Retronauts - Retronauts Episode 324: The Jennifer Hale Interview

Episode Date: September 14, 2020

Whether or not you know her name, you've definitely heard Jennifer Hale's voice if you played a video game in the past 25 years. Named "the most prolific video game voice actor" by The Guinness Book of World Records, Jennifer has an IMDB page that stretches on into infinity, with hundreds of roles in both video games in animation. On this episode, join us as we chat with Jennifer about her long career in video games, how her roles and voice acting technology have changed in the passing decades, and how voice acting is adapting to a COVID-19 world. And be sure to check out Jennifer's role as the narrator for the audiobook version of Christopher Paolini's To Sleep in a Sea of Stars! Retronauts is a completely fan-funded operation. To support the show, and get exclusive episodes every month, please visit the official Retronauts Patreon.

Retronauts is part of the Greenlit Podcast Network. For more information, please go to greenlitpodcast.com. Hello, everybody, and welcome to another episode of Retronauts. I am your host for this one, Bob Mackie, and today we're going to be talking to Jennifer Hale. It is a special interview-focused episode of Retronauts where we just talked to the great voice actor, Jennifer Hale, who is here with me today? It's Jeremy Parrish, and this is my favorite podcast on The Citadel.

I thought so. And we just got off the line with Jennifer, recording this after the interview. We had a great interview with her. We talked about our entire career, the state of the world, how she's dealing with, you know, recording during a pandemic. And in case you don't know, Jennifer, she is a very, very notable and prolific voice actor. I dare you to go to her IMDB page and continue scrolling to the end. I think your finger might get tired because it's just so long.

But in case you don't know, she's played some of her most notable roles have been. Naomi Hunter and Emma Emmerich from the Metal Gear Solid series, Commander Shepard from Mass Effect, Samis from Metroid Prime, Ash from Overwatch, and Bastilla Sean from Knights of the Old Republic. and she has been given such credits as the queen of video game voice acting by the New Yorker. And she was also named the most prolific female voice actor by the Guinness Book of World's Records. And I think, Jeremy, is this the first time we've had a Guinness Book Award winner on the podcast?

That I'm aware of. It's possible that someone snuck one in there when I wasn't paying attention. I'm going to say it's going to be the first. And we should be the podcast with the most episodes at some point in the future. We'll be there. We'll be in that book. someday. Do we get to count the one-up era in here? Yes, yes. I'm grandfathering that in.

All right, cool. Then we're up in the lead. We have to beat Mark Marion, but you know what? I think we're going to outlive him. Just by the nature of time alone. But in case you don't know what's going on with Jennifer, she's actually coming on the show to promote an audiobook. She's going to be the narrator, or she is the narrator, on the newest novel by Christopher Paulini. You might know him. He wrote the four-book inheritance cycle from the 2000s, which started with Aragon and he is now releasing his first adult novel called To Sleep in a Sea of Stars which is releasing September 15th and she is the narrator on that and yes and that should be

available if you're listening to this on the free feed it should be September 15th by now so go check it out online and you can also check out her new song that she released recently too so yeah that was just our little preamble to give you some context so now let's get to our interview with the great Jennifer Hale So we're here with Jennifer Hale. Thank you so much for being on Retronauts. Oh, my gosh, Bob. It's awesome. I'm so happy to be here. And I wanted to start off with a topic that's very relevant.

We're going to talk about your, you know, your history and video game voice acting and all that stuff. But I really would like to know up front how the COVID crisis has affected your day-to-day life as a voice actor. And this, the industry as a whole, I can see in your video, you seem to have a studio set up. Pretty nice studio, to be fair. But how has your life been affected in the industry, too? It's been Mr. Toad's Wild Ride. I bolted at the beginning of COVID in, well, what we thought was the beginning of COVID in L.A. up to where my sister lives and just so happened that some circumstances came about and I was able to jump into a house really near her and there are a bunch of kids on the street, my kids happy.

But the house was empty and I had a studio in L.A. and I didn't have a studio here. So I dove in and with the help of my brother-in-law, my nephews, we ripped a couple rooms apart and insulated and did a lot. lot of the prep work and a good bit of the building of the booth and the studio around it ourselves. So I was down for a good, you know, 45, 60 days. And then I was up and running in this amazing space that I love. I love this booth. So it's affected me in that construction has been very much part of my life as we went along. I miss my friends. I miss my peers very much, as we all do. You know, we're all in that boat, right? But I'm, I'm loving that this part of the industry is still cranking. We didn't miss a step hardly. We just kept going. Everybody picked up their home studio

rigs and away we went. That's great to hear because I feel like weirdly enough, podcasting was the only business that was ready for all of this because we were all just stuck in our homes and podcasting anyways. But yeah, it's great to hear that you can adapt. And do you see this as the future of voice acting? Do you see just being at home more even without a crisis happening around you? I do. I think there's been a change in a lot of people's perspectives. And, you know, we're all really familiar with the difficulties of COVID, but one of the things that we're not as familiar with, I think, are we haven't discussed as much openly, are the blessings of COVID, if you will. I mean, that sounds weird to say, but the silver lining of COVID, which is that instead of

everybody hanging out at the malls all the time and consuming and spending and identifying themselves by everything outside of them, we're all in our own circles. We're at home or we go outside if we need to congregate or, and more often, I should say. and what we do for entertainment has changed significantly. And we're closer to ourselves. We're closer to our circle. However, we define family and friends. We're all closer to that in our own ways.

And our number one priority right now is taking care, taking care of each other, taking care of ourselves. And a world founded and birthed from that place is kind of a cool thought versus a world birthed from consumption and trying to get ahead. Yeah, I agree. think it is teaching a lot of us what is truly important, even though it's not the most ideal way to learn. You know, I don't know that we would have taken it on. Yeah, that's true. Have we not been forced to? You know, it's, I'm anybody who's spent like five seconds on my Twitter feed

knows how I feel about the corporate machine and the corporate establishment and how much that has separated us from our real authentic and kind of deeper selves. And when I look back at the last, you know, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 or more years, you see the growth. You see the growth. of corporate machinery, right? You see all that growing. And the planet, you know, nature has raised its head and gone, no, no, no, don't do that. And corporations find a way around it. And, you know, nature tries again, and corporations find a way around it. Some bigger, better piece of machinery to defeat nature and bend it to the corporation, to the will of machinery kept happening. And so the planet went, all right, what's the smallest thing I can send? Here you go. And we've all been sent to

our collective rooms to think about what we've done. And think about what's possible. Like people get to reinvent. People get to, yes, it's incredibly hard. And listen, I'm not dismissing the difficult financial and emotional and physical pieces of this. They exist. We all know they exist. And so let's also spend a minute on what's possible. What can I create out of this? Who can I become out of this? What can I redefine for myself that's really a true piece of my heart? How do I actually want to live if I just strip everything away. It's like, like I've been on the, sort of on the road since March, and that I wasn't in my normal house and closet. And I was thinking about this this morning. I was like, I've been living out of these same clothes that fit in my suitcase. And I made

all this decision in this move in about a 72 hour period. And I came across a box of my old stuff yesterday. And I was like, oh, this is so heavy. It weighs so much. I don't need it. And I thought, I'm going to go through this box, not like, what do I get rid of? But like, what what deserves a piece in my space right now and everything else I will share with the world for whoever needs it. So what decisions would you say you've come to as a result of this? You mentioned before we started recording that you recently recorded your first song, released your first song. Is that part of it? Is that one of the new horizons you're exploring? That is 100% one of the new horizons. Like I had, you know, I've had all this noise in my head. I've been listening to this wonderful guy's

name is Jim Fortin, and he's got some really cool thought-provoking questions. And one of them led me to, where are all the places I've decided that I shouldn't do A, B, or C, because I didn't think it was good enough. It didn't measure up. Like people who, you know, do you want to start your own podcast? Oh, but I don't know. There's already so many like that. Just do it anyway. For me, I started singing in clubs and I was 15, and I started writing songs. I think I was 11 or 12. And I just decided I fell into the cultural trap of, oh, it's not good enough. Somebody's already done it, never mind, you know? And then when I was about 23, I had to choose between acting and singing because of time, because just the way my time was constructed at that point. And

acting was paying my bills. So I was like, here we go. Let's do it. You know, I had, I committed. And I'm very glad I did. And yes, I have recently said, you know what? Life's not getting any longer. Let's not waste time. Let's do this. Let's stop fussing about whether it's perfect or it's right or how are people going to see it? Just do it because you need to do it because it's a piece of your heart and your soul. Just do it. So let's go over the beginning of your career really quick here just to give some context as to where you came from. And you began in more traditional live action acting, but soon became more prolific in voice acting. What was that transition like for you? And was it something you were expecting in your career to happen to become a

voiceover artist? Not in the least. I followed the path. I fortunately, well, For me, every time I followed my intuition and where the path naturally and easily opens for me, it goes well. And every time I second guess and go, I don't know, it doesn't go well. Or, I mean, sure, you know, like, that doesn't work. I went to a fine arts high school and, but I was singing in rock clubs at the time. And so I kind of had a dual attention going. And then I got a job at a video production house right next to an audio studio and Batwell Studios. And they called me over just to do a voiceover because I had, you know, I was going to a fine art school. I could talk and I could get rid of a southern accent. This was down in Birmingham, Alabama. And I was blown away that somebody paid me. I forget if it was $30 or $35 to talk. And so I was all over that because I have two dads. And my second dad, the one who was most present when I was growing up, he used to call me the little capitalist piglet. Because I always had an eye for, okay, money to me was safety and security.

And that's what I wanted freedom more than anything and money to me could get me there. So I put on a little suit and I bugged the guys, Greg and Courtney at the studio to help me remake my demo over and over and over because the learning curve is steep in the beginning. And I cold called ad agencies door to door just to make some money. And then I went to Atlanta to grow my market a little bit and got my first film audition. And I was like, that's what I love. That is super fun. That's the form of this particular part of my creativity that I want to do. And then I moved to LA and I got some work, but not enough to pay the bills.

And at that point, I'm my gosh, back in Birmingham and Atlanta, I'd done hundreds of voiceovers and local commercials and stuff, just cutting my teeth here and there. And after, I think it was like two years, I was like, okay, you know what, I'm going to make a voice. I just had an intuition, honestly. The instinct came, the intuition, the they that I have no idea what that is, but that thing that speaks to us and guides us, said make a voiceover tape. I was like, okay. So I took all the money I didn't have. I think it was like $1,000 at that time, which was, you know, a long time ago. That was in the 90s. And I hired the woman in town who was supposed to be the best. And she sure was, Cindy Acres. And we made my reel. And she really liked and appreciated my skill set. So she picked up the phone and called Cynthia McLean at SVV and got me an audition or got me a meeting. And they liked my tape. They took me on. And a month later, I had my first audition for a cartoon series. And I I was not allowed to watch cartoons as a kid. So I did not know what I was doing, but I just went on pure instinct, and it was where on earth is Carmen San Diego.

And that was how I fell into it. It wasn't something I had set my sights on. I had set my sights on, you know, living a creative life, live, I have a business degree. And I remember sitting in university and going, I could not sit in an office nine to five. I will lose my mind. That is not me. I know what's going to happen, but this isn't me. And the funny thing was at the time I was already supporting myself as a

an actor. It just didn't click in my head. I thought, I'm just going to keep doing this until I don't do this. And I'm still doing this. So the common San Diego cartoon was your first kind of big voice acting gig. Was that sort of your backdoor into working in video games, given that it was based on a video game property? Or did that kind of emerge later in your career? That emerged later. That was, I want to see 94 was when we recorded that. And I did my first game, my first game I ever did was for that show. I think. Yeah, it was for that show. We did the video game for it. And then after that, at the time, you know, when you do an animation session, they book you in a four hour block and you're in the room. Now, this isn't dubbing. This is a traditional animation workflow where you

record first and then they animate to the voices. So we would all be in a room together, the whole cast, and we'd spend four hours sort of, you know, going back and forth, sharing the load. And, you know, when there was a lot of cutting up and being ridiculous, it took almost four hours, but most of the time it didn't take the whole four hours because, you know, depends. If there's a lot of action, it's going to take longer, right? Games were quite different. And I remember what I remember of when games really started coming on to the forefront and starting using us voice actors, it was very intense. Like that four hour session was not a shared load deal. And it was four hours. And it was a one person show for four hours. It's perform, perform, perform, perform, perform. You know, and it's cold reading. We didn't get the scripts ahead of time. And it was out of sequence. It was a real, it was a completely different skill set in a lot of ways. It was a complete, well, a set of additional skills that we weren't yet versed in. Now, I love real estate. Again, here's the capitalist theme. But I'm a compassionate capitalist. Let me just say that. And I believe in sustainable capitalism, but we can discuss that later. I jumped in and said yes to pretty much anything that I was right for. Because I also, like I've been in this business. since I was in high school and I know that you're in fashion some days and you're out of fashion some days. Well, some years. And I remember, you know, when I first jumped onto the animation scene, I booked show and then another show and then another show and then another show. I was all

over the place. And I knew enough to know, okay, then they're going to take a break and I'm going to be kind of background and then I'll be back in another wave and that's just how it goes. There's ebbs and flow as a fashion, right? And so when And one aspect, I looked at it as animation and commercials, and then games started to really become a thing. So I sort of would keep an eye on those three to, all right, where's my workflow? Where am I at? And I don't track stuff.

I don't keep track of my auditions and my success percentage and all that. That shuts down my creative side. I do what I call study and forget it. I go, all right, universe, this is what this me right now thinks that would be great. I'd like the money to be about here I'd like the workload to be about here I really want to work with these kinds of people on things that feel like this

and I let you know and I show up in my day and I work and it all falls into place so that game came out in I believe 1995 that were in the world was Carmen San Diego game and that was at a time when voice acting was starting to become

an expected feature in a video game and I was just curious how much has your job changed in terms of the technology involved and what's demanded of you when it comes to video game voice acting since that first role 25 years ago? That's a great question.

It has evolved substantially. At that time, the visuals were what they were. They were not facial subtleties. There wasn't nearly as much motion capture going on facially to really bring to life characters. So the acting was a little more

over the top, a little more indicating, a little more like, what? You know. And I mean, if you look at the recording of, say, a game like Mass Effect where it was a trilogy, so it took a few years to get all that done, there was an evolution. To me, I found it to be a noticeable evolution just during that period of time. I mean, we started out in a more cinematic zone, but where we got to end up was deep cinematic zone. You know, that Michael Kane always said, you know, thought registers on camera and it does. We're now getting into the age, I believe, where thought registers on the mic. So those demands in terms of detail, et cetera. And also used to be we'd do one set of grunt sounds. Like you get hit, and they use that every time, you know. Then people started to go, oh, that's annoying to hear that exact same impact sound for hours and hours and hours on end. So then we got into, all right, give us a set of 10 different kinds of getting hit.

And that's where you get into some really cool stuff. Like, am I hit in the mouth or am I hit in the gut or am I hitting the leg? You know, like it's going to feel different. And what am I hit with? Am I hit with a bullet? Am I hit with electricity? Am I hit with a rock? Am I hit with a fist?

Like, that's where you get all those fine details. I think make a difference when you get to the other end and someone's playing the game. If I have that in my head, you're having a better time when you play. So you mentioned kind of the approach you took to Mass Effect. And I'm interested in talking about that specifically because you had, I don't want to say a redundant role, but there were two actors, you and Mark Mears performing for the same role. And he played a role that I played. Right, exactly. And I personally played with a commander shepherd voiced by Jennifer Hill, all the way through the trilogy. But I am curious to know, like, how do you approach that and, you know,

kind of make that role your own? Is there collaboration? Is there, you know, comparing notes? Or is it basically just you go in and you just say, I'm, this is mine, I'm going to do it. I always go in and say, this is mine. I'm going to do it. And that lives within the framework of what the creators need from me. The thing I think people don't, maybe always don't internalize unless they're in the business is that the people making these games, games are so busy. Their workload is insane. And I am there to solve their problems. So there's not time for, there wasn't time for Mark and I to discuss. And I didn't know Mark at the time. I hadn't had the absolute delight of meeting him. He's such a beautiful human being. And he's so talented. People

have no idea. He's like a comedic wizard. Anyway, so what my experience of that was was that, was that, we got to the session, and they said, we've recorded these lines already with the male version of you, which I was familiar with the concept they had told me. And I was very excited, actually, that they were doing this. And they said, you have to match in the first take, match him exactly. And I said, okay. Because their line, like with the way BioWare in particular, and a couple of other companies work, you cannot, you cannot change a letter. You cannot change a piece of punctuation or technically it's going to. give them nightmares on the other end. It's loosened up a tiny bit over the years, but it's still, you're making work for them. So stick to the script, if you will. And so what I chose to do was I would give them exactly what they asked for the first take. And then the second take, I would give them my version, my spin on what just happened, which is the same timing, the same general sketch, but it had my heart and soul in it. And then the next take, I would do what I wanted to do. So they had three options and I don't know where they landed on a lot of that stuff. I know

that the ones where I got to kind of loosen up and bring my soul to it had more life in them and I suspect that probably is the way that they went. But I don't know and I'll never know, you know. And also that was the sort of formal structure in my head the first couple of sessions. I think shortly after that, I just went for like, okay, got the general timing, got this, okay, great. And then I just played within that zone. I knew what they needed and I knew the technical reasons. This is one thing for anybody out there who wants to perform in games, I did this on camera and it served me beautifully. Spend some time on the production side, like literally on the production. Like when I was a PA, and then I was a PA in a place where I shot video, I framed shots,

I helped light, I helped set up, I helped run cable. I knew what a framing problem was. It's like, oh, we've got this actor here and now we've got to clean up the entire hallway. You know, like I was able to use that as an actor on the other, you know, when I was in front of the camera. As I've edited my own stuff, like I know what a pain in the butt is it is when actors have certain habits, when you do certain things. So I understood technically what they needed in terms of the timing and what their issues were to a point. Speaking of Mass Effect, I was basically just trying to read every interview with you possible. And a lot of them were, and a lot of them were done around the release of Mass Effect 3. and the New Yorker profile on you is great.

I recommend everyone out there read it. Tom Bissell. He's, God, he's a delightful man and a brilliant guy. But one thing that surprised me about that interview about you is that you do not play video games. And in fact, part of that interview is you sitting down to play Mass Effect 2, I believe, for the first time. It was awful.

Has that changed about you? And if not, like, what has being a voice actor taught you about gaming as a non-gamer? That has not changed. I don't play. I watch people play, though, so that I stay. I'm up on things. Like I check it out. I check out the cinematics.

I check out the process. I stay informed about it. My learning curve is so steep. I just am horrible at it. And also, I don't have a lot of free time. And when I have free time, my, what feeds my soul. And I think if you have a full, well-fed soul, you can come in and do good work, is to go out and be in life, to have adventures and experiences that make you,

I shall speak for myself, that make me a well-rounded human. human being. And then I can come in and be a full human being when I work. Yeah, Tom made me played massified. First of all, I'm not good at the controller. And secondly, when we work, we work in a vacuum. You want to mine some unmind gold. Sit down and get some voice directors in here with you guys because they are, they're extraordinary. They set the tone for modern pop culture. People don't realize. They really have a significant role in setting that tone. So I rely on the voice director to tell me, oh, well, in this scene, you're six feet away from them. And because we also, we record out of sequence. So I don't know where on the timeline I am.

I might have punched the person. And then, you know, this is when I first meet them. And so which moment is that? Is it when they betrayed me or is it when I first meet them or is it after we've made up? And are there six other people in the room? Am I hiding this information? Am I sharing this information? Am I physically wounded? Am I physically comfortable? Is there generalized danger upon us? There are a million things to know in a scene, which when you're doing an on-camera scene, many, many, many of those are evident because you're on a set talking to another person and you got a story that you read before you got in there. It's not cold reading. You know, game acting is 95% cold reading. Like, here you go. Okay, here's

the scene. Woo! Take three's going to market. Beautiful. Oh, I didn't know that. that, you know, about the scene. So watching it back, I was really uncomfortable. I thought, gosh, if I had known that physical detail of the environment, I would have, that would have impacted how I delivered that line. But there's no way to do that. So that's part of way I don't play. Yeah, you mentioned the voice director. I find that very fascinating because it seems like I'm just not sure how much context you need to do your job because there's so, there are so many roles that you've done, especially in the Metal Gear Solid series, where I feel. like they would have to sit you down for hours to give you context for the role of Naomi in that game, just because even players are confused sometimes about what's going on in the story. Yeah, Metal Gear's a whole other, you know, Hideo, and that's a whole other universe. Actually, in that, one of the greatest, in addition to the voice director, just walking through that with Dave Hader was, that's one of the rare ones we got to record together several times. And his

knowledge of Japanese culture, of the creators involved. and all that was extraordinary. And I would just listen. He didn't know this. I've never told him this. I would just listen to him in casual conversation and go, oh, okay, now I get it.

Okay, got it. Okay, now I understand. You know, and also, you're never going to know the full detail of the universe because your character doesn't. It was like when I did this audio book recently to sleep in a sea of stars,

I purposefully did not read too far ahead so I would bring none of the energy of no foreshadowing into any piece of my energy when I was reading. And that's quite similar to the way characters live. They only know their universe and their experience. They don't know the 10 other scenes that

impacted their character unless their character has lived it. You know, it's sort of a fine line to walk. It's interesting that you mentioned Metal Gear specifically as an opportunity to read with the other actors, since in that game you played someone who was only communicating by radio. So I feel like this is kind of an ironic inversion there. I know. Well, yeah, I do remember very distinctly, though, some of those early sessions we were together and some of the later such later iterations we were together. I think though with Emma, I was only, I think it was by myself with Emma. Yeah, with Metal Gear especially, I'm not sure if you did this any other time in your career, but you had to come back to re-record essentially the same dialogue for Naomi with the

first game and the remake. There was a remix and I'm not sure why and I don't ever ask these these things. I just go, okay. Was that a bizarre experience just to sort of relive what you did six years ago with the same character and the same, like, basic story and dialogue and everything like that? You know, recording that game is always cool and recording anything at any point in time, especially further down one's lifeline, because your skills are better, right? And your understanding of anything is better. And that's always a cool experience. So we talked about how it's often very difficult to record with other actors. Has that become less likely over time as, you know, productions get tighter, as games get more complex? How often do you actually get to

record with other actors when it comes to video game recordings. Well, we were starting to record together more. Actually, although technology, there are people are starting to work it out now where we can do group records with the new COVID setups, which is awesome. The trend has been to more group records. And then when you throw mocap in that mix, because I've done a good bit of mocap, that's divine. I love that when you get to bring the physical embodiment of that character to life as well. That's fantastic. Yeah. I mean, the trend has started. People are still. starting to catch on, but it's still a huge, untapped gold mine. You put actors in a space where they can hear each other and communicate while they're recording your project, and that's

the gold people should tap into. There is an extra bit of magic in life that happens when you do that, that you don't get otherwise. When I think of Bioshock Infinite, Oliver and I got to record together. We were in separate spaces, but the way we were divided, they had us behind glass so we could see each other through the glass and so we could play off of each other and there were a couple of times we're actually in the same booth just had a glass divider between us for technical you know technical reasons but and also that was the game where ken levine i mean he was god he's so brilliant the conversations we had around that production just about the nature of reality and quantum physics and dear god story and ah it was amazing he would do this incredible thing which i

it's a common like technically not every dev gets to do this when technically you can one must also be very secure with one's material enough to he would get it in the can as written he would get a

really couple you know a few good options on what was on the page and then he would just tell us to play and we would just play and it was amazing it was so great so you mentioned doing mocap work And I'm curious how that works in video game voice acting versus, you know, like film acting, you know, for when you're a character playing a live action role or even, you know, going to be replaced with CG or something.

Are you doing your line readings as you're performing or is it mostly focused on facial motion capture while you're reading? I'm curious how that plays out. There's no one way. There are a variety of ways in everything you just named. I've done gigs where I wore the head rig and the cameras in my nose while I'm in the boot. booth and I'm recording, you know, looking like, I'm like, no, if I turn, you can hear that I've turned and there I'm back, you know, you hear that whole thing. But the way they attach the mic, it's to my, it's to my face, right? And I, I record that way. And then with motion capture, full motion capture, you're doing everything at once. A lot of games will record the voice separate from the bodies and then mash them together later. You don't get, unless it's the same person to me, you don't get the full life of the character that way.

that's just that's my perspective and I correct me if I'm wrong that's just my my take on it I love that I love the bringing to life of the full being motion capture is really an interesting animal too because your body is doing sort of theater while your voice is doing film and TV in that kind of a project unless you're doing a more broad style project um like a knack or something like that um and then frequently like in God of War, I'm staring, because Kratos is eight feet tall, I'm staring at a tennis ball, you know, a foot and a half over the actor's head because that's where my eyeline needs to be as I'm seducing the tennis ball. That's actually a person standing in front of me. It's a fascinating combination. And the pacing is quite different. Like I remember, I think what was it, shameless or something. I was doing an episode of a show, you know, regular TV show. And I remember being there going, wow, man, their process is slow. Because they have so many moving parts. to put together, right? And they're doing it all at once. They're not animating later. You know, they're not generating later. Rendering later. They're doing it now. And I was like, this wasn't a long time to get, you know, a couple of scenes done. Because, you know, you forget. It's like every year or two. Like, oh, yeah, right. This takes time. And then motion capture, you're doing several pages a day. But, you know, and you're cranking your way through it because it's a sketch. You know, you don't have to worry about the exact lighting and the exact

props in the exact setting. I'm carrying a gray cardboard box that's my vault of everything that matters in the universe. And I'm running up a little ramp and I'm jumping off a two, you know, a three foot high square, you know, plywood thing to be jumping onto a ship. I'm hanging onto a ladder and

flailing my arms out to that for Marvel VR. You know, I'm hanging on the side of a piece of scaffolding to be hanging off of an airplane. It's a lot of pretend. It's a fabulous combination. What do you think are some of the more common misconceptions about video game voice acting? There's one that I'd like to banish forever. Oh, let's hear it. Yeah, don't even ask me this question because you think it's funny. Do you act too? Oh, no. Man, I have to, I literally

have to resist the impulse to throw, you know, a right hook. Like, don't say that to me. Yeah, the misconception is it's just talking. The misconception is it's easy. The misconception is that anyone can do it. There was a misconception that came up around the strike, which is that, you know, you make all that money for not very much time. We're paid not just for the time that we're in there. We're paid for the years that it took us to develop these skills and the multiple times a week we work for free through auditioning, through training, through everything else. And that's not whining. That's just simply the equation. Like when I call my plumber, I don't say, Jesus, that was a lot for 30 minutes. You know, it wasn't just that 30 minutes. It took him a long time to learn those skills and get them right. Please, God, do those right. Right, and the work isn't always consistent either. No, it's definitely not consistent. We have to be money managers as well. In this quarter on the Greenlit podcast network, Chris Sebs and Matt Wilson, and in this quarter, VHS Audities, confusing animation, and modern not-so classics.

Plus snacks, movie fighters. We watch movies and beat them up. Running Diagnostics in three, two. Men like that is a podcast. Good so far? That really sucks. Oh, no. Shut her down.

They thought they could make something funny. They can't do anything. They can't. Listen, I might like that. How does Bloodborn stack up against, say, Oregon Trail? And is Bomberman just loadrunner from a different point of view? Find out on Hardcore Gaming 101's top games, where we objectively, definitively, and scientifically rank the games you nominate for our ever-growing list.

HG 101's top games. Twice a week, every week, right here on Greenlit. Hey, everybody, this is Andrew from Superhero Stuff You Should Know, and we are proud to be the latest edition to the Greenlit Podcast Network. If you're a superhero fan, our show will put your knowledge to the test. Did you know Tim Burton almost made a Batman musical? Or how Superman almost had a love story with his own cousin? That's disgusting.

But it's true. We cover it all, mixing clips with commentary, sketches, and impersonations. So tune in to Superhero Stuff You Should Know, available on iTunes, Spotify, and YouTube, and everywhere you get your podcast. So, you know, to adlib in when working on Bioshock Infinite, how often are you given the chance to, let's say, maybe improve a line if you're in the booth saying, oh, it might be better if I say it this way. Are you given that much leeway or is that just something every word is locked down from the very

beginning? That is not a liberty I take lightly. I might think it's an improvement, but my first thought, when I, when a line isn't working for me, I don't go to, it should be different. I've trained myself to go to, okay, what am I missing? Is there a piece of the character that would speak. this way that I'm missing? Is there something about the universe or the world that I'm missing? Is there something about the moment that's happening that I'm missing that would

that would necessitate the words to come out this way? I go there first. And if I can't find it and if it feels like it's going to be inauthentic and just in my gut, I go, oh, God. Because people, especially when people are newer, the written word communicates very differently than the spoken word, very differently. And what looks great in print, when you say it out loud, you're like, oh, that's a little stilted, you know. And also, I think there's a trust that develops the more you do the craft where less really works. You can say in four words what you wrote in 11, you know, then do it. Just trust because the intention behind the person saying those words, trust the actor and trust the person that's going to listen to it eventually.

And just trust. That raises the level on everything. But in those moments, I will say, hey, could I try something? I'll give them what they wrote on the page because they wrote it. Writers make the world go around. Like, if you tried to write something, it's hard. And none of us would have a job without that, right? So I will give it a go.

And then I'll say, can I try something? I just had a thought. And I rarely ever had somebody say, no. Are there any particular roles that have been especially challenging in that regard for you? And if so, like, what was your solution for, you know, to kind of get yourself into that role and to say, you know, I need to understand this character? I have been on a couple projects where people were less experienced. And there's a few pieces of that. They don't always know how to communicate. They don't always know that their engagement in that moment of recording matters and their energy because some people will, because they're anxious or nervous, they'll sit back and just sort of shut down. And as an actor, your heart, you're being, your energies, you're wide open. And when somebody, you're working with somebody who's shut down, it does heart. If you shut down too, your work is less. You have to stay open. And if you've ever been around anybody where you're open, and they're shut down. You know, your move is like, oh, shut down too. This feels a little safer, a little better. We can't. So that's one piece of it. The other piece is then sometimes the words are

awkward. And I have just said, hey, I'm noticing something. This feels like it would be really powerful. Could I make this adjustment? And I just repeat it a little more often. I just bring it up a little bit more often. But you have to be delicate because it's somebody's words. You know, And it is my job to solve problems. It's my job to make it work. That's what I'm there for. So you have been voice acting in video games for 25 years now. And I'm just curious, have the types of roles available to female voice actors

broadened over the years? What is your perspective on that? Yes, they have. My perspective is yes. I have a very specific take on it, which is I request that. This is a request. This is like a, hey, if you're a director, creator of any kind, a casting person, producer, anybody involved in game,

production of anything of any kind that's creative, please, please throw all gender and ethnicity out of your casting unless it's very specific to what's happening in that moment. Unless that character is specifically referring to their anatomy or their hometown, throw it out. You're going to get a lot more interesting project. A lot more interesting, a lot more universal, and a lot more reflective of what is and where we're all going.

That was one of the things that really appealed to me about Mass Effect was that, you know, when I was playing with the female version of Commander Shepard, it wasn't like, oh, this is Commander Shepard, but she's a girl. It was just, this is Commander Shepard, and she's out there to, you know, save the cosmos and kick ass when she needs to. Yeah, I think the world finally woke up to what women are actually like. I mean, I feel, I still pinched myself that I got to, I got to do that. I got to pick up that machete and cut that trail and holy cow. And I was one of the fists that went through the glass ceiling on that one.

And that is an honor I will live with just treasure for the rest of my days. Roles have definitely changed. And I don't spend a lot of time on things that I don't like mentally because it drags my energy down and why would you bother? Just go do what you want. Go and make it so. Don't complain. I will express that I have lived with a certain amount of frustration about, again, it comes from, you know, I pin it on the corporate mentality because the corporate decision makers control a lot of money

and a lot of product that gets made. And they had a perception that women are a certain way and women are in a certain box. And look, it takes a lot of self-control on my part, not just to take my fist and pound that box to pieces on a regular basis. Because, you know what, I have to stop because I'm going to swear and I'm not going to swear. Oh, you can swear. Go for it. No, it's a personal commitment. That's okay. Right now, it's temporary. But no. I admire yourself control. I have a 10 year old son and I would like in one day to be able to listen to what his mama said with respect. And that only struck me a few years ago.

So he's going to listen to some stuff before this and go, geez, Mom, what in the world were you thinking? I think it's, we don't say this word in my house, but I think it's just flat out stupid to underestimate women like this. This is ridiculous. And it's so obviously about power and control. And it's so obviously about fear. I mean, if you look back at the history of women before 2,000 years ago, when all the matriarchal societies were sort of crushed under the machine, genery of the feudal thing. I mean, look, I'm going to go off on a tangent. I'm just going to stop. We're fans of all forms of history here. Yeah. Women and men, this is the thing. Like,

we are different and we are both amazing. And those are just not words. Those are realities. Like, one of the things that I deeply hope going forward is that as women are given more opportunities and included, that we do not turn around and do to men what was done to us. We do not marginalize and exclude and dismiss and demean and control. And I don't think we will because we've lived through it. There'll be some who do, as there always are. But it's time enough, enough already. I agree. I think frankly, we've screwed things up enough. So. Well, look, and it's like, what's that thing in men in black? Tommy Lee Jones? A person is smart. The people are stupid. You know, like a man gets it. Many, many, many,

many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, a man, so gets it in his bones. Men as a collective, I think driven by the structures of power that were in place, which I will assign several of those to, you know, organize religion, et cetera, have held on to power. And banking, et cetera, have held on to power by any means necessary. And a lot of that was crushing women. And there are women who have subscribed to it as well. Because it's easy to be infantilized, right? It's a lot easier than making decisions.

It's a lot easier than getting out there and cutting a path. I think we've seen a lot of that over the past few years, especially. Definitely. It's really kind of come to the fore. But this is a similar question to, in terms of the roles of women broadening in voice acting. I was just curious, like, you were there, again, from 95 onwards. Like, how did you see the writing change? And what was the first game you worked on that genuinely surprised you?

Like, I didn't think a video game could do this or talk about this. Man. You know what I saw change? The wardrobe. Definitely true. That was one of my favorite changes. The wardrobe and the cup size. I was like, really?

I would never fight in that. No, you're not making him wear that, are you? That was one of the major changes, ironic, really. And I, you know, there was, it was really, my girlfriend called me one time. She was in Hawaii, and she's like, I'm reading this magazine and you're in it. I was like, what? They never called me. I said, what did they say?

It was just like some page with random quotes from people. And she said, they quoted you in here saying, I like to take the boys jobs. I was like, oh, yeah, that would be me. That doesn't answer the question, but I, yeah. there wasn't a moment where I went, oh, that's the change? Because I wasn't looking at it in that perspective. I sort of occupy the way big, big picture zone and the really close up zone, super specific zone. Those are my zones of go, I guess, because I'm looking at, I feel, I feel large trends. I do feel them in a big way. And I feel where I want to go in a big picture way. And then my job is to show up and be as specific as possible in the moment.

so I don't really sit back and analyze the games I'm in in that way. I'm grateful to have the work on the day, and I hope I fulfill the writer's vision and the dev's vision. And that's as far as I go, because anything else is out of my control, so I just don't spend any time on it. So I'm sure people are aware of your bigger roles like Commander Shepard and Mass Effect, and Naomi in the Metal Gear Solid series. I wanted to also ask you,

what are some lesser-known roles that you're very proud of that you want people to seek out, games that aren't maybe as well-known as those bigger ones? Astrid in the Long Dark Princess Morbucks in the Powerpuff games Um Bioshock Infinite That was a freaking dream and a half I love all the different Star Wars things

I've gotten to be a part of Because I've done a bunch of different characters And Marvel, it's been fun Doing all the Marvel stuff Oh my gosh And I can't talk about this I have something coming up I think we're still a year away

Holy gods I'm insanely excited I'm insanely excited It is an aspect of me I have not gotten to play with on this largest scale in quite some time. And I'm super proud, super overjoyed. I love the people I'm working with. And I love the property. And I can't wait for you guys to see it, but I can't say what it is. Given your career, it seems like you probably spent half a day signing NDAs.

You know, I kind of, here's that reference again. I kind of men in black myself when I finished the session. I'm like, I don't know. What was that? I don't remember so much of what I've done because a couple of things, because I do wipe it out of my head, and because we work under, you know, code names most of the time, and because I'm super, super deeply in the moment when I'm doing it, and I move on. And there's not enough room in my brain file cabinets for everything. We didn't really touch upon your animation career. And I was just curious, how different is animation voice acting from video game voice acting? And have they become more similar over the years? I think animation acting has especially recently been informed by games, you know, in terms of pop culture and stuff. And I talked earlier about the process and the difference in the process that you're sharing the load in animation session and your one person show over, you know, several hours in a game session. That's a difference. Getting the scripts ahead of time in animation versus not in games, all that stuff.

And there's an intensity. And it could be the types of games that I've done more of, but there's an intensity to the world of a game. There's a deep universe shaking importance often to what's going on in games and stuff. It's very life or death a lot. And also there's a lot of sci-fi in the gaming world. Sci-fi and fantasy stuff that just feels delicious. I love it. Do you think there are things that work in video games, you know, speaking as an actor,

that you couldn't really do in other mediums? There are things that work in animation that I can't do everywhere else. I can't be this person for hours and hours and hours in a video game because you'd never want to lose it to them. You'd want them to go away because it's really annoying. I'm sure I could find a version, but it would still get annoying even if I was in this space for hours and hours and hours. Are there things that fly in games that don't fly in animation? I don't know. It's all skies the limit out there, you know?

I mean, there's a concept in, you know, a theater and film of all sorts, which is willing suspension of disbelief. Like the audience has to suspend that and go in and accept that the story in the world are real. And, you know, you get a lot more agreement on that in animation and in games than you do in films. You know, you can only push it so far in a movie because you've got an actual physical human being tied to it. If I'm being, you know, a flying elephant or a, you know, a speaking tiger, I can get away with a ton. There's like all bets are off, whether it's a game or animation. There's just such a broad possibility in that zone. And there's just like, all bets are off. It's true. It's true, really Wonka. You know, it's a world of

pure imagination. So the work you do is primarily focused on the U.S. market, I assume. Just kind of, like, I don't know, I'm kind of thinking in terms of the suspension of disbelief here. I feel like Americans have a very literal approach to the media they consume, whereas a lot of other cultures don't necessarily have that. They find suspension of disbelief, even in live action, more easy to come by. I don't know if you feel that's the case. I'm curious if you have any kind of personal experience with that to back it up or to debunk it. It's funny. You just brought up two things to mine.

It was very funny that Americans are more uptight about the use of their imaginations than other cultures. And the other thing, too, that's been very interesting to me is how the U.S. is very U.S. centric. Like, my games go out to English-speaking people around the planet. Australia, England, you know, Canada. Canada is a major player in these realms and Australia. Like, there's so many places they go. And I do think it's funny that America gets so snotty about some of that stuff.

It's, it's, but every culture's got their stuff that bugs them, right? You know, yeah, don't praise, don't praise certain cultures. Like, what's wrong with you? Why are you telling me good things about myself? Shut up, you know? Everybody's got their quirks, right? So to wrap up, I do want to know, and our listeners, of course, want to know. Can you tell us about your new song and also to sleep in a sea of stars, your never.

writing the audio book of that upcoming novel. Actually, it'll be out. If you're listening to this on the Patreon, it'll be out in a week. If you're listening to this on the free feed, it's out right now. So go check it out. Yes. Oh, my God. Yeah, I met Christopher Paolini at a convention in Australia several years ago. And he mentioned that he was working on something that he might one day want me to do the audiobook for. And I said, that sounds cool. I've never done an audiobook. And then he contacted me a few months ago, and I had still never done an audiobook. And so we worked it out. And to have a book like this be my first audiobook was daunting. It was, it's nearly 900 pages. And there are 50 characters. And I was so grateful. We had Sal, our engineer and Callum, our producer, who were on the line at all times helping me stay in the zone.

Because an audiobook, I've listened to several. And what I perceived as a complete beginner was that when I did characters, they can't be full, full, full, fully flesh. out character voices because it'll throw you out of the book. But they do have to have a flavor. And that being said, there were a couple characters that just took over. It was just a couple of them. I was like, oh, this one just, this one will have no middle ground. This one just has to come out of my mouth this way. And it was really fun. My God, what a beautiful book. It was an amazing experience. I loved it. I got kind of spoiled, I guess. Because I mean, it's fun because my first cartoon series was where on Earth is Carmen San Diego, where it was like we met all the educational TV requirements. And but we were on regular TV and we had a perfectly

balanced gender mixed cast and an ethnically mixed cast every week. And at that time, that didn't happen. And I think my next show was Skeleton Warriors, where it was 10 men and two women and I had maybe two lines a week. I was like, oh, oh. So I don't know if I've been spoiled in the audiobook world in the same way, perhaps so. But it was an amazing thing to do. It was extraordinary. And yeah, so that was a blast. And then my song, I actually released it during the recording of To Sleep in a Sea of stars. The song's called Never. And I think you can find it on every platform in the world. It's on my Twitter bio. I'm at J. Hale Tweets. And then it's on my Instagram bio, which is at J. Hail Graham. You can find a link there. And I love this song. It's a little bit minimalist. And it's, I love it. I'm happy I can

say that. I love that song. Excellent. So thanks for joining us, Jennifer. Again, the book is called To Sleep in a Sea of Stars. It's by Christopher Paulini. It's out September 15th. And it should be out. By the time you're listening to this, it'll be out in stores, or I guess you're going to download that. You're not going to go to a store at this point. Thanks, you guys. It was just a pleasure to be here. And to everybody out there, I want to just say, thank you for listening. Thank you for watching. Thank you for playing. Thank you, thank you. So thanks again to Jennifer Hill for being on the show. Please check out to sleep in a sea of stars coming out September 15th.

And also, she is on Twitter at Jay Hill tweets. If you enjoy this interview, please tweet at her and let her know. And I think we'd all appreciate that. As for us, if you want to support the show and get all these episodes one week ahead of time and at free and at a higher bit rate, please go to patreon.com slash retronauts sign up for three bucks you get just that but also if you want extra episodes two extra episodes every month sign up for five bucks a month you'll get just that and we've been doing those extra episodes since the beginning of the year so i dare say there are

probably close to 20 episodes you might not have heard by now is that correct yeah it'd be like 17 yeah plus plus there's the weekend content every every weekend diamond fight writes a column and he started doing audio for it, too, just for the hell of it. So that's, there's like 20 of those at this point. Yeah. So there's a lot of content just in the backlog that you can get by going to the, you know, the second tier of the podcast, the Patreon subscription. Yeah, if you're a fan of the show and you want to support us,

there's probably a lot of things you haven't heard yet. And it's all waiting for you on the Patreon at patreon.com slash Retronauts. Jeremy, what's going on with you? I know you're doing lots of stuff outside of Retronauts. I am. So, yeah, you know, I'm doing the day job thing at Limitur Run Game. working on projects such as these have been announced monkey island's collection the monkey island collection the castellvania collection helping out in various capacities with those and other games

that haven't been announced plus doing the newsletter and videos and books and all the kind of stuff that I normally do like with retronauts and other places but for limited run games and then of course there's the video works project every Wednesday I upload another video retrospective on some facet of NES or game boy history or things related to that I've got a music podcast that goes out every month or so called Alexander's Ragtime Band. And I guess, you know, since we're talking about voice acting here, I did my own, my own voice acting gig. I got not voice acting, but voice over, audiobook a gig earlier this year. I wrote and recorded an audiobook for audible.com on the history of video games. And that is up and can be purchased

if you want to listen to it. And I have to say, you know, audio, doing doing audiobooks was much more chill than I expected. I basically had two days to record five hours of material. And they were, they were very good about saying, okay, you've talked a long enough now. Go take a break. Rest your voice. You've got a little office over there, have some water, have some tea. So, uh, podcasters don't get that. No, I know. It's very different than the rough and tumble world of podcasting and game is turtles. It felt kind of posh. They, they even fed me. It was weird. So check out your audible history of video games then. Yeah, it's just called the video game, the history of video games on audible.com and I don't know, wherever else they sell audible audiobooks. It might be exclusive.

I'm not sure. But anyway, that was a fun thing that I did and, yeah, a chance to try something new and different. Awesome. As for me, you can find me on Twitter as Bob Servo. I do a lot of other podcasts outside of this that are not related to video games, but still about old stuff. There's Talking Simpsons. That's a chronological exploration of the Simpsons and also what a cartoon where we talk about a different episode of a different cartoon every week. You can find those wherever you find podcasts or go to patreon.com slash Talking Simpsons. Sign up there. You can get a everything a week early and ad-free, of course, and also access to over 100 bonus episodes. Our mini-series are all behind the paywall, and there'll be a new one coming up in this October.

We're going to be doing Talking Futurama, Season 2, Part 2, wrapping up the rest of Futurama. And, of course, the earlier episodes of Talking Futurama are all behind the paywall at Patreon.com slash Talking Simpsons. I do love me some Futurama. Ooh, yes, I can't wait to get back into it this fall. But that is it for us this week. We will see you next time for another episode of Retronauts. Goodbye. I don't know.

Thank you.