Retronauts - 558: Disney's Illusion Games

Episode Date: September 11, 2023

A real Mickey Mouse operation from Stuart Gipp, John Linneman and Thomas Nickel, covering Sega’s iconic “...of Illusion” series of Disney games!

This week in Retronauts, it's not a trick, Michael. It's an illusion. Hello and welcome once again to Retronauts, the Retronauts, the RetroGanyan podcast, is sometimes presented by a British man named Stewardship. That's me. And that's our unique selling point. Now, normally on these podcasts, as you'll recall, I'm completely alone and talking to myself, but not this time. This time, I have two other people with me. And I have to say, I'm very sorry, but they are people who have been here before. So if you were hoping for some new names, not today, not this time. Let's go in alphabetical order by first name once again and check in with the first guest. Hello, it's Epic John.

John Lenneman here. Talk about some Mickey Mouse action, 16-bit style. Yes, we're back to talk more platformers. And also joining us today. Hello, this is Thomas Nickel. I am from M-Games. I'm a freelance writer and a lecturer, and I can promise you that none of these games will make you miserable. Or maybe one of them. Nice. I like it. Yeah, today we're talking about something that's extremely near and dear to my heart to the point that, okay, let me lay this out. for you. Now, this is not going to ring that true, but I genuinely don't tend to get that annoyed about video games. It is actually quite rare. I can be cynical about video games. I can be sarcastic about video games, but getting genuinely annoyed. That doesn't really happen that much. When they tried to do this series again in a more modern time, I got genuinely

annoyed because they're not allowed to. Now, what we're talking about here is the Disney's illusion series, the dot, dot, dot, dot, of illusion series, which is not the biggest series, but I think there's enough there to get our teeth into. And that's, of course, comprising, gosh, how many, one, two, three, four, five, six, and seven games, although only six of them I'd call really legitimate efforts. All the classic ones. Basically, yes. Though I'm, we'll see when we get there, but what it essentially accounts, what it amounts to

is four games, or five games and a remake of one of those games, or should I say two of those games, we'll get there, we'll get there. Now, the fascinating thing about this is, Cast of Illusion, the original game in this series, Mickey Mouse. So, Cast of Lusion starring Mickey Mouse to give it its full title, though I believe it was originally just titled Mickey Mouse on the back of like the Mega Drive box where it's like a picture. I think it just says Mickey Mouse, but that might be for space reasons. In Japan, it's called I Love Mickey Mouse, which is a bit presumptuous, if you ask me. Well, the Japanese do love their Disney and do love the Mickey Mouse.

If you've ever been to a Japanese Disney store, these things are humongous. I haven't been to a Japanese Disney tour. Honestly, if I was in Japan, I would probably importantly not go into the Disney store. I would avoid it. Yeah, same with me, but friends of mine always have orders from various Disney stores. So I just, I do it begrudgingly because, honestly, I find these Disney stores quite cloying, quite, oh dear. It's very gauche, aren't they? I would go to the HoloLive store, which is probably much better.

So I guess the best place to start with, speaking, I'll ask John first, as I did before. What's your first sort of encounter with the Illusion series and what's your sort of history with it? Well, so I actually came to this one slightly later than you guys, because I was also late to the Mega Drive or Genesis Party. Maybe I'm a little bit. It's a Mega Drive, John. It's okay. We don't, we're not, we can say to it. I prefer Mega Drive. I prefer, as is as is right.

and true, please to continue. Since we're talking history, though, I knew it's the Genesis. Yeah. Weirdly enough, I actually came to this one after playing Capcom's magical adventure games on the Super NES, right? I played that first, and I really liked that. But I was also really big into Sega. And, you know, Sonic was already out by the time I got my hands on this.

But then I picked this up and played it and was blown away. Like, it was an early game for the system. but man, it felt so just playable, right? It's one of those platform games you just go through where you're just like, this is really, like, this is just a good, wholesome, solid platform game. And it looks great. Even for such an early game, it looked really great. And it just had this vibe to it.

And it kind of stuck with me for a while. And then I ended up playing its Genesis sequel. But then the master system ones, which we'll talk about, I actually didn't play those for like 15 years. after that point, right? I mean, and I was surprised by them, too. Like,

these are amazing for the system especially. I mean, that's an interesting perspective because, like, I genuinely to this point had never considered the idea that anyone on the planet would have played the magical quest games

without being completely and fully aware of the Megadryph ones, even though now that I think about it, that's probably very common. Absolutely, absolutely. To me, it's just kind of like, whoa, okay, all right. But Thomas, what about you? What was your experience?

with these games? So my experience to just give the context again to that. I was new wish to games. I loved the Game Boy. I loved some computer games and then I had the opportunity to get a console for Christmas. So much thinking that was in Christmas

1991, what do I get? Do I follow the Nintendo propaganda and get the NAS as everybody does? Or will I just take the risk and go to something new? And so I decided, okay, why not let's get a Mega Drive? Why not a Megadrive.

Oh, hell. Wow. Yes. So it was ordered. Sonic was the pack-in. So I had one more slot for a free game. I thought, okay, what's the big stuff right now? And I just went for, okay, let's take that Mickey Mouse game because the reviews back

then said it was really good. And I like platformer games. I like Jump and Run games, as they call them over here in Germany. So it was that. And then Christmas rolled along. I got the console with Sonic, with Castle of Illusion. I had no idea what a Megadrive game looked like in motion back then. Wow.

It must have been mind-blowing. I mean, you know that scene from Simpsons, right? When Milhouse enters his name in her bones. Yeah, yeah. Pretty much like that. So I played Sonic first and, oh my God, this is the future. This is amazing and absolutely brilliant. Then I put in Castle of Illusion and at first I thought it was a bit quaint, a bit slower,

a bit, maybe a bit mushyer than Sonic. But I think over the next couple of days, I really warmed up to it and just found out how good this really is and how different from Sonic. and yeah, it's just nice to have these two incredibly good and very, very different platform games and I played them both for hours on end in these weeks after Christmas. That's awesome. Yeah, they really do make a great pair, don't they?

Yeah. It's, I mean, for me personally, this is like so formative for me because Casts of Illusion, which was like one of the earliest sort of games that I played because I sort of owning my own thing Because I got a master system console for Christmas in either, I can't remember it was 92 or 93. It was probably 93.

And I'm like, what, like five, six at this point? And the master system that I got, it had Alex Kid built into it and it had a sonic cartridge with it. It was that pack-in set. The Master System 2, the Toaster one. But I also got separately cast of illusion. And that was my favorite one. Like it almost immediately became my favorite one because, There's just something so playable and likable about it.

It's just such a good-looking game. Like, I would, I mean, I think it looks better than Sonic on the Master System. It's just so clean. Yeah, and it runs better, too. But one of my sort of earlier memories of this is because I was so new to games, I just really awful at playing them. And Class of Lusion on the Master System is, like, kind of hard for considering. Yeah, and, well, it's, yeah, it's hard.

I'm incapable of finding it difficult now for obvious reasons, but I think it's definitely more difficult than a Mega Drive one by some distance. And my memory of this is it comes with both practice and normal modes. And practice mode is just three very, very short levels, very short. And I couldn't do it at all, particularly I couldn't do level three, which is an auto-scroller. It's a chocolate factory. It's an auto-scrolling level. And for me, at that time, at that age, it was not possible for me.

And one day I remember coming home from school And finding my parents My appalling evil parents Had got on my computer Without my permission And had finished it They had finished my game before me On practice mode, yes

But the level of like Transgression, you know The violation that is It was appalling, I was appalled My parents aren't actually appalling and evil I just was doing that for a joke I thought I'd admit they're clear We're going to be able to be.

I'm going to be. I'm going to be. But this game is just like real resonant for me. So this game's just like real resonant for me, really just a big one. And for a long time, I really wasn't capable of recognizing the Mega Drive one as being nearly as good as that. Because for me, it's the opposite way around for a lot of people. The Master System is the main one. And the Mega Drive is like, whatever, it's the other version.

But let's get into the Mega Drive one. 1990, really, so pre-Sonic. So, John, you're very good at this sort of history stuff. So maybe you could give us a sort of prescise of what was going on in the sort of consensus lifespan here. So I think this is important to consider because Sega was not yet a powerhouse. The Mega Drive Genesis would become a huge hit in Europe and North America, of course. But in 1990, it was still kind of the new kid on the block coming off of the somewhat failed master system, at least in North America. And Japan, of course, yes.

So it was tough for Sega, I think, during these early days. And they were still in that state of trying to find the thing that would work for them, right? The Super NES was not out yet, right? But the hype was huge. It would have been out, I guess, in Japan when this game launched, but not in North America. Started out in Europe. Yeah, exactly. So basically, Sega had like a year and some change to convince consumers that, no, this is the 16-bit machine you want.

And they did that by getting access to various licenses and personalities and sports figures, right? That's why you've got all the commercials. You've got like Michael Jackson. You've got film-based games like Rambo. You've got all the sports games. Yeah, with that account for like Super Monarcho, excuse me, GP. That actually not. That's an earlier thing.

That was also an arcade machine. But having Ayrton Center involved. I think that is connected with that, yeah. Right, right. I would still say it's connected where it's like they're capitalizing on popular brands and ideas. But John, tell me this quickly. I think F1 racing is not a thing in the States, right? I mean, it's not non-existent, but it's certainly not popular as it is around the rest of the world, I suppose.

So at this point then, Sega had really not established a mascot either. They tried with Alex Kidd. Boy, did they try. But the first attempt that Alex Kidd on the Mega Drive was actually kind of awful. Am I fair to say that? Would you guys agree? Yeah, I mean, it's not the worst Alex Kidd game, obviously, but it's probably like, it's probably like the same. Second or third worst, I mean, if you're not a rank, I, I think it's just basically like if Miracle World was kind of shitty and boring, because I like Miracle World, you know.

Yeah. It's like a less good miracle world. Exactly. That's a good way to look at it. And I mean, it's less good on a better console, though that's not a good mix. No, it's not. And they had like altered beast as a pack-in, right? Which is a good game in retrospect, but it's not that interesting of a pack-in title.

there's not a lot of depth there. It's just a very basic arcade game. So they had this problem. And by 1990 as well, like the NES was still hot, right? It was still selling gangbusters. And this is where a lot of the best games released for Nintendo's systems. Yeah, this is when they all showed up. Developers were pushing the heck out of that system. So you got the NES still kicking butt. Nintendo is teasing and hyping up their next 16 machine. And then you have Sega here, along with, I guess, NES still kicking. N.E.C. would be entering the ring, if not already. I guess by that point, trying their hand at it as well. So it was kind of this three-way throw-down knockout kind of battle. So one of those IP that Sega went after is, of course, Mickey Mouse. It's a popular character, of course. And Disney seems to have obviously been on board with them. And so they started development by putting different teams on these various Disney games. And we're not going to talk about the Western attempts like Fantasia today. but they actually assembled some very talented Japanese developers within Sega to produce, well, this game and all the games we'll be talking about mostly today. And they did a phenomenal job. But I'm also surprised because you say the phenomenal team, I agree absolutely, but many of them were still unknown, especially the director, Emiko Yamamoto, was... That's right. This was her first game, and they gave you such a big IP and such an important game. And, I mean, she lived up to the challenge.

You're not wrong, Thomas, but it is kind of like indicative of the way Sega was sort of doing business back then, where a lot of those designers that would become like rock star designers within Sega, I mean, their initial projects, they had to start somewhere, and they were giving these big responsibilities, and they largely delivered. And I think that's what gave a lot of Sega games such a unique flavor at the time is because you'd have a new director step in. And the games were still small enough where you could use a small team and have complete control over the development. and that they were able to just come up with crazy ideas and concepts that, you know, you wouldn't necessarily expect. And I definitely think you see that here where it feels like she's like really leaning into, like, really referencing the Disney aspect of this and say, how can we turn these fantastical Disney drawings and art and all this stuff into a game that's actually compelling? And she also has an approach, I think, a bit like that early May Maito stuff.

stuff like Donkey Kong, just coming in, nobody is there to tell her this, you can't do that, it doesn't work, we just do it. So what to just flip level on the head? Let's do that. Absolutely. It's interesting because I think this game, it captures something from thinking about sort of what Mickey Mouse cartoons are like, you know, I mean, it does capture something of the feel of the kind of, like, say, for example, The Mad Doctor, which is later used,

obviously, in a Mickey Mania more directly, but here, I think they capture. the sense of, like, menace about those old cartoons, but also, I feel like there must be some inspiration taken from, like, the European Mickey Mouse Comics, where he's cast in these kind of roles more frequently, right? I mean, it doesn't feel very cartoony, in a way. It's all very rendered in a very, like, passily kind of almost quasi-realistic sort of a sense to me. The only thing that sort of stands out is you've got your, um, the enemy sprites, I mean, everything fits together in the world, but it's, it's not very very much. very like day glow. It's not very

what I would have thought of as Mickey Mouse nowadays. Like back then I guess there was more of a this character is versatile. This character can be cast anywhere because in a sense you get the impression that they could almost lift Mickey out of this and put back in just a sort of a generic character

but then I don't know how to explain what I mean. It's just unusual for what you'd expect from a Mickey Mouse game I think I think what they did is that I looked at the old Disney movies like Sleeping Beauty and stuff like that with these more muted colors and these detailed worlds and these forests in movies like this, the forests are really a bit scary and a bit menacing.

And of course, like, the final boss is, does take the form of the old lady from Snow White as well initially, yeah. The thing about the visuals in this game that always struck me was how, the things you mentioned there, of course, but this sort of game would change so dramatically in the years that followed in terms of the visual design, right? we saw the rise of the quote unquote digital style stuff made popular by like the Aladdin game right and there was this push to make animated based games look like the cartoons in a unique way it's like we gotta get to sell animation in here it needs to look and move like a cartoon but this predates that and this has more of uh I would say it honestly to me looks like a mid to late 80s Sega arcade game like something they would have done on

the system 16 you know what I mean? mean, where it's just, there's a lot of detail on the pixel art. It's not like super bright primary colors and it just moves and animates really well. And that's something Sega was really good at. And I think it really showcases like what you got with the Genesis slash megadrive versus the 8-bit NES or even the master system, though. The master system version looks good too, of course. If you compare that stuff, if you compare now Castle of Illusion with Alex Kit, for example, Alice Kit is just this one static sprite standing there, maybe blinking over every once in now. But Mickey Mouse is always swaying back and forth, has this beautiful jump

animation, different jump animations, has this arm, arm wiggling when he's standing and natch, all these things that give the character so much more life. When you're running down the slope and he's like panicking as well, that's really cute. So, I mean, let's talk about the basic sort of mechanics here briefly, which is that... Yeah, that's a very brief thing because they're simple, in a good way. Very simple. You've got, you know, move, you've got jump, you've got what the butt bounce, which is pressing jump again while in midair, which lets you, not just kill enemies, but you can also bounce high, often, which is used quite early on, in fact, as a necessary move. Which also feels really, really good at this.

Now, considering, I'll get to a side, I won't go on a tangent right now by one in a second, sorry. You can also throw objects like marbles and things that you find in the levels as projectiles. A bit like, say, a fireflower, but they're just straight ahead like projectiles that go horizontally. Now, the butt bounce, now coming to this from the mast system version, because I didn't play this game until like emulation, I had no means of playing it. I couldn't figure out the butt bounce because in the master system version pressing, doing the butt bounce

means you've got to press button two, then button one. In this, that's not the case. I press C and then I press one of the other buttons that didn't do anything and I couldn't jump on enemies and I was like, wow, it's weird that you can't jump on enemies in this game. So I get to the third stage, I think it is, the storm sort of the latest forest stage with the tree, you got a climb.

Yeah, and I couldn't get past that. I eventually figured out you can hold down on the D-pad to make him do the butt bounce, but he won't bounce high off of it. I got stuck for ages and trying to figure that out until I eventually realized oh, it's C twice.

It's just a really brief thing, but it's just, I find it funny how I had almost the opposite experience to everyone else with this game. Though I do like it a lot. I think it's great. I mean, taking those few mechanics, they rather sensibly make this

quite diverse sort of game. It's not very long, but it keeps changing the visuals, the visuals keep changing, and the way that you play keeps changing as a result. So there is a nice sense of variety. I'd like also to talk a bit about that, yeah. How the stages change all the time.

I think we could just rock through them really, because the thing is, there are only technically five stages, but there's so many different like environments within those stages. Right, because they're broken up into chunks, right? Like that's what's interesting. Each chunk is its own unique thing, almost like a set piece. The first stage alone has three very different set pieces. You have the forest with everything,

some swinging around with that apple rolling after you, basic nice first stage. Then you have that spider web stage with entirely new backgrounds, very beautiful music and this is a very impressive background, I think. And then back to the forest, it gets

dark, you have ghosts, and you have this nice, gloomy music. So you do a lot, you really have a feeling you are crossing, you're covering ground and stuff is changing around you, and you are on adventure, not just playing levels after levels. Yeah, and that's why I would say, like, even though it's technically all part of the first stage, it kind of feels like three separate stages, like you would see and say a Mario game,

you know? Yeah, I mean, each chunk is about as long as a Mario level. The way they delineate, the stage is almost as arbitrary in a sense. Yeah, yeah, it doesn't actually matter, obviously. It's not a downer for the game. I mean, uh, yeah, um, I mean, every level is offering some kind of new interesting thing, which, you know, you'd expect it to, but, like, when you get to the toy stage, first of all, you've got this. fantastic, you've got that vertical stage where you make your way up and then run it all the way back down again, which is really, really cool

and memorable. The stage where you flip the stage killing everything that's on the screen which is really, really fun. Do you walk on the ceiling? I can't remember this, or does it just flip the stage? Yes, you do. You walk to see it. Yes, yes. Which is, again, that's pre-figures like a gimmick that I've

I mean, is that the first platform game to do the upside down Gimmick. Surely it can't be. But it's the first one I can remember. I'm sure there's something somewhere on a home computer with a name we forgot about. I probably met one of the first that was really noted by many people.

What about Metal Storm? When did Metal Storm come out in the NES? Oh, that was 91 actually. Oh yeah, on the NES. That was later. That might have been after this. That was 81. Yeah, it was before Mega Man 5, which did it with Gravity Man obviously. So yeah, I'm going to preemptively give that to Mickey Mouse in that respect. Actually, quick. My

theory on this, looking at the way this game's built and broken up, is that the developers here may have been inspired by Sega's arcade heritage because it feels designed more like an arcade game than a typical home console game. You know, the type where it needs to come up with something unique and flashy on every single level, which, you know, normally with the platform game, you'd see like a lot of tile reuse and, like, they'd build many levels around the same theme and you beat all those levels. Where here, it's like, no, each chunk is completely different. Yeah. And I think, That's cool. I agree. I mean, I could just kind of gush about some of the kind of a gimmicks here that I only initially saw here, like the ruin stage where it fills up with water, which then retracts. That's really cool. I mean, and then, you know, they were even ripping off in Crash 3, for God's sake. The swimming stage where it's like a maze that keeps flinging you back towards the start again. Like maybe one of the better examples of that kind of gameplay, because that usually sucks, but here it's so kind of brief and it's almost puzzle-like, and it's one of the few puzzles. in the game as well. Also, just one thing to mention is, I think stage three with that water maze has such a gorgeous cloud background. Oh, the orange and purple clouds? That's cool. Yeah, man,

the artwork is provocative. I'm kind of a sucker for collapsing ruins stage as well, so I really like that one. I also like the one in the Jungle Book game, but we'll get to that another day if we ever do the Disney Dregs, which I fully intend to, listeners. The library stage

is, as I think Thomas has maybe be written here the best, maybe the best stage because... At least in my opinion. I mean, I find that hard

to disagree with it. There's a lot of cool stuff going on in that stage. When you've got a lot as Mickey's sort of been not sort of formally shrunk down

but he's really wee and he's running around on books and stuff and it's really cute and you go in a teacup and you fight the bookworms and you fight the letters

walking around, letter A is coming after you. Yeah, it's really cute. What about the stage was all like spinning gears and everything? That's the last one. That always reminded me of, yeah, that's what I was going to say.

Oh, sorry, I jumped on your point. Yeah, yeah, I jumped on you there. Sorry, I apologize. No, that's right. I mean, so I'm not alone in thinking that then. That's good. No, I mean, I didn't really make that connection until relatively recently when I was playing the master's-system one again. I was like, hang on a minute.

Now, what I will say, now the premise of this game, and just not that it matters, is that, you know, Minnie Mouse is being kidnapped by Miserabelle, who's jealous of her beauty for some reason, because she looked exactly like Mickey, but just never mind. I never really thought about that before. It's really strange. She's like, I want to look like a mouse, too. Yeah. But anyway, then Ms. Rebell being this kind of, as I mentioned, the old lady from Sleeping Beauty,

but she transforms into a closer to Maleficent, but not actually Maleficent, which is kind of weird. You'd think it would just be maleficent, but then maybe that would be confusing. I mean, they often did that in the game, just have enemies look like, Disney characters, but not quite so. Yeah, yeah. I saw on one of the wikis that it says that the boss for the clock tower is the giant from

Mickey and the Beanstalk, but it's not. I mean, I don't know why they said that. There is a bit of a likeness, but that's it. It's very, very, very mild likeness. I think the only likeness is they're both humans, that's about it. Although the dragon boss in stage four, yeah, it does look a bit like that, from that one Disney dragon movie, I forgot

the English name of... The Reluctant Dragon or Pete's Dragon. I think so. Yeah, it doesn't look a bit like Pete's Dragon. There is a certain likeness, but still. Yeah, yeah, that's a good one. It's its own thing. I mean, I've always wanted to kill Pete's dragon, so, I mean, that's nice. There you go.

Yeah. The bosses in this game in general are kind of just like, I mean, none of them are that difficult, but they're all kind of cool and fun. That first one, though, that really is, that feels like prototype to Kirby. It could be, yeah, with a prototype for Whispy Woods, because, you know, we've talked about it on Retronauts before, but Kirby's hatred of that tree is just like beyond me.

I don't, I really don't get it. It spans generations. He's just walking along. He really hates that tree. Yeah, he doesn't even need to go to the tree. He's just like, I've finished World One. I'll just leave. Oh, hang on, I just see that tree.

I've got to go and kill it just a minute. And the tree is just desperately trying to make him go away by blowing at him. Sorry, I won't get into it again. It just fascinates me. It really does. Now, my personal approach to this one, my opinion of this one,

that I came from the Master System one. I think this game is quite slow. That doesn't mean it's bad. I think you move slowly and it feels slow. Once I find myself adjusted to it, it's fine. But when I first start playing it, I'm usually like, oh my God, I forgot how slow this is. Because the Master System one is like maybe twice as fast. I think the term is deliberate.

It is deliberate, yes. But also, you move in slow motion, okay? Like, when Mickey jumps in the air. Especially in the PAL version, of course. Especially in the Pell version, which I thankfully have never experienced. But that's not to say it's bad. It's a game that requires an adjustment to its pace, I think, and that usually takes a level or two.

I think that there's a more arcade-y feel to this game than there is the Masters. I think it's more knockabout. You can take more hits, and it doesn't matter. There's more items to collect, and there's more opportunities to heal and stuff. But also in this game, I think you have... want to say five health by default. Yeah.

And in the master system one, you absolutely don't have that. So that's a factor. That's a factor as well. But I'm not going to make that comparison too much, although where else would I make it? This is the place to make that comparison. Well, when we talk more about the master system.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. So for me, what this feels like is the, just a different take on that game, though that's not correct, obviously. I think it's very, very, I think it feels very different. I think it plays very differently, but I do think it's very good. I like it a lot.

I have one nitpick, though, that I always have to take with this game. And it's the vine swinging. Okay. It's a little bit dodgy, yeah. It's the way they implemented it. I don't know why is it causes the camera to sort of update at the same rate

as like the character sprites. So it basically scrolls like it's like 15 frames per second. Even though the game is not actually running that slow, it's just however they opted to do that vine trick. looks terrible. It's also a little bit weird jumping on the vine sometimes. It's not quite right. It just, I don't know what, something went wrong with that.

Like, the idea is interesting and fine, but it just doesn't look good in motion. I think, I think it's okay. I think, yeah, the fact that it's one of the earlier levels and then never happens again is nice, because he gets it out the way, I suppose. But, uh, I mean, that kind of goes along with the whole, uh, unique mechanics per stage thing, right? Where they just implemented that for that stage. It's maybe not as polished as it should be, but it only happens there. So you're like, okay, well...

Yeah. Now, talking sort of availability of this game, it was obviously a big game on the, on the Mega Drive. and, you know, it must have sold well. It did. It was a top seller for many months. It was also repackaged in a collection with Quackshot as well, which is the one that I have myself. But it was also re-released on the Saturn with Quackshot in Mickey Mouse, Disney Mickey on disc, which is crazy to think about.

That's right. When I find out that happened and I'm like, oh, my God, are there any extras or anything? It turns out pretty much no. It's just the game on a disc. along with Quackshot, which is, you know, nice, but it's also exactly the same as the cartridge. So it raises the question, what's the point? It doesn't matter that much.

I never understood that release, to be honest. I think it was Japan only. It is. It's part of their Sega Ages line, which they did. That's when Sega Ages kind of became a thing during that era. And a lot of those conversions were amazing, right? Like, Arcade Perfect or even beyond Arcade Perfect, like Outrun had a 60 FPS mode.

Fantasy Stars also great. Yeah, Fantasy Stars is good on there. Afterburner, too. I'm not that familiar with the Saturn line of Sega Ages. I know the PlayStation 2 line when it was rubbish and then became good, but I don't really know that. Yeah, when M2 got on board. Yeah, pretty much. Exactly.

So the Sega Saturn version of Sega Ages, that started off, there was a fair number of games. They basically had like Space Harrier, Outrun, After Burner 2, Fantasy Zone, there was columns, there was Power Drift, Galaxy Force 2, and then of course, I love Mickey Mouse. and all of these games came out. Most of them I would say the arcade ports, except for PowerDrift and Galaxy Force, which look arcade perfect, but run at 30 frames per second. All the other ones are basically arcade perfect or better.

That's good. Outrun Arcade runs at 30, but the Saturn version has the option for 60 FPS gameplay and an arranged soundtrack, right? Okay, that's kind of wild. I have to check the sound. And in fact, Space Area Outrun and After Burn a 2 were packaged together for the U.S. market,

and I think Europe as well, but working designs put out the US version and it's just Sega 80s collection so it's really really cool I've got to say real quick because again it's tangentially relevant but I recently I went on one of my desperation

kind of Japanese PSN PS3 sessions because there are so many goddamn games on that thing that are going to get locked away forever and I had a few yen left over in my like basket or whatever it's called my wallet and I was like I'm just going to get Galaxy Force 2 because

I don't, there's nothing else I can afford and I might be good because it's a, and I've played it briefly before and didn't think it was amazing. Yeah, exactly. So I launched this M2 version of Galaxy Force 2 and I have my ass blown off. Like, I'm just like, holy shit. So good. Yeah. It's insane. That new version they did, that widescreen, like, a remixed version with the, oh man, that's incredible. Yeah, it's wild. So I recommend anyone who has access to a Japanese PlayStation 3 account. But you can do it on any PSS. there is a disc version as well of course for PS2 oh really I did not know that

that's the version I got actually of course there is there's a disversion of PS2 right right of course there is I forgot it was an emulated PS2 game that makes it even god it would be even better on a PS2 it's really it's so good so good so yeah if you have a PS3 and a Japanese account for the PS3 get on there because there's so many cool Sega games you can still buy and they're going to be gone soon seriously they're going to go don't don't let don't sit on this Spend all your money on yen. Do it now. Okay. Anyway, do we have anything else to say about the I guess the final thing I want to raise here is actually the music composer.

Oh, yes, of course. Kamiya's like Shigenori Kamiya, who is actually a musician, famous for synth work. Oh, good. And produce some albums and such in Japan and among other things. And they took the role on this project and kind of delivered a very, um, evocative score that feels decidedly Disney-like, but also kind of its own thing, because it really

leans in, of course, the synth of the Mega Drive. And it sounds great, I think. I think, I find, now again, making this comparison, but to me, it sounds unusual because it's a more atmospheric, less melodic version of the tunes that I'm familiar with, because the master system has the same

basic melodies, but doesn't have quite so much in the way of the atmospheric stuff, the more the stuff that draws you in. So while it is to, like, atmospheric, mostly it's just kind of hummable, whereas this is more kind of like, whoa, hello, here we go. It's very noticeable in the final boss where the mega, the master's one goes into a tune, and this one is almost dissonant, like scary, like noise, it's good, it's really good.

I should probably mention as well that this has been re-released on, well, it was part of the pre-order bonus on PS3 for the Castellusion remake, and you can't get that version now in any way, unless you who pre-ordered it in that window, which is really annoying because it's an M2 emulation. I do have that on my PS3. That's right. You're very fortunate because I certainly don't.

You can also now get it on the Mega Drive Mini. I'm not sure if that's still available though. It was on there along with, yeah, it was on there along with World of Illusion, which was the first time that they'd been re-released like that, I think. Honestly. I think it was the first time World had been re-released. I would say, Stu, if

somebody's listening to this podcast that probably the most weirdly affordable way or at least enjoy a way to get it is just to buy the original cartridges. Which is very affordable. Yeah, they will not set you that much. They are not that expensive. All the games we're going to talk about today

with the exception of one won't cost you that much money, basically. They all sold very well. There's a ton of copies out there and they're not rare, so... Yeah, and they're really, really good. You might want to get them. So, sorry, Thomas, we're going to say something else,

won't you? Yeah, I want to share one more observation because I just looked over my Mega Drive collection and I have pretty much all of them in a chronological order up here. And when I look at what comes before Castle of Illusion, I would also say most of these games are very

to very, very difficult. Right, right. And Castle of Illusion is not an easy game, but it's much more approachable than stuff like, for example, Super Shinobi or stuff like ghouls and ghost. Oh my God. Ghostbusters, stuff like that.

Mystic defender. So I think this is also for sake of a big step into such a great game. That's good. Isn't that like the sort of sequel to Spellcast of the Mars system?

Yep, it is. Oh man, that's so cool. That's so cool. I want to get that. Also, man, Cass of Illusion came out right around the same time

as Thunder Force 3 and the Port of Strider. That's wild. Good times. Yeah, holy shit. Seriously, yeah. What a good month. Also, close to Shadowdancer.

I want to say something on here because it's just admired in me. I mean, I'm jealous that you've got Ghostbusters because that game's weirdly expensive now. Is it?

It pisses me off. It's not even rare. It's not even that good. Just like, come on, sell me for like a five or someone. Let's go. It's a compile game. Do you know that? Really? That explains it. It's a compile game. Okay, that explains everything. But speak of Godfels, quick aside, did you know that there is a modern version right now that puts in Winston?

I did, I did. I did see it. Yeah, and improves the gameplay in general, yeah. It's pretty good. Thank you, CD-Romanse. But if you download that mono version, remember people, don't keep it for more than 24 hours. You have to delete it. I think it's fair to say, though, that we've kind of talked enough about this original game, how simple it is. I think we all agree as well that it's fantastic. solid little platformer and still worth playing today. But then we come to the game that's due, you've been referencing many times already.

I can't help it. I can't help it. Yeah. Castle of Illusion for the Sega Master System slash Game Gear in 1991. Yeah. And so again, this is an interesting one because the master system, at least in North America, it was basically dead at this point. I would say replaced with the game gear.

Yeah. You know? This game was released in the U.S. on cartridge. I have a copy. And yeah, it must be one of the final, like, legit releases. Yeah, I feel like the early 90s that we were starting to see, like, the end of Master System largely. It's a shame because it could have been bigger. And the thing about this game that I think's worth starting off with before we get into more about it, is that when you look at it, you think this is the type of game that the Master System needed.

Like, visually, gameplay-wise, this is something that feels like an enhanced, NES game in many ways. Like, the colors are more pleasing. It feels like this weird middle child between a 16-bit machine and, like, the NES. In a way, that early Master System stuff really didn't. It wouldn't look out of place as an early Megadrive game, to be honest. I agree. You know, just add some scrolling backgrounds, and it would be fine on there.

I mean, it even has some nice, nice crawling effect. That's true. It does. The title screen is gorgeous. That looks like a megadry game. The satellite screen whips ass. Yeah, it's insane. I love it.

I mean, I can't be objective about this game. and what nor would I want to be. It's so important to me. I mean, there was so many years of my life when I would say, this is my favorite game of all time. If anyone asked me, it's this. Oh, man.

I mean, it's my favorite classic game of all time. My favorite game of all time is now the binding of Isaac, but this is my favorite classic game. And on a nice day when someone asks me, on certain days, I will just say, yeah, it's cast a illusion on the master system. Now, I don't think that's an exaggeration.

I think that's a reasonable view to hold because this game is perfect. There are no problems with this game. I'm not, I'm not, there are no errors, there are no glitches that I've noticed, there are no bad levels or bad bits of the levels, I think it's just spot on, like, it's just a really, really good game. Yeah, it's, it's short, it's six levels and you're not getting any more than that, but those levels are kind of big, those levels, some of them have multiple routes to them, there are

secrets everywhere, unlike in the Mega Drive game I want to add, which doesn't have that many secrets at all. Yeah, and this is not just going to be me dumping on the Megadryph game, okay? Yeah, it's just a different kind of game. Now, mechanically, the difference is, while you still have the butt bounce on the master system, it's activated in the way I mentioned earlier, button two, then button one. On the game gear, I think they fixed that and made it so it's just button two twice again. But what you can do here is you can pick things up and throw them. You don't have any marbles to throw, but if you find, like, say, a brick or a block, you can pick it up and you can throw enemies.

The same with the treasure chest you'll find lying around which have items in them. All the items, except for the gems and the power stars, are in treasure chests. and they're everywhere. They're also invisible ones that will only appear if you do a butt-bounce attack where they are. And they are,

I'm pretty certain I know where they all are, but I can't be 100% certain, which is annoying. God, this game, I can't even know. So in my mind, I've always thought about this

in a weird way. You remember how Capcom would release things like Strider in the arcade, and then you get this different NES game. They love to release NES versions of arcade games that were very different.

That's what this game feels like to me, where if the Genesis Mega Drive version is an arcade game and it feels like one with its pacing and set piece design, this feels like the 8 bits NES slash Master System version of that game. The more home consoley game. Right? Yeah. I really think it does. I mean, for me, like, I'm trying to make that kind of, I can't think of it that way because it's just so. Backwards, I know. I can't.

Well, thinking about the way that the Mega Drive game changes up, its visual. by dividing its levels into sort of separate sections. This game changes up its visuals without dividing the levels up. Even stage one, you go from a brightly lit forest under the ground into a cave, then down further into a dark forest. What the hell? What's going on there? And it really does create that sense of like you're in an illusion,

you're in a bizarre environment that makes no sense. And it does it without having this in-between kind of hub thing that the, well, not a hub, but just like a corridor you walk along. Here, no, I'm talking crap, you do have a hub. It's the exact opposite of what I said. It's incredibly basic, but it's just literally three doors. So you go through these doors. You can choose which one you go through initially,

which you can't do on Mega Drive instantly. So you can go to the forest. You can go to the toy factory. Or you can go to the dessert stage, as I'm going to call it. Which finally has some music from the third Megadrive stage. Yeah, the chocolate, which is, so that's the music. That's what that music is to me. It's the chocolate factory theme.

It doesn't sound totally at all to me, but anyway. Yeah, exactly. That's always going to be the case. But even as early as the toy factory, the game is introducing like puzzle elements where, for example, you have to, I got stuck on this as a kid. This is what I couldn't get past. There's a bit where you need to use a barrel that you throw to stand on a barrel to reach the clouds that are being puffed out by a toy train that you can stand on. I didn't, I couldn't figure that out as a child. I didn't know you can stand on them. And even after that, you've got, you suddenly start finding keys that open locked doors. and things like that. God, the toy factory level is a tour de force on this game because it's got so many routes through it with different enemies you'll only see if you go on certain roots. Like, I've played this game hundreds of times and there are genie enemies that I almost never see

because I never go in that way, you know? Like, there are just short-cut secrets. You can skip half this level by going through a hidden wall at one point. Oh, my God, I love it. You've got so many different enemies on every single level. Like, you've got the trees, you've got the flowers, you've got the bats you've got the caterpillars it just doesn't it just keeps going and going like

there's so much to enjoy the on every stage i just want to gush about it it's that good it's perfect it has no flaws you should definitely play this game i mean i'm serious like i cannot think of anything bad to say about it maybe like the idea that on the latest stages the gems you're supposed to collect that there are two in the fourth and fifth stages uh one of which is hidden in the level and if you miss it you've got to go through again but they're really easy to find and i don't really have a problem with that personally i suppose if you were a high score guy you could infinitely loop the level though so that's that's a fun option but everything to me here feels so much tighter that it's almost like the way that sonic is portrayed on the megadrive

versus the mast system because sonic on the megadrive is quite knockabout like the way i see megadrive class of illusion, but mass system cast evolution is tight. Like, it's a real linear like test of your skills. It's not super hard, but it's definitely harder. There are plenty of hidden lives and things, but

there are so many like extra things you can find, extra routes you can take, and it's just, I think it's the better game. I really do. Taking it as it is for what it is and taking into account all the cool stuff that's going on here, to me it's the better game. I mean, which one,

The fight with Miserabelle on this game is prefaced by a fight with a dragon that takes up almost the whole screen and is really, really cool and challenging. And the Miserabelle fight. really creative as well, where you're using these torches. When you're holding them, they light up the screen,

but when you're not holding them, everything's pitch black. You can't see what you're doing. And you have to use that as a projectile, so you're constantly going in and out of the darkness. While these projectiles are on screen trying to kill you, while Miserbell is trying to fly out of your way, it's just really, really cool, you know?

Absolutely, I agree. Sorry, I know I gushed a lot there, but it's that good. I love it that much. It makes me so happy this game. Yeah, it's just wonderful. just here's people being happy about games again these days because as you know we talked about that yeah we're drowning in sadness these days

yeah let's go there okay I will say one thing about it I'm going to give it a mild criticism which is that the boss of the toy factory level is a rip-off of the yellow devil from Mega Man 100% a rip-off though it's incredibly easy by comparison obviously but it does the exact same attack pattern

more or less so one thing I want also to share one thought is I think it's amazing what Sega still put into the master system at that time when it was basically dead in the two biggest markets because they had good people sitting on these games making really good games instead of just watered down megadrive parts

that look a bit worse and play a bit worse these are really, really good games and I mean this is just one of many I mean I checked those names people are working on that and you can see them in many exclusive eight-bit games I mean a lot of these people went to make that asterisk game for example which is really good

which you and I just played through recently Thomas and I was quite, I had never finished that game before but it's surprising great. Yeah, that's just what I love about Sega at the time. They don't just

drop the Masters to like it's contagious. That's also Sega made one of my favorite Jurassic Park games, which is

of course the Game Gear Master System version, which is better than most of the Western developed games. We talked about

that on the Jurassic Park episode of Retronauts, and I also wrote about that in the Game Gear

directly thought I do recently, and it's really, okay, the Jurassic Park on the Game Gear and the Master System is so weird

because it's like It's like a tordive force of visuals for this machine. It's at these machines. It's crazy how impressive it is. But then you'd think the gameplay almost would maybe suffer. But it's really fun to play it as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It has those shooting segments initially,

but then you get into the platforming and exploration. And again, it's another one of those Sega 8-bit bangers that they... The screwed-up thing is, it's probably, to me, it's probably still the best drastic part game ever made. I really can't think of what I like better. Something will come around that I've forgotten, probably, but it's just a really, really good. I think it was just that

these times when Sega had these designs in the work, a master system 8-bit games who could maybe just do interesting stuff and were not bound down by corporate bullshit and tight deadlines maybe and they're just, okay, we are free, nobody will buy our game anyway, let's be do something cool. I mean, the system was doing well

in Europe, but still popular in Europe. I don't know how I did in Japan. I mean, if it was... I'm miserable. Really? That's a shame. Yeah. Okay. I know it was Mark 3, wasn't it, before the Master System, but I don't know if the Master's

and stuff made it over there. It's a shame because we, I mean, we're not even done with the Master System kicking out. You know, there are still great games to come, even in, like, 92, 93. And just for nothing to keep in mind, these games didn't even come out in Japan, mostly. Astridx never made it to Japan, for example. Yeah, you're right. I mean, for me, I remember when I was a kid and I was finishing these games,

and the name I would see in the credits was Yoshio Y. Yeah. And I remember being like, I don't know who you are, Yosei, but you make some fucking good games, man. If you even are, man, I don't know. I don't know. I checked him out. I think I wrote him in our notes somewhere. What else he did?

Yeah, yeah. He's worked on tons of stuff that I loved, tons. Actually, and yeah, another one of the planners, I guess, on it, or one of the designers on this game did a bunch of other stuff, including the master system conversion of Moonwalker. Worked in Asterix as well. worked on 8-bit Sonic the Hedgehog 2, the second Asterix game, and then would go on to work on Clockwork Night 2 on the Saturn. Asterix on the master system, when you play it, is like, okay, yeah, this is Custlevision. Like, this is the same part.

It feels exactly like it, yeah. I don't like it as much because it's a bit more fiddly, but it is a great game. So one thing I wanted to mention, though, that I would just remember back in the day, they used to air a commercial on TV in America showing the game gear off, right? Yeah. And I did, I did eventually get a Game Gear. A friend of mine had one, and he actually did have this game. I didn't get to play through it on there, but the thing that stuck out to me is I used to pay attention to these commercials.

In the commercial, the first thing they show is Castlevillusion for the game gear, playing on a Game Gear screen, but they showed the Genesis version. Oh, you can't do that. And I saw the parallax scrolling, and as a kid, I was obsessed with parallax scrolling, and it's not in the game. And I was like, what's going on? Where's the Parallax scrolling? That's real disgusting. It's one of those stupid things where you're just like,

what's cool? Like, why do I remember this or why do I even think about this? But I believe it was they just showed the Genesis game as a Game Year game. Yeah, I wouldn't put it past them, yeah. I will know real briefly

that the Game Gear version, because I've been talking about the Master System version, but the Game Gear version is, it's almost exactly the same. There are a few graphical changes, and obviously the screen estate isn't as big,

but it's perfectly playable. It's very, very, good version. It's almost, the way I see it is it's like, I don't know, like a cast of illusion version 1.1 like it's just a little bit more polished maybe because of those graphical changes that make the treasure chest look a bit more standout.

But also is one of the gaming games that I'm reasonably saw runs in Master System mode. So I think it actually is just the Master System version slightly changed. Right, yeah. But I don't have any way of confirming that. I just know that that's the mode it runs in. Because when I was trying to emulate it for the GameGerman actually, I was having

a lot of trouble sorting it out because it's game gear rom that boots into master system mode and i was like why is this happening that's right it's a weird one in that regard but the main difference i know is that they changed colors around because the the game gear has an expanded color palette i think it's like 4,096 colors available it's yeah it's much in very master system is less so so they were basically able to tweak some of the different colors and the game looks slightly different in some stages as a result it's it's very it is quite minor though it's it's it's only just like the treasure chest have been redesigned and some other things have slight tweaks basically there's not much to it but it's a great game still

Indeed. So I think that that kind of covers that one off. I think I could go on about every single one individually, but I don't blame you. It's good stuff. Come on, the boss, the boss, that's a clock. How cool is that? The clock boss? Oh my God. Okay, I'm done now. I'm done. Okay, just anybody listening get that game somehow because it's very cheap. It's worth every cent and it's a lot of. Yeah, exactly. It's quite cheap. So, especially the European version, it's nothing. You get it.

Okay. So actually, after the Castle of Illusion on Mega Drive, that team went on to produce Quackshot, which we're not going to cover here today, but that's another great Disney game starring Donald Duck. Yeah, stay tuned for Donald Duck episode coming eventually. But following that game, they went on to do a sequel to Castle of Illusion with World of Illusion. starring Mickey and Donald. Starring Mickey and Donald. And there's a good reason it specifies that, because this game becomes a two-player co-op game, if you choose.

And it has the two playable characters, Mickey and Donald. And that's also something that Capcom would do with the magical quest game, starting with the second one, the Great Circus mystery. And then the third one, which is the best of those three that only came out in Japan at the time, is also Mickey and Donald. And the thing about this one, though, is that they clearly decided to try to make a different sort of game. Would you guys agree that you can feel that it's a spiritual successor to Castlevillusion? But there's much greater focus, even more so than the original, on sort of a set piece-based flow. It's all about impressing the player with, I would say, phenomenal visual quality, like just the level of detail in the animations, in the sprite work. the background detail, it's all taken to the next level, and it looks incredible.

But it also plays rather differently. Would you guys agree? Yeah. 100%, yeah. Yeah, I mean, you're not jumping on enemies anymore for a start. No, you're whipping them with a towel, like, in the loophon. It's weird. Exactly.

Yeah. But it's very well animated towel. It's extremely, I mean, everything in this game looks astonishing, especially when you're playing it on a proper CRT, the way it's meant to be. Yeah, I was just doing that today. And, like, I was like, man, this. looks just insanely good even now. Yeah, especially

this about it looking beautiful. I think one thing that really sticks out are the foreground object in many stages. But you don't see that often in games at that time. It's just a constant constant parade of just astonishing looking visuals. And I think the big

difference between this one and Castle Volusion is that they really moved away from the tile-based look. Like Castle of Illusion has this like squared off tile like look, which is a very competent platform games of the era, where clearly World of the Illusion is trying to make the backgrounds look like almost hand-painted. And it works, yeah.

It does. It's almost like a precursor to the kind of stuff you'd see later in games like Earthworm Gym or Pitfall to Mind Adventure, where it's like this more drawn-looking thing, but this came first. I think the game looks so, this is going to sound like a strange criticism, but I think the game looks so good that the few brief moments when it doesn't are really, really jarring. but then again

that's a weird criticism I know but like there are stages in this game that I think about and I just kind of go like how could a human being have drawn this the first stage the stage where you're on the magic

the flying carpet the frigging Christmas tree stage insane oh no the magic carpet looks great you're saying yeah no that's what I mean yeah yeah yeah they all look incredible like but then you've got the occasional

bits where it's like say that the text that comes up in the on the is just like kind of weirdly jarring and there's like a level where you're kind of just on some shelves that is just really weird and plain but then right after that some caves

yeah then right after that you're straight back into gorgeous stuff again it's a very minor criticism I would say the shelf stage while perhaps less impressive there's still a lot of detail in it and it kind of reminds me more of Castle Volusion though it has this nice extra

perspective thing going on everywhere you know to give it sort of a pseudo 3D look so it's it's all it's all it's all it all looks very good it's just a very minor thing really very minor but um as far as the game itself is concerned the main differences come from the sort of controls in the way you attack you already mentioned sort of the towel whipping right the magical but the other big change is that it now has a running feature yeah and you move about as fast as you did in the original cast of illusion when you're running and that's an interesting choice because the default walking speed in this is really slow, but it has this look of like, it's like

Mickey looking around, like he's concerned about what's happening. He's like, ooh, consciously. Yeah, a lot of character in these animations. It's very, very good. And then when he runs, it's kind of like, what I would say is Mickey Mania style that would come much later, but it's like, you know, that running with your arms outstretched towards the screen kind of look. Well, the thing that I find about this is what it does is it creates a feel of chaos and

panic in a weird way. Like, the fact that Donald gets his massive ass stuck underneath, like, when you're just climbing under stuff and Mickey has to pull him out, it creates this idea that you're just kind of in over your head. And I think it's, like, you know, stuff like Mickey having to pull Donald up and vice versa when you climb up gaps and things. And the fact, the way you run with your arms out, like you're freaking out as well, the fact that we can hit each other with the towels and wrap each other up momentarily,

It just makes it all feel like Mickey and Donald, while they are friends, they're also kind of at odds in a weird, funny way. And it does give the game a lot of character. So would you guys disagree if I said the game has a rather adventure vibe? I agree. With its set pieces and the slower pacing? Yeah, I absolutely agree with that. I mean, there's some stuff I don't adore.

For example, like, I'm not just whinging, I swear I do like this game, but there were at least a couple of bits where at the end of the level you'll have a bunch of choices and only one of them is right and the other ones will dump you back to earlier in the level and I don't know if there's a way

you're actually supposed to know that or if it is just trial and error it's the same with the doors towards the end of the game where we're going in certain doors will send you just to replay old levels again and it almost feels like padding yeah that feels very padding

and yet weirdly enough despite being padding even if you go through every single one of the wrong doors like I did the game is still only about 25 minutes long. And there's nothing wrong with that. I like short games. It's fun that you get off that you can just blast through it, you know. And my abiding memory of playing this game is just not being able to understand why the graphics were so good. I don't know how they could do this. The final boss, the Big P, is just amazing when it's played on a CRT. It just looks absolutely

outstanding. But I also must admit, it's a game I didn't buy it back in the day when it came out. I mean, I loved the first Castle of Illusion. I loved Crackshot, but somehow it didn't grabbed my attention. I borrowed it once from a video center and gave it a try, but it never made me want to buy it because maybe my taste has had changed since then, but it's also

it's a bit short, a bit simple, and I want something different. I only got it later then. Well, but hey, at least it's better than Fantasia. I mean, what isn't? I, oh, don't even get me started on that shitty fucking game. Sorry, swearing. Jesus Christ, that game's

so bad. And they must have tricked so many people into thinking it would be good as well, because it was after the cost of illusion. I mean, just a quick, quick about Fantasia. It's still so cheap in the second-hand market, even though it was removed from the shelves by Disney, from what I heard.

So they must have sold a lot of these things. Poor, poor people. Friend of mine bought it. I become a Mega Drive collector in the sort of I buy loose carts mostly. I don't really care that much about having complete... I just want to have the games to play. I'm not buying Fantas. Tasia, but no way.

Don't want to play it. They don't want to look at it. I want to think about it. It's that bad. It's so bad, and it's so obviously bad from the first screen of the game as well. I mean, it should be evident that it was developed by a Western studio.

InfoGrom worked on. And never really finished. Not really finished either, because they needed to get it out in time. But yes, World of Illusion is significantly better than that, and definitely worth playing it. One thing I want to flag up real quick, if I'm not interrupting you,

sorry. this game is quite impressive in the sense that while it is clearly a co-op game at its heart if you play it as Mickey alone or Donald alone you will see some different levels there are levels that are only in co-op mode as well and that's really cool and that's what you can do if you have 8 megabit instead of 4 as the first games and again that's what Capcom did with their Mickey games as well with the co-op play and that's that really uh i don't know why that became a thing from two separate developers but i like it in this case yeah yeah yeah it's it's nice i mean that it didn't stick with it

really but the thing that they did it they did a magical quest but so one of the things though that makes this really interesting the co-op play is like um how one player can assist the other right like you can donald can like lower donald mickey can lower like a rope and help the other one climb up a platform or pull him out from under a thing on his massive askance Which makes it great for playing with somebody who's maybe less experienced at these sorts of games because you can kind of help each other out in a way that's really fun. I mean, I've got to say, like, this game's, like, absurdly easy overall, even easier than the castle, I would say.

The only thing that does make it challenging is if the other player is screwing with you. But there's very little in the way of actual credible sort of threats here. Even the final boss is laughably easy. I think there are a few interesting. that there's situations but not too many. Donald Duck has that one stage where he's on the River Rapids which is a bit of another there. That's what I was thinking about

exactly. But yeah even like there's a incredible, there's a stage I absolutely love in this game where you go into a sunken like abandoned ship and it's all full of like tyke spaces and stuff and then the boss is like a swordfish that has an actual saw for a nose I think

or a shark or something similar like that. I forget if there's a shark or swordfish. Yeah sword shark that'll do. um yeah it's it's a great game uh after each level you gain some kind of new spell but they're not actually have much gameplay it's mostly just the thing you do at the beginning of each level um like there's the one you get that let you summon the magic carpet so you can do it at that stage and that's an incredible looking stage as we've mentioned it does feel like a big sort of a step up from cast of illusion but in the quest to make it co-op the levels do feel a bit

wider in a way, like, there's not as much going on. There's not as many, like, enemies and things, but it's still great. It's still definitely a recommended Mega Drive game, in my opinion. I agree. I agree. So, I think we can all basically say that this one is perhaps not as memorable of a game as the prior to, but it sure does look beautiful and it's still worth playing, and it's cheap. Again, it's very cheap. Yeah, it's, it's, it's worth mentioning, I think, that it does repeat some bits from cost of illusion. Like, there's another spider web stage and there's not necessarily a bad thing

it's just it's pretty worth much it's just a nice throwback I think I mean you have even because the clown boss from the first game is coming back as a regular enemy here it's smaller but he's in there that's right um this one didn't really get any ports outside of the megadrive mini though did it no I don't it's the only place it's the only time it's been

re-released yeah which is wild but I don't understand why they never did a collection honestly but you know probably Disney licensing stuff. Most likely. Although nowadays,

if they have who wanted. If they're to do the eclipse wants to, maybe, you know, I'm sure they're trying like hell, to be honest. And just, so I got to throw it out there just for fun,

but for those that weren't, weren't sure, the Japanese title of this was, I love Mickey and Donald, the mysterious magic box. I mean, fitting title. It's what it's about.

Yeah. I mean, there's something. One more thing I like about the game, by the way, quickly to imagine that. There's this nice effect when they disappear behind

some sheets, and you only see the shadows, and that's a nice effect. Yeah, that's really cool. That's quite towards the end of the game, isn't it? Yeah, that starts happening a lot. Yeah, that's a cool effect, yeah. I mean, another remarkable thing, that there are so many enemies, sprites. Like, there's so many different types of enemies in this game. I mean, you eventually start to meet stuff from the Alice in Wonderland Disney movie, like the Card Soldiers and Madhatcher turns up and stuff. Yeah, I think that one of the bosses is the witch from Sword of the Stone,

I might be misremembering that. Yeah, it is, yeah. Awesome game. And, yeah, it has weird six-legged spider for a boss as well. Oh, yeah. We're with wearing gloves, wearing gloves, six-de-lecks. Oh, the one that crawls on the foreground and background layer? Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, that's pretty neat looking. That looks good. But let's move on because we're... I mean, I'm amazed we've managed to get an hour out of those games, to be honest. But next up in 1992, back on the 8-bit again, the master system and game game game. Land of Illusion. That's another banger. Land of illusion starring Mickey Mouse, another banger.

There are a lot of people who prefer this to Castle, and I kind of respect that opinion, but I disagree with it. If only because this is a game that is so much longer or more involved that you would struggle to do it in one sitting, maybe. Yeah, it's a pretty big game. I really like this one, though. I think this one is phenomenal. Yeah, there's so much going on.

We played it again on the Endlock Pocket these days. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I've played this again recently as well. Yeah, it's excellent. It really is excellent. Just looking at the game. Again, it could be a good 16-bit game.

In many ways, it comes close, yes. Yeah. But it basically builds on the last game, though, and mechanically. Unlike World of Illusion, this feels like a direct sequel to Castle Illusion. There are more like, there's more animation frames. There's more of everything, basically. It's awesome one-off situations with the snake in the first level, where you just throw the apple to the snake's mouth, the snake close its mouth,

it's happy and you walk on. This is one screen you will see for a few seconds, and they're put in so much work for that. Yeah, yeah. The snake's, like, coiled around this tree, and you're running up its back. It's really cool. But that's what makes this game stand out to me

is, okay, first of all, it's even harder. This is actually quite a hard game. Yeah, that one's tough. The levels are completely rammed the guilds with gimmicks in a good way. There is constantly weird shit happening and clever stuff, even stuff that I've not seen again in any other game.

Like, there's also an overall map now that you can walk around on and revisit levels in case you want to go back and collect hidden stuff because there's actual progression of this game. You collect items that give you not powers, but like you get a shrinking potion that lets you become small.

You get a climbing gear that lets you climb walls. And if you go back to old levels, once you've got that stuff, you will find stuff hidden in them. And just to clarify that, unlike the original games, which had sort of the door system, which retained the side-scrolling view, This one has an almost Mario World, Mario 3-esque overworld map where you kind of like just move your small character between the different maps and you go in, which is something I'm a big fan of, and I think that that is one of the reasons I really like this game. It's great.

I have to do it slightly more than the... I respect that. I can see why. Like, I genuinely can see why. I do think the nostalgia is a huge factor for me, but... I'm pretty sure that the design has played a lot of Mario World back in the day because you have many elements, you know. You have the Overworld map. You have stuff like you can, quit levels that you want. once with it after a certain point. Even the way they, like, do shading on, like, when you're in that underground area with the water, like, if you look at the rock formations, just, like, the way it's shaded and colored reminds me so much of Nintendo's Super NES work.

I do agree. I think there's definitely Mario World influence here. I mean, even all the way down to, like, the blocks that you switch on and off really remind me of Switch Palace blocks. So it's not, obviously, exactly the same. There are other comparisons. There's multiple exits to some of the stages, like, at least one of the stages. the water stage.

Yeah, the stage that changes when you've beaten the castle, the water level, essentially rises. Weird things like, if you use the... There are power stars hidden in Castle of Illusion and the Master System, which upgrade your health up to five maximum. There's only two of them. You start with three. You can get four.

The first one is in the toy factory, and the second one is in the clock tower. No, yes, the clock tower, excuse me. And in this game, there's one of those in like every stage. But you still can't go above fives, but it really is just for bragging rights, if you find all of them. You beat these also. You start just with two, and it's tough in the beginning. Yeah.

Yes, you start with two. I forgot about that. But yes. For example, they're hidden in really devious ways. Like, for example, the only way to get the one in the water stage is to beat the castle and come back. And then one of the areas of the water stage has been flooded with more water that then means you can get up in a little gap in the ceiling, keep swimming up, and you'll find it up there and where you couldn't get to before. there are some that you need to become the one on the flower field stage

needs you to become small Mickey and then bounce continuously on an enemy for almost half the level to the left until you find it on a random platform they're really devious and I love that they bothered it makes me happy that they bothered but no this game is definitely much much more challenging

than the first one. Another interesting thing that makes it even more challenging though is that unlike the first one this one does run And it has a proper game gear conversion that runs in the game gear resolution, which means it's spatially zoomed and cropped. So everything looks bigger on the screen, but you see less of the level. But I guess they tweak the colors as well. And honestly, just looking at it again, I think this looks better than pretty much anything that you could have seen on, say, the Game Boy. And I love the Game Boy, but this looks incredible.

Yeah. I mean, this is like, for the master system, this might be the best looking Master System game, apart from maybe Dress-It park, and even then I think it's a toss-up. Yeah, yeah. Game gear, however, game gear has a lot more competition. It does. It does. Yeah. Now, my criticism of this game, if I may, is there's a frigging boss, which is like a crab that is really, really hard. You have to, you're swimming underwater, so you've got

an air meter going. You have to throw a barrel at it, and you can only hit it in what seems like completely arbitrary times, and if you miss, he'll do this move where he creates world pools. You have to wait for ages and ages to attack him again and it's very easy to run out of time if you don't get the rhythm right. Other that air meter is caught me off guard for a few times and I started playing again because I forgot you have

to stay on the top of the water for a while to get the air meter full again. You don't just pop up, it's full, go back down, you have to wait. And if you've read about that, you're in for a bad time. The Master's first game in Castle of Illusion didn't have that. There were swimming sections but there's no air meter.

So no, Land of Illusion is essentially Castle of Illusion Master System sort of with knobs on it's like everything's been like And the Nintendo influence I mean they even have like freaking spike balls in the game

with like eyes which looks extremely Mario They look like Goddose, absolutely right, yeah The whole thing is very influenced by it Every stage there'll be something that is that you will make you go that's cool even now

there are gimmicks that I haven't seen reused like the there's an auto scroll except there are buttons on the screen that make this auto scroll go backwards So you need to stand on them Until they reveal the next button You'll need to press

But when you step off the one you're standing on The Autostrow will start going back to the way again So you're basically almost wrestling with the Autoscroll In a way that is so meta Yeah, that's beautiful game logic I've never seen anything like it Since it's just really cool And thoughtful

There's a stage where you're being chased by this fire guy Who leaves a trail of fire behind them Oh yeah, that one's great It's like really just, the game's full of stuff like that, full of it. There's even a bit where you need to use a gacha claw machine to pick up a key by standing on the switch for a long enough and then jumping off. And it's just full of ideas, constant ideas. Like they couldn't stop thinking of cool things and they kept making the game longer.

There's way more levels in this than a Rueaer in Castle. I almost feel like I would have liked to have seen this made for the Mega Drive at this point. Right? I mean, in a sense, yeah, but then I wouldn't have been able to play as a kid, so no. Okay, fair enough. still. I get that, yeah. I think from a pure game design perspective,

I do think this is better than World of Illusion. It's just a better platformer, and it's the kind of stuff that we didn't see that often on Mega Drive at that time. I think it's a shame that there was never a third Mega Drive illusion gang, so I think it could have been special. Yeah, I agree. Because what we did get instead was Mickey Mania, and I have a lot of problems with Mickey Mania.

Well, I mean, you could argue that World of Illusion was the third one, right? if you count quackshot. It's not technically Mickey Mouse, but it kind of is, right. But yeah, if you want, of course, that fairy tale mood, you don't get that with quackshot at an entirely different basis.

No, that's true. No, you get the Indiana Jones mood with a quack shot. It's a great game. I mean, I was quite a surprise to hear that it was directed by the same person because it's so different.

Like, I mean, it has a similar visual style, but that's about it, really. Yeah, the sad thing that person is doing Kingdom Hearts games nowadays. I mean, it's sad, but Kingdom Hearts rules, so it's not that sad.

Oh, if you're a Kingdom Hearts. Okay, you like it, all right. Yeah, I'm so I'm afraid I'm a Kingdom Hearts loser, yeah. All right, all right, all right. That's all right. We forgive you. Don't even, don't even. I've got my book coming on soon.

My book, All Games are good, please buy it. And the longest single chapter is on Kingdom Hearts 358 days over two. It's just drool. And it's just like pages and pages of just gushing about how much I love that game. I'm the only personal planet who likes the game that much, I think. Oh, good for you. So Land of Illusion, unfortunately is not the final eight-bit illusion game, because they did make one more, three years later, bafflingly,

which is Legend of Illusion starring Mickey Mouse which was kind of unceremoniously dropped because now I consider myself to be a huge fan of the Illusion series and I always was and I didn't know Legend of Illusion

existed until like emulation days Yeah in 1995 yeah But I had no idea this existed And I was absolutely fascinated This is how I found out about the master system being so popular in Brazil for so long because I was like

What do you mean there's a third illusion game No there isn't Didn't this get a master system really? like in Brazil or something? It did by a tech toy in ITA. Yeah, that's what I thought. I think it was just kind of a game

gear kind of port, but it was good. Yeah, I mean, I say it was good. It wasn't because Legend of Illusion is fine. It's a fine game, and in this series, that's not really good enough, you know.

It feels wrong. It just completely wrong. You threw marbles like you did in the Mega Drive one, but it feels wrong. It doesn't work. The level,

are designed awkwardly, so they keep flicking, like, flick-screening between like the higher view and the low of it. The camera keeps going up and down when you climb things and it's like really weird and wrong. The game's also really short, even compared to like the first one. And

the level design just isn't there. It's just not got any of the intricacy. It's not got the secrets. It's just, it's not good enough. It's fine. You can just see it's been outsourced. It's not made by the original team. So I think it was developed somewhat by Aspect, which did a lot

of stuff. They did Axe Battler. I like Aspect. I got a lot. I love that. They did some good stuff, so that's the thing. They made a good Bap and Returns game. They did. They worked on some of the Sonic games. Yeah, Sonic 2 on the master system, not the game gear, is very good, I think. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And Deep Duck Trouble, deep-dubble was fine,

you know? It was, but they also did the Virtue of Fighter animation game and Sonic Blast, if you remember that one, which is, uh, Sonic Blast is not good. No, it's not. It's not. it's a stinker. Didn't they make eventually... Am I thinking of ancient

who made Goddard protect us in the air? That was ancient, wasn't it? That was ancient, sorry. But they were associated with the mass system as well, right? They did the Sonic system. They did Sonic one. If you can't have one called an aspect and one called Ancient, it's too confusing.

Right, but... That's very different aspects of the ancients. Still, it's, you know, aspect they did some good work and... They did, they did. This just isn't as good as some of the other stuff they made. In the Game Gear Director, I've noted, like, you can tell when a game is made by aspect almost immediately,

because they use the same sound fonts and the same game feel. They made Coca-Cola Kid. That's a really good game. I don't know if anyone's played that one. A Japan-only platformer for the game gear that's advertising Coca-Cola, and for some reason, it's bafflingly really good. Still, I would say that Legend of Illusion at least looks good. Visually speaking, like it's very detailed and lots of shading and intricacy in the colors.

It's got the story sequences from Land of Illusion as well. There are some Disney kind of, like, you mean goofy in it and stuff, but it's just weird and not quite there. Still, you know, if you happen to get a copy of it, you probably wouldn't hate it. Yeah, it's not, no, it's not actually a bad game. It's just, no, it's very... And again, very affordable. Yeah, exactly. Is it?

I thought it was expensive this one. I mean, the master's in one definitely is for obvious reasons. Of course, yeah, but the game gear ones are affordable. I did not know that. I might have to grab that at some point. The Japanese one seems to be expensive, though. Oh, that's a shame. No surprise.

I think in the UK. it might be too expensive still, but I'll have to check. And, you know, you can't say that this is a bad game, considering that the next illusion game, which was God, how long, how much longer was this? Oh, man. Nearly 20 years later. Yeah, almost

yeah, 17 years later. Epic Mickey, Power of illusion. Now, I remember when this got announced, because I was really excited about it. Same. Same. Same. Because it's a 2D platform called Power of Illusion purposely, they were trying to get my attention. It looks great, and I'm like, oh my God, it's going to be amazing.

New Epic Mickey, Power of Illusion. They're going there, they're bringing back the Ovalusion thing. They know they're doing this for me specifically. It's being made by the people who made Henry Hatsworth, which kicked out, and Moths the tail, which was really shit. But doesn't matter because we know they can make a good game. And, no, it's garbage, unfortunately. It's really, really bad.

It's, I like Epic Mickey. I'm not going to pretend I don't. I think it's cool. Yeah, that's nice, yeah. I wish that the first one would get some kind of HD re-release, because it's that good. But no, it's locked to the Wii. No, I love my Wii, but come on.

That game deserves to look. HD, come on. But no, Epic Mickey Power of Illusion is a chore to play, an actual chore. As I wrote in the notes, it's boring with eight-Os. Yeah, you are constantly having to stop, pull out the stylus and color shit in.

Also, constantly some dialogue. It just goes on for far too long. Yeah. It's very slow, like the original cast. of illusion, and it borrows the sound effects from it to trick you into thinking it's good. Yeah. The problem, though, is that... One thing it does, I think, is kind of...

Sorry, go on, sorry. No, just, like, it is slow. But like you said, the other games were also slow. But the problem here is that that slowness extends to so many elements of the game. Yes, it does, yeah. The level design can't support the slowness. It's just boring to walk through all those cutscenes and dialogue sequences, and just everything feels like it's drawn out just to make the game last longer.

Yeah. There's a lot of elements from other Disney's like you meet like Beast, the Bell and stuff. There's Scrooge. Yeah. It's so, so basic. Okay, here's Scrooge. He wants his lucky dime.

Here is Bell who wants the broom or something like that. It's so obvious. It's that, exactly. It's just like a playable Disney store to me. It's all that clowing Disney Pap away without any of what makes the stuff interesting. It just bombs me out so bad because, like, visually speaking, this looks like a dream. Like if you had a game that looked like this With the design of those originals

I mean if they had just done like a remake of Castle of Lusion Or just make a game in that vein Like they didn't need to do this what they made I'll be honest I'm pretty sure They had Disney breathing down their necks Explading you have to have this dialogue in here

This has to take exactly this long You need this sequence here I don't know if that's true Because Monster Tale is really bad And it has all the same problems That was their passion project Nothing. I mean, I bought it back on the day, and I don't remember it being that bad, but it's been a while, and I've played it, so... Yeah. It's probably not as bad as this, but no, Epic Mickey and Power of Illusion, like, as I mentioned earlier, I was genuinely quite in sense that they would invoke my beloved Illusion series for something this crappy.

Like, it felt like cynicism, real cynicism, you know, to go like, hey, you remember this thing that you love. Well, this is the same as that. Oh, it's like, it's shit. I was bummed out by that. And it's one of the reasons why I was not looking forward to the remake of Castle of Illusion when they announced it. and it came out 2012. It was Sega Studios Australia. I think it was their second and final game after making an Olympics game, London Olympics. I think so, too, yeah. And it blew me away, because it's really good.

Like, I was astonished how good this was. I'm not saying it's like a... I don't like it obviously as much as the original, because how could I? But I like it better than a Megadrive one. I'm sorry, I do. I think it's more fun. They took elements from both games

to create this really charming, enjoyable platform. was genuinely challenging in places and it looks fantastic. I think the 3D stuff is really well implemented. Yeah, they introduce some 3D platforming stuff that never really goes beyond crash bandicoot sort of levels of exploration and it feels seamless.

There's maybe a bit too much collecting to get 100%. You have to get all of the gems and some of them are really quite well hidden, which is fine with me, but when you play through a really long level and you miss one of 200 gems, it's kind of annoying. but that's the kind of thing that would make me go right I'm doing this the fact is it's a game you can be in about two hours and then you've only got time trials left that no one on the planet has ever bothered doing

and that's fine I don't know if you get maybe you guys didn't like this as much as me but I was genuinely heartened at how good this was it felt like they got it they understood what class of illusion was supposed to be like you know oh I agree it's it's really a shame though that this was the end of that studio given how much passion there was for this and I mean these are the guys that were also doing, I think, that was it, Golden Axe? Oh, Golden Axe.

Oh, it was these guys. I think it was the same Oh, the prototype, okay. Yeah, yeah, the prototype. Because they were not happy about that when that got dropped. Yeah, exactly, because Sega just did it without consulting them. I think Sega just kind of threw them onto the bus as well. And they gave it this punny name that made it even look worse when it was released, the prototype. The Golden Axe.

Yeah, I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I think, and they didn't find that too fun. No. I kind of think of a Sega series that has been treated worse than Golden Axe. Like, it's really difficult to think of one. I wrote about it recently, and it's like, this series has, like, one unambiguous good game in it, maybe two, a stretch,

and the rest of them are just like whatever or terrible, and it's still considered a prestige Sega thing for some reason. I don't get it. I mean, I love Golden Axe, but it sucks. Like, it mostly sucks. I'm sorry, I don't think that's a hot take. I really don't. Like, Revenge of Death had it.

Great. The original Golden Axe, everything else. Like, whatever. Golden X3 is great. It's secretly great. I dispute that strongly, but we can have it out on the dedicated Golden X episode. And 2 has very good music at least.

Oh, yeah. Just the same game with worst sound effects. Three is, I suppose, like, a little bit alien because it's the one that never came out over here. Three is one of those games where I always heard for years that it was bad, so I just ignored it. And then I finally sat down and played through it. And I was like, wait a minute.

This has like way more depth in the combat, more like a streets of rage three-style game. It plays closer to death harder than the other ones. I sat down to play it recently, and I came to a different conclusion, but that's fascinating. Maybe I'll check it out again sometime. Because I want to like it, and I want to like it. And also, the soundtrack is bonkers.

It's so good. But, yeah, so anyway, and that concludes this Golden Axe episode. No, I kid. But no, the remake. Did you play this, Thomas? Of course, yeah. I got it on PS3 and had a good time with it. Yes, I played it on, I think, now,

because the PC one is the only one that you can get running at 60 frames per second, not that's a huge deal. That drives me nuts. Like, yeah, the game was capped at 30 on the consoles, also on PC initially, but you could unlock the frame rate. I think they actually just patched it now. I could be wrong. So it's properly patched now. Yeah, I think it has been, because whenever I've played it on PC, so there is a 60 FPS PC version now. That is good to know, actually.

Yeah, I mean, I had it running like that, because there was a fan patch made almost immediately. Yeah, exactly. Same. But I think it was then shortly afterwards patched to just be at 60. Thank God. So, yeah, play it on the PC. I think you can still buy it. It went down for a bit, but I think you can buy it at the moment. Oh, yeah. It's worth getting, I think. It's even worth, if you have to play it on your phone, it's worth it, because it's that good. Like, it plays really well on mobile as well. Yeah, it did, yeah. Oh, yeah.

But I've played this on PC, PS3, and 360, like, and phone. I love this game, and I'll buy every version of it that exists, eventually. It's just a shame that the M2 port of the original is not included in that? I think if you pre-ordered. Yes. I have it for some reason, but... It was on PS3 only, as it was a pre-order bonus for this game. Okay, so that's where it came from.

The M2 port, yeah. We talked about it earlier briefly. Yeah. So if you didn't pre-order this game back when it was 2011 or whatever, too bad. You're never getting that unless you put, like, jailbreak your PS3, which you should never do, obviously. It would be against the law. I think that brings us to a rather handsome close, to be honest. I think you're right.

But I think that covered a lot of ground. And hopefully people listening have enjoyed our discussion on it. And maybe if you haven't played it, check it out. Definitely do. Now, we've talked before about where to play. these games but you know of course other than emulation uh you're not going to be able to play those master system ones so you don't have at it the megadrive ones are on the megadrive mini or you know again emulation have at it who cares doesn't matter and at least one case of the games being not

affordable and not going for yeah absolutely yes and that for gin uh yeah buy them don't have that emulation don't listen to me i'm a nasty boy um castellusion remate you can just buy i think i think it still goes on sale fairly routinely but you might want to buy it before it gets It might get delisted again, so you buy it, please. 30 euros right now. Epic Mickey Power Vruison simply do not play it. It is bad. It's the worst one, yeah.

Yeah, there is no reason to play it. It's the worst Epic Mickey game, and that's saying something, I believe me. It's one of the worst Mickey games in general, I would say. That's a very, very big net, but yes, I would agree with that. It's a huge net, but when you factor in... You know what, game? When you factor in the expectation, then it's one of the worst set there. I've got to be legit.

You know what game? we like more than epic Mickey power of religion is Mickey's ultimate challenge and that's edutainment I prefer that, okay? I think that was like way forwards, one of their first games actually, interestingly enough. It didn't know. Was it really? Wow. I think it was one of them. Yeah, it's wild, right?

From that to cleavage and boobs everywhere. My God. Sorry, I love you way forward. They found they calling. They did find their calling, yeah. Anyway, yes, thank you very much for listening. Now, what I'd like to say is what I want to do,

Now, you know, chime in if this is something that you're up for. There are a lot of licensed platformers and licensed games out there that don't get talked about enough, and I would like to cover those games. So if that's something you're interested in, let me know. Whether or not you let me know, I'm probably still going to do it. So there is a series of games I can very much recommend, and we should have John on board if you talk about that, and John knows what I'm talking about. Are you talking about the autophants again?

I am. Okay, well, I'm not doing the autophants. It's just not going to happen. I'm sorry. Well, what did you pay him? Your autism dreams, burying them in the ground, and never let anyone dig them up.

Do you really want Jeremy to take away Stu's ability to make podcasts? Like, don't do that to them. Okay, you're right. But no, if you would like to, if you're interested in that, please let me know.

If you have any thoughts of games that you want to hear, let me know I have plenty of ideas on the docket, believe me. This is my calling. Talking about these games is my calling. So, yeah, look forward to that. Let's go and talk to our guests

about where we can find them on the internet, as if we don't all already know. John, where can we find you on the internet? Oh, yes, as always, you can find me over on Eurogamer.net, as well as YouTube.com slash digital foundry, where we post all kinds of good stuff there, including the DFRETER series. You'll also find me on Twitter at Dark OneX. And Thomas, where can we find you? So, if you want my opinion on the Otifans and more, you can find me on Twitter at Bimbo-Fortuna. And if you want to read my stuff in German by M-Games, in a...

German stores, I'm afraid, no English version there, or just visit by lectures at university, and I might also talk about artificial stuff. If you're lucky. One of my colleague produced Nadi fans game. Oh, wow. Okay. Oh, boy. I will.

Tell them I hate them, okay? I will. I'm kidding, of course. Thanks very much. Now, if you are a fan of Retronaut, if you have enjoyed this episode and you are not a member for the Patreon, first of all, but second, if you want, if you, I know, I know. No, I got them. I got them. A mere $5 will get you many, many extra things, including a week's, a week early access to all of our weekly episodes, so you can be the coolest kid in the playground.

And also two extra full-length episodes per month of retroannots. That's an insane amount of extra content right there. So many podcasts that they'll be coming out of your ears. And it will be fascinating and hilarious and insightful and thought-provoking, and you're going to love it. Speaking of thought-provoking, the ever-excellent Diamond Fight has been producing this week in retro columns and also producing them as podcasts so you can listen to even more content. They're very good too, I recommend those. And you also get access to the Discord so you can come on there and say, Stu, you don't do a very good job with the Patreon stuff at the end of each episode,

and I'll have to concede that you're correct, and I've done a terrible job. Thank you. Thanks very much again for listening. Have an magical afternoon. Have a mouse tackler afternoon. There you go. I'm talking. ...andau, ...you know,

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Thank you.