Reptile Fight Club - RFC Arizona Herp Trip Recap

Episode Date: October 7, 2022

In this episode, Justin and Chuck discuss their recent Arizona herping trip. Who will win? You decide. Reptile Fight Club!Follow Justin Julander @Australian Addiction Reptiles-http://www.australianaddiction.comFollow Chuck Poland  on IG @ChuckNorriswinsFollow MPR Network on:FB: https://www.facebook.com/MoreliaPythonRadioIG: https://www.instagram.com/mpr_network/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtrEaKcyN8KvC3pqaiYc0RQMore ways to support the shows.Swag store: https://teespring.com/stores/mprnetworkPatreon: https://www.patreon.com/moreliapythonradio

Welcome to Reptile Fight Club. What's going on, people? I'm Justin Julander, and here's Chuck Poland. Say hello to the people. Hello, friend. Hello, reptile friends. All right. Well, we have just returned from a trip to Arizona. And I figured we would talk about it here because it was kind of a reptile fight club trip, me and Chuck.

Yeah. And we had another NPR family member, the newest intern, Dustin Grahn. After herping with Dustin, I do not think it is appropriate to call that man an intern. Yeah, right. He definitely graduated in my book. He's got a good eye for herping, for sure. He sure does. He's a lot of fun too i think and then of course we had

the mr zoo man uh steve sharp with us and uh old friend from way back when so that was a lot of fun to to have steve uh there too so i missed i missed hanging out with steve it was so cool to be able to kind of you know i mean i got to sit in the car with him for hours on end driving from California to Arizona. So that was nice to catch up. Yeah. Just his – I don't know. Just his philosophy about reptiles and keeping and his breadth and scope of his experience and animal husbandry skills are just phenomenal. Like just to sit and kind of like talk to him about stuff is just, it was fantastic.

For sure. And you've probably already heard the, the, um, episode that we recorded from the field. Uh, so hopefully you enjoyed that and got to listen to Dustin and Steve and Chuck and myself. Uh, that was a fun discussion. A little disrupted by driving and figuring out directions and focusing on the road and crazy safety stuff like that. Trying to road cruise and do a podcast at the same time does not lead to the most focused

attentions. But it's fun. I mean, you know, you got to hear real time when we found a snake or whatever so that was kind of fun um but we didn't talk a ton about the trip we did talk about some of the aspects of the trip so i mean we might have a little bit of repetition there but uh what a great trip um we'll uh, let's flip the coin. Um, we'll, uh, go ahead and call that. What are we flipping for? Heads? It's heads. You win. Hey, I win. What did I win?

So we get a fight about, uh, if Steve really hates turtles or if he doesn't hate turtles. Oh, gosh. There was a lot of discussion about turtles, so that was funny. Steve does not hate turtles i would i would take that side but after all of the back and forth i'm not even sure anymore i don't even know what side steve's on i i don't even think steve had a side by the end of that steve steve's side was he doesn't want to have a collection that's just turtles he wants other stuff in the collection. Fair enough. Fair enough. Fair enough. Man, I was watching Tyrone Ping on YouTube earlier today, and, man, that guy, he found the rarest tortoise in the world, like a tent tortoise.

It's just beautiful. It kind of has a star tortoise pattern on the shell, just out doing its thing in the bush. Oh, here's the rarest tortoise in on the shell just out doing its thing in the bush you know and here oh here's the rarest tortoise in the world pretty cool and uh they come from very limited range and and they're just not doing great in you know yeah uh so and they're very upon it yeah yeah and they definitely don't uh breed very well in captivity and so that's another thing that's hindering their progress so are you saying that people are collecting them and then trying to breed them breed very well in captivity. And so that's another thing that's hindering their progress.

So are you saying that people are collecting them and then trying to breed them and having awful success and they're dying and it's just leading to the problems? No, I think people, I mean, good organizations have tried to collect and breed them, you know, like and not had good success trust and things like that. Gotcha. So, yeah, I don't know. Anyway, that was kind of an aside. That was totally a side thing. No, I've been looking at a lot of herping videos when we come back. So I guess that was part of that.

That's what it is. You're like a herping junkie that just is on a herping crash. And you're like, I've got to get to YouTube to get Jack back up again. Yeah. I had to go back, and I watched a video. And of course, I can't remember the name off the top of my head. Dr. Mushbrain. Because we'll talk about this, but we went looking for the brown vine snakes in Arizona.

And there was, I mean, they're not easy to find obviously and so um that was part of the fun i guess of you know maybe there's a chance you might see one and and some you know there there are issues or there are instances of people finding them on their first try you know they go down the habitat drive the road, and they find one on the road, and, oh, that wasn't so hard, you know, that kind of thing. And maybe you had maybe a little bit of that on this trip, you know, your first time out there, and you see kind of some of the harder stuff to find, and you found some of it. Are you saying that I, are you marginalizing my, are you marginalizing my contribution? My only contribution?

Not at all, not at all. My significance. It was a great contribution. Yes, it was. Maybe you might come away with the attitude of, oh, that was easy. That was a piece of cake. No, that definitely was not easy. So this video, I guess it's the Catch It is the name of the YouTube channel. But this kid has been looking for vine snakes for years or,

you know, it may, and he, and he actually compiled all of the, um, old footage of him saying, Oh, here's a snake.

It's not a vine snake. Or, Oh, we looked for vine snakes all day, found nothing. And it's like trip after trip after trip showing him looking for vine snakes and not finding any. And then he found

one and like i mean he was so overjoyed he he started crying like he was so happy that he found one finally you know and it was pretty it was pretty good it kind of gets you you know but uh so anyway we we we looked for some hard targets and we looked for some maybe less hard targets but still pretty hard targets so we'll talk about that so i guess the um so to start off the trip i i had some unused frequent flyer miles and so and and we'd been down in arizona and herping with dustin and i thought you know i kind of want to go back during the monsoon season. And I knew that, you know, the NPR guys, Rob and Eric and those guys, they were going to Australia in October. So they probably couldn't do another trip. And so I thought, well, I'll just make it, you know, just I'll do a solo run out there.

I'll just go down for a few days. Justin's like, here's an opportunity for me to increase my species count without those guys competing against me. No, no, no, he would not do that. Not that the doctor is competitive because he's not, he's not folks. I'm here to tell you he's not competitive at all. We've established that, right? And so, so I contacted Dustin. I'm like, Hey, you know, if you'll, if you'll drive me around, I'll pay for gas and, you know, that kind of thing. So he's like, sure. That sounds great. So'm like, hey, if you'll drive me around, I'll pay for gas and that kind of thing. So he's like, sure, that sounds great. So especially with gas prices, no, they're actually coming down.

They were not horrible. They were not horrible in Arizona, which is ridiculous because it's right next to California where they're still horrible. Everything needs to be expensive in California. Everything is horrible in California right now. That's how can we drive them out of that state to other states to ruin our housing markets it's how we're repatriating californians i tell you i saw a car we were going through yellowstone and there was a car that had california plates and there was a note in the window that said this is a rental we are not from california like i don't know if they were getting hassled from being from California. They were just vandalizing the rental.

Like, we do not want to pay the deposit on this. Stop vandalizing our car. Stupid Californians are going to vandalize their car, stabbing their tires or something. Yes, we Californians, I hate to say it, if you're listening to this and you're a Californian, you are hated in all of the other states in your in your united states that's pretty funny but anyway so you know i i uh i thought oh this will be a fun fun time to just get down during the monsoon i'd never really heard to arizona during the monsoon i've been down in october and june and and then um and i thought well it might uh, might be interesting to kind of compare and contrast with time during the monsoon season.

And so, uh, schedule with Dustin. And then I mentioned it to Steve. I was talking to Steve on the phone and he's like, oh, I might be able to come down, you know? Uh, and, and I'm like, that would be awesome. And, and I, you know, we've, we've had, uh, times before where I thought maybe he, we were going to meet up or, or, you know or something came up and so it didn't happen. And so I thought, well, if he can make it, that's awesome.

If not, I'll just proceed with the trip. And then I mentioned it to Chuck on the podcast. And so you probably heard that fun thing about – no, no. I mean mentioned that Steve was coming and that I was herping Arizona. I thought I'd mentioned it to you, but I probably didn't. I probably spaced it out. You did not. And I probably assumed that it was just going to be me and Dustin, you know, cruising around in his little truck, which is kind of like a two-seater, you know, there's not much room in the back row. And so that was one of the reasons that Steve decided to drive down and, you know, that kind of thing. And so, and then you're like, wait, Steve's coming?

I'm coming then. So, you know, and the rest is history. But Steve drove down, picked you up. And to get there kind of in a reasonable time, I didn't realize this was going to, you know, this is what he had to do. But Steve woke up at like 1.30 in the morning and drove down so he could be at your place early like 8 or 9 a.m 8 yeah he got my place like 8 30 said he left about 1 30 and uh yeah it was crazy i was up late that night you know taking care of reptiles getting everything done and i went to sleep around two o'clock i woke up around six o'clock and steve still had two and a half more

hours in the car so i was like oh my gosh you know yeah i don't know why i thought he was closer to you like you know just a couple no it's it's kind of a it's kind of a drive i mean it's yeah it is and definitely like through having to go through la area yeah yeah i mean it's a pretty boring drive too before you get to la or you get through the mountain the mountain pass in la um and then there's la traffic and all kinds of la potential fun there so it's like yeah he he uh but he did he made really great time yeah got to me and and uh yeah so meanwhile i i woke up at you know 5 a.m drove down my brother drove me out to And, uh, yeah. a little Rubbermaid container and inside the Rubbermaid container was a tiger rattlesnake. And, you know, I think he said the, the airport was, was thinking he was a terrorist or something.

And I'm like, why would they think that if you're just sitting here with a tiger rattlesnake in your car, you know? Uh, so, um, but that was our first order of business. We, we went and, uh, released that into suitable habitat close to where it was found or collected um collected inside that was a real that was a relocation yeah yeah yeah so we wanted to get it out of you know whoever's yard it was in and and he sent a picture and he's like hey my my dad found this and and we'll go relocate it when you get here and i'm like oh that's awesome and the picture made it look huge but it was actually kind of a smaller individual it's kind of you younger. Maybe I think it had, what, two segments on its rattle. So very young. Oh, yeah.

So we went and released that. And we were kind of hiking back and looking at other stuff. And all of a sudden, you contact us. And you're like, oh, we're here. We're like two hours away. And I'm like, oh, cool. They're making really good time. And then Dustin's like, oh, crap., two hours away and I'm like, Oh, cool. They're, they're making really good time, you know? And then Dustin's like, Oh crap, we got to get out of here. I got to get

crickets and I got to do this. And so we, we hurried over and went to a pet store and they took forever getting the crickets. And, and so we just kind of were hanging out at the pet store. He finally got his crickets. We ran home and you guys had beat us to his house. And so, I mean, I was, I was impressed with, you know, that you guys made such good time. So we, we met up at your, at Dustin's house. You guys actually started herping before, you know, before we even got there. Yeah. We had a desert, a desert iguana that we saw right off the bat when we got there.

And Steve's like, Oh, I can get my get my uh my my my lizard noose and so we were we were trying to noose this thing to catch it and uh no luck the dang thing was was was uh was keyed in he knew he knew what was coming so yeah we it was cool to i've never i've never seen uh i've never seen uh like a noose pole like that. I was not familiar with that. So I got to see all kinds of, you know, like Dustin's Stump Ripper. And, you know, those are new tools. Now I'm like, oh, I got something I got to get. So, you know.

Did you ask for anything for your birthday? Get you a good Stump Ripper or something? Yeah. No, I need to. I mean, they're probably they're not cheap man that's an expensive uh that's an expensive uh field tool he's got there uh so i'll get it you know i i just uh yeah you know slowly slowly but surely get it you know that's correct good headlamp good you know all that good stuff comes yeah yeah i got a decent

headlamp my my headlamps decent oh yeah. I blinded everyone in the car with the damn thing, right? Yeah. You learn herping etiquette pretty quick when you're on a trip. Turn your light off. You're blinding me. Come on. Yeah, it goes right into the rearview mirror and blinds the person in the front seat. Really.

Yeah. All the fun things about herping. And then, you know, we still do that that even if we've been out lots of times. So you guys saw the desert. I didn't see one. I didn't see one this trip. I have seen them in Arizona, up in northern Arizona, kind of across the Great Divide from St. George area. There's a canyon.

You go through the canyon, then just kind of there in that northern corner of Arizona, northwestern corner. I've seen quite a few. They're cool. I mean, I couldn't get that close. It was pretty weary of us. And when they're out, it's hot and they're active and they're fast. It was hot. It was in the middle of the day.

It was hot. And that thing just scooted on us when we tried to, you know. Once it the the news poll coming it was kind of like i don't think so so yeah they they uh know what's going on there i i did catch one by hand once but it was like a nice fresh hatchling it was it was a little one so i didn't feel too too uh i couldn't brag too much because it was dumb and young but anyway they're cool cool lizards for sure um fun to fun to watch and and see but um so then we met up we loaded up everything into steve's car and we hit the road so we went uh east um over towards the chiricahua range um we stopped by a spot to look for western hognose or mexican hognose snakes is it mexicans

down there um and i i had seen we'd seen one on on the one of the npr trips and it had just been hit by a car it looked perfect it was just laying there in the road so i was like i really want to see a hognose in the wild so that was kind of one of the first targets so we went out to area where they were you know known to be and and we traveled actually we actually went to two areas where they're known to be found and and uh you know struck out on that one so we didn't we did not find we did not find hog nose but we found other stuff yeah cruising in that area we we saw three different snake species that first evening first day um and a ton of amphibians man that the frogs were out in full the frogs and toads were out in full force so we saw some some cool stuff so that included i think the

the toads kind of popped up first and so i got to see my first wild Colorado river toad. Yeah. Really cool species. Big old huge things. Uh, in some instances, but we also saw some juveniles that had some really nice markings and stuff, but I really liked that greenish color, but I guess I'm getting ahead of myself. Cause the first thing we saw was that,

uh, checkered garter snake. Right. And so that was the first snake of the trip before that we actually had Dustin had rescued a couple of toads from an underground aquifer so he pulled the you know kind of pulled the lid off of it and reached down and kind of fished these toads out of a you know kind of a watery grave if they stayed down there um but he got a chihuahuan green toad and a great plains toad and so we got to see those two species and man those green toads are gorgeous

just really cool patterns on them and bright green oh just beautiful things so and and we'd seen those the i'd seen those on the previous trip that we did with Dustin in June. And he was the one that showed us that, that spot where we found those. And he was, he rescued a few other things that time too, but that was probably my favorite find in that spot was that green toad. And then we traveled kind of more through the area. We, we did find a track of a big it looked like it maybe would it would have been a big hognose snake or or uh you know maybe a western diamondback or something but big track across the road and we looked and tried to follow it and

being a giant teaser yeah yeah but there was a ton of like it was like basically a dumping ground there was just trash everywhere so i mean a lot of good artificial cover but also i mean just a lot of trash just too much trash to even sort like you know it's just like yeah tons of hiding spots yeah it could have been yeah you know a hundred dog nose in that area and we wouldn't have seen them because there's just so much too much too much to sort through yeah yeah so it was probably in there somewhere but we we weren't lucky and didn't catch on that uh target so um once it once it got dark we you know the toads started coming out we saw mexican spadefoots we saw yeah great plains great plains toads uh more coloradoains toads, Colorado river toads. And then we road cruised the snake. Which one was first?

Was it the, what did we see that night? We saw a gopher snake. Let me, I'm going to pull up my picture so we can talk about this in order. But there was, didn't we see a gopher snake that first night? I believe we did. Snoring gopher snake that first night? I believe we did. Snoring gopher. I'm pretty sure we did. Yeah.

So, uh, the, there was a gopher snake. There was, we didn't, man, I don't know. It's only, it's only been a few days, but my memory is already starting to fade. Thank goodness for pictures so I can remember stuff you know but uh okay so we we covered the green toad the the great plains the checkered garter and then oh there were tarantulas out we saw a few tarantulas out there that was pretty cool um okay so the first snake after the sun went down besides the checkered garter was the long nose snake oh yeah yeah that thing was beautiful that's a cool yeah it really was that orange in there man i i don't know every time i see one in the

wild i'm like why are these not more popular in the hobby you know why don't why don't people breed these i mean they're just gorgeous that orange they're almost like a you know almost like a tricolor in some ways or maybe maybe a bicolor. But I always heard they were really difficult to get established. Like they'd only eat lizards, but both Steve and Dustin were like, nah, people can get them established on rodents pretty easily. And I imagine with some captive breeding, they'd be just like any other, you know, king snake or milk snake and do just fine. So after that was when we saw the Sonoran gopher snake.

And it was a juvenile. It was pretty small, but nicely colored and feisty, man. It kept striking and stuff. It was pretty cool. But fun little snakes for sure. And then, yeah, more toads. We saw some insects

that were kind of cool. That big old Katie did that was all green with the white stripes. That was kind of cool um that big old katie did that had kind of it was all green with the white stripes um that was kind of neat looking and then that walking stick was pretty oh yeah the walking stick was cool yeah and i think that was actually after we drove to the next area where we camped it's kind of more of a deserty spot uh out kind of it was actually new mexico so we crossed the border um just just a bit into new mexico and uh slept in a nice sandy wash it was pretty that was a cool spot man it was yeah spot i really enjoyed i really enjoyed that spot i kind of wish we had found some more stuff there but

yeah um yeah i mean you know it was it can be hidden hit or miss in that spot but it was uh but we did see you know a couple cool things but so we went we walked around after we parked and set up our camp we walked around for a bit and steve had a cool like flashlight that would make these uh different minerals glow do you know what that was all about i didn't know the discussion on that i mean it just makes i don't know it's just whatever's in some of those rocks luminesces with that light. It's almost like a black, it looked almost like a black light that causes certain minerals to luminesce

under that light. But yeah, it was pretty, it was pretty neat to kind of look at some of those rocks and see some of those colors. Yeah. Pretty, pretty cool. Yeah. He shined it on some and they like glowed orange, like orange, really cool orange. And then he, you know, I turned on the normal light, just the white light. And it was like, they were, they were just ugliest plain rock. Yeah, exactly. Nothing to it.

Exactly. Yeah. So then I think it was there that Dustin found that walking stick and then we were walking along and he spotted this orb weaver that is that had a praying mantis in its web and it was you know webbing it up and getting ready to to have a nice feast so i imagine i could have gone either way but the spider spider went out in that instance i wonder if the praying mantis just flew into it by accident or if he was actually trying to get the spider or what and just lost out yeah

and then not far from there there was a second praying mantis that was stuck in in another web and i think he was actually not as stuck and ended up getting free or you know got out of the out of the web but then we saw a third one another spider and the mantis was actually still alive still kind of moving around so So kind of crazy. A bunch of different wereweavers. And if you didn't pay attention, you'd walk right into their web. Right into them. Yeah, for sure.

You had to kind of pay attention to where you were going, which is hard when you're looking down at the ground. Yeah, because you're a reptile. Exactly. So then we kind of walked around for a bit and then hit the sack and everybody slept uh pretty comfortably i mean i think i woke up time to time but it was it was for the most part pretty pretty soft ground uh yeah that was the best ground to sleep on if you were sleeping on the ground i uh i brought my little i brought my little inflatable yeah my little inflatable mattress i don't think it mattered where you stayed you had that no man yeah nice

comfy mattress so i'm like man that's a good idea and you started it was it was a little legit like especially especially later on where the ground wasn't quite so uh wasn't quite so cooperative yeah yeah so that was a smart smart thing to bring I think. Did it sag in the night? Did it lose air? No, it was good. Even in the colder spots, huh? Yeah, no, it was fine. You didn't have to inflate it halfway through the night?

No, it did good. Oh, hi, Ruby. Thank you. Yeah, I just brought my little desert sleeping bag, you know, so I figured we were were gonna be out in the desert so i kind of had this light uh cheap you know sleeping sleeping bag made in china thing and uh it did okay there you know it was nice i i got a pretty good night's sleep but um and there was some cloud cover so it was you know not not too bad not the i i didn't plan the trip in in the best

regards regard you know for the moon phase and it was full moon you know the moon came up nice and bright but the cloud cover kind of mitigated that a little bit but um and we still saw plenty of stuff so you know we talked about that on the last uh pod or on the podcast um with with steve and dustin about the moony moon did not stop the herpy herp yeah and maybe if it wasn't a full moon we would have seen twice as much who knows it's hard to say retrospectively but yeah so we woke up to a very nice sight. The sunrise was fantastic. It's beautiful out there. Just bright orange horizon.

Picturesque. Yeah, picturesque sunrise. Just beautiful. So we walked up on top of the rocky outcrop there and enjoyed the sunrise. Although Dustin had a little accident there he he stepped down on some rocks and split his foot open like his heel just like this big gash from the rocks in his heel he was bleeding all over up there and that was that was pretty rough but uh but he handled it like a champ you know he was rub some dirt on it put a sock on exactly

moved on maybe limping around a little bit here and there and but he you know, he was rubbing some dirt on it, put a sock on. Exactly. Moved on. Maybe limping around a little bit here and there. And, but he, you know, he's, he's pretty tough kid. He didn't complain. He didn't, no, he didn't stop him at all. Maybe it, maybe it slowed him down a little. So he was more at our level and we could keep up with him. It's probably the reality of that.

But yeah, we, I, I, I was really nice just to sit and enjoy the sunrise and, you know, watch it progress. And then we got to Herp and we walked around that area and Dustin found an alligator lizard, which we didn't expect because it was a pretty, you know, desert-y spot. And alligator lizards are usually found up in the mountains. So that was kind of a shock. And we actually found out you can find, uh, um, montane rattlesnakes out there too. So that was, uh, a little bit of a surprise as well. So I think we're going to go back there and maybe try to hit some of the upper elevations to see either more alligator lizards or maybe some globs or something, but that'd be cool. Definitely a cool spot. We saw some spiny lizards or maybe some globs or something. That'd be cool. Definitely a cool spot.

We saw some spiny lizards on the rocks. I think I got pictures here and there. And then as we got back in the car, we were hoping to see a Gila because this is a decent spot for Gila monsters. Yeah, that was the big one.

I think we were really looking to hit. Yeah, we were kind of targeting them, looking around to base the rocks. But yeah, we did not get lucky with that. And I haven't seen a Gila monster at this spot. But as we drove out and we're heading other places, there was a giant Aatrox right in the middle of the road. Big old Aatrox. Pissed. Like that thing was he was he was he was uh ready to rumble there yeah um but had that nice uh kind of pinkish undertones and really a pretty snake

beautiful snake yeah struck repeatedly he wanted to go under the car we were trying to keep him yeah even going under the car and oh my gosh it's like he knew what a hook was, and he could evade a hook pretty easily. That was the most non-hook cooperative snake I've ever seen in my life. Yeah, right? Slipping over that hook. Oh, it's just very difficult. He did get under the car a couple times. Oh, yeah.

More than once. More than once, yeah. The snake is outsmarting us. Once we got him in a little bit of grassy area, he settled down a bit so we could get some pictures and stuff. Yeah. Some great, great video of him rattling and posing and yeah. Cool. Yeah. He had about 10 segments on his rattle. He had a big, good size, good size rattle, but a beefy snake, man.

He was huge. Well fed. that's always uh kind of that i don't know that gets you gets you um that adrenaline pumping when you see a big venomous snake like that but yeah what a what a cool animal had that bright you know black and white banded tail um but very cool then we headed down towards the Chiricahuas kind of the southern area down through Rodeo and Bob's place

we drove past there and went up into the Chiricahuas range and on the way I think there was a spot for flipping, we flipped a bunch of stuff but all we managed were a couple death feigning beetles, those little blue beetles. They were pretty cool looking. They were cool looking, but yeah.

Not what we were looking for. Yeah, not so much. We went a little further south and there was a DOR rattlesnake that looked like it was most likely one of the hybrids between a Mojavejave and a viridis a prairie rattlesnake and so i mean it just had all the hallmarks of the the hybrid and this was within the hybrid zone and so and we're pretty sure that's what that was so kind of cool to see um Really a unique looking animal. But unfortunately, it had just been hit by a car. So bummer that way. But it would have been better to see it in life. And it had just been hit because this big, what, oversized load had rolled through just before we got there.

Yeah, yeah. Kind of sucked. Yeah. We went to another spot to look for hognose snakes again, but again, no luck with those. I wonder if we would have maybe spent a little less time in the deserty area, if we would have maybe had a better chance to see them kind of at first sunrise and things. But what do you do? So we headed up into the mountains that's what we did and uh went to

an area where we were hoping to find uh the twin spot rattlesnake crudless price guy and um we'd been up in in you know the mountains looking for those a bit but hadn't had any luck and spent quite a bit of time and energy looking for them so we were our you know our hopes were high but uh our expectations maybe were managed we saw some cool lizards there was the yarrow spiny lizard they're really kind of a cool species kind of really uh have some um you know their colors kind of pop in the sunlight, that kind of thing. Have some really nice oranges and greens on them and stuff. So watch those cruise around. We also saw a striped plateau lizard.

I think Steve got that one in hand. Really nice, bold stripes on it. Did you see that one? I don't remember that one. I wonder if you were over the hill or something. Yeah, I might have been off. We kind of split up a little bit to kind of maximize our chances which is always that's the best that's the best that's the strategy strategy yeah yep exactly yeah so exactly um you know the species count was rising

you know with each new lizard found and i don't i think i'd seen the Striped Plateau lizards on previous trips. But yeah, it was new for you on that one. And then if you saw it, I don't remember if you saw it. Yeah, I didn't. But yeah, you're right. It's all new for me. Yeah. So we went to a different area.

And man, not too long after we started listening or hiking through this area. Why don't you take it from here there? Yeah. So Steve had stayed back and you and Dustin had taken off and were kind of moving through. And the amount of wood and material that was down there made it kind of tough to get through. Yeah, a lot of fallen logs and fires had gone through there and stuff. Yep, yep. And I was trying to catch up to you guys because you guys were up in front of me. And I finally caught up to you guys.

And you had kind of walked off so it was like dustin and i we were kind of walking like just kind of moving parallel but yeah through yeah through different not so we weren't overlapping this but i was i was kind of right behind dustin and all of a sudden i heard this this just this faint uh rattle this faint I was like, dude, did you hear that? And Dustin looked at me like, no, what would hear what? And I was like, that rattled. Did you hear that? And then it rattled again. And he's like, Oh my God, Chuck, you did it. Oh my God. So that we kind of went into the, like, okay, where is it mode? Um, and, and it was down in, in, in some, uh, brush and debris down, you know, wood debris down, um, kind of right by us.

Uh, we found it and it was right between his feet. Like, yeah, more or less over it basically, you know? Yeah. So, I mean, and you know, there was just, you wouldn't, if, and, and that was like, that's like the cool thing about those things. They're so small and there's, there's so much cover there that if they don't buzz you, you probably walk right past them. And I think that's what would have happened if it wouldn't have rattled for us.

But it did, and thankfully we got it and got some great pictures of Price Eye. So that was kind of of and that was my one and only contribution oh no no that was that was a great contribution it was a good wasn't your only contribution but yeah it was uh really cool to see that we were very excited that was a lifer for all of us except steve steve had seen him before steve had found it before. It was kind of cool because Dustin and I had herped that same area looking for price high. It was nowhere near the talus because the talus was off limits. You can get a hefty fine if you herp the talus during that spot. So we stayed away from the talus area.

Well away from the talus area well well away from the talus yeah but but uh you know we we were in the right habitat obviously and and they don't just restrict themselves to the talus they move around and it looked to be a male you know it's kind of a smaller individual but had quite a few rattle segments and everything good looking oh beautiful thing, just really cool. And so that kind of completed the set for Dustin and I and with having seen Cloudberry and Willard Eye on a previous trip. And that had started the set for me. Yeah, there you go. For Montane. So it's kind of a fitting thing. Yeah, what a cool species. So we sat and just stared at that thing, followed it around for a little bit,

trying to get decent shots without disturbing it, that kind of thing. It's illegal to, I mean, it's probably technically illegal to sit and take pictures of it, but we just kind of kept our distance, watched it, you know, that kind of thing. And, you know know it was pretty chill it didn't really try to rattle or strike much um it was pretty easy going and just kind of went about its way and yeah pretty laid back yeah kind of hit a rock crack and so we got some pictures that came out on the rock a little bit and we got some pictures over there too so really a cool snake and pretty well behavedbehaved and pretty cooperative with us.

So that was nice. And then so we're like, we did it. High fives all around. We were very excited. And then we started to hike back down the hillside. And all of a sudden, Steve's like, I got another one. There was a female. I think we had walked.

Steve was behind us. And we had kind of walked past yeah i think i think we kind of spooked it and so it went to it you know it went to um kind of come out of wherever it was hiding yeah and and uh i guess it it you know it buzzed when steve went by which alerted him. Yeah, it was really kind of cool, man. Just like, holy cow, two lifers two minutes apart. Two price. Yeah, just very close to each other. And this was in shed.

It was a larger individual, maybe like as a female,, and deep in shed, had the blue eyes and everything. So it crawled across a rock, let us get some shots of it, but it was kind of not as cooperative as the first one. Yeah, definitely. Definitely in the shed, affecting its demeanor a little, for sure. For sure. And I think we saw another snake in shed as well during the trip. Didn't we? Didn't we see another in shed snake? Anyway, it seemed like they were a little feistier when they were in shed.

But this one rattled at us quite a bit as we were observing. I'm sure all that rain got stuff moving and those snakes ate and it threw them into the shed you know yeah for sure yeah so the monsoon's a good time to get out there yeah so we were pretty uh on a pretty good felt confident and triumphant in our successes uh yeah we we definitely did a lot of looking around that uh that afternoon trying to find price i so to hit yeah to hit two was uh that was pretty gratifying man it was it was an amazing experience to just sit and watch those those snakes so very cool very cool stuff so um and then uh you know we we decided okay we hit our target let's uh yeah let's go move to the next mountain range and try to celebrate.

Let's go celebrate. Yeah. Yeah. We went into town, got a nice meal in celebration, and then went over to Bob's place over the Chiricahua Desert Museum. You'd been there before, right? Oh, yeah. A couple times. A couple times, right? That was been there a couple of times, right?

I, that was my first time. So that was, yeah, that, that's super cool. I mean, I know we had talked and you had kind of, um, you had kind of, you know, described how the museum was and stuff in our conversation, but to kind of be there and see it and, you know, Bob was gracious enough to kind of take us through and show us some of the stuff he keep all his rattlesnakes and you know that was super cool what a what a great i mean collection yeah definitely a fantastic collection and and uh you know bob was really gracious to to take the time to show us around and spend some time with us he obviously was super busy um he had a had a um what was it

like a wolfgang wooster yeah yeah yeah yeah wolfgang was there he had a ton of people and we actually saw him up at the price high spot yeah we sure did we didn't know he's like hey was that you was like yeah that was that you like oh yeah yeah okay yeah it was cool to meet him in person though because i you know i was friends with him on facebook and things like that and probably interacted with him in the past online but yeah it was nice and then we then gordon gordon shoe it was there yeah that guy which was cool awesome super cool what a cool guy man like super knowledgeable just like really friendly and um you know just engages with you just really nice it's cool like and, you know, just engages with you. It's just really nice.

It's just cool. That was fun. You know, and it's like I felt like Bob's place is like where reptile friends meet. You know what I mean? It's just like a place where, you know, people of all kinds meet. It's one of those you have to hit that spot at some point in your life. If you're a reptile fan, you've got to get out to the Chiricahus. You've got to go see Bob's place.

Yeah. And I felt like for that area, you know, Bob like put together a spot where everybody comes, you know, you, you felt, uh, uh, uh, a deeper connection to the reptile community when you were there, just because it's like a place where everybody goes. So yeah, it was a super amazing, super amazing, um, opportunity to go through the museum, pick up some books, you know, spend some time at Bob's place. Uh, it was nice, man. For sure. For sure. That was, that was a really cool spot. And, and, uh, yeah, to just sit and chat with Bob and see his stuff and yeah, it was, it was cool. So, I mean, just the, the knowledge base that he has about just about anything in that area. I mean, the guy knows the area and knows for sure his stuff and, yeah and uh just i mean it's so great just

sitting there listening to his stories and hearing about different localities of rattlesnakes and what they look like in different areas and things he just knows that area like the back of his hand so yep he sure does knowledge he sure does yeah i'm unfortunately i mean i have to go back there in a couple more weeks to pick up my books, darn it. That's fair. That's fair. You're going to try. Yeah, I was going to say, are you going to side project a herp?

Oh, for sure, for sure. I got to get Heidi out there a little bit. I think she's going to go with me. Is she going to go with you? Yeah, I think so. Keep you safe on the long drive? Exactly, yeah. Nice, nice.

We need a little road trip. That'll be fun. For sure. She'll love it. Has she been out there before? No, no. Oh, she'll love it. That'll be great.

Yeah. So then we decided to head over to the Huachuca's. And so we went and cruised a road on the way there and saw a lot of cool stuff. I think the first thing we ran across was a vinegaroon. That was fun to play with and sprayed off Dustin's hands with some vinegar. And we all got to sniff his hands. It smells exactly like vinegar. Oh, yeah.

And it hits your nose, too. Like you're sticking your nose in a bottle of vinegar. Pretty cool. 100%. Yep. Those are cool. And they look like they're formidable, like they they're gonna pinch you or poke you or something but no they're completely harmless and they just kind of spray you with vinegar if you mess with them so vinegar rune and then that

nice uh little beautiful uh gopher snake all kind of kinked up on the road you know they do that little make themselves look like a stick they're all uh yeah weird weirdly positioned so that was cool to see beautiful stuff yeah those gopher snakes down there the pitchy wifas down in uh southern arizona are pretty pretty nice this one was striking repeat this was the one that was striking at us a lot yeah it kept uh bluff striking or hissing at us and stuff. And we ran across, not hit, but came across a juvenile diamondback rattlesnake that was just this gray color with these bright yellow spots along the back with a dark border. Beautiful animal. Really a pretty snake.

Calm. I like the look of that. Yeah. It just kind of chilled and we got it off the road and then yeah not long after that i think there was another um little western diamond back yeah even smaller than that first one yep yep just same same pattern and color they you know beautiful pretty yeah then came i think one of my favorite finds of the trip i agree oh so beautiful i agree montane uh black-tailed rattlesnakes yeah beautiful snakes this one had some nice beautiful black and yellow yep oh yeah that black face mask and

oh cool all the way the coolest yeah i think that might have been one of my favorite finds. I mean, we found some, you know, finding those montanes. Like, that's really cool. And, like, the number we found and, you know, that's a neat thing. And, man, some of those clouds were absolutely beautiful. But, man, that, you know, I don't know. That was hard to beat. Yeah, it was. It was pretty. It was pretty awesome.

And especially like, yeah. And I don't know if it's, you know, those higher elevations that that they they get a little more yellow. But man, the yellow on that thing was just fantastic. It popped in. Yeah. Yeah. So that was that was really cool to see. And and then we came across a moron. Oh, my God, dude.

Yeah. So we were in an area where it was basically a two-lane road that just went back. And the road just got worse and worse. Like it went from a two lane road, road mountain pass. Yeah. Basically one lane. Yeah. And it's one way in one way out kind of, you know, if you had a car, you could turn around, but like a semi driving back in there. And he's like, he's law, he gets lost. And then he tries to turn around in this

like like like this uh it's almost like a switchback but it was like a left turn that went like a jackknife turn right yeah and and i don't know what he was thinking but he swung into it and he got stuck so we helped him get out of that back, back straight. And then, you know, he's trying to figure out how to get this thing turned around. And there's just absolutely no good, like, there's absolutely no good way for him. He was literally either going to back out. There was a parking lot where he could back all the way back to this parking lot and try. It's almost like a roundabout parking lot where you had access both directions but if he tried to back into it and turn around there'd be no way it's just like too tight and so

you know we're like trying to help this dude but at the same time we're like all right man we were finding a lot of cool stuff here and you are a moron and yeah and so as much as i hate to leave somebody maroon uh he ha he did it to himself, the moron maroon himself. Well, and I think he was probably in a position that he could have gotten himself out there if he's a screwdriver. I mean, we, we definitely didn't leave the dude. We went above and beyond. Yeah. But, but I definitely talked to the guy and I'm like, look, man, uh, I really want to help you here, but my reptile friends out here really want to bail and go look for stuff. So, ah, you know, I got to go with the group.

I'm not the driver. You're kind of on your own. And he was cool. He was like, I totally understand. Thanks for helping me. And we're like, yep, good luck, man. Because we were there for probably a good 45 minutes. I mean, as soon as we stopped, I'm like, okay, these guys can kind of help him.

I'm going to go herb this little area. Yeah, Justin was like, all right. And then found another snake. Yeah, and he bailed, and we gave Justin a bunch of crap about it. That's right, that's right. That he was the only one. But to be fair, Dustin and Steve, who gave Justin a bunch of crap, only sat in the car, and was me and justin who actually

helped this guy get his rig all all backed up and straight again so we had a good system as a team system where we had this flashing chuck's flashing light you know the stroke mode and yeah we definitely helped the dude out we did we did our part justin found a snake uh what was that you found it was a hooded night snake. I guess it's an undescribed species, so it doesn't have a species name. Interesting. Yeah, so that was fun to see. Another new species, the hypsiglina, just marked as hypsiglina species.

They're a hooded night snake, but, um, it had the, you know, the, the pattern of the hooded night snake and it was within the range. And so, yeah, that was a new species and something that hasn't been described yet to, uh, to science. So cool to see. Yep. So, so even in, even in our good Samaritan detour, Justin in, in true form found a way to go find a snake. So that, so that was awesome because I feel like, uh, after, uh, after we shoved off from, from, uh, captain trailer disaster, uh, we did not find too much after that, right? It died down quite a bit. We saw one more gopher snake

and a couple toads. Yeah. That was about it, yeah. It was a pretty nicely patterned Colorado River toad. It had some darker spots on really a nice green background. I don't know if you guys were very excited about it, had some darker spots on really a nice green, uh, background. Uh, I don't know if you guys were very excited about it, but I got out and chased it off the road and took some pictures. But, um, then we, uh, went,

we got over into the Wachukas and went to a spot where we found, um, clobberi, the banded rock rattlesnakes before and uh they're right as we were turning to go into this canyon like three vehicles pulled you know turned in front of us and and all went the same way and so all of a sudden we we pull up to the spot and we're like hoping they were going to turn and go into a campground or something no they went right to the spot and unloaded about 20 people and the derp and hurt patrol showed up right before us we're like oh great dude kind of made their way through and and i i so i i guess to be fair i don't know for sure but like there was a

lot of the artificial cover and stuff in that area that was misplaced or, or, uh, and I think we talked to one of Dustin's friends the following day and he said that he had seen it in disarray, uh, a couple of days prior to that. So maybe it wasn't them, but we were kind of like these, you know, these guys getting there right before us and, and kind of leaving the place. Yeah. So we were, we were kind of grumbling about them, but they were probably just fine. You know, I don't know.

Yeah. But they moved through pretty quick and didn't really see anything, but we found a clobber eye, Dustin. Yeah. We mobbed up on a clobber eye and they walked right past it. They didn't even realize we were taking pictures of a snake. They didn't even ask. They just kind of walked past.

No, it was kind of weird. Yeah. Yeah. And so, yeah, we got to see it. So that was a lifer for you. Yep. It was a really nice one, too, really bluish colored and kind of a smaller individual. Not too small, but kind of one of those maybe three, four-year-olds, but beautiful snake.

And so got a couple pictures pictures of him under the, under the wood. And, um, and then we went not too far from there and slept in a little campground area. Um, it got a little cold that night. It did get cold that night.

I had to put on a coat, uh, like, you know, one of those little thin puffy. I, I had to freeze my ass off because I bought, uh, or brought my light sleeping bag and i

you know a typical like chuck move i'm like oh it's it's gonna be so warm there yeah that i'll just pack shorts and i you know t-shirts shorts i'll be fine like not even thinking about you know uh scrub you know uh thorn scrub or uh any of the appropriate you know, uh, scrub, you know, uh, thorn scrub or, uh, any of the appropriate, you know, tall grass. Like, yeah, I mean, it's just like, it was so my legs are super cut up and like, you know, but, but anyway, yeah. So I froze a little bit that night. It wasn't, it wasn't intolerable, but it definitely wasn't comfortable. There was like dew on the, on the, and yeah, our sleeping bags and everything was kind of wet. Yeah, dew sponges.

Yeah. Yeah, and so you brought a nice big tarp and that was just dripping. Yeah, we had to hang that thing. Dry out a bit. So then we went back to the spot where we'd seen the clob the previous night and he was under the same same same spot yep yeah the log next to the one that he was under and so you know we got a couple more pictures of him in the daytime just kind of under his little log area and then uh i flipped a patch nose snake uh eastern patch nose yep so we got to add that species to the count. Pretty little thing.

It was very small, a little juvenile. And it was pretty, a little chilly that morning. But we saw a bunch of centipedes, those big impressive things. Under every piece of cover, there was a centipede. That's right. And the montane rattlesnakes are known to eat the little scolopendra and the little centipede that's right and and you know the montane rattlesnakes are known to eat uh the little scolopendra and little centipedes so i think that's what they are scolopendra that sounds what sounds right doesn't it sure i'll go with that yeah let's let's go with that one i am i am

not an invert man yeah so we got pictures of of those guys then we headed to a different canyon um that was inundated with grasshoppers there were oh my gosh and lovers everywhere yeah there were yeah lovers everywhere just some really colorful like brightly colored uh yeah there is no question in my mind that southern arizona's lizard uh population is doing well because there is enough bugs there to feed an army of lizards. Yeah. You actually got some footage of an earless, elegant earless lizard eating the grass up there. I didn't realize you saw that. It was pretty cool. Yeah. I don't know where you guys were at, but I just, I seen him and I was just like, ah, this is so cool. And yeah, I, I just started filming and it was just chowing away.

And it, it was funny. It does like, you know, it's eating it. It's like looking at me like, what do you do? What are you looking at, dude? Are you coming over here? Are you going to try and grab me? And then it just goes back to eating it. And it's kind of like shoving this grasshopper into the rock to try and get it into its mouth it would kind of look like a you know with that little verandah action to get it to get it down um so it was big meal yeah it was yeah it was a cool it was a cool little uh cool little video and those those things are really cool i i really like those those little lizards so yeah yeah shortly after those yeah yeah but there were a lot of different like variably colored ones.

Mm hmm. Yeah. Grass. Definitely. So shortly after, but it was hard. It made it hard because they moved. And so you'd see the movement of a grasshopper and think,

Oh, is that a lizard or snake? Yeah. Yeah. Well, and it is like, there was so much movement out there that it's just like everywhere, you know,

it's what, but yeah, shortly after getting to the second spot there was a little uh newborn um uh phrynosoma hernanazai a greater shorthorned lizard mountain shorthorned lizard man yeah just a tiny little Steve spotted that one just that they're they're about as cute as it gets just these little chubby you know fat things but yeah um short tails but yeah so that was cool um to see that one and then um we're we're looking uh for more clobberi as well as the uh the um ridge nose rattlesnakes, the Arizona Ridge-nosed willardii, crotalus willardii. Willardii. Or willardii if you're fancy. If you're nipper read.

Yeah. So we told, because Dustin says willardii as well, so we told him he could say willardii only if he did it in a nice British accent. Yes, that's correct. That was good fun. Good fun with Dustin. Yeah. But we, so we were leaving the first spot where we saw the club and Dustin's friend rolled up, Bryce. So that was cool to meet him.

Nice guy. Like really pretty chill. Good herper. He's definitely into it. Yeah, for sure. And so, uh, and cause like right when he pulled up, uh, Dustin's like, Oh man, whoever that is, don't tell him about the clobber. I like, well, it's not, you know, let's get out of here or whatever. And then he's like, and then I hear him telling him about the clobber. I'm like, Oh, it must be his buddy.

And so, yeah, we, uh, showed him where the clobber I was and he, he took pictures of that and, yeah, we showed him where the claw briar was and he took pictures of that or checked it out, whatever. And then so the second spot, all of a sudden we hear Bryce calling to us. He's like, hey, you guys want to see something? So we went over to check out what he had and he had a willardii. A willardii. That he'd found on a – oh, that was the other snake snake that was the other one that was in shed nice yeah that's it came to me right yeah nice that one was in shed too and it was just kind of sitting out on you know in a patch of sunlight or whatever on by the rocks and and uh kind of soaking it in

but so we got some pictures of that one and a couple videos and stuff it was it was fairly good size but um that unfortunately was in shed because they're really nice looking but that kind of completed the set for the trip we got to see all three montane rattlesnakes got to see it doesn't count i don't know if that counted yeah i mean we didn't find it ourselves you kind of yeah it was. It was a team effort. I mean, her trips are always a team effort. I'll take seeing it on a technicality. Yeah, I mean, it's better than a zoo tick, right?

Yes, that's right. It's not a fill find. I'm looking for it in Bob's. A fill find. Oh, poor Phil. Oh, poor Phil. He was just really excited to see that desert iguana at Bob's place. And he's like, I'm counting it.

We're like, no, you're not. This is not even its range dude it's pretty funny so we've kind of um phil find yeah lovingly called it a phil find in honor of our good friend phil every every it is always done in in uh in in endearing love yes those, man, those ridge noses are just cool snakes. They're so beautiful. I love that face pattern on those things. And, and, you know, they have that kind of thinner banded pattern, you know, cool stuff. So on our way out, Steve found a, another clob. Yeah.

Really nice kind of had some really thin black bands, mostly kind of some speckles and stuff. That was another situation where we had kind of walked through, and Steve and his, you know, Steve's handle is Mindful Herb. So, you know, I feel steve moves slow and moves deliberately and and we you know we kind of went through there and and uh of course you know we moved that thing it was like whoa people i'm out you know and yeah and steve cp did out there to find it yep scooped it scooped it uh we got to get some great pictures of it so yeah yeah moved across this rock face that was yeah perfect

spot for it and kind of yeah yeah i mean it was right where it should be yep and then we decided hey man we're knocking it out of the park we're finding everything let's go let's go give ourselves a challenge and so we headed down to look for um vine snakes vine snakes yep yeah dustin was like listen these guys our luck is good we're gonna go for the jugular go for the gold yeah so we went down kind of on the border mexico uh down south of tucson and to look to look for vine snakes and um one of the first stops was kind of a spot that dustin had seen before and it was where you could see the Chihuahuan leopard frog. Was it Chihuahuan? Yeah, Chihuahuan leopard frog.

I think that's right. Which is a vulnerable or endangered species. It has a very restricted range. It's not doing great in the wild, but we were lucky to see several of them and and actually rescue a few that had fallen into a kind of a pit area and they and there were a few that there that were dead i'm surprised they haven't done something about that to keep these uh poor frogs from dying i know that danger anyway and so we we got two that weren't dead and put them back into the pond area so and that poor pond i mean that pond is

like right adjacent to that thing so if those things jump into there they're just not getting out so that sucked yeah that's kind of lame but yeah um so we so we were down on you know kind of on the border cruising around looking for stuff interestingly we saw some uh pretty cool uh there were canyon tree frogs out kind of the middle the middle of the day, in the heat of the day, sitting on rocks and stuff. What tough little amphibians, man. Those are some of my favorites. It really brings me back to my childhood, seeing those in Zion National Park and stuff down in southern Utah. And just watching them bask in the sun and change into all these colors, golds and silvers and bronze colors as they sit out in the sun and bake.

But that's where we saw those elegant earless lizards, which is another new species for me. I hadn't seen those before, so it's always cool to get a new tick. And then Steve flipped a massive uh centipede it was huge probably eight inches long i mean this thing was 20 feet long it was 20 feet long that was that was the best steve told us about he was down in that area herping and and he ran across a couple border agents and one of them said yeah there was a did you see that video of that 20 foot long centipede and steve's like 20 feet is like that's ridiculously long

the border agents buddy was like laughing at him and he's like well i mean 20 you know 20 inches long. And we're like, dude, do you know how long a 20-inch long centipede is? 20-foot centipede. Poor guy could not get out of his own way. So, yeah, that was, I mean, it's an impressive insect, man. It kind of gave me a little bit of a jump there, crawling close to my feet or whatever. But what a cool, impressive little little bug but there were a lot of cool bugs in that game again a ton of grasshoppers there's these jet black grasshoppers there were some grasshoppers that were red and blue like brightly colored and um we saw a couple mantids

uh some praying mantis some some native mantises that were kind of brown, really cryptically colored and stuff. Saw some cool spiders, some orb weavers. All those jumping spiders. Yeah, right. Freaking cool. Like bright red and with black and red. They're very contrasty. Yeah.

Yeah, it was pretty cool. A lot of butterflies. All those butterflies that were in there. Yeah, yeah. The katydids that were as deafening as I've ever heard. Oh, cicadas, yeah. Or cicadas. What did I say? Katydids.

Yeah, cicadas. Yeah. That was crazy. Nicely patterned, juvenile. I think it was a spiny lizard, like a Clark spiny. Really pretty down there. We hiked up a canyon back we were looking for some mud turtles but didn't have any luck finding those even though we kind of reached went up to the elbows for them but yeah that was pretty cool um i there was a really nice

looking butterfly that had kind of black wings, but then blue at the bottom. That was neat looking. We actually ran into an entomologist after we got out of the canyon and chatted with her for a bit. Showed her some of the pictures. She was jealous of the stuff we found. Yeah, I do. How did you see that? And we're like, well, I don't know. We were just looking around.

We proceeded to make fun of her as like the worst entomologist ever because it's like she's like – Not to her face. No, not to her face. But like, you know, she's like, well, how did you find that? I'm like, well, we were just flipping rocks. She's like, flipping rocks, huh? I'm like, yeah. I mean, like, what do you think?

I mean, what the heck? Yeah. You're out here looking for bugs and you're not looking under rocks or like looking – mean like what do you kind of kind of entomologists are you so yeah so we had we had some fun at her expense uh yeah she was pretty cool though she was cool no she was cool and super folks worked so we we had come to the conclusion that uh she was she was a a new entomologist because of her enthusiasm. So none of her other cohorts were very enthused about any of it. Well, they were botanists. We weren't talking about plants. We don't know jack about plants.

So most of them were botanists. There was another herb guy there. We, you, I know some things about plants. Like, calm down. Oh, that's right. Maybe not that guy's level. That guy gave us the natural history. We asked one question, and he was like, he went off.

It went way over my head. I'm like, I just want to know the name of it. Calm down. I just want to know what that butterfly is called. Yeah, yeah. Relax, dude. I don't want its life history. I have so much information in my head about reptiles.

We chatted with them for a while. What were they for the Sonoran museum yeah yeah right they were uh so we we took off from there um got back in the car started cruising right at dusk and um man not long after dustin's like stop and so my god steve was responsive hit the brakes and dustin got out of the car, and he's like, you were inches away from running over the snake. There was a nice eastern patch, and I was on the snake. Beautiful animal. Just these almost a bright orange belly and really peachy colored. If that had been some of your other herb drivers, they may have ran that over.

That's right. So, yeah, that was a close call for that guy so yeah he was he was happy and squeezed all over dustin and yeah god damn that thing stunk too and it would not hold still yeah and then we hear the the entomologist coming and you know she yeah there's this like dragon, drag. I'm like, are you dragging something? Like, is there something stuck under your car? She looks under there. Do you not hear that giant dragging noise? Yeah.

No, no. What do you think that is, lady? And her whole wheel well, like, her wheel well guard had come loose and was, like, dragging under the car. Yeah. So luckily she had, like, some ramps, and she drove up on the ramps and they got it loose. Got it off. Yeah. At least we could kind of get a little bit ahead of them. So, you know, we weren't having to worry about them hitting the snake or something. We were definitely trying to stay paced so that nobody moving in and out of where we were would run over anything that we were trying to road cruise.

Yeah. that we were trying to road cruise yeah so and then not long after that we found um another snake on the road this beautiful uh garter snake a black yeah dude oh my gosh it was so amazing like yeah just like army green with white sides like its belly was i think i think people think like garter snake and they just under appreciatereciate how awesome those things can be. But yeah, wow. Kind of a bluish colored head. Yeah. Blue gray.

Yeah, just nuts, man. And those bright neck spots where it gets its name and behaved nicely. It sat and posed for pictures. I do think it squeezed on Dustin. No, it definitely squeezed on Dustin. His hands were smelling pretty good after those two but uh you know dustin is a man who is not afraid to get squeezed on so he'll take a squeeze for the love of the game for sure so and then um i think we got back in the car and i left my red

bowl on top of the roof and uh that's right all this all this liquid starts draining down the car and i left my red bull on top of the roof and uh that's right all this all this liquid starts draining down the car you hear this like rumbling out of the car oh no stop stop the car my peach red bull so i went and grabbed my red bull and you had a couple red bull incidences you when we were cruising the previous night you had one like just open or had a leak or something no i had i had leaked all over your chair in the seat next to me and all of a sudden there's like i started feeling like wetness i'm like what is this and it's there was something like a hole got in this red bull and it was like leaking on the seat i'm like what is happening here we can't have nice things oh my god apparently i'm careful if you're bringing chuck in your vehicle

i am the reason of not nice things he'll either open a red bull in your car or he'll spill on the roof so yeah so i managed to spill a red bull in the inside of steve's car and then the following day i managed to spill a red bull all over the outside of steve's car so i was batting a thousand at spilling red bulls all over the the rav uh the rav hurt mobile but you know consistency is the key when you're herping so i gotta keep it interesting you know that's correct that's correct so and i did yeah and i did so um yeah so so we continued on yeah It was tough. And I did. Yeah. And I did. So, yeah. So we continued on. Yeah. And then the next find was a little disheartening.

It was this beautiful black-tailed rattlesnake. Again, another milosis. Oh, yeah. And it had been hit, clipped by a car. It was on this side road where there was no reason they should have hit it. It was a big snake, too. I mean, bright yellow. Like, it had to have been on purpose so yeah um steve kind of took one for the team and put it out of its misery which you know was uh rough to do for sure yeah not not the easiest thing to do but probably that's

the worst about road cruising is seeing things hit on the road for sure. So we did another pass kind of back the way we'd come, and we stopped. Steve had the, you know, nature was calling, and Steve went out on kind of a rock outcrop to do his business and then flipped a rock and found a new species for us the yaki yaki oh yeah black headed snake yeah yeah yeah um so another new species of course tantilla don't hold still very well but tantilla don't hold still they are for sure snakes but yeah yeah really cool um little tantilla i mean they all kind of basically look the same. They have a black head, kind of a tannish brown body. But this one had kind of white along its mouth. And then a little bit of a faint band, lighter band behind the black head.

So kind of a cool looking little guy. He actually held still for me while I got some good pictures of him you got pictures of him on the ground on the rock yeah no shit yeah it looks i thought that was i thought that was a hand model snake only yeah that's what i was thinking too but i thought i'll give it a try i didn't he just sat there i got like five or six good shots and then i kind of chased him away and he went his way so the pied piper of julander there you go and then we got to just just have a visual feast i mean the clouds and the sunset oh my gosh we had steve stop and we just sat and took pictures i mean the weirdest clouds i've ever

seen i think there's these weird blotchy little blotchyy. Yeah. And when the sun starts to set and the oranges and the reds come in, it's just absolutely just insane. I think we did a fairly good job of capturing some of those pictures. I think so, yeah. Just unique cloud formations there. Yeah. And catching that light, it was pretty cool. And a beautiful sunset

Some great Some great oranges Hitting off the rocks You know Some of those rock formations That just You know Some of that stuff

Like we were You know You were talking Saying that some of that is Some of those rock formations Rival Australia You know Yeah

Yeah Or looked similar To like the Kimberley Or something Kind of like the Kimberley Yeah But yeah Yeah, kind of like the Kimberley, yeah. Not that I've been there, but yeah, a really cool area. Yeah, but you've seen it in pictures. Yeah, exactly.

You will be there. I will be there someday. You will be there. Yeah, hopefully Chuck right, you know, with me there. That will be your 50th birthday. Maybe 51st birthday. Yeah, maybe 51st, right? 50 if it's gonna be down south and down south yeah south australia hold down under hold south america away um all right so then we

headed towards the east side of the huachucas um were they with the huachucas no santa rita's yeah i think that might be right. I don't know. There's a lot of different mountain ranges down there. So I need to get to know them a little better by name. So we went to a road that I actually stayed on the first trip in October. Kind of slept out there on my own until the guys flew in. So I picked them up from the airport. But that's where I spent the night. And I went road cruising looking for stuff. So we went back so i'm like oh yeah i remember this place

and and uh we cruised up there and um waiting for us and this was when we were uh recording the podcast which you've probably heard and uh there was a little nice little uh western diamond back uh crudless eight trucks waiting for us and got a few pictures he had that nice vibrant pattern and everything really cool looking thing and then we went and decided to walk a wash and and uh like right we were looking for a tiger yeah we were really wanting to see a tiger snake it was a good spot for him but uh yeah yeah we didn't get lucky to to see the tiger um other than that relocation of the first of the trip that Dustin and I.

And we did not, you know, we cruised that. It was just not much moving. No, there was a tiny little banded gecko, baby. That was cool. A little fresh hatchie. Brightly banded. I mean, just really cool. Dustin's body was just a tiny little thing, you know,

about the size of your fingernail or something. But, um, chat checked him out, looked at some, you know, spiders, scorpions and stuff, but that was pretty much it. So we set up camp, we were all a bit tired, you know, and, uh, again, the cloud cover was really cool over the moon kind of these blotchy you know puzzly cloud formations over the bright uh you know full moon we did a few passes on the road and we were pretty out of it we were pretty beat yeah i was pretty wiped out i think by this time i'm like the first night there i didn't sleep that great i shoot i was passing out by the by that night yeah so we got up in the morning and and dustin was a little anxious he's like we got to get out we got oh my gosh yeah he was he was ready

yeah pretty excited yeah and i think so our plan was to get up before the sun came up and and uh try to cruise for green green rats so yeah it's a good spot for those and that was kind of the intel that he had the they're active in the morning. So he got up and drove about 50 feet. And he's like, stop, there's a snake. And we get out. And he's like, yes. Oh, my gosh.

He was so pumped. Doing that. I was so happy for him. Yeah. That was the best part of it is just watching his excitement and being so happy to see that. I mean, and just the, like, we literally drilled that first thing in the morning. Like, I mean, it couldn't have been, like, more like we did not go far at all. And then, bam, green rat right in the road.

Like, perfect. So, yeah, that was super cool. I mean, we all had permits or collection licenses. And so he has one year-round kind of thing. But he collected the green rat just to take it home and get some good pictures. And then he went to release it today, this morning. And on his way after releasing it, he found another green rat just right in that same area yeah it's a bigger one big adult one so pretty cool for him to be able to see not one but two uh green rats uh

within short distance of each other so yeah it was interesting too because um we picked it up and kind of held it passed around take taking a look at you know look at it and it didn't try to strike it was pretty chill no big deal then we set it down on the rocks for pictures and all of a sudden it started striking and biting and like it was really funny then you pick it up again and it's fine it's not trying to bite but as soon as you set it down it's biting and striking like but it's kind of a younger yeah younger individual you could see some of the juvenile pattern kind of poking through that was really cool i really like that you could kind of see the the you know the transition of the snake at its age and where it was where it's going so kind of cool yeah it was beautiful animal

really a pretty snake i'm not much for rat snakes but this one about changed my mind on i like green rat snakes they They're pretty cool looking. Yeah. And there's just something about finding something, especially something that's not super easy to find out in the wild. And you're just like, okay, I don't, you know, I'm not into that, but man, finding that and, and it just makes you really appreciate it. Yeah, exactly. And especially when you're like, Oh wow, this is the, you know, I mean, those things come from thorn scrub. And, you know, where we were, like, you could clearly see that, you know, they're hard to find because, gosh, nobody's going into that thorn scrub to go get them.

Like, oh, my God. Like, you would come up a cut up mess if you tried to go in there. Yeah, tough little buggers. But what a fun find. That was a great way to start off the day. That was, yeah. So, yeah, we sat and checked him out and got some pictures and stuff. And then it was time for you guys to take off,

so we headed over to Dustinin's house and got you guys all got all our stuff unloaded and got you guys loaded up and then um dustin and i decided to go back and give it another shot for the vine snakes and came up with nothing but we stared at a lot of trees looking for those yeah that's that's tough man i mean it's it's another that's another snake that's uh in thorn scrub and it's you know hard hard to find uh very very cryptic very hard to see in their in their natural environment but you know if you know what you're you're not gonna find them if you don't go looking yeah for sure that's a guarantee so we thought well let's give it a shot.

It's such a great weekend. But hey, that Green Rat was kind of the grand finale, and that's just fine. Yeah, that was a good way to end it for us at least. So you guys had the long drive. I had a little bit of a short flight and left later that afternoon. We hit some weather. We hit some weather on the way back that crazy i mean it was like yeah it was like rain and thunder and there was some hail and

thankfully the water washed all the red bull off of steve's car um so yeah he refuses to wash that car because he has a dirt parking lot at work yes Yes. Yes. No, literally. So, so when he dropped me off, so you know how like all that, all that, uh, that, that kind of dirt accumulated on his back, on the,

the back of his car, like his back window and stuff. He literally dropped me off after we had drove through that monsoon douching of a, of a rainstorm. And there was still dirt stuck to the back of that car. I'm like, Oh my goodness. So that was cool.

Hardened with Red Bull. For sure. Yeah, that apparently is quite a tenacious combination. But yeah, I said goodbye to Steve and sent him on his way. Yeah, I chatted with him while i was driving from the airport back home and we sat and talked while we both drove and that probably helped us both stay awake pretty well yeah and we all got home safely and i mean what an epic trip i epic yeah definitely and i mean it was only four days it seemed to go by in just like a blur like a blink of an eye it was over so i mean you know

it's a good trip when when it feels like it you know and it was so short you know yeah just kind of went by so fast so yeah great times but yeah i'm glad we could uh share that experience and have have just a great time out there with steve and dustin and yeah can't wait for the next trip i'm already like i'm already obsessed with vine snakes. And yeah, I mean, you know, there's something to be I mean, don't get me wrong. I stank. I stank like the ass end of a horse by the time I got back home. And, you know, it's it's definitely we definitely roughed it.

And, you know, but there's, you know, there's something. Yeah, there is something to be said for, you know, it's super convenient when, you know there's something yeah there is something to be said for you know it's super convenient when you you know you herp and you're just herping and you're like all right i'm tired like all right let's find a place to sleep and you just pull over and you set up your stuff and you sleep and yeah you get up the next day you brush your teeth you put on some change of clothes or whatever and just back in the car and you're on your way again. Give yourself a thorough wipe down with a baby wipe or something. Yep. Get going again.

I did have those melon cucumber baby wipes that were nice and clutch for sure. And I don't think I offended the guy next to me on the plane. I kind of apologized in advance, but he's like, you're fine now. It's my thing. in advance but he's like i mean you're fine now yeah so so yeah so i mean it definitely i you know i definitely i definitely see that uh that style of herping has a such a uh you know convenience and great place that allows you to get out there and really maximize your you know maximize your time and and uh you know it's just a different experience, I think. Well, I mean, it is uncomfortable unless you're smart like you and bring like an inflatable, you know, mattress. That was a smart move.

That was a good one. My mind said yes, but my back said no. So, you know, I kind of had it. My Therm-a-Rest didn't do bad. No, it's one of the the other brands i can't remember climate or something but yeah it was it was okay i was pretty comfortable i didn't but steve i think steve had some yeah steve's back was acting up yeah yeah i mean i felt bad anytime you're sleeping on the ground but it was nice to get

back to my bed i mean and that's the thing if you don't if you don't have times on the ground you don't appreciate you don't appreciate your bed that's the thing. If you don't, if you don't have times on the ground, you don't appreciate it. You don't appreciate your bed. That's correct. That's correct. And Dustin made the comment, like I have camping buddies that don't like to herp and I have herping buddies that don't like to camp. So this was the first herp trip that I've camped. So I got to mix both worlds of camping and herping. It was glorious. Yeah yeah i think i think i'm uh i'm gonna be visiting that area you know quite a bit i'm gonna invite myself when you do there you go there you go let's make it happen and we got to get down to your neck of the woods again yeah i i mean that'd be fun i'm certainly down to to you can jump we can jump off from my place if you guys want to leave your car and take the truck out there and go for a weekend of wild herping out in the Anza.

I'm down to drive up to the Ocotillo and get windblown at Alan's place. Yeah, do all that. All right, man. Well, we kind of cheated on this one. We didn't fight much. No. Steve hates turtles. Steve hates turtles. Steve hates turtles.

No, you're supposed to fight and say, no, Steve loves turtles. Okay. No, I think Steve hates turtles. Steve can come on here and tell us why he doesn't hate turtles. There you go. He's got to defend himself. That's right. Cool, man.

Well, it was a great trip. I'm excited for the next one already, but that was one for the books. That was an epic one. Definitely. I think we got a total of, I think it was 34 was our herp count, species count, amphibians, reptiles. Was it 34 or 38? I think it was somewhere around there. I thought it was 34, but maybe more.

So, yeah, great trip. Well, when I brag about it i add more apparently because i think i was saying 38 each day that you've been back from the trip you had 76 species it was insane yeah i mean it pales in comparison to some people's trips where they find like 400 snakes or something but yeah it was a great trip and i can't wait to get back out there so no for sure well hopefully you guys enjoyed this even though we didn't fight much uh it was uh fun i don't know i like hearing about herb trips so hopefully you do too but thanks for listening and we'll catch you next week for another episode of reptile fight club get out there and hurt it's

the shit. Thank you. Outro Music