Retronauts - Retronauts Episode 208: Goodbye, Reggie Fils-Aime

Episode Date: March 22, 2019

On April 15, 2019, Nintendo of America President Reggie Fils-Aime will step down from his role, bringing about an end to an era. But who was Reggie, and why was his tenure at Nintendo so unique? On this episode of Retronauts, join Bob Mackey, Jeremy Parish, and Henry Gilbert as the crew examines the life and times of Reggie Fils-Aime during Nintendo's highest highs and lowest lows.

This week on Retronauts, our bodies are ready for Reggie. Hello, everybody. Welcome to another episode of Retronauts. I'm your host for this one, Bob. Mackey, and today's topic is Goodbye, Reggie Fizemae. That's right, Nintendo of America's president is stepping down after almost 15 years, or maybe just 15 years. Who can count

all those memories? Before we go on, who else is here with me today? Across for me, sitting across me in Berkeley is Ready to be reginated, Henry Yelbert. Oh, and who is on the line, special guest? It's me, Elton John, saying, goodbye Yellow Brick Reg. No, I'm Jeremy

Parrish. Jeremy is in his castle in North Carolina, phoning in for the first time? I do not phone in my work, Bob. East beats West. Yes, he's hanging out his work. Yes, phoning in. Right.

Hanging it out. Like laundry. You know, the Elton John reference is funny because his real name is Reginald too. That's right. Oh, my God. You're right. But, yes, we're doing this podcast because Reggie Fizema is retiring.

Have you heard the news, everybody? And he's been on our radar since the early 2000s, E3, 2004, to be specific. So that's when he made his big splash. into our worlds. And we normally don't celebrate executives on this podcast, but he was basically the non-Mario mascot of Nintendo for 15 years. So I want to talk about him before the reign of the evil Doug Bowser starts, villain of the Mario Kingdom. And as of this recording date, Reggie is officially leaving on April 15th, 2019, about a month from this recording date. So

we got a month of Reggie left. Got to save her every day of Reggie. But I want to know from everybody, Jeremy, you have been in the press the entire time for Reggie's entire tenure. I want to start with you. I want to talk about real-life Reggie encounters. Did you encounter Reggie in the wild? He seems like a very large and intimidating man, but he's sort of a friendly giant, if you will. But what are your experiences with him? He's a soft marshmallow-like man. No, you know, I started in the press in 2003, and he actually started working at Nintendo or at least, you know, stepped into the presidential role while I was covering Nintendo in the press. But I don't remember anything about the guy who was there before him because

who cared about Nintendo in 2003. I mean, I did, but not so much in the business side, but more unlike the, well, I hope they get out a few more games that I like before they go broke. So my first actual encounter with Reggie, I'm trying to remember exactly when it was. Once upon a time, the press went up to Nintendo headquarters in Redmond, Washington, to actually do Nintendo events, and then Nintendo wised up and opened up an office in the San Francisco Bay Area. So those days went away. But I took a lot of trips back then up to Seattle because I was the only one up who really cared about Nintendo at that point. And I know that I had a few meetings there that Reggie conducted.

I want to say the first time I really experienced the true sensation of Reggie was in 2005. I feel like it was kind of when they were in that interim between DS and we, like their launch of those two systems, where they were kind of proving that, hey, DS is not just this weird flash in a pan. It is a thing that matters and is good, and we're going to follow up with it, you know, with the we, which is also going to be weird and different and good. So I want to say my first, like, true, full frontal Reggie experience was at a meeting at NOAA headquarters late summer 2005, where he had a bunch of press gathered together, like 20 people at tables, and just started talking to us and started going about this thing called the Blue Ocean. And I was kind of like, what, what, what, what just happened here? But if I'm not mistaken, that's also the same meeting where they gave the press advanced copies of Mario Kart DS. And it might have been two separate events in the same room.

But I feel like this was the event where we got Mario Kart DS early, like two or three months early. It was crazy how early they gave it to us. And we were all like, oh, okay. blue ocean whatever this game is amazing so that is uh that is my impression he created favor by saying weird things and then giving us an amazing game i personally occupy the same space as reggie only a few times i too yeah um i only got to go to the last true nintendo press conference the nintendo land debacle i was there yes so we we both the nokia theater right yes yeah we both got to get the Reggie experience then, which as, you know, I had been watching him since I was just a 22-year-old forum dork who was so excited to watch any Nintendo press conference. And I was a Nintendo fanboy. I still am, I guess. I think I'm more impartial now. But, but I became the Nintendo person at the website I worked at after a few people left. I, I posited, I was always the top Nintendo fan, but I officially became the Nintendo, uh,

coverer at that point. And so not 2011, which, no, Nintendo land was 2012. So 2013, that was the first time I got to go to like a Nintendo E3 event that Reggie hosted. And he was like five feet from me. And he was, you know, his usual friendly self giving you his very like practice, but realistic PR speeches. But the, um, the realer Reggie I got to see randomly at E3, uh, I believe was both 2013 where he or 21 was yeah 2013 and 2014 2013 it was right after the evening Nintendo E3 thing they would do on like Wednesday evening or Tuesday evening and at that I got to watch I but someone who worked at Kotaku just ask him at the escalators guys didn't talk about fire a moment awakening where's fire at home awakening and then Reggie says it's coming out we are

that's a good question yes yeah he I felt like I was a rare time of him going off script and be like, you know what? I'm just going to announce it. We're putting it up in America. And then, but the closest I ever got to Reggie and was at Jeremy, you may have been there. Were you there for Star Fox? We, Wii U. Was this an event at the W Hotel

in San Francisco? No, this was at E3. This was like Sunday night before E3 of 2014. Oh, you know, I never got invited to the Sunday night things. Okay, well, so this is that cool. This was Sunday night where they show off Star Fox Wii, which we all know how that turned out.

But it was full of hope then. And that was also the only time I've ever asked a direct question to Shigiromiyamoto in person too. But anyway, Reggie was there. Of course he was there. And before they show you Star Fox Wii, they're like, come over for lunch or have

dinner at the catering. So it's us all eating with the regular Nintendo employee. ease that I just know from working with them enough. And also Chris Kohler was there too, a friend of this show. I'm not surprised. And I got to see Reggie walk up like in total

goofy dad mode acting like the Regenator character he had just played in one of their E3 pre three videos they did of a Mega 64. He's wearing his glasses like that's right. It's me, the Regenator. Give me your barbecue. He's real. It was a cute, funny

moment. And then after star fox we you as me and another person i forget who are leaving we're kind of lost in the convention center because you're not we're it's not fully open so we're having to leave like through like the um service exit or something and we can't find it and we're just like man where is it and then we just hear somebody say like oh it's over there just take her right and then i look and it it's the giant man reggie fezumay telling us how to exit uh the convention center so back again there just sparkles in the air like was he ever here So that was my most interactions with Reggie.

I mean, I was near him about maybe two or three other E3s where he was, like, announcing stuff, but those are the most, like, interpersonal Reggie moments of my life. I only saw him from the audience of that 2011 E3 conference. So he was safe from all of my questions. He was kept safe from all the other three questions. So I want to talk about some basic Reggie facts you need to know. Oh, wait. I didn't get to give my, I didn't realize we were doing all the anecdotes here.

Oh, oh, please. We could drop them throughout. but if you've got some good ones up front let's hear it my dumbest in-person uh anecdote about reggie was at an event in i guess it was 2010 um at the uh the one that i mentioned the w hotel in san francisco i guess it was man it was for some like a bunch of nintendo games uh you know they had announced dragon quest nine for the u.s so there were there was a bunch of journalists kind of just like chatting with them and i was there kind of in that group and i you know interjected a few times

but I did you know the question of Dragon Quest 9 came up and I you know gave him some business advice because that's what he's looking for from journal that game is really about sharing and networking and collaboration so you guys really have to get that out before Pax West

if you really want to take advantage of it and maximize you know the effectiveness of Dragon Quest 9 of the U.S. and he was very gracious about my incredibly insightful business information about a long-term plan that they had set up probably a year in advance and had no intention of changing based on the say-so of some dipship. I have no stories of professional embarrassment for this podcast. I'm sorry.

That is what I've got. And then the closest non-encounter I've ever had with him was street passing him in the bathrooms at E3. If you know the E3 Convention Center, the L.A. Convention Center. Nintendo's booth is always at the back of, I think, West Hall. Yeah. And there are, you know, restrooms back there. And so they're just like, you know, trough-style urinals. They're the worst. But I was leaving the restroom after watching my hands, and he walked past me. And I stepped out of the bathroom and looked at my 3DS, which this was probably like 2013, 2014, so I still carried it everywhere and always street past and was very meticulous about clearing out my street passes. And I looked, and yes, I got his actual E3, or his actual, sorry,

his actual me, as opposed to the one that you get like as a gold special guest. Yeah. And his actual me does not look like the one that he shares. I have that. As his official PR curated me. I forgot. I also have his me as well. I street passed him too. I, I, uh, with some pride, I can say I never used a bathroom at E3 because I never wanted to. I held it. Do you just like die or something? I held it. Do you hold it all day and well I can hold it in and I also dehydrated myself and didn't need anything. You put your health at risk. That's not that's not the way to do it. Like I just don't do what I did. Okay. Let me be

you need your tactical gaming diaper for E3. I've said it before. Uh, but yes, I did, I did street pass. So my, I mean, to really let you know what a fucking dork I was in, in between Nintendo appointments while I was in like their press area at E3 I was just clearing my street pass over and over like there's got to be

other Nintendo folks here I want to street pass all of them clear street pass clear street pass I obviously dreamed as like getting Awada or Miyamoto I only got Reggie

and Takashi Tizuka that's all good I've gotten them too I think they were the only ones who cared enough to carry their their 3DSs around Tezica just makes himself a Kappa. Like, it's really cute. I like that.

So I do want to talk about basic Reggie Fad. He's got an interesting life, especially where he came from. So he was born in 1961 to, in the Bronx, to Haitian immigrants, very appropriate for working in Nintendo. Their famous character, Mario, is an immigrant character from New York. That's true. So there you have it. In terms of academics, he got a BA and applied economics from Cornell in 1983.

And from there, he was selected to be a candidate for the Procter & Gamble brand management program, which typically drew from the MBA program. So no master's degree for Reggie. He went right into the world of business where he worked in their food and beverage division until 1991 when he went to Pizza Hutts with some major pizza innovations people. We're talking about the Bigfoot.

We're talking about the New Yorker with one pound of cheese. I watch that commercial. They are so proud of having one pound of cheese on a pizza. So is Reggie responsible for Pizza Hut's transformation from this kind of like cozy family restaurant where you would go and sit down and have a meal to whatever it is now, just like the quick grab it and go trash pizza purveyors?

I think so. I mean, I think his entire thing that he does as a businessman is shifting demographics to increase profitability. And that's what he did with every place he went to. So pizza was the cozy bistro style dining for middle income people. Yeah, it was like a step down from, you know, shakies, but it was still pretty decent back when I was a kid.

Maybe the pizza sucked. at least the atmosphere was okay, but yeah, I wouldn't, I wouldn't want to go there now and, like, sit and eat. I've, I've done that within the past five years, and it was a dark experience. I have not back. I was in Florida, so who knows, maybe that was. I think you can't go back to Pizza Hut, but no, the Bigfoot pizza was basically like the most pizza you could order at once, just like a giant, like, that was my teenage years, just like constant sleepovers and constant friend parties with just a giant sheet pizza. Bigfoot is a perfect sleepover pizza If you're in your early, if you're in between years as a boy, and it fits perfectly with video games.

Yes, a lot of N64, a lot of eating Bigfoot pizzas at that time period. How big was the Bigfoot pizza? Because when I was a kid, there was a pizza place that served the monster pizza. It was a kind of a semi-local chain. But that thing was like, I don't know how people fit in their cars. I don't have the exact measurements, but it was the size of like your normal sofa cushion that you set on. I think it was called like two feet of pizza. Like I think or 18 inches.

I think it's 18 inches by 12 inches, I believe it was. But I also, I can just see the Bigfoot mascot in my head right here. And well, when you talk about his shifting demographics thing like that was pizza innovations. Like that was pizza huts brand under him. Like Bigfoot was just one of many like, well, it's another four months. They're going to try a different type of pizza. And I believe stuff. Yeah, it's just, it's such a like, I feel like they were engaged in

a race to the bottom with Little Caesars, like how much pizza can we give people for a very small amount of money? No, I'm glad you mentioned that because I think things like Bigfoot really predicted Little Caesars where all the like Applebee's and Chili's and everything like that, they were in major trouble after the economic recession, but Little Cesar is like, we'll give you the worst pizza ever for $5. It'll feed your family. You won't like it. And you can just show up and get it. Like, it's hot and ready. Here you go. Just coming. I mean, also during his time, that is when Pizza Hut shifted to be more of the delivery chain it is. It's like a hole in the wall that can fit a front counter and a pizza oven.

And that's kind of it. Like to use the little space as possible. I think it wouldn't be wrong to say that the Bigfoot is the Nintendo DS of pizza. Oh, my God. But don't try folding it. Big disaster. So, basically, from 1983 to 2001, he worked in food. That was the majority of his life working in business.

But in 2001, he went to VH1 where he was their president of marketing and he increased their ratings. by almost 30% by shifting to a younger demographic. I think that was the era of the nostalgia shows, maybe. I love the blanks, 100%. Yeah, that's, I think near the end of his tenure in 03 was when it really started. But it was just a lot of like commentary on commentary, like the podcasts of their day, really. Yeah, I think. Yeah, what year was this that he moved over to VH1?

Early 2000s. Oh, okay. Because I think like VH1 was like, that's the boomer station. and MTV was the Gen X station. They wanted, like, Gen Xers to graduate into VH1. I think that was his idea. Yeah, when I was a kid, VH1 was the channel you turned to if you wanted to see a Phil Collins video. You knew that every 30 minutes, there was going to be a Phil Collins video.

That's the demographic there. You can set your watch to it. But we do talking Simpsons. In the episode of The Simpsons, where they still cable, Homer is pointing out the virtues of cable. He says MTV for the kids and VH1 for us. In 1991, 10 years before that, that was the episode. the idea of VH1. TV for boomers. You know, I think under Reggie's era, when you talk about demographics changes, he knew more people had aged out of MTV. And so he needed to be more

welcoming to them, not the imagined people who aged out of MTV in the early 1990s, which had been their demographics. So yeah, they definitely made VH1 more inviting. I mean, also in his era, well, it predated him, but behind the music, too. Like, that was a huge thing for VH1. Yeah, it really was. So let's get on to Nintendo and Reggie. Hang on, Bob. I have to rewind just a little bit. Now, when Henry compared the Bigfoot pizza to the DS, you said, don't fold it. Are you talking about the pizza?

Yes. Because I think you're going to get a lot of angry messages from fans of New York pizza who will tell you that the only way to properly eat a piece of floppy, mediocre pizza is a phone number. Oh, my God, shots are being fired. No, Jeremy, you fold the New Yorker pizza. That's the only way to put that pound of cheese into a tube, just cram down your esophagus. But the big foot, but yes, the... It's like a canolae. The big foot is more of a casserole, or it's like a facacia bread pizza.

Oh, okay, so it is like little Caesar's pizza. Okay, never mind. It's very flat and very square and hard, hard to fold. Yes. So let's move on to Nintendo and Reggie, because that's the entire point of this podcast. And he was hired by Nintendo in December of 2003 to be their executive vice president of sales and marketing. And eventually he worked his way up to be C.O.O. and president in 2006. And he replaced Kimishima, who is the current president, which I didn't even know he was there for four years. Like, he was such a non-entity. It was so nothing. Well, I mean, let's talk about Nintendo of America in the pre-Reggie years.

I mean, that's what I was saying is like, I have no idea who he replaced because no one cared. That was news to me. Like, the current president was the president before Reggie. I had learned it and forgot it because I remember when Kimishima. was made the president of NCL, that's when I found out that he used to be the president of NOA, but I had completely forgotten it. And I forgot it again. Yeah, likewise. But yeah, no, I mean, in the 90s, from the 80s into the 90s, it was Aracawa, Manaro Alacawa was founder of Nintendo of America, the, you know, a good boss, but also like the son-in-law, the hated son-in-law of Yamauchi, it seemed like Yamauchi didn't seem to like him that much. But

Arcawa was the boss and you know my guess is that he probably saw he wasn't going to get the role Wada would get and so he left he quit but even when he worked there the guy who they interviewed at least in magazines in the 90s when I read them was

Howard Lincoln yeah to give a white face to this Japanese company because Japan is scary to Americans especially back then so Reggie being the new guy Nintendo made his splash at E3 2004 with an introduction that he did not come up with but it was the best

way for him to introduce himself to the new audience when Nintendo really needed to fight and Henry please play that clip of Reggie and his swears his filthy mouth. My name is Reggie I'm about kicking ass, I'm about taking names and we're about making games.

There you have it. It goes straight to Star Fox Adventures dinosaur planet. I forgot that bit. And that was a big E3 for Nintendo. It was then turning things around a bit. E3 2003 was basically what, Pac-Man versus... The worst. Yeah. The worst. Yeah. And I read a Kotaku article

about that press conference, and what we're not hearing, you might hear a little bit of them in that clip. There was a heckler throughout the entire conference. A heckler. It was a much different time for the Games Press when you could just be the in-room heckler, I guess. I wonder who that was now. You know, honestly, I think I would prefer a heckler to the guys who, like, give a standing

ovation with their fucking beat is in their hands. All these Sony fanboys that are trucked in. But, no, no, hecklers are bad. I'm just, I'm kidding. So the intro, not Roger's idea. Nintendo needed to be aggressive. They were not doing well. They were still profitable. But if you go back to our GameCube episode that we did

a while ago, you'll see like, compared to Sony and Microsoft how poorly they were doing in comparison to the competition. My goodness. Yeah, I mean, like the GBA was getting older. The GameCube was a big old flop. Their worst selling system, I think,

until we, sure. But also, yeah, it was just seen as like old had. And it also is seen as like, well, you have these two giant corporations in Microsoft and Sony, Nintendo's just left out. Sega just died. Nintendo's next. That was just the feeling. And also Nintendo was just feeling like old. They didn't know what they wanted. Like they lost rare. They, so you didn't have the weird Britishy rare games that had violence in it. They weren't getting the as many exclusives as anybody else. And then you also were like, you didn't know wind waker. You were kind of like,

do I like Windwaker? That's how people felt. It was just a weird, weird time for Nintendo. And then on top of that, their E3 press conference of O3 was like just a bummer town. If you were into the horse race of the systems, it was bad. They ended it with what Miyamoto thought was a

really cool idea. Pac-Man versus. They got Pac-Man. They got the creator of Pac-Man to come back and make a Pac-Man game with Nintendo. That's an amazing idea. If you know that information. Yeah. That game was so much fun, but not what you need to sell a system. So at this point in time, more people are getting online, of course. There's more broadband internet. And these conferences are now,

you can watch them. Maybe not live in 2004. I was watching it live. I watched it. Wow, I didn't know you could do that. You IG and insider you. But Nintendo needed a non-stuffy businessman on stage, and Reggie was the perfect person for that because he is charismatic, but he's not charismatic in a sleazy way. Like, when I was thinking about Reggie, I think he, he's a good salesman, but there's still a bit of dorky awkwardness that makes him endearing. I mean, he's way more charismatic than I could ever be, but there's still like a little bit of realness to him that makes him seem sincere. I don't feel like he's trying to steal my wallet like every boss at EA who's telling me about it. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, he never got a like a Jay Allard makeover.

And I think that's for the best. Like, you know, Microsoft was, you know, Jay Allard, you're kind of this, you know, slumpy, middle-aged balding guy, lose some weight, wear a blazer over. a hooded sweatshirt, talk cool to the kids, you know, get down, talk to them on their level, rap with him. That never happened with Reggie.

He was like, I'm here to make dad jokes and be goofy. Take that as you will. I'm sure. And he was never afraid to, you know, like so concerned about his, his cool image

that he couldn't be in some sort of completely ridiculous video skit or something. And, you know, all of those like him getting toast by Bowser popping out of a 3DS or something. Like, those were super endearing. None of the other major hardware makers would do that. Like, can you imagine, you know, the president of Microsoft or Sony taking part

in one of those, like, you know, like college student skits? No, that would never happen. Guging around with that stuff. Like, I can't imagine that. Or Don Metrick, that horrible loser. I want to dunk on him later. Let's talk about him later. But that E3, that E3 2004 was huge too because like him, it's dumb to say it.

And it's just, it's saying him, he says ass. Whoopty do. But when, especially if you were a touchy Nintendo fan who is being told on forums that you like baby games for babies to then have a cool dude on stage who's like tough and saying ass. Like it felt, it felt cool at the time. It's like having the cool dad to let you drink at home. What I believe. Well, Reggie could totally beat up your uncle Jay Allard. Exactly. Well,

and E3, 2004, like, you begin with Reggie, and you end with... Twilight Princess. Twilight Princess. Yeah. Like, so it was a totally different company for fans to look at them. Like, it was, it was a huge turning point at 04. I think, too, one of the first things that I really

an underrated moment in Reggie his first time on stage was that he wanted to surprise people, like his, and one more thing that he always did. And his first one, I remember, I believe it was that the 04-1. He pulls out the Game Boy Micro, and he's like, and we have our new system right here, actually, and pulls it out of his front pocket, the Game Boy Micro, and he's just standing still letting people take pictures of it, like, and the Game Boy Micro is nothing. And but... And we've made 14 of

these. But that's what's so cool, too, that he made, like, Nintendo in 2003 would have announced a Game Boy Micro with a lame video and think, and not known how to present it. Reddy's like, let me hold this up and make it sound like this 4-3 packaging of the Game Boy Advance is actually amazing. Yeah, I mean, they had the good sense to put their tiniest system ever in the hand of their largest executive ever. That's great. That you're like, that's like a little chicklet of a game system. I could swallow that by mistake. It's a choking hazard that came by doing correct.

But, I mean, I don't want to discount Iwada, of course. I think having Iwada and Reggie together, they were like a real power team on business in terms of business and also what gamers like and what a gamer would do. Reggie is not a non-gamer, but Awada like grew up in the shit. Like he basically programmed stuff. I mean, he went to the entire. He slept at the office and programmed games. Like he lived the life of a sad programmer and he loved it. He loved fixing games.

And, you know, this is this is all just guessing. but I got this sense that O'Wada respected Reggie's opinion more than most Americans were treated by the company too. I think that I you know you definitely get a real sense of

and I still think Reggie had to deal with that of NCL in Kyoto makes all the decisions and then Nintendo of America and Nintendo of Europe just deal with what they're told but I think Reggie had more input than others before him had. I

Like, I don't think Howard, Howard Lincoln had as much input as them. They were both a similar ages. I imagine working with Awada was much easier than working with Yamauchi. Yeah. No one wants to work with him. But so obviously, uh, knowing history, Reggie turned the company around in a way that was great for Nintendo, but, and we all lived through this and I think we're still living through it.

Uh, he also caused a lot of anxiety with the quote unquote gamers who were worried like, oh, we're losing space in this thing that's ours. Like, that's not a real game. The DS isn't a real system. The Wii is just a toy. Like, he was causing anxiety and people by targeting a new demographic when, frankly, if you're old enough, you knew, like, oh, my mom played Nintendo. My grandma played Game Boy. Like, you knew these things were not always exclusively the domain of men, but the 90s made us think, like, these are boy things.

These are men things. But Reggie's like, no, no, these were not always like that. Yeah, the Wii was as scary as, can you imagine a comic book movie about a female character? That's just terrifying. Who would ever? it would never make money that's for sure certainly not no i yeah i think yeah it was

it was always the fear of losing losing ground to the casuals to think that and that also as uh well and for the kids i think that led to a love hate relationship from nintendo fanboys too with reggie at least during that era because they only wanted

a Zelda game that looked better than uncharted or somebody else is like It was just that horse race, you know? There's a great video online of Jeff Gertsman of Giant Bomb, losing his mind over someone complaining about the graphics in the Licks Awakening remake. He's like, we've been through this. We've done this already. Please.

Like, really? Fuck you. Yeah, that's a great video. So I want to read a quote from Reggie that explains his philosophy about the Wii and the DS. He says, quote, we found that women in older consumers, meaning those past their mid-20s, that's old people, folks. That's me saying that, by the way.

Can you imagine being past your mid-20s? God. We're very receptive when these products were presented in the way that would interest them. A surprising number of seniors are even playing these games now. Our goal was to bring back gaming to the masses. The stories we have heard about consumers playing games as a family or with friends totally shudder the stereotype of video games being a solitary, reclusive experience. And that's why you would see the Wii on the Today Show and things like that. Like he was saying, look, like these are not scary. Here's a button you can press. You wave the thing around. It's not intimidating at all. And you can do this and not feel shame.

Yeah, I mean, in I guess 2009, 2010, I went to spend Thanksgiving with a friend of my wife who lives in New York, and we had Thanksgiving dinner with their family, and this is a pair of elderly Vietnamese immigrants, and he likes video games. He's going to love playing wee bowling with us. And that is what we did for Thanksgiving. We played we bowling. And these old people kicked my eyes. ass. That is proof. I mean, that is proof of the power of this message and this philosophy. Yeah, well, the packaging was a big part of it too, like it. That wand with just one button in it, it, you know, people are terrified of how many buttons are out of controller. You hand them one, they don't know what to do. It doesn't. It doesn't make sense unless you want to dedicate time to learning it. And when you're already thinking like video games aren't for me, then you're feeling even more put out by it. To bring back, the comic book metaphor

Jeremy was doing there. It's how it's the the controllers were as exclusionary feeling as a comic book store is to people. And every issue is in its 500s. You have no idea where to start. And yeah, like you said, Bob,

he was changing the demographics. Or also like from a pure business sense, if you can expand your market and have more people buy stuff, then you make more money and are more successful. So that blue ocean, like he, and they could still make games under his vision they still made games for losers like us

reclusive weirdos we still got super mario galaxy which is until odyssey was my favorite 3d mario game like about two uh actually galaxy two is my favorite there yes yeah but uh i'm glad you came around on Thank you. Thank you. But, yeah, we'd still get those games, but, I mean, there were definitely stumbles under Reggie, too, for sure. Like, the Wii U was that. Yeah, I mean, we could talk about that. So Reggie did preside over a period of failure before the Switch.

So the Wii U and the 3DS, obviously 3DS did much better than the Wii, but it's a world of difference between how well they were doing between that. and the we era and I honestly I respect him it's hard to say I respect an executive in this case I can because he did not flee the company when things were going bad uh other executives I mean his his specific role he was brought on to shepherd the company into the right direction I mean he he got into it knowing like this company is in the shit like things cannot get too much worse from where we are now so so that was that was really his uh his mission there yeah I'm sure like after the we and ds era any company would hire him at like five times of salarate nintendo just like that is the guy who made the wea success let's get him and i'm sure

he had offers but he stayed with them through the 3ds and the wu era before you know the switch brought them back up to oh oh i see what you yeah my bad i forgot that they had this catastrophic failure in between we and uh switch the switch effectively erased i've already put it out of my mind i forgot what was we i still have my wu hooked up it's still good The switch is secretly a men-in-black memory eraser, and it makes you forget about the Wii U. But I want to say, again, I want to point this out, he stayed. People like Don Matrick, the Xbox one was a failure because he was packing his golden parachute while they were building the system. And he just crashed landing into Zinga where he blow that up and then go to God knows where.

Don Matrick, I'm calling you out. You're a loser. He sucks. He does suck. No, I mean, there are many bad executives, but that is just like, that is like most executives. Like, I'm not invested in this company. I'm here to make my money and get out while the getting's good. And I feel like Reggie was more of an honest and good human being.

But I'm like, I'm going to fight through this. I'm going to stay through this. And he's leaving when Nintendo is very successful again. Yeah, you know, I also want to be clear to listeners that corporations are not your friend, in my opinion. There is no good executive, blah, blah, blah, blah. But this could just be me being a Nintendo fanboy. But I do like Reggie more than most of them. I think it was a real test of character for him.

I was so certain when I was in the games press and the Wii was doing bad, I was like, I'm just counting the seconds. Any day if I got a press release that Reggie Fizema had stepped down and replaced by somebody else, never would have been surprised, not once. Because the feeling in, it is on the Japanese side of things, you don't quit. Like you are a life or at a job. That is not expected of you at all in America and no one would blame him for leaving. Not only that, but like this is old information, but in.

the David Seth's game over book. Howard Lincoln has this quote that always stuck with me. He's like, you don't work in Nintendo to become super rich. Like, you're paid more of a Japanese executive salary, which is a shitload of money, but not ridiculous, inflated overpayment that being an executive money. I was thinking of Bobby Codic. Exactly. You don't, which, if all you care about is money and you're like a complete monstrous sociopath that lays off 800 people to give yourself a bonus, if you're that type of person, person, then you leave the second Nintendo's in trouble and just hop to another frying pan. But, and that I thought that Reggie would do that. That he didn't when that opportunity

clearly existed for him does show he's one of the better ones and of executives. Nintendo, how many studios do they close? How many layoffs do they do? Like, it's pretty rare Nintendo announces they close a studio. So, yeah, that, uh, that did, in retrospect, that gives me way more appreciation for Reggie because I doubt, I mean, I'm sure he was paid great. I'd take Reggie's money in a heartbeat that money he was being paid. But I highly

doubt he was getting the kind of money that other executives in America get. Not to mention the like he was, Oada took a pay cut when they were in trouble. Like so maybe he wasn't even getting a raise at that time. Who knows? Could be. But I want to say that

it's also one of the rare cases in where an executive comes from a different business and actually makes things better. They're not hired because they're a friend or because of their reputation. Their outside perspective actually helps. They're not like, I'm just figuring things out here. I'm the boss, but what do you guys do again?

I mean, that different perspective helped Reggie turn the company around because he was not thinking, like, we only target men. Video games are for these people. He's like, I market food for everybody. Let's take what I know and make that apply to video games. Yeah. Well, there was plenty of precedent for Reggie coming in

and just torpedoing the company. company. Like when he was, when he was installed, you know, when he was announced, and I heard that he was formerly a food executive, the first thing I thought of was John Scully at Apple, who took over Apple when Steve Jobs was ousted in the 80s. And John Scully came in as a former Pepsi executive. Like he did the Pepsi challenge and stuff like that and really made the brand big. But he had no idea what the hell to do with computers. And he watched over Apple as it just kind of went from being like the golden child of computers to this sad, outdated relic that charged too much for software for hardware that no one wanted. And I really like to me, I kind of thought, this is this is going to be the end. This is not good. This is this is a guy who is basically the new John Scully. But I was wrong. I'm happy to have been wrong.

Oh, I also, you know, I'm glad you brought that up, Jeremy, because I'm. I was, you reminded me of something I wanted to say too that he, I had a similar fear that he was going to be something related to wrestling. It's in... Oh, here we go.

No, it's fine. I want to hear that. Is he the jobber? No, no. So in professional wrestling, there was the only term I know. There was the company WCW, which was owned by Turner.

And they constantly had different corporate suits put in charge. You didn't know anything about wrestling. And one of the worst of those suits was a man named Jim Hurd, who was coming from pizza hut and like everybody thought he didn't know what the hell he was doing because he just knew pizza he didn't know a very specialized business like pro wrestling and that I think too I had

a little bit of that fear with with Reggie and like what's what does this guy know about games he's not he's also not one of like my beloved Japanese game developers who can do no wrong like that that was that was I felt about Reggie I think but I also do think looking back and like Reggie had power he definitely had power but he didn't have enough power to truly sink the company just through like a move like

Yeah you still work under a parent company Yeah NCL still called the shots I mean also you could really feel just from the press side of things a tension between Nintendo of America Nintendo of Europe like they I don't think those two worked together too well in my time

in the games press and so you basically had like these two different children of NCL kind of running things how they both want to and trying to see eye to eye, which Reggie didn't even have control of that, you know? That's true. So Reggie was

from the very first second of his life as a Nintendo employee, memed to hell and back. Like, that very first appearance at E3, he was called The Regenator, he was being photoshopped in the things, turning the videos, and he would sort of lean into that and be like weirdly proud of it. And one of his most meme moments, I do want to play this clip,

we'd be remiss if we didn't play it. The classic My Body is Ready clip, which would go on to define Reggie. It was them showing off the Wii balance board in 2007. Let's play the clip of Reggie getting on the balance board, just to give you guys context, for this immortal line. ...is do a what we call a body check on somebody. So today, I think we'll do it with Reggie. My body is ready. Hi.

Then, then, Okay, Reggie, please stand on the wee balance board. So are you wearing just a light layer of clothing? Heavy clothing. So he's poking fun at his own weight. I forgot that heavy clothing. That's funny too. You forget, you forget how awkward that line is

because he's gone on to say in other context, but he's like, my body is ready. And just silence until people nervously, start laughing like that. Were you there for that Jeremy? Yeah. I must have been because I was there for all those press conferences starting in like 2007, 2008.

So yep. But that would go on. But they all kind of blend together in my brain. I mean, that might have been the same year that I sat really close to tack Fuji. Yeah, my body got sucked. I can't even remember. Something got stuck. You will be sucked.

Is what he says. Yes, that's right. We were all sucked. that classic, classic line. Not as classic as my body is ready, but I don't think I ever heard the original my body is ready until doing research. It's like, that's where it came from. Wow. But, well, here's the thing. We'll wrap up with this. Like, I feel like the Switch is doing well. But with Iwada now passed away and Reggie Gone, both the East and West Side's in Nintendo are lacking president with charisma and sincerity. I mean, Kimishima, wait, he's he no longer. So he's out, right? He's not president.

Yeah, I don't even know who that is anymore. But I guess Yoshaki Koizum, is sort of being the Nintendo of Japan spokesperson, and Doug Bowser possibly could be the Nintendo of America guy doing Reggie stuff. He's hosted some small things. If you look back on it now, the last three years, he's made appearances that feel almost like Reggie is priming people to know who that's... They were grooming him. Yes.

And then at last, Reggie could say, my Bowser is ready. Oh, God. But I mean, like, this could be nostalgia or just rose tinted glasses or whatever, or goggles, whatever that's expression is. But I feel like the team of Reggie and Awada presenting things was just so ideal. They were so likable and so, like, personable that it's going to be very hard to fill those shoes. Like, I think Koizumi is doing okay, but he still seems like a little not right for the role. And I think the Spaltoon guy, like dressing up in the lab coat and stuff, that's kind of fun.

But I don't know if that could sustain an entire press conference. Well, he needs to be empowered, though, too. I think, you know, it helped that in the 2000, starting in 2000, 2001, there was an ascendancy of like, Miyamoto moved up to the boardroom, Takeshi Tezuka also moved up, I Wada took over, and Reggie Fizumay took over to America. And I don't think this next generation, like, I feel like Reggie was more forceful in his making his presence known and being part of things. Like, can Bowser be that guy? Or is that? Is that, there's somebody like Oada over there

who can give space to Reggie or listen to Reggie? Like there is, there's that question for the future of Nintendo without Reggie. Like, but he's, you know, hey, he deserves a retirement. He's 57. Relax. He's made so many pizzas. Jeremy, what do you think about the future

of Nintendo from like a, a spokesperson angle? It's, it's yeah, maybe that's why they've gone to Nintendo directs because they just they don't have the stage presence anymore. I don't know. Like, I haven't gotten a read on Doug Bowser, but if, you know, video, if a video game's business were a sitcom, or not a sitcom, but like a romantic comedy,

he would be like the uncle of the main character who, you know, when, when the main character goes through the obligatory heartbreak before he and the girl get back together, he'd be the one offering advice on like, well, let me tell you about my sad sack. that's that's the impression i get he's like a minor minor sad sack character and a romantic comedy he needs to he needs to step forward and prove that he's not yeah i mean uh my my opinion is i think they have they have two really good spokespeople in a kit ellis and christie yang who do their they're great stuff but i feel like uh from my own perspective like i like what they do and the stuff that they do now but i i would like i think you need someone in authority or someone

more authority to be presenting those big things well so yeah here here's the impression I got just from working a lot over the years with Nintendo PR is that people who worked with him really liked Reggie and I think in Nintendo of America there are things that

people at levels below Reggie they are not allowed to do and you're not allowed to say or you have to send like five emails to Japan and I think Reggie had like the special ability to be like if this gets heat with Japan I will take the

heat. But we need to say this now and not wait for Japan to agree to this. Or Japan would never do stuff with Mega 64 to do a silly video to get people ready for Nintendo Treehouse Live. But Reggie can not only star in them, but also probably be one of the main boosters in meetings who can tell people like, hey, trust me, we should do this. And like his, him leaning into the comedy of his character also gave approval to Nintendo of America to loosen up just a little bit. I think so, yeah. Yeah, his Nintendo direct presence was just so fun. Like, he was, he was like the Walt Disney hosting the Disney Hour on ABC telling you like,

oh, hi, welcome to my office. I'm a real person. And you at least believe it a little bit. And he did a Davey Crockett cap. I mean, his, his amoeboes on his desk were his Dravey Crockett cap. Or he put on a Mario cap several times. Yeah, and there were like bananas on his desk at one point. Well, if you want to make comparisons to, like, you can even just do it with Nintendo.

I remember covering Nintendo of Direx with my UK counterparts at the website I worked at. They got none of this Reggie fun because Nintendo of Europe directs were hosted by their president, Satoru Shabata. Oh, I was going to do a British accent. It was actually, that's why I was quick to like, No, it was actually a Japanese transplant. There'll be one new Mario game this year. It will be called Mario Adventure 3. But isn't that interesting, too, the Nintendo of Europe.

Like, they had the classic Japanese business model of, no, we'll just send somebody from Japan to work the business here. I mean, that was the previous two presidents of Nintendo of America. And Shabana seemed nice and all. He wasn't a great host. He seemed fine. Yeah. And though now they actually got a new president last year, I forgot. So it is now a Frenchman, Stefan Bollet.

okay so uh good good luck step on with all your videos but yeah so actually they're all going through these transformations but you see reggie in those directs like his presence made a difference it didn't feel like a real direct if you didn't see reggie in them not to not to sound like too much of a fawning fan boy uh and the last thing i'll say about reggie and i think his impact on it i don't know if you can directly credit this to him but if you've paid attention to competitive fighting games, Evo 2013 or 14, they were going to have

melee at it. And it was a huge deal. Malay was going to be on the main stage and it was going to be on ESPN or some network. Then Nintendo in a very classic Nintendo of Japan type move. Hey, they're watching out games for free. Yep. You can't do that. They don't like melee anymore either.

They don't want people to stream melee. It was taken away. It was a huge negative for them, especially for a company that's trying to sell a new Smash Brothers game. that year. And so then they did a big reverse on it and Reggie was one of the top dudes

talking about specifics of the fighting game community for Smash. Like he did in jokes about the smash fighting community. So if it wasn't his call, he at the very least supported that reversal on it. And Nintendo reversing their position on Smash and Evo

was a major, major moment for the fighting game community and a big positive for Nintendo. Everybody figured There's like, oh, it's no fun Nintendo. They're not going to let a stream. They don't understand current day. Like, Smash 4 and also Smash Ultimate. Those totally understand streaming and competitive sports.

And, like, they lean into that. And I think Reggie had at least something to do with that. That happened under his watch. And I think he could boost for that to the Japanese team guys all in Kyoto. Yeah, it seems like a style. But, yeah, that's our little discussion on Reggie. Thanks again to Jeremy and Henry for being part of this. And Henry, this is your idea.

So thank you. When Reggie announces retirement, you were like, we got to do an episode about this. And I didn't know if there's much to say what there is. Like, this is all very important stuff. And he kind of saved Nintendo, I mean, with the help of many other talented people. But his marketing expertise really, really helped. Yeah, he was an expert at giving. What I'll miss about Reggie is that he was an expert at giving answers that seem like they answered your questions but gave you nothing.

But he thought you had a big exclusive. Like, I remember him either like on talking to Jeff Keely. and Jeff asking him like kind of a tough question like so what about Metroid's like Metroid's an important thing to our business and we're really looking forward to it you know it's one of my favorite games Jeff and I'm a big fan of games in general you know and you're just like okay he answered my question and then you walk away like no he didn't wait a minute that he's gone but he was I mean that is media trained right there yeah as as a press member I can appreciate that he was very good

Stephen Totel but he also wouldn't give you bullshit like also I someone asked him about diversity in games too and he went there of saying like you know i'm a non-white executive and i try to make uh this is paraphrasing he's but he talked about how he is not a reggie talks about how he's a person of color and he wanted nintendo of america to be inviting in that way too and so i i think he got i think he understood stuff a lot better than a lot of other execs did or at the very least he tricked me into thinking he cared which isn't that's the point of all business right yes uh so hats off to you reggie I hope you're enjoying your Pena Coladas and Bigfoot pizzas on the beach and take care of yourself.

We want you to live very long. But Jeremy, thanks for being on this remote podcast with us. Yeah, it's dinner time here on the East Coast, so I'm going to go get some mediocre pizza. Oh, that sounds good. Before you go, though, I'll do the Retronauts plugs. Can you please tell us things you're working on, like, videos and books and whatnot? I know you've got a lot of stuff going on outside of the podcast. Sure, yeah.

I'm doing all kinds of crazy stuff, some of which I can't even talk about yet. But, of course, you could find me on Twitter as GameSpite and at Retronauts.com. And you can also find my video projects every Wednesday. I do a video retrospective on a different game chronologically in its release order on a different platform. Right now I'm doing mostly Virtual Boy. And believe it or not, Virtual Boy as a piece of hardware might have been. But the games were actually mostly pretty good. And it's been interesting to gaze at them through eyes unclouded by hate.

So you can check that out on my YouTube channel or look up virtual. Boy works. Yeah, so far I've published two books on the NES and two books on Game Boy, and they're both lovely, hardcover, full-color books with original high-resolution screen grabs and photography by me along with the text. So those are lovely. Just check them out. They're great. That's fangamer.net. Indeed it is, Bob. Excellent, Jeremy. Thanks for joining us. So that's it for this week's episode of Retronauts. And by the way, we are on Patreon and supported by very kind patrons, just like you kind listeners out there. So if you want to help the show and get every episode ad free and a week ahead of time,

please go to patreon.com slash retronauts. And for three bucks a month, you can have just that. And you can support the show. We've been going on independently for almost six years. So we'd like to keep going on and on and on and on and on. So please go to patreon.com slash retronots. There are many incentives after that $3 level. Check them out, everybody.

Henry, you and I work together on so many things. Yes. Yeah, you know, I'm just going to sit back and lay you all. these plugs. Well, you know, I love doing retronauts because it's where I can still let my video game fandom fly, especially for Nintendo. I love doing that, but full-time

job is me and Bob do Talking Simpsons and what a cartoon. A pair of weekly podcasts where we celebrate animation and all as wondrous forms, be it a chronological exploration of the Simpsons from the first episode or a different animated series each week

where we focus on one specific episode of it. For our series, we've even done a couple of What a Cartoons with Jeremy Parrish, our co-host on this one, like The Max and the GI Joe. And also, if you love hearing me and Bob talk with this kind of room tone, boy, then you'll love these What a Cartoon and Talking Simpsons podcast, which are also supported by a Patreon that you will get numerous bonuses if you sign up at the $5 level, which includes our just launched Talk King of the Hill. So not only could you hear us talk about a different Simpson episode of each week, a different animated series each week

for the entire first season of King of the Hill. One week at a time, you can listen to that if you go to the $5 a month level at patreon.com slash Talking Simpsons. Please check it out. It's what helps me and Bob record in finery here. But thanks again for listening to Retronauts, folks. We'll see you on Monday for a brand new episode. Thanks again. Thank you. Thank you.