Rev Left Radio - Omaha To Denver: RevLeft Radio in Dialogue w/ Solecast

Episode Date: October 10, 2017

Brett travels to Denver to meet Sole from the Solecast IRL and have a discussion in Sole's home together.   Topics include: their Podcasts and why they started, being a leftist parent, hip hop, the responsibilities of white rappers, the differences between organizing in Omaha vs. Denver, gentrification, what different tendencies can learn from one another, and much more.    Check out Sole's podcast and music here:  http://www.soleone.org/ And here: https://sole.bandcamp.com/music   Please support us on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/RevLeftRadio  and follow us on Twitter @RevLeftRadio  Follow us on FB at "Revolutionary Left Radio" Theme song by The String-Bo String Duo which you can find here: https://tsbsd.bandcamp.com/album/smash-the-state-distribute-bread      

Please support my daddy's show by donating a couple bucks to patreon.com forward slash rev left radio. Please follow us on Twitter at Rev. Left Radio. And don't forget to rate and review the Revolutionary Left Radio on iTunes to increase our reach. Workers of the world, unite! Revolution Revolution Revolution Revolutionary left the radio now

Oppose the system Any way you know how Unite the left against the capitalist lies And liberate the proletariat's mind Fight For the working class Hard for equality Fight against the right free

Fascist ideology Tick it in and turn it out loud. Revolutionary Left Radio starts now. Welcome to Revolutionary Left Radio. I am your host and comrade Bred O'Shea. And today we have kind of a collaborative effort between me and Soul from the Soulcast. I went on a recent trip to Colorado.

I visited Denver in Colorado Springs, and while I was in Denver, I met up with Seoul. He invited me into his house. he was extremely hospitable and he had a beautiful family and we kind of recorded a back and forth where we each kind of played the interview so we kind of switched off questions and asked each other questions

and then we were going to release them both through our own podcast and maybe cross-pollinate our listeners and our audiences we talked about a lot of really interesting stuff we talked about hip-hop, white hip-hop artists talked about being a leftist parent and we talked about podcasting and why we started So it's really interesting. I had a really great time.

Sol is just an awesome fucking comrade doing a lot of great work in Denver. But the other thing I wanted to talk about before we go into this show was I met with the Colorado Springs Socialists, an organization in Colorado Springs of really good comrades doing really good work. I was very honored to meet them and to talk with them, to share drinks with them. We had some great discussions, and they're just really good comrades. So I want to give them a huge shout. out. You know, Colorado Springs socialists are comrades of mine. They're great people. We had

great discussions. And I also wanted to use it as a little talking point where I urge other people, other leftists organizations to reach out to local and regional organizations. If you're in a certain part of the country, you know, reach out two cities over and talk to those comrades. I know with security culture, it can be a little difficult to do it purely online. But I think it's important to try to maybe send out a representative or two to meet other organizations face to face and talk through some of these things, learn from one another, learn from what you've done wrong or what they've done wrong and how they've improved it or how you've improved it. It's super important to let's not let our paranoia reduce our opportunities to talk to one

another because, you know, national organizations are one thing, top-down organizations are one thing. But what I really would love to see, and I think a lot of leftists of many different tendencies would love to see is a sort of coalition of local organizations coming together and building from the bottom up, you know, national or at least regional organizations. It's extremely important and it would keep any organizations that arose regionally or nationally. It would keep their roots in the communities that they're popping out of. You know, it would be organic and grassroots and that's really important. So I urge comrades to reach out to other localities. Be safe about it, of course.

but try to reach out and try to form networks because that's one of the advantages I think the left has over the right is that we know each other, we love each other through activism, we build our solidarity, we build our trust, and we're going to need all hands on deck in these next couple years, not to mention the next couple decades. So reach out to other comrades. So I just want to thank MC Sol for allowing me into his house and having this great discussion. And I want to thank Colorado Springs Socialists for inviting me out and paying for all of my beers, which as a broke motherfucker, I deeply appreciate. So thank you, comrades, for that.

So, yeah, here's the interview with Seoul. What's up, Brett? Welcome to Denver, dude. Yeah, thank you. It's nice to be here. Nice to finally meet you. Yeah, yeah. I'm going to listen to your podcast a lot, and so it's fun to do a joint podcast.

I've never done this before. Yeah, I go way back with your music in the early 2000s. I was big into the indie hip-hop scene. So I listened to you, you know, Sage, Slug, all those, all those dudes, Aesop Rock. So that was my, that was my shit back then. And so only recently, right before I started making my podcast, I discovered yours, I was like, oh shit, people are actually doing this. And I was like, that's soul. I was like, no way.

So funny. Here we are sitting in the same room together. That guy can read. Yeah. Yeah, it's cool, man. It's really fun. It's a fun format. hell yeah it's a great way to get to meet cool ass people talk about stuff that you care about it's awesome yeah

i can't say i've met anyone through my podcast that wasn't cool absolutely yeah and we're in the process that i talked with dan errol about this the podcast or the process of building up a community um you know through these podcasts we talk to each other we share guests and we get to know one another and there's like a certain community of leftist podcast i think is really beautiful and it's relatively new i guess only just come on the scene yeah well i mean i think it's like you know people are so used to putting on NPR or democracy now and it's like you know sometimes we want to go a little deeper yeah yeah yeah I deserve it definitely I was just talking to my friend there day he's talking about listening NPR and I listen to it when I go to work and come home

and I was like it's a great gauge for your liberalism because when you start yelling at the radio when NPR's on like you used to yell when Rush Limbaugh is on you know that you've been too far to the left that little shit can't even take it anymore that's awesome so yeah let's go ahead and I guess since we're both podcasts we both kind of fall into our interviewer put our interviewer hats on so let's go back and forth and ask questions all right um so let's start about political development I think it's interesting to to hear about that stuff so what was your political development through your teens and 20s to where you get to now um I would say you know when I was I think 12 or something I mean my political development is weird because

I felt like I was a white kid that didn't have any culture and Then I started listening to hip hop at a very early age, like 11 years old, 12 years old, and that was in the 90s. And so the stuff I was being exposed to was like KRS1, Public Enemy, X Klan, like really political. And even the gangster rap that I grew up on was very, very political. And so like literally reading KRS, listening to KS1 on Public Enemy, maybe research Malcolm X and the Black Panthers. and at age like you know

I think of like eighth grade school reports about the Black Panthers and and I always like you know I joke on baddest poet I wanted to be black at age 14 I actually said that to my parents I was like I wish I wasn't white

you know white people have no culture you know and of course my development is I've developed a little since then and then you know I just kept reading and and hip hop was just like was the bridge and then basically I just stopped reading around where I feel like hip hop got like political hip hop got really cheesy to me in the mid to late 90s like I really just felt like

people had shitty selection and beats we're making wax songs spitting bumper stickers it just didn't I felt like it was just cheap it's sloganeering and so I around that same time I like I think I was 18 then and I like you know found a nichee book and I I used bookstore and I just like took it home and like just read it and like I didn't understand it at all but I just loved the language and so I just started like really thinking about philosophy and then when I moved to the bay um you know I had a friend who was like you know listening to my music and was like a real big fan around the time of bottle of humans and stuff and was like look you you give a really good voice a really good writer but you really need

to um educate yourself a little more because you're not using your platform the way you could be, you know, just writing these diary wraps that are like vague social critiques. And so I took it upon myself to educate myself. And then but I didn't take it very seriously. And then 9-11 happened and we were in New York like I was on the airport, I was on the, I was in a car

driving to pick up pedestrian from in New York. And I could see the smoke and and I was just like horrified. But I also had no idea why it happened. I didn't, like, at that point I was like okay I can't just be vague I have to know what I'm talking about I have to research this stuff I have to learn it I have to know the history of empire the history of capitalism and so I just went down this rabbit hole where you know I read Noam Chomsky's book on 9-11 that read me

to how that led me to how that led me to like harpers and things like this and then um then I read the communist manifesto and I really liked it and then I was talking to a friend about Marx. And then my friend's like, dude, you are not a fucking communist. You are an anarchist. Check out this Emma Goldman shit. And so I read that book and I was like, holy shit, this is amazing, you know? And then, you know, I just, then I moved to Spain a couple of years later and I just read Situationist stuff and Foucault and like a lot of just philosophy living in like weird places like Spain or Northern Arizona where I just read and red and red. And then when I moved to Denver, Occupy happened. I'm around all these

anarchists. I'm around all this theory and it all kind of came together for me and you know and then from there I just kept watching in learning and reading and asking questions and trying to learn just like you. How about you? Yeah. No, yeah. Similar in some senses in that I think hip hop was a huge influence on me. So I mean I was always a working class white kid of course. But when I was introduced to hip hop it opened up this whole new realm of sort of like this is an experience of people in your same society you don't live in the black community but here's an empathy doorway right so by listening to these people um goody mob soul food that album for some reason just stuck with me and i loved it and they were talking about those issues and they were giving it from their perspective and then um dead prez was a huge

influence on me so i was always like liberal progressive um but when i heard these really like conscious black hip hop artists. That was my first real introduction with these ideas. And let's get free by Dead Prez was monumental for me. But I still, of course, had a lot of liberalism to outroot. You know, you don't just become a radical overnight. That liberalism is deeply ingrained in your consciousness. So it takes a little longer. I went to school, philosophy, so you're going to bump up on Marx and stuff when you're taking philosophy courses. And I was always like, I was always started calling myself a socialist at that point, but I still had a lot of liberalism to get through. and ever since then it's just been

you know you're putting liberalism like it's a it's a muddy pool it is yeah well I mean I just think

we're all conditioned with it so if you're going to really think critically about politics you're going to have to wrestle and confront your own liberalism you can't just take it for granted you know and so that was

that was kind of a process I had a weird experience too I got really depressed I was hospitalized for depression and when I got out of the hospital I was still in high school. My dad said he lived in Montana.

My parents were divorced. I went up to Montana to live with him, and we lived right outside of the Crow Reservation. So I'm like 18 years old, just coming off a huge depressive spiral downward. And I got to see firsthand what it was like for Native Americans and the poverty that they live in, you know,

and the absolute just absence of resources from the broader society to help them at all. And they were so used to it. As I walked in a kid from Omaha, you know, a relatively large city, to this little town on the side of a reservation, I was shocked at the poverty of the Native American community. So, like, through hip-hop, I got introduced to struggles of the black community.

Through my experience, I got introduced to the struggles of the Native American community. And so that kept influence in me. And then just growing up poor, working class, Marxism, anarchism, leftism, generally, that spoke to my experience way better than liberalism did. You know, liberalism has a tendency to be smug and elitist and dismiss poor people as trailer trash. or hillbillies or hicks and that's not fair and it never sat right with me because i'm like no these poor people aren't just dumb that's not where they're poor it's deeper than that um so

all those experiences kind of collected and here i am yeah we're doing podcasts i'm organizing and i learn every day from talking people like you and organizing in the streets with with my community so it's a constant process of learning yeah nothing no pepper pepper spray is the best teacher yep i felt it i felt coughs in my back fuck them yeah man well um you You know, your podcast is one of my favorite podcasts. I listen to it weekly. I have tons of friends who also love your podcast. I really, you know, I love just how you do these long-form things.

We just dive in on a subject. They're well-researched questions. Like, you know, you take it very seriously. And what I like about doing these podcasts is, like, selfishly, like, you know, from an audience of one perspective. of like, if I was the only person listening to my podcast, I'd be like, it's awesome. You know, this is the kind of conversation I'd be having at a bar. So, you know, in that, like, what are some of the biggest takeaways or, like, the big lessons

or things like nuggets of wisdom that you've learned through your podcast, like various guests or things that you've learned? Well, first of all, thank you for saying that. I feel the same about your podcast. I would have been a podcast fan for years, but I never saw any left podcast. They would be podcasts that presented themselves as left, but they were just like progressive social democrat at the most. And so I got kind of fed up and then I heard your podcast like,

oh, this can actually happen. It's actually happening. And so I was like, well, I want to make a podcast that I want to listen to. I think you kind of touched on that. So that's kind of the start of that. But as far as takeaways, you take away something from every interview. You're educating your audience, but you're always, always educating yourself too.

So every single interview I've ever had, there's been, if only a line that my guest said, sticks with me, you know, or an explanation of an event that I didn't know, sticks with me. And when I do episodes on, like, Kurdistan, the Rojavan Revolution, or Venezuela, those are topics I am not an expert on by any means. But we have these experts, like George Sicorel Omar and Dr. Thoreau Red Crowe coming on, who've done the work and have researched and lived in those places, visit those places. And so I learned from them.

And so all that history, you know, Mexican Revolution was another episode I did. I didn't know. I didn't know shit about the Mexican Revolution, but now I have my brains, like I read a small book on it just by doing the interview. So I take a little bit from everything. And that's also why I try as hard as I can to diversify the sort of people that I talk to, because I want to hear different experiences. I want to hear what it's like to be, you know, I'm trying to get somebody to talk about queer theory and trans issues, because that's important to understand and learn about. I had an episode on Marxist feminism, episode with, I'm going to release later this week with somebody with a black woman who lives. lives in Charlottesville, right?

And she's an activist and an organizer. And she was there when the Nazis are carrying torches through her city. And she talks about, you know, the experiences of looking up on the hill and seeing, you know, Thomas Jefferson statue, somebody who owns slaves and sexually assaulted his slaves. And it's just like those experiences that I can never have, but I can talk to those people and I will learn from them, you know. Right. I think you might share that. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, for me, it's like, I mean, it's pretty much the same thing. I'm like trying to think of like other specific things and like the stuff that pops out to me the most are like you know McKenzie Wark saying you know that I had like a reactionary view of technology and he's like a spoon is a technology a rock a throne rock is tech everything is technology

you know technology isn't limited to digital internet stuff and even that is just a tool it all depends on how you use it and it's like and so for me I'm just always moved by nuance I'm just always like you know because even like in radical circles we're taught to see things black and white and when you know I'm always just like I feel like I need to talk to elders who can bring me back down to earth to be like look like it's not as simple as you might want to think it is it's actually like way more nuance way more complicated and absolutely yeah absolutely so I guess we could talk about why you started it I mean I would be interested I like talking to other leftist podcasters about what prompted them to start it so why did you begin yours you know i was working at when i moved to denver um in 2009 i uh i got a job at um it was like a internship kind

of thing at this place down the street called denver open media and they are like the local broadcaster for democracy now and uh free speech tv is situated out of there and like it's a it was like it was I got really lucky to be offered a like an intern paid position over there and so I was working there and you know they're like oh you know we'll give you a membership you can produce stuff in here and I was like well I always wanted to do a talk show about philosophy where I just like nerd out like at the time I was like really into Gijsac and like kind of postmodernism and I was like you know I would love to just have a talk show like this and they're like let's fucking do it like right now you know and and then like and then i was like you know i don't want to be on a camera though

yeah i'd rather just have a radio thing like i'm not someone who wants to sit there and watch two people talk like this i want to i want to i want to listen to it the way i listen to the way i throw lectures on when i'm like washing dishes yeah gardening or going to work whatever whatever um and so from there i just was like you know what i'm gonna i'm gonna do a podcast And it just came from, like, you know, hanging out with people like bus driver. It actually came from being a rapper who gets asked stupid fucking questions in interviews where people just ask the most vatic music journalism is so shitty. Yet when I would go talk to my artist friends, I would be so moved by how smart they were.

I would be like, God damn, like, why doesn't anyone really ask these people what's really going on, you know? and so for me like I was really interested in how to like merge like that like revolutionary theory with revolutionary artists and even people who aren't like organizers like just people who are smart you know and as it's evolved through the time through time like but and I didn't even listen to podcasts when I started making mine you know and like and like and I was just like really nervous in the beginning and like like you know just trying not to sound stupid in front of these people I really respect that's a huge thing and um And then it just evolved, you know, and, you know, and so now I'm not going to have to go to college.

Yeah, yeah, that's how you do. Well, you know, why did you start yours? Yeah, I mean, I would, so I was active on social media, creating left-wing pages, right? So, like, socialism, anarchism, communism, is a somewhat big page, libertarian Marxist musings. You know, I'm behind those pages with some co-admins and whatnot. And I would get really good feedback when I'd say stuff. I would put ideas into words well. And that comes from my philosophy training, I think.

And I've always had a way with words. And I was like, well, how could I, I don't, I work a shitty office job. It's depressing. It's existentially vacuous, you know. I want to do something in my spare time that's meaningful. And part of that is definitely organizing. But I always, when I was going through school for philosophy, I always want to be a philosophy professor.

I was like, I always wanted, that would be an awesome fucking job, right? Me too. And then I realized, oh, that's not going to fucking happen. Why not? Um, just it's very competitive. Like, it's a very competitive field. And unless you're getting out of the top colleges, you're not going to, so there's lots of reasons why I just didn't work.

And I was, you know, a poor working class dude with two kids and I can't go through grad school for fucking seven years. Right. So I just had to do it. I was like, well, here's an idea. Maybe if I make a podcast, I can interview people that know more about things. I can learn and people might, I could use my pages that I've ever created as like my marketing vehicle.

Right. So I say, all these people that like this page, well, then you're definitely. going to like this podcast. And it kind of took off from there. And so then I kind of have that approach as sort of like philosophy oriented to the way I question things and the way I think about theory and stuff like that. And so it's kind of turned into like this weird way I kind of am not a philosophy professor, but I'm kind of helping philosophy, you know, political philosophy get out to people who otherwise don't take the classes, you know, are cost prohibited from entering college or whatever it may be. They're just going to their job at whatever

the fuck and they can throw in those earphones and listen and learn. Oh, I didn't know anything about the Mexican Revolution. Well, instead of reading a book, because I'm pushed to the metal all the time, trying to make ends meet, I can pop these in and I can learn about the Mexican Revolution. Right. So it's like it's an extension of my activism is how I would

view it. Yeah. And I feel like that's I don't know if that's what they call low theory or but it's like, for me I draw from like, I think I was really inspired by what submedia was doing. And like the way they were trying to take these like big ideas and boil them down and make them digestible, you know, um, because, you know, the other thing I noticed is like when I would read

when I would read a Jijek book, I didn't like it. But when I would hear him speak, I'd be like, this guy's smart. I think he's Jijek has gone way off the deep end. I don't fuck with him anymore. Yeah, yeah. But, um, but people like that. And so it's like, it's like taking, making this shit palatable for me personally, you know, and if, and if I can get other people, can, I was going to say there was a move after the 60s I think where leftism kind of retreated to academia

and it really was in the 80s Reagan and Clinton in the 90s left wasn't really popping off we saw a little bit of 99 with the WTO protest in Seattle but I think what's happening now post recession especially is we're being stripped back down into the working class so many of us

no matter if you're a hip-hop artist or an academic or whatever you may be and then there's an urge to take leftists and wrench it out of academia and put it back in the streets because it's so needed now right and so part of what i view us doing is is doing that you know marxist jargon high fluent theory is it turns a lot of people off you know they they feel like i don't have this is not my place and that that's so counterintuitive to what leftism should be about revolutionary politics should be about which is getting people involved normal people you know and hitting the streets together and so hopefully all these podcasts contribute contribute to that right

It's like, say subjective again. I feel like I'm not sure it. It's just say subjective again, what the fuck? You identify as a Marxist libertarian. Yeah, well, libertarian Marxist. Yeah, or anti-authoritarian Marxist. Libertarian has weird connotations.

I definitely don't mean it in the American libertarian way. Of course. Yeah. And so I'm curious, like, what do you think are some of the biggest lessons that anarchists can learn from traditional communism and vice versa? Yeah, I think it's a really good question. And because I kind of view myself as sitting between anarchism and Leninism, I'm not either, but I draw from both.

I like this idea of learning from one another because I think that if you just get sequestered into your own little sectarian pods, it's interesting and you can still learn a lot, but you learn a lot by learning about other leftist tendencies. So what I think anarchists generally can learn from Marxists, and I was an anarchist at one time. I ran in anarchist circles. I have a lot of anarchist friends, so I'm not speaking from a place of ignorance,

would be the materialist analysis that Marks talks about. So he's always talking about trying to understand events and historical happenings through the lens of how things develop, how the productive base of the economy develops, and how that leads to class struggle or revolutionary events and all those things. Sometimes some corners of anarchism, I think,

can be too ideal. idealistic, which is like, no gods, no masters, fuck the state, smash it, and then they don't really bring that down. Like, okay, well, now how can we actually make those ideas work in the real here and now? And that's not true of all anarchists. There are plenty of really good principled anarchists that use materialist analysis and understand that stuff. But I think because of all the great platitudes that anarchism has, it can draw in some

edgy liberals, you know, who just like saying those things, but don't really connect it to the day-to-day struggles of working people. And then when you're talking about vice versa, I think some Marxist Leninists, they don't realize how putting power into the hands of a state, how that creates another class. So if you take the people and you say, here's the Marxist-Leninist state, it's going to work in the name of the working people, right? Well, just because of the fact that there's a small handful of people with a disproportionate amount of power, that's going to skew. how they view things. That's going to skew their interests and their incentive systems and how they operate and how they think because they become detached

from the working class. And so I think one of the failures in a lot of Lenin Estates is precisely that the government detaches from the people and pursues its own interests. Sometimes it helps the people, sometimes it doesn't, but it's something we should worry about. I don't want, and, you know,

Dr. Bones always says this, I don't want a gun shoved in my face by a Soviet cop. Right, right. And his big point he's trying to get at is, I don't want to just live under the same power dynamics and just have a red flag instead of an American capitalist one. I want to be free

and I want any transition state or any sort of revolutionary movement to take into consideration the freedom of all people. So I think they both have something to learn. And that's why I would like to see anarchist and Marxists engage with one another more in a less sectarian way.

Don't approach it like, oh, this is an anarchist, fuck this, or this is a tank. I have nothing to learn from this guy. Tank. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? Try to learn from each other. You don't have to compromise your principles, but you can still hear somebody out. And you probably share most of the same principles.

You're anti-capitalist. You want equality for all people. That's a great starting point to have discussions. Right. And I try to decrease sectarianism and increase inter-tendency discussions. I think that's important. And we're kind of small. Like, if we break off even further, like, here's the anarcho-communist, here's the Marxist-Leninist, here's the Treskiest, you know, here's the mutualists or whatever it may be.

You're just dividing us already small pie into millions of little smaller pieces, and that's not a good way. to gain power or to make a to make a movement a mass movement so and i feel like a lot of people like you know i mean i may be wrong about this but like you know i feel like ever since occupy i feel like most people who are organizing are using consensus are are in agreement about horizontalism um you know of course like groups like the iso aren't and there are groups that still um you know are still pushing for a vanguard and it's kind of hard you know that's like the i think that's like the challenge for anarchists and anti-authoritarians is like you know how do you how do you engage with someone who believes that a tiny group of people who know the most know what's best for everyone and

that's the yeah no definitely and i totally understand i i totally see why anarchists would be very especially historically there's been lots of examples where you know leninists have fucked over anarchists and a lot of anarchists today don't forget that right and they fucked over their own people they did they did in a lot of instances you know but they're but you know the part of me being a libertarian Marxist is I like to emphasize

the more democratic anti-authoritarian elements of Marxism because I think they're there and I always say that I think that if Marx met Stalin he would fucking spit in his face right I don't think that Marx is thinking Stalin is the guy you know Marx Marx lived as an anti-authoritarian

he got kicked out of country after country He'd get in conflicts with the cops. You know, he hated the state. He was always banging on it, always calling him out. He'd get kicked out of this country, go to a new country, start talking shit to that government. So, I mean, there's lots in Marx that anarchists can learn from. And it would be a shame if they just shut Marx out

because of, you know, the worst excesses of Leninism. Right. Absolutely. So something I've wanted to ask you, I never, I did do an episode of hip hop and race way back in the early days of the podcast. But, you know, as I said earlier, I've been a fan of, of your music and your genre of music for a long time. So what do you think the connections are between hip hop and leftist culture?

We touched on it a little bit in our political developments. But is there something broader there? Does that music lend itself to a radical critique of society in any unique way, in your opinion? I think it's both. I think that, you know, there was a, you know, a period in history

where, like, black nationalism radicalized a whole generation. I mean, if you, you know, if you talk to I mean many people in our generation and older and younger all were radicalized by this kind of shit.

Definitely. Public enemy, X-Klan Boogie Down Productions, artists like that NWA. NWA. Ice Cube and that and so like that to me like that is one thing I would point to is like I've long wondered you know how interesting it was how like gangster rap was so

anti-authoritarian was so subversive. And then once the record labels who are owned by weapons manufacturers, you know, once they got their hands on hip-hop and like we're able to like twist the gangster shit

to become something entirely not subversive. Yeah. And so there's you know, although I think hip-hop is the best, one of the best platforms, I don't that it gets used to that way.

I think that, you know, like for instance, like when I made the transition from being like a vague poet, avant-garde, experimental, whatever, a lot of, like, I got so much kickback from old fans who were really just upset at my ideas.

And we're like, just go make bottle of humans again, you know? And, but what's happened, though, I feel like really, post-Fergison you know post Black Lives Matter actually hip-hop

black music has it has become a much more looked at and an important medium you know where now it's like you can find mixtapes of just tracks people made after Ferguson

I don't know if you've heard the antagonisms mixtape like the antagonisms mixtapes are fucking amazing Like, I don't know how this person finds all this shit, but like after Ferguson, after uh, Baltimore, after like, any time there's like a major uprising, somehow these people go and they find all the fucking, um, mixtape tracks and shit that people were making. And so like now, if like Stimulator has a show, weekly show dedicated to radical hip hop, you know, and that's part of like this whole push that's happening right now where like, you know,

what if the fucking record labels don't want to support radical music if the if the fucking hipster media wants to fucking make fun of people who have something to say guess what no one reads blogs anymore and no one needs record labels anymore and so like you know again and and one other thing I'll add to that is like through the work of I want to say people like Chesky and astronautalists and like these rappers who have really like been pushing DIY house shows, you know, for the last five years and like DIY spaces and DIY venues. Like a lot of rappers were not doing that, you know, and now, and now hip hop is

actually creeping into punk culture, is creeping into DIY spaces. And, you know, I was really opened up to that when I was on tour with Pat the Bunny. And, you know, I'd get up there and people would think I'm a folk artist. I'd press play in like some loud asses. fucking 808s would come on and they'd be like what the fuck is this you know and a lot of those people you know so yeah I mean that's awesome I mean the only the other thing I'll add to that is like um I do believe that hip hop music is the um like folk music of our generation you know the same way you know Woody Guthrie or Pete Seeger or Phil Oaks you know shout out to all three of them if you don't know who they are check them out I feel like they um

you know, the way that they would, like, you using absolutely nothing to make something and speak plainly to the situation, hip hop now has that ability. Like, anybody can make a beat in their bedroom. Anybody can record a fucking album on their phone. And so it's like, so that opens up, that democratizes hip hop so that anybody, anybody can use them. And so those are some of the links. I think, yeah, you're seeing that affect music and you're seeing an effect, I mean, what are leftist podcast, if not finally the technology coming down to the regular people. Because we couldn't

have done this 10 years ago. It would have been cost prohibitive. But because of technology, because of the internet, everything is changing. And you're starting to see this overlapping of genres and cultures, radical leftists, with hip hop artists, with folk punk people, you know, and this cross-pollinization. One thing I did want to kind of expound on that a little bit, you know, black hip-hop especially came out of black struggle. It came out of people in black communities in the 70s, 80s, being destroyed by Reaganomics. being marginalized for, I mean, this entire history of this country is the marginalization and destruction of black people, black communities, black bodies. So it comes out of this beautiful

struggle. It's struggle music. You know, that's kind of its beginning points. So as a white hip-hop artist, in doing black music, what are the responsibilities that you see to pay homage or at least respect the background culture? And what are some mistakes you see from white hip-hop artists who just jettison that culture and just kind of appropriated and do their own thing without any care to people that came back in the day and put in the work and got that, you know, whole culture going. How do you think about those issues? Well, I mean, I think about it in a lot of ways and it's, and, you know, it's very, I mean, when I was early in the 90s, you know, I was the only white rapper, you know, in my town and, or I wasn't, there were others,

but like, you know, I'd go to battles and I'd be the only white kid and I'd win. And I'd win. and I'd get in fights and I'd get jumped and you know for white people to go into those spaces back in the day you know like I'll never forget the first time I went to Project Blowed in South Central Los Angeles in in like the late 90s it was or you know it was like I don't want to say scary but it's like you know the whole world wasn't fucking gentrified and safe for white people to just go around and fucking act make bro beer rap you know what I mean like and so

for me it's been really interesting you know to watch it shift um and you know what's the responsibility of a white artist you know I mean obviously to pay homage to recognize to recognize you know my privilege to recognize

who's come before me to always like point back to those things and to call out white people on their bullshit um you know i've there are a lot of and it's just so weird to watch it shift because like once the internet once scenes were no longer

localized and like the internet became the thing like now you can have somebody like riffraff get up there and like no one's going to say shit or somebody like you know somebody stealing like action Bronson you know he's stole a style

from a black dude ghost face yeah he stole a fucking style and because he like is marketed properly with like his beard it's like you know nobody says shit you know interesting and and you know or even like an artist like Mac Miller who you know made his song Donald Trump

that I like made a remix of to be like you got Donald Trump all wrong motherfucker like this dude's a fucking Saddam Hussein you know and that was in 2011 and I mean some of the mistakes I mean I can talk about some of the mistakes I've made like when I when we were doing Anticon

you know we were um it ended up being just a whole bunch of white kids that found each other through technology we were all middle class lower working class people we weren't rich we weren't college educated but like what we were doing was so heady and philosophical and like we called it like music for the advancement of hip hop you know if there was an older cat in the room they would have been like yo you need to fucking check yourself you know like that's shit is offensive and yeah and like you're a bunch of fucking white kids you're all white like saying there's no women in your crew and you're and you're talking about advancing hip hop like you need to fucking check yourself and you know and so that so did you learn that lesson quickly or did no no it took me a while because to me it was all about art and it was about aesthetics and I was like you know what I'm sick of this New York shit I'm sick of this shitty hip hop I'm sick of like everything's sounding generic and the same like we're doing

something different you know and um and you know yeah that's something i would go back and and change and um and even today i mean you know you have artists today who who like i just played a show with a rapper i'm not going to say his name and um and afterwards you know and i was like you know one point i asked the crowd i was like trying to play it light you know i wasn't trying to be too over the top. So at one point I just asked the crowd, when's the best time to punch a Nazi?

And everybody's screaming. I'm like, I can't hear you. When's the best time to punch a fucking Nazi? And then I was like, the crowd liked it? Yeah, but then like, but afterwards I'm getting hate mail about it. Like, I can't believe you got up there and spewed that hate.

And I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, it represents a failure of your music if people in the crowd at your show are fucking racist. Absolutely. and that's something pain one talks about a lot is just like how you know nowadays a lot of these all right motherfuckers like they're going home and listening to little yaddy yeah yeah you know and so i mean i think that on on onus is really on everyone it's not just on white rappers like yeah white rappers need to respect the fucking craft and respect the lineage and respect where all this shit came from um and especially to pay respect to the ogs like if you if you've gotten your if you've gotten to where you are you are on the works of someone else. And one of those people who, like, I think of, like, some of the OGs who I know, like, they're

struggling, you know? And it's like if you're not reaching back to lift those people up, what are you doing? What are you doing? That's not the criticism that McElmore gets. Broadly, you know the notion of white people calling other white people out. So, like, especially in these heightened times of, like, literally white supremacists and Nazis marching through our streets, Black Lives Matter. struggling for mainstream majority support

Kaepernick being shut out of the NFL just for politely taking a knee during the anthem The onus is on every white person who really cares about liberation to speak out And to not be complacent and to not be silent Because to be white and to be silent at this moment in history Is to be a moral coward Right know of the worst kind

Right So you operate in white spaces call that shit out We have little platforms on our podcast or through our music or whatever we do Use that to call other people out or to move forward the movement for black liberation because it's essential support black lives matter you know unapologetically with no caveats yeah if you have a problem with me supporting black lives matter say it to my face and we can fucking you know get intense with it because i'm not going to back down even an inch on that right those are some things i think the least we could

fucking do well and the only thing would add to that is also um you know it reminds me of the situationists who i you know who had a profound impact on how i thought about about art and what they always said that spoke to me more that has become like my life thing is go beyond art you know go beyond art like for me it's not enough to know know some shit and say some shit i want to go out there and and meet my words with actions i want to stand behind what i have to say and like for me the way i see it like in these in this critical period of human history where we're looking at the fuck we're living through the end

of civilization like whether it's global warming capitalism collapsing like the threat of nuclear war like the shit we're looking at is so fucked up and if we're not using our platforms to get people to take action and to educate people on these things

then like we're not doing shit you know and like and it is especially imperative for white rappers who make black music to recognize where the fuck their music comes from and just stand with the press communities you know so

let me see who who are some of your favorite philosophers that are coming from a non-anti-capacan and I know you're like a philosophy you have a degree in philosophy like you're you know you mention all these people on your podcast

that I've never read and so I'm just wondering like people who aren't necessarily like revolutionary anti-capitalist Like who are some of your favorites that we should all know more about? Yeah, a big influence on me just existentially has been Buddhism, the philosophy of Buddhism. I find it fascinating and I've found personally that through meditative practice, which I was really interested in after my depressive episodes as a late teen, meditation was my way out.

It helped me figure out what was wrong with my mind and sort of work on it. But as I meditated, my capacity for empathy, empathy and compassion grew. And it was a really weird thing. And that kind of facilitated a move leftward politically for me because my net of empathetic concern widened. And that's the core of the thing that Buddha always talks about. You know, if you deconstruct your mind, you sit in meditation, you watch how your mind works. You can start to deconstruct this hard, rigid ego, the self, you know, that blocks you off from every other person and makes you self-interested and stuff. And in my experience, that's been helpful for me. And I find a lot of beauty and

therapeutic advice and actual ways to bring it about via practice that I think is awesome. I mentioned on one of my podcast, Schopenhauer, he took some from Eastern philosophy. He's a hardcore, like, a cynic and almost a nihilist. Like, he's a curmudgeon old fuck, but he inspired Nietzsche. So one of his first philosopher, he discovered is he found an old Schopenhauer book as a young man, went home and he's like, I just read, I just tore through it. and that was like one of his most foundational influences struggling with that it doesn't speak so much to collective struggle or anything like

right it's very much how does an individual survive in a post-god environment or you know in a situation where you don't think there's anything after life and that life is ultimately meaningless what do you do then right and he was one of the first philosophers to really touch on that I also find a lot of value in existentialism and stoicism again two ways for the individual to kind of cope with

you know the absurdity of life and depression and how nothing ever seems to make you quite happy enough and eternal striving and all of that and I think if you kind of work on yourself you become a better organizer you become a better educator you become a better comrade because you're more self-aware and that can only help and then the final thing I'd say is debates and philosophy about free will are really interesting and they have political implications a lot of stuff coming out of neuroscience and coming out of the field of philosophy of mind is kind of almost getting to a consensus point where like where's free will like it can't really exist you know i don't want to go into that whole argument but if you do take those arguments seriously and you do kind of have a skepticism about the

reality of free will then that creates like then you look at people who maybe sell drugs and are locked in prison like well what in his life led him to do that is it really just he's a shitty person and deserves to sit in solitary confinement which is torture or is he a product of his environment and his genetic makeup and he really couldn't have done it either any other way and so let's reframe how we think about prisons and criminals maybe prisons the worst way to treat people

you know maybe we need to abolish fucking prisons and think about ways to rehabilitate people maybe maybe you know so I think the free will debates have a lot of implications for left wing philosophy if we take them seriously and engage with them so that's cool

who are the free will philosophers it's mostly just a discussion in philosophy where everybody has their input it's not in a way like you can like Nietzsche was a proto-existentialist and you can trace that whole thing back to him so like you can even go back as far as maybe like Hume and stuff and they're starting

to touch on issues but then with the rise of neuroscience it's giving a lot of objective data that philosophers then take and a bunch of different philosophers will work on that well look at what neuroscience is saying about free will what does that mean philosophically and so that's kind of a thing that's popped up in the last 30 years or so that's a big

debate and it's raging and you know and uh it's interesting to follow that's awesome yeah that's awesome yeah i've never uh it's funny you say that about buddhism because my wife is i don't think she's a buddhist but she definitely has a meditative practice and uh i mean i know i just know a lot of people who meditate to me i just i sit down and i was like fuck i hate that yeah for me meditating is like staring at a flower but well hey i mean gardening i think um when you really get into it When you really get into anything, even like making music or something. And for a while, your sense of self goes away. Your self-consciousness goes away and you're just involved in this activity entirely.

And time flies by and, you know, in psychology they call that flow. But there's meditative elements there where you lose the sense of constantly talking to yourself in your head. And you kind of fall into the project you're doing, whether it's the nuances of gardening or putting together a song and thinking of lyrics. You feel happy when you're doing those things because you're not neurotically talking to yourself in your head all the time. And so there's something there that is still meditative, you know. That's awesome. Yeah, I was like trying to think, like, who would I say for that? Like, no one really pops in my head.

Maybe it's just because I haven't thought about that subject or all I've been just entrenched in so much radical shit over the years. Yeah. I mean, I guess I would just say permaculture. But that, you know, just these, the concepts in permaculture, but even that's political. Yeah, yeah. You know, like just harnessing natural flows and,

thinking about how that applies to humanity and society. Cycle of life, all that stuff. It's still political, though. I totally agree. It's not pie in the sky and fun theory, like thinking about free will. So one thing I wanted to talk about with you as well is, you know, I'm from Omaha, you're from Denver. We're both activists. We're both organizers. Some people don't like the word activist, I understand, revolutionaries, organizers, et cetera.

So what are your... I prefer Twitter Revolutionary. Yeah, okay, Twitter Revolutionary. So has your organizing stuff just been in Denver your whole life? Yeah. Okay. And so what do you think would be some of the differences there between the two? What about Denver do you think would set it apart from a place like Omaha, which is a much smaller city?

I don't know. I mean, it's Denver. Denver is a unique animal at this point. You know, Denver for a while had a lot of anarchist infrastructure in like a pretty big anarchist scene. And like, you know, when shit's hitting the fan, there's always going to be a strong black block that comes out and does what it's going to do and pushes things in its direction. But one thing I would say is that that is real, like every, like I'm getting a notification every two weeks, every week of a comrade leaving because Denver doesn't have rent control. And once weed was legalized here, the rents, like I have friends who literally had their rent go up a thousand bucks in one month with no notice because there's no. nothing.

This is a right to do whatever the fuck state. That's because people move here because of that. Everybody moved here for weed plus the oil and gas shit. Millennials already, this was already the number one city

for millennials. And so all those things combined created the perfect storm and made it so like why would anyone pay L.A. rent to live in a place where a normal person can't make more than

$14 bucks an hour? if they're lucky. The economy here has not kept up with the, so like because of that it's actually become a very difficult place to organize. It's very white here. That poses challenges.

And so like identity politics get very confusing in a place like this where there's like so many white people and then you have like black glass matter popping up and then you have groups like surge and like navigating

standing up for racial justice like navigating that terrain in like the hierarchy of like whose pain is valid this month has made it makes it a pretty challenging place to organize

liberalism is a huge problem here but I mean it's easy to take for granted like you know like at the drop of a hat like we could be at the district we could have 30 30

people doing a house demo at anybody's house that we want, you know. So there's a big pool of people you can draw from at a given moment to mobilize to address an issue. Yeah. That's good. But that pool is shrinking. And so, like, so it's a matter of, like, finding who the new people are. And so right now, it's just in, like, this huge flux right now where I'm kind of, like,

taking a step back because it's become very challenging right now. I think Trump has been, like, a nuclear bomb. And I think people thought, oh, we're going to have a, we're going to have fucking an American spring here. But really, it was like, no, like that lasted like a week. And then everybody was like, oh, wait, it's the same. We're just going to go home and we're going to retreat to Twitter. What's Omaha like? Yeah, so Omaha is smaller.

And this is the only place I've ever organized in because I was born and raised there, except for my small trip to Montana, six months I live there. But it's smaller. And so I was talking to the member from his family. going down recently on my podcast, and I was trying to talk about Omaha, and he kind of enlightened me by saying, because I was saying in Omaha, all different sectarian tendencies work together. So I'm in organizations that I helped co-found, because there was like no real strong leftist, like uncompromising leftist shit. And then me and some other comrades within

the last year really worked to get that off the ground there. But we're working with anarchists, we work with Maoists, we work with Leninists. All the leftists, no matter what stripe, come to these handful of small organizations we're the only ones doing shit. And he was saying in bigger cities, you can be so secluded in your tendency that you never have to interact with a Maoist. You can just go to your anarchist groups.

And if you're a Leninist, you can go to PSL and I operate just with them and I have to fuck with anarchists. And so that's different because in a smaller city we have less people, obviously. So this is like, if you're a leftist, come to this organization, let's get to work. And that's actually kind of beautiful. Right.

Because you're forced to have, not only to base, like on the internet as one thing, You're like, fuck you, Tanky, fuck you, Ann or Kitty, you know, it's all that bullshit. But in real life, it's like, you're comrades. You're going out feeding the people at the local park. You're protesting against his Trump rally, whatever may be. And so when you do have disagreements, it's comradly and friendly. And maybe that shaped me.

You know, I'm kind of getting a reputation for being a pan-leftist or, you know, a non-sectarian. And maybe that comes out of that organizing feature of Omaha. You know, it's just a smaller city. But the cops are corrupt as fuck there. the underlying politic is very reactionary it's very center right conservative

all the media outlets air to the right and so to be a radical leftist in that context is probably more challenging than it would be in a Chicago or Denver or an L.A. or you know

a Portland or whatever so pros and cons yeah we had a thing like after the Trump after Trump got elected for I think the first six to nine months we were having these autonomous assemblies

where it wasn't like a decision making body it wasn't an organization and it was just a place for new people to plug in and, you know, of different, you know, it was like the space was, I don't want, what's curated by anarchists. And so it was like everything is horizontal here. Like no one's going to tell someone they can't do something, you know.

And so that was like a cool way to kind of get new people working with longer time organizers and like create like, you know, create actions. Like we did our disrupt. j20 out of that and like that was one of the biggest things that happened in denver in a while and like that's two in oh yeah i read about that actually sounded cool uh and uh and so in like you know it's the same thing like in denver yeah you have a lot of anarchists but to be honest like a lot of anarchists in this city for whatever reason um are don't want to be participating in anything

public, you know? And because of security culture or because they don't want to deal with liberals and like they don't feel like their job is to like educate. And because it requires a lot of patience. Like when you have these open situations where like new people are coming in, you know, it's like you have to have a lot of patience. You have to really like understand where someone's coming from and then be like, can I work with this person or not? Does this person have hope or not? Is this person a cop? Like what's going on here? And, like, you know, it's challenging, you know. And, you know, there's so much potential here,

but it's also, like, right now it's just really difficult in Denver. But Denver's had just some awesome. Like, our Denver Anarchist Black Cross is probably one of the flagship Black Cross chapters. And, like, you know, they've been, like, vital, vital, vital infrastructure. As long as I've been here, like, I feel like if people don't know what to do in their city, start a fucking anarchist black cross just start doing political letter writings show some movies

you know I think it's just anything anything that people can plug into you know we need to have an outward face for our movements in a way to incorporate new people I mean I don't I don't work with Maoists I don't work with I do have we do I do

collaborate a lot with my homie in the ISO I mean they you know I don't like I'm not a member but uh you know And I'm always like, fuck the ISO, but like, you're cool. You're cool. And, like, so, like, so we'll, we'll throw actions together.

And guess what? Like, you know, there is a little block of socialists now, you know, after Bernie. Like, Bernie, the Bernie bros are growing up, you know. And I never even imagined that, that, like, you know, that the Bernie Sanders moment would actually lead to, like, people becoming radicalized. And I was calling bullshit on that for a long time, but now I'm starting to see it a little bit. And it's, you know, I mean, as long as we're not talking about the DSA, as long as people are like past that and like,

to the point where they want to like, basically if you're down to put your body on the line and you're down, I don't care if you're a liberal. I don't care what your politics are. If you're going to, if you're going to, if we're going to link arms and face riot cops together, your comrade you have to be yeah and I you know for all the criticism of the DSA

I mean obviously we're well to the left of them but they do play a good role and that they are that bridge for a lot of people from liberalism over to the left I myself went through that bridge as I was leaving liberalism DSA was clearly the most attractive to me because I understood it more

it was more in line with my already existing values and so it made sense for me to jump on that so DSA plays a good role in that we don't have to be in DSA necessarily but that you could you could help people come left using them. And because they allow local chapters to have autonomy more or less, like our local DSA chapter in Omaha's heavily Marxist influence because Marxists got in there when it got started up and they kind of pushed it their way. So that local chapter is probably

way more leftist than a DSA chapter that's maybe been longer established and has, you know, kind of taken that more social democratic route. So those are always interesting things to think. Yeah, there's this Twitter account I interact with as like the Long Island libertarian social DSA caucus, and I'm like, what the fuck? Yeah. I'm like, what the fuck is going on? Like, God, Trump. Yeah.

He just ruined this country. Well, we're at 50 minutes now. I know you like to, you know, keep your shit short. So we could do the parenting question as a wrap up. Yeah. So do you want to ask it? How do you approach parenting as a radical leftist? Two interviews interviewing each other.

A little transparency, we do have a piece of paper and we wrote down who was asking what. A little behind the scenes for a little. Yeah, so being a leftist parent is very interesting. So we were talking a little earlier about how society conditions liberalism into you. How liberalism, broadly speaking, which includes conservative and which includes libertarianism, that is the main set of values that people are given growing up. Our history books are very whitewashy and they embed you with patriotic. and all that shit. So it's hard to wire that out. So then as a parent you're thinking

they're going to be getting these messages. I don't want to like just indoctrinate my kids like some religious cult either. Like we believe this and we only do this, you know? So what I've aired on the side of with my eight-year-old daughter who's very smart and receptive to these ideas is having discussion. So she'll come back after learning about MLK. She'd like, we learned about Martin Luther King today, right? And I know goddamn well. They're going to whitewash MLK. They're going to make him into a safe figure of Gandhi-esque piece purely. will blunt the edges of like his anti-capitalism or you know what got him killed is the movement

of poor people he did at the very end of his life where he tried to get black white brown poor people from all over the country to march on washington right that was like okay enough is enough you know and he got fucking killed over that shit um among other things so using these jumping off points um and then taking my daughter to to rallies it's been great for her um the women's march in omaha was the biggest protest in omaha ever in omaha history and that was true for a lot of these are in. It was the biggest march in American history. My daughter was in it and she was leading chance.

Who runs the world? Girls were who? You know? And she fucking loved it. And she came home and she was beaming and she got the sense of solidarity. She got what it means to be in a community and to fight for something that matters, you know? And so she, that's kind of how I introduce those ideas. You know, never

like, this is what we believe, here's DOS Capital read it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's always meeting them where they are. But then also like always infusing empathy in. always trying to give the other person's point of view. You know, an immigrant student comes in and doesn't speak English very well. She comes home and I say, you know, don't let anybody, because somebody said something bad about her accent.

Like, you know, you have a responsibility to stand up to that person and to defend that child, you know, because imagine what it would be like if you went to a school and you didn't know the language and you were struggling. And that hits her hard, you know. That's awesome. Yeah. And your kid, your son is very small still, so you have a long way to go before you get to those conversations.

What are your thoughts as a new parent? I just read that book Rad Dads from P.M. Press. Heard of it, never read it. If I had a copy, I'd give it to you. I gave it to my neighbor. But, you know, just the things I'm thinking about are, like, I actually really like what you're saying, because, like, I want to be very, I don't,

I don't want my kid to grow up to be a fucking suicide bummer. You know, like, that's, like, my biggest, I'm not concerned about my kid. And I also don't want my kid to, like, resist and, like, grow up to be a fucking cop or something. And so it's, like, finding that middle ground We're like, you know, where the kid has the choice to make their own path and their own decisions. And like, for me, it's just important to be present and just have that bond and relationship.

That's why I'm not touring. I'm just, I'm home. And that's really the biggest thing you can do. When you see kids revolt against their parents, it's usually because their interpersonal relationship with that parent has been negative. My dad was a dick and he was a conservative. So now I'm going to go the other way or vice versa or whatever may be. So if you create a really good bond with your kid, open communication, 100% support and love, always there for you. I tell my daughter, you can tell me anything.

No matter how uncomfortable it is, no matter how much trouble you think you are, and I'm never going to yell at you or, you know, spank you or anything crazy like that. Or just talk, you know? And so I open up those lines of communication very early. And that hopefully I want her to have a very positive relationship with me. When she grows up, I love my fucking dad. He was a great dad. He always cared for me. He was always there for me.

And so why would I rebel against his politics? I like him as a man. I like his character. I like his values. And so moral values are at the bottom of our politics, right? At the end of the day, when you push politics far enough, we just get down to moral values, what we think is right and wrong. Right.

So having a good relationship with your kid and fostering that is probably one of the most important things you can do. You're a good dad, Brad. Thank you. You're a good dad. I try. You will be too. I mean, I can already tell how you think about you're reading books on parenting. And I can tell when you talk about it on your podcast, something you care deeply about

and are thinking very much about. Yeah, I am. God. This next generation is going to have to do a lot of. lot of work i know well you know uh our uh like because the gender the men before were assholes you know like they and you know that gets into like toxic masculinity and like patriarchy and like the the male worker yep and like you know we have to rethink all that shit absolutely um well that's an hour hell yeah this is awesome yeah it was really fun to meet you man it's so cool it's

surreal to be in the same room and having a discussion with you after all these years but I fucking love it, and I really appreciate what you're doing on your podcast, and let's keep working together and amplifying each other. Absolutely, brother. Maybe I'll come see you in Omaha someday. Hey, you have a place there anytime. and I know how to use it while I sit in the plot all I want is a new roof they want jobs I want time they won't guard I won't prove I want my wife to be home not at work let's chill let's read but get done because we take it to the streets probably not my city's so divided they want a whitewash martin and miss grow to signer come on let's be real let's be air not be gold let's bend not be broken let's build

not be sold let's take it to their homes where they sell it so loud they want to buy it Kick everybody out Charge for the pipes that they didn't even build They charge for the streets where police waiting told Who is the city for? We shop some real tours Cardinals to the moon Water gas up the prairie door

The fate of every city is a fly The fate of every city is a fly When I first move here cheap and have meth hats now but just tech bros and paleo coffee shops progress escapes us can't help but hate us thinking i'm white trash is the bike now the Prius all of these weed stores i own my rich white boys well black folks who sold weed sitting in jail cells it's a pleasant but that's the way they want and not us let's be honest they turn feel into commas then they turn the animas river into Hades fuck around and poison every race from here to phoenix speaking

settle is I got 20 on a vegan pizza you'll make me nostalgic for 90-era hips and I don't want to make a living I'm here to keep a promise fine to get set leave it better than you found it that's a tall order no world order only oil oligarchs and hot fructose corn syrup soda they burn the food stamps downtown there's a boot camp if you want a class war I'll be an insurgent all life in the fast lane into us is abstract you're just looking bleak better invest in the gas mask. The fate of every city is a flood. The fate of every city is a flood. It's going down and you're invited for what they're selling. We ain't buying. There is no running. There is no hiding.

There's only fighting or dying. It's going down and you're invited for what they're selling. For what they sell it. We ain't buying. There is no running. There is no hiding. There's only fighting or dying. It's going down. And you're invited. For what they're selling. We ain't buying. There is no running. There is no hiding. There's only fighting or dying. You know,