Rev Left Radio - Apartheid in the West Bank: Israeli Fascism, Settler Violence, & Palestinian Resilience

Episode Date: October 14, 2024

Jenna Martin, an independent journalist from Montana, joins Breht to discuss her recent visit to the West Bank. Together, they discuss her trip, how she got into the occupied territories amidst war, her first-hand account of the brutality and violence of the Israeli apartheid regime in the West Bank, settler violence against the indigenous Palestinians, how Palestinian's rely on creativity and community to fight back, the arbitrary nature of fascist violence employed by the IDF, the day-to-day indignities faced by Palestinians, Palestinians families in need that you can directly help in the links below, and much more.  Outro Song: "Wake Up" by Llunar Below are a list of verified donation links for families in Gaza in desperate need of help. If you have the ability, please consider helping. Put your love into action: Help Malak provide for her three small children in Gaza: https://chuffed.org/project/malak   Help Eman provide for her three small children in Gaza: https://chuffed.org/project/eman   Help Hamouda and her three small children in Gaza:  https://www.gofundme.com/f/support-hamoudas-family-in-gaza-crisis?lang=en_US&utm_campaign=fp_sharesheet&utm_medium=customer&utm_source=copy_link Help Samaher and her three children pay rent in Egypt and get their dad out of Gaza: https://www.gofundme.com/f/mwb37-help-me-and-my-kids?utm_campaign=p_cp+fundraiser-sidebar&utm_content=icons_only_var_c1&utm_medium=copy_link_all&utm_source=customer Help Marwan and Ahmed pay for school and  help their family still trapped in Gaza: https://www.gofundme.com/f/help-baby-judy-and-her-family-survive-in-gaza?lang=en_US&utm_campaign=fp_sharesheet&utm_medium=customer&utm_source=copy_link    

Hello everybody and welcome back to Rev Left Radio. On today's episode, we have on journalist Jenna Martin, who is based out of Montana, but has went to the West Bank to do on the ground first person journalism of the situation going on in the West Bank. So recently we had on my friend Willie Massey, who was a medical volunteer in Gaza, to get the perspective of what's going on in Gaza, and I thought this would be a really wonderful addition to that to have an on-the-ground journalist talk about their experiences in the West Bank. And Jenna has not only just returned from the West Bank recently, but

it's actually going back tomorrow from when this was recorded. We'll have to wait to drop it for reasons I talk about in the episode, because sometimes those initial border crossings can be fraught, and they do, you know, Google and do research. And so we felt it be best just to hold on to this episode just a tad until she's safely into the West Bank and with friends and contacts she has there before releasing this so as to not make her trip any more difficult than it already is. But I think it's a really important perspective and somebody who's doing real journalism in an era where we have corporate media pretending to be journalists but are just synographers for power. We do have on the ground, you know,

guerrilla reporters doing the real journalism in this world. And, and it's, It's worth highlighting their work. So that's what Jen is on today, and it's just a fascinating first-person perspective of how life in the West Bank is against the IDF, against the settlers, Palestinian humanity, their resistance to settler incursions, their generosity, and so much more. So it's a deeply moving and really important snapshot of what life is like in the West Bank. And, of course, in the show notes, we've put a couple fully vetted, go-fellee. fund me's in the show notes for organizations and for individuals that you can immediately turn around it and help. So you listen to this story. You see how inspiring the Palestinians are and you want to help. And if you are one of those people that do have some disposable income,

there's a direct and easy way to help immediately. And that will be in the show notes. Without further ado, here's my conversation with Jenna Martin on her journalistic foray into the West Bank. Enjoy. Well, my name's Jenna Martin. I'm a photojournalist based in Yellowstone County, Montana. I'm having to be on the show. Absolutely. It's a pleasure to have you on.

We're connected from our mutual friend Brandy, who is a longtime friend of mine and just a wonderful person, activist, organizer, et cetera, who just constantly, you know, doing good work. And so huge shout out to Brandy for, among other things, making this episode happen. But one of the reasons I was really excited to have you on is that we've recently had on a local from here in Omaha named Willie, who is a volunteer medical worker who went to Gaza and, you know, under, you know, as a medical volunteer and did a lot of good work there and came back to tell his harrowing story of what's going on in Gaza. And then with you, we have somebody who has just gone and returned from the West Bank. so we get that perspective as well

because obviously the West Bank and Gaza they're both under assault but in different ways and so there's probably, you know, there's significant differences between the two. So I thought it would be a good compliment to that episode and just a good standalone episode in its own right because I think it behooves us all to try to understand more what's going on and to get that first person on the ground perspective.

But before we get into your trip to the West Bank, can you just talk a little bit more about your background, maybe your connections or interests in the region and the conflict your political background or anything else you want to say about who you are so the audience can kind of orient themselves? Sure. You know, my, my fascination as a journalist, I feel like we always kind of, you know, you start off in journalism with a broad stroke. And then as you go on throughout your career, you kind of niche it down a little bit. My fascination has really always been with resistance movements, kind of the life cycle of resistance movements and how they work and how

they function. So even in the United States, you know, anytime there's anything popping up. So I just, I interviewed someone last week. That's part of the Stop Cop City movement. And I was very active with the Standing Rock protests out here in, you know, Montana, Wyoming, that area. So that's always kind of been my area is, is these kind of life cycles of resistance movements. And so, of course, anything related to Palestine fits right into that. That's, you know, kind of your ground zero for any kind of modern, truly modern resistance movement. So, yeah, I, ended up going, you know, I guess I would say I, I kind of did journalism for a while and then left and did some, a lot of political work because I had a baby and all the publications I wrote

for like shuddered immediately in 2020. So I went and worked some political work for a little bit since I had some expertise in that area. And then I came back to journalism. And now I'm back diluting this. And what a time to be back, I would say. Yeah, absolutely. So, yeah, Yeah, so you have a background in resistance movements and background in journalism. And so obviously this huge conflict breaks out. I mean, we're recording on October 6th, so pretty much one year out from the October 7 uprising. And it's just been chaos and hell ever since, as well as resistance and everything that comes with the conflict. Good, bad and ugly.

But what made you want to go to the West Bank in particular? So the why you went to the West Bank is there. And then also the how. I'm very interested in, you know, just like with our guest, Willie, who went to Gaza, like, it seems almost impossible from an outsider's perspective of how anybody would be able to even get in, I mean, in the, in the midst of the chaos. So why and how did you go to the West Bank? Well, I went to, I went to the West Bank as part of a, basically I went to three different areas. So I went to Egypt to interview you, um, Dazans who had been evacuated from Gaza earlier this year. And then now they're kind of stuck in Egypt. in this very weird refugee limbo. They're not even technically a refugee limbo because it can't register the right group. It's a whole thing.

But I went to Egypt in order to interview them. And then I jumped over through Jordan for very short trip, mostly to see a friend. And then I went up to the West Bank. And yeah, getting into the West Bank is, I mean, it's nothing on par with getting into Gaza. I'm sure what Willie went through was extensively more difficult than right now. I mean, essentially you have to be, you know, you're part of a government aid. service or you have to be smuggled in if you're going to get into Gaza. So that's entirely different. But the West Bank right now, it is pretty tight. I think the main

thing I have going for me is I look extremely, extremely American. I look very white American. And I, my entire routine tends to be playing up the dumb American, you know, role of, oh, surely there's not really anything going on. I'm just going to, you know, a nice little place. to see some tourist stuff. It's, you know, I, oh, that stuff on the news, it's not really going to bother me too much. So I tend to play up that angle quite a bit. And then when there is really intensive questions,

I'm also, I just kind of play dumb for half of it. I would say that there are some tricky things for a journalist to get in through the West Bank. And when it comes to that stuff, that, yeah, there's some issues there. Typically, as a journalist, going to, you know, foreign areas with conflict. you're supposed to bring, you know, this protective gear to bring. There's a lot of, you know, steps that you have to take. There's journalists credentials. And I personally tend to get stopped with that stuff.

So it's my own kind of personal risk to not bring a flat jacket and not bring a helmet. I would not give that advice to others. If everyone's listening, do not take my advice. Like, definitely, you know, consult some of the better journalists that you know or the organizations that have done this, you know, IFJ, that's the international. foreign journalists, the union and stuff. They have a lot better, more safer ways to do this. I've been doing it long enough. I tend to kind of have an idea of what works for me and that doesn't necessarily work for everyone. But yeah, it's a bit intense. I would say any last time I crossed,

they did take my phone. When I got it back, it was, the screen was shattered above where the camera is, which I thought was somewhat funny because I was packing a bag of camera equipment with me. That was completely okay to get through, but they, I think they're realizing that a lot of what's happening is getting through on cell phone that's getting through on social media. It's not professional photography. It's not professional video. It's the, you know, citizen video that's getting through. So I wasn't super surprised to get my phone back and have the little camera shouted above it. Yeah. So you're kind of doing this rogue guerrilla journalism in the area. And that's certainly, you know, in some ways it downplay certain risks of coming as like a full. you know, equipped journalists. But on other, on another hand, it has to have some other risks associated with it as a, as a mother as just a person. How did you analyze those risks? And what was the sort of pros and cons that you ultimately decided were worth going and doing that risk?

Well, that's a good question. I think the main thing is I have really good contacts in the area. So I'm not going as, you know, let's just see what happened. But that's not what's happening. I have really good contacts in the other area. I have fellow journalists in the area that I can text and say, hey, I'm looking across on this day, I'm going to this places, what do you have? Like, tell me, give me your updated, updated descriptions, updated advice and stuff.

So it's not like I'm, you know, I'm not completely rogue or, I mean, I wouldn't describe myself as rogue. I'm not completely, you know, flying, blind or anything like that. There's a lot of prep and a lot of, that's the kind of stuff that we have to do, right? All that preparation are contacts, where they are, where we're going,

how we're going to meet them, all the different contexts within that. So there's a lot of that going on. I think as a mother specifically, I kind of really love that question because that's an interesting one that people back home will constantly ask, right? Like you have children. You're going into conflict areas or, you know, war zones sometimes like, how do you do this with children? And my answer for that is, you know, there are times, there are times when I'm in an area. Like when I was in the West Bank, there's a perfect example of that where they would, the people I was with, they were telling me a story of someone that they had met a mutual friend that they had that in 2018, he was a nurse, he worked in operations and he was kind of rushing to this operation. He hit a Palestinian vehicle. He kind of lost control his vehicle, hit a Palestinian vehicle in front of him. The car in front of him hit an Israeli vehicle. The Israeli got out and shot them both on the spot, killed them both. And at the time, he had a one-month-old daughter at home. home. And, you know, I was like, can I talk to this mother? Because at this time, that was 2018, now it's 2024. Her daughter would be that right around six years old, seven years old,

which is the exact age of my middle daughter, right? And it's times like that where if I'm a mother and I'm saying in the United States and I have been through something horrific, I'm under occupation, I'm actively being bombed, and I need to tell my story, telling it to a 24-year-old journalist a shot of college who got the best grades or telling it to a 60-year-old weathered, you know, man who has been doing this his entire life and has no family at home. Those are both entirely different circumstances than telling it to a fellow mother with children the same age. That perspective, I think, is incredibly unique. I think as a parent, and especially when you're going to places where these are people with families that are trying to share their stories, I think that's really

useful. I mean, the best person they could possibly tell their stories to, of course, are local journalists right there in the area. But there's a reason why, right? There's a reason why, you know, those local journalists are getting attacked consistently and killed. And so there's a, that's kind of why some of the Western journalists are trying to get in and trying to help help show those stories as much as possible. But yeah, that's kind of why I think, as a parent, it's a little important. I would, I would hope that if I were in that situation, a mother somewhere across the world would come and, you know, give a little bit of time away from her family to help me and help my family share the perspective correctly. Yeah, absolutely. It's incredibly

laudable and beautiful in its own way. And yeah, you're completely right about the connection. Mother to mother, you know, as compared to, yeah, a young journalist student or, you know, downtrodden and sort of jaded old journalists. Yes. These are excellent, excellent people. But I mean, of course. I know that when I had kids, my entire perspective on the world completely changed. And ever since that, I feel like I've been extremely aware of that every day going forward. Definitely. Yeah, me too. You know, having three children myself, it's radically reorient your entire vision of the world.

And I think increases, at least for me, and it's certainly not exclusive. It's not like people that don't have kids can't also have this feeling, but this deep investment in the future, this deep selflessness, this deep concern, about not only my children, but then I immediately see my children and others. So when I see a Palestinian parent mourning the loss of their child, my heart breaks in a million pieces, and immediately I see my own child in that situation and see them and my children. And there's this deep human connection that occurs for me as a parent. And so, yeah, I can only imagine that that also in some part drives me. Yeah. And I think it's true because there's things that, like I said,

others, it's, you know, you're not saying that we have more empathy or anything like that, but it is a different type of, you're just kind of a different type of awareness. One of the people I spoke with in Egypt is a mother of three kids, and I asked her in depth about their school situation. How are they attending school? How is this possible for them? And she said, she was like, no one's really asked about the school as much as that. And I think that's because I have kids the same age that are in school.

Like, I think that's just something that was right there on the forefront of my brave. So, yeah, I do think it's important. Absolutely. Well, you mentioned your stop in Egypt on your way. We're going to get into your experiences and what you saw on the ground in the West Bank. But before getting there, you stopped in Egypt and you talked to, of course, Palestinians, Ghazan refugees who have been pushed out of the Gaza Strip by this ongoing Nakaba, this ongoing genocide. Can you talk about your experiences with the Palestinians there, what their struggles were and what their sort of situation of permanent limbo is for those that have been pushed out? Yeah. So the main issue when they were evacuated out to Egypt is they were given basically like a 40 day one time, you know, temporary visa. That was back with May 7th or whenever was it they evacuated. And they, it's long expired. So they have no way to update this visa to gaining residency. And with no residency, they have no way to work to get a bank account for their kids to attend a school. And then for many of them on top of that, because, because Palestinians, you know, Palestinian refugees, gosh, it was 19, I want to say during the first NACPA, 1948, 1949, they requested not to be included as part of the UNHCR, the refugee organization. So they're included as part of UNWRA, which, as we know, has been this major push to defund

and basically take away all their resources. So the Palestinians who have evacuated from Gaza into Egypt, they aren't even officially But in order to get anywhere, to get like any official help, you have to be kind of designated with the U.H or U.S.HCR and they can't be. And they can't get designated with UNWRA because that is a whole, you know, that's a whole situation that they don't have the resources for. There's some issues within the Egyptian government of kind of some red, you know, red tape that hasn't been, hasn't been solved recently. So they're in this kind of impossible situation. And they can't get outside help. They can't get, you know, bank accounts.

For two of the people that I talked to, they were students in Zagizig, so they're university students. And they did have residency because they were in Egypt on October 5th. They were there to study from the beginning of their semester. Everything happened. Of course, they've been trying to get their family out ever since. But even with residency, GoFundee doesn't allow bank accounts in Egypt. So they still have to have, you know, to make any money to.

support themselves and their families all of this is through go fund me they have to have family or friends or somebody in a country that go fund me allows to have a bank account and then getting it to them like they have to have it wired if they have residency if they don't have brevity that's the whole other thing um you know one of the woman she her mother lives in belgium and if she raises enough her mother has to take a physical flight to egypt to get her this money um and then many of them of course still have family in gala so they're trying to transfer that money back to Gaza, which is another, you know, 30% fee that gets taken out. So it is, it is just an impossible situation. You know, I think people tend to think that they've made it out of Gaza.

They are no longer being bombed. They're no longer in the midst of this violence. But as we both know that, you know, poverty and, you know, oppression and having no food and having nowhere to live, that is also extremely violent. So they're still in this really kind of a horrible situation where they just you know it's really tough they can't and there's not a lot to do so you know and i would say if people you know people are hearing this and they've got families in egypt that they are donating to and go fund meetings um they are able to get the money but there are so many fees there's so many steps involved that it's so complicated if you're giving a family five dollars or ten dollars please give them like 15 please try give them a slight bit more to cover these just the amount of

fees and work that they have to do to even get the money. Yeah. Well, we know that this is, you know, this is a conscious strategy on the part of Israel to impose so much suffering, so much death, so much unsafe that, you know, the idea is we either kill or dispel you. And this was the idea behind the Nakaba. And so we can talk about the second Nakaba or just the ongoing Nakaba. But either way, it's the same basic idea.

They are trying actively to push all the Palestinians that they can into Egypt. into Jordan, et cetera, so that they can make good on the idea of the greater Israel and then probably even expand from there, right? Yes, exactly. And you mentioned their living conditions. I was wondering if you could talk a little bit more about, you know, they don't have any amenities or any ability to have a bank account or any ability to even have a sort of personhood as, you know, even second class citizenship in this country because they've been stripped

of that for the time being. So it's hard to get a job, hard to go to school. What are these people like, where are they living? how are they living? What are their conditions of life right now? So right now they're living in, I mean, as affordable of conditions as they can, which are not good, right? These are pretty minimal basic living areas. It's whatever they can find and it's for their entire family. It's one room for the entire family. It's everything they can find. But on top of that, like you kind of have to remember, I mean, to even think about in America, right? We have, you know, we have a landlord problem here in America, I would say. And if you are paying your rent on time or if you do something even remotely wrong, the threat to double your rent, the threat to evict you is there. And it's immediate. And that's across America where we have actual, you know, there's there's some rules that we can take landlords to court, right? We are citizens. We have some rules. They are living in a situation where the landlords know they're Palestinian. And on the second, that they just decide they want to raise a rent. They can. They can kick them out. They can evict them. And there's more. refugees coming. There's more on the way. Like, it's not hard for them to rent out an apartment. So I think what does get to be difficult with people is when their rent is due. I mean,

you can definitely feel the stress. They're kind of panicking because if it's a minute late, 10 minutes late, if they don't have it, if anything happens, I mean, they're really, that's, that's a big weight that's over them. And then on top of that, it's a matter of trying to get places. They don't, they can't get a public transportation pass. They can't. get, like I said, you know, how do they work? How do they go to school? They can't work. They cannot work. They cannot have a bank account. They can't have their cell phone. They have to, like, buy new SIM cards. They have to buy, raise the money for a new SIM card. They can't just sign up for a phone service. So there's, there's quite a bit that, you know, makes their lives just

increasingly more and more difficult. For Sanaherd is one of the women, her children, are going to school. They can't enroll in school in Egypt, so they're taking online classes through Ravala, which fully depends on their internet connection. They have to find the books that they need. They have to travel to get these books that they need. And then sometimes, of course, there are things happening in Ramallah that closes school that they can't teach for the day or that interferes with their internet connection. So, you know, our youngest son is, I want to say eight years old and doesn't read or write in any language. He speaks, you know, Arabic fluently, but does not read Arabic yet.

And of course, her daughter, I asked, you know, what are you missing most of the school? And she just said, my friends, I don't, there's no classroom. There's no friends that I have here. And she misses her old friends and has no idea where they are, no idea. Yeah, absolutely brutal. I know that based on some numbers, over 110,000, 120,000, Gazins have been pushed into Egypt. And whenever there is a huge influx of, you know, desperate people fleeing miserable conditions,

that can often create various issues and tensions within the place that those refugees go to. And all the things you've already mentioned are a part of that. But, you know, how is the Egyptian government handling the situation? And are there tensions between, you know, Egyptians and these Palestinian refugees that are flooding into the area that you could tell? Yeah, there's absolutely tension there. And you're looking at, I mean, I think the first and foremost issues, you're looking at an Egyptian government that, A, has, said repeatedly, they do not want Palestinian refugees in their country permanently, because they are fully aware of what Israel is trying to do, right? It's the same reason that Jordan has said

they do not want Palestinians moving from the West Bank into Jordan. That's the whole existence of the Palestinian authority is basically as a political party between Israel and Jordan so that that won't happen. We know what's happening. But, and so you have Egypt who is basically saying they do not want Palestinians here permanently. So they're in a position of they don't want to give them resources. That would make it. So they would stay and not potentially go back to Egypt, but by not giving them those resources, they also make it really difficult for them to go anywhere else. You know, Samahar has applied for a visa to be with her mother in Belgium.

That was over a month ago. She has not heard back and don't, you know, she's not really holding her breath for that. There are others in, you know, the one by top two in Zagazig, who are trying desperately to apply to visas anywhere, aren't tearing back. so yeah I think you have there's that issue too but also the Egyptian government right now throughout this entire thing is an ally to the United States and in a sense also an ally to Israel so they've been acting as a mediator as part of these you know ceasefire negotiations there's a lot that's been going on and it's been getting more and more and more intense from

them as soon as Israel invaded Rafa and took over that crossing I mean they're in you know now they're basically violation of the Philadelphia Accords. So yeah, you've got you've got a lot of tension going on there. I'm, I don't know what role Egypt is going to play in this because they're really walking a fine line here.

Of course, the people getting into getting into Egypt in the first case and evacuating Gaza, as you know, that was run by a private Egyptian company. That wasn't even the Egyptian government. That was run by private travel agency that was charging $5,000 per person to cross the border.

So there was that issue in itself, right? They took, they were using every ounce of money they had to just get across the border and then had no money for, you know, literally any other kind of survival in Egypt. So, yeah, yeah, that's a, that's a touchy subject. I really, I really don't know where that is going to go because the Egyptian government has been very, very quiet about their strategy on that. And we've only been able to kind of go across what actions they are providing. And they have been extremely clear that they will be part of no negotiation that includes Israel occupying that Shiladelphia corridor, that Ropha crossing. So, yeah, I'm interested to see where that will go. But there is part of a bit of complexity there.

Yeah, Egypt and Jordan are definitely kind of in a similar situation with regards to their relationship with the United States. But there's also this growing contradiction between the people that live in those countries wanting their governments to act more robustly. But their governments having, as you said, to walk that. that line that they're trying to walk with maintaining their alliance with the U.S. And, you know, one of the things that you hear from Zionists, and you heard this a lot in the early days of this conflict, is, you know, this appeal to this idea that, like, why doesn't all these other countries take in the Palestinian refugees? You know, Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon, like, why are they so shitty about it? And obviously, that is a bad faith argument. It's not that Egypt and Jordan, Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon.

It's not like they're against the Palestinians, many Palestinians and the diaspora live in those countries. It's that they precisely know what Israel is trying to do. They're trying to shove Palestinians into their territory, leaving them with the burden so that they can clear out what they consider to be greater Israel and take over the whole of Palestine. So it's really this really disingenuous bad faith attempt to shift the burden away from Israel and onto these other countries. Why doesn't Israel stop killing and displacing millions of human beings? That's what we should always be answering them with. Always.

And it's, you know, when I was in Egypt, there's constantly, I had to, you know, driving all over, or I'm not driving, I'm riding in a car, you know, someone else is driving all over Cairo and Zagazagadig, I think is so funny because I was told, oh, it's a small town on the outskirts of Cairo. Zagazak is over 8 million people. As someone from Montana, not my concept of a small town. But, you know, every time they would ask, they're like, oh, are you just visiting, you know, for fun? Are you visiting tourism? And I, you know, kind of, you know, feel it out to see what how much I was going to say, but every time

they would ask, are you know, so you're visiting family, friends, and they were like, oh, from Egypt? And I'd say, from Palestine. And they'd say, oh, stay as long as you like. Stay as long as you like. So there was definitely everywhere I went. There were Palestinian flags all throughout Egypt. There was, you know, a stretch for a while there that I texted one of my friends

and said, if I didn't know any better, I would think this was the Egyptian flag. Like, it quite literally was everywhere. So, yeah, I would say the people that I was able to firsthand interact with, even the hotel I stayed at, the little tiny hotel that I stayed at when I, you know, first got there. I said, I'm very white. I look very American. But I got there. And I walked in. Someone said, you know, you said, you like, look at me, Israeli. And I was like, no, no, blah. And they're like, okay, tell me. There's definitely an undercurrent of, you know, people are aware, are very aware. of what's going on. Yeah, there's mass support from the bottom up for the Palestinian people all across the region, even

under governments that are trying to walk that U.S. diplomatic line. Very much. And I mean, Jordan is, gosh, I don't want to, you know, this might not be a 100% accurate, but I think it's something like 60% Palestinian. But Jordan has a massive, massive Palestinian population.

Absolutely. Well, let's talk about your experiences in the West Bank proper. You got there. I'm just kind of just seeing your general experiences and then we can get into some details but yeah was what how do you once you were in the west bank how did your sort of journey go and the people you talk to the experiences you had and the things you saw well i think i think right off the bat i think what's interesting is that you know once you enter the west bank you're very well aware you are in the west bank like it is not a

you know hey i'm hearing this has got to be fun like you're there are there are signs everywhere that this is clearly under occupation. And I think, I think coming from America and coming from, I think, Montana specifically with the, you know, gun culture that we have here, it's strange for me to go places and immediately recognize the sheer amount of guns because that's something that we have that we have here. And so I would say, I, you know, I got there. I crossed over.

I got to Jericho and then a friend of mine that picked me up was coming from, Bethlehem. And so he picks me up in Jericho. That's a two hour drive, by the way, roughly. And so he drove two hours to pick me up and they drove two hours back. And I think, you know, right away, you know, right away, like we pull up to Bethlehem. It is, we're in the container checkpoint in northern Bethlehem. And, you know, he, we're at the top of this long line car. So you can see at the bottom. You can see the checkpoint very clearly. You can see each card that's going through clearly. And he points out, he says, you know, he's been, he's been beaten at this checkpoint multiple times. And he comes to the shed, off to the side. And he says, they march you back to that shed, turn you around, put your hands on the wall, and they meet you. And I asked, I said, what is

the reason that they give you for this? And he said, it's how they train new soldiers. Right. So if you come through the checkpoint, you see new soldiers, someone's got to be getting, you know, beaten. Not even 10 seconds. I mean, it must have been simultaneously, as he is finishing, telling you this. He goes, look,

see, look, I'll do the shirt. And they pull this guy out of the passenger side door of the car at the checkpoint and pull his shirt up over his head, put his hand behind his head. And three of the soldiers march him back to this shed. And they turn around and his hands on the shed. And my friend goes, see, now they'll kick his leg. Kick his leg. The guy buckles. He goes, and now his shoulder.

They take his left arm, twisted back, goes behind him. So he's kind of arched back now. And the three of them just take turns beating the hell out of this guy. Oh, my God. And I was like, I'm going to see someone get beat to death. I've been here for two hours right and there's nothing you can do

no one can get out of a car you can't do anything I mean if you think you're going to go stop this you're going to get shot on the spot and so this continues they finally stock and they pick him up and they march him back to his car and they put him in the car and they waved the car along

and the next car pulls up they bang on the trunk they open the trunk up they throw a bunch of the stuff out on the street close the trunk it's all in the drive and they're kind of looking back to see if they can collect any of their things. Like, no, drive. You know, stuff is floating around the street.

So they're not confiscating anything. They're not, there's nothing. They're not interviewing anyone. Like, they're just being jerks. It's just petty, constant harassment. I don't think I would call beating petty, but, you know, it's this kind of harassment. And I asked, you know, my friend, I'm like, how does this, I don't know, how does this make you feel? I have to watch this and deal with this every day.

And he says, it's insulting. It's, you know, it's racism. And I was like, well, I wouldn't have to pick me. me up had I known that the checkpoints had gotten this bad because there are some checkpoints within the West Bank that you are extremely aware of that you know are very bad and the container checkpoint in Bethlehem doesn't necessarily have that reputation but you know it clearly should and he said well it'll be better because you're flooring right we hopefully it'll be better like okay so we watch every car past it's I mean probably 10 15 cars

we watched quite a few it's a level of harassment for every single one finally we're about to get up to the front and I ask him said, what do you want me to do? Do you want me to be the dumb, silly American, who only speaks English? Do you want me to not say anything at all? And he said, oh, that doesn't matter. They will decide long before we get up there how they are going to handle our car. Like, whatever you say, whatever you do, none of it matters at all. So the car in front of us goes, soldier looks back, she sees me, she makes eye contact with me, she's pointing in me, she's talking me, she pulls another soldier out, he's looking at me, he's talking about me, and we're just

waiting. They're not calling us for that, moving nothing. finally after a while she waved us forward we go to slow down they wave the car past stock the car behind us I was like my god like just the instantaneous rage instantaneous rage and that was on day one

and that was you know it's a constant constant feeling of being both in danger while also being possibly a shield for this kind of stuff at the same time yeah i mean absolutely brutal and that's what we mean by apartheid this is jim crow style brutality raw yes raw racism just wanton violence you know petty harassment throwing people shit all over

the street and just telling them to keep going um it's just brutal and this is the real face of israel this is not even in gaza this is in the west bank um this is what it is this is west bank yeah and this is what is necessary to maintain an apartheid system and so anybody that takes And it's constant. Yeah, yeah. Right? It's, it's every, every ounce, every second of their day, they have to deal with this kind of, you know, consistent bullying, consistent harassment.

And it's not even, I mean, gosh, yeah, I'll tell you about another day that, you know, that my little white face was not acting in the shield in any case. But, you know, it's just this constant, constant, constant harassment. And, you know, to have to live like this and to have to organize their lives around this, you know, in one instance, because I, you know, as we were, we were going to another location and I saw there was some Palestinian police. And I noticed that the guns that the Palestinian police were using were not, not a super efficient type of weapon. Like I said, I'm from, you know, Montana in the United States, very familiar with guns that cops use here, which are efficient. And I was like, that's an interesting, that's an interesting gun for the police to have. And I, you know, I asked like, why is this? And they said, because, um, essentially, the Israeli military doesn't want the police to be a part of any kind of uprising. They give them these workless guns to truck and use. Yeah, it's literally every, it's every single aspect.

Did you say that you had another story that was similar to that? Do you want to tell that? Oh, yeah. So there were, I mean, there's countless, just countless ones. But I said one of the, like, it would have been, gosh, this would have been the very next day, actually. this would have been the day too. But we went to, we were traveling to Beta, which is this small village on the outskirts of Nablus. And we're traveling there. We, it's quite a drive. I want to say it's close to three hours when you go through checkpoints. Oh, it would fire the way. As soon as we left the Bafflehem checkpoint, they were, um, though that was when we get back. I'll tell that later. But anyway, so as soon as we, we leave, we go to Nablus and we're almost to Nablus and we come across this very big roundabout that has multiple streets. multiple lanes come across this. And my friend is like, I don't, I don't know this roundabout.

The signs were a little confusing. There were some signs. And then others were missing. So it was kind of confusing to see. And he pulls over immediately because he can't go the wrong way. He's like, I got to figure out their own way. So we call this brother. His brother is like, I don't know that one either.

A car pulls over next to us that had some Palestinian men. And they, you know, he's asking them, you know, which way to Nablis? I don't know this one. So they tell us the right direction. We turn around. We get on the right street and we're heading to Nablus. And he's finally relaxed. He's like, okay, I know the street.

I know where I am. Everything's good. Sounds good. We're going 30 miles an hour, 35 miles an hour, cars in front of us, parts behind us. We're getting close to, I wouldn't even say we're close to the entry of Nabilis, but there's a sign that says, hey, Nablus this way, right? You're coming up on it. And before we even get to the sign, four Israeli soldiers jump out from the side of the street

and they're screaming at us to stop. They've got their guns on us. a screaming ass stop. He comes to a screeching stop in the middle of the street. And they are absolutely screaming on us. He's got his hands up. I've got my hands up. They've got their guns on us. They're telling us turn around, turn around. And he asks, he asks beta, because this is the direction. This is the way to go, which infuriates them. So they start coming out, coming at us. And he's trying to, like, back up, you know, three, four turn in the middle of the street. There's cars going around just still. We're the only ones stopped. And eventually, like,

he gets this three point turn while they are screaming at us. And we end up turning around. And he immediately pulls over, puts his hand out the window on a side street, I'll see an car drives by the stops. And he says, you know, how do I get to beta? And they basically are like, yeah, this is a road we can't use anymore. And instead of even giving directions, he was like, hey, follow me. I'll show you.

And so I want to say he drove, like, a number of miles out of his way just to show us, just so we could follow him to get on the road to this exact location. And I asked, I said, why did they stop us? Like, there was no checkpoint. There was no sign. There was nothing. And he said, well, I have a white Palestinian plate. So that's probably what it was, is they just stock that car.

And in ultimate honesty, I think if we would have stopped 50 feet, 50 feet more, 50 meters more, I bet we would have been lit up. Like, we would have been treated like a suicide bomber or something because just even coming close. And so I ended up calling it kind of a pop-up checkpoint. And there were other times during, you know, my stay that I would notice one. Like, it's like, it's like a small, I want to describe it, like a child's lemonade stand. It's very small. It's off to the side road. It's covered in bushes, trees.

You really can't see it. I don't think you're meant to see it. I think it is meant to be very hidden. And they just, yeah, they just came out and stopped us and made us turn around. And, yeah, there was no, there was no shielding there. I was, you know, fully as much of the nature as anybody else. But yeah, it's just this, like I said, a constant, constant harassment. No matter where you go, what you do, there is going to be a form of, you know, danger and harassment, just ready, ready for you.

Yeah, it's this hallmark of fascism and apartheid where there's this arbitrary and tyrannical imposition of authority at every turn just to keep you constantly guessing, to keep your dignity constantly, you know, imposed upon and pressed down upon. And so you have to think every single step. You have to try to understand what your oppressor is thinking. And then just the arbitrariness of it makes it so scary because, you know, you don't know what they're thinking. You don't know when they're going to just be a complete asshole or decide just to kill you because there's no, there is no consequences for that. If they did light you guys up, like it's not like those soldiers would go to jail or have any accountability. They would clean the bodies up and keep doing it. It's brutal.

Well, and that's the thing is it's not even that there's a lack of consequence. It's that it is beneficial for the occupation to act that way. If they had lit us up, we would have been an example, and it would have been a benefit for them to have like, hey, we got to make someone an example today, and it strengthens what they're doing. Like, it's not even the lack of consequence. It is really, you know, the worst this harassment is and the kind of the potholes that people just instinctively step into on complete accident where they do, where they are shot, where they are killed. that works in favor of the operation because they can label that person however they want and they can frame the story however they want and then use it to their advantage so brutal so brutal that people have to live under this shit

you've talked about this violence imposed on on Palestinians by the security forces the iof the idf whatever but i'm also interested about the settler dynamic because you're in the west bank and the idf and the settlers obviously work you know in tams But these settlers are basically, you know, forces of terrorism. So can you talk a little bit about any experiences you might have had or heard about with regards to the settlers? Well, you know, I specifically asked about, I didn't, I didn't have any immediate reactions with settlers while I was there. I had much, many more interactions with usually military. But the thing to know about the settlers, I think that tends to get overlooked is that the settlers are not just, you know, Israeli citizen,

that just like fell. But like coming over, they are reserve soldiers. But there's there's a reason why they have so many guns. There's a reason why they know how to use these guns. There's a reason why the vast, vast majority of them are military age young men. This is, you know, it's not a, you know, these mobs of settlers are not just women and children with guys mixed in coming through. It is reserve soldier who are actively settling these areas. So they spend a few. They spend a few months in the military and then on their, you know, reserve time off, they are actively terrorizing and trying to settle as much land as possible. So, you know, even the dynamic of even calling them settlers feels a bit odd, you know, after being there because settlers feels like such a, um, such a tame word compared to, compared to what, you know, how they're actually acting and the terror that they are inflicting on people. Um, yeah, it, it's, it's, it's, it's, It's kind of a mind warp a little bit, how we define settlers, especially like here in the U.S. I don't know.

I think of pilgrims and I think of the boats of people getting off. And that is not what it is. That is absolutely not what it is. So, yeah, that's a definitely different one. It's a different dynamic. It's not that they are only assisted by the Israeli military. They are active members of the Israeli military. Whether they're on duty or off duty, they are still, you know, consistently active members.

yeah i mean i kind of understand your point too about how how settled the term settler sort of dilutes the poisonous aspect of what they're actually doing yeah it makes it it's a little more digestible i think yeah it really does it kind of makes it seem like they're not as threatening as they are they're extremely threatening and they're extremely dangerous um and they have the full protection of the military because they are military members themselves yeah i would say they're more akin to like the black shirts and brown shirts you know our auxiliaries of of the fascist regimes of Europe and the settlers kind of play a very similar role. Yeah. And you know, that's a good thing to bring up. So I think I think one of the most

jarring experiences too, when we talk about these kind of fascist regimes in Europe or, you know, in America and stuff and this kind of overlap is after we had gotten to Bada and after, you know, I was interviewing someone there because I was in Bata to kind of learn about the town and this like consistent resilience and resistance the town has had for it. settlers. They're kind of one of the, you know, they do it better than a lot of the other towns. They're kind of well known for the way that they resist settlers. But while I was there, we went to the top of the mountain where the Turkish American was killed. Iseigneur was killed. And we stopped at her memorial. And, you know, the gentleman that was with us had been there. And he kind of showed

us the building where the sniper was located and said that after she was shot, he could, you know, he stood up, he was cheering. You could hear him cheering all the way down the mountain. So we went through that area, and then we went all the way up to the top of the mountain. And I was there with a few other Palestinian men. They're kind of filtering me in on some other things. And they say, you know, you can go ahead and take photos, take all the photos you want.

The tradition with this mountain is it's a very sacred mountain. It's where they come to pray. And prayer usually happens, Friday prayer happens around, you know, like 1 o'clock in the afternoon. The military will show up sometime before then to provoke them. And then as soon as, you know, they pray, they basically protest the military's presence on the mountain. The military leaves

and this happens every day. So they said, you know, we're there at 10.30, we're there at 11 and they said, go ahead and take the photos you need. Yeah, there's no danger here. The military won't be here for hours. Everything's fine. As I'm taking photos, but the military shows up. So, you know, I turn the corner in there.

They're right there. And I think the most jarring, it's the most jarring experience of, you know, the whole trip and it's still sitting with me. is the fact that these military vehicles are distinctly American. This is American military equipment, which is even jarring to myself because I am not someone who's interested in the intricacies of military equipment.

I don't study this stuff. I'm not curious about it. But the fact that I can know it so quickly and recognize it so instinctively really goes to show how conditions, you know, we are in the United States with our military presence. You know, I kind of feel like our military is our church here. our religion here. It is a part of every sporting event, every holiday, everything. We are going to have military vehicles there. And so to turn the corner, you know, I'm in a, I'm in a foreign land, foreign landscape, foreign climate, the signs they're in a different language. My friends are

behind me speaking Arabic and to turn and see, you know, a military vehicle that I was like, that was in the park in front of my house in Fourth of July. Kids took photos on that vehicle. That's, that's a strange experience, you know, to see the old overlap out of these other countries who are assisting in this occupation and to see it right there in front of your face. Like that. Absolutely. And it just speaks to the point that none of this is possible without the backing of the United States. You take away the U.S. military, intelligence, money, funds, and Israel is done within a week. Yes. Yes. You mentioned that there's this area where they, you know, have certain strategies to resist settler violence. Can you

you expound, if I heard you correctly, could you expound a little bit on that resistance aspect to this settler violence and how Palestinians might organize themselves or defend themselves against it? Yes. So data is, it's a small village. It's, I want to think it's roughly 15,000 people. It might be a little more or less depending on what's going on now. It's fairly difficult to get exact numbers, of course. But it's right around that size. So we're not talking a large, this isn't a large municipality or anything. But what they do as a village, is they donate money to basically a pool where they use it for various things. So they often, they'll buy old vehicles from junkyards or old tires from junkyards. This is kind of what they did.

I want to say, was it 2018? I think it was 2018. I could have that year wrong now, where they basically burned, gosh, something like 100,000 tires upwind of a settlement to basically engulf this settlement and white smoke for days. And it worked. The settlers left. And they left the same people. There have been times where they will donate money to a pool to basically build houses at the top of some of these peaks because settlers will target both areas where there's water. So it'll be the Bedouin, the Bedouin tents and the Bedouin areas that they kind of settle near trees and you know there's water in that area. Or they will target like the top of peaks, the top of mountains to kind of gain type of advantage. And so the residents of Veda had found that if they are able to build some kind of structure in these areas where, the settlers would have to both tear down a structure and rebuild.

It's just more work for them. They'll try and aim. They'll go for a different peak. So they've pooled their mind together to begin building just as many structures as they can. They'll build a house. They'll build a garden. They'll build a fence, a pathway. They'll build.

As settlements happen, they have little fences on the outside of the settlements where they have claimed their area. And so the Palestinians will build things right on the edge of that fence. so they can't extend that fence somewhere else. They'll build it. They'll date a trough. They'll build a sidewalk. They'll build something there that marks the edge of that settlement so they can't just keep creeping it forward and building more land.

And this town especially, the other thing is they aren't, you know, they act very quickly, very quickly. The gentleman I was talking to basically described it as, you know, they pull their money, they make a decision. They do it. If it works, they do it again. If it doesn't work, they try something else. There aren't these really long,

foreign discussions, they just don't have time for that. It is, it is an urgency of trying what we can, staying together and just consistently, consistently, consistently staying together as they resist these settlers. And they have had some success. The municipality even works with them. Every time they build literally anything, the municipality declares it as a legally protected part of beta. So it's, yeah, it's quite intense how they've been doing that. And it's, it's, It's inspiring to watch and to learn about. Yeah, the creativity and the community is certainly inspiring. But of course, that's all they have, right?

They have to resort to it. Yes. And, you know, and they've mentioned, too, as a part of that where, you know, they used to have quite a few foreign protesters who would come and help with this. And they mentioned that that is helpful. It is helpful for the foreign protesters to come. I mean, there are banners and signs and posters of Iseigneur all over, all over the town. I mean, they're, you know, unbelievably thankful for the sacrifice that she gave.

them. And they'd ask, like, please, come. They use that same pool of money to basically feed protesters, bring them water, anyone who wants to come and help. Like, they, they welcome that kind of help. One thing that Willie Massey from the Gaza episode talked about was the undying generosity of the Palestinian people. I'm wondering if you can speak to that with your experiences in the West Bank. You know, it is. Undying is a really good way to describe it. It is almost a smothering generosity. You are going to accept their generosity, whether you like it or not. And I love it so much because, you know, I, when I'm somewhere and I'm working, I really do get into work mode.

I will forget to eat. I will forget to really do anything except work. Like, I'm going to do interview, interview, interview, right, right, right, right, right, right, shoot, edit photos. I will just kind of forget to take care of myself. and they kind of forced you to like after we were leaving Beto we were like okay we have to get going I have to work to do our friend was like no

we're going to sit and drink tea and this is non-negotiable and that is really the that is really kind of the sentiment constantly is it is an overwhelming generosity and an overwhelming community and sense of community

there are a number of people that you know when I speak to they ask oh are you here for tourism And I'm like, no. And I'll kind of say, yes, I'm here. You know, I'm a journalist and a photographer. And they're like, oh, press, come with us. Come with us. Come with us.

And so it is just this. Yeah, it is a completely different. It's a completely different dynamic. I know I've been to, you know, other areas that were conflict. And sometimes you're looked at, especially as a Western, white, Western journalist, as someone who might be there to exploit an issue, you know, as a career gain. And this was this was not that at a problem. all. It was, it's an entirely, it's entirely different dynamic. Um, and it's part of the reason

why a leaving is so, so, so incredibly difficult. Um, you know, sometimes, you know, when you leave a conflict area, it's always like a little bit of the relief, like, okay, well and out. I can kind of relax. Um, I don't think I've felt any relief having left. I don't think I've felt it for a day. I have felt devastated, really, really devastated to leave. Um, and it also speaks to why I am going back so quickly. It just feels like you're leaving the best people you've ever known in the worst situation you've ever known. And it's, yeah, it's really tough, really tough to lead that and lead them there.

So I would say, yeah, an undangorosity is an understatement. I don't even know how to emphasize it, but it is. It's an understatement. Yeah, that's a ubiquitous thing that I hear from anybody who visits it. And I asked the question with tears in my eyes because I already know the answer. And for people that have been robbed and stripped of so much, the fact that they're still so abundant in their generosity is just so deeply inspiring and heartbreaking at the same time because you know what they endure.

It is. And to see, and I think the part of it, too, is like, you don't even have to hear about what they endure. The second you're there, you're witnessing at firsthand. It is, it is everywhere, and everywhere. And even to see, I mean, they just, Israel just, bombed the cafe in Tulkram, which is not, that's the West Bank, right? Like, I think people forget that, you know, they're bombing Gaza. The West Bank doesn't have hostages, doesn't have Halas, it doesn't have any of that.

And basically a freed prisoner was, they were celebrating a prisoner who had just gotten freed. And, yeah, it was bombed and they killed 20 people. Abject evil. And this is, this is their kind of environment that they are living in, constantly. So, yeah, that's a segue into this next question I kind of want to ask about, because with all the conflict, and yes, you're right, it's not just Gaza. I mean, Israel's bombing all the countries around it, and certainly it's also bombing the West Bank. How are the Palestinians in the area holding up, and what is the mood like in the West Bank broadly? you know how i tend to judge these things because i said because my background is is you know my

fascination is with resistance movements is i tend to judge them in comparison you know how the mood how the mood of a population how the mood of a resistance is in comparison to the the mood of the occupation right but yeah i tend to kind of judge it as a you know how does this how does this work in in reference to the mood of the occupation and right now now, I would say the important change isn't necessarily the mood of Palestinians in the West Bank because they are consistent. They have been consistent from day one. They have been patient and forward moving and persistent and dedicated to what they are doing from day one. And that has never changed. What has changed is the clear as day desperation in the occupation. As violence is

increasing as all the stuff is increasing those are not you know those are not to the signs of somebody who is in control and who is winning those are um the initial signs of something this called an extinction burst um my my education isn't actually in journals and my education is in psych so master's in sight um comes into play quite a bit but an extinction burst is kind of a way a way to think about it is kind of like a tantrum a little bit um if you think of a child go to a grocery store and he wants some candy. They're going to ask for it. If you say no, then they're going to whine, say no. And that's, they're just going to kind of increase this behavior to try and get what they want until at the end, they are flat out on the ground,

throwing a kicking and screaming tantrum. Because this is all they have left. This is every possible resource that they are using to get the thing they want. So when you see an occupation, when you see them start lashing out and now they're just bombing cafes, like when you see them start doing this stuff, This is the beginning of an extinction burst. This is where their current resources are not getting them the result they need, so they have to escalate in these dramatic waves. And that I do see in the West Bank.

I do see these pop-up checkpoints, the bombing of a cafe, the Israeli military is showing up to a protest three hours earlier than they normally would. They are having to escalate in these consistent ways to try and get the same bowl because the Palestinian people are still patience and moving forward and dedicating and unwavering in what they're doing. So I would see that's kind of the main difference between that mood shift. Yeah. Yeah, there's a death drive happening. There's an all out, all or nothing. I think the Netanyahu regime. Yes. The Netanyahu regime definitely knows that this is probably one of their last chances to finish their genocidal project because they know that the tide is turning against them

globally. Even younger people in the West are turning against them. They have the benefit of this lame duck Biden administration that is not going to in any way turn against them. And so they kind of had this idea that it's either now or never. And that speaks to this apocalyptic approach that they're taking. It really does. And so, you know, seeing like no one wants additional aggression, no one wants additional violence. This is kind of the only possible silver lining sugar coat I can offer when people are kind of fighting this type of, you know, intentional, intentional violence is that, you know, the pattern, these patterns as they work, once we get to this stage, it is, it is a level of desperation. And you are. You're seeing it everywhere, right? They're bombing

Lebanon. They're bombing Yemen. They're bombing Syria. They're, they're bombing everyone and anyone at this point. And that definitely feels like this level of desperation. Absolutely. Well, I mean, We're getting towards the end here. I want to be respectful of your time. You've been generous with yours. I am interested if you have any particular stories, anybody that you've interviewed or talked to, that you wanted to get their story and their voice out to a broader audience

or any things that you really want to drive home, given your time in the West Bank and the people you interacted with. I would say, I would say first and foremost, if anyone, if you're seeing any GoFundees being shared, from people in, you know, in Egypt who are also raising family and who people who, like, they have evacuated and they're in Egypt and they are still sharing theophanes, please donate to them. I do. I just see it constantly a people thing. Well, they have already gotten out, so I'm not going to donate to them anymore. I'm going to donate to people in Gaza. I fully understand the emergency

in Gaza as well. But if you have the ability to give the extra $5, $10, and there are GoFundMe's in Egypt, please do, because they are also in an impossible situation. They are, dealing with with bombs, but they're dealing with quite a different intense situation. So please, please help if you can. The other thing is, you know, when you're, when you're, the people are asking for funds, if you can take the time and talk to them. You know, maybe you're getting a million messages in Instagram. We're getting a million messages in TikTok, people like begging you to help their family. Pick one and talk with them and tell them that you're going to be there and you're going to help them through this. It might not mean

that you have a lot of money. It might mean you can ask some friends and family. But it's also just important for them to know that there's somebody on the outside that is, you know, actively asking to make sure that they're okay. And I think that that matters a lot too. So if you have it in you to just respond to a message and then every day think, you know what, I'm going to, I'm going to ask this person how they're doing. Please do. That that, it does make a bigger difference. And I would also say, please keep with the, the protests in the U.S., the protests in these other countries, the BDS campaign, the boycott campaigns. The boycotting has been overwhelmingly effective in so many different aspects. Please continue the boycotts.

I think, if anything, that is something that is noticeable in areas. I mean, I was at a store with some of one of the families from Egypt, because we were getting a little bit of groceries and they pointed at like the jar of Nutella and they're like I saw you I'm like that's right you know like they just know what products to buy and what to dock because they're really they're really focused on on pretty much any form of resistance here so I keep up with the boycotty campaigns those are working keep talking about it keep sharing about it is I know it feels exhausting the thing that's gone on a year now tomorrow will be a year on well a year from you know the one time, but it's been going on for 70-something years.

Yeah. But yeah, this is all important. Like, keep sharing, keep being loud, keep doing all that stuff. It is 100% making a difference, even if it doesn't feel like it. Are the Palestinians that you've come across aware of just how much support they have around the world and even amongst Americans? The one that I meet do, because I have them called, I will have friends from home call to say, hey, we've got a bunch of us here. You're doing a great job. a friend, Brendan, who is the, you know, kind of founder of Montaans for Palestine,

Brendan work. He is based in Missoula and he's an Arabic, you know, instructor he teaches Arabic. So I'll usually call him when he's in school with his class, so his entire class can say hello and say hi to people. So, yeah, we try and spread that as make it clear as possible. I will say there are, there is a lot of news that does not reach, though. One of the aspects that people were completely unfamiliar with is, is how many arrests are being made in the United States? We spoke a little bit because they can see that there's some campus, there's campus activity that's supporting them,

but they were completely unaware that there have been thousands of students arrested for this in the United States, which speaks to the level of participation people have, right? Because to have a protest is one thing. To have a protest and be arrested by the thousands and continue to protest, that's an entirely different thing. So, yeah, I would say, I try to share as much as I can, but there is definitely a lack of news that gets in with exactly how supportive people really are.

Yeah. And it's that support that might feel like cold comfort at the moment when so much suffering is going on. But, you know, that's how apartheid South Africa ended. That's how these regimes do fall. Is that the – yes. Even within the West, within the imperial core, the masses themselves shift sides. They see the things for how it actually are. And there are tens of millions of people that, you know, are.

hearts are 100% with the Palestinian people. And we hate our own government. And we hate what is doing to these innocent people. And I just, I don't know, it's not going to stop their suffering, but I just wish they knew how many millions and millions and millions of human beings are on their side. Yeah. And I, you know, I, I wish I wish they were able to see that too. I think, yeah, to even see a little bit, I think does offer a little bit of comfort and a little bit of solidarity. And I think that really does add up. And it's in small amounts. I mean, I've been a group chat with other moms here in Montana where we talk about school board stuff. And now we talk about school board stuff and Palestine because I'm in that group chat. So, you know,

those are those are people that typically this would not have been a priority for them. And I would say, yeah, shout out to Kylie and Brookland and Anne-Marie and Clementine. Because by God, they are not going to, you know, let this kind of stuff slide. They're very informed and very well aware of what's going on. And I think that's fascinating, that a little tiny mom group in, you know, Yellowstone County, Montana is extremely interested in what's going on in, you know, the West Bank and in Gaza right now. So it really does speak to the reach that this issue has and how much support is out there. Absolutely. And there's lots of organizations trying their best Palestine action, Jewish Voices for Peace, Palestinian Youth Movement, these huge protests in every city.

Yes, we've got, you know, in Montana, we have Montanaans for Palestine, which was, I mean, like I said, Brendan established it when he came back from, he was a journalist in the West Bank for a number of years. That's a good guest to have an interview on your show, right? Better actually. So he has been, you know, he's been advocating for this, fighting for this for at least a decade. in Montana. And that is a group that has done some incredible work. You know, they did a USA Day. I'm part of it. But, you know, we did a, we did a campaign and no preference campaign during the primaries against Biden in Montana, which nobody really cares about Biden in Montana. And we got nine, over 9,000, 9,100 people to vote no preference. We've done fundraisers. We've

done state marches. We protested in every single major city. think. Um, like in that, that amount of activity and that amount of awareness that has continued, uh, every single day. They, it's, it's amazing. The amount of money they've raised for different families is amazing. Um, and that's, and that's just in Montana. We're not even a massive city. We're not even a big, you know, massive area. We are a little state in the mountains that now exists, except, you know, when the Senate comes around. So I think, you know, that's what I mean. Like, it's, it really is, there's so much depth and so much range and so many people supporting Palestinians all over the world that I, I wish there was a way to be able to, to show them

how much support they really do have. Absolutely. Well, you're going back. And I was wondering if maybe as we enter the end of this conversation, you can talk a little bit about why you're going back and what you hope to accomplish this next round. So I'm going back. Yeah, I leave I leave tomorrow. And yeah, I don't, I don't know if I'm trying to fly into Jordanian airspace on October 7th is the best idea. Right. But we're going to try. So I'm leaving tomorrow.

I'm hoping to cross, you know, immediately after. And I think I'm trying my luck every time. But we're going to, we're going to hope. And this time, I'll be there for hopefully a number of weeks. So it will be a much longer stay compared to last time. I'm photographing some of the harvest and the olive harvest and because this is the time of the year that the farmers are most at risk of attacks because this is their harvest, this is their yearly incomes, everything for the entire year. So settlers are absolutely brutal in what they do to farmers right now. So I'll be photographing a little bit of that and then I'll mostly be spending time with a Palestinian equestrian club or riding club that was dismantled in January of this year.

In Jerusalem, because Israel decided it was built illegally, and they completely destroyed the club with horses inside. Some of the horses were injured. So that club has now reestablished, and I'll be there with them and photographing kind of how they are continuing to provide, you know, these services. They help a lot of special needs children. They help a lot of, you know, just children in general. and it's a really beautiful thing. So I'll be there with them photographing their kind of organization, everything that they do

and hoping to bring awareness to their phone rider because they have a GoFundMe, which I can send you, basically trying to raise funds to help their own, to help rebuild their writing clubs. So that's what I'll be doing there. And then I'll be in probably a couple other places just to say hi to friends that I know that I'm going to be there.

I really want to say hi to. Yeah. Well, best of luck to you on that. Definitely send our love to the Palestinian people and, you know, let us know if we can be of any assistance whatsoever here at Rev. Left with getting the word out or updating people on your next trip. This episode is going to be delayed a little bit precisely because we don't want you to have any troubles at any border crossings. If they search your name and this episode comes up, it might not be the best for you. So we'll wait to publish this. So people listening to this, it'll be a little later than usual when you'll be listening to this, but it's for a good reason. And then, yeah, if you want to send me any specific GoFundMe links to the families that you interacted with or anything like that,

I will absolutely post them in the show notes of this episode so people can immediately go and show their love and support by donating whatever they may have. Thank you. Thank you. I really appreciate it. I really appreciate it. I'm definitely got links and I'll send, you know, any, you know, if anyone wants to kind of follow along, please, you know, follow me on Instagram and Twitter. I'm not incredibly often, but I am there. I do post and I do at least post links to you know, when articles come out or, you know, I have a substack that I basically don't use that I've thought of using a little more for the day-to-day things because I find people resonate a lot more with the, you know, this, when we talk about like this pettiness and this bullying, you know,

talking about the what happens at a checkpoint and seeing a man get beaten, you know, within two hours of arriving. That isn't an article. That's not an article that any news organization is going to post. But I feel that kind of stuff is what people really resonate with most and that we can feel and we can relate to. So hopefully we'll be able to share a little more of that. Absolutely. Yeah. Well, keep up the good work and please keep in touch. Again, let me know if I can do anything at all to be of assistance. And yeah, all the links to the GoFundMe's and any support and to your socials will be in the links so people can go and stay up to date with the work that you're doing awesome thank you so much i really appreciate you having me on um it feels like a a you know

just if as many people as possible that can hear what is happening there and that can help in some small way uh this kind of stuff really does make a difference so i really really appreciate and giving you space to talk about it absolutely anytime be safe my friend talk soon thank you Wake up, it's a long night, darling, wake up, it's the brightest sky. No love, it's a dark night, darling, hold on to me for delight. Wake up, where, where do we go to? Wake up fire, fire in your eye. Oh, love, we will try to come and see.

save you it's all just a matter of time wake up don't you listen to the people wake up from the mountain of the lives no love you've been upon through every sequel wake up wake up wake up wake up call your brother call your mother wake up under aid from the sky oh love we're digging deep in the rubble Hold on to my voice outside Wake up we just lost another family Wake up cause we need the world to see

No love they won't ever understand us Too bad we're just bodies on a screen Wake up they don't care about the people Wake up they don't care about you too Oh love if you're walking with the people Hold on cause they're coming for you Wake up, little boy, they don't want you Wake up, you might threaten their plan

Run, run, no before they come and find you Grow up till you're taught to fight back