Retronauts - Retronauts Episode 147: Sonic Adventure

Episode Date: April 16, 2018

Sonic the Hedgehog essentially sat out the 32-bit generation, which dealt a serious blow to Sega's financial situation. But by the time the company was ready to launch their new hardware, Sega finally delivered what a generation of gamers had been screaming about for years: a TRUE 3D Sonic game. On this week's episode of Retronauts, join Bob Mackey, Jeremy Parish, Ray Barnholt, and Caty McCarthy as the crew digs into Sonic's first 3D outing and decides if it's a stellar success or an ambitious failure.

This week on Retronauts, we talk about Sonic and his shitty friends. episode of Retronauts, Jeremy Parrish is dying in the background. I'm your host for this one, Bob Mackey. It happens when Sonic comes up. That's true. I'm your host, Bob Mackey, and today's episode is all about Sonic Adventure, the first Sonic Adventure game. Before I continue, who else is here with me

as I've already pointed out, right across the table? It's Jeremy Parrish. Hey, everyone, say your Sonic Fersona name. I'm Jeremy the Tarmigant. Oh, wow. I'll get back to me on that. Who's right next to me over here? Hi, I'm Ray Bartolt, and I have an official Sonic Fisona, who is, of course,

Ray the Flying Squirrel. Oh, my God. Yeah, you're in-game. Oh, wow. How do you feel, Ray? Finally. I feel probably about as good as people named Amy, too.

Oh, wow. They're not feeling so good about themselves these days. And a first-time guest, who is over here across the table for me? I'm Katie McCarthy, and I guess my Sonic for Sonny be Katie the cat

because I spell one name C-A-T-Y, so it'd just be easy and short. That is easy. It's like a superhero name almost. Yeah, exactly. I'd be Bob the Bobcat then. No one draw any of these. What could possibly go wrong?

There you go. I don't want to be associated with this. We're going to put you in Bobsy from now on. Bobsy. Ugh. I don't want any of this. Katie, where do you come from? I mean, I think you should be familiar to some of our listeners.

Yeah, I work at USgamer. Dot net. I'm part of the new generation, I guess. The next generation. Yeah, exactly. Once they killed us off. Cleared the decks. I just, like, moved in.

Like, yeah. So, yeah, and I used to freelance a lot. She's living in my hermit crab shell. I've been around, I guess. I used to work at KillScreen. ages ago, but I don't talk about that. But yeah, like, I'm U.S. Gamer right now. I've been there for over a year now.

It's kind of crazy. Like, we'll buy really fast. So, yeah. Interesting. So, yes, welcome to the show, Katie. And I did want to do a Sonic adventure episode because whenever I do a Sonic episode, people react very well. They love it, and they love what I have to say about Sonic. So that's why I keep doing this because I love to be mad

about things online. But... So that was such a straight face. I know, I know. I don't know if I mean it or not. But really, I want to do this episode because I feel like this game means a lot to people who are slightly younger than me. When I played this game, I was like 18, and I didn't really like it, and I still don't like it very much,

but I like to hear a perspective of someone who was younger and someone probably with more affinity than Sonic. This is all stuff I'm projecting onto you, Katie, down, by the way. I'm just going to assume that you are these things that I need for the show. Basically, this show and our business are resting on your shoulders. Yes, we need, so I'm like an elder millennial. You're a true millennial, so we need a true millennial's perspective on Sonic the Hedgehog. But as I was saying, this game means a lot to people, a certain group of people.

And I feel like it is a big deal because it is Sonic's first time in true 3D in a true 3D game. And that is something people have been waiting for for a long time. And I think it was a huge deal for the Dreamcast because next to Soul Calibur, I feel like it was one of the biggest launch games next to, I don't know, garbage like zombie nightmare and whatever the hell else was on the Dreamcast for launch. What else was there? Soul Calibur, Crazy Taxi. Crazy Taxi. Ready to Rumble. Was it not?

It wasn't launched day. It all blurs together by mind. Blue. Ready to Rumble was in there. Blue Stinger. Trick style. It was like, there were like 20 games. It was a pretty big launch.

And two okay ones. But not so much in Japan where Sonic had to come after the launch in that country. Yeah, the launch there was June. Yeah. No, July. Oh, July. Sorry. Wrong month.

The system launched in June. Yes. With July. Unless in November. What? Why am I getting June in here? I don't know. Oh, that's a women's, like, manga magazine over there.

It was July and Godzilla Generations. Which was by Quintet, wasn't it? Wasn't that, like, their last game? A fitting end. It's a bad game. It's a bad game. So, I want to get into the history of the development of this game because it is not quite as tortured as Sonic Extreme. So if you go back to our canceled game episode, I believe that's like 105, episode 105.

We tell the long and sort of tale of Sonic Extreme, like, the eight different versions of that game that were made. but once Sega figured out Sonic Adventure it was like less than a year and it was made it was just like bam I think they learned a lot from Sonic Extreme like don't don't mess around that much let's figure something out and then make it because Sega at this point needed a hit

they needed the Dreamcast to succeed and they needed a Sonic game in 3D that everyone was waiting for for like years they waited the whole Saturn generation for the Sonic version of Mario 64 yeah well now they were finally going to do it yeah Sonic was or Saturn was really weird because Sega just like a

abandoned almost all of its non-3D franchises on that system. It was like, why, what about your legacy guys? I think it was really U.G. Naka, Sonics, one of Sonic's creators, getting a lot of power and saying, I don't want to do Sonic anymore. Knights is my new thing. And Knights is the coolest thing ever, which is why you see a lot of night stuff in Sonic Adventure. But it's interesting because I was just at the GDC panel, GDC, 2018. Oh, that's right. There's a big Sonic thing.

Sonic the Hedgehog where two of the designers who were not Eugene Naka. the original Sonic the Hedgehog were speaking, and the entire idea behind Sonic was to create a clean break from the past, like the crappy mascots like Alex Kidd and that was pretty much it for Sega in the 8-bit era. And they were like, we need a mascot that can be competitive with Mario and was going to like carry the company forward and did great during the 16-bit era. But then on the 32-bit generation system, they were just like, Sonic, what do we do? It was, I don't know, like that has always seemed like such a huge.

missed opportunity and how much better could Saturn have done with a few really strong Sonic games? Even one really strong Sonic game. They tried. Dear God, did they try to make a Sonic game for the Saturn? They did. And they almost did. They almost made Sonic Adventure for the Saturn.

Yeah. Oh yeah. It's true. So let me get started with how this all came into being. So the director of this game, the adventure director, Takashi Isuka, he is going to be the main guy behind all the 3D Sonic games from here on out. But he was just a, not just a, but he was the lead designer of things like Knights. designer of things like Knights. I think he started on Sonic 3. And his pitch to Eugenaka

was, uh, we should make a Sonic RPG that would focus on story, uh, which is something they had never done before. And I think most of this original pitch you can still see in the game in like the bad hub areas where it's like talk to people and solve these very basic puzzles. So I feel like at least in that sense. And this is the first very story heavy Sonic game where the story is not told through pantomime. It's told through dialogue and cutscenes and things like that. It is very much of its time. So development started in April 1997 as a Sega Saturn game

using the Knights into Dreams engine it then moved to the Dreamcast as the hardware was being developed and even influenced some of the hardware. So it was being developed alongside of the Dreamcast. I believe they got more RAM in the Dreamcast because Sonic Adventure needed more RAM. Do you know how

the development of Sonic Adventure in those kind of formative days for the system, how they related to the split concept that they came up with for like the competitive concept, the Katana versus the Dural. That I could not find in my research. The one that Sega went with was the Durall, right? I, oh.

It was the one that was internally developed in Japan versus in America. So I'm assuming that they just targeted that Japanese hardware spec. Yeah. That makes the most sense. Yeah, I just know the whatever version of the Dreamcast that eventually would become the Dreamcast started development in July of 1997. And actually, Sonic Adventure started development after that. So, according to Yujunaka, whatever they worked on for that Saturn game was the Sonic Jam bonus 3D stage. So, like, the one extra thing in Sonic Jam was, here's one Sonic 3D stage.

Here's what a Sonic 3D game could be. I've never played this. I don't know if it's any good. Ray, Katie, I don't have anyone played this? It's fine. It's just a very tiny sort of. It's like a museum. Like NAMCO Museum sort of.

Okay. It's just a very tiny area. We can go to things. There's also, they also made the special stages for the Saturn. version of 3D Blast, which used to say models and stuff. Okay, I totally missed that because I forgot those games are slightly different from each other in some ways. Yeah, 3D Blast was developed by Travelers Tales, but then Sonic Team made the special

stages, which are basically remakes of Sonic Twos. And I should mention Isika also helped with Sonic R. So I feel like they're like, well, you've made a kind of Sonic 3D game, so maybe you can figure this out for us? Yeah, exactly. So a big question, and what I think, I'm not trying to be insulting, but I think they're still trying to figure out is how do you make a Sonic game? in 3D. This is why Sonic Extreme never came into Bink because they couldn't figure it out,

especially with that technology. And another issue for them was how do you emphasize Sonic speed? And an interview with the director I was watching, they were like, we put the camera behind Sonic and it didn't make him seem fast enough. So, and this is a big problem with the game, is that it uses dynamic camera angles to sort of emphasize the speed, which it looks cool, but it makes things kind of rough to play. Now that we've escaped this era of dynamic camera and pre-established camera angles. Yeah, I mean, this is something that the Sonic games still struggle with. It's the balance between giving players that sense of exhilarating speed they had

and the classic 2D Sonic games versus allowing them any sense of actual control. Because Sonic really, you know, when he goes fast, you kind of want to constrain your controls so you don't go flying off the side of the stage or something. And that works on a 2D game because it's, you know, there's two dimensions to work with. but you had that third dimension in there. So with something like Sonic Forces, there's just entire points of the game where you're like,

I'm not really doing anything here. It's just kind of going. I forgot, you reviewed that game. I did. That's still a problem in Sonic. I mean, it's like been, God, 20 years, and that's still an issue. That feeling that you're not really doing anything

during the coolest parts. Katie, did you play the Sonic 2D games before the 3D ones? A little bit, but I was very young. I went back to them like when I was older. but yeah I feel like there's always been this weird because I feel like Saltney games are just elaborate set piece games you know like just kind of like hold right

and you hope you don't bump into something to like break up your momentum and I feel like the 3D games try to do that but not very well like it's hard to kind of maintain that same like flow yeah I mean there's a there's a certain sense of timing that you need when you're going super fast and like Sonic 2 because there'll be pits

or there'll be enemies so you kind of have to have an instinct or just memorize where you need to jump and it doesn't feel super limiting because it's just like these quick little bursts and then you know you kind of have this momentum going for you but you have to use like your play skills whereas in sonic 3D and you start to see that beginning with sonic adventure when you're you're going at super high speeds you're basically going down a tunnel it's like almost like the the bonus stages from sonic two turned into like the part of the actual game and so like in sonic forces you kind of sometimes

we'll switch tracks or something, but there's not really that much to do. And things come at you so quickly that, you know, when you have to dodge an enemy or something, it's almost like, again, you have to memorize it, which I don't know, it just feels worse when you have to do that in a 3D game. When it really comes down to just like, well, you just have to move right or left or jump at these certain points. I feel like it was more like enemy fighting too, which is just like not, never is never any Sonic game. Yeah, Sonic was not meant to be a fight. except Sonic the Fighters. We'll get there.

We are really winning over the Sonic fans so far this episode. I never really looked into the development of this game. But so it was basically all hands on deck to get this game out before Christmas of 1998 in Japan. And they expanded the development team from 20 to 60 people. And this game was produced in 10 months. 10 months. And this is a team who had never made a Sonic game in 3D before and had never made a 3D game of this ambition before. A real game, yeah. A real, like, true, I mean, there have been things like, I don't know,

burning Rangers or whatever, and that, which was, that's a 3D game, correct? But it's not, it's not like on this level of 3D. No, no, no, no. No, it's a totally different kind of game. Yeah. Yeah. And, I mean, Knights is, I mean, there are 3D parts and they're awful. The 2D parts are what makes Knights great. What makes Knights great. I mean, I don't think anyone has any fondness for the parts where you're like a helpless child running around on the ground in that, and that game. Those are always my favorite parts of video games. So it worked. I mean, they got it out before Christmas of 98.

And so development of the Dreamcast started in July of 1997. So this means Sonic Adventure likely started development in like January or February of 1998. Maybe even December, depending on when it went gold or whatever. Oh, yeah, yeah, for sure. Which is, again, that's astounding that they were able to do this and still make a game that impressed people and got good reviews. I mean, you think about another game that was also being made around the same time on Saturn called Shenmu. Oh, yeah. which took a lot more time, a lot more money,

and does have a certain level of polish above Sonic Adventure. And it's just like, well, there's your two sort of, there's your alpha and omega, I think. Yeah, I mean, obviously, not Eugene Nakka, but you Suzuki probably had a lot more power and sway than Sonic team did to take their time so much with that game. But, yeah, like, one of the bigger things about this game, I'm just going over some of the changes that they made.

They definitely were going for a more Western look for the characters, and they wanted a characters that looked better in 3D. So Sonic and his friends, some of them shitty, have been made to look sort of like graffiti designs. They're like very like urban, yeah, like Sonic shoes are bigger. Like that famous, like the famous image from Sonic Venture is like Sonic like in a ball like posing, like really in a really cool like hip hop way. Yeah, I mean the poses that they came up with for Sonic are much more dynamic.

Like that is what really kind of stands out from this period of design. If you look at the original Sonic where he's like this little chubby ball who's sticking his finger up, this is like a totally different style of Sonic. It really says like I am, you know, catching up with the 90s extreme that I helped launch. It was really the real like skater era too, which is why like I think it would be Sonic Venture 2 where he officially wore vans, the official shoes of Sonic. Soap shoes, damn it. Which are, you know, shoes isn't at the skateboard basically. That's right. To grind off.

But yeah, like all of it all of the characters. were redesigned. I feel like they were moving this direction from, like, from Sonic 3, I feel like they were getting a little edgier looking. They weren't as chubby. They weren't as, um, like, anime-ish as they, as they used to be in Sonic 3. Am I, am I wrong about that?

You're slightly wrong. Ooh, only slightly. Well, Sonic Adventure was the real turn. Right, right. Character design shift. I think the, for the 2D games, he had mostly stayed the same unless you think of like knuckles as like the injection of...

Maybe, maybe, yeah. I mean, he had that cool hip-hop rhythm that showed up with him all the time. I just think it was, it's so weird for them to not only change the character designs in such a way, but to just try and push Sonic as actually being cool just does

not make much sense to me. The original design concept behind Sonic, I found out of the panel, was that he is a blue fireball. If you look at the silhouette of his head, he's like a fireball, but he's blue because that's the color of the Sega logo. Okay, that makes sense. But with the

With the Sonic Adventure redesign, I feel like they try to convey the sense of speed not only through sort of like the poses they put him in, but also through the, by making him lankier, like his limbs suddenly became very elongated and very thin. And so the idea is like he's a runner, basically. And his feet are like grotesquely huge now. It's like me, but he doesn't have the giant pot belly either. He's much more streamlined. It's true. He got in shape for this game. So it's like instead of conveying a sense of speed through his spines,

trailing behind him. It's more like he looks like a runner. So it's just like his overall physicality. So Sega did spend a bit of money on this game. In fact, they flew members of the team out to Central and South America for research. And some of their photos are actually textures in the game. And I feel like these days, they just be like, use Google Limit's church. We're not paying for this. Like get out there. Like the internet at that time, they could not get good enough reference photos probably to make a game around. Just go to the Unity asset store. Yeah. I don't know. Like the Final Fantasy 15 team. Not that that's necessarily the

golden standard for production development cycles. They spent 10 years, but take a few vacations. They did, you know, they did do a lot of travel to look at cities and create convincing worlds. Then again, that may be a cautionary tale. So, yeah. So it's going to make the grain of salt. I mean, I like

finalized 15. Did it ever make its money back? I wonder. I mean, they're doing that DLC plan forever. Yeah. It's a service for like three years. How much of that is just considered sunk costs? Yeah, it's true. There was so much development work done with the game that became like tech used in other

systems, I don't know. Yeah, it's kind of hard to say when something is as interlocked as that is. And I guess, you know, you look at Shunmoo maybe the same way. I guess that's true. That is true. So a few other things that came out of an interview I watched with the director, the character Gamma,

that is the robot in this game. It was created because fans wanted a shooting element in Sonic. I don't know who these fans think they are, but what the hell's wrong with them? Katie? Give him a gun. Yeah, they were like, well, Sonic would not carry a gun. Little do they know Shadow the Hedgehog would be around in about seven years to shoot up some cops and stuff like that in his games. He does. He shoots cops.

It's like a real GTA. I mean, everything was being infected by GTA at that time. He's a true rebel. Exactly. Look at Jack and Daxter, too. It's weird. It was a weird time to be alive. Yes, so that is why, I mean, these shooting stages aren't great, but you do have shooting stages with a robot character with a gun and you're shooting up robots.

When you say it like that, it sounds like that. so bad. I mean, it is, these aren't good ideas. And then one of the other things. How would you can, like, how do you think they stack up to the gummy ships in Kingdom Hearts? Oh, God. In what way? In what way? Like, in terms of

being an intolerable addition to a platform or like another genre sandbox. God, I feel like not intolerable. Yeah, better, better. So better than the gummy ships. Yeah, it's like, well, we'll get to this, but like the gamma levels for the most part, it's like you were just walking

through Sonics levels, holding in the B button, and then releasing it every couple seconds. It's not super, super interesting. And the boss fights aren't very good either. I'll say this for Sonic forces. They made better use of gamma in that game. Oh, they brought them back? They did. Oh, wow.

Okay, so last thing I have is, so a lot of these things were like, what can we do with the Dreamcast? What can we impress people with? A lot of this game is like photorealism, quote unquote, 41998. That's kind of unfortunate in some cases. One of the things was like, oh, chaos is the main villain of this, of this. this game, and it's sort of like a creature out of James Cameron's The Abyss. It's a transparent water creature that takes different forms, and that was just made to show

off. It's like, oh, look, the Dreamcast can do these cool things with polygons that, you know, you couldn't see on the PlayStation or could not see convincingly on the PlayStation, and that was their choice there, which is why Chaos has a bunch of different forms you see throughout the game and throughout the different character stories. And I want to go a bit into Takashi Isuka. He is the director, as I said before, and he started as a designer on Sonic 3. again, then he assisted Traveler's Tales with Sonic R, which I think gave him his Sonic 3D cred.

And then he directed Sonic Adventure after becoming lead game designer on Knights Into Dreams. But now he is the de facto director, or he was the de facto director of most Sonic team stuff, until 2007's Knights Journey Into Dreams. And I think that was a high note to go out on. Well, he's the face of them still. Yeah. And I feel like that could have been a passion project for him because it's just like he, like, I feel like a lot of people on this team thought Knights would be it, would be like the thing that would help the staff. And I feel like with the Wii and the huge install base, like, we can finally make the night sequel we wanted. I've never played this.

Has anyone in the room played the... Yes. Okay. Don't do it. Don't do it. Okay. What exactly is wrong with it? Oh, too much to talk about.

Let's talk about Sonic Adventure. Okay. At least that I can quantify. We can look forward to our Night's Journey to Dreams episode at some point in the future. So he became the leader of the Sonic team in 2010. That was after Eugene Nakah left. I don't know who was doing it before. him. But now he is not left. He is the major producer on every Sonic game. He's sort of the face

of Sonic 3D games. That's what I just said. Yes. Oh, you're right. Sorry. I don't know. Like, I am not part of the Sonic fan base. I don't know if they see him as like a Miyamoto style figure or like a, you know, like, or like, or maybe you can let me know, like, is there like, oh, this guy needs to leave or we need some fresh blood or whatever. I don't know what the feeling about this guy is because I don't see his name that. often. I think it's a mix. I think it's a combination.

Some people really like the direction of Sonic games and there are Sonic fans who are like, why can't they just make good games again? Yeah. And I feel like, to this guy's credit, they do try to correct themselves and sometimes they overcorrect themselves. They are very like, try something completely different every time and see if this is what people want. I wouldn't singularly blame him for everything.

Right, right. No, absolutely not. But I guess, there's a whole company at work. He might be approving a lot of stuff, but I feel like they try. And I do like some Sonic 3D games, but I feel like for a long time, for maybe 10 years, it was just, it was pretty rough, pretty rough going. And it all started here. Yes, it all started. I do mean that in somewhat of a positive way, though, because like, I do have, well, I mean, okay, obviously I'm on this show because, you know, I was defending the 2D Sonic games before.

And I will continue to do that. You're here to protect Sonic from me. And I will defend Sonic Adventure 1 to some degree. And after that, it gets dicey. But I think, you know, we already mentioned it was a key Dreamcast game. And for that, yeah, I agree with that. And it does have a sentimental value to me in that way. And just think how many of those little watch batteries that sold through the chaos?

Oh, God. Yeah. Are the Chaos or Chows or Chows? Chows, yeah. I mean, after my battery ran out once, I'm like, there's no way I'm feeding this thing another battery. That was two weeks. Thank you. Before I continue, though, I want to ask everybody what their experience is with this game.

And I think I'll talk to Katie first. Katie, where did you encounter this game? Were you hyped for it? What did you think of it? Like, let me know. So I was a huge Sonic fan when I was like a kid. Like, I had this, like, stuffed animal Sonic that I still have. I was going to bring it, and I couldn't find it because I thought it was funny.

But it's, like, this old, like, raggedy sonic. And I also have one where he squeeze his stomach and he says Sega. And so it doesn't make any sense. Oh, does it still work? Yeah. Oh, my God. I don't know. Like, it's somewhere in my closet.

Yeah, it's like the Sega scream. Yeah. It's kind of, like, scary. But, yeah, I don't know. I guess I was hype for it. But not, like, I wasn't, like, dying. Like, I got to get a day one. Like, I don't.

because I didn't get a dream cast right away, like it took a bit. But I remember liking two way more because I felt like two was more focused. Like one, there's just so many playable characters and there's just like so much going on. It was kind of overwhelming for me. Whereas like two, I was just chilling out in the child garden most of the time. But I don't know. It's a weird game. I feel like it's the start of Sonic just going like totally batch it story-wise, which I really appreciate.

Like even at the worst Sonic games, they do really weird stuff like story-wise, which I I think is kind of interesting, more than, like, Mario is just the same thing and never really experiments with a story. Yeah, that is true. This is, again, they're focusing on story, but I feel like they're, like, rebooting the canon and the lore and all that stuff. We'll talk more about that later. But, yeah, this is a, they will become very story-focused games for better or for worse.

Ray, how about you? Yeah, well, let's see. I was there day one, more like month five, because, like, the first thing I imported was a Japanese Dreamcast, Sonic and Sega Rally. And so I was the cool kid at school for a few weeks. a few days. But then, yeah, just sort of, yeah, I was hyped for it. I did want to play Sonic because it was kind of like, you know, like I said,

key game kind of that Mario 64 level. Then kept doing that and then got an American Dreamcast with the U.S. version of Sonic Adventure because I had heard they had improved some things, ish, but nonetheless, yeah, I still have it today and had a lot of fun back then. Jeremy, you are a big Dreamcast fan, much more than me. Up front, I don't really like the Dreamcast. So, Dreamcast, I was not going to buy a Dreamcast day one, but then I was at like a Compuess A on launch day and was like, eh, why not? So I bought it.

But Final Fantasy 8 came out the same day. You're right. That was the biggest day in entertainment history. It was. I had already played a lot of the import of Final Fantasy 8 and did a lot of learning of Japanese, written Japanese. Japanese in the process. But I was really looking forward to playing it in English. So I got home and I tried out Sonic Adventure and the Dreamcast and played like one level and kind of bounced off it.

I was like, maybe this isn't what I want to do right now. So then I played Final Fantasy 8 all the way through. And once I finished it, then I went back to my Dreamcast. But by that point, Crazy Taxi was out. So the game I really played on Dreamcast was Crazy Taxi. And I just never got around at doing much with Sonic Adventure. It never really, like, nothing about it hooked me. none of the characters appealed to me

none of the game modes appealed to me I thought maybe the you know the cat that goes fishing like that seems interesting but it just didn't do anything for me like this game for whatever reason nothing about it connected with me and I certainly gave it a fair shot I did tell like I didn't okay so

I'm not okay everyone don't unsubscribe everybody it's going to be fine it's going to be fine don't leave a review or leave a positive one maybe I already said you don't like the dream cast I'm not a big fan of the dreamcast I got one I think when it was announced that they stopping production, I was like, now it's time for Bob to swoop in and

see what I missed. And I got a ton of games for cheap because it was the Dreamcast, everything was just on sale. We all did. Yes. And I remember, and this is very important to point out that, like, this was like a really flashy looking game when they were putting it in demo kiosk, like, did you see how good this game looks?

By 2000, it didn't look that good. And I was not a big Sonic fan, so I was expecting a Sonic game at least, but it really isn't that for most of it. So I think I at least finished it once, but I never went back to it. But I remember when Sonic Adventure 2 came out, I have two great friends still to this day who were big Sonic fans. To this day, we didn't see, I can make friends with the other side.

But they, I remember I was working at a game stop and they came in and I was like, oh, Sonic Adventure 2 is out. Isn't it great? Aren't you guys loving? They're like, no, it's not good. So I was like, if they think a Sonic game isn't good, then something's wrong. Yeah. And from then, I sort of wrote off the series until I think Sonic Generations, which I reviewed for one up. But, yeah, the first, like, decade of Sonic 3D games, I, after Sonic Adventure 1, and I did play Sonic Adventure 2, I was sort of like, I don't like this.

I don't know what's happening. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm almost the same trajectory, really, because, like, I was excited for two after playing demos and stuff and seeing it. But then it was just like, no, I mean, yeah, they smooth some things out. but then ruined a whole lot of others. Yeah, a lot of the good stuff is really front-loaded in these games, too.

Just Sonic Heroes, which is even worse. Oh, boy. God, they promise so much. Yeah. But anyway, the first game. So let's get into it. The first game, Sonic Adventure, a big disparity in the release dates because this is tied to a hardware launch. Well, not really.

So the Dreamcast launched in November of 98 in Japan, right? Okay. So the release date in Japan for Sonic Adventure was December 23rd, 1998, and the release date And America was nine, nine, 99. Again, were you there? Ask your parents. It was the biggest entertainment history. God damn it.

But again, yeah, so, like, this is a huge gap, like 10 months almost. Yeah, and 10 months to make it and then 10 months to smooth it out for America. Yeah. And I believe they fixed a lot in the game between those two releases. Yeah, some of it's kind of under the hood and things, like, you wouldn't really, that wouldn't seem too obvious. Because I think some of the biggest issues with it are level design, design choices. They're more fundamental than things you can tweak. But looking at, we'll get to Sonic Adventure DX,

but looking at the amount of things they changed. It's clear that, like, they were not done with this game when they shipped it. Right. They were not, they were far from done with the game. Interestingly enough, there are a lot of 3D games, so a lot of series moved into 3D without this happening to them. But Sonic Adventure was released in, was developed in the shadow of Mario 64. So they at least had a pattern.

Like, this is what people like in a 3D game. I think a lot of a lot of 3D games like we've the previously mentioned Bubsy 3D they did not have that pattern going for them they were sort of making it up like is this what a 3D game is like I guess this and they were wrong but this game

so for good it was like yes Mario 64 exists and we have a thing to follow we know people want for bad Mario 64 exist and how the fuck do we beat this game like how do we make a better game than Mario 64 because yeah sorry right

with the character that is focused on speed. Yeah. And I feel like, you know, you know what also came out then right before it was F0X. And I feel like, you know, if you were going to make a 3D Sonic game, let's look also at F0 in addition to Mario. But even the, it's so weird. Like the Sonic racing game was slow and weird.

Yeah. And yeah, I don't get it. Here's another thing, and I was going to mention this before, but now that we're into the game, I'll talk about it, which is that, you know, I, I, I, I'm, I, I'm, me now from the perspective of someone who has worked with physics and a game engine now. It's like you can't even have a 3D Sonic game go too fast because he will, in fact, go through the environment.

Oh, it still happens. Yeah, the computer cannot keep up with things going so fast. That's why you see like speed runs for all sorts of games where it's like, just build up all this speed and then go right through the entire world. You know, that's why also in Sonic Adventure, you see a lot of times where Sonic is appearing to go the fastest is on straightaways. and when the camera's behind him and going on slopes and stuff, it seems a little bit slower.

And it's also why I think they take away the camera back when he goes through the loop-to-loops. It's just all these sort of concessions to deal with the fact that he can't go too fast or else the game will just not work. That's true. The engine, especially in an early engine like this on first-generation hardware. And they can only make the level so big too, right? Yeah, and that's why, again, I think, you know, look at F0X, X,

which has these giant tracks very wide and very smooth. And I think that's sort of how Nintendo dealt with the fact that, you know, we have to deal with these 3D collisions in a certain way. Well, you make a good point, right? Because a lot of this game was just like, we don't have the time to build a bunch of levels for a thing to go fast through. Like, we have 10 months. So there's solution.

That as well. Yes. And some of this does have bits of Mario 64 in it. Oh, for sure. But, I mean, their solution to this is, like, we will add a bunch of different play styles, a bunch of different characters with a bunch of different play styles who will go through the same levels as Sonic.

And I guess that was easier. It was easier to implement new mechanics and characters than to build more stages. Actually, you know, despite the fact that people don't like Sonic's friends that much, I think they made a smart choice with that because when you do have a game that is just like Sonic levels in 3D, it feels really insubstantial. Again, go to Sonic Forces.

That game takes like four hours to complete. Yeah. It was like the easiest review I've ever done. aside from the fact that it was like a really frustrating game. And, you know, it's all like fast levels. And there's only so much you can do to draw out that experience. There's dozens of levels in the game, but they're all over in like three to five minutes. So, you know, you really get to the question of like, how do you extend playtime and give people replay incentive?

Sonic Forces approach is to grade you and give you unlockable so you can customize your character, which isn't, is it a bad solution? but the solution here, I think, was before the idea of really, like, unlockables and custom characters. You were obviously playing a Sonic, so they, you know, extended that. And I think they sort of reasonably looked back into Sonic's past and looked at games like Knuckles Chaotics and Sonic 3 with Knuckles, or Sonic 3 and Knuckles, sorry, and said, well, we've had other characters in here in the past, and they've played differently than Sonic. So I think it's reasonable to, you know, say, how does that translate into a 3D world? Right. So I'm willing to defend them on this, even though I don't think it necessarily turned out that well. I think it was a smart decision at least. Decision wise, yes. But I feel like they went too far with some of these ideas where people thought they were signing up for a Sonic game when they were buying this.

It was like, well, I'll just play a Sonic level with Knuckles. But it's like no Knuckles. He has these arenas where you go on a scavenger hunt in. And, I mean, Tails is basically he just goes through the sonic levels as a race, which is the closest you'll get to playing more of Sonic. So, yeah, again, the problem is that Sonic moves extremely fast, and, of course, that's what he's known for, but it's hard to build four to five minute-long levels that will, you know, allow that to happen. That is a lot of assets. In fact, Sonic Team developers from, like, I think the Werewolf game, Sonic Unleashed, they're like, people have been like, why don't you just make Sonic levels? What's with these slower parts?

And they say, we literally can't make a full game out of Sonic levels. It takes too many assets because of he goes very fast. when you have to build things for them to go fast through. It's like it's very resource-intensive, this Sonic-style gameplay. Yeah. Again, F-0, he's super long tracks. Yeah.

And, I mean, it was easier to do that in old Sonic games because you just had tile sets you were building things out of, not like crafting polygons and applying textures and having to worry about skyboxes and all that stuff. Yep. Sonic 1 was built of, hey, it's very complicated. Sonic 1 was built with a palette for each stage of 64 different tiles arranged in different configurations.

Yeah. Yeah, so, I mean, at one point, I understand them. Another point, I'm like, why don't just make a very abstract Sonic game with, like, flat-shaded things and, I don't know, like, uh... Yeah. I mean, yeah. Something like that. Oh, yeah, okay. I feel like they really want, they really want Sonic to be photorealistic.

Even from, like, from this point on, they're like, it must be the most realistic world ever for Sonic to exist. And that's just, like, a focus they have with these games, which I don't, frankly, I don't really understand. Yeah, I don't get it either. Because I don't feel like he does, it looks like a Looney Tunes movie. It's like the cartoon characters alongside like space jam, yeah, it's like, it looks just bad. I've never understood like that our direction. It is, especially in this game, it is very weird to see him existing around humans. I feel like that just felt wrong to me.

But then Mario did it. Yes, exactly. But I. Mario looked bad too. You heard it here first. And in a way, like those seem like they're almost like not supposed to be normal humans. Like they're weird alternate reality humans. and some bizarre kingdom.

I don't know. They're cybor. Yeah. They're robots. But, yeah, I mean, I think it's weird that Sonic Adventure haunts us to this day. I remember the Mario Odyssey reveal was New Dog City. And we were all just like, you made Sonic Adventure on Nintendo? What the hell is going on here?

You even made a vocal theme. Yeah. Oh, God. Yeah. I mean, I guess that they pulled it off. Yeah. But that's the reputation of Sonic, like, sort of like infecting other things, at least Sonic Adventure 1, where people were like, we don't want this.

Like, we don't want this. what you did here in this future game. We thought we all moved on from this. Again, 10-month development cycle, they had to add a lot to pat out the game to make, I don't know, like, what, a 15-hour, 20-hour experience along that line.

But yeah, so along with the slower characters, with different goals besides going fast, there are hub sections you go to. There are very rain-dead puzzles you have to solve. It's like you have to carry these idols to little switches, but it's all very, very, very basic. It is, it's Princess Beaches Castle. It really is. It really is.

It is super simple. And when I play this game again, I just hit the little hint box. Like, tell me exactly what to do. I just want to play another stage. Like, I don't want, I don't care. None of the NPCs have anything interesting to say. I feel like they could have done more. Sorry, Ray.

No, no, I agree. There are like weird subplots where it's like, this guy brings a different girl to the amusement park every night. And I don't know how that gets resolved, but I was not super on board with all that. stuff. But yeah, again, it was harder for them to make more levels, and

this was their solution, and I feel like this would go on for a while. I don't know the first game that just focused on Sonic due to popular demand. Was it, I don't know if you know, Katie, was it like Sonic Colors maybe? Or, I mean, I feel like eventually they're like, fine, we'll make just a Sonic game.

Sonic 20-06. No. 06 is like the that's like when they go full on with the human stuff. Right. Yeah. Too much.

I thought you meant in terms of characters. Oh, in terms of characters, yeah. I guess Sonic 06 was their attempt to be like, okay, here, here, just Sonic. It's not very good. Yeah. They couldn't even escape it in like the portable games either. Yeah. Yeah.

It's true. It's true. And, you know, like I feel like 06 is maybe Sonic Adventure for a new generation where it's just like. It is. It's Sonic Adventure 3 for sure. And I think people were like, I want a real Sonic Adventure 3. It's like, well, you got it. It was in 2006.

But it wasn't until, like... Runs the same. Was it really Sonic colors and then Sonic Generations that were like, here are just like... Unleashed. The things you want. Unleashed. I mean, mine is Warehog. Don't forget the magic sword or whatever the hell that was.

Okay. I never played that. The Bileware one? No, no, that was dark chronicle. Yeah, the Wii. I'm talking about the Wii one, Sonic. What, Sonic and the Secret Rings and Sonic and the Black Knight? Yes.

Wow, those escape me. Yeah, those are like, what even happened with those? they just kind of... I have no idea. They exist. I mean, they were Sonic games on Wii, so they probably sold crazy well. Yeah. I don't know anything about old games.

I can't answer your question. Before a break, let's go into the characters in this game. Of course, we have our old buddy Sonic the Hedgehog. His levels are the of the GoFast variety. And they're typically built around a lot of showy for the time set pieces. And that is kind of an issue for this game where they want to show you something very impressive, but also they don't want to give you control because then you would screw up their oppressive thing

they're showing you. And I feel like that is an issue that's persisted with a lot of expensive AAA games. Like, we will not let you move, sir. You watch this. You just march forward. A lot of, like, that's why I don't like naughty dog games very much. It's like they want to slap your hand away

at every opportunity. Like, you watch the movie we made. You don't play anything. Oh, boy. People are going to be mad at me at this episode. Look at this bloom lighting. But the thing is, it's going to be lots of different people angry at you. Yeah.

Oh, that counts or something. Ooh, who else going to get mad at me? Well, you know, Tails, fuck you. No. There's a whole fandom about that. That's true. Oh, whoa, whoa. We'll get to that at the end.

Tails has an odd story in this game. He's got sort of like a single white female thing going on with Sonic. Like, I must become Sonic. I must outdo Sonic. And he races Sonic in every level. You basically just go through Sonic's levels. Sonic's levels again. But this time you are racing Sonic.

And because Tails can fly, you have shortcuts you can use. you can use, which it feels like maybe like some sort of Sonic R leaking into Sonic Adventure. I don't know if you guys would agree with me here. I'm not close enough. Yeah. I see what you mean. It's more like Tales Triple Trouble in 3D. Oh, triple trouble.

What does that refer to? Your Tales Adventure? Wasn't there? No, there was... Triple Trouble was a Sonic game. Oh, okay. Then Tales Adventure and Tales. I get all the game gear games conflated.

Tales Adventure and Tales Sky Patrol. Okay, I apologize. I've made a stupid joke and it was wrong. I'm trying to help. Was it, we got to talk about this more. Was it Sonic Triple Trouble or Tail's Triple Trouble? Yes, it was Sonic Triple Trouble. It was.

Let's move on Amy. I happen to my 3D S. Okay. Move on Amy, a strong feminist character. She likes shopping in boys, specifically Sonic the Hedgehog, and she spends a lot of the game, like, trying to get her meat hooks into Sonic. This was the origin of the song Kissed by a Rose. Kissed by a Rose.

It's kissed by an Amy Rose, actually. Amy Rose, that's right. Amy has a weird, like, a backstory in terms of where she came from. Like, she originated from a manga in Japan, and then they put her in the Sonic CD game. And then for this one, they made her ultra pink. Like, everything about her is pink. Yeah. I believe she also wears Clarissa's dress from Christmas nights.

Oh, wow. Oh, boy. They want to put, they just wanted to make knights. Let's just get to the point here. They wanted to make nights again, which is why you play an entire night's pinball machine. But, yeah. So, like, again, Amy, she is basically chased by a robot, and you have to, run away from the robot throughout her levels, and she has a giant, like, big squeaky hammer,

sort of like a real Japanese prop comic thing going for her. She can bounce with it, and that's basically it. It's not very fun. Knuckles, unfortunately, we don't get any wraps in Sonic Adventure one. You'll have to wait for two for those, and they're great. But this, I feel like, is like playing a platforming game while a car alarm is going off in the background. Yeah. It's like, right.

Right, please. No, I just, I can't imagine being a parent during this time just trying to like a small kid playing these knuckles levels. I remember it being more annoying. Maybe they tweak that for the DX release. I remember this being much louder and much, much shriller. But yeah, so knuckles levels, I think they're unique to knuckles, but they are like enclosed arenas where you basically, without a map, you fly around. And as your little radar starts beeping, you have to find. the three crystal shards scattered throughout

the little enclosed arenas. And that's Knuckles. And I, as we've said, not great. Not great stuff. It's a weird approach to trying to make the best out of Nuckles' ability from the other game, which is his flying, his flying floating. Yeah. And I feel like, you're right, Ray, in that they built these enclosed levels because they're like,

we want Nuckles to climb, but we don't want Nuckles to break the game. And Nuckles cannot exist in any existing stage because he would just climb out of bounds or whatever. So he's got to, like, live in these little boxes. Absolutely. We have E-102 Gamma, and he, like we said before, he's got the shooting levels, and they mainly involve walking forward while holding in the button and then releasing it. It reminds me of, like, res in a way, but not a good res, just like the way you highlight things and select them. Sorry, Katie, please. Oh, I just like bad res.

Bad res. Bad res, yes. And I believe E-102 Gamma, there's a robot in Sonic Metro, too. It's the same robot. It can't be. I think it's a different symbol. Yeah, because I couldn't finish the game for. He's like The Terminator.

I like The Terminator. Okay. So I couldn't finish this game for the podcast because it was too long and I was just being very sad. But I was watching all the endings and stuff. And this is a very odd ending in that he, one of two games as like a virtuous suicide where like he kills himself to release this bird that's inside of him. It's very like a total. He's like the robot, one of the robots that Robotnik puts, sorry, Eggman puts things into. You're one of his henchmen and Robotnik.

Sorry, Eggman will get to, we'll get, we'll get to them. that. Robotnik pits you against the other units to find out who's the better robot. Eventually, you betray him and you help Amy or whatever. So last one is the best one. I stayed it for last. It's Big the Cats. Fan favorite, of course. They kill him in Sonic Adventure 2 on screen.

It's great. It's like a real Jar Jar Treatment. I mean, he gets run over by that truck in the first level, right? In Sonic Metro 2 in the background? You have to like look for it. It's not like an obvious thing that's shown to you. They put it in there for a reason, though. It's put in there.

I feel like he got the real Jar Jar Treatment. It's like he's the one who betrayed Sonic. But I feel like unfairly big is kind of the scapegoat for Sonic Adventure one's why it's bad. But I feel like, as I said before, like a lot of Japanese games have fishing stuff in them. And they're fine. Like, I fish in Yakuza games. I fish in, I fish the Final Fantasy 15. The hell out of five.

I maxed out my fishing level on that game. Fishing Sega bass fishing, another great dreamcast game. And I think, I'll, I think. Again, they needed to pat out the game. They needed more content, but this was, was this Taylor made for the fishing controller, ultimately? Was it compatible even? Oh, God. That's a good question.

Sorry for anyone who's screaming at us at home. I don't think it was a secret thing. Yeah, but it's just like they probably had, like, code or, you know, something they could not easily drop into, but could transfer. People played sole caliber with the fishing controller, so it's possible in a way. That is true, yeah. But I don't know how you guys feel like it's, it's fine, but I don't think this is, this is, the one thing that makes Sonic Adventure bad It's weird because as you go through this list of characters

It's like it goes progressively slower It is, yeah I don't think I did that on purpose But finally just ground to a halt with me Yeah Yeah and it's weird Like big of the cat Like they put him into levels with enemies

But then you just have to find the Like the water sources to fish in And you have to find froggy I gotta say the way big is Voice and Axe I feel like he's a problematic character in 2018 I don't think we have any more duh Duh kind of characters anymore

in, you know, Lenny-style characters as I would call them in games. Yeah, I feel like they would not make these choices today. That's just my SGAW perspective. But, yeah, any final thoughts?

We're going to take our break soon, but, like, any final thoughts of these characters? Like, two of them are new. Amy is basically new to Sonic Adventure. Any other thoughts about this cast of misfits and freaks?

I still like Knuckles. Yeah? Yeah, the only thing I remember about Knuckles levels, though, is that beeping. That's it. Like, that's the only, like memory I have of knuckles in Sonic Adventure 1, which is kind of sad.

And would the VMU help you at all with those levels? Would that light up too, or not light up, but show you a little thing? I don't think it would even help you. Yeah, so... Secondary thing, yeah. On that note, we'll take our break, and we'll talk more about Sonic Adventure 1. I just go about wishing

I want to be strong I really want to be trusted when all alone in my bed I just go about yearning I want to be cool I also want to be like him but that's not something to do so easily

What's it like for you watching games of your son coaching? Agonizing. It's a family affair on Attack Each Day, the Harbaugh's podcast. You know, I didn't know there was actual words here. Recent guests include Rich Eisen, John Harbaugh, Judge Judy, and John Madden. I thought one of the greatest jobs in coaching in the NFL was Jim's first year with the 49ers. Exclusively on Podcast One Sportsnet. Get episodes every Tuesday.

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Send her my condolences. Hi-oh. This next one's for you, too. There's a burglar in my heart. Thank you. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates, discounts not available in all states or situations. So we're back, and I have not made many Sonic the Hedgehog fan friends in this episode so far.

And I want to say there are some good things about this game, and I will talk about them. And hopefully you guys will help me compliment Sonic the Hedgehog. as many achievements. I'm all the years. Yes. So the good stuff, I think, like, Sonic, Sega had a big, like a very tall order on their hands when it came to, I guess, bringing Sonic into the world of 3D gaming.

And to be fair, this game, I feel like, met the expectations of the time. It was reviewed very well for as much as that means to you. I feel like there was not immediate backlash to this game. I feel like Sonic Adventure 2 was the game that I feel got the most backlash. I don't remember Sonic Adventure 1 hearing like, oh, that game sucks or, oh, can you believe what they did with Sonic? That's accurate. Yeah. And I don't know why.

So, Ray, this is not a Sonic Adventure 2 episode. I do want to say, we are going to have one. I have an expert flying in to talk about Sonic Adventure 2. And I'm going to make sure she doesn't hear this episode because she will cancel on me. But, Ray, can you talk about Sonic Adventure 2? Like, you said you wanted to talk about it. This is your chance. Well, I mean, just on a basic level, it's much worse.

in many respects. I think, you know, they did try to fix things a little bit by sort of making the level designs more segregated for each character. So, I mean, instead of making one huge playground and then sort of trying to fit a character into that, like, say, Amy or whoever. Like, Amy has her own certain paths through the levels and adventure, too. But, you know, you have basically not really any more lessons learned from that in the level design. You just have basically new problems created based on the fact that, you know, even the knuckles stages just kind of feel even longer. And there's two versions of them, too, with rouge. Yeah.

Wait, is it a rouge or it's rouge? It's rude. Everyone misspelled it. That's why I don't know anything like. Rogue the bat. But, yeah, the other thing is everything's doubled up because you have the hero and the dark side now because you have those characters. Yeah. So, you have to play with that.

Just a little more padding. But it's funny, like, isn't the vocal theme for that game live and learn? Yeah. And they learn nothing. Please continue, right. Sorry. Also, well, speaking of vocal things, the audio mix is way worse. Like, there's a lot of very quiet voices and also lots of, like, talking over each other and stuff, which is just, like, an old episode of Retronauts.

Oh, my God. Yes. Well, you're not blaring, like, Crush 40 in the background. while Scott Sharkey's talking. Nope, now I wish we had. Special edition. Yeah, I mean, it's just so flabbergasting because they never fixed it for the ports or anything afterward. And it's just, it's weird.

Yeah, it is weird what they, going back to Sonic Venture 1, what they didn't fix, like really. I mean, not even like, like, again, sound mixing issues because, okay, we'll get to that. I feel like this is the positive section. We'll get to the negative stuff. But I don't want ready to talk about Sonic Adventure, too, because, again, that will be its own episode. We're going to dig deep. it'll be a journey into madness, I think, for some of us, but we'll make it out the other side. Yeah, I don't want to go off to off track.

That's okay. But it is important to reference in connection to this game because I feel like they were trying to answer criticisms or they're trying to respond to criticisms in Sonic Venture 2. I don't know if they did it very well. Ray doesn't think so, and I don't really think so either. So the good things about this game, there are some good things. And I feel like the ambition on display, they get an, okay, they get an A-for-E-E-FER. They get a grape job sticker on their shirt. And if you scratch it, it smells like a grape.

thank you Pat and Oswald for that joke and I feel like yes they tried very very hard they frankly did a lot in 10 months and the fact that they were like it's not just a Sonic game it's also a scavenger hunt it's also a shooting game there's a cart racer in this game

there's a flying stage in the game there's a fishing mini game there's also these towns and with puzzles in it and there's cut scenes and voice acting and all of these timelines these characters are going through like I feel like in terms of execution, not great. In terms of

effort and what they tried, I feel like, yeah, like, way to go, guys. You needed to make the first 3e Sonic game a big deal, and you tried. You tried very hard. Yes. I don't know if I'm sounding patronizing or not. Please help me. No, no. I believe it. Yes. And I want to say also,

the music in this game is awesome. The music is really good, I think. Yes, and no. It's rad to the max. It's totally chill sometimes. I caution against loving it too unironically. I don't know. Maybe, Katie, can you chime in on the music? I don't know if anyone would agree with me, but I feel like this game is the kind of the sweet spot.

I feel like in Sonic Venture 2, they got a little too into vocal themes where it's just like, I don't need all these songs from Knuckles perspective, okay? I know what he's after. The raps are fun out of context, but when you have to hear them looping in a game, you're like, I can't believe this is happening. I feel like I like the, I like the Crush 40 stuff because it's so earnest, you know? Yeah, that's true. I don't know, you can like feel that those dudes really.

actually into this and then like forces got like the guy from hubas stang and you're like he's crushed 40 cuba stank yeah wait it's true how was this kept for me for so long there's like so yeah the year 2017 they got the guy from hoopasank to do the main theme for sonic forces god i believe i'm sorry katie please yeah and i have nothing else to me i can't add to this it's just it just you can find it on youtube wow i i was i was first made familiar with huba stank that is the last level in elite beat agents. That in, what a rolling Jumpinjack Flash?

What an odd pairing? It's just like, you'll go from Rolling Stones to the ultimate band, Hubastank. I'd add that the main background music is mostly okay. I think even some of it was made in like in the Saturn era, way before the game started really being made. So I think some of it, you know, has

a very sort of last-gen quality, which is good. Yeah, yeah. Still a sonic vibe to it. Yeah. And overall, I think I like the sonic music a lot. and Mario music is really good too but Sonic is also very good so we didn't touch on this at all and I think Katie might have more experience than me

with this is the Chow Garden stuff so this was again these people love their Knights in the Dreams and this is right out of Knights in the Dreams it was called A Life in Nights in Dreams I never touched it when I played Knights into Dreams but essentially just like a virtual pet again Tamagotchi was huge at the time

and I think that is one of the reasons why the VMU looks like a Tamagotchi and has like the same basic technology. That is what was happening in Japan at the time. And this essentially like a way to have virtual pet in the game itself and to take it with you outside of the game on the VMU while its battery still existed and lasted. Did you interact with this at all? Katie or Ray? I never really did. I did it a little bit with one. It was definitely more two where I got like hardcore into it where I like you get like two chowel gardens like the shadow dark side one

and the good side one. But for one, like I like, because I had that little whatever VMU thing and that felt really cool because it felt like I was taking my chow

like everywhere, you know, I was like, oh, I'm taking it on the go. Were the mechanics very different between one and two? I just sort of want to know like, because, so this was put in the game by Isuka because again,

he's a big night's guy, he was lead designer, but also he was like, I want people who don't play video games to have something to do in Sonic Adventure and this could be something they can do. But at the same time,

this is not explain itself at all. Like, it, It in no way explains itself. I mean, there are tutorial windows or in boxes and stuff like that, but I feel like it's just sort of very baffling as to what you're supposed to do. As a veteran gamer, I should be able to figure it out instantly. A newcomer is not going to have any understanding as what's going on. Like, how does this work?

I'd say one is more a little more complicated because it's more of an actual raising sim and stuff. Like, there's more, I don't want to like purse, like, the moment's a moment of it. By her being more like you're actually raising each out, whereas, like, with two you just feed them like animals and then they turn into the animals it's really weird and you just like pet them and then they're like get happy or whatever and you can race them it is like if the animals you rescue you collect them in the stages and you feed them to chow's i don't know if they use if that's the verb they like to use but i feel like there's something going on there yeah it's just like they're all carnivores basically but uh yeah i remember like one was definitely more into the actual like raising sim elements like maybe because tomaguchi was like such a big thing yeah era, like, uh, and again, like, uh, Tamigachi, that's why we have the pocket station, or we didn't have it, but Japan had it just like, we need something that is like a Tomogachi that can interact with games and do these very basic mini games where you can collect things and raise a thing and feed a thing. Um, so yeah, that's where that came from. Uh, so the game, this was

a very good looking game in 1998, 1998, and this is the, we must praise Sonic section, but also with all of these there are downsides I'm seeing. Uh, when you're making a photo realistic game in 1998, it's not going to look so hot 20 years later, unfortunately. I just play through the PC version, and I feel like this was definitely a graphical showcase before the PS2 and the Xbox launch. Like I said, at those demo kiosk, you're like,

wow, there's a whale, and there's reflections and shading and all this stuff. I mean, the whale is probably the most impressive graphical bit in that whole game. There are other bits of spectacle in other levels for sure, but yeah, the fact that they kept going back to that whale scene, yeah. I mean, some of it falls apart after that, I think.

I feel like in a lot of the 3D games, there is a big thing that chases you at the end of the first level. At least Sonic Venture 2, there was a truck. I don't know. Have you played any of the other 3D games, Katie, that followed this? Were there any similar set pieces like that? There are a lot of things in this game where something is chasing you and you just are running towards the screen and not really doing much of anything. I feel like I remember a lot. That just seems to be like the 3D Sonic formula is like you're running towards the screen.

And it's kind of like the crash formula in a way. Oh, yeah. It's like crash. That's a lot of the same thing with the ball rolling. Right. I don't know. Like, I can't remember like a particular one. I know, like, obviously generations had it a lot because it was like a lot of just copying their old games.

There's definitely, definitely some of that in forces. And also stages where it's like 2D and you're running and like things are destroying the level behind you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, Sonic is really geared toward that. I mean, that is a natural extension of the concept.

Oh, yeah. I believe it. So the last, what I feel like it was a good end. ambitious idea, but not super great in execution. The storylines, it's pretty interesting at first where you start a Sonic and then gradually you unlock more characters, and as you unlock those characters, you start to see the story from their perspective at different times. The issue is, like, a lot of characters are sort of segregated to their own stories and a lot

of characters where they interact. It doesn't make a lot of sense. Like, why is Taylor suddenly here? Another problem is that you end up doing a lot of the same things, especially between Sonic and Tales. You will see the same cutscenes. You will fight the same bosses a lot. It's just like, I feel like it started as a good idea,

but it ended up being an excuse to reuse levels and things like that. Sonic Adventure, more like Roshamanic Adventure. Exactly. Roshamanic the Hedgehog. But, yeah, like, I feel like this could have been, I love this idea in a game. I love games where you play through with one character, and then you see the other character's perspective.

When it's done well, it is so cool because it's harder to do that in any other medium, really. But it didn't really work out here for me. Thank you. So we have not been negative yet, and I want to start doing that now, talking about the troubles, as I call them. And I'm going to start with the audacity, the sheer hubris to start saying Eggman. Without any explanation, they were just like, no, I know he was Eggman all along. Yeah, well, does Peach upset you too? No.

They actually gave you a transition. Yeah. Dear Mario, come to my castle. I've made you a cake. Signed Princess Tots duel. Beach. No, no. No.

No. They at least tried to work towards the change, but the second you see Robotnik, it's Eggman. Yeah. Well, I think they tried to present it as like, now that's just Sonic's new nickname for him. But it was, it should be Robutnik. Okay, not that. Watch the cartoons, everyone. That is the true canon.

Yes. So as we talked about earlier, some more problems. The dynamic camera angles end up being pretty bad, and they often obscure very important visual information. With the DX version, they did add a free camera, but it is not like tied to another stick. It's sort of like using the L&R buttons to sort of rotate around Sonic. And it doesn't help.

It moves too slow. What you do it on Dreamcast? That's on Dreamcast, too? The triggers have, well, not in every situation. Okay. Yeah, you can do the rotated around with the triggers. It doesn't help very much. And I feel like later Sonic games would get better.

at putting the camera behind Sonic and making the camera, you know, show you what they need to show you. There's a lot of times you're like, I don't know where to jump next, and I can't move the camera, and I just feel like I'm screwed here. In some cases, like on the sky deck level

where they're just reversing gravity without really changing the camera properly, and it's like you can't really worry at yourself because you're being swished and swooshed around so much. That is another problem, right? Like, if you're running in one direction, the camera changes, you're like, okay, what do I need to be?

push, like what direction do we need to push next to keep going forward? Do I just keep the direction I was holding? Do I switch to the screen relative direction or the character? It is very confusing at any given moment like, what, how do I go forward now? That is a big problem with this game. There's very little correction for those

sorts of things. Yeah, and they do it a lot. They change camera angles a lot. And again, like, this starts off, this starts a like a new weird canon for Sonic where I feel like they really wanted this because it's been a thing from this point on where it's like Sonic is in the real world.

He's in a photo realistic world. Previously, it was like, it seemed like robotic was the only human invading this world of animals and, like, taking it over. We did not see any other humans. Even, no, there were humans in the cartoons. But I feel like there's just been so many different Sonic canons. Even Sega took, like, three tries before they figured out, like, oh, he's not Chuck Yeager's son or whatever we discovered in that episode. I mean, I mean, I think we talked. about, like, do we not feel good about this?

This is, again, this infected the reception of Mario Odyssey. I don't think we need to revisit that anymore. But the multiple characters, it seems cool at the time, but again, there's a lot of crossover. There is a lot of things that don't make sense, especially with the game where they want you to focus on the story. The story is kind of stupid, to be honest. It's like

Sonic gets an emerald, he loses it. He gets another emerald, he loses it. It's very kids anime, and I mean that like 7 a.m. Kids anime. Yeah, yeah. They could have done a lot more with this, this branching timeline thing and they really didn't.

It's just very basic. And it's funny that in the previous games you had to work so hard to get Chaos Emeralds in this game and just like there's one waiting at the end of every stage for you.

Just like, here, have a Chaos Emerald. And this game is really more about collecting those emblems, am I correct? To get, I mean, you eventually unlock Super Sonic just by beating the game,

I think. Yeah. But the emblems are really what you're working towards in terms of unlocking things. And I think the ultimate goal, is it in this game or two where you unlock like Greenhill

zone? That's two. Okay. What is the final unlock in this? I think I know some of the DX unlocks, but nothing for this. I don't know offhand. I don't know. I couldn't find it. Maybe it's just glory. Glory. The glory of being the best Sonic Adventure. The best Sonic Adventure fan ever. But yeah, DX incentivized it.

Yeah. So the voice acting is a treat. I don't want to talk about one's very in 1998. It is very 1998. It's very Sega like of 1998, too. Because it's like, was Urkel too much? Was Erkle too much for you. Family Matters was ending. He needed some money. Yeah, it's kind of

sad. They just kind of let him go. It felt like he was the de facto son. I mean, he was a de facto Sonic voice, but I feel like sake of Jimmy as like, Erkel Who, like we make our own decisions here. And this guy Ryan Drummond, he doesn't okay job. He's not asked to do much. And I think he was

he was the Sonic voice for a long time. I don't know if he still is, but I remember there being a big, a big petition when that Sonic X anime started where it's like petition for kids to reinstall Ryan Drummond as the ultimate sonic voice. So I guess people, like, that was, that was that generation's Jaliel White.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I feel like Mark Hamel was treated a lot better than Jaliel White was. In what way? You know, it's Joker. Oh, yeah. There's this iteration for Mark Hamill's Joker. Yeah, exactly, exactly.

So people were mad that, like, Caesar Romero was not on the AMA series? Was he still alive? Do we know this? Maybe not. I don't think anyone was ever like, yeah, he should be. Yeah, I didn't think so. That painted over mustache, just, it's creepy. Let's not even talk about it.

it anymore. Yeah, and the voice acting, and we talked about the mixing, but whenever I, whenever I watch cutscenes in this game, I think of the Simpsons line, it's whisper quiet. Because they're just happy. It's not as bad as two, though. Maybe it's worse than two, but in this game, it's just like, it's like people talking at like a party or something. That's what it feels like every cutscene is just like, you're at a party and you're just talking, but you can barely understand anything. But they're not even trying to shout over the music. It just like, it could be in your face. It could be a matter of ports too, but I, because I was planning on. Dreamcast most recently, but it seemed

fine, and it's really worse than two. Yeah, maybe they made it worse than DX. That's the version I play. Yeah, maybe. Yeah, so the Sonic and Tail segments are the best in this game, but they are still, they still have problems in that, like we talked about before, camera angle can mess you up,

it's easy to clip through geometry, it's easy to die really easily without understanding why that happened. Yeah. And I really don't think, I think it honestly took them and correct me if I'm wrong, because I didn't pick these games up again for another 10 years, but I think by the time I played colors of generations, I'm like, you, you figured it out in some way. It's still not as good as

2D Sonic, but this is probably the best it can be. I mean, ultimately, my slander's theory is that Sonic just does not work in 3D, but they can't abandon Sonic, but I feel like this gameplay does not work in 3D. I agree. I mean, Jeremy elaborate on this. You're the elder statesman of gaming. Okay, sure. I mean, it goes back to what I was saying about pressure. It goes back to what I was saying about the engine and the physics and stuff. I just don't like playing his tails. Tails is like not fun to play as.

Like kind of the worst. Yeah. He sucks. He's not as fast as Sonic. So it's like they just plopped them in the same levels, but you can fly to like shortcuts and stuff. But it's like that's not fun. The flying is pretty wonky too.

It's not good. Yeah. There's so many times where I felt like I'd be flying and like hitting like a thing because I'm like trying to angle and the camera's like just doing its own thing. It's not helpful. Yeah. Yeah, 3D Sonic has a lot of just fundamental conceptual problems, even looking beyond the tech errors and issues that Ray talked about. You know, in the early Sonic games, those bursts of speed were just that.

They were bursts. They were these momentary sort of like instance of elation where all of a sudden you'd go zipping by and, you know, you'd go through a loop or something and collect a bunch of coins. But we're talking just like a few seconds of which you're sort of taken out of the action and get to, you know, enjoy the exhilaration of speed. The rest of the games were much more meticulous. Like, a lot of times you needed to maintain a decent momentum, but you weren't careening wildly out of control. But it's just really hard.

It's hard to capture that sort of platforming element of a 2D Sonic game without slowing things down to like a Mario 64 style. Like, finding that balance between momentum, speed, and, you know, particular control in a 3D space, it's really, really difficult. And Sega has not locked that down. And I don't know if it's possible. Yeah, it is like, so with Sonic,

the Sonic 2D games, he, it's not, it's not how I want a character to control, but it works well within those levels and that it takes them while to build up momentum. Like, if you start running in a Sonic game, he's kind of slow until you have moved, like, for a couple of seconds. Yeah, I mean, that's why they added the spin dash in two

to, like, give you an instant speed. But you have to, like, pause and, you know, kind of build up a charge. So it's like a mechanic. It's a tradeoff. Like, you have to stop for a second and kill your momentum in order to gain it. And in these 3D games, though, it's like he's immediately, immediately fast and immediately, like, very slippery, which is annoying because I love Sonic generations, but there are, like, these sub goals and levels where it's, like, collect these five things. And it's doable as 2D Sonic, but as 3D Sonic, you're like, I just blew past that. I had no way to correct myself.

And I, maybe I'll try this level again. I don't know how to get back there. It's an issue with the later games, too, I think. Yeah, the 3D ones really do emphasize speed as soon as possible. Yeah, which is like they were trying to be flashy, but at what cost or at what cost? Again, the coolest segments in this game, they really are just like hold in the stick or don't.

I don't even know if you don't hold in the stick, nothing will happen, like if you're being chased by the whale or the avalanche or... Well, yeah, because you're being zipped along by the zip panels most of the time. That's true. That is true, yeah. And, like, I forgot there's, like, snowboarding in this game, too. There's just so much happening in this game. I, it's like, it wants to be everything.

They really wanted this game to be everything. But, again, I think I've covered all of these problems. The hub segment is a big waste of time, big WOT. You just have to. A hub would be better if everything was better marked. Yeah, yeah. Like, I still want to. Just a bunch of doors in a town most of the time.

It's true. Like, for, like, 15 minutes when I was playing this, I would. I was stumped as to like, how do I get to the casino area? And if I was playing this on a stream, I'm sure somebody would capture it and then written a giant essay about how games journalists are all bad at games. She'd be fired. This Bob Mackie couldn't find the casino. Why do I not have his job?

I will have a positive comment on the hub, at least, that the Mystic Ruins part. It's actually kind of nice. The music is really fitting. It's kind of a nice place to hang out in, if I could say that. There's, like, one guy to talk to, and he's kind of pleasant, I guess. So, this game is now, like, currently available for every platform. It was re-released in June 2003 for the GameCube as Sonic Adventure DX, and this is the version that you can play on everything now. PC, I believe, PS4 and Xbox 1 even, and they're available for?

No, no, not even, okay. I thought this game was so, I don't know, wait for it, folks, but this is the ideal definitive version. I guess if you want to play the original, you have to play the Dreamcast game because you can't get it elsewhere. Yeah, pretty much. But I mean, okay, the thing is that they didn't change a whole lot on the surface except some graphics, and the game is still kind of bad. I think worse, it's elevated, you know, its badness is elevated when it's brought to these new platforms because they didn't really fix a whole lot of key design problems or things even with the physics. Like sometimes the physics are worse, and you fall into stuff just as much or more. That is true.

I think when you upgrade the graphics, upgrade in quotes, because they can only be so good. Like, I think it just makes the other things seem worse because it feels like it looks like a more modern game, but then the play is still the same. Yeah, that's why I think, you know, I did review DX, the 360 and PS3 versions for one-up. Oh, right, yeah. I don't want to talk about that. What did you give it? Do you remember? D.

Okay. I remember there being quite some blowback to that, as with all reviews that people. Right, of course. I have persons from people from Katie's generation. That's fine. Katie wrote the top review. That is me. Bring me the head of Ray Barnhold.

But I would give Sonic. venture on Dreamcast, a slightly higher score just because, you know, it has more going for it on that platform. But when they don't fix anything in a new port, it's like, it's a really shameful job, I think. And I think

you know, this game is probably one of the highlights of 3D Sonics and deserves better. It could use kind of a better, more cohesive remake. I guess, you know, in ways we got that in generations. Yeah, I feel, though you're right, Ray. Like, I feel like that's why I like generations.

It's like they, They made it work as best as possible, so I was able to revisit these levels in a sort of an ideal form or as close to an ideal form as it could be. And I reviewed that game. I gave it a B plus, I think, and that's my favorite Sonic game. It's high. It's way too high. I don't like generations. I guess I was just like, I don't hate this, B.

Yeah. It's kind of like a passionless Sonic game. I think that's why it's polished. Like, it's probably the best playing. Yeah, that's why I like to. Like, in that sense. but man it's just like there's no like heart

behind it I guess like they like really try with the other Sonic games even when they fail but with generations it's just like I guess it's just what the fans want and they want 2D again and 3D I guess it was passionless in that it was just like shameless nostalgia

but at the same time it was like here's 2D Sonic he doesn't talk and I was like yes finally he's bad Fat Sonic is back everybody I think you know some of the other reviews of DX the more recent DX around that time It's just like, yeah, probably as mean as I was to it.

But because it's like when you try and present, like, the casino zone to a present-day reviewer, they're going to, of course they're going to shit on it. Because if you're a casino zone, you can't get through it in less than like five minutes. That is a bummer. Yeah, I should have mentioned that. Like, so they try so many weird things in this game and, like, it was clear they wanted to make like casino night zone in 3D, but they didn't have the time. So you go into, you walk into a realistic casino. In order to beat the stage, you have to play pinball to collect rings. Yeah, those stages used to be about, you know, a fantasy pinball stage, but now it's just like, now we have to play real pinball to beat the stage.

And it takes a long time. Because you have to be, you have to get a certain number of rings to fill up the mountain of gold rings to reach the goal, which is fun. And that's like, that's like the second Sonic stage you play, I think. Like literally the second one. Yeah. It's got a really, boy, we are just bagging on Sonic Adventure, but it's got a really weird pacing where it's like the game starts with a boss fight, like an easy boss fight. And that's one of the things I, I didn't mention about the game. But this game, to work in a 3D space, they add the homing attack, which you use to attack enemies. You jump in the air.

You hit the jump button again, you immediately, like, blam, blast into the enemy. This makes every boss fight, like, not, like, artless and boring, because you're just, like, I'll hit the button twice. Nope, I got him again, and then now he's dead. Like, especially with that gamma robot, it's just like, lock on, shoot, lock on shoot, lock on shoot, I'm done. Like, they did not figure out a way for that to work, that kind of gameplay to work with bosses, I think. Like, it's very, very artless in an execution. But, yeah, what an odd, like, what an odd, like... Yeah, the casino thing is weird because they could have, you know, done the whole, like, hey, let's do all kinds of everything with Sonic.

They could have made, like, Sonic Spinball in 3D, but they didn't. Yeah. Sonic Spinball's bad, though, Jeremy. Yeah, but they could have made it in 3D and made it good. That's true. Am I asking too much? I choose to call it Sonic's pinball, as it was meant to be called. No.

That's the pun, everybody. Oh, my God. So we are talking about Sonic Adventure DX Before we wrap up here Again, released in June 2003 for GameCube That was the first major we released And that was like worlds were colliding Was this released on GameCube before Sonic Venture 2?

No, after. After, okay, that was the big deal. Sort of like how Luigi's Mansion now is coming out on 3DS. Oh, my God. Why? But again, simpler times, everybody. What was your response when you saw Sonic game on the GameCube? It was just like, this shouldn't happen.

I can't believe this. No, I thought the opposite. This is the most natural path, of course. Oh, Sega, yeah. Now is the time to repent. To repent. But then they put all their games on Xbox, which I felt like it was a weird decision to me. Well, having already played Shinobi on NES, it was totally fine to me.

So some changes into Sonic Venture DX. If you go to, if you go like the wiki about this game, it is like 30,000 words of like very, very granular changes to the game. Like they move this power up and they change this texture and this sound is different. Which amounts to nothing. Yeah. That's my point. I feel like this is like a laundry list of things they wanted to put in the, not even the American version, but it's just like even past that. They're like, we still want to implement all these changes.

We can't yet. We have to ship this game. So like Ray said, these aren't fundamental changes. There are a series of tweaks. And I think, like, I guess they improve the experience somewhat, but not to level that this game needs for sure. Some of the additions to DX are playable metal Sonic and in trial mode, I guess, not in story mode. And Cream the Rabbit appears to signal her upcoming debut in Sonic advertisement. Vance 2.

Sonic Vance 2? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so no playable cream, but she's, I thought I was like seeing things or something. I'm like, why is cream in this game? This doesn't make any sense to me. So, yeah, that has been So, yeah, that has been Sonic Adventure. Again, my deepest apologies to you if you enjoy Sonic Adventure.

said, we are doing a Sonic Venture 2 episode soon, and there will be someone on that episode that loves the game, and that will redeem all of us, hopefully in your eyes, after trashing Sonic Adventure 1. But like I said, this is an A for effort game, not give it maybe like a D for execution, but they tried so hard and they only had 10 months, and I feel so bad because, dear God, if they, like, Sonic Extreme was such a mess, if they were able to start development earlier, who knows what this game could have been. It could have been much better.

That's why I am a little bit more forgiving of it on Dreamcast. on Dreamcast, right? Yes. I totally agree with you, Ray. Like, I hate to bag on Sonic and especially the 3D Sonics. It's a very hack thing to do, because we all know, like, yes, we know some of these games are bad. But I wanted to revisit this and see now that I sort of like 3D Sonic, sometimes I want to see how I felt about the game and I still don't really like it. But I do want to ask everybody, my final question for today's recording is, what did Sonic team learn from this first outing in 3D Sonic land? Or did they learn anything? thing. Katie, what is your responses? I'm just curious. I don't think they learned anything. Really? They just kept doing the same thing. I guess even with Sonic forces, there are still a lot of the same issues. Yeah, because I feel like, yeah,

like every Sonic 3D game has similar issues, in my opinion. But I also feel like it's kind of the start of, like, Sonic team just, like, doing, like, weird stuff. Yeah. Which I've always appreciated. Like, they just kind of do whatever they want. Like, they don't only follow what fans demand

until like generations or even colors to like some extent but or even like forces with the character creator but it's like it feels like Sonic their Sonic 3D games are always doing something weird and even most time it doesn't work at all but I mean I guess like the start of that trend but I don't know if I actually like learned anything it makes like at least reading the previews fun like oh there's you can put yourself insert Sonic character in this one and then the game turns out to not be good but the idea is still pretty fun behind that Jeremy, you're the Sonic Force's expert.

Talk to us about Sonic 3D games. What did they have to learn? Did they learn anything? So I feel like, you know, what they have tried to do over the course of the Sonic series is really minimize the free-roaming 3D stages, which really are antithetical to the idea of Sonic. They're Mario. They're not Sonic. But they still haven't quite found the solution.

I feel like they are earnestly trying. They just keep making a lot of bad decisions. And I'm sure, you know, they have limited budget and schedules to hit and, you know, all those things. But Sonic deserves better than he's been given. I think there's a reason people love stuff like Sonic Mania and Sonic Colors because those are much more like throwbacks to the 2D style. Maybe Sonic just doesn't work in 3D. Maybe to have Sonic work in 3D, it should be like a Sonic R racing game. They just actually

So by the time this episode comes out People will know But they teased another Sonic racing game And we don't know what it'll be But it was kind of teased Yeah We don't know yet But there's like a car revving

So it's like racing transform Which is great Those are great Those are really good Yeah but the rumor was that It'll be just Sonic characters I don't like that I don't like that

Ray How do you feel about this question? How do I feel about it? Also answer it I will try to like twist it in such a way I think they learned how to make a 3D Sonic game and use some elements that could be used in the future.

For example, like zip panels and things like that. Homing attacks. But again, I kind of go back to what I was talking about technical stuff. It's like, you know, you kind of have to lower the amount of slopes and things and use more straightaways to keep up that feeling of speed and, you know, have Sonic do what he's known for. And I think, yeah, I, But in a way, they didn't learn a whole lot after that.

Sonic Adventure 2, I think, kind of learned or executed the wrong lessons, I think. Interesting. Instead, they just went deeper into just sort of gimmicky things with, you know, like the shitty friends and more drama and stuff like that. So in some ways, yeah, it didn't all work out. Well, I think everyone knows how I feel about this game, so I want to answer this question. But thank you for joining us for this episode again. I promise there'll be a more positive Sonic Adventure 2 episode. I'll be biting my tongue off in that recording.

But I'll let you know what I do after I tell you about Retronauts and how you can help us out. So we're a Patreon-supported show, and this Patreon funds everything we do. We do some ads, but Patreon is sort of the backbone of the show's funding. So if you go to Patreon.com slash Retronauts, you can go there. If you pledge $3, you'll get every episode a week ahead of time, add free, and at a higher bit rate. And that can just all go in an RSS feed that you can plug into any podcatcher or iTunes. or what have you, whatever you use to listen to the podcast. So that is how we, you know, fund the show.

And if you don't like ads and if you want to get things ahead of time and be ahead of the game on Retronauts, that's the best way to support our show. We really appreciate it. We could not do any of this without your help. I will let you know what I do and who I am last. Let's go around the room and see what people are up to. Jeremy. Yeah, I'm doing this Retronaut.

And you can find me personally at GameSpite on Twitter. You can also find me on YouTube where I'm creating. chronological videos about every freaking Game Boy in N-E-S and Super N-E-S game ever. Congrats on hitting 100. Thanks. As of this recording.

I'm going to be dead someday. Katie, how about you? You can find my work at USGamer.net. I'm on Twitter at you make Haiti. It's Y-U-M-E-C-A-T-Y-M-F. And I'm also on two podcasts. So I'm on the U.S. Gamer podcast, which I host, co-hosts, my co-workers, Nadia Oxford, and Mike

Williams. I'm also have a personal podcast. that I co-host with Josh Glickstow, who's a freelance writer and Kyle Cookstow, who's an indie developer, and it's called Bad End Podcast, and I think the Twitter's literally just Bad End podcast. But, yeah, and that's where you can find me. Awesome. Thanks for being on, Katie. We will have you back soon.

Ray, how about you? I am on Twitter, R-D-B-A-A-A-A, and making a meta game called BlastRush on iOS and Android. Find that at Blastrush.com, I suppose. Yeah. I'm trying to think if I should mention my other podcast yet. But let's go ahead. No More Whoppers is my podcast as well, personal. Yeah.

No more Woppers. Attumler.com. Yeah, that's good. As for me, I've been your host, Bob Mackey. You can find me on Twitter as Bob Serbo. Please don't yell at me there. There are other ways to yell at me. Many ways.

Perhaps in public can make a scene. That's what I want. I have a Patreon where I do a lot of stuff. I get a little bit of money out of retronauts. I do a little work for Retronauts. I do most of my work for the Talking Simpsons Network. you go to Patreon.com slash Talking Simpsons.

We will give you Talking Simpsons a week in advance just like Retronauts. And our new series, What a cartoon, a week ahead of time. And we also have a Patreon exclusive new series called Talking Futurama. It might all be out by this point,

but if you go to Patreon.com slash Talking Simpsons, the $5 level, you can get those episodes a week ahead of time and like dozens of dozens of bonus podcast and exclusive series like Talking Critic and Talking Futurama.

That's how I get most of my money to buy a roof and food, which are very important for a growing young boy. So thank you for joining us, folks, and we'll see you next Monday for a brand new episode. Goodbye. Let's say you just bought a house. Bad news is you're one step closer to becoming your parents.

You'll proudly mow the lawn. Ask if anybody noticed you mowed the lawn. Tell people to stay off the lawn. Compare it to your neighbor's lawn and complain about having to mow the lawn again. Good news is it's easy to bundle home and auto through Progressive and save on your car insurance, which, of course, will go right into the lawn. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company affiliates and other insurers, discount not available in all stages situations.

The Mueller report. I'm Ed Donahue with an AP News Minute. President Trump was asked at the White House if special counsel Robert Mueller's Russia investigation report should be released next week when he will be out of town. I guess from what I understand, that will be totally up to the Attorney General. Maine, Susan Collins, says she would vote

for a congressional resolution disapproving of President Trump's emergency declaration to build a border wall, becoming the first Republican senator to publicly back it. In New York, the wounded supervisor of a police detective killed by friendly fire was among the mourners attending his funeral. Detective Brian Simonson was killed

as officer started shooting at a robbery suspect last week. Commissioner James O'Neill was among the speakers today at Simonson's funeral. It's a tremendous way to bear knowing that your choices will directly affect the lives of others. The cops like Brian don't shy away from it. It's the very foundation of who they are and what they do.

The robbery suspect in a man, police, they acted as his lookout, have been charged with murder. I'm Ed Donahue.