Retronauts - 710: Shinobi - Mission 2

Episode Date: August 18, 2025

It’s the revenge of Shinobi… podcasts! Join Stuart Gipp, Diamond Feit, John Linneman and Thomas Nickel for a second look at the far-from-average Joe. Retronauts is made possible by listener support through Patreon! Support the show to enjoy ad-free early access, better audio quality, and great exclusive content. Learn more at http://www.patreon.com/retronauts 

This week in Retronauts, should we fail before completing this podcast, we will disappear before the dawn and vanish forever. Hello, welcome to Retronauts. I'm Diamond Fight. Wait, no, I'm not. I'm Stuart Chip. I would never deign to be. Look, hey, I got confused, okay. There are many similarities. For example, we're both presenters and Retronauts. That's, I can't think of any more similarities at all. I guess that's why it works so well, don't you think, the dynamic? We're talking about Shinobi again. You may have noticed that Diamond presented very well, the previous episode on Shinobi, has allowed me to present the second episode. Such as their grace, I have to say. That was a very graceful thing that you did, Diamond. But I guess the best thing to do is to just introduce ourselves. So I've already mentioned Diamond, so why don't you start there? Yes, this is Diamond Fight.

That other voice is not Diamond Fight. I am Diamond Fight. And really, I'm more of a Yoko Ninja. That joke will make sense in about an hour. Oh, cool. Okay. I look forward to laughing my ass off at that one. And Thomas, you joining us again from last time?

Yes, I'm here, and I'm so happy to be here because, you know, this podcast gave me finally the courage to buy that eight-meter scarf. I was eyeing all the time. You've got to have the long scot. But joining us, joining us this time, for the first time in a while, actually, who wasn't on the previous episode, due to circumstances, I believe, virus-based circumstances. It's John Lillen. Hello, John. Well, hello there, Stu. Yes, virus-based circumstances prevented me from engaging in any. shinobi action. The doctor told me no Shinobi for a month, so...

That's... Yeah, it's... You don't like to hear that, do you? No, you really don't, but... Yeah. He wasn't put a hard of Zeed, was he, by any chance? No. Oh, my God. I think so. That would have been... Bad. Is that... John, are your doctor's part of the Zed HMO? Umbrillow. No. See, here in the UK, we get our Zed for free. It's not, you know, it would be. Um...

Anyway, Shinobi, what we've already covered so far is everything up to and not including Shinobi 3, Return of the Ninja Master. But because John wasn't here in the previous episode, I would like to ask John specifically, Hi, John. What's your history with Shinobi? Well, I played a lot of Shinobi throughout the years. And the first one that I played was actually the revenge of Shinobi on a friend's Sega Genesis. It was actually probably one of the very first games I remember playing on the system at all. all. This is before I had my own Sega Genesis, and the friend's name was Chris, from what I recall,

and he had everything. And this, I may have even mentioned this before, but yeah, Shinobi, I remember playing this thinking, like, okay, this game has amazing music, and it's really fun. And at the time, the closest thing I could really compare to, in my head, at least, was, like, Castlevania. It was like Ninja Castlevania, you know? And now I see, like, it's a bit different. But it's that, you know what I mean? It's like a slower-paced, walking, you know, very carefully taking on enemies. And I found that really enjoyable at the time, though quite difficult.

And I also remember always hearing about like, oh, there's like, you can find Spider-Man in there and stuff like that. Which, as we know, was indeed the case up to a point. But then after that, I would go on to play most of the series. I guess you could say, I never really got super into the arcade game or the master system games or anything like that. But like the mainline games, I played all the way up through the PS2 game, 3DS game, all that kind of stuff. So, yeah. So there's a lot of loves for Shano be there. Oh, I love the series.

Yeah. It is one of my favorite ninja series, and there's a lot of ninja series. And you're looking forward to the new one from Lizzie Cube. Oh, absolutely. Are we ever? We'll talk about that a little bit more than a little bit later, but we've got a lot of games to cover today. mainly on the bigans, you know, there are some lesser games coming up that we'll be

casting aside, really. Maybe just the one lesser game, really. We'll see how it goes. Yeah, I mean, I'm sure we'll have our own opinions here, but I feel like Shinobi as a series as a whole, the most exciting entries we kind of covered last time, although I do feel like we're going to start with a banger.

We're going to start with a banger. And then there's going to be a lot of ups and downs, and some of them are like, some of them are worth forgetting, in my opinion. Sorry. This, no, no apologies necessary. You know, Shinobi will be. I don't know.

Whatever Shinobi will be. I don't know. Something funny. Something funny. Something clever. Not anything I come up with on the spur of the moment. But, of course, we're talking about the Mega Drive slash Genesis game Shinobi 3, Return of the Ninja Master, also known as the Super Shinobi 2.

Released 1993 for the 16-bit Sega console, later released on the 3DS virtual console, or was it virtual console or was it like a Sega Ages release it I can't remember anyway it was 3D Ages it was of course it was so that's the same yes and as Diamond has mentioned it is a banger I would say it's a stone cold banger and it's arguably the best game of the lot in the whole series much more dynamic gameplay than Revenge of Shinobi not that I'm dismissing Avengers Shinobi obviously but it's a it's a much more slow-paced kind of a game whereas this is much more of a sort of a I would say Well, I suppose the original

Revenge of Shinobi is kind of a showpiece for the Mega Drive at that time, but this is more of like, look what we can do now with this Mega Drive, because there's some amazing visuals in this one. Oh, yeah. You know, I have this idea in my head, you know, that Revenge of Shinobi is sort of this gentleman Shinobi game, right?

It's slow, it's methodical, and Shinobi 3 is now more of that young, spirited game, right? Going all in now. I think I would personally... That's always a feeling I get. this is a little bit for maybe not myopic but I would personally compare it to

Streets of Rage versus Street of Rage 2 in terms of the jump like yeah yep I agree and that is not and everyone loves Streets of Rage it's great but if you want to play a Streets of Rage game you're going to play Streets of Rage too and that's kind of how I feel about Shinobi I would play this one over revenge pretty much every time and that's me saying two great games two great games but one of them is much greater for me I think it's very telling you know we because of the weirdness of release schedules and how things came out. You know, revenge came out on the home console first, and then Sega's port, but not

really a port of Shadowdanceer came out on the home version, which was kind of a return to the arcade action. So when they made this game, they clearly decided, okay, let's go back to, you know, even in name, a name alone, it says, okay, we're going back to the previous game. This is essentially Revenge 2, but they don't call it that, but, you know, it's very much a sequel to that game. But they still decided, okay, we're going back to this game as far as it's not Arcady anymore. We got big stages.

You've got, you take your time. But also, you can run now. You can run. Yeah, double-tax. You can wall jump. You can dive kick. You can climb. You can, like, climb on ropes.

Like, your ninja is extremely ninja now in ways that he wasn't before. Like, this is a very, this is a very capital and ninja game. Absolutely. Certainly. I would actually say that this is one of the ones. of the quintessential 16-bit action games, one of the top games that you could play that generation in terms of sheer quality of action. And fundamentally, it is a very different game from the Revenge of Shinobi. But as you say, it is technically, I guess, too, right? It's the

Super Shinobi two. It's part of the Super Shinobi series specifically. Not just technically. It is like that. It is. But I don't believe it has that much in the way of shared staff. Is that right? I think it's a different team that worked on this one by and large. Well, Obo returned as supervisor. He was kind of the guy, he was kind of the guy for a couple of Shinobi games, and he'll come back. That name will come back up later, but the official credited planner was now Hisa Nakazawa,

who other major credit apparently is Knuckles Chaotics, which. Jesus Christ. Yeah, last time that triggered Stu. So, yeah, Stu is still angry about that quote. Yeah, sorry. I really hate that game a lot. But I can't believe this. This is, this is horror.

It's like horrifying, the worst person you know you just made a great game. I can't believe it. But a lot of these guys have amazing credits on so many other great Sega games, right? Yeah, I kid. I'm not throwing Shaded Nakazawa. It's not, I'm sure it's not their fault that Knuckles Kiotics is so crappy. But, yeah, that's, that is shocking in a way. I mean, this is, this game is just like, I completely agree with John.

it's one of the premier 16-bit action games it's it's got to be in the conversation at least it's incredible game so to break it down real quick why for those that might be listening and wondering uh it's all about variety so this comes from a generation that a part of the generation where we started to see sort of the uh what is it like the frantic action of like treasure treasure was formed uh we had this is the year of gunstar heroes i believe uh coincidence by the way, all of these sort of started happening around the same time. Konami was into this as well, where you were essentially being faced, I think Nakazato San called it Situation Rush, if I recall.

Yep. Which is the idea that they're constantly throwing new ideas and genre types at the player. So you might, for instance, begin with a side scrolling section where you're running through taking out enemies, and then it might switch over to a section that's like auto scrolling, like on the horse, right? There can be vertical sections where you're going to. down, you know, riding on surfboards, you're facing very different types of stage designs. Like one, you know, I just be running along the ground. Others, you're like dealing with

these overhead climbing things. You know, you're making your way through it. You know, when you get to the lab, the nature of the enemies, the way you have to deal with them, the elevator stuff, all of these different things, the moves you need to use, the placement of stuff and the types of scenarios that you encounter, all of this stuff is constantly changing, right? And as a result, It feels like you're going through a much greater, crazier adventure. I almost, it's nothing like Strider, but I feel like Strider itself sort of kicked off the style of design. You know what I mean? Yeah, I do.

That's a good point. Yeah, set piece kind of set piece-led level design. Set-piece-led game, right? And I think Strider. John, would we say that, basically, Shinobi 3 is a bit of a decompressed strider? In a way, and this is where a lot of the stuff, like, I also think of like Rocket Night Adventures and stuff. like that. It's the same era where it's pulled out. It is decompressed in that the stages are longer because Strider has very short stages, right? It's constantly changing, but like screen by

screen changing. This is more, as you say, like level by level changing, which I think feels better overall. And the mechanics in general are more refined, which again, if we look back at the Revenge of Shinobi, there's all those new moves. You have double tap the run. You have that jump and kick move, right? Which allows you to do things like you run real fast, you hit the attack button, and rather than just like attacking in place, he actually slides forward and does like a lunge attack, then you can do a jump in the air, then it kick down off somebody else, then kick off their head, flip through the air, throw down your shooting again, and then slam down to

the ground and go back into a run. And once you actually get the timing and the pattern of the enemies, you kind of develop this almost like flow through the levels like you flow like water like a ninja right and that i think is something that that revenge is snobie doesn't really offer in comparison which is not to knock it it's a very different style game but i think that's what makes this so interesting because it is a game where you can sort of fumble your way through it you get through each situation okay but as you play and replay the game you gain new skills and an ability to actually read the scenario and play through it in this like very smooth way and that is specifically why i like playing this

game so often you know what i mean yeah i mean i think it's probably it's worth noting as well um though it is this you know situation rush set piece-based thing where things are constantly changing as you say you've got levels that like the auto scroll levels where you're on the horse or or hilariously you're on the surfboard um yes but they don't actually take they don't change the mechanics, so to speak, like, you're still fully in control, even when you're in this new situation, you know what's going to happen when you press B, when you press C, it's, you're just, you know, it's like you move left, right, you throw a shiracons, but I think that's important because once variety got into, say, for example, a PS1 games, it would be every single

level would be like, the controls have completely changed. We're in a different world now. I mean, you're right, Stu, but in the 16-bit era, I still think it, they generally kept the controls, right? Like, I mentioned Rocket Night, for instance, and Rocket Night doesn't change its mechanics. Even Strikes. really doesn't. And honestly, as you get into the modern era and you look at stuff like naughty dog style shooters, like the Uncharted series, they actually kind of feel like they're related to this. And they also don't really change the mechanics. And that's what made them interesting. It's like, look what we're doing with this, with this whole control system

by shifting the scenario around the player. And Shinobi 3 is very much one of the early examples of this. And the control scheme we should talk about because the, obviously, it does support the six-button controller for the megadrive, though you can't actually use that control scheme unless you enter a code, I believe, on the option screen, whereas when it was released on 3DS in the 3D Ages, it was just labelled expert mode. You could just enable it, which I believe it puts like block on its own button

because usually you just hold B and press down or something like that to block, which is obviously not quite as intuitive as just tapping a button. But it's another thing that, I mean, the first time I play, played through this game, I didn't know you could block. And I'm like, why is this game so hard? And then it's a lot easier once you know you can do that. But there's so much to see in this game. I just, I think of this, and I just think of some of the absolute premier visuals on the

Mega Drive, like that horrible, enormous, melty-faced organ, pile of organs with a face that you fight that's, like, wibbly sort of, I don't even know what you would call that. Like, almost Mode 7-ish kind of distortion on it as it gets bigger as it emerges. But along those same lines, too, one of the big changes visually over the last game is that they really went big on overlaid parallax scrolling. So even right away, the very first stage, you have a tree level, then a grass level, and then another layer with trees and grass, and then more trees, and they all scroll independently. And then by the time you get to that first area with the horse, with the kite, you've got like three different layers of independently scrolling grass. Then you have a layer of trees that scroll with reflection on the water. Then you have another small layer of mountains, which also scrolls independently, followed

by a different layer of clouds, two layers of clouds, actually, that again, all scroll independently. So you have all this different parallaxing movement in the background, which gives it this sense of depth that I would say the Genesis kind of became known for much more so than Super NES. Not that Super Nies couldn't do it, but far fewer games did this sort of thing. because it required you to do these sort of like raster interrupt tricks where you're changing the scan line update rate on a, you know, as you're drawing the screen basically. So it's a little bit of a CPU thing. I love that.

horse racing stage so much because, as you mentioned, not only that all these layers are scrolling at the same time, but the kites appear in the background, and the kites are basically how the ninja are coming to attack you. So as you see more kites appear, that's telling you, like, the player, okay, there's more, there's another enemy, there's another enemy. And then as you get towards the end of the stage, all of a sudden, there's like one big kite. And you're like, uh-oh, what the hell is behind the big kite? Yes. And the answer was the boss. and I think the kites have like only written on it so which is fun

it's very I mean it's very cinematic isn't it to bewail it down it's a very cinematic game drawing you in to like oh my gosh dude the narrative I mean the narrative is it's kind of a slim narrative but they really bring you I mean I'm going to compare it to Sonic 3

and Knuckles now I'm sorry I know I've done five episodes about that friggin thing but it is similar it's you know it's wordless storytelling and while there are you know there are some cutscenes but it's all just now this is happening and you are reacting to it. You are not being told what's happening.

Yeah, and there's a progression, right? Like we were just talking about the horse stage. You're riding through the horse stage. And when you reach the end, you're essentially approaching that first lab-like area. It's like a techno fortress. And then you work your way through that. And then you get that elevator sequence, which is very cool, which again, is lots of multilayor scrolling, followed by a boss fight. So all the levels have this sort of progression.

where you're like, okay, we start here in this area, and by moving through the stage, we're, like, working through different sections on the way to the boss, which is awesome. But if I may jump in quickly. Please. Lots of stuff, good stuff, definitely. But I would also pose a theory

that the game does not make such a good first impression when you played for the very first time. Because that's, at least for my... A controversial take there. Yeah, let me explain so. Because the first stage looks great, but it's only just one path left to right. There is no different levels, no anything.

It's just run across and kill the enemies. And if you don't know the controls at this point, the running, the jump kick and everything, if you just play it like you played Revenge of Shinobi before, it also feels weird because you jump really high at the beginning. And you have to get in there. You have to really get to grips with the new system and new elements to get your fun. And I think that's why they made the stage that, way, just here is this long level playfield, get use of the controls.

Yeah, that's interesting because, like, the way I approach this game now, and I'm not like an expert at this game, but like, I boot this game up and I'm in full sprint. Like, I can just go in, you know, through this first level, but I can see what you mean, like when you're playing through it for the first time playing it like Revenge of Shinobi, you're going to kind of be like, okay. You know, I remember that when I bought the game, because the German press was more or less lukewarm on the game. most of than that yet is a nice action game but the first one was a lot better so i still bought

it because it's shinobi and uh all the first impression was yeah i may have may have just wasted a lot of money but i mean after a couple of minutes i was invested but as i said the first impression that's fascinating thomas i have to admit because i kind of felt opposite about it in that i'm a big fan of games that start out very narrow and then fan out as you play like i don't like games that are like, here's this giant big level right away. Oh, I'm not saying I'm a giant big level, you know, but just compared to the first level of Super Shinobi. I actually think I like this first level more.

I think it makes a stronger impression, actually, because it's just like, it's very straightforward, very clean, and it just like lets you fully immerse yourself and understanding how to play it. And right away, even on your first time, you'll start to discover, like, wait, there's more to these controls than you might first think. And you won't know of me yet. And of course, that's the point of the level, yeah. Right?

And I feel like I got that right away. And I remember the first time I ever played it, thinking, like, oh, wow, this seems really cool. It puts you in the cave where you have to wall jump, doesn't it, quite early? Like, it's a harm, like, a danger-free wall-jump zone to sort of teach you that that's the thing. Yeah. I think it's, yeah, I can see where you're coming from. I can see where you're coming from. I think I have to side with John on this one, but I can see what you're coming from.

Yeah, I can see it too. Exactly. It's just a thought. It's just a thought. It's a brilliant game. I'm just relating my first experience I had with it. I would say, Thomas, part of that probably comes from the fact, like you sort of suggested, it's very different. So if you're coming at this like, oh, I want more Avengers Shinobi or you like played, say, Shadow Dancer or Arcade Shinobi, this is not that, right?

It is very different. Like, I would say Shadow Dancer's first stage feels a lot more bombastic, if you will, with all those explosions in the cities. They're just like blowing everything up. There's dudes everywhere. You're like, oh, my God. It's interesting, because I think somehow there's this kind of idea of Shinobi as a more restrained series. But it's kind of insane, isn't it? It's really, like, dynamic and nuts and Sega crazy.

It's like, I love it. I love it for that. But we should talk about the music a little bit, I think, because we've got three composers on this one. Oh, I forgot to mention this. As Diamond did the notes for this, because this wasn't originally going to be two parts. and I have to thank Diamond for that publicly because they said I have to or if

I don't, they'll beat us but yeah Basayuki Nagau I don't have to pronounce that I'm really sorry compose on this as well as Hirafumi Mirasaki of Clockwork and I Poyo Dragon Force and

Morihiko Akiyama of Colum's 3 which maybe that has good music I don't know it's columns I don't like columns very much But that's a lot of composers, and I'm noting that there is one name that is particularly absent from this. I think we all know who I'm talking about, even though their name has escaped from my head, which is why I'm, yes, which is why I'm stalling. How on earth could I have forgotten that message? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, I mean, I was absolutely convinced they were involved in this because some of the music is so cashiero-coded.

Really? See, to me, it felt like the soundtrack was clearly very different style from where. he would have normally was going at this time, I think, but not in a bad way. It's very awesome in its own. It just has a different flavor, and I think that flavor suits the change in the action, you know? Was he in, I mean, Tosurro would have been at this point, was he in his kind of like experimental techno phase of, yeah, I believe so. I mean, he was doing a lot of, H3 and so on.

Doing other games at the same time, I think, but yeah, I think he was in that experimental phase, and it probably, like, this was sort of like his more, I don't know, I don't know what you say, street phase, where it's like experimenting with more electronic dance kind of music as opposed to, like, something that would fit this style of Shinobi game. I also wonder he might have just, he might have just been kind of shinobied out, because don't forget, beyond Revena Shinobi, he was also very involved in the Game Gear Shinobies. Oh, yes. He might have just had enough Shinobi.

He's like, hey, we're doing another one for Mega Drive. And he's like, you know, I, uh, maybe, maybe. me that. Let me sit as went out. Yeah, so around 93, he did slap fight MD and act Razor 2 and was working on Streets of Rage 3. Yeah. And getting ready, I guess also the ancient must have been doing Beyond Oasis slash story of Thor at this time. Yeah. I think he was pretty busy at the time. So the dude was just busy, man. Like, he was doing a lot of stuff. And I think maybe, yeah, no shade intended at Yuzo Kuscher for sitting this one out. I think that they did a fantastic job with the music. I really like the music.

this game. It's a different approach, I think, you know. I think the music in this game is, it's supporting the action. I think compared in the first one, the music is going all to the front end, just doing its thing. And the second one, as I said, it has a supporting role for me. Because I could, from the back of my head, I could pretty much hum every tune from revenge of Shinobi.

Maybe I'll get out two or three from three, but that doesn't mean it's a bad soundtrack. It's just a different approach. I'm actually surprised to hear that because some of the songs in Shinobi 3 are so good. It's like that it sits alongside something like Thunder Force 4 for me where it's just like it just goes, right? Some of them, absolutely. Where these songs are bangers.

I'd say almost all the music is great. And some are obviously really standouts, but all of it is awesome. It's a very good soundtrack. I think the question really, because we've said a lot about Shinobi 3, Do we have any more to say about should be three at this point, other than going to buy it? I mean, there was prototypes of this game.

That was. This seems like a game that went through a lot of difficulty in terms of development. And I believe there's some history out there about that. But clearly, while working on it, they had various different ideas compared to how it ended up turning out. And you can actually find some of these prototypes on the internets, if you look. And they start very differently. Like, one of the ones I remember playing starts in that sort of the fire stage, you know, with the burning trees and the oil drums. Like, that's like the first stage.

Wow. And I think those were all around in like 1992 or so. Yeah, they even sent them out to the press. There's also, like, there's like a different one with like sort of like verticality with trees, if I recall. Like, there's a fair amount of stuff going on in these prototypes that makes it decided. very different from the other... You know, what I just

recalled, you said, the verticality one, they recycled that one game later. Yeah. You can go back and look at the magazines

around 92 when this game is being previewed and it's very different looking, like really super different looking. So there's

definitely some trouble there. Yeah, I mean, the most famous thing about it is the tiger in the game, of course. If you look at

the Western cover, there used to be a tiger in the background, but the tiger was taken out of the game, So they had to remove it from the cover, and so it's a bit empty in that spot. They probably saw that there was a tiger in quack shot, and they were like, oh, they've done it.

They've done it already. We've got to take the tiger out. Tiger quarter is filled. We can't do anymore. I'm sorry. Exactly. But either way, the prototypes are very slow and plotting. I would say more like Revenge of Shinobi, but there's less overall action going on.

And the levels are a bit more open-ended looking, where they're more tall and wide at the same time. which was largely done away with in the final game to create more exciting stages. So clearly they were not satisfied with how the game was turning out and opted to change things, which I'm glad they did. I would say, speaking of changing things, 1993, yeah, thank you. That was a good segue, wasn't it? Then we have a two-year gap, and of course the Saturn gets released, the fabled Sega Saturn.

And 1995 gives us the next installment in the Shinobi series, which is Shinobi Legions in America, I believe, also known as Shinobi X in Europe, I want to say. Yep. And Shin Shinobi Den in Japan, a sat an exclusive game, which has, for some strange reason, never been ported or re-released in any form.

And it wasn't actually published by Sega in the United States. No. Which I guess they were washing their hands of it to some extent. However, this is a fairly notorious game, but I didn't play it until I came around. round to this podcast. I gave it a little go. And I'm going to be real.

I know it's me. I don't think it's horrible at all. I agree. I think it's horrible. The major thing that jumps out of you with this is they've gone all, you know, pit fight and mortal combat. They've gone with your digitized visuals of actors. And it's an interesting look.

And it lends the whole thing slightly uncanny, crazy vibe, which I kind of like. Um, and also it brings us, you know, full motion video cutscenes, full story, fully voice, well, I'll say voice acted, fully acted, I should say. Um, but it is a bit, it's a bit shunkey. Like, it's not up to the standard of Shinobi 3 or even really revenge of Shinobi, I would say. It's a very odd game. It actually reminded me, though it's nowhere near as bad as this, of Shrider returns in a way of way. Oh, no way. It's not even close to as bad as that, but it reminded me of that in terms of vice because of like the early level where you're just climbing around on loads of random tree branches with no seemingly no sort of rhyme or reason to it, spammed with loads

of ninjas. But Stu, Stu, I think you're on to something very important there. Imagine if someone made a Shinole, made a Strider game in the 90s and filmed real actors for all the characters like that. Don't you know in your head how stupid that would look? Well, hold on, Diamond. Let me present something else to you instead. This was 1995, after all, what if they did pre-rendered CGI-Sprites instead? How much worse that would be? We should count ourselves fortunate that they went

for digitized FMV styles, frites as opposed to pre-rendered horrible 1995 CGI sprites. Don't worry. We'll see those in 2002. But the fact that they could have done something even stupider doesn't mean that the live action actors

aren't kind of dumb. And I feel like really hurt the game in more ways than we can possibly enunciate at this point. I think looking back at it now, though, it's easier to look at it as kind of kitsch, and it captures a campy vibe. But back then, Campan was not really the thing at all. I would say, really, I also don't love these digitized sprites. But compared to other contemporary digitized sprites games, I actually think they do it better than most. Like, it's not as good as Mortal Kombat, which actually does a great job with it. like most attempts at digitized sprites were way worse than this.

That doesn't make it good. Stuff like way of the variant and so on. But it's still, it's okay enough. I mean, I'm going to be real. I didn't have a bad time playing this. I thought it was kind of fun. I think it moves slickly enough. I think the response is good.

The control is a good. It's got the expert controls from Shinobi 3. You can block any time. You can chuck shirgin. You can do all the same stuff more or less that you can do in Shinobie 3. level design is not nearly as good. It is not nearly as good, no. It is not.

And, John, if we can go back to what you were talking about, like, remember we went at length about how Shinobi 3, Super 2, whatever, like backgrounds had all these scrolling layers, right? And they were like, they were visual feast, you know? And these backgrounds are largely just, like, digital photographs. Like, there's one level I could think of where it's like, it's very similar to a level and actually Revenge of Shinobi, where it's like, you're going along a port, and, like, there's, like, some boats in the water, and you're jumping from, like, concrete things, and there's a city in the background. And in this version, because everything's digital, it's like, oh, yeah, it looks like someone took a picture of Hong Kong or maybe Vancouver, and, like, it's just this giant, like, bitmap, like, a Mugan stage. It's, like, it's so, it's so flat and uninteresting to, like, it's like one of the model. I mean, it's not badly done, as John said, but it does. remind me of something like Blood Warrior in the arcade. It's just kind of like a knockoff of something.

You know, it's, it has that kind of a vibe. Do you remember there's a, like, when Tyder did Bubble Bobble, they did Bubble Symphony and then they did one, which was great, but then after that, they started doing, I think it was Bubble Bobble Returns. Yeah. And it has stupid digitized backgrounds.

Yeah, like a picture, a photo of a dog or a photo of a dog or something. It's like a photo of a dog and you're just like, uh. Bubble, Bubble memories, Bob story, Bubble Bubble level three, I think, yeah. It's like, well, this is extremely dumb. And it is a shame, because I feel like if this had been a traditional sprite game, it wouldn't be nearly as rubble, as you've said, Diamond,

it wouldn't be nearly as reviled in that respect. But it's still not good enough. I'm wondering about that, why they decided to go with this digitized sprites. Was it an idea to maybe make the series more appealing for the states, for example? Because, you know, Mortal Kombat was a big thing over there, and then Sega just saying, nah, we don't want it. I mean, I think... Quite ironic.

Dude, in 1995, whether we like it or not, traditional, like, d'Lte sprite games were not popular. Yeah. That's not what companies wanted. That's not where the audience was. I think it was probably a motivation, was probably the fact that Sega had new hardware, and like all platforms back then, they wanted to show, oh, here's a game you could never possibly imagine seeing on the old 16-bit systems. Here it is, it's Shinobi, with real people in full motion video. And, you know, I think, like a lot of games in that era, like a lot of other games that, you know, hype their FMV components.

Like, you watch them today and you're like, okay, you spend a lot of money on this. It looks like something I couldn't play a Super Nintendo or Sega Genesis, but guess what? Those games are just better. So, thanks. I mean, I know. And I think it seems like even the developers may have been a little bit unhappy with this one in terms of the fact that they're not even credited in the game

like you just get the credits for the actors and the live action sort of crew though based on what Diamond has put in the notes here thank you again Diamond for the notes yeah I can I can try to code this a little bit because if you play the game the game gives you almost no

information about who made it it's just they just give credits for people you know who are actually like on camera and being filmed and like the director of the live action stuff so based on a variety of social media posts and information included in the Shinobi music collection from a few years back, it looks like this may have been a tose game, which would explain why the credits are so spares, because a lot of tose games just don't

say who they made it by. But there's indications that Oba may have served as producer, and that Hidashi Tatsuno, who was the planner for Ninja Spirit, was thanked. in these musical notes as saying he gave the game design a tune-up, like in Japanese, like tune-up-stah or whatever. And to me, what makes this extra funny is that in the Shinobi music collection, they do not cover this game at all. They only cover the earlier games.

So in this collection music for different Shinobi games, we have sort of a peak behind the scenes of this Shinobi game, which I feel is definitely a black sheep situation. And it's like, that is so weird that this. This is how we're getting the information out. Yeah. I mean, you kind of get it, don't you? Why they bury this one a little bit?

I mean, the weirdest thing about it for me is that this isn't even like the least known Shnobie game. We'll get to that in a minute. But if we don't music, though, we should talk about the music. We should. That's even weirder. That's even weirder because this game was, you know, if it's Tosei said, we're not sure. We think it's Tosei. Tose made this.

They released it in Japan. they released it in the U.S. It was delayed in the Europe because someone in Sega Europe said they didn't like this music. They hated the music. So they went out and got Richard Jacques, who had done other stuff. Like, hey, we want you to redo the entire music for this game. And according to Jacques, he said he had two weeks to make 20 different songs. He only had about 200K memory to play with.

And he said, you know, I appreciate this is real recognition. this is real, recognized real moment, you know? Richard Jock said, I tried my best to sound like Yuzokosuro, which is impossible because he is an absolute genius. I mean, it's not bad. So is Richard Juck, because he gave us the Sonic R soundtrack, which is the finest soundtrack ever

recorded for a video game. Yeah, I think both soundtracks have their merit. I just think it's kind of shocking to see a game like this have two complete different soundtracks in this regards, you know, that one producer in one territory would say, No, no, no. Sega Japan, I reject you. I want more music, different music.

It's like the Sonic CD situation all over again, right? Like, it's the same thing, where it's just somebody decided we don't like this music in this region for whatever reason, and then they changed it. I think something I want to mention about this game, there's a bit more specific as it has this, it feels like, even though it's a 2D game, and I don't say that as a dirty word, obviously. I love 2D games, that's why I'm here, is they try and make. it big in the same way as for me, like, for example, the Batman Forever arcade game that got ported to Saturn and PlayStation, because, you collect, like, a sword power up, and it creates this enormous, like, samurai in the background. And whenever you attack, that same graphic appears, and there's, like, explosion sound effects, and as if it's going to look...

You're talking about the arcade game? Yeah, a little bit. Just in the sense of, like, what the hell is going on? Why is all this stuff happening right now? This is crazy. I hear you, Stu. You know what I'm talking about? It's like, it's a weird power-up. It's an unnecessarily flashy sort of power-up, I think. Yeah, like, you cast the magic spell. Like, you know, a lot of these Shinobi games have magic spells that has a flashy, like, trigger sound effect, or, you know, fire comes on the screen. But with that one, yeah, you summon this, I think it's called Bishimon, and the statue appears, and there's a big, there's a big sword slash.

And then for the rest of the stage, or if you die, your sword is powered up, and, like, you can slash and create statues, like, out of nowhere. and, like, your character's blinking, like, red, and there's also, like, a somersault move you can do where, like, you, like, do, like, four somersaults in a row and just, like, what's, what's going on now? Like, I also laughed because if you, I, I watched a couple playthrus because I didn't get, I remember playing this at one point in my life, but I never got very far, but I looked up a playthrough to see what happens at the end of the game, and I swear to God, the end of the game, it's like, you're fighting a ninja, which, by the way, I think I mentioned this earlier, but I'll say it again, Since the whole game is full of actors, most of the bosses are just other actors. You know what I mean? Like, this series is a long, rich history of, like, bonkers-ass boss battles. And in this game, it's mostly just like, okay, here's a guy with a spear. Here's a guy with a mask.

Here's a guy with two hooks. Oh, no. I mean, I played this again. I played this again today, and I noted that at the end, of stage two, you fight someone who looks a bit like a biker with like a mullet. And I defeated that boss and it wasn't

horrible. It wasn't too difficult. It felt very sloppy and imprecise, but I beat them. And then I go into the next area and it just seems to be the same guy again, like immediately. And I'm like, okay, I think that's enough of Shnobie X now. There's one stage where, instead of a boss, you're just,

it's another elevator level. And like, the elevator level against a ton of dudes is the boss. And you're like, come on, come on. And the last boss, again, it's a really weird fight because, like, you're collecting or something. And, like, once you get all the orbs, it's, like, it's almost like a sonic sort of a chaos emerald situation. Like, you get all the orbs. And then a big, like, splashy effect happens on screen. And then the boss, like, drops dead. And then there's an FV cutscene where, you know, they emote to each other. And And you're just like, this is so less, this is so less interesting than, you know, the original arcade game in 1987 where you fought a weird ninja who had weird ninja powers.

Like, this is so dull. I mean, I enjoyed the cutscenes personally for their camp value. I think Diamond hit it on the head there by saying dull. That's how I would describe this game. It's not bad, but it is dull. It's not that interesting. And that's, that's bad in itself. You know what I'm going to be.

I think that. One more speed bump to get over before we get back to the good stuff. So let's keep it brief with this one, because this doesn't deserve an enormous amount of scrutiny, which is the Revenge of Shinobi again. That's not the name I just added that again. It's just called the Revenge of Shinobi. And that was released in 2000. Should have been in the box. Yeah.

But it should have been called Revenge of Shinobi, but exponentially shitter. Okay, Stu, let me set this up for the audience. This is a great thing. So I only played... I only played this recently because I saw it on this episode. And I was like, all right. And it's got freaking 2D. It's a 2D game with GBA.

What could go wrong? Well, within the first few seconds, the game stops you from playing. It brings up a text box and tells you to push up in the direction of the slope to ascend. And I'm like, oh, no. I feel like that says it all right there. The first stage is one of those stages that stops you every like 10. seconds to tell you what to do. And it's kind of a product of that era, but you can instantly tell, like, okay, this is,

this is made by somebody that doesn't really seem to understand any of this stuff. They don't know why Shinobi was a beloved series in the first place, and they just made some sort of generic, little sort of, like, action-y game with a strange aesthetic. It's a character. I think on the notes, you put, it's replaced. The Prince of Persia with a ninja. And I think the reason you say that is because he has a lot of animation frames, which sounds good in theory, but it makes the character just seem weird.

You know what I mean? Yeah. I think the entire game, the entire game just doesn't, you know, we've already been through a lot of shinobes that feel different than other shinobes, but this, this one, like, even just looking at it, you're kind of like, what the hell, what the hell, who came up with this? The strangest thing to me, I think, of all the strange things. things about this game is the fact that this came out in 2002, which of course, this is a very

long gap between this and the previous game. But it's also the same year that we get a brand new Shinobi game that we'll talk about in a few minutes, which is, you know, you can say you love it or hate it, but it's got a lot more interesting ideas. And it's like, if this came out and say 2000 or 2001 and someone's like, okay, we want to make sure that people don't, people don't forget we own Shinobi. Let's just get a Shinobi game out there. But it's like, no, no, no, this should be the year of the big Shinobi revival but you've also got this crap which is like

yeah I mean it doesn't have any flare which is something that all the Shinobi games have I think even Legions has some flair to it like some idea of like them going okay we're going for this and they achieved that to some extent but this game to me

is just look back in the GBA days I played a lot of platforms that were made by vicarious visions and they were based on games like Shrek and Madagascar and all that sort of thing. And they were better than this. Like, this game has a very similar soundtrack to those games, same instruments. It has similar visuals with the pre-rendered ugly sprites,

but it also has awkward controls and boring levels, and that's just death for a game like this. And I don't think it's god-awful, but for a Shinobi game, it's approcious. Like, there's no excuse for it. The other thing that drives me nuts about this, I don't know about you guys, is that he's perpetually in a fighting game stance. Did you notice that? He's like in Mortal Kombat stance with his hands alley, ready to fight.

And that's how you walk around. You can double tap to run still, but there's really no reason to. There's really no utility to doing that in this game. It just feels wrong. It reminds me of playing tech and force, you know, where you take a fighting game engine and try to make another game out of it. Yeah. And it just doesn't look good in motion or feel right.

It's just the worst thing. for me is it is just boring levels. They are not interesting to explore. There's nothing worth finding in any of them. The enemies are all incredibly easy to kill. Um, like the first boss, I know it's the first boss, but all it does is you attack it once, walk away while it does an area of effect thing. Walk back, attack it again, does the same thing again. That's like 10 times you've got to do that. And there's no challenge, there's no thought. It's, you don't have to dodge anything. You don't have to do anything. It's just brain off. It's mushy. These people are supposed to be this boring. You know what I find really annoying about the game. In the first couple of levels,

right? I go to the levels and there's a house. I go inside. There's something. Next house. It looks the same. Next house. Same. One more floor. Next house. It's the same. And oh, my God. That's right. Like, why did they put those houses in there? I was exactly what I wanted to comment on. It's like they added this mechanic now where you're stopping, pressing up to go in a door. And and you're just, like, in a small room that's not interesting, then you go back out. I mean, that can work in an action game. The tremendous Bloody Wolf, from Day to East, for instance,

has this little rooms you go in, but this is no bloody wolf. I'd like to take this opportunity just to recommend a better GBA game about fighting, which is similar, actually, which is Bruce Lee Return of the Legend from Baccarious Visions, which is an underrated game. Well, Baccarius Visions in general is underrated, right? Yeah, they are. I mean, I love, that's why I brought them up earlier. of their GBA games. I think they deserve an episode, maybe one day. But that's better than this.

And it was mentioned, I think, that this was the studio that also made Altered Beast Guardian of the Realms, which was a GBA altered beast game that is awful. This is better than that, but that's not saying much. It's really not. So I don't think that there's, there's not worth talking about this. We've got good games to talk about. You know, real quick, though, thinking of it again, when you look at the way the sprites are animated, combined with the giant aimless levels, This feels like a weird, unholy mix of Shaq Fu in terms of animation and sprites. Oh, wow. With Michael Jordan Chaos in the Windy City.

You're not wrong, although I would rather play the Michael Jordan game. Oh, yeah, the Michael Jordan games are significantly better than this. But I'm still reminded of it with that kind of weird level design. I completely agree, yeah. John, you making the analogy, now I really want to see a Shinobi game where you play basketball. Yeah, exactly. There we go. I mean, if I can say

A one... Should I be Bryant? Does that work? If I can say one nice thing about this game, there is a bit of nice parallax in the levels. So that's something maybe. I'm also fond of the way that the cartridge is quite small, so you could easily lose it.

That's so cool. But let's not talk about this anymore, because 2003, we got something pretty, I would say pretty special, which is the 2002 PS2 Shinobi, just named Shinobi, which, which just made by Overworks. Oh, yeah. And this is the first 3D Shinobi game in third person control kind of thing. Following on from, you know,

Devil May Cry, not that it plays like Devil May Cry, but it's following on from that. And it's a game that I remember when it came out, it was met with quite a lot of, why is this so hard? From people who I don't think really learned the rules of it. But

what do we think of this one? What do we think of Shinobi on PS2? Well, for starters, I want to point out that you mentioned it's developed by Overworks, right? Yeah. And this team has a long history with Sega. But as of 2002, when this came out,

I think they were best known for Skies of Arcadia, which was considered one of the greatest RPGs of that era. And it's still beloved to this day. And it's really what, I think that's the first game where they use the Overworks name so I believe a lot of the staff was involved with stuff like deep fear on the Saturn

and there was definitely some involvement with Sakura Tyson as well I mean they did three which is one of the really big ones yeah exactly so you know coming from them I was already hyped you know I like Shinomi I love Skies of Arcadia this PS2 game comes along it's 2002 it's good but there's some issues I would say yeah I mean the first thing at issue, and it's written on the notes here, but the first thing that I noticed when I

revisited it with this and the follow-up is the camera kind of sucks pretty bad. Like, I had a big trouble with the camera on this one. It's, I mean, it's an era where we were still figuring these things out. Yeah. But yeah, it is very tricky to keep the camera where you want it. Um, I also know by default, I think it's like, it's revert. I, I never know, like, when you, when you do with camera controls on the right stick, there's normal and those inverse, and which one I like, I never remember which one I like, but this game is the way I don't like, and you can't change it. So Thomas and I played this recently, right?

And I'll let you expand on this in a second, but there is talk of this originally having started on Dreamcast. I'm actually wondering how true that is, considering that the timeline was listed around May, and they dis, May of 2001, and they say, oh, yeah, after Dreamcast was discontinued, they canceled it, but Dreamcast had already been discontinued, so I'm not sure what's up with that. But if, let's say it was in development for Dreamcast, they wouldn't have had a right stick.

Instead, what they probably would have done is assigned camera centering to, like, the left trigger, which then Thomas, you noticed, hey, that function is still in the PS2 game. It is, and it feels better, I think. I think the camera, moving it with the right stick just feels very iffy and wonky and not responsive at all. and as you all said right already,

it doesn't feel good moving camera like that. But if I just center it behind me all the time or needed, it feels, it's not perfect, but it's better than if I do it the way I'm used to now. We should talk about the game more generally. I mean, you're not playing as Joe Misachiname or playing as Hotsamah, which,

who has a much more, well, I think much more dynamic. He's obviously Joe is very dynamic, but in this game there's quite a lot of wall running, there's quite a lot of dashing around, jumping off walls, multiple curved wall jumps over pits that kill you instantly and make you repeat

the whole level. It's, dude, I think this is a proper reimagining in a way that I was excited to see, right? Like, it's, it's,

it's a new character. It's a new style. It's all bloody and dark. A very different look. It's a dark game. It's one focused on very precise action. And they found a lot of new ideas in terms of how he deals with foes. Like,

obviously there's the raw, wall running, jumping, everything, but does that whole system, uh, I can't remember if it has a name or not, but is it, I think Diamond, is it the Tate system? It is, yeah, yeah, I think I was here to talk about, yes, this is, this is the joke I wanted to make a long time ago, yes. So please, I'll let you get into that then, actually, because I think this is very cool. So, yeah, it's called Tate, which is written in two kanji that I do not know how they, they read those as Tate, that makes no sense to me, but whatever, Japanese language, it has a lot of mysteries. But yeah, when you're,

fighting enemies, they appear on screen, there's like a little icon that shows how many enemies are, like, are active basically in the era area. And, you know, most enemies don't take a lot of hits. So the idea is if you can kill a bunch of enemies in a row without wasting too much time, then what happens is the sort of game stops and you get like almost like a mini cutscene where, you know, you put away your sword and then all the guys drop dead at once or like a split in half at once. And it looks, awesome and if you do that the game also gives you like more and bigger amounts like of pickups like you know instead of getting maybe like one health refill you get like three health refills like it wants you to do this the game wants you to do this and you as the player

want to do this because it looks cool dude it's totally that anime style like oh my what motion dude right where it's like the hero's like puts away the bloody sword and everyone just falls dead it's very cool I mean

I think it's absolutely awesome, and I never get tired of seeing it. The incentive, of course, is... It's not score-it's not sort of score-focused game, though. I think it does grade you and rank you on your performance. I've actually forgotten. It's been a while to touch this one. It does. So if you're able to...

And you can sort of build up the power to the extent that you can... I remember that if you're good enough in the levels, the bosses, you can either one shot or take a huge chunk off with one attack if you've managed to build this power up enough. But it's been a while since I played it, unfortunately. What's interesting about this, though, is that this was during an era of, like, third-person combat games becoming popular in titles like Devil May Cry, which had only just come out in 2001, by the way, I believe. No, yeah, 2001. Yeah, 2001.

Holds up. But games like Devil May Cry were very much, there was that connection to biohazard Resident Evil, right? And there was this move to make action games a bit more open-ended, where you're actually exploring. locations, obtaining power-ups, items, whatever, in order to progress, whereas Shinobi is very much a straightforward game. It's like, here's a level, you've got to get through the level, and then you get to the next level, which at the time felt a little bit older, but in retrospect, it's something I actually really like about it.

Oh, I completely agree. When I replayed, when I went back to this, I was very struck by like, oh, this is very linear. This is, and that's good. It's a very 16 bit stage by stage, learn the levels, get good kind of a game. You don't really adapt in this. I think you just learn. That's different.

I know it makes no sense what I just said, but it's not like in a situation you need to be going in. You need to be thinking, okay, I'm going to deal with this this way. And you don't generally get an enormous chance to make it up if you make a mistake because it's quite a punishing experience. But the levels aren't super long. And you definitely can feel yourself getting better

and feeling more cool and more like a ninja. which I really appreciated. I think it does capture the vibe of Shinobi 3 and Revenge in 3D quite well. I'd honestly compare it to, again, this is maybe a hot take, but I think that the 60, the Castlevania 64 captures the Castlevania vibe very well, while being obviously a different experience. You do get some of the same kinds of challenge. I think that's what you've got here with Shinobi.

Absolutely. I think. If I may, I forget who said this. It's been said a long time ago, but I feel like it really applies to this game specifically. Like, your character and their motions and their attacks, there's a lot to love about that. But as you talk about these levels, the levels are kind of boring. Like, it's a lot of streets and hallways. And I feel like, again, the quote that rouse around the back of my head is like,

Japanese studios, when they make a video game, they start with a character and like pick all the things the character can do and go build out. And they say that most Western studios they want to build the world first and then they populate the world with characters. And I feel like this, if that's true, I don't know if that is true for

studios as a whole, but it feels like it's true for this game. Because like Shinobi, like Hatsima, like the Hotsama, the guy you're playing has all this cool stuff you can do. But like you're running around. Like it's been, it's in, you're in Tokyo and apparently there was a big earthquake.

so there's been some kind of disaster. So, like, all you're doing is, like, running around these sort of, like, alleyways and rooftops, and it's just, like, we've seen a lot of games that have urban environments that are lively. This is not that. These environments are just empty. There is empty slots that you fight ninjas in. It means—I think it's a lot more core-like—I mean, as well as—I mean, not that you disagree

with this, obviously, but as well as fighting ninjas, there is quite a lot of quite difficult platforming in this game as it goes on. And I found myself enjoying the platforming to shake the game play up a little bit, but also it means that it's very focused. Something that's in this in the note here is Rob Fahey's review of the game for Eurogamer where

he specifically says, and I'm going to have to be quite rude to Rob now, I'm sorry. I pour rep off of a Capcom title referring to Devil May Cry. There wasn't even the dog's bollocks in the first place. One, it was the dog's bollets. And two, it's nothing like devilma cry if you hit things with a sword that's it like i really don't see that comparison as being a reasonable one but this was a long time ago so i'm going to go ahead and give rob the benefit of the doubt that you're all right with i i mean i'm just going to say

that he didn't understand the game i mean that that does didn't give it the proper i'm going to say it i'm going to say it skill issue just just say absolutely no 100% and this game is absolutely brutal like but i think that's part of the charm in a way where it i i love games that encourage you to replay it, which basically your knowledge is able to sort of transfer forward and you perform better each time. I think that's really fun. And Sega was really into that in 2002 because this is also the year of GunValkyrie on Xbox.

Oh, wow. Yeah. Which is another game that is absolutely brutal. And this has a like a mind bending control scheme. But I also loved it. It's the KDICRISA of the Xbox. Indeed. So this game, it has been a long time since I really played it.

but I remember liking it a lot back in the day. It was this and Maximo that year were two games that I really enjoyed as far as like... And it's tough stuff. Oh yeah, Maximo mentioned, Stuart Jepp Activator. Now we're talking. Right? They're similar, right? Yeah, there's like these 3D takes on classic 2D action games.

They're both level-based and they're both hard as heck, right? They're both very different from their source material. They still capture the vibe of that material very well. And they feel fresh. Yeah. And one thing we haven't even mentioned for Shinobi. I think, Thomas, you might have something to say on this, is his awesome red cape, which I think is such a neat touch.

Scarf for a 3D game. The scarf, not cape. It looks like, yes, his red scarf, which I believe, Thomas, he said, was something that one of the designers sort of created by accident, like, is a joke. It was a joke. It was a joke. He just lengthened that scarf, and then everybody, hey, that's pretty cool. Let's leave it in there. It was so cool.

And, of course, nowadays, it's the game's signature piece in a way. it is yeah it's so cool that they stole it for mega man x command mission that's how cool it was oh yeah the big scarfs and that's and really that scarf i think is that iconic piece that shows like these guys really had a vision for for their take on shinobi and it was clearly a labor of love that were a lot of time and effort was poured into creating something original that still sort of like embodied shinobi and i would say compared to a lot of other series that attempted this at the time, like the Castlevania games, for instance, which I have a soft spot for, but I don't think Lament of Innocence is nearly as good as this.

No, because they just try to adapt the 2D map design into the 3D space, and it just didn't really work, where these levels, I think, are better overall in terms of like taking a 2D-style game and making it 3D. I mean, I think that Lament of Innocence does a good job of capturing a not-very-good eagervania in 3-D. Having said a not-very-good eagervania is still fun for me. me so I'm just sure it's still it's still a good game absolutely I think this one's better though but I just want to mention real quick before we before we move on from it that if you do have a

PS3 still hooked up you can still buy this I believe on the digital download store because that's how I own it and it's out there I'm not sure if it's Japan only or if it's in the US port I'm pretty sure it's the US store you can still buy this it may have been delisted I don't know they did a lot of delisting lately but the PS3 store they seem to be forgetting all about. So maybe go and check it out. It is, of course, a 60 FPS field rendered game, by the way. So it's one that's going to look best on a CRT. Yeah. So it does emulate very well on PCSX2, but obviously do not do that. It's against the law. Yes. So that's Shinobi for PS2, but Diamond has more to say about it. So let's do it. Just one last thing, just because I blew my mind, because I like to look

at the, you know, I like to look up the manuals for these games, you know, to look back and see, you know, what do they tell you before you play the game? What information do they give you about the story, whatever? And according to the manual, they give a full credit list for all the actors, but somewhere in there, because most, I gotta be honest, like the Japanese, again, this is an era where it's like the Japanese voices and English voices are just two different levels, you know, like in Japan, they hired a regular voice actor to play the lead ninja, and he's still working today. He's, He's Cody in Street Fighter games.

This guy works a lot. Meanwhile, the guy who plays the lead ninja in English is someone named Jordan Rosa, and no disrespect to Jordan Rosa, but he barely had any credit before, and he barely has any credit since. So it's like, who is this guy? I don't know. But in the cast list under also starring, Charles Martinet is in this somewhere. Maybe he's making an imp. I don't know. Wow.

wait really yeah that's what he said it says in the book charles martini massage so wait which version are you looking at by the way i looked at the u.s manual the u.s manual says also starring charles martinay in the back wait i found it you're right it's in the middle column howdy crap that's three games he's in what on earth dude you've uncovered something amazing here i don't know i mean the the man works some different stuff he's got he's got a very varied hobby how soon we're forget BitTrip Runner 2 Future Legend of Rhythm Alien? How soon we forget? Well, this came first. True, it did. It did. Thank you. But it wasn't alone, this one.

There was actually a follow-up to this game, released remarkably quickly afterwards, it looks like. In late 2003 in Japan, and that was known as Kunoichi. I hope I'm pronouncing that correctly. But in where I played it, the version I had was called Nightshade. And I had no idea when I bought this

that it was related to... Okay, I'm going to be completely honest with everyone here. Okay, you know I like to put myself out there. I bought this game because I thought that the lead character was quite saucy I wish I was joking. I looked at us and went yes I'm yes I would like to marry this

ninja so I picked it up and yeah as was the style of the time I was I was an adolescent and I took it back home and I played like wait a minute this is freaking Shinobi this is the sequel to Shinobi this is awesome because I knew Shinobi yeah

but having said that this is awesome I have to say I don't think that this is awesome. I think this is pretty good. Like, I liked it, but I felt like a step down for me from the last one. It felt less focused and a little bit more like they'd sanded the edges off in a way that

made it less fun. It's very easy by comparison to Shinobi, I think. It's got many of the same mechanics, like the Tate returns and gets triggered quite frequently. But what I did love is that I feel like they push the boat out in terms of

the old situation rush in this game. because it has one hell of an opening stage where you're basically roaring through a city on the back of a harrier, it looks like, while another harrier is launching missiles at you that you deflect by simply kicking them backwards, which reminded me of Astro Boy on the GBA, where you can do much the same.

But it's not bad. It's just kind of like more of it, but maybe not quite as focused, I would say. I'm not sure what else to say. about it because it doesn't really stream well it's um unique it's more colorful for example that's something it is yeah it's a brighter more Sega looking game it's got

it's got Sega coming out of its pores this one um yes I want to ask Diamond about something because uh Tunaichi meaning female ninja specific to a female ninja I should say you've written that there's a joke in the uh I want to say I don't know that I don't want to expose myself as a not

Japanese knowing person but I don't know any Japanese whatsoever so you're going to have to explain this to me I will happily explain this. It's a funny thing that I love to point out to people. So, Kunoichi is a very unusual word, and that it's written with three different alphabets. It's written with Hittagana, it's written with katakana, and it's written with a kanji.

So you've got the Higigana Kut, and then you get the Katakana No, and then you get the Ichi, which is the straight bar, which is, you know, the kanji for one. Yeah, that's the kanji. And if you look at these three separately, it's like, okay, Kunawichi, sure. But if you look at those, those are the three strokes of the character for woman. Oh. So if you put them all together, if you put them all together, that's the kanji for woman. That's so weird because on there, I have the Japanese version of the game here and they don't write it that way at all.

No, no, no, yeah. It's weird. It's very weird because, honestly, from a branding standpoint, you think they would have mentioned Shinobi in at least one territory, but they don't actually mention Shinobi in any territory. but in Japan at least you've got the big Shinobi kanji Yeah, we've got the Shinobi kanji behind the Kunoichi and then they just have Pure Higana's Kunoichi

rather than the clever mix there. Right, and then if you play it in other territories, you've got the giant Shinobi kanji, but then you've got the English word night shade in front of it, which is like, okay, so I don't read kanji, probably, so I don't know this is supposed to be Shinobi game.

Exactly. How interesting. So, yeah, it's, I mean, I mean, there's a lot of odd things about this, but I do feel like it makes, at the very least, it makes a good first impression. I do love the fact that you have a big opening, which feels like the opening of like a superhero show, you know, like she's there, she's posing, a bunch of monsters appear, they scroll the screen around, like, it's very kinetic. I love that opening. And like you said, the first stage is very, it's just like, what are we doing? We're riding airplanes today and kicking missiles? Okay.

It looks like Bayonetta would become almost. That's actually, it's very much like that. It also reminds me a little bit of the escalation in something like Contra Shattered Soldier, where it's, or Neocontra, even, where it's just like, yeah, you know, you think you know this, but we're going to 11. Like, we're going crazy with this one, which makes it sound better than it actually is, I think, because after that, it does sort of settle down a bit, but it's not a bad game. I just, you know.

Some things to note, first of all, at this point, Overworks had been absorbed into Sega, wow, right? So Overworks was dead. that's over. But referencing the credits, a fair number of staff that worked on the original 2002 game also worked on this one. They must have been crazy busy because they shipped this one fast. And while I agree, it makes an interesting first impression. There's other aspects of that initial impression that I think suggests the game is worse.

Specifically, I think they messed up the motion. The way the character works and moves. First of all, you have this huge dead zone area. Like if you push low. left she'll kind of like go towards the left side of the screen then if you push right it like the whole character model like lurches over to the right and the animations just don't match it so her running animation is moving through the scenery ends up looking really weird and not very smooth compared to the last game yeah i found it quite muddy and imprecise compared to shinobi

the it just it just has a choppy feel to it that's not very pleasant and i'd also say while it is more colorful, other aspects of the visuals can look a little bit worse somehow. Like, it feels like there's less texture detail overall and like just things about it feel a little bit weird to me. Like it just, I don't know.

It feels like a game that needed more time in the oven. Yeah, it does seem like it came out quite quickly after the first one. So they must have been right into it. And you can tell. Yeah. Speaking of a choppy feeling that's rather unpleasant, the tartay system returns again to kill.

enemies with swords and here I found the camera even worse than it was in Shinobi which was quite an achievement it really swings around and gets caught up in the They get rid of the center button on L instead it's moved to clicking the right stick Ouch, yuck gross

Yep that's that's a real downgrade It's a huge downgrade Though again I should stress I really don't think that this is bad like I'd rather play side girls personally Oh, really? Yeah. Seigals, huh?

You never played it? I only heard of it. That's Konami, right? Yeah, I believe it uses some of the technology from Metal Gear Solid 2, possibly. I can't remember for sure. I might be wrong about that. Should we just talk about Sygirls instead? We could switch to Sci Girls.

This is now a Sci Girls podcast. Well, this was the era when you saw a lot of these developers just like the ladies were out. You know, you had Cy Girls, you had Death By Degrees, and Needham. Williams, stuff like that, right? Yeah. There's an episode in that, I think. Probably, but this, this unfortunately doesn't quite make the grade. It's, this is not a bad game, but it is a step down, I think, from the extreme precision

in hard action of Shinobi 2002. And then Shinobi kind of disappeared for quite a long time after this, not quite a decade, eight years before, um... Eight years. Yeah, eight years. Before it resurfaced. Actually, if we could, before we move on, I just want to point out, like, what John was saying also, if we don't forget, this came out, it was 2003, in Japan, 2004, and the rest of the world, which means by the time people were playing this, they possibly already played Tecmo's Ninja Guidon on Xbox, which is just, that's a game, like, that's a capital G game. Like, that is a game, like, it's hard as hell to get used to, but when you get used to it, you can do amazing things, and I really don't think, I don't think even if you use this game and I get really good at it, I don't think you can get anywhere near as up to speed as a new high boosta does in Ninja Guide in 2004, not even close.

Not even close. Only the Powell version, the power version of this came out at the same time as Ninja Guideon for Xbox, but the other versions came out early, but it's all around the same time. And, yeah, this has nothing compared to that. I mean, we'll mention, I mention as well, because it's here, is you can play as Hotsuma from 2002 Shinobi. If you have a save from that game, I think a clear save, maybe. A clear save, yeah. Though I'm fair, I thought that you could also play as them post-game if you've, or if you've beaten it. I don't think that that's just completely locked out to you.

There's a lot of unlockables and costumes. So, I mean, I never beat this one, so I couldn't tell you about the details. But I know there's a lot of things, like, you know, again, like mini-games this era, the idea was you play it a bunch of times, you get better at it, and you unlock more stuff, the more you play it, like more characters who have different abilities, different looks, you know. Which would, of course, now will be paid DLC? Yeah, yeah. Pretty trite observation there, sorry, very trite observation from the Jeper there. Stu, do you want to read Rob Fahey's word again? Because you're a game, I hated this one again.

No, I don't. I don't want to leave that. I want someone else can read it I'm washing my hands of wrong Did Rob hate it more or less than the original? Well no, he gave it a higher score He gave it four instead of three All right

Yeah So he played the opening level and was like All right, this is better And then I'll read it Oh fine, I'll read it He said a pretty damn poor game When stacked against PS2 contemporaries Like Devil May Cry or Castlevania

I mean It's not really wrong on that one but i mean he's once again mentioning devil may cry the man's obsessed you know what's better though is a bouging guy starring gacked really i'm not even joking from tito and red company i always laugh when gack comes up on retro nuts i just like can't help him sorry i don't blame you at all but you know he is he's all over that game if you've not played bougingai i recommend doing so because it's just it's also got a great introduction because the game begins with no um logos menus or anything like you put it in and it's just instantly in the game and you're just

fighting dude you're like wait what's going on and then after it's got a cold open and then as soon as you beat the last enemy in that area it goes to like a title sequence like starring gagged and all this kind of stuff and it's got like a whole music video kind of thing going Yeah, I remember this, because I did actually play this quite recently. I remember thinking this isn't dissimilar to Shinobi, 2002 Shinobi, vibes-wise. But Shinobi then vanished, as mentioned, for about eight years, until it made its triumphant-ish return in Shinobi. Is there no evidence, too, of there being, like, mobile phone games of Shinobi during this era?

I feel like that's something that would have happened, Diamond. I looked it up, John, and the only thing I found mention of, and credit to hardcore gamer for this, because I didn't even know where this existed, it's not mentioned on Wikipedia. There was apparently a Chinese-developed mobile game that came out the same year, so 2011, the same year as a 3DS game. Amazing. And they called it, like, Shinobi 2 in English. but the Chinese title is something else.

But at least from an international standpoint, they called it Shinobi 2. Apparently with Sega's permission. All right. I don't know. That's, I mean, that sounds exactly like the kind of thing you would have expected, and you're right. I see this here on Hardcore Gaming 101.

Always a great site, by the way. It is. Yeah. Interesting screenshots. That's the thing about mobile games from this area, is they often looked beautiful, but then you see the move, and you're like, oh. Yeah.

I always think of, like, the Ratchet and Clank game, or the God of War game, absolutely amazing and then it's like oh it runs it runs at five fps sweet yeah um but speaking of running at five fps chinoby three d didn't run a five fps um but it did run in three d on the 3d in 20s in 20 30 frames per second though it did uh but this was developed by grip tonight games and they are a bit of a interesting one for me because they made a lot of licensed games for the ds that are all surprisingly excellent i think like uh they made spider man web of shes Shadows, which is like a Metroidvania kind of 2D game, which was brilliant.

And they also made Shattered Dimensions, similar. But I also, to my preference, they made X-Men Origins Wolverine, which we all know was great on the 360. Yeah, I love that game. But on the DS, it is a shockingly good game, and it's amazingly close to this Shinobi game, weirdly enough, because you've got your parry with the claws, you've got your combos, you've got everything. And the Captain America Super Soldier on DS, which is extremely similar. They're all really good games that I would recommend anyone play, honestly. but they made this

Sheneb 3D in which you're playing as Jerome Masashi who is like the father of Joe Mousashi so it's a prequel I guess I mean it makes sense that it would be a prequel and I... It's 3D now. I played this back when it came out I had this and I didn't think much to it

but I went back to it for this and I found myself going you know what? This is pretty good I like this I don't love it I think it's too hard which is I know skill issue but I really do think this game

is nails hard from the beginning and you really have to rewire your brain to work out how to approach any of the enemies. They'll all get you, if you're not careful. Yeah, and you know, that is my problem. The countering mechanic kills the game for me. I think the fact that, I mean, I like the countering, but I think that it's a very disheartening game

because this is very based around scoring. Like, everything is scoring you or taking score away from you. And when you're getting hit by enemies that are just flying into a flurry of blades with like no wind-up whatsoever from off the screen, and hitting you and your score is dropping, you're just like, that's not fair. And you can adapt to it.

You can get used to the fact that every enemy you approach is going to throw at least three kunei at you before you get anywhere near them. And if you try and throw a kunae at them, they'll just throw one at you fast and get you. But I don't hate this. I think this is pretty good. I had a good time once I got used to it,

once I got to grips with it, grip tonight, you see. I mean, the game really has a lot of heart, I think. They really want to make something good out of this. Yeah. And I don't think it is a bad game. I think it's a bit of an acquired taste, and that's not,

that's damning it with Faye praise in a way, but they really tried. Like, there's a lot of things that call back to, like, Shinobi 3 with like a horseback stage, which isn't as good as the horseback stage in Shinobi 3. I might as well, that. Because it's like the sort of thing you'd play over the phone on live and kicking or something.

Sorry for referencing Lider and Kicking once again, listeners. I wish they did a shot at making a second game. like this. Because to me, this occupies a similar space as the Metroid 2 remake. Oh, Samus Returns. Right. Because, like, Samus Returns was good, but I thought it got bogged down with the counter mechanic. And there was just things about it that made it kind of annoying to play. But then those guys went on to do Metroid Dread, which I thought was significantly better. And I feel like this game has enough promise in it where you're like, I feel like with a second shot at this, they probably could have actually figured it out and got made something really

great. But as it is, it does kind of get bogged down by some of the mechanics and it becomes a little tedious, I feel. Yeah, I think I'd agree. I think, I'm a problem. One issue I had with the game when I booted it up, well, it was earlier today. I played it again, actually. There are tutorials in the game, but when you launch it, it genuinely gives you about 17 pages of instructions to flick through. Like, here's all the things you can do. And I I'm like, okay, either give me fewer things to do or introduce them more gradually than this, because I'm going into this game, like, what the hell? I've got, like, 600 commands at my fingertips.

And the game does not have a learning curve. It's just, like, nails. The first enemy will hit you, like, twice. And I don't think Shinobi was ever really about that. It was never about the balls hard. I mean, it was challenging. But it was not this ridiculous level of difficulty. I don't think the movement system and animation is good enough to support the level

of difficulty they have here, and the fact that it's limited to 30 frames per second also hurts. That's a huge lot against it. Like if this had been 60 and the animations polished up a little bit, I think it would have felt so much better. I mean, yeah, even honestly, even if it was just at 60, I think it would have been much more funny around. Exactly. I think that would have helped a lot.

And I feel like they probably should have done more to ensure they could hit that, including if they had to just change the visual style, even to straight 2D graphics. but like with that 3D effect looked awesome and they could have done it at 60 on the 3DS. Yeah. So I think they made a mistake by trying to do 3D at 30 FPS in this game. I do, I mean, there are elements of it that I do like. I do enjoy the platforming, like when you're wall jumping

and then double jumping to clear the spikes, for example, early on, and then you're wall jumping onto another wall in midair and then off that wall and over more spikes. And it just makes you feel very dynamic. It's a little bit contrived compared to the level design and the other game. I think. It's a lot more gamey, but that's, you know, it's fine. It's just, I did enjoy the platforming. I just wish that the combat was less annoying. Yeah. Oh, man, I was about to say that this was the only 30 FPS Shinobi games, but then I remember the Game Gear games are also

30. Yeah. But that screen is so smeary, it barely matters. And yeah, and those games are also quite, I mean, I do love those games, but they are slower and more methodical than this, and they don't kill the shit out of you quite so aggressively. Um, But, again, I don't hate this by any means. I liked it. I'm probably going to play more of it because I did have fun with it, but I just wish, I don't know. I mean, it's the best, it's a pretty decent 2D Shinobi,

and it's probably better than Shinobi Legions, but that's, uh... It is more potential than fun. That's the thing. Yeah. The one thing I will say, and I have weirdly fond memories of this in the sense that this game came out a few months after my son was born, and I remember there were nights where we would, you know, to sit up and sort of watch him and comfort him as he tries to sleep.

And I remember playing this in the middle of the night while watching him try to peacefully fall asleep. So when I think about this game, I think about those early days when he was like just a few months old. Right. So there's a little bit of a nostalgic feel there. Shinoababy. Shino baby, exactly. There is a spinoff we haven't got yet. Yeah, Shanobee kids.

I just, I was, I want to. to give a shout-out also because Gryptonite games disappeared shortly after this game came out. They got folded into some larger corporation. I don't think they exist today in any meaningful way. But a lot of the personnel on this game formed

together later. I found a couple names that I'm not sure to pronounce. Taryn Millet, M-I-L-E-T, Christopher Dershmit. That sounds possibly German. I don't know. But those people and others made Volgar the Viking, which

which is a pretty cool action platformer. And the sequel came out recently. Those are awesome. That's great. See, that's interesting because I like Volgaar, the Viking, but it's also, it gives me the same level of anger that this game does. Dude, Volgar is brutal. Volgaar is unbelievably annoying in a good way. Like, you will die and you go, how did I miss that?

God damn it. It's very frustrating to me, but I do like it a lot. It's definitely more precise than this is. It's definitely better feel than this is, I would say. Yeah, I agree. So, yeah. We should mention the sequel, Volgaard of Viking 2 came out relatively recently as well, and that's also quite good, so, yeah.

But that actually, until very recently, that's the final Shinobi game until Shinobi Art of Vengeance was formally announced quite recently, wasn't it? Was it a game awards, or was it after that? It was a Sony state of play event. It was actually formally announced very shortly after we recorded our first Shinobi episode. So it was one of those, like, Ritchin Us things where we talked about, oh, yeah, this series has been dead for a long time. Oh, it's coming out later this year. Yeah, so they showed it in that sizzle thing they did of, like, here are the five games that we're doing.

Like, you know, like the Sega 5, JetSat, Radio, Crazy Taxi, Golden Axe, Streets of Rage and this. We knew the series was coming back, but yeah. I think me and John and Thomas talked about it off record at one point because I remember that getting shown and just immediately going, that looks like Lizard Cube. That's definitely Lizzie Cube. I didn't know that for a fact until a bit later but now that we've seen quite a lot of it how are we feeling about this new Shinobi game Art of Vengeance

Basically it looks very good The one thing I have it very of is It seems to be combo heavy this time So in Shinobi games I like I hit an enemy once and the enemy is gone This time I have to do two hit three hit combos and so on So I will have to see how that works with the overall formula I personally

I'm a little bit skeptical, but it's one of those things where my skepticism is tempted by the fact that these people made streets of Roach 4. They know what they're doing. I'm sure this will be good. It looks like it might be a Metroidvania, which I also a little bit kind of about, but I could be wrong. I could be wrong. I don't know. Based on the trailer, I'm going to guess that it's not a Metroidvania. There's enough stuff in there that suggests to me that maybe it has more open-ended levels, but I don't think it's going to be actually like a large interconnected map necessarily.

That's good. I would be glad of that. Nothing against the Metroidvania is a fundamental concept. I'm just a bit fed up with them now. Yeah, no, I agree. To make it sort of symmetrical in this podcast, at least, I feel like Art of Vendence artistically and pose-wise, the way the ninja looks, the way the ninja moves, it reminds me a lot of Shinobi 3. Oh, yeah, they're definitely taking inspiration from that one here. I think that is their main inspiration extra. Yeah, there's also a grapple hook in this, isn't there, like hooking on to rebel points and flinging us off across the map I've seen, which looks very automated, I have to say, which is one of the things that may be go, hmm, about it.

What I will say, Stu, is that these guys understood Streets of Rage in a way that I didn't necessarily think was possible. I completely agree. I love, I mean, Streets of Rage 4 is amazing. I think Streets of Rage 4 is arguably one of the greatest brawlers that's ever been made. Like, it's so mechanically perfect in a way that's like, okay, this is. awesome. I think if someone said to me, this is the best buller ever made, I would find it hard to disagree with them. Which is why, even with the concerns, I feel like I have

enough faith in what these guys are attempting that I'm not too worried about it. Yeah. Yeah. And that's how August 2025, not long now. Oh, man, I cannot wait. I'm going to be playing the hell out of this, for sure. Now, that's all of the Shinobi games, I believe. And that's been quite inexpedient coverage of them. So, well done everyone. We've done, we've done, we've stuck in like a ninja, and we covered all the games, uh, and we didn't alert any of the guards. So that's good. Um, all right. We went in Shinobi style. Yeah, although I don't know why I said alert the guards when that's not really a Shinobi thing at all. That betrays my, uh, stupidity there. What were you saying, Diamond, sorry? I just want to ask an unfair question since we

have a moment. Oh, I love those. The series has so many forms. Like, there really is no one quintess of Shinobi game. Yeah. I really, You can't. You can't point to one and say, this is the Shinobi game we all need to mimic. But I'm just curious, amongst us here, which Shinobi game is your favorite? Because there's so many.

A lost system, Shinobi 1. Sorry, nostalgia. Can't lose. Okay. Well. I think it's an absolutely brilliant port of a very good game. I think it improves the original game, big time. And I grew up loving it.

I love the atmosphere. I love the vibes. I love the level design. I love that it's not too long. I'm not insane. I don't think it's actually the best one all told. I think that's probably three, but it's definitely my favorite. Mm-hmm.

Okay. So if I can go next, I would absolutely go with Super Shinobi with the first one. I mean, we talked about that. The second one has a lot of qualities, but I think the first one is just a bit more of a timeless classic, and really hits every note perfectly for me. Which I can't disagree with, but I got to go with the third one. or with Shinobi 3 or the Super Shinobi 2, as you might call it,

which I think it's just, it's basically a perfect 16-bit action game from start to finish. What about you, Diamond? You've got the deciding vote. A vote. It's not a vote. It's everyone expressing their own personal vote. It is a vote. Well, much like you, Stu, I feel like my own personal emotions kind of prevent me from, like,

being objective as far as what game matters most of me. and to me I just played so much of a Wren Shinobi and I've listened to that soundtrack so many times it's basically playing in my head at all times like even when I'm not playing video games the music is rattling in there somewhere you know it's always ready to come out and just I might vocalize it to myself for no reason

because that's how good it is so that's the one I think of the most honestly but I do think is remarkable honestly the fact that you have three different Shinobi games on the Mega Drive Genesis and even though two of them are technically sequels and one of them is technically an arcade port

really they're three different games and I think they're all excellent excellent game. Absolutely. Which I really feel like if you go back to our recent talk about like say Golden Axe like there's three Golden Axe games on the Sega Megatrib Genesis but they're not

all excellent. I mean you might have your favorite but they're not all excellent. I think all three Shinobi games on that platform are excellent games. And I think that's a rather good place to wrap it up because we've formally decided that all the Shinobi games are good, as all games are good, as we all remember, very fondly, from the excellent book of the same name. Please buy it. Look, Stu, I know you like to sell your book, but come on. Didn't we just rush past Reveno Shinobi GBA because we all agreed it with kind of shit? No, this whole thing has actually just been a sci-op to get you to promote my book.

book, sorry. My bad. No, I kid. Thank you very much for joining Diamond in the previous episode. Thank you for hosting that episode so excellently. And thank you, John. Thank you, Thomas, for joining us. We couldn't have done it without you, obviously. If it's Sega, we've got to get, we've got to get the Euro nonsense. We've got to do it. But where can our lovable, lovable scamp listeners find you online, John? Let's start with you. I'm on Digital Foundry and you can find me on social media at Dark1X Yeah, and YouTube.com slash digital foundry

We post over there. We also have our articles over on your gamer.net slash digital foundry. So you'll find me all over the place. Thomas? Right. If you want to find me, you can find me on a blue sky at Tapir Fortuna, like the animal and then Fortuna. Or if you're in Germany, buy an issue of M-Games. We like that, and you can read a lot of the stuff I write in there as well.

Diamond, I think there are listeners We'd love to know where to find you Sure, well, I'm around the internet In lots of places, I do a lot of work for retronauts, but for everything else, I would say go to my website, which is fightclub.me, F-E-I-T is my last name, C-L-U-B, that's an English word, regular word,

dot M-E. I'm also Fight Club on most services, so, you know, I'm around, and we, you know, I certainly enjoy talking about Shinobi games in general, and ninja stuff in Japanese culture, ninja movies, I've seen a lot of ninja movies lately too, so, yeah. And I'm Stuart Jip, and you can find me by looking for the name, Stuart Jip.

Please do not worry about the guy with my name who killed himself. That's not me. That's someone else, okay? Anyway, exclusive episodes of Retronauts, wouldn't you like to listen to them? Wouldn't you all like to listen to them? Yes, I know. And you can. Now, for $3 a month on the Retronauts Patreon, which is patreon.

dot com forward slash retronauts you can get our weekly episodes a week in advance which will make you incredibly yeah really for real genuinely yeah amazing but for me i know it is but for it's incredibly cheap isn't it and for a mere two dollars more though a mere five dollars which is less than your venti ferpuccino whatever you kids are drinking these days i don't even know avocado toast you will be able to avocado frape on toast you will be able to uh with a man bun i don't know i'm just being a dick you will be able to get a hold of exclusive episodes I recently alluded to, and there are two of those per month, full-length episodes, no half-measures. In fact, I remember one of them was even Super Metroid, for goodness sake, and you'd think,

you know, everyone wants to hear what we think about Super Metroid. I certainly wanted to know, and when I heard it coming out of my own mouth, I was astonished, by my own opinion. But you also get Diamond Fights tremendous this week in retro columns in both audio and written form, and they really are very, very, very good, so I recommend getting in on that. They're really good, Diamond. Thank you. You're very welcome.

I'll praise you to the skies all day long because it's true. And that goes for any of you. And you can also get onto our Discord, the Retronauts Discord, where you can currently... Has movie thingy ended? I can't remember if it's still going. It might have ended by the time this goes out, but we'll probably be doing some of the project. We're recording this in April, so we just finished our month-long movie madness. And indeed, Mortal Kombat was the winner.

95. Mortal Kombat, 95. It was. and it deserved it very much so that's good to hear but there'll be other projects coming along which I don't think I can talk about yet but we're doing some fun things on there soon

and of course you can go on there you can talk to us and we'll talk to you we will reach down from our pedestal and we will bless you with the light grays of our touch by which I mean I will go in there and get pissy about news of Mary Brothers

every few months as usually happens and thank you very much for listening I was going to do an April Falls joke because it's April Falls but then I realized that by the time this goes out, it won't be April Falls. So April Falls, I didn't do a joke. Hooray! I hate April Falls Day.

It sucks. But what doesn't suck is all of you, so thank you very much, both for listening and for participating. And we'll be back with more Sega soon, as well as other things that aren't Sega. Goodbye. Sega Super System. Sega Blue Skies. Thank you.

Thank you.