything was shut down in California. They weren't going back and we're a pretty red state. So they don't. Yeah. Damn you, Gavin Newsom. No, no, here in Utah. No, I know. In California. That's what I'm saying. Gavin Newsom's on the outs in California. He's, he's not very well liked. Yeah. He, he, he got quite a bit of bad publicity, uh, over, uh, COVID.

So, yeah. Yeah. Otherwise just, you know, working with my stuff, trying to get it to feed, trying to, you know, get stuff, uh, COVID. So, yeah. Yeah. Otherwise just, you know, working with my stuff, trying to get it to feed, trying to, you know, get stuff, uh, keep everything happy and healthy. And yeah,

it's, uh, sweet fun working with reptiles. I guess that's why we're, why are, why we're all in this, but yeah. Cool.

Well, uh, you, you ready to, to fight? Do we want to start our topic now? Sure. Let's do this.

We're going to be talking about a controversial subject, the social media and the new up-and-coming reptile keepers, new people in the hobby coming in kind of through the social media side or YouTube or that kind of stuff. So the idea of whether that's a good thing or a bad thing. Yeah. Yeah. Kind of pros and cons. You hear a lot of people kind of complain about that. All these newbies coming in there, they get all their knowledge from a YouTube video and then they think they're an expert. You know, I, I don't know. I've seen a lot of kind of good up and coming, you know, keepers. And,

and I, I don't necessarily think that's all necessarily a bad thing. So we'll, we'll kind of talk about the, the pros and cons and some of the things to maybe avoid if you're new to the hobby, uh, and you've come in, in this day and age, it's a little tricky to navigate and you got all these ornery old guys like Chuck, that's going to complain about all the rapscallions on his yard, you know. Get off my yard, you damn kids. I feel like you knew what was going on in my head. I need you like a book, man. Man, that's amazing. That's amazing. See people, that's true friendship. Yeah. True friendship. Right there. So my youngest kid, she made a little like mock podcast where she like interviewed her sister and her mom and she interviewed me. And it was like, she's calling it, you know, the people of the, what was it?

Like the faces of the reptile world or, you know, reptile fans or something like that. And so she interviewed me and asked me like all these questions about when I started keeping and you know, how, why, why I enjoy it and stuff. So she's a little podcaster in the making her mom. That's awesome. Have like a YouTube, YouTube channel, but she's very creative and she's just like all about, she's trying to learn scientific name. She's kind of asked me if she could keep some of the, you know, have some of the snakes in the collection. So I let her kind of put her name on some of my holdbacks and she's been taking care of those. And so it's really fun to see her get excited about it, you know, cause my other kids were,

you know, excited about maybe showing them to their class, but they never really got into it, you know, enough to come out and help in the reptile room. My, my son, my oldest kid, Jake, he would help out in the mouse room, but I was paying him, you know, so, and he didn't really enjoy it that much. I think it might have pushed him away from keeping reptiles more than anything, but he, you know, he kept a few growing up and all, all the kids have had some kind of pet or another. So, you know, it's, it's a little tricky this day and age. And, you know, I remember, well, I guess we can save that for the discussion. I won't get into it too much here, but let's go ahead with the coin toss

and let's have you lose real quick so we can get on. Hold on, hold on. I haven't even thought about what side I want to take here. Yeah. Okay, well. All right, all right. right let's go let's go i got it i got it here we go i'm gonna show you i guess i'm the crotchety old man so the side i it should be natural i don't know why i'm debating this yeah all right ready i'm calling

heads oh my goodness the week i week i decided to show you. People, he showed it to me, so it is legit. It is legit. Not to say the previous ones weren't legit, but you won fair and square this time, and I showed you. Okay. Oh, man. How does it feel? How does it feel?

I don't know how to feel right now. I'm rushed with emotion and confusion. Isn't it a good feeling, man? I'm kind of used to it, you know? So it's, it's kind of second nature to me. This is how the other half lives. I got it. I got it. Yeah. I'm feeling a little, the bitterness is rising, you know, I'm a little angry that I lost it. Well, you know what? Take that, take that times.

I don't know how many podcasts we've done. I've won one, I've won one coin toss. So, you know, uh, that's, that's, that's however many that is. That's how, that's how I am. I'm, I'm very happy for you. This is, this is a big day for you. No, it is a big day. It truly is. And I hope everybody out there will help me celebrate in, you know, my one win and freaking however long that is but uh it doesn't mean i'm gonna take it easy on you with this discussion oh i know you're not i know you're not no i mean yeah i i mean i i feel like you probably have uh reasons not to take it easy on me but but you know that's fine that's fine i i would i wouldn't want you to show

up at anything less than your best. So are you going crotchety old man or are you going? Yeah. Yeah. I'll take crotchety old man. Yeah. I feel like, yeah, I feel like that's good. Yeah.

I'll take, I'll take it. Yeah. Well, I think, I think I've got you by a few. Don't aren't I older than you? How old are you? I'm four. I'll be 45 in September. Okay. So I am a year older, but a year and a couple months.

So I should have been, I was in the military, so I'm just, Oh, that's true. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, yeah. Bad. I mean, sailors just cuss and drink and you know, they complain. That's a happy sailor is a bitching sailor. That's what they say and they are right they are right this will fit you perfectly oh i'm i'm there we go on baited breath okay well i'm i i don't know why i'm gonna ask this but do you want to go first are you gonna defer are you so happy with your win are you gonna going to check it? Okay, you're going to check it over to me.

See what I did there. You see what I'm sure you've never heard any of those kind of jokes. Hey, check it, man. That's awesome. You're going to check it over. All right, here we go. I'll try to give us a start here. So why is it, why is, you know, people coming in on social media a good thing? So,

so back in my day, you know, we had to go to a library and hope that they had, you know, something that contained information on, you know, some of the species where we were excited about or interested in. And so, you know, it was, it was a struggle and I spent a lot of time, you know, like anytime we'd go to a university or something like that, I'd, I'd hurry and run in and go down and find the reptile section and try to find what I could find in regards to reptiles. So I got pretty good at going to libraries, but I was a little disappointed in most of the collections and I couldn't really find much what I, what I wanted to find. And so, you know, today in these days, we've, we have the

internet, we have knowledge at the touch of our, you know, the tip of our fingers in our pockets, on our phones, you know, we, we can access information very readily and very easily. So if you're interested in something and you want to know about it, you can go straight to it. So I think, you know, people these days have, have a benefit. That's, that's really a, you know, an advantage to learning about a new species or getting into reptiles. You can learn so much very quickly in a lot of instances. So I think that's probably the biggest pro of being a newbie in the hobby these days is just the ready access of information. So I think people coming into the hobby are in a good place. And some of it is, frankly frankly kind of spoon fed, you know, they get, they get a lot of, um, information from, you know, videos and from, uh, different care sheets or, or online, you know, just asking, Hey, tell me about the species.

And there's people all around that have, you know, that have interest in those species and can share information or can share pictures. And so, you know, it's, it's almost a something, you know, when I was searching through the basement of a library would have been very appreciative of, I think. So that's kind of how I'd started out. Yeah, no, I think that's, um, well, I think that there's definitely a place for that. And, and in the information age, gosh, dang it, hopefully you get information. Right. So, you know, and I think the only concern I would have there is that not all information is good information. that will bombard you as a new person asking a question. And what they're really giving you is their opinion based on their limited experience, based on things that they've read or places they've gone. So it's all kind of a little maze of where they got their information,

how they came to it, and how successful they were based on that. And we've seen a lot that you can be very successful across the board. And, you know, that success, sometimes it's short-term success. It's not necessarily long-term success. And you can keep things alive and keep things going. And maybe that's not the best long-term strategy or, or the best, you know, breeding strategy or the best, you know, the best advice or, or whatever it is. Um, but, you know, there isn't really a, uh, an, an, an, an overarching kind of mandate to give you the, the,

the, you know, the, the, the most current information, the things that will help you, you know, uh, for your situation, right. If you're looking to breed, maybe that, um, you know, maybe that advice looks different from somebody who's just like, Hey, I just want a pet. I want to keep it as long as possible. Um, and so, you know, you're, you're bombarded with a lot of information and in the information age, I think that's probably the toughest, the toughest thing is, you know, the, the, the saturation of information and not all of it's good information. So I think that's probably, you know, the, the counter to that. So, yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, you know, I can see maybe a conflation of two different things. So one is availability of information. Now, anybody who

has gathered information knows there's good and maybe not so good, or maybe questionable information. And so, you know, that's, that's kind of a skill you develop as you get old like us, right? You learn how to weed through good and bad information. So that's, you know, something I would advise new keepers, you know, as you're coming articles published when I was younger, there's a lot of bad information in that, too. So it's not like it's any different. Maybe, you know, the volume of stuff you have to go through. Yeah, people might get a little overburdened with how much information there is. But if you're really excited and passionate about a species, I don't know that there can be too much information. You know, if you're really excited about a certain reptile you saw, I mean, frankly, it's what drove me to write books is, you know, I, I liked the species that I was, uh, you know, these species

I was interested in and wanted to learn more about them. And as I, you know, read as much as I could get my grubby little hands on, um. You know, I just kind of built that information. I thought, you know, that'd be nice to share this. And so that was kind of the, you know, why I, why I wanted to write books and, and partnered with other people with that same kind of attitude, you know, get the information out to people or people who were really good at sharing information. So that's, you know, that, so, so the information's out there and, you know, some, some forms are easier than others. And there's some,

some species we don't know hardly anything about, and it takes some digging. I was giving, uh, Lucas Lee a little bit of a little crap today. Cause I, I referred a paper to him and he said, oh, can, where can I, you know, can you give me that paper? And I'm like, I don't know, but I'll tell you where to find it. You know, I'll teach you how to fish and you can go fish yourself. I, you know, I, I had it right in my computer, you know, I could have easily just attached it to an email and send it over to him. But I thought, you know, let it, let him, let him figure out how to find this thing.

And he found it on, uh, I think it was reptiles, uh, website. That's where he found the link to it. So, you know, it was fairly easy to find this thing. And he found it on, I think it was reptiles website. That's where he found the link to it. So, you know, it was fairly easy to find for him. And it, you know, it was an older paper, 1990. So it was, I knew he could probably find it. And then if he couldn't, I'd of course send it over to him. But, you know, we, we I think we kind of have a little bit of a responsibility, kind of teach people how to, how to find information and how to think through information and process information. And I hope this podcast is, is part of that, you know, kind of thinking about both sides of an issue and not just hearing the first thing on, on a subject

and saying, okay, well, that's my side and I'm going to defend that till I die. You can think about the complexity of different issues and think about, you know, how two-sided every argument might be. But, you know, in the end you want to do what's best for you and what's best for the animals and what's, you know, what makes sense to you. So, and, and a lot of times we start out doing one thing and we learn, Oh, maybe that's not the most effective way. So experience is kind of the ultimate teacher, but you know, we have, have that opportunity to come in and, uh, get that information and, and also, uh, well, I'll, I'll stop there and let you chime in here. Cause I've got a few more other points to, to talk about. Yeah. So hold on. I'm writing something down. Um, so I think, yeah, no, no, no. Oh, I'm so sorry. Gosh. No, I, I, I think that, you know,

one of the things you said was, was talking about the, the, the, you know, understanding what's good information. And I don't think that, uh, you know, if what we're talking about is new people into the hobby or, or people coming into the hobby looking to understand something, I don't think they know the difference between good and bad information. They don't know anything they're looking for. So giving them good information off the bat, giving them the most solid information that they can find is kind of the trick, isn't it? And there's a lot of people out there and, you know there in a digital age. Anybody can go out and say whatever they want. And so it is a skill that you hopefully develop with age.

It's certainly one that I've developed. And you even said yourself that you get better with age. You understand what is wrong and what is right. And that doesn't come from social media. That comes from experience. That comes from making mistakes. That comes from, you know, doing and seeing and being a student of the serpent, not a student of social media. Now, that said, there is more than one way to skin a cat with keeping animals and keeping reptiles. And I think you can do okay enough with social media and get yourself down the road enough that you can become a student of the serpent. So I think, you know, social media as a get in the door may not be inappropriate, but to use social media, because I mean, like you said, you're

a published author. You're published with plenty of other highly competent reptile people. You are probably one of the best people to come to. But when people come onto the internet, they don't know who Dr. Justin Julander is. You know what I mean? And your book is not a foremost on their, uh, they have to get to that through that experience. So, you know, finding a way to, and, you know, I, I would say that it is true that, um, in the circles we run, they're small circles. So eventually they'll get to the, the more complete carpet, they'll get to the books that you've written. And it may take them some time and they may go through some heartache to get there. But I don't think that it's one of those things where

social media is okay for the evolution of a keeper, but ultimately it's a journey that everybody must figure out for themselves and, and knowledge that people must glean through others. That's not always best found in social media. Not everybody's giving good information, I guess is, is what I would say. Sure. Yeah. I mean, and again, you know, I'd say that was the same back, back in, before social

media, maybe it's just the quality, you know, over quality, but, um, I, I would, I would counter that and say, you know, you, you might. So, okay. So when I was a kid, um, I was, I was very fortunate. Uh, I don't know if you've heard of Louis Porras, uh, one of the like pioneers of herpetoculture. He, he moved from Florida where he was, you know, had, had one of the, you know, big import businesses and he moved to Utah and set up this, uh, place called Zooherp. And maybe it was the same name as the company he had in Florida, but he set that up in Salt Lake city. And I found out

about that. And I about lost my mind as a young kid with, you know, very limited resources, no, no reptile specialty shops to speak of. And so, you know, I, as often as I could, I'd have my dad drive me, you know, two hour, hour, hour down to see his place. And, and, you know, I bought several animals from that, you know, from him. And, and so, you know, he, I, I kind of thought, you know, what a, what an amazing example. And I learned a lot from him and he was a great mentor, but, you know, I was a little ways away. I couldn't drive yet. And by the time I got, you know, got my driver's license, he he'd closed down shop and moved on to other things. It just got too complicated in Utah or something. So anyway, I can't, I don't know all

the reasons why, why he ended Zuhurt, but I was very sad to see it go, you know? And so, um, I, I, that opportunity for mentors was basically, if you happen to live by somebody who was big in, into reptiles, you know, some people might've been very fortunate to live next to the barkers or something. And, you know, if they were into reptiles, that would be, you know, an instant mentor. And, and it wasn't really until, um, you know, the Internet came out that I was able to find mentors, you know, across states and across maybe even nations where now I, you know, I have several different people that I could, you know, attribute that I've met that have just really become mentors and friends, yourself included, you know, that I wouldn't have, wouldn't have probably met back before social media was a thing back before we had forums and things like that. I mean,

and some of the people that I still interact with today, like you and, you know, Eric Burke, and some of those guys were found through social media on, you know, the Morelia Pythons forum, Nick Mutton, all these. And I guess I'm kind of a wackadoo because I don't. And it is. I mean, MP forum was social media. I don't consider it social media as we see social media today. Yeah. I mean, things have changed with, you know with the advent of Facebook and things like that. Yeah, the interconnectivity, the multimedia platforms of social media.

It's – to me, it's the second – it's social – if MP was social media, this is social media squared or cubed. Do you know what I mean? Sure, but to my point, I mean, we can use those platforms. We can use Facebook to meet people worlds away that have common interests, be able to connect with those people online and maybe eventually even meet in person, which, you know, I've been able to do with a few of these people and, you know, met them online first and then later on be able to meet them in person. And it's been really a huge benefit, you know, of social media to my reptile career and to be able to interact with these people that have common interests and common passions. And a huge pro in my opinion.

Yeah, I mean, and undoubtedly, you know, social media gives us a connectivity that we didn't have prior or the the increase in connectivity is only is only growing. And that that is you're right. You're right. That is a that is an undeniable, you know, benefit of social media, but, you know, not everybody. So, so, so when you connect more people, when you create a deeper, more saturated network of reptile people, that is more and more for the new unassuming, you know, lamb of, of the reptile industry coming in to have to sift through. And that's a tougher, that's kind of a tougher bill. You know what I mean? And, and in our age, we, we, we, it was a, I don't want to say it was simpler. And we, I know, I knew the carpet people, you know, I knew the movers, the shakers. I knew, you know, who, who, you know, it was boiled down for me a little bit. And I feel like, you know, with, with, with a little bit with, with, with modern social

media, gosh, if I didn't know my head for my ass, I might have a hard time. And I think that's probably, you know that's probably the big issue with modern social media is trying to navigate your way. And I was lucky, man. MP made me, it put me in the right spot at the right time with the right people. And those are people I still associate with to this day because it was so awesome and so special and so amazing. And when I navigate social media these days, I don't find that same thing that I found back then. It's harder for me. I have to discern that. And you know, I'll be honest, I don't really associate that much with other reptile people other than the ones I knew from back in the day. And until we started doing

this podcast and I started meeting those people in a, you know, in, in, in kind of a social media broadcast setting, realizing, ah, these guys are amazing. These guys have this or that to say. And so, you know, how, I guess my point is it's so much harder to filter where I don't know why it was easier for me to filter back in the day. And maybe it was just the, the simple fact that it was all right there. And it was just, it all happened in word and, and you, you saw it over and over in the community was small, but now it's,

it's, it's, it's exponentially bigger and it's so much harder to, to kind of, you know, it's, it's, it's so much more saturated.

It's harder to interface with single individuals. Okay. Boomer. All right. Whoa. I told you my spot was get off my lawn. So yeah. Boomer here. And I am not a boomer, by the way. My mom is a boomer. Okay. Joe Biden is a boomer. Donald Trump is a boomer. I, sir, am not a boomer. I just had to throw that in. I'm surprised I even know that.

No, I mean, you know, we had to do the same thing back then. And that's why you're not friends with, you know, Masterful Poopsie to this day, whoever that was. Wrong. Or are you? You are. He is on my Facebook page. Who is the guy that had Fluffy the snake? I can't remember that guy's name. Dan.

Dan. Oh, I hate myself? I can't remember that guy's name. Dan. Dan. Oh, I hate myself. I can't remember that. He had lawn furniture. That shit was amazing. Like, that was the deepest troll. Like, that was Chris Behoff troll. Like, before Chris Behoff ever.

Yes, dude. Before Behoff ever even knew about the troll like that guy had damn what was his name dude that that snake got so famous like yeah yeah he i mean he had like doll furniture in his cage yeah yeah that snake came from me he i'm a little ashamed are you serious jungle from me yeah oh my god i did not know we had you to thank for all of that. Yeah. So, anyway, I mean. You never divulged that.

Well, do you blame me? In the end, yes, I do. In the end, I would have liked to have loved it. Well, I'm divulging it now, so now you know. All right, all right, all right. But, you know, we had to filter through our friends list, you know, filter through the people that we interacted with in that same way to some extent. I think the big loss that we have today is maybe the brevity of things. Like we're not discussing things in long form format like the forums involved.

You know, we have discussion. I mean, you still get that to some extent there, there are some discussions that go on, but often, well, and they probably did the same back then they divulge into like name calling and stuff, which they still do. So, you know, that we do have to kind of navigate through social media and kind of find our people, find those people we, we align with and have common goals and ideals with. And so that, that hasn't changed. Maybe there's more, um, people out there and more, you know, people to sift through, but you can still find your people, I guess, you know, you can still find those people who are passionate about the things you keep. Now, and again, I definitely think that's a way to connect with people that you might you would never come in contact with. Otherwise, you know, you might hear about them somehow or, you know, and back in back in the day, it was kind of tricky to to locate, you to locate people with that common passion that we had.

You almost thought you were the only one because you didn't know very many hurt people. Different reptile shops, I think, kind of helped me out when I was in my early 20s. There was a reptile specialty shop that opened in the town next to mine. And I heard about that. And I spent a lot of time there and bought several animals from them and sold animals through them. And I was very good friends with the owners. And it was really sad to see that place fold. But I met a lot of keepers through that as well. And, you know,

reptile expos, you could go to expos and meet breeders and meet people with kind of that common passion and, and interest in species. And, and so we can, we can still do that. You know, those options are still available, but at the same time, you know, with things like COVID, we were shut up. We didn't have any, you know, reptile shows. And so the only way we were interacting with people, you know, excited about reptiles was social media or, you know, via phone calls or whatever. So, you know, it's, it's nice to have that option of, of the new, you know, I guess they're not so new anymore, but social media,

and that's definitely a pro in connecting with people. And I mean, it's me, you know, I think. So first of all, shout out to my man, Patrick Malloy, Masterful Poopsy. He's on my Facebook. Okay. Well, I got him confused. He just hit me up not that long ago and we're friends again. So that's awesome. I, you know, it, it, and,

and what a tribute to the community and the characters and the people that we've, you know, have come and gone and still come again. Uh, so, and that's, I mean, isn't that, you know, that's why I, I, I still work within military aviation, uh, cause I was affiliated with the military. And I love the camaraderie that comes from the characters that I have met through the military. And it's the same thing with the reptile community. You just have so many people who are just amazing that, you know, it's so different. I have a great friend who is who's a virologist at utah state and i have uh you know another known friend who's a uh well used to be a guitar player for a heavy metal band called slayer and and you know we we got to hang out at a show and you know everyone

i saw who was with you know i mean i mean you were there man when when when we walked up you know, everyone I saw who was with, you know, I mean, I mean, you were there, man. When, when, when we walked up, you know, everyone was running up to Kerry King saying like, yeah, Slayer, bro. Yeah. Sign my shirt, sign this, sign that. And Kerry's like, he's cool. He's relaxed, you know, and he's signing and he's being a good, he's, but, but when we introduced ourselves and we, we said, Hey, we're from MP, you know know we're chuck and justin he's like oh my god and he's like let me show you this let me show you that and the little kid in him came out man and i for sure you know i don't i don't i don't associate with rock stars because i don't know what that's like but i associated with that and and no matter how big of a rock star carrie king

will ever be i understand that part of it with him. Right. And I will always, I will always understand that. And, and so whether we're talking big social media or we're talking individual interactions, I do think that social media is positive because I, I will never forget that interaction between the three of us. And I know people who get geeked on the same thing that I like through social media are looking for that same thing too. And I, on one hand, I don't know if social media brings that to them at the same poignant way that it came to me and you in that moment. I like reptile shows. I like in-person. I like that interaction. And maybe social media as a

conduit to make that happen is great. But I so believe in the, you know, the natural, you know, the magic of just being in the moment with people that share your interests and things like that. And like I said, I think, you know, social media being the avenue and the conduit to get people to the shows, people to places, people plugged in. That's such a great thing, but nothing beats the natural magic that I've seen between, you know, the people that I call friends and that happened very organically in person. And those are the people that are online that I've never met. I don't talk to them. I don't hang out with them. It's the people that I went to shows with, that I hung out with, that I know that I'm doing podcasts with now. You know what I mean? Those are the people who are relevant in my life. Yeah. But I mean, again, you met them through

social media to some extent. And so that's kind of what we, you know, and I think that's a that's a benefit of today's social media is you you don't have the confusion remember who it was. You nailed it, man. You nailed it. Exactly. So, you know, now you, you know, on Facebook, you basically go by your name, you know, or your business name. And so, you know, it's still maybe a little tricky to figure out who is the business owner if they're going by a business name. But for the most part, you meet people by their name rather than some weird thing they made up you know back uh i have a friend from australia that uh his name meant like smelly fart or something in japanese and it's like okay you know you don't want to go with that yeah nice i still have a hard time i don't know i don't judge i don't judge yeah exactly and so i don't hang around to smell though either. And I remember that being a big push in the Morelia Python's days was like, go by your name.

Don't go by some weird, you know, moniker that nobody's going to know who you are down the road. And I guess maybe I didn't have that, you know, as soon as I got into social media or on the forums or whatever, it was always JG Jew lander, you know, that was my, my tags. And I know Ben was BH moral. I think he went by Dendro Aspis for a long time. And, and so, you know, you're right. You're right. You're right. I think he changed, uh, you know, based on like, people don't know who you are when you're going by some, you know, different name than your own. So I think that's a benefit of today's social media

and people coming into the hobby, at least know your real name and can kind of find you at a reptile show or find you through, you know, whatever other channel or look up your website or whatever. So, and, and, you know, we can kind of, you almost feel more connected with somebody like, you know, somebody, I don't know. I've had this a few times where I'll watch somebody's YouTube videos and then I meet them in person. And I feel like I already know them, you know, because they're sharing things or a podcast or something, you meet them and you're like, I know all these things about you because I've listened to you, you know, talk for hours or I've watched your videos. And so, you know, you almost have a familiarity that's, it may not be there. So, you know, that, that's something that is good in a way, you know, you can, you can learn about somebody through, through these, these, these mechanisms, but at the same

time, you know, you, you've got to be careful that you don't run up to them and hug them because you think, you know, better than you do, you you know but i think that's definitely a benefit you can learn about people pretty rapidly through like run up and be like justin said i should fight you yeah exactly you gotta be careful with uh you know catch people off guard yeah and i mean we we still do that to some extent where we have these interactions with people and then you meet them in person and you're like oh this is not is not what I was picturing. I remember when I met Nick Mutton for the first time, I'm like, I did not expect him to look like that. It was kind of a weird thing. You know, you have this idea of what somebody is going to look like based on their

online persona. And then you meet them and you're like, Oh, that, that, I mean, not like it was a bad thing or anything, but it was like, Whoa, it just didn't line up yeah yeah yeah yeah exactly and that's and you know i mean that is what it is like and but and and that's kind of what i and you know i mean i feel like we we live in this very like diffused multimedia you know environment and and and, and to your point, I think that there are certain forms of media like YouTube that give you such better insight into, you know, who somebody is. And, and, and it's kind of weird too, because you go to Facebook and, and, you know, you, you have, I have, I have really good friends who put out political stuff that's kind of like, man, I don't agree with that. But I'm really, really, really good friends with that person.

And when we're talking, that doesn't line up with with the person that I know. So it's it's weird and it's okay. I let that go because it's, you know, ultimately our friendship and, and what the things we have in common and the things that I care about that person for are bigger than any kind of like, I didn't see that coming or whatever. Like sometimes, man, you got to let that shit go. And there's people who are like, oh, that person said this. They're gone off my social. Look, that's how people live in echo chambers. And this is not about an echo chamber, that they will take ideas that are not their own, that they will hear other points. They will take other positions and they will say, oh, I see that for what it is. Here's why I don't agree with that. But I understand where that person's coming from, because I think that's another detractor of social media is people just insulate themselves with people who look, sound, or talk exactly like they do. And that is so not the point. That is the exact opposite fringe benefit of social media right and i just i think that it's easy to do they've you know you just you have a fucking button where you're like block done you know and and it's hard to hear and and dude i get it because i've had people who've graded on my last nerve about stuff that i'm probably no longer friends with that probably in the grand scheme of things,

I just need to move past and say, Hey, I don't agree with that. Here's why I don't agree with that. You know, don't, don't throw that shit on my page like that anymore or whatever, you know what I mean? But I didn't, I was like, I'm over it. I'm done. And now, now I've shortened my, you know, my sphere of influence, my, you know, where I, where I could benefit. And I think that's definitely a, a, a, a potential positive and negative of, of social media, you know, and I think it's too easy. And I especially think in our culture of division today, it's really, really easy for people to just hit that block or that pause button and you're out. You know what I mean? And yeah. And again, I mean, you know, but we have so many more benefits or potential benefits than we did 20, 30 years ago. Absolutely. you nuts with all their political posts or something and, or, or just say, Hey, you know, I, I, you know, this might be blasphemy, but you know, I, I, uh, I met Carrie as a reptile

keeper first. And, and after, you know, we kind of, he actually contacted Ben and bought some snakes from us and I hadn't really, you know, I've heard, I'd heard of Slayer, but I, I'd never listened to their music. And so after he said, Oh yeah, Carrie King called and, you know, he's from Slayer. And I'm like, Oh, I, and so I checked out their music and frankly, it's not, not my thing, you know? So, and I even went, I went, uh, Kerry was in town playing in Utah. And so I said, Hey, you know, come,

come hang out or say hello to you or something. And he got me into the show for free. And so I went and listened to the, to Slayer and, and I, yeah, it's just not my cup of tea. I wasn't that excited about it, but I, but I was excited to go chat with Carrie about snakes after the show, you know? And so I saw a few reptile friends there and they're like, Oh, I didn't know you like Slayer. I'm like, Oh, well he keeps carpet pythons. So that's why I'm here. You know, I want to go chat carpet pythons with him. Cause it's, it was a rare opportunity to maybe chat with him. He's so busy at the shows, but you know, and the guy is, is just a, he's so awesome. Just a nice guy. You know, we, my, uh, Heidi, my wife came to one of

the NARBC shows in Anaheim and she was walking and looking for me and she had our young, you know, one of our kids with her and, and who was a toddler. And so she was like, she didn't know where to go. And Carrie saw her and he's like, Oh, are you, are you Justin's wife? And she's like, yeah. And he's like, here, let me take you to his table. And he walked her over to my table, you know, just to class that guy all the way. So, um, you know, I, I, I appreciate him from, from a lot more aspects than just Slayer, you know, and I see a lot of, you know, fanboys going over, Hey Slayer, you're Slayer, that kind of thing. I like him cause he's a cool guy and he likes carpet pythons, you know, not necessarily because he's in a fan. And it's, and it's interesting. I'm a metal head. I love metal, you know, I, I like,

you know, um, and. Oh yeah. You're a big Slayer fan, right? I do. Yeah. I definitely am a huge Slayer fan and,, you know, but I don't, I, man, how do I say this? Like, I don't get off on the fanboy. Yeah, the fame of. Yeah. I mean, I appreciate Kerry as a metal guitarist. I love, you know, but again, I go back to that moment where I found that commonality between him and I of geeking out like little kids when he was pulling, you know, when he was pulling deli cups. Check this shit out. Like, oh, my God, look at this fucking thing. You know, and that was something that I know you. I know I and I know he all had in common. And anybody who's listening to this right now, who's geeked out about carpets is like, I know exactly what you're fucking talking about.

Right. That's what I get. And that's the and I don't I don't, you know, going back to the topic and we keep going back to this, but I don't get that off of social media. Now, does it allow me an avenue to more people who I can find who are like that? Yes. But where does that magic happen? That magic happens in the moment for me, you you know or maybe on this podcast a little but i would say i would i wouldn't have necessarily had that opportunity to get to know him outside of slayer you know other than through social media through the forums through him contacting us because he saw what carpet pythons we produced you know so i think you know that that opportunity i will i will definitely know that that opportunity i will i

will definitely concede that point i will definitely concede that point so that you know another another benefit now um i i really like the interconnectivity of you know all the scientific articles with you know with being able to share that easily on social media i think we can yeah man but hold up hold on i don't see that i don't i mean i'm saying you know i don't i really don't i don't see and and you know hey listen i am i am the get off my lawn throw my fucking sandal at the kid uh guy you know i get that i get that but i don't see a, you know, highly academic literature being circulated on social media. I'm not saying it doesn't happen. But as somebody who is more cursory to social media, I don't see that happen.

So if I am more to the surface, then, you know. I don't see that necessarily with, with like my, my job, you know, most of my social media is reptile stuff. So I don't really see, you know, virus papers through my social media and I probably could shape it to that, but you know, I find social media is more of an escape rather than, you know I, I, I don't want to be perusing social media and think about work after hours, basically. So most of my social media stuff is reptile related. So when I'm perusing, I've got friends in there that are academics or that link to academic articles involving reptiles.

And I mean, that's how I heard about that latest paper on children's pythons and the Antaresia genus and that whole mess. But I heard about that latest paper on, you know, children's pythons and, you know, the Antaresia genus and, and that, that whole mess. But, you know, I heard about that through social media. I saw a link to it on Facebook. I've seen a lot of different papers on Facebook. Maybe you just need some different friends that post, you know, scientific articles, but I've got several of those that, you know, so that keep me up, up to date on the science and science and just the fact that, you know, you read a scientific article and it has a little button that you can press to link to that article on social media says a lot, you know, that science understands that, you know, there's, we've got to communicate through the available options through social media. And so you can get access and view, I mean, you can follow journals on social media. So, you know, there's really just that, that opportunity to increase your

knowledge and get word on the latest interesting information that's published through, through social media. So you have that outlet for learning more about what you're, what you are fascinated by. I think there's another benefit of social media. Hey, I think there is that benefit. I think that you and your cohorts and, and like-minded individuals who are deep in that social media game will post that. But I don't think that the person who just bought their first reptile and is trying to figure out what the fuck they're doing is linking to your Shine papers on, you know. Okay. So I guess I'm not saying that i i'm saying the benefit is there

somebody's new into reptiles they're listening technology certainly oh i didn't think about that i'm gonna go over to you know like a certain journal on on facebook and maybe i'll get linked to different articles or or maybe i'll and i with academics and maybe I'll get linked to their articles. And I think that's a, that's a, so it's a potential benefit for a new people. Yeah. A hundred percent. I agree. I agree with, I agree with that. I agree with that. And whether or not they're to the point where, where the, you know, maybe they're not to the point of reading a scientific article and getting much out of it. And, you know, frankly, not, you know, most people aren't. And I'm not in a lot of ways.

You know, I'll read some of these articles. I'm like, well, I definitely missed the point of that. You know, I read the abstract and got something out of that. But I'm not reading that whole article because it's just, you know, this, you know, something that's beyond my real comprehension. It's just deep in the weeds of the science. You have an academic background, and it's hard for you to read past the abstract in some papers. So it would be unreasonable.

By the same token, anybody that's posting a link to that or the journals themselves understand that they need to make their articles kind of appeal to a wider audience. So they're going to, they're going to sum it up or they're going to kind of report the major findings. And most like when I'm publishing an article, that's one of the questions that the journal will ask and say, what are the three, you know, key findings of this article or what are the three takeaway points you want the layperson to get? And they're just asking that so that you include that in the abstract. So that you are getting the big points to the reader, whether they can digest the science in depth or not.

And I think, again, we're talking about advantage versus consumption when we're looking at new people to social media. The advantage is always there. Will they be able to consume it? Probably not right away. Will they even know where to go find it? Probably not right. Even if they found it to go find it not probably not right even if they found it would they be ready to consume it probably not right away but it's not necessarily

step one but it might be step 15 you know and and that's that's a definite pro of social media that's that's the reason i bring it up so, you know, I guess how long is somebody considered a newbie? Do you have to breed a certain number of species or be in the hobby for a certain number of years? Of course not. Maybe somebody who gets into the hobby is scientifically minded and gets right into the weeds of journal articles. And you get people who read or watch YouTube videos for a month and they're fucking experts. You know what I mean? Sure.

They haven't done a single fucking thing, but they watched all the videos. So that's all they need to know, right? And that doesn't – For the most part, I mean, they know how to keep their animal maybe healthy and alive. Maybe they get to learn how to breed it. But I think anybody who actually does it, you know, has the animals and they're doing it. You know, if I went by my first success, I was an awesome bearded dragon breeder. If I went by the next five or ten years, I really sucked it up.

Like I had instant success on some of my projects. And then later on, I learned things the hard way, like, oh, you don't just buy a random animal from a pet shop because it might have mites or internal parasites. You know, I learned that the hard way. Um, I, I, as a lot of people do social media, tell me, Hey, be careful, check out your animal for so, you know, for mites or for, you know, if you're going to buy that from the pet store or, oh, did you get that tested? You know, there's, there's those kinds of questions for people now who are showing off their new animal on social media and they say, oh, that one looks a little off. Have you had a vet check? Does it have mites? Why is it sitting in a water bowl? You know, they can ask those pertinent questions. And if, and if a new keeper

is, is in tune and sees the benefit of that, they can say, Oh, that's a good question. I'll have that checked out or I'll look into that or, you know, and then they read up on it and maybe save themselves some, uh, uh, heartache and hassle in the long run. So I'm just saying that benefit is there. That might be in the fantasy world. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. That's. I think that's out there. I don't think that's when new people are coming in or about, you know, snake mites or about things they need to be careful about, that's certainly out there. So I'm not going to argue that with you. There's no taking away experience either. You know, when I was a kid, I thought the coolest thing to do was to get a giant python and put it around your neck and walk through your neighborhood and get everybody to gasp and think you're neat.

You know, that was kind of like the, the 12 year old, 10 year old, whatever 12 year old Justin's attitude of keeping reptiles was okay. This is a thing. And you know, so we need to be a little more patient, especially as the old, you know, crotchety guys getting yelling at kids on their lawn. We need to get off my lawn. We, we went through that too. We, we experienced that too. And we made those dumb mistakes, frankly, dumb mistakes as well. And so, you know, we need to help guide them say, Hey, you know, maybe it's not the best idea to go out in public with your giant Python,

or maybe it's not the best idea to get a giant Python in the first place. You know, how are you, how are you planning on keeping that down the road? Or, you know, there's, there's a lot of ways we can effectively and, and, uh, guide the next generation. So even if you're not, you know, if, if you're not a newbie and you've done this for a while, you know, there's opportunities, endless opportunities to help. And sometimes I think that burns people out, but, know, it's kind of a little bit, our, our responsibility and our, our, you know, privilege to help new people come into the hobby and maybe avoid some of

the mistakes we did. Although maybe, and I'll just be, I'll be honest and well, I'll be honest and well i i'll be honest and say that that that i miss i'm i i you know i i miss the old and and and wish that the new could learn those lessons because you know mp was i mean it was all right there man it was it was a whole you know karosky put together a uh you, a database of, of, of, you know, of, of all things. Um, you know, I mean, the JAG issue came to light there. There was so much that, that, that is everything that is carpet pythons happened right there. And it never went anywhere until it went away until Facebook came until the new age of you know social media squared or social media cubed came and and now i don't even i i mean i've tried to go but i don't even go back anymore and it's just it's so it's so disappointing and it's so because that was such a treasure trove of – it was – I guess I kind of feel like, you know, that the advent of – I mean, the advent of digital history is that it's carried so much longer than written history right but here we see it's not it's not you know and and and that's kind

of my biggest beef with social media is that as it gets better it seems to get lost more you know good luck going back and finding something um in on facebook that you saw two years ago you know what i mean five Five days ago. Yeah, it's really difficult. Right, exactly. Things get buried. No, that's the biggest con in my mind is like you say, and there's no permanent record.

But then again, you can't find the Morelia Python threads because they're gone too. They got lost as well. So it's not like unless you print it out on your screen or something. But when Karosky was paying the bills and he was taking care of business, it was all intact. That was a beautiful, I mean, it was a, you know, that was an arc of carpet Python information that we don't have anymore. We do not have that. One big loss of the current social media, you know, disappearing information.

And it is amazing. Look on somebody's site, you know, somebody's personal page and see things they've posted and, you know, information or pictures or whatever. But a lot of times those discussions are hard to dig up. You can't remember what post that was on. And so, you know, I've, I've kind of resorted to screenshotting some of those things. If there's an interesting topic or something I want to dig into a little more or think about a little more, I'll, I'll just screenshot it and, you know, go back to it and have that record of, you know, when it was posted and by who. So, you know, there's

ways around it, but yeah, definitely. That's a, that's a con of today's social media. I'll give you that. I don't know if we exhausted. I, I, I definitely think that, you know, anything that, that pulls us together and links us together is probably a good thing. But, but, you know, I mean, I, I, I come from the old school. I I'll throw you off my lawn. I remember the old days and, and you do too. And, and, and there was definitely a different benefit from that, that I don't, I don't see today, you know, and that's okay. Some of us are young at heart and we can see the benefit of today. You know what, man? My kids were put here to kill me off and get rid of me. And I have my place in time and history and we all got to move on, man.

And, you know, I like to remember my old days, like Al Bundy at Polk High. And, and, you know I will always remember that. And I hope everybody who was there with me was, you know, who was on my team will remember that, but Hey, life moves on. You know what I mean? And I, I, you know I think it is, I think it is a good thing for everybody. I just wish we had a way to filter out the crap. You know, the more signal you get in the line, the harder it is to filter. So I think that's a piece of social media. I think you missed out on some big cons on this. And now that the discussion is basically over, I'll throw out a couple of cons as well.

Is the formulas that they have in social media to guide you to certain things. So they're basically selling you, right? So you get ads and you get, you only see certain posts that they think you're going to like. So what's the algorithms, right? The algorithms really kind of mess up a lot of things. And so we miss out on a lot of things that could be potentially good

and kind of keep us a little bit in an echo chamber because we're only seeing those things that we might agree with or enjoy. And so I think algorithms are a definite con and and they they result in clickbait and we've discussed that you know ad nauseum in one of our previous podcasts so we won't really touch on that here but you know it really kind of mucks things up when you've got all this just algorithm garbage either making you post your stuff a certain way to get clicks or all this clickbaity garbage. It's a little bit muddy to try to get through some of that stuff.

And it also leads people to a limited amount. It's really hard to find some really good YouTube videos without knowing what you're looking for. If you just search reptiles on YouTube, it's going to show you the stuff it wants you to see, not necessarily stuff that you might benefit the most from. It might be the people who have the most clickbaity titles or that have been around the longest or whatever. So, you know, that's, that's the way it is. And we kind of have to adapt to that, but that's something to keep in mind, you know, as you're navigating current social media or current, you know,

YouTube learning about reptiles is the stuff that comes up first on the, on the, you know, Google search or the YouTube search is not necessarily the best information. So that's a, that's a definite negative side of this, but. Is that, Is that the bottom of the barrel that I failed to get you with? Well, I mean, you just missed that opportunity. No, no, no. I agree. No, you're right. You're right.

You're right. And when you're right, you're right. And you, you're right. So I appreciate that. I do. I do. I mean, obviously, there's a lot of benefits, but there's also a lot of pitfalls, you know, and I think we've hit on hit on some of those important ones. And, you know,

if you're, if you're coming into the hobby, you know, be, be aware of some of those things, be, uh, be proactive in avoiding some of the pitfalls and learn, you know, be able to connect with people who are in this for the right reasons and who are doing good things in herpetoculture. And, you know, be able to connect with people who are in this for the right reasons and who are doing good things in herpetoculture. And, you know, you can have a lot of benefits from the current state of social media. And it will lead you to, you know, I think our peripheral or these kind of skin deep associations that we have online can be much more meaningful if you're going to, you know,

meet that person at a reptile show or at a conference or something like that, or, or just, you know, meet up with them to go herping. I met a couple of really great herpers down in Southern Utah that I, you know, I only knew from online. And then I went down and herped with them and, you know, they're the real deal. They're great guys, you know, Aspen Mahan and Chris Jensen. And, you know, I just had a blast herping with them and I've done a couple more trips since then. So, you know, there's awesome people you can meet, you know, have that peripheral online. But once you meet him in person, it deepens that much more.

So I'd encourage you, you know, even though you have 5,000 Facebook friends, you know, make some real close associations. You got 5,000 Facebook friends? Oh, I have like, I don't know, 70,000. I don't know. I don't count. I got like five, bro. I got like five. Nobody mentions me.

Listen, Reptile Fight Club is your thing no they're like who you've kind of taken yourself out the out of the equation you really are living that old that's okay i don't need oh yeah no i'm saying there's lots of ways to to you know live your life and yeah i'm not faulting you for that because definitely it's sometimes it's a little tedious to to get through some of the some of the stuff you see online but you know i was turned i was turned off real a long time ago about some of the things that happen in the reptile industry and i'm very happy where i am and you know it does suck sometimes because i don't know what the hell you're talking about or

i'm not in the know with with a lot of the social media stuff and it's like well yeah i kind of wish i know i you know yeah yeah i mean well bad oops to each his own right yeah man you know you're still young you can still get on there and make lots of facebook friends and then when we we totally sound like boomers probably talking about facebook in the first place nobody no no younger generation go they're all on tiktok you you still use nobody uses facebook anymore only the older people old people use facebook and it's you know one of those comfortable media that you're used to. Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, I, I use Instagram just for me, just to look at pictures of wild reptiles.

And I think I've mentioned that before. So, you know, and that's, that's our privilege is to use social media in ways that we want to, you know, you have a limited number of Facebook friends and they're probably your real friends in real life and not just, you know, in Facebook land. So, you know, I got a few, I don't know, but you know, yeah, for the most part. Yeah, you're right. All right. Well, I got nothing. Good discussion, man. Yeah. Thanks. And hopefully, uh, our listener got something out of it and they can take that to the bank I don't know word up everybody

new listeners out there that can benefit from this discussion but hopefully it was worth your time thanks for listening to Fight Club as always check out Morelia Python's radio network and all the podcasts they have available there's some good stuff out there

what were some of the more recent things i think uh there's i i listened to one they interviewed nick mutton that was fun to hear they did nick mutton they had a uh they had an aspedites uh blackheaded python that was good i, natural history. I just got done listening to that. I, I liked that. Uh, I believe there was one more out, maybe, uh, um, an Australian her podcast one. Oh, they're there. I think they're talking. I haven't had a chance to listen to it yet. I just saw it come out. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Eric's on a monitor lizard kick. So there's a lot of. That's good. That's not a bad kick. Yeah. I love monitors.

Kick it out, dude. I wish I had more time to spend. Oh my God. Yeah. You're right. A lot of work, but they're a lot of fun too. Heck yeah. Um, there's a couple there, there, the Australian, uh, hurt podcast had, uh, an episode coming up that I thought, uh, with, uh, Ross McGibbon talking about, uh, photo photography, and man, he is a phenomenal photographer, Ross McGibbon. I want to try to, I need to buy some of his prints so I can hang them up in my reptile room, but he's got some really cool pictures. If you haven't seen his stuff, check out Ross McGibbon's, uh, her, uh, photography. So that's on the Australian herpetoculture podcast. They're talking to, to him. So yeah, a lot of good stuff. Check it out. And not to mention, you know, the, the, the herpetoculture podcast and some of the other

podcasts out there that have some really cool, uh, topics, herpetoculture network. They have, they have a lot of good stuff on their, uh, stuff as well, their podcasts as well. So check them all out, uh, get your, get your information. And, uh, I guess we'll, you'll hear from us in another week. Thanks for listening. God damn right. You will. We'll catch you later. Later. Thank you. Outro Music