Rev Left Radio - Maoism, Black Nationalism, The US Left, and Our Scorching Future

Episode Date: July 16, 2021

Black Red Guard joins Breht to discuss a wide range of topics from the synthesis of maoism and black nationalism to the state of the US left to our projections for the coming decades. Support STL Rising Care Fund here: https://www.facebook.com/STLRising314/ Check out BRG's new podcast here: https://anymeansnecessary.libsyn.com/ Outro Music: "Punch A N*zi" by The Muslims (check them out here: https://themuslims.com/) ----- Support Rev Left Radio: https://www.patreon.com/RevLeftRadio or make a one time donation: PayPal.me/revleft LEARN MORE ABOUT REV LEFT RADIO: www.revolutionaryleftradio.com

Hello everybody and welcome back to Rev Left Radio. On today's episode, I have Black Redguard on the show to talk about a bunch of different topics. Black Redguard, obviously, most people know him from his YouTube channel. Now he's switching over to doing a podcast, Radio Free New Africa, which I'll link in the show notes. But I've always liked BRG's approach and his criticism. and his sort of pull no punches style obviously for some people especially those that are not Maoist he can rub them the wrong way because he is sort of caustic in a certain in a certain sense but I think you know he is an important voice on the left and has a lot of insight and is a

you know a good representative of of Maoism and of black nationalism revolutionary black nationalism and their synthesis in the first half of this conversation we talk about just that we talk about black nationalism, Maoism versus Leninism. We talk a little bit about the mass line, some confusions around it, how to apply it correctly, and why it is such an essential understanding and application of organizing and why the left needs to continue to take it more and more seriously. And then in the second half of the conversation, we sort of open it up and have a sort of natural back and forth analysis of the current conditions in the United States and in North America, some critiques of the U.S. left as well as some things that the U.S.

left is doing right. We applaud the militancy of the Antifa movement, for example. And then we talk about climate change, how climate change is going to and already is intensifying the contradictions of American society, how the suburban white reactionaries are going to continue to respond to it as things, you know, sort of tighten up all around us. how the far right is going to organize and is already organizing in the light of a lot of the chaos that has been building up over the last several years. So this is just a wide-ranging conversation with somebody that I really value their insights and their voice on the left. And again, you know, pulls no punches.

Rev. Left is always going to have episodes where the guest is going to say something that you might disagree with, but it's important to engage with those views. And if you're going to disagree with, let's say, the position of Maoism, having Maoism articulated robustly by, you know, defenders of it is going to help you understand the ideology more and maybe why you disagree with it, or maybe you'll find that you agree with it more than you thought. So overall, really fun, great conversation.

Black Red Guard has now shifted, as he mentions in the show, from YouTube to podcast formats for various reasons that we discuss and his new podcast is called Radio Free New Africa already has a couple episodes out. I'll link to that in the show notes as well. So without further ado, here's the conversation I had with Black Red Guard on Maoism, Black nationalism, and the state of the U.S. left today. Enjoy. So hello everyone. I am Black Red Guard. Most of you will probably know me from my YouTube channel, which I am slowly kind of phasing out in favor of a podcast, relatively similar to this one. It's called Radio Free New Africa. And essentially, it's just me discussing news issues

and theory and stuff of relevance to the New African National Liberation struggle. So keep an eye on that. How did I become politically active? And where did the U.S. YouTube channel and all of that stuff come from. Well, I like a lot of black people in St. Louis became politically active, meaning involved in organizing as a result of Mike Brown being shot in the subsequent upheaval. And this was in 2014, of course, and I began organizing as a result. My first organization actually was the Socialist Party, which I ended up leaving, because there were too many too many old white people basically

and their politics were left quite a bit to be desired as old white people tend to do one thing that I remember they ran a fellow named David McReynolds as a presidential candidate years ago and this guy he was all over the list serve and all over the Facebook discussion groups

and in one instance that I'll never forget he called uh he said that mike brown was engaged in buggish behavior or something of the sort and i was like okay i cannot continue to affiliate myself with uh with these people because i'm going to end up having an aneurism and i'm not giving one of them aneurism which is what i would prefer but i was like okay this i can't i can't do this is simply not going to happen so um so i began studying and reading a lot more my politics was It was more like general left. Okay, capitalism needs to end, blah, blah, blah, blah.

But then I was like, okay, how is this going to happen? Like, okay, it's fine to be left, but what type of left? Like, there's so many different left tendencies out there. And frankly, most of them ain't worth a damn. It's just a bunch of white academics sitting on the internet circle jerking each other. It's like that's not what I want to be a part of. So I became a Maoist because, I was like, okay,

we don't have time for this bullshit. And I realized that it encompassed critiques of the project that took place in the USSR without engaging in Trotsky's style Stalin did everything wrong nonsense while also not engaging in

ML revisionist Stalin did everything right discourse. It was more dialectical and nuanced than its analysis. Plus, the appeal of an ideology developed in major part by people in the global periphery, by people in Peru, by people in the Philippines, by people in a press nationalities in the United States, by people in China, of course, and by people in Turkey and India, it had an unquestionable appeal to a new African person. So that's how I ended up

becoming a Maoist. The YouTube channel was started to educate people on Marxism, when it is Maoism and spread the ideology and practice of it. So that's where that came from. Yeah, I really like the idea that you laid down that, you know, we have, you were sort of in this general anti-capitalist framework within the question arose, how, as you put it, how is this going to happen? How can we actually put this into, you know, effect in the world to transform it as opposed to just having an endless array of critiques to lob at the status quo, at the system as it is. And that is exactly what brought me over first initially to Leninism and then to Maoism myself. out of, you know, democratic socialism and anarchism was this, okay, now that I have my understanding down and my critique sharpened, I'm really actually interested in how this can actually be put into effect and to change the real world. And, you know, who around the world over the last century or two has actually done that and who and what were they, ideologically, what were they following? And that led me to Leninism and Maoism myself. So I completely sort of relate to that.

I do have to a question, just sort of as a curiosity and as a side note, you said that you're sort of phasing out your YouTube channel and moving toward a podcast, Radio Free New Africa, a nice name, by the way. What's the impetus for that? Like, do you have a reason for turning away from YouTube and towards the podcasting platform? Well, I decided that having a YouTube channel with my face, of course, most everybody knows what I look like. But it promoted a kind of individualism that I didn't like. like, okay, people associate me with Maoism in the U.S., whereas that's not a good thing. That's, for one, that's a lot of weight on my shoulders, and for two, that's just unfair to the dozens and hundreds of Maoist revolutionaries who have been working in streets for years and don't get that type of recognition. I just basically just got tired of being in the face of black powers, and that's individualism.

And while I believe that all movements need a symbol, that's not, it's not promote, that's, that wasn't a very positive development. Like I kept seeing people, that's part of why I turned comments off in the videos. I kept seeing people say that, oh, this guy should lead the revolution. I'm like, bro. I barely graduated university. How the fuck? Of course, your success in bourgeois academia doesn't necessarily translate into your revolutionary potential. But still, I just didn't like that. It was ridiculous. The thing with Americans is that whether it be Bernie Sanders or me or Eugene Debs or somebody,

they are very, very celebrity obsessed people. And I recognized that tendency early on, and I didn't want to encourage it, promote it. That was the main reason why I took it down. And then second of all, security concerns. But again, that's kind of water under the bridge. Everybody already knows what I look like. So that's got a high, but I just didn't want to feed into that further plus people tend to learn for me. And I didn't want people thinking that it's okay to be going around talking about topple the government of your own country with your face visit.

Yeah. All those make complete sense to me. And there's also, I think, a little, the platform itself is a little easier to access perhaps. Like let's say you're at work and you have to keep your hands busy and you can't look at a YouTube screen. to be able to pop in some earbuds and listen to somebody, you know, long form discuss an important topic or have a long conversation. I always found, like, podcasting was better for that as well. I got into podcasting because that shitty jobs, I wanted to keep my mind busy, but, you know, my hands and my eyes had to be working on other things, and so podcasts were helpful in that

regard. I guess you could in YouTube, you know, put it in your pocket and just sort of listen to it, but that's another reason. But I think the reasons that you stated are obviously the primary ones. they make total sense to me. So I'm excited to hear the new show. But let's go ahead and move forward. And I know politically, as we've mentioned, and most people know, you do identify as a Maoist and a revolutionary black nationalist. Before we talk about Maoism and how you can synthesize the two, maybe it's important to just start with talking about what black nationalism

is and just sort of laying that on the table before we move on. Sure. I'm not just any black nationalist, though. Like there's a variety of tendencies in trends that can be identified as black nationalism, revolutionary black nationalists with a socialist perspective. So black nationalism is essentially the belief that the affairs and future of black people should be determined by the African diaspora and the African diaspora alone. I want to talk about the African diaspora. I'm not just talking about Africans on the continent. I'm talking about Africans in Europe, Africans in the Caribbean, Africans in North and South America, wherever Africans may be found. They're a member of the African diaspora. And thus, the

African continent is their home. And when we look at how Africa currently is, Africans are at the mercy of foreigners, whether they be European, whether they be American, whether they be Chinese or Japanese, at home and abroad. When we look at the United States, when we look at the black people here, there's roughly 33 million of us, I believe, last count. We do not have control over our own affairs. We don't have control over where we live. We don't have control over how much money we make, we still make less than the settlers that white people do. We are subject to police and settlers, vigilantes that can kill us and get away with it whenever they're so pleased, although they do throw us a bone with their children. But we do not have control over

all the affairs. So the main gist of black nationalism is that we want to run our own shit. We want to determine our destiny as a people. And we look at our governments on the continent being composed mainly of sellouts and neo-colonial flunkies. We look at cities that have a majority of a black population, New Orleans, Detroit, which I believe as a white mayor, I don't know how to hell that happened, Newark, St. Louis, all of these places, Philly. These places, they're run by neo-colonial.

administrations okay they are these people are corrupt they don't represent our interests they sell us out they take money from all types of horrible corporations and horrible individuals to to fuck us over so at home and abroad uh we're we're under the thumb of neocolonialism look at Haiti where the president uh was just assassinated in the middle of the night um i read the reuters article. Apparently, of course, you can't trust everything that U.S. Bushwamedia says, but apparently these individuals that murdered him and tried to murder his wife, I believe she's in the hospital.

They claim to be DSA agents. DSA agents. DEA agents. I'm pretty sure there's a overlap between DSA and the DEA. these people, they claim to be a drug enforcement administration agents and this is the same way they caught Manuel Noriega, by the way.

They send DEA agents in, along with the U.S. military, to grab this guy because he was trafficking drugs, although that was the surface reason. The main reason was that he no longer represented the interests of Yankee imperialism. Anyways, they just went it to this guy's house, and they just mold him down with machine guns.

So, we see, chaos all over the African diaspora and this is because there's no real new African or African revolutionary tendency in African Revolutionary Party with Marxism, Maoism as its base

to lock this shit down basically. So revolutionary black nationalism is by necessity pan-African or all-African and the goal of revolutionary black nationalists and pan-Africanists is a territorially united Africa

with full control of all aspects of our lives and economy and organized under a socialist mode of production struggling for communism. So, yeah, in a second, we're going to talk about how you synthesize that with Maoism, but maybe it's just helpful to talk a little bit about malism, although I'm sure plenty of longtime Rev. Lev listeners have a fairly good grasp on it. But, you know, something that I think still causes some confusion is the differences between Marxism-Leninism and Marxism-Leninism, Maoism. So could you touch on that briefly before we move on?

Sure. I like to make this comparison. Marxism, Leninism in the year 2021 is essentially a donkey cart. Marxism, Leninism, Maoism is Tesla. Marxism and Leninism is the natural development of Marxism, rooted in the Chinese experience of socialist construction and their people's war, along with the ongoing people's wars that are taking place across the world today. It includes a firm critique of revisionism, which, as we know, revisionism has rotted both the USSR, which it eventually destroyed and China.

And it lays out a firm military strategy for the conquest of power, which is primary for Maoists. Whenever you talk about Maoism, you are of necessity, talking about the necessity of seizing power. Because as our friends in Peru said, Salveo Poder, there's illusion. Without power, everything is illusion. So the revolution's successful, ongoing, and failed in places such as Peru, Nepal, Turkey, the Philippines, And of course, China have shown in practice the correctness and universality of Marxism, Leninism, Maoism, Maoism, and have offered us lessons by mistakes and errors. Theoreticians such as Ajif, Parvati, Gadzalo, Sison, Kebekayan, and of course, Mazadol himself, have left us theoretical tools such as the concept of the universality of protracted people's war, the analysis of bureaucratic capitalism, the universality of contradiction and cultural revolution, new democracy for the third world, world and countless other lessons, both large and small, that when taken together, demonstrate

that MLM is the continuation of the project of Marxism-Leninism. Marxism can be described as the Marxism of the majority of the 20th century up until the May 1960s when anti-revisionist Marxism-Leninism, Mao Zedong thought began to be developed to take the place of Marxism and Leninism in the heat of the great debate between the social imperialist USSR and the People's Republic of China. So Marxism develops through struggle, and a lot of people, they want this struggleless, errorless Marxism that it's just like, okay, you can't have both this and you can have both that. Like, no, you cannot. You cannot have coexistence between a revisionist trend and a anti-revisionist trend.

Something always has to give. When we talk about contradictions, the antagonistic contradictions, And one to the other aspect that that contradiction has to be destroyed and superseded by the other aspect. So when we talk about Maoism, we are talking about the best of the Marxist-Leninist experience being carried over into the 21st century through struggle. So what is the primary difference? Marxism-Leninism? it worked before the triumph of the revolution in China and the

launching of people's wars throughout the global periphery. So now we have to start looking at Maoism as the way to go because that is what is driving the act of revolutionary process. When you look at so-called Marxist-Leninist parties, such as the CPI Marxist and all of these other airless, weak, insipid parties across Europe. And even in the U.S., you've got PSL, you've got the CP, USA, even, I believe, still refers to itself as Marxist Leninist. And then you compare this to the Maoist formations you see, which is actually popping shit off or is preparing to pop shit off.

you can come to your own conclusion about which is actually driving the revolution in the year 2021. I see. So, you know, we've had JMP on many times, and he wrote the book, continuity and rupture, which really, you know, goes into a lot of this. And as you've sort of highlighted there, the ruptural aspect of Maoism from Leninism. Before we move on, I was wondering if maybe you could touch a little bit on the continuity aspect. What aspects does MLM share with Marxism, Leninism, or at least maybe a better way to phrase it is carry over from Marxism, Leninism, that is still universal and valid.

The main thing is before a lot of these ML parties decided to go fully a revisionist following in the footsteps of Krischchhov and Brezhnav and all these other offs, it was a revolutionary theory. There was no real question of it, of

Marxist Party selling itself to Parliament. That only happened after revisionism had fully rotted many of these parties, started with the Communist Party of the Soviet Union. And when you look at, when you read Lenin and Stalin's works, you come to the realization that everything that they talked about had to center around the primacy of armed struggle. Of course, they didn't embrace the universality of protracted peoples war because protracted people's war as a theory had been developed yet. But when you look at the best period of the CPUSA, for example, you see militancy.

Of course, there were still problems. For example, they absolutely shut the bed on the New African neighbor liberation struggle. But when you look at the 30s, you see them out. actually helping to move people's furniture back into their houses after they've been evicted. You see all of these things that were going on. And that is what inspired a lot of people, black people, working class people in particular, to join these formations to join the Communist Party and all these other Marxist-Leninist groups. They're militancy. They're actually addressing the issues that the masses of toiling workers.

we're going through. So in terms of continuity, the militancy, is definitely the biggest thing. So, and I guess, of course, the obvious other continuity would be the Vanguard Party as the party form overall, correct? Yes. Yeah. All right, well, let's go ahead and move on, and this is where I want to get into the synthesizing part a little bit.

You know, what would have been some of the tensions or contradictions between black nationalism broadly conceived in Marxism. And then a secondary question is, as what I suggested, how do you synthesize black nationalism and Marxism, Lennonism, Maoism? Sure. The main tension in the American context has been a, frankly, a stark and disgusting class reductionism on the part of white Marxists. They ignore the primacy of the settler colonial contradiction in a settler colonial country.

And as a result, they failed to heed Lenin's advice on a national question. Now, going back to history for a little bit, linen literally had to, well, it wasn't just linen, it was the old common term, literally had the force communist parties in settler colonial countries like South Africa and like the United States to pay attention to, not just pay attention to, but to put at the forefront the national liberation of all the countries that they had explored. For example, a South African Communist Party, they supported segregated strikes led by settler workers in the minds. So they had to be called on the carpet by the common turn. Otherwise, I would have just been bullshit, meaningless cliques of settlers calling themselves communists. So the fruit of this reductionism has been an insipid and weak, so-called left, that would be nothing. Like, the left in this country would be nothing without the energy provided by national liberation movements with the socialist perspective, such as the Black Panther Party and the revolutionary wing of the so-called BLM movement. If any Black Lives Matter protest,

you'll see all these white groups, these white communist groups, PSL, DSA, etc. hanging around the margins. As a matter of fact, I saw a fight back, which is the Canadian wing of the IMT, the international Marxist tendency. They had set up a fucking literature table at a memorial ceremony for victims

of the residential schools there. It's like they hate the idea of national liberation and land back, yet whenever you go to to want to be his functions in one of these demonstrations. Here they are.

Are they there in solidarity? Of course, not that they're to sell literature and they're trying to pull energy towards their own little bullshit formations. So the white Marxist left fears black nationalism, yet it loves the energy and militancy of our nationalism and cynically engages with it for its own opportunistic ends. On the flip side, however,

we see many black nationalists rejecting class struggle and embracing rightist capitalist ideology, supporting by black and praising black faces being recuperated into the apparatus of white supremacist capitalism and imperialism and neo-colonialism. Richard Nixon actually embraced this, like his idea of black power, and he grabbed some of the more backwards among us,

are businessmen, people like the guy that founded Ebony, John Johnson. And he was like, okay, black power is basically black people get rich. So the issue with that is that it could be interpreted any type of way. So both sides need much more political education and development, along with firmer roots among the people. Otherwise, they will continue to commit these ideological and political mistakes that we simply can't afford to keep repeating.

You also ask, how do we synthesize black nationalism and Marxism and socialism, with both at their best are revolutionary tendencies. For example, the natural conclusion of black nationalism and Pan-Africanism is the destruction of the United States. That's the logical conclusion of Marxism, Linnitus, and Maoism, which teaches us that set of colonial countries can't be reasoned with. You can't reform these places. You can't reform places that are rooted in the exploitation and oppression of black and, of black and indigenous people. So they have to be destroyed. So our synthesis, we have means that we have to include the recognition and active study of a theoretician such as Du Bois, Asada, Malcolm XUEP

Newton, Sanyika Shakur, Jayaki sales, and countless others of the New African Revolutionary Tradition. And we also uphold, you know that Marxist's limited as Maoists have the five heads. I don't really like none of these people were black. So I don't feel need to to like uphold people that don't look like me. So, and that's how a lot of black people feel. As a matter of fact, I believe Eldridge Cleaver, who I despise, wrote on the ideology of the Black Panther Party that black people simply are not going to call themselves after anything that relates to white people.

Like, we've been too fucked over like that. And that's too much of a fucked up power dynamic, if you know what I mean. So there's a New African five heads. Why can't we accept Asada, Du Bois, Malcolm X, Hewry P. Newton, and Harriet Tubman, and others of our revolutionary tradition that were both Marxists and non-Marxists as our own five heads. Like symbolism is important. And to uphold five non-black men and emphasis on men, there's not a woman among them. over and above our own revolutionary traditions,

people that we can go down to the barbershop and see hanging on the wall that comes off as like ludicrous to me and extremely chauvinistic. So that's how you synthesize black nationalism and Marxism

and Marxism and Marxism and Marxism and communism and that's how you address those tensions and contradictions between by and large Eurocentric Marxism and black nationalism. You're not going to go into a

black community telling them that they should worship and hang on to every word and every footnote of a bunch of white people who live 200 years. Simply not to work. Yeah. Yeah, incredibly well said. So sort of bouncing off of that and staying within the realm of Maoism, clearly an important aspect of Maoism and its application is the mass line. And we talk about the mass line on this show quite a bit. But I was wondering sort of how you personally would define or articulate it. And importantly, how best to apply it in the real world as a part of that. Are there any sort of misunderstandings that you see even among Maoists when it comes to the application of the Massland? Sure.

I mean, among Maoists, we see a lot. I'm pretty sure you know that there's like two main Maoist tendencies in the United States. You've got what most people seem to be content to call it a Gonzalo White. So although I'm moving away from calling them that. I call them tribunists because that's their. the main publication tribute of the people. And you've also got my tendency, the tendency that I'm a part of, the FTP Maoists.

You're familiar with that, right? Absolutely, yeah. Just as a side note for people, like the former Gonzaloites, quote unquote, that's more like Red Guards, Austin, et cetera. And the FTP Maoists are more, you know, organizing in the sense of implementing the mass line, et cetera. That's sort of just for people that sort of have a surface understanding

that is how those two, things break down, right? Right. So there's an individual, his name is Kenny Lake. Cites. I'm pretty sure you're familiar with his work, aren't you? Yeah, I think so, yeah. Yeah, he writes for kites. And he comes off as a bit arrogant to me, but his critiques are, his cheeks are pretty good. He's actually criticized both wings of the U.S. Maoist movement. He's criticized the Tribune wing for being a bit more than a bit commandist. And he's criticized the FTP wing for being, I guess, a bit rightest, if you can call it.

But, like, those are two sort of distortions of the mass line. On the FTP movement, we've actually been in the process of actually correcting that. I don't know what the hell the tribunists are doing because they don't talk to us. But so when you have commandism, that's essentially you hopping ahead of what the masses are.

ready for. For example, spray painting, I don't know, long-lived Presidente de Bonfuck, Presidente Gonzalez on the wall in a working-class neighborhood. That's commandantism, because nobody knows who President de Gonzalo is. It's self-aggrandizing propaganda. Whereas tailism, that's just like, whatever the masses are ready for, you do it. Lennon called this Kvostism, leading behind. Tailism would be, if the masses are throwing bricks through the windows, of, I don't know, a local convenience store that called the cops on a black kid and got

him shot in the head, you would be standing up saying, this is adventurous. This is not, how is it adventurous if dozens of people are participating in this activity? So that would be tailism. And rightism would be you essentially engaging in behaviors that are not conductive towards preparing the consciousness of the masses for revolution. For example, a lot of FTP groups engage in mutual aid sort type of activity. And we've had to struggle and explain dozens of times that mutual aid in and of itself is not revolutionary. And you can't just put out, I don't know, you can't just put out some mouse of doing quotes and then be like, okay, we put a mouse thing in the bag.

Please look, people throw that shit in the trash. you have to actually intentionally link up your mutual aid with revolutionary efforts. For example, what we started doing in St. Louis is using our mutual aid as a way to get inroads into tenant organizing activity. The tenant organizing activity is primary because that is what is building a class struggle organization, handing out food to people that's not building class struggle. And we came to realize this when some of our contacts, They only call us when they were, they only one actually hit me up asking for $20 so she can go get some Popeye's chicken. It's like, okay, if that's the relationship that people have to, I mean, that's good, that people feel good calling you about that.

But at the same time, like, you have to emphasize and get across the importance of organizing. Because when you organize, you can take over the whole damn Popeye's chicken. So that's just one example. But going back to the mass line, the mass line is essentially the way in which Maoists lead and organize. It has three steps, okay? You gather information from the masses. You analyze this information through the lens of MLM theory. And for our experience, and then you return this, you return the advance, because when you're out, you're going to hear a lot of stupid ideas.

You're going to hear, like, for example, I had one guy when asked how he thought would be the best situation for gun violence in the community. that he suggested public flogging. We can't set up a, we can't set up the stocks on the corner. Right. And start whooping people's ass because that's going to be weird. Yeah. So you're going to hear a lot of dumb stuff because there's advanced, this intermediate, and it's backwards.

What a lot of people do is, what a lot of writers do is they take the opinions of the backwards, and they run with that. That's what leads in the tailism. Or a lot of people, they take the ideas of the advanced and instead of spreading this through the community, they just go around and they just

yell these things at people. And of course people are going to reject them because the majority of people are, what, in the middle, intermediate. So the goal of the mass line is to bring the intermediate up to the level of the advanced. And as for the backwards, you can bring them up as well or you can isolate them. It depends on how easy

they are to convince. So the mass line, and I would venture to say in the United States is the most important aspect of any of this. People are talking about gun training and all this. Okay, this is America. Let's be real. If Maoists decide to go and start shooting people nowadays, we would not end up very well. It's only like what, I believe there's less than a thousand of us in the country. In this country, it's 30 million people, most of which are not very keen on letting Maoists take over their country. That's just reality. So the mass line is the most important because that's how you build.

Maoists from among the masses. And the most important step of any of this is what we would call Sika or social investigation and class analysis. Sika is important because without thorough analysis of a place, a corporation, an apartment complex, or other place that we seek to organize, will undoubtedly fall into errors of commandism, which are stepping ahead of the masses, preparation, or tailism, falling behind the consciousness and readiness of the masses. And if you carry these errors through, both of them will lead to loss of faith in the revolution and harm the people's interest. You'll eventually have people walking around saying,

okay, these motherfuckers are crazy. We need to go follow them. All they go about is getting people beat up and arrested. And, of course, while getting beat up and arrested is part and parcel of being a revolutionary, of course, you don't want to expose the masses to that unnecessarily. For example, in 1980, there was an incident in Pico Gardens projects in Los Angeles. Heavy Radicals talks about it, which I'm pretty sure you've read. Yeah.

Yeah, RCP cadres. They were trying to organize people for a Mayday. in these projects. And one of their cadres, Damien Garcia, ended up getting stabbed to death. Why? Because they hadn't established a mass space. They were literally just walking to the

projects with red flags and be like, hey, come here, motherfuckers. Let's learn about the revolution. You know how our revcoms talk. Come here, motherfuckers. Let's learn about the revolution. And it was throwing trash at them. They were spraying up with garden

holes. That's a sign that people aren't giving a fuck about what you're saying. They want you out of there. And then it also provoked the police every time they came, the LAPD came. And, of course, you had drug activity, shit going on. They were bringing heat onto these, onto Lumpin people in the area who were trying to survive. So they ended up getting standard to death. People didn't want them around there. So that's a key example of what happens when you don't correctly apply the mass line,

when you pursue commandism. And what you said is true, we see so many people moving to the left, yet the primary thing is to actually organize these people, moving to the left and shit if you aren't actually throwing down for what you believe in. One person whining about that boss on the internet and sharing a ridiculous meme is not going to bring down capitalism and imperialism. Only an armed force guided by a communist party can do that. As for a coherent communist party with a mass base of support,

that is the work of a decade or more. You can't just declare a party. I mean, lots of people have tried it. Definitely the groundwork, Just like you build a house. You can't just buy a plot of land and rope it off and be like, here's a house. No. You have to lay the foundation.

You have to build that shit. Otherwise, it's going to collapse. So this requires dozens, hundreds and thousands of contours of every area, both urban and rural. And these people have to become an integral part of the lives of the people. A united front can only be established under the leadership of such a party only after it has been recognized by the people as Vanguard. Comrade Rashid tells us that the vanguard is owned the vanguard if it is recognized as such by the people. It will be recognized as such by the people if it serves the people's interests in both word and deep. People need to be able to know where they can find their local communists,

and that communists are ready to throw down and help them. Otherwise, they're just going to take communism as just some more white man's bullshit. That's how I've heard of describe. Oh, I'd be a communist, but it's just white people's bullshit. They only show up when somebody get killed. You can't just show up in people's neighborhoods with somebody gets killed with red flags waving around

You have to be there all the time You have to be there handing out papers You have to be there explaining things to people You have to be there networking with elders You have to be there helping neighbors with their gardens shit like that That's how communists get into the hearts and minds of the people Yeah incredibly well said

And incredibly and essentially important Because whether it's tailism, commandism Subculturalism, eclecticism You know Spending way too much time on online, hypersectarianism, completely divorced from any sort of organizing efforts whatsoever. We see a graveyard of failures on the left today and historically in the U.S. And these things that you just laid down are the ways to correct that.

And the only way is to possibly move forward. If we keep creating these failures and keep repeating them, time is running out. And we're going to get to climate change in a second. And that puts a very unique set of pressures and time pressure on what we're doing here. And so those things that you mentioned and the Mass Line specifically are doing it right. Applying it correctly are incredibly important. Now, you've laid out some criticisms and you're not one to pull any punches when it comes to doing so, which is something I do appreciate about you.

I was hoping you could talk a little bit more about some of your primary criticisms of the U.S. left as it currently stands. I know you've laid down quite a few already, but if you have any others to cover before we move forward. My main criticisms of the U.S. left is laziness, whiteness, amateurishness, and ultra-sectarianism. And, of course, extreme onlineness. You have these people, they don't do anything, but sit on the Internet and get into other people's business.

What is the fruit? What is the result? You have fascists literally going around putting our comrades' bodies on their little gun notches. Meantime, we're sitting on the internet saying that martyrs are immortal and rest in power. Okay, if you're at war as we are and the enemy is putting your comrades as notches on a belt, you're losing that war. And yet the left seems to be so adamant and deluding itself that it doesn't realize this. It just thinks that automatically one day everybody's going to get together.

Go take city. That's not going to happen. That's not going to happen. What's going to happen is you're going to wait. You're going to wait and you're going to complain about the boss on the Internet and you're going to rip each other's throats out until before you know it, somebody's kicking your door to drag you off to a concentration cap. That's what's going to happen.

So many leftists seem to content to view revolution is something that can be made behind the computer screen and they substitute callouts, whining, and complaining for real action in the real world. Like, talking to your neighbors, that is far more constructive than sitting on a computer screen arguing about Trotsky or Stalin for the millionth time. And I'm not opposed to arguments. Arguments are fine. But arguments are actually supposed to change people's mind. Let's be real. A Stalinist, if you are stupid enough to car yourself, that is never going to change the Trots mind.

And the Trot is never going to change a Stalin's mind. You have these two different groups of weirdos that are engaged in online positional warfare against each other. Meanwhile, like you said, climate change is coming. We often are dying, and this is what the revolutionaries are doing. So there's also a lot of discourse over nonsensical cultural issues and celebrities, and not enough about actually seizing and wielding power. The settler left is, again, weak and fractured, much as Asada Secure found many years ago, shows no signs of changing anytime soon, making it of little to no help to us black and

indigenous comrades in the belly of the beast. Amateurish and self-advocatizing propaganda as a place to mass line being applied in earnest. So yeah, laziness, whiteness, amateurishness, and hypersectarianism. And a lot of stuff that these people are arguing over, it doesn't, it doesn't even matter. Like, it's different if you're in the middle of a revolution and you're arguing over shit that can actually get people killed. But, the shit that's getting us killed nowadays is arguing over stuff that doesn't matter while you're arguing

your enemy is training and they're very serious about killing you and that's what a lot of leftists fail to realize like this ain't this isn't just online argumentation this shit is going to have ramifications for us in real life if we don't get serious about what we are supposed to be doing

and that's building a revolutionary party and that is preparing ourselves for what's coming. Because time is merciless. It doesn't care about you need more time to prepare, you need more time to organize the people. You already see what's going on out west. This hottest summer on record, 107 people, I believe, last count, dead in Portland from Heat Wave.

Never mind, fire season is coming. You're going to have huge wildfires going on. And the left ain't prepared to do shit about it. So that's the stuff that matters. And how do we fix that? I don't know. I'm not a prophet. I don't have a crystal ball sitting here that I can gaze into.

But I believe that as this stuff impacts more of these people in real life, I think that we'll start seeing some shit getting accomplished. Because as people become more and more desperate, and they have less and less to lose. Like the main inhibitor, I see to left disorganizing the United States, now is that everybody is so uh everybody's chained to these jobs everybody has to work like can we go and work out in the park or and say no i'm going to work i'm going to work i'm going to pick up extra hours i've got to do this that that like as that becomes more untenable uh i think you'll start

seeing a lot more um a lot more good shit coming out yeah absolutely now on the flip side of that um you know what elements of the of the north american left if any uh do you find particularly promising. I'm really curious as to your optimistic side here. I see it becoming more black and brown, for one. Like, let's be real, white people in this country, they've had communism out of their belt for 100 or so years, and they haven't done

anything with it. So, I see a growing number of black, brown, and indigenous people that are becoming communists, that have becoming leftists, and I see a growing militancy. And more, interest in Marxism, Londonism and Maoism. I see more communists training their bodies and minds of getting off the Internet to go among the people. This is a good thing, even if mistakes are made. The left needs to become more reflective of the demographics of the people that are

actually the most depressed in this country. The main reason that the left hasn't done anything is because it's by and large representative of settlers. That's like what was going on to South Africa. How can you have a country that literally enslaves black people? and the majority of the Communist Party is white people. That's a contradiction there. So that's what I find promising. I find every time I look at these protests and these meetings and things like that and these street struggles, for example, there was a racist in New Jersey.

He literally, you were standing it on the corner of talking like he was in 1952. Take your monkey ass on it. Yeah, and the day after it, like, you know, this dumbass literally announced his address. I guess he thought that the were weak or something like that. The day after he was being escorted out of his house by the police and there was around

70 to 100 people surrounding his house throwing rocks, bottles, trash, spit on it. Have you seen that video? Hell yeah. Yeah, I loved it. Yeah, so that's the militancy that I like seeing. Imagine if communists have organized that. So there's always

going to be that fire there. It's just a matter of communist harnessing it and applying it towards towards lasting social change. Yeah. But before we move on to climate change, talking a little bit more about that, I'm actually just sort of curious off script as to your feelings of

Antifa more broadly. You know, there's people that support it, people that criticize it on the left, etc. But there is this militancy, and even just this week in Philadelphia, it wasn't necessarily Antifa, but there was the Patriot front, fascist Nazis, marching through Philly,

just chased off by regular people, backed into a corner, And I lit up by a couple of dudes who were just ready to fist fight them and literally saying these are Nazis, we're going to go out and stop Nazis, which is, you know, Antifa adjacent, if not organized Antifa, you know, proper. But I'm just wondering if you have any critiques or any, like, support of the Antifa movement that we've seen build up over the last several years. Why would I critique people that are going out, beating up people that want me dead? Right. like all bullshit aside like that those antifa and um these people are soldiers we need soldiers we don't need uh people standing up writing polemics and criticizing them we need people that are

willing to go out say fuck it and throw that's what the left needs the right has plenty of those people and the left has an over a over representation of people that they see they watch these stuff this stuff happened on Twitter instead of getting off their asses going out they're helping to throw down and they wait till people get their asses be to get arrested then they're told you so let come on man yeah like all power to antif yeah could not agree more and the main thing is i believe i've written an article about uh about new african anti-fascism like we have to come to the realization that this country is already fascist to start moving accordingly and um anti-fascism is for

it's mainly for white people because black people we already know what time it is let the clan march through march through one of our neighborhoods see what happens the Nazis march to one of our neighborhoods see what happens no it's anti-fascism like if you look at where they organize at and where these battles are happening

it's in these changing gentrifying neighborhoods that in many cases are right up against each other it's a white thing mainly but i support it yeah purge the filth from within your own yeah yeah i'd really do also like i always notice that you know where these anti antifas right which is sort of funny they call themselves that where these fascists tend to march um are not in these marginalized communities um where they would get real an immediate visceral pushback um they they tend to want to go out in certain areas where you know maybe largely white areas like portland as become a sort of playing field for a lot of these clashes, which again, no critique because

anybody out there throwing down against fascists has my support, as you said. But it is very interesting that we want a white America, you know, a white nation, we're white nationalists, but they won't dare walk into a black community and start talking that shit because they know what time it is and they know that they don't have, they don't have the chops to do that. And so I think that is incredibly revealing in its own right. That's what white people need to build Black people. I'm not going to go into a white community saying this is what

you need to do in your community. That's something for white people to build. You can turn your white community into something like that. Your working class area, I mean, white leftists keep saying that the white working class has revolutionary potential. Drove it. Organize your community into an anti-fascist

bastion. Bastian. Whenever Nazis have come around, beat the fuck out of them. Y'all in Mike, Matt Haimbach, Jesus, y'all and y'all names, Matt Heimbach, roam around and do whatever he wants. It's like, come on. You're going to have exactly what we have, a firm, anti-fascist community if, as you say, your white working class has revolutionary potential.

You'll prove it. You say it. Prove it. Yeah. Absolutely. All right, well, let's go ahead and move on to climate change. And as I've talked about, you know, obviously puts a very unique set of pressures on our movements and their trajectories.

It really raises the stake. in unprecedented ways. Yet even with all the hard science and the ecological disasters piling up by the day, it seems, there seems to be very little effective action being taken, really anywhere. So how do you see things playing out on this front in the coming decades? And I'm thinking about one of your somewhat recent videos. Do you see the United States sort of collapsing as a likely outcome of that chaos? And if there is a collapse of the U.S. that is inevitable at some level, how do you exactly

see that process playing out. I know you don't have a crystal ball, but just sort of your thoughts on that, given where we are right now. Climate change is definitely an existential threat. And unlike a person, you cannot give climate change a struggle session. You cannot wage retracted people's war against the sun. So we all know it's coming. It's already here, as a matter of fact. There's a country in the Indian Ocean. It's called the Maldives. it's a series of low-lying islands that is slowly being swallowed by the sea like by the end of the century

there's not going to be any more Maldives and so imagine entire cultures being displaced in the third world these people are going to have to go to the mainland they're going to have to live in India or Bangladesh well Bangladesh is pretty much written off because it's low-lying as well so it's hitting the third world first

like you literally have people in India that are beating each other to death over water and shit, 20, 30 years. That's going to be the U.S. Like, I read an article in the Rolling Stone about what's going to happen to Phoenix, and it's shocking, man. This is some nutty stuff.

But again, this is the wages of imperialist waste. You burn all the coal, burn all the coal since the early 1800s. You burn all that stuff. Now you fucked around, and you've created this. on Storosity, Phoenix, Vegas, Flagstaff, Albuquerque, all these desert cities, you're not to be able to live there anymore. All of these cities, they're depending on what? They're depending on AC and access to water.

Okay, you got Cali, which is running out of water. You've got Washington State, Oregon, all of these places that are normally cool and rainy. Now they're becoming dry that turn into Savannah. Then you look on a global level, you see the left love of the earth, the Amazon, you've got Jair Bulsanaro that is a clear-cutting across the Amazon in another 200 years. That's going to be a Savannah. You're going to have wildebeest and buffalo and shit walking around down there. So we've realized, we've known for a long time, that the earth is a fragile thing.

You can't just take and take and take from it and expect it not to give you back to hell that you give it in. will it cause the collapse of America let's look at America okay let's look at America one country uses the majority of the world's energy majority of the world's resources go down to Walmart look at all that shit like come on yeah you go on the highway look at all those all of those middle class people riding around in their little SUVs and stuff like that you look at who's killing the planet it's not just a few people

although they're doing more than their share about having these corporations stuff like that it's a pattern in the United States consumption every 4th July we got to have giant meat and pork barbecues giant beef and pork barbecues shit like that

okay that stuff do you have these factory farms putting methane into the air like that stuff that stuff comes back to bite you in the ass like the United States is the world's number one contributor to climate change and to let's not even talk about reversing it because that's not going to happen but let's just talk about like alleviating or mitigating the effects of climate change

that would require a substantial decrease in consumption on the part of americans and america is a country that is founded on and built upon consumption like massive amounts of consumption conspicuous consumption Americans are not going to go through with that Americans are not Americans are used to a certain lifestyle they're used to a certain way of living they're used to being able to go down to go down to Chinooks and Deerburg

those at the grocery stores of St. Louis and buy massive amounts of beef and pork and stuff like that then hop in their Chevy suburban and drive back to their McMansion in the suburbs, a 40-minute drive. They're used to that. They're not going to tolerate any decrease in their standard of living. They're not going to be told.

Americans don't like being told what to do. They're not going to be told that you can only eat beef once a month. They're not going to accept that. They're going to get guns and go out and see what happened when they were told that they had to stay inside to avoid getting a nasty, horrible disease that will roach your lungs out from the inside and put you from a ventilator they try to kidnap the fucking governor of michigan so can you imagine what they're going to do when they're told that they have to modify their behavior patterns and their patterns of consumption to avoid something that they don't even

believe exists so of course it's going to drive america it's going to it's going to dash america apart because the rest of the world is they're going to tolerate this shit they're going to be like look You all are using up all the fucking resources, and y'all have to kill us. So, yeah, dangerous days are ahead. Will it pull America apart? Well, let's study how countries fall apart, okay? For one, the United States has massive ethnic upheaval and arrest. Okay, let's look at it.

Let's be real. Black people and white people in this country have lived together side by side for 500 years, and we still can't fucking stand each other. the indigenous want their land back you asked them what they want they want their land back and they're entitled to their land back white people do not want to give their land back and they do not want to live in peace with black people

then you have Latino people who are continuing to reclaim their land that was stolen from them during a Mexican war okay all that shit is going to is going to pop off am I predicting some massive race war of course not but look at

at Yugoslavia, okay, you had all of these different ethnicities thrown together that in many cases did not, they didn't see any relation to each other. Same thing with the Soviet Union. What happened? You had, of course, a lot of this was backed by the CIA, but you had what? Ethnic clashes. The Cossacks didn't want to be part of the Soviet Union anymore. The the Estonians and the Latvians and the Lithuanians. They had all these nations smashed on top of each other in one country. They tried to create a Soviet people. but it didn't necessarily work because these people they still saw themselves as Lithuanians, as Latvians, as Estonians, as Ukrainians, etc. Of course, a lot of this was

stirred up by the CIA, but at the same time, that was still there, just like in Yugoslavia. These people saw themselves as Serbs, as Bosnians, as Montenegrids, as Croats, not as Yugoslavs. So that's what led to, then boom, you've got motherfuckers ethnically cleansing each other. Will it go down the same way in the United States? of course not. Matter of fact, it might even be worse because again, you have large

segments of this country's population that absolutely fucking violently despise each other. Like, you literally you literally have people that see a Black Lives Matter protest and they are inspired

to rev up their Chevy suburban and drive up their Chevy suburban and drive full force into this crowd of people, man. That that is a sick psyche. And that psyche lies at the heart of the overwhelming majority of American settlers. You had people that were, you had literally had lynch mobs in this country that would go and kick in a family's door just because they were black,

dragged them out to the middle of the woods, and hang the whole family from the old right down to the baby. Like, who does that stuff? So, yes, America is coming to a reckoning. And then you look at the class contradictions here. You have a continuing gap between the proletariat and the bourgeoisie. And then you have a substantial chunk of proletarians that can't even be proletarian anymore. They can't even get a job. So these people are being forced into the loop of proletariat. They have to do illegal shit to survive. I read a story a few months ago about a mailman who had a cell crack on the side

out of his mail truck so yes this country is definitely heading for a reckoning there's so many contradictions so many issues so many antagonistic contradictions left untended that of and climate change just

might be the last domino because we could talk about oh we're all one country that shit like that okay you've got a water truck who gets the water who gets rationed AC this month. That's the type of shit that makes people kill, man. Yeah, exactly.

And we have this historically incompetent ruling class that, you know, is going to attempt and inevitably fail to hold things together. It already is. I mean, Biden is this perfect example of the dying American empire, this incoherence, this impotence, this inability to do anything. The state itself been gutted for 40 years of, of neoliberal privatization, it literally just can't solve even basic infrastructure problems, much less mitigate or confront the challenges of climate change.

And all of the contradictions that climate change is already and will continue to intensify. Your point about hyperconsumption and like the white suburban sort of hogs that will not give up the biggest trough on the planet, they will turn violent before they have to give up even one hamburger a year. we already see like Fox News playing into this idea like, you know, a couple months ago they were saying the Green New Deal is going to take away your hamburgers. People are ready to fight and die for that shit. The U.S. military, not only is the U.S., the highest, you know, contributor to global climate change and the largest carbon emitter, but the U.S. military itself, you know, emits more carbon

than 140 countries combined. So there's the imperialist aspect and its sort of contribution to climate change. change. And yeah, the pathology of settler colonial whiteness, it's not going to go, you know, gently into that good night. It is going to get very, very ugly. And a fallout of this question and seeing how that psyche is so prevalent in the settler white American mentality, how do you see the far right or, you know, what today is not, the conservative Republican Party is just shifting harder and harder to the far right every day, it seems. So how do you see organized fascism, white supremacy, etc., developing in the coming years as a result of all the things

that we've been talking about. You think it's just going to be spasms of violence? Are they capable of organizing at the level that it would take to take power nationally or regionally, or is it going to be like individual acts of desperate terrorism and whatnot? Well, I mean, you see what they did on January 6th. The left couldn't have put nothing like that together, mainly because we'd have been too busy arguing and then the other half probably want to go snitch on the other half

because, I don't know, there were trots there some bullshit like that. So and then you have QAnon which QAnon has more influence in American politics than the entire American left and that's just fucking sad.

Then you have like these people, they still a substantial chunk of the white American population still believes that Donald Trump is the legitimate president of the United States. So, and many of them are willing to become violent about the, like, do you all remember that there was a literal car bombing in Nashville that took out a whole city block?

And they're not talking about that on the news. They're not talking about that. Imagine if that was me or you, Brett, that set off a fucking car bomb in Nashville. They would not stop talking about the crazy fucking commies that blew up half in Nashville. But this dude, he did this, and I believe the only victim was his self. he blew up his van in Nashville and this shit is happening every day

and there's a campaign of suppression about it but as soon as a kid some scrawny 17 year old kid in black with the three little arrows on him throws a water bottle and a cop then it's Antifa coming to kill you all so the press is on our side

the presses are enemy and in terms of their actual power like a lot of these people have military training man a lot of these people are in the military I read an article like there was this guy

he was in the Marines he was literally planning to just go out and start a fucking race war like they have their own canon of ideological material Harold Covington's books

they have the Turner Diaries they have there's a whole array of white nationalist literature and I went through a phase where I read nothing but this stuff because it's good to understand your enemy like

violence is central to them okay they don't believe in sitting around on the internet complaining about this and then although you do have those types these people and a lot of these people are younger people mid-20s even teenagers

they have no ties a lot of these people are lower class they come from broken homes Okay, daddy's an alcoholic Mom ain't around They have nothing better to do To give themselves a sense of meaning Than to read

This shit on the internet And read these books And anybody that knows Anything about lower middle class white families They have guns All over the fucking place That's how they invest Yeah, exactly

Of course they're gonna go grab one of those things And go, I don't know Shoot up a Black Lives Matter out Okay, they called a dude in a county right by mine. I live in St. Louis City. This fellow was in St. Charles County. That's about 20 minutes at one of the highways. He was trying to bring pipe bombs to a Black Lives Matter protest, blow people's legs and arms off.

So this shit is going to escalate. Okay? Like, there is a war going on in America society. And if we're not careful and we aren't being careful, we don't lose. We're going to lose. Either the fans are going to come wash all our shit, or the fascists are going to come wash all our shit. Or most likely, they're going to work together to come wash all of our shit. Because the fans, let's be real, they've always seen leftists as being the main threat.

Okay, they can recuperate the rightists. They held their hand for four years. But they can't recuperate a real, they can't recuperate fucking Maoists. Well, Van Jones, notwithstanding, they can't recuperate real Maoists. Yeah, Van Jones, the guy that's on CNN, he used to be a Maoist. Interesting. That's a great. Yeah.

If I end up like Van Jones, you have permission to shoot me in the head. Oh, fuck, man. Yeah, yeah, it's not a pretty, pretty scene. Their ability to organize is, I think, suspect generally. There's certainly these smaller groups of organized, you know, white supremacists, et cetera, but I think there's a lot of machismo and everybody wants to see themselves as the next great leader on the far right and the fewer. Yeah, exactly, exactly. And like whenever these assholes get together in real life, like they just start splitting up just as bad, if not even worse than the left.

But it's these acts of either small organized acts of terrorism or these lone wolf acts of terrorism that I think will continue to to become more and more prominent and become just, I mean, to some extent, I mean, we are. know mass shootings are already the background noise of American society that we all accept. We just accepted last year 600 to 900,000 dead Americans, a World War I and a World War II amount of Americans combined dead. And half the country said it was a hoax and it's not even worth worrying about. And so, like, we're being conditioned into accepting mass death to memory-holing events like Nashville or mass shootings now. You can't even keep up with them i remember back in the day when columbine happened and it was the new story for months uh you know damn you're old yeah i am a little older but i remember coming out of school and

and like that was on the radio and following it the whole time um and yeah and that was just like how many mass shootings happened today okay yeah three just another day in america so columbine every every mass shooting shit i think those weirdos in column but i think they only killed like what 12 people yeah tamed by today's standard well that's a fucking shit Eric and Dylan they would be they would they would be

a miss today like I think you have mass shootings that kill fucking 60 70 people that one idiot that got up at a that hotel in Vegas with those he had a rifle a couple rifles with bump stocks he mowed down like almost a thousand

people injuries and I think he killed about 200 like that's Columbine is nothing yeah yeah exactly um and and i mean as a side note i it's like stephen paddock right we we still don't even know what his motivation was or sort of why he did that it's it's a very uh interesting and sort of dark rabbit hole to fall down is like what exactly happened on that day and why do we know so little still about what happened it doesn't cover up that's why yeah sure seems like it um do you before we end this conversation this has this has been wonderful and i really do value and enjoy hearing your perspective on things. As dark as things are, their reflection

of the real conditions that we're operating in. And it's sort of a grabbing the left by the shirt collars and shaking them awake. That's the sort of effect that you have that I appreciate. The new podcast is Radio Free New Africa. When is that slated to come out? I already have two episodes up. Okay, nice. I told people it was going to be weekly, but I got into some things. and I'm kind of two weeks behind. Okay. Well, I'll definitely plug that in the show notes so people can find that show quickly.

Is there any other recommendations that you would offer, any plugs you want to make, and maybe just let people know where they can find you online? Yeah. There is a care fund that I was asked to help plug for people that are in the CJC. Now, if you've been following news out of St. Louis, you'll know that there have been several uprisings there this year. The CJC is essentially the central jail in St. Louis, and the conditions there are abominable,

even more abominable than the average jail, hence the uprisings. And there's a care fund. It's at Facebook.com slash STL Rising 314. I'll send you in an email, a link to it. Also, if you're in a city with an FTP chapter, I highly encourage you to join. If you're not in a city with an FTP chapter, I just encourage you. urge you to get organized. Do something. Because time is running out and all of this. Don't just sit and listen to me and Brett shoot the shit for an hour and a half. Change starts with

people that listen to this type of stuff. If you are managed your boss. If you don't have anything left to lose, go out and start organizing with other people who are just like you. That is how revolution starts. Revolution's don't start by some great leader, uh, drop dropping from the sky, say, this is what you must do. Like, no, it doesn't work that way. If somebody comes along saying that you must do this, this, this, this, this, be very skeptical because that's probably a cult leader. And he's probably trying to recruit you.

So go out, find your people and organize. Because time is running out and is later than we think. And if we stand by and do nothing, or we only have a few people, a precious handful of people that feel driven to actually go out and try to change things, we're going to be subsumed. We're going to all die, and it's all going to be your fault. That's how I'd like to close.

Absolutely. All right, man, it's always an honor and a pleasure to listen to you and to talk with you. I'd love to do this again sometime. I'll put the links and where they can find you and your new show in the show notes of this episode so people can find it as quickly as possible. Stay safe down there in St. Louis,

and let's do this again. some time. All right. Thank you, Brett. And if that embrace scum gets up Kept that crap got in the butt Punch that nasty in the face Make sure that he still stars And when that cappy bag comes to Beating him to eat back and boom

Beat him off, beat him up, put him out, put him out Put a mouth, put him out Put a mouth, put him out Beat him out Put him out Punch that nasty in the fish No possession to enter space And when that fucking bitch comes down

Drag his ass through sundown town Punch that nice through sun down town Punch that knife She in the gun Lead him till he's piss and blood Make him say the fucking dead

Say that ass up All the same Beat a box Beat a box, beat him Boat Put a mouth Put a mouth Put a mouth

Put a mouth Beat him off Beat him off Beat him We want Peace So we'll be pieces

You kill us So they'll bring us Justice You're a relic A bird tire fucking system Take the platform

with them and I was Kank, take big heads Push that Nassie and the balls One been last any fucking balls

If that made up Brett tops back Jam that Martin and his crack Punch that Nassie and the throat That's the key waves with a left shot

They step back around his neck Tell the voice a string and hot Beat him up, beat him off, beat him off, put him out,

put him out, put him up, put him up, beat him up, beat him up, beat him up, beat him up, beat him up,

beat him up, put him up, put him up, put him up, put him up, Put him up, Punch a nasty Puncher Nancy

Thank you.