Rev Left Radio - "No God Nor Country": Radical Rap in the Anthropocene (ft. Sole)

Episode Date: June 26, 2019

No God Nor Country is Sole and DJ Pain 1’s third album as a duo. Its an album that explores questions of existential meaning and revolutionary politics in an era of crisis, chaos, and ecological collapse. It is revolutionary rap for working class radicals trying to exist in the Anthropocene. The entire project is DIY and totally independent and both musicians handle the heavy lifting and deliver the music directly to the listeners, without whom these albums would not exist.  Support the creation and distribution of this album here: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sole/no-god-nor-country-by-sole-and-dj-pain-1 Sole's Bandcamp: https://sole.bandcamp.com Check out Sole's music, podcast and more here: http://www.soleone.org/ Check out DJ Pain 1's work here: https://www.djpain1.info/ Music used in the show, in order:  Battle of Humans by Sole & Pain 1 from the album "Nihilismo" Extremist by Sole & Pain 1 from the upcoming album "No God Nor Country"   ---- Support Rev Left Radio here: www.RevolutionaryLeftRadio.com    

cool thanks for doing this dude you know we didn't like we we don't really we weren't really going to do any press or any shit like that until we got the record ready so it's like it's cool that um you know you wanted to do this it's like an interesting point in the record uh kind of talk yeah and I guess this is you know we can just go

like we're recording on our end now so we can just kind of get into it Yeah, this is the first time I've ever done anything like this with regards to having an album and being able to talk about it like this. And I love nihilismo, so I was extremely excited to hear that you and Payne 1 were doing something else. And I thought this would be a cool way to help get the word out and help the sort of Kickstarter fund the entire project. So I'm excited to have you on. So yeah, so let's just jump into it.

For those who might not still know who you are, I know a lot of my listeners, obviously, know who you are and a lot of people involved in, like, Left Podcasts know who you are. but just want to do a quick introduction for anybody who still might not know uh sure my name is soul i go by soul aka tim holland his name i was born with um you know i'm a rapper i'm a podcaster i'm a you know i guess a sort of a farmer permaculture kind of anarcho doomsday prepper and uh yeah and i and i'm a dad now too so you know a couple of things yeah a lot of things um so what's this new project uh just like an introduction for people who might not have heard about this new project and what this episode is about uh the album is called

no god nor country it's me and dj pain one's third album and um i mean the cool thing about this record is it was recorded over a really long period of time or at least in like modern you know when like everything is done in like a weekend now like we spent we spent two and a half years making songs for this album. And it's just, you know, it's basically a continuation of our project. You know, me and DJ Payne one started making music together around 2013, I believe. And, you know, I'd always had like a fascination or respect for like the aesthetic of mainstream, quote unquote, mainstream rap music or what people call trap music or, you know, gangster shit or whatever. Like, that's the stuff I listen to.

I like it because of the way that like, well, I like the way it sounds. I like the way it moves. I like the approach. And I like that it has like this experimental, it's taken on a pretty experimental approach in modern times. Like, you know, there are albums by artists like Future or Kanye or something that are just really, in my opinion, very experimental stuff. And so I wanted to make music with someone who could make those kind of beats and do it

well and it just so happens DJ Payne one who like did stuff for 50 cent and ludicrous and all these people uh was a big soul fan and we started talking and just we started sending me beats we started making music together and so our goal was to kind of do something like you know public enemy but updated with more modern sounding music so it's like you know it's built to be adjut prop it's built to be propaganda for revolutionary politics but kind of packaged with like club beats in a more mainstream aesthetic because a lot of my as you know you know you listen to my music when you were in high school or whatever you know back then that stuff was it had social commentary but it was like I was rapping really fast my vocals weren't that clear the music was really heavy and so

a lot of times it was difficult for people to make out what I was saying even though I put all this effort into like writing this poetry that you know summed up the whole world or whatever in my when I'm 20 thinking I got it all figured out yeah we all do yeah and so it's like so it's like with DJ Payne 1 the goal was to like you know make music that's clear concise and hard hitting you know and so I felt like with Nailissimo we really struck like we struck on like a cool sound where like we're mixing the new stuff but also Payne 1 understands my line enough that he's able to like you know creep in some beats that might sound like a hybrid of like something that could have been on my first album but really updated with like you know and so it's like so we kind of like we're still doing the club beats but kind of expanding our palette of like what we're able to do and pain one is so versatile he works with you know so many different people that i can just be like hey can you send me a beat that sounds like this and then next thing i know i got like 10 of them in my inbox.

That's awesome, and I totally share your love of, like, current hip hop and how hip hop has sort of, you know, developed over the decades. And that leads well into this question, which is that one thing I think that both you and DJ Payne One do so well is that your art really evolves along with hip hop. It never gets stuck in a previous era. And yet you obviously both maintain a style and an approach that remains unique. And I've noticed that a lot of underground indie rappers from the late 90s and early 2000s around the era that you were coming up and I was really getting into a lot of that stuff. A lot of those

artists couldn't really keep up with that internal development of hip hop and they seemed to have been like stuck in the amber of the period in which they came up. So how have you been able to navigate that evolution in your opinion? And what are your thoughts on how hip hop has developed over the last two decades broadly? Well, to answer your first question, I mean, I think a lot of it, I mean, to be honest, I think a lot of it boils down to like the level of success that people achieve um you know if i was atmosphere and i was selling out red rocks you know 15 years ago doing what they were doing i don't know how much i would really feel the need to change what i was doing yeah you know um and so like a lot of the people i came up with you know a lot of them

either just vanished entirely which is what happened to most of them to be honest or um yeah and they're the ones you know people from that scene who keep doing the same shit i don't know i don't understand it personally you know to me art is about having fun and experimentation and pushing yourself and um and that's pushing yourself as a writer and pushing yourself as an artist and so um i i don't even understand how people could just keep doing that um you know i just couldn't live with myself and but i mean to be honest it's like you know i've never i've never been like a dude who sells out shows. I've never been a guy who gets a $10,000 guarantee to play a show, and I never really made music that people could sing along with. And so I always, that kind of gave

me the freedom to just do whatever. And over the years, like when I pulled out of Anticon in 2011, I just kind of went crazy and just kind of started doing whatever. And like the people who were still riding with me, you know, they like it when I do instrumental music. They like it when I do weird avant-garde poetry shit. They like it when I do, you know, when I'm like doing my Bobby Shmurda impersonations or, you know, it's like, and so I'm like, I feel like I'm lucky to have supporters who have evolved alongside me, you know, people who have discovered anarchism and radical politics through me, people who have become vegan, people who have decided to leave the city and go live off the land or become permaculturists. And so all these people

who've kind of been on this lifelong journey with me, I think a lot of that really has to do with the fact that I never really blew up. And I always stayed kind of hungry and curious. And I have ADD. And I just can't do the same thing over and over again. I can't live with myself. And, you know, part of it also is like also having... getting involved with social movements and you know realizing that music culture plays a huge has a big role to play in revolutionary theory and radicalizing people and and even for people who are already radicalized to like you know puff our sales up and give us something to get pumped about and so that also helped me to shift away from just making music as opposed to

like writing a little poetic journal entry to myself and I don't care if anybody gets it or not whereas now I'm like I'm friends with the blockaders I'm friends with the militants I'm friends with all these people all over the country who are doing real shit and like I feel a responsibility to like tow that line in art I mean also in the streets and with other things but like art is the thing that I do in a way that is unique to me you know that like there aren't a lot of like anarchist or rapper people doing shit the way that me and pain one are doing it and so i feel like a sense of responsibility to uh be the uh the burning vault of uh gold that you want to see in the world or whatever you know i was going to say burning cop car but i accept that uh yeah no i i love that

and it really shows how how versatile you are for you know for in any way that you're able to keep up with it you you can jump from an album like let them eat sand to an album like this with way different beats and productions and kill it. But you also switch up your flow and your cadence, and you are constantly experimenting and taking your art form in a new, interesting direction, and I find that fascinating. And then, yeah, the whole idea that people got into you as a rapper in the late 90s, early 2000s,

and then we're actually radicalized through your politics. It's pretty cool. I guess I never really thought about how you probably have fans that didn't have really good radical politics when they just liked your music but because they liked your music you were the sort of doorway into like anarchism or radical politics for them right and i mean the thing is music was my gateway into that too like i was um you know reading reading marks or whatever in 2001 and like you know watching noem chomsky videos and like trying to understand foreign policy and like i was essentially

a liberal you know and and then like for a while i was like i'm a communist and then somebody gave me an anarchist, an Emma Goldman book, and they were like, no, I think you're more of an anarchist. And then I read the Emma Goldman book, and I was like, oh, man, this is awesome. But really, even after that, I would say my politics were pretty, quote unquote, liberal up until Occupy when I really got in the streets. And it's one thing to read stuff. It's another thing to, like, you know, get pepper sprayed and to have to, like, come to consensus with people and, you know, grapple with all these real life things. and yeah and so I feel like you know because I use message boards and social media like I've always made it a point to like maintain like a close relationship with my supporters and so like again like all along like for a while you know you'd if you were a sole supporter you'd be seeing vegan recipes and Noam Chomsky lectures about Palestine you know and and that's just evolved over the years to um really to me making my own media along those lines, you know, becoming a podcaster through my music. But yeah, music has

shown me the world, you know, and like the cool thing about being an artist who travels and tours, like when you're putting your politics out there, you know, your travels and your art, like the interactions you have begin to shape your politics. Like I'll never forget one time I was on a panel and then Scott Crowe came up to me afterwards and was like, you know, the thing you said about if artists aren't in the street, fighting alongside everyone. If they're not out in the street, their studio gangsters

and their art is worthless. You know, I don't know if I agree with that, man. I think art's really important. And then, like, afterwards, I was like, yeah, he's right. You know, art is important. So it's like, everywhere I go,

I'm, like, meeting people. And, you know, the conversations I have with people at shows now are, like, inspiring and intellectual conversations, whether it's, like, with a young radical trying to figure shit out,

or, like, you know, people who are, like, doing some bold actions. And then, you know, they'll come out to the show and be like, yeah, it was just, just this afternoon, I was hanging from a bridge in Seattle blocking a, you know, an Exxon boat, you know, like, it's cool to be here. I'm like, fuck yeah, you're on the guest list. Like, come on in. Let's have a drink, you know. And it's like just talking to people and meeting people. And, you know, you mean, it's just, I mean, I feel like revolutionary left is a similar thing for you where you're just, you know, your ideas are being shaped through these dialogues and the people you're coming. into contact with oh yeah yeah it's been it's been huge and i was about to mention that exact thing is like i feel like i went through and i'm still always going through something similar with with this show and all the interviews i do all the people i get to talk to all the perspectives i get to see and then having those conversations also like in like a long form controlled friendly environment

really makes you absorb what somebody else's perspective is and you know after every episode i really try to you know take one or two things from at least from that interview and carry it forward to the future interviews that I do. And so in that sense, I'm always constantly growing and developing in like a communal interaction with the broader left community. And I think that's true for you as well

with the music and radical music scene broadly as well. Yeah, totally. I love that, you know? It's like, and I mean, shit, if we're not constantly being changed through the interactions we're having, like, what's the point? You know, if you just have like this fixed idea

and then you just are just going around just putting it out, everywhere. I mean, that's not, you know, that's not radical. That's not getting to the root of things. That's just listening to yourself talk. Yeah, it's dogmatism, exactly. So this album and, you know, you and Payne One working together, the last album that you and Payne One did together was nihilismo. And I really can't overstate how much I listened to that album. It was on regular rotation for at least a year or more to the extent that even my kids still to this day know the lyrics and they sing along with the choruses to pretty much every track and have their own personal favorite songs. Yeah. It's really cute, and it's fun as hell for all of us to be like screaming your lyrics on the way to a protest. So naturally, I was excited to hear about this new collaboration between you and Payne 1. But what prompted you guys to team up again and make this third album, I think, and what was your vision for the project at the outset? Well, we were always going to make another album.

I mean, we are always working on music together. So I think, I mean, the only thing that was a little bit different about this record was I was like, look man like our last album didn't do what i wanted it to do and like i want to get this next one signed i think i think we can do really big things you know um and of course that didn't happen but and so that was like the only thing different i had about it the only different vision i had about it was that was that i wanted it to get released on a bigger scale because i felt like under donald trump with everything that's happening like this kind of music with this kind of message in rap music really needs to be boosted and really should be heard by a lot more people and of course

like the way the algorithms are with like online extremism and shit like I can barely even run ads on my shit you know it's crazy um yeah and so that was like the vision was you know just making a record but what what made it like what the challenge was I went from you know not having a kid to then we make this album like because we we I was having my baby right as we were getting off tour, off our last tour. And so as soon as I had a kid, um, it definitely, it changed me. It changed my life. It changed like my workflow. And so we just had to work on this record really slowly, you know, because I was like releasing music through Patreon and using that to like, uh, maintain a working class living. I kind of had to slow down with

the soul and pain one stuff. But like, you know, I get to like live in these songs because the stuff I'm doing with Pain 1 isn't like the solo stuff I do. The solo stuff I do is like freewheeling. It's experimental. And it's more like, it's probably, you know, more poetic and, you know, kind of like more like my older stuff. Like just fucking not giving the fuck. And the vision was to, you know, was to like live up to the historical moment that we're living in. And that that is to, you know, like I said before, make music that is that agitates, educates. and inspires. I mean, you were talking about listening to my music when you go to a protest. I mean, I do the same shit. Like, like, a lot of times, like, when I'll be, like, feeling down about, like, I'll feel like, oh, man, that's so hopeless right now. I'll, like, listen to some of my music, and I'll be like, no, man, it's all good. Like, you got it. You got it. You already said it. You said it. You said it. Don't lose hope, man. Like, listen to yourself. Listen to your voice from like a month and a half ago, and that'll lift you up.

For real. It's so funny. Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, but sort of like, yeah, like, well, you have to be reminded of your own commitment and your own passion for it. And sometimes, you know, re-listening to probably your own music will spark that fire and be like, oh, yeah, kind of like contextualize this stuff for you and puts, you know, puts you back into perspective.

Or it just gets me pumped. I remember I'd listen to my music, like, when I'd be, like, in Denver on the way down to, like, a, you know, some anti-police shit or whatever. and I just like you know or some anti-Trump shit or whatever was going on like I'd like have my music and my headphones are there getting myself all popped up like yeah fuck I'm ready I'm ready I'm ready I'm not scared today I'm fucking I'm gonna take whatever comes what was the second part of the question um just I guess it was just like why you teamed up and then what your vision was for this project no vision man no vision I mean really I feel like the vision for the project form as we were making it. We made so many songs. I just had them just keep sending me beats.

And I didn't even, like, I sent you a bunch of demos and stuff. And there's a bunch of other stuff that I didn't even bother to send you because I don't like them enough to let people hear them. So we just kept making songs until we were like, you know, felt like we'd like struck some gold with some of these tracks. And like, okay. Yeah. And just from my perspective, the demos and the tracks that you did send me,

which were quite a bit and more than that are going into the, actual album, all of them were dope and all of them would have been awesome additions to this album. So I can only imagine how great this album is going to be, you know, when it's fully done and all the songs and track lists is put together. And then you'll have still a bunch of other songs that might not make the album, but are still awesome and deserve to get out there. And I'm sure you'll find a way to get them out. Yeah, I'm sure. I'm not, I'm not, again, we haven't, like, we haven't decided on that. I mean, we might just, you know, I don't, I don't want to say what we're going to do with them. Part of me thinks we talked about, like,

getting to work on another album immediately after this one to come out next year and then maybe taking all the tracks that don't make that album and then all the tracks that didn't make this album and then the tracks that didn't make nihilismo and making kind of like a from the vault kind of thing because when you have a bunch of like unreleased tracks from like different eras compiled it kind of because it's like the thing is like some of the it's not that like I don't like songs, but some songs sound similar, and some songs are saying the same things that are said better on other tracks. And so it's like, you know, just, you know, I'm not the best editor.

So I have to like, you know, I have to really learn to edit my stuff because like what makes an impactful album isn't necessarily a 100 minute album that like repeats its thesis 20 times. It's like, how do you say it the most concise way, you know, et cetera. Hey, can I put you on hold for one second while I piss? I'm kind of drinking a lot of liquid. Yeah, no problem. I'm not going to edit this out, though. Okay.

I just bring the mic into the bathroom. Hold on. Occupied North America and never killers. Living just to be rich made y'all kill us. Numb to your bones, but I know you're going to feel this. They said you both living a dream, but they made you annihiless. The trap of skates, suburban, boarded life seek something. Will he's sweet and bleak, here I stare, scraping for meaning.

5,000 years of smoke stain on my ceiling. Two of all my friends still stuck in this game. 2016, no robot maids, but tiny spas. Drilling so deep in my mind if you're looking for us, we ain't hard to find. Know by self-ass algorithm. Take no prisoners except my psyche. My pipe dreams, my unlikely outcome. Been fighting on all fronts.

Got them I'm spent, but I ain't done. Yeah, unto old glory, I know we ain't shit. Unto the cosmos, under the watchful gaze and it's got in law. Contracts in secrecy For the content of the universe Under the twilight of idols I don't give a damn for better or worse Damn it hurts

Living in the world Civil disobedience, jail time Killer cops get all There ain't no God in war zones They've been lying to your man No early retirement No glory on that battlefield The war is here

At the dinner table With water bills and marted friends Sometimes I run Sometimes I fight Sometimes I talk shit Sometimes I want to burn a hole Down down to a crisp But ain't nobody here can tell you shit

Because ain't nobody know what's coming next Sometimes I run Sometimes I fight Sometimes I talk shit Sometimes I want to burn a hole Down down to a crisp But ain't nobody here can tell you shit Because ain't nobody know what's coming next

I'm only human but I'm more I stand with all of my ancestors From rats and germs that fell from the sky To anyone who painted an ox on a wall To my father who's gone I miss you man but I understand You were working man And dying old wasn't part of the plan

But my mother raised me right Said to you Ain't nothing promised in this life But don't go stand in your pockets I'm all coping your mind A rap because I know what time it is A rap because there ain't no time left The physical became the ethereal

Yeah, we still said we drop it on wax We don't need no enlightened assholes Be cool To you learn to listen That's the only way they're gonna hear you Oh shit All right All right thanks, sorry about that

Yeah, no problem All right, so moving on I wanted to ask you this question Because I was listening to the songs you sent me And you know, themes stick out In your music broadly and I was listening to one of these songs and it reminded me of this theme that appears

in your music but I think it appears in a lot of our psyches broadly and so I'll just get into it in company time one of your tracks you say quote to know me means that you might not love me I'm ready for the rev but I hate them all in my city I don't mean to say that but these days I kind to do what does that leave

a one man commune that's no commune at all I highlighted that line because I think it gets it a certain tension in your music and in your life and that's the tension between a sort of individualist retreat into nature in the face of climate chaos and empire decay versus a militant collectivist impulse to organize with others and fight back. So what are your thoughts on that on that tension and how it appears in your music and your life? Um, no comment. No, I'm just kidding. So, um, no, that's a really, I mean, that is, I mean, honestly, like that is really to the core

of where I'm at right now. Um, and so like speaking to that line, specifically, I had gotten to a point where I felt like I was just surrounded by flaky and bickering and apathetic people in Denver at a certain point. We had a really strong militant scene for a very long time. And then all of a sudden, there was a bunch of drama that happened. But then at a certain point around Trump getting elected, like no one seemed to know what to do. And even before then, actually, now that I think about it. And I was, and I was, I was just sort of just getting irritated with everyone. I was like, where's the sense of urgency?

Like, can we, can we at least commit to getting together and fighting back, like, once a month? And can we show up on time? And can we have tactics? And, you know, like, we're in a city that's being massively gentrified in a world that's burning with a fascist president. Like, can we fight back? Or are we just going to, you know, talk shit?

Are we going to talk shit about each other? Are we just going to, is it just going to, or we're just going to descend into drama and have the ruling class get their way? And I would say the ruling class got their way. Yeah. And so, like, I always use the, I've been using the term lately, like this idea of like an atheist bapt, of an atheist baptism. Like, I don't think it has to be you're engaged in struggle or you're retreating to nature. I think, I think you can do both. And I think there's, there's also other ways to be a hyper individual.

individualist. Like me personally, because of my experiences with like the Anticon collective and how badly that ended, I am really weary of being in cultish, collective activists environments that are like stifling. And I feel like there's a real lot of that. And so throughout all my activism, throughout all my organizing, like, you know, for a while, I was like, doing stuff with Unicorn Riot, but I'd never joined the collective, you know, I was doing stuff with, you know, sometimes I'll collaborate with a range of radical projects, but I'll never join them because I just like to maintain my autonomy. And that's just the way I am. That's how I'm hardwired. I'm fiercely independent. And, you know, my wife is the same way. And so, like, for us, it's like, we're not going to join a commune. You know, we're not, we're not going to at this stage in our life, we're not going to create an intent, you know, round up a bunch of like strangers and move to some intentional community in the woods. And so we've settled for

something in the middle where we're in on the borders of a rural area and a college town where we have a little bit of land, but like I'm still an hour and a half from Boston. I'm 25 minutes from Portland where, you know, it's a city. And I've also like linked up with lots of anarchist farmers in Maine and we're like you know creating like a you know just creating a loose mutual aid network and you know just feeling things out and and doing work along those lines and so to me like you know I think building infrastructure building capacity building communities of mutual aid I think that stuff is really fucking important because like all the struggle all the you know all the militant struggle like all the things that we can do all the organizing workplace organizing all the things that we

do, it remains to be seen whether or not any of that is going to have an impact on global warming or what's to come. And so, in my opinion, it's like, when history is happening, you got to be there, you know, in my opinion. Like, if shit's going down in Portland or Boston or some local metropolitan, I'm going to be there. I'm going to be taking risks. I'm going to be with the people, you know, I think of like history as like this force where, you know, during Occupy or Black Lives Matter or the movement for Black Lives or you know even like during the early Trump shit when people were fighting back like if everyone shows up and everyone fights back we create mass movements you know it's like how do you keep that going how do you

sustain that but even if all of our efforts work global warming is still happening climate change is still happening yeah and so this idea of like for me staying in the city and just like focusing all my struggle and thoughts around like city struggle and urban struggle kind of misses a lot of opportunities for other kinds of organizing and other kinds of struggle because again the ocean levels are still still rising like the the forests are still going to burn the desert's going to grow like shit's going down it's just like how fast how fast is that happening and so it's like I want me personally personally, I want to know how to grow food. I want to know how to make medicine. I want to know how to

dress a wound. I want to know, I want to understand homeopathic medicine. I'm into permaculture. I want to learn how to develop a vegan approach to living off the land, you know. And also as like a dad, I don't necessarily want to raise my kid in a downtown area. I want to be somewhere that's a little more more natural um and so i think like for me more of it just boiled down to like an aesthetic choice of being like i just can't live in this city anymore i got a i want to try something different i want to be closer to my mom i want to have a better environment to raise kids in we have another kid coming in september awesome congrats on that by the way brett we got we got to we got to outbreed our enemies we can't we can't just have the right wing being the only ones having babies i feel you yeah

And you and I are doing our part. Hey, we're trying. Well, one thing you said there that I think is really important. Actually, two things. One is this idea of, like, instead of doing an intentional community or trying to build a commune, what you instead did was form a network of anarchist farmers and sort of a loose informal network of, like, mutual aid programs. And in the context of that, you're all also building up food self-sufficiency and skill-building,

skills that are going to become increasingly necessary as we enter this new epoch of climate chaos and I think that's actually a way more effective strategy the one that you're employing as opposed to this like hipp because you know hippie communes you can have like hippies and colts that make communes that that do nothing broadly and I'm not saying people shouldn't do that if that's on their you know to do list or that's one way that they want to express their activism but I really love this idea of like mutual aid networks and food self-sufficiency and it's also something that I'm trying to take seriously in my life although not to the point that obviously you know you've been able to climb to.

But the other thing I wanted to say is also like this, I called it an individualist retreat into nature. And in some respect, it's individualist in that, you know, this urge to like just turn away and recoil into your own personal life is an individualist choice. But on the other hand, at least in my experience with my constant urge to commune with nature and to be out on like solo trips by myself in the woods,

it's really not so much an obsession with my individualism. it's more like self-negation, right? It's almost like when you go out in nature alone for a long enough period of time, the boundary of the self starts to become blurry. And it's that that I think I actually seek in nature as opposed to like a navel-gazy, you know, obsessive introspection. Does that make sense? No, totally.

I mean, you know, and this is like one of the things I personally like struggle with in my life, like the almost the only time I get lost. anymore is like when I'm in nature or when I'm farming or when I'm like walking around my trees and like like I lose sense of time I I I don't think of anything else like my phone's in the house I don't even have music I'm listening to birds I'm like you know um and I just it's I love it um and I wish that that was and I mean the thing is the reason why we love it is because this is in our DNA, this is how human beings lived, our whole existence, like, you know, as part of, as part of nature. And, you know, sure, we, we had a little more skills than, uh, than some of the other

creatures in some regards, not in all regards, but we, um, you know, that's, it's part of who we are. It's like a, it's a much more intense part of who we are than like staring at screens or working or sitting in a desk for 10 hours a day. I mean, this is a whole other thing, but it's like, of course, you know, look at our society. People are on, like, people are killing themselves. They have like deep anxiety issues, like all these, all these things in our world that are like deeply wrong. And like, so they put a band-aid on and they give people anti-anxiety medications. Now they're legalizing weed everywhere. I'm cool with it. But it's like, there's a reason they got to. Yeah, exactly.

You got to, man. Like, otherwise, like, and, uh, and that's our, that's our, that's our, our natural state is to be moving around, to be exercising, to be using our bodies, using our arms and hands that are tools that are meant to be, like, doing things. And that's why we're, like, obese and, you know, sick and unhealthy because, you know, and, uh, yeah, that's why it's a better way to spend your time. But, you know, all that said, it's like, I am a fierce individualist. I won't deny it. won't you know that doesn't make me some libertarian i'm like you know i give you the shirt off my back i'm i'm engaged in struggle i'm you know i'm out there i can be generous you know whatever but at the end of the day it takes a lot to to win my trust i guess yeah no absolutely and then you have your family to take care of and you know i always say that my first responsibility

in this in this entire world is to take care of and protect and provide for the children that I brought into it and you know all other responsibilities pale in comparison to that and then I have a bunch of secondary priorities that I are very committed to but at the end of the day like I always say like if my activism or my organizing or anything like that negatively impacts my very own children you know then I'll I have to correct for that and in some ways that's individualist but in other ways I think it's just because we're human beings like we're not a completely collectivist nor a completely individualist animal and we have to have a healthy dose of both. Right. Healthy individuals make healthy collectives and healthy collectives give rise to healthy individuals. So it's really not a dichotomy. It's like this dialectical interplay between these two aspects of being a social animal, being a human being in the cosmos, you know? No, totally. Because if you're like a miserable asshole that's stressed out, you're no good to being part of any group projects. Right. Right. So as we descend to the end of our conversation here, I just want to ask broadly, like what do you hope people take out of this album?

What do you hope people walk away from this album thinking or having in their mind or, you know, anything like that? Just take that question wherever you want. Well, I hope it's, I hope it's something new that I haven't thought of. And then they can tell me what it is and maybe that will, you know, give me some something to chew on. But, I mean, you know, honestly, like the album title, no God nor country is, you know, there were a bunch of atheist undertones. on the album and I am an atheist and I'm like I'm still not sure why there was so much like there were not like a ton of atheists stuff but there was like it crept in there at multiple points I was like that's weird like and I think it has to do with like having a kid and like

experiencing all this death and just like grappling with like the idea that there's no afterlife like you know that sucks yeah I fucking I fucking hate that shit guy you know I want to fucking go to heaven and hang out with Emma Goldman and but I think in like there so that's like a one thing I'll say about the album is like I don't like the new atheists I don't like a lot of anarchist atheists talk I I'm not trying to be reactionary um but at the same time you know I work with church groups I work with people who who have deep religious convictions and I you know I'm totally down with it it's it's fine it's just this album the title no god nor country to me was more a statement against um like certainty. Like, we live in very uncertain times. And, you know, there is no, there's no one coming to

save us. There's no one who has a perfect blueprint that we can follow that's going to, like, lead us to the, the holy land, you know, of revolutionary liberation and egalitarian joy for everyone. We are out to sea right now, you know. We are sailing into the unknown. And I think I want people to embrace, embrace the unknown and embrace the uncertainty of the moment and maintain their curiosity about these ideas and to continue to, you know, interrogate them and try them out in the real world and develop a practice and that involves like, you know, study and living in real life, a real authentic life that is worth living. Like, our time here is short like it might be shorter than any of us knows you know so it's like how do we you know how do we

balance all that you know and you know that's what i'm grappling with this album is like being a new dad in the anthropocene under fucking donald trump you know as an anarchist grappling with all these ideas and all these like harsh realities and just trying to like maintain my course and so i think that's what I want people to take away from it is just to maintain a sense of curiosity and never to think you have it figured out and to always be open to to the moment you know because you know you're a you're a Marxist you know I'm an anarchist and the future will like it will likely be neither you know and so like how do we engage that I'm always thinking about collapse you know and so I think about building infrastructure that can be you know multi-generational

So that like when these moments where mutual aid is so necessary pop up, like we have those things. Like if the if the state were to cease to function, you know, how do we build with our neighbors? How do we live in this world? How do we fight? How do we fight back? And that will continue to change as our tactics are absorbed by the state and absorbed by our enemies, you know?

And so yeah, that's what I would say. This is an album that says, Maintain Your Curiosity, you know. The future is uncertain, so pick up your pen and let's write the future together. Well, you know, that's, I think, so important. You know, you said that I'm a Marxist and you're an anarchist,

the future is going to be neither. And I think that's definitely true. We're going to be navigating a world that none of our comrades in the past have ever had to navigate and what that will require from us is not a sort of dogmatism or the sort of navel-gazy obsession over tendencies, but working with principled comrades, going into the future,

developing our skills to help others out and working across tendencies on the left to make sure that our communities and our families are safe. And anybody who wants to convince you otherwise, anybody that wants to convince you that we need to make these hard and fast and permanent divisions between us on the left, they're just playing into the hands of our enemies more than anything. and you know you said in the beginning of the answer to that question that you mentioned atheism but it's not a reactionary new atheism and i really want to like just reiterate that it's like

when when your existentialist musings arise you know when your atheism arises it's always a reflective um you know compassionate one it's it's one that understands the religious impulse and in some ways if you're like me at least or sort of admire and sympathetic to the religious impulse and in our own ways you know that that religious impulse manifests and us as well so it's it's a very open-ended loving sort of existentialist atheism not a reactionary chauvinist new atheism and i think that's an important delineation fuck those people for real all right so thank you so much for coming on so this is dope one thing i want to say before we close though is you are still in the in the process of DIY funding this project is that right

so can you talk about that and where listeners can go to support and help fund the completion of this project? Oh, that would be awesome. Yeah, we are funding our album through Kickstarter. We still have about 40% to go in about two weeks, which is, you know, about $4,000 to raise in a pretty short period of time. So if people want to help us back the album, you can go to tiny URL.com forward slash no god nor country, or you can go to my website, soul1.org, s-l-e-o-n-e-org. and every physical purchase comes with a reader so the reader has like the lyrics and then an excerpt from a text

that informs or inspires the song and so you know that's a and I found a really cool place to get books made that are really nice would be nicer than the other ones I've done and so that's like you know the little bonus thing that we're giving out with our Kickstarter so yeah people you know this we got vinyl coming out CDs, little books, some collector stuff, and if people want to help us fund it, that's a great way.

And if you are listening to this album, sometime far off into the future from the socialist utopia of 2020, when Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren and AOC just abolished capitalism. And like, it's luxury queer space communism for everyone. like if you're listening to to it then in that far off future where everything's fixed you can still go to my band camp s o'le dot bandcamp.com and buy the album there and uh and or or you can find me in the far future um concentration camps which have been um expanded to include anarchists communists and uh And I'll trade you some potatoes for Hot 16.

Hell yeah. Go support Soul, go support Payne One, support their new project. I've listened to the whole album, which I really appreciate and value the opportunity to check it out before other people get to listen. And if you like the musical sensibilities of Revileft Radio, you like the sort of general musical interest that I have pop up on the show, then you will love this album. and it's a dope way to support a comrade putting out dope art so definitely go check that out all the links to all of that will be in the show notes thank you tim for coming on i always appreciate talking to you brother oh hey one last thing yeah check check out my podcast the soul cast of course of google that shit and yeah thanks for having me on brett you know i love your project i've loved

talking with you over the years and uh let's keep going man let's keep going absolutely all right solidarity have a good one man They say I'm an extremist Because I place more vacuum One of the form of life This is my home Not a motherfucking resource They say I'm an extremist

My grandfather went to France And we're supposed to sit around for four years Well there was a Nazi in the Oval Office Nah They said bend the knee I say my back is sore They told me get a job I already got four.

They tell me I'm white, but I wasn't before. Bacon's rebellion, pittus against one another. But hey, nothing sacred, not even the economy. We think cash rules. It's all ideology. I mean, Michigan drinking water is still toxic. Both castaways, 3% killer still walking. We spent 700 bucks a month on health insurance.

But when we had a kid, it's 10 cheese out the pocket. And that's some real WTF, real talk. Two years later, we still pay a month. that off. But here I own some land. I ain't got no college debt. There's more than I can say than a lot of folks I met. But we split hairs. They go split atoms where I stand like years to the left of Rachel Maddow. Anarchist like, oh well, punionists are no committee. We defend our neighborhoods. They bomb cities on J20. Some windows got smashed. Cops got what they had coming. Mass arrested everyone and tried to give them life in prison. From the comfort of your

M.O. You've called them extremists, but we're living in a nightmare. Sometimes it feels they're the only one's dreaming. I'd rather hug a tree than a motherfucking cop. Place more faith than a seed than a fucking bank. We don't need a kind of me. What you say is sacrosan. Pitch more value in a data set than a human life. Don't compare us with the white supremacists to shoot schools. Because when the hurricane hits, we'll be there with some food. And when you go and strike, we'll be there standing with you. And if you never see the life, We'll be making candles too Oh, this that shit that got MLK killed

Not the MLK, they taught you In the public schools They call him an outside agitated too Of course we're outside As you hide behind your walls It was a brutal world You installed like a Sikai Koo Built on a hill of lives

Till that live became true And it's all we ever knew Can't see past it Everything you stole Your grandchildren inherited Welcome to America We'll make it out alive Another brick in your pyramids

part of you die. Don't accept this as your life. Father taught it was a shame. Died alone in a trailer with no penny to his name. It's indedged servitude. No one should believe in this. And as we speak, millionaires are buying up streams in lakes in New Zealand,

building doomsday bunkers. What about the rest of us who can't afford to leave this mess that you made? So if resisting this makes me an extremist, then that word is utterly. meaningless.