Retronauts - Retronauts Episode 67: Listener Mail 2016

Episode Date: June 6, 2016

Due to our erratic Retronauts recording schedule--a whole bunch of podcasts every three to four months--it's a lot harder than it used to be to respond to our fans in a timely manner. That's why, once per year, we sit down and pore over a selection of the best listener letters for the sake of a freewheeling, 90-minute discussion. On this episode of Retronauts, join Bob Mackey, Ray Barnholt, Mikel Reparaz, and Chris Kohler as the crew tackles important issues, like the state of gaming preservation and their respective waifus. Be sure to visit our blog at Retronauts.com, and check out our partner site, USgamer, for more great stuff. And if you'd like to send a few bucks our way, head on over to our Patreon page!

This week on Retronauts. Ladders, we get ladders, we get snacks and snacks of ladders. Hello everybody. Welcome to Retronauts. Another fun episode. I'm your host, Bob Mackie. And today we're going to be reading your letters. Letters from listeners. That's our topic. Before I start with our letters. Who else is here today? Michael Roparas. Awesome. And Chris Kohler. And who else? Also Ray Barnhol. And these guys have all been on Retronauts before. I think I went through your guys too fast. Michael, what are you doing? What do you do? And who are you? Oh, people might have heard my voice on Vigame Apocalypse, my weekly podcast that I do on the Lasertime Network. That's great. I also work for a Ubi blog. Chris, where can we find you?

You can find me at Wired.com, because I work for Wired, writing about video games. Yeah, are you celebrating your, like, 15th year there, something crazy? That is, you are not far off. If we go back to the first article that ever appeared by me in Wired, it was 2002, and it was a review of The Legend of Zelda, The Wind Waker. And I said that it was great. We need to figure out Chris Kohler's secret. He's the only person who's held into a game's journalism job for more than a decade. It's, uh, yeah.

I bet the secret is talent. I'm the cockroach of wire. Can't get rid of me. And, uh, you've got pictures in other words, right? Yeah, exactly. Okay, I thought so. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And Ray, of course, uh, former, uh, regular now just a guess, which is fine, but, uh,

perfectly fine. Yes, exactly. No problem with that. No, no, no. Nope. And, uh, you do scrolled out VG or you did it and it's still available. It's still great. And that was a great episode, guys.

Thanks so much for coming in. Yeah, it was good. It turns out we didn't get any letters at all. No, but you know what? It was fun still. Now, see, I was so excited to get to letters. I skipped over who you were, but the letters are going to be great. Again, once a year we allow you to talk to us, and by that it's very one-sided.

You write into us. We might make fun of you. We might not. It's a bad idea all around. Exactly. But we have so much fun on these episodes. And it's part charity, part laziness. The charity is like, we'll talk to you.

We'll say your name. We'll read your letter. The laziness is like, you know, I spend six to eight hours. researching for every episode, unlike what some complainers might think. And if you guys have gotten my notes before, you know they're roughly three to 4,000 words of just complete like meticulousness and annoying

fastidiousness and just every possible angle covered. He went to college. Yes, exactly. I know how to be, I'm professionally anal. That sounded weird. Yes. I'm professionally fastidious, why not? Let's go back to that word. I'm more comfortable with fastidious. So yeah, again, I like to hear what you have to say, and you

all wrote in some great questions. And we normally do like a roundup of virtual console stuff that came out in the previous year. And there's a lot of good stuff enough to round out half an hour. But there were some complaints on the last one. And I totally agree. Like if this is a listener mail episode, we should focus on the actual listener mail. I want to read as many of these as possible. And we have so many great letters to read. And let's get started with a letter from our friend Chad. And he writes in to say, what game is or was your holy grail of retro games? Thanks to my blunder, my brothers and I have a number of of classic NES and S&S games. We are constantly searching for as adults, but my own personal journey is to re-obtain Metal Storm without having to sell most of my internal organs. That's from Chad.

Chris looks ready to answer this question. Chad, put a dollar into a piggy bank every day for two months and you can go buy Metal Storm. What is the price? So it's $60? Yeah, just about. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then you'll have the Holy Grail and you'll be one up on Indiana Jones. As for me,

but as long as you don't like turn to a skeleton, Is that a possibility? That, no, not if you play Metal Star. Okay, cool. Right, right. If you play Metal Max, you will. Yes. Okay, I thought so.

As for me, this is a disappointing answer. I'm sorry, but I'm not a collector anymore. I just have such small living space and I'm used to just being on the move and on the go because of my criminal past. No, just because of the nature of being employed writing about video games. So my Holy Grails are things I've hung on to, like a complete boxed earthbound from the day was released. Like, that is something I will never get rid of. And that is still like a very sought-after item for a lot of other people. So I think I have one of the Holy Grails of game collecting.

Michael, how about you? Mine's always kind of been Fosselae, the UK version. When the NeoGeo Pocket went under, there was a about to release a game called Fossalae, which was like a giant robot, JRP, and it was unique for having, like, voice samples encoded into the cartridge. Like, I don't think that was a feature in other NeoGeo Pocket games. came out in the UK around the same time the system was recalled pretty much worldwide and copies of that go on eBay

for between $200 and $300 I think I saw one today for like $375 So if you follow Chris's advice you need about a year of that piggy bank action in order to get it But then I should say also I've come to realize I'm less of a video game collector and more of a video game hoarder

so it's kind of a question of would I actually play this if I ever got my hands on it? Probably not. That's true for me, too. I'm glad digital sales have turned my hoarding into something that can sweep under the rug. Ray, how about you? Put it on a hard drive.

Yes, exactly. We can forget about it there. That is where I put all my video games on my rug. I have digital cat skeletons on my hard drive, just to be a true hoarder. Oh, boy. You know, I think I get too caught up in that term, Holy Grail, because I start to think about things that, you know, I really always really wanted. But, like... It's been defined down over the years to the point where I saw that somebody's Holy Grail was like a copy of Contra on the NES.

Yeah. Wow, really? Yeah. Yeah, exactly. It's funny because, like, it should be contra-forced. That's the real expensive one. I sold a few what would maybe be Holy Grails,

but not really like Christmas nights. I had a copy of that. I sold it for a few hundred dollars before I moved to California just to fund my move. And I'm sorry, Ray. No, I have Christmas nights. I have a bunch of games that, you know, I already seeked out and did not, you know,

pay out the nose for anything. So I think... You sold Christmas nights for a few hundred dollars? It was, uh, it was not... I think so, yeah. Holy cow. I think so. Was it ever worth that much?

Would the U.S. version? No. Well, then someone bought it for that much. Holy cow. Yeah. I remember I bought like a Japanese version over there for like $3. Right. Right.

But I think the U.S. version is much rarer. Yeah. It is much rarer, but it's, I don't think it was ever a multiple hundred dollars. Yeah. It was maybe like $200, but someone paid that much for it. Wow. It was like a case of ignorance plus eBay equals profit for me. Yeah.

So, yeah. All right. Well, for me, I think it's a money. more about hardware, really. There's still some old 90s systems I fetishize, like the Marty and things. I just kind of like the designs of those things. I would kind of like to have them. You're the only person I know who has an FM Towns

Marty T-shirt, and I appreciate that. I didn't even know there was a mascot, does he have a name? I would assume Marty. I would hope so. I'd be mad if it wasn't. Yeah, I don't know, exactly. But yeah, I mean, it's not like those it's like I want a Marty game. It's just like, I kind of like the design of that system

takes me back to that early 90s period, and yeah. They just want to put it on a shelf. Yeah, well, not even that. It's like, that's the, that's the conundrum. That's the second part. It's like, what do I really do with it? Where do I put it?

I just don't want to put it in a white box if I covet it that much. That is going to be the problem in, you know, the years to come. It's like the games are going to survive, but the hardware is, not just FMTowns Marty, but everything. The hardware is dying. You know, capacitors are leaking and destroying. Your Zelda games are burning you with acid. Yeah, it's going to be much, much more difficult to find working hard. Hardware.

Yeah, my childhood Super N. Yes, died. Right. Video was fried. Did you bury in the backyard? No, not yet. Don't have the strength for it yet. I'm so sad. You're still mourning.

You take off that black armband now, right? It's safe. And again, like, all my Holy Grails are, like, just very deeply personal things that might not be worth a lot. Like, I'm not the kind of games journalist that gets things signed. I just, I find it a little embarrassing just to go through that process with somebody. But I do, my one thing I have that I love and I keep on a shelf is Maniac Mansion, the Cart, signed by Ron Gilbert and Tim Shave. Like, that was something like, oh, this is my favorite version of this game.

They might not be Ron Gilbert's, but he was like, okay, yeah, I'll sign it. And Tim Schaefer was happy to sign, and it was his first LucasArts game he worked on as a debugger or a scum guy or whatever. So, yeah, I mean, for me, it's all about, is this meaningful to me? I don't care if it's worth money. I just wanted to reflect my, like, ego in my apartment. Right. I wanted to reflect my existence in the universe, as we all do, I think. I have no shame whatsoever, so I will get everything and everything signed.

I need to lose my guilt, Chris. It's the problem. I need to drop my shame and guilt, but I can't. I only really did that once, and it was, went to an Assassin's Creed 3 preview event, and I was, like, really, really hyped on the game. And they had sent out these cloth flags to games journalists that were nicer than the flags that came with the collectors.

They're nicer than the American flag itself. Yes, they are. They're beautifully handmade, and they have the Assassin Insignia. And so I went around and, like, got that signed by as many members of the dev team as I could find there. The problem is I got them all to sign it in the ballpoint. So you can't really see it. Oh, no.

Yeah. Yeah, my first, the first thing I got signed by, by Miyamoto, I bought like a gold sharpie kind of pen in Japan. And it is, it's almost totally faded now. Yeah, it was cracking. Oh, well. I think that shame comes from Catholic school, Chris, not that I'm thinking about it. So don't send your child to Catholic school. I'm serious.

Then you'll get so many more autographs in the future. Jason X writes, why am I in space? I'm Jason. This makes no sense whatsoever. I'm just kidding. I mean, his screen name is Jason X. I had to make that joke. It was hilarious, as you can tell, from the reactions to the guests in the room. I don't get it, yeah. Jason X was the, Jason X was the. Jason X was the, I don't get it, yeah. Jason X was the, you know. Jason X was the, 10th Jason movie where he was in space. Oh. Yes. Did no one know that but me? I did. I did.

I fake laughed. Yeah. See, at least fake laughter helps me with my life. So Jason X writes, what are the top 10 games? Let's make this top one game. Yeah.

What is the top game you each wish you had played but just haven't gotten around to yet? Also, please confirm for historical record that Legend of Dragoon is the worst JRP of all time. That's Jason X. As someone who is not an authority,

I don't like Legend of Dragoon. Let's get to that first. What is our Legend of Dragoon consensus, so we can officially put it down in the Retronaut's Book of Blood. I wish Nick Maragos was here, and he could tell you all about Legend of Dragos. He wrote the GIA's Zero Star Review of that game. And I think still gets hate mail for it. Yeah, so...

New people find it. That's still online, right? It has to still be online somewhere. Look up Nick Marigos, Legend of Dragoon, and you'll find the best review. Michael, what do you think of Legend of Rago? I've never played it, but my boss at Games Radar, Eric Bratcher, was... He absolutely loved it and would take any opportunity to take any opportunity to talk it up. So, uh, I think, you know, there's probably some merit there. Hmm. And Ray.

I, I, I heated Nick's words and have not touched it. Yeah. Nick warned me away. I'm only going based on what people tell me that I, people I trust, really. Yeah. But I mean, the, the battle system is, uh, made by the same guys. I think it's directed by the guy who designed Super Mario RPG's battle system. So they're starting with some talent there. I don't know how that made up for the rest of the game. But yeah, from what I hear, not so great. And, uh, that's the official retronaut's word. We're kind of ambiguous. There we go. But in terms of top games which we played. I've gone over this a lot on past episodes, but just a lot of games that have

been fan-translated, like Ace Attorney Investigations 2, and a ton of JRPGs that have been translated, and Wonder Project J and Famicom Detective Club, the remake for Super Famicom. Like, those translations are things that have been in existence, and I feel bad that I haven't

played them, but again, like, I have to wait until I'm unemployed before I get to those games. I played through police knots finally, and marvelous when I was unemployed, so someone fire me so I can play through these games. Don't do that. Nobody do that. Anybody else? What's your top?

Like, I need to play through this game. I played, I have played so far like five hours of Terranigma. Oh, yeah, me too. Which is totally my jam. I love it. And that, yeah, if I ever get some more time, I'm going to put some more time into that

because I'd love to play through the whole thing. Man, so many. Saken Densetsu 3 is one I'd really like to play. Oh, yeah, I did that in high school, so I'm covered. Oh, nice. Good for you. Earthbound, I actually never played. Oh, my God.

just talk about her found. That's your, that's definitely the top of your stack of shame at this point. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, you can do 20 hours, right? Dracula X Rondo of Blood, that's another one. Even though I have it on Wii, and I've played it for like five minutes. I've just never taken the time to get into it. Yeah.

So, Ray, what else? What do you have? I'd say, well, I haven't gotten around this one yet, because it's not out, which is the remake of the Silver Case. Oh, yeah, I just heard about that today. Which is like Grasshopper's first game. Is that anything like Fire Sun? and flower sun moves.

Yeah. It is kind of a prequel, spiritual prequel type thing. But it is more of a straightforward adventure game with menus and stuff. Okay, cool. What was it originally published on? PS1. PS1. Yeah, okay.

Silver G. Kenton. So they're remaking it. They're going to do it in English through playism. Oh, that's great. Yeah. Going to be on PC at least. And, yeah, that should be great. So hopefully we answer your question, Jason X, and leave those kids alone.

That's what I say. Rob writes to say, what did you guys think of framers? Cepaldi's GDC talk about emulation. Is that available to the public to watch? Yes, it is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's free. So please take an hour, pause the podcast and watch that and come back. Hi, welcome back. Did you ever think we'll see

a situation where piracy is not the only way to truly preserve classic games? I think, Rob, I think we're living that future. I mean, in many cases, a classic is not going to see the light of day again unless it's deemed profitable or at least potentially profitable, I think. And

I think restoration and preservation has always been a non-profit prospect for the most part. Would you guys agree with me about that in terms of like saving and restoring the past? There's not a lot of money in that for people. Like the incentive in terms of profit is very small. Well, if anything, it's a long-tail business. I mean, you kind of have to take everything that you have, you know, hundreds upon hundreds of games, everything you get the rights to and sort of and make them all available again. And, you know, the example that Frank used was Uncle Buck, the movie Uncle Buck.

from 1988 or 89. And, I mean, it's like, yeah, it's not like there's, like, this huge group of, like, Uncle Buck fan boys out there. Chris, I'm a Buckhead. Buckys, I think they're all. Yeah, we're for Buckies. It's not that there is a huge group of people who go out there, but it's like it is affordable to keep Uncle Buck in print. It's on every streaming service. It's on every, it's on Blu-ray, it's on DVD, because they take every movie, and they keep them all in print,

and they sell a little bit of every movie, and it makes sense to just, have all this stuff out there. With video games, it's not long tail, it's very short head. It's like, oh, well, we're going to do, you know, Earthbound and we're going to do Super Mario World, but anything that's less popular than that, like, doesn't come back. But Frank's real point, and oh, by the way, yeah, what do I think of it? It's amazing. It was a great talk by Frank, who was, you know, a friend of the show.

He's a very good friend of mine, so very biased. It was the best GDC talk ever. It was very important, I think, for anybody who was there to learn about it. this because what I really didn't understand about video game development is that emulation is kind of a dirty word with video game developers and publishers right now.

If you go and suggest to, like, Capcom, like, oh, let's emulate, let's emulate your games. They're like, that's illegal. It's illegal to emulate NES games. And it's like, no, it's not illegal. It's illegal to, like, download ROMs you don't own, but it's not illegal to emulate NES on PlayStation. I have heard, though,

maybe you know something about this, Chris, or maybe Michael Ray can chime in. We've only seen emulations of NES games and S-NES games on other platforms because of like a certain reverse engineering process that's happened, or is that just completely made up? Like, there's something,

they had to develop the technology to get around patents that were Nintendo's or something. I have no idea what I'm saying, but this is what I've been told. Like we're only seeing like the rare collection with NES games because they develop the process to reverse engineer the game program and make it run in a different language

or a different way that's not copyrighted by Nintendo. Right. Is that true? I don't know how the NES stuff on Rare Replay works. Certainly, Frank talked about how the Mega Man Legacy collection of which he was the producer, they're not, when you play it, it's not emulating. What they actually did was, and I'm going to ruin this, I'm sure, but they basically figured out a way to emulate the games and then recode them in C,

like by emulating them. But then the actual code, as it exists on, like, the, you know, the Xbox one or the PlayStation 4 is, there's no emulation going on there. Okay. But again, but the thing is, that was a baloney workaround that they had to do, not because there was anything illegal or illicit about emulation, but because, you know, basically Capcom was like, we don't want emulation because that, we don't want to get into that.

And Frank's point was, it's fine to emulate things. It's actually been decided in court And it is legal to use emulators And all an emulator is, I mean, Frank's analogy was It's a video codec A video codec is a film strip emulator That's like a rapper, that's all it is Exactly

What do you guys think about this? This issue of piracy being the solution to preservation Well, we haven't talked about it I think even last letter show We were going over that stuff And I think, you know I don't like the whole equivalency to piracy all the time.

I mean, if you collect something and you keep it stored away, like even if it's a record, is that you're pirating the record? I don't think so.

So I think, you know, it's, I just don't like going to that. It's also extremely dicey, like when something is not legally available

or is not openly available, like even if you're tracking down a cartridge or something, like, in terms of the developer, seeing that money, it's exactly the same. Whether you buy the cartridge or you download it from some website

because none of that money is going back to them ever. Exactly. I think in the case where emulation, you're emulating a game that is not available and will never be available. Like, let's say I want to play Disney's Tailspin for the NES. No one will ever publish that game again or republish it, I'm pretty

sure. If I download from the internet, like what better would it be if I spent $100 to some collector? you know, giving him that money. Like, the people who made the game are not going to see any of that. I mean, it's a formality

just the fact that you're giving someone money for. But I think as long as you're not hurting anyone, as long as you're not literally stealing something that's already available, you're good. Like, feel free to do it. I don't like the linking of piracy and preserve as opposed to piracy and play because there are people who will just, you know,

download any, you know, the five ROMs that they want for whatever games that they remember and just put that on their Android device and not worry about it. But then there's people who actually do, you know, collect all this stuff and keep it around. may actually

curate it, write about it, you know, actually treat it, you know, as the historical items that they are. Well,

we've learned, you know, we've learned so much about these games from people emulating them. You know what I mean? I mean, that's true,

yeah. There's so much great writing and, you know, videos like exploring the designs of classic games. But if all the people who would have written those articles or,

or, you know, shot those videos, if they had to go and buy the rare video game cartridge and then, you know, put it into an NES and then get, you know, something to hook up the NES so they can capture video of it, da, da, da, da, da, da, da. Like, none of that would have happened. I think it's very,

I think it's just really important for people to go out there and pirate stuff that's not available. I mean, I was so lucky, and you're around my age, Chris, and so is Ray, that, like, my high school summers coincided with the rise of emulation. So it was like, I'm going to play every NES game this summer. Even if it's five minutes of each one, I'm going to learn about every one, every Game Boy game, every Genesis game. Like, every system I didn't own. And that's kind of why I got into retro games and class. of games just because I had instant access to all of them. And I could look at the

graphic tables and see how that worked and I could play Japanese sequels to things I didn't know had Japanese sequels. Yeah, to be able to look at the library of something as a holistic whole, you know what I mean? And have every NES game that was ever made to truly understand

the system. Yeah. So we're going to move on to our next letter. James writes him to say, are there any genres that you put a lot of effort trying to get into but ultimately decided it just weren't for you and that's from James

and I will say really quickly RTSs, I think Pickman is the only RTS I like I just don't like RTSs I don't like the anxiety of of having to think on the fly like that I really like building bases and RTSs I really like building the actual barracks and you know tank factories and stuff like that

it's probably why I don't, and when I play the Sims I just like building the house but in terms of that step after that I just can't get into it How about you, Michael? Do you have a genre that you want to get into, but you can't do it? Well, racing sims is something I did try to get into because, you know, especially way back in the days of the PS1, everybody went on and on about how great Grand Turismo was. And I tried playing it and I just couldn't get into it.

And every time I play like one of these very serious, realistic racing sims, like it's just like, well, this is a beautiful backdrop. And I just feel like I'm here's a yellow line around. this curve that's coming up that I have to steer into and I don't really understand it. I don't appreciate it. I don't like that I have to start out with a crappy car that doesn't give me much control and it's just, I've played these games

a few times and they've just kind of fizzled in my brain. I had that grand truism problem too. I really wanted to like it, but all those trials are like, now shave three tons of a second off of this. I'm like, I can't do any better. Ray, how about you? Any genres that you would like to get into, but just can't?

Not that I dislike these games. It's quite the opposite, but I wish I could play horse racing sims better. I mean, we all do, right? Right, right, of course. Derby stallion could win a lot of money. Yes, exactly. Because, you know, I used to love the horse betting mini game in Mystical Ninja, the first Goimmon game for Super Nias.

And I think that just sort of sparked the sort of interest in it. And so I keep an eye on those sorts of games. I wrote about, like, Jockey's Road, which was a Japanese Xbox game. I think I read those. Yeah. And so I think it's more of a point It's just trying to find the one game That I need and don't have to play anything else

Basically I think that might be I don't know they CoA released one called Champion Jockey A few years ago on PS3 and stuff Maybe that's just the one I only need to worry about Same way with the other KoA games Like Dynasty Warriors

Like What's the one I just need for the rest of my life? Maybe you can mix the horse racing game With the Dynasty Warriors game To make like a Yeah that'll happen soon It has to, right? How about you, Chris?

Any kind of genres that you want to get into, but you're just resistant to them? You know, I just never got into, like, strategy role-playing games. Okay. I bought Final Fantasy Tactics when it first came out, because I really never played anything that was like that before, and really tried my best and just absolutely could not get into it. And then, you know, any later attempts to get me into strategy games at all have just failed miserably. and I've tried my whole life

and eventually it was just like I need to stop trying. There are a lot of bad strategy RPGs, but they're not for everybody. I'll totally agree with that. Right, right. So we have another letter, and Scott writes,

what are some of the games that you wish had versions available for modern consoles? I understand that convincing Konami to put Snatcher and Police Knots out is futile, but I would love to see Sega put out Panzer Dragoon saga in Skies of Arcata on a platform that doesn't look like ass

on a modern TV, and it's from Scott. Well, Scott, I've complained about this for the past, I don't know, five years I've been doing retronauts, but personally, I think the fact that we have not received Yoshi's Island, the true Yoshi's Island, not the bad, I'm saying right now, it's a bad port

for the Game Boy Advance. That's available on the Wii Virtual Console, not the amazing S&ES game. And if I had to guess, I'm guessing it's a patent issue with something they used in the Super FX 2 chip. That's just my conjecture. I'm not saying that's true, but I think... Well, there's no

Super FX games available in virtual console. Yes, so it might have something to do with And it's like, well, what if the Wii you can't emulate? It's like, listen, I was emulating. Sorry, I'm making a straw man for this argument. Because I've heard it plenty of times. Like, listen, buddy. 1999, 2000, on my Pentium 300, I was running Yoshi's Island at 60 frames per second with all the effects running.

Like, I was doing this 15 years ago. If a console today can't do it, my Android tablet can do it for some reason. That's older than the Wii U. Like, they can do it, but it has to be some issue that we will never know about, probably. That Yoshi's Island is my ultimate choice. Like, the fact that that game is not available, it's such a beautiful expression of platforming that I feel like we're being robbed as a society and as human beings. I rest my case. Somebody else, talk.

What else do we have? I feel like, you know, I want to echo Panzer-Dgren saga and say that I think that Saturn games in general have gotten really short shrift. Like I haven't really seen them pop up on anything. And, you know, there are a bunch of games from that area that I'd love to play again. Last Bronx, any of the other Panzer Dragoons, fighting vipers. Yeah, one thing we didn't mention in the preservation question is the fact that video games, like early cinema, it was made to be disposable. It was not made for future consumers. It was like, throughout the source code, here comes the new game, throughout the original discs, or put them in your garage and have them die in a fire.

I mean, like, that is one of the reasons why Saturn games, too. I mean, source code control was nothing in the late 90s, and it wasn't even a thing in a lot of studios until fairly recent. recently. So I think a lot of the reason is they just can't get those games working again in terms of rebuilding them. Sorry, Chris. Geez, something that I'd just not. I mean, you know, a lot of stuff

is available through emulation. A lot of stuff is available in fan translation. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, it would be nice if somebody got like laser active emulation because, of course, you can't emulate

the laser active because it's literally like video on laser discs that plays. It's like you can't emulate a VHS tape, right? They'd have to go Action Max games gone forever. Right, right, right. It would be really cool to be able to play the laser active stuff without literally having to

boot up a laser active. Not that any of those games are any good. In terms of a more realistic one, where the heck is Square NX on the US WiiU virtual console? Because like the games are out in Japan. They didn't come out here yet on

Wii U, I just want to play Secret of Mata on my freaking game pad, which would be beautiful. Where is it? Or Chrono Trigger or Final Fantasy 3, Final Fantasy 2, but I mean 4 and 6, of course. There's so much playtime I could have with the Wii U playing these games

on virtual console. And what is even going on? That game pad was built for those kind of experience. Like I'm going to have my TV on and Final Fantasy 3 or Chrono Trigger or Secret of Mana on my game pad. I just did earthbound exactly like that. It was fantastic. How about you, Ray? Maybe everyone at Square is busy animating rocks

and Fon Fancy 15. Yes, I said animating rocks. Is that a new summon? Cobblestones. We'll see, we'll see. Let's see. I think, yeah, tied into that whole emulation stuff, it's like, there are all other things that, you know,

I could play right now, for example, Panzer-Dragon Saga does not run super terribly in an emulator right now. And I think, you know, that's easy for me. I think it is things that came a little bit after that, like the original Xbox, like there's, there's emulator work being done on that, but it's still nowhere near to a point where it's going to get

super playable in the near future. It is funny, you say that because when I tried to play, I was playing the early Halo games maybe in 2012 just to see what they were like because I never experienced them, and I was like, why does Halo 2 have emulation issues on the Xbox 360? Isn't Halo 2 like one of the biggest games

on that platform, but it was still like, who cares? It's like the reason they made that backers compatible. Yeah, yeah, but it was still like, It kind of doesn't work that well. Yeah. And for me, like, you know, the original Xbox is not just a bunch of PC ports and Halo and stuff. There are some really, there was some really interesting and exclusive games to that, which I wrote about in the magazine, of course, the Japanese ones at least.

Yeah, there's a whole issue about that, right? Yeah, all the weird Japanese games I wrote about, but also some American releases as well. Stuff like Phantom Crash is a favorite of mine. I mean, it's not a great game, but it's a kooky little meck game. And I think, you know, that sort of come back one way or another would be cool. We're going to be able to be. I'm going to be. I'm going to be.

I'm going to be. So we have another letter. From A.L, and he writes in to say, there are a number of historically important games that are now regarded as having quote-unquote aged poorly, such as Golden Eye, Mortal Kombat, Metroid, etc. Are there any aged poorly-type games that you came too late, years after release, and thought the consensus was wrong? Having limited experience with the pre-R-E4 Resident Evil games,

and despite years of hearing the games weren't worth playing anymore, I downloaded RE2 on PSN in 2010 and became one of my favorite games. It's from AL. I don't want to go first this time. Does anyone have an immediate answer for this question? Something that has aged too poorly for you to enjoy. That was acclaimed. People say that Earthbound beginnings, the original mother, has aged poorly and has aged so poorly that you can't enjoy it anymore.

I do not find that to be the case. Okay. It is super grindy. It is very kind. It is super difficult. I did use save states when I played it on the Wii U. Every step, yeah. Not every step, but like definitely when I had the high.

hike all the way to a dungeon and was at the beginning of it. And the fact that I was using, because I was using a fact, was like, this is super hard. But it is a beautiful game. It is totally still worth playing. And I did really enjoy going through it all, although it is super grindy, as they say. It is. It is, like, super difficult. But that is considered to have aged poorly, but I kind of stand in opposition to the idea that it's, that it's like, unplanned.

playable today. How about you, Michael? Oh, I don't know. Is Battletoads thought of his aging poorly? Some might say so. I remember I went back into that. I had never played it when it was new and discovered it again

a few years ago and was just sort of amazed seeing it run this. It's like this is one of the most fluidly animated NES games I've ever seen. Like that and Metal Storm are just like they move beautifully. and I'd never seen anything else look that good on an NES.

So, yes, I would disagree with the idea that either of those have aged badly. But what about level three? Are you a master of level three? I never really made it that far. Oh, wow. Yeah, level one of Battletoes is like one of the best experiences on the NES. Is level three, the Rocket Bike Club? That's the Rocket Bike Club.

I think it was like I did play the crap out of, sorry, I did play the crap out of Battle Toads and Battle Maniacs on Super Nintendo and I think the Rocket Bike level was a bit later in that one. I think so, too. But it was still excruciating. Yeah, and that's a much slower game, I think. It's more brawlier than all the NES one is pretty brawley.

How about you, Ray? Anything that supposedly is age poorly? I don't think I can really name anything because it's like what I think is like, I don't even think about whether it's age poorly or what the consensus is necessarily. If I'm going back to some old, some crusty old game or something, I try to be

as open-minded as possible and try to push you as much as much as I can. For example, again, to bring up the magazine, I just did a bunch of MSX games, things that were fairly impenetrable because, you know, you could not easily find, you know, a walkthrough on those sorts of things. But, you know, at that point for me, it's just like, well, what can I find here that's at least interesting? What can I talk about? What is the highlight of this one way or another?

And if there's nothing good enough to talk about, then fine, we just won't write about it. But otherwise, it's like, you know, but as far as, like, entertainment, like, I still don't try and, like, give it a pre-critical eye necessarily. I would just be like, yeah, okay. Well, this is what people talked about a while ago. Let's see if this is as bad as they say or not. And I don't know. But I don't really think about it in a sort of conscious way. For me, it's more about, I'm a big fan of adventure games, and it always makes me mad when people are just really dismissive of the idea.

Like, oh, you point on the thing and click on a use. skunk on tree, blah, blah, blah. And I will admit that... People do that? People do that. Like, they are very... Are you being sarcastic, or are you, uh, being honest? I'm confused.

No, I just, I, I've, I've not really heard that much backlash to, like, the, the very idea of point-and-click adventure games. I think a lot of people, like, bad, I do that sometimes, but it comes from a place of deep familiarity of those games. I'm not being passive groups towards you, Michael, I've never heard you do that in my presence, but, um, I think Chris, a lot of people read that old man Murray essay 15 years ago or 16 years ago, and that was the last time they thought about the genre. Right. And they're like, yeah, they're stupid and they always were, who cares. But I will agree that

like most adventure games are bad. Like, I would say 95% of them are bad. There may be 20 you need to play from that golden age. But there's a lot to love, and I don't like when people are immediately dismissive of the idea of an adventure game. Like, oh, this stupid thing. Like, oh, haven't we moved on? But I feel

like there's a lot of fun to be had. And again, I wrote a super, super long article about a day of the tentacle and oral history and going back to that game, I'm like, this game is just, it could be a modern adventure game. It feels so forward thinking, but that is a rare exception because a lot of them, again, were made

for a different kind of audience with different standards and more time on their hands, but I do get annoying people that are dismissive of adventure games in general. So that's my problem. You might have a problem with clicking on something, but you'll love press ex to pay respect. Exactly, yeah. What is call of duty, if

Maniac Mansion in a different color. I do not want to say that, never mind. So, Alexander writes, as youths, did the retronauts ever come across a scathingly negative review of a game they passionately loved? We just talked about this on an episode we recorded today. The day I learned that Kirby Air Ride

is nearly universally regarded as mediocre to trash by the game's press was the day I learned to never trust anyone over 30. And Alexander wants us to know he's kidding. Chris, do you have anything about this? Any negative-reviewed games? He's now 30. I, well, I mean, yeah, there were probably some negative reviews that I came across as a youth

and was like, what, this is genius, how dare you? The only one that I particularly remember, and it's not like I really loved the game Star Ocean the second story, but there was a newspaper, like, review of Star Ocean the second story from somebody with only a passing familiarity with, like, what role-playing games even are? Oh, yeah, I just read a one-star review of Dark Souls 3 that someone posted from their local paper. Yeah, and this was literally just somebody who, I just remember him saying just being aghast

at the idea that he had to press, I had to press the control panel, that's a direct plan, I had to press the control panel over 30 times to get through one section of dialogue. The control panel.

Jesus. I have to open my toolbox. You can see the tally marks in his notebook. Yeah, yep, yep. But just being not understanding at all of why these people were talking to each other so much. Yeah. Like what kind of a video game is that? Like, why am I going to jump on a guy's head already? Right.

That kind of perspective. Yeah. I kind of had that same reaction reading the, was it the Wall Street Journal's review of Borderlands, too? That got passed around a whole bunch where that guy was criticizing it for not having competitive multiplayer. I don't think I saw that. I do know about the Mass Effect review where the guy didn't know he could. like level up his character. Oh, for Dean Takahashi, yes.

He's still getting crap for that. I'm sorry. Yeah. Old wounds. Old wounds. That, a lot of these things can be very valuable perspective, though. I'm sure that I am sure that that review of Mass Effect was passed around a lot at Electronic Arts and BioWare, not to say, ha, ha, let's laugh at Dean Takahashi.

Oh, for sure. Yeah. But to say, whoa, guys. Like, we made a game in which somebody didn't realize they could level up. And which a game reviewer couldn't read the game. Right. Like, somebody who was played a game game. a lot of video games, like, totally

miss this. Like, there's something wrong here. I guess going back to classical stuff. I mean, there are, there were people I know who, I mean, I've, you know, heard stories about people playing, like, you know, Final Fantasy 7 and never using materia. Just, just like,

I can't, I can get past this game. It's just like, whoa. You just hit this with a sword? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. What is this? Well, it's like, they get to, like, hour 30, and it's just like, man, I really can't get past this battle. How do you get to hour 30 and not use material? You know, have a lot of time on your hand, a lot of potions. Yeah. Yes. Wow. Maybe this is just my bad memory or what, but when I was a kid,

I don't think I even paid much attention to reviews at all, really. That's for the best. But yeah, I mean, I can remember a bunch of different spreads and previews of things that EGN did or game fan did or whatever. So I didn't even really, I think, I didn't have time to get pissed off at In terms of paying attention to reviews as a kid, it was like, I think if I saw something like, oh, I guess that's bad. I'm not going to play that. Like, the only thing that sticks out in my mind

was like reading about the fallout, not even the review, but the fallout from EGM's World Heroes review where like the publisher wrote them a letter and they published it and responded to it in their letters column, which was probably really bad form. Cool, though.

I liked how brash they were. Trip Hawkins would do that with some seat. Yeah, it was infamous. Yeah, with, like, a portal runner or something like that, where he wrote a very lengthy letter, I believe, to Game Pro, saying how ill-equipped their reviewer was to review this game. Yeah. We just talked about it on our episode we just recorded,

but Earthbound famously reviewed very poorly. Again, on that episode, I did explain, the context of that time period was, like, games are growing up, games are photorealistic and bloody and mature, and what's this peanuts trash you're shoving in front of me? It's colorful and silly. I don't want this. That is why I implore you, even though I review games, don't take reviews that seriously.

The true quality of a game will come and shine and come out in like five years. You'll know how good a game is in maybe five to ten years. Because going back through retronauts, like playing fun experimental games like Echo Knight, everybody hated that game. Things like Shadow Tower, everybody hated that game. Again, game reviews are tied. They're not objective. They're tied to the expectations and cultural awareness within a very specific window of time. And that can often be very toxic to certain games that defy expectations or maybe are doing things in a strange way, things like deadly premonition, who everyone's like, let's, let's pounce on this weird Japanese game.

Oh, who's this guy think he is making a game? It's so stupid. But actually, that game has a lot of heart. It's a broken mess, but it's got a lot of heart, and I love it. So, again, read my reviews, but don't take reviews too seriously because, again, BioShoc Infinite, I think it's trash. But every reviewer was like, best game I've ever seen in my life. And then a few years later, people are like, you know what? I didn't like it.

You're absolutely right. I mean, that does shake out that way. You give it a few years, and you do start to see the things that, yeah, you've got 10 out of tens at the time, but I've been totally forgotten about it. It's stated preferences versus revealed preferences. Exactly, yeah. Just completely stop talking about the games that, as it turns out, actually weren't that good. And yet you have something like Earthbound, which you're right, was given mediocre reviews in the day.

But, you know, today is considered this class. I will admit, I look through issues of my old fanzine to see what 15-year-old me thought about Earthbound. And I was ambivalent because there were some people, because we all had our fanzines and we all traded them and reviewed Earthbound. There were some people who were like, this is the best thing ever made. And there were some people who were like,

this is utter garbage. And I was like, I'm kind of in the middle on this. I really, really hated playing Earthbound the first time that your inventory system was limited. I hated it. It's like, why do I have to manage my inventory? It's such a pain in the neck. It's not necessary.

Like, it's not, there's no necessary reason for this from a technological standpoint. Why can't I have 16 Muramasa's like in Final Fantasy? Right, right, right. And I really dislike that. I didn't like the graphics because, I mean, they were deliberately simple. And I was like, I like colorful graphics, but, like, these are, these are so simplistic that, like, I didn't buy a Super Nintendo for, you know, these set of simplistic graphics. Like, wow me. I'm looking for everything to wow me technologically.

I'm comparing it to Final Fantasy 3. going, you know, here's a role-playing game, but, like, the graphics were incredible. So then I've read later issues of the fanzine, and I think a few months later, I was like, you know, I'm starting to come around on this game. I think I kind of like this game. Yeah, it was very much like, who, okay.

Your brain, you're developing brain in the context in which the game was shown to you. And as a game... The context, absolutely. Yeah, and as a game reviewer, too, it's, again, you're a human being, and you're like, I don't want to look stupid. I don't want to be the guy who's like,

I don't get this. And I can go back and look at some of my earlier reviews where I wasn't as confident, And I go, I would give this game, like, two lower points. I would give this game a C plus instead of a B plus. And, like, and that's why I was, like, really afraid to give the witness a two out of five. I was the lowest score. I think I still am.

But it's just like, I have to say I don't like this game. You're going to have to file that review soon, Bob. Yeah, exactly. It was just like, it was, again, a concern, like, do I want to look like I'm stupid? So it's like, I have to justify this. But, again, don't take reviews too seriously, but you should still read my reviews. Please read them. Remember, they're just an informed opinion.

Exactly, yeah, yeah. By someone who plays a lot of games. And they will never be objective, no matter how much you wish to the gaming gods. So let's do one more question before we take our break, our commercial break. And Barrio, Barrio, no. It's not me. Okay, I don't know who this is. Barno writes.

Isn't that just an anagram of Ray Boa? No, it's not. Ray B, R. Oh, my God. I admit nothing. Why is Bob Mackey such a nap? Oh, my, Jesus, Ray. Would you stop? Okay. Now, this is a real, this is a real letter. He writes, he or she writes,

can you share any memorable, gratifying experiences you have had over the years? Interviewing or otherwise rubbing elbows with celebrity gay developers and put on your hard hats, boys are about to drop some names. I'm sure Chris, I'm guessing, probably has the best stories. Or, I don't know, Michael, you guys have both been in the industry longer than Ray and I. The interview, the interview that sticks out in my mind as the best I've ever had was talking to, Michel Ansel, a few years ago when he was doing previews for Rayman Origins. And, like, he is the nicest guy on the planet. Oh, wow.

That's good to hear. 99% of industry interviews that I've been in have involved, like, you know, nobody really wants to be there a lot of the time. It's just sort of like, okay, we're at E3. Let's sit down and talk about your game. You've talked to, like, a billion other journalists today. This is limited to 10 minutes. PR's standing there, and my interview with Michel Encel was about an hour long, and it was just him and me sitting on a couch along with a couple other people.

Dave Rudden was also there. I'm not sure if he's ever been on your show. He has a few times, yeah. And we just sort of, you know, asked him questions, and he was just very open and honest. Like, he was telling us stuff that, like, probably he shouldn't have. Those are great interviews. Yeah. Chris, how about you?

Geez. I mean, you know, man, I've had so many amazing interviews. I mean, you know, like, it named the childhood hero, and I've probably interviewed him five times by now. And it's always, it's, well, there we go. So it's, I mean, I will say this. I was just thinking about this recently. Nintendo 2006 E3, they had just been the Wii was first playable.

They had announced the name Wee, prior to E3, to essentially just sort of worldwide derision. And I had written a story, and I said, you know, this name is not bad. This name is not bad because they're trying to sell it to people who go into a video game starter just like, yeah, I got to get that X-Cube station. Like, you know, it's like it's simple, it's direct, and it also doesn't sound anything like the name of a video game system. Yeah, it doesn't have numbers in it. It's very, very good for worldwide. You know, you couldn't call something revolution in Japan. So I wrote this whole thing about like, you know, look, this is why this name is actually a really good idea.

It makes a lot of sense. And went to the Nintendo E3 party that year and I see Miyamoto and I walk up to him. And I'm just about to say like, hey, how's it going? And instead, he was like, oh, Chris, I read your article. Yeah, it's really great that. Yeah. He's like, yeah, I read it. It was really good.

You know, we're really thankful that like there's just, you know, some people. out there who understand what we're doing. And I'm just like, I would have fainted. I would have fainted on the floor. That absolutely is etched in my mind and stands out as a really great moment. I would have fainted and I would have woken up

in the ambulance and he'd be holding my hands. Cradling your head in the head. You say it'd be shh. Hissing you to have no more talking. It's his finger up to your lips like no. Uh, no. He's like, yeah, sorry about that, guys. Ray, I think I know what you're going to say. Yeah, you probably know what I'm going to say.

Please say it, though. Okay. Well, everybody's probably going to know because I've talked about it on a podcast about five times already. But yeah, of course, you know, I interviewed Kazayabe, who did my summer vacation and did the whole magazine about that. Scroll issue 10, if you'd like to take a look at that. And that was really fun. However, just so I don't completely run the risk of repeating myself, I will mention another great interview,

which was on my first trip to Japan, which was all in four days. We worked in a way to meet Goichi Suda and Grass Hour Manufacture. And not exactly the whole interview was so great, but the fact that we wanted to have some fun with it, and so what we did is we knew that he was a fan of the arcade game, WWF wrestlefest. Ah, yeah. So we found this old tripod, dead tripod page

of some guy made a petition to bring back wrestle fest. And so we brought out the laptop and said, Suda, would you mind? signing this petition and writing a fair message that is adorable I like that I like that

I got he did I can't beat that story I just have some very like inexplicably like I like talking to classic game developers especially Nintendo developers

I'm a Nintendo fanboy if you couldn't tell but always when you talk to them it's like talk about the new game you get one question about an old game maybe like Tanabe who directed Mario 2

doki doki doki panic I talked to him about Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freach which is a great game but it's like I want to talk to you about all the things but out of the blue for no reason

no events no game do you want to interview Koji Kondo for an hour on the phone phone interviews suck by the way but I sucked it up

and I did it and it was like pick his brain about anything and I did and that's on US Gamer I think it's my most favorite interview

I've done it's like I'm so happy he gave me the best answers but in terms of face-to-face stuff he's not really done a whole lot of interviews I got to talk to him

when he came over for that GDC where he, like, played with video games live, you know, and did the Mario stuff on piano? Yeah, I mean. That was pretty amazing. I still don't know how it happened. I didn't see other interviews with him at the time. I'm like, were we given a favor? Did somebody, like, shake a hand or something?

But I was just like, I'm so grateful for this. Yeah. Because Jeremy could have taken it. I'm happy you gave it to me. And in terms of just the recent stuff, face-to-face stuff, I will say data tentacle people. I mean, Tim Schaefer is the most successful guy. You could walk up to double-fine interview him yourself if you wanted to. But just sitting on the couch.

with him, and I've spoken with him before, sitting on the couch with him, talking with him for an hour about the game, like, how many discs of the game have to him? I forget him that he just reaches over and grabs the box and opens it up. It's just like, it's magical. It's just like, and the fact that I can sit down with Ron Gilbert and talk to him and Dave Grossman, all these great LucasArts guys, they're very

available, they're very friendly, and they want to talk. They're very lonely, and they love to hear me. They keep calling me. I want to say, I totally, totally hijacked my tropical freeze interview with Tanabe San in a way that you were not brave enough to do because I just

started out that entire interview by just asking him about Super Mario Brothers 2. And we just, we talked about Mario 2 for a long time. We talked about Mario 2 until Tanabe was literally turned to the PR people. He's like, is it okay that we're doing this? And they were like, you know, Chris, we are here to talk

about Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, I'll totally ask some questions about that game. Sure thing. The best, oh, I do want to say, this is in the story too. I mean, I asked Tanabe, I'm like, hey, how did you become like the guy who goes to America? Because, you know, you did Metroid Prime,

you did Tropical Freeze, you know, you're the Nintendo producer who goes overseas and deals with these projects. Like, how did that happen? He goes, well, I had a drinking problem and they decided that maybe if I were to go overseas and spend time overseas, that I wouldn't like just sit around and drink all the time.

Well, it sounds like he dried out and in Texas then. I guess he was good. Yeah. Awesome. Yeah, I need to lose that shame, Chris. It's holding me back. And on that notes, listen to this shameless commercial, We'll be back with some talk and letters. commercial break, I'll be doing about one of these every month, and I think two minutes per month is not asking a lot of your time, so thanks again for sitting through this. And since I'm thanking people, thank you so much if you wrote in.

I'm very sorry if we didn't get to your letter, but it was very hard to choose from all the ones we got, and I decided to make this episode completely letter-based in order to squeeze in as many as possible. So thanks again if you wrote in. So now that I've got your attention, I wanted to do a few shout-outs to some of the more unsung contributors of retronauts, and the first one I want to give a shout-out to is the band Anamonaguchi. People have still been asking us, who did your theme song? And we only mentioned it on the first episode, I believe, in 2013. So, yes, it's Anamonoguchi who did our theme song, and all of their music is great. Please check them out. And if you're wondering why our cover art has looked a little different from episode 60 onwards,

that's because we have a new artist doing all of our Retronauts album covers. That is my old buddy, Nick Daniel, who's fantastic. I recommend you check him out at latchkeyking.com. He does an ongoing webcomic, and you can reach him on Twitter at P5YCH. And finally, and most importantly, I have to stress that all the retronauts content we bring to you is brought to you by all of our great patrons at patreon.com. If you're interested in supporting the show, go to patreon.com slash retronauts. For as little as $2 a month, you can get episodes up to a week in advance,

and we have some great physical rewards if you want to give us more. In fact, we're about to send out our next round of t-shirts that feature a fantastic pog-based design, so if you want to get on the next round of physical rewards, go to patreon.com slash retronauts. If you keep giving us money, we'll keep making the thing that you like, and I think that's a pretty good deal. Anyhow, thanks so much for sitting through this commercial break, and please enjoy the rest of the show. I'm going to be able to be. I'm going to be. I'm going to be.

I'm going to be. We're back and thank you so much for that. I know you sat through it, folks. So we're moving on with our listener mail episode with another question. And this one is by someone known as Q1, who writes, what do you think about flash carts being produced for older systems? I think this ties into our preservation.

Has anyone bought a flash cart? I'm guessing he means like the multi, like, blow jerom from this bad boy kind of thing. Yeah, as a gift. I'm going to buy more. Cricks.com, K-R-K-Z-Z-Z, or whatever it is, Krikes.com. Yeah. Yeah, he does Black Friday sales. So, I mean, he, when Black Friday rolls around this year,

so this past year I bought an NES Ever Drive, a Super NES Ever Drive, and the Game Boy one. Cool. And the Game Boy Ever Drive, you can put every Game Boy game that was ever made on the Game Boy Ever Drive. How many Gets is the... Is it like 32 gigs or something? I don't even think it's measured in gigs, Bob.

It's like 256 megabytes. Yes, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, heck yes. I mean, that's what I'm playing Terranigma on, on my Super NES flash drive, because it's PAL, so it just sort of automatically converts it. That's, I mean, but if I ever, like, think of a Game Boy game,

I can play it on original hardware. Oh, it's beautiful. I'm going to buy the rest. I'm going to get myself a turbo ever drive, you know, so I can play turbographics and PC engine stuff on original hardware, no matter what game it is, no matter if that game is Magical Chase and costs $2,000.

I feel slightly ignorant, but I'm not very aware of this world outside of, like, DS flash carts and things like that. I wasn't really aware of the world of, like, NES and, you know, turbographic flash drives. They're doing them for a lot of different platforms right now. How about Michael and Ray, have you guys tinkered with these, and what do you think of them? I haven't. I would really like to get one. I have a NeoGeo Arcade Cabinet. Oh, yeah.

Oh, wow. That thing is a super pain to, like, you have to, like, reach in through the, the coin. slot thing like open that panel reach in pull out the boards pull out the cartridge that's like this

VHS size cartridge and then slide another one in my arm gets cut up and then like it doesn't always work you're bleeding all over the table Michael please it didn't well scratched up I didn't say I didn't seat it right so now I have to reach

and pull it out and pop it back in again maybe blow on it a bit whatever you're being attacked by spiders the entire time so it would be really convenient if I just had one big cartridge that had all of my games on it, and I didn't have to constantly swap it out. Yeah, and there are pirate, like, multi-carts for NeoGeo,

which you can get somehow. I have mixed feelings about that. Like, I don't like the idea of buying games from pirates that they didn't create. Right, right, right. Yeah. How about you, Ray? I've only bought one as a gift. I made a custom cartridge for my friend Alex for his retro game bar.

Was it Dragon Questie? Oh, what did you make him? I got the Famicom one. and just made him like a competition cartridge, which I just put a bunch of, like, multiplayer-focused ROM hacks on it and like the Rockman Challenge things that they made. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Because he has people over at the bar a lot, and they like to play Mega Man stuff and play all sorts of competitive things. So I did that, and like the Chippendale 2 basketball hack, which only boots to the Chippendale basketball minigame. So, yeah, I just put a bunch of those hacks on there. Oh, that's cool. Didn't fill it up or anything, but yeah, it was cool.

And so, I mean, I will probably take up the next Black Friday. Friday sale. I think it's on for myself. That sounds cool. As for me, like, I'm a Philistine, and also I have a small living space, so I just kind of emulate everything, and that's fine. And you shouldn't feel ashamed if you're doing it, too. But if you have the room and you want to be authentic, by all means, go for it. I think these are great solutions to tracking down carts you'll never find, or carts that are being called by, like, collectors. I think they're perfect for fan translations.

Oh, yeah, yeah. That's when I would get the Game Boy one from. When I first saw this question, I thought he meant, what are those called, those cards that are just made with a translation on them or like what they call them repros. Repro got it, yeah. Although they aren't really reproducing anything. Exactly. I'm cool with that if it's a rare game that you might not ever be able to buy again and no one will ever get the money.

When you start using fan translations and not giving those people money, though, it gets kind of sketchy, especially like the Mother 3 translation, like, hey, those people are still around and you can give them PayPal money. You can give them donations, but let's say you're using D. Japs, Tales of Fantasia. Like, I don't know where those people are. Maybe it's okay. Version one. You know, you shouldn't send too much money on these things.

Like, after a while, people buy repros of games, and I'm like, you are kind of wasting your money. Like, it's not, the thing you own is not kind of, it's not intrinsically valuable. Yeah. It's not really a collectible. It's just a, it's a game that somebody put a different game on. And you're kind of wasting money by buying many of these cartridges, because they're not originals in any way. And so just get an ever drive and put all the ROMs you want on that instead of buying all these repo cards. Yeah.

The one exception that I would say is like, well, I mean, the only thing that I own is I own a repro cartridge of Star Fox 2. Cool, yeah. Because you have to kill a Super FX game to make a Star Fox 2 cartridge that you can then play on a console. Yeah. I never thought of it that way. Right, right. So somebody's copy of Vortex or, you know, Stunt Race FX or my Doom, maybe, it was Superfax. Something had to die for my Star Fox 2 to live.

but I've gotten a lot of use that a lot when friends come over and it's like, oh yeah, I have a cartridge that plays Star Fox too. Man, I guess I wouldn't feel that bad about killing Super Nintendo Doom. Right.

It didn't even run that well to begin. I say leave Sten Racefx alone. I have a real soft spot for that game. I don't know why. It's just adorable. God, I love it. Yeah. All 10 of its frames per second.

Hey, every frame is glorious. And those Ardman commercials ripped off Star Race FX. Imagine making headlights into eyeballs. No one would ever do that. No, no one had ever thought of that. Yeah, and cars. They'll stunt race FX's a big check, that movie.

They, cars, the eyeballs were not on the headlights. Oh, you're right. Oh, they probably were like, we don't want to get sued. Man. So creepy. So we have another question, one by AP. I assume it's not the defunct grocery store chain, A&P. That was a reference for no one, by the way.

It's associated press. Okay, got it. So the question is, your podcast seems to have the momentum of a runaway freight train. Why are you so popular? And my answer is, ooh, a tough question, but a fair one. That was actually But the person wrote But they have a real question

They just wanted me To give you the Mr. Burns line And I did So hope you're happy And my second Equally Real question is With Bob playing through Marvelous At the moment

I'm doing that live streams And they're all on a YouTube page By the way I was wondering What Japan exclusive game Would you guys most likely Would you guys most like to see Officially localized for the US

Somebody has to say I'm going to say mother three I rest my case Somebody else missed out Right, right exactly It's already translated. Please, Nintendo. Just lower yourself to borrowing a fan translation or paying the people. I don't know. I just want to see this game playable because I love it. Anybody else? What Japanese game would you like to see localized for the U.S.? I'm guessing he means an old game, he or she? Again, I'll say Saken Densetsu 3, aka Secret of Mata 2. You're taking all my answers.

Ray, do you have anything? I'm racking my brain. Sorry, this will take a while. We can return to it. I actually wrote some things down, I thought. Oh, yeah. Fighting Vipers 2 is one of them. Okay, cool. Even though that has probably no story whatsoever.

Yeah, it's also polarizing. Yeah, was it, was it a Dreamcast game? Yeah. Oh, okay. Yeah. It's on Dreamcast. Somehow did not make it over here. Oh, also the other two chapters of Shining Force 3.

Okay, yeah. Oh, that's a good one. That's a good one, yeah. Are those fans translated? I thought at least one of them was. I'm not sure all fans. Yeah, I think so. Yeah, I think so, yeah.

Oh, boy, but speaking of Dreamcast in chapters, how about El Dorado Gate by Capcom, which is like a... All seven discs. Yeah, an episodic RPG on disc. God, so weird, so weird. Yeah, I want to see that game in action. I've never actually looked into it outside of like a GIA preview from 16 years ago probably.

So yeah, those are good answers. Let's move on to our next question. Rick writes, and Rick and several other people ask this question, and I think we should tackle it because it comes up a lot on our show. Rick writes, I still think of retro as meaning from my childhood, even though the time marches on and positional modifiers adapt. I don't know what that phrase means. Still, it's weird to think of games that embrace technical advances from the century as landmarks of past history.

As gamers of a certain age, how do you feel about this? My answer has always been in the Games Press. We never get a chance to talk about old things. Even a year ago is too old to be relevant. So this podcast is just a way for us to talk about things that are not new. And we drew the line arbitrarily at 10 years, although I think I've broken that rule plenty of times. But really, it doesn't mean from your childhood, like as we age, people are having nostalgia for different things. things. And some people were, I wouldn't say upset, but they were questioning why is Half-Life

2 on Retronauts. It's not a retro game. It's like, for a lot of people, it is. For a lot of people just entering adulthood, it's a game they played as kids, and we can't change that. But I feel like... Right, this is the venue in which to talk about things that are not on the bleeding edge of video games. Yeah. I mean, how do you guys feel about Retro? I feel like, I have accepted that people are nostalgic for things that I was a surly adult already, you know, when they came out. I don't know if you feel the same way, or if you feel like retro was like, no, no, 3D is retro. Like, do you draw lines anywhere? No. No, Ray's laughing. No, because I'm not an asshole.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, yes. I used to be like that. I used to be like, what are these people thinking they're retro for having played mortal combat in the 90s? Everybody did that. I've gotten all those hate mail from you, Michael. I mean, this is a, I'm sorry. I don't know, this topic seems to be coming up a lot. It does. As you said, you got multiple questions about it. And it's like, I think there's just like a new wave of threatened people feeling like they need Like something They're normal

They will pass eventually Yes exactly Yeah Yeah It's true It's a phase If I could overcome the horror Of thinking of the Nintendo 64

My first system in college Being retro Yes exactly Then you can too When it happens to the PS2 Yeah And I feel that If I could just excise

Every opinion I had Between the years Like 15 and 24 And just pretend I never had any of those opinions that would be great. Unfortunately, a lot of those are on the internet, aren't they? Right, yeah, exactly. I'm living that hell too. Yeah. But I think that, and no offense to JOM, I mean, it's an honest question and everyone is coming from a good place. But I feel like a lot of people use that discussion as a form of gatekeeping, which is common in any hobby. Like this, no, I'm more authentic. No, no, I'm more authentic. Yeah, but that conversation is not productive, nor is a conversation about the arbitrary meaning of words. I mean, words are fluid, meaning can change. And people, I got another question that's like, why do you game reviewers and game writers, use the word title as a synonym for game.

Are they ashamed of saying game? But it's really like we have so few words to use in talking about video games. So whenever... If you say game over and over again, it's so repetitive. Exactly. And whenever I hear an editor,

and I've worked with good editors for most of my life, but whenever I hear an editor, make arbitrary, like, don't use this word, don't use that word. Like, I only have so many words to use. Please don't take more words away from me. So title, game, experience,

product, or release. Like, these are all things that we use in our writing, or at least I do, to make sure I'm not being repetitive. That's the worst sin you can commit as a writer outside of just being completely unintelligible like the way I talk. So the worst sin you can commit as a writer.

Well, personally, it is something that you want to work out in the editing process. In terms of like surface level issues, I think it's like the most noticeable thing for any reader. But in terms of like bottom level issues in terms of like meaning and arguments and stuff like that, it's not as severe.

If you're not, yeah, if you're not writing about it, if you're not doing a podcast about it, you're probably just more sensitive of that surface level stuff. And it's just like, what does it all mean? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean, some people have gotten prickly about the word title.

Like, why do we call these titles? Again, it's like, just please give me synonyms. I need synonyms. You know, I mean, everybody has their own, like, pet peeve word that they hate to. Exactly, yeah. Sorry, that's yours, but, you know, it happens. I know editors, and not to go on too long about this talk, but I know editors that, I'm not going to name them, but some of them are like, never say the game.

And as someone who taught English and someone who has a master's degree. Exactly. As someone who taught English, someone who studied English for a long time, I know these rules are taught to people so they can't be abused. So if you teach someone something is okay, it becomes an easy crutch for them to keep falling back on it. And I've read those reviews that are like, the game does this, the game does that. So if you tell a writer never do this, you eliminate that issue entirely. But in using it responsibly, I think, it's fine. Just like using a... To go to a writer and say, yeah, hey, you're banned from using this word. It's to try to break them out of the rut of using it. It doesn't...

mean that no one can ever use it. It's sort of a personal thing between the editor and the writer. I've banned people from using m-dashes from setting things off in sentences with m-dashes because they would write an 800-word piece that would contain five phrases that would set off in am-dashes

and they would never set a phrase off in commas and they would never set a phrase off in parentheses. And I was just like, you're banned from using m-dashes. Yeah, you can see how it could be a crutch for some writers. And if I want to put them back into your story, I will, but you're banned from using them. But again, this is getting too inside baseball, I think. So back to retro.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Again, I think, you know. We are now arguing about the meaning of words. But again, I think that just enjoy the fact that this can exist and that we can talk about things. And don't worry too much about if something is old enough. Because the fact that, I mean, who else is talking about, like, we just did a Sim City episode. Who is talking about Sim City? I mean, there's no anniversary.

There's no new game. We're just, let's sit down and talk about Sim City. So it's a good way to talk about things that aren't tied into. like a sale or like a new product or a current conversation. Just like we can do this and that's fun, I think. So we have another question. We have Joey M who writes. I recently heard that M2 may be able to start working on Sega Saturn or Dreamcast ports.

What do you think of the chances of this happening are and what are some games from the era you'd be interested in seeing M2 tackle? I personally loved a chance to take on Burning Rangers for a fair price. And I agree with Joey. That game looks cool, but I will never play it unless I get another version of it. And I think M2 is so tied into Sega and working with Sega and making these games shine again that I think this is a real possibility. Yeah, I think that, yeah, I mean, they've had such a great working relationship and it brought back so many games that, like, moving on, I mean, again, like, we are moving into an arrow in which people are nostalgic for Sega Saturn and Dreamcast as we are nostalgic for Super Nintendo. So, you know, to start capitalizing on that and start bringing these games back, it would be great to have somebody as good as M2 essentially working on this kind of stuff.

So it makes a lot of sense that they might begin to do that. And then once you nail Saturn emulation or Dreamcast simulation for one game, you know, that kind of extends to the rest of the library. So you can start bringing that stuff out again. So, yeah, fingers crossed, that would be great to see. I mean, just to be able to go on to Steam and just get Panzer Dragoon Saga and Burning Rangers and all the other, you know, the Saturn games. I'd love to see Burning Rangers cleaned up a bit because my memories of that game at the time.

Like, this is great, but it looks so rough. it's not worth like the $300 that you have to pay for Oh no, absolutely not Yeah, it pushed the system a bit And so Yeah, I think so Oh, they did a lot of crazy

Stuff with Burning Rangers, right? Yeah, yeah Lots of tape and string On some of those parts So we have a question from Daniel J who writes in to say Given our current age of remake slash reboots Is he a rapper?

Oh, that was unintentional. He's a Barney Burble-style rapper in that case So given our current age of Remakes slash reboots Which games have received the best treatment worst? Which games, in general or specific, are most deserving of a remake or reboot? Anyone have anything that comes to mind immediately? I have a few really good remakes and maybe one or two really bad remakes in mind.

Shoot. Well, I can say that, again, I think Resident Evil, that remake is sort of the definitive remake. And not only updates the game for a more playable experience, but it also screws with what you know about it. And I think that's the best feature of it. I also say, like, Day of the Tenticle had a fantastic remake. The way they treated that product was amazing. And as far as bad remakes go, I think the, unfortunately, the Gabriel Knight remake was not very good. I can't go into specifics here because I just, I read about it a lot at the time.

And I was like, oh, man, they did that to that game? But, yeah, I'm sorry, I can't go on anymore about that. And I remember Wild Arms, the first game had a really bad remake for PS2. I think it was called Wild Arms Alter Code F. Oh, wow. And I just remember being like, this is. bad. Like, I'll just go play Wild Arms again. Yeah, that didn't really need to happen.

It works on my PS2. I just plug it right in. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, it just a sparse, ugly game to me. So, um, any good remakes. I heard really bad things about the Silent Hill 2 remake, especially, that Konami did a few years ago. Oh, yeah. I mean, HD pack thing? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, that was notoriously, um, just in terms of, I guess they didn't have a lot to work with, but again, some people didn't like the re-recorded voices. I think there was a lot of attachment to some of even some of the bad voices from two and three because those were not all professional actors in that game. So, yeah, but again, they couldn't get the fog right.

So you were seeing things that you weren't supposed to see, like the hard edges of geometry of things that were supposed to be shrouded in fog, with the edge of water and things like that. Anybody else? Any remakes you like, any remakes you hate? Well, I haven't yet played Adventures of Mana, which is the remake of the first second Nintendo. Oh, is that new?

It is. They did a version for Mobile and Vita in Japan, and then they're bringing it out, or they brought it out on mobile in the U.S. and then have not brought the Vita version over at all. And they're also doing Romancing Saga, too. Same thing that's going to be on Vita in Japan, and then they're doing a whole English translation for it for mobile, but they're not committing yet to bringing over the Vita version at all.

It's like, I kind of want buttons before I want to play these games. Me too, yeah. The second you said mobile, I was like, I want buttons for this. Yeah. I will say I started playing the new Ratchet and Clank the other week, and I was very impressed with it. Oh, is that a remake of the first game? It is, yeah.

Although it's not, it's like a reimagining of the first game. Okay, yeah. Based on the movie. What I've heard, Michael, is that the game looks better than the movie in terms of... I think I've said that, actually. Oh, you have? Okay, maybe I heard it from you then. But, I mean, it's very disappointing the movie. I mean, I think that was striking while the iron was in the landfill because Ratchett and Clank...

Right, right, right. It's a great worthwhile game. Don't get me wrong, it's a great series. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was, it reached its peak in, like, 2000. in terms of popularity. It seems like Hollywood sits on these ideas. Like, let's make it alone in the dark movie in 2003.

Or let's make a Resident Evil movie very, very late. They sign the deal. And then it's like they get to the point where the deal is going to, is going to default, right? You know, the deal is going to be over. And it's like, quick, make the movie the right's to. We're going to see the Halo movie in like 2030. By the time, you know, whatever, what's a studio's name again? 343 or?

Three, four, three. Yeah, by the time they move on to a new franchise, we'll get the Halo movie. with like Will Smith Jr. Junior Jr. Getting that Assassin's Creed movie this year, not... Really? Michael can't say anything about that. He's clamped up.

I like the trailer. Okay. Well, you know, we were talking about M2. What they did with Fantasy Zone 2 was really cool. Because that was originally a Master System game. Then they made their own, like, quote-unquote, fantasy version of it for the Sega arcade hardware of the 90s. So it was basically a remake of an old game

on old hardware, which they then ported to the 3DS for the new re-releases. Yeah. And then also added a cool, like, inless mode to that game as well. M2 is great. They're the best. Like, Japan should declare them a national treasure so that they can never go out of

business. Sometimes, though, it hurts my, it breaks my heart when I see them giving a game a treatment that doesn't deserve it and get ready for the hate mail torrent to come in, but Echo the Dolphin, really? M2 wasted their time on Echo. I know a lot of people treasure that game, but I just think it's such a bad game. Part of that, you also have to understand what Sega otakuism is like over in Japan.

I see. Is Echo a big deal in Japan? Well, it's more like the Mega Drive was not that huge in Japan necessarily. And so Sega fans in general are just sort of obsessed. And so they were more responsive to the sort of artsy games that sort of came from America. Like they just, like, they released the ooze and they just gave it this box art that just doesn't. It's a cool looking box, but it doesn't have anything to do with the game itself when you look at it. That's weird.

So they really, yeah, they just treat those sorts of things like, Curio's at there. Right. Well, Bob, you'll be happy to know. I just read a new story. M2 is going to be doing a port of Bioshock Infinite next. Oh, my gosh. So excited. My favorite retro game.

It is retro, no, it's not. FM Towns Marty. I will say the Clanoa remake I did like for the Wii, but I mean, that was when you couldn't play the original on PSN. It was kind of one to me. You mean the Clanoa relapse? Relapse, oh, God. But I'm glad they didn't redesign Clanoa because that would have been a mistake. So we have Matthew who writes him to say, this is about Final Fantasy 8.

He says, my question is, why do you feel there are such mixed opinions on this game? I personally loved it, but I played it at a time when I related to Emo Squall at the ripe age of 14. I feel this game may be similar in a sense to reading Catcher in the Rye. Depending on your age and life experience, your reception on it can change. And that's from Matthew. Who wants to, I have plenty of opinions on this, but did anyone else? Well, you know, Andrew Vestal, you know, friend of the show and Final Fantasy expert has definitely been coming back around, I think, on Final Fantasy 8 as of late.

And he, you know, he makes some good points. I mean, it really is an interesting story about Moody High School kids that maybe doesn't hit you when you're a Moody High School kid. Do you think, wow, these people are real jerks? But, like, you know, when you kind of look back on it, like an adult, you kind of understand a little bit more about the, you have the perspective to bring to it. I didn't mind Final Fantasy 8 I just basically hated the fact that I got to the end boss

Couldn't beat the N boss And I was like, what do I do? And someone's like, you should melt down your Gilgamesh card And I'm like, I don't have a Gilgamesh card Because I didn't play that card game Because it's dumb, I didn't buy this to play a card game They're like, well, you're going to have real trouble beating this end boss then.

I'm like, F this. Yeah, that was my experience. That was part of what I didn't like about the game was like the accentuation of that card game. And like, I didn't know like this. But I think also, like, speaking as a Final Fantasy fan at the time, like going from 6 to 7 felt like a very natural progression. Like it had kind of a cutesy art style, but mixed with this world where, like,

he had magic and technology. And it was, 7 was grittier than 6, but at the same time it kind of kept the spirit of fun that I think had been behind the Final Fantasy games at that point. And eight, tonally, was like, it felt like a huge shift for me. It's like these characters are just kind of moody and serious. I don't really... There was no place for Mughals anymore.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Like, the things that I like about Final Fantasy aren't being represented here. This is something completely different, and I'm not really, it's not clicking with me. I played through when I was a moody 17-year-old at the time, and I kind of fumbled my way through it, and I was like, this is okay. But when I went back to play it in 2010, just inexplicably, I was probably, I was probably, unemployed, I'm guessing. I was like, oh, I know how to break the game now, and this makes it much better. Like, getting the aura spell, which gives you your limit break instantly.

I killed the last boss in one hit, Chris. That's how you do it. Yeah, you break the living hell out of the game, and then you break it over your knee. Yep. I will say, I do like... Take it out behind the woodshed. I do like the mundanity of the school setting and, like, the early part of the story. Eventually, the story goes way off the rails and to like a crazy, on the scale of Xenogiers.

Like, what? really this is happening now? Like monsters are falling from the moon and yeah, like I followed it up to a point but I was like, I really wish you would have kept that really charming mundity for this school lifestyle but they had to have the Final Fantasy twist where it's like, no, it's a great evil and this and that

and like, oh, come on. Luckily, Final Fantasy 9 saved that for like the last five minutes. Right, right, right. Well, that's the ending of the classic Final Fantasy game where you get to the end and the antagonist that you've been fighting the entire time is like, oh, I'm not the end boss. The end boss is this formless blob that, you know,

peer to four unseen. People complained about that with nine, but I'm like, have you never played Final Fantasy? Right. Before, I mean, most of the games are kind of like that. You literally, at the end of Final Fantasy four,

you know, consider one of the best Final Fantasy games. It's like, oh, oh, no, no, no, I'm your cousin or whatever. We're fighting this guy in half of you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're fighting Blobby over here. How about you, Rae, Final Fantasy A, any opinions on this one?

I'll just say there's mixed opinions on every Final Fantasy game. That's true. That is true. That is very true. I don't think there's a consensus on any of them. The rankings, you know, are kind of getting shifted around as the years go on.

And, again, like, Final Fantasy 5 was considered this, like, black sheep. But, like, now it's kind of, like, you know, maybe sort of Dark Horse Contender for Best Final Fantasy. Yeah, and I think the same thing with Nine, actually. I remember the Penny Arcade comic at the time where the two characters were, like, which one was Nine again? Did the guy have a water sword or a tail or something? Like, it was this nothing game released in the PS2s, like, during PS2 mania.

Like, who cares about this? Let's play new games. Yeah. I loved Final Fantasy Nine. I thought, like, that was a return back to what I did like about. Yeah, and I agree with you, Michael. Some people saw it as cynical, but I'm like, they're referencing games we never got.

It's not cynical for us. It's just like, I don't know what this Final Fantasy 3 reference is right now. It hadn't even been, it's not like it was like, it hadn't been long enough for it to be a cynical nostalgia look back in the past. It was only like 10 years old or 13 years old. It was still the 90s. Exactly. We were still just, yeah.

God, that's so funny. Thank you. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm not. I'm No. Thank you.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm not. I'm No. So we have a lot of it. question here. Just wanted some black mages.

Exactly. That's all I wanted my life. It hadn't been that long. It gave you so many black mages. Almost too many, but still not enough for me. So Stephen F. writes, does the retronauts team have any fond memories of playing demo discs?

Any demos that you played until the disc was worn out? Any franchises you may have missed out on had you had not experienced it on a demo disc. I will say that I subscribed a PC gamer for like five years. And until I left Ohio, I kept all the demo discs inexplicably. But the era of the PC gamer demo disc was great. There would be like,

15 games on a disc and like, what is this? What is that? Oh my God, this is so strange. I mean, the PlayStation demo disks were great. It was usually like five, three or five games maybe. But the PC gamer demadisc, I have the greatest memories of just like trying the weirdest stuff on there and just like being amazed.

So, um, Bray, you seem to be on board with this. I got a lot of mileage at a PC gamer. That's for sure. I played the first level of Thexter 95 more than I can count. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. You know, the kind of demo disc that I was liked were the ones that often came and came with the systems came packed in because, you know, that was like, in some cases, that was like

the only games you get to play for a couple months after you bought this $200, $300. That's true, yeah. It's like, I'll play too extreme again because I have to. So that was, you know, kind of a nice thing that they would throw in there. But, yeah, I mean, gosh, there is demo disc nostalgia for sure. There's PlayStation Underground, people love those for a long time. My God. There's even like, well, I think there's a guy now who does.

a blog about Japanese demo disks called the Demobon and he just covers all these things that he picks up from auctions and stuff and just writes about

him so yeah so it's another window into like what was going on in Japan yeah I remember thinking that this was really cool

and this was totally going to become a thing that working designs put out the lunar demo disc that you played through the first hour of the game

on the demo disc and then you imported your save into the retail version. Now, everything does that. Except there was a bug, and if you did something, it would cause you to not be able to finish the game or something like that. It also, in the sound test, it told you by the name of a song,

who the secret villain was. But, I mean, look at the cover. You know that you guy's a bad guy. Yeah, seriously. But certainly the demo disc that got the most play in my house was not even by me. It was my brother playing the first Tony Hawk's Pro Skater on the PlayStation 1 demo disc. demo disc, and he played that demo disc for as long as some people

play video games. I mean, he really, like, I mean, literally, like, 10, 15 hours on that demo disc. Final Fantasy 8, which I played more than the actual game. I play that demo disc a lot. But I have to say, I'm surprised none of you have called out Metal Gear Solid 2.

I had so much to talk about PC demo disk, but that was one of mine too, yeah. I mean, in terms of just, like, replaying the hell out of that thing. Yeah. And also, since you guys brought up PC Gamer, I will say, I was subscriber to its Dark Twin Mac addict for many years, and I would get these Mac demo disks. And so I discovered some early games Pathways into Darkness. Oh, cool.

Marathon was a big one by Bungee, which would later go on to make Halo. Of course, yeah. Never heard of it. And, of course, the demo disc that was packed in with the Zone of the Enders was very, I mean, I think everyone bought Zone of the Enders because it's a barely finished game. But there is so much more to do in that Metal Grosolito two demo disk. And it's like what some people would call the best part of the game.

The part of the game with the most interactable objects, the most like weird, strange things you can do. I think they put the most work into that ship level in Metal Gersault 2. I definitely think when, what was the game that came with the square and, oh, I think like Parasite

Eve came with a bunch of demos. I think Brave Fencer Musashi. Oh, a bunch of demos. I'm trying to think of games that I bought and the first thing I did was pop in the demo disc. Didn't they do a thing with like Final Fantasy 7 or eight where they had multiple demo disks that would come with different games.

Tobol number one had the Final Fantasy 7 demo, right? Yeah. I mean, that's a lot of people bought Tobol number one. You mean multiple demos of the same game? Multiple demos of the same game, but they'd be packaged with different games. Yeah, Square was doing a lot of that in the U.S. You'd buy a game and it would have

like a demo disc with like four. Yeah. And they'd be extensive demos. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And of course, Resident Evil 2 demo disc on the director's cut was a big deal. I mean, I played that one a lot. a lot. I play that one a lot. So we have another question from Neil.

And he says, what are your favorite B-tier games, games that you adore or that didn't receive a lot of attention for whatever reason? I think I've done a few episodes about these, but things like weird, like, things like Echo Knight,

a first-person horror adventure game. And I also love Pac-Man 2, the new adventures. It's like, I was just so fascinated by that game, and I was like, why do people hate this? I know Pac-Man 2, that carries a lot of baggage that title, but it's this weird, interactive cartoon that was made to like embrace

the burgeoning multimedia formats on a cartridge so like having an interactive cartoon was a new and fun thing but everybody was like what is this crap and I was like it's fun come on guys how about you everybody B tier games I will say I really did like Echo Night on PS1 as well

I thought that was a really effective horror game in the terms of you know you're just running from something that's very slowly following you Clock Tower was another one in that Oh, yeah, I like Clock Tower. And, yeah, Clock Tower 3, I actually really liked for the first half. But that's when I think nobody really played when it came out.

I don't think so either. Didn't it come out at the same time as Haunting Ground? They had very super similar premises. You're a defenseless teenage girl. And both published by Capcom. Yes. Jesus. Right at the same time, that's really weird.

Yeah. But like the Godfather game, I remember that came out, and I think everybody dismissed it as a cynical movie tie-in. And it actually had an interesting story of it. own that like the idea was no you're a character who exists behind the scenes of the godfather movie so you're seeing this parallel story that you know runs alongside the movie but I thought it was interesting that's cool Chris what just any any B tier game like an unsung game you think is undervalued maybe in terms of retro ninja blade um pass come back to me so do you have anything

right I only play C tier game you elitist yeah or defeatist who knows I will say I love the NES game totally rad. Okay, yeah. I think that is like literally an eight-tier game, but people are like, oh, the whole like gnarly 80sification of the dialogue is people can't get past that. What was the original Japanese game, magical? Magic John. Yeah, Magic John.

But they totally redid it to look like Ted from Bill and Ted. But it's a fun, like, little action platform where you can change forms and you have spells and stuff. Like, I enjoyed the hell out of that as a kid. Yeah. Yeah. I guess, I mean, I think Eternal Darkness is an excellent game. I think it kind of gets a lot of unfair. crap now for some reason

but like... Is that Kenna's beat here? No, I don't think it... I think it was definitely AAA at the time in terms of the amount of tension that was put into it. But like, when I see people discuss it, it's like, oh, that game wasn't very good. Oh, it was fantastic. What were they talking?

Yeah, I don't know. Yeah. What a bunch of idiots. I think the sins of Silicon Knights are kind of making, like poisoning their older good games, you know? Yeah, yeah. I mean, after Return to Darkness, they did not exactly have a good run there. No. They had two good games in them. Uh, so Miles writes, and I like this question, he says, who's your wifu?

Uh, I mean, seriously, feel free to make fun of the concept of wifu's, which is perfectly justified. Character writing for female characters in retro games is generally tricky and tends to verge on the manipulative sexist and titillating. But sometimes it worked despite itself and produce female characters, which, while often not much more than a passive assortment of traits and tropes geared towards a certain demographic, still worked. They may have had something about them that made you go well. I like her a bit more than that other girl. I wouldn't mind having a real-life girlfriend who's kind of sort of maybe like that character in some way or another. And that's what Miles wants to know. Who's my wifu?

I will tell you, Miles, it's adult Rydia from Final Fantasy 4. Ooh. I was like, I like this lady. And then when the DS remake came out, they made like super sexy a CG renderer for him. Like, this is too sexy. Like, get this away from me. Right. And I've, yeah, I don't do anything creepy with these thoughts, by the way.

I just think she's an attractive character. And I think that's my wifu. Are we too afraid to say what our wifos are? I'm getting these things. No, no, I'm just so many to choose from. I'm just trying to think of who my wife who is. Notice I said adult Rydia, you perves. Right, right, right, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I guess, what was her name? Oh, so I can still say child Ritia? Okay, you can have that one. The character's name, I think, Joe from Kendo Rage, the teenage girl who transforms into a Kandu Kendo superhero. Also a Kandu superhero. Is she a Kandu Kendo superhero? Yeah.

That's hard to say. She doesn't even want to be a superhero. It's just sort of thrust upon her by a strange guy who ambushes her as she's walking home from school. And this game sounds really creepy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Getting thrust upon by a strange guy. I would have Kendo Rage 2 if that happens. Right, yes.

Kendo Rage 2 is like a one-on-one fighting game. And I saw that. Oh, yeah. I'm not so interested in this. Have you decided on your wifu yet, Chris? Chris has a real wifu and so does Michael. Well, in my household, we really, we like Parap of the Rappap. quite a bit. So, I mean, I'll just say, you know, I'm, I'm Parapa and my wife is

Sunny Funny. Okay. You know? I never thought Sunny Funny was a very well-realized character. No, no, no. Oh, Parapa, I'm hungry. She did get, she did get harassed? She'd get sexually harassed. That's true. Joe Chimson is in jail, yeah. No, it was the other, whatever that guy is, the guy is a real jerk. That's a, yeah. Yeah, that, he never got a name, did he? No. It's like, yeah. Right, right, right, right, that guy. That guy, that guy. Right, are you, are you too afraid this? No, I'm not. I'm just honestly trying to think. I'm going to put this out. I'll also say

Lammy as long as we're talking about her wrap of stuff. Oh, yeah, okay. Okay, Michael, we're going to have the fight now because I was going to say Lammy and she's mine. Oh, okay, well, you can have her. Well, what are you going to have Rami? That could make me a furry, but who knows, I'm not ashamed of my name of Lammy love. I'll take Rami. I'm kind of into Goth Girls anyway.

Oh, damn it. Well, as someone who is also the same age as the Final Fantasy 8 cast, I guess her Noah counts. Yeah, she's a cutie. She's real cutie. And G's still a sparkle in my eye for Ayane from dead or alive. Gosh, darn him. She'll never call me back.

So, are you happy, Miles? We ruined our reputations on the Internet. This is all so terrible. Now people know I'm a furry, and I think the radio thing's okay, though. So let's all move on with our lives. Superboy Alan writes, long-time retronauts listener, since you guys have an interest in Japanese RPGs,

and since some of you have pursued learning the Japanese language and use that knowledge to experience games that never came over here, I'm interested in hearing about your experience with learning Japanese when you got started with what your motivations were and how you went about picking up new words or kanji. And if you have any awkward

or interesting stories from the process of learning something, that's so different from English. And that's from Superboy Allen. And none of us are that guy who asked Miyamoto question in Japanese. So I think that's the most awkward stories. He might be listening. Was that Miyamoto? That was Miyamoto. Okay, sorry. You're forgiven and I know what it's like to be excited to meet a guy

and I feel bad for that guy, but I'm sure he's gotten over by now. I don't know his name. Anybody have I just learn Japanese from anime. Like, I know what words mean based on the context in which they're spoken in anime. So I can have an anime fight if that ever happened to me in real life. I know what I would know what words to scream. But other than that, I'm my girlfriend.

What words would you scream? I would say, to me, or whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Things like that. I don't want to say anymore. But my girlfriend does know a lot of, she knows all the, like, the Kana and stuff. And she knows some kanji. So, like, if I'm playing something or reading something, I'm like, what's this?

And she'll tell me. So I've got like a, a, like, a series sitting next. to me, I guess. Yep. Yeah. Yep. That's good. I think Chris, you...

It is Siri. Yeah. Yeah. It is actually you're right on. Yes, I'm dating Siri. You got to see what she looks like, guys. Chris, I take it that you learn... It seems like you learned...

I mean... This totally happened. Yeah. I imported Final Fantasy 5 in 1995 because I really wanted to play it. It was like this lost Final Fantasy game that had been lost for, you know, two years at that point. And I did not know Japanese, so I kind of got myself a, you know, dictionary and basically started writing down on loose leaf paper like translating words that were in katakana

out of the game so I could say words like potion or itemu or tento which really help a lot in casual conversation and that was how I first started learning and then I started taking classes and but yeah first Japanese word I ever learned was

potion oh cool yeah you can order those foul final fantasy drinks that are in production anymore I have had those those are the worst it's like drinking like a child perfume or something. Yes. Yep. Yep. It looks, they look like Windex and they taste like cough medicine.

You wish they taste like Windex. Michael or Ray, any kind of Japanese knowledge? I think Michael's confessed to his wiyubu past, and I mean, I have to. I was a very high caliber wee in high school. Super into anime, Japanese games. I think it was Japanese games that, like, clued me into

anime and like manga. I started reading all this stuff. But I took Japanese in high school and looking back, I'm, my mind is a little blown because I grew up in this hick town. It's like, how did our high school offer Japanese classes? I'm jealous. I'm jealous.

Were they like, oh, the Japanese are going to eat this alive? We might as well teach the children how to speak to their future managers. I honestly, I have a theory. I have a theory because, and I'm going to get into a deep cut about my high school here. Okay. Where was this, by the way? Huh? Where was your high school? So I grew up in a town in Washington called Richland.

Okay. And the high school that had the Japanese classes, was the Richland High School, home of the bombers. Bombers were the team, and the mascot was a giant mushroom cloud coming out of a far. And in the 80s, that is something else. This caused a major kerfuffle. I can't imagine.

With Japan, and they sent delegates over to talk to people. Oh, boy. The high school was like, no, we're not going to change this because we're run by a bunch of angry World War II. there. Oh my goodness. We're going to die on this hill, this mascot hill. This is the one. Yeah. It's still there. And then like, oh, Jesus. No, is it still their mascot?

Yeah. Wow. As far as I know, I went back in the mid-2000s and yeah, it's still there. I mean, there are a lot of, you can still buy T-shirts. When you go to like Seattle, you know, when you go to Seattle airport, all the messages are in English and Japanese, right? Like, there's a lot of Japanese, because it's so close. Yeah. You come from Japan, you're in Washington.

There is, no need to go any further. There is a historical tile, so because this area was where the Hanford Nuclear Plant was, which was where they manufactured the plutonium for the first atomic bomb. Dear Lord. It's a very new, in the 80s especially, this was a very nuclear-centric town. Like, you can see atoms on all the signs. Like, fallout.

Like, that was the background decor of my childhood. So they didn't just completely, you know, pluck it out of the air for no reason. But I think it was probably part of some sort of goodwill thing. And it's like, okay, well, we'll offer Japanese classes and cultural exchange something. not going to change our mascot. But anyway, I did very badly in those classes. Okay. I memorized the Hira Gana alphabet, and as soon as I took it for two years, did badly,

and as soon as I graduated, I forgot it. I took Japanese again in high school. Again, memorized Hira Gana, and it fell out of my mind almost as soon as I finished that class, so. I'm fine with the ad of my chronography, but maybe don't reference the nuclear Holocaust that happened within the past 50 years. It's a mushroom club, but like in the 90s, they started saying like, oh, no, we call yourself's the bombers because of the day's pay, which is this bomber that, uh, this bomber plane

that like Hanford nuclear workers, everybody donated a day's pay to help, uh, fund for the U.S. Army during World War II. And it's like, and what are those bombers do? That's kind of an apocryphal story. Yeah. But it's like, but you still have the mushroom cloud as your mascot. So this is an incomplete whitewashing effort. I was not expecting it to get that dark. Yeah. At all. No, no, no. I was like, oh, that, that's inappropriate. And I was like, that's really inappropriate. Yeah, so thanks everyone for writing. We have one last letter.

I want to say, it's a good one. It's a good one. Oh, sorry. I totally forgot Michael's story was so enchanting. Yeah, I'm sorry. We might have to leave it on that. So we are going to end with one last letter. I want to thank everyone for writing in.

Even if I didn't answer your letter, I answered in my head when I was reading it. We had to be really ruthless to fit all these into an hour and a half. Are you experiencing trepidation, Ray, about this letter? I want to read it. Oh, no, go ahead. Okay. So this is our scathing letter of the year. Is it?

This is the last one? It's the last one, yeah. Scathing letter of the year? Do you have to go, Chris? No. Okay, cool. No, but yes, I'm wanted in surgery. Oh, my God, you better scrub up.

So our scathing letter of the year, apparently when I said, please ask us question, a person decided this is an open season on criticizing us and what we do. So I wanted to read their letter out loud so we can laugh at them in good humor and good fun. I won't say who this person's name is. And I will put some music under this when I read it on the podcast. Do you want to do it in like a smooth jazz voice or something? No, I'm just going to read it in my own voice. Okay.

So it starts off pretty good. Loving this iteration of the podcast. Okay, yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Sometimes, though, you guys tend to fill in the blanks of your memory with made-up facts that could easily be looked up online. Sorry, that's my bad.

Well, we're going to get rid of Michael soon. Yeah. Don't worry. Even the comedian lets players I watch do this. And since y'all are self-proclaimed historians, try and get your facts straight. Also, bashing millennials isn't cool. You know that generation stretches all the way back

to those born in the early 1980s, right? Please don't bash millennials. And that's from question marks. And I'll say, maybe if you were not so busy counting your participation trophies, you would know that we are true and honest gamers and we're true historians. And, okay, the reason I'm reading this,

it's a plea for sanity, a plea to understand that we are humans. We are doing this on our own free time. I'm not trying to guilt-trip anybody, but we do our research, but this is just a conversation between people, and I want people to realize that we are not trying to be definitive. I don't think my opinion is definitive. We are all just people with an opinion. And in the end, I think the fact that you like our opinions is something I really appreciate,

but you shouldn't take it too seriously. This is not a primary source for anything, except maybe that Miyamoto story, I just know. Also, we must remember things sometimes. Exactly, exactly. And, again, I'm sorry to end on a negative note, but I, just want to let you guys know because I think there is some confusion. Like, I'm not trying to say if I say Pac-Man 2 is good. I'm not saying, put

it in the history books, right in the stars. Pac-Man 2 is beautiful. It's just what Bob Mackey thinks, you know? And if you take that into the context of the entire podcast in our conversation, what I say, I'm just one guy, you know? I just want people to understand that. And I just wonder,

how are they made up facts that are also able to be looked up online? That's true. He's saying we make things up instead of looking them up. bomb. And I will say, again, it's called speaking extemporaneously. Yeah, and we all do it. And I hope this person is not as harsh with their conversations they have

with other people, which I'm assuming they don't have. But again, thank you so much for listening. Thank you for writing in. I'm sorry to end on a negative note, but again, a plea for sanity. We're just humans. Let us make mistakes. You make you a free podcast, and we hope you appreciate it. So again, I've been Bob Mackey, your host. I'm not mad. I'm not even disappointed. I'm happy

to be here. And you can find me on the internet as Bob Servo. You can read my writing at something awful.com or U.S. and you can listen to my Talking Simpsons podcast. It's a chronological exploration of the Simpsons. It's on the Lasertime Podcast Network. Go to Lasertime Podcast.com and listen to it. I think you'll like it.

And you can just look up Talking Simpsons in your podcast device to find it. Everybody else, who are you? Where can we find you? I just want to say, you know, if this was something like Cornell University presents Roturnouts, we would be fucked for sure. Yeah, yeah. I would be stripped of all of my medals and badges and degrees, I think. Yeah.

Anyway, I do my own Pokemon. Podicast. I do my podcast. The podiecast. Oh, dear. It's called No More Woppers. No More Woffers. That's a fun romp.

That's what they always said in the magazines when a game was like three hours long and $60. It's a fun romp. Hi, I'm Chris Kohler. I'm an editor at Wired. Wired.com is where you find the things that I write. I definitely want to say that my old book about Japanese video games, which is called Power Up,

how Japanese video games gave the world an extra life, is finally, finally, after 12 years going to be back in print from Dover Publications this October. Brand new cover from Retronaut Karen Chu, a brand new chapter by me, a brand new forward by Shuhay Yoshida, the head of PlayStation Worldwide Studios.

And even more cool stuff is going to be jam-packed in there, and it's definitely the sort of thing that Retronauts have been asking me for for nigh on 12 years now. Yes, it will be back in print. Yes, there will be digital versions. Yes, you can read it on your Kindle. I'm super pumped, so...

Chris, you realize my first printing is going to go down in value now. How could you do this to me? How could you do this to collectors? You know, yeah, it was kind of weird and fun having, like, a collectible that I made that was super expensive, but yes, I need to now destroy the thing that I created.

I now really wish that I brought my copy for you to sign. Oh, no. Well, it's, you know, I'm still here. I work across the street from you. Oh, that's true. You just whip the book through your window. Tie it to a brick. Toss it, yeah.

I don't think Honda Nass would appreciate that property damage, though. Michael, where can we find you? You can find me at Vigigameapocalypse.com, where I do a weekly podcast every Friday, usually very early in the morning on Friday, but you should subscribe to it anyway. It's occasionally Bob is on it There's usually a regular set of hosts

Chris Antista, Henry Gilbert of Cape Crisis Dave Rudden of Cheap Popcast Yeah, we are set in a very comfortable rut And it's produced some great audio so far And I just wanted to say that you The fact that you think it's acceptable To make fun of millennials, Bob Is indicative of the entitlement

That has gripped your entire safe space-obsessed generation I'm offended I can't even talk I'm so offended I'm so thin skin I have to go rid of a think piece about this but I want to reiterate

that I love you all and I appreciate you listening to me and we'll be back next week with a micro episode take it easy everybody Bye. Thank you.