Rev Left Radio - Gloria La Riva: PSL, Anti-Imperialism, & the Future of the U.S. Left

Episode Date: March 26, 2018

Gloria La Riva joins Brett to discuss her experiences in Cuba and Venezuela, her personal relationship with Fidel Castro and Hugo Chavez, the importance of Anti-Imperialism, engaging in electoral politics as a communist, and much more!  Gloria's recommended Links: - https://www.liberationnews.org/ - http://pslweb.com/ Follow Gloria on twitter: @GloriaLaRiva Here is the book that Gloria recommended: http://store.pslweb.org/Palestine-Israel-and-the-US-Empire_p_10.html Outro Music: Who's Illegal? - Jasiri X Ft Rhymefest Reach us at: [e-mail] Support the Show: https://www.patreon.com/RevLeftRadio follow us on Twitter @RevLeftRadio Follow us on FB at "Revolutionary Left Radio" Intro Music by The String-Bo String Duo. You can listen and support their music here: https://tsbsd.bandcamp.com/track/red-black This podcast is officially affiliated with The Nebraska Left Coalition, the Nebraska IWW, and the Omaha GDC. Check out Nebraska IWW's new website here: https://www.nebraskaiww.org

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Welcome to Revolutionary Left Radio. I'm your host, Ann Comrade, Brett O'Shea. And today we have a very special guest, Gloria LaRiva's on, to talk about a whole slew of issues related to communism, the Revolutionary Left, Cuba, electoral politics, etc. For the few people out there who don't know who you are, Gloria, Would you like to introduce yourself and say a little bit about your background? Yes, I live in San Francisco, many years, over 30 years, but I'm from New Mexico.

I always like to say that because that really shaped my early consciousness. I'm the daughter of my mother was an immigrant from Mexico with the typical jobs of immigrant women, seamstress and sweatshops, waitress. motel made. She did everything to, you know, help raise us. We were six kids. My father was a letter carrier, a Mexican-American, Chicago, and a working-class family, the typical, you know, pretty poor working-class family growing up in the 60s. And it was a time of developing struggle. You know, I remember the time of the civil rights movement in the south of the African-American great, great civil rights struggles. And yet I got involved in politics, left politics when I went to college.

I realized when I got to Brandeis University near Boston that I was there with a scholarship, a full scholarship as a result of black and Latino students basically shutting down the campus. as happened in the year in 1968 when there were shutdowns across the country against the Vietnam War, demanding ethnic studies, fighting racism, demanding affirmative action. And that is how I got to school. And it helped turn me around by the time I was done with my first year of college. I decided I needed to be a communist. And so it took me a while to find organization. it college changed my life because of the struggle.

Absolutely. Well, it's an absolute honor to have you on. I do want to give a shout out to our mutual friend and comrade, Gabriel Gipe. He's been a big fan of the show, supporter of the show, and he's become a friend over the last year since we've done this show. And he was the one that kind of allowed for me and you to have this interview, so I want to make sure he gets his credence up top. But we have a lot to cover. Yeah, you're inspiration to so many of us. so I'm really excited to have you on.

Let's just go ahead and start with some discussions around Cuba and Venezuela because if I'm not mistaken, you've spent lots of time in Venezuela and Cuba and have personally met both Hugo Chavez and Fidel Castro. Can you talk about how those meetings happened, why you met with them and what they were like in person? Well, yes. First of all, I met Fidel starting in the early 1990s. It was always, I had several encounters with him along with some other people. But it was always in the midst of issues involving very key struggles.

In 1992, I first met him during the time of the severe tightening of the U.S. blockade after the Soviet Union in 1990 had cut off all trade with Cuba upon orders of the George Bush administration. And then Cuba passed through the 1990s part of the 2000s in a period called the special period, meaning severe economic downturn of 34% in production because of the collapse of trade with the Soviet Union and socialist camp. Cuba had to find new means of economic survival, tourism, joint ventures. And so it was also a time that the U.S. progressive movement and many activists, friends with Cuba decided that we had to challenge the U.S. strangling blockade. 1992, 1993, I was involved.

I was one of the leading organizers of the Passes for Peace, Ifco, caravans to Cuba, organizing on the West Coast. And we had the chance to meet with Fidel at different times because he was so, I don't know, inspired to see the struggle of people in the U.S. supporting Cuba in a way that we were risking, you know, jail time and breaking the illegal blockade. I had times of conversations with him. I've spoken a number of times about when I was invited, I was one of the lead organizers of the protests to demand the little boy Elian Gonzalez to free him from the. his captors in Miami, distant relatives that were really being fueled by the right wing in Miami. And the morning that he was, you know, rescued by the FBI in April 2000, I was given a call to come speak in Cuba at the million people May Day March, which was astounding.

It was a great, great honor to be there. and I met Fidel again. I saw him again the day before and I handed him a letter from Mumia Abu Jamal and Fidel immediately said we have to take up his case we won't let him be executed because he was at the verge

he was in danger of execution and so Fidel called for a national television program sort of like the nightline news here you know a two-hour talk show at night so the whole country learned about Mumia

and then when it was scheduled at that time a African American young man in Texas was on the verge of being executed sadly he was executed he was the last execution under George Bush as governor of Texas

running for president that was like his test case can you murder again and Cuba stood up for him thanks to Fidel and I'll never forget that night when Fidel asked me, goes, well, what is his, what is

Mumia's situation? Tell me and I told him how all his legal avenues of appeal were cut off by Clinton's law. And Fidel said, well then we have to raise the stakes so high politically they can't execute him.

And to me that was a real all that and everything. When you read the whole life of Fidel, his extreme courage and ability to understand the will willingness of his people to fight with leadership, I consider him one of the greatest heroes of the peoples of the world of the 20th and the 21st century.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, he's, we've done many episodes on Cuba on this podcast, and he's an absolute inspiration to me personally and to the show. And so hearing that sort of individual personal meeting you had with him over multiple occasions, it just continues to add to that fact that he was one of the most courageous revolutionaries of the century. How about Hugo Chavez? I mean, maybe it wasn't as extensive as your relationship with Castro, but if I'm not mistaken, you did meet him. How did that go down?

Well, yeah, I met him a few times as well. But, you know, one doesn't have to meet either Hugo or Fidel to know their role in history. Chavez was a young man. really he was two weeks older than me so he passed through the same years that i did as a young person however he was from venezuela and yet he was very inspired by cuba the revolution by fidel and as growing up very poor his life was shaped in consciousness always caring about the poor understanding what it was to be hardworking communities who had nothing because of capitalism. And again, he also was very courageous being in the military organizing secretly a group of soldiers

and seeking an alliance with civilian left forces in order to overthrow the right-wing government. and so he took it upon himself to do that in 1992 and so he was propelled into this heroic role and I got to meet him in 2001 when I first went to Venezuela it was two years into his administration where the right wing national assembly still had the power and he was not able to get everything accomplished that he wanted but he had already done significant things and I remember marching in a march with him I was very close to him he was packed with his supporters

his his security and the people just thronging him it was this very emotional intense march through the streets and I videotaped him I saw him where the poor people who had

were suffering lack of housing lack of jobs hunger were coming up to him approaching him getting through the crowds, giving him little pieces of paper with their contact and saying, you know, you know, commandante, please, I need your help. We need help. And he would assign his men and women to follow through on them. It was so much love that he had and love that they had for him.

I never forget, I was videotaping, and people would say to me, because they knew the U.S. media, you know, demonizing the country and Chavez, and they'd say, You tell the truth. Tell the truth about our country, about our revolution. You know, and it's tragic that he was not able to live longer. He was 58, and yet he accomplished so much. But the struggle continues. Absolutely. People continue to say that they are Chalista, and he is the inspiration for that.

Both Castro and Chavez remind me of that Che Guevara saying where he's like, you know, a revolutionary is motivated by a great, by great feelings of love. And I think it applies to both of those leaders as they really cared about their people and they really cared about lifting up the poor and working people who have historically, you know, been just oppressed in numerous ways. And also, also, if I may, the fact that they knew that it meant the need for a new system, that it wasn't just love for the people and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and solidarity, but knowing that the people have the power and the people must be in power. And that's why they were both socialists, both revolutionaries, knowing that capitalism had to be overturned.

Great point, yeah. So speaking of Chavez specifically, what are your thoughts on Maduro in the situation in Venezuela currently? I admire Maduro in the incredible challenges that he and the other revolutionary leadership and the masses are facing with a very, very severe economic war going on that's created a lot of hardship for people. I met Maduro very early on too. I met him in 2001 as well. He's interesting because he was a young revolutionary, a socialist, an activist, a bus driver. He was a worker where unions weren't allowed in the transit system, and yet he organized the workers in a union. And being a worker with high consciousness as a socialist, he's very radical. I met him before in Cuba, but I met him in a conference that I was invited to in 2001

where the Bolivarian left was trying to democratize the very corrupt pro-imperialist led, you know, led by pro-imperialist Union Federation, the CTV. And the attempt of Chavez's people was to change it democratize, it bring progressive elements in it and there was a lot of kind of jockeying among different left groups and other you know unionists and i was very impressed with maduro that he wasn't seeking uh in those days some sort of prominence it was very mature in his ability to bring people together and describe the priorities you know as one more activist and he was an early early supporter of Chavez when Chavez was in prison after Chavez was put in prison for attempting

the beginnings of the overthrow of the government and Maduro was by his side along with others who were very inspired. The people were very inspired by Chavez. So Chavez had a lot of confidence in Maduro. He had a big circle of people around him that he had confidence in. But when it came to the final month of his life and he He knew, Chavez knew, with his extreme authority among the people and the severe challenges economically they were going through the coup attempt, the attempt to sabotage the oil industry that had happened previously, all the things that Chavez knew the people would face upon his death. He spoke to the people before he went to Cuba for the final surgical intervention and he basically pleaded with the people. on television, that if there were a need for a new election to please support Magoodle, he basically nominated him.

And I thought that was very wise, that he had to try to continue his authority and the authority that he had as a leader to continue the unity that would be needed more than ever. And I think today, the unity of the people against U.S. intervention, against the right-wing opposition inside against the billion dollar campaigns of the U.S. inside the country of counterinsurgency, subversion is more important than ever to overcome the economic crisis that they're facing, the economic war of the major capitalist importers and other corporations in the country, the threats of U.S. Latin American intervention right now with Tillerson, a few weeks ago traveling through visiting the right-wing governments from Mexico to Peru to

Colombia to Panama to now Argentina and Brazil and Tillerson calling on the military in Venezuela to overthrow Maduro which that's not going to happen I think it's very highly unlikely because the military has been basically reformed in the years of Chavez I can't say that it's never, never, some sort of an act isn't going to happen. There have been a couple of individuals attempting sort of a coup, but it's a strongly pro-revolution military at this point. But still there's threats from the United States. They're very worried about the very likelihood that Madhuda will be re-elected on May 20th

in the coming presidential election because his moves of last year of creating a new, constituent assembly, which has basically superseded the national, the right-wing, extremely right-wing national assembly that won the majority in 2015. His new constituent assembly is going to reshape the already very democratic constitution into becoming more to meet the needs of the people. Long story, but I basically think that the people of the U.S., the progressive movement, the movement, the left forces need to understand what is at play in Venezuela and defend the Bolivarian Revolution, support President Avudo in the coming election and the coming

struggle because it's supporting the people. And if anybody wants to learn more about that, we have an entire episode literally called in defense of the Bolivarian Revolution in our back catalog if you want to learn more about what's happening and how we can stand up for them. But it's worth pointing out the total hypocrisy of the U.S. and the U.S. media, you know, they're apoplectic over the concept that Russia, you know, to some extent, meddled in our elections when the entire history of the U.S. is a constant just wave of meddling and funding right-wing death squads and staging coups all over the

world, especially in Latin America. And so when we hear this narrative coming out of U.S. media outlets that, you know, Venezuela is turning to a dictatorship, I would argue that the Venezuelan elections are more open and free and fair than the U.S. elections. Oh, yes. I've been in Venezuela during previous elections where all the candidates get space on TV. Right. Even the right wing gets space on TV. And they come up with their ridiculous promises and they'll say, oh, we've got to fix the garbage in the streets.

You know, okay, fine, that's a problem. But you're not going to solve it. Anyway, there's a lot more access for people. And in Cuba, elections are free. the people don't spend money on elections and their candidates are nominated in the neighborhoods and in the higher in the National Assembly in the provincial half the people are selected to represent the women the women's organization the youth organization not just the college but the high school youth

the unions in order to make sure that all sectors of society are represented yeah and on this show I mean our hearts go out to Cuba and Venezuela we wish nothing but the best for them and we're going to continue to monitor both those situations because we we deeply care about the legacy of those two countries and the future of them but I do want to move on a little bit I mean I know you are a member of the party for socialism and liberation and you've actually ran for president as the PSL candidate. Can you talk about the PSL, what its goals are, and what makes it different from other left-wing organizations in the U.S.? Yeah, the Party for Socialism and Liberation

was founded in 2004, and it's grown considerably, especially in the last year. I would say about the PSL that I would say we are the most active of the parties, left parties in the U.S. We've grown not only in numbers, but in our reach through the country, including now having a presence through several states in the South. That was not the case a few years previously. And our essential view is we support the revolutionary movements in the world. we are strong defenders of the Cuban Revolution of the Bolivarian revolutionary process of Venezuela we defend the countries that are under attack by US imperialism whether it's Iran the people of Iraq against the destruction of their country

we were strong defenders of the Libyan government and people against the mass nations by U.S. and NATO and the destruction of that country, defending the Syrian government in trying to throw off and defeat the terrorist organizations. And I would say that there are some on the left that are completely confused by this that have, in the past, supported the overthrow of Gaddafi, for example, in Libya, which was an extreme. extremely bankrupt position, who are supporting the so-called opposition in Syria. There are nothing more than terrorist groups that are financed by Saudi Arabia and other allies and the United States, and as an attempt to overthrow any independent, any country independent of U.S. imperial designs in the Middle East. And so I think that's a big problem of the lack of understanding of what anti-imperialism

really means that you can't say well we're against the government but we don't want US invasion well the way that the government was overthrown was by US invasion by US bombing and they're attempting that in Syria oh we're a group that's very involved in the issues whether it's the housing crisis in Washington DC or New York City the issue of the opioid crisis in different cities of fighting police brutality, our comrades called and led, along with other groups, a great protest this past Friday night in Sacramento that made the protest in those two days after Stefan Clark was gone down in his own backyard, a young African-American man with two children

and his girlfriend, leaving that family behind by this brutal racist cop murder, those protests made national and international news. That's the kind of activism that I'm talking about that is so important to be with the people in these struggles and to help guide them and pointing out who are the real

criminals in our country. Involving the pro-immigrant rights calling for full rights for immigrants. So all of these things are expressed in our election campaigns. Which is a part of our work, really only a part of our work, but an essential part. Yeah. Yeah, and I really admire a lot of the work that PSL does. I mean, I think PSL compared to a lot of other organizations

is like extremely dedicated to a materialist approach and an anti-imperialist approach that I find extremely admirable. Talking about Stefan Clark and his recent murder by cops, you know, I just want to highlight the fact that he was in his own backyard holding his cell phone, unarmed, was shot 20 times and then they handcuffed his dead body afterwards kind of reminiscent of how they treated Michael Brown after he was murdered by the police but if you look at how they treat

say Dylan Roof a white supremacist murderer that walked into a black church and shot nine innocent people he was given a bulletproof vest to protect him and they took him out to Burger King because he was hungry so just the way these racist police handle these situations disgusting it's really terrible I mean the issue

of racism is so deep and so, so deep in the police departments. There's no getting around that. And unless people really understand that, then they don't understand, you know, this country. There are over a thousand police murders every year. Sometimes it's gone as high as 1,500. And those are the ones that are documented

because no police department is required to report on the killings that they commit. Yeah, it's horrible. But I do admire PSL taking the lead in a lot of those struggles. But let's move on, because I mentioned that you ran for president as the PSL candidate. What made you decide to run for president of the United States multiple times? And what did you hope to accomplish with those runs? And did you accomplish what you wanted to?

Well, I ran because my party selected me. But we ran because we see the U.S. elections as critical to participate in, and especially the presidential, it has a higher profile. And as much as probably the majority of people are feeling more and more cynical about elections and feel like I don't really want to even vote, only about half the population does vote who is able to vote. still when the elections come around and especially as the approach there is total attention to them there's attention throughout the world who's going to be the next president who is really the executive of the capitalist class who manages the affairs of the capitalist class but we run in them because with all the attention and people being you know formed in this country to think that

the only way to participate in elections or in politics and to shape their lives is to vote. You register to vote. You look at the candidates. You go to the polls and then you put your ballot in the box and that's it. And what we say in the elections are messages that the people are who have created change. Whether it was winning Social Security,

unemployment rights, union rights in the 30s, or fighting the wars, winning the struggle against apartheid segregation in the South, and fighting racism, affirmative action, women's rights, LGBTQ rights, you know, the Supreme Court ruled in favor of gay marriage, it's marriage now, gay marriage, because the people were demanding it throughout the country. So the movements are what make change. And that's something that, strangely, is hidden from the vast majority of people. People don't know our own history. They don't know why they have a union.

They don't know the struggle it took, the people whose lives were sacrificed for it. And that's one aspect of it. The other is to spread the ideas of socialism. It's not enough to talk about reforms. It's that we need to build a movement, to fight for our rights. to fight ultimately for socialism. And that message has become more popular, more listened to, and is attracting more and more youth especially to join socialist parties,

to join the movement. And we saw, for example, a great increase in growth, partly because of our campaign that people saw us. You know, a lot of people, a lot of young people with the development of social media are actually looking on the Internet trying to find, well, okay, are there protests today? There was a police killing. Occupy, how do I find out in my town?

Everyone knows now that you can find those things on the Internet. But there's also a great search for socialism. And so we have to raise our profile in the media, in the streets, especially in the streets, in the ballot box, so that people can find this in joint. We have to build the movement, build organization, because you cannot fight this capitalist class and all of its institutions and the police apparatus, the state apparatus of this country, unless you have the working class organized, the people organize. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think what you talked about with regards to the framing of history and how history is taught to us in schools, the people movements, the mass movements that undergirded so much of the progressive reforms that we eventually got, you know, that's sort of whitewashed away in favor of basically this subtle concept that just voting for politicians is what does it. And so you'll go to our history books and you'll see, oh, these reforms were made at this time. And this is due to this president, right? It's never due to the people that push that

president and push the system in that direction. And I think part of the radicalizing process for a lot of people is realizing just how misinformed and ideologically whitewashed history is taught to us in this country. Oh, yeah. And then, and also to overcome bourgeois propaganda, capitalist myths that are so commonly accepted in the population. you know, I mean, how else can you know unless you get an alternate view? Right, exactly.

I wasn't actually, I was actually in Gabriel's class. He's, you know, high school, he's getting a degree or a certificate for teaching. And so he is a student teacher of high school students. And I started to talk to them. I'm running for governor right now in California. And I was telling them about the issue of homelessness. And I said, you know, the media. And the government likes to say that people are homeless or poor because they're lazy.

And I explained two critical laws in the state of California that prevent vacancy control for tenants, that prevent effective rent control and that allow for wholesale evictions of complete buildings when a landlord decides he's not going to be a landlord anymore for the purpose of converting into condo. eventually and selling a million dollar prices well the youth were listening they weren't saying a lot that day they didn't know me but Gabe said that the next day one of them said you know I learned a lot I used to think that homeless people were were lazy I didn't realize about those laws and a lot of people you see a lot of people falling into this idea that immigrants are ill there's

illegal. You'll even hear, you know, a lot of races people go, they're not. Okay, so maybe they work hard, maybe they contribute, but they're still illegal. Well, did you know there's no legalization process for immigrants? And these kind of things, we have to break through the myth and say, stop paying attention to what the government tells you is the problem. The problem isn't Russia hacking into elections. First of all, that's false. The problem is a billion-dollar election process that keeps you from having any say and powers that be from staying in power. The problem is not, you know, Mexicans having jobs through NAFTA, which is not really the case, but that are, you know, a trillion-dollar military budget that's taking, that's sucking away

every dollar from social programs, and that process is continuing. The problem is war. You can't have jobs at home if you have wars abroad. You mentioned, and I think it's important to highlight this point, but you mentioned you are, in fact, running for governor of California in 2018. Many on the left think that engaging in electoral politics at all is a dead end road and a waste of time. How would you respond to this criticism, and why is it important for radicals to engage in electoral politics and lead the charge on important reforms?

well there are some groups that have as their view that no we don't engage in them we say abstain stay out of it it's a dead end as you say it's a capitalist election yes this is true they have the power but there are i understand why a lot of individuals feel that way it's it's a cynical an understandably cynical view of the elections like nothing changes why do i want to throw away my vote why do I even want to bother I saw a lot of that in this last election but um again we reach out to them about where the change comes from yes the elections aren't going to change things substantially no they're not and we don't see that either we're doing that to intervene in the elections to talk about socialism to expose the crimes of capitalism that you know a lot of things that people aren't aware of, and to urge people to join the movement. That's all. I'd like to bring up an interesting example in another country, that's Mexico.

The Sapadista movement arose in 1994 as an armed rebellion, and they were crushed in many ways by the government, but they continued and continued in Chiapas and other areas. they helped elevate the struggle of the indigenous and the legitimate fight of the indigenous people in Mexico, and actually internationally. But in previous elections, they had something in the last presidential election called La Otra Campania, the other campaign, of saying that the problem is capitalism, yes, that we need revolutionary change, that we need all the people together. to fight capitalism. But they essentially abstained. And interestingly this year,

they saw the coming July 1st election as essential to participate actively in the election. And they ran a woman named Maria, Manichui, was her nickname. And they sent representatives even to New York, Washington State, California, many states to publicize their electoral campaign, they announced that they were going to run Mighty Chui. In the elections, it required 860,000 signatures to get on the ballot in Mexico. Unfortunately, they weren't able to succeed,

but even they saw that the importance of being and reaching out to the people through an official electoral campaign that they had not done before, And I think it's very much the way we see the elections. You're not giving credence to them. You're saying that we have to fight the system, that we need a new system. But you have to be where the people are at. The people still have not given up on elections. The day that the masses of people say, we reject entirely your elections,

and we're going to be in the streets, filling the streets of Washington, shutting down business as usual, shutting down the factories. okay, that's the day that the elections are going to be irrelevant, but they're not still for the masses of people. I literally could not agree more with you. And when people like to talk about diversity of tactics, using the platform provided by bourgeois elections to get the word out about socialism and to bring people into the fold of socialism and to cast a doubt on the bourgeois system itself is an absolutely essential part of that diversity of tactics. So, I mean, I'm 100% on your side on that issue. Now, one of the core issues you support is rational, social, and economic planning.

This is kind of broader than individual elections. This is like an ideological idea, but you support economic planning rather than relying on the chaos and irrationality of the market to produce and distribute goods. Can you talk about what this would look like and why it's essential to a communist approach to the economy broadly? Well, when you just talk about the environment and the climate change, that's putting it mildly the threat to all life on the planet because of capitalism i think more and more people are realizing uh when people say stop the use of fossil fuels stop fracking solar power wind power

all these things have to do with social and economic planning rather than the market that pumps out plastics. I have a real thing about these plastics. They have say now that this giant, it's hard to say what it is, the plastics garbage patch in the Pacific, it's three times the size of Texas, and Texas is huge.

It's destroying the oceans. The economic planning, under socialism would do so much to ration the resources of the earth to make sure that everybody is fed, clothed, housed, and it doesn't mean, it means cutting down on the excess of production, the overproduction. Why do we have to keep pumping out cars and watching television and seeing endless ads about you have to buy a new car, a new luxury car, instead of building mass production, mass transport, I'm sorry.

Mass transport. Economic planning is essential for the life of the planet and for the right of every human being to be able to live. You know, thousands of people die every day from hunger. There's so much that could be done with planning, but it's only possible under socialism. It's not possible under capitalism. building weapons just so that you can use them in war

and this trillion dollar budget of the Pentagon building more and more dangerous weapons that have to be used for them to continue justifying their profit-making war machine using it to crush other countries for the control of their resources and geopolitical control is capitalism. Now, coming down to California

and getting right down to California where I live you find for example the drought the natural drought which was exasperated and is still exasperated by the chaos of agribusiness which relies more and more on cash crops like wine how many of you go to your marketplace the big stores and have aisles multiple aisles of endless brands of wine because wine is now so profitable over food and in the central valley of California where all the underground water the aquavers are being emptied out because of this unfettered production of cash crops like vineyards and things like almonds which is a very very profitable cash crop but then when you when you grow these things without a guaranteed market without the reason for why you're producing them except strictly for for profit then you have to create the market for people to buy your goods and that's why you're seeing this explosion of of like almond products you have to have almonds and almond milk and

did you stop and think why that's happening why you keep seeing ads for cars but that's The overproduction of capitalism is what's created homelessness. The more homes that are produced, the excess of homes that are created just because of the search for profit means that there's more homelessness because eventually the market collapses, these commodities can't be sold, people lose their homes, their value of their homes goes down, and they're still tied to the bank payments, the mortgages, and we saw as a result the crisis. of 2007 and 2008. The crisis of capitalist overproduction. It's built

in. It's inescapable. And it's absolutely going to happen again. It's just a matter of time before that same sort of pattern reemerges as it always has throughout capitalism's history. I really appreciate and I want to highlight just the

total irrationality and wastefulness of the market. You know, often the market is presented to people as the most efficient way of doing things when in reality the opposite is the actual truth. And the only way that we can organize and distribute goods and services on a broad national level is through planning. And so I can't imagine a way that the U.S. will get away from this market approach into a way that's sustainable and rational, if not for planning. I can't imagine any other way around that? Yeah, and in America it's affecting our lives. I mean, the issue, the sad issue of

obesity, for example, 40% of the population is obese. That's a huge increase from years ago and the growing numbers of extreme obesity. Why does that happen? I think it has a lot to do with advertising and the restaurants just all you can eat, eat, eat, and the food that people are made to eat because of the competition between all these in the food industry it's so irrational and it affects our health the the the the promotion of a soft drinks for example all these sodas and everything it may not seem like the biggest thing but it actually is causing a crisis in communities health crisis diabetes yeah and then we have an inadequate health care system that is unable to deal with those people's health issues that

inevitably result from that sort of unhealthy lifestyle. And so everything feeds into one another. Absolutely. And as you say, when you overproduce commodities, you have to create demand for it. And that's why we are advertised to 24-7 online, on billboards, on our way to and from work. Every time you turn on the TV, you have another commercial blaring in your face, trying to sell you more things. It's a response to the alienation created, and it's a response to the overproduction created. Advertising becomes necessary in that context. You did mention arms deals, and I want to point out that the U.S. is the largest arms

dealer on the planet, and so literally it profits off of chaos and bloodshed all over the world, and that feeds into this next question, which is anti-imperialism. And I know you've touched on it throughout this interview, but can you talk about some of the most important anti-imperialist struggles happening today, and what leftists in the U.S. can do to assist those struggles? Anywhere where the U.S. has involved, you know, oppose U.S. intervention, aggression, occupation, sanctions. I would say Palestine is very critical. And I want to promote a very important book that's, I think, essential reading for anyone who wants to be able to understand how the formation of Israel came about.

what is a solution today for the Palestinian people right to self-determination why we say that all Palestinian people have the right to return to their homeland if they choose people who've been expelled including their future generations and those who weren't even born there

it's their homeland I would like to suggest that people get the book Palestine Israel and the U.S. Empire written by Richard Becker. It is really excellent. And I say that because in talking about Palestine in different arenas, a lot of people say, well, how do I, you know,

I don't know what can I read, what can I learn about it. And it's very important. Palestine, Iran to defend the Iranian people against these new developing threats, especially with the naming of John Bolton an extreme right-weiner can't describe enough the danger that he is and that he represents to the people of the world

who has said in the past, in the very recent past, that the only North Korea should be no Korea, meaning war. He wants war with Iran and the abrogation of the joint agreement with Iran that Trump wants to see overthrown. The growing move to the right, this is the most extreme right-wing government that we have seen

and the need to defend peoples abroad from U.S. aggression, but also to fight in the United States against this militarism. There's going to be, by the way, as you probably all know, that Trump announced a military parade, which is only selling future war, current future war, for Veterans Day weekend. I don't know if it's going to be Saturday, Sunday, or Monday in November,

but we and many other organizations are calling for a mass response with, you know, gigantic show of force against U.S. war and all its manifestations to demand money for jobs, money for the people. not for war to oppose the Trump administration in its entirety. Yeah, that military parade, we need to show up in force all over the country and just reject it because it's an absolute call to militarism. It's this Mussolini-esque notion that Trump wants to sit there with his arms folded and watch this display of force to feed his own ego.

It's truly disgusting and it represents a criminal siphoning away of resources to militarism as opposed to the desperately needed social programs like health care in this country. It is a act of disgusting repulsion. I do want to talk about John Bolton because I co-host another podcast called The Guillotine, and I did an entire segment on John Bolton, the new national security advisor for Trump. And as Gloria referenced, he for decades, he was not only one of the architects of the Iraq War, but even back then he was forging satellite photos of Iranian supposed nuclear experiment sites that were completely bogus, but he was actually putting forth fake evidence in an

effort to create the pretext for invasion of Iran. And he's also argued publicly that the U.S. has a quote unquote legal case for a preemptive first strike on the DPRK, North Korea. So this is somebody who is just bloodthirsty, absolutely obsessed with war, dogmatically sort of committed to destruction and death. And this is somebody that we should all be on the a lookout because as we all know, Trump is extremely ignorant about foreign policy. And when you have somebody like John Bolton whispering into his ear every day, it's a recipe for disaster. So be on the lookout for that. I do want to transition into the last part of this interview with New Glory. And I want to get some of your wisdom here. So in your experience, how has the,

the revolutionary left in the U.S. evolved or changed over your lifetime? Is the left bigger and more organized now that it's been over the past several decades, in your opinion? When I was in college in 1972, there were 13 parties in my school campus. There were many, many parties that grew up, that arose from the 1960s, inspired by the Cuban Revolution, the Chinese Revolution, the Soviet Union, the Socialist Camp, the National Liberation movements. There was a huge number of groups, and of course, the mass movements that existed. that that really shrank considerably but I think it's growing and I think it encompasses more struggles it encompasses more of the social movements that are so important and that we're just beginning in those times for example the LGBTQ struggle and movement is an

integral part of, I would say the left, most of all, I would say all the left now. It's been a process. The women's struggle, the struggle against racism and national oppression. All of this has been included, but I think what's so encouraging now

is the youth getting more involved, mobilizing, organizing, organizing, these marches, these last days after the massacre in Florida of the high school in Parkland, I think it's a good sign. There may be some slight contradictions, but the fact that the youth are fighting, it's an important process of mobilization and education. So I think things are very hopeful for us.

As I said, I think beginning with Occupy, the anti-capitalist struggle, has, I think, increased in the interest in socialism. The anti-globalization movement was, I would say, a little bit anarchist in being against capitalism, but also not necessarily accepting the ideas of socialism. I think the ideas of socialism are more popular in these last few years, and will continue to grow, especially the more that the left can project those ideas and for example our party is working non-stop to reach out to more and more cities more towns more groups we have organizers traveling to places where we've been contacted by youth who want to join to help develop

the organization and the ideological understanding of socialism and the challenge of socialism and the challenges that we face. We face some very serious challenges not to get, the Democrat Party plays the role every two and every four years of trying to co-op movements. I think they're trying that with this youth movement on the guns issue. They're trying to bring some of these youth in

to placate them and project their own leadership that can continue the capitalist rule and just making them accept the way things are, the status quo. But I don't think they can control all that. However, I think the challenges for the left not to fall into the idea that this time we must elect and support the Democrats. We have to maintain that independence from the capitalist parties, especially the lies of the Democrats, but of course the Republicans. And I think it's a very hopeful time for us. It's a hopeful time for socialists.

Yeah, and I think with the youth movement, as you were exactly saying, there are some contradictions and some issues inside of that, but these are very young people. And I think it's our job as revolutionaries and as radicals to reach out to them and to try to frame their situation in a explicitly socialist frame, because I think they're going to quickly find out how meaningless some of these movements are,

why we have the Democrats and Republicans in office. They're going to become disillusioned and they're going to look for alternatives and so it's our job to look at a very politicized youth in this country, more politicized than I've seen it for a long time, perhaps more politicized than it's been since the 60s. And it's our job to reach

out to them and try to help them develop along those lines. Last question before I let you go. I know you touched on it a little bit, but where do you see the left in the U.S. going over the next few decades? Are you optimistic about our chances? Yeah, I think I was explaining that I'm very hopeful.

I'm an optimist anyway, and you have to be if you're in the struggle facing what we're seeing this government do to the working class and to the world. But ultimately we will overcome because the capitalists have nothing to offer the people. All they have to offer is more poverty and more enrichment on their end. And I think more and more people is more evident to people. The anger is growing. The question now is organization and mobilization. But I do think that we have to be sealed and prepared for the possibility of war. And when there's war, before there's war, there's war propaganda and demonization of a country and a people to justify war.

We've seen it time and again, Vietnam. Iraq, Libya, Syria, and now with the Russia bashing, which is really a tool not only of the Democrats to try to bring themselves back into office and power, but it's a tool of the whole ruling class to obiscape, real issues. They say there's Russian hacking and Russian surveillance. Sorry, we're surveilled by every element of the police agencies of the United States, which is trying to keep us from rise as a class we have to be prepared for the possibility of war

it could happen against Iran it could happen against North Korea it's very very dangerous and we cannot fall for the idea that if there's war that the people have to support our government our government is an imperialist government it's the enemy of the people at home and abroad and we have to take a stance against

any war and any occupation, but it will need political education and strength, solidarity, and being in the streets. Well, thank you so much, Gloria, for coming on the show. You're an absolute inspiration, a personal hero. Your wisdom and experience are needed now more than ever. Before we let you go, can you please let listeners know where they can find you, your work, and your organization online and where they can find your run for governor of California in 2018? Yeah, I would say primarily you can click on LiberationNews.org says liberation and then

news.org, no dot in between. And also PSLWeb, PSLWeb.org is more information on our party. Liberation News has more of like our coverage on what's going on right now and actions happening. and my gubernatorial race is for Peace and Freedom Party in California where it's on the ballot and I'm a member of Peace and Freedom Party too, all our members are, and that would be Lariva-2018.com and we have another candidate of the Party for Socialism and Liberation here, Natalie Creasy, her name is N-A-T-H-A-L-E-H-R-I-E-R-I. I-Z-A-2018.com, but you can find the information on LiberationNews.org. Thank you so much, Brett. I appreciate the time, and I hope we can keep in touch. Absolutely, yeah, let's please keep in touch, and I'll make sure to link to all of those

websites and the book, Palestine, Israel, and the U.S. Empire. I'll link to all of that in our Twitter post, and we put this episode out. So thanks again, Gloria. Keep up the good work, and let's keep in touch for sure. Thank you. Take care. ever since they landed Who moved out the Natives and left them stranded Who stole Africans from across the Atlantic Who auction branded and labeled a savage

Who wanted to expand in the Mexican landing Pull guns and grabbed it wasn't democratic What would they own if we added the damage Now they say that you're illegal just because you speak Spanish When you landing on Plymouth Rock, did you have your papers When you was dying from sickness cart Did you ask for favors? When all you could grow is stricken crops,

Did you ask your neighbors? Did they teach you how to survive? Make sure you had the basics, but not glad the gracious. What you had was hatred. Wanted they land to take it? Because you plan to rape it. Thankless, what you call a man a racist

who would get women and children smallpox and blankets to make it like someone else is illegal with a nation of 40 million stolen people and won't apologize for what you know is evil. If you mention immigrants, then you vote for equals. But all of a sudden, if you Mexican, you're worse than the others. And it don't matter, they were said when they first were discovered.

Now that's more disrespectful than cursing your mother, the land of the free, unless you a person to color America. Who been illegal ever since they landed. Who moved Dr. Natives and left stranded. Who stole Africans from across the Atlantic? Who auction branded and labeled a savage? Who wanted to expand? In the Mexican landing, pulled guns and grabbed it, it wasn't democratic.

What would they owe if we added the damage? Now they say that you're illegal just because you speak Spanish. Mexican means mestizos, mestizos means mixed blood. Mixed with the Native Americans, this is where they stood. The third root was the African, it was all good. You ain't crossed the border, the borders up in y'allhood. But history is insignificant to ignorance, because in a sense, Barack Obama's daddy was a dad.

immigrant if he could be the president then you should be a resident but rob a bent and jam brew is too prejudiced are costing us with officers making laws to topple us while we at it let's send Schwarzenegger back to austria arnold where's your papers uh i'll be back with them imagine white canadians with policemen harassing them my alias beneath tuarens smooth like desi ardenes fighting for farm workers i'm seasoned sharp fans pour the patrol trying to keep us on edge but now we're standing up black reds and brown, they can never break the family up. Who been illegal ever since they landed.

Who moved out of the natives and left you stranded? Who stole Africans from across the Atlantic? Who auction branded and labeled a savage? Who wanted to expand in the Mexican landing? Pulled guns and grabbed it, it wasn't democratic. What would they own if we added the damage? Now they say that you're illegal just because you speak Spanish. Thanks.