Retronauts - 663: Golden Axe, First Swing

Episode Date: January 13, 2025

Ax Battler! Tyris Flare! Gilius Thunderhead! And the rest. Gipp, Linneman, Nickel and Feit begin their exploration of Sega’s belt-scrolling behemoth. Retronauts is made possible by listener support through Patreon! Support the show to enjoy ad-free early access, better audio quality, and great exclusive content. Learn more at http://www.patreon.com/retronauts 

This week in Retronauts, the Paddling of the Golden Axe with Paddles. Retronauts about Golden Axe, and that was an extremely funny Simpsons reference. Did it make any sense? No, it didn't. But don't think about it. Let's just move on. Let's just scroll to the right. You see what I did there? Another reference to, well, the first reference to Golden Axe, except for me mentioning the name Golden Axe, which is so perfunctory that it shouldn't even be considered a reference. I hope we don't get any complaints about that. Hello, once again. I'm Stuart Gibb. Who's with me today? Let's have a look. Well, it's a fighting sort of game, and you can't have a fighting game without fights. So, hello. Hello, everyone. This is and fight and what's the deal with Axe Badler? He doesn't battle with an axe. Yeah. That's great. Everyone loves Jerry Seinfeld right now. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's really popular.

You know, it's always a good idea to reference popular community and Jerry's. Wait, I'm sorry. I'm sorry I'm getting a note here. Apparently, no, no, we're not going to do that again. All right. Understood. Anyway, I'm here. Yeah, that was an alarmingly good Seinfeld, I thought. Well, I am a New York Jew, so.

Well, there we go. we go. Let me try and do another relevant thing. Now, the character acts battle is a man and we also have John Linnon, man, who is the word man in there. So that's the best you're going to get, John. Oh, that's better than what I've got. I mean, I was going to say something along the lines of I have my built. I've taken it off and I'm ready to scroll, something like that. That's not bad. Yeah. You know, we've got to be free, by all means use that. It's a hilarious joke. It's just, my little intro is just this new thing I'm trying out, you know. It works. It works. Okay, let me think.

Thomas, how can I do one for Thomas? Nick, Nick, Nick, Nick is British slang for steel and the little elves steal your magic in the bonus levels, and we have Thomas Nicol with us. Hello. Hello, now that is one fancy introduction. Thank you. So, and what I will do now, I will just open a nice bottle of Henninger beer,

which is a big inspiration for this game. I find that beer is a big inspiration for many of my best ideas, for example, falling down. In this case, it's literal. Yeah. Uh-huh. But today we're talking about the excellent and wonderful Sega series Golden Axe and what I would deem to be a reasonably overdue focus, maybe, on this series.

And you're just said to the game is excellent. Isn't that a nice start? It is excellent, isn't it? It is excellent, indeed. Yeah, yeah, it's solid gold. No questions axed. Oh, God. Oh, my, that's this whole episode, it's just.

going to be puns, but I love it. And we all know Golden Axe, because it's one of Sega's most ported, most compiled games ever. But I always feel like it's held a little bit of a second string Sega feel to it, not the game itself, but to its reception. People will go, oh yeah, now Golden Axe

I like that, and then they'll never play it ever, you know. But they're wrong. They're wrong not to play it. And I think we should discuss why that is. In the same order that I introduced, I'd like to find out what your sort of burgeoning initial thoughts about Golden Axard. So, Diamond, what about you?

Well, I encountered it as an arcade game, and we're recording this in 2024, so it's about perfectly 35 years ago, the Golden Axe release. And I was super into it. Obviously, at that point, you know, beat-em-ups were pretty hot, and this is essentially a beat-em-up with weapons, you know? I wasn't super into, like, the whole Conan Barbarian stuff, but I was like, okay, this is, it looks cool, it sounds cool, and I definitely played it at arcades whenever I found it. And then I believe, I'm pretty sure at the end of 1989, that's when I sold my Nintendo to get a Sega Genesis in the U.S. And I know for sure, as soon as I got my Genesis, I bought the Golden Axe port of, you know, for the home port, which was very

satisfying because it let me play a lot of Golden Axe are in my house. And boy, did I play a lot of Golden Axe. Just like I also played a lot of altered beasts and ghouls and ghosts and like all three of my initial Genesis purchases were arcade ports and I loved them and I put many, many hours for them. Very solid initial trio there, I have to say.

Well done. What a start for a megadrive, amazing. Yeah, I'm pretty sure my first megadrive game was like Bobsy or something, so I don't know. Maybe that's why I'm like this. Who knows? John, what about you? What's your experience?

with the old golden axe there. I like Diamond. I also experienced this first in the arcade during the boom of the belt scroller. You know, this final fight was big. This was around. I remember playing this at a,

I think it was a mini golf place, general custards or something that had one of these machines. That's a very unfortunately named mini golf place. Yeah, it is in retrospect, but they did at least make up for it with a golden axe machine. And turtles was there as well. And yeah,

I remember playing it there, but then not actually. seen it again until I played the Genesis version, although I think, no, I guess it would have been, so I'm kind of, my cousin also was like the only person I ever met in the US that had an Amiga computer. And I remember he had a version of Golden Axe on the Amiga that I remember thinking was neat, but not great. And this was before I was into like frame rates and stuff, but I was already like, this doesn't look smooth is the feeling I got, right? So when it, when I also played on Genesis, it kind of like

cemented in my mind that, oh, yeah, the Genesis is the better machine here compared to this Amiga thing. That's what Amiga don't. Exactly. I think your cousin was actually also, and remains to this day, the only person ever to own an Amiga in the United States. Dude, it was so weird.

Like, yeah, it was an unusual thing to see an Amiga over there, for sure. But, yeah. Come from you for that one. But weirdly enough, though, I also have to mention that I did actually have a very brief experience with golden x3 in the u.s because one of my friends chris who basically had everything including like a 3d oh they subscribed to the sega channel and i remember golden x3 appearing on

the saga channel and being like wait there's a golden x3 and being completely baffled by this and i didn't actually seriously play that one until much later uh and i eventually got the cartridge version of that but that always stick out with me as well Because, like, yeah, this was an early example of, like, quote-unquote, digital distribution affecting the availability of a game. I feel like early digital distribution has to be a subject for an episode at some point, Sega Channel and so television and stuff like that, we've got to do it. But, Thomas, what about you, what's your Golden Axe's potted history? Yeah, I guess I'm the odd manout here, because where I come from, arcades are not a thing at all, haven't been. and so my first encounter

was the IBM does part of Golden X which is interesting because it looks the part but of course it plays quite a bit different and it had just always this flair of the forbidden

because as you know Germany we have some strict laws Golden Ax was banned around here so Rimey Yeah it was a

What do you have instead of arcades though Like there must be something Spill Hallers Right It was Yeah no the thing is

German law basically equates arcade machines with all these games of chance, you know, all the... I see, gambling, exactly. And rightly so. If you have a place that has arcade games, they also have the gambling machines and all the people pulling the levers and pushing the buttons

and chain smoking are very unpleasant. You don't want to go there. Yeah, I mean, UK arcades, you're just pretty much the same to be honest, but we just didn't care. We don't care about anything over here. Right. That's why we have no history of banning things. I see where it got you But yeah Golden Axe

As I said It's the forbidden fruit in a way And A bit later on I bought the Mega Drive port One of the first games I got from Japan As an import

And man That was the real thing finally That was something else I initially encountered this game When I was a small child They used to be this kind of Air quotes Youth Club

Which I hate saying It's such a weird term But it was just like a place Where kids would go And hang out And you could buy like tuck and you could play on they had usually like an arcade machine. In this case

it was Blood Warrior of all things and they had a Mega Drive hooked up with the television up sort of on the ceiling so you had to break like crane your neck back to look at it while you were playing so you'd be gazing up with your mouth agate looking like a complete idiot but that's how I first

play Golden Axe I remember thinking like I didn't know about the arcade game but you just have a vibe you're just like this was definitely an arcade game you can just tell even if you have no cognizance of the arcade whatsoever and I used to run up against this game quite a lot because of the choices available it was probably the best one

that wasn't Sonic 1 and I thought it was great fun I loved the music the music is etched into my brain it's one of my earliest mega drive experiences and so formative that yeah I'm not sure I've ever beaten it

legitimately but I must have I must have it's not that hard I must have done it at some point I just wish that the health bar was a little bit easier to pass that's all you know I don't know how much health I've got at any given time really

But enough of this, enough of this, we should just jump straight in. In the notes, it has been written by someone, a miscreant, put no doubt, that altered beast might be mentioned as a lead up to Golden Axe. And that means we have to mention Alted Beast again. And reminding people of this is just, I'm just against it, but I guess we have to now. So what is the relevance that Alted Beast has to Golden Axe, other than that it has that one fella in it that's in both games?

Chicken Stinger. Chicken Stinger. Yes, that's the official name of that creature, the Chicken Stinger. You know, there's a place near my house that does Hot Wings that's called that. It sounds delicious, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, but the thing is,

of course, both games have this one creature in it, this little squat, pink thing with the beak and the long tail. But it's also made by the same guy. It's both produced by a man called Makoto Uchida, who was back then Sega's, obviously, guy for some sort of brawny barbarian actions with lots of muscles and all that stuff. I've got to be honest with you.

I give Gold to Beasts a hard time, but I do have massive nostalgia for it I actually do kind of like it, really. I'm just doing a bit, a funny bit. Oh, absolutely. That was the game that I almost certainly played before Golden Axe. It was a game that me and my friends talked about a lot. So I feel like when Golden X came out, I'm sure, even as a kid I saw similarities,

I definitely recognized the creature in being both, but it's like, it was definitely like, oh, it's another Sega game. Yeah, Sega makes cool games, you know? So, and like I said, when I got my Genesis, it was absolutely, you know, in America, at least, I don't know, of every territory, but in America, Orta Beast was just in the box, so I got that one automatic. Same here. Same here.

Yeah. I mean, Alter Beast, I mean, they both have fantastically detailed creatures, creature designs in there as well. And Alter Beast has some all-timers. Like that first box, come on. It's so cool. Yeah, they both. They both are so wonderfully chunky, I think, both games.

Yeah, agreed. And also, it has that voiceover that says, rise from your grave, which I will now do an impression. No, I'm not going to do that. Not this time. No, don't. I'm not going to do it. I'm not going to do it.

Okay. It is interesting, though. I have to wonder if a gold. Golden Axe being a pack-in instead of Altered Beast, I guess the timing wouldn't have worked, but I feel like that would have been even more of a success. I have to agree, to be honest. I think it was Altered Beast, and then it was... I like Altered Beast.

I think it's a good game, but I do think Golden Axe is significantly better, and it's also more of a co-op two-player kind of experience. One of the most commonly seen cartridges, I would say, in the UK, is the Mega Games 2 compilation, which does have Golden Axe on, which must have given it even more of an audience, obviously. I think it's that Revenge of Shinobi and Streets of Brazier could be wrong about that. But it's a hell of a package. One thing I want to note,

though, before we continue, is Richita San, that Thomas, you mentioned, he still works for Sega today. So he's still involved in modern Sega games. And there's a few old school Sega guys that are still there. They just never left. I guess similar to Nintendo

in a sense, but I think that's really cool, actually. There is a new golden axe coming, isn't there? have announced it. Oh, yes, yes. Something is happening, yeah. That's right. They're reviving several classic games.

We'll be very curious to see how that turns out. Street of Rage, Revenge or something, there's that Shinobi game that hasn't, that hasn't been announced to be being made by Lizzie cube, but clearly is. It is, yeah. Yeah. And Jetset Radio. Yeah, and Jetset Radio, yeah. Crazy Taxi, wow, yeah.

Wow, maybe they'll make a new Sonic. Oh, boy. You think? Maybe. Yeah. Man, that would be something. That would be something. I miss that guy.

Where is he? It's been months since his last game. But, yeah, no, let's get into the weeds with the initial golden axe, which was January 1988. Let's talk about the arcade version and then move on to the ports. Well, Stu, I think the first thing to note is it's kind of important to keep this specific period of time in mind because this was post-Double Dragon, right? Yeah.

But it was right around 1989 when all these other developers came out with their own takes on that sort of formula. And the formula actually predates Double Dragon. It goes back to, I guess, Spartan X and the like. So Irim had a hand in this, but the idea essentially is you control a man or woman or whatever creature you might play as in any of these games. And you walk around a field that's angled towards the camera so that you kind of walk in and out of the screen. You're fighting dudes before you reach the boss and you go do it again on each stage. And it was a huge deal in the arcades.

Capcom especially hit it big with Final Fight. And Konami as well got into it, though they got off to a slower start with some of their early stuff, like the Crime Fighters games. But, just for sort of clarity, Spartan X, that's Kung Fu Master, right? Yep. I believe, yeah, yeah. If you said that, I apologize, I missed it. I really did not. I did not say that, but yes.

Okay. Yeah, we should probably shout out to a friend of the show, Brian Clark, has been doing some videos on YouTube lately, just going through, you know, landmark belt scroller action. games, like one by one, and he's talked about, you know, he talked about Spartan X Kung Kung Master. He talked about Trojan. He talked about the master system, Hoketon Okan, Fist, the North Star game. So he's been going through these games one at a time. He's here I talked about Renegade. So I'm sure he'll get to Golden Axe, you know, when he gets to it. But yeah, 1989 in general was a pretty big year for the genre, because by this point, yeah, you've got a lot of takes on it. And I want to say, if memory serves me, final fight is like the end of 1989,

but really throughout but throughout 1989 you've got so many different versions of two or three or even four especially Konami by this point Konami's got the Turtles game which is four players so it's like you've got a lot of different versions of this thing

like just the end of the goal being get as many players as you can at once get them all in there and get them pumping quarters in the machine so they keep going they keep going and just throw enemies at them and you know I think in the years that would come a lot of them would turn into like sort of license

properties and, you know, oh, it's a bunch of popular characters that we borrowed from someone else. But in this case, Golden Acts is like, well, they are our own original characters, quote unquote, original, but really they're just sort of archetypes that we borrowed and some sound effects that we deliberately borrowed from some hit movies. Don't sue us, please. And unfortunately, this is a genre that was kind of a flash in the pan. It really only was popular for about three years, I would say.

Like, it did have a bit of a tale, but really, it was 1989 through like 1990. where it was huge, right? Yeah. Street Fighter 2 basically came and wiped it out, and we saw a lot fewer of these made. It's a shame because, like, some really good Capcom ones, like, you know, Battle Circuit Cadillacs and dinosaurs, all that stuff. Alien versus Predator must have been a little bit lost in the shuffle in that respect.

Yeah, I think they're beloved, but it just didn't have the same impact as these early games. In 1989, it was the... I should know if they are all on the beat-em-up bundle, you should play that. It's really good. Oh, yeah, that is good. But so, yeah, Golden Axe, though, was the one that kind of stood out a little bit because outside of the license stuff like turtles, a lot of these were kind of focused on that sort of 80s-ish movie style genre, you know, where it's like kind of the city streets, it's all it's edgy and there's punks on the streets, you get to clean them up. Yeah. Where a golden axe is like, well, yeah, it's just, you know, it's Arnold all waxed up and ready to go.

I'm going to be able to be. We're going to be able to be. We're going to be. Yeah, the thing is, the game has three major influences from what the developer said. There is, of course, Conan, you can't deny that, because look at the game, listen to the soundtrack, it looks the part, it sounds the part, X-Battler basically is Conan, Tyrus is Red Sonia, so you have, over there's a Connie Connect, of course. The movie was a big thing in the cinemas, and rightly so.

and then of course there's Dragon Quest that came out and from what he said is from what Uchida said he wanted to go a bit into the Dragon Quest direction for his next big arcade game but the higher upset Sega always told him to dial it back dial it back a bit more so all that stayed from

a dragon quest is a sort of a magic system but that did basically and the third pillar for Golden Axe is also what I found out the first feed fighter game because you have some sort of rudimentary special moves in this game that go

a little bit above what you have in final fight where you just press two buttons to make a special that costs your energy. Yes, we should probably talk about what those sort of your basic moves are in the game. I mean, I'm sure people know, but it's always worth refreshing them. I mean, your three different characters,

Axe Battler, Tyrus Fleur, Gillius Thunderhead, who's the little green dwarf fellow, who's just fantastic, isn't he? Isn't he great? Yeah, he just... But as as mentioned, Axe Battler, as mentioned by Jerry Seinfeld at the top of the episode, Axe Battle does not in fact battle with an axe. But if that's battle guys wielding an axe, here we go.

He does. Yes. So both Tyrus and Axe battle, I don't like to say, calling him Axe. Both Tyrus and Axe use just swords, like a sort of broad sort, long sword, that sort of thing. And Gillius uses, well, he uses a axe. But he spends quite a lot of the time bonking people on the head with the sort of hilt of the axe, doesn't he? It's a bit violent, really. Best thing ever, I think.

It is great. gold necks combo, just slash slash a couple of knocks and then you kick him away and it just feels great every time. This must be a pioneering game for the whole double tap to run thing, to speed yourself up to get yourself into like a shoulder barge. Yeah, that's the next very important move, very

important for the whole game design because I pretty much use it constantly, to be honest. It's perfect for crowd control because it puts the enemy back all the time. Yeah, and gets you away from them as well, using quickness. But every character's got magic we've mentioned and the magic the way that works, my understanding is that

it sort of goes in tears and the more sort of magic you have, the more powerful your spell is and slightly different, the effects of your spell are going to be, although they're generally just that they'll hurt everyone and knock them over and make them fall in their bum-b-bun. That's what it does. Yeah. What I like about the magic system is that it really gives the

character's sort of distinct features because control-wise, control-wise, they're all basically the same. I mean, Tyrus and X-Bettler are almost exactly the same, except one's a dude and one is a woman. You know, and their outfits are different. But basically, like, they have the same weapon. You know, their animations are very similar.

And, you know, the dwarf, of course, looks different. So he's got, you know, and he's using different weapons. So he's a little different. But basically, from an actual, like, melee standpoint, these characters are virtually identical. But with magic, it really feels different because they all have different sort of levels to their magic. Like, throughout the game, you collect these little potions. And depending on the character, you basically, you level up your magic faster. So it's like, do you want to pick a character?

character who has less magic, but they get, like, to their max faster, so they'll be using their magic more often? Or do you want to use Tyro's Flair like me and be a cool person? Because at her max power, a literal dragon appears in the screen and just breathes fire on everybody. And it's the best sound, it's the best, it's the best looking thing in the game. And it's super, super cool. And like, do you want to be that cool? Or do you want to settle for just like a little flash of lightning is the question? And that's cool because that, there is a bit of strategy there in terms of biting your time. Do you want to wait or you just want to use

it? But when you guys lay all that out, it is pretty interesting how for 1989 this game is pretty advanced because at the time most beat-em-us were still kind of the you have a jump button and you have an attack button, right? And this, you know, obviously

is a three-button game. But beyond that, it also kind of has a rudimentary grappling system where you kind of get in for your combo and you can kind of throw enemies as well. So you always have this kind of thing where you're going in. You can do some attacks, some combos, you reach up, you throw them, then you can dash to the other side of the screen, hit them that way, and then maybe unleash your magic.

And it kind of allows you to dart back and forth around the arena and really control the crowd in a way that's not really possible in other brawlers from that era. Like, I love the Turtles game, for instance. It's a cool theme, but it's very, very simplistic. Konami's Braw's Brawlers would get better, but that one is just, it's all flash. it really is just kind of mashing the attack button and getting through it, right? I think it's very...

No, no, I was just going to say, I like the fact that what you end up with is these big, burly characters you feel like they hit hard, but they don't feel leaden. You can get around, you know? You've got evasive, and that really gives it a really fun

sort of feeling of hands for one of a better sort of term. Sorry, Thomas, what were you saying? Yeah, just the later level in the game without court control, you don't stand a chance because enemies will encircle you. I mean, enemies are usually very stupid, but if they get you between them, then you're done for.

Then it really, really hurts. I think this is one of the more fair bolt scrollers that I can think of, because thinking back on it, I have definitely finished this one, and I can't think of many others that I have managed to complete, because at least without credit feeding, you know. Because the amount of evasive action that you've got and how powerful you actually are, the ability to regain your health and use your magic to crowd control even more if you need to. Like, I was only having a panic button, almost. By the way, I want to mention two more important moves for the game, because if you press jump and attack at the same time,

Tyrus Flay and Ex-Battler do this very nice-looking, swirly attack over the head and hit the enemy behind them, which it feels really good and satisfying. And Gileas has this rolling move, which gives him a bit of invincibility and really hits hard. So I think this move, you know what you're doing. It's so overpowered, especially against later bosses. but, yeah, that makes it so much fun again. I think, I mean, given they're all, you know, fueled by vengeance here, because, I mean, the villain Death Adder, sorry, death equal,

death is equal to Adder, I think their name is actually technically. What a cool guy, Death Adder is. I mean, not in terms of what he did, he's a dick, but, like, what a cool looking guy. So there's a layout. I mean, he killed... We have to cancel Death Adder here on this podcast. Death Adder is definitely cancelled. He killed Axebatel's father.

He killed Gilius's brother, but he killed Tyrus Flair's mother and father. What the hell? What the heck? I mean, I think she has every right to be pissed about it, to be honest. I mean, especially compared to X-Barre. You know, he also did, by the way. He did more stuff than that.

He stole the helm from the Holzer Doom of the Conan movie. Oh, wow. Yeah. That is something else. He also struck the Royals up. He just hung them up in the air. That's just rude, you know? Yeah.

And he's got the Golden Axe to boot. So, yeah, I guess he has it coming for him. He does, yeah. I mean, he deserves it, unlike most. video game villains, he really does deserve it. But getting to him. By the way, I have to mention one final move. It is just awesome because you mention the running, right?

So if you run, you jump, and then you press the attack button, you have this wonderful downward step that is very hard to aim, but does a ton of damage. Yeah, you jump super high as well. It's terrifying. And if you know how to position your enemies, you can kill some buses really, really nice with that. Because, as I said, enemies are not too smart.

They are not, indeed. So if you can get them to the... Bottom of the screen, usually you hit them quite well with your downward step. a little bit, because they're kind of the main thing you're going to be brushing up against in this game. Well, I think before we get to that, we should probably just mention the rideable creatures again, just because that was also,

that essentially expanded your arsenal, right? In addition to all the moves you already have access to, being able to ride like dragons, for instance, changes the game, but you have to balance it because it's easy to get knocked off and lose it again, right? Yeah, you really want to keep these guys for the bosses, because if you have a dragon at a boss fight,

then you're set, if not? Which is a huge part of the replayability, I think, because it challenges you to get good at capturing these guys and then holding onto them. And that's tough. Yeah, and of course, if you sit on a dragon at some point, enemies will try to knock you down. Yes.

Yeah, because they want to go on the dragon, don't they? Because you're hugging the dragon. So, both going to the dragon. And it's the old rule. You get knocked down three times, the dragon is gone. That's the thing I like about the mounts. The mount system to much to me is the fact that almost always they appear as an enemy. Like, an enemy will come in riding this creature, and your basic move is,

oh, I got to knock them off, and then I take it. And then I don't want to lose it, otherwise they'll take it back. And so you have this sort of seesaw battle going back and forth, because thankfully, yeah, again, we took the enemy AI. The enemy I think is pretty good as far as, like, positioning and trying to surround you. But, like, in general, they don't use, they don't use the mounts as smart as well as you can use it. So when you see an enemy appear, You have the advantage as far as getting them off it, but then once you have it, if you don't use it well, they'll just get it back, and then you have this sort of back and forth. But I also love the fact that when you have these creatures, you're still very mobile. You can still dash.

You can still jump, and all three of the creatures have slight different powers. I would say kind of, maybe the strongest one is the one that actually shoots a projectile fireball across the screen. Yeah, that's the red dragon, right? But the one that sort of, you know, creates a breath of fire, like, on the ground or front of them, like, kind of like Dawson's, like, yoga breath. Like, that's also very strong because, like, the breath lasts a while. And then you have the chicken singer, which is a very quick tail whip, which is, like, not great range, but it is fast. So all three of them have, have their uses, and all three of them, yeah, you can, you can sort of stunlock. If you get your enemies trapped in the corner, you can just, like, quickly whip, you know, whip and attack them, and they'll never get up because you'll just, you'll lock them out as soon as they get up.

again. And that shows again that the game is really, really lavish because the Red Dragon appears once in the entire game, and that's it. So they did that creature. They made its animation, they made its moves and everything for it to appear one single time. And that's, I think, I like that about it. That just went for it. I mean, it's the same with the magic again. Everybody has different levels, as we said, right? Terry's play has six levels of magic. Every level of magic has a different animation that comes out. So there's a good chance. You won't see of some of them ever because you save up for the big dragon of course. But yeah, they put all

that stuff in there because they could. I think detail is a good sort of watchword for the whole game because it's got beautifully detailed visuals. Oh yeah. I mean, we'll get to the port, but the megadrive version I think is honestly so impressive looking. Even now, it's so iconic looking. If we were going to

mention that then, I really have to gush about the background work because it does have this, it has a different look than usual. The colors are a lot more, I don't want to say washed out, but they don't go for these, these bold contrasting pixel colors anymore. It's more like this, like it almost feels like a painting brought to life. And some of the scenes that you'll engage with are extremely creative, such as the one

where you're essentially riding on a griffin. So it's got all like the feathers and everything, kind of, they're not animated, but it looks, it's cool and epic. And the game in the arcade version manages to sort of get rid of that tiled-based look that you'd often see in games from that period, you know what I mean, where you can kind of see the squared off nature of the different pixel art tiles as to piece together, or this has more of an organic look with like gnarled trees and roots running through a scene and this like stonework, uh, kind of thrown in there.

Uh, it, it looks really good. My only complaint, it's, I think the sprite work is fine, but I don't think it's as good as the background work. And I think it's a step, it's, it's not on par with something like final fight from Capcom, I would say. They're a little bit smaller. There's fewer animation frames. They don't quite have the same impact compared to that. And of course, there's fewer guys at all.

Yes, exactly. So it's a good-looking game for its era, especially the backgrounds, but it's not like, it wasn't pushing any technical boundaries yet, which is something Sega would begin doing not too far after this, I would say. For me, one of the things I think about a lot when it comes to beat them-ups especially is how much does this game feel like you're going on a journey? And I think Double Dragon does it very well, because even though it is sort of like a generic city background,

at least in the arcade version, you're going from place to place level, and you see the characters progress to these different parts, and you never lose contact with the character. It's always a seamless transition. And this game does break it up a little bit because you have a map screen, but the map screen is a sort of,

it looks like an old scroll, and like you see like a quill, drawing on it and all the levels have a sort of different field of them and the game goes out of its way to explain oh now we're in the village and now we're riding this thing and now we're going over here and now we're at the castle so it really does

even more than something like say a ghouls and ghosts and a final fight which have like sort of map screens that show you where you are. Yeah. This game in particular really goes out of its way to communicate to you about a heroic journey where you're going and where you've been

and I think it really sells the whole experience, which I think some of the later games, I think, fall flat on because they don't get it, they don't get it right, like this game gets it right. You can look at it, just sort of a microcosm, even, the first stage of the first golden axe, when you make your way through the word to the village that's being under siege, to the end of the village where you face off against, like, the generals, you know, the two big, um, uh, bald fellows who were just laughing at how rubbish you are until you absolutely batter them, uh, as is it want. But then after that, of course, you know, the stage where you're on the back of like a giant eagle.

and you get that feeling of propulsory forwards. A Griffin sort of thing, yeah. Yeah. It says eagle in the in-game text. Oh, okay. Yeah, I guess you're right. Yes, you're right.

You see his face when you walk back onto land and it is more of a giant eagle. But Stu, I think one thing to mention to add on there is like, so that first stage, obviously, it transitions from sort of day to evening. So you're fighting the bosses at dusk. And then you get the bonus stage, which appears with the little half-ling

It's running around, right? And I think that also sort of helps tie everything together because it shows your warriors resting. Like in this case, it's at night with a starry sky, they're asleep, and then these guys show up and you take them out and try to steal those bottles back from them. But that also kind of gives the impression of, yeah, your warriors need a break, and now it's going to be the next day. And then it shows the map and you're on your journey to the next area. Yeah, it does have a sense of the epic sort of journey that you're going on there. It's very, very cool indeed. Um, now...

The enemies. Yes, the enemies. The many enemies that you meet, all of whom are named after delicious adult beverages. That's the case. For example, let's have some examples. examples of those delicious beverage enemies. Sure, of course.

The first one you meet is either the Longmole or the Henninger. The Henninger is the bald guy with a mustache and wielding this maize-like weapon. And the Longmone is the guy in the helmet with the horns wielding the club. And, yeah, Henninger is a beer from right around the corner here. So that's what this guy is named after. There's a Henninger Tower, right, in Frankfurt. Yeah. Didn't see any of these guys in there anyway so far, sadly.

maybe lucky you don't know. There should be enemies called like Pilsner, Raquel, and Hofmeister and things like that. It would be funny. Little Hoffmeister reference for the old English people listening to this. Yeah, remember the Hoffmeister bear. Follow the bear listeners, follow the bear.

No one's going to get that. I think they rename these enemies, Thomas, in the US, to coffee and tea, just in case. Did they? That's pathetic. No, no, no. Okay, oh, yeah. This isn't a Nintendo game, Thomas.

I believe you. I completely believed you. It's so believable that they would do that. Exactly. It feels like very true to those times. So yeah, but anyway, these two guys are your basically go-to-stand-the-enemies. They come in various colors. The green ones are rather weak.

The blue, the red ones are rather strong. You have the made of copper. They have black ones on the eagle. They're all with slightly different attributes in terms of speed and in terms of how they dish out damage. and I think the third big one are the women wielding the axe and they are all named after different sorts of vodka so for example one of them is named after this Polish vodka

that contains one strand of a certain type of grass buffalo grass it's called great stuff these are the I think the three most normal enemies do you have a name for the skeleton it's called skeleton oh they didn't come up with anything there but yeah I think can we agree we hate the skeletons?

Yes. I can't bring myself to hate any skeletons, to be honest. I'm just a big skeleton stand. So whenever they appear, I'm just like, let's go. This game's got good-ass skeletons. I really like them. Yeah, this thing, like, they're frustrating to deal with as a player, but I think, like, as video game enemies go,

these are, like, some of the coolest skeletons ever seen. Like, they're, oh, yeah. They always, they burst out of the ground. They make cool sounds when they come at you. They attack really, really fast, and it's just kind of really intimidating. Like, you actually get scared. That whole part of the game actually is really cool when you first beat the skeletons

because you're already on the eagle and it turns in nighttime so that it gets dark and all of a sudden, yeah, the skeletons come bursting out of the ground, you start to see those shadow enemies appear, they sort of like just fade in from nothing. And it's like you're like, it's kind of spooky all of a sudden. This game gets a little like, you know, oh geez, where am I going? Where is this, you know, what's happening? You feel like you're entered more dangerous area. Yeah.

They give you a bit of a head up because at the end of stage three, you have your fire skeleton coming up, but just coming from off the screen and already, okay, it's a skeleton. What's wrong here? So far, you just fought barbarians and dragons and everything. Suddenly here's skeletons. Things are getting weird now. And of course, afterwards, as fights, it just ramps up. That it does.

I think I would have felt very short change without skeletons, to be honest. They've got to be there. Like, you can't have a game like this without including a fight with some skellies. Make no bones about it. They have nice shields with a skull on them. Yeah. So, of course, mean skull, they're the baddies. well I think going back to going to the point that John made I feel like it is true

there's not a lot of enemy variety in this game because basically there's only a few models and they just keep repeating them and by change of the colors and it is it is good that the colors communicate to you like threat level like if you see an enemy and then you see it later on again and it's got darker colors you're like oh oh oh this one's like this one's more dangerous yeah that's dragon quested over again yeah but ultimately yeah there's a pretty small number of enemies you actually fight. I mean, in the case of the home port, though, I think it works the advantage because the home port then gets to keep all the enemies.

I feel like if they put too many enemies in, then maybe the home port would have had to cut some. But in this case, everyone you've seen the arcade game, I'm pretty sure shows up in the home version because they just color them up. It's fine. I think it makes, I mean, not that you're saying it, it's a bad thing necessarily, not that you are saying that, but it makes up for it with its variety and the fact that it's not that long of a game, really.

Yeah, I think 15, 20 minutes basically. The stages aren't too long either. It doesn't outstay. It really outstay. It's welcome. So you're constantly getting variation, and you're getting your little rest sequences so you can build yourself back up again. And I think pacing-wise, this is one of the best Bolt Scrollers ever made,

especially on the Mega Drive. I really agree. It feels really, really great in terms of pacing. And, I mean, every time I see a copy of the games away, I have to play it, and I usually all to finish it then, because it's just a nice fun, 20 to maybe 25 minutes. You had a good time. and, yeah, it's just get to get the blood pumping, you know?

Yeah, absolutely. It's really good for that. A nice quick romp. Yeah. Also, of course, we have two boss-type enemies. Three of them. We have the guys with the hammer, which I think really iconic, you know, standing there laughing at you, hammer over the shoulder,

and then they attack with kicks and with their hammer strife. They just have this wonderful, fully fump sound. It's great. You love fighting these guys. I think those guys turned up in that unusual dream. game Sega Gaga as well they're in that Oh yeah

I mean they are so iconic they even in the title screen of the Sega Ages games on the switch Yeah yeah Sometimes it's always random what comes up But yep they are in there

So we should talk about the death adder and the ending. Yeah, the ending especially. Before we get into the ports. But the death adders, I mean, it's a fairly, I mean, it's a reasonably standard boss fight. It's not unfair. He's got his wake-up attacks. he does do a lot of damage, and he's got his little flunkies. More skeletons.

Yeah. But, you know, they're eminently beatable, and when you do beat him, there is a tremendous act of violence that occurs to his body when the axe, his axe at that time. Gertes kind of spiled into the air and just lands in his chest cavity, which is spectacular. And a very satisfying ending, I think, before the main ending. Also, very bloody.

Yeah. In the arcade, at least. But yeah, tell us about the ending of this game, of the arcade version. Oh, man. So I can do it if you want. No, by the means. Okay, so essentially basically, it breaks the fourth wall, which is a fun thing, because it shows like a couple kids playing a Golden Axe arcade machine

in a Japanese arcade, actually, based on the buildings outside, and all the creatures from the game essentially bust out of the machine and chase them out of the arcade and down the street. Which is hilarious. That's magnificent. It's so good. The heroes chase after them, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

They're in there, too. And what's interesting is that it's a total, like, visual shift from what the game itself normally looks like, and it kind of has that, like, dark night, bluish hue that you would expect from, like, say, the yet unreleased Streets of Rage series. It is very suited. I wonder if it is, like, a little subtle, like, nod at it sometimes. Probably not, but, like, I'd love to think. that like somehow they were connected in that way through this ending um so the ports because there's a lot

of them okay stew i i i have a list here i've written down a list yeah uh if i if i may because the ports that is my thing i i love ports and this is the one golden axe game that has a lot of ports so obviously uh so chronologically speaking so the arcade game is 89 we also got a megadrive slash Genesis version, and then a master system version. There was also an Amiga version that followed the next year, along with a DOS version, Thomas played, an AtariST version, and then a C-64 Amstrad CPC, Zetix Spectrum version as well. So a lot of computers there.

I think in that same year, we also got the PC Engine CD version, followed by, then there was the compilation. version that appeared on, and I have it. It's the... Mega CD, right? Yeah, it's the Sega classics collection for Mega CD. They added the arcade sounds

and new music for that one. Am I imagining that? I actually need to double check on the sound. They changed sounds, but not for the better, I'd say. Right, right. Because some of those CD games had different sound and, like, tweaks made to it, but by and large

they were pretty similar. There was an emulation version of this released on the Dreamcast at some point. But then we have... Yeah, it's because it's early emulation, not good. Is that from the Sega Smash Pack? I think so, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I think it was Steve Snake's emulator, but... Oh, blime. Which he's done good work, but, like, yeah, for that era, it was not great, and the sound was horrible. Yeah. Then there's the two portable ones that I think are interesting. Of course, it's the Game Boy Advance port, but the one that I think is better is Wonder Swan Color.

It's amazing. I wrote it that before this, because you were telling me about it, and it seems, It looks so good. Yeah, and if you see it running on a real Wonder Swan, like, Crystal, even though it's a non-backlit screen, it has a really nice look to it. It's a very sleek-looking game with a lot of frames of animation. That is so bonkers to me, because Wonder Swan, I believe, is like 99 or 2000. Like, that's a 10-year-old arcade game at that point.

Yeah, no, the Wonder Swan is nuts. Like, the hardware is way, the hardware is not as powerful as GBA, but it's actually pretty close in a lot of ways so it was it was more capable than you would have expected for that time and that version is great looking but then the following year we had the Sega 3D ages version and this is before M2 and others get involved in this this was the early days and this one it plays perfectly fine but they tried to remake the visuals in polygon form and it's ugly as heck it does not look good. I like the fact that every time you swing your sword and hit someone

there's an explosion, though. That's cool. Yeah, I mean, but it just, it feels stiff and ugly, and it's not a good-looking release. It's also much too long, anyway. Yeah, and it's just altered. If you want to play that on your PS2, there's a Sega classics collection that ported

a bunch of the old Sega ages into there. And honestly, I think it's worth having, not to play this, but there's some good stuff on there. I remember Alien Syndrome being pretty, good on that. And I can say one good thing about this game, it has a really good music. Oh, yes. Oh, for sure,

for sure. Can I also mention, though it's very tangential, the PS2 version of Dynamite Decker has a mode where you play as Tyrus Flair and X-Bass, I believe. I feel like the PS2 Seg A just would make a good episode in general, actually. I think you're right, and I think we should definitely do it. That's two so far.

Put that on the list. Put that on the list. I will. I would love to talk about those, but we'd have to that would be at least five episodes. That would be a lot. So obviously, then, Golden Axe continued to appear in various Sega collections after that, I believe. It's on all of them. Yeah, it's everywhere.

Sega, what is it called? Sega collection on the PSP, PS2, there's the Sonic's Ultimate Genesis collection that's on there as well. Yeah, and the most recent one, Sega Genesis collection, it's on there too, obviously. It's on the Switch now, of course. Yes, it is.

There is. Can I talk briefly? Sorry, John. If you're in Florida, I want to interrupt you. Well, I want to finish up the port section. By all means. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Because there was also a mobile version for Java phones. Oh, that's got to be fantastic.

But before we go back, I want to quickly talk about some of the details on these. Yeah. Because this loops back around to a hack version that was released some years back. I can't remember, it was fairly recent, actually, now that I think about it, a reworked version of Golden Axe for 32X. Oh, wow. that's pretty recent yeah that's very recent actually and that version takes the arcade backgrounds among other things and essentially transplants that into the game so it feels like a fusion of the arcade game

with a bit of the genesis game as well yeah they've added in some of the missing animations and things like it's awesome it's a really good version but it is missing one tiny detail that irks me to this day and this goes back to the genesis port yeah the genesis This port was really good for the time, but first of all, it's missing parallax scrolling. That's a pet peeve of mine, right? Most Genesis games have that, and for some reason, the port of Golden X one does not. So they took that out. Secondly, the Genesis version has much more garish colors.

I think you guys could agree. Like, the arcade has a very soft look to it with, like, hues that I would almost describe as more what you would see on Super Nintendo later on, where the Genesis game is a bit garish. I actually, I have to be honest, and maybe this is sacrilegious, but I kind of prefer that. That's okay. It's just, it's quite different is all. I feel like the Megadrive version, the backgrounds and the sprites, as you mentioned, the Megadrive version, they're not quite on a par with one another.

Like, the backgrounds are significantly more advanced than the sprites are, not that they're bad sprites. But with the Megadry, since you don't have that, I feel like it's more cohesive visually. And I like the detail of it. And I like the sort of slight darkness of it as well. It makes it feel grittier and more high fantasy. But that's just my personal take. I can actually get on board with that, Stu. That's an interesting point.

You're right, because the sprites actually do feel more connected to the backgrounds on the Genesis version in a way. I mean, for me, the Mega Drive version is the formative one for me, because just me sitting back, seeing that absolutely amazing title screen with the letters spinning around coming to the rest and that don't, do, don, don't, don't, it's badass. So the key to the Genesis port, and the reason why it was very good. good for the time is like it plays the part it plays at the arcade game the contents there it feels great to play the the drawback to the visuals are minor and like and you said stew it could be argued that they're better in some ways right most of the other versions from that era however had serious technical issues uh whether it's master system amiga any of the other computers they all run at a much lower frame rate like we're talking in 15 20 fps at most

Like on Master System, for instance, I believe they use the background tile trick to do, I was going to say Sprites, but essentially one trick on the master system is because you could, with the way tiles work in the master system is you can flip them to face left or right, which is unusual because usually that was reserved for sprites only, but you could do it with tiles in the master system. And so a lot of games would use background tiles to create characters. That's how you've got like Mortal Kombat with the big looking characters on Master System and game. gear. And I think that's what they... Oh, the buzzes and dragons trap. Yeah, and I think that's what they've done here to make all the big sprites

and have things on screen without a lot of flicker so that they use background tiles. But they can't update the background tiles as smoothly or at the same rate as sprites. And so the whole game is very choppy. Yeah, although it's interesting that the character sprites and the master system version are actually larger

than they are in the Mega Drive. And I think it's because of that, because they're not actually sprites at all. It's just with background tiles, they could do that. but as you see, they're, like, super choppy-looking. And I think that version you can only play as Axe Battler, if I recall, is that right? That's right. The most fundamental problem with that, and with many of the ports that, of course,

the Mega Drive sidesteps is no multiplayer, you know? Right, right. Who wants to play Gold and X by myself, but, like, you really want the option there to have others in it. I mean, just Axeater. I mean, it's not Golden Axe if he can't play as a very least Gileas Thunderhead. What you can do at least is you can choose the magic you want to equip before you start the game. That's true.

And I also want to shout out the title screen for the Masters and Version is actually quite badass as well. That's true. Bronze picture of Axe Battler with flashing logo. It's very cool. Now, I also, like, I'm confused by stuff like these, the Amiga and ST ports. you guys looked at those? Yep. Because you look at that and you're like, did they, like, I'm wondering if they practiced

what we often heard about back then, where it's like they basically have an arcade machine and they're tasked with copying the game based on what they see as opposed to like having source code access, right? Yeah, that was, yeah, that was, I think that was quite, I don't want to say common, but it wasn't unknown. That's what it feels like to me. Like, these games both look weird. Like the art is like vaguely.

golden axe, but everything is distorted, especially the ST version, where you're just like, this doesn't look right. Like, how did they make this? Because it doesn't really look like Golden Axe anymore. Like, it kind of does, but like all the colors, the shapes, the way everything's designed, it's just

very strange. And the Amiga and ST is also fairly wretchedly slow. Like, the frame rate is okay, but the characters move too slowly. And it's... Obviously, the 8-bit micros, they're limited by what they are, and they're not too bad considering that. But I think the biggest disappointment for me was the PC engine

version, just because the PC engine is really capable of some strong color usage and also some pretty complex background work, like that, that's where it excels. It was weak in terms of parallax scrolling, which isn't that important for this game. But in the end,

this is just kind of an ugly version looking. It's an ugly looking version of Golden Axe with strange drab colors. The sprites look wrong. It doesn't feel smooth. Like, nothing about it feels good. It's super bizarre when you compare it things like Gradius 2 and Daimakamara and

what I don't remember is is this a super CD-ROM or PC, let me look at the packaging actually for this. I can't remember. And it was ported I guess by Nihon Telnet as well, so, which they were hit or mixed, but yes, this looks to be

an original CD-ROM-ROM game because they introduced the super CD-ROM-format and then the arcade one later, both which added a lot of memory. And PC Engine could do a lot more with that. Right, right. I am not that familiar with PC Engine.

I didn't realize it was more than one CD format. So this is, I'm learning today. And if you look at, like, if you look at packages on your shelf, for instance, the original ones have like a green spine, which is just like the CD-ROM, ROM, and then you get the pinkish purple one for the super CD-ROM. And those games all tend to be a lot more advanced in terms of what they're pushing, just because they have a lot more memory.

to work with. And this being an older CD-ROM game, I guess that explains. Also, if it's like a round, yeah, this was still early in the CD's life cycle, I'd say. So it's a bad version by a third-party company

early in the system's life without the memory of the super CD-ROM. So when you look at that, it does make more sense. But even still, I think they could have done better. I want to mention, you mentioned it very briefly in passing,

but the Megadrive version also added the dual, a secondary mode to the game, which was... Right, yes. I used to find fascinating. What it essentially is, you're on the battlements of the castle and you'll fight a series of enemies in order

and they get progressively more and more. It is cool. There's not a huge amount to it, but it is cool. And they also have, if memory serves, are fairly easy to access cheat mode by holding B and pressing start, which will let you choose how many lives you have, how much health you have, et cetera, et cetera.

That's right. So the Mega Drive, for me, kind of the definitive home port, For me, even over... Absolutely. Especially for the time. It has a whole extended ending. Like, you know, normally in the arcade version, you get up to the final castle, the big doors open, death adder comes out, and you're like, oh, oh, here's death adder.

We knew he was coming. And you beat him, and, you know, the king and queen or princess, whatever, come down, and you think it's over. But in the home version, it's like, no, please help us. And you go inside the castle. And there's a whole new level inside the castle with even more enemies. Obviously, they're the same enemies, but they're the same enemies. just, you know, there's more of them. And then you fight a second death at her way.

I think it's called Deathbringer, I believe. Yep. And I want to say, going back to your point about colors, I believe he's like purple and green. Like, he's pretty, pretty darkly looking. Yeah, yeah, you're right. And he can, I know he can, like, use magic against you. And, like, he can, like, hit the ground and, like, shoot, like, look shockwaves at you. Like, he's very powerful.

Right. He can summon, like, the dragon, of course, with the magic. Exactly. That's awesome. So it's a really, you know. We talked about how well-paced the arcade version was, but I feel like by adding that one extra level and having one more fight, I feel like the Mega Drive Genesis version, I think just goes over the edge, like, okay, we know you think the game's over, but here's, well, here's one more for you, and I think it's just super cool. I just think all around it works beautifully. Dang, that's a good point. And then, of course, they have to change the ending again because it's not an arcade version anymore. Right.

So they have a different ending, which unfortunately is not as, it's not as cool as the arcade version, but it's kind of, they're basically playing baseball. It's kind of amusing. I would have loved if they... Yeah, you get all the other big names as well. Oh, yeah, that's true. I would have loved, though, if they did a recreation of that in, like, somebody's home or something. They're gathered around the TV playing the Genesis

and the creatures bust in. The Death Adder is just a bunch of snakes that become a bloke, isn't it? In the arcade series, yeah. Yeah, it's messed up, man. And what's interesting about this, by the way, is all the versions you talked about right now are usually based in the arcade game.

So they end after you forced Deathadder. The DOS version, is based on the Mega Drive game which has an additional level in the end. Yeah, the Death Springer. Although the DOS version is interesting because the visuals are actually closest to the arcade for that era.

It looks really good. It's just really choppy. Yeah. I think it's literally like 15 frames per second, which, you know, there was a time PC gamers when the PC was not the place to play action games.

The graphics were way too slow. It relied on bitmap graphics. It couldn't do like the Tile and Sprite acceleration, of consoles and arcade boards. So side-scrolling games like this were very slow on the PC, and this is definitely a case. But I think this is better than stuff like, if you remember like the Simpsons Arcade

and other games that that also showed up on DOS, they look a lot worse than this. This actually does look like the arcade game. It just doesn't run smoothly. Yeah, the PC version, as you say, I mean, it's choppy and its animation. The frame rate's not bad. It's not smooth

It's pretty low It's way below 30 FPS Well if you over clocked it The problem with a lot of these games on DOS Is that they were built around a specific clock speed And so if you would speed up your PC Like if I try to play this on my Pentium 3 retro PC here It would likely just run way too fast

Yeah, yeah I looked at I looked at video of this ones I haven't currently got a DOS sort of set up And it does look too fast and everything that I've managed to find of it, so I wonder if nobody knows the true speed anymore of PC Golden Axe.

Now, we've spent a lot of time, rightly so, on the original Golden Ax and its ports, but... I'd like to maybe mention one or two more things, if that's okay. Yeah, by all means, yeah, absolutely, yeah. Because I think, again, the Megadraft pod is quite interesting because, of course, there's a bit of stuff missing. It's one of the screams missing,

because we didn't even mention that properly, because the enemy screams. One of them is taken from Conan, from the Battle on the Mount and the other one is taken from First Blood you know the Oh God scream

and that one was removed on the Mega Drive version it doesn't exist there sadly quite a few people on this game also went on to make my beloved Fantasy Star 3 afterwards

The King of RPG The King, absolutely If you look at both of them You can see certain stylistic similarities at least You can't see they just came from Golden Axe and there's all this

weird stuff in the background for example when you when you're in the village and you fight the two the two giant with the hammers a second time

the second bunch of them there is this writing DEB on the at the door did you ever notice that yeah that is yeah so what's up with that so my theory is

it's supposed to say bad but of course in Japanese it's read from right to left in that case so yep that's how they wrote it then then there's somewhere

49-49 hidden then there is R&D number one somewhere so they put a lot of weird stuff in there it's fascinating so they're not like Easter eggs like dev like signing their work kind of business yeah I think so probably something like that

and of course the ending as mentioned we have some credits here and all of them are the way of pseudonyms you can think of not one real name Thank you. Now, And it's still the most beloved iconic Golden Axe game. But I'm thinking now, we're definitely going to need a sequel to cover all of these sequels and follow us. But I think we should talk about the next Golden X game chronologically, because it's a bit of a departure, which was 1991's Golden Axe Warrior for the Sega Master System.

Uh-huh. So weird. Anyone out there familiar with this one? We'd like to me something very frustrating. I used to own this, and I sold it for not very much money, and now I wish I hadn't, because it is. quite valuable. Oh, well, still, I can leave it there. I own it as well. I still

own it, but a friend of mine dropped it years ago, and the board is cracked. Great. Nice going. It doesn't work anymore. Friendship ended permanently. In this case, actually, yes, not because of that, but because of the giant idiot. Okay, fair enough. See, now I'm worried that

being a giant idiot is a prerequisite to ending a friendship, because I feel like I may be doomed. I could end up alone at this rate. Well, Stuart, don't worry about that, but I mean, you are not the kind of person the ghost the stars of troopers and then joins the army because this is why they make a man out of you. Yeah, I wasn't plans to do that

next month or anything. So Golden Axe Warrior, it is a Zelda, the original Legend of Zelda, we're talking about here, a clone, and it is a clone, it's a blatant clone. Yeah. But it's really good, isn't it? It's actually really good. It's a lot of fun,

and it kind of expands and builds on the original Zelda in some ways that will be reflected in the actual Zelda series. Yeah, you know, the thing is, I think it is a more fun game of course because it's a five years newer than Zelda so yeah right standing on the Toyota of Giants and everything

yeah Stu let's be fair here though I'm always impressed by how cute it looks oh it does this is more of a Nutopia clone if you will I'll find it's a Nutopia clone it's that thing you just said it's a clone of that I kid yeah I mean it has the sort of

quasi like almost I mean it is top down but it has that lovely sort of quasi quasi-isometric look to it is it a very clean very clean graphics. Just like Utopia. I'm always, whenever, just like Utopia. Whenever I course it's like Utopia,

how could I have forgotten Utopia? But whenever I look at this game, I always find it remarkable just how impressive it does look and play. It has beautiful colors, I think. Yeah, it's so clean. And I wonder why more people don't, I guess the reason is because it was on the Master System. You know?

The Master System, 1991 in the Master System. Yeah, I mean, for Europe, that's nothing. That's like mid. Yeah, sure. For me, that's just let's go. That's early years. I didn't even have a mask system at that point. But who has played this one?

I did. I bought it when it came out back in the day. And played it on my Mega Drive with the adapter. That's a very cool way to play it. I've played it but not finished. I did finish it back in the day, and I had a great time with it. Yeah, it's got like 10 dungeons, hasn't it? You've got five dungeons, and you can sort of unlock the other five until about

because you beat them, right? Yeah, it's a really interesting structure, and it's a really expansive, interesting game. Can I just say that in this game, Axe Battler, who you're a sense to be playing as, looks so much like the Dragon Quest guy. It's not even funny. Like, it's just him. He sure does. Yeah.

He's got a helmet now. So, yeah, it's very, it's, he looks a lot. He looks much more like Dragon Quest guy than he looks like Axe Battler does in the Golden Axe. So, yeah. Something I found funny that I think Thomas added to the notes is the British really disliked it, because he got like a 40 in me machine. And when I saw that, I was like, no, he didn't. I'm sure that game reviewed well on Sega Power.

And I looked it up and no, not really. They gave it like 68. Goodness knows what's going on. I'll tell you this, Stu, my boss, Richard Ledbetter, used to write for mean machines back then. And he has it on record as to hating the master system. He always says it's only the master of evil. So anything master system related, I feel, you can expect that Rich Led better at anyone around and probably isn't going to like it very much.

More like Rich led worse. How about that? Yeah. The theory is that, like, they were all playing these cool import games all the time and, like, new hardware was in the offices, and then they get tossed a master system game and, like, nobody wanted to touch it, which is kind of not great. It's disgraceful for the master system. It's a disgrace. I'm going to spread this, and mean, machine's reputation will be destroyed. It will be in tatters.

now who's the job that that's my that's my thought on that perhaps uh though i'm not sure who actually reviewed it back then but i think it was just they people working at the magazines weren't really into the masters anymore and especially to them with access to bigger and better things it just felt outdated and uninteresting and they probably didn't necessarily give it a full chance especially since it is a it is sort of a Zelda one like experience So it's, you know, it's a little more complex than that, but Zelda was years old at that point, right? I, yes, it was. I think, because this is my forte, so you've got me interested in it now, I apologize, but I think with Sega magazines, for example, like UK Sega magazines, like Sega Power, which was initially just S, the Sega Mag, and it only covered the master system, because that's all there was.

I guess the enthusiasm was there to some extent, but something I find very funny is that the magazine's Sega Force from initially Newsfield, split off in 1993, and there was a dedicated Sega Master System magazine in 1993. Ninety-three? Oh, boy. Of course, it only lasted about six issues, and it was about the size of a pamphlet, but what were they thinking? Full on Angry Video Game Nerd style, what were they thinking right there? Did they have the Lion King on the cover?

Like, what was even coming out for the master system at that point? Yeah, that's a really good question. And what to combat? Because the first issue, and the first issue, it's like land of illusion and that's one of what I consider a very late master system game you know it's crazy they could have just shifted to game gear then yeah they could have but they didn't ship the whole thing down to south america where the mess system would rule for any of any more years you know translated to portuguese and you're set

issue number one singer master's force cover my robocop three oh dear mortal combat cover two oh dear um chuck rock two son of chuck let's just stop this there's no need for this Okay, I've come around. Chuck 2 is actually a great game on the Genesis, but Master System version, not so much. Not so much. I mean, it's okay, but yeah, Chuck 2 is great. That's why there's going to be a Chuck Rock episode at some point.

Another one lined up. Caveman games, it's happening. Golden Axe Warrior, though, very good, quite expensive now. Do give it a go. It's on the Sega Sonic's Ultimate Genesis collection, I think. It's on there as one of the unlockable bonus games, which is very cool. Is that the PS2-1? I think it's a PS2 one where it's on.

Oh, okay, is it? All right. I thought it was the 361. I could be completely mistaken. But it's definitely unlockable on one of those. Yeah. Man, the one thing that really sticks out to me about this game, though, is just like it really shows how strong the color palette capabilities were of the master's system.

Because it's got a beautiful look to it. Like, Zelda looks very, you know, of its time. It's very limited by the color palette of the NES and a lot of its weirdness, especially with things like yellows and greens, where they're just kind of, kind of not great right and this just looks so vibrant and colorful and just nice it doesn't like I feel like the visual

is here with just a little bit of work wouldn't have been out of place on the Genesis itself honestly yeah I mean it does look very close to some early Genesis games I think I'll hold my hands up at this point and as I said off mic earlier today I will admit that the spectrum

is bit shit like I'm not going to pretend it's not the master system though you drag that from my cold dead hands. That thing fucks, okay? I'm not having it. I mean, you know what the German Press had back in the day? This is the game that is a good reason to buy a MAD system converter

because there's nothing like on the Mega Drive at this point. No Crusader of Senti just yet. No Senti, no Lans talk, and nothing. If you want action adventure stuff, that is the game you should play. Yep. And yeah, I agree. I had a great time with it. It's a second game. Did you ever play this one Diamond, by the way,

much of it? No, I was not a mess system kid, so Well, I would, I played a fair than a messison games, but, yeah. I mean, you and I, we grew up in the U.S., of course, so I also had no experience with this back in the day, right? Because, like, most people did not have a master system. Yeah, I mean, I saw my share. I had my share master system experiences, but certainly not in 1991 and definitely not this sort of, you know, knockoff, not knockoff, but like, you know, like sort of guide in, golden-nex guiding, if you will. Yeah.

I think one thing I want to shout out about this game that you haven't mentioned and this is unbelievably specific so I apologize I think the use of fonts is very impressive the text is extremely readable and pleasant to look at which gives it a classy look

almost like a PC adventure game or something and I rate that and I want it to be known that I like that font, thank you and I want to add one more thing about it because it was also remarkable about this game is it does have a safe battery in there yes, it must be one of the only master's in games

that has that. Yeah I think there's probably a handful and that's it. And I mean to put in this work for a game for a console that is dead in Japan so late in its lifetime with a battery and everything from some obvious really good Sega people. It's amazing I think that they did that.

Yeah. Um, but what they also did later the same year, 1991, is they went, right, this golden axe has sold quite well, let's just do it again. Um, so they did. And they created for the Mega Drive slash Genesis, Golden Axe too, which dropped in late 91, early 92. And I think it's fair to say that it's very similar to the first game. It really is just like, it's more golden.

It's like, hey, kids, you like Golden X? Here is more Golden X. I mean, to be fair, to be fair, they didn't, it's not a quick, like, copy and paste job. They definitely put work into it. They made new sprites. You know, there was some thought here. Yeah. But it really is, it really is just a continuation of what Golden X was.

and there's just there's very little there's very little spice added to it it's just like you know it's like I think like Axebatler like is wearing a little bit of armor now and like Tyrus Flair instead of a bikini she's wearing like sort of like a onesie but it's still like open

yes but yet but yet I'm sorry I mean this is important to me very important yet even though she's wearing more clothes you can see more of her ass they put more effort into drawing the ass and I want that to be on record as saying that I appreciate that

thank God and I'll call up my censorship campaign then thank you yes this is another preview of my future episode arces in video games which will be a 12 part masterpiece or so I say arsterpiece please cut this

don't cut it it's too good goal next two I want to be on again on the record as saying I think this game is actually quite underappreciated as a result of the circumstances around its sort of existence because it wasn't reviewed very well because in the UK at least Sega Power for example going like

hang on it's why why are we doing this again, this is exactly the same as the first game. But being the same as a good game is not a bad thing. I posit this now. I do go back to this quite frequently because I'm less familiar with it than the original golden axe, and I think it's pretty good. I think it's a pretty solid little brawler. Yeah, I think when I played it again yesterday,

and I think it has a bit more jank than the original golden axe. It just feels a bit less refined maybe, but on the other hand, there's also a few nice improvements with some. a few, well, different moves at least. You have some nice enemy creatures and I like how they rework the magic system so you can use it more tactically in this

game because the longer hold your button the more you charge it up and the more of your little bottles you use. So you can decide do I want to go for the big one for the big dragon or do I want to hit the enemy again and again when I'm surrounded with a small blast. And of course you also have to find out where can I stand now to

charge up my big attack without getting it. So that makes it a bit more interesting. Did you play this one, John? Oh, yeah, absolutely. It's, it's, I kind of echo what you guys think where it's just, it feels like more of the original, but I do think that's not necessarily a bad thing. It's just, and so this wouldn't have been released yet.

Streets of Rage was also, uh, 91. But the jump from Streets of Rage to Streets of Rage 2 felt like a generational shift almost, where this, this is more like a just, well, here's more golden accent you know and love with minimal improvements. I will say, though, I think the soundtrack is actually quite a bit better. Like, the tunes are great, but they're really good. Like that first, that opening level, you're just like, oh, yeah, let's go when you hear that track. I do like both are fantastic.

I do like the music for this game, but I do also feel like at least half the tracks don't feel appropriate for the sort of fantasy action. I don't know. I totally understand that. You know what I mean? The title track, especially. I love the funkiness of it, but I absolutely. understand what you mean. But it's good.

It's not, I'm not, you know, this bad, this bad music on the system, this good music of the system, it's definitely the good music. It's just kind of like, yeah. Doesn't put you like the theme. It seems a little strange, you know. Who is the composer for this one? Now, Fumi, I don't want to get it wrong. I'm sorry.

Hataya, yeah. Now, they, they did Sonic 3, right? Or at least some of Sonic 3. Oh, Sonic CD, really? Yeah, the Japanese and European Sonic CD soundtrack. Because I want to, because of course, Sonic 3D was Michael Jack. of course, I forgot. Right.

But I feel like some of the music in this game does kind of sound a bit sonicky. Absolutely, and we'll see that continue with three as well. Yes. I feel about something about this game visually that I noted was, when I went back to it like yesterday, the stuff that has kind of been adapted from the original game, visually, all looks very solid.

But then when the new elements come in, it almost sometimes feel like someone else drew them and they don't quite gel as well. Probably did, though. As I mentioned, the first game, completely cohesive. This game a little bit like, so there is a feel of slight boot-leggedness going on here, but it's still a good game, and I'd recommend it to pretty much anyone.

One little bonus factoid on this for those that picked up a six-button controller for the system to play Street Fighter at a later date. They may have found that this game is not playable with the six-button controller unless you hold the mode button at boot. Otherwise, the controls are completely broken. You don't get any deep-pad reactions. I try it also when I...

I think it actually maps like walking direction to face buttons instead, but not even correctly. Isn't it like a recurring thing with Golden Axe and Sega controllers? Because if you have the unlock controller for the Saturn plugged in for the duel, it doesn't even boot. Oh, wow. I didn't realize it didn't boot, but yeah.

That is wild. Yeah, it's really weird. I don't want to blow it up here, but I do have to issue a correction. So in this game, replaced the magic potions with magic books. Oh, right. And I do think it's kind of funny because now, instead of collecting little bottles,

you've got your warrior walking on the battlefield and just picking up book after book after... Yeah, hardback, huge, hardback leatherbound tomes. And also, and I think in a serious downgrade, serious downgrade, they took out the little guys. The little guys are gone. Right. And they've been replaced by these sort of like

these hooded, like, magicians or wizards. Yeah, and they can actually fight back. What the hell? Yeah. They actually, they do attack you, they have projected weapons, that's kind of new. But I'm just saying, like, kicking the little guys in Golden X is one of, like, the true joys of video gaming. And to be replaced by

these sort of, like, I don't know, just uninteresting sacks in this game, I think, is a real, a real serious mistake. And I believe they knew it was a mistake, because if you look ahead, every subsequent Golden X game goes back to the little guys. So this is the only game. This is the only game, they said, we're

trying something else, and like, no, no, no, doesn't work, doesn't work. Go back, go back. Even the duel has this The simple visceral joy of kicking something that's defenseless. You got to. You got to kick the little guys. They make the girls sound like, It's beautiful. Yeah, that's wonderful.

So if there's nothing, if we're more to say about Golden X 2, we can talk about the... Oh, I have one more downgrade here because, yeah, the sound effects are a big downgrade, I think. Oh, I agree. Not as crunch here as the original,

and the screams are gun. It's just replaced with this weird sound when somebody dies, and, I mean, if I'm... Could you do that again, please? I really enjoyed that. Can I get that sound once more? Eh.

I love it. Brilliant. Retronauts. Thank you. Right. I will have to send a game sometime because I did all the mere sound effects myself. It's amazing.

Amazing. But yeah, I think it's a downgrade because, I mean, the screams are a big part of the charm of golden X one and just having these weird vocalizations in there. Yeah, it's not the same. It's just something is missing. This triangle death scream like,

it's just part of the game. You need it in there. Um, violence, that's a big part of this, huge amounts of violence. There's a lot to say about the remaining games, but let's round off with something slightly unimportant, which is the next game, 1991-2, Game Gear, Axe Battler, a legend of Golden Axe. Now, if Golden Axe warrior was inspired by the original Legend of Zelda, this one seems very much inspired by Zelda II, the Adventure of Link, everyone's favorite game in the series. Yeah, you know, I wish this had come to much system as well.

Might have worked well there. Maybe. I mean, I played this for the old Game Gear Directory, which was my magnum opus, as everyone knows. And I don't hate it, but I do think it's got a lot of problems. When you get into an actual dungeon, I think it's quite enjoyable. It's like a sort of crappy version of Raston, you know. And there's nothing, I mean, Rastan is so good.

I mean, especially the Mastersd and Rastan, if you've played that, it's absolutely amazing. Oh, yeah, that's great. I enjoyed that in this respect, but the overworld stuff is, I mean, it would be fun, but the battles, the random battles, are so frequent that it's infuriating. Because the one-on-one combat in this game is just

not that fun, and it's frustrating because you'll lose health, and it's in ways that feel really kind of unfair. And since it's quite a resource-intensive, resource management in terms of trying not to lose health, because that's the only way you're going to get anywhere. It's mostly, I guess I'd call it like Act Razor, if Act Razors's SIM parts were not good at all,

instead of amazing, like they are now. I would say the game gear nature of it also makes that worse because I feel like on Game Gear, the screen is so zoomed in that it actually makes walking around the landscape annoying because you're constantly getting in battles, but you also can't get a good sense of where you're at or where you're supposed to go. I agree.

I mean, yeah, as Thomas said, on the master system, I think this would have been a lot more fun. It wouldn't have been great, but it would have been a lot more enjoyable. It's like how with many Game Gear games, the view is simply close up without accounting for screen space I mean let's look at Sonic 2

as the most prominent example of that really this last level's been yeah they're hard enough on the master system to be honest but yeah aspect another game by aspect here as were every GameGa game ever developed developed by aspect

90% of them wow but it's not aspect on full form you know they're very good when they're on form I think but this one not so much it's a bit of a bit of a stinker. Yeah, it's a bit of 70% aspect, maybe.

Would it be fair to call this arguably the worst Golden Axe game? Because I think it might be. If we're not talking ports? Yeah, we're not talking ports. I mean, Beast Rider. Well, there is that PS3.

Beast Rider, yeah. Thomas' favorite game ever. Thomas likes it more than I do. But I haven't played... We'll get to that. Yeah, we will. On the next episode. It will be the next episode, Stuart, if I may, if I may, I did do some research on this.

And a self-proclaimed game gear expert wrote for the Richardt's website, the sprites are a little small, but the hack and slash gameplay delivers. I mean, it delivers in the, it's not. It's okay. Like I said, when you get into the dungeons, that's kind of when it gets into the moral hack and slash thing. I do quite like that because it's just essentially, it's essentially, yeah, budget rest on. it's essentially platforming and slashing and it's quite enjoyable that there's actual level design there it's not just left to right flat plane like the random battles are

incidentally i also wrote about this and a handheld history volume two at quite length some length so please buy that and send me some money in the post because i won't get any for it that's a great way to wind this one up isn't it a plugging something and then asking people to send me money in an envelope in the post um anyway yes this has been part one of golden axe and there are many games left to go. I say many, enough that there's plenty to talk about for another nice breezy episode like this one. We could have crowned them all in,

but it wouldn't have been satisfying. It wouldn't have been satisfying. So let's do the usual thing now where we talk about where we can enjoy one another's work on the internet. Diamond, where can we find you on the internet? Because you are a stranger to these parts, obviously. Yes, I am a little bit out of place in this Euro-heavy episode, but I couldn't stay away from Golden Axe.

Anyway, obviously, I'm a big part of retronauts, but if you want to find me on the internet, just go to my website. My website is fightclub.me. That's F-E-I-T, that's my last name, C-L-U-B, like a weapon many of the creatures use in these golden-nex games. Dot M-E. That's me. So fight-club. You can look up there. I'm also active on pretty much all forms of social media.

So, you know, you can always look at me and see what I'm watching or maybe where I've been over this weekend, you know? I just want to know at this point in the last few weeks I got followed by Diamond on Twitter and it was an honor and finally a badge of honor and now I'm sure you regret that to a normal extent now that you've seen all my tweets so I'm very sorry it's not as alarming as when I friended you on Facebook's too

that's very much danger zone okay yeah I do talk about anus on there a lot John where can we find you on the internet following that segue where mention anuses, sorry. YouTube.com slash digital foundry. We also post stuff sometimes on Eurogamer.net slash digital foundry.

You could find me over at Dark 1X on that X place. I'm also on the blue skies, among many other places. But yeah, I'm around. Check out DF retro stuff, of course. If you're into retro gaming. And if you're not, what are you doing?

What are you doing here? Oh, that's a good point. Yeah, Thomas. How about you? Dear Thomas. Lovely Thomas. So, well, if you are looking for my work, you can, of course, go to Germaners stores and buy an issue of M-Games, which is a print magazine about video games, around since 1994. So shortly after the big times of Golden Axe. But, yep, so this is where you can read me. If you want to listen to me, you can, of course, always come by university in Niebuhr and listen to me rambling about old games, game design, stuff like that in my various courses and lectures.

So M-Games now, the longevity going on there is. I mean, what we need now is for Edge to die, and then it can bypass the past Edge and become the longest running. There probably is a long-go-running one that I don't know about, though. Does any games have like a vicious right? Do you guys have like a vicious

rival magazine? Because I'd love to start a beef. We used to in a way, but we outlift them all, so now it's just us just us left. It's amazing. Yeah, M-Furt, Masterful. Yeah, thanks very much for listening. and if you like Retronauts, like for example

this episode you've just listened to or many of the other fine episodes presented by people who aren't me and don't talk about anuses, you will find the Retronauts' Patreon is a very appealing prospect because for a mere $5 a month, which is, let's face it, almost nothing in today's economy, you will be able to access

not just every weekly episode, a whole week early, thus putting your finger on the pulse of Retro Gaming News and discussion, but also you will get Diamond Fire Hello, Diamond. You all get Diamond's tremendous this week in retro columns, which are also recorded as podcasts, which are extremely good. And I'm not just saying that because of nepotism or professional courtesy. They are actually good. If they weren't, I would say so. Okay. I don't take prisoners here. But they're good. And you can also access two entire bonus episodes every month, isn't it?

A full-length episodes about such exciting topics as we did Super Metroid, for God's sake. Everyone wants to see what we have to say about Super Metroid. Final Fantasy 6 recently, we covered a lot of stuff. I was an episode where we'd be Kevin Bunch and some other fighting game experts talked about the quote, quote, dark age of fighting games in only 2000s, where there wasn't a lot of stuff going on. That was a great one. I really liked it.

Thank you. And more to come. More about that came from. I look forward to that. So thank you very much. And our Discord. Oh, yes, you get to go on the Discord, where I will routinely go on there and make appalling jokes that nobody loves

her. So, another way to enjoy my terrible humour there. But also, there's a nice community there full of lovely people. And of course, this month in retro. How can I forget this month in Retronauts? The greatest romantic podcast of all time. Starring

Diamond Fight and myself, I almost all so well on it. But then sometimes other people go on it when I'm not able to do it because I've got my hand stuck in a cow or something. Were you doing romance? Are we doing romance there? Yeah, I didn't want you to find out this way. I'm really sorry. I wasn't thinking.

All right. Okay. New connotation. Okay. Yeah, connotations. I think it was someone else who described it as the bromance or something. I thought it was quite funny. Because it's so true, isn't it?

But again, thank you for listening. Do join the Patreon. It's very good. And even if you're not on the Patreon, you know what? You're all right. And we'll be back with even more Golden Axe with many more exciting and obscure games to come. Good night.

Thank you. You know what I'm going to do.