Rev Left Radio - Red Hot Take: DON'T TALK TO COPS!

Episode Date: July 2, 2019

In this episode, Breht explores issues surrounding the police, why you shouldn't talk to them, and what your rights are with regards to them. Check out the video version of this episode on our YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BS-0-oTeom0 Shout-out to all our friends who contributed to this piece:   Shawn and Aaron from Srsly Wrong   Mexie from the Vegan Vanguard   Frank and Bruno from The Left Page   Mel and Pearson from Coffee With Comrades   Jon and Ash from Horror Vanguard   Gord and John from Little Red Schoolhouse   and of course, our wonderful Producer Dave ----------- Intro Music: "Sound of da Police" by KRS-One   Outro Music: "Two Cups of Tea" by Star Fucking Hipsters ----------   Check out Rev Left Radio Here: www.revolutionaryleftradio.com

Should I talk to cops? Oh, no, no, yeah. Generally, you shouldn't talk to cops because... I don't talk to cops. No, no, yeah. They have no legal responsibility to tell the truth to you. You might accidentally misspeak. Police in the United States have too much power,

and by talking to them, you're opening up legal liabilities that you don't want. Oh, yeah, that's a great point. Thank you. I'm not going to talk to cops. Now, do you want to help me finish this swordfish dinner or not? Absolutely. That's why I'm here. Once you get through the thick skin of the swordfish,

it's actually got a very tender meat underneath. Where does an expert in swordfish, like you learn. everything you know. Oh, it's been my family for generations. It goes way back. It's who I am. Is that also where you learned your cop wisdom? No, I actually, cop knowledge. I learned listening to podcast, Revolutionary

Left Radio. That's the sound of the police. That's a sound of the police. Hello everybody and welcome back to Revolutionary Left Radio. I'm your host and Comrade Bred O'Shea and this is the second installment of our newish ongoing series called Red Hot Takes.

where it's basically me giving a monologue on a different topic or subject. Today we have contributions from a bunch of comrades who I asked to help out for this episode. They all sent in little clips that you'll hear throughout the show. So I want to give a shout out to Frank and Bruno from the Left Page podcast, Mexie from the Vegan Vanguard, Mel and Pearson from Coffee with Comrades, Sean and Aaron from Seriously Wrong, Gord from the Little Red Schoolhouse,

Ash and John from the Horror Vanguard, and finally producer Dave. Shout out to all of you. of these wonderful people for their contributions in this episode of The Red Hot Take. We really appreciate it. We will link to all of their projects in the show notes. Now, on with the show.

On a cold morning, I, your humble, and dedicated comrade, was waking up with my children for what I assumed would be a normal day. I had just finished brushing my son's teeth and putting some coffee on when I heard a knock on my door. Shirtless, blurry-eyed and confused, I peeked out of my window to see an unmarked car in my driveway. Thinking it was someone in need, I answered the door, assuming it would be a, lost pet situation, or possibly somebody looking for directions. I was caught off guard when the man flashed his badge and told me he was a detective with the local police department and immediately started telling me about how one of my comrades who lives in another state, but who I've worked with on various shows, was posting suicidal threats on social media.

And he, a humble and kind public servant who was just looking out for everyone's safety, needed to know this comrade's real name and address so that his police friends in the other state could go visit him and make sure he was safe. As I shook off to sleep and started processing what was happening, my mind kicked into gear and my skepticism started taking over. My friend wasn't suicidal. If he was, he certainly wouldn't be posting about it on Facebook. Why does this detective give a fuck anyways? And why would cops from a different state ask a detective here in my city to help them?

And in a matter of seconds, it dawned on me. The pig was lying. He was clearly playing the highly deceptive role of good cop and feigning concern about a comrade's safety in order to plumb me for information. I told the cop that I knew nothing, that I only knew this person via their alias online, that I hadn't talked to this person in months, and that I had literally no information whatsoever about them or their whereabouts,

and then ended the conversation as quickly as I could. The cop handed me his card with his cell phone number written on it and asked me to text him with any information I might remember or find out later. I closed the door, and he left. Now, this was not the first time that a detective, not a beat cop, mind you, but an investigative detective, has contacted me. Last year, my family and I were the target of a large Nazi docks. Among the many things they did to me, a coordinated call-in campaign to my local police

department was conducted. The content and aim of this harassment campaign was to place anonymous tips regarding me and the danger that I supposedly posed to the police, saying that I was a violent communist who was planning on killing rich people and blowing up public transportation. The police opened a case against me, and I had to explain to detectives that I was, in fact, not a terrorist ready to blow up infrastructure and assassinate rich people, but rather I was just a regular working class dad who organized locally and who ran some podcasts, and that this whole thing was a coordinated harassment and intimidation campaign by my political enemies. They seemed to accept that at the time, but I knew that I was on their radar and that they would still be investigating and monitoring me.

So when they came to my house like that, I was frazzled. It seemed to me to be confirmation that after all of these months, they were still seeing if they could dig something up on me. Was this investigation still going that strong after all of this time? Was he prodding me to see if I would be the sort of person who would hand over information on comrades? What was he angling toward? And did he really think that I would fall for his good cop routine? After he left, I promptly began reaching out to a few of my friends who were in law school, as well as a local lawyer who had helped some comrades out previously and was sympathetic to the left. I was seeking advice about my situation. I wanted to know what my rights were. Was I in fact still being

investigated and what I could do to ensure these dicks didn't show up at my house ever again. I also began researching my rights online, trying to educate myself as much as I could regarding how cops operate, and what I could do to get them off of my back. After all of this, I texted the number the cop had given me and told him that I had nothing to say to him about anything, and that if he didn't have a charge against me or a search warrant, to never contact me or my family again, and to never show up at my door. I also added the point that, as far as I could tell, the only reason I can, came across this detective's radar in the first place was because of a coordinated campaign by

neo-Nazis to use the police as a mechanism of harassment against me, and that the only crime that had been committed in this entire situation were the clearly false tips called in about me. And with that, I never heard from him again. Later, I found out that the reason the detective came to my house was because of yet another doc's campaign against me, this time coordinated by a wholly separate group of fascist scumbags. I also quickly discovered that the comrade in question was never even suicidal, nor did they post anything on Facebook, as they don't even have a Facebook account. So the cop had lied to me. He had pretended to be concerned about someone's physical safety and mental health solely to pump me for information that he could pass on to his colleagues in another state.

I was proud of myself for thinking quick on my feet and giving the cop absolutely nothing, as I would rather die than hand over a single piece of information to cops on anyone or any one. thing. But I also began to think about how cops are completely legally allowed to lie about anything that they want to. But for the rest of us, lying to a cop could result in charges in jail time. In fact, lying to police is a federal crime, punishable by up to five years in prison. Even an honest mistake on your part can be framed by police as a lie. And then it's your word against theirs in court. And who do you think usually fares better in those situations? Added to all of that, I began hearing stories from comrades about similar stuff happening to them or people they know, as well as seeing friends get doxxed in similar ways that I had, resulting in police involvement. So it's in that spirit, and with all of that in mind, that I wanted to create a resource here at Rev Left that laid out how cops lie and deceive constantly, and what we can do to protect ourselves from their criminal deception and intimidation tactics.

As things become less and less stable over the next couple of decades in the face of climate chaos and economic crisis, state repression against political dissidents and organizers on the left will increase. And as long as we still have some semblance of rights that people in the past fought and died for, we should understand them and use them to our advantage. Things are only going to get worse in this society. And when you have a far right-wing, white supremacist, settler colonial state in an era of crisis and empire decay, It's marginalized people and people on the far left that will bear the brunt of its increasingly repressive violence as the ruling class fights tooth and nail to maintain its domination over the rest of us. It is precisely for that reason that we all need to be knowledgeable on how to deal with the domestic foot soldiers of that state.

And I hope this episode can act as a resource that comrades can pass around in their cadres and organizations to help build up our defenses. The main message of this episode is simple and clear. Don't talk to cops. Now, before we get into this, I want to add an important caveat. What I'm going to cover is general advice. It doesn't apply in every single situation for every single person at all times. If, for example, you are a person of color, sometimes refusing to talk to cops can mean putting yourself in real danger. While balding, middle-aged white guys with cell phone cameras might be able to scream,

Am I being detained in a cop's face during a routine traffic stop without repercussion? the same is not true for everyone else. Sandra Bland, for example, was pulled over for a broken taillight, and her refusal to bow down to the pig's every petulant demand resulted in her imprisonment and ultimate murder at the hands of the state. Moreover, there are situations in which you may be the victim of some crime and the police are the only option you have to turn to. In those situations, I advise people to do what they have to do to stay safe.

But today, I'll cover this topic from a general standpoint, and I hope people find it useful, specifically when it comes to political activity. The first and most common mistake people commit when they are approached by police is to assume, since they didn't do anything wrong and since they have nothing to hide, that talking to police doesn't represent a threat. After all, if you truly did nothing wrong and have nothing to hide, then talking to police is often seen as the quickest way to clear up any misunderstandings.

But this is a mistake, especially when it comes to political activity. Anyone who has participated in our pop cultural obsession with true crimes, documentaries like the confession tapes, making a murderer, or the popular serial podcast, knows very well how time and time again, innocent people make the mistake of thinking that the cops are genuinely just interested in finding out the truth of the matter and end up writing false confessions or otherwise being charged and convicted of a crime they did not commit. As the LA Times reported, this happens more than we might think, and the young or disabled are disproportionately victimized in this way.

Quote, it happens especially in cases when the suspect is young and vulnerable. An analysis of 125 proven false confessions found that 33% of the suspects were juveniles at the time of arrest and at least 43% were either mentally disabled or ill. Another study of 340 exonerations found that 13% of adults falsely confessed compared to 42% of juveniles.

And nearly half of the exonerated children were, put behind bars because of something they said to police without an attorney present." End quote. Law school professor James Duane goes on to cite two cases which highlight this reality. Quote, in Oakland, police isolated and interrogated a 16-year-old named Felix in the middle of the night without a lawyer and denied his request to see his own mother. Eventually he gave them a detailed, videotaped confession to a murder, allegedly filled with numerous specifics that only the real killer would have known.

At that point, it looked like there was little chance this young man would be able to avoid a conviction. When a jury hears that someone has confessed, they are almost certain to convict. But fortunately for young Felix, it was later revealed that he had an airtight alibi. He had been locked up in a juvenile detention facility the day of the killing. The charges were dismissed and he was released from jail. Eddie Lowry was a 22-year-old soldier stationed at Fort Riley, Kansas. When he was interrogated for an entire workday about a rape and murder he never committed. Like a typical innocent man, he persisted for hours in emphatic assertions of innocence.

Like typical police officers, the interrogators acted open-minded and unconvinced. Perhaps, he foolishly hoped, he might persuade them of his innocence if he repeated his story over and over again at greater and greater length. After the day-long interrogation, he was worn out and gave them a detailed confession. He served more than 20 years in prison until he was recently released, after evidence proved that he was actually innocent. So why in the world did Lowry confess to such a terrible crime when we now know that he was innocent all along? He explained the mindset of someone who has been broken down by seven hours of relentless interrogation. He said, quote, I didn't know any way out of that except to tell them what they wanted to hear, and then get a lawyer to prove my innocence.

You've never been in a situation so intense, and you're naive about your rights. You don't know what someone will say to get out of that situation, end quote. You see, a dirty little truth about the American injustice system is this. Cops don't really give a fuck about the truth. They want to close cases and move on. And in virtually every case, the prosecutor is friendly with the police and wants to get a conviction. These are the proven ways to advance one's career in these fields. Dedicating yourself to truth and justice no matter the cost isn't conducive at all to the incentive structures embedded into these fields.

And if you don't have social or literal capital and are young or otherwise marginalized, you become an easy target. the system grind you up and spit you out and no one sheds a tear they just move on to their next victim the more concerned a cop or a prosecutor is with climbing the career ladder the less concerned they are about pesky little things like facts and fairness in fact prosecutors easily rationalize away their responsibility to abstract principles like justice or truth because their job really has nothing to do with that their job is to maintain a solid conviction rate and to get reelected and even if you are totally innocent, but find yourself facing charges from a zealous prosecutor, you may be forced by circumstance to take what is known as an Alfred plea. This is when you plead guilty to charges while maintaining your innocence on the grounds that it is simply too risky to go to trial. Countless innocent people have been locked in cages in precisely this way, and the less money you have to afford a good lawyer, the more enticing the Alfred plea becomes, because spending a few years in prison as an innocent person is better than spending a few decades in prison

as an innocent person. Talking to cops opens up the door to the possibility of this happening to you. So don't talk to cops. Knowing for a fact that you were innocent and did nothing wrong is all the more reason to not talk to police because things can only get worse for you, never better. You might talk to cops and they find you to be truthful

and they let you go. In that case, your situation hasn't improved. It's merely stayed the same and you just lost a few minutes or hours of your life. But on the other hand, you might slip up on one minor detail, mix up a specific time or date, fumble an alibi out of poor memory, and then you've opened yourself up to being victimized. In that case, your situation has become significantly worse. So talking to cops, even if they approach you in a friendly way, saying seemingly tame things like,

we just want to chat, or you're not in trouble, we just have a few questions for you, can never result in your situation improving. So, like, don't fucking talk to cops. You have nothing to gain and everything to lose. Former United States Supreme Court Justice Robert Jackson, a person whose entire life is premised on understanding the law at the deepest levels possible, said in 1949, quote, any lawyer worth his or her salt will tell the client in no uncertain terms

to make no statement to the police under any circumstances, end quote. If that doesn't convince you, I don't know it will. Don't talk to cops. Another important thing to keep in mind at all times is that police can and will lie to you. There are no laws or rules against police deceiving people. In fact, it's an integral part of policing in this country. Pigs lie all the time. They lied to me about my friend, and not just any little white lie either. They tried to make me think that my friend was threatening to kill themselves. Think about someone lying about that in any other context.

That person would rightfully be seen as a fucking monster. Why would you lie about something like that? But cops could not give less of a fuck. Not only will they lie to your face about anything and everything, but they will often pretend to be your friend or to be genuinely concerned about you or someone you know. Veteran cops and detectives are master manipulators with absolutely no scruples or sense of ethics. If you doubt this, I urge you to look up interrogation videos where someone falsely confessed to a crime they didn't commit simply out of sheer exhaustion and intense pressure from the cops. Oftentimes, cops will promise to let you go back to your family if you sign a confession, only to arrest you on the spot when you do. do. These pigs are criminally shameless in their willingness to deceive someone they know to be innocent into confessing to a crime they know the person didn't commit. Don't talk to cops.

If the police want to talk to you out of the blue about anything, you can assume with high certainty that you are either a suspect or a possible suspect. They will tell you to your face that this isn't the case, but it is. And once you start talking, the goal is to keep you talking. The more words that come out of your mouth the better because every syllable you utter to a cop is one more opening for them to pounce on any mistakes or white lies. Every sentence you utter to an officer represents a step away from safety. In my case, even after I texted the detective to leave me alone, he responded that he respects my constitutional rights and then instead of ending the discussion there, he asked me who my lawyer was and how he could contact them if he needed to. I never responded because

it was clear what he was trying to do. He was trying to squeeze a few more syllables and sentences out of me, hoping that if I kept talking, some new premise or error or misremembrance would crop up and he would have more to work with. He would have a bit more raw material to shape into whatever he wanted. So again, I implore you. Don't talk to cops. At this point, I am confident that most of you understand and accept that talking to the police will never work to your advantage and that the obvious thing to do is simply invoke your Fifth Amendment right to remain silent. But not so fast. Not talking to police includes not having to invoke your Fifth Amendment.

In fact, in 2013, there was a Supreme Court case that made even this staple of the so-called American justice system much less effective. As law professor James Dwayne put it, quote, Up until about five years ago, lawyers would give out business cards to their clients and say, read this to the police, and it'd say, at the advice in my attorney, I declined to answer on the grounds that it may incriminate me. I'm invoking my Fifth Amendment. And there wasn't a lot of soul-searching and agonizing that went into all of this because as long as the jury never finds out that you took the fifth, it's a perfectly sensible solution. But the tide turned three years ago in 2013 when this wretched, abominable decision by the Supreme Court in Salinas v. Texas that changed everything. In the Salinas case, a young man was interrogated by the police, and when they asked him a bunch of questions that didn't seem to be very threatening, he took the bait and answered them all.

then all of the sudden they asked a question that made it obvious they wanted information that might expose him to criminal prosecution and he just got silent. He didn't say a word. And there's no doubt that he was exercising his Fifth Amendment privilege, but he didn't formally assert his Fifth Amendment privilege. So the five Republican appointees on the Supreme Court said, because you didn't tell the police that you were using your Fifth Amendment privilege, your exercise of the privilege or your decision to remain silent can be used against you as evidence of guilt, which probably had a dozen Supreme Court. Court justices rolling over in their grave. The game has changed now that your choice to use the Fifth Amendment privilege can be used against you at trial depending exactly how and where you do it. If you're kind of clumsy about the way you assert the Fifth Amendment, you're running a lot of different risks, end quote. So when we say don't talk to cops, we mean it. In a situation where you are out in public and an officer stops you in the middle of doing

something to question you, you are only legally required to tell the cop your name and what you are doing only at that exact moment. Beyond that, you have no legal obligation to say anything else. If the police continue to ask you questions or harass you, there are four magical words for you to utter before going silent. I want a lawyer. As we descend toward a close tonight, I want to summarize and reiterate what we've covered in this episode by reading Professor Duane's top 10 reasons why you should not talk to the police. Reason number one, talking to the police cannot and will not help you. Talking to the police cannot make any difference.

Nobody can talk their way out of an arrest. No matter how savvy or intelligent you think you may be, you will not convince them that you are innocent. And any good statements that may help you that you tell the police cannot be introduced into evidence because of hearsay rules. It's a lose-lose situation. Do not. I repeat, do not under any circumstances, talk to the fucking cops.

reason number two even if you're guilty and you want to confess and get it off your chest you still shouldn't talk to the police there is plenty of time to confess and admit guilt later why rush the inevitable first hire an attorney let them do their work and maybe you will win your case

it is much harder to win when there is a confession for example do you know what happens if the cop cannot be located and there is no confession the case gets dismissed it's not a universal rule but it's more common than you might think Hey kids If you want to be cool like your pal Dave here Don't talk to cops Dab on the haters and yeat the police

Reason number three Even if you are innocent It's easy to tell some little white lie in the course of a statement When people assert their innocence They sometimes exaggerate their statements And tell a little white lie on accident That same lie could be later used To destroy your credibility at trial

No matter what No matter what Do not talk to cops and remember all cops are bastards reason number four even if you are innocent and you only tell the truth and you don't tell any little white lies it is possible to give the police some detail of information that can be used to convict you if you make any statement it could be later used against you for example i did not kill the guy i was not around the area when it happened i don't have a gun i've never owned a gun i never liked the guy but hell who did bingo we just found your incriminating statement i never liked you the guy. Don't talk to cops. Reason number five, even if you were innocent and you only tell the truth and you don't tell any little white lies and you don't give the police any information that can be used against you to prove motive or opportunity, you still should not talk to the police because of the possibility that the police might not recall your statement with

100% accuracy. Nobody has a perfect memory. This includes law enforcement. At that point, it's your word against theirs. Do not talk to cops. Reason number six. Even if you're innocent and you only tell the truth and your entire statement is videotaped so that the police don't have to rely on their memory, an innocent person can still make some innocent assumption about a fact or state some detail about the case they overheard on the way to the police station. And the police will assume that the only way the suspect could have known that fact or that detail was if he was in fact guilty. If you overhear a fact from someone else and later adopted as your own, it can be used to crucify you at trial. Oh, give me a break. You even thought about talking to that cop? Reason number seven.

Even if you're innocent and you only tell the truth in your statement and you give the police no information that can be used against you and the whole statement is videotaped, a suspect's answer can still be used against him if the police, through no fault of their own in many cases, have any evidence that any of the suspect statements are false, even if they are really true. Honest mistakes by witnesses can land you in jail. Why take the risk? Hey, comrades, it's John and Ash from Horror Vanguard with a very important reminder. Don't talk to cops. Rule number eight, the police do not have authority to make deals or grant a suspect leniency in exchange for getting a statement. Law enforcement personnel do not have authority to make deals, grant you immunity, or negotiate plea agreements. The only entity with that authority is the county or Commonwealth.

attorney in state court and the U.S. attorney in federal court. The officers will tell you that they do, but they are lying. They lie constantly. And now a word from our sponsors. Don't talk to cops. Not you, not anyone. Don't talk to cops. They don't have your best interests in mind. Reason number nine. Even if a suspect is guilty and wants to confess, there may be mitigating factors which justify a lesser charge. You may be accused of committing one offense when in fact, you are guilty of a lesser offense. By confessing to the higher offense, you are throwing away bargaining chips. The prosecutor can try the case with your confession to the higher offense.

There is no reason to confess. No matter the place, no matter the time, don't talk to cops. And finally, reason number 10. Even for a completely honest and innocent person, it is difficult to tell the same story twice in exactly the same way. If trial is the first time you tell your story, then there is no other statement by you to contradict any of your facts. However, if you have told your story twice, once at trial and once to the police, you are

probably going to mess up some facts. It's human nature. A good cross-examination by a prosecutor will tear you apart. Don't talk to cops. And there you go. Ten reasons why, no matter what, you should never talk to the police. It is truly horrifying that our legal system so often convicts and imprisonment. innocent people for crimes they did not commit, often for the rest of their lives.

And in many of these cases, the critical evidence, sometimes the only evidence, was truthful information that some innocent person voluntarily gave the police because they foolishly thought they had nothing to lose by giving up the right to remain silent. Don't make that mistake. In the coming decades, as climate change puts increasing pressure on governments, as rabid inequality forces class conflict to erupt on every continent, as insurgent fascist movement, rise and multiply, and as the ruling class gets increasingly desperate in its attempts to hold on to every ounce of power and privilege they have, the state will become increasingly

belligerent, violence, and repressive. It behooves us all to know what our rights are, as long as we still have them, and how to deal with police if we should ever find ourselves forced into an encounter with them. Moreover, it's essential that we understand this stuff so that we can help educate others. I couldn't possibly cover every aspect of this topic. But I hope that what I have covered tonight can be used as a resource for people and as a jumping off point for further investigation into the system and how it works so that we can better be prepared to defend ourselves, our loved ones, and our communities from the forces of state deception, intimidation, and violence. Nothing I've said today suggests that you should take a hostile or confrontational approach to police. You can do all of this in a polite, mild-mannered, and matter-of-fact way which lessens the risk of pissing off a power-house. hungry pig and putting yourself or loved ones in danger.

There is an old atmosphere line, which has always stuck with me. Slug says in his song entitled Vampires, quote, I do believe in monsters. I call them officers. I know enough to know to keep an eye on how I talk to them, end quote. And it's that practical advice that I hope people keep in mind. The goal of this episode is not to promote dangerous confrontations or escalations with police. On the contrary, the goal is to make sure as many people as possible are knowledgeable about

their rights and are prepared to deal with cops calmly and confidently. More than anything else, I simply want to offer one more layer of protection for all of you. I want to ensure that you all stay safe in a world that's becoming less and less safe every goddamn day. So don't talk to the cops. Love and solidarity. Good night. One for you and one for me.

Drain out the pain from polluted acid rain. Flaming gasoline. until we're clean Two dead police One for hope and one for peace Watching government lies Leap into your empty eyes From the TV

And where there's history Three dead police One for thanks and two for pleas In every single town Every officer is down All dead police All dead police It's a you are you to defend

All the mountains we lie From all I just in the time No male to send To feel a love right Anxiety I know the gift from you to me And so everything fails My bleeding bent finger nails

Sore as can be Anxiety if it was up to me I would restart history Ignat the flame and burn these centuries Ableed centuries These bloody centuries Please

So I'm a friend So I'm a friend Yes for you I do defend All the mountains we climb from all in this end of time No male to sign Just that was a friend I'm trying Another gift from you to me

Everything feels like all you can't figure out So are asking me Identity And in the dome I'll see that you have gone And on that blood so bad, I lay down my weary head And home alone To this fucking song

One cup of tea Not enough for a company Maybe tomorrow you could let me borrow Another cup of tea Another cup of tea In your company and your company.