Retronauts - 605: Dragon Quest VIII

Episode Date: April 15, 2024

Nadia Oxford forms a party with GvG's Derrick Bitner to celebrate the 20th anniversary of Dragon Quest 8, one of the PlayStation 2's best RPGs. Art by Nick Wanserski, edits by Greg Leahy. This episode is sponsored by Squarespace. Head to https://www.squarespace.com/RETRO to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain using code RETRO. Retronauts is made possible by listener support through Patreon! Support the show to enjoy ad-free early access, better audio quality, and great exclusive content. Learn more at http://www.patreon.com/retronauts.

This episode of Retronauts is brought to you by Squarespace, the all-purpose DIY website platform for pros and beginners alike. This week on Retronauts, that one time an adventuring party hunted down a clown by literally following a horse's ass. Hello and salutations. I am Nadia Oxford, your host for this week's episode of Retronauts. Hello. I'm here to talk to you all about a very important 20-year anniversary, Dragon Quest 8. I know. I can't believe it either.

Dragon Quest 8, like 20 years. We're talking about five years at the most year. But, you know, I don't make the rules of time, apparently. So, yeah, this PlayStation 2 RPG Classic, it made some pretty big changes to Dragon Quest games as a whole, especially as to how they were localized received in the West, which is a impression that persists to this very day. This is a very cool and overwhelming topic, which is why it is a good thing. I have my good friend, Derek Bittner, of Good Vives Gaming, to talk to me about Dragon Quest 8. Hello, and thanks for joining me, Derek. How are you doing? I am doing very well.

Thank you for the invite because I have gotten fascinated by Dragon Quest over the years. I got to say, and Aid is an interesting topic. Like, it's very much a linchpin game, I feel, at least for the Western audience. Absolutely. Like, we'll get a little bit more into the history of Dragon Quest on a personal level. But very briefly, are you like a new fan or an old fan? I guess I'm mostly a new fan because I played a little bit of a little. bit of eight when it came out, played

11 and just fell in love with that one. Actually, nine was the first one. First Dragon Quest I fully completed and really fell in love with that one. I wasn't able to play 10 and then 11 came out and was like, oh, this is really good. And it gave me an interest. So I actually went back and played the original Dragon Quest and just recently beat Dragon Quest too. It's one of my goals to actually

go through the entire Dragon Quest series and see more. But every time I play it, whether it's the Dragon Quest Heroes, Dragon Quest Builders. It is so charming that I can't help but really love this series. And I think once you sort of take hold of Dragon Quest, you wish for its success, like bigger success in the West. Absolutely. Actually, now that you mention it, yes, my husband and I, we have been watching your Dragon Quest videos,

and they are really excellent. And we just watched the one where you went to Dragon Quest too. And if you got the Dragon Quest slash Dragon Warrior 2 on the NES, you are prepared for everything that the series will work. at you. The only other one that I'm worried about is when I eventually get to seven because I will say I'm going to try my best to play the original versions of all of them, which means I'm playing PS1 version of seven and, oh, dear. Yeah, not even I've touched the PS1 version of seven. I have done the 3DS version, and I liked it quite a bit, but I understand why people are, you know, it's not really their favorite one, but I enjoyed parts of it quite a bit.

I think you'll like it. I am curious to see how you like it, like from a PlayStation perspective. especially since the game that we're talking about now is so different from Dragon Quest 7, which was kind of estranged a lot of people from the series, I think, especially in the West. Dragon Quest 7 was a very kind of muted slash retro-looking game, retro-playing game even, like, in the age of 3D polygonal RPGs

that were hugely cinematic, like Final Fantasy 7. Like, it did look a little bit rundown. Is that why he kind of passed on Dragon Quest 7 the first time? Derek, if you remember? I mean, I was into RPGs, but I was very much focused, Final Fantasy 7 was my first RPG. So I was very much focused on Square. Like anything from Square was getting, but they weren't combined with Enix yet. So I was, Dragon Warrior 7 just completely passed me by.

And it wasn't until I looked at it later and heard the everybody sort of talk about its weaknesses and just how long and dragged out it is, which, you know, suffers from a playstyle. point, but it's also fascinating as I've looked ahead and sort of prepared for these later videos. Dragon Quest 7 came out in, I believe, 2000, the same year as Final Fantasy 9. And if you look at a screenshot of Dragon Quest 7, which looks straight out of the S&S and look at Final Fantasy 9, it's no, to me, it's no wonder that nobody in the West really paid attention to it. Yeah, yeah, I hate to say it, but you're absolutely right, especially since, yeah, Seven did not look like much of a graphical upgrade from six, which was a very impressive game at its own right,

because I think that was the first Dragon Quest game where we got animated enemies, sprites. But they kind of had the same meager animations on the PlayStation, and I don't think people were very fond of that in that day and age 2000. So we were very close to the PS2 by that point. Yeah, it wasn't taking long at all. But, I mean, Square did go hard with Dragon Quest 8. Not only this as being 3D and all the changes we'll get into,

but they packaged the demo for Final Fantasy 12 with it. That's right. Yes. Back in the day, children, the way that people used to kind of at least attempt to sell their games was to put demo discs in for very anticipated games with games that might otherwise never get a second glance. Like, I think Toebel number one, Final Fantasy 7 was probably the most popular example,

although Tollgo number one certainly has its defenders, and rightfully so, I hear. I mean, I think this is why most people are aware of Zone of the Enders because they package the MGS2 demo with it. I wasn't aware of the hype for Final Fantasy 7, so I completely missed Tobol, but I was very much aware of, oh, hey, I should check out this Brave Fencing Musashi because it comes up,

comes with a Final Fantasy 8 demo, and I'm very excited for that. I forgot about that pair-up, yeah. And I guess Brave Frenccii was actually a pretty good game to be packed with. Yeah, it's actually very enjoyable. It's very different from your typical square art. RPG, but it works as sort of as an action sort of thing. And in retrospect, kind of, oh, I'm blanking on his name, but the mystical ninja

going on, there it is. Yeah. Kind of going on issue in retrospect. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah, that demo kind of pulled me in, and I was seeing all the graphics. And at that point, I was really into the preview culture. And it's like, huh, this is looking pretty interesting.

I should check this out. Yeah, I feel like Yeah, I feel like Square Enix was going, hitting a high point by that point. We had Dragon Quest 8. We had Final Fantasy 12. We were having some good times. And Dragon Quest 8, Journey of the Curst King, that is the full name, came out on November 27th in 2004 in Japan. And almost a year later, November 15th, 2005, in North America, and that could be because

it did like a lot of extensive localization here. Developer, this is very interesting. Developer 4, Dragon Quest 8 was level 5. The House of Layton itself. I think that's what drew me in as well, because at that point, I'd become a level five fan. Layton, you had the dark cloud games. They would just sort of taken off as this new big developer. And then there's like, oh, they're working on this game as well. Oh, that's cool.

And it's like, at that point, oh, no, wonder, it looks so gorgeous. They were just sort of the kings that are crafted, especially with those cell-shaded RPGs. Yeah, that's right. They did Ni No Kuni, correct? Yes, they would go on at least one of them. And I think sometime after this was BroG Galaxy on PS2. I've not played that one, but I do remember it. They also had, I don't know if this was around the same time, fantasy life, which, as we record this now, level 5 is starting to come out of a very, very long slumber slash hibernation, where they were like the new hotness during the time of Dragon Quest 8, and they certainly deserved the title.

But they kind of fell out of favor for quite a while. And I'm not entirely sure why maybe they went to late and well one too many times. According to Kat Bailey, who is host of the Acts of Blood God podcast alongside myself, she says they really messed up the condom license, something fierce. And that did not help. Yeah, I think they also went too hard, too quick one, Yoki Watch, because Yoko Watch was huge. They were, it was massive in Japan. Didn't quite take off the same in the West, but it was just everywhere in Japan.

But then they got, I think they got four sequels or. They got four. Yeah. In like just a couple of years. And it shows you the difference between why Pokemon ended up not being a fad, but Yo-Kai Watch kind of is, even though I know there's a lot of people that love it. But it's one of those things like they went too hard on it. They needed to space it out, give it time to breathe, and really that people get excited

for each new release, but they're like, no, this is printing money. We've got to get it out there. It's, it bit them hard, unfortunately. Yeah, I will say I do enjoy the Yo-Kai Watch Final Fantasy 14 event that comes around every couple of years. Everyone on the field hunting yokai is actually a lot of fun, but beyond that, Yo-Kai Watch was not really something that I found extremely interesting.

I found the gameplay a little bit juvenile. And, yeah, there was that. I feel like Professor Layton, I adore Professor Layton, except I think it peaked at Unwound Future, which there's just no better Layton story than that one for me. Oh, not even close. I mean, they're still fun in their own ways, but three is definitely the peak. I mean, I would never have expected a Layton game to make me cry. Oh, man, it just broke my heart.

And it's a bit of a shame because it took such a long time for Layton to finally have specialized Canadian localizations where we have the metric system in the puzzles. Please and thank you, not having to deal with American imperial system. And unfortunately, that's when the series kind of went to sleep. But it's emerging like cicadas, I suppose. And yeah, the CEO of Level 5 is, and apparently always has been Akihiro Hino, who was a director on Dragon Quest 8 as well. I don't think I realized that. I mean, they went all out.

I mean, to be honest, working on Dragon Quest is like probably the big thing you can do in Japan. Yeah, I mean, after that, actually, when I went to go preview Dragon Quest 11 for U.S. Gamer back in the day, I actually went to Japan for that. And I was sitting in the airport waiting to go home and a woman came up to me because she was doing kind of a survey for foreigners about like Japan and the Olympics that are coming up. And she's, like, asking me, like, why are you here? And I said, oh, you know, I came to see the Dragon Quest game. And she was like, oh, you know exactly what that was, even though she was obviously, like, an office worker. I thought that was really funny. I see, I've seen old pictures of the lines for Dragon Quest 3.

And it's, it's amazing how much that series has just clicked with Japan. And you kind of see why, because it's the originator. It's done so much for it. It was like, it's weird to think it out now because you sort of view Dragon Quest is like, yeah, it's the throwback to the old score RPGs. But back in the day, it was the forerunner. It set the standard. Yeah. And it's sort of, I don't exactly know when that shift happens where it wasn't that RPG that pushed everything forward.

But, you know, obviously it's still incredibly loved to the point that American started hearing about the fact that like, oh, no, the government made a law that they can't release on weekdays because people will skip school and work. And I did find out that that actually is not true. It was actually a decision by Yuzi Hori because he didn't want people to get in trouble for doing that. It's funny. I seem to remember that kind of thing. Like even back in the day, that was printed in like Nintendo Power. So it was one of those little bits of playground knowledge you kind of kept in like in your back pocket to impress people before the internet.

yeah back when they was like oh crap there's fact checkers now yeah but you're right um i think i remember hearing that uh it wasn't quite a law but yeah it's uh i like how uti hoary just said you know what just uh it's kind of like um yoshi p delaying the um don't trail expansion until the the elder ring dLC comes out so i mean i appreciate that because i still need to get through end walker i i want to try to be day and date with 14 with don't trail so oh man what a great expansion. You're going to have good time. Delay it another month, please. Give me time. If only. Hey, everyone, Jeremy here with a quick message from our sponsor.

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That's squarespace.com slash R-E-T-R-O. Let's bring back the Internet's good old days. So actually, an interesting thing about Dahino, have you ever played, like this is a little bit of a diversion. Have you ever played the, what was it called, mystery rooms? It wasn't a series. The mystery room game featuring Professor Layton's son, Alfendi. I've heard of it, but I've never played it because I, I, I don't play mobile games too often, and I saw that.

I'm like, I'm kind of offended by the idea that how the heck that he have a son is sort of I was as an unbound future fan. I'm like, no. What happened to you? And it is such an interesting question because everything about the game is screwed up. And I really, really wanted answers. And I don't think they're forthcoming. And I'm very angry about that.

I think, doesn't that that character get a reference in the, um, Lady Leighton game or something like that. I feel like they've not played that one either, but I feel like they attempted to make those both work because we've got Leighton's daughter and we got Leighton's son now. Yeah, I'm not sure how it works. I don't know the I don't know the answer. My guess is that he just grabbed orphans off the street.

That feels fine to me. I'm okay with that. Just sure. Take some orphans. That's all good. Grab a handful of orphans from the gutter. They're all over the place in Victoria and England. To me, there is no way they're acknowledging any of that when it comes to the next late in game.

No, and I'm really hoping they will, but I know it's just a hope against hope. Of course, you know, you have the rest of the quote-unquote Dragon Quest Dream Team on this. Uji Hori is one of the games writers and scenario directors. The late great Akira Toriyama is the character designer slash monster artist, and we'll get into that. But still reeling from that loss, just I'm never going to get over that one. it's it's far too soon and it just makes you wonder like what do they do for this point on like I have to assume that probably most of his designs were in the can for Dragon Quest 12 I would assume so yeah but what's it mean for beyond that for a game that's a series that's so traditional and so

set in its way to not have that dream team of Toriyama and Sugiyama and say what you were about Sugiyama and then the later point of his life and just his politics in general but he was sort of the a pillar of the series for so long. He was. Yeah. He's gone. Toriyama's gone. Ujeehori is standing firm. May he reign for many, many more decades. But for now, we have this team together on Dragon Quest 8.

And actually, Sugiyama, I would say this is one of his best soundtracks. I agree with that. Three and eight, I think, are my favorite works by him. And it says something that Dragon Quest 8. Sorry, Dragon Quest 11. As much as I adore that game, they let you download the overall theme from 8. And there's a reason for that

because the overall theme for 11 is just so horrible. But I love replacing it with 8. It just really, really ups the adventure, the sense of adventure in that game. Because Dragon Quest 8 was such a... It was much more open and free feeling than any Dragon Quest game to that point. Can you actually remind me how you got into eight specifically?

Because I know you're kind of like going back and forth with the series right now. So how did you kind of get into eight? I specifically discovered eight because I was still a huge RPG fan in the PS2 era, always looking for what comes next. And a lot of previews were talking about eight. And how, you know, Dragon Quest was just as big thing. And it was like, oh, cool, you're, there's all these changes. I've always been

like I was raised on Final Fantasy so I'm used to seeing my party I'm used to seeing them attack the monsters and to not have that for certain games like when I saw stuff for Earthbound or older Dragon Quest I'm like I don't know about this but actually being able to see your character

see them doing the attacks that kind of drew me in and then just like again the level five connection and then the fact that it was just this beautiful cell shaded like this is it was just it drew you in and you know being a Dragon Ball fan

it's like okay yeah I'm I see see the style now. I want to do, I want to, I want to see this. I want to take part in this. And it's, it's extremely charming, even though I didn't, I never finished the original PS2 version. I got pulled away in some, in that way you always get pulled away with RPG. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I know that, I know the way. This is the way for sure. I wish it wasn't, but it is. Every RPG fan knows that feeling. Yeah. As for myself, I did not have a PlayStation 2, but at the time, I was like, really good. getting into the Dragon Quest revival that was going on in the West.

Basically, I had been a Dragon Quest fan my whole life. And when I was a little girl, of course, the series kind of stopped coming over here to the West. So I never really forgot about it, but I kind of, like, you know, lost interest in favor of Final Fantasy and Breath of Fire and the 16-bed RPGs that actually did make it here. And then around the time, I think that Pokemon started to become big, you got Square taking more of a chance. on like hey dragon quest monsters kids come over here and with that they started releasing things like the the dragon quest sorry the dragon warrior ports for the game boy and the really excellent dragon warrior three for the game boy color uh i have that absolutely recommend it but i didn't have a ps2 so i was kind of salty about dragon quest eight i guess and just

kind of pretended it didn't exist but then um i spent like a weekend my friend out in like the boondocks of ontario and while she was spending the day trying to uh download half life two of her dial up on steam oh no i was just like oh hey dragon quest can i play dragon quest on your ps2 she's like sure of course and i was just like uh wow i cannot believe how freaking incredible this game is it looks great it sounds great uh has the really british voice acting which took a minute to kind of get used to but uh i was quite impressed and very much back baby into Dragon Quest. I

did get a PS2 eventually. I don't think I finished the game on the PS2 even though I bought it for that, but I did finish it on the 3DS when the 3DS version came out. And there was a mobile version as well. I think there still is. You play it with one

hand. That's how it was formulated. It's like you know, portrait. Is it portrait or lent? Yes, portrait orientation. It's not great. But It's something, if you really want that, like the 3-S version, I would say is probably the definitive way to play the game. It's missing some things, but it's also- You lose that on the soundtrack.

The graphics aren't quite as good, but there are some quality of life improvements that do make it the definitive version. I think so. The orchestrated soundtrack, that's something we'll get into because that falls into the localization, which was really fantastic. But you lose that with the 3DS version, but you do have great quality of life improvements. offense like, oh my gosh, you can see enemies on the field now. You don't have to run into random encounters. God bless. Oh, it's, that's such a magical feeling.

At first, I kind of missed it when they started getting those encounters because it's like, well, now it doesn't feel as important because now I can avoid everything. I kind of like, I'm not grinding anymore. That feels weird. How am I leveling up my characters? But after time, it's like, oh, God, I could just pick and choose when I want to grind. You kind of adjust to it a bit. But yeah, Dragon Quest 8 certainly had the old school.

at least on PS2 had the old school, run into your encounters as much as possible. I'm curious, I don't remember how bad the encounter rate was. I think it was, like, perfectly reasonable, thankfully. You did have some enemies he could see on the field, and those were the ones he could, I believe, take into the arena. I think you're right. Yeah, so those ones you knew were very special, but otherwise everything else was just kind of out there and kicking your ass. It was pretty grand. that this was the first official Dragon Quest.

Like, no more Dragon Warrior. Dragon Warrior is out. Dragon Warrior is canceled. What had happened originally was Dragon Quest was trademarked by some pen and paper company for until 1982. Then TSR bought it and had the copyright forever. I don't know if it expired, but in either case, Square Enix finally applied for it and got it. Yeah. Thank God.

I miss Dragon Warrior. I think the last Dragon Warrior, I think the last Dragon Warrior game, quote unquote, was Dragon Warrior 3, which I mentioned for the Game Boy And I'm looking at the box art for that now. And that is such an interesting game because the Dragon Warrior name is 100% like American, you know, old localization. And the artwork is very Akira Toriyama, whereas the artwork for, say, the Dragon Quest 1 and 2 collection on the Game Boy were these really horrible computer renders. 3D lockups. You remember, right? It was just like, oh, this looks like a game for kindergarten. nurse, why'd you do that?

I think they realized that by Dragon Warrior 3's release that, oh, Americans love Dragon Ball. We need to capitalize on this. Yeah, yeah. As you, have you taken like a really good look at the Western box art for the Dragon Warrior games you're playing right now? I have, actually. It's interesting because at first I'm like, I will always gravitate towards the Japanese box art when it comes to those. But it also was fascinating when I was really looking at the Dragon Warrior One box art for the, on the American side, they're essentially the same. It's just a completely different style.

It's a warrior fighting off a dragon, but the styles are completely different where it's more traditional. And then Dragon Quest 2, 3, and 4, I think all just went with treasure as their box arts. Yes, you're right. No, sorry, Dragon Quest 2, Dragon Warrior 2. It has an absolutely metal box art where somebody, I can't remember the name of the artist, but they were from Japan. They basically took Akira Turyama's characters and made them into, like, I guess, what they assumed the West wanted to see out of fantasy heroes. So you had these classic characters of, like, Lodo's descendants, except they're all depicted as, like, 80s Western fantasy. Like, I'm looking at it now.

And yeah, that is absolutely the case. It is fascinating taking a closer look at this because, one, you got the hero who typically has like a pilot's cat. Cap one, but no, they give him a horrid helmet like in Dragon Warrior One. Yes. But he does have the symbol of, I will always say Erdrich. I just, it's Erdrich in my mind. I know it's supposed to be Loto from Japanese version, but I think I prefer Airdrake. It has been retcon back to Erdrich, so you're okay.

Yeah. And then, but it has that symbol. But then behind him, you can see Hargon, an Americanized version. It's first I've really looked this closely. And then behind it, there's Malroth. I'm like, holy crap. They went all out for this. Isn't it cool?

And, like, the hero has, like, a WWE belt, like, with the symbol on it. Brother. No, it is pretty, it is great box art. That's way better than I remember. But, yeah, I think for three and four, they went very simple after that point, right? Three, yeah. Treasure? Three is actually one of my favorite box arts of all time because it has, like, the, one of the dragon orbs,

which is something, you know, you'll collect in the game, surrounded by what is actually, like, weapons that you see in the game and Toriyama has designed but again it has been westernized and it's just like a really nice collage of fantasy stuff four is just uh someone drew a sword someone did the sword cool yeah i'm looking at the uh since i haven't played three yet so i'm not fully aware of the weapons but yeah it is all just about uh all of those hmm oh yeah they do have erdrick sword right there in the foreground that's wow there is way more effort placed on these boxards in the typical localizations for RPGs. For sure.

For us, I mean, it matches the sword you have. It's just... That's an atheist sword. It's fine. Yeah, it does its job. Honestly, there's a thing I've been wondering for a while, and I don't know why it didn't happen, but I feel like Dragon Warrior, Dragon Quest, what have you, could be so, would have been so much bigger in the West if five would come out. Because S&ES is when RPGs truly took off. and you have one of the all-time greats with Dragon Quest 5

and it never came to the West until the DS. Yeah, officially with the DS. I did play like a fan translation before that and it certainly wasn't as impressive looking as say Chrono Trigger or Final Fantasy 6, but gameplay-wise is one of the deepest

RPGs on the system. I always had a theory myself and I wrote this up for US Gamer way back in the day that Nintendo should not have taken the time to when they localized Dragon Quest 1 for the West, like they really went all out, as you know, I feel like they should have taken that time and effort

and used it to localize Dragon Quest 3 because by the time we got Dragon Quest 1, Japan was getting Dragon Quest 3, which is a so much, much better game, much more engaging, it still holds up today. I wonder if maybe RPG's going to have a better chance if we'd had that instead. And, of course, it looks a lot better than Dragon Quest 1.

yeah that is an interesting alternate timeline there because look what final fantasy did they skipped like from one to two is like well let's skip to two and three let's get to the really good one that's like has a better chance and it seemed to work for them it did i mean we all forgot how to count for a while but otherwise it was uh it was all pretty great yeah that's so interesting that just that delayed release schedule might have been what that was the death knell of five because it was just too late because probably four four came out really late in the NAS's lifespan. It did. I think also by the time four was done and or the S&S became a thing, Enix of America had to close up.

Oh, I forgot about that. Yeah, so there was like no one really around to localize the games. I think even like Illusion of Guy was localized by Nintendo. So, yeah. That's a shame, but I think that's what makes Dragon Quest 8 all the more important because it's

it's the push. It's square and trying to make the popularity for this series as big in the West as it is ever in Japan. It is actually the first Dragon Quest game, mainline Dragon Quest game to hit Powell Regions. That's forpy. They had a rough back in the day. They kind of did. Like, I know they had Terranigma, which I absolutely adore. But I understand, like, just the pain of being left behind that it had to hurt.

Like, I was, that's where I was when I got the GameCube instead of the PS2. and missed out on, like, one of the best RPG generations of all time. Oh, I'm so sorry. I mean, you got some good ones in there, but not as many as what you would have had on the PS2. No, I mean, it was worth it for Metroid Prime, but otherwise, yeah, good old GameCube. Enjoy your Tales of Symphonia and Skies of Arcadia Legends. I didn't even think I played those. I think I gave up by that point.

I was just so like, oh, God. You know, Do you remember the commercial for Dragon Quest 8 because there was a commercial? I don't think I do. I don't know if I've ever seen it. It had, I just remember weird vines growing out of a sink. I mean, I think it was supposed to your reference to the vines that, um, Um, when you get up to the castle that's been cursed, the aforementioned cursed castle, the cursed king or whatever, uh, it's covered in thorns. So for some reason, that was part of the commercial. And it, that was strange to me because Canada did not get a lot of commercials for RPGs. Like, I did not know for years that there was like commercials with Mog and about Final Fantasy and stuff like that. Like, that was just complete news to me when I got on the internet. But we got this one for some reason. And it was like, okay. vines.

Yeah. I'm watching a commercial now and it's all gameplay just talking I don't have the sound or anything like that but it's

it definitely seems like it's surprisingly all gameplay with just a few things about like you know here's the plot line got this cursed kingdom we've got a hero

stepping up they make a very pointed point of showing the main character at is 100% tension yeah the tension thing definitely a big deal here

And then, of course, including the demo for Final Fantasy 12. So, yeah, they, I think they were really trying to show off, look how pretty it is, and got Dragon Ball connections, and then, hey, Final Fantasy connections. So it does feel like a big push for people. Yeah, so around this time, 2005, was Dragon, like, I had kind of a different schedule in Canada, was Dragon Warrior, sorry, Dragon Ball, like really starting, is that when they started to really hit Tunami and just kind of? blow up? I cannot remember. I remember it was when I was in high school, which would be early 2000. So it was right before.

I think it's, okay, the finale, I just looked it up here. The original American air date was April 7, 2003. So yeah, it was very much fresh at that point. Right. This would have also been around the time that like the Western game developers are like, oh my god what can we localize that has dragon ball on it oh here's dragon ball gt let's do that so i could see why maybe uh they started to hang their hopes on dragon quest and how distinctive akira shoriama's artwork is and it's interesting i brought up the western box art and how they

changed that to a more western you know what they thought was more appealing to a western audience but uh they finally let toriama out of his cage in the west and said here is the man who was making all these cool monsters. Everyone say hello. He's he's the Dragon Ball guy. I mean, it's effective and it's a gorgeous box art, for sure. Everything about Dragon Quest 8 is just pretty. Yeah, it really is one of the, um,

Keri Tarama's box art for these games, especially in Japan, are just absolutely perfect. Like we were talking about how the box art, the Japanese box art for Dragon Quest 5 is just, just epic. Oh, one of his best pieces. Absolutely. And I think 8 in Japan and America more or less share the same box art, but either way, there's like that image of like, I don't really know if the hero has an official name. Some people call him 8. Some people call him other things. But just him climbing and you see like Jessica with the horse, the princess horse behind her. And just a really action-filled shot that gives you that, you know, sense of serious adventure while also making it like playful and fun. Everything he does. as Akira Chama does, has, like, life.

He's kind of like James Baxter in that way. Like everything he draws has like a movement to it. Although poor Angelo always gets left out. Yeah, we should talk a little bit about the characters we have here because we do have Angelo, aka trunks. I mean, I love Akira Chorama, like I just said, but humans tend to kind of follow templates, which maybe he always wanted it that way.

I don't know. But he looks like fancy trunks. So that's why I was kind of known as. yeah there's there's a lot like people were like always hoping for goku and smash it's like they got the you know you got the hero er drake and drenquest three is like there you go there's goku yeah there you go kids yeah they tend to blend together a little bit he'll have some designs that sort of stand out from others but you know i will always see lucca as bulma as bolma like you just have that sort of idea but that said i don't can't think of anybody that really looks like yengis

yangis is yangus there has never been another yangus he is a singularity yeah Absolutely. And I appreciate that. It mostly follows a template, but every so often he'll give you that sort of outside the box and it just stays with you. Yeah, and it's funny because Yang is one of those characters that you see once and then he never forget him because he can close your eyes and he's always just like right behind your eyelids like a ghost. He's got like that like yellow shell. I'm just remembering from my memory. Yellow like kind of shell hat and that scruffy weird vest and the, I think he's bare chest. he's got like weird green pants and

or weird pink pants and weird green shoes or vice versa. He's just a very loud, discordant kind of guy with a very cockney accent. The cockney accent really sells it. It just, honestly, the cockney accent is kind of an inspired choice. I wonder because every so often I look at him, I don't know

whether it's the design makes me think of it or the accent that makes me think of it, but I just, Yengis screams Bob Hoskins to me. Who, friends? and Roger Rabbit with the Angus. Exactly. And you know, it works. It works.

It does. I'm amazed how well the British voice acting works for Dragon Quest. Yeah, the, I think maybe to give the series a really fresh start in America, like they completely changed how the games are localized. And that's not to say, I mean, you would, I'm actually interested in your opinion, Derek, since you're playing these old games, like, what do you think of the localization in them so far, the NES games? They are surprisingly good.

Like, they don't have that element of some like Castlevania 2s where they're saying something like, what the heck do you mean? Yeah. What are you talking about? Is that a sentence? If you put the work in, there is enough information there that you can easily, not easily, but you will figure things out. Their clues are all there. Just recommend having a notebook nearby so you can actually track them all and actually track of everything that you need to do or clues that you've been given. but they're all there.

And to me, that makes for an impressive localization. There's not like a lot of story or anything for them to really take track of, at least with one and two. But I'm not confused. And to me, that's impressive for those old days. And the British kind of works because even from the beginning, they were using the sort of old English style. It's like, you know, thou must go on or, you know, that sort of idea.

And it's funny seeing the new localizations for those older games, like on the Switch and the mobile games. And they make it even more flowery where it's almost sure. Shakespearean without sort of Duff, the villain headeth that way or that sort of idea. Yeah, it's actually very interesting how they do that. Like, it's almost as if the localization team, which, by the way, I think is still, let me see, I wrote these guys down. Plus Alpha Translations, Ultrapan. Yeah, Alchaband and Plus Alpha Translations, who were brought in to do the new translations.

and I think they still handle the games to this day. They have adopted, or at least Square Enix forever they're using now, has adopted that old English kind of translation that they used to use way back in the day into the canon for the newer Dragon Quest games. So it's like, as you say, Derek, you know, you're going to be playing the old games on the switch. And yeah, they really kind of lean into the whole Victorian English aspect of it, Whereas Dragon Quest 8 British, well, it's going to depend who you ask, but I think it sounds natural, more natural.

It definitely does. It doesn't feel like nobody seems like they're on airs at all times. Exactly. Yeah, like I find that especially the Cockney characters in these games, like just talk really naturally and it's always amusing and fun. Whereas if you ask some of the British colleagues I have worked with in the past, present and probably the future, Suddenly to get very angry when a video game has a British accent. They say, that's not what we sound like. And I'm sorry, but you sound like Rex from Zinaplayed.

I'm sorry, what can I tell you? Yeah. I know you don't want to hear it. Just the way. Well, it is, except your Welsh cat girl. That's just the way it has to be. Honestly, I think the best, obviously we got the more than your notes here, all the enemy and spell names were re-localized as well, which I think for the most part works a little bit better because for most of the cases, I haven't seen a lot of the, I haven't compared the spells back and forth, but I think it's a little bit more obvious what they do with these new translations of the spell names.

And I think Dragon Quest got a real sense of identity thanks to its monster localizations. because, you know, you got, as you mentioned here, we have wolf lords, but now there, I think it was some, I forget which was which, but now we got puns, tons and tons of puns. That's the key point here. And any world where we got a translation that gave us that little pagan and a mage hat called a ham, a sham witch. Yes. I'm sorry, that's amazing. That's a good localization name. And I am all about those, a bewarewolf.

Yes. Thank you. That is great. There's also a dude who is just a man in a tiger suit. He's called a wear tiger, as in W-E-A-R. He's wearing the tiger skin. He's a wear-tiger. The games are full of that kind of thing.

I think that gives it so much identity. It's actually very weird to me. I was like, I was very curious where that change was. And I figure it was either seven or eight. And with this, yeah, it confirms eight was where that really started. and I think that says a lot just how, like, we had five games before this

and those, that didn't stick around. As soon as they had this new localization, granted more people play date than those old games, I believe. But still, I think it's stuck with people, at least stuck with me. And, I mean, they kept some of them, the standard, like a green dragon,

still a green dragon, a slime is still a slime. You know, you have those aspects. The orcs are still there. Drachies are still the same. But one of my favorite, discoveries from Dragon Quest 2 was that what they called

the poison slimes. I forget what they're the new localization. The babbles are bubble slimes. Yes, bubble slimes. They used to be called babbles and I'm sorry, that's wonderful. I don't know why. I used to call them babbles to be honest with you. Like I largely prefer the new localizations

of course. Just a matter of habit. Like, why would you call a chimera which doesn't even look like a chimera, a wyvern? It's like so weird twice over. But I still think of the chimeras as Wyverns. I can't help myself. Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting going for that older aspect because I'm so used to having like the chimera wing. Yeah. I think of them as wing of the Wyvern, which is what they're called in the NES games. But actually, I think

the localization added voices, if I'm not mistaken. I don't think the Japanese version of the game had voices. And that was a very big deal. That's what really, of course, We're sitting here talking about how these great Cockney characters, like, that, I think, was a big step to helping us bond with Dragon Quest for the first time in a long time. Yeah, you had those, you have some really great voice actors. I don't know any of their names, but I do know that Angela's voice actor would go on to voice Alvis in Xenoblake Chronicles, so you have that connection. Oh, that's right. Yeah. And it is, they're all excellent.

You know, it ranges what they actually get to do, but, you know, you get to. And I like that each town sort of has its own style because you go to the first town and they have this sort of Russian accent almost. Yes. Okay, sure. For some reason, that was just something games did back in the day, especially local, like the new localized Dragon Quest games. But in general, like I was thinking about, say, Paper Mar. was coming out soon, right? And if I recall correctly, a thousand year door, they had a whole town of penguins that were just Canadians. They just like talk like Canadians, eh? I guess they're trying

to give it that sort of uniqueness. I have to assume in those cases that there was some sort of like way they spoke that's very much reminiscent of the area they come from in Japan or they're referencing in Japan because I'm used to the idea that, oh, there's a character from Osaka. They have the Osaken accent. South. They're Southern. They're Southern in translations or localizations. We have talked about that.

I think with, I don't remember if it was on Retronauts or Axis of Lugga, but Brother Fire 3 has the Osaken. There's a, there's a dolphin who is supposed to be Osaka and he was localized to Australian. And I think the developers found out and I thought that's hilarious, but just, yeah, I love the associations that we get. But yeah, usually Osaka is Southern. If I recall correctly, the titular Saka, Osaka from Azumanga, was Southern as well.

Yeah, so that's how you get your different dialects in these games. And I always think those are really cute. So who knows? Maybe the penguins are from Hokkaido, which is, well, they play ice hockey up there, unlike most of the world and Canada. So, yeah. It's possible. I mean, it makes for a good fit at the very least.

One thing we're going to be able to be able to be. One thing we should mention is that gameplay-wise, Dragon Quest 8 was also a little different in other ways. For example, I think we mentioned that this is us seeing our characters attack at the same time. You know what I mean? Like, I think you mentioned that already, didn't you? Yeah.

That was sort of how one of the appeals to me, because before, you never saw the characters. I'm pretty sure it's just here's the monsters and you get to see a little spell effect or attack effect over the monster that you attack. And that's it. But with eight, you see like, ah, here's the hero. a hero goes in for attack and you see the hero jump forward and do the attack it's stuff that was all the way back in Final Fantasy 7 but it's appreciated and you know it to me it just gets you a little bit more involved in the action like to see your characters actually pull

off these moves and make the spell effects that more much more entertaining or interesting I mean without us being able to see the characters we would never have gotten to see Yenghis's underpants stance and that would be criminal. Oh my God. I forgot about, how could I forget about the underpants? Because that's what another thing with this game is that you don't really change classes in the way that you do in many

Dragon Quest games, but by God, they gave you some interesting skill trees. Like the I can't, I can't remember what unique skill like everybody has like skills that they can use or they can learn surrounding weapons and then they have like an individual unique kind of tree that they

can develop themselves. Like I think the hero has courage. I can't remember what Yangas has. It might be like has something to do with his ugly but lovable face. And one of the things I think you can learn is the underpants stand. And just the, when you said it, like, I remember the sound of stupid. Just brings out two pairs of boxer shorts, does a little dance. And I figured it was the enemy, but it does it.

And the enemy is shocked and it's just so scandalized that there's. Of course, we have Jessica, which, uh, she has, Has her fans. The puff, puff, yeah, as I recall. Give her the puff, puff, give her the sexy beam. All right, she had the sexy beam. That was actually pretty powerful, as I recall. Yeah, it was actually pretty decent as far as attacks go.

You definitely used it more with her than I ever did with Jade in 11. Oh, man, I have a weakness for Jade. But yeah, there was also, I think the reason I like to use Angelo is because, if I'm not mistaken, he was a group attacker. Like, he could use whips. He could use boomerangs, I think, maybe. Maybe. I forget exactly what he had access to. I know he had swords and I know he had bows. Bowes. Okay. Yeah. So he was pretty well kidded out. And yeah, everyone like once you kind of play around with the skill tree is like you could get a pretty cool party going. If you were really

brave, you could do fisticuffs. I know some people who do that. I don't do fisticuffs. I like weapons. Yeah, I definitely prefer the weapons. I looked it up and Angela had swords, bows, and staves. Staves, right. God, he was like a real red mage type going on, wasn't he? Yeah, very much so. And I think Jessica was

Whips... Yes. Wips, staves, and something else. I forget the last one of those. You could really change it up, but that also, again, gets into the improvements that the 3DS version

had over the original PS2 version. Because in the original, you had each further, as far as you're getting ability points, and you could put it into each of their weapons or that other thing, but you had no idea what you're

unlocking or how much you need to put in there to unlock. And there are not enough skill points in the game to max out everything. So you have to kind of just pick two. You can't even just, you won't be as powerful if you don't, if you try to spread it out evenly. So you kind of have to pick one or two

to really focus on and have that be their thing. And if you want to prepare for it, well, you either need a guide or you're just going to have to go blind and just hope that it works out for you. But with the 3DS version, they show you the entire list. Like, here's how many points you need, and yet that's this many points, you'll get this

thing. It's something else I should point out, too, is that I believe the localization did a real overhaul to the UI to make it less text-based and more image-based, and they really made it very pretty. Like, the menus, the monster listings and whatnot, all

organized very nicely, and all illustrated and presented very nicely as well. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. It's very appealing to eyes. It's, I don't know, like, there's just an instant charm to it all. That's the one thing I came back. Like, I think this is, obviously there's some retrospective stuff when it comes to the old stuff I have not played yet, but I think the charm really gets pulled on, push forward with Dragon Quest and its spinoffs from this point on, where they're just like, this is what we're all

about. We have just a feel-good time, even though we can get dark, but this is a feel-good time, but with all these, you know, these silly aspects or the silly monster names, the characters at times. One of my favorite scenes in this game is the bar fight. So. And that's pretty early in the game, as I recall. It is. But it's iconic. You got just this bar fight breaking out and you have the hero just standing there like, what is happening?

Yeah. Look at this idiot look in his face. It gives so much personality to the hero when most of the time they don't get a personality. Yeah. Yeah, actually one reason I have a little bit hard time remembering parts of it, and this is actually to its credit, is that Dragon Quest 11, which is also like, a beautifully charming little game built a lot off eight and so certain things are like I'm thinking of the skill tree in eight with the skill tree in an 11 and it's like oh well okay I'm picturing

11 here I'm trying to remember what eight was like in comparison but I just remember 11 had that really satisfying crunch every time you unlock something yeah I think I think I was literally just pumping in points and bam he got this you know there was no like presentation I guess It's the best way to put it, like 11 does. Yeah. So, and I see a note here from you, like, crafting, we got the alchemy pot. That was just fun to just toss in stuff and see what you got. Yeah.

I think there was an improvement over the American version, sorry, with the Japanese, over the Japanese version of the American version, I think they made it a little simpler to make combinations, whereas in Japan it was a lot more guesswork. Yeah. Then they further improved it for the 3DS version. Maybe that's what I'm thinking of. Originally, you'd pop those in and you'd have to walk a little bit. Then you'd see what you got.

Yes. With the 3DS version, it was instant. Yes, that's right. Okay. Which was good because, as I recall, one of my favorite thing to do in Dragon Quest 8 was to start the game and use the Alchemy Pot as soon as possible to make a fire boomerang and just kind of cheese my way through the early part of the game. Boomerangs early on are really effective. They really are. and they kind of lose their effectiveness

later in the game, unfortunately. But that's why you bring Eric aboard and he can just kind of kill everything on Dragon Quest 11. I love boomerangs. They are a lot of fun. I think that's, see, that's kind of a blind spot to me

with the Dragon Quest history because when I first encountered boomerangs and thieves and whips, they had been added to Dragon Quest, sorry, Dragon Warrior 3 for the Game Boy Color. And they were not part of the original like lore of Dragon Quest that I knew it. So I think they were added with six and kind of retrospectively or retroactively

added into remakes and stuff like that, which is why they're in three. But, yeah. It's fascinating to think about them because they're sort of the weaponized versions of certain spells where, you know, whips are good against groups while boomerangs hit everything and spells work in much the same way, just get of that physical aspect. So it's kind of an ingenious way to expand upon the system. that they've had for so long? Yes.

I actually, my heart went out to you when you were playing Dragon Quest 2 and you learned the difference between groups and all enemy attacks. Especially since, I think, Dragon Quest 2, that is the game where if you miss a group, then you're not getting any kind of damage done, as I recall. That is right. Oh, man. And that was something, as I recall, that really frustrated me, too, with the original Final Fantasy. Like, I'd go to attack an enemy that was long dead, and it just, like, felt so slow and pointless and hurt my very soul. You really, that's why I prefer Dragon Quest, too, to Final Fantasy in terms of that way, because each enemy was individual in Final Fantasy. But because of the groups, if you thought you were going to kill something, you could go for the group or they go for the single for that kill and have the others work on the group.

Yes. So it felt a little easier to plan around. It really did, yeah. Um, I don't know about you, but like, for me at least, this was the first RPG that really kind of gave me the sense of what an open world RPG could feel like. Like by today's standards, especially for the PlayStation 2 version of the game, it, the overall world is kind of simple. It's sprawling. But for me, that was the first time I could really stand on a cliff and see a mountain off in the distance and say, oh, crap, I want to go to that mountain. And I could and I did.

And I mean, along the way, it's not as exciting as you get in, like, God knows, a game, like, you know, Zella Tears of the Kingdom or something. Like, oh, oh, boy, I found a treasure chest. So for the time, it was really cool. I don't know. Was that, like, the first experience with you when you first played this game? I'm thinking about it. And I think it is. Because nobody else had really done it like that.

Because I'm thinking to, like, Final Fantasy 10, which is the other big PS2 RPG. And, yeah, that was very much a guided experience where you just not really able to go anywhere. but it was pretty. And on the PS1, obviously you went to the overworld and it's just there. But this, you go out to the overworld, it's just there. You're exploring it like you would any other town. And it's just massive and sprawled out. But I think that also reminded me why I stopped playing Dragon Quest 8 originally on PS2

because I got the boat and I got lost. I couldn't figure out which town to go to next. And because of the random encounters, I got frustrated and stopped for a while and then never came back to it. And it works towards, it works very well when you're landlocked and only have only so many places to go. But as soon as you get anything that opens it up and you got to figure out where to go and you don't have those exact directions yet, oh boy, it can be rough. Yeah, as you know now, that is very much a Dragon Quest thing where it's like,

hey, everyone, here's a ship. Where do I go? Wherever you want. It's not really any rules. Thanks. I appreciate the openness. It's cool in that way. but it is so easy, especially in eight,

to just go where you're not supposed to and just get wrecked. Absolutely. Especially, I find Dragon Quest games are extremely merciless when it comes to enemies on the high seas. They can really throw some assholes at you. I think that's a truth. Ten squids, go for it.

Can I run? No. Yeah, have fun. It's essentially what it all comes down to. and I mean, I don't think it is certainly not the hardest dragon quest but it can wear you down especially with the original.

3DS of course solves that. Yes, it really can. So this has been like a really great discussion on what is a very influential Dragon Quest game, which has celebrated, it is celebrating, it's 20th anniversary this year. God, I can't believe it. To me, like I'm sitting there like five years ago, like I said, sitting in my friend's place on dial up internet playing half life too it all happened five years ago what do you say derrick oh yeah i was just hanging out in college not that long ago playing this in my room and just like

blown away by how pretty it looks and how much fun i'm having yeah that's that's that's only five years yeah absolutely oh goodness gracious me but yeah this is a fantastic game uh again one of the most important dragon quest games out there and especially for the west and we didn't talk about the story I mean, that's the thing. I liked the story, but for me, Dragon Quest is really more about the characters and the journey and, like, the visual storytelling, like I said, going across the planes chasing Dual Magus. Because, of course, Dragon Quest, like, you're chasing an evil clown named Dual Magus, and there's a curse and a king. And I have to admit, one of my favorite things about this game is that you can hear the carriage behind you. on the horse, princess, but you never really see them. You turn around.

It's a nice touch. I will say my general opinion in the story is I think it starts extremely strong, but it peters out by the end. It kind of does. I think, to be honest, like, it's just not the strongest aspect of the game, barring the character, voice acting, interactions, and whatnot. It's just, but that's always kind of been the thing with Dragon Quest. The overarching story is rarely impressive, and it's just more about how the characters interact

and what happens around them. So I can forgive Dragon Quest 8 for being a little bit forgettable in that regard. It still has some pretty cool moments. Like, you know, we haven't really had too many spoilers going on, but there's a little post-game or end-game twist that I think is kind of cute. Yeah, again, it feels like a precursor or a inspiration for Dragon Quest 11 greatly expanding that idea. Absolutely, yes. If you are any kind of a Dragon Quest 11 fan,

You will like Dragon Quest 8 a lot. It's still very playable, especially on the Nintendo 3DS. I wholeheartedly recommend it. And I am assuming you do as well, Derek. Absolutely. Good luck hunting it down. Hope for another port of that game because it's pretty expensive. And the e-shop, I think, is down now.

The e-shop is dead. I don't know if it was on the, it was on the e-shop to begin with. It must have been. I would imagine it had to have been, but I don't know if it. sure. I just know it goes for a lot, but it is it's great. The 3DS version is the best way to play it. I highly recommend it.

It's a really great entry point into Dragon Quest that sort of combines the old school and the new school. I think Dragon Quest 11 definitely leans more new school. Well, still being very classic, but you want more classic drag quest. Eight is where it's at. And then you can sort of expand your horizons from there. For sure. Yeah.

I think it is actually a very interesting bridge between the classic and the more modern Dragon Quest. You can really see where it all came together here, especially with the 3D backgrounds, the 3D traversal and the very animated battle scenes. First time getting 3D monsters as well, which is another big step up. Yeah, as I said earlier,

the animations, which were pretty groundbreaking for Dragon Quest 6 on the SNES, And then we had animations in Seven, which were also kind of stiff, but still kind of oppressive the fact that they were happening. Eight really just kind of takes those jerky movements and makes them into living animals, like living creatures and things like satyrs and slimes and all these fun things that you come up against, like snakes that look like dragons and dragons look like snakes. Like, Okiri Turyama never needed an excuse to draw a dragon. And that's one of the reasons I loved him so much. We will miss him very, very much. And things will not be the same without him, let alone Dragon Quest. No, it will not.

Oh, boy. I'll respect. So thank you so much, all of you, dragon warriors and questers alike, for tuning into this week's episode of Retronauts. If you support us, you can get episodes a week early and add free. All you have to do is go to our Patreon at patreon. 4-slash Retronauts. A ton of cool stuff there.

Cool exclusive stuff in our tiers, including bonus episodes, written content from our good friend Diamond Fight. Find out tons more at Retronauts.com. Derek, where the heck can we find you? You can find me over as part of the team at Good Vives Gaming over on YouTube. As you mentioned earlier, my most recent video is a look at Dragon Quest 2 and me playing through the original NES version and going over its history, the development, why it ended up so freaking hard, and kind of how it holds up nowadays, and what it does well, and why it kind of

fails in the grain scheme of things. So there is that. I'm also working on my newest video that I'm working on right now. I hope to have it up this week or the next is looking at the history of the mystery dungeon series and how you probably don't know this, but it's definitely more than Pokemon related and believe it or not, started out as a Dragon Quest spin-off. So have that connection there. Oh,

so you've gotten into Tornico. Yes, I've not played them, but it's sort of just an overview of the Mystery Dungeon as a series rather than me playing each individual one because I'd be here a while. Yeah, Mystery Dungeons

is a bit hardcore even for the likes of me, but I am looking very forward to that. Definitely looking forward to your Dragon Quest 3 retrospective slash review, play. I wholly recommend these videos. They're really great. I recommend everything by Good Vives Gaming. You guys do good stuff, and people should support you.

I appreciate that. Yeah, yeah. As for me, I am Nadia Oxford. I also go host the Axe of the BlogGat RPG podcast, aside from doing this at Axe of Blood God. We talk about RPG's old and new, Eastern, and Western. You can support us and all our really cool stuff over at patreon.com

forward slash bloodgodpod or just blood godpod.com. And until next time, remember, you can incinerate a man if you just feed a mouse some spicy cheese. We're going to be able to be able to be. You know,