Retronauts - Retronauts Episode 365: The Mega Man Ranking Hootenanny

Episode Date: March 22, 2021

Jeremy Parish, Nadia Oxford, Diamond Feit, and Stuart Gipp all go to the mats to decide once and for all which Mega Man game is the greatest—definitively!—in the lowest-stakes knock-down drag-out opinion match you'll ever hear Retronauts is made possible by listener support through Patreon! Support the show to enjoy ad-free early access, better audio quality, and great exclusive content. Learn more at http://www.patreon.com/retronauts

This week in Retronauts, time to get mega mad. Hi, everyone. Welcome to Retronauts episode. Whatever. I'm not looking at up. I'm lazy. And that's the theme of this entire episode, really. It's the loosiest, goosiest episode of Retronauts ever. Maybe that's not quite true. But this is definitely more an off-the-cuff type episode as opposed to one that is meticulously researched. It is one about personal experiences, memories, and opinions. It is the Mega Man ranking hoot-nanny. I think that's how you say hoot-nanny. In any case, yeah, the idea here is that we have talked about the Mega Man series from time to time. And it is, been a few years since we last talked about the Mega Man series, and therefore it is time for us to talk about it again. Otherwise, is this really Retronauts? And so, to help me out, I have summoned Mega Man fans and enthusiasts from around the world, literally, from around the world, also from around Retronauts, regular contributors, people you know and love. I hope you

love them. So they are going to help me count down, basically argue out and hash out the best and worst Mega Man games. Of course, I have, I am Jeremy Parrish, and I have formally made a pronouncement of the rankings of Mega Man Games, I believe, on Polygon.com as a freelance article, but here's the thing. I don't remember what I wrote. And this is the kind of thing where, you know, it just like, what is your favorite Mega Man game? That's just the kind of of thing that flickers and waivers according to your mood at any given time. There is no meticulous science behind this, despite the fact that I did get paid money to write this stuff for Polygon. So yeah, so basically we are, I'm opening the floor to other opinions so that

my, my Mega Man rankings are no longer the definitive Mega Man rankings on the internet, because of course that was the case until this very moment. Anyway, I'm going to let some other people talk. I'm really just kind of rambling here. So let's start closest to me and work our way east. Who do I have somewhat near here, at least on the same continent? Hi, I am Nadia Oxford with the Axe of the Blood God RPG podcast. And yeah, I am fairly north of you parish in that we are kind of a straight line towards each other, aren't we? So I mean, sure, it's a straight line no matter, you know, which direction you draw off, it's two points, but yes, point taken, you're pretty much due north of here. I failed geometry.

But, yes, I am very happy to be here. Your is flat, by the way. Oh, shoot, that's news to me. But I am very happy to be here. I am certain that I have written at least one Mega Man ranking for you back in the old days of one-up.com. God knows what I hope. Oh, yes, yes.

So that was definitive until my polygon list came along. So, yeah, so this is a chance to kind of do a pallet cleanser. and combine, really, our collective knowledge. I feel like you might know a few things about Mega Man. Yeah, I know a couple, but yeah, sure, so why not? All right. And further to the east, across a large ocean, that's your story. My geography is really bad, so I don't know who you mean.

I could not tell you. Look at the map, and if you look at the map, America's going to be to your left. I'm not even, like, joking. I genuinely, I'm just like, blankly staring. I don't know. Yeah, hello, I'm Stuart Jip. If I was a robot master, I would be receding hairline man, but that wouldn't fit, so they'd have to change it to something else.

All right. I'm thinning here, man. So I'm right there with you, sharing the follicle shield power. And then finally, finally far away on a totally different continent. Actually, I'm not even going to get into the geography of this. Yes. Who is that in Japan? Good evening. This is Diamond Fight, and I want to know, when am we going to get the Paper Man? That's a great question.

We have to do Slender Man first. Just thinking of Paper Man makes me think of paper cuts, which is just, ooh, I'm not fighting that guy. I mean, there's never actually been a Scissor Man. There's, you know, Cut Man who throws scissors. Very close. Yeah, so we just have Rock Man, no Scissor Man, no Paper Man. I don't know what to tell you. There's a paperhead.

Alex Kidd, so if they could get him over, maybe that would work. Yeah, that's a good idea. Yeah. I just learned this past week because I published my Dragon Power, aka Dragon Ball retrospective video, that Alex Kidd actually started out as a pitch for a Dragon Ball game, which is why Alex Kidd is a little monkey boy and why he uses Junkin for his boss fights, because that was kind of the technique that Goku used before he joined up with Master Roshi. had no idea about any of this. And people blew my mind in the comments of my YouTube video.

Usually, they just annoy me with pedantry or, like, pro-Naziism. But this time, they brought the knowledge, and I'm really grateful. Anyway, that's totally an aside. I don't think there is any connection between Mega Man and Dragon Ball, though there should be. Mega Man's more Astro Boy, more, what's the name of the one with the dog? It starts with a G. I just know the dog's name is Frenter. Okay, there you go. But I know what you're talking about. Yes.

It's like Goat and Ranger or something. I don't know. Goat and Ranger, yes. I thought it was going to be Gumby. There's a dog and Gumby. I don't know. There is. No, it's a horse.

He's pokey. What? Oh, well, I don't know what Gumby is. Just think back to Eddie Murphy. All right. Yes. So I think we have properly set the tone for this episode. I'm making weird noises here by slapping things impatiently on my palm because I'm ready to get on with this discussion.

It's going to be, I think it's going to be a good one. It's going to be interesting at least. But we have like, what, like five to six minutes to talk about each of these games. So what we're going to do is we're going to go through each of the 12 games in the Mega Man series. There are 11 games plus Mega Man and Bass. Did I get that right? No. Mega Man and Bass.

Damn it. What I write that fan fiction. Mega Man and Forte. It's confusing. He's got fins on his head. I know, right? When you see it, it's a fish. And sometimes you go underwater.

So, yeah. Exactly. Best to best. Anyway, those 12 games. We are not counting the Game Boy games because mostly those are just warmed over NES games. We're not talking about Rockman and Forte for the Bandai Wonder Swan because it's garbage. We're not talking the Doss Mega Man games because those are worse than garbage. We are just talking about the games that were kind of created, the classic Mega Man games, not X, not Zero, not Legends, not Battle Network. Wow, that's a lot. We're just talking about the classic Mega Man games created under the direct supervision of Capcom as opposed to the ones where they were like, yes, here's a license, just piss it away. Go for it. So we're going to begin on the NES. But first, maybe it's worth kind of recapping our

bona fides here. So, Diamond, why don't we start with you? Tell us, like, what is your experience with Mega Man? Just in brief. Where did you first play the series and how closely have you followed it? Well, I was there on the ground floor. This was definitely a game that I played on the NES. A friend had it. The kind of friend who just got a lot of games and they all came from his cousin, which probably meant he just took them from somewhere. But yeah, we played this the game a lot. I'm pretty sure we had the, we had an instruction manual, and the instruction manual said you could duck, and that is a lie. Oh. But we, yeah, we played it a lot, and eventually,

I think, I think once the select trick came out, oh, now we can actually finish this game. And so when Megamand 2 came out and got all the coverage, I'm like, oh, well, now this is, this is for real then, and Mega Man 2 kind of blew my face off. And, yeah, then I kind of traded up to 16-bit Genesis and missed a lot of Mega Man games, but then I went back to Super Nintendo and like, oh, Mega Man X is here, and that blew my face off again. So I've been sort of Mega Man adjacent for many years, but I've certainly been trying to do some homework to catch up with Mega Men's in time for this podcast, and I've been playing a couple games lately to sort of reattune myself, so I think I'm ready.

Oh, and of course, I've had dinner with Manami Matsumai. So that's right. That counts. All right. Stuart. Mega Man, I never really had any of the games because regular listeners will probably figure out no Nintendo in the UK, just basically none. What was the spectrum equivalent? Oh, my God.

Was the spectrum equivalent of Mega Man? That's a hell of a question. This could take up a full two hours in that itself. I genuinely can't think of anything because it's all just, no, there's got to be something. Someone will post in the comments or something and correct me on that, but nothing springs to mind. There's nothing with that kind of play control or even that springs to mind where you're playing as a little robot man with a gun arm. It's not coming. Well, he shoots little eggs, so like Dizzy's, you know?

Yeah. I mean, Dizzy's kind of like Mega Man in that he's a bit sort of round and he moves, he moves. He can move and jump. That's a Megaman. Yeah, that's a tough case to make right there. But, yeah, well, you know. But a friend of mine had the original Mega Man on NES when I was a little kid. and I mean I was just fascinated by the fact that you could choose your level

because with the spectrum it was either I mean most of my spectrum games I never even saw level two because they're all impossible so in that you've got a choice of six levels that's incredible and then later another friend had Mega Man 2 and 4 which was yeah I mean I always liked 4 better because back then new and flashy always wins but you know

I came to my senses after that and we discovered when emulation became a thing found out that there would There were actually already nine Mega Man games because the Mega Man and Base Japanese ROM was labeled Mega Man 9 for some reason. I mean, I suppose maybe it technically was. Then I started seeing reviews of Mega Man X5 and getting really confused. So then basically lots of sort of teen years when I'm supposed to be doing schoolwork, just posting on the Mega Man BB and looking up. There's a really compelling kind of lots and lots of characters who are really kind of cool and interesting and easy to understand.

Like, someone like Protoman when you're sort of a teenager is basically the coolest thing ever, I think. But not so much now, I kind of think he's a bit of a dick, to be honest. I'm not really fan of him anymore. But no, I've always liked Mega Man. And once I did get that sort of gateway to remulation, I did then start buying up all the games I could get hold of, a massive fan of the Zero series, quite like some of the X series, et cetera. It's just to be a big thing for me forever, basically. All right. And finally, Nadia, you probably don't need to go through the full litany. I think just a quick summary would work for you.

Yeah, otherwise we'll be here all night. Basically, I came into Mega Man a little bit late, surprisingly late, probably. Well, at least in Nadia timeline, because I'm old. We're talking about like 91, 92. I finally played Mega Man 3 for the first time. I think I had seen the game mentioned on old reruns of video power. And I saw Mega Man 3. for sale at a used video game shop and I said oh yeah cool I'll pick that up I picked it up and so it began an obsession I went through all the games after that or most of the games anyway and I distinctly remember Mega Man 1 being one of my last ones and being thoroughly unimpressed by that point of course but at least it's worth remembering because I played it on my brother's like really old black and white TV and I swear to God it was about to catch on fire by the time I had finished the game but I was just like oh my God I have to see it. see this ending versus, oh, my God, I'm going to set this room on fire. And common sense

won out and I finished the ending. And I will say, though, Stuart, if you were on the Mega Man bulletin boards back in the day, we must have crossed paths. Oh, definitely. Absolutely, yeah, for sure. Before it was, I think there was, I'm not sure if there was even a Mega Man network attached to it at that time. But, yeah, that was basically the first forum that I went on ever, I think. Yeah, so you're probably like visiting the pages like Mandy, Pause page and all that cool stuff. MMHP and that one that's still up that is fantastic. Yeah, tons of really cool stuff, basically. Really nice community.

Yeah, my husband is currently in charge of the Mega Man Network. Yeah, yeah. There's that, and both of us wrote the Mega Man Field Guide by Udon. And, yeah, if you like Mega Man, if you like Robot Masters, go ahead and pick that up. It recently got a re-release in an update, so hooray. All right, and as for myself, I am a baby compared to Nadia and her extensive C. of Mega Man stuff, but I did play the original Mega Man before Mega Man 2 came out because I saw Mega Man 2 and Nintendo Power and was like, wow, that's so cool. Look at the big dragon. Oh, my God.

And it turned out there was one copy of the original game still for sale in a disused corner of a Walton software. And that was like the only copy you could find in town. I'd previously seen the game and ignored it because, of course, you look at that box and are like, no. But I, I, I went ahead and bought it, and I remember just plowing through it in, like, a couple of days. I did know about the pause trick by that point, so I was able to cheat my way to the end, but now I can beat the Yellow Devil legitimately. And from that point on, I kept up with every Mega Man game, although once Mega Man 5 came out, I kind of checked out for a while.

But then Mega Man X came out and drew me back in. But then Mega Man X2 was kind of just the same thing, so I was out again. But then Mega Man Legends came out, and I was like, wow, I'm into this. And then Mega Man Zero came out. And I was like, wow, I wish I could like this, but it's so hard. So anyway, yeah, I just, you know, kind of have these peaks and troughs. Right now, I'm in kind of a trough, and it's just because Mega Man 11 is so bad. But we'll get into that.

We certainly will, apparently. Oh, yes. We're going to get into it. So anyway, my guarantee to you listening at home is that you are not going to agree with everything that is said here. Because how could you? There are four people with diverse opinions, except, Everyone agrees that Mega Man 2 is awesome. So I think that, yeah, this should reflect a spectrum of thoughts.

And that's appropriate because Mega Man is a lad about the color spectrum. He was the Rainbow Kid. And they didn't call him that, which is good, because it sounds kind of goofy. That's very, like, Mork and Mindy, Steve Jobs, Apple logo. Let's not do that. Anyway, so the way this is going to work is we're going to talk briefly for like five minutes about each game. what's good, what's bad. It's going to be quick. And then at the end of that, we're each going to call out a score, a ranking score for that game with one being best, 12 being the worst,

Mega Man 11. And then at the end of this, we're going to tally up the numbers and declare the official canonical Mega Man rankings. This is the definitive word. I'm sorry, there's no room edgewise. This is it. We are establishing. the final definitive opinion on Mega Man. But you are allowed to have your own opinion just realize that if they disagree with us, they're wrong. So going back to the NES, we have the original Mega Man,

a game that is definitely sort of the proto-man of the series, if you will, even though Protoman did not exist as a concept. And this is, you know, came out in 1987 in Japan and America, and then like 1989 in Europe, because Nintendo neglected Europeans for forever, basically. And this was remade in 2005, 6 for PSP as Mega Man powered up. They got two new robot masters to bring the total to six. But anyway, we've talked briefly.

I think all of us about what we first experienced with the original Mega Man. Let me give you a quick rundown. The bosses are cut man, guts man, ice man, bomb man, fireman, an aleck man. So you're covering some elemental bases and some rock paper, scissor bases. Kind of a weird combination. But those are the bosses. Each one of them has a stage. And then you fight through like four stages and defeat Dr. Wiley at the end, along with a coterie of large or otherwise extremely difficult bosses, such as the small boss, which is actually just Mega Man, and is very, very hard until you figure out the pattern. So what are the good things about the original Mega Man?

Stuart, let's start with you. I'm quite, I mean, I've got heaping nostalgia for this one, because it was still the first one that I played. This is really specific, but I really, really like the way that when you press start, it throws you straight into the select screen with this really blaring kind of rock music. Yeah, I just think it's really cool, really bright blue, just like, oh my God, what's going on? I also like the fact that I didn't really understand the concept of guts when I was a kid, so I thought it was just like gore and like organs and like something.

I just thought that was kind of metal, you know. I mean, it's really formative, so I don't want to be hard on it, you know, because they obviously, like, they needed this one as a stepping stone to get to the next one. I do like some of the stage design, like the quite cruel platforms at the beginning of Gutsman's stage, which as a kid was just like my kryptonite, but I'm quite good at it now. I find those extremely useful to kind of calibrate my play experience. I go to Gutsman stage first, and if I can get past those on my first try, then I know it's going to be a good run. If I get dumped off and end up in a pit, then I know I should probably go play something else. I think it's like

In a way I think it's kind of underrated because I think it is still quite fun and the fact that pretty much all of the subsequent NES games do better it in a lot of ways means it kind of sits at the bottom but it was the first one so I don't know I think it's quite fun I quite like in playing it

I think the stage design is basically fine there's a lot of sort of oddities like when you go through the boss gates there's still a little bit of stage to play before you get to the boss which is really strange You know, there has its frustrations like the missable magnet beam which can screw you over

if you end up in Riley stage without it. I think you could go back and get it. I'm not 100% sure on that though. It's the only Mega Man game where you can go back into stages you've completed. And there's also, I do like the fact that one of the obstacles on Cutman stage is basically a giant bin full of scissors.

That really appeals to me quite a lot. That's right. They all pop out at you, like sleaze on a dog. Yeah. Yeah, as a kid, I just found there was a lot of mystery in that, you know, a lot of mystique in that game. Plus, those six bosses are really super iconic as well. I really like all of them. Gutsman keeps coming back as well. I think he's one of the few that does keep coming back in some form.

I think there's a sort of modified version of him in Mega Man 3. He's in Mega Man 7 as a bulldozer of some sort. It's just kind of cool to sit, that these guys kind of stuck around. Yeah. Looking at the time, I realize we can't go through each person's individual opinions good and bad. So really quickly, Nadia Diamond, what do you think is good about this game that has not been touched on already by Stuart? I think the music is just fantastic for an early NES game. And I also think it's like unapologetically anime, even despite the fact that the cover art suggests otherwise.

And that was something that was a lot of fun if you were kind of my age at the time and liked those old. anime's like Astroboy and what have you. If you grew up with Astroboy, there was a lot to appreciate about the original Mega Man. I mean, yeah, as far as the Genesis goes, like so much of this works from the start, just the character himself, you know, the way he, you know, struts along, the way he jumps and leaps, you know, his hands throw up in the air, his legs are a little bit uneven. Like, he's adorable. And he doesn't carry a gun.

He just uses a gun and then his hand is there. Yeah, it's just so much of it. so much of it is so it clicks immediately. Like I just remember playing it for the first time. Like this is really neat. I like this a lot. And even though it was very hard when you first,

when you first encounter it, it is really hard. And then you get deeper into it and it gets even harder somehow. Yes. Which is just, I mean, to go back to guts, man, I can tell you for years, I never did those. We would just play a Lickman stage twice

and get the magnet beam and skip those things. Because we hated those. We hated them. Yeah, the first time you encounter them, they're just bewildering because you don't really understand how the platforms work. It's a little unintuitive where somehow the cable is like supporting the platform. It doesn't really make sense. But once you understand what it's happening there, then it's not too hard to get past. But yeah, it takes a little bit of adjustment.

But I think, you know, to understand. And it's so loud too. Yeah. I think to really kind of, to understand why this game is good, you really have to understand why this game is good, you really have. to view it in the context of its time. Like, if you compare it to what had come before on NES, there were very few other convincing action games. On NES, or on computer platforms, or, you know, Master System, like just very few games that really felt cohesive on a console. And this was wholly original. It wasn't based on an arcade game. And it does introduce a lot

of concepts like the, you know, the stage select and the individual bosses who are all kind of Mega Man size, but each have their own different power. And being able to take their weapon and then use those weapon in different respects. It's really cool. It doesn't necessarily all hang together as well as it should, but there are some really great ideas here. And, you know, you get the kind of, even though some of the platform design, the level design is a little tricky and seems a little rough, there's still this great flow to it that Akira Kitamura, the main designer has talked about, where he'll kind of ratchet up the difficulty with more and more encounters with enemies, and then he'll

drop the difficulty. So you get past this hard part and then you kind of breeze past the next part and you're like, oh, I'm cool. I'm good. I got the hang of this. So it's a really good kind of, you know, addiction sort of game. But at the same time, there is a lot of bad stuff about this game. In hindsight, compared to the other Mega Man games, it is rough. Like the physics when you take a hit and Mega Man falls back or falls off a ladder, like it's very frustrating to go back and play. Some of the encounters have that kind of arcade style, like the platforms and Gutman stage where, whoa, you're just dead. Or, you know, the fight against the yellow devil where you have to fight all the way through Dr. Wiley stage. And then, like, that thing can just

wipe you out before you even know what's happening. You're just on the screen and all of a sudden there are these blocks flying at you and they're stacking up behind you and you don't know where they're coming from. And then this thing appears for like two seconds, shoot you. And then the blocks are flying across the screen again in the other direction. Like, that is, no one would design a game like that right now. Not even, you know, people are like Dark Souls. No, not even, not even that. Like, there is some broadcasting of what's happening.

This game does not have that. No, and back then there was no slide either. Like, in Mega Man 3, at least you could slide under. All right. So, with that said, where would each of you place this game on a scale of 1 to 12, one being best, 12 being the worst? What number would you give this game? For me, it's a nine.

I am going to go with a 10. I hate to do it, but the fact of the matter is, yes, it is a pioneer of its time, absolutely. But it's also, if I went back to this game today, and I have gone back to it from time to time, I'm just like, I could play about 50,000 other better Mega Men games now. I'm going to say five. I still really like it. All right. And I'm going to be somewhere in the middle and say seven. It's not the best, and it has problems, but there are definitely worse Mega Man games.

All right, so that is Mega Man. And two, the sequel that looked better, sounded better, had more bosses, had a big splashy blowout in a bunch of magazines because it looked so cool. Came out in Japan at the end of 1988 and in June-ish summer, 1989 in the U.S. And God knows when in Europe, probably like 2003. I was going to say 2009. Yeah, right? It's like just, you know, whenever they got around to it, oh, yeah, Europe, that exists.

So the bosses here, metal man, airman, bubble man, quick man, crash man, flash man, heat man, and woodman. So you've got more of the elements in there, including a robot made out of a tree, which doesn't make any sense. Seems like a bad idea when you've also got a robot whose power is atomic fire. But what do I know? I'm not Dr. Wiley. All right. So free for all, everyone, what's good about this game? Everything.

There's a character named Woodman. there's a character in Flashman That's true But disappointingly Disappointingly Nothing weird happens I think

I mean for me The thing I can say for this game Because it is fantastic And everyone basically knows that When you were listing the bosses Every time you said them I immediately saw the level And heard the music in my head

For that split second Like it's all so definitive Indistinctive and memorable And you know There are these little odd bits that are kind of dodgy, like you noted the boo-beam trap towards the end of the game, Diamond. Yeah, I was going to list that as a bad, because I've been stumped by that boss several times. Like, all the weapons are cool, even though you only ever use the metal planes.

But it's great. So many cool things. The floating heads on Airman stage, the ostrich things, whatever they are in Woodman Station. Atomic chickens. Atomic chickens. Yeah. All the atomic chickens. I never forgot that name.

the beams in Quickman stage, there's just so much to love. So much. Yeah, I feel like this game really ratcheted up everything. You mentioned the Quickman beams. Like those, those kind of fall into the same sort of, whoa, I'm suddenly dead category as, you know, the platforms in Gutsman's stage. But the game really kind of gives you a way to work around that. And there's enough of like a, oh, this thing is coming across the screen at me. Oh, my God, now I'm dead. Like, there's enough of a reaction time in there that you can see what's happening and realize, okay, next time I do this, I've got to do it differently. So it is kind of trial and error, but, you know, again, the game gives you a workaround if you defeat Flashman first.

So there's, I think there's kind of meant to be a sort of experimental element to this game where you go into a stage and are like, whoa, I'm not prepared for this at all. I need to, you know, jump back to a different stage when I continue and try something different. So there's a lot of discovery and exploration in this the first time you play it, which is great. The boob beam trap was mentioned, and that is bad, mainly because you basically have a limited weapon. You have to use all of your charges for it to take out the boob beam unless you are very, very good

with a shot where you can take out two at once, but that still doesn't leave much margin for error. And when you die, it's not really easy to restock your, that weapon. Like, it's a very... That's the rub, really. Yeah, exactly. If it were full of, yeah, if it were full of like the screw worms or something where you could just shoot a bunch of enemies really easily and restock, that'd be great, but no. I love the concept of the Bubeem trap, but yeah, in execution, it's a little bit flawed, I think.

All right, so, also the soundtrack, so good. Wiley, stage one continues to be. Still iconic. Yeah, just all of it. So good. This really was a step forward, not just for the series, but for action games on the NES. It really showed how good a game could be, how well it could play, how great it could look and sound, how creative it could be, how much flexibility there could be. I mean, people point to the metal blade as being the sort of all power of a weapon.

And yes, metal blade is way too useful, but it's not like the game forces you to use the metal blade. It's not like the game holds your hand and like shoves your face against the screen and says, use the metal blade, you stupid idiot, or I'll kick you in the ass. it doesn't do that like that's your choice you don't have to use the metal blade have some self have some restraint have some self-control kids i feel like i mean not getting on it too much obviously but i feel like balance isn't is a little bit like overstated in a way because i don't think megaman two is balanced but i think that makes it kind of memorable to me it gives you these things like you know the metal blade is the weapon uh the boomium trap is kind of unfair but everyone remembers it you know uh the set pieces in this game as well are a huge stuff step up from Mega Man 1, The Dragon, and the giant robot dogs in Woodman's stage. It's all just fantastic stuff. Yeah, I feel like- Yeah, it's really impressive for the NES at the time. This game kind of has the same personality in a way as Final Fantasy Tactics, where the first time you play it, you're like, oh, my God, this is so hard.

How can anyone beat this game? This is impossible. I am just overwhelmed. But then as you play it more and you learn the ends and outs, then you're like, oh, this is actually super easy because I know this trick and I know that trick. And, you know, people are looking back and complaining about how it's way too easy with the hindsight of, you know, having played it for 30 years. Well, yeah, sure. You, it's like, you know, burned into your brain.

But the first time people play it, I mean, you look back at Game Center CX. And this is one of the games Arno has not, he did not beat on the show. And it's kind of bizarre to think that. But one, the Japanese version, like the only difficulty level is the American quote unquote hard. but also it's just like the first time you play it, it is really daunting and there are a lot of parts that just seem overwhelmingly difficult. And once you get good at it and learn the routines and the mechanisms and you get that muscle memory, yeah, it's breezy. But I don't know, like I can't ding it for the balance because I do remember the first time I played it and it took me a few days to finish. And when I got to that final section of the fortress with the silence and the acid traps and everything,

was like super tense and wound up. It was so, just like super memorable. So yeah, I can't hate on it. So scores, where are we putting this one? It's a one for me. Yeah, same. It's number one. I can't question that. I'm going to go with two just because, well, my number one is coming, but it is definitely very close. Yeah, it's a, this is a dozy. It seems too easy to give it a one, but just, you know, I got to do it. I got to give it a one. So 1-1-2-1. So I guess that's the end of the show, folks.

We know what's the best thing of band game. Good night, everyone. We all had a good time. you have the Super Mario Bros. 3 versus Super Mario World question, which is better. That exists for Mega Man 2 and Mega Man 3, the game that came out a year later, a year later, 1990. I remember getting this game for Christmas 1990, along with a copy of the Genesis' lamb lies down on Broadway and just like immersing myself in this world for all of Christmas Day, playing Mega Man 3 and listening to Progressive Rock. It was the most me Christmas ever. That sounds like the most You Christmas ever It really was That was my defining moment

That is the moment that made me That was the fire in which I was forged So the bosses here Needleman Magnet Man Jimini Man Hard Man Top Man snake man

Spark Man And Shadow Man But not Shadow Man As in the N64 game Based on the comic book No It's just a ninja guy So

Good and bad Of Mega Man 3 go These are some of my favorite robot masters. I mean, hard man. Come on. I already made the wood joke, but hard man. They're like, oh, you didn't get it the first time? Well, how about this? And top man. Top man. I never even thought of that one. Oh, man. This is the best part of the podcast. Just, sorry, sorry. Which are the monsters sound naughty. I know. I just love the designs. I mean, again, without, okay, I'm not even going to make a dirty joke about this, but Snake Man, I really do like the design. I think he's the coolest

robot master ever. He's Serpentor, the robot. exactly yes I think all the remasters are out of this game as well I totally agree the fights with them are really cool as well I think because having the right weakness weapons doesn't trivialize them like it does in some of the other games

they're not stun-locked they do you still have to actually fight them but it just makes it easier and I think that's more fun personally and I don't know if you remember a one hit wonder perish on I do on US gamer

this was the only time I think I beat Cat because we did Megaman 3 and I just barely beat her out And, I mean, every other time she beat us, but all the time. Yeah, she's a monster. She is a monster. Holy crap.

I can't. All right. So this is probably the most different Mega Man game in terms of structure. You have the eight levels that you fight through, the eight robot masters. But then four of them come back with remixes, including showdown encounters with blank slate robots that are programmed to be the Mega Man 2 bosses, which forces you to fight these bosses you've already destroyed and kind of mastered. but with a completely different set of weapons and you have to kind of figure things out. And it's pretty interesting.

I don't know that it always works. I think a big part of it is that the thematic consistency of the weapons in this and the consistency between the bosses and their stages seems a lot looser than in the first two games. So it's kind of hard to say like, what is good against, you know, the ghost of Crashman?

Is it going to be snakes? Is it going to be me throwing my... body at him and spinning around really fast? Like, what's, what's going to work? It doesn't necessarily make a lot of sense. And you have, like, top man stage. Why is that a greenhouse? It doesn't make sense.

Why is a guy who is a spinning dreidel, like a death dredal? Why is he in a greenhouse? Gunja makes it dizzy, I guess. Okay. So this is Dr. Wiley's Grow operation is what you're saying. Oh, yeah. I mean, come on. You've got to have someone guard it.

Okay. I mean, he's so angry all the time. I mean. This is, this is where Dr. Wiley chilled out, and that's why Dr. Light thought he was a good guy. He was like, oh, well, you know, he's, he's doing THC oil, so it's okay. He's chilling. I mean, he built a robot that's a spinning top. Like, he built a sub, like a henchman for the robot that's a big guy with spinning tops coming out of its chest. Like, it's, you know, I mean, come on. And for some

reason, there's a large cat in the greenhouse that shoots fleas and yarn balls, which I get. Like, those dogs in Woodman stage were very memorable. So they were like, of course, we've got to do a cat. But why is it in the top man stage? Yeah, it's just a little more incoherent, which is not to say it's bad. No. Like, the addition of the slide is cool. The addition of Proto Man showdowns is very mysterious and adds some narrative elements.

I like the idea that you are traveling to different planets, although that's only shown in the manual. I don't know if that's actually even in the Japanese version. But, yeah, really great grass. Um, some of the best music on the NES, maybe even better than Mega Man 2's. Um, and like the combination of music and visuals and like Shadow Man stage is just extraordinary. So yeah, there is a lot to love about this game. I'm not, I'm not a fan of it personally. But I mean, I like it okay, but in this sort of pantheon of the series, I'm not really a fan. There are a few too many like Gemini Man stage where you seem to spend your whole time sort of digging away through like eggs. It's just, I mean, it's not that it's not interesting. It's not that this is a bad game by any stretch of the mind. I mean, you know, ranking the Mega Man games when I love all of them is difficult enough. But as you mentioned, the last sort of the four extra stages that you do where you fight the Mega Man 2 bosses, for me, that's overstretching it.

Like, there are bosses I can beat a Mega Man 2 with the Buster fairly effortlessly, but when you'd like make them taller so you can't jump over them, it just feels like, you know, doing these stages you've already done, then you've got to fight. two bosses per stage and they're not going to be easy bosses either. I just it goes on a bit for me. I just get a bit sort of bored but then again that's a bit weird because some of the later games have like two castles so you know it's not like they don't stop doing this. I'm just

not crazy about it personally. It was a good game to have when you were young and you had time to really kind of complete these long-ass difficult games. I do know that as a kid and this being my first Mega Man game, the second Robot Master Run confused the hat on me because I knew

nothing about Mega Man 2 because I had picked up three on a win pretty much. So I was just like, yeah, okay. So I was just kind of desensitized the whole idea of doing another round of robot masters. I took it for granted, actually, that, oh, I'm playing Mega Man 4. Here come the new robot masters. Oh, okay. Whatever. Diamond, you've been kind of quiet. What do you think? Well, I've been waiting to deliver the hot take. So in my opinion, Mega Man 3 is the Super Mario Brothers 2 Japan of Mega Man games It's just

It's got a lot of cruelty in it That I just I couldn't get behind Definitely in replaying the games That I've been replaying lately This is the one that just It really really needled me Okay, it really got to me And

Yeah the repeat fights The fact that everyone seems just very Seems a little bit too tall Mega Man does not jump high enough I know this is a trick that lets Mega Man jump higher that if I had someone on standby, I would exploit that trick, but it didn't have a helper here. So you had rush.

There's, there's magic here. It's not a bad game, you know, just like you remember this too is not a bad game. But boy, it is, there's a lot of frustration here that just sort of really, ooh, it really pissed me off. All right. So it's time to put a number on these things. Diamond, what is your number there? I'm going to say six. Oh, you made it sound so bad, and then it's just like middle of the road.

Okay. It's just, I can't hate it because there is, you know, like you said, the music, the music is fantastic. A lot of these characters are really cool looking, but, you know, the items that you get in Mega Man 2 are now like a tool you have. It makes sense, you know, a lot of this, there's some cohesion here, there's some lore here. Like, it's, but to me, it's like the jump from one to two is astonishing and you can feel the passion that was in it.

two to three is just kind of like well we got to make another one now and it just I feel like when you look at three at the end of the day it's not as it's not as good as two and for me it's not as fun as some of the other games so I sort of I nudged it down the list even though I know some people for for some people this game is beloved and I'm like I don't I don't get it all right what's the rest of the team have to say it's definitely my number one it comes close to two but it's definitely number one still okay Stuart? I'm going to

I feel kind of bad now. I'm going to give it eight because I like a lot of the other ones more than this. There is a lot about this game that I think is really, really, really good. But overall, it's just not up there for me, unfortunately. Wow. All right. And I'm going to be a little kinder and give it a four.

I think there are a few games that are better, but there's still a lot I love about this game. And now we move on to Mega Man 4, a game that I personally do not love. But maybe you feel different. So the bosses here, this game started the Mega Man like we are turning these things out every year, bitch. just do it um bright man toadman drill man pharaoh man ring man dust man dive man and skull man skull man that's right uh so um let's share our thoughts actually i'll go first this time because i've i've been yielding the floor so much uh not not this time i'm going to be chatty

No, I just, you know, I got this one for Christmas also and played it and blasted through it in like three hours and was like, whoa, is that it? And I don't know, like when I've gone back to revisit it, every time I replay it, I'm just not that impressed. It adds the charge beam, which, yeah, just totally slows down the pace of the game, messes up the music, like makes the special weapons moot. I'm not a fan. I also don't think the level themes and the boss themes are that interesting. I feel like just about every weapon here is pretty much a weapon you've seen in another Mega Man game, except not as good. I don't know. It's just, I can't really get into this one.

There's some neat visual effects, like the little rainbow platforms in Ringman stage, I think. And, you know, some of the stuff like the rain effects and Toad Man stage, like these are, these are, interesting and good uses of the tech, but just not that fun. I do appreciate the fact that the Toadman is the single least threatening Mega Man villain ever. Like, you can destroy him without him even being able to attack because he has this windup where he does like a hula hoop thing and shakes his booty before he makes it rain. And you could knock him out of that with the charge shot, which I guess is to say like, hey, look how cool the charge shot is. But it's a lie. The charge shot is not cool. So it's all, it's all just mis-aimed energy. Anyway, that's my opinion.

Yeah, I'm not a fan of the way the charge shot changes up the rhythm of the game either, to be honest. And also, it means you, if you are, if you are using it all the time, it means you spend the whole time, the whole game just hearing, like, and that's for like seven more games that you're going to be doing there. But there is a lot I do like about this game. I like the oddness of it. I like Ferrar Man just looks really cool and Skullman too. Sorry, his name is Skollman. All right, sorry. I'm not going to try and do that in case my voice catches.

I guess can't. But I like the fact that there are alternate, like, secret areas you can find, which give you, like, the wire power up and the balloon power up. But then whoever used those when you have the rush coil and the rush jet and stuff. There is stuff I dig about this. I like Brightman's stage quite a lot. And, again, the music is really awesome. But I don't like the fact that when the bosses drop down and you fight them,

their health bar fills up. and it takes hours. It does, yeah. It almost feels like a fan game or something. I don't know. All right, Diamond, where do you stand on this? I like Mega Man 4 a lot. Okay.

I have a lot of fun with it. I think some of these weapons are really interesting. Even though, for example, Brightman, the flashdopper, like at first glance, it's basically the Flashman weapon, but then you realize, no, wait, it's better because you can actually shoot. Yes. You can freeze time and then shoot. So I've never actually seen Farroman fight me

Because I just freeze him and shoot him And freeze him and shoot him And then the battle is over That's the way to do it But yeah, I had a lot of fun replaying this one I really enjoy I really enjoy a lot of the themes Okay, definitely the

If you can time it right You can charge, if you charge your shot I think like during a screen transition The sound goes away That's the best way to do it But I also try to just I try to like play with it more In the old fashioned way

where I just tried to shoot really, really fast. And I only use charge shots when I feel like, okay, I need a charge shot here to get past this one, this one bastard who has a shield up or something. But, yeah, I had a lot of fun with this one, and I really enjoyed it. And I like, I like a lot of the character designs and the music. And I don't know, I guess this is the start of the two Castle mode, which is not great. But Dr. Cossack, that's just funny. That's just funny. All right.

So that's good. we've got some varieties of opinions here. So let's put up our dukes and put some numbers on this. You didn't ask me, man. Oh, well, you were chiming in. So go ahead. Sorry. I think I'm more on Diamond Side for this one.

Mega Man 4, I think, was the one I played after 3, so it has a lot of nostalgic value to me. Even so, it's still one of the top ones I like to go back to, even though I know the Megabuster kind of blows the whole rhythm of the game. I know it blows the music channel off its Alpha Dash practically. which is a shame because this Mega Man game, I think, has probably the best soundtrack of all the classic Mega Man's. I think Dust Man's theme is just one of the coolest themes put to an NES soundtrack. Same to go with a Skull Man's theme. I love Skull Man's theme. It's just fantastic. Brightman's theme, too.

Yeah, so it's not a perfect game by any stretch of the imagination, but I have a lot of good memories associated with it. And, yeah, so I'm a little kinder to it than a lot of people. All right. So let's put some numbers on this bad boy. Seven. Okay? It's a seven. Nadia?

I guess I'll go with, uh, I'll go with like a five. Five, diamond. I'll say three. Wow. Good for you. And I'm going with nine. So that's quite a spread. Well done, Mega Man 4.

You are diverse. All right. So that moves on to Megamon-5, the first Mega Man 5, the first Mega Man that I did not buy. I rented it and said, ah, you know, I'm over this. I'm just going to play Super Nintendo from now on. Shame on me, but can you blame me? I was a kid. Well, I was a teenager. Teenagers are so moody. Anyway, uh, this was Mega Man's moody teenage video game. That's what I'm calling it. So 1992 for the NES. Yeah, it came out and people kind of said, okay, here's a Mega Man game. So the bosses here are Gravity Man, Wave Man, Stone Man.

Gyro Man, or is that Ero Man? Is he throwing... I can't remember. Is he throwing sandwiches at you? Yes. Star Man, but not the Super Mario kind. Charge Man. Napal Man.

A little taste is there. And Crystal Man. The worst thing is, I don't think that you can make a kind of sort of dirty joke about any of the names of these guys. Well, I did think that Napal Man was Nipple Man at first. Oh, well, that would be amazing. That would be. His stage is very cold.

And they say I'm cool. All right. So what's good about Mega Man 5? Team, let's hear it. Graphics are nice. It's a good looking game. I like the intro movie with Protoman. Oh my God, Protoman betrayed Dr. Light.

How could this be? That was a fun little intrigue for two seconds. That's how I really have. It's not really my favorite Mega Man game. I appreciate how easy and short. it feels, which sounds like a criticism, but I genuinely like the breeziness of it. The stages don't feel too long. They're kind of creative in places like Gravity Man's stage where you're jumping to switch

well, gravity. It is really cool. Fighting him with him constantly switching gravity is a really interesting kind of mechanical, though it plays out as basically you just aiming your charge shots to catch him as he drops past you. I did like that Wave Man stage had a bit where you get on the back of a sort of jet ski and go zapping people. It's not great stuff, but it is something new. And also, Starman's level was cool because it takes the kind of underwater mechanics of you jumping

super high, but applies it to, you know, low gravity in space again. There's a lot of little neat things I like. Gyro Man, where you can't see him for a lot of the fight because the cloud cover is hiding him away. And a lot of great music and great graphics again, I thought, I thought was a good one. Yeah, I've come around on this one. It's not my favorite by any means, but I just kind of was like, I'm done with the Mega Man after playing this, but I've gone back to it and, you know, it's really solidly built.

I feel like the issue that I have with it is it kind of feels like at this point, Mega Man was playing catch-up with other franchises, like what other action games were doing out there, you know? Taken in isolation, Gravity Man's stage and mechanics are very interesting and like, wow, this is really fresh and fun for Mega-Man. But, you know, the year before that, you had Metal Storm on NES,

which was a game entirely, about flipping gravity. And of course, two years before that, you had Strider, also from Capcom, a game where you have like a zero gravity section where you have to like, a couple of them actually, where you have to destroy like this device that's creating anti-gravity. So, you know, it kind of feels like, oh, Mega Man is just sort of, you know, the, the auto ride that you mentioned in Wave Man stage, like the auto-scrolling sequence. It just feels like they were kind of taking ideas they had seen elsewhere and just kind of saying, well, let's put them in here. And so in terms of freshness and innovation, it's pretty low on the list.

But I think, you know, in hindsight, it actually plays really well to the point that, you know, there's a couple of sections in this game that were copied verbatim into Mega Man 9. It's also worth noting that Chargeman is a freaking train. That is true. So, and this was before Final Fantasy 6, so no one knew how to suplex him yet. I also really like the fact that because of the way Mega Man works, when you're in the gravity stage and you fight Gravity Man. And the whole thing is like, oh, well, I'm going to get to do this. And then when you use Gravity Man's power in the right area and all the enemies just fly off into the sky and disappear, that is so much fun.

That is satisfying, yes. That is pretty funny. I think I'm back to it. I mean, I remember the first time I actually used it. And I was like, what does this actually do? And I used it. And all of a sudden, like, four little bastards who were shooting at me just just zip, zipped out. You know, I was like, oh, this is the best weapon.

This is the best weapon. All right. So where do we put this one in terms of numbers? Hmm. I am going to go with seven. Okay. That's a six for me. I'm going a little high with four just because it has a lot of fun bits to it that I liked,

even though it's definitely not as, like, realistically, this is not as good as three, but I think it's more fun than three, so I'm ranking it above three. Okay. And I'm torn on this one again. I think I'm going to give it an eight, just because we're going to give it an eight, just because when I stop and think about it, I feel like there are better games. But it's not bad.

Ada's still good. You know, it's the lower third, but we're talking about Mega Man here. So I feel like this is the cutoff point between like the good Mega Man's and the bad Megamon. All right, so on to Mega Man's. a game that was largely ignored to the fact that, to the point that I remember downloading

ROMs of this in the 90s that were labeled Mega Man 7, like someone just hacked this with a Mega Man 7 title, or Mega Man, no, Mega Man 8, I think. This was after Mega Man 7. They hacked in the title screen Mega Man 8, I want to say, or Mega Man 9. In any case, it was actually just the game, but because apparently no one played it, people were like, hey, we can pretend this is a brand new Mega Man game. Capcom didn't even publish this on their own in America. They gave it to Nintendo. Nintendo was like, we really need some stuff on the NES in its dying days. Capcom, can we have this Mega Man game? And Capcom

was like, whatever. Okay. So the bad guys here are Blizzard Man, Sintower Man, Flame Man, Nightman, Plant Man, Tomahawk Man, Wind Man, and Yamato Man, which is the strangest theme for a video game. This is the man from Japan. Would I be right in saying that this was the first game where two of the robot masters were designed by people outside of Japan as well? Yes. They put the contest out worldwide.

I might be wrong on it. Yes, that is correct. I think starting with Mega Man three, you started to see Robot Masters who were designed by kids in a little contest where they wrote into Koro Koroa magazine or something. And so there would always be like the robot master guest character. But this time, Americans got to do one, too. And I believe Tomahawk Man was what we can do. Yeah.

I think Nightman is Canadian. Okay. Well, there you go. Thanks, America. Yeah, not great. You have one job. Anyway, so where do we stand on this one? I feel like it deserves better than its memory has provided.

I think many of us, even Hardcore stands, came to the game quite late, maybe after playing X, maybe even after playing Mega Man 7. Going back to it, I realized now, well, you know what, I was always a little bit unfair towards this game. It's definitely a very good solid Mega Man game. It has branching pathways. I think part of what turned me off to it was, number one, better Mega Man games had come out by that point. And number two, the whole Mr. X story seems so insulting, even for a Mega Man story. I was like, you know what, Capcom?

F off. I'm tired of this, and I just didn't bother. He's got sunglasses and a beard. That couldn't possibly be Dr. Wiley. No, you know, I completely ignored this one. And in hindsight, I really have come to regret that because it's an extremely well-designed Mega Man game. There are a lot of fresh, fun ideas in the stages. I don't know about the, this is the one of the adapter suit, right? Like, that's completely superfluous. That was pretty cool. But, oh, okay. So it's cool, but also superfluous. Yeah, definitely. No argument there.

But even though the... Oh, go ahead. If I may, what I like about it is instead of having Rush be this thing, you have to constantly power separately, it's like, oh, here's a suit you can put on and it's sort of, it has some advantages and disadvantages for you. But the bottom line is you just use it. You don't need, like, you're not going to use up power. You just charge it and use it and get like, you know, you can get the jump boost or you have the, you punch through like breakable blocks. I like that aspect of it. I definitely do not like the fact that every time.

you turn it on, it shows you an animation of what is doing. It's like, no, no, no, no. I actually start button to get rid of it. It's really, that's irritating. Yeah, even though the bosses in this one are kind of ethnic stereotypes like lame man, Tomahawk man, Yamato Man, maybe not great. I guess Yamato Man gets a pass because this is a Japanese game, but still. The stage is so boring. I don't think his stage is very fun. It does not, it doesn't really, you know, if you're going to make a Japan stage, then lean into it. Like, all it is, like, you get, you get a food Uji shot at the top of the stage, but I'm like, yeah, that's the payoff, you know, give me a castle, give me a, give me a cherry tree or something. It feels to me a bit like sort of a game of two halves because half of it's really fun and the other half is just kind of plain to me.

But aesthetically, I think it's probably one of the best Mega Man games, like the screens, when you select your robot master and you get all that information about them. That is cool. That's so cool. And the music's awesome. Yeah, the music is the, I would say, the most underappreciated of the Mega Man sounds. tracks. Every track on here is so good. And, you know, you don't really appreciate it until you hear it kind of outside the context of the game. And you're like, whoa, this is, this is really great. There are some really neat ideas in there, I think. Like, I love Blizzard Man, who's just

basically a big snowball that shoots with skis. He's on skis. Yeah, but he doesn't ski at you, really. He just turns into a ball and rockets tall, which is a centaur man, which is really weird and creative. I like the way that Flame Man has that mechanic where the oil can be sat on fire and it makes a level exponentially more dangerous. It's just full of cute, neat ideas, basically. But some of the level design is a little bit less interesting than others for me. Yeah, it feels like they were kind of putting all their tricks into this bag as sort of the 8-bit send-off to Mega Man. And maybe, you know, maybe it was intended to be the send-off to the Mega-Man classic series as X was right around the corner would be really.

least just a couple of months later. So they really just kind of pulled out all the stops in terms of composition, in terms of tech tricks that they could do on the NES, just in terms of graphics. And if the stage themes seem a little stale, then, you know, what can you do? But I don't know, I feel like a lot of love was put into this game. And I think it's really sort of unfairly overlooked in the Mega Man Pantheon and is one of the games that really deserves reconsideration. So as we reconsider it, where would you put numbers on this one? I am going to go with nine. Yeah, nine sounds really good. Also, it's a six. The six

just comes to nine. Just go for it. For me, it's five. All right. And I'm going to put it at six. So right there, right there in the middle. But yeah, I would have given this like a six back in 1993, because I was like, this is the worst, because I didn't know even want to play it. But now it's six because it's, uh, there's, there's six worst games. All right. That's very meaningful. Oh, boy. I can't wait for future history 101 today. I hear Prof. Timesworth is going to teach us about World War 6.

Gather around, students. It is time to learn. Podford University, where history and future are the same class. Available on iTunes, Spotify, and everywhere you get podcasts. Matt, I've got a great idea for a podcast. You and me, we watch movies, right? And some of them are kind of bad, and so we make fun of them. But maybe some of them are good. Chris, that's a great idea. Let's do it. And eat snacks. Movie Fighters, an original idea on the Greenlit Podcast Network.

All right. That was actually a pretty natural stopping point because we went through all the NES games. Now on to the post-NES world of Mega Man, Matt. So beginning with the super NES, the first super NES game, Mega Man 7, this is maybe the weirdest Mega Man game. It's the one that feels the least like any other, aside from maybe Mega Man 11. Um, visually stunning, but I don't know. Let's talk about how it plays. The bosses here are freeze man, junk man, oh, junk man, burst man, cloud man, spring man, slash man. Uh-huh.

And shade man and turbo man. So we've got junk and slash. So we're already, uh, the age of fanfic is right here. All right. So you're glossing over the fact that he, he gives you the junk shield. That's true. We call those athletic supporters in my part of the world. I love these weapon names, by the way.

Can we just shout out to Danger Rap? Danger Rap is so good. And the freeze cracker, that sounds like a line from Shaft. Okay? That is perfect. Yes, I absolutely does. The noise crush is also good. Yeah, there's, there are good, good weapon names in here.

But Mega Man 7 is so weird. They, it's a weird game, but it's a, I always had a soft spot for, and I couldn't even tell you why it could have just been. I was playing it at an interesting time of my life. I honestly don't recall. I think part of it is the soundtrack is so good. Freeze Man's music is epic. As far as I'm concerned, it's just perfect.

And Slash Man's, I mean, God, Slashman is a robot dinosaur, Jurassic Park thing. Like, there's nothing to love about that. And, yeah, it's not a perfect game, but I will say that it has probably the most, underrated Wiley one stage music ever composed. Hmm. Yeah, it has that really melancholy feel to it. It does, doesn't that? Yeah.

It's so sad to be in this video game. Oh, I'm in Mega Man 7. I could be a theme in a better Mega Man game. He does finally lose it and try to shoot Wiley at the end. That's true. You would, though, wouldn't you? You'd be fed up with him. Yeah.

After fighting that final boss, I'd want to shoot a bullet in his head. Sorry, Asimov. God, that's terrible. I'm breaking the law. Breaking the rules here. I mean, it probably won't surprise people who read my retronaut stuff that this is one of my favourites

because it's so strange and it's so full of interesting secrets that the way that your weapons interact with the world I think in this game is a lot more interesting than it has been before. The fact that in Cloud Man stage you can use a elemental weapon on those

little flying robot things and it will change the weather. It's just such a cool idea. Like if you use the freeze man's weapon on them, it snows and then you can see the sort of the hidden platforms because there's snow on them, a little clever, creative stuff like that, burning down the forest. Burning down the damn forest, you get to Protoman

to hide his spot. In Slashman's stage, yeah. You mentioned Protoman being like, dude, what the hell? He tells you to do it. That's true. He's like, hey, Mega Man, why didn't you go and burn down the forest? Oh, gee whiz, Porto Man, I don't want to burn down the forest.

You'll find a bird in a cage if you burn down the forest. Like, okay, it doesn't see like a good tradeoff, but sure. There are many birds who died for the for it in a cage. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, the one thing I will say in this game's defense is that considering that it was

basically thrown together in three months because the original developer whiffed it and they just had to kind of pull everything together in an emergency, it's kind of remarkable that they managed to pull this off and throw in so much weird stuff. I know Diamond, you wanted to throw in some of the little hidden things to give those a shout out. So, you know, I will say that the fact that they managed to make it work in that short timeline is impressive, but it definitely has the feel of a game that had a troubled development cycle. Well, part of the problem is just the fact that so after you made these, these previous six games and, you know, you've got a, it's a new design, everything's a little

different. And Mega Man is just too big? Like, this game looks great, but Mega Man is too big. Am I alone to this? He feels too big on the screen. He absolutely is. And it's kind of the Castlevania 4 problem where it's like, well, you know, everything worked on NES and we really had a feel for it. And now that's not going to hold here on a different platform. So how do we express this concept, but make it, you know, kind of in line with what people expect from contemporary games on this platform and kind of miss the mark. I think given how big he is.

It also makes his buster shots seem kind of weedy and crappy. Yeah, there are a lot of bullet sponges in this game. All the enemies are bullet sponges. Damn roaches. Get it. All right. So it sounds like we're mostly lukewarm on this except Stewart. So where does that, how does that translate into numbers?

If I give it a three, honestly, I think it's great. Okay. Honestly, I'm probably going to rate it harder than I should. I'm getting to four just because, again, something about the number. The nostalgia really speaks to me. And I admit it's nostalgia. Wow. Okay.

Diamond? Yeah. Well, let's just say seven. Yeah, let's just say seven. Seven is seven. Seven for seven. Okay. And I'm giving it a 10, which would sound great, except lower numbers are better.

It's like a benchmark. So sorry, Omega Man, seven. I don't like you. But now we move on to another platform, a different platform, Mega Man 8 on PlayStation and or Saturn. And this is a game that personally, I feel, takes a lot more guff than it ought to. It was it was a little hard to play this game in 1998, 97, I guess 98, because I don't know, like it's very unapologetically old school. The visuals are, you know, they're all 2D and they're smaller. Like everything is smaller on screen than you saw on other 2D games of the era.

But ultimately the things that I think kind of were dinked. against it at the time help it hold up. You know, they work in its favor now. So though the bosses here are Tengu Man, which if that was a bewildering experience for most American children, I'm sure. It's a Japanese pro-deacon.

Yeah, a lot of us learned what it was. Right. Astro. His nose is long. I see. Yes, right. Astro-man, sword man, clown man, searchman, frost man, grenade man,

and Aquaman, but not the trademark. Aquaman. This is not Arthur Curry. He does not throw the curry bomb. He throws the water balloon. There's a space right there. Yep. That's right. Space man. Totally different. I think also people ding this game for the extraordinarily bad English localization dub. It's remarkable. It's brilliant. But this was the era of full motion video. So we get some cartoon footage that looks okay. Like it's well drawn, but then it's compressed to hell with the PlayStation and Saturn's motion graphics formats, not doing the most favors for the artwork. And definitely the dub is bad. But, you know, they were really trying to make this a like, here's classic

Mega Man, but for 1998. Yeah. So how do we feel about that? I am not a fan of eight. It is probably one of my least favorite in the series. I don't like the visuals beyond, I thought it was cool in the first stage when you shoot the trees and the birds like kind of flock out. I thought that was really neat, but I don't like the pastel colors. I don't like the soundtrack. I don't like the boss designs. I don't like the fact that Rush was regulated to special stages. And of course, jump, jump, slide, slide. It's just not a game. I enjoy going back to you on any front. I have to have to agree with you on that. I'm really not into this. I've played this again quite recently on the Legacy Collection, too. Yeah, same. And honestly, I think it's a stinker. I really

just think it's downright bad. It doesn't. Okay, it looks fantastic. In a sense, sense, but it doesn't work for me at all. Mega Man looks kind of dumb and, like, lanky and weird. It's got these schmup sections that are just no fun at all that go on forever. It's just not for me. I do like the fact that all of the bosses have really, really dumb, badly read little quotes that they say. That's true. That's kind of fun.

They scream, that was luck when you kill them. It's bonkers. I do like that, but, nah, not really. Not very good for me. No extra points for the fact that Mega Man kicks a football Well, I suppose that is quite cool Except when you have to use it against the final boss That sucks

So that was actually one of the bits of the game That I quite like where it makes you learn how that thing works Because throughout the whole game I just basically using it as a platform to bounce off of And then at that point they're just like No, this has a trajectory and you're going to learn it or you're going to lose And I kind of appreciated that in a way but yeah me me just just weird in the noises me i remember uh mandy pa the old old days of fandom said

that dr wiley looked like he was wearing a kfc uniform i never made a gone to see that all right um so kind of mixed feelings here i don't know i i really i really enjoy this one um i've come to really appreciate it in in hindsight i feel like it really is an earnest attempt to modernize megaman on sort of the the presentation front, but go back to more of like, hey, here's the stuff that you liked from the NES. Like, it fixes up the visual issues of Mega Man 7, even though it has that like skewed perspective because it's all, it's hard to describe, but it's like all lined up visually.

It's a lot easier to tell where the platform edges are here than Mega Man X or Mega Man 7. I don't mind that it mixes things up with the jump, jump, jump, slide stuff. Like the voices are annoying, sure. But the bosses are weird and have quirky personalities. Like, why does clown man have Thunderclaw? It doesn't make any sense. But I feel like they're just, you know, they really went for it with some of the level designs, like Clown Man stage with all the toys.

Like, that stuff is actually pretty interesting. And if, yes, there's another fire boss or another boss that uses fire and another, another ice boss, okay. But I don't know. Like, this game works for me, and it didn't at the time. He's like a frost giant, though. Yeah, he's huge. The way he's introduced and smashing up all those ice clones of Mega Man is really cool, I think.

Yeah, that's kind of dark. He feels more like a Mega Man X-Boss in terms of scale and his presentation. So, I don't know, this one works for me. Maybe not for anyone else, but I'm willing to be the lone voice of dissent here. So where do we fall on this one? I'm putting it at 11. Yeah, same for me, 11. All right, Diamond

Well, by my math, I have a hole near the top of my list And I think I'm just going to slip us right in there and just say, you know what? I loved it when I first played it and I haven't played in a while. Maybe I'm wrong. But for tonight, it's a two. Wow, two. All right, I'm giving it three, actually. So this is polarizing.

I like it. Now we have a fist bite, right? Now the violence begins But I think you hit on it though Like we all we can all laugh at the voice acting today And it is really like it's really head scratching And like what the hell you seriously didn't have another take Like you just you couldn't you couldn't do one more take

But I think the game itself has a lot more to offer Than just the fact that the acting was poorly handled All right, so from here we move on to Mega Man and Bass. Base. No, he's Bass. He's definitely Bass. Not a fish. No. Bass like the shoe, the brand of shoes. He's Mega Man.

And then the guy who wears comfortable, sensible loafers. Bass and truce. Treble, definitely adds up. Treble. Okay, so I guess I'm not all about that base. So this one came out on Super Famicom years after Mega Man 7 and actually a couple of years after Mega Man 8 on PlayStation, it's a weird, like the Super Famicom was dead in Japan at this point.

Why did this happen? I don't know. I cannot give you a good explanation. I don't know why they did this, but it's a lot of. So it's basically Mega Man 8, like the mechanics and graphics and overall feel of the game, but at a lower resolution, which when it came to America, it came to Game Boy Advance and was an even lower resolution. So if you've only played the American version, I'm so sorry. Yeah, yeah. It recycles two bosses for Mega Man 8.

It's just a strange little game. Bosses here are Dynamo Man, Cold Man, Ground Man, Pirate Man, Burner Man, Magic Man, Astro Man again, and Tengu Man again. So... Didn't they resurrect most of those from the DOS games, too? Like, it was... Did they? No, the choices were made. I think Dynamo Man was from the Doss game.

And I think Pirate Man was as well. That's pretty cool. Okay. That was a choice they made. It was a choice. There's a lot of choices made in this game. I do appreciate the fact that... one, it lets you play as

base. And he has a totally different style of play. It's kind of Gunstar Heroes-ish, where Mega Man is like the run-and-gun character and base is the stand-in-place and fire in different directions. It's the difference between red and blue, basically. So that's kind of neat. And what else?

They kind of write Dr. Wiley out for most of this. Your main villain is a robot named King, who there's kind of a Reploid thing going on with him. He's like Ah, robots must be independent. Throw it down the humans, except it's actually Dr. Wiley Plot. I really like King. King is cool because he makes Protoman

like the chump that he is by chopping him in half with an axe. That's true. There is that. Protoman's like, I'll deal with this guy. He shoots once, misses, and gets chopped in half. It's awesome. All right. So, anyway, what are your thoughts? Oh, I don't have a whole lot to say about this game, except I think I played it on an emulator gasp when it first came out to be available in that

regard. And wasn't that impressed, was even less impressed with it than the GBA for reasons that you already went over. The resolution was just impossible to work with. And playing his base was pretty cool. And again, as was just stated, Proto Man was made to look like a chump. But I don't have any sort of great thoughts about this game. I like it more than it probably deserves because I think what I didn't really appreciate it on the PS1 looks really impressive on the Super Nintendo. I think it looks fantastic. I like the fact that playing as base is basically easy mode, although it's not easy. This game is really, really difficult no matter who you play as. I think some of the bosses are quite cool, like Burnerman, who's almost a puzzle boss,

and he's really difficult, even if you know his weakness, because you have to push him off a cliff using an ice wall that slides along the ground, and he can just break it if he feels like it. So it's kind of BS, to be honest. But I still like it for that reason. I enjoy the fact that you can find little hidden CDs that give you a little database of all the Mega Man characters. Yeah, some of them are like really hilarious too. Yeah. And there was like, because I didn't know about when I played this, I didn't know about the Game Boy games. So I would see characters like punk and I'd be like, who the hell is that? Punk is dead, man. Oh man, not such a shame. And, uh, you know, this game came out exclusively in Japan for a while. So let's hear from

the guy in Japan. Well, it's kind of like Nadia. I definitely played this game first on emulation and just kind of was kind of confused by it and I didn't enjoy it as much as I enjoyed eight. So I just, yeah, it just didn't work for me. Fair enough. Yeah, and I imported this back when it was new, which I had kept that game because I'm sure it's worth a lot now.

But I played through most. of it and just could not get into it. I just, like, the entire time I was thinking, why is this game so bad? And then I realized it's because it was all warmed over Mega Man 8 content, but in a context, like in a framing that just didn't work. Like, yeah, it looks nice on Super NES, but it really feels compromised. Mega Man 8 was great to me because, you know, it gave you these really lush, detailed graphics, but it kept the screen proportions more in line with the NES games. So you had more room to maneuver. You didn't feel so crowded all the time. And when you blow that up or, you know,

basically scale down the pixel resolution of the screen and everything becomes bigger proportionately, it just ends up feeling more like Mega Man 7 and I don't enjoy it. And yeah, this one, I really, I was excited to import it. I was like, wow, I'm actually importing a brand new super Famicom game of the year of Our Lord 1998 or 99 or whatever it was. It seems so cool. and so edgy, so like, yeah, I'm really into old games. Screw you polygons. You're stupid. This is the future.

It's the past. But no, it wasn't, I did not like it at all. And then when it came out on Game Boy Advance, wow. That was... That did not work. Just a bad choice. Yes. Dare we say it, is Mega Man and Base the Dracula Kiss XX of Mega Man games?

Oh, yeah, I guess that's good enough, or maybe Haunted Castle. It's good. Castlevania Legends to Castlevania Adventure, too. Yes, that's another good analogy. Yeah, it's just, in my opinion, not great. But I'm curious to hear what your respected numbers would be, because maybe you feel differently. I think that the aggression of this game and the way that it really doesn't give you any leeway in the fight in, the battles does appeal to me because I quite like difficult 2D action games.

And in that respect, it feels a bit like a precursor to the zero series because you've got your dash, because it's more like, I mean, base feels like playing as Mega Man X, really. But, no, I mean, numbers, yes. I think it's four for me. I really do like it a lot. All right. Oh, I gave it like my 12 spot. Whoa.

Way down in the toilet. Okay. Diamond. Hmm. I can't go that low because, like you said, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, kind of a strange that it didn't exist and I do like that it exists but I just didn't really enjoy playing it so let's just say 11 okay that's also what I'm giving it an 11 sorry mega man and base um that's just you should not have existed you don't belong in this world

die monster So moving on to Mega Man 9, which represented a, one, first, a, like a decade-long gap between core numbered Mega-Man games, but also a fundamental rethinking of how you should approach Mega-Man. games, like the original series, on modern consoles, which was to just say the hell with modernity and go old school, not just old school, but all the way back to Mega Man 2, take away the charge shot, take away the slide, just focus on Mega Man and running and jumping and then basically say all these things you've learned over the past few decades of how Mega Man works. That's mostly right. But oh, then it's wrong. Surprise. And it really does feel like a game that, well, you know, it was made by Intecreates who made a bunch of Mega Man games before this.

So they really kind of got what Mega Man is about. But they also weren't afraid to kind of tweak players. It was less about like, hey, remember Mega Man 2? Wasn't that great? It's more like, remember Mega Man 2? Well, surprise, which is a, a fun little twist. It's a different approach to nostalgia, like kind of a skewed approach to nostalgia and playing against your expectations for interesting results. Not everyone likes this game, though, so let's hear it. I'm not going to say I don't like the game, but I don't like it nearly as much as most Mega Man stands. I feel... I keep saying stands. Sorry, it's the kids. I keep getting into my head these days.

Oh, no, those damn kids. Damn kids get off my lawn. Megastans. I just did not have a lot of fun with this game. Yes, it is extremely punishing. And the way you said Integrated has kind of made me think about how I like Integrates games. I even like the harder Zero games. But I feel like Zero really gives you all the tools you need to succeed. Zero is a bitch, but like you can like dash and you can cling to walls and you have, you know, tools to deal with what is thrown at you.

Mega Man 10, sorry, Mega Man 9, the way it just took away so much stuff from you, I feel like it really went, yes, it went back to basics, and I admire it for that, but it really just went right back to basics. I don't even think about Mega Man 2 when I play this game. I think about Mega Man 1, especially since I find that there was just no reason to take away interesting backgrounds. I know that's a small thing, but later Mega Man games, I mean, not even the later Mega Man games, like Megamman 3 and Onward, you had some pretty cool looking.

backgrounds, and heck, never mind, Mega Man 2 and onwards, you have some cool backgrounds. Mega Man 9 gave you a lot of black backgrounds, and I just found them extremely uninteresting. Yeah, I appreciate how tight the gameplay is, and I really appreciate the fact that a resurrected Mega Man and changed retro games as we know them, like retro style games, which is a trend that's still going on today. But it's just not one of my all-time favorites. Diamond, what do you think? Yeah, I respect a lot about it. I didn't really have as much fun playing it,

although I do like some weapons are really useful. I love how useful the concrete shot is, how it can be both a platform thing, and it can also just like immobilize, it just basically erases some enemies, which is really neat, and makes a platform, which is just cool. And how Galaxy Man, like,

that thing just literally sucks up the jewels from Jewel Man. like that's just that's just funny to me but yeah I I can't say I enjoyed as much as the the games it's clearly trying to draw upon but I do like I like that it's celebrating those games but it's also it's not as fun as those games to me so it's I also only have sloths left to the bottom of my list so it's going to be towards the bottom okay it's Stuart yeah I think this one's awesome I had a lot of fun with this one um I didn't like it the first time I when it came out so much I was probably the more most hype for this game than ever have been for any other game ever or will be again because all the enthusiasm has been

drained out of me now. But Mega Man 9, I just think they, I mean, it doesn't feel like, and there's Mega Man game, it feels like someone who played those games wants to make you look like a fool in a way, because it'll do stuff. Like, an example would be like, there are some enemies that are just a big pair of scissors that come towards you and you're thinking, okay, these are going to run into me and let's shoot them, but then they split so that if you jump to dodge them, they'll get you. But then they come back across the other side of the screen.

And it's like, okay, okay. And almost every enemy is like this. It has like one more maneuver or one more move that you think it won't have. You know that there's that classic Mega Man enemy of the enemies that come out of pitch you're jumping over. And they have that in this as well, but they shoot at you. Yeah, yeah.

It's little things like that. But despite being involved, very, a sort of cruel difficulty. I think that it all comes together really well. I think the level design is really strong. I think the music is absolutely awesome, like top tier, Mega Man music, especially Tornado Man's music. I think

the bosses are really fun to fight. I don't like the Wiley Stages. I think they went over the top with the difficulty in them. I remember fighting the last Wiley boss and nearly being in tears of anger because you have to bounce these weird eggs back at him and it just doesn't work right and it's really annoying.

But no, I really do this game. I think it's a really strong entry. It's really fun to play. I mean, the Integrity's had their kind of lead-in because they made a little mini-game for Mega Man Z-X advent, which was a 8-bit Mega-Man game starring Axe, not Axel, Model A. So there was a little pre-clusive, but that wasn't as good as this. This was like, that was like proof of concept, and this is just like a strong execution, I think. I really enjoyed it. Yeah, I feel like Mega-Man Alpha was what it was called. Yeah, yeah. Whatever that was. I feel like that was their sort of pitch to Capcom, like, hey, let us do this. It's going to be good.

Okay, trust us. And yeah, I pretty much agree with everything you said, Stuart. It's just, it really walks that line between, hey, it's a nostalgic crash gap, cash grab. Cash grab, yes. We did crash ages ago. I know, right? It's a nostalgic cache in. How's that? And, hey, this is a ridiculous kaiso game. Like, it really, there's a thin line between those two. And it really walks that. The Wiley stages are kind of frustrating. But then, you know, you also have like the endless mode and things like that to just challenge you. And it is definitely a game tuned toward people who have played a lot of Mega Man games, have kind of memorized how Mega Man 2 and 3 work and says, all right, let's let's go for it. You know, you think you're so good. But in fact,

you are not so good and you are going to die a lot. And I'm not normally into that, but I just feel like this does it so well that I am okay with all of its cruelty and insanity. So, yeah, you get a lot, you get a lot of, I mean, you can mitigate it because it gives you a lot of more bolts than the previous games with the bolts system give you. So you can just buy like 10 energy tanks quite easily, which is nice. But it's one of the, yeah, it's hard, but I think it's fair. I think it's fair. All right. So where do we put the numbers on this one? I'm going with eight. I also have eight.

All right. It's my number two. And it is also my number two. So 8-822, very consistent. It's polarizing, but not as severely as Mega Man and bass, bass, bass, bass, bass. So moving on into the final stretch, we've got Mega Man 10, which came out hot on the heels of Mega Man 9. and I feel like kind of eased up on the the cruelty a little bit. It was like, hey, hey, folks, you know, here's a game you can play and be challenged,

but also you can enjoy it. It's cool. We're all friends here. Great soundtrack again. The bad guys here. Oh, I forgot to mention the bad guys in Mega Man 9. Concrete Man, Tornado Man, Splash Man. Oh, sorry.

Splash Woman. The one lady robot master, mistress. Plug Man, Jewel Man, Hornet Man, Magma Man. Galaxy Man. I appreciate the fact that they have Splash Woman, but they resisted the urge to make Jewel Man, the female character. That I feel like that would have been the obvious stereotype, but they went with a mermaid instead, and that's cool.

I do appreciate that. Also, recurring the theme, Plugman. I didn't say it. I wasn't going to say it. And his weapon is called Plug Ball. All right. Well, we've got one of those here, too. We've got Mega Man 10 with Blade Man, Pump Man.

Commando Man It gets worse It gets worse I think from here on we're good though Chill man Cheap man Strike man Nitro man

And solar man So Imagine actually being chill man You'd be the happiest I know right Going the world That's you You got into

Top Man's grow operation Bringing it back to Mega Man 3 Mega Man's like Give me the rubber Wens a cure And you're like sure Whatever These are men These roadmasters, to me, have a very strong energy of just like, what's around the office?

Oh, it's a baseball. Okay. They had a sheep in the office is what you're saying. All right. So, yeah, Mega Man 10. What are our thoughts on this one? I like this one a lot more than nine. I feel like the cruelty of nine is certainly toned down here and substituted a lot more for fun.

I like the fact that you can play as a proto man in bass. and I like Strikeman's music is one of my favorite in the classic Mega Man series It's just so perfect for a baseball-themed boss Like, okay, fine, we're going to have a stupid boss based on baseball Here's the music go with it Ha-ha, he can't make fun of us now because the music's so perfect

I'm actually surprised it took this series From Japan so long to come up with a baseball boss Considering how popular baseball is in Japan But the mini bosses are like other sports It's very strange. There's like a guy in a goal. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like a living goal you fight at some point.

And I think there's like a basketball in there. It's strange. Yeah, but we got an explosive soccer ball before we got a baseball themed boss. So it's really kind of an unexpected twist. I'm glad they finally stepped up to the plate. And can we talk about how Otto is running a black market? Because that's amazing. And he has like a MET hat on, I think.

I'm totally not Otto. And Tango, the cat is just. slumming around on his counter. I always forget about auto, and I'm just like, oh, yeah, that guy, every time he shows up. He's there. But he fits well into the black market role. So there's a real lack of energy in our discussion of this game, and that could be because we've been talking for almost two hours now.

But I think also it kind of just represents the sort of Mega Man fatigue that comes along with this franchise. Like, the standalone entries often are good. then you keep rehashing and you're like, oh, like, for me, that's what Mega Man 10 was. I loved Mega Man 9. Mega Man 10 was very, very good, but also felt a little bit disappointing after Mega Man 9. I felt like the freshness and the vitality weren't quite there. But I have gone back to it since I first reviewed it.

And I've come around a bit on it. I feel like, you know, this is still a very good example of the Mega Man franchise, great music, great graphics, you know, for the A-Bid style, fun boss themes. and, you know, still designed and made with decades of Mega Man experience and just kind of, like, thinking, thought, like design wisdom under its belt. So, yeah, it's not as bad as I thought it was at first. I was kind of like, eh, lukewarm on this. But, but no, I like, I like to stand up for it. I like it fine.

I feel like they tried to do, like, for example, now, I might be misremembering this because it has actually been a while since I picked this one up. But when you have the enemy, when you have the robot master's weaknesses, you can't just use them straight. Usually there's some gimmick. Like with Nitro Man, I think you need to use the chill spike, but you have to actually drop it on the floor and wait for him to go over it. Or it won't what? You can't just directly shoot him with it.

And if I recall correctly, quite a few of the bosses had some weird little kind of puzzle solution. And that's kind of cool and creative, but at the same time, I don't want to do it. I just want to shoot something. Which is kind of hypocritical, because I early said, prefer it when you have to let me do put up a fight but there's putting up a fight and then there's making you do you know puzzles in the middle of a boss battle and that's not really for me yeah i mean you mentioned that with um with mega mann and base um yeah the the fact that you there's you know the boss you have to shove off the cliff with a weapon that may or may not work like there is a

there is a balance that needs to be struck between um hey this is a straightforward brain dead shoot the guy kind of boss like you know throwing three quick boomer or uh a rolling cutters at Alec Man and killing him before he can even move. Like, that's no fun. But at the same time, when it's too complicated, too fussy, that's also not enjoyable. It's like a Mega Man 7 when if you use the weakness weapons, the enemies more or less can barely touch you. Like Cloud Man will just repeatedly drop down. You have to wait for him to drop down, wait for him to get back up again.

The whole time is invincible. And it's just kind of dull. But, I mean, I prefer it when you just destroy a Cut Man in like two shots because that just makes you feel like a god. All right, so final thoughts on Mega Man 10, by which I mean numbers. I gave it quite high here. I gave it

a 3. Okay. I gave it a Mega Man 10. Ah, way out, way down. I also have 10. And I'm going with 5. So, man, once you get away from those early games, things are all over the number,

like all over the place. All right. And finally, bringing it home, Mega Man 11, the most recent game, released in, what, two years ago, three years ago, 2018, was that right? 2018. Yep. Which now is three years ago, so I guess not that reason. This was released across multiple platforms and really tried to do a lot to change up the whole Mega Man thing. It's the first classic core numbered Mega Man game with 2.5D graphics. It throws in the customization things where you can change your power or the speed of the action kind of on the fly. And yeah, it just adds a lot of, variety and sort of finesse to how you interact with the game. But is it good? That is the question. So the

bosses here, oh yeah, and the weapons often have multiple functions. They really threw a lot into this game. So you have block man, fuse man, blast man, acid man to go along with the grow operation for migraine 3.

Tees drinking out though. That's right. Whoa! Why are my hands so big? Tundra man Torchman, Impact Man, and Bounce Man. Bounce Man. So, weigh in. I am probably the only one who likes the game on this team right now. I know that I was on a Retronauts episode where I was defending the game while you're all throwing tomatoes at me.

And I'll do it again. I really enjoyed the game. It's a good return to form for Mega Man. I know it's different. I know it's very different. But I feel like whereas Mega Man 8 tried different things and didn't. work. Mega Man 11 tries them, tries different things, and it does work. And I think just to, if you want, like a good example of how I am right, because I am right, I watched the game run very

recently at Gamestone Quick, and just watching how elegantly the weapons were used and how they interacted with the stages was really interesting. Like, I had no idea you could freeze that stupid wall of fire, for example. But there were also other examples like, I think blast man's weapon could blow up in certain objects that were otherwise be in your way and yeah it was I just really liked everything about the game I like the aesthetic

and I'm probably the only one who's going to say that but here I am yeah I didn't like this one at all but I know me and when I actually bother finishing it I probably will end up liking it but I just couldn't get on with it I found it it's this really

this is not really the game's fault but I would die a lot and then be like, oh yeah, I can slow down time because I would never do it because I don't want to do it. It's not what I want to think about. I want to think about how my weapons interact with the environment, not about

this is too hard, so I'm going to freeze it. I don't really dig that. And to be honest, just fundamentally, I just didn't think the levels were that interesting. And I thought, Mega Man didn't feel like he fit in the world at all. It was just, I just think it just doesn't feel right. It doesn't feel like a Mega Man game to me.

I just thought the whole thing was just frustrating and the difficulty was spiked really high in ways that weren't possible to mitigate using the power gears and I've only got blast man left to kill maybe one day I'll do it but honestly I don't know I just couldn't get on with this one at all

It's funny you mentioned fit Stu because I think this is sort of the opposite of Megaman 7 and that you have this sort of redesign and you've got this new space and this is also now proper widescreen And to me, Mega Man proportionally is now too small. Like, it's now this massive chamber. I felt like I had flashbacks to Castlevania Circle of the Moon, where I'm this little tiny character inside this giant space and I just don't belong there.

It just, it weirded me out. I liked Mighty Number Nine better. Oh, God, Mike. Oh, wow. Shouts fired. Yeah, I hated Mighty Number Nine. Maybe that's part of the reason why I actually liked Eleven is because I had to review Mighty Number Nine for. U.S. gamer, and I just had the worst weekend in my life, practically, getting through that stupid

game. All right. As for myself, I'm kind of on the same page as Diamond and Stuart. I don't mind that Mega Man is so small, as Diamond put in the notes. I like having Mega Man is a small character on screen. I feel like it gives me more room to maneuver. But the combination of small Mega Man plus widescreen stages. Definitely it makes everything feel kind of drawn out. I hate, hate the stage designs. There's so many gimmicks. It's just like so many ways that you can make a tiny little mistake on these huge

screens and have to start all over again and work your way back up to a place. It's just like they kind of forgot what Mega Man is supposed to be. And I don't mind the change like the new innovations, the gears. Like, those are interesting. I appreciate the fact that they tried. I like the kind of multi-tiered weapons. I don't know. Like, it's just not fun to play.

It's just this game is a real chore to play, which is not the case for any other Mega Man game. I mean, even at its worst moments, Mega Man 7 still felt like kind of fast-paced, you know, even though it was kind of pokey in terms of maneuvering and jumping, it still just felt zippier than this game. This game just feels so, It's such a chore, and I don't enjoy it at all.

It's 100% not what I want from a Mega Man game. I remember playing a stage in this game where you're underwater, so you've got your underwater physics going on. There are spikes lining both the floor and ceiling and a current pushing you forwards, and it wanted you to do a jump between the spikes, landing on a rotating platform, and then jumping again. And I remember just thinking, like, Mega Man Zero 1 wouldn't do this. And, you know, and like I said, I'm sure that I will come around and like this game more when I eventually finish it, because I'm always like this. I'm always just like this. I don't like this. I don't like this. Oh, I like this now. But I just can't. I just couldn't with this one. I just found it difficult in a way that didn't appeal to me.

Yeah, I feel like if you want a kind of weird 2.5D Mega Man platformer with quirky mechanics and interesting revisions to how the game plays, how the game plays, how the series plays, go with Mega Man Battle Network, or Network Transmission for GameCube. Like, that was also kind of a mess and had a lot of issues, but I still feel like it was more spot on as, hey, this is still Mega Man, despite the fact that it has like that card system and you have to charge up and, you know, wait for your cards to recycle. It still felt more on point than this game. So, yeah, Mega Man 11 is a huge letdown for me. And maybe someday I'll look back at it the way I have with some of the other games and we'll say, oh, you know what?

I misunderstood this game. But for the moment, I am cranky and I feel like I am old and I'm allowed to be cranky now. So let's put a number on this one too. 12. It's all I've got left. I'm old and cranky too and I'm giving it as six. And it's my 12 also. So the lesson here to you folks is never do anything new or different.

That is the huge A huge mistake Video gamers do not like change And we just proved it That's right I demand change constantly But as soon as I get change Absolutely not

No this is the worst Just give me that thing That I loved 20 years ago All right. So maybe this isn't the best and most flattering showing for us, but so it is. This is still Mega Man Canon now. These are the official rankings. So, okay, the results are in.

I have tallied up the scores. And remember that the large, the largest numbers are the worst numbers. Sizeism is alive and active here on Retronauts. Sorry, folks. Smaller is better. Kind of like golf scores. Yes, golf scores. That's it.

Do any of these games make part? One of them does. So with 42 points, the worst Mega Man game is unsurprisingly Mega Man 11. I'm disappointed in all of you. Sorry, Nadia. It's the law. It's official now. Coming in at number 11 with 38 points is Mega Man and base.

Oh, my. Coming in at number 10 with 31 points. is Mega Man 1. Very sad to see it. But those are the numbers. Can't argue those. I'm actually quite surprised that it's so low. Yeah, yeah.

Someone brought down the average. Now, actually, I think that was one of those where all the numbers were kind of average. And therefore, they added up. At number nine with 29 points is Mega Man 6. One step above that with 28 points is Mega Man 10. one point higher than that, 27 points, is Mega Man 8. All right. So coming in at number 6 with 25 points, Mega Man 5, and then we have a tie at 24 points, 24 points apiece, games that I ranked really, really lowly.

And yet here they are up at number 4 with a tie, Mega Man 4 and Mega Man 7. Yes. In third place, we have Mega Man 9. And then unsurprisingly, second place is Mega Man 3, although Mega Man 9 only was one point lower than Mega Man 3, 20 points versus 19. Mega Man 3 is number 2. And finally, the greatest Mega Man game of all time. Surprising, absolutely no one, because we gave it away very early on in this show.

Why are you even listening at this point? Mega Man 2 with a mere five points. I shall inform the scribes. All right. So chiseled this into, uh, into, Stone tablets. This is the new 12 commandments. Oh, 10 commandments. Sorry. I got mixed on. You dropped one. Yep. I dropped one of the tablets. What movie was that from? History of the world, part one. Okay. I've never seen that movie, but I remember seeing a commercial for it when I was a kid. And my parents, or maybe my grandparents, yeah, my grandparents were like super religious and they were very offended by that. But I thought it was very funny. I give you the 12 thunk. The 10 commandments. That was perfect. How can you not laugh at that? It's funny. I never even heard of this before.

Especially with the little oi at the end. Who did this movie? I want to see it. Mel Brooks. Ah, there you go. Okay. That explains it. All right. So this Mel Brooksian podcast has declared Mega Man 2, the finest of all Mega Man games. Mega Man 12, the vintage that should be poured down the sink. Or Mega Man 11, the vintage that should be poured down the sink.

I'm sure if they do Mega Man 12, it will also be awful. Oh, I'm willing to give them the benefit of a doubt. Always believe, could be good until they disappoint you, until they prove otherwise. That's Futurnaut talks. We talk about the past. Exactly. We can talk about the next game.

Can I ask a pertinent Mega Man question while I've got this opportunity and I've got this sort of Mega Man brain trust gathered? Yeah. Is it Bubble Lead or Bubble Lead? It's Bubble Lead. It's lead. Lead. Lead.

Lead. But lead makes more sense because it's like bullet, like a lead. It sinks like a lead. It's a... Yeah, exactly. No, if you look at the name in Katakana, it's Bubble Lead. Is it really? Yep.

Okay, you give one of me with your knowledge of Japanese. Because it goes in front of you and use it to find the holes in that wily stage. We have no way of verifying this supposed catacana. Well, you could look at a Japanese screenshot or video of the game. That's usually... I don't think I will. Or you could play the Japanese ROM. Isn't that on the Mega Man Legacy Collection?

Didn't they put the Japanese ROMs on there? They did. Okay, well, there you go. I defer to you then. So I'm glad we could definitively say this. This is the one thing that I took the time to research in Japanese when I was playing Rockman 2. I was like, so what does it say? Bubble lead.

Okay, well, there we go. The funny thing is, I'm still going to say bubble lit because it sounds better. Yeah. It doesn't make more sense, but. It's what I thought it was when I was a kid, for sure. But nope, it is lead. So now we've gotten that, and we've definitively ranked Mega Man games forever. There will be, we will brook no arguments.

What else is there to say about Mega Man? Well, I guess there's, you know, Mega Man X games to rank. There's other things to rank. I don't know. If this episode goes over well, people like it on Patreon, the download numbers are good. We'll definitely do more of these. Mario, Castlevania, Mega Man X. Like I said, Crazy Castle.

There's so many possibilities. Rank all the versions of Sokoban. Yes. Yeah. Folks, there's the possibilities are nigh endless. Anyway. We have to do the Mario. We have to do the Mario.

games and start a real-life war. Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, that is, I still, I still get grief about my Polygon ranking for Mario. So that is definitely an episode that has to happen. I'm looking forward to it. But in the meantime, this has been a pretty long episode. So thanks, everyone listening to this for indulging us. Thank you, Diamond, Stuart, and Nadia for indulging me for a kind of slapdash thrown

together episode that was, I think, a lot of fun. And we'll definitely spark some conversations unless people are like, oh, these assholes again, which is understandable. No, not these jerks. These dicks. Anyway, this, I believe, is a normal retronauts episode. Let me check the schedule and see where it is. There it is. Okay, yes, this is a normal episode, episode 365.

You can listen to this once a day for a year to really drill it into your heads. So please, everyone, let us know where we can find you on the Internet. Retronauts, of course, meganauts. Meganauts, of course, can be found at retronauts.com on the Greenlit podcast network, and on Patreon, patreon.com slash retronauts. We're subscribing to the podcast for a few bucks a month. We'll let you listen to episodes like this week before anyone else gets to, except other patrons. And if you subscribe for five bucks a month, you also get exclusive episodes on every other Friday.

I believe the next exclusive episode is going to be Street Fighter 2. that seems like a good one, so you should definitely subscribe for $5 a month. You also, for that minor, minor inconvenience, that minor fee, that that price of a Grande Frappuccino get to enjoy some weekly columns and mini podcasts by Diamond Fight here. So Diamond, I'm going to hand the mic to you. Please let us know where your stuff is, aside from on Patreon. Yes. Well, I am very pleased by the Retronauts column that I'm doing every week.

week. People have really responded very well, and I'm very pleased to continue that into 2021. We're, you know, we're now the, as of this recording, we're early in 2021, but I've already kicked off the year. And every week there's something. Every, you know, it's not always a game, but every week there's something to celebrate. So I think it's been, it's been really fun to revisit stuff. Other than that, you can find me on Twitter, like my last name, Fight, F-E-I-T-L-U-B. I'm also got my own Patreon and my own Kofi just took up Fight Club on those services as well and you'll find me there

I'm really hoping to do a lot more creative work in 2021 more podcasting more writing more performances and yeah more argument about video games this was a lot of fun to record and I'm really glad I got to be part of it yes thank you for taking part Stuart where can we find you on the interwebs

Besides Retronauts.com, where I'm putting up blogs every so often. Not so much lately, I apologize, but I'm trying to hit back on the old writing horse. I have a couple of active podcasts. One of them is Arsholvania, and that's the British spelling of asshole, not the rubbish American spelling of asshole, which has no impact at all. Arshaelvania. That's where you keep your donkeys. It is a podcast where me and Coast Andy Hamilton, we come up with the worst. possible take on a video game

or video game sort of ephemera and then we tweet it and we look how many people become angry although we have got rules set like we won't do any rubbish doing air quotes we won't do any like SJW sort of stuff we're not that lame we'll do we're avoiding all that sort of stuff we're just trying to come up with very earnest very sincere awful opinions upset as many people as possible my other active podcast is anime chat which

me and co-ist Luke Fletcher watching every single episode of the cartoon Animaniacs. The twist is I hate Animaniacs. He really likes it. I really don't. So that's fun for me. I'm glad I've committed to doing that for many years. Yeah. And by the time this episode comes out, your shows will be on the Greenlit Podcast Network as well.

Hooray. Wow. Great job. Congratulations. This is very exciting. I'm going to be rich. That's right. Your name is now going to be Richard.

We will call you rich. Nadia. I am the co-host of the Axe of the Blood God podcast, which is an RPG podcast. We, with Cat Bailey, I examine RPGs, Eastern, Western, Old, New, everything we possibly can get our hands on. We recently went to dependent on Patreon, and you can find us at patreon.com forward slash Blood God Pod. And if you become a patron, and I really hope you do, number one, you get access to our surprisingly bustling discord where everyone has a really fun. good time. And you get access to extra pods. Like, for example,

we are doing television of the Blood God, which is where we examine episodes of supplementary game media. Right now, we are doing The Witcher. So please listen to us. We would like to entertain you. And finally, you can find

me, Jeremy Parrish, on the internet, at places such as retronauts, at limited run games doing stuff there. Sometimes inside the games themselves. out or inside the boxes of the games. You might see my name. And, of course, I do the video thing.

YouTube, my YouTube channel, Jeremy Parrish. At this point, I am well up to my waist in SG-1000 games, talking about Sega's early 8-bit history. And you can go to my YouTube channel, just my name, Jeremy Parrish, on YouTube, and learn about the Sega console that never came to America. apparently it came to Australia and England, but in limited quantities with only a few games. So it's kind of a mystery to the outside world, and I'm discovering things about it, and including the fact that I still am really bad at Mahjong.

So that is it for this episode. If it made you mega mad, then we did our jobs. And if it did not, we still did our jobs because we talked for a couple of hours and entertained you. And we filled your ears and your podcast. device with sound. And that's really what this is all about in the end. Is it not? It is. So, anyway, win, win. Yes. So thanks everyone for listening. We'll be back again next week with another podcast on Monday and then again on Friday with a bonus podcast for patrons about Street Fighter 2. The podcast is about Street Fighter 2, not the patrons. Maybe the patrons are

also about Street Fighter 2. I don't want to speak for you. I will let this podcast speak for me and only my opinions and everyone else can voice their own. I think I need it out. Okay, thanks everyone. Bye. Good night.

Good night. Goodbye, everyone. Goodbye. ...you know... ...that... ...toe... ...the... ...and...

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