Rev Left Radio - On Physical Education: Advice and Inspiration

Episode Date: March 20, 2023

Esperanza Fonseca joins Breht to discuss the scientifically proven benefits of regular physical activity, the relationship of mental health to physical health, basic and intermediate advice regarding the most effective ways to exercise for overall health and fitness, holistic approaches to a genuinely healthy life above and beyond physical exercise, criticisms of the many failings and grotesqueries of popular "fitness culture" on and offline, things to beware of when trying to build a healthy exercise habit into your life, solid recommendations for further investigation, and more! In-Show Recommendations: - Jeff Nippard: https://linktr.ee/jeffnippard - Zao Strength: https://www.youtube.com/@ZaoStrength - FullMetalLifter: https://www.instagram.com/fullmetallifter/ - Dr. Idz: https://www.instagram.com/dr_idz/ - Andy Galpin: https://www.andygalpin.com/   Outro music: "Way of Life" by Dead Prez Support Rev Left Radio: https://www.patreon.com/RevLeftRadio

Hello everybody and welcome back to Rev Left Radio. On today's episode, I have my good friend and comrade Esperanza Fonseca on the show to talk about health and fitness from a radical left-wing perspective. We talk about advice for people who want to get into fitness. We talk about the pitfalls of lots of health and fitness subcultures online, the abelism, the machismo, the sub-chizmo, the substance. supplement salesmen, all the negatives that can come with it, and we try to offer a non-toxic left-wing perspective on health and fitness, trying to act as an educational and hopefully inspirational resource for people who want to better themselves in this way, in the realm of

health and of fitness. We also, you know, discuss some caveats a few questions in. You know, the last thing that we would ever want to do is present this stuff in a way that makes anybody feel bad about themselves, that makes anybody who is not able body feel less then, and we go to great lengths throughout this episode to address those caveats and address those people who struggle with certain things and try to purge those toxic elements that you often find in health and fitness circles from the discussion and focus on ways that are inclusive and open to everybody, which I think is really incredibly important. And I couldn't

have asked for a better guest to come on and have this conversation. with. So without further ado, here is my conversation with Esperanza on health and fitness from a left-wing perspective. Enjoy. Hey, Brett. My name is Esperanza Fonseca. I'm a labor organizer, currently actually in a personal training certification program, and also come from, you know, the women's and proletarian feminist movement. Beautiful. Yeah, it's an honor and a pleasure to have you back on. I know you and I are, our friends on Instagram, and I keep my Instagram very small and private. So I really enjoy following your content in general, and some of that content is your, you know, working out and exercising, which is inspirational and sort of helped add a layer

of inspiration to my, you know, getting back into it full steam. And you've also, as I said before we started recording, have helped me with some form issues I had with my squat. So I was having some knee pains with my squatting and doing goblet squats because I work out by myself in a basement. I don't have a squat rack. So I was trying to do other forms of the squat, but it was really putting a lot of pressure on my knees. And you gave me great advice about the back squat that has completely eliminated my knee pain. And just in general, I've wanted to do an episode kind of tackling these basic issues of exercise and fitness for the left, talking

about some of the ways in which this culture, these subcultures of fitness and health can be very toxic and trying to fight against that while also promoting health and fitness on the left and I thought you'd be a great guest to come on and talk with me and my audience about precisely that and so I think we're going to have an interesting conversation and I would also say you know if you are already deeply established in in the world of health and fitness you have your own exercise routine you already you know do all this high level stuff you know maybe this is too introductory for you I really want to aim this conversation at people on the fence or who need a little extra push or motivation or maybe want to get into getting more fit and

healthy, but don't know where to start and really find conflicting stuff online. And so I was hoping to really kind of target this conversation at those sorts of people in hopes that maybe a few will find this episode useful. So perhaps the best way to start Esperanza is to just ask how and why did you personally get into fitness? Yeah. So for me, I have always had some sort of interest in fitness, but it really started to appear more in my teen years. And the reason why was because, you know, my life around that time was so unstable that fitness really gave me an outlet to feel good. You know, I remember just the feeling, for example, I used to run and just all of those endorphins and those good feelings really helped counteract some of the stuff that I was

going through. But it wasn't until recent years that I really began to get serious about fitness and specifically, you know, around strength training. I think more recently, you know, as people know, coming from the women's movement, from the feminist movement, you know, I myself am a survivor and I work with many survivors of, you know, sexual and patriarchal violence. And in a world where, you know, used to being objectified, where we're made to feel weak and powerless. Fitness and strength training in particular can be a really strong antidote to that and a way for us to find healing, to reconnect with our bodies, to feel strong, and to reject that idea that, you know, we have to look a certain way to be, you know, an object for

male consumption and instead, you know, be able to build our bodies in a way that makes us feel good and feel strong. And so that led me to training in the past few years and now currently pursuing a master trainer certification with the ISFA. Wow. Yeah, that's awesome. And I think that resonates with a lot of people. I have similar, you know, sort of reasons of getting into fitness. I think we'll talk about that actually in this next question. So let's just go ahead and move into that because the benefits are often the reason why people start doing it and keep doing it. For a very long time, you know, I grew up playing sports and everything, but then I kind of gave up on it in late high school. And through my 20s, I was focused on other things.

And then as I got into my 30s, I started realizing that there's this process of aging and deterioration that happens. And I wanted to kind of fight against it. I wanted to not be tired all the time. But mostly it was out of a – this leads well into this next question. out of certain forms of mental health collapses, if you will, time and time again that taught me that physical exercise is one of the best sort of preventatives and ways to deal with a really tough mental and emotional sort of issues that were going on. And so I think we can use that as the jumping off point to this next question, which is the

benefits. So what benefits mental, emotional, and physical does consistent exercise offer? Yeah, so I know that you've spoken about this quite a bit, right, but in terms of mental health, you know, there is a lot of evidence that shows that, you know, regular training, regular, you know, physical fitness programs can, you know, reduce stress, provide you with more, you know, mental clarity, mental energy can improve, you know, several different mental health factors, reduce depression, you know, improve focus in terms of, you know, physical benefits, right? We know that exercise, regular exercise, prolongs life, you know, improve self-confidence. And there's also evidence that it boosts the brain's dopamine, noraphenephyrin, and serotonin, which, as I mentioned earlier, really helps with focus and attention and concentration and motivation and all of those things that we need just to function well in society, but also to do the very demanding and hard work that we do as

organizers and as activists. And then also, as you mentioned as well, you know, all of us are aging. And there is this trend that as we age, we lose muscle mass. And that makes us far more susceptible to injuries, to falls. And, you know, when we work out, when we make sure that that we are not losing muscle mass, but actually building it, we're also ensuring that later in life, we are going to have a higher quality of life. And so it's not just about the benefits we get right now, but also thinking, you know, 10, 20, 30, 40 years down the line. Yeah, absolutely. That's huge for me as well, wanting to stay physically active, physically engaged. The mental benefits are huge. In fact, I would say for me, personally, they were primary. The physical benefits

are wonderful being able to not be tired, to be able to move your body around in space with much more ease, the mental, like, yeah, endorphin rush that you get post-workout, where your mood is boosted. You feel, if you're doing exercise right often, instead of making you feel utterly exhausted, it can make you feel reinvigorated to tackle the rest of the day. I work out in the mornings, and I feel that it sets a certain standard for the rest of my day. I also think there's some intangibles as far as, um, you know, especially with strength training, but also with like long distance running or various forms of cardio. It builds, it can really build the capacity to increase your perseverance, um, your discipline, right? One of the things that I learned as I got

into, uh, working out was that it wasn't about motivation. It was about discipline, right? I didn't have to wake up every day and recommit to working out. I would just set time aside every week, three days a week to do this program. And no matter how I felt, you know, whether I was motivated or not, I had committed myself to doing the thing regardless. And of course, every time I do it, even if I don't feel like doing it, by the time I'm finished, I'm happy I did it. I feel way better than I did before. And it kind of builds a positive momentum. And then this is the emotional sort of calmness and level-headedness that I can often feel in the wake of working out. And as somebody who's struggled with anxiety for huge chunks of my adult life, the physical exertion that

comes with exercise has all but eradicated anxiety from my life. And that to me was one of the most startling and convincing sort of benefits that I got out of it to keep me going. And then it stops feeling like it's a chore or something I have to force myself to do. And I started feeling the shift within me where it became something I genuinely wanted to do and looked forward to doing. that was a huge positive shift for me as well. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, although training has not sort of resolved all issues for me, it has really made a huge improvement. And that's something that I've noticed with myself and also, you know, others that I train with.

Definitely. Why is it important for those of us on the political left to take health and fitness seriously? And how can it benefit us not only as individuals, but as members, of collective organization and struggle. Yeah, so I'm also really curious about hearing what your thoughts are on this. But for me, you know, three main things come to mind. The first is building discipline and building the ability to push through hardship and struggle.

You know, when you are training me, for example, you know, in strength training when you're at the bottom of a squat or a bench press or. trying to get in those last few reps and your mind constructs all of these premature barriers and you really have to push yourself through. And I think that that sort of training builds discipline and builds perseverance that can be applied to other areas of our life. In a similar way that if you practice meditation every day, you will be able to take that a piece that you have cultivated and take that mental discipline and clarity and apply it to

other areas of your life outside of meditation as well. I also think consistency in learning how to build habits. That's something that I know I struggle with. I know many of us do. It's just the way that our society is structured. But physical fitness and training requires us to fight through that and learn how to build a habit and how to be consistent with the things that we want to do, even though it's very difficult to do so. You know, and I'm also reminded of what Mao said on this, which is that, you know, physical education not only harmonizes the emotions, but also strengthens the will. And he also connects it to the idea of military heroism, right?

and he says that such objects of military heroism as courage, dauntlessness, audacity, and perseverance are all matters of will. And, you know, on the left, we are building a militant movement to overthrow capitalism and transition to socialism, right? Overthrow the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie and implement a dictatorship of the people, the proletariat. And so therefore, right, building our will, strengthening our will is extremely important. And I also think that training as a cadre, training as an organization, also really

strengthens the bonds between people. And this is something that I actually experienced a few years ago where, you know, we would study together, we would organize together, we would, you know, do things together, but we would also train together. And that training really helped us coalesce into a strong unit. The second thing is that I think that movement and fitness is a right that belongs to people, but is often taken from us. You know, the way that public space has been destroyed, the way that our work hours and our work days have increased, you know, we, under wage slavery, it's very difficult to be able to experience the joys of movement and the joys of fitness.

And I personally do not want to let this, you know, hellish capitalist system take that from me. And so I'm going to fight to maintain that. And then the third thing is just the issue of self-defense, right? We know that, you know, fascism is on the rise right now, that right-wing extremist people are getting increasingly violent against us. And especially coming from a women's organization, you know, self-defense is important. And I think that getting strong and getting fit so that we could defend ourselves

and our comrades is something that we should not discount. Yeah, amen. And in fact, you literally touched on everything that I had lined out for my responses to this question. So I couldn't agree more. And I actually did read the Mao's writing on physical education last night in preparation for this episode and found a lot of that to be incredibly interesting and dovetail with a lot of the stuff that you and I want to say in this episode. So if anybody out there is interested, you can definitely go check that out for free online. But yeah, there's also the fascist, right, especially in Europe, but more and more in the U.S., where they're always,

organizing some version of them, at least, some formations on the fascist right, organizing in and around sporting events, MMA gyms, boxing gyms, weightlifting, working out, et cetera. And, you know, these people are obviously preparing themselves for various forms of struggle that could arise in the coming future. And I think when we see that, we have to take that seriously on our side as well. And I do think that one of the ways we can promote left-wing proletarian culture our own culture against the dominant culture is to have areas of unity and working together that aren't always and first and foremost ostensibly political right i mean not um acutely political they can be things like sports clubs like gyms like working out

together um and these are things that we've also implemented in our local organizing at various times in the last several years as well where we all go out and we go on a long long hike, for example, with backpacks together. And we, you know, there's different levels of fitness. And we're all only as good as the slowest person in our team. And we're always there to stay together. Nobody gets ahead. No individual shines. We're all there to encourage each other. And that can be a deeply connecting process that helps any actual organization function even more smoothly and more as a unified whole. But I think the answers you gave were spot on. And so far as I would add one more on top of that that pile that you set out for us is you know it's a hedge against

burnout i think a lot of times organizing can be brutal it can it can really burn people out it can become exhausting and i think to become more physically and mentally and emotionally robust through fitness um can help us deal with as you were saying the struggles that are implicit um in organizing at any level at all um and can actually hedge against um the worst forms at least of of burnout which are which are often a mix of mental, emotional, and physical exhaustion. So for all those reasons and more, I think it's important for us to take it seriously. Now, I do want to move forward, and this is, I think, a really important question and a really important issue, and I want to set some time aside to really go deep into it, because we were

thinking of even doing a caveat up front about this stuff, but felt it folded well into this next question. So I'll ask you this question, and then we can go back and forth a little bit on it. What elements of fitness culture and gym culture do you think are negative, reactionary, or unwelcoming to new people and maybe how we can avoid those? Yeah. So I guess there's sort of four points that I want to bring up. The first is that I'll just talk a little bit about ablism and sometimes the very ignorant mentality that the fitness industry and fitness influencers take towards people. and reasons why they may or may not be able to work out or train or other things. So, you know, something that one of the people that I'm connected with on Instagram

reminded me of is that, you know, yes, physical fitness and training helps with all of these problems that we're experiencing. But at the same time, sometimes those problems become primary and maybe they need to be resolved first before somebody can start training. And so it's not always this sort of blanket solution of just, you know, train and everything will get better. You know, sometimes you need to make an honest assessment and understand, you know, where to start. And an example of that is, you know, a few years ago when we were really in the start of the pandemic, my anxiety was so bad that I was not even able to leave my home.

And so just telling me, you know, oh, start strength training, go running. like that wouldn't have worked for me at the moment. And I really had to start small and figure out how to resolve the most pressing issue, which was the debilitating social and general anxiety. And from there, be able to slowly introduce movement into my lifestyle, which, you know, happened very slowly and incrementally. You know, and so I think that's, that's one of the things that I wanted to touch on with that, right? And then I also think the fact that

like, you know, so much of the fitness industry only looks at sort of normative bodies and how those bodies can move and can work out and train. And I think we really need to broaden our view and bring in different kinds of people and look at what movement and training can look like for them because I do believe that most everybody can find some form of movement, whether it's vigorous or not, that they enjoy and that benefits their health. Now, another thing I wanted to bring up is the right-wing libertarianism that is so present in gym culture, in fitness culture. You know, you go to gyms and so many of them have the, you know, don't tread on me flag. And I think that this is just how fitness culture is used as an indoctrination tool to right-wing ideology.

You know, if you start looking at gym videos on Instagram, it won't be long before you find it connected to right-wing ideology, to Trump, to, you know, misogyny, et cetera. And you don't see that with left-wing ideas. You see that with right-wing ideas. That's, you know, in my opinion, one of the reasons why it's so important for us as well to take back this space because there's so many young people that are looking to improve themselves through fitness and they start looking for fitness and they end up indoctrinated into right-wing ideology and fascistic ideology. Then there's the issue of hyper-individualism, right? fitness culture is promoted as this, you know,

individual ascension to success, right? And this, especially this idea of, like, isolation. You know, I think of, you know, these gym influencer videos where, you know, the men just sort of put on their hoodies and go to the gym. And it, like, romanticizes this isolated life and almost, like, justifies the isolation we experience under capitalism. And I think that's a problem, right? We should be promoting community, strong bonds between community and not just this idea of like the rogue, lone, lone, lone, you know, isolated individual, especially not romanticizing it.

And then fitness is also promoted as a cure to the problems of capitalism and often promoted as a way to further numb us and disconnect us from political struggle. And I think that, you know, it's our job to sort of fight against. that and connect fitness to political struggle. And then the last thing is just the issue of patriarchy and misogyny. So the first is that, especially for women, right, there's this extreme focus on aesthetics and it's for men too. And, you know, this isn't always a bad thing. It's okay to care about how you look, right?

You shouldn't feel guilty about that. It's not anti-feminist or anti-Marxist or whatever for you to. want to feel good about how you look, that's okay. But I think that, you know, when it becomes obsessive or when it, you know, becomes you trying to reach this patriarchal standard of beauty, whether, you know, how a man should look or how a woman should look, and you're always chasing after that, that's where it becomes really unhealthy, right? Yeah. And also in terms of the focus on aesthetics, you know, the body image promoted by so many of these fitness influencers and, you know, and the fitness industry is not realistic and it's actually unhealthy.

So, you know, a lot of people post these photos where it's either during their competition or, you know, during photo shoots where they spend months getting to a certain level of leanness, but that just is not maintainable throughout the entire year. And that's a false image in the same way that somebody editing their photos is a false image. And then lastly, just this whole idea of like the villain arc, like if you, watch gym videos, you see that, you know, a lot of these men promote this idea of, like, some woman harmed them and now they're going to the gym as the start of their villain arc. And it's often connected to Andrew Tate fans, to this, like, misogynistic culture that, you know,

advocates to just use women, to treat them poorly. And that's something I've noticed that I think really needs to be combated. Yeah, I love those answers. Absolutely spot on. The ableism stuff is core. There's so much stuff in the fitness, health culture that just either completely ignores them or makes them feel as if, you know, whatever situation you're dealing with that, you know, it's like it's just promoted to able-bodied people intrinsically. And then the, you know, people with disabilities of various sorts are completely just wiped out or made to feel like this is not a place for them. That's a problem. The machismo and the manosphere, like, you're talking about deeply connected to this stuff. We have to reject that. And we have to put forward left-wing alternatives to precisely that in the realm of health and fitness, as you were saying. And then, yes, the unhealthy body image issues or the obsessing over pure aesthetics when, you know, I think first and foremost, it should be about being a healthier person or all over, you know, all around, a mentally, emotionally, and physically healthier person. That should be the primary

focus and then any aesthetic gains that you get are, you know, like you said, laudable, beautiful. You can be happy about them, but they don't need to be the main focal point of why you're doing this stuff because I think that can create many other issues down the line. But one more thing I would like to add on top of everything you said is because we live in capitalism, so many of these health and fitness subcultures are dominated by the idea that you have to buy stuff to start working out. You have to buy all the supplements. You have to buy all the equipment.

Everybody's trying to sell you something. You need pre-workout. You need post-workout. You need to do this and that. You need to buy this. You need to get this gym membership. And I really want to stress the point that you can engage in really effective exercise and not spend a dime.

Some people, because of the sort of exercise they want to engage with, might have to, right? You might want to wait train, so therefore you have to buy a gym membership or buy a bench or something like that. But for the most part, especially when people are getting started off, you can really just completely ignore the idea that you need to put down money to start your exercise journey and find various ways of engaging in exercise that don't cost you anything at all. But again, once you start going on to Instagram or getting into these forums,

the amount of commodities that are shoved in your face and you are made to feel as if you have to buy this stuff or else your exercises for nothing, I think you should be absolutely suspicious of that and reject that straight up. Do you agree with that? Oh, I agree 100%. I mean, the supplement industry is just so full of BS. I mean, first of all, most of these supplements, there is no real evidence behind them, and supplement companies will take unrelated studies or studies that just are not conclusive

and, you know, slap them on their marketing campaigns, right, and use them to sell it to people. Most supplements are just completely unnecessary, unneeded, just a waste of your money. And, you know, like Brett said, the fitness industry is, well, it's an industry, right? They're trying to sell you something. And so oftentimes you'll hear people saying, you know, don't do this, don't eat that. And it's usually always a way to sell you what they want you to telling you to do. So please definitely be careful of me on things that you just really don't need. Yeah. And I've personally fallen prey to that as well. A few years ago, I wanted to get into running. And then I don't know why, but I had convinced myself that in order to do this, I need to go

out and I need to buy new shoes and I need to buy a specific outfit for running that I never use and I immediately gave up on the entire endeavor, but I spent a couple hundred dollars buying things that I absolutely did not need. And when I re-committed to exercise and getting fit, I told myself straight up, you know, you don't have to buy anything. Just get out there, move your body, you know, and see where it takes you. But yes, I think that's a huge thing. And it's always going to be promoted, always going to be shoved in your face. And so you should be aware of that, I think, as well. The next question I have for you, and maybe we've already touched on this, so you can be brief with this.

you want to, but what are healthy reasons to get into working out and what are some less than healthy reasons that people use to get into it? Yeah, so I think we touched on this a little bit in the prior questions, but I first want to point out that sometimes unhealthy reasons can become healthy reasons. So, you know, at first, I started lifting weights because I was really unhappy with my body. You know, I felt that I didn't look the way I should look, um, especially being trans, you know, I just felt a lot of pressure to look a certain way. And slowly over time, how I looked, and particularly how well I blended into the idea of what a woman should look like became less and less important until, to be honest, I really don't care much about it. And what became more important was this endeavor to build strength, to push myself past my limit and to see what I could really achieve through.

this. And that's what became exciting. And that's when I really became, you know, open to this world of fitness and what it could really offer beyond reasons that are imbued with self-hatred and insecurity that the fitness industry and the beauty industry and the cosmetic surgery industry love to profit off of. I think that, as you mentioned, right, too much focus on aesthetics or starting out because of reasons of self-hatred are often pretty unhealthy. But I think that regardless of what reason you want to start moving or you want to begin your fitness journey, figure out where you're at and take an honest assessment of that and see how you can move from perhaps more unhealthy reasons to more healthy reasons.

You know, wanting to improve yourself, wanting to see, you know, how far. you could really go, wanting to get strong and healthy so that you can be in this struggle, be in this movement for as long as you can. I think those are all great reasons. And oh, one other thing too is, you know, the older I get, the more I think about our youth. And I also want to encourage and promote healthy behaviors among them because they're going to inherit a world that is going to be much more hostile than our world because of climate change among other things. And And I just want to make sure that, you know, they have us as healthy role models that help promote healthy habits among them so that they're equipped with everything they can

to both continue the struggle and live the most fulfilling lives that they can. Yeah, really well said, and I love that last point as well. And I start to feel that as well as I get older, starting to understand myself as feeling a sort of a role modelish role for young comrades coming up. And I recently got invited to Arizona State University to give a speech. And it was sort of the moment where I really realized, like, I'm talking to like 19, 20-year-old, you know, students who started listening to Rev Left when they were like 14, 15. And that's an incredible responsibility because you're no longer, as I, when I started, I had this felt sense. I'm talking to my peers.

And then as I age, I start to realize I'm in my mid-30s now. I'm talking to the next generation coming up in a lot of these instances. is, and that imbues in me a real sense of responsibility, and I think highlights exactly what you're saying that older comrades have to take the stuff that we've learned the hard way and try to pass down that wisdom and that lived experience and the knowledge that we get from that to the younger comrades coming up to try to put them in a better position to succeed and to carry on the fight. And I think that's incredibly important. So now that we have a basic overview of why we get into it,

what the benefits are, what we should reject in the fitness and health subcultures and the whole world surrounding that stuff, why it's important for the left to take this stuff seriously. Let's get into some practical advice. So for the person that is sitting on the fence that wants to maybe start but doesn't know where or maybe it has a lot of conflicting information they're finding online, what advice would you give to people who may just be trying to get more fit and aren't sure where to start. Yeah. So for me, I always think that it's important to start with an assessment of your current level of activity. You know, how sedentary are you or how much do you move? For some people, maybe the place to start is just trying to walk more. You know,

walking is something that a lot of people don't realize is, you know, can be such a healthy and life-changing behavior once you start to do it more. You know, if you are someone who perhaps lives a very sedentary lifestyle, maybe one of the immediate things you can start doing is, you know, taking time every day to walk more, whether it's, you know, 30 minutes or an hour every day or just trying to implement more walking and more movement throughout your day whenever you're able to. Now, if, you know, you maybe have been moving a little bit, you know, you're not too sedentary and you really want to start an actual, you know, training program, I always recommend

just starting small and starting simple. You don't need to stress over finding the perfect program, you know, or finding, you know, the exact number of sets or reps or this or that that you need to do. You know, for me, coming from, you know, a background in strength training and bodybuilding, not necessarily running, I can speak to that and say that, you know, in general, you want to focus on what are called compound movements and those are things that move multiple joints so for example a squat a bench press a military press a deadlift a hip thrust a chin up those kinds of things that work multiple muscle groups at the same time you know and sort of isolation movements such as you know a bicep curl or a leg extension

Those can come later once you've built, you know, a stronger foundation. I think that in general you really should try to listen to your body. You know, your body will tell you when you're overtraining. There is a bad pain such as, you know, let's say you're doing squats and you feel a sharp pain in your knee. You know, that's a sign that, okay, you know, let's take a step back and reassess and see how we could do that again without pain. Or if you're deadlifting and you feel paining your back, that is a sign, you know, to step back and reassess. Whereas there is a sort of good sort of pain, you know,

a healthy level of soreness is okay. You know, that's not necessarily something bad. And I think, yeah, as time, you start slow and simple and you can build up from there. And there's also some resources maybe we could share that I think help people looking to construct a program. Yeah, and we'll get to resources in a little bit, a few more questions here, and then we'll lay out some resources. But I love what you said. I love listening to your body, you know, not overdoing it, getting into exercise based on where you are starting from and doing it in a reasonable way, not trying to jump in full steam ahead right away. Sometimes, you know,

if you're deconditioned, you need to sort of get back up to a basic level of conditioning, and then you can move into more rigorous forms of exercise. Getting outside and just walking is really a great start. In fact, that's how I started during COVID, just the restlessness of the isolation. I had no exercise program at that point, but I just said, like, you know, for 30 minutes a day, I'm just going to go outside and walk. And that started a positive cycle where then I started getting into running. I played basketball. Then I started liking exercise. And that's what I got into weight training after a few months of this more basic stuff of cardio and basketball and all of that. So that's important. The other thing I would say is find something you actually.

actually enjoy because I think the worst thing we can do, whether it's meditation, exercise or trying to build other healthy habits is to create it as a chore for ourselves, something that we dread, that we don't actually like doing, but we feel we have to force ourselves to do in order to get some results down the line, right? And there may be some truth in that. You are trying to build towards a certain, you know, accomplishment or whatever. But finding something you enjoy is, I think, more important than any specific program, because if you enjoy doing something, you're much more likely to stick to it. And that can be honestly as simple as hiking, as kayaking, as swimming. There are an almost infinite amount of ways you can get outside and

move your body that will be beneficial, that will bring in many of the benefits we talked about earlier. And if you can do it while you're having fun, it's the best way to do it. Getting into organized sports, for example, is something that I'm actually looking into starting a little pickup basketball league locally this summer with a friend with a few friends of mine and you know when you're when i'm playing sports i'm not thinking oh i'm doing this chore i'm doing this exercise i'm just having fun with my friends and i'm working my entire body and i'm getting my heart rate up and i'm out in the sun and that's what is important and treating your you're working out as an end in and of itself i think is part of that treating it as not a chore but a practice that you're

cultivating, you know, and that's where it comes into like focusing, if you choose weight training, focusing on your form and trying to get better every time you go into the gym at the technique itself and kind of think of it as something you're cultivating, not something you're forcing yourself to do. And then the last thing I would say is, you know, I think if somebody wants to get into exercise in order to lose weight, I think that's a valid reason to get into exercise. But I really think it can become a problem if that becomes your main point of focus and you obsess over the scale. Because body weight fluctuates wildly, getting into working out, it's not a linear downward, you know, smooth decline into, you know, losing weight. It's often very jagged with

ups and downs and everything in between. And if you, you know, hit your wagon completely to that number that appears on the scale, I think it can really be a discouraging and throw you off. And also, if you're doing strength training, you know, muscle, it's weight, right? Like if you're building muscle, you might not be losing weight, but you're building muscle and displacing fat. And so you're actually getting healthier, even though when you step on the scale, it might more or less look the same. And I think that's very helpful when people are getting into it, not to obsess over that, to find something they enjoy, and to treat it as a practice that you're cultivating in an end in and of itself, not merely a means to something else. And I think that could actually

create a habit that's healthy and that you look forward to and not a drudgery or a chore that you force yourself to do, which makes the quality of life go down if you're forcing yourself to do something you hate all the time. Do you think those are reasonable points, Esperanza? Yeah, I definitely agree with all of that. Cool. All right. So let's get to the next little piece of advice, which is, you know, how much on average, and this is an average, you know, everybody is difference, so keep that in mind. But how much on average should someone work out so as not to fall into the error of overtraining, which is a real problem that people find themselves in, nor the error of under training and just, you know, not getting any results at all? What would you say to that?

Yeah, so again, I think it really does depend on the individual. You know, for me, I train six days a week, but, you know, I have to be very careful of how much volume I'm doing each day. Otherwise, I could very easily begin over training and exposing myself both to injuries, but also to not making progress, right? Because, you know, recovery is when your muscle is built. Your muscle is not built in the gym or during training. It's built during recovery. And so with that said, I think that, you know, if you start off small and you slowly build up from there, you will realize how much, you know, volume your body could handle. You know, I think this is called MRV maximum recoverable volume and finding out what that limit is for you. And then, you know, designing your

program or your regimen around that, I think in general, at least one rest day is necessary for everyone um you know but two three rest days four like those are all fine right i think also really focusing on sleep and nutrition is also important because when you're training you really need to be able to get good nourishing sleep in order to recover from your training and also nutrition although i would say to be very careful because um nutrition is one of those areas where there is just much misinformation online. You have people promoting all of these fad diets. You have people saying that there's chemicals in food, as if all food isn't made of chemicals. And I just, I think that people really need to do their research and be really careful about falling into

misinformation that surrounds nutrition. But in general, right, we're just talking about, you know, eating more protein, enough protein for you to recover. as well as eating, like, good, healthy whole foods, like fruits and vegetables, you know, getting your antioxidants, you know, they say eat the rainbow because antioxidants are in the pigments of fruits and vegetables. And so eating a diversity of colors ensures you're getting, you know, a diversity of antioxidants, et cetera. And also water and hydration and all of that. Yeah, hydration is absolutely essential. And I totally agree. The nutritional science world can, is of fraught world. There is lots of different interpretations of different data. There is no one

single diet that is the correct diet, you know, and I would be very skeptical of any extreme diets at all, you know, like obviously we have the Peterson diet of just meat, but anybody that's, you know, trying to do an extreme diet, I would be skeptical of and just kind of fall back on, as Esperanza was saying, nutritious, varied, whole foods-based diet. And that should be the bulk of what you eat, you know stuff that nature naturally produces that does not need tons of processing is not full of tons of sugar and then if that's your basis you can also enjoy yourself as well you know we don't want to turn all any of this into self-flagellation and we don't want it to decrease our quality of life we want it to increase our quality of life and if that means being able to have beers with

your friends on the weekend or if that means eating cake at the wedding or whatever you know having a full Thanksgiving dinner and not worrying about it you have to make room for those things can't be overly rigid, overly dogmatic when it comes to exercise or nutrition, you have to be able to implement these things into your life in a way that boosts the quality of your life, not decreases it. That's essential. As far as how much somebody should work out, I've heard the three by five rule. This is for like an intermediate, I think, person or maybe somebody starting off depending on what exercises you're actually doing. This is more in the realm of weight training. But the three by five rule is something like three to five sets of three to five reps of

for three to five exercises done three to five times a week. At least for me, that's been kind of helpful. I'm not exactly subscribed to three to five at everything, but it's a nice little template that I've used to not overdo it and to have an exercise routine that invigorates me and gives me energy as opposed to utterly exhausts me. And, you know, Esperanza working out six days a week is awesome, but that is definitely something that I don't think I'm speaking out of turn

that you've worked up to. It's not something you jump into right away. And I think that's important to note. Yeah, absolutely. That protocol sounds pretty solid. And I will say that, you know, for me training six days a week, I'm not going as hard every day as I was when I was training three to four days a week. So, you know, again, it's all about that maximum recoverable volume. And whether you train one, two, three, or six days a week, figuring out, you know, how to spread that volume,

over the week to not over train. And I did want to say about, you know, figuring out training protocols, it really also depends on what kind of strength training you want to do. So, you know, in general, you have bodybuilding, powerlifting, and, you know, what we would call weightlifting or Olympic weightlifting. And I actually can, you know, would love to share resources towards the end for people who could help you and who are actually on the left in each of those three areas in terms of building a program, you know, and then just one other thing I wanted to say about nutrition

earlier is that something that's been really helpful for me is the idea of starting with addition and not subtraction. So when people, you know, try to start living a healthier lifestyle and training and thinking about their nutrition, a lot of times we start out trying to subtract things. Oh, don't eat this food. Don't eat that food. You know, eat less of this. But I think that a really great way to start is thinking about addition. You know, is there a way to add more fiber? Is there a way to add more fresh fruits and vegetables, more whole foods? And thinking about adding them into your diet at first instead of what can you cut or subtract. Yeah. That's a great point.

Yeah, absolutely. All right, well, let's each give a summary of our training program, just so people can get an idea of how we put these ideas into practice and what works for us. And I would say, you know, I've been doing this consistently for about six, seven, maybe eight months, if you count the basketball I was doing before, I started a weight training. And this is the point that I've gotten to.

Esperanza is more advanced, more knowledgeable. And so our programs are going to be different, but I think kind of giving a little inside look into what we do might be helpful in some way to some people and both of us are engaged primarily in weight training so if your exercise of choice is going to be something that's very different like you know i just like hiking or like swimming that's fine too but hopefully this can still be useful so Esperanza you just want to give a basic summary of what you do exercise wise throughout the week yeah so first i'll say that um you know the best split that i've ever done

It is called a push pull, and then I had two leg days. So I was training four days a week. Push day, you know, literally think of taking your arms and pushing things away from you. So that included bench press and included, you know, military press where you basically take the barbell or the dumbbells and push it above your head, right, using primarily your shoulders. And then, you know, some accessory work around, you know, building your shoulders. and your triceps. And then pole day is thinking, you know, literally pulling things towards you. So that would involve chin-ups.

It would involve, you know, bent-over rows or dumbbell rows. It would involve, you know, cable rows and cable pull-downs, things like that, mostly, you know, focusing on the back. And then I would have two leg days. One is just focused on, you know, legs generally. so you know you focus on you know your quads your hamstrings and that can involve you know squats deadlifts and then isolation work like leg extensions leg curls and then the second leg day would be focused on the glutes and that is sometimes an underdeveloped or undertrained muscle

especially among men but they're actually really important to your overall health and strength and they're also, you know, the largest muscle group in the body. And so that day would really focus on hip thrust and then, you know, some isolation work from there. More recently, I've begun experimenting with a six-day training split where I take each of those six main lifts, which are bench press, military press, chin up, deadlift, hip thrust, and squat. And basically assign one day to each of those lifts. then have, you know, maybe two accessory works, you know, lifts after that. And so I'm, experimenting with that. I've seen it recommended by some trainers. And the verdict is still out

on that one. Yeah, very interesting. So mine's a little different and probably a little less advanced. And it's a Monday, Wednesday, Friday weight training routine that I work out for about, I would say, an hour and a half on those three days. And then I allow myself Tuesdays and Thursdays, maybe do some like cardio, go for a walk, go for a hike, when it warms up, swim, play basketball. And then I give my weekends the time to really rest. Warmups are also really important when your weight training. And one of the things that I've actually been able to do is my in-laws actually live nearby, about a 10 to 15-minute walk from my house. And they have, over their lives a crude like a bench press and some weights and a punching bag and just some basic

stuff in their basement after their youngest daughter moved out that they turned their basement into like a little impromptu workout room so I don't have to go to the gym I don't have to pay anything and walking that 10 to 15 minutes sometimes I'll throw on a 25 pound backpack sometimes I'll just walk normally but that walking is actually I view that as part of my warm up activity and I do that regardless of the weather so if it's snowing out if it's raining out um you know there's a little bit of the perseverance that comes with just walking for 10 minutes in a shitty you know sort of weather situation um and then i do some more warm warm warms when i get there but the basic of the basis of my training program is centered around the core movements kind

of what like asperanza was saying push pull hinge squat and carry um five basic core movements that you're definitely going to want to be able to perform and are going to be able and you're going to want to be able to perform deep into your age, right? Like being able to go into a deep squat as you get older is really important. Being able to hinge, to push weight away from you, to pull weight towards you. These are all basic functional strength things that can be applied day to day, whether it's picking up kids or carrying in the groceries or, you know, manual labor, whatever else you have to do. So quickly, my exercises are kettlebell swings, bench press, barbell bench press, barbell deadlift, barbell back squat, thanks to Esperanza helping me out with that,

a kettlebell overhead press, and then I end up my routine with a kettlebell suitcase carry, and I have a 55-pound kettlebell that I do most of those things with. And so I think more or less that creates all the core movements, the pushing. The deadlift is a hinge and a pull. I mean, I could throw in some pull-ups, some chin-ups to really get that pull movement. know, figured out, but the hinge is going to be at play in the kettlebell swing as well as the deadlift, the squat, obviously the back squat, and then ending up every single workout with the loaded suitcase carry.

So just taking a 55-pound kettlebell in one hand, keeping your back straight, walking slowly, you know, for about 30 feet and back. It helps with the traps. It helps with the core. The other side of your core that you're holding the weight on has to compensate for the weight pulling your body that way and that strengthens the side muscles in your in your abs and whatnot and so I feel like I get a full body workout. I practice the core movements and I walk away feeling very good and this has worked for me and it's continuing to work for me. Do you find anything in there Esperanza

that is wrong or does that more or less sound like a fairly good training program? Yeah, I mean to me that sounds like a great training program and again I think it you know all depends on what your goals are and so you know if you're maybe overwhelmed or like confused on what to do at home I think you know just really starting with what your goals are and then going from there can be a great place to start but I think there's no perfect program there's no right or wrong program and it really depends on one what your goals are and two what makes you feel good yes Definitely. All right. We're kind of coming towards the end of here, but I have a couple more questions for you. What activities in our lives can support our fitness training or complement

our fitness training? Yeah. So I think as we talked about a little bit, right, recovery is so important. So, you know, things like really ensuring that you can get, you know, good quality sleep every night, you know, nutrition, which again, be very careful of all the misinformation. but you know focusing on good nutrition and hydration right getting enough water i think those three things are really important and then also i know you meditate brett but i think meditation is also a very underappreciated tool that we could be using um you know i don't believe meditation is sort of this cure to all the ills that we experience in capitalism and i really hate the commodification of meditation by, you know, corporate bosses who push it as this sort of way

to, you know, basically be a better worker. But I do think it could be extremely helpful both to our fitness journey, but also just to our daily lives, right? And I would really encourage everyone to pick up that practice as well. Yeah, just like exercise, meditation can be co-opted and reduced and turned into salves, right, for shitty conditions. You know, putting the onus back on the individual. It's not the society's deteriorating conditions that is making you sad. It's really you need to take the responsibility of meditating and exercising to adjust yourself to fundamentally unjust conditions.

And of course, Esperanza and I utterly reject that. And we think exercise and meditation can offer something much, much, much deeper and even confrontational to capital. if done in certain ways and in certain context. And so you don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater just because they can be co-opted. You want to find what's actually useful about them and use them in reasonable ways, but understand that ultimately, you know,

I exercise and I meditate so that I can ideally be better positioned to confront the injustices of the world and help, you know, other people build a better one. And I think, you know, everything I do is contextualized within that broader aim, and I think that can help prevent this hyper-individualistic using these things as sort of opiates, if you will, to numb yourself or to take care of your own individual situation, even though a collective social struggle needs to be waged. So that's essential. But just generally, I would say, I highly echo your point about rest. You know,

that is when muscles are built. It's in the rest periods between working out. So, you know, if you're not allowing your body to rest. You're literally undermining what you're doing in the weight room or outside or whatever your exercise program is. But I would say that I've, I often promote these four foundations of health. And this is not groundbreaking or unique to me or anything like that. These are very scientifically backed pillars of a healthy life. First one is a high quality consistent sleep schedule. There are things you can do to make sleeping better, have a cooler, darker room, where eyeshades expose yourself to sunlight early in the morning so your circadian rhythm gets set in a healthier way but getting good sleep is essential for good rest which is essential for getting

the benefits of exercise and just for having a balanced mind and approach to the world so quality consistent sleep is number one this is not in any order these are just four pillars the second one is as we were discussing nutritious varied whole foods based a diet nothing extreme be able to enjoy yourself, but the core of your diet should be natural foods from the actual earth, not hyper-processed stuff. Number three, this entire episode is about it, near daily exercise of one form or another, getting outside, moving your body. And then number four, which I think is sometimes overlooked, is meaningful social relationships. It's proven scientifically that to live a healthy life requires having not a fuck ton, but just even a few core, meaningful social relationships that

orient you to other people to your community and are absolutely essential for basic levels of health and happiness for social animals like we are. So good sleep, good food, good exercise, good relationships. If you tend to all four of those things, you can create for yourself a really good foundation to do other meaningful things in your life. And so I would say those four things are really essential. And the three things that aren't exercise really help support. support and compliment whatever fitness and exercise training that you're doing. Does that sound right to you, Esperanza? Oh, yeah. That sounds completely on point. And I've heard you say that before, and I've definitely tried to incorporate more of those principles into my life as well.

Cool. All right. Well, the last question here is not really a question. It's just putting out some resources. So what resources would you recommend to people who listen to this conversation, find it somewhat inspiring and want to dive deeper into this world while avoiding all the pitfalls that we've outlined above. What would some resources you would offer be? Yeah, so I have four resources that I would like to offer. The first is, you know, if you are interested more in bodybuilding, right, which is sort of the sport of building muscle, I would definitely recommend that you check out Jeff Nippard. You know, he's on YouTube.

He's also on Instagram. Literally Jeff Nippard, J-E-F-F-N-I-P-A-R-D. You know, he's one of the people that, well, one, he actually, you know, really is able to read and interpret the science. And two, he's not a reactionary. You know, I'm connected with him. We follow each other on Instagram. And he has a pretty good politics. So I definitely recommend following him for any, you know, bodybuilding information.

Second is if you're interested in powerlifting, which is basically, you know, the sport of building strength in three main lifts, which are squats, stud lifts, and bench press. I would recommend checking out Jim Eli of Zau Strength, Z-A-O-S-A-O Strength. And he's also on the left, right? he's also, you know, a Marxist, a socialist, and he puts out some really good content on how to build strength, how to start a strength building program. And the third is if you're interested more in weightlifting, right, which are some of those Olympic weightlifting movements, I would recommend my friend David Bayer, who is a coach with meta weightlifting.

They're on Instagram, and their handle is Enter the META, which is M-E-T-A. And they put out some really great educational content as well, even if you're not interested in becoming necessarily a competitive weightlifter, but you want to learn how to squat better or how to do sort of movement patterns better. Their content is really great. And they also align politically with us generally. And then the fourth is, in terms of nutrition, I just think that there's so much misinformation out there. And so one person I would really encourage people check out, his name is Dr. Ids. And, you know, he's a physician, board certified in lifestyle medicine, master's in nutritional research.

And he basically just debunks a lot of the misinformation that makes people feel bad and as used to sell them products that they don't need. and his account is DR underscore IDZ. Perfect. And I will link to as much of that as I can in the show notes. All four of those recommendations for sure will be in the show notes so people can find them easier. And then I would just add one more resource that I've personally found helpful, especially for people who are interested in the science behind, you know, exercise routines and working out. It's actually the Huberman Lab podcast.

He has a six-episode series with Dr. Andy Galpin. on exercise science and every episode is about two plus hours long and they really get down to the nitty gritty of the science behind cardio, strength, training, nutrition and supplementation,

what to do, what not to do, what does and doesn't work and can get into the details of it in depth, all deeply rooted in the latest exercise science. So if you're scientifically inclined, I think that six episode series with Dr. Andy Galpin on the Huberman Lab podcast is a great place to start.

I learned a lot from it, so I'm offering that as well. But I really love Esperanza's emphasis on people that more or less share our politics because I do believe this is a terrain of political struggle or can be. It's a terrain of ideology and to have people with good politics talking about this stuff that's scientifically informed, that doesn't make people feel like shit, that doesn't replicate some of the harmful logics found in other subcultures, I think really is. an important part. So I really appreciate that. And I appreciate you overall Esperanza for being an inspiration, for doing so much wonderful stuff in the world, and for helping me get inspired and

get detailed on some of my issues with working out. And just seeing somebody go for it, it can be inspirational. And you've been that for me and for others. So I really appreciate that and I appreciate you coming on. Before I let you go, though, is there anything else you want to plug anything you want to recommend or any way that listeners can find you in your work online? Yeah, well, first of all, just want to thank you. You also are a huge inspiration to me, and I'm very blessed to be connected with you. In terms of anything that I would like to plug before leaving, I guess I just want to say, as many listeners might know, I was affiliated with a large, you know, anti-imperialist feminist organization, and several of us have split and are in the process of building

a new organization, re-centered around the principles of anti-imperialism, proletarian feminism, and anti-revisionism. And, you know, I would just like to invite anyone who is interested in learning more about the organization we're building or joining or supporting our work to, you know, come check us out. You can find information on how to contact us via email on my medium blog, which is proletarianfeminist.medium.com. And I would love to get connected with you on Instagram if you're there, just at proletarian feminists. And I'm no longer on Twitter, which in terms of health, fitness, and well-being, is probably one of the best decisions that I've ever made.

Absolutely. Yeah, I can't recommend that enough. I stay off it. I check it once in a while, but that's a great point as well. Well, Esperanza, thank you so much for everything you do, and we are kind of planning another episode soon to talk more in detail about your new organization, about the split, because I do think it's important for people on the left in the U.S. to understand the dynamics,

exactly what happened, and get directed toward the wonderful new organization that you're helping to build. So let's keep in touch, and let's do it again sometime, my friend. All right, thanks, Brett. What you know about the running, the stretching, the codders, the weapons, the path, the journey, the jewels, the learning, the learning, the fear, the focus, the aches, the aches, the pains, the pains, the contacts, sparring, the breaks, the sprains, the strains, the trial and error. The ranks and belts, the spiritual growth, the science of breath, the tests, the techniques, the forms, the stances, the flow, the rhythm, the internal answers, the herbs, the healing, the quiet meditation, the truths revealed through daily dedication, the love for the art, the sweat on your shirt, the mind, the body, and the spirit at work, the feelings of failure, the hopes to succeed, the battles with questions like should I smoke weed, the water, the thirst, the cleansing, the blessings, the flash of insight, the

teachings, the lessons, the grappling and locking, trapping and boxing, the training, and slacking, the starting, stopping, and staying committed when your homies ain't with it, the hours of practice after the class is finished, the cause of your ignorance, flaws in your discipline, broken laws of nutrition and poor conditioning, the vitamins and supplement, salves and ointments, the tincthips, pool joints, and doctor appointments, the dudes, the paths, the wraps, the gloves, the mouthpiece you left home, the taste of your home blood, the hunger, The blocks, the punches, the squats, the crunches, the example you sat. For the youngsters, the will, the skills, the kill or the hill,

the separation between what's fake and what's real. The laws of physics, the class, camaraderie, the vows of humility, the bow, the courtesy, us. Oh! Oh! Oh! Self-defense doesn't mean you're going to attack someone, but you do have the right to defend yourself doesn't mean you go out and attack someone, but you do have the right to depend yourself by any means necessary if you're in that position to defend yourself.