Retronauts - 713: Collecting Shiny Things

Episode Date: September 1, 2025

All that glitters! Join Stuart Gipp and Dave Bulmer for a casual, free-wheeling discussion of the wacky world of gaming’s greatest collectables. Retronauts is made possible by listener support through Patreon! Support the show to enjoy ad-free early access, better audio quality, and great exclusive content. Learn more at http://www.patreon.com/retronauts 

This week in Retronauts, the gaming equivalents of the shiny Alan Shira sticker from Merlin Premier League stickers in 1995. Hello, Nauties, welcome to Retronauts. I still call you Nauties. I wasn't the first one to coin that. I believe it was Nina Matsumoto, but I'm having it. I have decided it's mine. If that's a problem, then there's going to have to be some sort of discipline. Please don't find me.

Today, we've got a very interesting episode for the magpies among us. Do you see? No. Yeah, because they like them, don't they? They're magpies. And you know what? They say about magpies. They say two for joy.

and there are two magpies here today. Me, Stuart Gip, the host. How good am I at this? Like, come on. Like, I am... High quality. I'm like a high-colour, but DJ. I take that Reddit.

I'm not shet and ugly after all. But who's with me today? Who's with me today? Oh, hello. It's Dave. Dave Bulmer, the one who comes on the British... Britronauts, I think people have started calling it. Oh, yes, they have, yes.

Unless you've called it that. That might be the official name, and I just haven't looked at the... I believe I think I may have called it that, but, like, it's a bit shameful, isn't it? Britronauts. It's not... I don't see why. It's fine. Yes. Hello, I'm the other Britronaut. Dave Bulmer. I do these sometimes.

Yes, he does. It feels like it's been a little while, though. It's been quite a while. Yes, it has. I think so. But today's subject, further to the magpie discussion, is very exciting for me. It's, uh, it's shiny things.

Shiny. Shiny. Oh, wait, we should... Wait, wait. Wait, wait, wait. Uh, shiny. That was me doing the voice. voice from that Larian game. Oh, the Larian game?

Shiny. It was a, it's one of them games they made. I can't remember which one. Boulder's Gate? The lady used to go shiny. No, no, no. Divinity. Yeah, it was one of them. It was like a 3D, not even overhead view divinity.

It was old. It was pre-original sin, divinity. I really like the fact that one of those games is called divine divinity. That makes me happy. Yeah. It might be that one. That might be the one. Silly.

What a silly name. Is the expression divvy? as in, like, an idiot, offensive. So, yes, I think it is, except nobody knows what the etymology of it is. I've looked this up to find out if it is rude, and I think it is. Oh, that's a shame, because I was thinking divinity could almost be like, you've got a great deal of divinity. Could be, like, insulting someone.

But if it is actually offensive, then, first of all, I apologize. Yeah. And second of all, that's it. There's, I have nothing else. But what are we talking about today? We're already just in the weeds here. We are talking about... Are you surrounded by birdsong?

Are you a princess? Oh, yes, I am. Yeah, yeah. Brilliant. All right, carry on. Yeah, I'm a princess. Do you remember that bit in Funny Shrek where Princess Phuna sings and all the birds like die? They explode and they die. That's the thing about Shrek. It's very funny. In Funny Shrek when they subvert the Disney classics by doing that.

What are they like? I was what first time I saw that, I was kind of like, oh, this is just a very standard scene of the princess singing to the birds. And then I was sort of like, whoa, hang on, what's happening here? This isn't the same at all. that keeps happening in Shrek They might as well They should just play Get his name right

It's called Funny Shrek In Funny Shrek They should play a record scratch Just all the time Because of the surprise Yeah, every time anyone says anything Yeah Yeah

But we're talking about shiny things And what does that mean What are shiny things in video games Well there's a long There's a long history Of what could be termed collectibles And I'm not talking about crap Like a statue of an anime

That you would get By paying 150 pounds For a collector's edition that doesn't even have the game in it. Yeah, I just satirize modern gaming just then. That's what you get here. Yeah, no more, no more retching sounds, please. There's no, it's, you've made your point

that it's starting to get all too real. No, it's okay. But what I'm talking about are things that you collect that are beautiful and shimmering and shining, shimmering, splendid. Yeah. However, I want to go back in time for a second to think about collectibles in general in video games.

Now, I believe that there are almost, I mean, there will be earlier examples than this, but the first thing that pops to mind for me is the Pac-Man, you know, the yellow Pac-man. But what he's collecting, of course, isn't coins or gems or anything particularly shiny. But they are valuable, of course. It's drugs. He's collecting lots and lots of drugs. You've interpreted the fact that it's like a little white pellet-looking thing, and you've gone, there's a version of that that would be rude.

I don't know if rude is the right time. Drugs are quite rude. If the sort of people who have drugs are quite rude, aren't they? They go, I'm going to have drugs. And they put them in, and then they go, woo-hoo, I've gone all drugsy. I suppose that's true. But the way I think of it is if Dennis the Menace does it, then it's rude. And Dennis the Menace doesn't often, to my knowledge, abuse drugs in the Bino.

I don't think he does know. He's usually just using his catty or his carty or catty or a catty. I'd be like, I'm against this change. I think they've gone too far. I'll tell you now, though, how many years to where do you think we are from using the old ketamine or something? We used to be a real country. But anyway, the Pac-Man Hills, of course, you have to collect all of them to complete the stage, including the power pills or pellets. I know it's a very well-worn thing to say, oh, it's like he's having drugs, but I just wanted to make it clear that that's what they could be interpreted.

I just either that, or they're supposed to be like slug bellets or something. This is the thing, right, being serious for just a moment about this. The Pac-Man dots are really interesting because they are actually just abstract, aren't they? We may say, like, oh, they're pills, oh, their pellets. You can imagine their coins, anything you want, but they're not. They are just pixels. And they never really, I can't remember if it's said on the cabinet, like, these are pills or whatever. But basically, they're the only collectible in games that I can think of that are actually...

You know, you're not really supposed to be thinking of them as anything other than what they literally are, which is a little square pixel on the screen. Pac-Man is fascinating, fascinating abstract in general. It's just this whole game that's essentially about ceaseless consumption. Very easy to make political there, I think. And the retronauts, listeners love it when we get political on here. Oh, you better have then. Yeah.

But no, I was only bringing that up as a very brief lead-in in sort of the history of pleasantables. Oh, wow. Which one? No, he's one of the... Oh, which tory? Oh, he is Andrew Bridgen. Okay. Yeah, I think I saw him

on TV getting interviewed by Jeremy Pac-Man. Another banger. Oh, so far, so good. I chose the absolutely... I don't think he's in the party anymore. I think he's the one that left to go and hang out with Lawrence Fox. Oh, well, you know.

And then stopped even hanging out with him. Everyone stopped hanging out of whom and they noticed the smell. So the basic premise of today's episode isn't meant to be some sort of exhaustive history of collectibles or things. We just wanted to talk about shiny things what we like and we think I am good. This is, to throw the curtain back here, this one was my idea. It was Dave's idea, yeah. And it's because I've been wanting to make a video about it for years and I was too lazy. So I thought we do.

No, that's not why. I thought it would be a good idea. I did want to make a video for it. And I haven't done. But it wasn't just because I'm lazy. But because jewels are a thing that are, and this is going to bring up some stereotypes and so on, and I don't mean to do that,

but that's kind of my point. They're sort of feminine coded in our society. You're sort of supposed to not be very interested in jewels if you're a man. And you are supposed to be interested in them if you're... The tallest man in the world are made entirely out of gold, obviously. Of course. Then if you were the... Never mind the gold.

If you're the tallest man in the world, then you're expected to be interested in jewels. I mean, I am the tallest man in the world, but I'm not made entirely out of gold. But are you interested in jewels? Because here's the thing. Jewels are in fact lovely to look at. They're really, really nice.

And where more so than in video games, where we have grown up being shown lovely pixelated and or 3D-ized jewels. And we see them and we want to collect them. It is innate in the gamer. You just excavated a childhood memory for me. Oh, I? What was that? Do you remember?

You're going to remember this because it's you. Do you remember a part work called Treasures of the Earth? Yeah, I had that. Yeah, of course you did. Well, as a child, I never had that, but I saw it advertised on television, and I was like, oh, it comes with a precious stone of immense value. How could they possibly sell this for 1990P? It's when they're giving you diamonds.

It's crazy. But I never got that. But what I did do was, as a kid, I designed, because it's me, I designed a cartoon based on it, so the characters were like diamonds, and it's like a diamond with a dizzy legs, dizzy arms. our like stuff like that treasures of the earth except they're just like walking around doing stuff

it's like the smirfs if I find the picture if I ever find them I will post them on Twitter or something but this is the influence of these gems and these crystals

and these shiris if we're doing that if we're doing our jewels back story mine is that when I was really really little walkers crisps known in America as

lays crisps you may have heard of them American listeners did some sort of pretty typical that we walk and they lay down isn't it

oh oh Oh, that is rude. It is rude. They did some sort of a competition where on the back of each bag of Walker's crisps for ages, it might not have been Walker's some crisps, there was a jewel, there was a drawing of a jewel of the, you know, the classic Master Emerald design, that one. And you had to collect all of these, cut them off your bags or whatever.

And they said stuff like Topaz, and they said what jewel they were. And they were all the same color. It was just like an ink line drawing on white. But they said stuff like Topaz. and that was where I learned the word topaz I'm sure there were other ones as well but I don't remember which ones because I didn't go like wow that's a new word for me

and what you did was you collected them all together and then with enough of them you sent off for a sort of book that told you a loads of clues and puzzles and you had to do all these puzzles and if you were one of the like 1% of people who could figure out the puzzles then you stood a chance of winning some sort of prize

so that just made me obsessed with kinds of jewels without knowing anything about it's just like a sort of masquerade style thing where you solve the puzzles and then you know the location to find some jewels It might have been It was that level of puzzledge Yeah But that doesn't matter

The point is there was a little drawing of a diamond And it said Topaz And that got me all excited Our hearts Our hearts Are traveled faster That's better than the speed of love You know

You know, I think there's a tear in the life You know, I think there's an episode of retro-in-law, there really is. But yes, gems are good, and we all like them, but what we especially like to do is collect them in computer games. Now, it's not just gems as also shiny things also extends to certain types of coin, which raises a very important question, which I dare you have fact reminded me just prior to recording that we should definitely address this because it's a difficult subject,

which is what exactly is a coin? What is it? I'm asking you. What is a coin? Are you asking me personally? For me, I mean, if you don't mind me saying, I don't want to come off as ignorant on the show. But for me, when I look at a coin, it's a sort of, it's a sort of disc. It's a circle. It's a small disc. It's a little circle.

And it's ridged. It might be rich. Some of them are ridged. Somewhat rich. But also, there's a man on it and there's a man. Some of them have got a lady on them. Yeah, some of them have a lady on them. And some of them have a man on them.

And I'm not sure if that's like a sort of kind of outdated thing where only like people identifying as men can use these ones and any people like identifying as women can use these ones. No, that's what they are. They're gendered ones. They're gendered. For most of our lifetime here in the UK, only women could use coins. Yeah, that's, I mean, yeah, I can see women,

they do like shopping. But now it's our day. Now our time has come. Can I just stress the fierce irony of that joke I just made? I want to stress the very fierce irony that was behind it. It was being silly. We're both being silly. None of this is true. It's nonsense. Except that there are our

face is on the back of the coin. Actually, what the face on the back of the coin is. That's the coin's face. You can talk to that. And you can say, how much are you worth? And it'll go, one p. That's pretty good. Yeah. They don't say one pence. They say one p. One p is what they say, yeah. And then on the other side sometimes of coins, you might find a gate. You might have a thistle. You might have a three-pronged little flower, like a ferny looking thing. I don't know what that is. If you get the thistle and you trap it sort of between your fingers and blow, you can summon the family nass, which is. quite good. Oh yeah, that's good. You might, oh, sometimes you

might have a load of interlinked hands and if you rub one of the edges you get, I wish. Reginalist listeners right now, listening. Why don't they go to talk about video games? I'm sorry, we're never going to talk about video games. Oh, yeah, video games. So what we're going to do, the basic premise

is rather than anything particularly formal, we're going to sort of talk about the Chinese things we like in video games and what we like about them and about those games as they relate to said shiny things. And Dave, because you're my honoured, treasured guest. Yeah. Treasure, like treasure, like treasure. Yeah, yeah. And I'd say you yourself are a bit of a rare gem. Yeah. When I said that, I winked. I know you can tell, but you guys see. I can tell. I'd like you to go first, please. I'd like you to give us our first

shiny. Okay. Well, so, I don't even know whether to even bring this up, because it's so obvious. But, like, they know our proclivities. We have to get this out of the way. Chaos Emeralds. We've got to get the Chaos Emeralds out of the way. There's really no other way to proceeds that it's got to be done. Yeah, we've got to mention them. With luck, we will not, this will not turn into a five-part series about the Chaos Emeralds. No, they were. Yeah. So now, the Blue one.

Yeah, Jesus, we could as well, can we? Do you know, the Chaos, right, here's what I'll say. The Chaos Emeralds, inspiring as they are, and I've always loved them and very, very dearly. They're not very high on the list of, like, good-looking jewels in games. They're not very duly-looking. They look quite dull, don't they? They kind of do. The one time when I've really just adored them

is at the start of Sonic 3, when Knuckles punches the Chaos Emeralds out of Super Sonic and they all scatter on the ground. And they're all little, and they're different colours. And I had them on a sticker of that screenshot, and I loved it, and I put it on my bed, and I loved them. because they're different colors. That's, by the way, one of the best things about jewels,

and this is in real life as well, is that they're different colors to each other. And you can look at them and you can have a blue one, and you can have a red one, and a green one, whatever, and you can look at them. And you could be like, if you ever, I don't know if anyone else does this, but sometimes when I'm looking at, say, the blue,

like a blue sky, have you ever peered up at a blue sky, and gone to yourself, what actually am I looking at here? Like, what part of my eyes is seeing blue and my brain is accepting that it's seeing it. I can't exercise any other senses on this blue. So you ever just look at it and just processed that in the way that you did when you were a tiny little child and you had, maybe this is the origin of these thoughts.

I remember I went to a big marbles shop with my family. It's a dedicated shop for marbles. It was, and I picked out three blue marbles of different kinds, and I would just stare at them, at the different blues they were. one was a see-through blue one was not a see-through sort of blue oh my goodness peer at them and that's what jewels are like I will stare at the jewels and go like wow that is red that I am looking at right now

it came just out of the earth and it's decided to be red it's that colour look at that I'm looking into that colour right now one of the best examples of that colour that you're ever going to see I went to a geology lecture and this is exactly what they said actually is that true no no I went to a geology lecture That's me. I went to McDonald's. Now... Skip the geology lecture.

Yeah, I was going to go to the geology lecture, but on the way I was like, oh, hey, yeah, Big Mac, yeah, let's go. Imagine if at the geology lecture, they told you how to unearth jewels from the earth. And you'd, instead of that, you'd spent money on a Big Mac when you could have made money getting jewels. I would be fine with it. Yeah. I would just, I live moment to moment. I can be at my worst. you know, I've had incredibly bad days,

like terrible, painful, wrenching, emotional days. I remember one day in particular when I didn't have a job or sort of any prospects whatsoever, I didn't know what I was going to do, and I didn't have any money. No. I had like one pound. And one of the things I buy to,

or did buy at the time that would sort of make me have a small thing I enjoyed was like some Pepsi, some type Pepsi. Yeah. And on the way back in the rain from like the job center where nothing was happening, I went in the shop, sort of a shelter, and they had Diet Pepsi, but on that particular day, it was buy one get one free for one pound, which is all my money. And you know what? That was a good day.

It doesn't sound like a good day. I'm quite depressed now, having heard that. For me, it was, because I'm all about the moment-to-moment gratification. Oh, I bet you were fine then. I bet you were going, woo-hoo! I was like, okay, so what you're saying is I get to drink 600 milliliters of delicious cold diabetes right now, and then another 600-millimeter of delicious cold diap Pepsi later. I was people listening to this going, like, this is depressing. You are a monster.

But no, that's how it is for me. Small thing, that will turn my day around and it will make the day worth it. And that's how I feel about these treasures, you know. If you had those two diet pepsies and you thought, I'm going to make the most of these diet pepses. This is a philosophical. I'm going to make the most of these diet pepsies by opening them both at the same time, tilting them towards my mouth from two different angles at the same time. So it goes in at the same time.

And then at the end, you'd realize that actually... They both ended at the same time. So you might as well just have had one, even though you'd consumed twice as much. Or would that happen? Or would it take twice as long to gop all of that? That's my question. I think you would, like, I think you'd have other problems. Oh, well, it sounds like you had loads of other problems.

I did, but, like, I mean, for me, it's not about the, necessarily about the ingestion so much. I've completed the ingestion. It's about the experience of, oh, I've still got some more of this. That was nice. and now I'll do something else. Oh, I've still got some more of this. Yeah. That's how I feel about these gems, you know.

These gems. I mean, the chaos emeralds, for example, you were talking earlier about digging up gems. That's what Knuckles does in Sonic Adventure, isn't it? That's his main thing he has to do, because they have correctly identified and noted that the funnest thing to do in the world is to look for treasure.

Look for treasure, and find treasure as well. Do you remember Terrence and Philip, not without my eunice, when they look for treasure? Not really. Okay, fair enough. Do you remember Anika Rice when she looked for treasure? Yeah, she was always looking for treasure, wasn't she? She was always, she was cutting about looking for treasure all the time.

Yeah. I bet she's loaded by now. She must have had loads of treasure hoarder away. Yeah. Give us your treasure, Anika. They should send knights to fight her for her hoard. Yes, they should. But with the chaos emeralds, of course, I'm getting ahead of myself,

because those aren't actually the chaos emeralds. Those are shards of the master emerald, which is the big person of the emerald. Now, the chaos emeralds, as we all know, cannot be acquired, generally speaking, without completing a not very good special stage. Yeah. Like, for example, in Sonic 1, it's a big spinning, spinning-me-Bob, kaleidoscope, nonsense. Sonic 2, it's 3D half-pipe nonsense. In Sonic 3, it's Get Blue Spheres, which is the best one because it's the easiest one.

Yeah. But it's also, you know, I don't really want to do it all the time, which is where Sonic made it wrong because they put 26 of those or so in. Yeah, they did do too many of those, didn't they? They do too much of everything in that game. Good game, no, good game. Yeah. But the Chaos Emeralds, they are...

I want to move on from them quite quickly because... Yeah, we will, we will. We just need it to establish... Unlike a lot of the things we're going to mention today, these are integral to full completion of the game. So you really do need all of them. And thankfully, it's usually not that hard to get them. It's quite hard in Sonic 1.

It's somewhat hard in Sonic 2. They're not so much it used to be for me. And In Sonic 3, quite frankly, it's a breeze. But that's mostly because we've played their game so much that we know where everything is in the world. Yeah. And that's fine. But we know the chaos emeralds.

You know the grey emerald is the control emerald. Everyone knows that. Yeah, yeah. There's also the least appealing emerald, isn't it? No, because it's the most powerful one. Do you think there's a beige emerald? No. Well, I don't know why I asked you definitely know the answers to this.

I know there isn't. I've looked. Yeah, that's a shame. There's loads of pictures of the chaos emeralds. But on the sort of chaos emerald, on the same sort of, The Calais Emeralds aren't actually really emeralds, are they? They're just called that. They're not emeralds. But if you would look in the text thing for a second here,

we're doing this in a slightly shambolic way of sending pictures back and forth. You will be able to see what is known as Big Diamond, the Big Diamond. Stuart, this was my next one. See, we are on, we are in sync, we are Justin Timberlake and the other who nobody knows their names or where they are or are even alive. The big, now the big diamonds. Now, diamonds, everyone loves them. They're forever.

They're a girl's best friend. Yeah. No, sorry, that was gold nuggets and that was duck tails. Diamonds, everyone's favorite. And the difference between these diamonds and a regular diamond is, of course, they are big. They are big, colorful diamonds, each one of the colors of the rainbow. Okay? And the way you get these diamonds is in each stage you have to collect each of the different coloured gems of the rainbow in each level.

All of them, red, orange, yellow. Are you deliberately not saying what game you're talking about at this point? Rainbow Islands. I thought I said it already. I don't think you did. Did I not say Rainbow Islands? I don't think you did. Oh, wow, I'm not very good at this, am I? Well, I thought you were teasing. I thought you were building up to it.

Rainbow Islands, the story of Bubble Bubble 2. You know what? Don't get into the whole sequel, Crawlins. of this series, because it's an absolute disaster. But yes, get all of the different rainbow gems, red, orange, yellow, green, blue, window, indigo, violet, Roy G, Biv. We all know it. And then you will get a big diamond

at the end of the stage. And the only way to get to the secret islands in the game is to collect these diamonds. Now, it's not as easy as it sounds, is it, Dave? No, it's not. Now, I don't know this game that well. I had it on the spectrum, but only played it like a couple of times. So to me, I actually didn't know about

these. It was the little coloured gems I was going to bring up, but still of this game, so it's still, you know, kind of the same one. Yeah, Rainbow Islands a game where you get, what is it? You shoot rainbows at baddies, and they pop into little diamonds, and you have to pick them up, and are they random the colours they are, and you have

to just, like, try and hope you get the right ones. No, I believe you have to drop rainbows on certain spots to make the diamonds appear. It's actually more obtuse than that. That's right. The Rainbow Islands is a game that I believe it's not actually playable anywhere reasonable yet, but there is

Taito Milestones 3 coming out, and I think it's on that. There's not a current way that you can play one of the, because Rainbow Island is... It's possible it's on Arcade Archives, and I'm not aware of that. Because the thing is, if it was on Arcade Archives, I'm reasonably sure I would have bought it and if I haven't something's got

horribly wrong with me. Yeah, Rainbow Islands is a big game. It's no small potato fry. It's, when it was out originally, I remember it being a big deal, full page ads in all the magazines, everyone excited about it, is out on every single format. And well, it should be, because it's got that

Taito's style, you know, they're great at drawing. Yeah, they're good drawers, yeah. They're good drawings, and they're drawing a little anime boy who's hopping about, and he's shooting rainbows, at little animals with big eyes, and turning him in the jewels that are different colors. They're jewels and they're different colors. It's one of the simplest things in the world. This is something we've gone into on my podcast a lot. I'm into, or I remember particularly as a kid, being into, like, the same thing but different colors. That's what, the Peel of Power Rangers, right?

They just stand there, they're different colours. Chaos Emerald, same thing, different colours. These, these are better than Chaos Emeralds to look at. Look how shiny they are. They are. Look how bright and colourful they are. Yeah, and they're diamonds, you know. And they're diamonds.

I, when I was little, had a little dream where, I can't have been that little. I must have been about 10 or 11, even. Where I was on the school playground, and I was just kicking about in a grassy bit in the corner. Alone, as usual. Yep, and I noticed one of these jewels. in the grass. Specifically the ones from Rainbow Islands.

And I realized that they were something where once you've you've to just have to be on the right wavelength. Once you've seen one, you start to see them. You're like,

oh, there's one and there's one and there's another one. And so me and my friends were gathering up jewels. Ooh, it was great. Imagine gathering these up. Imagine if that dream had been really

be loaded, wouldn't you? I would, but also it would massively devalue. Like if it turned out there was just jewels everywhere. That's true, yeah. But if you were the first ones to the market,

it was sort of Bitcoin sort of thing, you know? Still probably not, but yeah. What if you were having a dream that there was Bitcoin hidden in the ground? Just leave it there, wouldn't you? What if? Now as you can get it onto your computer, it's absurd. I would just kick it away into the

cowfield and hope that one of them poos on it. So Rainbow Islands, before we move off of it, Rainbow Islands, now this is a game that has actually quite a lot of... Now, this is a very well-known game, everywhere, obviously. But in the UK... The Nauties all know all about it. In the UK...

this was ported by Grafgold to the the enemy of screwed the microcomputers David, come on not glom gold said something else didn't I you thought it was funny hell

anyway, always do it, it's always like this it's always like this but Grafgold very good software house, port house and also did fire and ice which meant that the conversions of this game for everything all the way down to the spectrum were magnificent. Yeah.

I mean, no, they're not arcade perfect, but you didn't expect them to be arcade perfect. We were versed enough. We would look on the back of the tape of the spectrum game. We would see the screenshots in full color, and we would go, well, it's obviously bollocks. There's no way it doesn't like that, but we don't care. Screenshots may not be from the ZX Spectrum version. Screenshots may not even be real. Screenshots may be made up.

But seriously, though, a thing that they did that's genuinely remarkable, is that there were actually like seven colours of jewel on the spectrum version that I had. The whole spectrum on the spectrum. Well yeah, but that is actually like, you know, the name is quite ironic and it is genuinely really difficult to pull that off and I don't know

quite how they did it. Can I just, as a side note, I know it's rare that we go off on side notes on our podcast. It never happens. This one time it's okay. Didn't the screenshots on the back of Spectrum games taken with too high contrast with a normal camera off the

Atari ST version, just look so much more interesting than modern direct feed screenshots. Oh my God, so much. Now that I'm old enough to have looked up YouTube videos of the Atari versions of, say, the Dizzy Games games that I had, I'm like, oh, that's rubbish.

Because I grew up looking at this just bananas incredible screenshot of like an imagination fantasy game from the year 7,000. To high contrast, off directly from a crappy old CRT television.

Just, like, digital blurs. I can look at them now, and it's like you're going through a portal. That's how good they are. The screenshot of fast food dizzy on the Atari just looks like better graphics than you can get now. Yeah, I'll be like, I do get it. I actually do get it. Maybe, I suppose, on this, with a good

bit of CRT blur, it would actually have looked quite a lot better than it does in those videos where it's all. It's possible. Now, something I want to bring up, actually, but I want to bring up, actually, because I, now, I, it's not that I wasn't confident in our ability to do this podcast, but I did poll, I did poll the, Retronaut listeners, the noughties about this. Now, this next, do you mind if I do one, I think, no, wait, it's your

turn, isn't it? Uh, technically, but you've started. Go on. I have started, haven't I? I'm really just stepping all over you today. I'm really sorry. Well, as you can see, uh, Dave Bomber.

Hello. This is a hero coin. Yes. Now, this was anonymicated by Task Barkitect on the Retronauts Discord. Thank you, Task Barthitect. Now, the hero coin is very good. It's very good.

Uh, I would have nominated this if someone else hadn't, because what the hero coin is, is it's massive. Yes. It's the same size as Diddy Kong. It's not bigger. Are you aware that you haven't said what game we're talking about again? Yes. Okay, good.

I'm getting to it. Just checking what your method was. It's Diddy's Donkey Kong Country 2, Diddy's Kong Quest. Not Diddy's Con quest. No. Diddy's Kong quest, okay? It's a pun because it's a British game. funny. And the hero coin from DKC2, as I will now be referring to it, is genuinely, for me, one of the single best collectibles ever for myriad. Myriad reasons. The reasons are myriad, Dave. Are you not going to believe how myriad they are?

Well, tell me some of them and I'll judge then. Well, I will, but first I'll say one and you'll think, well, that's not that mirrored, but then I'll do some more. I can't think of a single time when one has been myriad. No, I can't. No. Anyway, now, first of all, it's a big coin that says DK. That's cool, right? That's a cool logo of Donkey Kong, except in this game, Donkey Kong is being captured, and you're playing as Didi Kong or Dixie Kong. But it doesn't matter. They didn't have to switch the logo out.

No, they didn't have to. They didn't use these in Donkey Kong 64, because they got lazy and started naming them Chunky Kong and Lanky Kong, which is different letters. See, they should have called them Donkey Kong and what was the other one said? Dinky Kong. This is more one. It's so easy. Anyway.

Now, these hero coins are hidden remarkably well. They're very hard to find, considering that they are massive. Well, it really how hard they are to find. I don't really recognize it, and I had this game. Yeah, they are that hard to find, and there are 50-odd of them, and they are sort of the final thing to get. I don't think you need them to finish the game. They're not the crem coins, which is another type of coin in that game.

The crem coins are used to unlock a secret language. But I don't believe these are. They just put you on a roster of, like, a Rostrum, you know, of VideoGate. That's what they're called, right, those tiered platforms for people who have won stuff. A Rostom, the podium. Oh, yeah, God, no. Or is it a Rostrom? Or is a Rostrom, some sort of potato bake.

I really don't know. I don't know. I'll look it up. Yeah, this is Wretcherrots, not Wurtrenauts. Rostrum. It's a raised platform. You were right? Yes.

You did it. I'm going to put you on one for getting that right. Thank you very, very much. On which a person stands to make a public speech, receive an award or medal. There we go. You nailed that, Rustrum. Thank you, Dave. That's really kind.

This is actually really warm with my heart. Next time you see a Rostrum, you should go and stand on it too. I will. I will stand on it. And I'll get thrown out of whatever the event is. I don't care. Yeah, probably. Because it'll be for somebody else, won't it, that's going on.

And I'll lean over and I'll say, you're throwing me out for wanting to simulate the experience of having won something. Yeah. Anyway, DK coin. Now, first of all, they're very hard to find. So when you do find them, it's extremely rewarding. You can only find them in Donkey in Diddy Kong's quest. Diddy's Conquest? Yes.

Where I am succeeding at words, you unfortunately are. Now, I love the way that you pronounce that, because what you did there? Was it you did not succeed at words. I did not succeed at words. That was very good. I was, I made me happier than I was. I've been hoisted by my own brittard. Now, the best thing about these coins is when you collect,

done. They don't just go like ping or dong, they go like this. I can't recreate it perfectly, but just let me finish. This is quite a long noise. They go Blu-la-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-m. That's quite long. They do two noises.

Is it finished? They do the noise. Then they do the noise again in a higher pitch, basically. Is this still the noise of the sort of... Oh, no, no, this is, they don't do me speaking. Is this still it? No, it's not. It's not messing around. Is this still it?

Oh, my God. The bit is finished. The coins, they make a wonderful noise, the astonishing noise, a noise that makes all the struggle you've been through worth it, in my opinion. Well, now this, this is an important point about all of the pick-me-ups that we're going to talk about today. Pick-me-ups, that's not what they call, but they do. That's what they do.

They're pick-me-ups. Is that the best ones all make a good noise, don't they? Mm-hmm, yeah, yeah, they absolutely do, yeah. Yep, the chaos several go, do-me-do-do-do, no, they go. I nearly did a continue noise And that would have been absolutely wrong Continue noise, yeah, that's a good noise too The problem of getting a continue noise to me is almost redundant

Because who loses all their lives in the Sonic game Like, come on, no one, small children, very small children Who have bad hand-outic coordination But the thing about these coins that makes them very exciting to me Is when you get them, you get on the Rostrom as mentioned, okay? Now, the Rostrom consists of donkey-con characters, I believe. Now, to get on the number one position, you need to get all of them. But in the corner of the Rostrom, room is a bin.

The Rostrom room. There is a bin there, a trash can, as the Americans would call it, a garbage can. And there's a sign next to it that says, no hopers. Guess what's in the bin? You. I thought we were friends, Dave. No, not you personally. I mean, the player.

Oh, I get you. Okay, no, it's not the player. That would be quite funny, though. What it actually is, is Sonic's shoes. Wait a minute, that's quite funny. That is quite funny. Also, what makes it, well, I think it's even funnier, is there's also life. I'm remembering that now, as you say it.

I remember going, that's quite funny. Earthworm Jim's Red Gun. Oh, cool. Now, what I find funny about that is that it crystallizes the period in the games industry when Earthworm, the one, the one like month or the year maybe, when Earthwem Jim was considered a formidable franchise. That's exactly like if it was, you know, Zool's mask or something like that. Like nowadays, it's completely meaningless.

You see that it's like Bubsy's T-shirt or something. Even that would be more recognisable than Earthwem's big red gun, I reckon, you know? Bobsey's Exclamation Mark T-shirt. Now, so that for me is the worth of the hero coins, because not only do you get to look for these really well-hidden, fund-defined coins, And they are some of the best collectible placement ever. I think they're genius, the way they make you think outside the box to get them. Brilliant.

But not only that, you get some world-class shade and not an even better British-developed game. Let's hear it for the Brits. Yeah, right. I don't know. So let's move on to something else. What's next on your exciting list of trinkets? Okay, so now, I wanted to mainly do jewels,

because they're the ones that are the shiniest, but we're doing coins at the moment, right? And some of my favorite coins, probably in any game, is the coins in Wario Land Four. Oh, they are good coins. Aren't they good? Aren't they good coins? Don't get me wrong.

There's some great jewels in that game as well. And I think we can double up. I think we can talk about all of this. Because Wario Land is a collecting game. You are on the Game Boy Advance in Wario Land 4, and you are running about. And there's all sorts of things to do. It's kind of a platform puzzler. But this is all drawn along.

Your eye is drawn and your interest is drawn by the gathering of things, such as flying, like, the kind of crystal that's like a rod with pointed ends. Like a rupee. Yeah. Those are all of rupees. They're only rupees from Zelda, you're quite right. Little bit right, rupees. And then, they're flying there.

But whenever you, like, bash a baddie, all coins come out of him. And this is, this is, so far so normal, right? There's loads of games where you bash a baddy and coins come out. But the thing about the coins in Wario Land 4 was that when you, when you scatter them, they kind of scatter like at different speeds. It really looks like a little bit realistically. Yeah, semi-realistically. And there's like normal size ones

And then there's little ones And then there's tiny little ones That are just like a pixel big and beautiful And they kind of bimble along the ground And you pick them all up It's just, it's just gorgeous It's wonderful And you know, not to mention the fact

That when you go into, for example, Secret Areas in that game You can sometimes find a gigantic blue diamond Even bigger than the big diamonds From Rimbled Islands, it's that big It's so big Diamond the size of Warrior himself You often have to chuck an old man at it to get it.

Yeah, in a room that goes, do do, do do do do do do, do do, do do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, exactly like that. It's good. Can I nominate a sort of a wild card good collectible from Wario 4, please, the CDs. Oh, my goodness. I mean, I loved, I looked collecting. I suppose they actually are supposed to be vinyl, but not only are they, well, they're in

vinyl cases, aren't they? They're in, like, metal cases that you crash, you hit them, and then they open and the vinyl comes out and when you get them you can listen to them and they're always weird little videos of like a live action man dressed as wario, wild obtuse experimental noises play. Yes. And to me it's the absolute pinnacle of weird Nintendo right there. Oh, a thousand zillion percent. Like the only reason Wario Land 4 is not the pinnacle of weird Nintendo is because it spawned Wario where. Oh yes. Wario wearer, yeah. Which is. But like, yeah, it's the closest did you get to Nintendo weird on 100%

but within the confines of a fairly traditional kind of a game? I think this would be a good time for me to shout out the upcoming indie game Anton Blast, which may be out by the time this episode drops, which is a Warioland for homage amongst other things. It's very, very good. Anton Blast. Yeah, look it up. You will love it.

I guarantee it. I will. I'm doing it now. But, yes, Warioland series in general is a collecting paradise, frankly. Exactly. While we're talking about Wario Land 2, for example, the coins in that are very basic. But the thing that makes it good is that almost every single wall in the game, there will be more coins behind it if you break it and you will just go in to a void outside the level and you will find 60 coins there. If we're talking about... So this is one of the key reasons to talk about collectibles in games at all. By the way, in the course of my last few years, I've come to understand... that Americans, I'm going to generalise, I'm sorry Americans, but... To be fair, I made a quite lazy fact joke about Americans earlier, which I feel bad about now, so... Oh, yeah, that's bad.

And for me, it's the pot call in the Ethel Black, really. Well, they think of collectibles as kind of a British thing anyway, kind of a European game thing. They do, they do, scream by... Because, even though, obviously, you know, Mario collected coins, we all understand this. It's not going to really come up in this episode, I shouldn't think, because it's just understood. But our games, that was like so much a part of what you did. I don't know. I guess there's just a different, just some sort of difference.

European games had a lot of collectables. There are many games where you have to collect everything. Maybe they're mainly thinking of rare being, maybe they're thinking of Banjo Cazooey. Because that was a big collectie game. That had a lot of, that's a good one if you like to hoover up your bits. Yeah, I was about to bring that up actually. Let's do it. But yeah, well, trick them on.

Sorry if I got the name wrong. It's tricked the term. I'm not sure if that's a typo if that's the actual name. On the Wattronauts Discord brought up jiggies from Banjoji Zui. And I think jiggyzzi are world class. I think they're genius. Which one were they? They were like little guys, little birds or something.

No, they're the ones that are giant jigsaw pieces that are made of golf that's been around. And they're like the version of their equivalent of power stars from Marius. Of course they are. Why did I think they're better? They're little guys. You're thinking about the jingos. Oh, see, I'm just hearing the jim. And I'm going from there.

Okay. You're thinking about, yeah. See, this is how I got my name, Jip, Jiggy, Jindjo, Jip. Oh, I wondered. Yeah. But the thing about the jiggy is, like, what makes the Jiggy psychologically brilliant is collecting a power star in Super Mario 64, Super Mario 64, is cool. It's like, cool, I've got a star, but, like, it's a star.

It's just a star, you know. Cutting a jiggy, you're like, I have got a piece of something. And if I got all the pieces or enough of the pieces, I can do a jigsaw puzzle. Put this together. You make something bigger. It's not a real jigsaw puzzle. This is automatically solved unless you're playing banjo-tui,

in which case you have to do a small jigsaw puzzle, which I think is one of those feature creep things that really shouldn't have been in the game. But I digress. I love banjo toi. I'm not going to crap on banjo too like everyone else does. I think it's a masterpiece, but collecting the Gigi is the best thing about that,

apart from the thing I already said was the best thing about that. The other best thing about that is when you collect them, banjo does a little dance, and the music on a banjo goes, da-da-da-da-da-d-d-d-d-d-d-blum Go-ha? Yeah, and he goes, go-ha. Now, what goes hand-in-hand with a good collectible,

as we have talked about, is an excellent reward for getting the collectible in the moment. And I think that do-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-ha-ha is up there with It's a very good one. I mean, listen, we can't. If we're talking about collectibles and their good noises, in that game. We've got to go, Ucon, borgom.

Ecombe Borkom. It's one of the best collectible noises that any game has ever had. It is actually true, yeah. You collected little skulls in that game and they went, Ucon, borgum. Yeah, they were Mamba Jumbo Jambu skulls.

Yeah. Mambu Jambu Jambu being a character from the game. Now, I don't know if anyone who listens to Retronautes is where that I enjoy V-Cupers, but there was a very entertaining period of my life when Iugami Kourne was playing by Jujibu.

and uh oh i've seen you you don't know joy on until you have seen her mimic ecumbokum yeah that's a good it's joyous i implore you to look at our coronet ecumbokum now the thing now the thing isou of course isn't just about jiggies they are the main thing you have to get yeah you get jiggies with it yeah oh oh that's very good dave thank you yeah well done but you also get musical notes notes which surely there's been a game before this where you collect musical notes there is something in my head but I can't quite piece together

what it is I can't quite piece together what it is but there must have been one but collecting them in this game is great because when you collect them you do indeed hear a musical note it's all very diagetic you know it's lovely it works And with the focus Now I'm a big fan of the musical notes

For a reason that is quite controversial actually It's quite a controversial reason He's sexually attracted to them I said not to say that But no They're an interesting collectible Because to get through some of the late game You need certain numbers of notes

To open certain doors And the later ones are very high They're like 880 out of 900 really lots of them. And the way that you get the notes is you collect them and then when you either leave the level or die you have a top note score

which means to get all of the notes you have to collect every note in the level, all 100 of them and not die, which is in the later stages it's not the easiest thing to do. Now, a lot of people don't like that and I kind

of understand why. I'm open to understanding why. And later in the Xbox 360 and rare replay versions of banjoo kuzzi and banjo toi, although not to be actually just kizui. They changed it so that when you collect a note, you've always gotten the note. Right. Which turns the notes from an interesting challenge into just bollocks, like just some shit that's lying around. Yeah, I don't see.

And I find that, like, I find that mildly objectionable. And yet when I voice that objection, I feel like I'm wandering into the terror. of you didn't beat the game. You may think you beat the game. You may have seen the ending. And I don't want to be that guy. Except in my heart of hearts, I am that guy, and I do want to be that guy. But I can't publicly be that guy because I will be shouted at on the internet again.

I don't want that. No, nobody wants that. And that's where collectibles begin, you know, when we get into the interesting question of collectibles and difficulty. But before we, rather than get into the weeds on that one, let's talk about perhaps a different collectible from a different game. Do you have one in the old revolver there in the old chamber? Yeah, I do. And I'm going to do one now. I'm going to do one now that is proper.

jewels, right? Oh, I'm excited. I'm going to tell you some of the best jewels you can get in any game. And as soon as I say it, as soon as I say, you'll be like, oh yeah, of course. It's all of the different jewels in Shovel Night. Oh, those are good jewels. Oh, oh, oh. Well, hello. Well, hello.

Now, Shovel Knight. I don't know how retro a game has to be to be on Retronauts, but it's distressingly a bit older than... I'm pretty sure that it just turned 10, so it's now retro yeah but you know they're re-release you know they're doing a re-release of it right with new stuff yeah new stuff they're doing a sort of yeah quote's remaster of shovel of hope which was the original shovel night campaign before they had all the stuff and now it's got 20 playable characters and rewind and safe states and all sorts of things like that oh i might want that then and everyone on the internet is like oh i can't believe they're re-releasing shovel night again and i'm like wow shovel night

can't wait i love shovel night well the reason why shovel night is particularly good is there's many Anyways, one is that every two minutes in shovel night, no, that's not enough. Every 14 seconds, I bet, in shovel night, you do something that makes a jewel or a coin come out of something, and you then want to get it. That is constantly happening in shovel night. All of them are real good.

They're really, really, really nice to look at. They've made lovely little jewels. They've made ones that are like little green square ones, little emeralds. They've made ones that are, what other shapes are there? there's, like, there's red... There's big red diamonds, yeah. Big red diamond-shaped ruby ones.

Even bigger purple ones. Ooh, there's the kind of middle-sized blue ones, I think, that are nice as well. But... Very very small ones as well, the tiny white ones, yeah. Oh, I like those ones. And also, there's a thing in Shovel Night where you're not just breaking blocks to get jewels out. You're not just hurting enemies to get jewels out. You go up to clumps of earth that have got little...

little nuggety bits and bob sticking out of them so you can tell that they're full of jewels and you dig them with your shovel and they explode out with all jewels and you have to go and collect them all. The best thing about it is that the biggest jewels don't come out until you've done three digs. So it's like

increasingly shouring you with riches. I like the ones that are on the wall and when you knock them down there's a ball and if you hit the ball in midair it bursts and all the jewels come out. It's perfect. They're so, right. Everything about that is perfect

It's not just like Oh, we like looking at jewels But they made it They came up with ways to make it That you feel how the jewels are You know? You have to dig them out And scatter them and stuff

They're so nice I like those jewels a lot The thing that hurts the most Is when you die and you lose some Oh It really It makes you obsessed with catching that Flying bag of your stuff

It's worse than losing lives I would rather just go to a game over than lose my monies. Yeah. But, yeah. Also, interestingly, as everyone presumably knows, you can break the mid-level checkpoints to get modules out of them if you want the game to be more challenging. And my favorite thing that they did is between some of the stages,

not all of them. I think every other stage, there's a sort of... No, it is every stage. There's a campfire sequence. A bit like old knacks. But at the end of it, you can actually put out your campfire like you are supposed to do legally by... digging it and more jewels come out of it.

I didn't know that. Yeah, and you get a little trophy as well, like, be smart, be safe or something. Only you can prevent forest fires. It's very cute. It's very cute, yeah. Shovel night is wonderful. I'm glad we got a chance to talk about Shovel night. It's brilliant. It's the precursor to the whole

modern, like, well, not the pre-pre-cursor, but one of the most important modern retro throwback games in its direct, like, yes, we're doing a sort of a semi-sequels, but with Mega Man thrown in there and also shovels. Well, that's why I started saying. I don't know how old a game has to be to be on Retronauts,

but it is a retro game. Well, that's my... I mean, I've done it into episodes about games that are brand new that happen to be retro-e. I think that's fair enough, really. And if anyone says anything about it, why she'll simply ignore them unless it's Jeremy or Bob, in which case I shall say, yes, Jeremy, yes, Bob, I'll do as you say.

Yeah, obviously, yeah. But even there, this is a 10-year-old game, so I think even there. I think it is now 10. Yeah, I think it's 10. That's why they've done this Shovel of Hope remaster thing, which I'm looking forward to, and I hope isn't too expensive

because it will be about the fourth I've bought this freaking game. Yeah. Yeah. Do you have more to say about Chauvelinite? Not really, no. I know, here's the thing. Now, we've talked a lot about rareware today

because you have to because a lot of their games are based around collecting cool things. Yeah. And Bonn, on the Retronauts Discord, has nominated Donkey Kong 64's Golden Banana. Oh. Now, the best thing about the gold banana,

is when you collect the gold banana you go, no, not even when you collect it, when a gold banana appears in the level or is revealed, the voice over there is like a mystical noise and the voiceover goes, oh, banana. I can imagine that being funny when you're a kid. People saying banana in an amusing way.

All 200 plus times that you hear it, it's funny. Isn't it interesting? There isn't a generation that hasn't had a thing where someone says banana and that's funny by itself. Like that was our Generations 1. Previous generation had like the television program top banana. And now the minions do it.

The banana splits. Bananas in pajamas. The minions do it now. They say banana in a musingly. Or banana. Now what? Aren't the funny minions funny? Oh, the funny minions are really funny.

But I'm a little bit concerned that what's funny about the way all of these different people say banana is that it's kind of in a sort of an African accent. I wonder if that's the origin of the comedy of saying banana in a way and I think it might be problematic. You might be right about that, yeah. There's problematic bananas, yeah. So I don't know about that.

And that's why I, it rankles me a little bit when minions say. You've been rankled by it. A little bit. But of course. But that's the only way in which you're rankled by minions in all of the respects that you find fine fellows and wisdom, the best.

But I might, but of course I might just be making that up and it might just be an amusing thing that someone came up with, like, I'll say banana. I mean, in English, the word banana is quite funny in a sense of it's just... It's a syllable, and it's the same syllable twice, and they both have the same sound. So that's amusing, inherently. You can, when you were a kid, you can have fun going banana, nah, nah, nah, nah. Yeah, you can...

In England, you can say to someone, oh, you're nana. And you've called the same thing. And that's... And you've got Banana Man. Then there's Banana Man. Banana Man. So, okay, so, okay, so we've established bananas are good. But what about the golden bananas do?

I'm going to just put my, now I think what you've raised is a valid point. But I'm going to pitch, from my perspective, I think it's funny in Donkey Kong because it's Donkey Kong saying it. And I don't, I don't, I think it's just because when you look a big gorilla and you imagine what its voice might be like. Yeah. It's funny that it's like, oh, banana. I feel like it comes from an innocent place. I'm not saying that it's born in an innocent place, but I feel like it comes from an innocent place.

We've managed to find a way to be woke in the banana episode, and that's good. There's a banana episode of Retro-Rot. We should change the name of Banerator's. Dear Retronauts, I am sick and tired of this woke banana stuff that keeps being inserted into your shows. You're someone who's never listened to it. Retronauts and was told about this by someone else.

There's a purity and an innocence in just being really excited about a banana. There is. I wonder if I should do my funny banana man joke, which is incredibly offensive. No, I won't do it. I thought, at first, I thought you should. And then you got to the end of the sentence. I thought, oh, maybe you shouldn't. Yeah.

A long time ago, I thought of a banana man joke that I think it's hilarious and no one has ever responded to it positively. So maybe later. Send it in to the Beano and see what they do. Yeah, they won't print that. Unless they will. Maybe they bloody would now, knowing what they put in there now. Anyway, gold banana.

Now, the gold banana is the entire point of Donkey Kong 64. You have to get as many of them as possible. You don't need all of them, but you need lots of them to finish the game. In fact, in reality, you need... Now, I can't exactly remember how this works. You need blueprints to get more time in the final level, because it's like a timed level. Okay.

So you can get through it with a sort of... minimal number, but it's not possible to finish without a certain number. It's literally, you can go to the level, but you will not have enough time to finish it. Now, if you fail, you just get thrown out. You don't, like, lose enough to start over the whole game or anything. But it's interesting, I think, as a premise. Now, Donkey Kong 64 is one of the more maligned games by Rare. It is widely considered online on the internet to be bad.

Which game? Donkey Kong 64. Yeah. Is it? because there is too much collecting and there is a degree to which I can see where people are coming from when they say that. Yeah, it's factually true. There's a lot going on there.

You're collecting single bananas. You collect coins, golden bananas. You collect crystal coconuts. You collect four or five different types of ammo. Gold banana fairies, banana balloons. I could go on. There's lots of watermelon. I do remember that after the great enjoyment was had playing Banjo Cazui,

we then got this. And it was like, well, this is definitely more of what we like, but it felt a bit heavy, a bit much. The thing is, it is, and yet I want to take this opportunity while we're discussing the game on here, to just say, if you vibe with Dong Kong 64, if you are prepared to accept what it's throwing at you, I think it's a bit of a masterpiece. The amount of stuff and seek, now, here's the thing, I was going to say this earlier, and this is relevant, and this is actually something. I think is potent and worth mentioning. Not that everything we've said so far hasn't been unbelievably incisive, but this is very potent also.

Now, I've been thinking about this as of just recording, and it's only just occurred to me, and I'm not emotional, but I have slightly moved because of what it means. Now, I was thinking back to one of the first video games I ever played with Sonic the Hedgehog on the mast system, 8-bit Sonic, okay? And I didn't really know what I was doing,

because I'm, you know, I'm like four. I don't know what I'm doing. So I'm mostly as someone else playing it and I'm sometimes doing some stuff and I'm watching it. I'm just kind of like, yeah, this is fun is look at Sonic and he's doing stuff, you know. Now, at the beginning of level two

of Sonic 1 on the mast system, if you go to the bottom left, you fall into a cave and if you go to the bottom left of the cave is a sheer wall onto the right is progress, yeah? I remember watching the guy who was playing it

jump into that wall and the wall is false and he goes behind the wall, The wall is still there. You just can't see Sonic anymore. He's going into a little tunnel. And because it's 2D, obviously, it's obscured. You know, you can't see the tunnel.

Where is it? Those two there into a tiny room. Now, when you're in that room, all you can see around you is that checkered pattern of the platforms. So the Sonic classic checkered pattern, brown, hazel brown. And there's an extra life in there, a one-up, the most valuable thing in that game,

apart from the Chaos Emerald, although it's arguably more valuable even than that. And thinking about it now, I think that seeing that might have been the moment I realized that video games were really, really cool. Because it's like, oh, secrets are hidden in them in a means

by which I've never conceived of a secret being hidden before in a completely new medium. Yeah. And that's cool. That's why I like collectibles, you know. Yeah. There's nothing that pleases me more than walking through a false wall and finding a thing. It's like why Super Frog is one of my favorite games, because

it's only that. Stuart, that's my next one. Oh, what a great cue. Super frog and it's secret walls. But no, but wait, but hold. Because this one is That was what Egypt sounded like That's what Egypt sounded like when it was a thing

Yeah So in Superfrog Just to establish the general... As if I ever got that far in Superfrog Honestly, go on, though I don't think I've ever got past the castle stages Oh, well then I might be about to blow your mind I'm excited about this, I'm excited about this

Everybody, Superfrog, I'm sure Retronauts has talked about Superfrog for so I won't tell you all about it, but you're a frog. We must have talked about Superfro. I mean, who else would have done? We'll do it. And you are a frog, and it's a platform game, but it just is a good... Sponsored by Luke's aid.

Yes. It just is a good platform game, and it has collectibles in the way that a British game does. Oh, boy, does it ever have collectibles. Oh, my God, it does. And the way that it has some... I mean, they're all over the map. They're littered everywhere, and they're of different sorts and types. And most of them are things like apples and bananas and bananas and

pairs and things. The iconic collection of fruit that is so associated with our games industry. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But then there is a thing which I as a child used to call a let-through. And that's not what it's called. It's just a secret wall.

And the way that they work in Superfog is, you go to a wall, and if you reckon that it's a secret wall, you just touch it. And the anime, basically he pauses in what he's doing, if you jump to it, he pauses in the air, while the animation of the wall rolling away plays and it will just

roll away. There'll be a rolling under a sound of rolling rocks and the tunnel will go off into as far as it goes and then Superfrog will shout something that's presumably Wahoo I was about to say it isn't there like a Wahoo kind of noise? Yeah there is And I thought he said

Let through, let through I have been let through so I called it a let through Now these usually are just like Oh in the first level which is all kind of Woodland themed you'll just find a little cave in the wall and you'll find more fruit in there or whatever. Brilliant.

You might find spud. You might find wings. You might find Lucas Aid, that sort of thing. You might find the tiny Superphrod that gives an extra life. And my memory of this is hazy, right? I've not played this since the 90s, since the early 90s, like the last time I played Superfund, but in the fourth world, which is ancient Egypt and has absolutely brilliant, Alistairbrimble music in it,

there is an epic let-through to end all let-throughs. It's an amazing moment. So you're saying they follow through with the let-throughs? They do. If you can find your way down to it, there is just like a little underground maze of these things, one of which you touch the wall and it rumble, rumble, rumble,

let's through, and you go in there. And there is just this massive, you know, and it must have been a reference to like, you know, Toot and Kamun's tomb. It's like this huge burial chamber of stuff. and the collectibles in there, they're lovely jewels. The Toon's, Carmonds, Tomb, if you want to be let through,

there's like a horn and you just squeeze the horn on the door, and you toot and come in. Oh, good, I'll try that, then. That's good. I'm glad that you've given me that factual information. So, it's full of jewels. And in Super Frog, the jewels are, sometimes you get little diamond jewel.

I don't mean diamond the jewel. I mean, diamond the shape, you know, a square up on its end. that shape. There's jewels of that, all different colours, of course, and then there's one kind of jewel that's like two or three little jewels all together in a little sparkly array.

A cluster. A cluster. Beautiful, absolutely lovely, and you've got a whole room full of them, and you're doing that thing where you jump up and down through them, leaving zigzag holes in the collectibles. Like the Yellow Switch Palace in Mario World. Exactly like the Yellow Switch Palace.

Yeah. So that's a good... And by the way, then, once you've been through that room, you're tempted to go back out again and up to the normal level. Don't do that. Go down to the bottom. Underneath the original let-through, there's a second let-through. Secrets within secrets every time.

Every time. And this one goes on for so long that you've never experienced anything like it. It goes like rumble, rumble, rumble, rumble, rumble, rumble. And you go and get like a cup of tea and you come back with it still rumble. Rumble, yeah. And then he goes, let through. And you go, yes. And you go through there and there's just room after room after room of not as much stuff

as in the first room. but there's more of them. So, yeah, Super Frog Jewels. The fact that you thought that he was saying let-through and that they were called let-throughs and that you are adhering to this even now is beautifully balmer. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I can't get rid of it.

I can't get rid of it. It's stuck in my brain as if it was true. It's not true. Wonderful. Thank you for sharing this. No, but who cares? Make your own truth. Okay, Stu, I'd like you to click this video because this is the moment.

I'm watching it right now. You can get this is my live reaction, okay? Yeah. Do you know what? It's mostly fruit. Oh, my goodness. That's it. You know what?

It's mostly through. It was wrong. Maybe that's not the room I was thinking of, but there was some jewels in it. Look how many... Look at all those bananas in there. I know. Are you saying that everything you just said was wrong?

And you've just wasted... Everything I said was wrong, unless there's another bit that I'm thinking of that this isn't it. Oh, this just makes me want to play Super Frogs. Remember when they did it in HD and it was just... It was like. someone had done a big sick Do you know what annoyed me was that

the gameplay was good But it was just those looks I just could not get over those looks I tell you Yeah all we need is for somebody To patch that to be real Superfog You know I think I actually finished The HD Superfrog

But it's not the same levels You can unlock the old levels In the casino mini game It's not even the right levels No the main game is all new levels But you could actually unlock all the original levels But not with the original graphics So it's not there's no point

That's disgusting yeah it's sickening isn't it I don't know what I'm thinking Team 17 have made some leaps and balance since then Okay Would you like to know an interesting piece of Super Frog trivia Before we move on? Yeah, of course

They made a game on the GameCube, PS2 Et cetera called Worms Blast Which is a bit like a puzzle bubble Except Worms And Super Frog is one of the playable characters in it Oh cool How good is that? That's really good

The only problem is you have to play You have to play Worms Blast In order to access him But he's there Oh, that's a problem Well you don't You can play Superfrogters frog.

Yeah, that's true. They don't play Wernsplats Places Blumrock instead. Why not? Buzzlebubble is a good kind of game. They can't have gone too far wrong with it. No, they did. Imagine Puzzlebubble, except you're in a boat.

Uh-huh. You're shooting Worms-style basooka shells at the things above you. Instead of just pressing and they fire, you have to do worms-style firing. And, I'm not finished. If you miss and the shell falls on you, it will hurt you and you will go under the water and you will be damaged. Now, also, if you knock the blocks down, by changing their colour and they fall down.

If they fall on you, you also get hurt. So you have to not only do puzzle bubble, but you have to do puzzle bubble like it's space invaders and you have to dodge the things that are falling down. This sounds like a lot of fuss and bother. Yes, it is. It's a fath, is what it is. I forgot a really important thing about

the Super Frog jewels. I forgot. Yeah, what's that? One of the kinds of jewels is crowns. So there's little crowns about the place littering the floor and you collect them and it goes but a-l-l-ling. Crown Jules. Yep. Great.

Yeah. Breakfast. I think Robicord had that as well. Yeah. If it's okay with you, I'd like to jump forward a little into a different console altogether because there are some gems that we can't not comment on. Okay, great. Let's do it. What's that? Now, have you ever heard of the computer games franchise Crash Bandicoot? Is that the one where you are some guys in a boat and you're firing at some shapes above and you have to hope they don't fall on you and the worm's missiles don't fall on you?

Let me just check. No, it's different to that. Is that the one where there's a load of lemmings? Sorry, I just saw it. You know how it is when you just get the info and you immediately get it? There's just up to check it going on. Hang on. It might be on the back.

No, no, it's a different thing. Probably not, then. What is it? What it is in Crash Bandicoot is basically you are a silly man. And he wears blue jorts by John Sina. And he's a silly man who runs in. the screen in 3D on the PlayStation and does jumping. It's actually very good. He does tornado spins, breaks boxes, and collects fruits.

Now, the Womba fruits, are excellent to begin with. They make an absolutely outstanding noise when you collect them. But the real thing you're there for in Crash Bandicoot is gems and crystals, specifically, is it all about collecting crystals and gems. That's the one thing any of us are... If any of us had the opportunity to collect those in real life, that is all we would do. You would do it, yeah, yeah. You'd forsake everything.

We would pivot our whole... Seriously, like, it doesn't matter who we are. Whatever we do, whatever we're into, if we found ourselves in a situation where you can just pick up jewels and now you've got jewels, that is what you would do. It's true. I completely agree. But with Crash Bandicoot, you're... Are you familiar with the game?

Genuinely, I'm actually not. Okay. Well, first of all... Because I was going through a phase where I was annoyed at the existence of the PlayStation, because it was threatening the Dreamcast and so I was quite staunchly anti this guy I've even gotten his name Crash Bandicoot

Yeah, Christopher Bandicoot And I simply haven't had the opportunity to catch up since First of all, it's very good So I really do recommend it But what Clash Bandicoot has That makes it so wonderful to me Is it has simplicity in everything Now it doesn't mean there aren't obtuse secrets

Which is a good thing But it's very simple in what you're supposed to do and very well clued. Now, starting from Crash 2, you have to collect a big shining purple crystal in every level. They're not that hard to find. They're just kind of a formality, really.

And when you collect them, they glow and they go, Angelic, which is really great. But they are just a formality, as I mentioned. Now, what you really want is the clear gems, which are sort of platinum, see-through-looking gems that are big.

They look a bit like house cymbroles, actually. And the way you get those, is by breaking every box in a level and then getting to the end. And when you get to the end of the level, without having done that, you will see a hologram that says, like, for example, 13 slash 20, like, oh, I've missed seven boxes, you know. And sometimes those boxes, you will think, oh, yeah, I didn't go in a bonus area. They must be there.

But sometimes you'll be like, hang about, I've done this with a fine tooth comb. How have I missed 11 boxes? But then later you find out that there's another entrance to that level that you get the boxes. And it's really cool. And then when you get the gem, it also goes And the gems are the sort of completion thing But there's more than that It's even better

It's even better Because this is where the collectibles start to become Practically useful Don't really see how it could be better than that Oh, it's going to get better Hold on to your hindquarters there Bummer There are coloured gems, different coloured gems

There are only five of them, I believe But they are all different shapes Oh And they are very hard to find They are the rarest ones in the game. They are very well hidden. But as you make your way through each level, you will sometimes see little wireframey holograms

of these colorful gems, and you'll be like, oh, that's weird. I can't do anything with this. I wonder what it's for. Then later in the game, you will stumble across, for example, the blue-colored gem. And then if you go back into the level,

why I had that wireframe, that's a platform now, maybe. Oh, okay. And you will stand on that platform and it will take you to a new area that will allow you to either break all the boxes in the stage, or get another completely separate hidden, even more secret

clear gem. That sounds really good. It's a very, very good game. Those jewels are, like, unlocking your consciousness on different wavelengths. It's true. It's all very spiritual. Yeah. But the fact of the matter is you do spend 99% of the time looking at Crash Bandicoot's bare bottom. It's not bare, I don't know why I said that.

No, it's not bare bottom. I just can't stop thinking about his bare bottom. That's why. And barebottoms in general. In general, yeah. My life is a potentially dictated by arces. And you wouldn't believe the way that they speak. But let's move on. Do you of another collectible, we can talk? Shall I do another one?

Let's do, you do one, and then I'll do one, and then we'll wrap it up, I think. Okay, so what's happened is that we have, we've ended up talking about collectibles. And when I made my notes, we were mainly going to talk about jewels. So I've got another... I've changed the game. Yeah, but that's fine, because we had to go on. But I had a good jewels, and it's just not going to last very long, I don't think, because there's not much to say about it, but it is the gems in Dungeon Keeper.

Oh, now we're talking, because I've not played this. This is interesting. Oh, no. Educate me about these games. So Dungeon Keeper, I'm surprised you haven't played Dungeon Keeper. Well, the thing is, I have never been into anything strategic, really. I'm a big jumping-on-things head guy. So I'm between, which is that I'm a looking at pretty things in a video game guy.

and so there are plenty of games that I've played and fooled myself into believing I was enjoying when all I was doing was I liked the way it looked and Dunger Keeper isn't one of those that's a game I genuinely enjoy but basically the way I play strategy games is I'm not good at strategy and that's the thing that people don't like strategy games for

is they're like well you've got to have strategy and the people who like it like it because you've got to have strategy not me I like it because I get to look at the thing in the game you know and that's what it is And if it just turns out to be a kind of strategy I could do, then I'm happy. So theme park, like, I'm not playing that to try and make the most money. I'm playing that to put down, like, rides and see people go on them.

I like, I just like, I like looking, I like theme park, because you get to look at a big old chunky canned. What, a chunky can? A big hand, you know, a big chunky hand that's moving around them with a mouse and you can make roads and the little guys all follow the roads. If you like a chunky hand, Stu, then I think you should play dungeon keeper. Because dungeon keeper, it's just an... absolute joy. You are

digging out little rooms and digging out corridors to go between the little rooms and then you're saying what the rooms are. So this is going to be a room where the monsters will all train and they'll go on their training things. This will be a room where the spiders live and there'll be a load of spider nests there. That's great. Spider room. And

now and then what you do is you dig through the walls and basically it's, do you know what? I've never thought of this until this second but I'm going to go ahead and say it on record. It, I think is the inspiration for Minecraft and the extremely

satisfying act of going dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, poff. Dig, dig, dig, dig, and the blocks kind of let you through in Minecraft. That started in Dungeon Keeper where you're little, you tell them I want these bits to be dug.

And the little gremlins you own go over there and they go dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, deep, poff, dig, dig, dig, and the best ones are the ones that have got jewels in them. Well, at first you're looking for the ones with gold in them. And you can see, because there's little gold nuggets

It's coming out of the rock, and you go dig, dig, dig, dig, and out come all gold for you. But sometimes you find gems, and they're sticking out of the rock. And I don't have anything else to say about it. It just looks nice. Well, no, that does sound very good. I'm going to install... I've got Dungeon Keeper on good old games, so I'm going to install Dungeon Keeper, and I'm going to someone give it and go.

I think you should have at least a go, and then don't worry if you do what I always do when I play Dungeon keeper, which is about two levels in. I go, well, this requires a modicum of skill now. I'll stop. I mean, that sounds reasonable. That's what I do with, like, theme park and theme hospital. I'm just like, well, this is now hard. I'm out.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Not even hard. This is now some challenges. You have to play the game properly. Yeah, but until then, you'll have a really nice time. That's how I was with Company of Heroes and Dawn of War.

It's like, you do the tutorial levels and I'm like, yeah, cool, I win. And then I'm like, hang on, I'm not winning. Why am I even bothering playing this if I'm not winning? I really enjoyed Dawn of War, and I got through the whole campaign. Oh, well done. expansion campaigns and everything. I had it all. But whenever I went online, I would just start the game

and immediately my opponent would have seven zillion terminator squadrons and tank guys and he would just immediately annihilate me. And I have no idea how you're supposed to play that game. It turns out. I was just enjoying myself. My Bohrhammer 40,000

yarn of war, that's why I say. Hey, that's not bad. Thank you. I've got the handker in now. I might play have been born of war. So, no. That's good for you. I mean, I would like to do an episode about Warhammer games at some point from the perspective where I have people on who actually know about them and like them while I just direct traffic because I don't like Warhammer 40K. I do.

Yes, I know. That's very good. You should be on the episode. Yeah, but I don't know anything. It's the trouble. You don't know Shadow of the Horned Rat? I don't know Shadow of the Horned Rat. Oh my goodness.

Sorry. This is just humiliating. Anyway, I don't want this to be the longest ever episode, so let's come, let's do, let's wrap this up, because we've, there's one, there's one gem. Yeah. that I feel like not mentioning it is just stupid of us. Like, absolute, like, brain-dead level of idiocy. Okay. And it's Spiro the Dragon.

Oh, I'm too old for that. I've never played it. Well, the thing about Spirondi is... Okay. You are a small Purple Dragon named Spiro. These are PlayStation 1 games, and I personally like the first one of the best for reasons I will get into. But the gems are the whole game, basically.

You go into a world. There is a beginning-to-end aspect, but it's very almost trivial. What you need to do to get 100% to finish the game is you need to collect all the gems in the level. Now, there's usually about 300, maybe 400, but there's not 400 individual collectibles, because each different gem is worth a different number of gems, if that makes sense. It's like 1, 5, 25. Yep. And if you're really lucky, you might get like 50.

That might not be a thing. I might have made that up. Thank you for your demonstration of different numbers. Now I understand. Yes. We begin with one, moving on. The familiar two. Now, one, is that a myriad or not?

No, one is not a myriad. And I would say two is not a myriad. Not even two. I think, honestly, if I'm being really like, like, what's the word, pernickety about this. Yeah. I think once, I don't think you've got a myriad until you've hit at least six or seven. Well, yeah, I agree.

More than that. Yeah. Well, I don't know. I think seven can be a myriad. Like, if we have seven options, that's myriad option. I don't. No, I disagree. I don't think I can. Well, I think you're an idiot.

Shut up. Oh, okay. Sorry. I thought it'd be funny if we had a false argument about the dumbest thing in the world. Anyway, yes. Now, you're in these sort of the 3D worlds, and all you've got with Spiro is he can breathe fire in a little burst. He can charge, which is hold square and he runs super fast, and it makes a cool, trying noise. And it's a very basic, open sort of 3D platformer.

But the thing that makes it brilliant is the low. levels are quite small, so they have to tuck these things away in clever places to hide them, rather than just do like go a million miles over here and then there's one. Oh, that's stuff. By the way, as you describe this, I'm watching a video of the game, and I would have really liked it. He'd still like it. Yeah, I'd play it. But what you have is the ability to glide, which means that as you play through the levels and you make your way out to higher and higher advantage points, you'll be looking around and you'll be like, oh, I'm this high up now. Maybe I can get onto that rooftop over there or that crag over there. And in a memorable instant,

quite early in the game, there's an area that honestly looks like in any other game of its era, it would be the background. But it's not. You can just fly over onto this rampart that looks like you shouldn't be able to get there. And there's just more gems there. And it's brilliant, because that's the whole game. Now, what people like Spyro 2 and 3, and I think they're good games. I say they're very good games, in fact. But what they do is they, they, add in more stuff. They are like, okay, this is fun and all,

but what Spireyro needs to do is play hockey and skateboard and do all these mini games. Now, that's not to say there aren't mini games in Spyro 1, but there's only one type of minigame, and you only do it about four times, and it's not that bad, and also so optional in a way.

But the real fun is just getting thrown to these worlds, listening to this amazing music done by Stuart Copeland of the police. It's amazing. It's so good, Dave, the music. It's so good. It will blow your balls into the back of your sack, I swear. Okay. And I've seen that happen. It's not pretty. That's not far from where they are

already. Okay, well, I didn't mean that sack. I didn't mean that sack. Dave. I didn't mean that sack. Oh, you mean like my bag that I'm wearing? I meant your throat sack. You know, like, you use to rib it. The one that I, yes, I inflate to ward off enemies or attract mates.

I don't know what sack you thought I was talking about. Some vulgar nonsense, no doubt. Yeah. But what I love is that purity in Spiro of just you and the gems, and that's the only thing to worry about. You're not thinking, oh, I need a certain amount of orbs or keys or anything else like that. Like Spiro 2 even has the absolute Antichrist, which is it has bits where in the level it's like, oh, I can't swim yet.

I need to learn to swim and then come back here. And I hate that because in Spiro 1, every time you visit a level for the first time, if you're good enough, if you explore hard enough, you can fully clear it. There's no get this and then come back later. There's none of that. In a level, there might be a locked chest that requires a key, but the key will be in that same level.

Yeah. It's all very beautifully contained, almost like this is it. And that, just that, and the relentless pursuit of gems, which, by the way, make a really cool tingy noise when you collect them, it's just glorious. It's just glorious. And even better,

When you beat the game, as in when you beat the final boss, but haven't got all the gems, you gain the ability by pressing the left L3, you know, the left stick in. Another one. Your little dragonfly pal sparks will point towards the nearest gem. He'll go, V. Oh. So once you'll pass the game, if there's still some that you can't find, you can get a fairly consistent hint as to where to find them.

It won't tell you exactly where they are, but it will give you the gist of it, so you're not wasting your time. That's good. It's very good. and I think that Spiro may be I don't think this is controversial I think Spiro their dragon may be the peak of gem collecting in video games

as a franchise Wow okay Oh even better You'll love this last thing You'll love this Yeah When you leave a stage What you do is you jump onto a port

A portal and you fly into the air And it's like It is obviously loading But it's unbroken It's like disguised loading And then Spirro will be gliding through the air And a chest comes up from the bottom of the screen and at the top of the screen it says

Total Treasure Collected 240 and every single one of those gems individually flies out of your score in a big cluster and goes into the box and you bank them and you never have to collect them again and the whole time that's happening

you're just ASMR like it's just like and that's the joy of collectibles Dave that's kind of like at the end of the levels in Rayman Origins oh you talk about nice collectibles, Rayman 2,

the lums. Oh, goodness, yes. They're nice on it. When you, is it them that, right, so in Rayman 2, is it them or is it something else you collect where the sound effect for collecting them is,

who, who, who, I think that's, it's a lovely little tune. I think that's like a noise that plays when you, like,

hit a switch or reveal something. Yeah, that's right. Because that turn, this is, there's an excuse for me to be all obtuse. Okay. Rayman 3 on the Game Boy Advance, of all things.

And you know, Rayman 3 is Hoodlam Havoc. It is a very odd game. On the Game Boy Advance, it is very obvious that it was originally a Rayman 2 version because all the stuff in the game is from Rayman 2. What? I loved Rayman 2 so much. I should have played that on the Game Boy Advance. But then occasionally there will be a one of the hoodlums will be there from Rayman 3. But seriously, look up on YouTube sometime and you will go, A,

that's the most beautiful thing I've ever seen. seen in my entire life. Ooh, that's nice. And it's a really good game. Really good game. It has everything from Rayman 2 riding on the back of the rocket with legs, you know, the boss where you're throwing... It's a Rayman 2.

They should have just said it was Rayman 2 because that's what it is. Yeah. But anyway, yes, Spiro, I think, is the pinnacle of collecting gems, and I think that's why it's a really good place to scratch a big line under this episode, which I think has been quite good. But I said at the start that I had a wild card I was going to do. Oh, shit. I've got to do it.

Yeah, of course we have to do it. Hang on, let me just give me a second. I need a second. to, okay, okay, I'm ready. I'm ready. Because, like, this is why I love collecting jewels in games, this is why I'm on into this, I have a game

that's my favourite one for doing that with, but it's a little bit naughty of me. Oh, boy. I'm going to send you a picture of it. Oh, goodness, me. Are you ready? I am ready. I'm very, very excited about this year. It's this. Here it comes.

Oh, Dave. You know what? That is excavated. some primal memory of wanting this more than anything in the world. So what I've just sensed to is a picture of Waddington's board game treasures and trapdoors. This is something that

me and my wife bonded over early on. We both used to have this. The first thing you said to her when you met her was you fuck with treasures and trapdoors. It wasn't far off. It was a board game set in ancient Egypt where what you're

doing is you're going at your player piece is a card, and you're trying to put jewels in it. Stu, I'm just going to start sending you pictures of these jewels. I want to see them. I want to see... Oh, my God. Oh, oh. Oh, my goodness, is that... Oh, oh. Oh, hello. Oh, that's a bit... That was a bit graphic.

That's a bit graphic. It came with all these little plastic... There's no... It doesn't really need to be that high-res. I can even see the little indentations in them. Oh, I can't imagine running my fingers over those little indentations. the facets. They're so small. I've got the vapors. They're little round, faceted balls.

They come in blue, green, red, and yellow. And they look like little chaos emeralds, except a bit rounder than that. And they're so nice. And they're second only. No, no, they're first. They're first. But the second is in joint place, curse of the idol and the Crystal Maze board game. Because the Crystal Maze board game came with crystals and you collected them, but they were plastic.

and then the curse of the idle board game came with just one of those, but it was red. I mean, the crystal maze crystal is probably the most desirable item this side of shiny shearer, isn't it? Yes, yes, the humanity has ever created, yes. It's, yeah, we all wanted that on the telly, still want it now. I saw one in real life once. Oh, my goodness. It was in, it was at primary school, we were doing a tour of the local police station. Oh, my goodness.

And they had one in a sort of, well, they may have. have. It was basically like, you know those cutlery dividers you put in a cutlery drawer? Yes. They just had one of them out on a desk full of different pens and stuff or something. And they had a crystal maze crystal. And like, it definitely was. It was either an actual crystal maze crystal. Or it was like, because this would have been in the first or second series of the crystal maze era, it was probably like whatever it was that they bought a job lot of and just engraved, I've been. We're talking, O'Brien? Are we talking to Tudor Paul here?

We're talking O'Brien, first series, second series. I don't know. I don't know what the divisions of the series are in the crystal maze. No way, don't. Please tell me. Okay. Okay. It's that it was Richard O'Brien all the time, except one year it randomly wasn't. And we went, what? Who's this? But I now see... With the Hill with the swords of a thousand men. By looking back, I now see that Ed Tudor Pole in the crystal maze, is that a missing Doctor Who that we never had. He should have been a Doctor Who at some time.

Well, he should have. I mean... You know who should never be Doctor Who? Richard A. A. O. Addy. Yeah. awful man he said a rude thing about a book didn't he he said that a book was good when it was bad

yeah he did I made it sound like that was trivial he actually did and he shouldn't have yeah he was a bad man he's a twat anyway um on that bombshell I think that you've

successfully argued that physical games are the best for these kind of things honestly yeah can you imagine having real oh oh imagine if they did a shovel night board game and it came with loads of

little plastic jewelers. You know, I think there is a shovel night board game, actually. What? I'm gonna be a lot. Yeah. I might be wrong. It had better not

just come with pictures of jewels on little bits of cardboard. Oh yeah, there is one. There is one, yeah. Better not come with jewelry. Well, it's probably like fantasy flight games, but it's all just plastic cardboard rubbish, you know. But anyway.

It's got some good little shovel night guys, but it hasn't got loads of little plastic jewels. And that's my one. Deluxe edition, please. No value. No value to me. Yeah. But thank you very much listening.

to this, which has been, I would say, possibly the silliest episode we've ever done. Yeah. You know, it's going to be divisive, but I hope you've enjoyed it. And let's face it, it wasn't very long, was it? No, you'll be fine. Some people are going to go, that wasn't a very good one. But we like it. I think that we see did some rather good things in there, actually.

I think we did a quite good job of making it relevant. So, yeah. And I think we made people interested in some games they may not have played before. So that's Retronauts, baby. But here's the thing about collectibles. some of them are pointless Yeah Yeah, dude

We've mentioned Robocod We mentioned Zool Pointless Collectibles But we love them And this was a pointless episode So thank you very much for listening Dave Borma

Lovely Dave Demon Tomato Dave Borma Dave Borma Lovely Borma Oh you're singing I was singing Where can we find you

You can find me On various episodes Of this You can look up various episodes the retronauts that I was on. But outside of that, you can find me on a podcast called Sonic the Comic the podcast where we examine the fact that everything that anybody thinks of of Sonic the Hedgehog now

is basically a repcon. The whole series has been completely drastically changed. So we've gone back to the past to when it first started and we're not looking at the games, we're looking at the spin-off media from then. The British ongoing comic that lasted for years and years. It went on for like 200 issues. we review every single one of you tell of them tell you what happens in them and also we look at what it was like to live at that time in the past we crack open my old teenage diary and go through

that we've we're currently we've had just uh just now we've had the saga of how i met my wife as a teenager it was very interesting yeah and uh and that was lovely to re-experience um so when you walked up to her and said you fuck with treasures and trap doors trapdoors yeah that that's in there and it's just and it's look and we have good guests and it's actually right it's an actually the good podcast. It's not just some idiot with a podcast. You should listen to it. So, yeah, okay, Shade Throne. I get you, I get what you're saying. No, I don't think this is a good

podcast as well. It's just that a lot of people in the world are idiots with podcasts that aren't worth listening to. This one's good. You should go and listen to it. There's even, there's animated of it people have done. That's how good it is. Go and find them on YouTube. Yeah. With drawings of you with beard. Yeah. Yeah. It's a very

good podcast and I was on it once and I've been told that it is a very funny episode. It is. It's a really funny episode. I like to go on it again some time at some point. Maybe I will. Maybe I will. But as for me, I've been to Stuart Chip and I like to do the silly British episode sometimes. Did I say that's called Sonic the Comic the Podcast?

You may have, but that would be in tune with this episode where we just forgot the name of the game just constantly. It's called Sonic the Comment the Podcast. I'm called Demon Tomato Dave in places. Look me up. You're fine. But, yes, thank you for listening to Retronaut. If you want to support Retronauts, then for a mere $5 a month, can access every weekly episode or full week early,

which will make you the callus kid the playground. I love saying that, and I really shouldn't, but I can't stop. Because I think it's from Rohe Listerpa. I think I've basically just lifted it from... Oh, I see. Yeah. Which isn't so good. But also, you'll get access to the diamond fights brilliant this week in retro columns,

and you'll get brand new bonus episodes, I believe, two per month, completely exclusive to the Patreon, and they're good episodes. They're not just, like, thrown away things. They are genuinely good, insightful episodes along as all our episodes, you know. And I'm so bad at ending podcasts. So I guess what I'll say is in the end, Norty's listeners, the real shiny things, the real beautiful things that I want to collect.

It's you guys. Thanks very much for listening. I'm going to kidnap all of you. Throw your love around Love me, love me Take it into town Happy, happy Put it in the ground

Where the flowers grow Gold and silver shine shiny happy shiny happy people holding shiny happy people holding