Reptile Fight Club - Reptile Fight Club Debates Breeding Females in Subsequent Years

Episode Date: June 3, 2022

In this episode, Justin and Chuck tackle the topic of breeding females in subsequent years.Who will win? You decide. Reptile Fight Club!Follow Justin Julander @Australian Addiction Reptiles-http://www.australianaddiction.comFollow Chuck Poland  on IG @ChuckNorriswinsFollow MPR Network on:FB: https://www.facebook.com/MoreliaPythonRadioIG: https://www.instagram.com/mpr_network/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtrEaKcyN8KvC3pqaiYc0RQMore ways to support the shows.Swag store: https://teespring.com/stores/mprnetworkPatreon: https://www.patreon.com/moreliapythonradio

Welcome to the episode of Reptile Fight Club. Do it! And I am your over-caffeinated co-host, Chuck Polin. How you doing, everybody? Hey, hey, hey, hey. Squirrel. Squirrel. Squirrel.

Oh, yeah. No, we got a flock of squirrels. It's crazy. It's wild. They're all jacked up on Mountain Dew. All right. Over-caffeinated and ready to rock. Yeah, too much covfefe.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It is cold here. It was up in the 80s last week, and then it dipped. Oh, man, I got a new incubator, and it kicks on. I hope that's not too overwhelmingly loud. But anyway, yeah, it dipped down, and the highs are 40, so it's rough. 40?

Yeah. My goodness. We're down below freezing at night, so it's rough 40 yeah my goodness we're down below freezing at night so that's kind of a little grub the high of 40 oh my gosh yeah that just doesn't sound very global warming right now not so much yeah that's that's global that proves it it's not real oh my gosh yeah yeah oh i wish that were true i wish that were true it's true yeah no it's it's a little it's a little i i feel like it's gonna rain here i'm my coastals are out and out out just uh that they're going bonkers dude they're cruising all around just like i they think it's a party i don't know low pressure system parties yeah yeah it's always good. I don't know. Low pressure system parties. Yeah. It's always good. Yep.

Yep. So they're, they're, they're doing their thing. I, yeah, not bad. That's cool. Yeah.

Yeah. We got snowed on, uh, last week, uh, went to Yellowstone, me and Heidi and a couple of my cousins and went to look for wildlife and just see some of the park and stuff. But yeah,

it snowed on us uh thursday night and friday morning it was pretty snowy as well and nice that was crazy but it was kind of cool because uh the snow all melted off by like noon so it we we got to experience like every season it was pretty cool i didn't see a YouTube video of you getting your pants torn off by a bison. So that's good. Oh, I grabbed everybody's phones that was filming it. And nice.

That is super smart. Yeah. Yeah. So that's, you know, grizzly bear wrestling. Oh, we got pretty close.

There was a grizzly bear. That was really close. We saw two fairly you know like within probably within the safe zone like we probably should have been further from them but i feel like i feel like in our previous episodes that we were messing with mac and wookie too much and i might like if if if there was a story about how the good doctor is mauled by a grizzly, I would have felt responsible because messing with Mackinwookie emboldened you into getting too close to the grizzly and you were mauled in a fit of confidence. Yeah, that's true. So I do respect the Mackinwookie.

I do respect the large predators. That's one kind of thing I was thinking about. Like, you know, people in Australia don't have to worry about large mammalian predators when they're out, you know, herping and stuff. No, they got to worry about like, yeah, large saltwater crocodiles. That's true. I mean, you have the aquatic aquatic predators yeah take them out but yeah as long as they're sticking to land they're probably pretty safe unless they get bit by something yeah like a gigantic spider or yeah maybe not die but that would be horrible

yeah there's some pretty intimidating spiders yeah i mean they don't really do anything but they just look big yeah impressive die of a heart attack yep and a lot of the web weavers like for some reason have their webs like right at face level for a six foot man yeah so yeah i was almost walking in i've never hit one like face on, you know, full spider web with spider in the middle. So I guess that's good. But that wouldn't be enjoyable necessarily. No. I guess it probably wouldn't kill you or anything, but you might.

It wouldn't feel so great, but yeah. Yeah. No. Not at all. But it was really cool. We saw like six grizzlies and eight black bears and a bunch of, you know, a few wolves, I think maybe five or six wolves. Yeah, you got your fill. Yeah.

That's cool. Predator Central, man. We saw a ton of stuff. It was really cool because the only bear I'd seen, I hadn't seen any wolves, but the only bear I'd seen was that one in Texas, West Texas, a couple of years ago with the, with the guys out herping West Texas. So, um, it was kind of cool to add to that count and, you know, uh, blow it out of the water. So, and seeing a grizzly, that was the first time I'd seen a grizzly bear in the wild and, and they are impressive animals. They're really cool. Yeah. So we got pretty close to one. Um, and yeah, we were kind of on the road by a line of cars. I guess my plan was just jump on top of a car or something, you know, get away from it if it started coming at us or something. But it was kind of funny because there were a couple of rangers and they're like, all right, remember to keep your distance if it starts coming this way.

And then like, OK, we're out. It was like quitting time or something. So they went out of there and took off. Both of them. like okay we're out it was like quitting time or something so they went out of there yeah leave the tourists uh to their own devices around bears and you know bears got to eat man smartest things in in yellowstone but yeah they it was cool it just kind of hung out in this field and just sat and and grazed like it was eating grass and digging in the dirt and getting grubs and worms and stuff like that so it was pretty cool to watch i got some video and some some decent photos so yeah good stuff nice yep made me itch to go out herping because there weren't any herps active out there although we did hear some uh frogs out in the fields Nice. I scanned the ponds with my binoculars and couldn't see any.

Old eagle eye, can I find the frog? I've never been a great frogger. Like, you know, I don't go getting the. You got to have the flashlight on the chin. That's the secret. You got to roll it. If you don't roll it. Who said that again?

Roll it. Who taught that skill to you? That was Rob's buddy. Tom? Tom. It was Tom. That was Tom. That was like one of the first things I think Tom did. Oh, that's right.

He did do that. He's the man when it comes to amphibians in the wild. That's what I heard. That's why I've always stuck with me. Flashlight chip. Roll it. Roll it. Roll it.

Look for the eye shine. It was daylight, so that wouldn't have helped me much. But, yeah, it was a good thought. Technique. It's about the technique. Yeah. My cousin made some sweet fajitas one night, So that was good. Yeah. The night that it wasn't snowing or raining on us. So we couldn't cook something.

Sweet fajitas. That's a bold statement for a man that knows a man that lives in Southern California. Oh, that's true. You've never made fajitas for me though. So. That's fair. That's fair. I never have. It's hard to compare something you've never had. I took you to a restaurant where they made fajitas yeah yeah yeah that's true i didn't get them but yeah i saw somebody eating some yeah but you know still again a little hard to compare no i'm just saying like i you know like that oh that taco shop we hit on the way up to yeah that that reminds me i think i'm coming down uh on the way

to arizona i'm gonna come down hit your area so we got to go herp together hell yeah that sound like a plan yes it does okay i want to see some more kyanactus so i've been working i've been working like an idiot at work so i'm down to get away and you're ready for yes yes even if it's just for an evening i guess you could stick around and hurt for a couple more nights. I mean, a night with a doctor is worth a lifetime of memories. Okay. Yeah. No, I think that'd be fun. That'd be really cool. So, I mean, it adds like six hours to the drive, but Hey, dude, it's me. Yeah. It's worth it. That's what I'm saying.

Yeah, it's the desert. It's all worth it. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So that sounds like something we should do. Okay, done. That's, yeah, coming up pretty quick here, another couple weeks. Yeah.

I guess when this comes, who knows when this comes out. When's that the first one? Yeah, yeah. Well, wait, do we have one in the pipe? No, I think Ron's came out. Yeah, it's out. Yeah, that's – I feel bad. We kind of delayed him.

I know, man. I know. Really killer. That darn anniversary just came up and we had to do our little quiz show thing. Yeah. Got some nice comments about it. I think people enjoyed it. It was good.

I mean, I think – I got to be honest with you and the rest of the NPR world. When Justin said, I think we should do a quiz show, I said, I think that's a horrible idea. But I am man enough to admit when I am wrong. And sir, I was wrong. My hat's off to you. It was amazing. I had a really good time. And that was a lot of fun. Yeah, it was. It was nice to get the involvement was amazing. I had a really good time. That was a lot of fun. Yeah, it was. It was really cool. It was nice to get the involvement, too.

Yeah. I mean, we had a full 10 folks competing on the quiz. We had more than 10 folks. We only had room for 10 folks. That's right. But, yeah, I mean, it was – You're always worried that not enough people are going to show up to fill the 10 slots. Yeah.

So I was just happy to see those 10 slots fill. And congrats again to Andy Middleton for winning that. Yeah, Andy, dude. The Mac and Wookiee's in the mail. I got to make it this weekend. That's the plan. It's a custom job, man. I found out its size though, so we're going to get that done soon, get it shipped out. Hopefully you'll have it by the time this comes out, but we'll see. Yeah. Yeah. I I'll see what happens. Yeah. And I mean, there's, and then I, we saw the, the intellectual Mac and Wookiee this week. I saw

that. I was really, I was really impressed. How did, how did the intellectual Mac and Wookiee get the early release of the, the, the that's what i want to know i'm sure what do i gotta do what do i gotta do to get in on that mac and wookiee action of the early release of the the carpet python book well just like the uh fabled mac and wookiee they're very difficult to find apparently apparently so i found the blue line i wasn't going to mention it because i'm still like it's never going to come i don't know oh it'll be here it'll be yeah i think there's delays with everything everything's delayed and all the it's just you know it's i'm sick of waiting but so i'm not thinking about it i'm just waiting all right so i'm not waiting i'm no you are waiting

you're definitely waiting we're all waiting. We're all waiting. Yeah. Yeah. But I'm excited for it. And, you know, thinking about a quiz show, it might be fun to have another one to give away a book or something. I'm down for that. Looking for an excuse to have another quiz show.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So maybe we'll have to have a carpet spectacular type, you know, carpet centric quiz show, ask them stuff about stuff in the book or, yeah, I don't know. Spectacular type, you know, carpet centric quiz show. Ask them stuff about stuff in the book or.

Yeah. I don't know. That'd be cool. So, yeah, maybe, maybe we can be talked into that one. But I kind of liked having the quiz show. It was pretty fun. Yeah, it was fun. It was good. And back to, you know, Ron St. Pierre.

What? I mean, my man man what a dude right like just he's the best yeah yeah he's the best i i um it's good to hear that come out yeah he embodies all of that i love in in old herp not old but you know old school herp guys sorry ron you're not old you're a young man uh and it's just he's got you know great stories just great experience like he's just you know one of those guys you could just talk to forever and it's just fun and um yeah so cool so we got to plan that trip yeah oh dude i know i'm going i've i was like we're done yeah i'm i'm hurting with ron if you're not coming you're you're assed out dude like i'm going so yeah yeah I'm going. So I'm super excited for that. Yeah. It'd be a lot of fun. Yeah. Fight club, uh,

fight club hits to Florida. So yeah. Yeah. I, I like that idea. I think that'd be good. I, I haven't, I've, I've done a little bit in Florida, but it was just kind of with coworkers or with my wife and, you know, not really intense herping. I didn't know where to go. I just kind of went to the Everglades or near the Everglades and cruise some roads that look decent. We did see, you know, a bunch of alligators and, and a few snakes, uh, some, a rat snake and, you know, some other, uh, it's been a little while since I was there, 2010 or 2009 something like that but yeah cool to see

gators in the natural environment and we saw a couple DOR Burmese pythons so you know that was about all we saw one night when I went out with my co-workers. Was it DOR Burmese pythons? Yeah. Were they

like a big old baby? DOR gator in the road. That was kind of crazy. I don't know if I'd want to run over. I mean, not that I wouldn't want to run over. I'm just saying like, you know, like, man, that could be horrible. Yeah. That would be an accident.

That might be an accident you don't walk away from. Yeah. It's kind of sad to see him in that state. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I was listening to snakes and stogies and Phil was talking about, um, the gator hunt and stuff like that is, is, uh, they've widened the season. I guess that's a good sign that they're doing well and, you know, kind of made their recovery. And, um, but they, they extended that into the daytime so you can hunt

gators in the day rather than just at night, but I don't know, maybe we have to have a fight club on that one of these days hunting reptiles for, or, or the skin trade or something like that. Yeah. That'd be good. That'd be good. I mean, I think, you know, I, I, that's hard, man. I think people's heartstrings get in the way of that sometimes and they don't really realize what they're saying when you know i mean hunting deer is a primary means of managing their population because they're so out of whack so you know yeah but anyway we'll save that for another another fight club yeah there you go so and it's and unfortunately uh also in florida that uh legislation passed yeah gosh what a bummer yeah what the fuck that uh

yeah that's i guess all the reason to to continue and or or if you haven't uh to support uh our helpers there yeah i'm blanking on the name gosh dang it uh it's been a long week um uh yeah my brain is is broken help me out us arc us arc thank Arc? U.S. Arc. Thank you. I was like, does he – he can't not remember U.S. Arc. No, he really doesn't. He has no – he's – oh, my God. Oh, my God. It's happening. All right.

I'm just going to hang back here a second and let it happen. All right. Here we go. U.S. Arc. Yes, that's right. Yeah, absolutely, man. We need to – I mean, I just – it's not good. Yeah, that Florida –

It's just not good, man. It's not good, you know. I mean – I'll be curious to see how that affects the pet trade and the keeping and things in Florida. It's too bad. I think Ron laid it out really well about how – where a lot of that came from. And just the fact that it's not a short not a, it's not a short term, you know, it's not something that just happened. It's, it's happened a while back.

And it's, you know, it's, it's, you know, the, the, the, the cats out of the bag, the trains left the station, the, you know, the, the yeah. The bystander has gone under the bus. Yeah. And fighting it on the other side is always more difficult so sure this will but i mean it's you know it's political opportunism it's it's uh it's it's government you know it's government finances meets opportunism um you know it just sucks man it's you know wrapped up and we got wrapped up in some bullshit. Yep.

So I guess, uh, keep, keep the fight up. There's also always, there's always some kind of proposed legislation that we can, you know, have an impact on and, and let your voice be heard and make sure that you don't just sit on your hands. You do something about these things. So, yeah, yep. We need to, Hey, sure. and make sure that you don't just sit on your hands. You do something about these things. Yep. Yep. Hey, Trevor.

What's your dog got to say about that? She's just pissed off at Florida. I'm sure she remembers USARC. Yeah. She's just mad at the derpy hurt politicians in Florida. All righty. Well. Hey, man, take your jacket off. Stay stay a while i feel like you're like you're

getting ready to run is it cold in your house are you are you in the warm down here yeah i got you down jacket on just tell the southern california guy to shut the hell up then i could slip inside my incubator that way there you go a little bit yeah i have a heater down here but i i turned it off because i thought it's too warm it's you know i'm not gonna need this anymore and then that's when you need it yeah yeah yeah but the the herp room was getting hot i was almost ready to turn on the air conditioner and then it we get down like 10 of the 30s speaking of herb rooms how's how's snakes how's how's good i've uh had my first hatchlings got some womas um you know out of the egg just two the majority of that clutch kind of crashed uh about a week into incubation but the two eggs that made it um look great they look really nice they nice. It's a pair.

Male and female. I'm happy about that. Just got to get those guys feeding. Did Lucas already contact you about them? No. Not yet. I haven't really. I guess I put up a picture of them. I need to get them feeding. All that good stuff.

The blackheads should be next. I looked in there. The eggs are kind of sinking in a little. It's looking like we're moving in the right direction. Hopefully, we see some heads coming out of eggs, and that would be fantastic. Man, I don't want to think about if they don't. No. Yeah.

We won't because they will. Yeah. They're, they're coming out positive thoughts. You're getting really close. I know, I know this is the best chance. I know the entire fight club organization is pulling for this. Yeah. Well, thank you. That's yeah. That'll be nice to, to check that one off and, and hopefully, you know, have more chances down the road, but yeah, this is a good year to have that happen. I suppose we, you know, Oh, I guess I maybe said too much there, but we'll see. Yeah. It's a, that'll be nice to see some little baby blackheads. If, if that occurs, I guess I'm not counting my hatchlings yet, but there you go. Yeah.

There you go. How about you? You got stuff going? Um, yeah, I mean, um, you know, I think, I think my season is pretty much done. Uh, no, no, no more eggs, uh, coming. Um, you know, just, I've got, I've got, you know, still got gecko eggs that are incubating and just kind of feeding stuff up and trying to get get babies going and move some stuff out. And, you know, kind of kind of kind of not not nothing new, really. So, yeah, I'm kind, kind of in my slog. My daughter got some banded gecko eggs. What? They crashed pretty shortly after they were laid.

So, kind of a bummer. But, you know, that's the nice thing about geckos is you get another chance in another 30 days. That's true. I said, write down those dates and set your watch, you know. I think we need to put in a nesting box. We had a nesting box in there, but it was too small. I think one of the females lost her tails, lost her tail in the nest box. I'm not quite sure how that happened, but maybe it was too narrow. And she trying to turn around or trying to back into a, you know, the burrow to lay her eggs or

something and lost her tail. So I felt really bad about bad about that one um so i think a bigger nesting box will probably help that out it's all fun and games until you eeyore that shit yeah so poor gal but yeah yeah my daughter was pretty sad yeah i was just gonna say how she how'd she do with that like what was it just the eggs were you know not did they no they were great we caught them right as they were laid like right out of the female like they were still kind of you know hot off the presses yeah exactly so we couldn't have you know caught them at a better time and then maybe just infertile or i don't know but i got them in the incubator. It was the first set of eggs. So, you know, man. Okay. You know, who knows? Yeah. We'll see what happens, but yeah,

she's enjoying them and doing a good job with them. So I hope she gets another chance and get some good eggs and get some hatchlings out of that. That'd be really cool. Me too, man. Yeah. Yep. But yeah, just, uh, Oh, since we recorded last last i got another clutch of inland eggs so good gravy man i don't know maybe i don't think i don't think that's clutch number two so i only have two clutches maybe we talked about it on the show the the quiz yeah maybe we did yeah maybe we did yeah and i spaced off a lot of things on that quiz show like the we were gonna talk about beforehand and like i just oh i know well i yeah i i think i teased you about about uh not having enough foreplay we went right

into you you were just excited like it was like yeah you you you had your you had your quiz show you saw you you you were focused and poised and but the quiz show went over great so you know i don't blame you i don't blame you for uh going right to the quiz show yeah well should we get into our uh debate of the fight of the night right about something yeah man it's been a while i feel like i haven't uh i haven't matched wits not that i really match wits with you i I just, I kind of, you know, like, like in, like in star Wars, you know, when Darth Vader and Obi-Wan are fighting and, and Obi-Wan's lightsabers kind of fizzling out, you know, right before Darth Vader cuts him in half and all his chonies fall to the

floor. That's kind of how it happens with us. I'm just chonies on the floor by the end of the show. Well, this, this was a suggestion from Dominic Carboneau. He, he, he suggested we fight about whether or not females should be bred and back to back years. So that was a cool topic. We'll we'll give it our best, see what we can do with this one. So we'll do our coin toss, see if Chuck's luck has run out or if he can continue to dominate.

You've missed the last couple. The last two. Well, so Frank or not Frank. Ron. Ron was the second one of the year, right? Yeah, I think so. I don't't know man i i'm shook dude i'm shook i i okay all right you ready uh that's tails that's heads wow shit oh man your luck has run out my friend you just dominated i dominated. I guess, hey, it's 50-50, man. You can only get so many in a row.

Yeah, but I was hitting 50-50 100% of the time. I'm in your head, man. I'm in your head. Oh, man. I'm back to I suck, Chuck. What the fuck? God damn it. Oh, boy. All right. back to ice sock chuck what the fuck oh boy all right all right well well i guess pick a side i think i'll go with i don't know what do i i think uh sure you should you should be able to breed females back to back i'm gonna go with that one So I'll let you lead off with why you shouldn't breed or why we shouldn't do that.

I mean, that's easy. I think, can you do it? Yeah, you can do it. You can do it. Should you do it, I think the, the bigger, the bigger question, it's a question that's, that's more of like a risk versus reward. And, um, you know, and I also think that it would depend, I think, you know, I'm going to maybe make a correlation and maybe some assumptions and say like that person who, you know, it's maybe their first

time breeding their, their carpet or their snake or whatever. And, and, uh, or, or even their, their lit, maybe monitors. I'll leave that out. Cause that's not a very, that's not a very good example, but, um, yeah, exactly. Exactly. Uh, but you know, so let's say you've got, you know, a carpet Python and you're, you're, you're just getting it up to breeding size and you breed it one year and then you just get eggs and you have success and good, good job. And, you know, you're totally jacked and you're totally pumped and you just, you know, dude, I'm reloading, I'm going to feed it up and I'm going to do it again. And I think, you know, that that potentially could be bad because you have a young animal that's that's still growing. It's still, you know, maturing. It's not quite adult size maybe yet. And, you know, I think reproductive events are pretty taxing on animals. And so, you know, maybe when it's young, giving it that year off, especially the first time it breeds, might not be a bad idea.

You know, and I think you can do it back to back. But I think you're, you know, when you do back to back reproductive events, it's really stressful on the animal. And I'm not going to say that I haven't done it. I'm not saying I won't do it. I just think that you have to be very, you know, very keen on what you're doing if you're going to do it. And I think if you're, you know, you don't, you haven't had the animals a while that you're not comfortable with it, that you're, you're potentially asking for trouble. Okay. Um, I mean, uh, yeah, I can, I can see that I suppose, but, um, I think, I think you hit on a couple of things that kind of, um, are the, are the key part of this is, is one, you know, we, we they're in captivity, so they get more energy and nutrients and things

like that than they would in the wild probably have to work a lot less for those things. And so they can regain their, you know, energy reserves and things like that pretty, pretty easily in captivity. And so, you know, and most often, especially, you know, people like you just want to yank those eggs away. And so they don't have to, especially with pythons, they don't have to sit on their eggs for two months, you know, and, and so they can make those energy stores back pretty easily. So, um, in a captive setting, uh, especially, you know, depending on the species, like I would say, Antaresia do great at laying eggs every year and they can regain that, uh, that energy reserve pretty quickly. And so I, I don't see, uh, many problems, you know, I've got some females that are probably going on a decade of, you know, year after year reproduction. And, um, I mean,

in the wild, would they, if they could, if they, if they can, and I would say on good years, if they have subsequent good years, they probably will reproduce. Um, if they can and and i would say on good years if they have subsequent good years they probably will reproduce um if they can you know reach that threshold that kind of tells their body to go for it um i have seen like in some of my captive animals you know just because you pair them doesn't necessarily mean they're going to breed so if they're not ready and their body isn't saying it's time to go, they probably won't lay eggs anyway. So, um, you know, she didn't like that. That's kind of cheating there, man. I mean, it's not me, dude. She's, she's got to listen to you too. i you know i i definitely think you know captivity if you know if as long as you're supporting your animals i don't think it's it's necessarily that

it's not going to negatively impact them as long as they're being fed you know enough to to reproduce and and they're being supported in the ways they need. And so I say, yeah, go for it. Yeah. I mean, I, I, I guess, I mean, I, I, I, I think you can do it. I think that, you know, in, in, in your case, you know, you, you cited your anteresia going back to back to back to back to back. You know, I think that can be done. I think, you know, you got to have optimum conditions, though. I mean, you need to be heating them correctly and feeding them. And, you know, I don't the, the expertise to comment on it. But I but I wonder about, you know, calcium absorption, and nutrient uptake, you know, like, like, just because we eat

a balanced diet, and and we take our vitamins, only a fraction of that, you know, of that vitamin is actually absorbed in every meal or any vitamin supplement we take. So, you know, of that vitamin is actually absorbed in every meal or any vitamin supplement we take. So, you know, you can you can still take vitamins and be vitamin deficient. Right. That's a that's a possibility. So, yeah, I mean, and, you know, I mean, there's other factors to that, like, you know, every individual is a little different. And, you know, I would I would make the same argument that every animal is a little bit different. Snakes are whole prey consumers, and they get pretty much a balanced protein and vitamin uptake from their food. So I'm not saying this whole shot as like, oh, no, you could feed them and they just become deficient. But oh, my goodness. See, now you're talking crap yeah i i i appreciate that you know and i think uh definitely back-to-back reproduction can take its toll on an animal and you know animals that are getting older they're often going to look

worn out anyway but like you said it depends on the species too i mean if you're not breeding your chameleons back to back they're probably gonna die you know you need to have you know that outlet for them you know i should be able to do that as i said like i'm leaving monitors out of it i would say i'd leave chameleons out of it yeah several times several clutches a year yeah so yeah maybe lizards aren't the best uh species or group to kind of discuss but i mean obviously there's some some like shingleback skinks you know do you breed your shingleback skinks every year i think you have one baby yeah i think you have to i mean yeah i mean well if I were you, I would say you probably don't breed those back to

back just because they put so much energy. I mean, the babies come out, you know, half the size of the adults and the adults are not small animals, you know, they're good sized babies. So that takes a lot of effort. And then the female carries those babies for quite a while and, you know, with the live birth and stuff. So, I mean, it's, you know, uh, obviously from a, uh, I guess, uh, herpetoculturalist view of, you know, breeding and selling animals, you could definitely make more money if you're going to breed them subsequent years. Um, you'll get more notoriety if you're chuck and you're breeding your halma hair you know your halma hair scrub pythons uh in subsequent back-to-back years subject thanks justin no no you've done that already i know but i didn't yeah but i well you changed something now you got to wait another five years god you're right that's's what I'm scared of. Oh my God. What have I done?

You know, you've got, you've got established groups and they know each other. So I'm hoping that they'll, they'll figure it, you know, figure it out a little quicker the second time around, I guess with,

with some minor changes. I've been talking, I've been talking my sexy shit to him. So hopefully, yeah, hopefully we get back on track. uh but you know it's definitely uh and i you know of course that has two sides so maybe i'll let you take the the other side on that argument of you know breeding animals for captivity uh you know we don't want to

turn into puppy mills that kind of thing you know we don't want to turn into puppy mills, that kind of thing. You know, you don't want to just be pumping out eggs and babies because you can, and you know, you have no outlet for them or something. So there's definitely the, the other side of that too. Yeah. And I think on, you know, thanks Justin, uh, on that, you know, I mean, I, I do think that, you know, giving them a year off is, is, you know, um, you know, and i i do think that you know giving him a year off is is you know um you know and and i and i kind of feel like okay you know tracy a bred that first year female looks good rare opportunity things seem to be hitting i'm gonna go for it yeah you know if i had the if i had the you know in giant air quotes formula for tracy a and i could do it year after year would i would i just go you know

relentless for the throat for clutch after clutch after clutch no way no way no way i wouldn't do it, you know. And I think there's, you know, I think, again, it goes back to that, you know, shine golden spoon hypothesis about, you know, how you want to distribute the reproductive life of that animal out. And, you know, I think you can get 10 clutches in a row or you can get 10 clutches throughout the life of that animal. I think it'll do both. You know, how long that animal lives if you do 10 clutches in a row into its geriatric years, does that affect it? I mean, you know. It could. I mean, obviously, you know, reproduction takes takes a bigger toll on some some snakes more than others. But I think what Shine kind of demonstrated that was that animals that do have those nutrients and have the, you know, the good good feeding years or the years of plenty.

Those are the ones that live longer, have more offspring, and grow faster than their counterparts. And so I don't know that that's necessarily a true statement that you can either have 10 clutches in a row or 10 clutches over the life of the animal. I think if these animals are raised appropriately and have a year of plenty when they of plenty, uh, when they start out, they may be able to go 20 years in a row. Who knows? You know, I, I don't know that we've, we've identified that or the, the jury's still out or the research is still needed on that, especially regarding animals in the wild. You know, I think they did, they probably collected a good decade worth of information on that population of water pythons. And that's I mean, but they kind of made those observations. Right.

And, you know, look, I'm not going to say that that's not a very complete study and that it didn't, you know, garner really just fantastic, you know, conclusions, but, you know, killer study. Yeah, definitely. Long, long-term study. Probably one of the best reptile studies you could do. Right. Like, I mean, and really interesting information. Yeah. And, and again, you know, it's water pythons that may not be broadly applicable because, you know, we have, and here I am going, you know, we have, and here I am going, you know, handing you more argument pieces on your side, but, you know, the research into green tree pythons and Daniel Natusha's papers and Wilson's papers, and some of the other researchers that have looked at green tree pythons have shown that they may only reproduce every

third year or fourth year, you know, and they may be more resource limited so that might go kind of to my point that you know if you've got the resources maybe you you'd be able to but then captivity doesn't really bear that out because it seems like female green tree pythons like to die pretty readily and i mean i i think i think you're also talking about two different things here because you're talking about captive captive pyththons, pythons that are reproducing in captivity versus wild pythons, their resource level access dictates their reproductive. I mean, that's exactly what Shine is saying. And some of the things that bore out of that of of resource of plenty brings a lot of the fruits of for those, those snakes. Sure. I get that. That makes sense. And, and, you know, I, it, that all makes sense to me. And I guess, you know,

what is it, but what does that mean in captive? Does that even mean anything in captivity? I mean, it is very complex. And I think, uh, one of our failings in herpetoculture is that we try to minimize how much space we keep these things in. We try to find the smallest cage that they can do, you know, the minimum amount of well in instead of going the other way. Now in nature, they've got access to all sorts of choices and different places they can, you know, therm regulate, they can go into cooler spots to totally shut down and conserve energy when the time comes. So, I mean, when we stick them in a two foot by two foot cube, you know, two by two by two foot cube, and we, you know, have a 90 degree,

you know, heat spot, and that's on pretty much all year round, we're not really given those opportunities to conserve energy when they need to. Sure. And so I'm not suggesting that every snake needs a room-size enclosure with every range of— I also think there is a middle ground where we can kind of select what, you know, give them the chance to make those choices. Yeah. And, you know, I would say for a majority of the, at least like the python species that we keep, especially if you're taking the eggs and artificially incubating them, you could easily have snakes that go multiple years, um, breeding and, and with no ill effects. Yeah. And I mean, I, I, you know, I don't know what the mechanism behind like boob

eggs or, or partially shelled eggs are. I would assume it's because the female couldn't fully shell the egg. Um, you know, and so to me that indicates a calcium deficiency or, or a lack of calcium. And, and so, you know, when I see, you know, when I see funny eggs, I'm kind of like, all right, what is this? Is this female getting enough, um, you know, uh, uh, nutrients to, to, to be doing what she's doing? Am I feeding enough? Am I feeding, you know, like it does necessarily feeding more equal proper, you know, the proper amount of, of nutrients that she needs,

or am I just throwing too much fat at her? Like, so, so it's like, you know, how you're, how you're feeding, what you're feeding. I just, I do think it's pretty complicated. And then, like you had said, when you throw in there the fact that you're keeping them in a two-cubed environment and you got the jerky heater on there, you know, I mean, you know, there's a lot a lot of you know there's a lot of other factors that can go into it and and you don't know if it's hydration or if it's temperature spikes or yeah you know they're the temperature dips we don't we you know it's really hard to say with some of those things and we just kind of get them and scratch our heads and move on yeah but there's been real no studies to study those kind of well and i also think well yeah yeah i mean screens sure but i think when we talk about choices what we're talking about is choices within

a narrow range right yeah i mean to some extent i mean yeah you know if we were going to give choices they should be able to get you know be able to warm really warm up or get really cool if they wanted to and that would be and then you could say no i give choices where if you're like well i give a 10 degree swing well maybe that's maybe maybe that maybe that 10 degree swing is good but maybe that's not you know maybe the swing is within their ideal area. You don't want to be shoveling snow. Like Terry says, we don't want to shovel snow into our cages because they have snow in the wild. Sure. But we also, but between 85, yeah, but between 85 degrees and snow, there's a lot of room. Yeah, exactly. And, you know, and like you said,

sometimes they can get really hot. I just finished up my cage for my Gernia depressa, this pygmy spiny-tailed skinks. And it's, you know, more vertically oriented because in the wild they're living in trees. And I came up with a pretty cool idea. I guess it's maybe not original, but it's kind of like a reed stack on its side where it mimics kind of cracks in, in tree limbs. So basically I just took, I sliced up a tree limb and then put spacers in between. So there's gaps. And so they can kind of go vertically in, in wedge inside there. So I was kind of excited. So they're like vertical wood, limb cracks. Yeah.

Yeah. Nice. Exactly. So it looks kind of cool and it's kind of a fun idea. So I'm, I'm hoping that will help them thermal regulate, you know, on that vertical plane. But I, I went in the other day and man, it was, it was a little warm in the room and, um, the hot spot was like at a hundred and 110 and the cool spot was like at 85. You know, I'm like, that's a little warm for the, the cool side, but you know, they, they, uh, they were down in the cool spot. So apparently right at that time, but I, I have a little video, uh, camera and like a remote camera set on them so I can watch them during the day.

And first thing in the morning, they'll come out and sit right in that 110, 120 basking spot to start the day off. And then they'll hang out under those warmer temps. So, you know, giving them that option. And granted, it's been colder at night, so they probably want to get to that heat first thing sure lights come on so um but it is fun to watch them kind of make those choices and have those choices yeah you know as as well as we can give them but yeah yeah i mean i and you know i i think is i i just uh you know this is this is a hard one for me to argue because i really don't think there's anything wrong with with uh back-to-back clutch and snakes. And I think if you're really doing your shit right, they're good.

You know what I mean? I mean, you can – I think you look at it with people. I mean, you talk about shingleback skinks being like all the eggs in one basket type of a reproductive strategy, just like humans. I mean, humans in their reproductive prime, they'll go year after year after year. I mean, you'll be blown out. I mean, it will be a rough, you know, after year. I mean, that's probably the hardest thing on a female is reproductive events. But then again, that's the whole goal, right?

To pass on their genes and to propagate their species. And maybe to your credit, you know, and this is probably anthropomorphism to a point, but I think you'll, I think it illustrates what I'm saying is, you know, maybe those younger water pythons that, that do back to back-back reproductive events, just like younger women tend to bounce back from pregnancies. As they get older, it's a little bit harder just because your body changes after you start having kids. And I think the resiliency is definitely slanted towards the earlier years of reproduction.

I think that's true in humans. I think that's true in all animals, really. I mean, you know, you're primed for reproduction when you're younger. Yeah, yeah. And I've got a female pygmy python that's going on. She's probably close to 20 years now. I think she hatched in 05. Nice.

And she's probably laid the majority of pygmy python eggs that I've had in my collection. And she's taken a few years off here and there. But for the most part, she's bred most of those years. She's rock solid since she was reproduced at least since she was in my hands i got her you know after she was an adult but she's done very well and and you know produced a lot of pygmy pythons maybe out there you know she's done uh so you know and i and i i would re-emphasize that too too, that depending on the species, of course, these smaller pythons are meant to have more offspring maybe than the larger one and probably faster. They'll reproduce sooner, a couple of years after they hatch in a good year potentially and get those offspring out there because they're prey for other things.

They're small, you know, whereas a large python, like a diamond or an Oenpele or something, they're not going to reproduce until they're six, seven years old and probably not every year. And, you know, they're more mesic level predators. And so they, they need to kind of, you know, you overwhelm or you have too many offspring and then you you got competition yeah i guess when they're smaller they're prey but yeah and i mean i i guess you know the way i kind of think about it too in captivity and you know maybe if you're i guess i guess it depends on like what type of a breeder you are or what, you know, at what kind of level you're at.

I would get why, you know, you or maybe Nick or, you know, somebody who does it like primetime once every year, every single year I want it. But, you know, for me, maybe every other year, like where I. Yeah, where I can raise up that last year, see what they look like, you know, like I'm not in a hurry to move snakes out and I can, you know, make choices about what, what directions. And especially with carpet pythons where, you know, you don't necessarily have a great eye. I mean, you can get an idea, but you don't, you know, you need, you need a year, at least a year before you're kind of like, okay, I, I got,

I got what I'm looking at here now. Yeah. That's a really good point. Just because you can breed them back to back, should you, you know, make sure you can handle it. Like, you know, we've got full-time jobs, we've got families, we've got, you know, things that, that take our time. And so we don't have time to be, if I bred all my anteresia, oh, I'd, I'd probably go

insane. Yeah. Just, yeah. You know, and and and probably to the detriment of the animals so i need to plan out you know okay i'm going to breed this pair this year and well and i think and i think that you know having that steady slow release into the market you know where where you're not just over over pulsing the market with with you know one type of species like it's great yeah you know like like ron was saying like with, with, you know, one type of species. Like it's great. Yeah. You know,

like, like Ron was saying, like, if I wanted to, you know, crush lace monitors, I could fill my building and I could just crank out lace monitors, but you know, that's not, you know, that's not good. That isn't ultimately good for lace monitors in the long run. Right. Um, you know, just because you can produce a ton of something doesn't mean it's a good idea to produce a ton of something. So, you know, maybe giving that female that year off or two years in between or whatever, however you want to do that. And and, you know, letting those babies grow up, finding good homes for those babies. Use that time rather than focusing on you know running those females ragged uh trying to reproduce use that time to find good homes for those animals to pick pick pick your

future of your projects to do things that around you know things that are really gonna you benefit you as a breeder uh you know rather than just how much can I absolutely pump out in one year? Yeah. Yeah. I think that's a wise course of action. You know, don't get in over your head cause it's, it's, it's detrimental to the animals and that's kind of what we need to be primarily focused on. I mean, it does feel good to like crush it. You know what I mean? I get, I get why people are like, yeah, I'm? I get, I, I get why people are like,

yeah, I'm, I'm, I, I crushing it this year. This is awesome. I understand that, but it,

you know, like if you've crushed it, you're also know how like, Oh crap. Like, this is too much. Like you, you gotta sit on tons of animals.

You gotta feed those animals, you know, like what's, you know, what's tons of animals you gotta feed those animals you know like what's you know what's right do you do you do the do you do the feed them once every blue moon and you know i don't feed my animals a ton or do you throw tons of resource at them and food and you try to breed them up and you know it's kind of like it's kind of weird that if you want to breed your animal every year right and make all these babies but then all the babies you sit around and hardly ever feed them does that make any sense that doesn't make any sense like you're kind of you're kind of

arguing for one side of the of the shine golden spoon hypothesis and then practicing the other once once you get the reproduction it's kind of like no, you got to be on one side of the fence or the other, man. That's a good point. Yeah. And, you know, I mean, I'm guilty. I just sold a pair of brettali that I produced a couple years ago that were still, you know, not where they could be. Sure. But, you know, they're kind of maintenance fed and very small for their age in some people's eyes, I guess. I don't know

how they would compare to wild ones, probably still a little small. And that's such a subjective thing, though, too, dude. You know, I mean, I think most people would look at my Tracy and be like, whoa, they're kind of small, you know, like for what I would see for what I've seen, how a lot of people feed, you know, know i mean i think people think scrubs are big you know big big animals and and they get a scrub if you're not going to get it up to 20 yeah i mean like you know two years old and eight feet right that's how it should be you know three years old eight feet like no man my animals are you know not anywhere even reasonably close to that so you know i i i guess you know and tell me i'm wrong for doing what i'm doing tell me i dare you i i freaking dare you

you know what i mean like so it's kind of like you know and and there's you know nick's breeding well nick's breeding tiny carpets you know what i mean but he's breeding him so it's like is he wrong like is that you know like what what's uh you know i i don't know i i think some of that's a pain like but but you know casey's point when during our um during that feeding uh between him and nick like i mean he made some great points there too you know so i mean i kind of i mean if i'm gonna raise something up to to breed and i want you know i i'm gonna feed it more than the other animals that i'm yeah you know i agree with that i i you know i i think i think i think there is a point where we all got fed this idea that feeding pythons is a bad idea or that it leads yeah it leads to negative outcomes and i just i don't think that's true i don't think we've not not with juveniles i don't think that's true

at all with juveniles with adults oh most definitely yeah and you see that but but i feel like but i feel like you see that before it happens right yeah you know what i mean like like somebody's like yeah check out my jungle carpet and you're like holy shit that thing's fat as fuck like that's not good and you know that they didn't know that that was bad but if they did they could have stopped it way before it got to that point. You know what I mean? Like, so I, I, I've seen, you know, pictures of animals in the wild that are,

that look huge, that look like an obese, you know, captive animal. Now, now the, the, the composition of that animal is probably a lot more lean muscle than fat.

You know, they're probably getting by on, you know, a little, but the frequency of those items may be more so they can gain some bulk and their ability for locomotion is much greater their you know their their ability to burn off those those those calories that they're taking in that's that's one thing i i never like i still don't know i'm still kind of on the fence on or trying to figure out. But do pythons?

I mean, they're they're built to sit. Yeah. So, yeah, no, I agree with you. And I don't I don't I think the jury's out on whether, you know, move a lot. They're not a coach whip that's moving around and hunting their prey. I agree with that. I guess what I'm saying is their potential, you know, in a wide open space to be very mobile and be very active is there, whether that's how they actually behave, you know, that's, you know,

whether or not that contributes to their, their body plan, you know, that's the question I have, I guess. And, and I don't know, I guess, uh, maybe the arboreal pythons might move a lot more pythons and boas and the arboreal ones tend to be a lot thinner bodied and you know is that because they're moving up and down trees or if it's because they get bulky they don't get up and down the trees you know which came first the chicken well and i mean i guess i would imagine that if if if males are fighting for the competition of females and you got to travel for that the fat lazy male lazy male probably doesn't fare as well as the,

as the mobile athletic. But the, but the big, you know, hefty male is going to be a much better fighter. And that's fair. And so, and so I guess,

I guess, you know, you see that with, with species like, like, uh, in Bricada, the Southwest carpet pythons,

um, in some populations, the males are actually, you know, absolutely tiny. The females are eating small wallabies. The males are eating mice, you know, and they're 20 fold smaller than the females, but they don't combat. They just kind of wait their turn for that giant female to breed her or whatnot. And, but, but you see the ones that do combat and have scars and things like that you know some of the coastal carpets and some of the darwins and things like that they'll the males can get absolutely huge and look you know very impressive now does that mean that a smaller male is not

going to slip in there slip in and out quickly because he's more agile and small you know that's still a strategy that's still a reproductive strategy. So, you know, that's, that's all kind of, it all works out for, for individuals. And, you know, you got the rock, paper, scissors strategy of the different, you know, the, the side botched lizards and the different colors and things. So, you know, there's different nuances. It's not just the biggest male wins and gets the females, but he may be able to fight off other males and keep them at bay while he, you know, breeds the female multiple times. And maybe a smaller one slips in when he moves out to go hunt or something, but you know, those kinds of

things it's, it's, it's more complex than just a, yeah, just feed in this many and they can breed every year. You know, there's, there's more that may go into it. And whether or not exercise really fits that, I don't know. I would tend to think for an ambush predator, it's probably not as important. They don't need to go out and lift weights and things like that to maintain their tone. But I imagine if they eat a bunch of fatty, know retired breeder rats they might they might have some negative impacts on their body plan you know sure so well and again i think it goes back to you know uh conflating what wild snakes do with what you know sure snakes in a box do and and um

you know clearly clearly snakes in a box do not get you know, I think it's I think we can agree that snakes in the wild get more exercise or are probably more active than snakes in, you know, in a cage. I think that's probably a pretty safe. Yeah. I mean, the the logic and the potential is definitely there right now i i thought that like about like uh mice like lab mice versus wild mice right and so we had a study where we were trying to measure uh if mice born to don't you bring your don't you bring your science into this. If we were looking at pups born to dams that were infected with West Nile. So they were exposed to West Nile in utero.

And when they came out, they looked really hyperactive. They're always moving and kind of crazy and stuff. And so we thought, oh, maybe, maybe, you know, exposure to this virus in the womb causes them to be hyperactive or that causes them to be more energetic or some, some weird thing, you know? So we, we put in some spinning wheels, you know, the, the wheels that the mice run on and it would count with every rotation. And so we'd put a mouse in there for the night, you know, so that was the only one in the cage and, and see how far it would run. How far do you think a lab mouse runs in a night?

What's your guess? Like five miles. Like it was shocking. Five miles. Like it was shocking. Five miles? Five miles. And actually the ones that were kind of hyperactive ran less on the wheel. You know, they didn't go as far as just the normal controls that were born to uninfected dams. And so it was like five miles these little lab mice are running. So less than a mile mice are sprinters and every other mouse is on the cross-country yeah or they're like oh what's that oh i gotta get off the wheel you know they get distracted the add is the ad something like west now causes add and

lab mice that's where we don't make those kind of conclusions but it was uh you brought the science into this man i'm just commenting yeah it was definitely surprising that a lazy you know lab mouse can run five miles in a night so that's pretty you know that's a lot longer than i thought and and that's in a in a lab cage, you know, no more than a foot long. And there's still, you know, that wheel gives them opportunity to run that far. So, you know, I remember Ryan Young saying, like, there was that debate whether or not green tree pythons should be kept in tall, you know, vertically oriented cages or horizontally oriented cages. And he's, you know, took video or something of his green tree Python overnight and watched how many times it did loops in the cage. You know, it was moving pretty much constantly all night long. Cause he, he would say, you know, if you don't feed it when

it, when it's begging every night, then they'll move around just like they do in the wild. And so, you know, even though they, they have kind of a limited area of movement they can still move quite a bit in there if they're given the opportunity if they have the surface area or the perches or whatever you know which lends some credibility to my statement that they probably move around quite a bit when they're in the water again like depending on the species now we're backing off again like a blood. How much is a blood python moving around? Okay. Yeah.

It depends on the species. So green tree pythons. Yeah. They move quite a bit. And, you know, the, the papers have shown they're going up and down, you know, a 20 foot tree every day and night. And so, you know, they're at least moving, you know, 40 feet in the night or whatever. So if they're going up and down a 20-foot tree so

yeah they're moving a lot more than like say a blood python that just has to find a spot a swampy little spot to sit there and be fat you know you can see which ones I prefer. Yeah. That was very judgy. Not those slugs. Sorry, Keith. Yeah. Yeah, I feel like. He's the master of those short tails and blood pythons. But anyway.

Nice getting pooped on. Are we. Are we. are we spent are we we are we discussed at all yeah we've done discussing and we've done fighting here i don't have much else in my unscientific repertoire to throw at this i i think the the main thing is is you know support your animals be smart with your decisions regarding their breeding. Don't just breed them to breed them, have, you know, have a plan for those offspring, be, be able to house them, you know, have enough caging to house all the offspring that you're producing and, and be able to keep them for a year or two if they don't sell, you know, and, and make your plans accordingly for the next breeding season.

If you still got more than half your clutch, don't make another clutch until you get rid of that first clutch, you know, and things go in waves. Some, some years things just fly off the shelves and people, people are clamoring for them and other years they sit around for a while, you know, so you got to be prepared to take care of those things. So that's kind of my thoughts, finishing thoughts, I guess. You have anything else to add or we? No, I'm pretty good. I think, you know, just, you know, again, it's reading the animals.

It's the conditions that they're in. It's taking the, you know, it's reading the animals, it's the conditions that they're in. It's, it's taking the, you know, it's, it's not just the fortune cookie, it's the whole dinner. So, you know, you got to take it all into account. So, um, you know, and, and if you're doing it right and all things are good, then there's absolutely no reason that you can't back to back to back toto-back-to-back the clutch or snakes back-to-back clutch. So you're saying I won. Thank you.

That's nice of you. Yeah. All right. Good job. Good job. Won the coin toss, won the fight. Good job. I'm just a big wiener.

I mean, winner. Yeah, that's correct. Okay. winner i mean winner yeah that's correct okay well i guess it's time to go shape some fake rocks right i'm working on some some more naturalistic cages uh for my geckos and spiny-tailed skinks and stuff it's been a lot of fun so have kind of happy with how they're turning out the the rock doesn't look as realistic as i'd hoped but it's it's getting there i'm getting a little better with practice yeah yeah you're gonna have to do like a series of cages yeah just like your your your evolution of yeah but i'm i'm i the main is I, I want to have a uniform size so I can run, you know, UV light over top of the cages, kind of a four foot UV over, you know, several cages. So see how that goes. But it's, yeah, it's nice. It's fun to give them more usable area within the cage and stuff. So.

Totes. to give them more usable area within the cage and stuff. So see how that goes. Yeah. Hopefully some of those depressa will pop out of the mom. She's getting huge. So little balloon the other night, she looked like, I think I saw a picture. She,

she is, she is looking quite rotund. Yep. And she's put on several, you know, like probably a good 12 grams. And so I'm hoping that that's that's all baby weight that'd be nice baby weight babies of those they're cool looking so what a fun species but yeah and

the tree skinks have been basking a lot and they're looking pretty rotund as well so nice i don't know about the hosmers uh they don't look like they're going to necessarily go anytime soon. But who knows? We'll see. I'm just trying to support them and keep them happy. We'll see what they do. Yeah. Yeah.

Fun to work with regardless of if they have babies or not. So I'm enjoying it. All right. Well, of course, big shout out to MerliPython's Radio.com. Go check them out. See the content. There's been some fun shows lately. Yeah.

Um, yeah, they got a lot of good stuff. Anything coming to mind lately? They're pushing merch. They got stickers of all the podcasts. Uh, looks like a repel fight club sticker,

dude. I'm down. Yeah. I, I, I think I. Or a mug. Yeah. I think I'd buy them out and just Reptile Fight Club shit all over fucking San Diego. We're going to have like a – people will think there is a whole underground Reptile Fight Club happening in San Diego by the time I'm done. So, yeah. So there's that.

I think Owen's trying to clear out his Rogue Reptile merch so he can transition into the Mack and Wookiee merch. So I saw that his stuff is a little bit cheaper than Eric's, and I can only assume that is to make room for the new Mack and Wookiee merch that I've heard is on the way. So I've heard he's embraced it. He's doing it, dude. I'm proud of him. I'm fucking proud of him. We haven't licensed it

to him. I mean, if you are the Mack and Wookiee, do you need to license yours? He's not doing it. It's not Owen doing it. I know that, but I feel like he could almost sue us for using his likeness you know what i mean you know what i mean

well i don't know you look at those pictures and tell me you can truly see owen in there it's just it just happens to resemble him a little bit right oh it happens a lot we had shots fired on one of our uh friendly little uh podcasts here what they're they're gunning for us who's talking shit the australian herpetoculture podcast they're talking about how how they're kicking our trash and they're the number one show well maybe they weren't using those exact terms but steve crawford was on there my buddy he he was he was like kind of rubbing it in a little bit so steve you're you're on you're on the list man you better come on the show soon yeah ain't nobody come here you want the smoke at least come on the show and you know like then we can discuss yeah exactly no he did he did a really

great episode uh of the australian herpetoculture podcast and we're giving them some some props they they do a good show they do do a good show and and you know what if anybody's gonna have the number one we're glad it's them there yeah yeah Yeah. We'll be the bigger people, right? We are the bigger people. So, but yeah, I was, I'm, I'm sure it's all in Jess, but yeah, Steve was, that was pretty funny. He was making a little bit of, yeah, bit of a snide comments about how they're, they're beating us in the, in the polls. That was, that was in December. So, you know,

we'll have to see what's going on currently. I agree. I mean, I have to hit up the pod father and find out which, which podcast is second to NPR. Yeah. Yeah. Get a little ammunition for those Aussies. Oh, and Steve's not even an Aussie. He, I mean, he's a, I guess he lives there, but he's an Englishman. He should be more proper drinking that tea. Pinkies up. Crumpets. Crumpets, nipper. I want the crumpets. All right. Well, I guess, uh, does that count as shots fired back?

No, we gave them props. I mean, that's about as shots fired as you get. You're a pretty nice guy, Justin. You're like, I'm going to talk shit, but I'm totally keeping it civil. You know what I mean? It's all in good fun. Of course. And they didn't mean anything by it.

What is a good ribbing amongst family members, right? There you go. That's the best kind, right? You have to have the love and the history to be able to – That's right. We're all in the same family. We're podcast siblings. So, yeah, we'll throw a few jabs, but it's all good in the end.

We're all family. Now, those guys on the other network, they don't have that guarantee. I was just going to say, if somebody else starts talking trash about someone in the family, you know what happens. There you go. You know what happens. Schmitty, you know what you've done. Yeah. You might get a schmitty down.

Come on. you've done yeah you might get a shmeet down in turn come on that was yeah that was uh that came out in the run uh ron's episodes yeah i felt bad that we we asked a question about on the quiz show before anybody i know i i was like i and it didn't connect with me because i was like you know it happened out there yeah and i was, man, that's so bad. Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, it was all in good fun. Yeah. Yeah.

All right. Even though there are number one rivals, check out the Australian Herpeticulture Podcast. There's a lot of good podcasts coming up, too. Well, I mean, it's about boas. Boas? Exactly named boas, boas, boas. I'm not much of a boa guy so i'm not either i mean i like rosy boas but i'll listen i mean there's there's some bright minds on that podcast so i'll listen just because of the the bright minds even if i'm not really you're drawn to the intellectual fortitude

that's right but you're you're I mean, Rosie's are cool. I still need to find them though. Oh man. I'm waiting for the local guide of San Diego to show me where to, you know, find these things. So me too, man,

me too. Oh shit. You're talking about me. Local guide. Chuck. All right. Well, if anybody's still listening,

thanks for listening. We appreciate you guys. Well, if anybody's still listening, thanks for listening. We appreciate you guys. And, uh, and we're, we're thankful for, for everybody out there that's given our podcast a chance and for all the nice things people are saying, we really appreciate that. You guys rock. Thanks for listening. And thanks for being, you know, supportive of the podcast so guess with that we'll say we'll catch you next week for another episode of reptile fight club i declare justin this this episode's fight club wiener Thank you. Outro Music