Retronauts - Retronauts Episode 306: Monkey Island Mailbag

Episode Date: June 22, 2020

We've got a mighty haul of listener comments and questions from our last three Monkey Island episodes, so this week we've brought on series expert Nina Matsumoto (Thimbleweed Park cover artist and designer at Fangamer) once again to help us make some informed responses! Plus, after months of sitting on them, we finally read and respond to your requested input on our video game apparel episode! And to wrap up this installment, we chat about Dolores: A Thimbleweed Park Mini-Adventure, Monkey Island creator Ron Gilbert's quarantine gift to us all. So listen in and remain indoors, lest ye wantin' to be keelhauled! Be sure to pre-order Nina's newest book: Sparks! Double Dog Dare.

Retronauts is part of the Greenlit Podcast Network. For more information, please go to greenlitpodcast.com. This week on Retronauts, I'm selling these fine leather mailbags. Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of Retronauts. I'm your host for this one, Bob Mackie, and today's topic is our Monkey Island mailbag because to date we have covered the first three Monkey Island games in our LucasArts mini-series and we rarely have time to respond to your comments. And in one case, I asked for comments but rudely never read any of them.

Actually, we just didn't have time on our Monkey Island two episodes. So that is why I brought a special guest on who has been. been on every Monkey Island episode so far. Hello, special guest. Hello, it's me, the Monkey Island and Bob Mackie like her, Nina Matsumoto. Wow. Now, you have to tell me which do you like more. This has to be on the air. On the record. We'll discuss this later. Oh, my God. I can't let listeners hear this. Well, yes, Nina is back, as always, and she has been on a number of these episodes. She is our Monkey Island correspondent. And she'll be on at least two more Monkey Island episodes because we still have to do Escape for Monkey Island. And also the tales of Monkey Island

series, which is now at least a decade old or possibly more. I think it's 11 years old at this point. Oh man. Really? Over a decade. 2009, I believe that's when it came out. So we need a new Monkey Island game. That's true. Who knows when that will happen though? But yes, Nina's back. And also Nina earlier this year was on a gaming apparel episode because Nina is obviously a designer for fan gamer. And in that case, I asked for questions and comments too, but never had time to respond to them. So we're going to tackle those here as well. And we have a special surprise because we were surprised earlier in May because Ron Gilbert creator of Monkey Island basically gave the world a free mini-adventure game using existing assets from his Stimbleweed Park game.

So Nina and I both played through all of that. And it's available on Steam for free. And we're going to talk about that after we go through all of our questions and comments about the Monkey Island podcast to date. So let's start off with our first comment for The Secret of Monkey Island, and Matthias says, and this is all about the German translations for the LucasArts game. So he says, the German translation for the LucasArts Adventures was done by Boris Schneider, who was an editor of the first German computer game magazine and was rooted in a nerd and video game culture, and understood the cultural references of the originals very well, and therefore

did an excellent job with the translations. Even the insult, sword-fighting, and the vast vault of cultural and self-referential jokes in the library catalog in Monkey Island 2 work very well, although I imagine they must have been a nightmare to translate. And Schneider went on to become the Xbox product manager at Microsoft and was the representing face for the launch of the original Xbox, at least here in Germany. And I believe we, I wasn't sure how true it was. It's just something I heard that the German translations of these games were very good, and that's a reason why they were very popular in Europe. up, and this is Matthias confirming that fact. One thing I forgot to mention in the Secret of Monkey Island episode was when I played the CD version, there were so many language options, which I thought was super neat.

That's something I'd never seen in a video game before, just if you were able to select one of, like, many languages available to play in. I'm pretty sure I tried the French version at some point, and there were other languages on there, like probably German was on there, like Finnish, other, mostly European languages. And I was just tried them out for fun, even though I didn't understand what they were saying, except for in French, which I did understand. That was before EFigs was the standard. EFigs? EFigs stands for English, French, Italian, German, and Spanish.

That is the standard for translations, for like worldwide translations. And I guess maybe Japan, unless the game came from there. You know what? There's a Japanese version of Monkey Island, which I would love to play. but it's it's kind of hard to access you can't find like the file somewhere I guess I could emulate it if I want to be a dirty thief well I mean there's no legal way to buy it's not like not in print anywhere

so but yeah that'd be a cool thing for you to report back on on a future episode like what is the Japanese version of Monkey Island like and is there a good translation a few years back I did watch someone on Nico Nico play it that's like the Japanese YouTube which I don't think it's as popular anymore But a guy was playing it, and I thought it was interesting just seeing how certain things were translated. And another interesting thing was the guy didn't know what root beer is because root beer is not a thing in Japan. You know, root beer is a big part of the game at the end of near the end there.

And he kept seeing like, what is root beer? Because he didn't translate that as anything else. I guess I've never seen root beer in Japan. It's just not a thing. and you can find it at import places, but people just don't like the taste there because they're not used to it. I'm with them.

They taste like medicine. You don't like root beer? Yeah. I don't like root beer. It's gross. Maybe I didn't give another try. I've only had it as a kid and I just didn't like it. But we have another question or sorry, comment here for Monkey Island 1, Nina.

Can you take that next one? All right. So Nathan says, I'm glad you got Nina to be on the show. Seems a perfect choice to help you lay the game bare. So about Sierra Games. Yes, they largely deserve your criticisms. Nina's observation that they punish you for trying and for not trying was particularly salient.

But not completely. Jane Jensen developed the Gabriel Knight series for Sierra and did so with a conscious intention of being less cruel and unfair to the player. As such, the games are very highly regarded even by many folks who have Kings Quest PTSD. I've actually never played the Gabriel Night series, but I've heard a lot of good things about it. Yeah, I played the first game and I played a lot of the second, the full motion video game. And I know our friends at Watch Huffer Fireballs love the full motion video game for how goofy it is. But it's actually a pretty fun adventure game. And, of course, the third game is notorious and unfairly accused of killing all adventure games.

But I've never played it, yeah. Is that the one with the cat fur mustache? Yep, it's the cat hair puzzle. Oh, okay. And, yeah, it's been, I mean, it's been thoroughly debunked at this point that, like, that wasn't the reason there I know. adventure games. I mean, it was a fun article to read. It was a fun culprit to poke fingers at, but adventure games. So it's like the principal and the popper of adventure games. Basically, yeah. And we redeem that episode. I don't think Gabriel Night 3 is as good of a product or as good

of an entertainment thing as a principal and the popper of the Simpsons. But it's not responsible for like the downfall of a medium. Yeah, there are other super convoluted puzzles. It's true. I was under the assumption that you're just anti every Sierra game. No, no, no. I mean, Gabriel Knight has some unfair puzzles, but I think it was them moving in the right direction. And maybe at some point in the future, we can talk about those games because people in the comments,

we've been getting a lot of comments on these episodes, so thank you. But people in the comments have been trying to push me into Sierra games. And I think at this point, maybe I'll wait until the state of the world improves before I dive into Sierra because I don't need to be, I don't need punishment right now. playing Zach McCracken and you were there for it you were there you know talking to me about it I think I can't believe you did that to yourself and nearly drove me to the brink and I did it for our listeners I finished Zach McCracken for our listeners you deserve a trophy for that I deserve like

some sort of badge sent to me by David Fox yeah I would I would like to try Gabriel night and also the Quest for Glory series yeah yeah and they're all super super affordable on like steam and good old game so yes in the future once we get through all of these maybe I'll think about doing like a podcast per quest series, as I have said before. We're going to move on to Monkey Island 2, Lechuk's Revenge. So there's a lot for this one because it was posted. posted in two places, the Patreon and the blog, and also we asked for comments, but that episode ran the full length. I wasn't expecting that, but we got a good conversation out of it.

But here are some of the comments we got for Monkey Island 2. So Erg says, how do you make a game in 14 months? Or how do you make this game in 14 months, rather? According to Ron Gilbert's blog, the Secret of Monkey Island was code complete, September 2nd, 1990. The final bug filed for Monkey Island 2 was on November 4th, 1991. one. That's just over one year from start to finish with VGA graphics and an entirely new sound system. Who has that kind of stamina? And Erg goes on to say, I would also like to recommend the Thimbleweed Park podcast from two plus years ago. In addition to talking about their contemporary adventure game, Ron Gilbert, Gary Winnick, and David Fox talk about their LucasArts days.

When asked when he knew Monkey Island was a big enough hit to deserve a sequel, Gilbert says that he didn't know. Work began on Monkey Island too before the secret of Monkey Island hit stores. Those guys worked to, And yeah, those were back-to-back, like 90-91 games, and it is pretty astounding that they came out so close to each other. Yeah, they came out so close to each other, and you wouldn't think it because of the huge graphical leap between the two. And also by how advanced the second game is, not just the graphics, but it's just so much bigger. It's true, yeah. I mean, it is a lot of work for, I guess, maybe like, the nine or 12 people who made the game, but also the assets they were making were much smaller. they weren't making like a 3D model of Guy Brass

they were making a 40 by 40 pixel model which does take a lot of work but it's a lot less work than you know making HD textures and all the stuff that goes into a modern game and they didn't like cut any corners either they could have easily made a monkey island too that still takes place on melee island and still uses all the same sprites

but they didn't they took it to like completely new settings and yet there are like a couple of sprites that I've used like most notably Elaine but everything else is like totally new. And I find that really impressive. Yeah, it's quite a feat. And it's like a new graphical high watermark for that era for adventure games. And I will say that because we played, we both played Dolores, a Thimbleweed Park mini adventure, I have got the craving to replay Thimbleweed Park. And once I do, I think I will go back and listen to that podcast. I didn't listen to it because

I wanted to go into that adventure game completely fresh with no stories about the development or puzzles or anything. And they probably kept it spoiler free. But at this point, I'm ready, after another replay to just, you know, appreciate the game from their perspective. Yeah, I want to listen to that to you now. And replay the game. So, Nina, please take the next one. Rand Wolf 83 says, while I played it at least 50 times through, the part that always sticks in my head was exploring the cemetery crypt and resurrecting Rapscallion, only to be told

he left the gas on in the steam and weenny hut and that you need to turn off for him. That mixture of death and decay with an utterly mundane thing we often worry about as adults, leaving lights or stove on symbolize so much of what I love about this series nothing is too sacred nothing is too boring I also didn't realize

until I was an adult how much of a dick guybrush is to people just to move ahead swung up peg legs framing people and getting them thrown in jail and even stealing an eyepiece from a poor near-sighted child

I don't think Wally is a child he is an adult man he's a very small man in stature in stature yeah I don't think he's meant to be a little person though. I don't think so either because I think it's just very very short. They would have made those

jokes back then and they really didn't. I think you just like a did you think they would have. Oh for sure. I mean that was just the kind of humor that was still you know cool in 1990. True like it would have been like I guess era appropriate but you don't have those kinds of problematic jokes in the series though. We're not using the we're not using the M word in monkey island. We're using the monkey word but not the other M word for small person. Like when I saw him in Curse a Monkey Island, I was like, is he supposed to be that short? I didn't really, I know I've like talked about this way too much how I didn't like the graphics in Chris Mike Island. You got to move on. I know, I know, but I just didn't think like he was supposed to be that short. I mean, look at him hanging up next to Guy Brush at Monkey Island too.

He's pretty short. Yeah, I guess it's just because Guy Britch is made to be extra long in that game. He is a long boy. There was a growth spurt at that haunted carnival he was at. And then Wally became shorter. Yeah, he became much shorter in comparison to Guy Brush. But yeah, I want to go back to the comment about the mixture of death and decay with a mundane thing. We talked about it before on podcast, but yeah, I really feel like the series,

what it does best is mixing the mundane with the fantastical, like mixing the tacky souvenir Disneyland aspects of the Pirates of the Caribbean ride with these more mystical qualities of voodoo and pirate ghosts and things like that. And that's a really good example, just like this mundane thing about leaving the gas on. is part of this like supernatural quest yeah that's that's one of the things I love about that second game

it's all the dark humor in there and then like little things like that to like lighten the mood a bit although when I play the game I don't think I quite understood why he wanted the gas turn off it's just uh now that I've grown older I'm like

okay I get it now to free his soul I guess no like I understood that but I was like well why do you care now that I'm a I'm growing up and I have actual responsibilities, things like that. Like, I get it now. It's like, no matter what happens, you're still worry about those little things. So, a very short comment from Jost 1, who says, just wants someone

to acknowledge the Kate Kapshaw reference. And I didn't get it until this was pointed out to me. So Kate Kapsize is the Monkey Island 2 ship captain. And Kate Kapshaw is Stephen Spielberg's wife, who he married in the 80s. And she obviously played Willie in Temple of Doom. So Kate Kapshaw, Kate capsize, that's the joke and I only got it when it was pointed out to me because Kate Capshaw kind of just stopped acting after the 80s for the most part. So there you have it. I hope I didn't blow any minds out there.

When I was a kid, I didn't understand the joke behind her name. By that, I don't mean the Kate Capshaw thing, but the word capsize? Yeah. I just thought it meant, oh, she wears a big hat. Okay. Yeah, I guess you don't normally hear the word capsize as a kid because you're not part of that nautical world or really exposed to anything like that.

So teaching us vocabulary is what Monkey Island does best. So Nina, please take the next comment. All right, Swarm says, my most vivid memory of Monkey Island 2 is playing it with my dad on his Amiga 500 and having to switch to one of the 12 different discs like every other minute because we didn't have a hard drive.

I learned at such a young age that low times were hell. Also, the if this is X, what's this puzzle, was pure evil. I agree with the pure evil thing because whenever I reach that puzzle I'm like what is the answer to this and then when it's pointed out to me I am like oh my God it's that simple

and then I immediately forget it after I'm done with the puzzle and I've forgotten it again what the answer to that puzzle is well we went over this in my appearance about this game but I still like that puzzle I still think it's super clever and I never forgot

because I thought it was so clever and I've done that puzzle that puzzle trick on my friends too like at grade school It's a fun inversion of the adventure game puzzle because it punishes you for thinking too hard which I like. Yes, exactly. That's what I love about it. It's yeah, it's clever. But again,

it's something I always have to look up when I get there because I'm like, oh, this is simple, but how simple is it? I forget how simple it is. So the Amiga 500 didn't have a hard drive? I guess not, which is like I guess it also turns playing Monkey Island into kind of a workout because you're just like swapping discs back and forth.

Twelve discs, dear lord, that's that's quite, that's something. I'm guessing like every time you went to a different island you would have to switch to a different disc I'm guessing like sometimes different locations like oh if you want to go to the voodoo ladies hut that's on disc four so find that that would suck yeah yeah so I'm going to move

on to talk about David Thomason's question it's a bit of a long one so he says Bob mentioned in this episode about Disney changing Pirates of the Caribbean to have Monkey Island included in it since Disney now owns both properties while that hasn't happened I did notice some from Monkey Island is now in Disney World he goes on to say I went to Disney

World in April this year and there's a Pirates of the Caribbean themed scavenger hunt called a Pirates Adventure Treasure of the Seven Seas. You have to go to a hut to get your quest and in the hut it's playing the Monkey Island theme song and you can hear it in this YouTube video from about 20 seconds in if you turn your volume up. I'm going to play the clip but I also must note that this comment was posted like in November. He's talking about going to Disney World in April of last year because obviously you can't go to Disney World in April of this year. So here is the clip. So there you have it.

It's somebody at Disney realizing they own Monkey Island and saying like, oh yeah, we could use that in our iPad-friendly pirates, you know, scavenger hunt. So that blew my mind. And he goes on to say, well, it's not a huge presence. I do think that nothing in Disney World ends up there by mistake. So someone there must be aware of Monkey Island to pull the music from it. So perhaps there are bigger plans for Monkey Island and Disney. And I mean, that's wishful thinking. I would love to see Guy Brush in the ride now, just to come full circle.

But I honestly think like Monkey Island matters to honestly less than a million people. And Disney doesn't really want to do things that appeal to less than a million people anymore. But, you know, we can always hope. Yeah, this also blew my mind. So thank you, David, for showing this to us. That made me really happy to see, actually, that there's any bit of, like, Monkey Island thing out there. Yeah.

And amazing. So Nina and I, one of our favorite podcasts is We Hate Movies. You might have heard some of the We Hate Movies guys on my podcast Talking Simpsons. And right now, sorry, currently in May when we're recording this, they just went through all of the Pirates of the Caribbean movies through their podcast about bad movies. And Nina, you are currently watching them all. all, correct? Yes, I don't normally do this.

I love, we hate movies, but I don't have much of a, much patience for watching bad movies. I'm not like you, Bob. I can't do it. But I do like the first Pirates of the Caribbean movie, and I've always meant to watch the other one. So I thought, this would be a good opportunity to do so. And with each movie, I'm like, why am I still doing this?

Now, that last one, the third movie, almost broke me. It is like, it was so long. It was like, three hours and 40 minutes, something crazy like that. It was like three hours It went on for far too long And it feels much longer It does for like four hours But as a

As a monkey island fan And pirates Are the Caribbean the ride Being kind of monkey island Adjacent I feel like I gotta I gotta sit through all these I gotta finish the series

I'm really bringing it up Because if you have time to kill And a lot of us do right now Check out We Hate Movies And their Pirates month Which has just happened all throughout May And I will say for our next podcast, I'm going to try to finally read

On Stranger Tides, the book that did inspire Monkey Island. So I do want to read that and see. I've been wanting to do it for like, I don't know, over 20 years now, and I finally need to get around to do it. It's not a long book, and I could just do it in a weekend or something. So look forward to that. Man, now I want to go to Disney World just to hear that Monkey Island theme. I just want to go outside, frankly, but Disney World sounds fun too.

Don't worry, Bob. We'll make a Disney World someday. Sure we will. So now we're going to move on to the Curse of Monkey Island. I did not expect us to get so many comments on this one. It has like 20 plus comments on the Patreon and like more than nine on the blog at this point. And none of them are roasting me. No.

No. And also thanks to everybody who, you know, congratulated us on our cursed engagement, which is still. Still cursed. Still cursed. Still cursed, by the way. We're hoping for good news. But so Nina, please take this first comment about the curse of monkey island. Scott says, as someone who still plays modern venture games, I can say that the genre has seemed to overcorrect from being too open to not nearly open enough.

You only hold on to a few items before they are immediately used. Locations are locked down as you linearly progress through the game, and rarely do you get the opportunity to solve things in an order different than the developers intended. It is much hard to get stuck, but you lose that exploratory magic of the golden age of Lucashart's point in clicks. Yeah, you know what? I really should check out more modern adventure games. There are a lot out there, and they seem good. I just don't have the time to play games like that anymore, but maybe because they are more linear,

it doesn't require nearly as much time to play them. So maybe I should check them out. This makes me really miss the era of Telltale, and not even the era that people like the best, like the Walking Dead stuff. I totally miss the adventure game era of Telltale because you could just get a 90-minute adventure game every month, and that was so perfect.

It just lasted the perfect amount of time You never got tired of it And it was just difficult enough That it wasn't boring Like I so miss Telltale Yeah I have heard that modern adventure games Are like this now And I understand the complaint

But at the same time I'm like well that's that's fine Because I'd rather it be more linear now Because of the lack of time Yeah and I also think that When you make an adventure game More open world or however you want to call it So like Monkey Island 2

You can run into a a lot more design problems and a lot more things you have to test, and that can make a game more expensive to make. And adventure games don't have a giant market right now, and they never really did. So I feel like they want to make a game as inexpensively as possible in order to make a profit on an adventure game. And a way to do that is to make it more rained in and more linear. One thing I do like up with the modern stuff is they tend to have to do lists now. Yes, yes. Which is helpful. Even Thimbleweed Park. That was a great asset of that game, or aspect of that game rather. And it wasn't overly handholding or anything. It's just like a nice

reminder, especially if you have to take a week off from playing it. And when you get back in, you're on like, what was I supposed to do again? Where was I? What have I done so far? And it's not just point and click stuff to like Ace Attorney 5. I don't know but the sixth one. They had a to-do list. Oh, okay. Yeah. I forget if six did that, but I think six is the better game, but I don't know if that's why. Well, I didn't, I didn't like five and I actually didn't like the to-do list in that because Ace Attorney, there's not many things to do. That's true. I don't think you need that to-do list. Ace Attorney, all you do is exhaust every dialogue option until the story progresses, basically. Exactly. I felt like half of that game was figuring out what you're

supposed to do next, and when the game just hands you to-do lists, that just takes away a lot of the fun. We are off topic, but I will let everyone know out there. You have to shame Nina into finishing Dangan Rampa 2 because she needs to play Dangan Rompa 3, and please don't send her any spoilers. But But she's right at the end, and I'm trying to push her in a Dangan Rampa 3 because it will change her life. And maybe one day in the future, we will do a Dong and Romp episode because that series is now 10 years old. I have a lot to say about the series so far. I'm sorry, I won't finish it. I'm in the middle of the last trial.

I haven't played in like a month. It rules, and you need to play 3. But let's move on to Muteki, who says, Snide aside's about Kings Quest 5, notwithstanding, because I agree it's not a well-designed game. I do think the budget for it is pretty evident because it is one of the prettiest Dan games I have ever played. And I'm also pretty sure the requirement to make both EGA and VEGA versions means they had to draw the art by hand basically twice. And of course, since it originally was a floppy game, there was no budget for voice acting. Meanwhile, you are correct that the intro animation for King's Quest 7 was, in fact, done by animation magic, who Bob's note here, they did the CDI Zelda animations that are very famously made fun of these days. That explains a lot.

So back to Muteke, who says, I'm not sure about in-game stuff, though. I remember being disappointed in thinking the game felt like I stepped down after the genuinely excellent Kings Quest 6. But getting older, I've come to appreciate the Click It if you're curious. Nothing too bad will happen design of that one. And I think its palettes are more restrained than you make it out to be, except when they're intentionally trying to be garish and tasteless, which is admittedly fairly often. And I didn't include this because the comment was a bit long to read on the air, but he was also making fun of Nina for hating Goofy based on our discussion,

about dingy dog. I believe Mutecki said Goofy has the purest heart of any Disney character and I agree. It doesn't matter. I still don't like him. He's doing his best,

okay? Little did I know that that would be my most controversial stance in the episode. I thought people would roast me for not liking Chris and Muckie Island.

Well, you know, when Nina and I can finally meet up again, we're going to watch a goofy movie and that's going to be her like true introduction to the magic of the goof. So...

That's going to be our honeymoon is watching a goofy movie. Could anything be, Could anything be more romantic than that, I ask you? And the answer is no. Before we'd explore that any further, please read this next comment, Nina. Gerard says, it was the third one I played, which is why it was a disappointment, for reasons similar to those Nina mentioned.

It's still a low point in the series for me. I might like escape better for all of its many faults. The involvement of Clark and Stemmel from Sam and Max at least made it funny and less of a tonal mismatch. And Tales was a nice return to form that acknowledged the advances of Michael and 2, and did the best it could with the mess the series had been in since Curse of Monkey Island sent it off the rails. I agree.

Gerard is a Curse of Monkey Island hater, but this made me think that, like, I have not even touched escape in, let's say, 16 or 17 years. What if I like it? What if, when I sit down to play it with a controller instead of, you know, the clunky keyboard setup? What if I actually enjoy the puzzles and the humor? What if we were all wrong?

Who knows? Who knows? Yeah. Yeah, I also gave up on trying to finish that game, when it first came out and I haven't touched it since now I'm kind of curious to see what I would think about it

because it seems like I share the same opinions as Gerard here so maybe I will like it like one thing I don't like about that game for sure is the graphics but maybe if I look beyond that there's something enjoyable there

who knows it's really hard to get over like the earliest era of 3D graphics just like dumping excellent 2D graphics in the dumpster to have these like as technically interesting but not visually appealing peeling 3D graphics. But yeah, we will get to it. It will not destroy us, I swear. I survive Zach McCrackett, okay? It can't be worse than that. No, I can do Escape from Monkey Island. It's

going to be a cakewalk compared to that. The award-winning Go-Nintendo podcast covers the latest Nintendo news while also diving into what's hot and pop culture, music trivia, hands-on impressions, and so much more. Hopefully we can make you laugh, too. You'll find new episodes of the Go-Nintendo podcast on the Greenlit podcast network every single week. Hey, do you enjoy your commute but want to make it all? little wears it's real dumb we hate ourselves hey guys you ever like something well you won't in this

case men like that a podcast hey chris what's the war rocket ajax podcast about well matt if we were smart it'd be about murders but it's actually about comics war rocket ajax it's not about murders but it is weekly on the greenlit podcast network So up next, we have a lot of stuff from Nina's video game Parall episode, C.S. of course, Nina, is a great designer for a fan gamer. And this one is going live

in mid-June, Nina. Is there anything you can talk about? You've been working on since that, I believe, November recording of that podcast? Yeah, I've been working on a lot of stuff. Stuff we've released recently that I did was, let's see, I did a shirt for Godhand, of all things.

I think it's the first piece of North American Godhand merch ever. Yes. And can we spoil those are your lips on the design? Oh, yes, yes. There's the kick me sign on the back. And I had to get a, I had to get a lip mark on it. I was looking online for a royalty free lip mark I could use. And then I thought, hey, I have a pair of lips that I could use for this. So I was kissing a lot of paper to get the perfect mark. And that's very sad. And so whenever I see someone wearing that shirt in the future, I can be like, hey, buddy, those are my wife's lips on your back. You just shove them and then run away. Hey, that's not good social distancing. It's true. It's true. I mean, like this is going to be the future when we're married and we can like be within the realm of people.

Yeah, yeah. So anything else going on right now? I also did a Battletoads hoodie. Oh, that's awesome. A zipper pole that looks like a repelling battle tobe. I was very excited about that. I made a cute tote bag for Monster Hunter featuring monsters from the Coral Highlands. That was sold out currently, but it might be reprinted.

I did a blood-borne keychain of the adorable messengers. I love those messengers so much. I just did like a cute keychain of them. And more stuff for Undertale, Delta Rune, Celeste, River City, Girls, Valhalla, shovel night, lots of many stuff. And we recently picked up an incredible license that none of you will be able to guess what it is in a million years. So I know that's not very helpful, but I just wanted to mention how I'm always busy and working on new things. And I'm always super excited about the things I'm working on. One thing you did that I have to give you props for is the arcade floor blanket from GDQ that I ordered.

that was a COVID relief fundraiser. Yeah, Corona relief done quick. You perfectly capture the arcade floor except there's no telltale stains on it. But you can add those yourself. You make your own stains, yes. It's an arts and crafts project. You add your own stains.

No, that was fun because I had to make a super ugly design, but also make it somewhat appealing. And it was hard to strike that right balance, but I was like afraid people wouldn't get what I was going for. But I think people got it. And I'm not sure if you mentioned it, but the speeder bike Battletoads pin. Oh, yeah, that was fun too.

That is a mark of trauma from anyone born in, like, the 80s. Like, we all live through it. That's our, like, purple hearts of playing Battletoads. Yeah, doing stuff for, like, Battletoads, Godhand, all these other things. Man, I never would have imagined. So let's move on to our questions and comments for this episode. So Ben Mitchell says, My first video game wearable was a T-shirt exclusive to Sydney VR theme park Sega World.

that I would have picked up in 1998 or so. It had an image of Sonic the Hedgehog pointing at Sydney Harbor and said, Fair Dinkum, Sonic in Sydney. That's my bad Australian accent, by the way. What's Fair Dinkum? I think it's something Australian people say. Okay. So he goes on to say, and Jesus Christ, I can't find anything about this shirt on the

internet. I managed to track down a photo of me at the 2000 Olympics, wearing it and it is attached. So, yeah, he posted that in the comment. There was so much weird shit at Sega World. I have a very vivid memory of embroidered Sonic button-ups where the gang are falling into the pocket. Wow. So yeah, Sonic indeed

did say fair dinkum and whatever that means will be left to the future historians who listen to this podcast. That's an amazing t-shirt. Yeah, yeah. It's like area-specific, which I like. It's an all-over print. You know what? We would love to do it all-over print at Fan Gamer.

We just can't find a place that can do it. And they're expensive, right? Yeah. Or rather, there are places that do it, but we need to find a place that will do it for a reasonable price and also when it's not like a sublimation print on polyester. Because that doesn't feel very good. And what does sublimation mean?

I'm not exactly sure about the technical process. But if you just Google like sublimation print, you'll see what I mean. It's just like, it's always on like a cheap polyester type fabric. And it just, I don't know, it just like print. a large image on a fabric and then they make stuff out of that. If you ever find like

if you ever find like things advertising a meat hoodie to you, that's a sublimation print. Okay, okay. Oh, I've seen that. Yeah, yeah. It's everywhere. I've seen that and also the horny anime grill face version of that. Like any kind of super tacky print and the ramen one too?

The Ahai Gao shirts or tend to be sublimation print, I believe. I thought so. Let's not talk about that anymore. I don't have you read the next comment from Jeremiah Jones. Jeremiah Jones says, the first thing I had was a Legend of Zelda hat.

It looked nothing like 80s, Link, but more like a red-haired version of Link now. I love it, but it is too small for my head. I also had the Bowser Nintendo Power Iron On Transfer, but I wore it on a purple sweatshirt. Outside of that, my town had shoddy plain shirts.

To get the gaming merchandise before 2010, you had to go to the malls in the city, which were an hour away. So I wanted to mention that hat because I saw it a lot as a kid, And where I saw it the most was on a kids in the hall sketch because Bruce McCullough character Gavin, the little annoying kid, he wore that hat in those sketches. Oh, didn't you tweet out a picture of that once when you were doing research for this episode? I might have because that was a vivid memory, but I think I was doing research like eight months ago.

But yeah, yeah, that's definitely like the first piece of like Zelda merch I ever saw and it was on a kids in the hall sketch to make fun of millennials before they knew what millennials were. Yeah, that's amazing. It's true. And Ultimate Carl says, I was a 90s kid, just saying that phrase makes me roll my eyes, though, ha ha. So I missed the Atari era of merch. I also grew up in rural-ish Kentucky, so I never saw a single piece of video game clothing until probably the early 2000s.

It's kind of crazy, really. I remember having Power Rangers shirts and even Halloween costumes we just bought in stores, but even characters as iconic as Mario and Sonic just didn't have anything for them. Incidentally, I was both Mario and Sonic for Halloween as well as some years. I had to make the costumes myself with my mother. Even since I started owning some gaming-related clothing of my own, it was entirely stuff I bought online until probably at least 2005 or 2006 when nerdy stuff started showing up in places like Hot Topic. These days, that stuff is all over the place. Hell, I literally, yesterday opened a fan gamer delivery.

My sister sent me for Christmas of two undertale shirts. Not clothing, but I mention it in the comments for the Gaming Holy Girl's episode, and I feel Melik mentioning it again. The branded gaming merch I want the most is one of those Conkers Bed, Furday branded condoms. Nintendo gave out at E3 2000, ha ha. And this is Bob saying, I wonder what a 20-year-old condom that's been unwrapped looks like now. I still have a branded condom from Sin City, the movie, the first one.

Oh, okay. So that's only a 15-year-old condom. I'm talking 20. Yeah, I wonder if one of those two undersetail shirts were mine because I've designed a fair number of undertale shirts. He's right, though, as, I mean, like it wasn't until the early 2000s, if you remember the episode we talked about it, but the early 2000s was the first.

like mainstream tacky gaming stuff in like Target and uh hot topic occasionally and stuff like that but then fan gamer uh so our episode was just fan gamer propaganda by the way and nina my check my check did not bounce so thank you uh but yes fan gamer finally brought us all good merch and everyone uh stole their idea right yeah if you go to hot topic now like just go on the website and and look up all the video gaming stuff it's incredible what they have and you know what a lot of them are really well designed yeah we go into hot topic without shame. There are so many cool t-shirts in there. It's true. Yeah. It's just the t-shirt factory now. I have no shame going to a Hot Topic. I mean, they have some good stuff. And I go there for research, honestly.

The only thing, what's out there and what the current fashions are. The only downside about Hot Topic is that every 90 seconds, you're asked by a new person if you need help because they think you're going to steal. Oh, is that why? Yes. And I think a lot of people do steal from Hot Topic because it's just a labyrinth of T-shirts in, like, Chotchkees. So, yeah. I thought they wanted to help me No, they don't want to help you They're just like, you're scum, you're going to steal I keep my eyes on you So they don't actually want to help I'm sorry to rip the veil from your eyes

And this is how the world is Nina People think you're going to steal from them Well, once I'm able to go back to a hot topic I'm going to punch one of the employees In the back of the neck And I'm going to steal Please read our next comment Al says it's been too small

For my adult body for as long as I've owned it but I just can't get rid of my official Super Mario Brothers the movie shirt. It features a hideous rendition of Dennis Hopper and the slogan we all remember from the film, get ready to devolve. For the most part, though, I never wear gaming merchant public unless it's super simple, abstracted, or barely referential. For a while, though, someone was manufacturing an exact replica of James Sunderland's jacket

from Silent Hill 2, and I'll forever kick myself for not picking that up. I think I know what you're talking about. That's from insert coin clothing. that's based in the UK Oh yeah I think the coolest stuff That they make or just people in general make That's the most expensive things are just like Well here is the shirt this character wears Or like here is the jacket they wear

Because you can wear that around regular people And they don't think you're a video game free They're like cool leather jacket You're like I'm actually Leon from Resident Evil You know what I have like I have a split opinion about that On one hand I do love it when they make the apparel that the actual characters wear in the game.

On the other hand, it's like cosplaying, like, in real life. I like the idea of secretly cosplaying and having no one know. But then people won't know. They're not going to, like, go up to you and, like, give you a pound on the back for it. They'll probably just, like, giggle about it. I mean, you could wear Squall's outfit without the Gunblade and people are like, hey, cool outfit, dude. But then I don't think most people will know your squall. Yeah, that's true.

I once saw a guy just straight up wearing Rock Howard's jacket That's a Geese Howard's son from King of Fighters or Art of Fighting. That is a deep pull. It's a cool jacket So I don't blame him for wearing it But I'm not throwing any stones though

Because I did recently order A Night in the Wood shirt That's just like the Zero with a slash through it That May wears Okay Well I ordered a full Waluigi costume for our wedding So look forward to that Oh.

It's a formal Waluigi outfit, though. Oh, so you listen to those tweets saying, men, why can't you? What's preventing you from looking like this? I have the Waluigi body, so it's time to take advantage of it. I'm going to move on to Stub Stubb, who says, Do the Godfather 2 Brass Knuckles EA send out count as wearable? If so, are they the most dangerous video game wearable? My favorite video game merch that I own is a Mario hat that includes a one-page instruction manual

that warns you that the hat is not designed to function as a hat for practical use. And a set of Hanafudo cards featuring Nintendo characters, these were both rewards from Club Nintendo. And I've seen that hat before. Me too. Someone posted the instructions or whatever. Just like, it's an ornamental hat. Put it on your shelf, but never on your head. Yeah.

I want to know, like, what the story is behind that. There has to be some kind of like legal reason why. Is it because it doesn't protect you from the sun's rays? I don't get it. I just think, like, it was not made to be as durable as it had. It was made to be like, oh, look, that's what Mario wears. And that's the way they're. able to send it out essentially for free or the points you earned to buy it. So it was made so

cheaply they don't want you complaining that your hat fell apart. Hmm. So they don't need to put that kind of warning on say the Burger King crown. Exactly, exactly. You know you're not going to be wearing that, you're passing it down to your children after you pass away. It's a one use item only. Speak for yourself. Hey. Let's move on to our final comment for the apparel episode. Nina, and can you please read Blargg's comment? Blark says, iconography is my preference for clothing, something clearly recognizable to fans of the game,

but is meaningless to the general public. Nintendo's franchises are great for this. Super mushrooms, the Triforce, and Poked Bullebbels evoke memories of their respective properties without blaring, I'm a gamer to the world. If those are too mainstream, you can also use objects from specific entries like an Okorina, Majura's mask, or the raccoon leaf.

I hate cheesy slogans like the classically trained shirt above or a shirt that says, grow up before a super mushroom. They associate a certain attitude with a clothing instead of letting the image speak for itself. Yeah, it's very true. And I think for the most part, we've moved on from this kind of clothing. But I still think, like, Nintendo needs to catch up. And I've been lucky enough to go to their Nintendo World Store in New York. But going in there, it's like, oh, cool, it's the Nintendo store.

But the merch is not that good. It's like, again, it's like the mainstream target stuff. You think Nintendo could have all the deep cuts available for you if you journey to New York. to go to their special store but no the merch isn't that great there i only have uh one piece uh one official nintendo t-shirt and that's the splatoon one of the the final splat fest when they had the chaos versus order i got the chaos one because it's so cool how did you get that were they offering those like through a website or something oh they were online they sold it super fast but i grabbed it right away it's so cool and you know what um i got to say i think wearing a super

mushroom or Triforce or Pocobal does wear I'm a gamer. Yeah, it's not, I mean, those are so iconic. Yeah. It's like, and plus people, it's, we've had like 30 or 40 years of those games now where people know, like, immediately, that's Pokemon, that's Mario, that's Zelda. So if you want to be more covert, you need, let's say, I don't know, some other weapon or item from like a lesser game series, lesser in popularity. Yeah, I mean, you can still like wear Zelda or Mario Pokemon stuff, but something less

overtly so. Yeah, like a majora's mask or something. Oh, like just of the mask? Yeah, sure. I'm just thinking of like what's a, I mean, well, that game sold millions of copies and everyone played it 20 years ago and then like five years ago. So maybe like you got to look up, let's see, something involving tingle, who knows? Well, then people are going to ask questions about that. There is no right answer here.

So we've gotten through the comments for the apparel episode. All the Monkey Island stuff, thanks again for leaving your comments. Even if I didn't read it on the air, I do enjoy reading all the comments privately. So thanks so much for sending them. And they're helping me with future adventure game episodes. episodes. And so let's talk about Dolores, a Thimbleweed Park mini adventure. This released on May 9th out of nowhere. And it's free if you have a PC and can go online and download it through Steam. And as far as I know, you don't need the original game because, no, you don't need the original game because in the credits,

it's like, please buy Thumbullabyte Park. It's available for like, you know, iOS and Linux and switch and Xbox and PlayStation and PC, of course. And of course, Nina and I wholeheartedly recommend Thimbleweed Park, and there will be a Thimbleweed Park episode at some point because it's not an old game, but it kind of is an old game. Yeah, it's also LucasArts adjacent. Yeah, it's what he would have made if he had thought of it 30 plus years ago. But yeah, so this is essentially a playable prototype of Ron Gilbert's new adventure game engine, and it's using only Thimbleweed Park assets from the existing game. And I guess because of quarantine, he and David Fox, the creator of Zach McCracken, of course, got together and we're like, well, I mean, remotely they got

together and we're like, we're working on this engine. Why don't we do a playable prototype for people because we're all stuck inside and we need things to do and play. So he gave this gift to us. And I think it's a pretty neat little experiment, although if you're going into it thinking it will be as well designed as a Thimbleweed Park, you're going to be a little disappointed. Nina, what did you think about Dolores? I was surprised about how much I liked it, actually. I like that new game engine with the sort of pie menu. Like I said before that I prefer the scum engine with the verbs over the pie menu of like full throttle and Chris and McKay Island. But I think this is a good compromise between the two.

Yeah, we should talk about the UI. So unlike Ron Gilbert's previous games, like he believed really strongly in the list of verbs on the screen. And I was still in the press before The Weepard Park came out. And in one of my interviews, he was like, yeah, like I love having verbs on the screen. This to me is what adventure games are. But I think maybe he is budged from that point of view because in this game, there are no verbs on the screen. For the most part, you don't need to access like a list of anything.

For the most part, like, when you click on something, you do the action that is the most logical action for that item. But occasionally, there will be more than one verb you can do with an item, and then you right-click the item, and it gives you like a very small list, like three at max different kinds of interactions. And to use items, you just drag them from the bottom of the screen to whatever you want to use them on.

You can actually use them on other items. It's very straightforward, but also very different from what we saw in The Movie Park. Yeah, because Thimbleby Park used the Scum system. And it was actually kind of odd to see the live gameplay area fill my entire screen because the verbs and stuff were the bottom were gone. Yeah, I totally forgot about the verb bar because I've not been playing a lot of verb bar games recently. So it took me a minute to realize like, oh, right, there were verbs in this. Yeah, well, everything just looked so huge.

But I'm pretty sure they'd adjust the artwork to accommodate for that if they make a totally new game with that engine? Yeah, yeah. It's all made to scale very nicely from the original pixel graphics. And I really loved having all my stuff at the bottom still instead of having to pull out a box or chest that fills up the whole screen. Me too. I complained about that in Chris Micah Island and I don't like that about Sam and Max either. Yeah, I think they would find more elegant ways to do it and this is one of them. I will say like there's a few issues I have with this. I don't think it's very visually elegant. I think it's still a little clumsy. But I think that's something that if once you have this engine you can play around with it and do certain

things with these options, these visual options. There is no voice acting in this game and the one issue I did have and maybe I just didn't find the option was I couldn't find a way to like page through the dialogue faster and maybe that's just my fault and I didn't see that you know control option on the screen at some point but press period. Oh okay I wish I would have known that before six playthroughs but yeah they show you on the controls at the very beginning Okay. That's just my fault for being impatient and saying, I understand how I'm going to match your game.

So yeah, totally my fault. But yeah, no voice acting in this game. Actually, I do think the dialogue takes up too much of the screen, but me that's like an accessibility issue for like people who have like, you know, vision problems or, you know, anything like that. But sorry, please continue. Oh, I wanted to mention what the object of the game is. You just have to go around taking pictures for the newspaper.

So they gave you like a list of five things they need pictures for. They don't tell you exactly what to take a picture of. It's more like, we have these stories that we need pictures for. Can you find something appropriate? Yeah. And I really like that. It's like a scavenger hunt, and I enjoyed that. So going around looking for things that fit the criteria of what you had to take a picture of was fun.

Yeah, I did like that aspect because you're given a fairly vague description of what they need. And I can just give away one minor puzzle, like, just to give you an example because it's one of the easier ones. It's like, we need a story about like road safety and you take a picture of a traffic cone. and that is the answer to that puzzle. So you are both taking pictures of things based on vague descriptions and also solving like little mini puzzles that are fairly satisfying in the game.

Like, what did you think about the puzzles? I will say up front. One way I did get stuck in this game is that you can take pictures of things that aren't vital to your quest. They can just be things... You can take a picture of anything in the game, but that won't be the answer

to the five items you need to take pictures of. But you can use that picture of a non-essential item to solve a puzzle with which is something I didn't No. I thought the pictures you took that weren't being used or are not vital. They were just like, you know, red herrings or just like useless items. But no, if you take a picture of something that's not vital to your quest, you can still use it or give it to someone. And that could be a puzzle solution. Okay. Yeah. I had the opposite experience because I actually solved that puzzle way before I needed to. Because another thing you do is like you have five pictures you take and then the game ends. But then you can go restart the game. and then everything is kind of reset but you have five new pictures you take yeah i mean it's not it's nothing like this but it is kind of a little bit like an adventure game roguelike because once you

go back into the world you know more about it and be like oh you need something about water pollution i know where to go for that yeah that's a good way of putting it actually um so so i did know that you could you could do that and i do like how if you take a picture that you think is um suitable for your article, but it's not the one the game wants you to take. Delores says as much. She says, oh, I don't think this will be a good fit. Yeah, it's a very, very good design. Yes. And I know this is just a little game he put together

with existing assets, but I wouldn't mind a whole game where he plays a full journalist like this. Yeah, it's cool. Like, you can see where how people could use this engine to do that sort of thing with, because he did it with just, you know, existing graphics. And yeah, going back to the design stuff, I did like those little clues the character would give you because they let you know if you're on the right track

like I took a picture of something but it wasn't exactly what I needed and she would say well it has to be more like this I can't just use this it's got to be closer to that and be like okay now I kind of know what I need to do and this is completely non-canonical

this thing takes place a year after Thermalweed Park and you don't see at all like too many of the characters that you met from the first game but it is a nice way if you've never played the game to sort of drop into of the world and get a taste of the music and the graphics and just how it kind of plays. It plays a bit different than the original game.

Yeah, I thought that was great how obviously they anticipated the player's actions. They thought like, oh, they probably take a picture of this thinking it's the solution, but it's not. And so they accounted for that, which is nice of them. The only puzzle I had to look

up the solution for was getting a picture of Thomas Jefferson. Yeah, me too. Oh, but you're American, though. Oh, I mean, I did know that he's on the nickel because, I mean, because I was like, oh, Nickel News, Jefferson is on the Nickel. Where can I find a picture of him and I was just wandering around town? Yeah, the solution is a little clumsy, but again, it's a fun prototype. And I think, like, if you just want to play through it once, it'll be like a good, fun, solid hour or 45 minutes.

I think it gets less fun the more you play through it because you only have so much access to parts of the town. it gets a little monotonous, but that's because I was playing all the loops like back to back almost all at once. So I would say like if you just want to do it once and download it, it is a fun hour. And then you can play it five more times to have more fun with it if you want. Actually, I didn't mind doing that actually. Like I was the same way as you. I played it back to back to back. And it got easier each time. Because the more explore, the more you know what's out there and what you can do. And so it was fun when you saw things or we're able to do things that aren't relevant

to your current assignments but then we start the game again and you get these different assignments you're like oh I know where I can get a picture of this or oh I don't want to do that was satisfying I'll go back and say I actually like my description of this as an adventure game roguelike because your first time is basically

you building a list in your head of like here are all the things in this game and then once you have that list you go back into it four or five more times or five more times rather and then you're like okay I've got the list in my head now what on this list matches up with the list in my head

that could be the solutions and I think it's a cool idea and again it's free so you can't complain about that but what a great little gift to give us during you know quarantine times there's a little more than we park and it's been can you believe it's been three years

since that game came out? That's insane. Yeah I'm not a fan of that or time passing in general although it could pass a bit faster these days because I got stuff to do I wouldn't mind being on an episode about that Yeah, we're going to have one once we get through all of our LucasArts stuff and some tell-tale stuff, but I will have you back for that one, Nina, because of course you are the cover artist for Thimble Weed Park. Also, I played it before it was released to the public.

That's true. You had exclusive access. Yeah, I played an unfinished version, and because of that, there was no way to look up a solution to anything, so that was a unique experience. Well, now you can play through it again and get all those Chivos. Wait, are there new ones? No, but I assume because you played through an unfinished version of the game originally, you didn't get the... achievements. Oh yeah, you're right. See, see. And those are worth so much

for E-Cred. I also never got the voice acting for the final part of the game because they didn't have it in the build that I played. Okay, yeah, definitely worth it. More reason for me to replay this. Yeah, definitely worth of the voice acting in that game is real good. And hopefully this means that Ron Gilbert

is thinking about making a new adventure game. If he's making a new engine, I assume that's like a logical conclusion to this. That is the most exciting part to me. the fact that he is working on this new engine and I can't wait to see what it comes up with. Me too, yes. More Ron Gilbert games, please.

We don't have enough of them in this world. And again, yeah, Nean and I fully endorse the Blue Park, especially now. We all need things to play. And it's such a satisfying adventure game. And if you're listening to this podcast, I assume you like adventure games and Ron Gilbert, as we both do. And I like that the movie park has that Ron Gilbert

touched to just a tone and the dialogue. Like, I don't know what it is, but something about the games that he makes really speaks to me. Maybe it's because I grew up with them, but... They're very Ron-like. Yeah, like, I recently replayed Curse of Monkey Island, a game that I still find very unsatisfying. And then playing this new Dolores Mid-Adventure,

I was like, ah, that's that Ron Gilbert touched it. The Super Monkey Island could have used. I think it's a lot drier. I think he's got a much drier sense of humor. And if you talk to him, he's definitely a very dry guy in a fun way. I think that's what it is. Yeah, me too. I'm just not into super cartooning stuff

that's why I don't like goofy Oh we're back to goofy So leaving this podcast on a sour note Nina is saying down with the goof Again once we see a goofy movie You're going to be fully converted to the church of goof All right You're going to be walking around Disneyland with one of those hats

It's going to be great And then maybe you'd be as tall as me With one of those hats or probably not Yes Nina Thank you so much for being on the podcast As always I appreciate your presence And your thoughts about adventure games Because you are a monkey island expert

So please tell everybody out there, where they can find you, what you're doing now, and also about your new book coming out this August. Yeah, if you have any interest in picking up an all ages graphic novel, pick up Sparks, which is drawn by me and written by Ian Boothby. It's published by Scholastic, so you can find it pretty much anywhere. The second book is coming out in August of this year, and I'm hard at work on the third one currently. And I'm on Twitter at Space Coyoto, that's Space Coyote, with an L instead of an E at the end there. My homepage is SpaceCairobi.com. And I sell original prints and pins there.

If you go to fangamer.com, go to collections, sort by artist, click on the banner. It says, Space Coyote by Nina Matsumoto. You can see all the stuff I've made, especially the stuff for Thimblebee Park. And if you buy Thimblebee Park and play it, if you haven't yet, there's a phone book in the game. You can look up my name and call me in-game and hear my answering machine message. So first people are wearing your lips. Now they're calling you. What is this?

I have a lot of love to give. I'm a jealous fiancé. And you know what? If you make me watch goofy movie, you have to play a Kingsquest game. Fine. It's a deal. All right. Yeah. Then we can finally do Kings Quest episode. We'll talk about Cedric. We'll talk about Jallo. We'll talk about Alexander's Strange Pulling Sensation.

So if I have to do this, you have to make your own podcast about a goofy movie, even though you don't have a podcast. I don't have a podcast. What am I supposed to do? Do a sneaky dragon goofy movie podcast. Oh, I'm actually, you know what? They would probably enjoy talking about that. Yeah, yeah. Sneaky Dragon is your pal's podcast. The author's, sorry, the author of Sparks and the colorist of Sparks have their own podcast called Sneaky Dragon that Nina is on pretty often. And Bob's been on it too. It's true. It's true. Have a listen. And oh, they also do a side podcast called Fansplainers where they talk about movies. Recently, like, they can't go to a movie theater to watch things. So they've been taking suggestions from the audience. And I suggested emoji movie. And that's their latest episode. I highly suggest you listen to it. So yeah, go back into their archives and you can learn all about the emoji movie.

But as for us at Retronauts, thanks so much for listening. We appreciate it very much. And if you want to support the show and get these episodes one week ahead of time and add free, please go to patreon.com slash Retronauts and sign up at the $3 level. And you'll get just that and support the show, which is fully a fan-funded operation. But we have another level. So if you go to patreon.com slash Retronuts and sign up for five bucks a month, you will get two exclusive episodes every month that are not.

not available on the free feed, and those are full-length episodes, by the way. The most recent ones I've done have been an episode about Back to the Future and the Back to the Future games, the Final Fantasy 7 remake, and Final Fantasy 7 Advent Children, a lot of great topics that are only available for $5 and up patrons at patreon.com slash retronauts. You can follow us on Twitter as retronauts, so find us there as well. But as for me, I've been your host for this one, Bob Mackey. You can find me on Twitter as Bob Servo, and of course I have so many other podcasts over on the Talking Simpsons at Patreon.com slash Talking Simpsons, and we do things like Talking Simpsons and

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