Rev Left Radio - Means TV: Anti-Capitalist and Worker-Owned

Starting point is 00:00:00 Hello everybody and welcome back to Revolutionary Left Radio. Today we have a shorter than usual episode for you. It's with Nick and Naomi from Means TV. They're talking about this new anti-capitalist worker-owned streaming platform project. They're trying to get off the ground and expand the entire landscape of left-wing media and creativity in our society. So it's really exciting. Very awesome to have these two folks on to discuss these. issues and I really encourage people to go check out means TV and if you believe in what they're

Starting point is 00:00:34 doing definitely support them you know like I say in this episode nobody's going to come to our rescue nobody's going to fund our projects nobody's going to sponsor us we have to build everything that we have to build from the ground up and we have to do it ourselves and so that sort of solidarity is absolutely essential in building anything even resembling dual power in our society and as always if you like what we do here at revolutionary left radio you can support us and get bonus content at patreon.com forward slash rev left radio. Now let's get into this awesome episode with Nick and Naomi. My name is Nick Hayes.

Starting point is 00:01:10 I'm a filmmaker. I was like a commercial producer and stuff like that for a long time. And now I'm one of the founding members of Means TV. And my name's Naomi Burton. I'm the other co-founder of Means TV. and I have a background in marketing and digital media where I work kind of in the corporate world until I quit and started Means with Next.

Starting point is 00:01:34 Yeah, and I'm really excited to have both of you on. We've talked a little bit before, obviously off-air about some of our shared goals and interests and what we're aiming for. And I see Means TV as really the next logical step and the advancement of the left-wing anti-capitalist media landscape. And more than that, you know, you're aiming for worker-owned structures and you're aiming to expand the political leftist realm to not only shows like this,

Starting point is 00:02:02 but even more creative stuff like animation and comedy series, etc., which I think we'll get into it a little bit, but I'm very excited to have you on. Before we get into the discussion about Means TV proper, maybe let's start with some personal inquiries, a little bit of humanizing so people can get a feel for who you are as human beings. What political tendency do you adhere to and what has your political development looked like over the past few years? I'd say I identify most strongly with anarchism at this point. And it's been quite a transition. Probably three years ago, I was a lib.

Starting point is 00:02:33 I wouldn't call myself that. I don't think I really understood that there were any tendencies outside of like Democratic Party loyalty. Yeah. So that's where I started. And then after the 2016 election especially, I was a supporter of Bernie's, but I voted for Hillary, fell in line, and was so disoriented by the Democrats fumbling that so much that I really had to look at my own politics and figure out, yeah, what I actually stood for.

Starting point is 00:02:58 So I became a Democratic socialist, got really involved in DSA. That's where Nick and I met. Then I became a socialist because I realized that Democratic socialist is pretty redundant. And now I've just fully transitioned to anarchism. Yeah, so that's where I'm at. What about you, Nick? I was sort of like, yeah, like a liberal who was rocked by 2016 and I got into leftism through podcasts like Street Fight Radio.

Starting point is 00:03:21 I literally just like called Brett from Street Fight Radio and said like I want to start filming you guys doing things and then he said okay so I started just like following them all around the country and they're both like notorious anarchists with like a you know Midwestern you know Midwestern anarchists and so that really like impressed on me the intersection of like drugs and fun and anarchism and what that can be so you know I am a DSA member and do DSA things but I think anarchism rules and is probably the best shot humans have at like, you know, living on any sort of habitable earth in the future. Yeah, for sure. Now, I definitely think that the 2016 election specifically was a huge catalyst for, you know, countless people in this country on the left to start seeing some of the failures and flaws of the Democratic Party structure and just how rigged the entire system is. And so I think that was a wake-up call for a lot of people. And definitely shout out to Street Fight Radio.

Starting point is 00:04:20 they are really good at making, you know, left-wing politics and anarchism specifically accessible, relatable. It's like two working class dudes talking about their kids and their lives. And, you know, that brings in a lot of people and makes these concepts, which might seem scary or weird to people. It makes it much more relatable and humane and humanizes our entire movement. So, you know, shout out to them. And it's awesome that the creation of means TV was sort of tied up with the development of street fight radio, etc. that's really cool it's very much like tied up in like the street fight mindset and this article from jacobin came out about bret and brian today and brian had a really thoughtful thing about anarchism in which

Starting point is 00:05:01 he said like to him anarchism is just the a variety of approaches it has the largest like variety of approaches to building like working class power in his mind where it's like dsac socialism communists like just popular kind of community based movements all of those sorts of things kind of fit under the anarchist umbrella. And I just thought that that was like a well-put street fight. Yeah. Yeah, that is cool. And I just, right before we started recording this episode, I just got done doing my second

Starting point is 00:05:30 installment of a new sub-series here on Rev. Left called In Dialogue with Anarchism. Obviously, people know me as a Marxist, as a Marxist, as a Marxist-Leninist. And so I'm doing this thing where I'm inviting anarchists on to have like really healthy, constructive, non-toxic, non-social media-centered discussions about our similarities and our differences. in part because I believe that regardless of where you fall on that spectrum of anarchist or Marxist, that we're going to have to work together going forward,

Starting point is 00:05:56 that we're going to have to have each other's backs, and things are going to get much worse as climate change ravages the planet, and these rise of fascism becomes more prevalent from, you know, all over the west especially. So I'm trying to be constructive in that way and build those bridges because I think they're necessary. You know, even though we come from little different areas on the left, we're still working towards similar goals and we still support one another's project. and we want to see one another succeed. And that's very much how I feel about Means TV for sure.

Starting point is 00:06:24 Yeah, totally. And it's like we all, yeah, we're all at the very least aligned against capitalism. And that's what, like, we're hoping with Means TV. It's like we're going to have everybody except for capitalists on there, you know, with different viewpoints. And we're hoping it can kind of be a centralized platform to exchange these ideas in a different format. Yeah, absolutely. And from what I've seen coming out of Means TV, which again, what we're going to get into a little bit more, I've seen great stuff coming through and I think one of the really shining bright spots that caught my attention

Starting point is 00:06:51 is just how relatable that you're making leftism just how humanized and how accessible this stuff is and that's going to be increasingly important as people begin looking for alternatives as the capitalism enters more and more crises as the center falls out

Starting point is 00:07:06 people are going to be looking left and right and the left has to be ready to welcome people in that might not know much about our history or our theoretical tendencies but, you know, wants to save the planet and save their own family going forward. So that's important. But let's go ahead and talk about Means TV a little bit more. Where did the idea for Means TV come from?

Starting point is 00:07:25 And honestly, what is Means TV? I mean, I think the idea for Means TV sort of came about around the time that we were in DSA, like, learning about co-ops a lot more and about like the political repercussions of just like a cooperative economy. And I was kind of like looking at the digital media landscape and like looking at what jobs were available and kind of, you know, looking at these different things that I for a long time had been shooting for and realizing they weren't that cool or good. Working on a TV show is like 80 hours a week, you know? It's like a lot of work. And so it's like none of these things seemed like good.

Starting point is 00:08:00 And, you know, me and Naomi have lots of friends that work in digital media and we're looking, hearing from them and it's like, this shit sucks. Like you can't keep a job for more than, you know, two years because there's such turnover and these companies are constantly closing. And it's like, you know, we wanted to apply the idea of worker ownership to media into like entertainment distribution and production, which is like what drives so much of our culture. So even before we did, um, you know, the video for Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and like all these other fantastic people who ran for office, we were kind of talking about the need for a worker owned sort of radical but big tent media network that distributes all sorts of content and sort of acts as a

Starting point is 00:08:44 legitimizing, like, platform to jump off of for this emerging, like, left media scene. Yeah, I mean, we were really, we were looking at places like Fox News and seeing that, you know, not only do, you know, as we were doing some of this electoral work, Fox News has a structure so that when their candidates lose, they get a TV show. They get a full platform that in four years or two years they can run again. And the left didn't have anything like that. And we knew we could do better than Fox News. No, but they have the largest cable. news viewership they have the youngest cable news viewership so you know they're doing something right they're winning a lot of the times it also says a lot about cable news audiences too

Starting point is 00:09:23 it's like nobody's you know most young people are not tapped in politically because there's nothing talking to them right there's nothing at all authentically like speaking to their experience of the world even the stuff with tendencies like I say I'm an anarchist but it's like really like I'm you know it's like it's all sort of the same it's very blurry to me like what is what and I think it's a matter much more of like building robust opposition to capitalism and getting people cool with like maybe throwing away some of these institutions we hold on to so dearly you know that are undemocratic and unfair sure yeah and if anybody out there is still skeptical about the role that media and cultural production play in our society i mean especially

Starting point is 00:10:06 the u.s society not only can you look at obviously huge cultural touchstones like game of Thrones, for example, but Fox News is an absolute monolith. I mean, Fox News is a purveyor of reactionary politics and has, you know, millions and millions of Americans, including probably many of our fathers and grandparents and uncles and aunts, sort of held hostage to their, their weird, brainwashy understanding of the world, you know, that ultimately serves reactionary fascist politics or pro-capitalist, pro-imperialist politics are really, they're all, you know, two sides of the same coin. And so, you know, having, a left media that can challenge some of that and offer different narratives and entice people

Starting point is 00:10:47 through accessible content is incredibly important. And we just need to look to things like Fox News to see how big of an influence, you know, stuff like that can possibly have in our society. Yeah. Or even like, you know, I really, I look at that stuff and that feels almost obvious to people, right? Like, oh, Fox News is so political. And of course they are in their reactionary. But like, I think about like, where did my worldview come from? And it's like, it's the TV and movies. that I watched as a kid and still that I didn't realize had a lens and came from a perspective because, you know, TV and movies are kind of packaged on this, in this neutral space. And now I see about five rich guys who are also like pedophiles, fund, direct, and

Starting point is 00:11:27 distribute those. And it's like, oh, oh, that's why I, you know, have all these kind of strained worldviews. Everything's political and like entertainment is so widely consumed. And like, it's like it's like one of the most consumable products in our society because you can watch a VHS or a DVD or whatever as many times as you want and just like download that straight into your brain and so it's like the perspective of all this media is like perpetuating empire perpetuating injustice and so if we have like a workaround model where you know the people in charge of creating and producing and distributing that entertainment have a stake in like improving society and like empowering working people, then we're going to have narratives and sort of undertones to, like, TV and movies

Starting point is 00:12:13 that are much more aligned with solidarity and aligned with building power for working people. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. So, you know, what are the short-term, medium-term, and even long-term goals for Means TV? What are you trying to accomplish both in the here and now and over, you know, probably the next few years, et cetera? So the short-term goals basically were wrapping up a fundraiser that we've been running for the last eight weeks we have two weeks left we're raising funds in order to have money for our shows our movies and the actual streaming platform that will come out in early 2020 so we're going to be

Starting point is 00:12:49 releasing content all this summer we have like lots of awesome like documentary things like news things live comedy events that we're going to be like releasing and filming all throughout the summer and then we're going to be basically launching the platform early 2020 for people to subscribe to and gain access to, like, a full library of content that's anti-capitalist, pro-worker, and we'll be building from there, basically. Yeah, and, you know, that's very important. You know, there's two weeks left for this fundraising. We're going to get into fundraising in the next question.

Starting point is 00:13:20 But, you know, we will link to that in the show notes. And I really encourage people to go support this if you can. It's really important that we depend on ourselves to fund our ventures and our plans and, you know, these new media inventions that we're coming up with because we're not going to have a lot of corporate sponsors. You're not going to have, you know, these huge mainstream people and channels and stuff getting behind us. If we're going to build anything as a left in the United States, we have to build it from the ground up and we have to build it ourselves. And we're actually, you know, trying to help on our part, not only by having this

Starting point is 00:13:51 interview and getting the word out about Means TV, but also we've been filming a documentary about Rev Left Radio that we've already talked with Means TV about releasing and distributing through that platform. So, you know, we're trying to help get the ball rolling in this direction as well. And if people are interested in that, that's where it will be. But let's talk about the fundraising a little bit. How is it going so far? You know, what's your ultimate goal? And why is it important for you to fundraise in this specific way as opposed to, you know, getting investors or taking out business loans, et cetera? Yeah. I mean, the business loans one is just that no bank would give me a loan. Yeah. The, like, otherwise, I wouldn't really care. But, uh,

Starting point is 00:14:30 The reason why we have to do it this way is because we don't want to be beholden to anybody and we don't want anybody feeling like we owe them a favor. We also worked in advertising for a really long time and know how corrosive relying on advertising money is to digital media and like want nothing to really do with that. So that's why we're launching a subscriber-funded platform. And, you know, we'll probably continue to run some different fundraising campaigns through the summer just to, you know, fund projects and do different things like that. But the fundraising so far has been, like, so impressive and so amazing.

Starting point is 00:15:08 Like, we have over 2,000 people who have donated to support the project. We've raised over $75,000 so far. And, you know, yeah, we feel like a ton of gratitude to the scene. Like, there's a scene of people, like, there's a building left and energy and, like, momentum and commitment from people to, like, build things for ourselves. and it's so cool, you know? Yeah. Yeah, it just wouldn't happen without, you know, without people like you guys and without just

Starting point is 00:15:35 everybody. I mean, we started this campaign. I think we had like 6,000 Twitter followers. We had no money. We have no money for like paid advertising. There are a handful of us, you know, doing everything. And so, yeah, to get the response that we have so far to feel like people really identified with this immediately and we're willing to give five bucks, 10 bucks.

Starting point is 00:15:56 And we know that's really difficult. for people these days. So, yeah, it's just been incredible to see it. And, you know, we got on Fox News and we pissed off them. So that's a nice cherry on top. Absolutely, yeah. Riling them up is always a good thing. And they gave you free advertising, which is funny.

Starting point is 00:16:13 Yeah, exactly. We'll take it. Yeah, definitely. So what are some of the names on the left that you've already gotten? You mentioned Street Fight, for example, but what are some other names you've already gotten to participate in this project? And who are some leftist and leftist voices that you'd love to get and work with in the future? Um, okay, people we are working with now, uh, street fight radio, of course, Sarajune out of L.A.

Starting point is 00:16:34 I'm just trying to, I'm like blanking on there. And Trailbillies work in parties. Yeah, we got, uh, Jake Flores in New York, Josh Androsky in L.A. And just great support from people like, you know, like famous people like Arish Singh too, though. Arrish Singh in Chicago is a great one. Yeah, and then people like Pamela Anderson, John Cusack, you know, like, you know, people who I saw on TV as a child. are, you know, very supportive of this and have been super helpful for getting the word out. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez has, you know, tweeted about us a number of times. All the friends, all the pals. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:17:08 Like, there's a bunch of other people I forgot to mention to. There's podcasts. There's comedy shows. There's independent journalists. There's writers. There's, like, activists, like, Tim Faust. There's this whole, like, beautiful scene of people that, like, you know, means TV is, like, an organizing project a little bit of just, like, centralized.

Starting point is 00:17:26 some of that energy and some of that power that we can wield. Yeah. And it's incredibly promising and impressive that you are able to pull support from, you know, so many different areas of the broadly conceived left. I think I heard you, at least one of the first times I heard you was on Chapo. I forget who the comedian was you had in one of your videos who she was drinking the

Starting point is 00:17:49 coffee cup and like sort of ironically talking about capital. Yeah. What was her name? Sara June. Yeah, yeah. She was great. I loved that, you know, and that was one of the first videos I saw from you. So, yeah, that's really cool to see so many different people from so many different backgrounds coming to support this project.

Starting point is 00:18:04 This isn't going to be a very long episode. I just wanted to get the basics out and make it as accessible to people. So we're sort of winding to two more questions, if that's okay with you two. But one question I definitely want to get out on the table is, is how can creators get involved with Means TV during this period where, you know, you're still fundraising and working toward a goal while simultaneously trying to get the word out and get more people involved? what are what can people do to help out if they are creative people and want to explore their art or projects through means tv i mean the best way if you're just like you know somebody who works in as a writer or in entertainment as like a you know camera operator or editor just reach out to our contact at means dot media email that's the best way to like get a hold of us and like we'll

Starting point is 00:18:48 put you into our like spreadsheet with people that's broken down in the region so if we have you know anything going on there or if you just want to connect like Naomi and I are always happy to like jump on the phone with people and kind of explain the project anymore or answer any questions they have. So I would just say shoot us an email. Yeah. And we're still kind of formalizing our pitch process, but we are taking pitches, ideas, resumes. So, you know, while we are fundraising, we're interested. We know that there's so many people with ideas and pitches that have been, you know, rejected or never even heard from all the mainstream networks. So, yeah, we're definitely interested.

Starting point is 00:19:26 in that. Yeah. And this is, just again to make sure people know, this is, you're still fundraising, still in the early processes of getting this thing off the ground. But just like, just when me and my friend who's shooting the documentary reached out to you to see how we could help, you were incredibly receptive, you know, immediately willing to jump on the phone and talk to us. And so we really appreciated that. And I know it's probably hard when your platform is getting bigger and bigger and more and more people are like, I have an idea, I have an idea, I have an idea, I have an idea. But you two have done really good so far. I really appreciate that. Well, we really appreciate that and apologize in advance for you know any delay in responses but yeah we're working our

Starting point is 00:20:00 butts off to be able to respond to everybody's reaching out to us and we just yeah we so appreciate the support definitely so if you want to repeat that uh that email one more time sort of folded into the answer to this last question but where can people find means tv online and most importantly how can people directly support this project and help with the fundraiser yeah i think the the best place to find us is on twitter at means underscore tv um you can find you can find us on YouTube, YouTube.com slash means TV, or go to our website, means. Media, where you can donate to support us in this campaign. And if you want to reach out with any questions or if you want to connect with us about

Starting point is 00:20:38 working together, shoot us an email at contact at means.media. Awesome. Is there any last things you want to say about your project about Means TV or anything before we wrap this up? No, just thanks for having us on the talk about it. And, like, I remember listening to Rev Left Radio, like, two years ago and feeling, like, very confused about how I fit into this, like, left political space. And, like, am I even useful or, like, what do I do? And so I appreciate all your work.

Starting point is 00:21:07 And, you know, like, yeah, we really appreciate you, Brett. Thank you. Nick and Naomi from Means TV, thank you so much for coming on. Let's keep in touch and keep working together. And I really encourage Rev. Left listeners to, you know, go out and support this project. It's really awesome and really promising. we absolutely need it.

Starting point is 00:21:22 Thanks so much for having us, Brett. Absolutely. Solidarity. Solidarity. Collise, Radha, Collise, rider, collise, collise,

Starting point is 00:21:56 I'm so surprised my mind's a total war. Rather, collise, rather, collise, collise, rather, collise, it's no surprise,

Starting point is 00:22:10 my mind's not, my mind's not, no more. Can I find a dream with the GED The recruiter shook my brother's hand He's a key So in his teens Humvee in the ID

Starting point is 00:22:42 Me and my mother we cried And I'm double white around the Christmas tree Better, collise Better, collage, Rather, collise I'm so surprised My mind to turn the war Better,

Starting point is 00:23:02 Collins, rather, collars, Rather, collise, rather, collise is no surprise My mind, my mind, my mind no more Collider Collise, Collapse, matter, collise, matter, collides, I'm so surprised my mind to tell you. Oh, oh, oh. Better, collage, fire, collage, matter, collage, matter, collage,

Starting point is 00:23:42 spread out the clouds It's now So cries my minds That might know We're not No

Rev Left Radio - Means TV: Anti-Capitalist and Worker-Owned

There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click on any sentence in the transcript to leave a comment.