Retronauts - Retronauts Micro 76: The Wizard feat. Luke Edwards

Episode Date: December 15, 2017

Live from Super FamiCon, Jeremy Parish and Chris Sims talk about Nintendo's finest cinematic achievement, The Wizard, with the actor who played the film's title character: Luke Edwards.

This weekend in Retronauts, it's time to talk about the wizard. We're off to see the little bit of all for. Thanks everyone for coming up, Super FamicCon this weekend, to see this panel. I'm going to encourage a co-host of Retronauts. Whitney also is Chris Simms, occasional guest on Retronauts, right here in Greensboro, North Carolina. Thank you, God. And we're here with a special guest.

this weekend, none other than Luke Edwards, one of the stars of the movie The Wizard. Hey, guys. Yay! So, Luke, thanks for, thank you for having to me. You were telling Chris that we don't come to a lot of gaming conventions, is that right? I don't. This might be my second. Oh, really?

So, you know, when you were recording, you know, filming the movie 28, 29 years ago, did you did you stop at any point I think, you know, I'm going to be sitting at. a haulful of people talking about this movie 30 years ago. I didn't have, that thought didn't occur to me. The, you know, the possibility is out there, I suppose, but

no, I never thought never thought it would be. Well, just to add a little context here before we get started, I'm sure everyone here in the room knows what the wizard did, but of course it was a film produced back in the late 80s. I don't know, was it like bankroll

by Nintendo or something? There was a very strong presence of Nintendo, specifically Nintendo, not just video games in that movie. Yeah, well they did bankroll it, they were involved. At that time, you know, product involvement

with film was way, way different. So they you know, they were involved, but they weren't involved to the degree that companies are now. Right. So they, you know, in a lot of instances, they just handed off products and said,

So, like, find the way to get this into the movie. Include this, and we'll be happy. Which is how you end up with kind of weird things like Nintendo games and arcades. I mean, some of that existed to a certain degree, but not quite a bit of a degree that you see in this movie. Right, right. Yeah, when you watched it last night, you know, I remember that, you know, all of the cabinet games that those games didn't exist. Right. So I guess some did.

I mean, maybe you could find contra. Yeah, there was something called the Play Choice 10 where they would take, you know, the NES games and they would put them into like a pay-for-time system where you could try them out. It was basically like before video rentals existed. Right. Video-game rentals, that was how you went and tested.

Do I want to play the new Mario game? Right. But not all of those games necessarily showed up in the Play Choice 10 system. So, you know, you're someone who's catalogued this kind of thing and chronicled it. You notice some little things like, oh, they took some liberties there. But that's okay.

You know, Back to the Future, too, had wild gunmen. And that's not the real wild gun in that movie. So I think a certain level of Hollywood bakery is expected with this sort of thing. Definitely. I mean, you know,

video games at that time were still, you know, pretty marginal. I mean, it was getting big, but it was, you know, still pretty marginal. Yeah, they were kind of

climbed their way back from the end of defeat. Right. So it was, yeah, this was kind of a big moment for video games in a way.

It was a major Hollywood production focused around video games. And not in the sense of Tron, where it was all sort of fancable like, the idea of video games, but actual video games, actual companies. And, you know, not only that, but it's sort of their role that they had in kids' lives at that point.

There is an element of, you know, very genuine passion with the, I think, the kids you see in the movie, I think that everyone out there who's watching the movie in 1989 could be like, I get that. I relate to that. I know that game. Exactly. I love that game. We were on the way over here this morning, and Jeremy and I were talking, and I told him that, watching it again a couple days ago

it actually makes the movie feel less commercial because it's not just one company's games it's not just like people only talk about Nintendo. You know, you've got Teenage Vintage Turtles in there you've got Double Dragon in there obviously Super Mario Bros. 3 is the big centerpiece but it does, it weirdly feels

very realistic to being a kid and you don't know about corporate divisions, you just know about being a thing. And I thought that was actually really cool in retrospect because you would never see that to that. Right, that's the, you know, the difference between then and now is it would be strictly Nintendo products, right, if they were involved. Yeah, we were talking about Rickett Ralph and how that's the closest you can come.

But even in that movie, like the major games that you see are all, like they're all fake games made up by Disney. So it's not like you, it's not like you're like, oh yeah, Rickett Ralph, I'm familiar with that character and like him. It's like, this is the first time you're encounter him. So look, do you want to talk a little bit about sort of the role that you played in the movie and just kind of, I guess, the experience of playing Jimmy in the wizard? Because you're kind of the main character in a sense, but not, you don't have, well, obviously, like, the biggest speaking role or anything, but you're always, like, the movie starts with you and it's about your journey to Hollywood, kind of, I guess, seen through the eyes of Fred Savage's character. Right. Yeah, I mean, it is, it is kind of, you know, it's kind of strange. It's the titular character, but then I say, you know, to make ten things in the whole movie.

And, you know, it's, it is mostly about the world around him as he's, you know, it's not, you know, he's kind of passive. So, yeah, it was my first, you know, feature role, first studio film. I was eight years old I had been acting for very long maybe a year and so it was a big job of course also for me at the time I was really oblivious

to pretty much everything and anything that didn't involve G.I. Joe's or you know Transformers or whatever so I didn't really know what was going on it didn't really mean that much to me you know, at the time.

It was until kind of later than, you know, the perspective of who these people are and, you know, the scale of everything. So, for me, you know, as a kid, as an eight-year-old, it was fun. We tripped around them, you know. We went around to all around Nevada and, you know, we're in California

and, of course, L.A. and stuff. And we got to do fun stuff pretty much every day, you know. making movies is often really tedious. There's a lot of downtime. But when we got to do stuff, it was fun stuff. So, you know.

So you say there was a lot of downtime. Did you feel that downtime playing video games? I mean, since the movie is about video games, I'm wondering, like, did Nintendo supply, you know, the craft trucks and everything with, like, video games you could go play while you're waiting for your food? I only wish.

Well, they kind of, you know, cruel thing about being a kid actor is when you have downtime you have to go to school right you're only required to three hours of school every day which is like a lot less school but when you're working it into a you know nine and a half ten-hour workday most of the free time you get you you know you're in the in the school room with the set to her so so when you think back on production of The wizard, you mostly think about homework. It was a lot of that.

There were, you know, all the times, all the instances in the film were my character is playing in a video game. It was all a tape. And it was all the TV and a VCR and a tape of someone else playing, which is, you know, kind of cruel experience for an eight-year-old. But there were times where we were shooting in all. arcades. And so the downtime when we were in arcades

was great, because then I could play games. And they would open up the front of the game. So I could just, you know, hit the dip switch right. Yeah. Free play, basically. So when you were playing arcade games on film, was that actually

do playing? Because I know one of the famous anecdotes for movie War games is that Matthew Broderick was very, very method actor, really went out and learned how Gallia so he could be an expert. I'm sure that was like really hard work for him. Getting good at Gallup.

That's research. But, you know, so something he's actually playing, he was like, I want to be convincing, I want to play well. Did you have that opportunity or was that all still tape? Not at all. I would have loved to get really good at lots of games. But, you know, I think that they're, you know, I think they're thinking about it was that we don't want him to, like,

space out, you know. on gaming and be focusing on what we're here to do. That makes to make a movie. So yeah, it was almost every instance, you know, where it's on screen, it was a tape. I understand why they would do that, because you don't want to get actors distracted by playing a video game.

You don't want to get absorbed. But I feel like for the character of Jimmy, like Jimmy is absorbed by the video games. Is it more difficult to pretend to be playing in that context? That was the challenge. Well, you know, not only that, but

whoever they had whoever they had taken playing the game, in my opinion, was not good. And I'm just sort of a captive audience. I have to watch this person. In my mind, make mistakes.

You know, and like, screw it up. But, you know, I'm going, like, I could do this better. But, of course, that's, you know, nobody's actually focusing on what the, you know, character was doing in the game. So it was a challenge. It was a challenge. It was hard. It was, you know, frustrating. I'm actually really curious as to what the audition process was like. Because, like you said, you know, maybe 10 lines in the movie, the word California has said quite a bit. Maybe you went in and read for the part. Like, what did you read?

That's, you know, I actually don't have a lot of memory of that process. I know that it was, I'm friends with the director, Todd, and we see each other on a kind of, you know, similar basis. He's talked a lot about it, and what he has to say is really interesting, because he has memory of it, my memory of it is so kind of spotty, you know, eight years old. I do remember that he, you know, it was a difficult process for them and I remember that he said that when I came in to read that I was kind of different from all the other kids

in that I was able to be really focused you know, like a lot of, you know, at eight years old you're often hyperactive for, you know, the thing that I came in and did was just, you know, laser focus on, you know, whatever they were trying to, whatever the material was, which I don't think we used material from the film because there's nothing to, you know, and that's a really common practice is, you know, taking material from other stuff or, you know, maybe even writing stuff specifically for the audition. You know, that happens a lot.

When I did a true detective a couple years back, and they actually had me read Collins, Colin Farrell's scene for the audition. Really, really intense emotional scene, you know, where he's like talking with his ex-wife about his son. It's really heavy and intense. And so that's what they had me read. And it had nothing to do with the character I ended up playing. But, you know, it's a common practice.

They do that, especially with shows like that, because they don't want to release any vital information about the show. Right. Yeah. So. So you mentioned that this was, you know, your first major feature rule, and you'd only been acting for about a year before that. How did you get into acting in the first place and what specifically brought you to this movie? So I started, I ended up going to a school, you know,

in the Sanctrine Valley, I went because basically the classes were free. My mom had traded one of the owners of the school a massage for, you know, a class. And they kind of said to me, hey, you want to go to an, you know, acting school? And I was, like, I don't know, sure. And I, you know, I went and had a great time. You know, it was really fun. As a kid, you know, I mean, acting kind of can come naturally because it's just plain make-believe, right? I mean, you know, who is a kid doesn't enjoy that or just do that, you know, naturally?

So I went and I had a great time. And, you know, since I've learned that this school is actually quite accomplished. Like everybody as a young actor went through this school. Leonardo DiCaprio and River Phoenix and on and on just, you know, basically everybody, including, you know, to this day, a lot of our current movie stars are, as kids went through this, through this school. So, and the people who own the school, the teachers and the owners also managed kids. So if they, you know, if they saw somebody who they felt at, you know, something they would set up with an agent and, and coach the actual auditions and coach us for the auditions which is very, very rare

and yeah, so I honestly just kind of fell into it I never had any intention or thought of being an actor. And so this movie specifically did someone come to you and say we think we have a world perfect for you or did your agent come to you and say

hey we heard about this movie and we like to travel for it? You know, very much the kind of standard you know, Hollywood audition process. It's a fairly big film, a big feature role. There's not all that many

for kids, you know. So it was, you know, it was a call that every kid of that age is going to go on, you know, and of course it's a video game movie. Everybody's like, you know. Did you know going into it that it was going to be so focused around video games that it was going to be the debut of

Super Barrier, but there's three, the biggest game of the year. Not at all. I didn't really nothing about it. I mean, you know, they don't tell you much. You know, they give you some into real. I feel like, Benz, the age of, like, seven or eight years old is when you're just starting to figure out that actors exist, like, the people you see on TV aren't real. So, you're at that age, and then all of a sudden you're on a set with a director and with a

cameraman doing multiple takes. Obviously, you've stuck with acting, but did that kind of... Is it possible for like an eight-year-old to be suddenly disillusioned? Like, did that happen at all? I didn't, you know... Like I said, I was kind of an oblivious kid. You know, I really lived in my own, like a world. And so I didn't really know...

I didn't watch the long of years. I didn't really know who Fred was. I kind of knew of his, you know, celebrity, but I didn't, you know, I just didn't really have any connection to him. I definitely didn't know who Bo was. The only guy that I really knew was Christian, and I'm not sure, but I think it was because of Heather's. That would be Heather's.

Which I don't know why. If I was watching that around a sudden, I don't know why I was watching it. You know, it was a little while doing what I was going on a second of you know what I was saying. I don't know, I may be wrong about this, but I knew, I remember specifically that I knew Christian, I knew who he was, and I remember interacting with him and he was super, super nice to me, and I remember being very like, oh, that's, you know, oh, cool, he's a nice guy. He, you know, since he doesn't always seem like a nice guy in his character, so he's a really nice guy, ah, cool.

Oh, yeah, you kind of touched on the fact that you had a very small speaking role in the movie, despite you of the fact that you have so much screen time. Was that like something you had trouble dealing with? Like was it frustrating? Did you want to speak more? Or were you just kind of happy to go along with, you know, the assignment that gave you of? That's a funny question.

I don't know if I can... I, you know, I was pretty happy doing my own thing. You know, I was definitely aware that the other, performers were doing a lot and mostly I was just kind of standing there but you know I think that I was really you know like I said I was I love to be in my world so I was really good at just kind of entertaining myself there is so much downtime on sets there's so much time where you kind of have to just you know do your own thing and I was always really good at that I was always like that's fine, leave me alone

I'll, you know, I'm going to write stories in my head about you know, dragons and stuff I'm cool it's really funny when we were watching the movie last night and there's a part where we're in the

casino and gambling and stuff and I'm watching and I'm remembering that you know I'm kind of standing there I'm sure my direction was to walk off with everybody and I didn't and I'm sure I was just spacing out and you know Fred kind of

pushes me you know he was kind of like it's our cue like let's go and you know I was just I really as a kid I really you know I was totally in my own world which you know it fit that's perfect for that movie it kind of just worked I you know I didn't have to do a lot you know, outside of my, you know, my kind of natural thing. So what was it like when the movie came out? Like, did, like, did you go back to, like, school? And then kids were like, hey, you're in the, you're in Super Mario's Three movies. Yeah.

There was a lot of interaction with kids. They, you know, they all wanted the secrets and the, you know. I was promised a copy of Super Mario. of three by the producers. They never gave me more. All these built on lies. So I never had to play the game. So when I did go back to school and kids were like asking me about the game, you know, that's hard.

It was like, well, I haven't actually played it, so I can't tell you. It was really funny. My neighbors at the time got the game, were playing it, and got all the way to the last stage world. Couldn't beat it. And so they called me over. And they were like, can Luke come over and help us, basically? And I still had never played the game. They read your press. and I did

so the first time I ever played the game was playing the last level just really hard and I just died immediately and they were so disappointed and then you know I was kind of like well what do you want

you know it's a movie right man you know this is It was a much more innocent time, the early 90s. There's a lot of that movie that, you know, watching it yesterday, I was like, this would not fly in a movie right now. But even the Super Mario Brothers 3 thing, you know,

when the movie was produced, that game was already out of Japan. It took like a year and a half to come over here. So anyone who knew that could have imported a copy and been able to play it, but no one knew that back then because we didn't have the internet. We didn't have this easy communication. So, yeah, seeing Super Mario Bros. 3 for the first time of The Wizard was kind of, like, for all the Mario

fans and Nintendo fans, it was kind of religious. They were like, wow, finally, a sneak peek of this game was coming out in a few months, but you know, in Japan they've been playing it for a year already. Wow, that is so funny. I didn't, I never knew that. I had a couple really close friends

in grade school who were Japanese, and they had, or, you know, Japanese American, they would have the games. I had it But it was all, you know, obviously all in, you know, Japanese. So through them, I actually got to play cool games. Not necessarily through doing this movie strange. Yeah, you mentioned the casino scene, too.

Like, there's a bunch of stuff in this movie that I look at it. I'm like, they wouldn't be able to do this in a movie today. You know, like the private eye who is constantly after. Jimmy and trying to take him back. Like, that just doesn't play well now. Oh, man. It's hard to imagine. He is so creepy.

And it's really, like, it's so, so inappropriate. You know, at so many instances, on so many levels. But, you know, it just, it really was a much more innocent time, you know, where that kind of stuff flew. I had forgotten that there was a scene in that movie where you think. I think a man is going to get beaten to death by four truckers. And then he just wasn't going to see him with a blackout. Right. But yeah, right.

It's the most like, you know, they punched it once in the high and that was it. We're done here. That's the code of the trucker. I remember seeing that movie and I remember seeing the previous horror and I remember seeing it when I was a kid. And it made such an impression. I don't know if I've watched that movie until... until a couple days ago. And you said you watched it last night.

But things about that movie stuck with me, like the line, he's got all 96. I was like, I wish I could own 96 video games. Only a wizard could give me that kind of magic power. As you moved away from it and as time went on, and it kind of became this thing that kids who were growing up remembered so vividly. Like, did you go back and revisit it ever?

I did. I, you know, I have a strange relationship with every movie I've ever done. I don't particularly enjoy watching my own work. Todd, the director, actually forbade me from watching day leaves, you know, which is kind of a, sometimes a common practice, some guys don't do it at all. he you know he kind of as I said forbid me

forbid me from doing that and that practice kind of stuck with me and so I don't know it's kind of a strange there are a lot of actors

who are this way they're you know actors who have never seen the films that they've done so I have it's not that extreme for me but I kind of have a similar

relationship where I don't I don't really enjoy watching them in the work I enjoy the films I enjoy other people's work in the films but I don't enjoy watching my work. So, you know, as in a recreational way, I don't think I would ever revisit any of my films.

There, you know, projects, anything. The times where I do watch it is, you know, at, you know, events. And almost every time there is one, I say, I've seen this movie a lot and I might duck out. And then I sit and I watch the beginning of the movie and I get sucked in. And I, you know, the truth is, I actually really like this movie. It's not the greatest, you know, pieces of drama ever made, but it's fun. And it's, there's so much cool, you know, for me, I mean, I grew up in the 80s.

There's all this nostalgia, you know, that I get sucked into. And so anyway, I end up watching the movie every single time. I have a great time and I laugh, you know. it's a fun movie it's fun and it's very memorable and a thing that I really appreciated about it is it's kind of in that

weird overlap period between like movies that are obsessed with technology and video games and hopping on trends and getting to the new thing and then this weird like 70s aesthetic where there's truckers and there's like kids going on an adventure and like evil adults

chasing them down it's a really interestingly made and plotted movie, I think. Yeah, it really is. I, you know, I love I love like kid adventure movies.

That's probably my favorite, you know, genre, subgenre of films. You know, like, for me watching Stranger Things have been super fun because it's like, you know, tapping into that thing, which, you know, there's not all that much of it.

So, yeah, that, you know, that dynamic of like kids going off in the world and you know scary world and having adventures I love that you know I don't know for me it works yeah and I think there's a little bit of the wizard and stranger thing season two

I think you can see it they don't they never made an direct reference a lot of you know a lot of shows have I don't know if you won't know that show Goldbergs yeah they've made a couple direct wizard references

Anyway, Stranger Things never has, but I keep watching for it. You know, it's a little early for it. I think that the Stranger Things is set in 1984, so it predates the movie of it. That's right. There's a lot of hanging out on arcades in that movie. Yeah, that's awesome. I mean, it definitely has that sort of same 80s vibe that you get because arcades were a thing back then. It was a place where people went to hang out and, you know, compete against each other and play around and, you know, just waste time.

those don't really exist anymore and certainly not in the same form that they used to so yeah you get that like that slice of light it's also you know a time before amber alerts before cell phones before you know a point where it would have been actually probably pretty easy for Jimmy's parents to track him

down and you know for his face to show up all over the news and on people's phones and so forth so yeah it's very much like not even just with the video games but but it really fits in a certain time and I think it's a great sort of, you know, like a time geeks

that way, I think what he'd call it, like a time capsule. Yeah, totally. Yeah, I mean, it's a very specific, you know, little piece of time. Yeah, I love, you know, in stranger things, the high score thing, you know, like that, at a time,

that was really an important thing. You know, I guess it's sort of been replaced now with, you know, competitive or professional, you know, kind of gaming, but, you know, there was a time where it was like, yeah, the high score. I'm the coolest kid. Yeah, absolutely. The last job I had, my boss

was someone who got into the games industry and the games press because he was a high score champion on, like, Defender and stuff in the early 80s. So, yeah, like, that was, that was a career move. It was something you could build a life on. Right. Once upon a time. You know, fame. Exactly. Or if you had the same three initials of someone who had done, or you could probably sneak in there. There's no way to verify that. Hey, yes, yes.

You can just go around all the games and find the, you know, I'm like, oh, that's me. Yeah, that's me. I go by a different name. It's a very, the very, a little-school thing to tell people like that. Or maybe that's just me. Maybe I just revealed that I was a liar of the child. With Domino's week-long carry-out deal, you can carry out large, three-topping pizzas, and now, medium-threat-hand-made pan pizzas for $7.99 each. It's fantastic news.

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I see Fred, you know, around town on a, I don't know, semi-regular basis, just in the sense that we run into each other. Friends are a real successful comedy director these days. Okay. Yeah. He's done, and it's very cool. He's done a lot of great shows, always selling in, stuff like that. So I kind of look, you know, I'll say that I look forward to the time

when I can, you know, work with him again, collaborate with something. I talk with Todd because he's, you know, we go to events sometimes together, and he is such a super, super nice guy and, you know, has always been really complimentary. but other than that I don't really see anybody I have kind of a weird story about Jenny I haven't seen her in probably 20 years it had been a long time since I had seen

her since we did you know did the film together you know just to go a little deeper Fred at the time was a huge star probably the height of his fame and he knew it and so he was

you know he was a kid star he was the biggest kid star in the world and he behaved as you might anyway so Jenny and I got on really well and we kind of like teamed up

You know, so anyway, I felt like I had a bond with her, and I didn't get to see her after, and it was a long, long, long time. Anyway, I was at a party in L.A. in Los Angeles when I was like, 19, and I was really drunk, and it ended up being her house. So, so I, so I saw her and we had a moment of like, oh my God, you know, so good to see you and, you know, however, I was drunk. And so, it wasn't, it wasn't quite the reunion that I was hoping for or that I have been hoping for, for, since our film. So, you know, she's a big kind of rock style these days. you know she's maybe a little hard to get to I don't know anyway I hope to one day

run into her again and have the you know the real reunion but it hasn't happened yet say a little these years later it's probably been interesting for you kind of you know just as an observer to watch some of your co-stars like their celebrity grow like with Jenny and for others to kind of subside and kind of you know banish from the limelight I don't know, like what has that experience

been like for you to just kind of watch you know to chart the careers of all these people you've worked with not just in the Wizard but you know

in other films like you know and just see how celebrity is kind to some people and not so kind to others it's bizarre it's

bizarre doesn't even capture it it's so so strange um Fred's brother Ben um was around the set, he was on, you know, he was around for,

I had my memory, basically the whole shoot, Ben was closer to my age, and so Ben and I got along really well. We played together a lot on set. Of course, after Ben, you know, did Boy Me's World. And so, you know, he has his whole career, you know, it's great to watch and it's also it's very very strange

you know I got Christian Stader has you know he was a huge movie star at the time and has kind of then had a lull in his work and then shows up on Mr. Robot

and it's such a good show I have two friends who are former acting students who are on the show I love the show and they get to kind of see all my friends work again. It's like, oh man, that is so much fun. But it's really strange. I have a former student on Stranger Things. I get to see her in it, you know, in this second season.

Oh my God, it's amazing to see, you know, people who have been trying to do it, you know, right through and get a, you know, get a job where it's, you know, very visible. But yeah, it's bizarre. You know, I worked with Christian Bale, you know, before. you know, he was, before he was Batman, basically. He was still a star at the time. I mean, his first job was a huge job, so he's like a known guy, but

obviously when you become Batman, everything changes. You're bad there forever. For better or worse. But yeah, I mean, you know, so many people over the years that I've gotten I've been lucky enough to work with

and yet to watch their it's a rollercoaster you know this work in this industry for everybody it's just a super rollercoaster you know people who people who manage to continue to work

they beat the odds it is it's insane you know well you continue to work you've been in stuff like true detective do you look back to your career and have any particular favorite standout or what you've done anything you really feel like yeah this is what i was really aiming for um i feel like i'm still uh i feel like i'm still working towards that um yeah i mean there's there's stuff that i enjoy more than than others for me

the first season of tree detective was one of the best shows i had ever seen maybe the best So for me to get to do this, that show was, was, you know, unbelievable and to be the killer, you know, it's unbelievable, unbelievable, unbelievable job. The, you know, this second season wasn't all that well received. The role that I actually played was, I mean, we shot this whole sequence, all this stuff. oh my god they had me stab a watermelon all this stuff that we did and shot none of it ends up in the show so it was like you know it was a great job amazing and also super disappointing you know ultimately so I don't know I mean there's stuff that I'm proud of there's stuff that you know I've been really lucky to be a part of and I am still working towards you you know, that thing, the career defining thing,

if you want to call it that. Well, it's good about to be too early. You know, right, right. A lot of my work recently has been also stuff behind the scenes producing and writing and stuff like that. So I feel like I'm also still working

towards, you know, creating something, you know. Well, you mentioned earlier that, you know, when you were on the site you'd be constructing these stories about dragons and stuff? Is that, you're finally finding an outlet for those ideas? That precisely, yeah.

The, you know, creating of stories has always been going on, and, you know, more recently learning to put it down on paper and put it out in the world. You said that you'll get sucked into watching the movie, and I'm really curious if you have, over the times you've watched The Wizard, and obviously seeing it with, saying it with a bunch of people who are here to see the, watch this movie, I'm not saying here to see the wizard, that sounds very Wizard pause.

I'm sure that's a really cool experience but is there a moment do you have like a favorite part of the movie from seeing it now as an adult? All my favorite parts of the movie are the most ridiculous parts of the movie

which plentiful. Yeah I was going to say there's a lot of them I get such a kick out of the businessmen who are that's like the first hustle

those guys are ridiculous those characters are it's insane two like guys in suits who are playing you know playing a cabinet game and like very serious about it you know

like Fred comes up and like yeah yeah you guys are okay and the guy's like okay I'm like a pro like what's that never existed you say that

but my dad when I was a kid I took my my dad lived in Ohio I lived in South Carolina I took my Nintendo up one summer when I left

he bought a Nintendo and only bought one game and it was Dr. Mario and he would play it every day he loved Dr. Mario and was very intense about it

he did not look joyful playing it was very intense it was more for it I haven't had my notes that I was taking while I was prepping for this and watching the movie What kind of world is this Where businessmen wager on video games at a truck stop

It's crazy When you have these sort of pocket drive And you sort of need to propel the story forward Right, right Sort of, you know Kind of fudge reality a little bit To get the story to where it needs to be Right, well it has to be some characters

That have some money Right? It can't just be kids you have some, you know, like, oh, bet you some quarters that's not going to work. It's got to be like, oh, we can really take them for some... I just, you know,

it's maybe not even so much the creation of that character, but the way that those guys played the character. It's just absurd. And I love it. I love it. I think the thing that I really

appreciated about that movie, and the thing that makes it feel less like a big advertisement for Nintendo, because, I mean, obviously, there's the power of love scene, there's the Mario 3 scene, there's, uh, Bo Bridge is getting obsessed with a, um, the Teenish Generals game.

But, like, a thing I genuinely appreciate about storytelling in that movie, video games aren't the solution to the problem at all. Like, it's not what Jimmy wants. It doesn't fix anything at the end. And I kind of love that, because again, I don't think that would ever happen today.

Like, somebody from who didn't know would be like, so, Mario's going to heal this child, right? And that doesn't happen. He wants something completely different. Yeah, we talked a little bit about that last night, that, you know, is, like, what kind of person is Jimmy? You know, we talked a little bit about autism,

and, you know, that Jimmy, you know, is he autistic a little bit or a lot, Or is he just, you know, kind of PTSD? Does he just kind of have, you know? And, you know, Joe kind of said, it's probably a little bit of both. I think that's really right on, that it's probably a little bit of both. So it's really interesting that, you know, they go on this wild adventure and he wins this thing. And ultimately, Jimmy's probably mostly the same.

You know, he's kind of, you know, there's some cathartic act. where he's able to kind of like let go, you know, of this thing that you know is kind of haunting him but also he's still in his world, you know, he's still you know, that. So I, you know,

it's, I don't know, a lot of people have asked me like, what's the, you know, what happens after? What's the sequel? What, you know, what happens to all these people? And, you know, the reality is that Jimmy is probably, you know, he probably continues to live a pretty similar, you know, experience, which is kind of, you know, it's, I don't know, it's not exactly

a happy ending, you know. It's a little dark. It is, but it's, I feel like, you know, if Jimmy is, you know, on the autistic spectrum, like, the way this movie handles it is so much better than you usually see now in Hollywood where autism becomes a superpower and you have like Sherlock or the good doctor or something where, like, someone has superpowers because they're on the spectrum. And that's not how it works. Like it, you know, that sort of thing is much more like what Jimmy experience is where, you know, it just kind of disconnects him from the rest of the world. So, yeah, like that was something that really kind of caught my attention as I was rewatching it.

Like, you know, with more of an awareness of things like that, you know, issues like that. Like, I'm kind of surprised that a movie of this vintage handled it the way it did. It's not, it doesn't really make light of it. Like, people are mean to Jimmy. Like, you see that in real life. that's how people act, you know, towards over the autism. Yeah, yeah.

So it's kind of cool sometimes, but, like, you don't, it doesn't feel like the movie itself is picking out of Jimmy. It's the people within the movie, like the people around it, who make us life hard. Right, yeah.

Yeah, well, you know, so, you know, the awareness of that has changed so much, you know, we didn't, in 88, have, you know, any awareness of the spectrum, right? Like, that's a very, you know, it's a pretty new concept.

when we were working on the film in creation of it they referenced Tommy a lot so that's you know there were these kind of similar characters but yeah the way it was handled you know the way that those people lived in the world in the way that they were treated

it was just so different at that time you know the understanding of it was you know minimum, at best, and I still feel like for a movie that's so definitely pinned to a specific time, like to, hey this is right before Super Mario

Brothers 3 comes out, the storytelling and the acting, like, all hold up really well. Like, it was, no offense. It was very surprising to me to watch it just a couple days ago and be like, oh, okay, like, yeah, this all holds up even in the context of, hey, the Power Gloves, out now if you want to go by that. And you get that soundtrack,

which is very much like, you know, drum machines 1988. Very much. Oh, man. I love it personally. Oh, I love 80s music, but it definitely says this is from that period of. Oh, yeah. Oh, so specific. There's new kids.

There's two new kids on my own songs. It's so awesome. Send me an Angel, which is such a great, Brad, the best song. I love the music. so much. That's definitely part of why I get sucked in the movie. Was it Simeon Angel also in the movie

Rad, the BMX movie? Yeah, okay, that's what I thought. Because I was like, I remember this being in a different 80s movie about a very popular thing. Well, was it a montage? That's what I want to know. Was it also a montage song?

Well, it's in the dance number where they're dancing on BMX bikes, which I think is, is It's not a montage, but it is close enough, I think. I love that this movie has a montage. It has a training montage with Nintendo games. That never struck me until yesterday as I was preparing for this, and I was like, I can't believe they're doing the montage scene,

and they're playing like Double Dragon. And the game counselor, who shows up... That's probably used in binders? He's buried. That's so awesome that that was a profession in 88. I think there were, you know, a million kids, he's played video games, and their parents were like, I see this here in your Nintendo Power, you can call these guys, that's going to be you something. And then the Internet came along, and once again, the Internet has ruined us all.

I mean, those games were so hard. I don't know if I, I can't remember specifically, but I think that I called in at a certain point, because I was like, I'm stuck, I can't, you know, what do I do? and there was no internet. There's no, you know, if your friends haven't played the game, what do you think? Pull them? And God damn, it was expensive.

Yeah, it was like 75 cents in there? Yeah, it's crazy. It's crazy. So the most important question, I think, you know, we have to ask you, is looking back at the wizard, all the games in there, which was your favorite? Man, contract.

I was always so partial to the contra. I, you know, man. I destroyed that game. That's great. I think most people would expect both four or another's three because that was kind of the big game. But, yeah, Contra, the NES version of that game is better than the arcade version.

It's one of those rare experiences where owning it at home was better than playing it in the arcade. Oh, totally. Well, it was a hard game, and it was pretty important to have your secret thing in 30 lives. in order to get to the end.

And man, if you could figure that out, if you were in on that secret, poorly kept secret, the game was so fun. Oh, my God. I mean, you know, I'm going to go home and play it, play it. I'd love the thing so much. Love. Do you have any other favorite anecdotes or experiences

for working on the lizard? I mean, you've kind of touched on things, and you said, you know, most of your memories are homework. But I feel like, you know, surely there must have been, you said you went to a lot of different places in Nevada and North California. Just like, I don't know, like, in all of the time you spent filming, like, what really stands out to you? It's like, I love this moment.

I love you doing this. You know, being on the back lot at Universal was really fun. You know, I had taken the tour. I had written the King Kong ride, which is so, so awesome. it's gone now but it was it was really great um i mean you know that's that's definitely one the coolest things about working on a you know big studio film is you know you get to kind of be around all the stuff that's happening so so back lot of universal was was great and and you know getting to go down into the ride and uh you know they all the weird little stuff they do they

you know, have covered lights and flames and all this stuff. To get to go down into it and actually see it was really awesome. You know, that and being in arcades. And, you know, the times when they would actually

let me play video games. It's the best. I don't know. There's so much stuff that comes up for me when I watch the movie. I mean, every frame almost. That, you know, is a memory. It triggers, you know, all kinds of stuff.

You know, all the people that were around. I don't know. I mean, I should probably watch the movie at some point and just take notes, you know, of all this. The annotated wizard. Right. You know, of all the weird experiences and tribute people and, God, I mean, you know, just so much fun stuff. The guys, you know, the guys who, you know, the guys who. who track us down and beat up Fred.

They were sort of supposed to be, you know, punks. Those guys were so nice. They were just, like, the nicest guys in the world, you know. I remember one of them was like a gymnast kind of thing, and he could just do a standing backflip. I was like, wow, that's the coolest thing ever. This guy, you know, this guy's amazing. And then, you know, roll the take.

were like enemies. Acting is weird. So how much of the movie was filmed on location around California and how much was filmed actually at Universal? All of it is basically on location in the sense that when we're on the back lot at Universal was supposed to be on the back lot and Universal.

Right. So if it's like the video armigan or whatever at the end? Which was on the, you know, it was on a stage. You know, they'd bet on... You've got like Wolfman out there. It's one of the Universal Monster. Yeah, right. You know, they did fudge a little bit.

The tour definitely doesn't go by that at that time. I didn't know. Everything's changed. But at that time, the tour never went by there. And, you know, this was like a, you know, back corner of the lot where nobody goes. But they, you know, they built out that whole thing. And it was, you know, I mean, it was super cool. Yeah, I know, yeah.

It was neat. There's need to be, you know, on the backline, that's right. That point, you know, the King Kong might burn down. It's really sad. Come on. Also, the earthquake ride. I remember the earthquake ride on that tour. So cool.

You're in, like, a train station, and, you know, earthquake happens. It all starts, like, falling apart. It's pretty cool. It's all gone now. All right, that seems like a great place to end. So thank you, everyone, for, to the panel. Thank you, Luke, for taking time.

I'm coming all the way here from, what, L.A.? Oh, yeah. Yeah, so it's a bit of a trip. I'm glad we can pick your brain a little bit about this movie. So just to kind of wrap up, you know, Retronauts podcast, you can listen to us weekly, actually more than weekly.

Download us on iTunes or atretronauts.com. We'd love to have you listen to us. It'd be awesome. Follow us on Twitter, do all that stuff, yada, yada, yada. What kind of projects are you working on now? Is there anything you can talk about or is everything like in development and secrets still? There are a couple things.

There's a couple small roles that I did as an actor for films that are coming out soon. One of them is called The Super with Val Kilmer actually. And yeah, it's kind of I have a small role, but it's eventful. Anyway, that's coming out soon. And

what else? I just a couple of the films that I have produced have come out recently. One of them is called Big Bear. Really fun comedy. You know, a bunch of my friends, really cool guys who wrote it and made it. It's a fun movie. It'll be on Netflix and

Essentially, it's kind of doing its, you know, thing right now. How else? I don't know. Maybe that's it. Okay. Yeah. Well, everyone should watch for those. And Chris, of course, thank you for coming and lining out the conversation.

Always a pleasure. Thanks again, everyone. Take care. Thank you very much. With Domino's carryout deal, you can carry out large three-topping pizzas and now medium three-topping handmade pan pizzas for $7.99 each. It's fantastic news. Cut, cut. Puns? You mean pans? Calling all panatics for two layers of cheese on crispy golden crust. So grab your

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back it. In New York, the wounded supervisor of a police detective killed by friendly fire was among the mourners attending his funeral. Detective Brian Simonson was killed as officer started shooting at a robbery suspect last week. Commissioner James O'Neill was among the speakers today at Simonson's funeral. It's a tremendous way to bear, knowing that your choices will directly affect the lives of others. The cops like Brian don't shy away from it. It's the very foundation of who they are and what they do. The robbery suspect in a man, police say acted as his lookout have been charged with murder. I'm Ed Donahue.