Retronauts - 543: Nintendo Power Comics

Episode Date: July 3, 2023

We tackle the finest form of pop culture hybridization: Video game comics that showed up in Nintendo Power! Nadia, Anthony John Agnello, and Peter Malamud Smith talk about Star Fox, Super Metroid, Zelda: A Link to the Past, and Super Mario Adventures. Retronauts is made possible by listener support through Patreon! Support the show to enjoy ad-free early access, better audio quality, and great exclusive content. Learn more at http://www.patreon.com/retronauts

This week on Retronauts, heroes, foxy bounty hunters, and literal foxes. video game comics that smell of dust and ink. It's the good stuff. I'm your host for this week, Nadia Oxford. With me is my chronic problem. Anthony John Agnello, say hi. I like that I am a persistent condition in your podcasting world, Nadia. Like, it's like when you've had something like removed via electrolysis and yet it keeps coming back. I have, I have melasma and I have you. This is, this is the role I can fulfill. And I have a very welcome I was going to say newcomer, Peter Smith, have you been on retronauts before? You said we're doing a Mega Man thing together, and I totally blanked out.

I'm sorry. I have never been on Retronauts before, as far as I can remember. Oh, hi. Hi. It's great to see you both and hear both of your voices. It is. We used to all work together. Like, you all know about my sorted history with Anthony John Ainello, but Peter Smith, yeah, all 61 frames per second.

God bless. Yeah. That our old hippie dream of video game journalists. Our commune. Yeah, I do like that like every now and again, we could be like, yeah, we used to run a video game journalism Ashram. That's what we used to do. Everybody pulled their sorghum harvest and then wrote about the Mother Three localization in a long, long ago. We sure did.

A really good time. Peter, do you want to tell us anything else about yourself, like what you're doing these days? Sure. I am now, after years as a hobbyist, I'm now a full-time developer for Studio. MDHR, the anchors of Cuphead. Oh, Cuphead. So are you in the Toronto area? No, it's all over a moment. Oh, okay.

I'm in New York. I was going to say close enough, but I once actually went to New York and I was behind a woman on the train who said, yeah, I go to Toronto to relax. So that's how you know you're from New York. So if you enjoy this podcast, please keep in mind there's a lot more on Retronauts.com. Please do support our Patreon. If you want to keep hearing us talk about all those cool video game shit in Toronto shutouts and, you know, other stuff that's favored by people with sore bones. Yeah, so I think our URL is patreon.com for us slash retronauts.

Yes, that's it. I have to remember Sony Patreon links these days. So today's topic, we're talking about video game comics this week, specifically three serialized Nintendo Power Comics, which are the Legend of Zelda, Star Fox, and Metroid. There are others, and we'll certainly dip into those, especially at Peer's request. but, you know, three is a good number. Try force. You can't open the door. Try force.

I brought props for the other ones, too, not yet. My next question was, do you gentlemen have history with these comics and please tell me about it? So I think all the people listening to this with the, I feel like Retronauts has a crop of people that do consider things like the Xbox 360, a retro console at this point. I know that that's part of the contingent listening. Yeah. All three of us were the Nintendo Power Generation. We were there for the transition from Nintendo Fun Club to bona fide Nintendo Power. And rather than internalizing the idea that we were just like being handed a book of commercials every single month, these were religious texts.

These were holy tomes being handed down. And we're like, holy shit, I can learn about Zelda and have a chance. to be in the Wayne's World video game, I'm going to enter this contest twice. When they started doing the comics, and I know that Nestor is not on the table, it felt like one more facet of this, like, hidden history and definitive statement

about these objects that you were only glimpsing a part of. Like, I remember so vividly when the Zelda comic, in particular started and I had just turned 10 years old I assumed oh surely this is like all comics and this is just the link to the past version

so there are all the surely all these other Zelda comics that I've just never seen or had access to and I'm just getting this slightest glimpse into a bigger world and I say it as like a joke

but I did treat that Zelda comic with almost religious fervor. It was just every single panel was so evocative and big. It's so big. And rereading it ahead of this show, I know we'll get to it, but yeah. Yeah. I was shocked at how it still feels that way in a lot of ways. Zelda in particular, I would certainly get to this was by a legendary Japanese artist.

Shotara Ishin Mori, is that the name? Basically, if you've ever liked an episode of Power Rangers, this is a man you think. He is like the father of Sentai, just incredible manga artist. It's actually stunning that Nintendo got him to do a comic. But what particularly grabbed you about the Nintendo Zelda comic? Was it just how...

Like every single piece of it. And I actually wrote about this for the AV Club a few years ago in the before times when the AV Club wasn't just like a zombie sort of trudging across the... Yeah, I love the... Avey Club. I'd miss it so much. I long for those days. But I loved the way that it truly, in the exact same way that the first three Zelda games do, it just implies this whole world surrounding everything else you see. Like, it truly feels like this is a fun. You see maybe total. Do you see 10 full characters across this comic? Like, are there 10 individuals, maybe a dozen? And,

Yet every single one of them feels like they live in a place where they have a daily life, they do things, they go about their business, and that's always counterpointed with an image like Link wearing, you know, mythical wings and sailing over sand dunes that go for as far as the eye can see. That sort of counterpoint of a lived in world with just something that dwarfs the individual just was so captivating and still is so captivating. And, like, Star Fox, it's so funny, I think all, Star Fox was the only other of these comics that we're talking about today that I read at the time. I missed the, the Metroid ones entirely. And, like, some of the other things that, like, were on the periphery of the Nintendo Power Comics world, like F0, they always captured that same vibe. They always captured the vibe of there's, there's a world beyond what you're experiencing. And I wasn't old enough to have internalized the idea. of like faded hero whose father figure has vanished or disappeared.

It was a trope, you know, like Fox McLeod all of a sudden encountering his dad again. I was like, holy boy, shit. This is, dad. There is he lived. We wear sunglasses. That's what you know he's screwed at it. Like, you know, felt enormous. Everyone's trope is like, that it sees that their first, you know what I mean?

Everyone has their first trope. So that's, that's absolutely certain. What about you, Peter? Same as you guys. I read all of these as they came out, which meant I was, I'm sure, exactly the right age to read them. And having revisited all of them, or what I think of as the four big ones, Mario, Zelda, Star Fox, and Metroid this weekend to get ready to talk to you guys. I have opinions about each of them. But I was there. I was there. Yeah, I mean, I'll corroborate what Anthony. says that they illuminated a larger world of these games, which maybe was just sort of resonating with a frequency that we were already detecting when playing them. But not to spoil anything, but I felt a little trepidation about revisiting the Zelda comic in particular. I bought myself

a copy of it, you know, 10 years ago, but I hadn't really dared to crack it open because I was like, it had meant so much to me when I was 10. And I was like, How good could it really be? You know, when you revisit something that you love when you were 10 after 30 years, it's a bit of a coin flip. And boy, I am really excited about it. I'm really excited to talk about it. I was really taken with it.

I think it's just an amazing piece of work. And, you know, I also have thoughts about the other ones. You know, Speaking of the other one, so am I the only one who's like read or remembers Metroid? Did you say you had read it, Peter? I reread it this weekend and I read it at the time. Okay, okay, yeah. I figured that might be a good one to start with because it's such a, well, it's been the shortest one.

And we have talked about how these comics expanded the world. I think maybe Metroid was a little bit, failed a little bit on that one because I feel like it was rushed or stopped suddenly. And I couldn't find any information about why it felt like that, why it was truncated. But either way, everything kind of ended on a just bang, so to speak. But to kind of set the stage about the Metroid comic that was written and illustrated by Ben Amaro Itto, who also did the Star Fox comic, which we'll talk about. He's an illustrator, he's a musician, and he works for Hal. And apparently he wears leopard print a lot, which is something I like very much about him already. and I included a picture in the notes.

I don't know if you gentlemen saw it, but he's holding like, like, it's a two-necked ukulele. I don't know what the hell I'm looking at, but I just know this man is wearing leopard printage is extremely tickable about it. So I have to say his artwork is superb. Like, looking back on it,

I see so much detail and so much love. Weird color choices sometimes. I still don't know what's up with Samus's purple hair, especially since they made Samus, specifically according to Nintendo Powers, There's editor-in-chief at the time, Gayle Tilden. They weren't sure how to make Samma's look because we had never really seen her. We saw her pixel-y face.

But if you want an idea of what happens when an artist goes straight from pixels to illustrating, you go back and look at Mega Man on Nintendo, sorry, on Captain N. And that's exactly why Mega Man looks like a squat two-foot smoker who's green. Because literally the guy's color was apparently going out. I don't know if I was sure or not, but it's actually the funniest thing I've ever heard. not the problem with these comics are illustrated gorgeously. Again, Samus has the purple

hair. I don't know why, but I also wrote in the comments that Samus was supposed to be a combination between Ripley and Princess Leia, and that's actually very suitable because Samus is, quote unquote, six foot 20 fucking killing for fun. So you'll find a lot of fans

of this depiction of Samus, the big Amazon musly, snoo, snoo Samis. I have to agree. I'm not hating on zero suit, Samus, but I remember reading these comics and being like, holy shit, a woman can be huge and musley because I think that's actually really cool.

And it made sense to me. She's kind of living in this power suit. She has three biological fathers and two of them are birds. So she's just like, she's different. And she actually looked really strong and cool through most of the comic. What did you guys think of the comic besides the, well, including just the shut door ending there?

Nadia, to continue your referential train of thought, I do like that this Samus is like, I heard that Samus has like 30 goddamn dicks. She's got like 40 dicks and dicks growing out of her dicks. Like I do love that this is just Samus murdering everything. And I love the airbrushed like heavy metal van. There is, there is, like this and the Starfax comic have a video games media. a Dio album cover vibe that I appreciate a lot.

And it's not, it is in no way shape or form like sort of soulful in the way that the Zelda comic inexplicably is. I didn't read this until the early, early aughts. I didn't read this until I was out of college and wasting way too much time on the internet and finding all the weird corners and read it back to back with the manga that Sakamoto himself had worked on and so I thought that they went together like I interpreted this was like oh the like this is issue one and then this is issue two and I was like wow there's it was really hard cut from just like beefcake Samis murdering slime balls

to her parents dying I was like that's an odd hard cut uh it's cool this is actually like This Metroid comic set some of Samus as canon very quickly, very generally, like, yes, she was an orphan on planet KL 5, something like that. It was a mining colony, got blown up by the space pirates. She was found and raised by the Chazzo. She received their DNA and she got their training. And then she became a sui girl. And yes, I know exactly the comic. Sorry, the manga you're referring to, Anthony.

Don't I sound like a wee, but the manga. Sorry, I'm not the comic. I know the exact one you're referring to And yeah, that was Certainly carried on that canon And I kind of deepened it And again, it was very interesting And again, I tried to look up information

Like the West kind of meeting the East tier It feels like they're building off each other In a relationship that was very rare at the time And I find that very fascinating And it's a shame I can't find a little bit more about it But yes, the comic, actually the manga Again, that you're talking about Anthony I also find extremely interesting

going off topic for half a second because it has the breakdown of Samus. She has a terrible PTSD episode because she sees Ripley. She's like, holy shit, this is the thing that killed my parents. And they kind of tried to mimic that in OtherM. And it was just like disastrously bad. So to this day, I understand what they were going for with OtherM, but dear God in heaven, they did not nail it. Peter, do you have any-28-year-old man?

Oh, sorry, sorry. No, no, like, tell me of the 28-year-old man. 28 year old man playing other M and I was well actuallying people and be like this is in line with the appropriate depiction of the character at the time in her life. And much to Pete chagrin at the time

being like, no, no talking in Metroid. That was the No talking in Metroid. Yeah, well, actually, that's a great segue because I think that points to one of the problems with this comic innately. And so I had no particular feelings about this as I revisited it. I remembered vaguely as a kid not being as taken with it but not hating it or anything. And revisiting, I have to say, it's spectacular in some ways.

I mean, you guys are right. The art is really pretty special in its own way. And there are a few two-page spreads that are just really plain boy. And his use of color, like, you said, sort of borders on the psychedelic. It's extremely saturated and vivid. And I also think that the comic starts very strong. And I think the characterization of Samus is really good,

significantly better than a lot of the more canonical versions. And I think, obviously, going to Ripley is a good place to start. It's a good place to start anything that you're doing, making lunch. But I did think, in contrast to the other comics, that we're going to talk about, which we all agree sort of gave you a sense of a more expansive world. If anything, I feel like this comic condensed or compressed or diminished the world of Metroid by the end of it.

Yeah. And made me think, this is kind of, you know, like a bunch of cheesy crap. Ripley takes off. He just turns his tail and runs. There's no fight. That's the best part. Also, sorry, minor interjection with some Samus trivia that came up in my head. She was initially based on Kim Basinger, according to Sakamoto.

So anytime I see Last Dance of Mary Jane, she's in that as the dead body. So I think I inextricably have like Samus and a dead body linked in my head, surrounded by candles. And you know what, 93 was the best, best year for music videos. There's a retronauts episode for you. Sorry, Peter, go ahead. Yeah, but no, Nadita, that's what happens. At the end, Tom Petty picks up a razor out of that water and then laser is her in. in the power suit.

That's the extended. Oh, my God. That's what happens after if you do the power bomb sacrifice thing. And V's by Sakamoto, do not steal. Yeah, well, you know, on the subject of quiet, silent Metroid is the best Metroid, I think that a lot of the experience of playing Metroid and a lot of the character of Metroid is about solitude. And that doesn't necessarily translate to storytelling in a different medium or a different format where it's hard to pull off like a silent movie feel and a solitary thing. And you want characters to have things to bounce off of.

And, you know, I think we're going to touch on this. The characters that Samus bounces off of this comic suck really bad and just seems so absurd and completely take you out of this contemplative space. Especially what's his name, Houston. I don't know if you remember, you guys, in Brinster in Super Metroid. You see kind of a dead body being eaten by Space Buds, bugs. I still say that's Houston. Yeah, there's another bounce. Just to contextualize this, there's another bounty hunter named Houston, which is fucking hilarious to me.

If I think about the captain from alien is named Dallas. Oh, shit. Oh, shit. They're like, here's my buddy, Commander El Paso. It's like the joke in Star Fox. I'm going to jump ahead very quickly where the here's a letter from Sergeant from General Pepper. I thought he was a sergeant. That works a lot better in Starbucks.

It does. They're kind of doing that kind of thing in Metro. and yeah that character sucks there's like a lot of time given to two galactic bureaucrats who are super cartoony that part sucks yeah yeah it's it kind of it defies a purpose of what i'm not saying sam it has been solitude absolutely not like i actually think metro dread when she speaks chozo to the her mentor like that's really fucking cool i like that kind of solitude like i think dread really nailed it but that's a very very hard thing to get as you say on a comic but dear God, just the kid appeal characters. Like, Sammas doesn't need to look cooler than she is. She doesn't have to bounce off idiots like Houston. So don't do it. I was a kid at the time, and it didn't appeal to be that.

Dread is the platonic ideal of Metroid and talking. Because this comic acknowledges the failure that later games recognize, where it's like, well, she should probably have other people to interact with at some point and it's always death whether it's like the shitty X-Men in Prime 3 or the chatty bird bug moth guy in Prime 2

or all of the Federation chuds in the Federation of their M I don't do anything good for you I like Robot Adam Robot Adam is perfect perfect excellent spooky in both fusion I have another piece of obscure ass Metroid trivia that

This might be a great solution. I would write a fanfic about this. Okay. It's canon and yet it is not. But there was a Nintendo made guidebook to Metroid in Japan, Super Metroid. Yeah, Anthony's giving me the thumbs up here. He knows what I'm talking about. Yes.

Where for some reason they had a famous Japanese psychic give a reading, quote unquote, to Samus. And the shit she came up with, holy freaking moly, literally saying that Samus will be a lover, have a child and have to leave them. both. And I'm like, holy shit, that's incredible. Why is this not in the game? I love this. Give me a pen and paper. I got to fix this shit. But then her lover would be Houston. No. Although

it does infer that her lover would be kind of a stupid idiot that she falls for because apparently she has a weakness for stupid idiots. Are you familiar with this, that like the official Super Metroid guy, Pete, that has like the fortune tellers, like reading of Samus's life? Because it's not just that, it's also the

contemporary, much better comic. There's no Houston. There were like New Yorker style panel comics throughout the guidebook and the best of them is like Sammas and then the baby Metroid from the end

of Metroid 2 and I think the caption is something like failed single mother and I'm like where's the Nintendo power couple this art vision with that that text. No it wasn't failed single mother. It was something like you know noble single mother.

Oh, it's noble single mother? It was something very, very nice. I think unmarried, something like that did kind of damn her in a slight way, but made her so much cooler. But, yeah, I remember the comics you're talking about, too. It's another thing we should touch on is that astonishingly, this comic botches the ending of Super Metroid, which is, you know, when you're trying to adapt a game

that doesn't have a lot of story into a story, you would think that you would use the material you were given at minimum. And I actually have always had a lot of misgivings about the ending of Super Metroid. And I think it's a little corny. And I think that, you know, if one of the alien movies ended with Ripley raising a baby alien and the baby alien thinks that it's, her mother, if she's his mother, that sort of diminishes the alienness of the aliens. And I think, you know, the threat of the Metroids, if they're like cute little mammals, is sort of made trivial. And it's, It's like a very, almost like provincial way to frame the story.

However, at this point, and even when it came out, it was a big swing, you know? Yeah. And I don't use this lightly, an iconic storytelling beat. Right. And in the comic, I hope I'm not spoiling anything, but Samus is having a big fight with mother brain. And two of these background characters just kill the baby Metroid while it's flying around. That's right. They shoot it.

So there's none of the, like, heroic self-sacrifice, you know, save mother thing. It's just like, like wrong place, wrong time, total happenstance. Yeah, yeah. And I don't know who let that get past. Again, it just feels like a door was slam on the whole thing. And it's really a shame because I feel like there was supposed to be a relationship with Houston, which was immediately written off because at first, like, there's a point where Santa screws up and she has to be taken back to her home planet to be.

repaired and that's where you find out her past and uh first old bird says like oh she was distracted thinking about you and then he's like oh no wait i'm wrong so i think that was like where that was ended and then again i mentioned rippley turning uh not rippley geez riddley turning tail and running instead of fighting so yeah uh it's a good comic i certainly recommend it for anyone who really wants to see what the start of samis was but then you go ahead and read the manga to kind and get more of that. I definitely recommend that. And I do especially recommend looking up the Nintendo Power,

sorry, Nintendo guidebook, weird stuff about the bastard child. That's some great shit right there. It's so good. Are you thence ready to move on to Star Fox? I concluded to say, Benamaro Ito, I find it both. amazing and deeply disturbing the anatomical

fox mallets that he did throughout this comic these are some real repeatedly some real maus happening and it's just like anthropomorphic

just a little more please as a little as a Jew I'm allowed to laugh at Star Fox mouse that's my ticket that's my right but this isn't that

I mean it's a pretty grim comic at times especially with the last like there's three arcs and the last arc I feel he stopped giving a shit in the best way possible but we start off pretty normally this again is another canon establishing story more or less we learned about Fox McLeod

he was a bandit who became a an R-wing fighter because you know he's the he's the bandit so he's chaotic good he knows how to do this shit it was a big comic 132 pages in total published from February January 1993 to December 93. Yes, this

game about shitty triangles in space had a riveting story behind it. I don't know if I had the story before or after or alongside the comic, but there is some stuff that I found in the game that was kind of parallel to the comic. Like when I got to the black hole in the game, General Pepper was like, oh, here's

where your father died, Fox. And so when I was a kid, I used to go crazy looking for, like, every pixel of this area to find Fox's father, and I didn't realize I had to wait until Star Fox 64 to get any sort of closure. Kind of like how I had to wait until Krono

cross to get any closure about Shala and the Ocean Palace. Thank you, Square Enix, for making my life hell. Yeah, but wasn't that worth the wait? Notia, you know, she just turned into a blonde and lived in a crab until the end of time. I have to say. It all worked out. It all worked out. The remix

there of Shala's theme is fucking incredible. Like, it was worth it for that. I will say that. But So Star Fox, actual Star Fox thing, I appreciated that this actually... So, like, Zelda and Metroid, like, Zelda was defined enough as a game that the comic felt super strange. And we'll get to that. And, like, that only enhanced the sort of, like, almost mystic element of reading it.

But, like, Star Fox was so unflashed out as a game. Like, there's even less sort of explicit text in the actual thing than in Metroid. Metroid always gives you very, like, here's explicit framework, here are very clear, dramatic beats. Star Fox is just very loose, and you have, like, a pretty good idea of character, but not overall plot. And this felt like it fit all of the pieces together in a more meaningful way, which definitely softened the blow of the weird mouth. I little like one little backstory piece here was this was where my Nintendo power subscription ended as a kid and like I was like I don't need this to be renewed I'm okay moving on to I'm a Sega kid now I wasn't a Sega kid and I was ride or die Nintendo especially in 1993 but it was just like I I don't know what it was like by the end of the year I was like by the end of the year like when Link's Awakening was coming out I was almost like I want to discover these

like I want to experience these things without context at that way. Right, right. Like I don't need to know, I don't need previews about Mortal Monday. I'm going to be there on Moral Monday Nintendo Power. But I wanted to know how the Star Fox comic ended and it turned out getting issues of Nintendo Power at the newsstand was a pain in the fucking ass.

Absolutely. I think I missed like a few parts and like had the final one but was missing the second and third the last ones and it was like it made these feel even more dramatic because you missed issues and you like you couldn't go anywhere to find them at all. I actually had I didn't have a subscription but I did have a friend who kind of gave me old issues of Nintendo Power and I remember reading the Star Fox comic and my collection that she gave me kind of ended where right before they went into the black hole. And I was like, oh, damn, that's a crazy place to end, man. And, uh, no, it's a, it's a, as you

say, some of these comics really expand the story and the setting of these games, which are very small compared to what we see these days. And for Star Fox, that's especially fascinating because this is literally a game about triangles. Here's Corneria is a bunch of boxes on the floor, enjoy. So what I really appreciated about the art is how, like, for example, Titania has that big bridge that you fly under. Like they captured that in the comics or how the planet of weird-ass dinosaurs and birds, which was actually designed really, really well

for what they had to be to work with, how that kind of fleshed out as a blood and flushed place, so to speak. And also, Peppy was psychic for some reason. I don't know. I don't know if that was ever contained as canon. All rabbits are psychic. Watership down could have ended a lot less bloody if they were. There's a dog, better run.

No, let's run towards it. That's the best idea. I really liked how they depicted what happened to Fox's father, which is, yeah, he got sections of the black hole. And he became part of a dimension of interdimensional beings that flew around on a whale. And a whale is canonical to this game. Like, there are space like fish in sector-wise. It's a really nice area. Actually, another great design for a level. But I just love that. He lived inside of a whale and was dispensing, uh, canisters of gas because his son was like stuck in space like an idiot.

And again, that's canonical's the game. The whale will give you like a lot of cool power-ups and stuff. So Ito really took this world and really added some great imagination to it. And also took some, somebody took some LSD at the end there because space whale. Yeah, it trips out a little. I think I agree with you guys. I would say of his two of Metroid and this one, this is substantially more successful. It is.

And it really suits the tone, or what I guess I would say is the implicit tone of the game. The tone that they found for the comic is a much better fit than the tone that they found for the Metroid comic. It feels like he had more space to work, like all the space you wanted. Definitely more space to work. More, you know, there's like some dumb jokes in it and they work. They do. They were some funny. It's got kind of like a zany, playful feel.

And it actually really suits the, uh, you know, roguishness of the setup. Like I think it's great to have the Star Fox team be sort of Robin Hood characters or bandits. And that tone, that playfulness of tone goes well with sort of the scrappiness. That actually carries into Star Fox 64. And I think about it because you get a, uh, you give, uh, what's the name? General Pepper a, a receipt for your work. And he says like, this is one steep bill, but is worth it and stamps it. Now that is dependent. on what kind of a score you rack up. If you have like a minor score, he won't say anything. It's like kind of a medium score. He'll say, oh, this is steep, but it was worth it. I once got really high, and he just heard him say, what? So I like, as you say, they had that roguishness.

They did eventually adapt for the games. I also love how there's a whole chapter about them getting to Corneria from Papatoon, where they're from Papatoon, whatever. And they weren't sent tickets. I love that. Like Pepper didn't send them tickets. They had to stow away. And I think I remember vividly,

this is one of my favorite scenes is when they save Farah, Phoenix, who's the love interest for Fox. And the father of Pharaoh's like, you can have anything you want in the world for saving my daughter. And they say, Fox says, oh, how about first class tickets? And Falco says to me, you idiot, you could have asked for a moon. And Star Fox says, oh, moon's not as comfy. I don't know, he's right.

I couldn't argue that. Nadia, does any, do you know, when you were researching this, there's only, there's like only one Star Fox game that has a ridiculous amount of lore in it, and it's Star Fox Command. Oh, I know all about command. There's so, like, it's, Pete, I don't know if you ever play at any of Star Fox Command, but A, it's, it's one of, I don't know why the legacy of Star Fox is, why don't we make a very simple game that is an absolute miserable chore to physically play. Right? Right.

What the F? But it's all like, oh, yeah, Fox and Slippier and Strange and Slippie's like working at a gas station now, but Crystal doesn't call him anymore. It's like a whole fucking thing. Do you know if any of the story beats and elements from the comic in this carried over into that? Is there like a melange of like this and Star Fox's adventures that? I can't say I'm a scholar, but I have kind of like dabbled in the, which, by the way, Star Fox command, I remember first hearing about it. I was on Parris's forums at the time.

And someone was kind of posting screens and dunking on it. And someone else who's in the thread said, oh, my God, I thought there's like a fan game with someone's deviant art depictions of Star Fox. I say, you're not wrong. The lore is a lot. There's things, they do add a lot of characters that you just don't see at all in the comics. there's that panther who steals from Fox and it's just like, holy shit, I'd go with the panther.

Sorry, Fox, you're kind of a loser. There was also, and this is very relevant in the space of new information, there was an ending where Fox and Falco had joined the Grand Prix, the F0. And we just had that, you know, a whole thing come out about how

this rumored game was supposed to be a Star Fox, an F0 crossover, and it never existed. Someone just made shit up, which is disappointing because that's a good crossover, I have to admit. Oh, yeah, the whole, the whole arc of, like, making Metroid and Star Fox and F0 all canonical with each other, like, I buy that. That works in a, you know, not messy way at all.

This is Nintendo's Dark Tower. Star Fox. And that's, and that everybody knows that once you ascend the tower, you just find Tingle waiting at all times on the top floor, waiting. to reset reality so we all have to do it again. I would have blamed Kirby because he's got to be the top of some kind of

like horror trifectar or something. But I also wanted to mention that Andros in this game first of all, raised by Android Pigs, which is, there's actually a really cute panel of him as a little tiny baby clinging to his Android parents.

I thought that was very cute. Apparently, here's the thing about this comic. First, you have your first arc, blah, blah, blah, airwings take on big a transformer face andros whatever's going on with that face he looks like the mascot from playstation that face boom done we're over yay everyone go home second arc was more like uh okay and dros was found and cloned and sorry not cloned but he was found and uh well basically he lived and blah blah blah have to deal with that he he's commanding these animals like the he's

commanding the the fish in sector nine he's commanding the monarch georgia which the dragon in Fortuna. Things go wrong. He gets stepped on by the dragon. I'm serious. And he dies. End of Arc 2. Arc 3 is where I think Eto said, oh, you want me to make another one, huh? Oh, okay. Basically, Andros is cloned by his Android pig friend named Herbert. And he thinks, oh, two of me, we'll get Star Fox now. And it all goes to shit because the clones turn on each other because one clone sees a picture of, no, sorry, he sees Fox's girlfriend, Vixie. and thinks it's Fox's mother, who apparently he loved so much that he killed Fox's father with a car bomb, except the car bomb killed Vixie instead. So there is literally a panel where he says, let me see, I was young in love and I had a spare bomb. And this is him screaming out, by the way. This is all being broadcast to the world in Star Fox. And, like, you know, Clone 2 is like, what are you doing, you dumb fool?

And they struggle. But Star Fox just loses his mind goes, like, super sane with really. rage, like his eyes become these pupillus horrors. And he's like, blasting Andros, I'm like, blah, poop, I hate you, Andrews, I'll never forgive you. And then he just kind of chases Andos into the black hole and it's like,

oh, what about Andrews? Oh, my father will deal with him on the space whale. So that kind of ended. It did end a little abruptly, but not as abruptly as Metroid, but holy shit, car bomb. Vixie got into the car. Like, there's a whole thing about Farrow looking like Fox's mother and Fox's saying, if my

father's side right now, he loses mine. It's a little awkward to read it in this day and age. The picture you included of the man who authored this, everything checks out now. Like, this guy with a 12-string leopard print guitar would definitely write this story with a straight face. This was Nintendo in the age of, hey, Final Fantasy Six, you can't say die, even though your game is about a literal apocalypse. And there's a car bomb in the Star Fox universe, like, yes, okay.

Oh, and it's in your official magazine. Oh, all right. I like it. Okay, okay. Whatever you say, man. It is a hilarious characterization. I definitely lost it at that part. Although I have to say, Andros' backstory is that he hates the military because a military test killed his foster parents.

That's right. Yeah, Corneria destroyed his parents in a war. Yeah, Cornelia killed his parents, which that made me be like, that was like some. killmonger was right, shit. I mean, I... He's right to be mad. Yeah. No, absolutely. He probably shouldn't resort to a car bomb,

but he has the right to be mad. And like I was saying, that panel of him is a little naked monkey thing clinging to his parents is very, very cute, I have to say. What a weird-ass comic. I think it might be my favorite. I know maybe Zelda is the popular favorite here, which I guess we should go right on to.

No car bombs in Zelda, though, so I don't know how you guys think he can hold up. Just tell me a bit about, well, you don't tell me why you like the Zelda comic. So let's just kind of go over a little bit. We talked about the legendary Japanese artist who made it, Shotaro Ishin-Mori. If you ever liked a single seat in the Power Rangers, like I said, or Cyborg 009, I think a Cyborg-O-Nine has been pronounced, Common Rider, it's kind of a big deal.

Yeah, so he just kind of settled down and did a big comic for Nintendo. And this was probably longer than Star Fox. I think it went for a whole year from January 1992 through December 1992. And now what makes this one interesting is unlike Star Fox, unlike Metroid, it does adhere to some canon, but it really plays with the, Canon in general. And this apparently was to keep the, just the reasoning for that is, you know, just to add a more adventurous tone to the story. Anthony, as you said earlier, adding that kind of space to a small world. Like, back in the day, we would think of, like, you think of a Zelda map. When I was a kid, I'd think that's not a map. That's a whole field that goes on for miles and miles, but we're just seeing it from the perspective of a video game. So a comic like this really kind of expanded upon that. But I was thinking I was still a little bit too bothered by some of the changes. Like, I don't know why the hang glider, pissed me off so much because I wanted the duck. I don't understand some of the changes, and I don't know it was because they didn't have everything

available to them to make the comic. Back then, communication was so much harder than it is now with source materials. Well, Pete, and I were actually talking about this prior to recording, there is, for the prominence of the artist involved, it is shocking

how little information there is about this. Right. And, you know, Pete, I think you dug up a quote where, you know, in like a French edition, he's just like, yeah, job's a job, but I did it what I could. And I hear that too. All of that said, I do feel like in 1992, you know, this guy had almost 20 years of history behind him at this point. And he was so prominent.

I kind of feel like they were like, hey, here are the basics. I'm sure they gave him some of like the concept art and we're like, fucking go nuts. Like, as long as you hit these. beats you can probably do whatever you want and that was enough of a cell i do you know i didn't question it at the time like i naturally assumed as i did with all things that there was a wealth of information about zelda in general that was simply hidden like all of life was coming into Amazing Spider-Man at issue 392, right?

You just, you were, oh, you just, there is more than you know, trust that it will be made clear and that maybe you will have access to it, but you can take these things at face value and part of the fun was filling in the blanks. And so I loved the idea of, it also, like, it did feel of a piece with Zelda 2.

You know, it's funny, like, now Zelda 2 is like this black sheep. It's the deep reading that somebody who's played Breath of the Wild 53 times might deign to do on, you know, Nintendo Switch online. But at the time, it's hard to explain, like, that game was a big goddamn deal. And having towns full of weird people that behaved like the librarian in the middle of, you know, this comic, I was like, oh, I'm sure that that's really the story. I don't see the librarian when Link goes to get the book of Mudora, but I'm sure he's there. Like, it makes sense that he is part of all this.

And it's funny, the art is so, this is why I've always wanted all manga and anime to look like. Like, I want that 1975 to 1985 vibe at all times. It's a very vibe. Yeah. It's so specific. and like the line it straddles between wholly engrossing drama and completely if like you know frivolous goofballness it can go between the two in just one panel uh i don't know i like every image in this just feels convincing for lack of a better i have noticed that there's a certain like when link is being goofy it's kind of a loose drawing is very kind of fun and and almost like james baxter but when there's a a serious moment and there are a few in this in this manga like it gets very detailed and i found that very interesting like the intro and the ending are just illustrated extremely well and i find the like all respect but like all the art in between can kind of go up and down especially

towards the end i feel like there's a little bit of sloppiness but no in general it's a really interesting retelling i remember nintendo power would kind of pitch its uh it's trade with a page from the comic where like Aginham is trying to attack Zelda and Link is like, I will never let you get to her. And I'm like, oh, that's so cool, man. I wish I could have Nintendo Power, but my parents have my money so I can't. So one thing that did kind of, uh, chees me off though a little bit is that the Dark World is in this comic and Link becomes like the Dark World twists you. So you become like a monster or an animal. And I always adored how he became a pink bunny in Link and Link's the past. Like that's just here's your, here's your link. He's a soft little

bunny boy but you know what a bunny will fuck you up if you ever played fire emblem if the tagwell from uh was it awakening eight foot rabbits they'll kill you they're pretty cool but anyway so i didn't like the fact that link kind of turned into a wolf thing in this comic like and i actually wondered to this day if twilight princess took that idea like because they kind of had a dark world equivalent and link would change form into a wolf and i know it's supposed to represent courage and and all of that. But I kind of wanted him to be a pink bunny in Twilight Princess. There is a lot of Twilight Princess in this comic, I think, you know, depicting...

Take it back. I love Twilight Princess. He's nemesis, Twilight Princess. You know what really struck me was there's a lot of Majora's mask. I mean, there's a couple panels of like the creepy skull moon in the dark world and Link wearing a monster mask or Link being transformed into a beast. that really evoke that the horror that's in Majores Mask and, you know, you've suffered a terrible fate. And I would say that about this comic in general, that it does have a mix of goofiness and a very dark, eerie, sinister atmosphere at times, which I loved as a kid. And turns out I still love.

But I also think, as far as the question of canonicity, I've just never been invested in that. Oh, who cares, yeah. I did as a child. I think people still care now, and I think that's fine. You know, I've seen responses to this comic online that are like, I don't like this version of link. And, you know, whatever, that doesn't bother me. I don't care about fidelity to the games.

There's already huge breaches in canon between Zelda 1, Zelda 2 and Zelda 3. Absolutely. But the way that this comic takes the game and implies, this beautiful, threatening, spooky world, I think is amazing. And the art is just a knockout to me. I think the, so Ishinomori actually has the Guinness record for the most pages, the most comics pages ever drawn by a single person. I did not know that.

Crazy. So it is afterward about the only thing I could find him saying about this comic was, oh, you know, like those Western editors were kind of a pain in the ass. But, you know, I had it off backwards, don't it. Which actually, like, I'd love to hear he talks about sort of having to cater to Western taboos in a way that he wasn't used to because this comic was commissioned by Nintendo Power. It was not a manga. It was then brought over. Although, I think that's interesting, too, because I think for a lot of people of our age, this could well have been sort of their first exposure to something manga-ask and certainly something.

think, by a great manga artist. But I think when you look at the art of this comic, you see a master who is working briskly. And that could be a bad thing, but I think it's a wonderful thing because these sort of more sketchy drawings of the characters have so much energy and vitality. Yes, they do.

Silliness. And the linework is just so expressive. And then the backgrounds are frequently stunning. They're beautiful watercolor. works that, you know, the action of this comic is so compressed. Everything happens very quickly. There's like a single page that's link getting from the village to the Eastern Palace. It's three panels. I wish we could show this.

Three panels of him traveling through a forest and along a cliffside and through a swamp. That's right. That was a gorgeous spread. Incredible. And it's so, there's no dilly dallying. It gets so much done as far as world building in a way of it. but no number of lore dumps in later games, Zelda, and otherwise could ever match for me.

I-I-N-in is in, Gannon is in maybe a dozen panels, if that. Yeah. Like, he emerges, he's dead, like, almost immediately. Hello. There I go. He, like, comes out, he's like, oh, you know, I got rumbled. And then he's just like, oh, no, I can't move.

I'm dead. There goes my back. But it's so impactful, just the image of him rising out of Agonyms' body only to, like, the very next page is that enormous clash between he and Link. It's so striking. I said to Pete, just last night, the thing that I remember thinking at the time, like, even as a little kid, is I wish there were no words because you would get. everything that this story has to tell you without them. That's true. Even, oh, man, like the haunting image of Link's dead parents being like,

remember, we all did the work before you. Don't fucking forget it. You're grateful. It's fucking awesome. Okay, Mom. To your point, I mean, you've said this to me before. The comic almost works like a silent movie. It has the power of really great experience.

expressionist imagery, and it's just full of ambiance. And, you know, it has some dialogue, but the dialogue is not crucial to the experience, I would say. And I really cannot recommend it enough. There was a There was a, I've always had. this belief. And I swear to God, I had information about it when I was a youngster, but I believe there is a very strong connection between Zelda and Legend, the movie by, of course, Scott Ridley. And I feel like everything's kind of getting twisted up in the canon here.

But this is also a comic that gave Link a fairy guide, which was something also happened in the movie Legend. So it's just like such an interesting little bump. And I think that maybe that became a bit of inspiration, kind of like how I'm just saying. this link in our Western cartoons had a horse. He had a horse. Her name was Catherine. So who knows? I wondered about that too. I wondered about I just would love to know what notes

Ishaenomori got because so much of what's in the comic, I mean, unfortunately, he died in the late 90s. So I think he drew too much. That happens to some masters, unfortunately. Yeah, but it's really sad. But it's looking back on it 30 years later and having

played for better or for worse, Most of the Zelda game since then, I think it's startlingly prescient in a lot of ways. It seemed like they can't be coincidences. And one of the few things that I did manage to dig up was an interview with Miyamoto from the mid-80s, so before his reputation was really secured, where he talked about how big an influence Ishina Mori had been on him. Wow. Interesting.

Before they had contracted him to do this. So it seems like there were some elements of extradition. change and inspiration there. That's really cool. I want to make clear very quickly that horny fairy guide for Link did proceed all of this in the American cartoon that you got on Friday during the Super Mario Brothers Super show. How can I forget?

The horny fairy guide who's jealous of Link's romance with Zelda was a fixture already. So I'm sure Ishinomori was just like, I'm going to leave all this. other, I'm going to leave the excuse me princess of it all over here. Now that I think of it, both of those go back to Peter Pan, at least at Disney's Peter Pan, and that's Tinkerbell and Wendy

straight out of that. I don't know what you're talking about. The depictions of Tinkerbell and the Mary Martin play and Disney's totally acceptable, reasoned, socially conscious film are totally, there's nothing

untoward of that. at all. Actually, just a very brief aside about that. Having a seven-year-old, I have had to re-watch a lot of the classic Disney films in the past few years. You had to, like you were jumping on. I had to. Being forced at a gunpoint. When you turn on the Peter Pan animated movie now, on Disney Plus, there's like, it lingers on like for 30 seconds, a statement that's like, yo dogs we don't yo

where song of the South Disney huh where is song of the South? We're sorry about all of this sorry about all of this it's just like sorry about Tinkerbell's dress sorry about everyone's dress

oh are they sorry are they apologizing for Tinkerbell says because she gave us a boner so her word's going to give you a boner too it's fair they're really on the ball in a not not metaphorical

I think that maybe they realize now everyone's a monster fucker so they just like know, hey, we all know your horn for Sinkerbell. Keep it down, all right? Keep it down. Link doesn't bat an eye. No, Link doesn't bat an eye. He is completely unfazed. I do find it strange that there isn't a cult of hornyness that surrounds this comic because Roan. Rome. I was going to bring up Rome because I think it's actually very interesting. The thing with Rome is that, see, Link is a descendant of the Knights of Hyrol. It's always been kind of one of his things. And the Knights of Hyrule, the descendant of said knights, is supposed to have the power to wield the master's sword. Now, here comes Rome and says what? Did like one to two people in the Knights of Hyrule fuck and that's it? I'm here too, man.

I'm a descendant as well. And Link's like, oh, shit. So now Rome's like, I deserve to wield the master's sword. I think that's really interesting. I love the idea of there being a rival to Link because, like, no, you're not the hero. I am. That's a cool, cool thing. This guy who's sort of an anti-hero who appears in the dark world who's looking for Ganon himself. I think it's a great edition. And his fate and his sort of tragic flaw of his

arrogance really fits in well. There's, you know, there are elements of this comic that are quite goofy and fun. But there is like a melancholia underlying a lot of it. And I think that character embodies a lot of that. And I think that the ending also, which Anthony has written about, it's very bittersweet. And it really stuck with me over the years. I mean, that made a huge impression on me as a kid. And it has to do with Lincoln Zelda, who had felt so close through this adventure being sort of taken on different paths in life, let's say, which I thought, okay, maybe he just throws that in at the end. But actually, reading, rereading at this time, knowing that that was coming, I

see a lot of that threaded through and anticipated. Yeah. You know, there's a beautiful mix of emotional tones in this comic from sort of the goofy to the spooky to the

bittersweeter or melancholy. Which is vintage Zelda. Like, that is essential to that, like, at the time, the character of Zelda is, you know, to a lesser extent now, I feel like when people respond very powerfully to Brothers of the Wilde, the Tears of the Kingdom.

It is that balance between the flighty, the goofy, the sort of inconsequential and the-crucifying Khorrochs. The sort of one melancholic feel of a lonely landscape. Yeah, I mean, I think that if I think about it, almost all my favorite work in any medium has the sort of sweet and sour qualities. you know, that Mother 3 is, if you want to have another video game. Yeah, a heartbreaker with, like, so many zany elements, you know, like a heartbreaker with a snake that you use as a hookshot. Yeah, exactly. It's a hard line to walk, but the comic does it really well.

Yeah, if you think about, you know, you think about the Beatles day in life, it's like it has John Lennon's sort of existential ruminating parts, and it has McCartney, Woco. got out of bed, you know. And it's greater than the sum of either of those parts, you know, that that is what life is like. It's like this irreducible melange of sensations and feelings that you can't reconcile. And the best art contains all of that.

And, you know, am I going to make a claim for this Zelda comic that was serialized in Nintendo Power as the best art? I don't know, but it hit me pretty hard this time. And I really think it's totally worth revisiting for anybody who's curious about it. I think all of these comics are definitely worth revisiting Zelda and Link, the relationship there, I remember vividly, like even after rereading the comic, I still remember the scene, the last panel of her riding away from him. And he's just looking after her like, what the, does that look on his face that says, oh, shit,

what did I just do? What have I gone through for what? And these days, the relationship between Link and Zelda is usually kind of, it depends from game to game, like Skyward Sword. They were obviously a couple, and they were actually very cute. I think I like that couple the best. There's a scene in the really, really excellent link between worlds where you find out that Zelda kind of looks longingly at this mural of the hero, quote, and I guess her ancestor, Zelda. So she has feelings there as well.

They're sleeping in the same bed in tears of the kingdom, just like putting that out there. It's a classic weather, won't they? Yeah, exactly. The cheers of its time. Yeah. I'm sorry, there's two play settings on the table. They're totally stripping. But that's fine. They should if they want. And this comic, though, it didn't work out. And until this point, Zelda had always been kind of a prize. Like, yay, you rescue me. Or in two, you get a kiss. But it's obviously like, you know, what do we do with the ending? Let's make them kiss. Yeah, great. Everyone go home. Three was. No, in two, they're like, nobody's going to see it anyway. Nobody's, it doesn't get that. Game genie, bitch. I saw it. damn thunderbird god who makes that i saw everything who says i love children it makes the thunderbird and like go to hell but i managed i got the kiss and like they kind of put the the curtains down so it's kind of a cute but yeah this um was probably really one of the first mediums that gave

lincoln's elder a really meaningful relationship because even in three she's like oh i'm in sanctuary thank you bye whereas here you you do find out whether or not they ended up together. It's a very clear, obvious no. And this is a trope that comes up from time to time when two powerful people are connected. And then they drift apart. What are the people who do illusion of Guy? Quintet, they love that. They are totally like just bawling for it. And I love them for it. Oh, me too. Okay. Quintet podcast. Big quintet energy. Big creation of heaven and earth energy in this guy. We got to talk about Soulblazer sometime. I'm recruiting you now

for a Quintech podcast. I don't care. I want to talk quintet so much. But for now, that goes over a lot of, like, the Zelda comic and the Star Fox comic. And why don't we talk just a little bit about the Mario comic? Because that's also kind of insane, but not as dramatic. More of a fun insane than a dramatic insane. Where is more Charlie Nosawa art?

Yes, right. Excuse me. The art in the Mario comic The Mario comic is like it's one of those things that Zelda reads very well collected Like you can read it as a singular work and it flows very well because it is

so visual But you know The Mario thing does have the feel of something that was you know sort of serialized in the classic Like yes Uncle Bond magazine format It is condensing a shit ton of visual and lingual jokes into a very

small space and it's just not pleasant all at once because it's so dense but the art is so funny and the whole thing like the vignettes are so fucking weird they are like when they go into the boo ghost

house and you get this like mad cat depiction of Dr. Mario as behavioral therapist who's like we're going to escape the booze by doing talk therapy and it

It's like six panels, and every single one of them is goddamn hilarious. It's so good. It's so good. I actually love this one. I actually did read this all in one sitting because I was trying to catch up with you guys yesterday. It is very dense. I had no strong memories of this from when I was a kid, or I thought I did. But then I kept remembering little panels that are so funny.

It's just, like, the art is fabulous. I have no particular fondness for Mario as like a. milieu, you know, but I am so tickled by this comic. It's got like a great gag on every page. I was really like, I'm laughing out loud at this Mario comic for children. It's like, I mean, the one thing I did remember was psychotherapy on the big blue, which is incredible. But there's, you know, there's like little toads, there's like a strike team of commando toads that all have little moustaches and aviator glass. And Bowser's kids are playing a version of Super Mario Bros.

But where it's Bowser kicking and punching a bunch of Mario's, it's like there's the scene I remember most. I don't even know why, but it's around the time they first meet the Yoshis and the Yoshi. And there's a scene where I don't know if it's, I can't even remember Luigi or someone looking up and they see Yoshi's face taking up like the entire panel like a fish eye lens and then screaming. That's so great. Yeah. It's just full of life. Huge schnaz. And I also have to say, I love the characterization of the princess.

Oh, she's great. She's so funny, has so much like gusto and really in the games. She was a maniac. Like, she was like, I'm not going quietly. Exactly. Exactly. I loved that. It's like, oh, now I'm going to marry Bowser.

No, I'm not. I'm going to dress with Luigi and get the hell out of here. Yeah, hell though. I don't know about you guys. Nadia, you. and I talked about Super Mario RPG not that long ago as of this recording. Like, there was such a strong link

between these two things in my mind at the time. Even though they're, you know, separated by four years, which especially when your kid is an infinity. Yeah. But the, the, like, when I finally tried Super Mario RPG around like late 1997, I was like, oh, like clearly they, referenced that comic because the vibe is so

similar like that depiction of the princess is identical the whole wedding sequence of like a big ridiculous weaponized cake that's fucking up Bowser like all of it feels so of a piece and the the bizarre

like weird salesman that shows up to like Floyd the friendless salesman I think my husband are person all the time grifting Mario and Luigi left in right that that also like he would just be right at home in super mario RPG as a character it's yeah i i have to take this moment to point out uh to our dear listeners of retronauts guests

anthony and i did do this episode uh panthe of the blood god for supermire RPG i just have to share the story where this is around the time i was on my school's bbs and we were playing super mario RPG and talking about it as like you know high schools across ontario someone was so angry about that cake boss they were just furious about the fact that we were fighting a can't And this is after, you know, Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy Sixx, these big epic battles, fucking cake. And I'm like, well, it's Mario. It's fun. It's funny.

No, why am I fighting a cake? He was really angry at the cake to this day. And so I think of one thing was. What the dick. Picked the wrong horse on buying that game. He kind of did, yeah. But it is interesting. So you guys are drawing these tonal connections.

And it's interesting how a lot of times when we in the West got expanded media based on these games, it was way the fuck off. You know, if you look at the Super Mario Brothers Super Show or the Zelda cartoon, the excuse me, Princess cartoon or the Mario movie or all that stuff was so clearly from a Western sensibility that it feels totally alien and bizarre in the context of later games. What's interesting about these comics is for how early they were,

they're totally contiguous with the tone that would follow. You know, we talked about Majoris Mask and Twilight Princess and Super Mario RPG. And I think that, you know, having Japanese artists, even under commission for a Western audience, ended up with something

that was much more in line with, you know, whatever, the questions of authorial intent, but much more in line with what people like Shigar Miyamoto had in mind. There's also, you're absolutely right. And I'm also thinking of there's like smaller comics to supplement this one comic,

where Wario, would appear. And there was like fights, for example, over a Samus doll. And it's like, oh, I want to give to the princess. I want to give to the princess. And it's such a cute little doll. I actually used to use it as one of my very early icons for the internet. And I specifically remember the one where he's, Mario is invited to Wario's house. And it's a trap. And Mario's having these great memories of, oh, we played together, me and Mario, we had a great time. And Wario's, from his perspective, Mario was a dick, like a huge dick. So there's a reckoning. And it's just one of, I Again, one of those comics where I think you were right earlier, Anthony, when he said it's meant to be taken in small doses.

Because when you do, it's absolutely hilarious. But I guess if you go on for too long, it kind of loses that. On the other hand, I don't think there's a certain person. I don't think there's a single person on this universe who doesn't look at that picture of Princess Peach, like, dressed up in overalls and says, I hope this doesn't awaken something in me. I wasn't going to say it. It did at the time. And it has not diminished. I don't think it has because it came up a lot when people were talking about the princess as a picture in the movie.

Like, why can't she have Luigi's overalls? And Luigi had a dress and he really rocked it too. So good on Luigi. Yeah, twice. Luigi wears the princesses dressed and then while Mario is playing psychotherapist, Luigi is playing nurse. I was like, there's something going on here. This is recurring. This is recurring.

I wish I long for I like I still enjoy the Mario games that come out now Me too But the whole Mario franchise has become so sterile And like it's been pretty sterile for about 20 years now Like I'm of I am one of the few people that does not love Super Mario Galaxy even I know I know something's broken inside of me

But I miss I miss their feeling like there was no rules. Did you play, have you played Luigi's Mansion? Because that's where all the Nintendo's humor is going. It's hilarious. I love Luigi's Mansion. It's hilarious. I love all three of those games.

Any game where Mario is not the main center, triple A focus, is hilarious. Nintendo has some of the best writing in the industry. Nobody knows it. So that's why I'm so bummed is that the Alpha Dream is out. I loved Mario and Luigi. I loved Paper Mario. I think their writing was brilliant. Sad.

I have a lot of hope for the future because I don't think a lot. It seems like not enough people played it. But Bowser's Fury is its own game. It's really good. And it feels a lot more lively and vibrant. And like they made a game that feels of a piece of this comic again. Right. Rather than like new Super Mario Brothers, which is like if a Walmart tag sale was a,

given the reins of the Mario aesthetic. Yeah, I wonder if it's just that there's too much at stake for them now. And they, you know, this is like their biggest moneymaker. But it's true that there's, it feels like there's, in the same way that Zelda after Link to the Past and Aquino sort of became more formulaic, became more conservative, I feel that Mario has somehow become that over the last 20 years. And what it feels like sort of, there's like a mandatory fun quality to it, where you're like, oh, it's a fun.

Zany Universe yet I'm weirdly I'm not really having that much fun with it I you know I found Odyssey kind of a slog and it's odd because it when I think about that game I'm like if you thinking about like New Doc City you're like this is a game that is taking some big swings aesthetically like that's that's pretty weird uh but it doesn't register it feels feels all sort of plasticized and safe it's very flat it's very flat if you read this comic to your point. There's much more life in it. One of my favorite headlines that I wrote for US Gamer RIP is there are no children in New Donk City. I wrote this whole narrative about how like there are no children in New Donk City. Why? What has become of them? Like I'll dig it up and show it to you guys later

because it was just one of those articles where I'm like, hey, it's Friday. I don't give a fuck anymore. Here's your 400 words. Pauline is apparently forbidding people from having children. Nadia, what's wrong with you? There's a false end. in the middle of one of their bits. They ride off into the sunset. And then Mario's like, wait a second. This is idiotic. Why are we ending the story here?

I want all Mario games to feel like this again. Maybe they will. I mean, at the time of this recording, tomorrow is a Nintendo direct. Who knows what you'll get? You know, like that, a tiny beat that I really love that I'll spoil is there's a big panel of big blue looming up behind Mario Luigi. And the sound effect is,

loom I love you don't see it that often I have seen a few times as a loom as a sound effect is probably one of my favorite sound effect It's so good It's so good

So I don't know if you guys went down the rabbit hole Of looking up Charlie Nozawa But this is like a Shigasato A toy situation Oh really He's like primarily a marketing guy He wrote

He made you know Copy and ad illustrations And just happened to do things like this on the side. So it's not like you can like go find Charlie Nozawa manga out there for a similar experience. It's really good for somebody who apparently never did it. Well, that's better than finding out the Mega Man Zero artist

was a hentai artist as well. Who wasn't? Were they really? I don't know the full story, so I can't say it on here, but do some Googling and you won't be surprised. Yeah, exactly. You know, you think back about it. I'm thinking about it.

That checks out. Not that I know. Of course not. Oh, excuse me. Oh, God. Maybe this is a good place to end our very cursed episode. So thank you all for listening. We hope you had a great time reading along with us.

I think this was a great discussion. I want to bring you all back for a discussion about Valiant comics someday if you ever read those. Oh, the Game Boy comics. Oh, that's a history right there. The Game Boy comics are weird as shit. Anyway. Yeah. I digress.

Well, before we wrap up, let's talk about where we can be found. Peter, you go first because you were the gentleman and Anthony and I were completely awful. I've always liked you guys. Oh, we like you too. You can follow me on Twitter. It's Turbo McPhaser. We'll put that somewhere I hope. Like I said, I work at Cuphead Maker Studio MDHR right now, but you can play my most recent solo game, which is called Witch Eye.

It's about a witch who transforms into a flying eyeball of Vengeance. Cool. That really meant to be like a very pure game experience kind of game where like you hit a snake and a gem comes out of it. The good stuff. And it goes bloop, blue,

bloop. And then lastly, if you like 80s metal or synth rock or the idea of a rock band from space, I put out a concept album last year called Star Patrol Return to Megatown. It's a really fun, bittersweet, emotional adventure with a bunch of cool guitar and space sound effects. So check it out.

Awesome. And Anthony, what about you? Everybody play witch eye. It's got the best boss fights. I just want to put that out there. Those boss fights are really good. You can find me on the internet fitfully talking about how my first dream that I can recall was marrying Princess Lana in Captain N. Well, Kevin was kind of cute.

No, wait, shit. I went in a weird direction. You can follow me at A. John A. John A. Gnello on Twitter and Blue Sky. You can listen to my other podcasts, continue podcast, and video game grooves on, you have Google. Use Google it. What are you from? What are you doing? Yeah, Google it. As for me, I'm your host, Nadia Oxford. I'm on, I am Nadia Oxford at Twitter. I'm also on Blue Sky now. At Nadia Oxford, so I'm very easy to find. You can find more Retronauts at Retronauts.com or Patreon.com. forward slash retronauts. $3 a week gets you early access to episodes ad free and a week in advance. You can get exclusive episodes if you donate $5 a month and you get Discord access for that as well. And then there's the Nintendo Ultra 64 level, which gives you the opportunity to choose a retronauts topic once every six months. And you get all the other cool crap as well.

As for me, you can support me over at the Ax of the Blood God podcast where I co-host about RPG's old and new Eastern and Western. please visit us at bloodgodpod.com or patron.com or slash bloggodpod pod. Until next time, I'm young, I'm in love, and I have a spare bomb. Thank you.