Retronauts - Retronauts Episode 474: Evil Dead 2

Episode Date: August 15, 2022

The '00s Spider-Man movies might have put Sam Raimi on the map for most filmgoers, but the previous 20 years saw him experimenting in just about every genre. And most Raimi fans agree his greatest work to date is Evil Dead 2, an unexpected horror/comedy that—over the past 35 years—went from underground sensation to the most re-released film in the history of physical media. This week on Retronauts, join Bob Mackey, Henry Gilbert, and We Hate Movies' Steven Sajdak as the crew examines this incredibly unique and innovative movie that went on to inspire countless video games. You'll never look at chainsaws the same way again! Retronauts is a completely fan-funded operation. To support the show, and get two full-length exclusive episodes every month, as well as access to 50+ previous bonus episodes, please visit the official Retronauts Patreon at patreon.com/retronauts.

Retronauts is part of the HyperX Podcast Network. Find us in more great shows at podcast.hyperx.com. This week on Retronauts, we solve the mystery of the missing chainsaw. Hello everybody, welcome to another episode of Retronauts. I'm your host for this one, Bob Mackie, and this time we're looking at another movie on an episode of Retronauts. It's going to be the 1987 comedy horror classic Evil Dead 2. And, you know, normally on these movie episodes, we also talk about the games based on these movies. In this case, nobody wants to talk about these games.

They're not fun. The only thing good about them is Bruce Campbell. And, you know, it was a rare treat to hear him on any. thing back when those games come out. But who cares about that? The new game's kind of good. We're just going to be talking about this really great movie. And, yeah, that's the extent of this podcast.

Before I go any further, who is here with me today in the same room? Hush, little baby, don't say a word. It's Henry Gilbert. And Henry is peeking up through a trap door. We've got them miced up down there. And who is our special guest's first time on Retronauts? Who is phoning in from New York? Give me back my hand.

Stephen Sadek. of the We Hate Movies podcast, and of multiple appearances on the Talk, the Talking Simpsons. I don't know if you guys are allowed to cross promote here, but you guys are good on that. Oh, yes, it's all one big happy family. We're embezzling from each other, kind of, in a way. But yeah, like, this is something I've always wanted to talk about on the show, and I had not rewatched it for a while, and I thought, you know, in the back of my head, I'm a little self-conscious. It's so stereotypical of me, a 40-year-old white nerd to love this movie. and you know is it really that good and then I watch it again I'm like yeah it's perfect

I don't care I am a stereotype and I'm living it I'm loving it it's who I am before you any further though I'll give my my history with this movie soon let's start with Steve newcomer to the show Steve what is your experience with this movie and also Sam Ramey you know as people who listen to my show know I grew up a horror coward so I discovered any and all horror movies much later in life I see skipped, I totally skipped this one up until I think I was in my, like, living in Astoria when I was like in my mid-20s and, you know, started dating my wife, who loved this movie. And I was like, oh, wow, these movies are super fun. I watched Army of Darkness,

I think, first in the 90s, like on TV and that was not the right place to see it. And I was sort of didn't get it in terms of like, why is it so cheesy? You know what I mean? One of those things. And I just kind of wrote this whole series off with it. And then now, lo and behold, I've watched this one a ton Part one a little bit and actually I've now gone back to Army of Darkness a lot and love that as well. My Ramey stuff is, I'm a nerd

so I've seen all the Spider-Man movies. I also think that there should be a law that Sam Ramey has to make a movie like drag me to hell every five years. Like he could do whatever he wants the rest of the time but every five or so years he needs to make a short, mean

quirky horror movie. It could be 81 minutes. Like that's like that's either that or he goes to jail one of those kinds of things and then like but he has to give me 81 minutes of a wacky fun horror movie every five years I think that's very reasonable

I agree with you I think after that Oz movie that could be his community service I think he owes that to the world after making that Oz movie Henry what about you you and Sam Ramey and this movie how far to go back I got into him in my teenage years because I had

I didn't have I don't have to, I did not have an older brother, but I did have friends with older brothers. So some of my taste are informed in the older brother style way. You know, somebody will say, I got into Led Zeppelin because my older brother gave him the, gave me my, his old tapes or whatever. So I had a friend who quoted evil, or Army of Darkness, especially all the time. And I was like, what the hell are you quoting all the time? What is this? Because I never saw either of them until middle school.

and they showed me R.A. of darkness first. I actually did it completely backwards as well, Army of Darkness then. And I really enjoyed Army of Darkness, but when I saw Evil Dead 2, that was my favorite then because I did think Ash becomes almost too stupid and silly. Like he is not too stupid, but they made him more of a joke. And I think that the perfect balance, I found that the perfect balance for me is Evil Dead 2 of comedy horror. I totally agree.

But so then once I saw Evil Dead too, I like horror all right, though I hardly seek it out, and I can be pretty squeamish, but Evil Dead too, I loved it. I got it on, I rented it on VHS, I was lucky enough to have a local place that had it on VHS saw it that way. I've seen it in theaters like a couple times in rep places. I saw it at the Castro Theater, the famous Castro Theater. Hey, me too. That was so awesome.

We might have been in the same theater. I think it's possible. And yeah, and I will also say that, you know, when he was announced Sam Ramey as the director of Spider-Man, I knew comic fans who were just like, well, who's this guy? I don't know, this guy. But I was the Spider-Man is my favorite guy, character, period. I love him. So then when I found out that the director of Evil Dead 2 was going to do Spider-Man, I was in heaven. that was and yeah that was a wonderful day and it paid off so and then now every time i watch the

same ramy thing i'm just like where's that bruce campbell already like that's uh man he's so fucking good at that uh he's the best part of that multiverse of madness i would say all to pop all 30 seconds of him was my favorite part of that movie uh as for me like everyone else i saw army of darkness first and we'll talk about why that was so available compared to the other movies and like steve i was a big horror coward because i had an uncle who was a real horror hound and he was a truck driver and we were living with my grandma and he lived

with my grandma too. It was a big happy family but he would come home on the weekends and just run a ton of horror movies and I would just like stay out of the living room because I could just hear the noises coming out of it and he would psychologically torture me by telling me the things that happened in the movies and I was sure that if I watched the movies I would see people literally

being murdered like in my child brain that's what I thought so I avoided horror for a long time even when I was old enough to watch horror movies Legally I guess I thought like I don't need to see these they're probably not very good But I was still afraid so when I I had a roommate that was a real horror fan like he wanted to show me these movies and I was like in my mid 20s So I was a little too ashamed of being scared of a horror movie so he's like let's watch evil dead too It's really good. I was like oh no, what if it's gross? What if it's scary? And yeah, it's it was amazing and it blew my mind and it reminded me of

You know reading in magazines and going online you hear about these evil. Evil Dead movies in the early to mid-90s and I was like oh evil dead too I hear that's good even though it's horror it's going to be scary but people say it's really fun so I need to see it it was so hard to find on VHS until it was the most released movie of all time and I remember like every local video store nobody had it I went on a trip to uh to California to visit my friend who was living with his parents at the time and I was 19 years old and we were kind of still being treated like kids like hey let's go out and rent movies and they had a copy of Evil Dead 2 and I was like finally I can see it I can finally watch Evil Dead 2 and then we bring the movies up to the counter and his stepmom is like we are not renting something called Evil Dead 2 no no no you take that back I was 19 years old I could have been sent to die in Afghanistan and I was being denied Evil Dead 2 so instead I just put it out of my mind and I waited I don't know like five or six years to eventually watch it but yeah like I remember there was a time when the Evil Dead movies were scarcity

they were they were hard to find i i was very lucky my friend's older brother uh had the kept talking it up and that there was something local to to watch it on yeah and it became this like thing to just tell each other like oh evil dead too isn't this the coolest thing like there's this scene in high fidelity i love where like uh jack black's character says did you need somebody to tell you evil dead too was cool or like you can you explain why able dead two is cool like it was just it was a thing you and record store guys are basically video store guys which i aspired to be in the 90s and became one in the odds so yeah i mean uh you were telling me henry that you had to get like a bootleg of evil dead to see it yeah well yes they

uh the as i now recall yeah the the older brother copied it like copied it from the they knew how to dub tapes they had the two vCRs uh set up yeah and because this is a video game podcast I should note that playing Duke Nukem 3D is what got... Hey, it's a good game. No, that piss me off when I... Sorry. Let me finish my statement. Please.

Duke Nukem 3D, he steals every line from Army of Darkness. Hail to the king, baby. And also, Roddy, Roddy Piper from They Live. He steals his lines too. So I hear those lines so many times I playing Duke Nukem 3D that when I hear them in Army of Darkness, I can't not think of Duke Nukem. And it was a time in video games when you could

just plagiarize. Sorry, Steve, if you are out of the loop on Duke Newcomb and what he's been up to lately, but 1996. I have not caught up with Duke in a while. So is the idea that Duke is just a movie fan, or are the writers just that, like, because that would be cool to bake that in if he's just like, oh, yeah, I'm a huge crazy fucker that loves movies and hanging out. I kind of doubt that that's the case. Yeah, I don't think they were thinking that much about Duke's, like, inner life

or anything like that. I think they just liked Army of Darkness and didn't want to pay to make an Army of Darkness game. I think they were all a bunch of like Texas dorks who, you know, love those movies and like, well, it's cool if this guy just said this stuff like the biggest badass in movies, but yes, I, sorry,

Bob, I cut off your story with my ugh because I have the experience of seeing Duke Nukem 3D first and seeing like friends play it and then getting to play. They had the computer I could play it by my couldn't so I didn't play it for a while. But I thought his lines were cool. And then when I

see Army Darkness. I was like this they just ripped it off like that's that should be illegal like yes but Duke Nugam 3D for its time a good shooter it's I don't want to hate on it too much it was a really good shooter I think we'll do an episode about that in the future but yeah it's important

to note also that uh if you're thinking of that version of Ash he is not the one in this movie and I always have to remind myself that because he's got a ton of like movie action star quips in Army of Darkness in this movie he says like you're going down And that's basically, or like, who's laughing now?

That's basically it or like, swallow this or something like that. Thanks to the two lines of groovy and swallow this, like that was his, after that movie, they're like, well, if we're going to do a sequel, everybody will have that groovy moment. What if that was just him all the time, right? Like, sorry, Steve. You're right. No, no, yeah, he turns to do it totally intrepid hero. What I like about this movie and watching it last night, it was one of those things where I saw this, we saw this movie, my wife and I, there's a retrospective show. in New York in March so when you asked me to do this I was like oh is it too soon to watch

this movie and I was like I'll do it anyway and then I turned on like oh I'm totally in it's been four months that I'm totally fine watching this movie right again just after having seen in theaters and what you notice about Campbell's what I love about the performance and the character is you know one obviously it's a man which is obviously very different for a horror movie as a lead two is that it's about delirium which I think makes more sense than like being extra scared all of the time like at a certain point if you're that terrified you're just going to go fucking nuts and I think that's what this movie kind of points to is just that he kind of just goes nuts throughout the film not to mention that he's also

possessed and all sorts of other stuff is going in and out of his body but he just kind of goes fucking nuts and I kind of love that about this performance and like to Henry's point that was always kind of my sticking point with Army of Darkness he's a little too cool for the room and it's fun but it's also like I kind of just like watching this version of as well yeah evil dead one he's still kind of a normal guy at least he starts there evil dead two he begins the slow burn of going insane in my head army of darkness is when something in his brain is snapped and he's just become a different person yeah yeah he just is like i'm an insane man and nothing matters anymore so it's just time to pretend i'm an action star also it's like

homer simpson and that he gets dumber every movie too yeah he's there's it's it's so great on the the old commentary that's even on the most recent 4k release they're joking about like man ash is an idiot why's he going back in there and that once i heard uh you know campbell and ramy and all them joking about i was like that's why he's written so goddamn stupid an army of darkness is like clatu whatever yeah i got a mostly right yeah Let's Let's talk about And where he began up until Evil Dead 2.

So, yeah. in 59, Ramey took interest in filmmaking as a very young man, especially with a young man named Bruce Campbell. They met as teenagers in 1975. It began a long history of them making movies and him beating up his friend Bruce through the medium of film, basically. Yeah, I'm going to steal this from our pals at Blank Check, but it really is like the nerd and the jock befriended each other and the jock is nicer than the nerd is and the nerd is like, I'm going to bully you back for the rest of your life, the jock. Like, I'm going to make you pay for it. Yeah, it's a career. so handsome. It's just the most adorable story in all of Hollywood that these guys are just old friends and this guy just happened to be good looking enough to be in movies and actually, because usually you have to jettison your ugly friends when you become famous, especially if you're a director, like, you know, unless you're Kevin Smith and then you bring your ugly friends back, but you kind of, you do jettison them for a while and you get like sexy Hollywood people and because, you know, blah, blah, blah. But I mean, I think it's really cool to have to, you know, you know, you

You're lucky to have your sexy friend that you can kind of just ride for a while, which sounds very weird when I said it out loud. Now a word from our sponsor, Better Help. You know, next to being a coal miner in an active war zone, podcasting is one of the most stressful professions in the history of all jobs. From playing video games to writing about video games to talking about video games, sometimes the stress can be too much. Personally, I think that's from having to learn about every Garfield game.

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I guess less attractive than Bruce Campbell, which is a very high bar. They became like writers and producers on his stuff. They stopped being in the movies because he started extremely young. So he is making short films his entire teenage years. He's doing it in college.

He makes two short films. One within the woods is 1978. That is the prototype for Evil Dead. The second one is clockwork. These are made to get funding for a potential feature. And also in college, they make a movie called It's Murder. That's 77.

And so, so young. I like Evil Dead One. I went back to it. I think it's underappreciated because Evil Dead 2 gets all the attention for a reason. But it is such a well-made movie, especially when you consider that Sam Ramee is 21 years old making this movie. And you think, like,

Oh, Kevin Smith, Wunderkin, clerks, he was 24, he was 24 when it came out. No, Sam Ramey could barely drink while making Evil Dead One. And that is like such a visionary, sincere horror movie. And this is such a meta-horror movie. But still, like, what an early starts for Sam Ramey and Bruce Campbell as well. No, it's amazing that he's, you know, still, he's not like so old now even that he can still make movies. And it feels like, wow, he's still doing it. That's awesome.

like that he's yeah i mean to consider evil dead is like almost a student film level like because it's a lot of just friends in uh and stolen shots and made with very little money like that they i mean the the inventiveness of the the the demon vision whatever the first person shots like incredible incredible that somebody could even think of that back then yeah but whereas this movie every other shot is just so busy bizarrely inventive and that's what you watch it for, just checklist of like, oh, well, now the camera's doing that, now the camera's doing this. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, use the money really well, obviously. Yeah, you can see the innovations between movies where, yeah, they're literally

filming in a cabin. Evil Dead 2, it is part like facades and part sets. We'll talk more about that later. But yeah, there are like cranes. The camera moves are more, you know, complicated. It's not them sliding a camera down like on a rail towards a cabin. They're, they have a real equipment this time. They can fill an entire room with geysers of blood. They couldn't do that. They'd ruin that cabin. Yes, yeah, they'd get in trouble. Yeah. But yes, so they make Evil Dead 1 after using

Within the Woods to get funding. This is pre-crowdfunding. You basically ask, you know, friends and family members. Evil Dead a modest hit for a low-budget horror movie. It's loved by critics. Stephen King is a big champion of it, and that is how Evil 2 is made. That's Stephen King quote on

the video box of Evil Dead. like that's that's why sam ramy has a career like stephen king did such a gift to him with that and it's so weird that they never worked together right i mean unless i'm getting that wrong it's just so i think i was reading one of the reasons del rents de lrentis got involved was he actually pitched de lorenst did uh thinner to sam ramy and sam ramy said no uh just because he didn't want to he was working on other stuff and later on like you know uh Stephen king put a bug in De Laurentis's year like, no, you should give make whatever this guy wants kind of a thing

which is so bizarre. Yeah, that's true Steve. Actually, it was on the set of maximum overdrive. The only movie that Stephen King directed during a very a rich time of addiction for him, let's say. And yeah, Dea Laurentis was a big reason why Evil Dead

2 was made because of that, yeah. And I mean, too, look at the success of Sam Ramey start with Evil Dead is that it is one of like the medium changes and can open up new opportunities for people that like the the video store market and for cheap films like that that can also be sold from just a VHS box on the shelf that invents a whole business internationally for for Sam Ramey that didn't exist

before you know it's it's like how people get discovered on YouTube or Twitter or whatever now he back then it was like this film would have been shown like in three theaters in Detroit and nobody would have heard of it again, but thanks to VHS's, like, in beta, I guess, too, in the early 80s. Like, that's how people actually saw it around the world. And the context behind all this is, this is the early 80s and mid-80s. Horror has a huge stigma attached to it. It's not, we're not living in the era of 824 or Jordan Peel.

These are, like, disgusting movies for perverts, which I think is a big reason why Bruce Campbell did not become a movie star. It's because, oh, you're the insane man from that awful horror. movie no get out of here but actually so between evil dead one and two i didn't know this until i listened to the blank check series about sam ramy check that out it's great uh they did a movie called crime way from nineteen eighty five and it's weird to think that sam ramy and the cohen brothers their collaboration made an unwatchable mess that everyone hated and nearly drove sam ramy out of filmmaking it's crazy to hear the stories of that yeah that i'd i've still never seen it

it's always in my like top four my wife goes to bed one of my watching and then I watch something else you know what I mean it's like I scroll through everything for two hours and barely watch anything but then it's like crime wave tonight and then it's like maybe I guess it would be my completionist thing if I were to watch it because it is like I think it is the only Sam ramey directed movie I've never seen and I watch most of his like TV stuff too I should say yeah about crime wave uh so uh the cohen brothers made their own crime movie in 85 uh blood simple and it's it's an amazing first film but crime wave is really bad and uh that that sort of ends their collaborations kind of in a way but like joel cohen was an editor on the first evil dead so they were like film bros going back to the early 80s and you got uh bruce campbell sneaking in fargo as a uh what he called there as a soap opera actor uh right yeah that's right yeah they're all kind of buddies you're all kind of buddies you're all kind of buddies and fargo as a what he called there as a soap opera actor uh right right yeah that's right yeah they're all kind of buddies which is like one of the cooler things like that's a fly on the wall i'd love to be you know what i mean is just watching those guys hang out and talk movies but yeah and the campbell thing is interesting because it is like he was too cheesy to succeed kind of a thing and yes to your point like you definitely get blacklisted and you also think about people now i'm just going on a rant but like you think about like christopher reeves career just got ruined for being superman now you can be superman you're expected to be at least three superheroes uh before lunch and then you can get real work

kind of a thing. It's a odd how everything flipped. Hollywood assignment. Yes. Well, the serious films are what you do like every couple years to just say like,

see, I'm a real actor still. I'm in a Wes Anderson movie in the background. Like, I did a couple lines there. Well, the thing that kind of stinks about Ramey

is like a total lack of confidence, I think, in what he does because the 90s for him had some real ups and downs. Like he was trying to get away from both horror and his style because he was never like a major, or horror fan. They were just easier movies to make

and there was a big market for them. So the 90s, we have Darkman, which is an amazing film. I love Darkman so much. A great, like, Batman style superhero movie. Like, between Darkman, Batman, the Rocketeer, and Dick Tracy, like all these movies have the same tone of that era.

It made me think all movies would be like that going forward as a kid. Unfortunately, that wasn't the case. So 92 Army of Darkness, it barely made back its budget. And then we have the Quick and the Dead, which really derails Ramey's style. Quick in the Dead is like basically a Western made in the style of Evil Dead 2 with all of these dynamic camera moves and over the top characters.

People hated it because it wasn't a serious, like, mature Western. And then... And for Retronauts listeners, if you've never seen it, it's a video game-ass movie. It really is. It's a fighting game movie. It's like adapting a fighting game that's only about shooting guns. It's a great, like, tournament movie. And just to speed through the rest of his career really quick.

In the 90s, he's like, I am going to get away from. everything i used to be so we have things like a simple plan which i think is the one success he has in trying to not be sam ramy it's an amazing really great it's him doing a con brother's movie not to be reductive and then we have uh for love of the game and it's a baseball movie who cares and also uh the gift uh and then he goes into spider man and then uh drag me to hell and then dr strange and the mom yeah i uh i remember watching a making of and this was like a very cheesy making of on MTV about Spider-Man 2. I only

I mean, I was going to watch it anyway, but it was hosted by Bruce Campbell and so it's like you know, I'm definitely going to watch it and Bruce Campbell jokes about like, yeah he used to be Sam Evil Dead Ramey and that's not going to be it anymore. He is Sam, Spider-Man, Ramey

and he always will be and I and when Campbell said that it made me a little sad. I was like, oh yeah, he's not mine anymore. He's not, he's not the nerd. Well, I mean, he is the nerd with Spider-Man, but he's not as niche anymore. We had we had lost him as the

video store clerk nerds. Yeah, I think that like, and also like the Oz movie is probably a good example of like, I don't, I don't know if he works with that kind of a large scope, you know what I mean? Like, obviously Spider-Man is an enormous movie, but

it is sort of the way he films it. It's about weird, broken people and people going insane. Look at Willem Defoe. You know what I mean? And even Dr. Octopus, you know what I mean, like totally just going nuts. Like these are kinds of like small, it's all like internal character stuff that he does really well. You know, the great world of Oz is just not for him. And I think that that's sort of, I would like to see him have more opportunities.

I thought Strange was okay. I liked it less than other folks, but more than others as well. Like it's just okay. It's not, it's not the Ramey movie I wanted. You know what I mean? Because it's not a Ramey movie. But weren't the flashes of Ramey great in it? Like when it was like, oh, look at that.

Wow, the camera's moving that way. Can I just get that eight-minute cut? Yeah, exactly. It would save me a lot of time. Basically, the last half hour is super fun. You know, the zombie, I agree with you. Zombie strange, and you've got the music fight is really inventive and cool. I'm like, I haven't seen anything like that before.

I'm watching a Sam Ramey movie. Yeah. Yes, yeah, the movie music fight. When his zombie character came out, was like, he's going to cover. Like, I love that bit of like, he's going to cover, Benit Cover, Batch, you know, a bunch of uncomfortable makeup and making talk weird. This feels like Sam Ramey's. This is some

level of torturing his actor. And of course the other part that feels very real about Dr. Strange for Sam Ramey is it's a two-faced woman who turns horribly evil and kills the Scarlet Witch. Like I'm sure that's really what attracted him to Oz of like, oh yeah, I can do

the story of how the Wicked Witch of the West was born because a man lied to her and then she turned into an evil monster as all women do. there's some stuff with women in his movies like boy sure i mean it happens when you're making a horror film yeah yeah hey quick in the dead not that oh yeah the woman does go through a transformation but to just be more of a badass

yeah sharon stone amazing in that film Let's talk about the production of the movie. So we mentioned Crime Wave, massive failure for Ramey. They were trying to get funding for Evil Dead 2 before CrimeWave even happened. Like as early as 1984, you can see in the trades they were seeking funding for something called Evil Dead 2, Evil Dead and the Army of Darkness. Because in Sam Ramey's head, he's like, Army of Darkness is the next Evil Dead movie. That's what I want to make my Ray Harryhausen fantasy epic.

So, yeah, Crime Wave, Massive Bomb, then he gets hooked up with Dino Dina Larentas, and he agrees to fund another Evil Dead movie, but his stipulation is it's got to be R-rated. You've got to give me an R-rated cut. That didn't happen. We'll talk more about that soon. And also, you have to make a regular sequel.

You can't make your fantasy thing. Just make a regular horror movie, and then we'll talk. So, yeah, he was able to get a much higher budget than he was used to working with. For whatever weird reason, the format of this movie is very strange in that it is like both a sequel to and a recap and remake of the first movie. It is the most unique format for a movie I've ever seen. Like, I don't think there's any other movie like this. Class is back in session, HyperX has the grade A gear you need for dorm life, remote classes, and for schooling folks online.

Shop the HyperX back to school deals going on. hyperX.com to help make your return to student life a breeze. Comfortable cloud headsets can help keep you focused in as you cram for finals with some lofi beats and stay productive with lightweight pulse fire mice, responsive alloy keyboards, and more. Keep your GPA and your KDA high with HyperX products and accessories. Yeah, it feels like that amazing leftover sandwich you can make in Thanksgiving where it's got the turkey and the stuffing, but it's like, and it's kind of somehow much better because it's more condensed and like it's sitting in the fridge for overnight makes it taste better. I think that there's a little of that going on here where it's

like there is this condensation of all of these ideas. And it is, I mean, and obviously like there he, it is less, I think this movie is obviously less interested in like, let's continue the story of evil dead because I think that this is a bridge to your point, Bob, is the bridge is we got to get to army of darkness. That's where the story has to go. And it's like, I'm going to make this weird bridging movie, but I'm only, but I'm more concerned about how these things happen as opposed to why and what actually happens, I guess. Yeah, a lot of details are changed. I'm not going to go over all of them, but you know, in the first movie, Ash is a bunch of friends. In that first movie, you're waiting like half an hour for anything to happen, really. I mean, there's lots of

tension, but this movie just, it just starts. You're just, it's, you're just in it immediately. And, you know, it writes the, the friends out, the girlfriend is different. The book isn't burned. At the end of the first movie the evil force invades ash. That's the last shot of it going like into his mouth. That happens in this but it has to recap the first movie and kind of rewrite it first. So the first like eight minutes

are not like a redundant portion of the movie but they are just like a previously on Evil Dead kind of thing. You know if you just if you forget the bit about the burning of the book and just forget that part you could just think

okay the opening bed doesn't matter just I'll start the movie where the camera hits him and it's picking up right from where Evil Dead One starts like you you can tell yourself that and I mean I think it works it was also because they couldn't get the rights to the

footage but that's I think that made it better honestly makes it a better first movie for people that you can show your friend and it makes it such a great like look I know it's called Evil Dead Two don't worry like we'll just start this and then if you watch Evil Dead one later then you can connect it pretty easily yeah we love those recaps though like you know like the superman movies

always start with like previously on superman which is kind of insane because you just don't trust your audience to have just watched the movie you know what i mean like which now obviously it's like if you show up to to whatever marvel movie you better have watched everything else or or fuck you you know what i mean but back then it was more like well you could and it's also similar like how comics are written now versus then like comics would always be like the thing would be like man ever since that cosmic ray turned me into the gosh darn thing in every issue and it's like now you don't have to do that as much because we just sort of assume that the audience wants to be there

but I think that there was just a shift in kind of nerd culture and just sort of you know sequelized culture in general yeah and I think you could be you were less expected to have seen the first movie with its limited release and you know not every video store had every video at the time like like my story about trying to find Evil Dead 2 if a store didn't buy the VHS in 1989 or whatever, they weren't going to have it.

That could be the same for Evil Dead One. But, yeah, so Ramey wrote this movie with Scott Spiegel. He worked with him as early as his college days. Spiegel is one of the main actors in within the woods, the short that helped fund the first Evil Dead movie. Keeping it all in the family there, yeah. And hey, you know what? It's a great movie, and he did a good job.

Oh, yeah, he's great. And it should be noted that they lived in an insane house. The people living in this house during the production of Evil Dead 2 were the co-opening, the Cohen brothers also Francis McDormand Kathy Bates and Holly Hunter and in fact the role of Bobby Joe written for Holly Hunter but she was cast to be in Raising Arizona and she'd have been great

to see Holly Hunter swallow that eyeball that'd be so that'd be so great but yeah I just want to know what like what was the roommate situation who slept on the couch were their fights over leftovers Kathy Bates seems to be the odd man out in this situation She's not invited to the parties with all the other, even though she's a very successful person.

She's not in, yeah, it's, you know, then that Coen Brothers crossover too, also the Bruce Campbell thing, the Coen brothers are barely involved, basically not involved in that Fargo TV show. But I love when they cast the people from the extended Cohen universe, like in the second season, Bruce Campbell's in that too playing Reagan for a one-off scene. Oh, really? Wow. Because it's said in 1980 during the presidential campaign, and so Reagan comes to the town, and there's, he's playing Reagan. And I'd say kind of broad version of Reagan. You know, he's getting older. Yeah. I wish there's a whole little mini series of him as Reagan, honestly.

That could be like a prestige Apple TV show. Exactly. That one person watches. Now we have to do it. I just did the math in my head. that's six people three guys three girls who is the cast of friends here so you've got i think sam ramy has to be the chandler possibly then you got yeah i'd see that or is he the joe i mean you get you got the and then you got the cohen boys and then you know i guess holly hunter's monica

maybe uh with franny mcd possibly being your uh your rachel you know i'd say man because sam ramy i was have said he's the nerdiest guy but i think the coens are both nerdier than him that's true weird dudes like they uh that's true yeah so you know i'm gonna say since chanler chanler and monica together that's the francis mcdorman and uh joel right that's the husband yeah perfect and then i'm gonna have to say that sam ends up being the joey of that room i have to say he actually is the the the less nerdy one i like i guess i don't know i don't want to throw this in but he's got to be the hunkiest one then.

Sam Ramey could be the most attractive out of all of those men. I need pictures of them in 1985. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, and I think that obviously Kathy Bates turns into Phoebe pretty quickly, just, you know, as the outsider, the weirdo. I think she defaults to Phoebe. I agree. I think we've cracked it.

I'm glad we did that. But because they had more money for this movie, it's not shot on location. Well, some of it is. They build a facade of the cabin and some exterior sets and things like that, but it's mostly shot within this, like, crumbling junior high school that was no longer being used. They built sets in the gymnasium, and I know it's like movie magic, but it's weird to think that when you're looking at these shots in the cabin, they're also inside of a high school gym at the same time. That making of doc you shared me about that I'd never seen before.

It's on the Blu-ray. Yes, it's called Swallowed Souls, the Making of Evil Dead 2. It's currently on YouTube. I assume it was some DVD extra at some point, but they show a ton of behind-the-scenes footage from that school. It's amazing. And they talk to everybody you'd want to hear talk to, and they don't waste any fucking time talking to people who didn't work on the movie who are just like fanboys. I hate when Docs do that, mostly. But yeah, it was crazy that, you know, every Marvel movie is now filmed in Atlanta.

Everything's fake. Like, oh, that's not New York, it's Atlanta, whatever. To know that in the 80s, up to, like, the early 90s, like North Carolina was that. Yeah. It was where all these things were filmed. Like, the Turtles movie was filmed there, too. it's like oh the ninja turtle is not really in the new york so much just a few exterior it was it was the atlanta of its day and i think like di laurentis wanted them to film in his uh closer studios like

that were like adjacent to his like production offices but i guess they found a way to work away from him which is why they were able to get away with so much stuff uh and of course they they filmed a new north carolina as well to avoid you know uh unions and a lot of uh all of that stuff yeah i'm sure that accounted for it but yeah that doc is great it's on you YouTube now. It's probably on some release, but you can see they basically took over an entire school and made it their offices. Like, you can see like, uh, Ramey in like the principal's office. That's where he's doing editing and like writing up notes and like the science labs were taken over by the special effects team. And you can see them doing all of their crazy puppets and

stop motion and things like that. It's, it's really great to see just how they occupied this strange space and made into the Evil Dead 2 factory. And there's just so many easier ways to make this movie that they chose not to do. And I mean, aside from, like, how bloody it is and how crazy the violence is, but just sort of, again, like, the camera is never where you would expect it to be. You can just sort of, when you're watching this movie, you can kind of almost see the storyboards. Do you know what I mean? Because it's so important to how the scene actually functions that this has to happen and the body. And like, obviously, the physicality of Bruce Campbell is almost its own special effect in its own. Oh, you're totally right about that.

Steve, like going into the movie, and I actually wrote down the time, it's basically, I mean, there are cutaways of different characters as they're approaching the cabin, but it's essentially you're watching Bruce Campbell alone for 37 minutes. Yes, he's fighting his dead, ex-girlfriend, whatever. But it's basically the Bruce Campbell show. Again, a very, a very daring choice. It's sort of like the beginning of Wally. Just like, here's one character, the dialogue, if there is any, and there's just him muttering to himself. It doesn't really matter. But it's like, here's just a fun performance. I, you know, I would say every time he, every time the rest of the characters show up,

I'm always a little sad. I'm like, ah, this. Yeah. His, I mean, other people got to show up because you need more bodies to die, of course. Like, you can't, he can't actually be alone for that long. But yeah, I, and when I saw it, uh, in a theater for the first time with, you know, more than just my bros on the couch hanging out or alone, I mean, it was a whole other level of enjoyment. Like the scene of him

there's so many great scenes but the scene of him going crazy and laughing with everything when he goes up and down with the lamp like the entire audience is laughing with it and just like when he goes and he stops and the lamp falls over and he goes like

ah ha ha ha like the feeling in that audience is so great and then he turns it in from laughter to screams of torture like it's God infectious yeah singing with an audience I mean any movie it gets better, but this movie, you can really, it's a vibe. It's totally

a vibe. It is. And it's, I'm sorry, the front flip always catches me. In the kitchen, he does this perfect front flip, like a clown in the middle of this insane, harried performance, and you're just like, man, this guy gave everything in this movie. He just, you left it all out there.

It's an athletic performance. Yeah, we'll call it a different scenes later, but yeah, Steve, I underline that in my notes where I knew it was coming this time because like you, Steve, I just watch this movie in the spring and I was like yeah sure I'll watch it again and I knew it was coming and just watching the performance like he walks forward a little bit and he has to flip he has to do a complete flip while holding the back of his head too it's an amazing

feat and I should note that like I think he was training every day with like Mr. North Carolina his day started like at six in like two hours of training because he is an amazing shape in this movie yeah he's a beefcake in this movie absolutely yeah the chin is at full providence yeah see that's he's he's hot in a ridiculous way like his chin is so like big in a good it's like oh what's what's a leading man a strong chin and it's like to such a ridiculous extent it is it makes him a great comedy star too when he needs to be he's almost got like a jim carey as physical performance almost yeah uh sorry steve go ahead no but but he is also which makes him great for this movie specifically in other stuff that he's done

he's kind of a character of a leading man you know what I mean because the chin is so pronounced and he is like sexy but it's also like there's and he's like dangerous and all those good things you want but it is the goofiness makes him into you know that that sort of caricature of the intrepid hero as well as the intrepid hero yeah if you go back to the first movie he is a lot more of like a sweet and sensitive character and Bruce Campbell is not I mean he is like kind of like gawky almost and like awkward he's got like unibrow he is not like the parody of an action movie star you see in this movie. He's a man named Ashley. That's right. Oh, yeah. How can that be? When it hasn't been your day, your week, your month, or even your year, we'll be there for you. I'm Ryan, the lion is always a dot to me.

And I'm Mark. How are you doing? And we are a podcast of two friends watching Friends. We live in every episode of the TV show Friends in all its glory, they'll be behind the scenes and discussing all our favourite moments. Join us as we get reacranted with some old friends and hopefully make some new ones only on the HyperX Podcast Network. Video Deathloop is a show where we watch a short clip on loop until one or both of us can't take it anymore. Each week, one of us picks out a video, the other does not know about to their dismay.

Video game cutscenes, TV show openings, music videos, and occasional horse videos are just some of the clips we've ran and we're five seasons in. Check us out every Friday. So, yeah, this movie filmed in North Carolina, they ended up under budget, supposedly. And one thing I have to remind myself, this film in North Carolina, they ended up under budget, supposedly. And one thing I have to remind myself, this film, is not rated. So when you see that Rosebud Pictures logo, that's completely made up bullshit. That's just a fake production company they made up because De Laurentis's company, they signed a contract with the MPAA saying, you will not release a movie rated higher than R. Like, you must be bound to these rules. And he's like, well, if we submit this movie to the MPAA, they will give it an X rating. So it was never actually submitted to the MPAA. And that probably led to it being playless in theater. and definitely led to being played less on even pay TV, which is why this was a very unseen movie until all of the DVD releases starting in the late 90s.

Like that lack of a rating really held it back from being a known movie. It felt like an underground movie for a while. It was the thing he told friends about. That made it so extra cool for a generation of dorks who are us, yeah. And one of the reasons DeLorentis signed on allowed maybe to make this movie was, the first movie was a huge hit in Italy which spawned ladies gentlemen are we aware of the lacasa

series oh i'm not oh this is fun it's the la casa series is so the this movie uh both evil dead one and evil dead two were so successful italy just sort of started calling things sequels to the evil dead that weren't so it comes out the evil dead and 81 comes out as lacasa evil dead two comes out as lacasa two and 87 but then like La Casa 3 is this movie called Ghost House that comes on in 1988, a really fun Italian horror movie. Then there's La Casa 4, which is a David Hasselhoff movie, which is from 1988. La Casa 5 is some movie called Beyond Darkness, another Italian horror movie. Then La Casa 6 is House 2, the second story.

And then La Casa 7 is House 3. So that's the bizarre and twisted world of the La Casa series, which I am mildly obsessed with. Wow. So any movie that takes place in the house, you could just call Lacasa and release in Italy. Like, Home Alone 2 is La Casa 9. That's, that's amazing. I had, so I did see the, my life was a house, my life as La Casa. Oh, sorry.

The Lake House, it's the time traveling one. Aqua La Cosa. So, yeah, you know, I'd seen some of the, the Fulci zombie movies, the zombie with no E at the end of it. Like, I'd seen a couple of those, which also were sold as like, no, it's the sequel to Day of the Dead. Like, it's another one of those when they just took, like, smashed together of a zombie film filmed in the Philippines with some stuff filmed in Italy. And I love those, but I, yeah, I, that was always also to video store nerds of just like, oh, did you know Italy just makes whatever fucking sequel they feel like and they just exist? No one's getting arrested for this. The Lacasa Mafia.

Yeah. You can do whatever they want. You're going to step to those Italian filmmakers. I don't think so. This movie, though, I mean, it's not rated, and, you know, I don't, I mean, I like some horror movies. I don't like gore. I don't like, quote, unquote, torture porn. I'm not, I don't go in for that.

I just, I don't like it. I don't like cruelty seeing it, like, reveling in it. But if you're squeamish about horror, I say this movie's fine. Like, going into it, the blood looks like Hawaiian punch. Yeah. Everything is just so silly that, I mean, I know there was a stigma against horror. This probably would have had issues being rated R. But when I watch it, I'm like, this.

this is just fun like i've never grossed out it's just like it's just silly like like when ash cuts in the things like nicolodeon gack sprays onto him it just it's all so ridiculous and i say when if things head gets cut off it's it's it's a balloon deflated yeah exactly and if you're afraid to watch this movie because you don't like horror i think this could make the cut i mean it just it's just it's so silly all the time it's yeah that's that's all i can say i don't know if you guys agree with me or not oh yeah yeah this is kind of the perfect movie to show like a 15 year old boy you know what i mean like it's just like exactly so goofy so silly and it's not like oh man is this going to freak somebody out like you need some maturity to kind of get it but at the same

time like it isn't that we're not revel it we are watching ash slowly uh go insane and to henry's point uh obviously ramy is torturing him psychologically to get there but like it is it's fun it's all kind of in good fun i think you know another thing that really sealed together my love Evil Dead 2 was that I watched all of Briscoe County Jr. I loved that show when it aired I was a concurrent viewer with it when they advertised it

during Simpsons I was like oh this looks cool but that was my first introduction to Bruce Campbell and then I was a regular watcher though not like religiously but I'd regularly watch Herculees and Zena and then later I find out like wait wait wait wait this is all the same people like it's all the same production

like it's Robb I think it was when I watched Army of Darkness and saw Rob Tappert's name at the star. I was like, wait, that's the Hercules producer dude I see on everything. Holy shit. I forgot to mention that Ramey spent a lot of the 90s between Quick and the Dead and Simple Plan. He was executive producing Hercules and Zina? Yeah, yeah. Just like basically creating a factory for movies in our TV in Australia. And Bruce Campbell was in that as AOLUS or something?

His AOLUS is a regularly recurring character, though. He didn't get his own series. They did one season of a show that was not interconnected with it, but the second same production. company jack of all yes jack of all trades i think it was yes yeah and it was i think it was new zealand actually um if i'm okay uh man sorry sorry keying yeah i'm just trying to trying to try to stop up tweet um i i do and also uh ted ramy is like the third lead on zina you know it's zina gabriel i think he's jockser or joker or something yeah that's right yeah no that this i will say that making of doc too gave me even more appreciation for ted ramey that i already had like i

I love Ted Ramey in those shows. He is so fucking funny in every Spider-Man movie. Like his scenes with Jameson are the funniest scenes in those movies. And then when I really came to appreciate him and the work he did in makeup in this movie is insane. He went through worse than Bruce Campbell did. Yeah, the torture of being in the Henrietta outfit, apparently the summer they were filming it or the spring. It was 100 degrees outside, which meant it was like 110 degrees inside the unventilated. to gym with Studio Lights.

So the costume was just filling up with sweat, had to be pumped out of him. And there are certain scenes in the movie where you can see, like, just geysers of sweat coming out of the Henrietta costume. And they left them in because they're like, yeah, this is a gross creature. It should be dripping with things. And it is like that same, uh, this will make Sam Ramey selling an asshole, but it is the kind of bullying tendency of like, oh, he's my little brother. I'll fuck with him.

Like, yeah. Absolutely. God, remind you make him fall over again. I don't care. Ted can take it. No, no judge would punish him for that. And, you know, we normally run through the actors in these movies, but we don't have to this time because Bruce Campbell, I mean, they all do an amazing job. I love every performance in this movie. Bruce Campbell was the one guy who kind of made it.

A lot of people in this movie, they went on to do other things. But, like, Annie, who is like the lead female character, she's in one other movie. She is in Chud 2, Bud the Chud. Oh, of course. And the previous We Hate Movies episode, correct? Exactly. at another previous, I mean, it's not exactly a La Casa spin on taking something that isn't yours and running with it, but that's kind of what Bud's the Chud is. It's like, it's got nothing to do with Chud's. It's like, what if it's a zombie movie? We just call it Chuds. It's like, okay, sure. It's sort of like a party zombie film, correct? Oh, yeah, there's an awesome theme song to it. It's stupid, it's stupid city, but you can have fun with it, I think. And, yeah, so the guy who plays, I always forget the character's name, the blonde, like preppy guy, whatever.

Ted or something? It might be Ted. He became like a home shopping network host. Bobby Joe became a start on a soap opera for a while. The guy who plays Jake, he did a ton of character acting work. But that's basically it. I mean, you did not make your mark in Hollywood by being in horror movies. You were given the stigma, which is why I think Bruce Campbell, like, he is doing fine.

I think he's a wealthy, happy man. He's got about 15 autobiographies out there now if you want to read about him. But yeah, he made a transition to TV in the 90s. but, like, he never got the real chance in the spotlight that he deserved. Like, Ramey wanted him for Darkman, I believe. And he tried, Ramey kept trying to shove him into other leading roles, but the studio just said no to Bruce Campbell. So Bruce Campbell will be like the pizza sphere man in the new Dr. Strange movie.

Pizza Papa. There you go. And then he'll be, like, in a bad USA show for nine years. They make a lot of money on her notice. Though I still couldn't bring myself. to watch it. I'm all right. I love Bruce, but I'm good. My one nerd avenue that I always wanted Bruce Campbell

to do, just because he looks so much like the actor, and they never showed, I don't know if you guys are Buffy people, Buffy the Vampire Slayer people. I always kind of wanted him to show up as Xander's dad. Because it would have been a Xander's dad arc starring Bruce Campbell would have brought the fucking house down.

It never happened. That was my fan cast. He would have been perfect. for that guy yeah i agree yeah and i think i mean this is based on i'm i'll drop their name again blank check a great podcast about evil dead too john hodgeman is on it he was uh the literary agent for bruce campbell he got the first bruce campbell autobiography off the ground that's kind of when the renaissance happened and we're we're still living in it yeah i yeah i i remember uh like i i i've been into hodgeman for a long time i heard his mb i for i think the first time i heard him was when he was on NPR talking about selling this book and how he basically was

like an NPR essay of him saying selling the book was really an excuse to hang out with Bruce Campbell and getting to go to conventions with Bruce Campbell and how he had a joke at the end of Bruce Campbell of him saying like okay it's just me and you here you could say one the lines for me right and Bruce is like I knew it I knew that's why you wanted to hang out with me You just want to hear me say the last. Talk directly to the answering machine. Yes. Yeah, I think he had to convince his editors because they were like, well, who is this guy?

And he had to say, you know, people on the internet love him and they want to know more about him. And yeah, like the Renaissance has happened. We're living through it still. And it kind of came full circle because there was that Evil Dead series in 2015. I have not seen an episode. I really want to dig into it. I don't care about the lore of People Dead. I kind of resent the term Deadite, too.

I'm just like, well, no. I like when it's just this undefined evil It makes it scarier So I don't know how much I'm going to get into that But I do want to see more Bruce Campbell And there's a lot of him In three seasons of that stars show Yeah, but it's just on Netflix now

Okay, it's on Netflix but that exists I don't know if either of you have seen the Ash versus the Evil Dead The TV series It's on the shelf that I need to get to You know what I want to? I watched the first season It was really great I should have watched more of it

It was extra funny too Because it was airing at the same time as Stan Against Evil which is also a evil dead type show and I was like how do we go from having I said this at a convention to other interviewers right before we were going to interview

people from standing against evil and I was like how I like this show too but how is it that both these shows are on in the same time when we never had an evil dead anything for like 20 years yeah it's I mean there's lots of I assume not great comics oh yes oh my god

crappy video games that me and my friends suffered through just to hear fucking Ash's talk like to hear Bruce it's like well they hired Bruce I want to hear Ash lines from Bruce here yeah and there was the long rumored you might know about this Steve the the Freddie versus Jason versus

Ash was that a comic or is that a movie I think it was a comic and they were supposed to like maybe maybe we want this to be a movie and it's like well it's never going to happen for whatever of various reasons and the cool thing always is that Bruce Campbell is very available for all this stuff and if anyone ever deserved a

self-referential second act it's it's bruce campbell you know what i mean like make all the money dude like hawk hawk hawk enjoy it i i will say if you're uh at least give the first episode of ash versus evil dead uh a shot and see if you want to stick with the whole thing i i think it's all great but uh or the first season i'm also part of the problem i didn't watch the rest of it yet but the first episode's directed by sam ramy so it basically is evil dead four because he's directing it too. But no, I mean, now he's retired from the role, but, or he says he'll do voices, but he won't do it in live action anymore. And he also was very open about just to have one other crossover with video games.

There was a rumor that he was going to be in Mortal Kombat 11. Oh, okay. And people were like the hackers were digging into it like, boy, that says like Ash EXE file or whatever. And so like last year, he was asked about it and like, hey, weren't you going to be? in Mortal Kombat? And he said, to the effect of, that was the plan. It's what Ed Boone wanted to, but the red tape of who owns what would not allow him to be in a Warner video game, unfortunately.

So it would have been perfect to have Ash in Mortal Kombat 11. I'm very sad it didn't happen. I don't know who owns the rights to Ash. It's complicated. I think it's universal-ish. Well, it's like, because as I recall, in the first season of Ash versus Evil Dead, they couldn't directly reference Army of Darkness because it was

similar, like they could reference Evil Dead two directly in show clips from it, but Army of Darkness was kind of vague. They could be vague about it. And then I believe for season two, they're like, okay, we made the deal, it's fine. We can do Army of Darkness, direct references in it too. That was the same deal to Evil Dead the musical

that they couldn't do direct Army of Darkness references either. It was just adapting one and two. Yeah, I know every movie having its own distributor made things more difficult. Yes, yeah. And then not to jump too far ahead, but there's going to be a new Evil Dead movie on HBO Max, I believe.

Right. Which is, the way they're advertising it is not what I think of when I think of Evil Dead. It's like, oh, you'll never see a more scary movie than this. It's terrifying. And you know, the 2013 Evil Dead reboot, which I hear is fine. It scares me too much. Yeah. Too much of a wuss. It is them making a sincere horror movie

when I think that is not the identity of Evil Dead for me. See, I know. I was supposed to say a lot of people like that movie. That's, again, on that list of things that I should watching but i didn't know that they're they're rebooting on an hbomax i'll give it a shot right right right he's producing it at least yeah but it's not none of your favorites are back unfortunately hey yeah though really i guess we should all watch ash versus evil dead first yes and lucy lawless is in it too they brought her into the mix oh yeah so that's good

Yeah. Yeah, we have some time left. So this is just random chat about the movie because, again, I, I might have some time left. So this is just random chat about the movie because, again, I, I might. mentioned it up front, possibly on Mike, I can't remember, but I was writing down all the set pieces, and I eventually just got exhausted saying, well, there's a new set piece every, every three minutes in this movie. And I was just thinking about the things that don't involve geysers of blood or, you know, elaborate puppets or stop motion. There's one scene in the movie,

and it should be noted that in this movie, a lot of the time, you are, you're seeing the way from the perspective of the creature or what the presence, really. Oftentimes you don't even see the enemy of the movie and there's one scene where there's all in the cabin together and their heads are just darting back and forth as sound effects happen and that is an effective scene it looks like they're watching a tennis match but you don't you don't know what they're seeing yeah and it is still like very very compelling and I thought just like oh this is a guy used to working with no money like let's do weird angles on the characters let's do like 30 setups for all of these shots with these very patient actors and just have them saying look

over there now over there and then just figure it out in the sound editing like what are they seeing in hearing it's it's not shocking that this movie like you said came in under budget because it is so much of it is more about ramey wanting to like happy to have a budget and happy to be able to use it but it is it's like well let's let's figure it out and you know what i mean let's not let's not throw money at the problem let's figure out how to film this creatively and how to make all of this engaging and just wherever the camera is going it's you know whether it's um wind up being a a dead eye view or whatever they want to call it or you know even when uh his hand is possessed one of my favorite little tricks in the movie is when the hand is dragging him uh while he's

passed out and just like just doing that is just so effective as opposed to i don't know again throwing money at the problem you know what i mean yeah and ash was faking him out the whole time too i just love yeah no i you know the editing reminds me of one of my new favorite jokes in it that i uh love now uh because i yeah i pretty much always were pay was paying attention to bruce campbell scenes and the other characters were secondary to me but this was the time where i was paying more attention to him and this close watch of it when they chase bobby joe outside and they're all and they're like stop scream before you're getting attacked him he's like no and he goes bobby joe bobby joe bobby

Bobby Joe, and it's cutting back to the, the viewpoint of the evil. And he goes, Bobby, cut to the viewpoint again. Joe, like just cutting in the middle of him saying Bobby Joe was so fucking funny to be. I just had seen the first movie, and I forget, like, there's not a lot of the zooming camera in this movie. I feel like because there's more tension than the first movie, that camera is always, like, zooming towards the cabin. And this one, they don't do it nearly as much because it's like the presence is there from the very beginning. And, yeah, you're talking about the hand, the hand scene. So at a certain point in the movie, he fights his hand.

And because his dead girlfriend comes back to life. So he cuts her head off of the chainsaw, which happens, of course. And she bites his hand. And there's, I guess, some logic to it. If you get bitten by a deadite or if they attack you, you can turn into one. And this is incidental. But as I'm watching Bruce Campbell swing around a mannequin head and smash into the walls as it makes sound effects. I'm thinking, who could have thought this would be rated X?

This ridiculous scene. But yeah. the whole thing and her whole look is very easy and so even Bruce Campbell when he gets dead-eyed or whatever the hell you want to call it it's very easy comics like you know what I mean stark shadows huge white eyes you know what I mean like over over exaggerated oh my God when he gets I also love in the start when his headless girlfriend comes up to the window and grabs him and just like keeps smashing his head against the wood and it's Bruce Campbell doing all the work as these puppet hands like gently touch him and he's smashing his own face and he's smashing his own face and he's in. But the hand fight is so alive because he's wrestling with his hand and it's just a man pretending his hand is alive. That's the only special effect. And he's fighting it. And he eventually pins it down, cuts it off with the chainsaw. And then he has, it's basically like mouse hunt. It's basically like it turns into a Warner Brothers cartoon to the point where the score is kind of mimicking like Elmer Fudd trying to find Bugs Bunny. What's he just is duct taping over some light gauze? He's like, yep, all fine. Now I have to cut off my hand now to hunt my hand down. And, like, it literally gets caught in a mousetrap in a mouse hole in the wall and gives him the finger and just, uh, his reaction to that finger might be the funniest part of the movie because he's legitimately upset about it. It's just like, how dare you? You know what I mean?

Like, yeah. And when he, and it just his, his laughter and then just the pause and then once he, like, has it up on his shotgun up on his arm and then points it at the wall like, oh, there it is. and then oh god the gusher the gusher of blood like that was the cool thing in evil dead the musical the 40 experience you make it wet you make it wet with kool-aid they use kool-aid for it i didn't have the guts to sit near in the kool-aid splash zone i i should have i should have the guts to do it you know it was the last thing we were doing that night and then we'd had gone straight back to our hotel room in vegas but yeah yeah no i uh me me and i didn't know that Stephen had seen the

Evil Dead the musical as well. Yeah, I saw it and it was playing off-Broadway in the city, God, must have been 2007, maybe, something like that, that might sound right. And it was just, you know, it was a blast. And it was really fun to watch, especially the

they make a lot of hay out of the house goes crazy and is laughing at you see. You know what I mean? Like that is the one thing that I remember very clearly, like the deer head is really moving you know what i mean that that was super fun to watch and i i love that act one and two like are separated by the the the uh the people coming in he's like he's killed that everybody's dead there in the and then in and then it goes intermission like they they just got in there and yeah

it's uh it's it's a lot of fun they even have a tasteful comedic way of doing the tree scene oh so it's a it's a kind of remake of the first movie yeah basically it's like 40% 1 and 60% too Yeah More about the movie I've only seen it like I don't know Six or seven times I have not seen this movie like 30 times or something But even though I know things are coming

I still laugh at them like so Ash gets he cuts off his dead girlfriend's head puts it in a vice and is like okay time to kill this thing Whatever it is opens this this like little curtain And he sees the outline for a chainsaw And then all of a sudden what comes bursting in the headless Body of his ex-girlfriend holding the chainsaw this rickety puppet

and if you think about the logic of this like why is there the chainsaw outline on the wall like that's where I put my chainsaw I'm gonna draw a chalk around it so I don't forget it's just like it's like the biggest visual cheat

to let the viewer know there should be a chainsaw here where is it immediately the door gets kicked in you see the chainsaw it like it is so silly that I always laugh at it you can go even more lunatunes

like I owe you one chainsaw like a little piece of paper it would be the other way to do that joke no i yeah that's uh that and then also it's going the ups and downs of that scene too because campbell is playing it so well of the tortured man who's like not only is my girlfriend dad and i have her head right here and i'm planning to chop it to pieces uh like he's like suffering but then in comes this like silly dummy holding uh that just and then when he knocks the

chainsaw into the stump of the neck and then it just is bouncing off of him over and over again he has to play it so silly and then once he's done with that he's like he has the the deadite head turns back into his regular girlfriend is like please ash don't and got and they has to play it like real of like oh god like and i think the tone and they could oh sorry i think the tone is exactly what it needs to be because if if you tried to go really serious you can't make that scene series you know what i mean like you almost can't uh make that show totally sincere so it's not and the thing is it never The movie never winks at you.

Like, you do feel Ash's pain. But it's just like once the chainsaw hits the stump and the blood is everywhere, like, oh, this is a punchline. This is not exactly harrowing. Yeah, there's a lot of great punchline moments in the movie. And I'm mixing up the set pieces because the plot is very thin. And there are events that matter and it all makes sense. But I'm just thinking of like individual set pieces. Something happens in the movie.

Ash is exhausted. He just overcame some insane thing. He sits down in a chair. It just falls apart. immediately. I think that might precede the laughing room scene, but it's just like, yeah, a great punctuation in the movie. And speaking of like the, the Ramey attitude, he wants to make a fun movie.

And I noticed like where he holds back in this movie where when the chain sawing of his dead girlfriend's body happens, that's in silhouettes. When he has to cut off his own hand, you don't see the chopping happen. You see the, the magenta paint flying up at his scene. face like he could make this as gory as possible but he's like well no it's more fun to see a silhouette of this this horrible thing happening or just to see flex of blood hitting bruce campbell's big teeth yeah i you know you know it's a choice and i i i understand i'm not even saying it's like always bad to do it because you know gore's its own thing but there were certainly

people who uh filmmakers who were influenced by evil dead who maybe thought it was a mistake you didn't see those things of like no we should should see the flesh get rended and everything split apart. Like you should see every second of that, which I don't think you always need to. But then again, those movies aren't for me. There's probably people who do feel like, no, you do have to see the foot get mangled up or whatever, you know. Yeah, I love one in that scene when the blood hits the light source and now everything is totally red. And you know what I mean?

And again, that's sort of like it's punctuating the scene and like how much blood there is, and like how much havoc is being what are you being uh wrecked upon this one dude but it's also you know a really smart lighting decision you know what i mean like could we just switch to red lighting sure but it's kind of cool to watch the the blood splatter on the light bulb you know yeah it's explained why it has to happen and yeah i mean just his also like the ups and downs of that scene how he plays it too of just like he's so sad like his hand's gone like his right hand he's having to cut off his own hand but he also is like

kind of happy he tricked this monster and he's like got you a little sucker who's laughing now who's but as he says in the second time who's laughing now oh god and we're talking about the you know when the blood hits the light ball

but it like masks the the room in red because they're working with sets and not an actual cabin they can be like very surreal and impressionistic with the spaces because if you watch that first movie it's like yeah this is a real ass dirty cabin it's gross I wouldn't want to stay there the basement's yucky too they film a lot in the basement when they're getting their tape recorder

and this one like every room looks like a set in a fun like surreal way like they don't seem like real rooms especially because like as soon as ash the stuff starts happening the boards go up over the windows things nothing is right in any room

and I just feel like because they don't tie down to a real space they can make those fun choices with the sense and the watching that tracking shot of the camera go through the entire cabin chasing ash room after room after room and it's like it's almost like a music video how visually dynamic it is but it doesn't but then there's a narrative you know what i mean so it's like it's like it's like almost like music videos strung together as a movie almost well and yeah and if you're a hardcore you know filmophile and you're just

trying to figure out how the magic trick is done or whatever you know every time it's longer than I remember it because I keep thinking like well this is where the cut would be and it's like no it just keeps going and I mean to the patience of Bruce Campbell to like for all of those setups are like he had to do multiple stop motion things where it's like okay you're the puppet in the stop motion thing Bruce you're just going to stay still while we paint some of your hair white or we draw on your hand to do it yeah and yeah I mean he would have a miserable time on Army of Darkness because he's just fighting things that don't exist so they're came up with like a very complicated number system as to where he's supposed to turn and where he's supposed to like swing his sword and everything like that here he fights like maybe one stop motion thing yes yeah he gets tortured even more in that regard and too i you know too i think in army darkness it too in evil did too something i i love about it as you know to know that sam ramy became the the guy who really pioneered modern superhero movies this follows an arc of a superhero thing too like he is a regular dude who transforms through trauma really to become a ridiculous comic book superhero that but every step of it works so well that you don't think it's ridiculous by the time he has a full on really superhero costume at the end of the movie you're not thinking what a silly thing this is like it it all feels earned on on its way there yeah especially after seeing him getting beat up for i don't know 50 minutes when he and annie craft the uh the the

chainsaw arm and he saws off the shotgun and spins it around and puts it in his little holster back there it's a great movie that's where that's where a groovy comes from yeah that that is one of my all time favorite like scenes in a movie like

every second of it is the greatest like just the quick cuts to every and I love when Sam Ramey does a scene like that and also when there's that in Doc Ox origin it's just the same kind of like fast cuts like and even a chainsaw like but just like slam open door slam uh slam down the the metal work look at the

soldering iron pick it up it looks at her looks at him and he's like okay did it work he turned it on okay off with it let's now make it now that's on my arm now i'm going to change it into a double barrel shot a sawed off shotgun hey it works foo foo foo just oh i wonder how many how many takes that took to get right That's what I think when I see the scene of him being chased

by the camera because like doors are exploding in front of the camera if you make one wrong turn it's going to take forever for setups and I remember on blank check they were talking about

Gene Hackman had zero time for Sam Ramey's setup bullshit because it's like well we need like 30 shots of you twirling your gun from different angles

he's like I'm 64 years old absolutely not we're not doing this Sam so some actors are more patient oh sorry Steve it reminds you Scatman Crothers on The Shining and, like, literally bursting into tears when he did his next movie, which was with Clint Eastwood that, like, just did one take. And he's like, that's it. That's all you want. Not like 2,000 shots of me doing this thing.

I was like, nope, we got it. We're going to move on. Like, yeah, it's it. It is brutal to put an older actor through for sure. And when you're as famous as Gene Hackman, you're like, I just won an Oscar. I don't need this shit. Yes. Yeah. But, though, I'm glad he suffered through all the stuff that makes him so cool. and quick in the dead. But, no, I mean, yeah, that he's, he probably was used to Bruce Campbell. Like, I, I didn't know about the, uh, being it. He was probably used to how Bruce Campbell just like takes it all in stride. I, yeah, I didn't really know the, the suffering, uh, aspect of it until I was watching

Spider-Man 2 and listen to the Spider-Man 2 commentary because Toby McGuire also gets put through the ringer. Oh, sure. In that movie, like, and they, there's the scene where. Peter Parker has to is getting down on his knees to tie his shoe and like three backpacks like smack him in the face and like he says on the commentary, Sam Ramey is two of those backpacks of like because he's like, no, harder. It's a man harder.

And Toby McGuire says, yeah, Bruce Campbell warned me, you were going to torture me. And he was right. He was right. So Toby deserves it. One more thing on Bruce's performance, if we can, the I do love when, towards the end of the movie, when, you know, Annie has become like, oh my God, this guy's the hero. the movie thank god because at first i do love when they think that he's like just a you you would come upon this house to be like oh this guy's a fucking lunatic and probably murdered my parents it all goes through he becomes the hero it's him versus jake etc etc and then lo and behold

he turns back into a dead at the at the exact worst time his performance of balancing that when he picks up the necklace and there is so much shit on his face there's like three inches of shit on this dude's face and it looks great but but But you can see, like, his face contort in the right way to express, like, remorse. It's, it's really, really fascinating that he can get there with that much makeup and that much artifice. Yeah, yeah. He can't, he can't, like, move his face. You don't see his pupils because he's got those white contacts in.

But you can see he's processing all of this and what the necklace means in that scene. And to learn when any actors, pupils are white in the movie that they are blind acting, because that's, the contacts work that's like wow that even adds so much more to it and and yeah you know watching it this time too i really did appreciate annie's character like she is she is very useful she is you know a great second to uh ash like and and she fucks up to you know she stabs that guy yeah oh my god that i just feel so bad for her though that she could have been if she would have lived at the end the movie she could have been in the sequels too and i feel so bad for her that she dies but what a great death because like you've it's so long since you

saw that hand you maybe think like oh did he when he shot the wall that must have killed the hand because we haven't seen the hand in so long and when she just dies and the hands like right there you're like that fucking hands back oh my god it's it's the one of the i know she dies but it's always the twist i forget like oh how does she die oh the hand comes back and yeah uh annie's actress does an amazing job it feels like she was just hired to scream she does a lot of screaming. One of my favorite scenes with her in the movie is when Ash turns a deadite and she's got to press her back against the door.

And he's just like slamming on the door as she holds it back and just is screaming. And it looks like she's about to start laughing because it's such a ridiculous scene. But she does an amazing job. Oh, man. And when, and yeah, also the Henrietta monster, like she's so great and crazy and just like the explosion of her head from the shotgun is like amazing looking to. and just and even that like also in a very reminds me of movies now kind of thing they set up their sequel like they call their shot of the sequel in the middle of the movie

they open the book and like well there's you in the past and so it's like gonna be time travel or a you know a a Yankee and King Arthur's Corps or whatever that yeah it's one of those type of things yeah it's interesting how Ash does not really regard that with much interest like yeah whatever who cares yeah it's me in the past in this old document I don't care I love he says, like, yeah, he's like, I feel like somebody stepped on my grave. Oh, what's that? Whatever, who cares? Yeah, he's, I mean, he's, he's kind of dumb in this movie.

That's why they could flanderize him to such an extent of like, no, he's a moron in the sequel. And, yeah, also, I didn't realize. So I watched Army of Darkness first. Me too. When I got to the end of this movie, I was like, wow, I didn't realize it was such a direct handoff to Army of Darkness at the end of Evil Dead, too. I really wanted to know, uh, what? what it was like to be there at the time,

to have this out of nowhere ending. Were you satisfied? Were you not satisfied? And then how surprised were you to see that they actually made that movie five years later? It is, it's kind of a perfect ending. You know,

even if Army of Darkness never comes out, which we're glad it did because it's great. It's super fun. You know, not as good as this. But I mean, this whole movie is about movement to the next thing. You know what I mean?

And it gets crazier and crazier and crazier and crazier and like, you're never going to outrun this evil. And I mean, I think that's what, there was this thread going around a couple of months ago. I think when Multiverse of Madness came out where somebody had rewatched, drag me to hell and like, you know, that's a perfect movie. And then the ending is just so mean. I can't get over it. It's just, it's too mean to the character. She went through all this stuff.

But that's what this movie is about. And that's what he does. It's about dragging them through the ringer. It's never about, there's, there's, you know, sometimes horror movies can be, can be too nice. where like, oh, the evil is, is, is, is, is, is been vanquished and we are all safe and wasn't that a fun ride. But I think that like, you know, Ramey's, Ramey's view on evil is like, it just keeps coming. You know what I mean?

It's always going to be there. There's always going to be more of it. There's always and, you know, life has proven that, I think, a little bit. Ash as a survivor is his best you're going to get in the same. He's like, well, I, I, I, you know, they're never going to kill me, but I'll always be in a worst place than I was when this started. And I'll just cause, at least face. on Evil Dead 2's opening because he was cheap on a cabin he's like look I found this empty cabin

we can just stay there squat there and and also I noticed this time I always blamed Ash of like Ash Presses play on that thing but his girlfriend does say like oh check it out it play I was like ah it's not kind of her fault you know it's it's Eve telling him to bite the apple he's a victim of circumstance yeah I mean if you were shocked by the end of drag me to hell or surprised by it I guess you didn't know about his other movies because like every evil dead movie ends with Ash getting screwed. Like Evil Dead One, he seemingly wins but then the presence like enters his body

and that's the end of the movie, the last shot. Evil Dead 2, we just talked about it. He ends up in the 1300s as this like conquering hero. And then I just saw the cut ending of Army of Darkness this year. I never saw it before and he doesn't listen to the wizard as to how many drops he's supposed

to take of the sleeping potion. He takes too many when he wakes up. He slept for too long. He is in like... He is in this like terrible future and that could have been if that movie was successful, the fourth Army of Darkness movie like, or Ash in the future, what's that like? Yeah, and

instead they made it in Ash versus Evil Dead, it's present day again, but it's him and the, with the, you know, and the he's also the, uh, S-Mart S-Mart. Yeah, shop S-Mart. Yeah, I see. But I knew that one is like the Japanese laser disending because that's how friends shared it would be like, dude, I found online, I downloaded

it off because ah, it's the Japanese laser disending. Let's finally watch it because I don't read about it on websites as well as when you can just stream any video you want at any time ever. Yeah. But yeah, it was just a theme for Sam Ramey. Like you're the hero of the movie like maybe you just can't really win in the end.

Yeah, that's why I love that Peter Parker suffers so much. Like it's, I mean, I think Sam Ramey really gets what I love about Spider-Man too, or at least his version of Peter Parker as Spider-Man is my Spider-Man. Like, you can never make it work. Like he grew up on those

Stanley and Steve Dicko comics where at the end of the issue Spider-Man would Peter Parker would just be looking at his shoes like why can't I make this work like I've got all this power like I why does it always feel like I

and that extends to Ash too like nothing ever works out for Ash he's in a worst place and and you know I guess spoilers if you haven't seen the Dr. Strange 2 yet but like that was what I love at the end of Dr. Strange 2

he's showing like happy walk down the street and like no he's fucked at the end ah like I forgot about that Yeah, he like screams this guy. He's like, great. Sam Ramey, he's playing the hits. Exactly. And it's hits I want to hear. Now you are deformed and you have this bizarre third eye.

And also to me, Henry, my favorite Spider-Man is a Spider-Man that has sunglasses that gives him technology to wipe out an entire village using NSA technology. That's my, that's a Spider-Man I grew up with. That's the one Spider-Man everybody loves, right, everybody? Yeah, Peter needs to inherit a drone army from the richest man on Earth. Like that, I mean, that's Peter Parker, really. I thought Spider-Man now is about how fun it is to hang out with other Spider-Men from the past. Yes, yeah. Look, I'm hoping, this is a whole other story, but I'm hoping we get some back-to-basic spidey after, you know.

And I love Spider-Verse, too. I can't wait to see that. But that also is like Spider-Man everywhere, just like every single Spider-Man. I'm like, how about we just have Spider-Man stop a bank robbery? One villain, maybe two villains. How about that? But, yeah, we can remember. wrap up now. But yeah, again, we've just been gushing

about this movie. It's a movie with lots of gushing in it. But it's really, really good. And again, if you don't like horror, I say give it a try. It's really silly. And just seeing Bruce Campbell in his best performance is worth the entry price alone. Any other final thoughts on this

before we wrap up? Oh, I mean, I think video games do owe Evil Dead 2. And Sam Ramey in general, like a great debt. Yes. Very, very popular in Japan. Yeah. And hugely influential in ways are too vast to even talk about on one podcast. Yeah, and I mean, two of the American developers,

like every American developer making like a scary video game now of just like cabin games or just, you know, any horror game, like up to even recently that the new, that new horror game, like Ted Ramey's in that with David Arcad. Oh, I've been meaning to play it. I am thinking of the quarry. The quarry is the name of the game. And I thought of it very quickly, listeners.

They didn't cut out anything of me searching for. It's been 20 minutes. 20 minutes be. But yeah, there's, and I love whenever there's Ash or Evil Dead references in stuff. If you ever see somebody with a chainsaw hand like that in anything, that is because Ash did it. He did it first. Any final thoughts, Steve? This movie is just a fucking powerhouse.

Honestly, like again, like I said, I've been watching a lot of stuff. I'm wrapping up some stuff before we take a little bit of a vacation from recording. And I was like, I'll watch Evil Day. dead two and then i'm like holy shit i'm watching evil dead two like it's just impossible to not kind of get caught up on it and like you know it is a snowball it just sort of it moves a little slowly a little slowly at first but once it gets any momentum it never stops which is you know in terms of a horror comedy kind of perfect because it just keeps moving and moving and moving you know the the rest of the cast shows up at the exact right time but does not slow the movie

down whatsoever everybody kind of catches up in this ever of evolving shitty situation that Bruce Campbell finds himself in. It's a pure delight to watch. If you haven't seen it, please do you. And under 90 minutes. Oh, man, it just flies by. I was like, wait, yeah, when I put in my 4K, 4K Blu-ray, and I just saw the timer on it.

I was like, wow, it really is that short. And these are like not brief credits either, even though there's not a ton of people worked out of the movie. More short movies, I say. But thank you so much for being on the show, Steve, as our first time guest. you're on we hate movies of course I'm a huge fan of we hate movies and I must say

I love your regular episodes but Melro 210 is appointment listening for my wife and I and we actually watch the episodes ahead of time as well so thank you for bringing that into our lives Arnail are you do you not watch it outside of the show

because I would get tempted if I obviously we're once a month and we'll never get to season four or something like that have you been blowing through stuff or do you do wait I'll call her out She has, but I think it's only because I bought her the DVDs to get her started, and she couldn't stop watching. So I'm abstaining from watching ahead. That's why every one I watch, I'm savoring.

Every Billy performance. We love it. Yeah, we hate movies, WHMpodcast.com, a ton of content. We like these guys, try our hand at the Patreon game. We offer you a lot of content there. We're doing a lot of live episodes in August. We have brand new content on the Patreon. feed including a we love movies episode on robocop which i'm really excited about oh boy

man i i can't wait to listen to that i i just listened to your glee plot your most recent glee glossary which also is a ton of fun yeah thank you very much you guys you guys do so many awesome things on that and yeah i mean we me and bob uh were honored to be on the simpson's movie episode you guys and we'll have you guys back on definitely this year for sure has to happen who looking forward to it yeah So, Henry, how about you? Where can we find you? Oh, well, you know, listeners by now they should know, but me and Bob also do a lot of podcasts together as part of the Talking Simpsons Network of podcast, which includes What a Cartoon podcast as well, where me and Bob go through every episode of The Simpsons in chronological order. We're in season 13 slash three right now, and we're having a great time with both those flavors of Simpsons.

And also on the What a Cartoon podcast, once a month we go through an animated series, super duper in depth. And, of course, on our Patreon, we go once a month in it to. King of the Hill and Futurama. You can only hear those if you're a $5.00 and up subscriber of patreon.com slash Talking Simpsons. And if you're at the premium level, once a month you get a super duper in-depth podcast, often over five hours long about an animated feature film.

If you like to hear me and Bob talk about movies in this regard, I bet you'll love hearing us talk about. Reason ones like Rescuers Down Under, Beauty and the Beast, The Little Mermaid, but we also do some darker stuff like South Park Baker Longer in Uncut and Coasting the show. Oh, that's another of our favorite. So, so many over four years of them there, check it out.

Also, if you loved all my Spider-Man talk, we did Spider-Man into Spider-verse and tons of other stuff. So please check it all out of Patreon.com slash Talking Simpsons and Talking Simpsons and what a cartoon podcast, wherever you find podcasts. And of course, I am H-E-N-E-R-E-Y-G on Twitter. And of course, this has been Retronauts. Thanks for listening. If you want to support the show, please go to patreon.com slash Retronauts. If you sign up there for five bucks a month, you get every episode one week at a time and at free. and also access to two full-length bonus episodes every month.

We've been doing this for about two and a half years now, so if you have not been on the $5 level, you're missing a lot of great content, only available at patreon.com slash retronauts. That's it for us this week. We'll see you again very soon for another episode. Take care. I'm going to be able to be.

I'm going to be able to be. We're going to be.