Rev Left Radio - [BEST OF] Friends of the Congo: The Congolese Struggle for Self-Determination

Episode Date: May 2, 2025

ORIGINALLY RELEASED Feb 15, 2024 Passy and Maurice from Friends of the Congo join Breht to discuss the history and the present of the Congo. Together, they discuss their organization, Passy's on-the-ground organizing in the Democratic Republic of the Congo, the history of the Congo, Patrice Lumumba and his legacy, European and Belgian colonialism, King Leopold II, the brutal ongoing violence and displacement occuring in the Eastern DRC, US imperialism and the Kagame Regime in Rwanda, M23, Neo-Colonialism, Colbalt and rare-earth mineral mining, modern day slavery and the industries it serves, the so-called "green capitalist transition" and its rotting underbelly, and much more. Friends of the Congo (FOTC) is a Pan African solidarity organization raising global consciousness about the challenges and potential of the Congo. Become A Friend of the Congo: http://www.congoweek.org http://friendsofthecongo.org/https://twitter.com/congofriends https://www.facebook.com/congofriends   ---------------------------------------------------- Support Rev Left and get access to bonus episodes: www.patreon.com/revleftradio Make a one-time donation to Rev Left at BuyMeACoffee.com/revleftradio Follow, Subscribe, & Learn more about Rev Left Radio HERE Outro Beat Prod. by flip da hood

Hello everybody, welcome back to Rev Left Radio. Today we have a very important episode on today that we really wanted to share with people, and it's an issue that has been going on for quite some time, doesn't get as much coverage as it should, and that is the issue of what's going on in the Congo, the Democratic Republic of the Congo, specifically in the eastern Congo, around the coal bolt mines and other natural resources. and mineral mines, the role that U.S. imperialism plays with the Comprador regimes in Rwanda

and Uganda and how they work together to destabilize and brutalize the Congolese people and the Congo in general. This is a really important conversation, and I really hope people listen to it. We have two wonderful guests from the organization, Friends of the Congo. We have Maurice from that organization, and we also have Passy, who has actually grew up and is in, as we speak to him in this interview, is in Kinshasa, the capital of the Democratic Republic of the Congo. So we get pass these sort of on the ground organizer perspective of the issue, and we get Marisa's deep knowledge of the history of the area and the role that U.S. imperialism and Western neocolonialism plays. And so throughout this conversation, it's just a really wonderful patchwork of perspectives that help us understand what's going on. And importantly, the most important thing is, of course, how we can help.

And at the very end, I asked that question. They both answer it. But one of the main answers is going to freecongo.org. There, you can donate money to the cause to help the people who are being brutalized by these rebel groups, by M23, etc. You can sign a petition that they ask you to sign. And you can even connect and join up with the organization, Friends of the Congo, to help them in a more concrete and on. going fashion. I highly, highly encourage people to do that. It's incredibly important issue. And what comes out in this conversation, we make very clear towards the end, is this

fight for, this fight against climate change and this fight for a better future, a future less relying on fossil fuels, is often presented to us as this, you know, holy good thing. We can transition to, you know, electric vehicles and to, you know, solar panels and move away from fossil fuels, but just like everything with liberalism, the thing that they present you with hides a rotting core. And underneath that core of this quote unquote green capitalist transition is a mountain of workers at the bottom of that supply chain being brutalized, living in conditions that are modern day slavery conditions, are being displaced from their land, are being brutalized, having atrocities committed against them, etc., because there's deep,

deep financial interests around the world, but specifically being led by the West and the U.S. to have access to these minerals at as low a cost as possible. And that comes with the brutalization of human beings. And so when we want to speak up about climate change, when we want to speak up about the necessity to move to new forms of renewable energy, we have to center the fight of the working and poor people who make it all possible. And the people of the Congolese, the Congolese people of the Congo are absolutely crucial to that entire process and are being treated in deeply inhumane ways. And as we discuss in this episode, that inhumane treatment at the hands of the West and of European colonialist and neo-colonialists

goes way, way back. Some of the most brutal atrocities of the 20th century came with the Belgian Congo under King Leopold II. And we talk about that in this episode as well. And I I don't want to obviously dig into the graphic details, but you can look it up and just see how disgustingly brutal that regime was. And now we have the numbers of 10 million Congolese people during that period of Belgian colonialism in the Congo being murdered. 10 million. That is a genocidal mass murder campaign to benefit financially the centers of imperialism and colonialism in Europe and in the West. absolutely disgusting. But we also, of course, talk about Patrice Lumumba, right? One of the heroes of the Congo and one of the people who stood up and fought back against

that colonialism and with the masses by his side helped lead the liberation and independence struggle for those people. But still to this day, as we talk about in the episode, more explicit brutal colonialism of past centuries has been replaced with a more refined, sophisticated neocolonialism, but the same levels of exploitation, And in many cases, the same level of brutality continues to persist in these areas. And so our fight against climate destabilization is also and must always be a conscious fight against colonialism in all of its manifestations. And you can't fight capitalism, you can't fight imperialism, you can't fight fascism, and you can't fight climate change without fighting colonialism, which allowed for and ushered all to rest in. So this is a really important conversation. And without further ado, here is my conversation with Passy and Maurice from Friends of the Congo.

Enjoy. My name is Pasio-Gouzi as knows and Spassi bass. I'm a musician, the best player. I'm an educator, teacher, and youth organizer. I'm working with the organizations, RAS, which is a result of a culture that can be translated in English as Afro-Culture. This organization that is fighting for the unity, for the awareness of the situations in Congo,

and tried to mobilize the masses. I've been working with Friends of the Congo since 2018 from Bucamble, South Capeo Province of County, where I was born. And here in Congo, I'm in Chishasar. Thanks to the front of the Congo with other organizations. I came here, I went in Ghana as well, just to look about Africanism and socialism and the principles of communism.

And so I'm just here working just to mobilize the muscles, but in art, production, and in activism, going on the ground and also educating students about the history of Congo, especially the struggle and the vision of Lumumba. Thank you. Wonderful. Maurice, would you like to introduce yourself? Yes, my name is Maurice Carney. I am one of the co-founders of Friends of the Congo. I also serve as an organization's executive director been engaged in

Pan-African solidarity work around Congo and Africa for guys over a quarter century over 25, 30 years been engaged in building solidarity, organizing an African solidarity work between Africans, Africans at home, and Africans abroad.

And looking forward to this discussion today, Brett. Wonderful. Well, it's an honor and a pleasure to have both of you on today to talk about an incredibly important issue. But first and foremost, I'd like to introduce your organization to our listeners. So can you please tell me about or tell us about Friends of the Congo, how it started, its sort of ideological orientation and what its main goals are? Sure, sure. Friends of the Congo is a pan-African solidarity institution. We've been in existence for over 20 years now. And we come in the tradition of organizations like the international friends of Absinia. Those of you may or may not remember, the friends of Absinia started by figures like Celar James.

Amy Ashwood Garvey, T.J. Maryshow, Jomo Kenyatta, and Fizio Africans who rallied to come to the side of Ethiopia when Ethiopia was under attack by the Italians in the 1990, late 1930s. And by the same token, today, Friends of the Congo organized and rally to come by the side of Congolese. while they've been under attack for the past quarter century by proxy forces of the United States and the United Kingdom that has triggered a tremendous loss of life of millions of Congolese that perishes as a result of this war of aggression against them. So Friends of the Congo organized to do with really two mandates. One is to raise global consciousness about what was transpiring in the Congo. So we had a situation where millions of people have perished and there wasn't much attention being focused on it.

So that was one of our key aims is to let the world know what was taking place in the Congo. And the second is to provide support to local institutions, those that are engaged in those that are engaged in striving for long-lasting change in the Congo. Wonderful. Well, it's a wonderful what your organization is doing. We obviously support it here at RevLeft, and that's one of the reasons why we wanted to have you on. The way that we're going to do this conversation is kind of do it in two parts. One, we're going to cover some of the basic history of the Congo, of the Democratic Republic of the Congo. We're going to talk about that history, some important points, La Mumba, etc. And then we'll transition into a discussion of what's happening in the area presently. So, you know, for the historical aspect of it, and I know this is a big question. So feel free to take this in whatever direction you want. But can you kind of give us a brief historical overview of the Congo and sort of how it came to be what it is today? I suppose I can start and fast that you can chime in. What we usually share with folks is that Congo has been big Congo itself, the Democratic Republic of the Congo, the Republic of Congo.

The Congo has been central to the 500-year tragedy of people. African ancestry. From the early 1500s to the late 1800s and the trafficking of Africans from the continent to the Americas, almost half of those trafficked, those Africans trafficked to the Americas came out of the Congo region, the Congo Empire, the Central Africa region, according to Emory University's database. So we see that that heart of Africa, The region where Congo is located looming large at the very outset of the extraction of resources, extraction of human beings from the African continent. And we moved to the 1800s, where the late 1800s, 1884, 1885, the Berlin Conference,

it was also called a Congo conference. And Congo also figured large in that conference as well, in that Congo was given to King Leopold II of Belgium as his own personal property coming out of the Berlin Conference, where he reigned over the so-called Congo Free State that they created, the Europeans created it, coming out of the Berlin Conference, for a 23-year period, 1880. 85 to 1908, where an estimated 10 million people perished as the king extracted rubber and ivory. Yeah, Passy, would you like to add anything to that? Yeah, thank you. Thank you, Brother Maurice, for this wonderful presentation. Lod, you just said, you know, everything started from the Berlin conference in 1885. and up to the time

Al-Wul Mumba and Saba took power and this was the first republic. The second republic is when the name of the country moved from Congo up to Zai and

I would like to analyze it to give the details on the word Congo. Congo comes from the Congo language, local language. Co. is a prefix which means an ally, someone who is like, is connected to. And Gaul means leopard, like this wild, wild cat. And it means that Congo symbolizes authority. So before the arrival

of Europeans, these colonizers, we were organized in terms of the empires and kingdoms, local kingdom. And after this era, the period of the Second Republic, which was led by Mobutu, who moved on to the democracy. So Congo became the Democratic Republic of Congo. And so far, this is the third, let's say, the third republic that's where we are on the go, we are living. So this is the short history of Gungu in terms of the history. That's the origin of the concept of Gung. And we have been undergoing so many atrocities from the rubber to the cobalts, the copper, uraniums, and you know the history of Japan and USA.

So we are victims of our richness and wealth, and that's why Lomba died. So that's what I can say in brief. And we as heirs of Lulumba, we are there to continue the struggle against exploitation and to give Congo its value. Thank you. Absolutely. Beautifully said. So let's talk a little bit about that history of European colonialism. And a particularly disgusting chapter in the broader disgusting history of European colonialism was what was called.

And you mentioned it, the Belgian Congo. During this time, Leopold II oversaw some of the most brutal, inhumane treatment of African people in the Congo in particular. Can you tell us a little bit about this tragic history so people can understand that history of trauma that people in the area have gone through? Yeah, thank you. In order to build and to come up with the products from rubber, they exploded. As imperialism and capitalism is defined as exploitation of humans by humans, So the leopard era, mean domination regime, was there just to exploit to consider Congolese as subhumans. And we are undergoing these tactics and these strategies of imperialism.

They are now they are not calling themselves colonialists, but they are new colonialists. Because they are changing strategies, instead of using people to exploit, extracts a robber. It's about other minerals because the context is changing. And people now need cobalts. They need cotton to have more products, materials, from the industry. So we are having the same context. And the question is that if Lumumba was there, what could Lumumba do? Because they are trying to multiply strategies just to make us lead,

not to awaken ourselves. They are using the government. We have betrayers. We have so many betrayers. And we are trying to make puppets on the power. Because they are not intervening directly. They're using NGOs association organizations. And they're using rebels' movements.

You know, these movements that I call anti-Panafical movements. They are using neighboring countries. They are using now, these people who will work with the governments, they are having some agreements. And this is the strategy. And that's why Lomba and other nationalities, these fighters of freedom died. It is the same context. Cutting the hands, the arms of the population, the local population, just to stretch and robber, they are using their hands. And the more rubber you bring, I mean, the more response and encouragement,

if you don't bring a rubber, they will have to catch your hands. And today, if we are not producing these minerals, we are not giving them minerals. They just come in a raid, just kill us, and using these rebels, using other strategies just to maintain us in this exploitation, this operation. I think that it is the same the same process, the same strategy about changing the forms. Thank you. Yeah, Maurice, do you have anything to add to that? Yeah. The, the atrocity that were committed under, under King Liverpool were, it's kind of interesting because, you know, friends of the Congo, we established to rate contentment about what transpiring in the Congo.

That doesn't deal solely with the contemporary Congo, it also deals with historic Congo. Because during that 23-year period, that King Leopold Drain, the population was best estimated by half, an estimated 10 million Congolese perished as the king extracted that rubber and the ivory. But people already know about it. People know about the Holocaust. People may know about the Armenian genocide. But folks didn't really want to be. really present to what had transpired in the Congo on the King Leopold II. And interestingly enough, the atrocities, many of the atrocities are committed by the king was documented by an African-American by the name of William Shepard, and he produced the reports of the hands being chopped off and the killings and the lashings and the forced labor

and virtual slavery that people experienced during the king's reign, which prompted figures like Mark Twain, you know, who wrote King Leopold soliloquite, exposing the atrocious conditions in the Congo under the king, who said that he's going into the Congo to bring Christianity and to bring civilization and to end slavery. And he did the opposite. He destroyed civilization in the Congo.

And you had figures like, Bukati, Washington who wrote essays around the tragedy that was being committed. So what it did on the one hand, it laid beer, the tragedy that was taking place in the Congo that period, but it also spurred on in the international movement with figures like Bugatti, Washington, a great African-American figure like George Washington, who participated, who was a part of the civil war in the U.S. and went to the Congo in the 1890s and said what was happening.

They were basically crimes against humanity. So there are, and in addition to that, you had Congolese, without sharing that were resisting. The whole communities, the villages resisted the king's imposition. And many of those communities today will tell those stories of how their ancestors resisted

the brutal reign of King Leopold, the second of Belgium and the Congo. Yeah, it's absolutely atrocious. You said 10 million Congolese murdered under that brutal, brutal regime. And of course, the lie of European colonialism is always this insane idea that they're bringing civilization when they actually bring the exact contrary of civilization. they bring barbarism, anti-human cruelty, and they destroy existing and flourishing civilizations. We see the same dynamic going on right now in historic Palestine, where Israel is using a lot of the same language that European colonialists have used for hundreds and hundreds of years about bringing civilization and being the only democracy in the Middle East while they absolutely brutalized Palestinians. And we would never forget that, that what comes along, you know, with a with a set. Colonialism, with the enslavement, with the exploitation is the propaganda, right? Civilization,

Christianity, democracy, all of those words that cover the cruel and inhumane treatment that's been perpetrated against indigenous populations. And unfortunately, unfortunately, and we'll get to this later, that that propaganda has stuck when it comes to Africa overall, quote unquote, the dark continent. Congo in particular, quote unquote, the heart of darkness. So what that does is it numbs people's minds as to what is happening. Because when they see what's happening in the Congo and Africa, they say, oh, that's always happened.

You know, these are, as Fasci said, be still, folk. They're less than human. There's always been conflict and there will always be conflict. So this narrative of the pejorative narrative of this, uh, the pejorative narrative of this backward African, less than human African, helps to cover the crimes that are being committed against Congolese and other Africans. So that's an important component of the destruction of these communities in the Congo and Africa writ large. That propaganda that goes with it. Very well said. But with that oppression, with that brutality also comes the African people standing up defending themselves and fighting back, either the masses themselves or even these historic leaders that we look back on with a lot of praise. And one of those leaders is somebody that has been mentioned a couple times already in this conversation, which is the great revolutionary Patrice Lamumba. Can you tell us a little bit more about who La Mumba was, what he contributed to the Congolese masses and their struggle for self-determination, and what his legacy.

is in the country and on the continent as a whole to this day. For me, Lumumba was a young man, and I think today I have the same age of Lumumba. And it was just someone who was conscious. It was, and they used to call him someone who's root because the situation that we're living brings, you know, incites in ourselves kind of anger. And if you're not part of this, this answer. It means that you're just naive, you're indifferent. And I think Rumba was this leader, I mean, the Germans, it was the visionary.

He had a vision of change. So you were saying come up in another level of freedom and self-determination and self-sufficiency. And that's what Rulumba was, it was someone who was like a murderer. a small model, that could just start, a big model, which is the population. He's the person who gave us the envy so far.

Because, idyllically speaking, Lumba is not dead. And for us, we need to understand his vision. Because here in Congo, Lumumba is not known. Not only understood, but is not known. That's why, with the support

of the Congo, our organization race is trying to sensitize, to teach the message about the speeches of Womba. It's worthwhile noting that Lomba was not working as a nationalist. It was supported by Pan-African leaders like from Kuma. And this is why these Belgians and these, let's say, these international forces couldn't let them, just exploits. And I mean, practice his vision, his strategies, his plan for the Congo. People do not know that the Wumba had an economic plan of the Congo, and that was not known. He started talking about the economic aspects of Congo, and that's the beginning of the attack

and the threats to make him kill. And let's talk about the heritage of the Numbra. So we young Congolese, we try to continue the struggle of Lumumba by understanding these words, because we always say that people need to include his vision in

the constitution of Congo. They should make them like laws, because people always claim that Lumumba was in a hurry to ask the independence. He could wait for some more years. And I said, no, you are not living in the context of Lumumba that time.

It is like today, people who are not interested in what is happening in Eastern Congo. And they think that this is another country. For example, here in the justice, some people say that, no, the problem of Eastern Congo, the armed conflict in Eastern Congo, that's not interested. It's about another part of country. So for us, Lumumba, He's someone who could see Congo in all angles. No matter his tribe, he couldn't care about his tribe. But today you are seeing people who are leading dear Cibber, being based on their tribal, the ethnic origins. And so Numbra was someone who could unite Congo.

We have more tribes and he could see the future of the whole country, not only from his background, from Batatela tribe. But you could see that his political parts could involve all these corners of the country, so north, south, eastern and western part of the country, which was different from the president, the former president, the first president of Congo, someone who could say that Abaco is the association of one tribe called the Bakonvo. So this is different from Lomba who could see the future of the country by trying to mobilize. He was a popular leader because he could read and try to report the revolutionary messages, strategies from people like Gandhi.

When he met people like Khrmeng Krumah, he could understand the future of this country. And the impact of DRC as a global country, as a global country, like, Francozano said that we are the trigger. And I think if we use the forces, the materials that Congo has got today, we can change all half. And this has been proven. And this has been analyzed and confirmed. That's what I may say about the moonbar. Yeah, very important stuff there and very well said. And like you said, instead of being like the previous president, merely a sort of tribal leader or representing one faction of the Congolese people figures like Patrice Lumumba sought to unite the entire country

unite the people of the Congo as well as the people of Africa Kwame Nakruma, Thomas Sankara, there's a long line of other African leaders in that same revolutionary tradition as well which is absolutely gorgeous and beautiful and for those interested we did recently an episode on Kwame Nakruma with two members from the Black Alliance for Peace So if anybody listening wants to learn more about Kwame Nakrumah and what went on in Ghana and the connections with Lumumba, definitely check that episode out. Before we move on to the present, though, Maurice, did you have anything you wanted to add to that question about Lamumba or anything else about history before we move into the present? Yes, yes. I'm so glad that Pass he intervened the way he did by sharing how young Congolese are embracing the visions and the ideas and the teachings of Lumumba, which lets us know.

unequivocally, and that Lumumba lives, that our upholding Lumumba is of value and importance to this generation, not of solely of Congolese, but of young Africans. Just from the outside, I wanted to, just a few things to compliment what Patsy said. Based on what Patsy shared about Lumoamah being concerned about not only the future of Congo, future of Africa, and his relationship with Kwameh Khruman, Khrman wrote a book entitled The Challenge of the Congo, where he laid out how he and Lumumba had agreed that Congo would serve as the capital of the United States of Africa in Kwame and Krumma's pan-Afican vision. And this represented a tremendous threat to the imperialist, to the

colonialist, which explains in part why the Central Intelligence Agency the United States, led by its central intelligence agency, mounted the largest covert action in the world at the time in 1960s to overthrow and ultimately assassinate Patrice Lumumba. Larry Devlin in his book, Chief of Station Congo, said that they had to overthrow Lumumba. If they didn't overthrow Lumumba, then not only would West have lost Congo, they would have lost all of Africa. So he centers Congo in the future of the Afghan continent.

And in his book, he lays out the playbook for overthrowing democratically elected leaders. Just as the U.S. admitted Mosaddek in Iran, Allende later in Chile, Guatemala as well, overthrowing their elected leader. I think it was Arbenza, if I'm not mistaken. So Lumumba fit in those leaders from the global South that have been targeted by the Central Intelligence Agency and sister Susan Williams and their book, White Mallet, she said it was kind of interesting. She said, I started out writing a book about Lumumba and Encrumah.

That's what I wanted to do about because Lumumba was radicalized by Encruma coming out of the 1958 All African People's conferences. If you look at Lumumba pre-58 and post-158, you see a different Lumumba. Pre-58, more of integrationists, wanting to get along. Post-58, after meeting Fanon and Surrey and certainly in Krumah, at the All-Afghan People's Conference, you find a different Lumumba arguing for a self-determined Congo, self-sufficient Congo, a Congo that fits within the context

of Africa, pan-African Congo. So Susan Williams said that she wanted to write this story about these two giants of leaders, but everywhere she turned, the CIA kept getting in the way. She said, I couldn't, wherever I did the research, the CIA was there. So I had to go back to my,

she said, I had to go back to my, you know, my collaborators and share with them. Like, they just keep getting away. And they said, well, just write about it. So that's how she came up with White Mallet, which looks at, in Huma and Lumumba, certainly not about the role of the CIA in forwarding Lumumba, overturning the nation-democratic institutions or aspirations, rather, that were in the Congo, just deracinating or whatever, uprooting, whatever hopes or aspirations

that the Congolese people would have. the line of democracy and imposing on the Congolese people a corrupt, how can I say, self-serving elite exemplified by Joseph Desiream Wooty, who pulled the CIA, helped to install. And in fact, in the U.S. records, it's declassified documents that they state that in the first, every leader that came to power in the first 10 years of the Congo's independent outside of Lumumba, there wasn't a decision that

was made that had to do with the leadership and the power being held by Congolese that the CIA didn't have a hand in. And for all intents and purposes since Lumumba, every leader that has risen to power in the Congo

has had to have the stamp or the imprint, the sign-off of the United States. So that external role, the role that was played by the Central Intelligence Agency, by the United States government in cahoots with the United Nations in Belgium and the UK, and the psychopaths, the local elite must be told when we talk about Lumumba and why he was overthrown so quickly. He inaugurated on June 30th, 1960, assassinated.

on January 17, 1961, less than seven months. They didn't give him any time, but they knew how dangerous he was to their interest, how much of a threat he was to their interest. They had to get rid of him quickly. So, but what Pathy said that they may have gotten rid of the body, but the ideas, the teachings, the spirit, we live in young people like Pathy

and countless others in the Congo, which gives us a tremendous amount of hope for the future of the Congo. African overall. Yes. Yes, and I highly encourage listeners to get the book, White Malice. You know, from our perspective, as somebody who's born and raised here in the belly of the beast, you know, the CIA is the organized crime branch of the United States ruling class. It's the largest, the most powerful terrorist organization on earth. And I hope one day its agency and its perpetrators within the agency face the justice that they so desperately need to face because what the CIA and the U.S. government has done around the world is a

disgrace. It's disgusting. And as somebody who is born here, I'm eternally repulsed by how our government and its agencies have operated around the world. And for then the U.S. to turn around and try to tell the world that they're the number one defenders of freedom and democracy around the world. It's just nauseating. But like Fred Hampton here in Chicago said, you can kill a revolutionary, but you can't kill a revolution. And so by killing these, these leaders of the African people, Pan-African leaders, they have inspired continued generations. They've made martyrs out of these leaders. And their spirits and their legacies continue to live on and really offer the best hope for Africa as a whole going forward into the future.

So I salute the fallen martyrs of Pan-Africanism. Absolutely. Now let's go ahead and move into the present state of things. Now that we have a fairly good grasp on some of the basic history involved. Can you tell us what's sort of been happening lately in the Congo and what your organization is trying to do in light of recent events? Yeah. Thank you. Not later that yesterday, thanks to Fradal of the Congo and Bratham Race, and we now's a rally, a demonstration, a peaceful demonstration on the support, okay, and denouncing this occupation of the Bonagana City of is still Congo. So, so far, we have reached 600 days. The country, I mean, that's territory is being occupied by rebels supported by, by Rihanda and Uganda. So many atrocities being done

to occupying and with the participation in support of some unconscious Congolese, okay, who tend to claim for, I don't know, the integration in the army. That's the, the very recent information, and they are near Goma, Goma, town. They want to reach Goma and try to control the North Cape province, and even the South Cape province, and this is the recent situation because security is very important. When there is no peace in the country, it is difficult to change, to develop. the country. So we as young leaders

we went there, we tried to denounce, try to make a mass movementization and message to the population. We tried to denounce to remind. We went there in the general assembly, the Congress, to let those

MPs, those congressmen who are corrupt, they have more salaries than the teachers who could tell the the discussion, who could prepare the these children, these children and students who led to change the country. Let me focus on this because these people, they are correct by the government. These politicians who give them money, they give them some cars just to make laws for their,

I mean, their authorities, their government, they are maintaining in power. But they are not fighting, they are not denouncing what is happening. because security, the Eastern Congo, which is the most and the richest part of the country, is very, very important, is crucial, it is very capital of the development of the country. So the moral that that's one will be in insecurity, less the development of the country will come. That's why you can see after the elections, the president was being declared, okay, the winner, He won the elections. We know how these elections will help us. And now they are doing nothing.

Of course, it is good to support activities like sports. And there is more interested in sports rather than denouncing, rather than fighting back these rebels. Make sure that these rebels, they had some agreements. They had some collaboration before launching, before going on there, and the front line, they had some meetings here in Kinshasa. And these rebels, the M-23, the rebels and movements, they had some contract. They didn't know what they are fighting for, and they have some agreements in collaboration. They have, you know how we work with the government. The problem is that we, young people, we need to have species.

And that's why the organization, we are trying to mobilize the masses. And this month we will try to reach these social groups of street children because they are victims. And most of them are from the soldiers, the families which are attacked by soldiers who were killed on the phone line. And we need to work with these groups on the crowd. So insecurity is very important in the Eastern Congo, this will affect the development and the change of the country. That's what I may say on what is going on now, because without peace, we can't do anything, cannot mobilize.

That's where we are working for the moment. Thank you. Absolutely, and I wish you in your organization the absolute best. But Maurice, would you like to add anything to that? Talk a little bit more about this rebel group, M23, and then maybe even touch on the role that U.S. imperialism is playing in this current conflict? Sure, sure. It's so good to have the view from Passy, really from the ground up, you know,

what he's facing, what other young people are facing on a daily basis and trying to politically educate and mobilize the masses for change in the Congo. And all that ought to be placed in the context of a 25-year war of aggression and plunder that's being waged against the Congolese people by proxies or allies of the United States. And I'm speaking specifically of government of Rwanda, led by Paul Kagami, who was recently in Washington, D.C., being fetid by members of the Congressional Black Caucus and other politicians. speaking of figures like Yari Moussoveni, the leader of Uganda.

And what has happened, Brett, we talked about Lohumbra and the overthrow of Lombo. We talked about the imposition of Joseph Desiree Mobutu over the Congolese people from 1965 to 1997, where the United States installed and maintained Mobutu in power. Every time Congolese rose up to get rid of him, the U.S. would crush the people send in forces or get its allies to go in and work with Mobutu to crush the resistance and by the time we got to the end of the Cold War and Mobutu was no longer used to the U.S.,

they wanted to get rid of them. And at that time, there were burgeoning pro-democracy movements building up all over the continent. And the same happened in the Congo. They had what they call a national, the sovereign national conference, where the people who are demanding change and overthrow of the dictatorship. So instead of the United States supporting that, the pro-democracy forces in the Congo, what they did was, and final analysis, was the back and invasion of the Congo by their allies, Rwanda and Uganda in particular.

They invaded in 1996, installed a leader of their choice in 1996 in Lauren Kabila, and Kabila wanted to shake himself loose. from Rwanda and Uganda, which he did, by reaching out to, by, you got rid of the Rwandan hold on them, and Rwanda and Uganda wanted to maintain control of the Congo, so they invaded again in 1998, and Lauren Kabila reached out to Southern African Development Community, Zimbabwe, Namibia, Angola to come to his rescue, and they were able to beat back the U.S.-backed invasion by Rwanda and Uganda in 1998. And that 1998, 1996 and 1998 invasion triggered what the United Nations says,

a deadliest conflict in the world since World War II, where an estimated 6 million Congolese perished as a result of the conflict and conflict-related causes. Now, there was a treaty in 2002, a peace deal, but Rwanda and Uganda wanted to maintain control and access to the resources in the Congo. Ever since they invaded, if you look at their state books, things like gold and timber for Uganda as skyrocketed in terms of exports coming out of Uganda. Resources like Coltan and Tin skyrocketed.

If you look at the books of Rwanda's books, Rwanda is now proclaimed as the leading producer of Koltan in the world, Koltan that it gets out of the Congo. So in order to maintain those interests, both countries have sponsored militia groups in the Congo from since the end of the treaty in 2002 right up to the present. M23 is basically the latest expression of Rwanda's, in particular Rwanda's role in the Congo in utilizing militia group to destabilize the east of the Congo. so that it can exercise control and retain access to the resources coming out of the east of the Congo. We've mobilized when Obama was in the presidency, friends of the Congo and others mobilized to put pressure on him to withhold military aid from Rwanda in an effort to staunch Rwanda's influence and role in destabilizing Eastern Congo. In fact, when Obama, President Obama, Barack Obama was a senator, he crafted a bill that got passed into law,

public law 109, 456, the Democratic Republic of the Congo, relief security, and democracy promotion act. And one section of that law said that the United States is authorized, as authorized its Secretary of State to withhold aid to any countries that destabilized the Congo. So we were saying to President Obama, this is your law. Your ally, Rwanda, is destabilizing the east of Congo. Obama got on the phone called Kagami, told him to stay out of the Congo, published it as a readout, you know, signaling to people who are putting pressure on him, say, hey, this is what I'm doing.

But that wasn't enough. And then he finally decided to withhold $200,000 at aid. This was about 2012 to the Rwandan military. That wasn't enough, of course. but what it did was it triggered other European nations to do the same, and they would have tens of millions of aid to Rwanda, and that helped to squash the M23. But in 2021, Kagami revived its support for the M23,

and they continue to destabilize the east of the Congo to this day. They're responsible for a million people being displaced, of the 7 million that's been displaced in the Congo, and the occupied territory as, as a passage just shared Buna, one of the main areas that M23 occupied,

which they couldn't do without the backing of Rwanda. And Rwanda, it would have been impossible for Rwanda to do what it has done in the Congo for the past 25 years without the diplomatic, without the United States and the United

Kingdom, running diplomatic interference, providing political cover for the Paul Kagamis and the Yarosvenis. So the U.S. is part of the problem in that it has blocked justice, it has prevented accountability, and for all intents and purposes facilitated the impunity that we see in the region because of its support, continued support in terms of funding, in terms of arming, in terms of providing equipment, in terms of providing training, in terms of providing intelligence to Paul Kagami, Rwandan government, and certainly to Yerubusivani

of Uganda. So that's really the core of the conflict, the heart of the conflict in the east of the Congo. And even after the recent elections, in December, with President Chesqued, who's been in power for five years, saying that he's going to do something about what's happening in the East, but he hasn't. That's past year. And that has, played into that continuous ability that we see in the east of the Congo to this very day. Yeah, I really thank you for that amazing breakdown of many years of history, the role the U.S. government has played in it all. Yeah, just fascinating and really tragic stuff, of course, in the Eastern Congo right now,

they're dealing with killings, atrocities, displacement, dispossession, and all in an attempt to destabilize that entire region for ultimately the benefit of a small amount of people. to have access to the profits that come from minerals in the area. And that really is an important aspect of all of this, you know. And one of the main minerals that are, is constantly in the news, is cobalt. And cobalt mining plays a really important role in the global economy. And also for this purported green capitalist transition in air quotes that the West talks about incessantly, they need coal bolt for those products.

We use them in lithium batteries. We use them in our smartphones. We use them in electric vehicles, et cetera, et cetera. But mining this stuff is incredibly dangerous. Cobalt itself is toxic. And Congolese children, families, mothers, and more are the ones forced to toil in and around these mines for these consumer goods and for these minerals. So can you please talk about this situation in particular, the conditions that poor people in the Congo have to toil under in these mines and how the rest of the world, especially the West, benefits from what amounts to modern-day. slavery. Yeah. Thank you.

I'll be as short as possible because this is a practical truth about these minerals, not only Cobot, let's talk about the old, Iranian and other minerals, and from the region called Kamituka, where the Iranian is

strad in other minerals or cobalt are around the earth. But the point is that we have two kinds of extraction of these animals. We have these houndscraft, these local population, local people who extract minerals from there, local, I mean, local tools. They have some spades. They use hans, hound crops. They don't have materials.

And there is another kind of exploitation of these minerals. in minerals. We can see Chinese people, let's say, Canadians and other associations, exporting golf as far as these products, natural

products are considered. So the point is that I remember one day, I was, I haven't experienced with Bandro Cooperation, because when you are extracting goat, you have what we call castoridso, and you

a portion of cobalts, copper, and other projects from when they're extracting gold, for example. And the point is that they bring all these raw materials, but the products are extracting abroad, not in Congo. They are taking raw materials, but the products are being changed and transformed in the countries which are supporting these multination. organization and this is the issue and I'm there to condemn the kind of conscience that our governments are signing secretly or let's say official so sometimes you can hear them these politicians let me attack directly our ongoing president who is saying that we are attacking these atrocities but we know that they

make him sign some countries But when it comes to the media, it says something which is contrary, and is claiming to condemn to lay his Polkagame and all these groups which are extracting these minerals. And these mining shafts are being both supported by the governments and these foreign forces. Let me mention something about the neighboring countries. they have some controls I listen about the collaboration between 23 and the government they know how they collaborate

and the problem that they do not tell the truth to the population they can't and lie to the population and this is not the Lwomba's vision of the Congo and the question is that if Rangbba was there if you were there what could he do

the Womba experienced the same situation but he was as courage as possible to denounce and to say no to those kinds of deportation. Remember someone who was claiming to be the president of DRC, but inviting Polka Ghanai here in Chasa to come and commemorates a given national event. Someone who is being supported by the U.S. to expose our meals to fund these, these are rebel groups. Because it's worth mentioning that this rebel movement only focus on these mineral places where we can find minerals. They will never come here in Kansas because this western part of the country is not having it.

These places do not have minerals. They always go there and that's where you can see the conflict is being supported. And the point is that sometimes you can see the kind of betrayal between our army. And this is the point. Our army is made up with people who are collaborating with these forces, these foreign institutions. Because the war that we're experiencing, which is based on materials, has got two aspects. sometimes they act directly by funding organizations, these corporations, these companies which explodes these minerals, also they try to fund these rebels in so many armed groups.

So that's the way they act. Sometimes they come softly and they also come hard. They work hard by using, supporting them with some materials, fighting materials, like drones and just to control these materials, these devices which can control the places where the meals are located. This is how they try to control because our government is not able to have even a satellite.

So we don't have, I mean the scientific device, I mean the scientific capacity to control the minerals. Even in the country, we are not able to control by ourselves what is happening at which time and where is the conflict taking place and who is controlling the Congolian state is not existing and that's why you can see that we are not controlling the land it is the problem of land because the soul is very rich and we are not able to control these places because we are corrupt so this is the point about these mean rules so the kinds of contract that needs to be sad should be signed by people who are aware of the situation of the country and who are not as corrupt because

it is good. We have just been elected and they have power, they have fighters to control the country and but shouldn't know how investors come in the country and what are the tangible

actions. So truth about the situation. In agriculture, And industry, and let's say, in the main goal, say, are two opposite actions. When these organizations come and implant or can implement their offices in these places, they come with their materials, but they do not consider the needs of the local population, but the government is supporting their actions. That's what I can say in this of these organizations, whether they are sending official

agreements or secrets agreements the needs to be identified and we have to impose our sovereignty as far as the economy and the control of the minerals in the law discussion. Thank you. Yeah, so really well said before I handed off to Maurice just to reiterate some points. Absolutely great point about it's not just coal bolt. Coalbolt is one of the things that we often hear about

in the headlines, but there's gold, uranium, copper, and much more. It's just a very, it's an incredibly rich area in natural resources, as you're saying, and it's the land of the Congolese, but yet the Congolese don't have control and haven't had control of that land and of those riches and of those resources through these factors of neocolonialism, imperialism, funding these rebel groups, corporations, as you were mentioning, funding and arming rebels and armed groups continue to keep Eastern Congo in this destabilized position. So it's more. easy to exploit and take advantage of. And when you have corruption in government and you have collaborators in the Army, it makes all of this much, much more difficult. So I really appreciate

that breakdown. It's incredibly important. Maurice, would you like to add anything to any of that or say anything at all about this situation? Yes, yes. That's incredibly important. And that's one of our main organizing aims at France, the Congo, to work in concert with the Congolese so that they ultimately control and determine their own affairs, control their land, control their resources, control their country, everything that we do in terms of the raising awareness and engaging people, being on with you to Brett, is to channel people. to that very central and particular purpose. And imagine, imagine if Congolese did control the cobalt in that they're producing. They produced 70% of the world's cobalt. If you add up all the countries in the world who produce cobalt, they don't equal what Congo produces.

Cobalt is a central ingredient in rechargeable batteries, which is indispensable. to the so-called green or clean energy transition. You know, Gavin Newsom and his 2035 plan for California to go carbon-free by, or combustion engine free by 2035, it can't happen without cobalt coming out of the, out of the Congo. So the Congo is a major player. in this sector. Unfortunately, as Pasi said that the Congolese people are not the primary beneficiary

and they're not even the primary owners of the cobalt. And right now, what we see is and Pasi's right around the cobalt. Cobalt is really a byproduct of copper and nickel. It's not something that's produced by, extracted by itself. Right now, what we see

is this geostrategic battle unfolding for control of Congo's cobalt, where the United States trying to confront China. China has got its belt and road initiative that is undertaking. And the United States, in response to China's Belt and Road initiative, has initiated what they called the PGII, that's the partnership for global infrastructure and investment. And one of the signal features of the partnership for global and infrastructure investment

is the Mobito Rail Corridor. That is a rail line that has been established from Coahuasie, the heart of the cobal capital of the world, right out through to the Lovito port in Angola that enables critical minerals that are vital to U.S. industries to get out of the Congo more efficiently with less cost and less time

as opposed to minerals being shipped out to South Africa or through Tanzania. Just last week, the company that is, taking the lead in concert with the United States. Ivan O. Mines, as the CEO, Robert Freeland was on, talking about how this is going to help propel Congo from a third leading producer of copper in the world to ultimately to number one.

And all this is taking place, really, above with, how can I say, above the level of the Congolese people like they're not benefiting from this the Comprador class of course whose class interests are more in alignment with foreign capital and the global elites than they are with the local Congolese people

that's why we saw to just yesterday Congolese were demonstrating around the occupation of their land in the east of the country, they were arrested by the government, which makes sense because the interests are not aligned. They're not their interests aren't with the Congolese people. But the point is that there's a global game that's unfolding, and instead of the Congolese people being part of it and benefiting to whatever extent it could, they're victims of it, you know,

children who are in the mines who are being killed. We had a delegation that was traveling on the road from Coahuasie to mining capital to Lubombashi in just a few days, two days ago. And they had to go, they were going through a demonstration that was being led by diggers against one of the major minds in the Congo, the tankie, Fugurumi, and the security forces and the presidential guard were called in to crush the average worker that was organizing to try and exist, really. But in coming up against the corporate forces, they were the security forces of the Congolese government

came in and fired on them and killed a number of them and injured many others. So that's the challenge that we see Congolese facing as the whole world was looking to move from the combustion engine to electric vehicles. And really, I want to take this moment to make an appeal to progressive forces, to labor unions, to climate justice advocates. We saw how they rallied in the United States around the workers

at the top of the, what they call it, the EV supply chain, where the United Auto Workers collaborated with our 350.org and the Sierra Club and others to protect the interests of the worker in the wake of the passing of the information inflation reduction act, what some of them claim to be the largest climate bill in the world. I don't know if that's the case, but in any case, they rallied around the workers with the UAW to protect those workers at the top of the supply chain. What we're trying to share and let the world know is like there is no top of the supply chain, EV supply chain, without a bottom.

And at the bottom of the EV supply chain, the children are catching hell, the women are catching hell, the local population they're catching hell they're suffering from what we call the three deeds death as I shared with you

how security forces fire on workers and kill them uh he thought earlier about the hand digging up using hands to dig for minerals

they call it artisanal and small scale mining where they dig deep into the ground and sometimes they're caveans and injuries so you have the death that's taking place

among local population and then there is destruction, destruction of the environment. The dust that comes from the mining of the industrial mines that go into the air and land on the plants and kill the plants so people can't farm or land in the water and kill the fish in the water, pollute the water, so there's no potable water.

People cannot get food from fish in the water and feed themselves. So the destruction of water and ways get polluted and the destruction of the environment. And then there's displacement. Wherever you see in mine, there used to be a village, people living there. But they're displaced in order to facilitate the extraction of those resources. And they're not compensated.

They promised health care. They promised education. They're promised housing. And they get either none of it or very little of it. So these three deeds, the death, the destruction and the displacement is what are what the people at the bottom of the supply chain are reaping. therefore it's incumbent upon us who are advocating for those at the top of the supply chain to also include those who are at the bottom of the supply chain and that's very critical when it comes to the Congo

when we're talking about quote unquote green energy transition because even Congo is really two sides of one coin you talk about the green energy transition and a critical part of that is the combating the climate crisis Congress is a part of the second largest rainforest in the world, which is vital in combating the climate crisis. Congo Basin sequestered more carbon than all the tropical rainforests combined. And Congo is home to the largest tropical peatlands, the size of England, a literal, virtual carbon bomb, that if it's not protected, could release up to 20 years of U.S. worth of pollution into the atmosphere.

So when it comes to combating the climate crisis, facilitating the green or so-called clean energy transition, Congo is front and center looms large, but the activists, the policy makers, the decision-makers do not take Congo into considerations, especially those who are at the bottom of the supply chain, whose voices are much uplift, whose interests we want to spite for, as a really as a means for getting to the heart of the matter, which is where we want to see Congolese control and determine the fears of the common. Yeah, incredibly moving and so important. And I hope that's one of the main lessons people take away from this episode and other episodes that we've done is that in order to fight climate change, which all human beings on Earth have a vested interest in combating the destabilization of our climate system on Earth, we have to tie that with the struggles against capitalism and colonialism, because liberals will tell you this pretty story about how we're transitioning away from fossil fuels into green technology, but their entire ideology is premised on hiding the deep suffering of the people, as Marie said, at the bottom of that chain that make the entire thing possible.

and I do not want a solution to climate change that comes with the brutalization of innocent men, women, and children anywhere on the earth, including and especially in the Congo. And so when we talk about climate change, we should also talk about the Congo. When we talk about a transition, we should talk about the bottom of that supply line and how the labor at the point of extraction needs to be treated with dignity and fairness and deep global international protection so that they can have a dignified life and that they can have the justice that they deserve and control over their own labor and control over their own lives or else we are building a climate transition on the bodies and on the bones of human beings. and that is just going to continue and perpetuate the deep injustices that have racked this world for centuries. And so I really, really applaud both of you, Pasi for your on the ground work, fighting with the masses, doing political education, trying to organize for your people. You're a genuine hero, and I deeply appreciate you, Maurice, for coming on and sharing your deep well of knowledge with us on this subject as well. Before we let you go, can you please let us know what we in the West, if anything,

can do to help our brothers and sisters in the Congo and what resources or other recommendations you would offer to anyone listening who might want to learn more about this issue and help in whatever ways they can. Definitely. Thank you. And I need to get the recording of that last piece that you did stated and play it on loop for sure because you're so on point. Thank you. We encourage people to support this movement around the Congo, the Solidarity Movement, go to free Congo, Freecongo dot org.

Encourage people to go to free Congo dot org. When they go there, there will be three things

that they'll be able to do. They could donate. They could sign a petition

where there's a lawsuit that's being brought against major tech companies that we're

pressuring the companies to settle the suit as brought on behalf of 14 Congolese children and

their families. We're also pressuring the Biden administration not to live none of that, not that we're supportive of sanctions, but not to lift the sanctions that's been

posed on Dan Gertler in Israeli business type phoony, who's made billions off the Congo and repatriated that money to Israel to support settler colonialism in Israel. So we're calling on the Biden administration not to lift the sanctions that's been imposed on Gertler by the Treasury Department. We call on the Biden administration to, at the very least, do what Obama did with the whole military hate from Rwanda. does not continue to destabilize the Congo. So you'll have the option to take action in those three policy areas. And then finally, for people to fill out a form.

They want to join the movement, get more involved, go and connect with Passing the underground, one of our delegations, support the organizations that we're supporting on the front lines in the cities like Passies organization, work with street children, indigenous leaders who are in the Congo basin rainforest leaders who are on the front lines of the conflict in the east, and certainly those who are in the mining area. So pre-congo.org, they can donate, they can advocate, and they can join the movement. Pre-congo.org, that is where we encourage people to go to be a part of this effort. Beautiful, and I'll make sure to link to that in the show notes so people can easily find it and go help. And right after we end this conversation, I'm going to go

donate and I'm going to go sign myself. And I encourage anybody listening, to do the same um passy before we let you go is there any last words that that you would want to to say or anything that you'd want to plug or recommend before we before we end yeah thank you for this opportunity thank you for your interest in tango i say thank you to stand of the congo thank you to brother maurice the kind of support uh we're having from them we need more and more funds for making remember being known so last last month on the 17th we tried to We try to mobilize around 200 young Congolese, even old Congolese people about Lumumba. We need more fast to make the meanings of Congolese to know Lumumba.

And this needs requires more administration. We need to make these vulnerable population groups of people like three children who are abandoned. They are abandoned by their families, and most of them are coming from these families whose father's dead on the front line. He died on the war in the Eastern Congo. So we need to mobilize working with more schools. We need to mobilize thousands of Congolese understand who the Mumba was and what is the real vision of Mumba. We are working on the translation of his features. And I said, thank you for this time.

Thank you for the struggle. More details. With Hartus, we are working with artists on the ground. And it's not easy to record songs, to make some videos. We need materials. We need also add the administration support to make our, why not coming up with more centers, cultural centers in poor provinces.

Those are the kind of support of the Haiti. We said, thank you for the founder of the Congo. Thank you for this opportunity. and thank you for T.J. friends. Thank you. Yeah, absolutely. And thank you for all your wonderful work. We send our love and our solidarity to you and the Congolese people and their struggle for self-determination and control over their own land and resources. And Rev. Left, although we're not a huge outlet here in the West, we're here any time. If you ever want to come back on, update us about the situation

or get more information out. You have my email. Please don't hesitate to reach out. So thank you both so much, and I look forward to speaking with you again in the future. Thank you. Thank you. So very much, right. Thank you for listening. Rev Left Radio is 100% listener funded. If you like what we do here, you can support us at patreon.com forward slash RevLeft Radio or make a one-time donation at BuyMea Coffee.com forward slash RevLeft Radio.

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