Rev Left Radio - The Greensboro Massacre of 1979

Episode Date: March 23, 2021

In this episode, Breht is joined by Nilija, Ember, and Cam - three organizers living in and around Greensboro - to discuss the Greensboro Massacre (1979) and its legacy. Check out the People's Freedom Assembly here:  https://linktr.ee/peoplesfreedomassembly Remember and Honor our fallen Greensboro comrades: - Sandra Neely Smith - Dr. Michael Nathan - Dr. James Waller - William Evan Sampson - Cesar Cauce   Outro Music: "Dittybop" by Bambu (feat. Rocky G, Kiwi, & Ruby Ibarra) ----- Support Rev Left Radio: https://www.patreon.com/RevLeftRadio or make a one time donation: PayPal.me/revleft LEARN MORE ABOUT REV LEFT RADIO: www.revolutionaryleftradio.com

They shot these people down like dogs. It was murder, but they went free. This particular day we knew that they were going to be there doing the rally so we wanted to go and support the rally and while we were going to show our support. And while we were going to show our support we heard the screams of there was the KKK that pulled up in the the blue car, we thought they were just going to fist fight. Nobody actually knew there were going to be, you know, any guns involved. And the next thing we knew, you know, a fight broke out. And I remember one guy in particular run to the car that they had parked and opened

the trunk. And I knew what that meant. They came out. with the rifle and the gun, and they started shooting. You know, we had a chance to see, you know, the bodies laying out. It was trauma. It was a cultural shock. It was, you know, all of those things that we never expected, just boom, boom, boom. You know, this is a human body, you know, with the face. Almost shot off. You know, that image, you know, will be in my head.

I know the rest of my life. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Revolutionary Left Radio. On today's episode, I have three organizers from Greenpeace. North Carolina on to talk about the Greensboro Massacre, a really important and I think undercover event in American history as well as left wing history in this country. Joining me today are Nelijah, Ember, and Cam to discuss this event, talk about its fallout, and to talk about how the community has responded over the almost 42 years since the event happened. And as always, if you like what we do here at RevLeft Radio, you can join our Patreon at patreon.com forward slash RevLeft

Radio. And in exchange for your generous donations and contributions to the show, you do get access to bonus monthly content. So without further ado, let's get into this wonderful episode on the Greensboro Massacre. Hey, my name's Amber. My pronouns are they them? I live and organize in Greensboro. I'm a reconnecting native of the Okanichi Suponi Nation, the land that Greensboro is violently occupied. I'm Nelaja, I use Shidae pronouns. I am originally from Newport, News, Virginia. I'm moved to Charlotte, North Carolina, and I'm currently living, organizing, and going to school in Greensboro, North Carolina, like Ember said, occupied Okunichy land.

I'm Cameron, my Hebei pronouns. I'm originally from Raleigh, which is occupied Tescarora land. But I currently live and organized and go to school. in Greensboro, which like Elijah and Ember have referred to, is occupied Okunichy land. Well, I'm very happy to have all three of you on, and I really wanted people from that community or familiar with that community to bring to light this event, because I think that it does matter to have people from communities speak about the communities in which they live. And I also wanted, as always, you know, principled socialist thinkers, and all of you certainly fill that. So I'm really excited to have you all on to talk about this fascinating, important, and understudied historical event.

But before we get into the topic, can either one of you, any of you, all of you, just update us a little bit on the local organizing efforts happening in your community? Oh, yeah, definitely. So the People's Freedom Assembly is a black and indigenous led collective that came to be from an internal split from GSOO. So while the internal struggle was happening, I started gathering supplies for what we have now for PFA. The initial supplies for PFA were solely funded by my sex work funds. I used my funds for buying the initial supplies and resources the collective would need to continue doing community work. Because just because we were leaving an organization, like the work was not going to stop. going to continue organizing.

I wanted to make a space where my black comrades, my black and women and non-men comrades could organize safely away from violence because that's what anti-blackness is. Once I gathered the supplies that we would need to start doing basic weekly distributions to the houseless, I reached out to those who I felt would not be ignorant to the material conditions of America, and I reached out to them. I pulled them out so they could be in a safe space, and we got to organizing. And basically, so once Amber pulled everyone out, and we came together to figure out what would be the best way to move forward and build community with our houseless comrades and also restore some of the community that was, I guess you could say, like, fucked up

within the well structure, we decided that the best way that we can go about that is through two programs, which we have the people's meal and the people's aid. So the people's meal is where we get together once a week to make sure that our house's comrades have a hot meal, at least a hot meal a week. All of that, like Amber said, was initially funded by their sex work and also the funds, now we're sustaining ourselves through people within our org structure who have enough to donate and also just crowdfunding dimensions. And then we also have the people's aid, which is

geared at making sure our houseless comrades have essential hygiene stuff. So make sure they have razors, face masks, hand sanitizers, menstrual cycle stuff, all of that kind of stuff. And we do that twice a week. And overall, both of these

are aimed at just making sure that we're building good neighborness with people in Greensboro because we want to base bill through the belief of community-mindedness, radical curiosity, and service. And so now that we have these programs basically figure it out and we're doing it on a routine basis, we're thinking about new ways and creative ways to start mass political education within our org structure or our collective structure in the greater Greensboro community.

Anything to add on that? Oh, our zine. We're working on a zine to hand out to houseless people. like with excerpts of accessible political education, just like theory and like things about community defense and community care. When I say community defense, I don't mean guns. I mean community defense.

Of course, guns are important, but just like people get overly focused on guns and just like sort of like get to a point where they're sort of worshiping the gun. The gun is necessary for like any sort of. of revolutionary action, but you got to get to a lot of places before you feel comfortable just like arming people. Absolutely. Yeah. Guns in and of themselves are meaningless if they're disconnected from a plethora of other programs and from the support of the community overall. Absolutely. Let's get into the event that we're here to discuss, which is the Greensboro Massacre. And this is something I've wanted to cover for a very long time. I think it's

incredibly important if for only the reason that, and there's many more reasons, but the forces at play and the way that these forces teamed up and the interest that they served, I think, is a pattern that is still very much alive and well in this white supremacist, settler, colonial society. So this is a snapshot of a moment, but it reverberates and says a lot about the entire society, past, present, and until a revolution of some sort occurs the future. So for those that don't know, and in the most general terms, because we are going to dive deeper, what was the Greensboro Massacre? And why is it an important historical event? The Greensboro Massacre is perhaps one of the most important human tragedies in Greensboro,

North Carolina, at least modern tragedies, especially for revolutionary movement building. It took place on November 3rd, 1979, when the FBI, the GPD, the KKK, American Nazis, and the ATF were all in cahoots to kill communists and labor organizers while they are demonstrating in a public black housing project Morningside Homes. Over the course of 88 seconds, 10 people were injured and five demonstrators were killed

by gunshots from white supremacist hordes. It is an important event because it demonstrated the brutality of the racial capitalist state and how ACAB is truly a real thing on every level. Local, state, federal law enforcement, all cooperated to kill activism, broad daylight. It also demonstrated the South's overall hostility to labor union organizing, especially multiracial labor union organizing, and how anti-communism and anti-blackness are deeply

intertwined. Just as it cannot be minimized that this attack took place, as the demonstrators were marching through a black housing community, it also cannot be minimized that preaching anti-capitalism and anti-racism in itself was grounds for public execution by a North American Death Squad. So yeah, that's really important. And the way you framed it as a North American Death Squad, Quad cam, I think, is incredibly important because it ties it to the legacy and the activity of imperialism at that time before and to the present day. And it really was this force of workers' rights, black liberation, all tied up, facing the forces of violent white reaction, state and non-state.

It was right about there that I was bent over Jim Waller, who was shot in the back. I took his glasses off, and I heard the air come out of him and knew that he was dead. My name is Reverend Nelson Johnson. I survived an attack by the Klan and Nazis in November of 1979, in which five people were killed, ten were wounded, and this neighborhood was terrorized. Approximately where I'm standing, maybe a little bit behind me, people were gathering and they were singing and they were chanting, a lot of positive energy out.

About 20 minutes after 11, the Klan caravan, a line of cars came down and turned in this direction. When the 8th car in a 9-caravan stopped and the back of the trunk came up and people got out of the 9th car, came up to the 8th car, retrieved long weapons, looked like shotguns, and started to fire in the direction of the crowd. At that time, I was attacked by a Nazi with a butcher knife. And actually, it was right in here, right about here, that we engaged each other. And he cut me through my arm when I was trying to block him. And then I heard the shots in a few seconds, it stopped, and the cars rushed away. Michael was shot in the face right about here.

Caesar was shot right about here. Jim Waller was shot closer back to this direction. Sandy Smith was trying to get the children behind a community center. When she came back around to get some more children, that's when she was hit. The stump of the tree is the only thing out here that provides a little bit of a landmarker for where things happen. Because the bodies were on this side, and I really didn't. know this tree had been cut down until I came out here today. But cutting of this tree is like unpiling the stones that the priests piled up when they crossed over the river Jordan so that when

your children's children ask what happened here. That tree would be a mechanism of memory so that we could tell the story. And unless we tell stories about the truth of our journey, then I'm afraid that we are locked into the worst of our yesterdays and therefore block the possibility of a bright tomorrow. Before we dive deeper into the event itself, and what was fascinating about this event as a sort of digression is the fact that it was videotaped. So anybody can go online.

You'll hear clips, audio clips throughout this episode, but anybody can go online. And, you know, graphic warning, of course, it's hard to watch. And it brought tears to my eyes. eyes and it, you know, twisted my stomach to actually see it. But it was all videotaped. And that's going to come into play later when we discuss the trial and the position of police within this entire thing. But let's talk about the context right now that preceded it. So can any of you

talk about who the Communist Workers Party was and the sort of activity that they participated in? Right. So when we're talking, well, first I do, I just want to honor, like, for anyone that does go and want to look at these videos that they are very graphic. And as a student in Greensboro, I go to North Carolina A&T. It's a historical black college university. That's one of the first things that we learn about when we talk about Greensboro history, how it has affected black people in this community. And we touch on the Greensboro massacre. And that was one of the first things that I actually, one of my first experiences that got me ready to organize in Greensboro. So it is holographic and just taking time to honor all of the lives that are affected.

and affected to this day, whether folks know or don't know by this event. So when we're talking about the Greensboro Massacre and the CWP, who they were in the context, it's kind of like a really layered question because we know that the creation of any type of organizing body is precipitated by their material conditions, what's going on in the community. So when we talk about the early 1900s in Greensboro, North Carolina, like the 40s, the 20s, the 20s, the 30s, all the way up until around the civil rights movement, you have a society that is divided along the race line, like any place in the South in America at this time. And so what that looks like is that you have big corporations, meals in particular, like cone mills and all these

other different textile corporations that employ racist hiring practices. So black people will be hired as custodians and white people will be hired as the actual mill workers. And so what this does is that while black people are being treated unfairly, like they're not getting paid enough, they're having, they're being subjected to racist bullshit. They can't do much about it because for them to unionize would literally mean that they would lose their jobs. And even in some cases where some folks have decided to do so bravely unionized, white workers will walk right through their strikes, number one. And there was just no worker solidarity there. So they oftentimes ended, again, with black people being fired and nothing to really be done for black people in the name of their liberation, the name of their equal treatment, anything like that. Yeah.

So then you get towards the late 50s, the early 60s, you get the civil rights movement beginning to ignite and spark in Greensboro, North Carolina. A lot of people are familiar with the A&T4. But before we talk about the A&T four, we have to talk about the women of Bennett College, who from the beginning, like during the 50s, the early 50s, even a little bit towards the late 40s, they are already engaging in radical politics. They're really unapologetic about the fact that black people deserve freedom and that there needs to be, there needs to be something done about the conditions in Greensboro, North Carolina. So before the A&T4 does the famous sit-in at the Waldruff counter, Bennett college women have a sit-in. And following that center, the ANT4 see this, and they themselves feel it's important that they do it as well. And so, boom, they go ahead, they sit at the counter, and it sparks this whole civil rights movement where Martin Luther King, Jr., all these people get together and they're like, we need to continue to keep this up. And so following that, we get the Civil Rights Act, and following a bunch of other things, not just the ANT4, but a culmination of organizing efforts by black people and people who believe in black liberation across the country, of course.

following that we get the civil rights movement the civil rights act the voting rights act and so what this did in greensboro is that mills were no longer able to openly employ racist hiring practices as much as they were back in the day so now black people are being hired as actual textile workers right and so what this does is that the labor force within the mills are now black and white And so you have two responses to that. You have the white supremacist side and you have the unionist, communist, black liberation side.

The unionist, communists, and black liberation people, they are wanting to organize amongst the races. They want to just show that we are all workers. We all deserve equal pay. We all deserve better living conditions. Let's organize together. The white supremacists go that, see, that's what communists do. They only want to give the jobs to black folks.

They want to take away good white workers. and they want to take away their jobs and they want to hire a bunch of niggers. That's what their line was in this moment. And so, yeah, so this is the kind of environment that born the CWP. That was a lot. I think it's incredibly important to understand, not only this is like the immediate history, right, but the decades that preceded it, even in a local context, because this event, of course, cannot be separated from not only the decades,

but the centuries of white supremacy and brutalization that preceded it and followed it. So I really appreciate how far back you went and highlighted even like the civil rights struggles and how this was a decades-long mounting sort of issue within unions themselves. I think that's absolutely essential. Right. And I also want to add that because I don't think I touch much on the CWP themselves. So that environment is what born the CWP in Greensboro, right? But as a national organization, the CWP, before they were the Communist Worker Party, they were known as the World View Organization.

And this was a national organization that was a part of different states all across America. They had chapters in different states. And so in Greensboro, they started off as the WVO, the Workers' World View Organization. And a second thing that I really want to highlight and make sure that people understand when we talk about the Greensboro, massacre is how communism began to be viewed both by black people and white people. So as the white supremacists were basically racializing communism as if it was only for, as they were, I'm trying to think a good way to say this, they were racializing it in a way where all communists and union people only wanted to see black people progress in a way where white

people would be living awful, if that makes sense. Like, you know how white people, like, white supremacists start talking as if black liberation people want to enslave white people, or if their goal is to make sure that white people are just hell of disadvantage or whatever bullshit they'd be spending to make their stuff make sense. So that's kind of what they did. So a lot of white people, even like the liberal white people, the white people who didn't want to see black people getting beaten, they were becoming anti-labor people. They're becoming anti-labor and anti-unionist because they started viewing. this struggle as displacing them and their work and their families. And black people, on the

other hand, you think about coming off of the civil rights movement, they just saw their children being jailed. Like in Greensboro, North Carolina, all of the college students, they were being jailed for days and weeks went in because of this movement, because they were willing to go down to the counters and sit in because they were willing to protest and march and do all the things. These people had just watched their children. They themselves had just had to fight this, like, brutal struggle. And now we see this re-insurgency of it. So a lot of black people are feeling apprehensive about it on top of that. And also the CWP in its insurgency had a lot of white comrades. You know, there were definitely black people there. When we get more into the massacre,

we will start talking names. But there were definitely black people are part of the movement. But it was, it looked white. So lots of folks were feeling on both sides. they're feeling uncomfortable with the labor struggle, the union struggle, communism, all of that stuff. Yeah. Yeah. It's really interesting to think about how anti-communist fear mongering has really always gone hand in hand with rabid anti-blackness.

And of course, that serves the interests of the capitalist class overall because you're splitting the workforce along racial lines at the same time that you're tying communism with like white fear and as you said the wild projections right and it says so much about the white supremacist psychology that they can't imagine a world of equality and their only imagine their imagination of black liberation is going to be revenge for what they themselves have done to others that shows i think a a pathological projection of their own cowardice fear and repressed shame um which i think it you know there's a whole other episode again the psychology of that but it's it's it's It's alive and well today as well on the far right.

And I think in America and beyond, but specifically in America, anti-communism, anti-blackness, and anti-Semitism are three, there's probably more, but those are three pillars of the fascist ideology and worldview because the entire idea of, you know, Jewish-controlled government and they're the ones letting, you know, non-white people immigrate, et cetera. It's all deeply tied together. And even, I mean, even in the early days of the Bolsheviks. Hitler tied Judaism and Bolshevism together as one thing, come over into the American context with its deep centuries-long history of anti-blackness. That just gets tacked on with ease. So, yeah, absolutely incredibly fascinating. And correct me if I'm wrong here, but certainly the the CWP was a Marxist, Leninist organization. Was it even, was it Maoist? Was that part of the ideological makeup? Yeah. See, like this, and I was when I was thinking about how to answer this

question in my mind. I'm like, this is a lot of information to cover in like one question because it is hella layer, right? So like, you're right. They were MLN and that was another portion of which for some people could be a little nervous for them because they were like hardcore MLM. Like they were writing critiques on some of like the people that I respect because like, you know, how Mao gets into that like really fuck revisionism. So, like, they were real tight on fuck revisionism. So, like, they, that critiques for people, like, Fidel Castro and all sorts of folks. So, yeah, they were MLM.

Yeah. The pros and cons of that still certainly live on in the malice tradition to this day. Yeah. But, yeah, that militancy, that uncompromising nature, was certainly present, and maybe we'll talk about it a little bit, but in the rhetoric leading up to this conflict, which they had every fucking right to be that militant with their rhetoric, of course. course. But let's go ahead and move on to that to a question revolving around that. And that's how did the Communist Workers Party come into conflict with the reactionaries in Greensboro, who were the reactionary organizations that were involved in? What were their interactions like leading up

to the massacre? So as the CWP was working to organize workers in mill industries across the triad, the insurgency of the KKK was making their organizing efforts more difficult. Many KKK members, American Nazi members, were openly opposing the mixing of races, which they did to hamper the multiracial organizing practices of CWP. Leading up to the Greensboro Massacre, we have to understand two very important events that are integral to understanding the Greensboro Massacre. the KKK exhibit at a local library in Winston-Salem and China Grove Town Hall showing birth of a nation. So essentially for the Winston-Salem event, a local library in Winston-Salem was hosting a KKK exhibit in his basement. The members of local like Communist Worker Party who entered the basement with the intention of smashing the so-called artifacts in the exhibit were confronted by armed clans members. who were in attendance.

The event somehow ended without physical violence. But this demonstrated the growing antagonisms between on the one side, the unionist, the communists, the black liberationists, and on the other side, white supremacists. Following this event, on July 8, 1979, the KKK held a showing of birthed the nation in China Grove Town Hall, which the CWP showed up

to armed with baseball bats, chanting anti-clan rhetoric outside the town hall, which they had every right to. And the Klan showed up and confronted the CWP armed with guns. The CWP responded by burning a Confederate flag right in front of the clans in his faces. November 3rd March was largely in response to both the incidents. And it was, and they did it, and the CWP did it, hoping to show the clan that the people were not afraid of them. Yeah, absolutely. And so there's multiple sort of of specific conflicts between the CWP and these violent clansmen and their Nazi brethren, et cetera, leading up to this event and showing the birth of the nation is obviously going to be

a huge focal point of any anti-racist struggle. And it's in the South, and everybody has to understand this in the context of the history of the South in particular. I know Malcolm X rightfully said if you're south of the Canadian border, you're in the South, but there's even a finer distinction to be made, and so I think that's important understand as well and just the role that especially the clan played in the south um anybody want to say anything else before we move on to the event itself i just wanted to reiterate that the clan members came from inside the town hall right the clan members that came they were in the town hall like

china grove the city itself was cool with the showing a birth of a nation it was a show up right like they were like oh this my favorite movie like we can watch this type stuff. And the CWP had come from a community member community meeting with the black people of the triad who knew that the movie would be taking place. And they were like, how should we respond to this? And the CWP decided to take a lead and show up at the town hall. Absolutely. So let's go ahead and talk about the event itself. We have a lot of the context, the specific conflicts leading up to it. What was the march itself on November 3rd, 1979, intended to be? about? And how did this CWP sort of imagine the event playing out? So Cam definitely covered this

in that this march, like Cam said, was literally about like fuck the clan. It was that this insurgency of white people just literally straight out, white supremacist literally saying that we don't want race mixing and we don't want black people working in the same jobs as us. And we don't want black people, period, in our communities. And the CWP, who is trying to organize, like, regardless of race lines. Like, they want to organize amongst all different kinds of races, are seeing how this is intimidating people who want to unionize, but who are afraid of the clan. So they decide, okay, we need to plan a march where in which we show the people that we are

not afraid of the clan, that, yes, the clan is hanging up these flyers because they were, The Klan at the time was taking up flyers in black community saying things like, we will kill y'all or we want to kill y'all, things like that. And the CWP wanted to show the community that we as an organization are not afraid of the clan, and you don't have to be afraid of the Klan either. So that's what the intention for the march was about. It was also about getting more black people to join the CWP. So I think a lot of black folks know this, that black people are weary of communists.

because of, you know, how white people have demonized communism to a point where black people don't want to be associated, but also because there's a large sect of Marxists who like to pretend that race is not the most important contradiction in America, that black people are not of the most oppressed, black people and indigenous people. So a lot of black people, when they hear communism, they like, whoa, like, I'm not fucking with that. So the CWP wanted to have an anti-clan rally to specifically, call out the Ku Klux plan because of what they do to black people. And they wanted to use that as a base building point in a black community, which is why they chose Morningside Homes because they wanted to build that community there. And then on top of that, like, you know, this is like the serious, like theory, shit. There was also like a feeling of excitement amongst the CWP members. And if you get on and you look at those videos, you will literally see them, like before all of the violence took place. people smiling, one of the, one of the CWP comrades, I don't want to say their name wrong, but I think I am, Cignai Walker, she brought her child with her. And, you know, she's there. She's pictured there with her child. And she was also talking about how excited she was because up until this point, the CWP was formerly known still as the workers viewpoint organization. So at this rally, they were going to make it known like,

we changed our name and we've reorganized and all these things. We're now the communist workers party. Like they were really excited to let people know that. And so like, you know, there was the serious theory side, but there was also like the hell of excitement. And I just want to build with people and I want to really build a movement where everyone will be held. Everyone will get free and everyone will have rights. Yeah.

So that's really interesting. And I think that's, it really gets to the important aspect of how they envision the march, which was an attempt to build community, to stand up to the fascists and the racist and say that we're not afraid to build worker power, multiracial militant worker power. And it was, you know, attended to simply be a march. So while the rhetoric was certainly heated, it was about marching and showing that, you know,

you're not going to scare us into being silent and you're not going to scare us out of, you know, these working class organizations, et cetera. And so you had pregnant women, you had kids, you had kids, you had, drums. It was a singing. It was almost a festive affair, a peaceful march. And so with all of that in mind and knowing what the actual goal was by the CWP, what happened during that event and how did it tragically end? The demonstrators got to Morningside Homes, a majority black housing community for the rally, a nine-caravan full of white supremacists drove up. The demonstrators began banging on the passing cars, understanding that there are white supremacists inside.

It was not long after the white supremacist jumped out, it began firing on the demonstrators and brought daylight, mind you. They initially grabbed, fire their handguns before going to the back of a caravan and grabbing high-powered rifles and shotguns. A few demonstrators returned fire. William Sampson was one of them, but five of the demonstrators were murdered. Michael Nathan, Caesar Sousa, Sandra Smith, and, like I said, William Sampson. 10 people were injured, including one clansman, so I guess nine people were injured. And the caravan was an FBI informant and an ATF agent and a GPD police photographer.

And so, yeah, they were definitely in the know. Before we add on to that, I wanted to go back and wrap around and say that the CWP expected a confrontation, just not the confrontation they got, nor did they expect the police to be absent for so long. And at the rally on November 1st, where Nelson Johnson was speaking to the clan, he made it very clear to GPD that although the flyers said one location, the march would begin in Morningside homes. And the police knew where the march would take place. And many did not think that it would have taken them so long to get on the scene.

Yeah. Absolutely. So, yeah, as this event is taking off, all these cars pull up, as Cam said, the trunk was popped. and then the bunch of weapons were pulled out, long rifle, shotguns, etc. And they just started shooting indiscriminately into the crowd. Again, a crowd with children present. And in fact, one of the heroes who died, Sandra Smith, was shot as she was coming back out behind

a wall after bringing some children behind the wall, was coming back around the wall to get more kids to take them to safety and was shot by one of the Klansmen or Nazis. All of this, of course, while a member of the ATF was present, And the police knew that this was going down. And I think that leads well into this next question. And it's worth a question of its own to really hone in on this aspect of it because this gets at the heart of what we still see so much of today, how left-wing or black liberationist protest,

even very peaceful ones, are treated as opposed to right-wing, ones with the explicit threat of violence inherent in the organization itself. So as we know, the police played a huge role in this event, both via the informants and they had within the right-wing organizations, which was not only the Klan, but the neo-American Nazi party, as well as in their marked absent, as you mentioned, when things went down. So can you talk a little bit more in depth about the role that the police specifically played in this massacre? Right. So like Cam and Ember both said, and like you just said, Brett, this massacre is another example of why it will always and forever be fuck the police. because whether you do a parade, which is what they did because they got a parade permit or whether you do a protest, when it comes to police intervening on radical folks' behalf, it is never on our behalf.

It is always to our detriment and it's always the intentional purpose of it being to our detriment. So like Amber said, on November 1st, this is two days before the parade was intended to take place. Reverend Nelson Johnson went to go and get the permit and he made it clear before he was a reverend. Before he was a reverend, right. So this is before he was a reverend,

but because I know him as Reverend Nelson Johnson, I'd feel real weird if I didn't say Reverend in front. I'm disrespect to him. Understood it. Understood. But you're right, though, Cam. Like, that's a real important distinction for historical purposes.

Before he was Reverend Nelson Johnson. Reverend Nelson Johnson. went and got the permit. And he made it clear to GPD that our flyer, I think it was Windsor Holmes. Y'all can fact check me if, because I'm not sure. But it was something like that.

It started with a W for sure. He was like, although on the flyer, it says that Windsor Holmes, we will begin in the morning side homes. When you look through the documents, you will literally see where Reverend Nelson Johnson said this. Like it's in police documents.

It's in the truth and reconciliation council's reports. The police knew. exactly where this event was going to take place. On top of that, while Reverend Nelson Johnson is outside, like talking his shit, talking about how awful the clan is and how it's important that the CWP and other folks stand up to them and call them out on their cowardice, there was a person in the audience who people say they saw taking notes. And we later find out that this is Eddie Dawson, who is the GPD's police informant

within the KKK. So following Reverend Nelson Johnson's wrap, and after the press conference is over, Eddie walks inside of GPD and literally asks for a copy of the parade permit. GPD don't ask no questions. They don't ask on why he wants the permit. What does he plan to do with it? They don't ask none of that. They just give him the permit. So now they know this KKK member has the parade permit.

On top of that, days following, Eddie makes it clear to GKK. that we plan, we're planning to violently attack this demonstration, this parade, we plan to attack it. GPD knew they weren't worried about it. And in fact, they decided that they wanted to take a quote unquote low profile at the parade. And right. And they justify that by basically saying that CWP is already anti-police. So our presence there will enrage. them inside violence. That was like one of their like bullshit excuses. So on top of that, so we have

Eddie Dawson as GPD informant, but then we also have an ATF informant and even an FBI informant if I'm right. I'm all right, I think you're right. Yes, you're right. Okay. And even FBI informant who are all infiltrated the KKK and also the neo-Nazis. So yeah. And so basically on the day of the Mark, you have a GPD police car that is following the caravan that came from outside of Greensboro that was going inside Greensboro for the sole purpose of shooting up this event. You have a police car that is following the caravan. And once the caravan gets the morning side homes, instead of the police car going to intervene, they literally parked like 20 away from the caravan, call for backup, and watch the shit go down. They just watch the shit go down. And, yeah, and I also know that following, once the police, oh, and then there was another group of police officers.

So as was already made clear, they knew where the parade was going to start, but they conveniently pretended the day of they thought it was going to happen in Windsor Holmes. Windsor Center, actually. There we go. Windsor Center. They pretended that it was going to go down there. And so that's where they pull up. They pull up to Windsor Center. And they all like, oh, where's the Mars trying to act all confused or whatever? And that causes, they say that's what caused them such a delay of getting there.

But mind you, there's a police car that's certainly like 20 feet away, whatever. So once the police finally get there, they start arresting folks, but who do they arrest? They arrest people from the CWP. And they even charge who was not the Reverend then, but I know as Reverend Nelson Johnson, with inciting a riot. And Reverend Nelson Johnson says that he was treated, of course, more brutally than any people that got locked up because he was a black man. Yeah, absolutely. And the reactionaries, the violent fascist, neo-Nazis, they all got away. It was all on videotape, which we're going to talk about in a second with the jury. The police at the federal level, whether it's the ATF and the FBI or just the ATF, at the federal level and at the local sheriff's level, had people that were basically infiltrators, although, you know, for all of American history, when the state infiltrates white supremacist organizations,

of them infiltrators is a little odd. It's more like they're indistinguishable from accomplices and they never acted whatsoever to stop the bloodshed or to warn anybody about it or to do anything that a state was supposed to do. So I think, you know, their accomplices in this context. So they knew all of these things. The petition was submitted. The CWP got the permission from the local government to do it and in documents showed where the whole thing was going to take place. There is absolutely no excuse. that the cops can come up with for why they did not intervene. They knew what was going to happen, and they allowed it to happen,

and after it happened, they came in to brutally beat the people who were victimized by the racist violent attack, stepping on heads, people ripping people that were trying to help other people who were wounded, ripping them away to brutalize and handcuff them. People had already started calling the police, but they took their time. about coming because when they got there everybody was dead

I think it was calculated that it took them 15 minutes or more just to cross the street just to cross the street and it was almost as if they wanted to come to a scene where they were already dead

because there was no need in in and, you know, any ambulances at that point. You know, you just call the morgue for them to just come pick up the bodies because that's what eventually, you know, took place. Just a disgusting display of the state at the federal and local level teaming up with the Klan and the Nazis to brutalize innocent human beings. So anybody have anything to add before we move on to the fallout?

GPD is not in cahoots with the KKK. GPD is the KKK. There you go. There you go. Actually, historically, yeah. There have been quite a few people revealed in the last decade to have been in high positions of the KKK within the GPD. And literally in this event, literally in this event, it certainly was the case. Yeah.

And that's another thing with the informant. They try to say that, well, the. informants couldn't do anything because they're undercover. So if they would have been like, no, we shouldn't do this. Then their coverage would have been blown. But when you look at the documents, a lot of the KKK members say that Eddie Dawson was the one that organized the event. Yeah, like even the Grand Wizard.

Like when you look at the documents, the Grand Wizard of the KKK says Eddie Dawson is the one that organized this event. Exactly. And Eddie Dawson had been on the payroll for so long. And he got paid, I think, $200,000 for his role as an FBI informant overall. Absurd. Well, let's go ahead and move into a discussion about the fallout from the massacre. And I was hoping you could talk a little bit maybe about the funeral for the CWP members

and how that galvanized elements of the community. But importantly, talk about what happened legally to the people, again, who were videotaped, pulling out guns and firing on and killing innocent people. The longest part of talking will be about the funeral, because legally, there's not a lot talk about. Despite all the video evidence being partially recorded by a few different TV crews, despite there being no mystery about which white supremacists fired shots and killed demonstrators, not a single one of the 14 Klansmen and Nazis were found guilty in criminal trials. God damn.

Only in a civil trial that took place later where members of the GPD found, quote, jointly liable with white supremacists for the wrongful death of one victim. I'd also like to remind people that the on-side arrests that were made at the event were made against the demonstrators attempting to render aid to their following comrades. But we can move on to the funeral because that one is actually pretty interesting. So for the funeral, the CWP announced a march. While processions did not require a pertinent, the CWP reached an agreement with city officials that would allow them to have an armed honor guard accompanying the caskets if the weapons remained unloaded. The weekend of the march, a city official in Greensboro declared a state of emergency. So the GPD planned roadblocks called in 500 National Guard troops and 400 extra officers.

The funeral planning even caused some tensions within the black community of Greensboro. One very notable instance was Reverend Frank Williams of New Jerusalem Baptist Church. At the time, told, wasn't Reverend back then, but Reverend right now, Nelson Johnson, not to come through Morningside on Sunday and Reverend Frank Williams said, quote, the community did not want this last week

and they do not want it Sunday. Despite all that, November 11th, 1 p.m., some 200 to 400 people had assembled for the procession. It was a cold and rainy day and the mood was very somber, despite the fact that many marchers

were attempting to sing songs. Police officers lined the route, clad in riot gear as they like to do. When the procession hit Market Street, hundreds of National Guardsmen were waiting in the field. The march ended at Maplewood Cemetery, and for folks who are uninitiated with how Greensboro is, Maplewood Cemetery is a traditionally black cemetery.

As were four of the five victims who were white were buried, and the only black victim, Sandra Smith, was returned to be buried in their hometown of South Carolina. So there was literally more of a police presence at the funeral than there was at the actual event that cause the funeral. Exactly. More of a police presence and a National Guard presence at the funeral than there was at the actual event. So it shows you who the state will mobilize and protect. Right. And aside from that civil suit, there were two legal trials. So there was two chances

to hold these people, again, on videotape doing it, accountable. All white juries completely found them not guilty and let them walk. Not guilty. Yeah. So you had the racist justice system, the racist police system, the racist media who no doubt echoed the police's line throughout the events, all teaming up against this group of people who just wanted basic equality and wanted to show that they're not going to be coward by fascist bullies in their own community. So that speaks volumes again about the entire society that we live in. And it also echoes, you know, many different events, of course. you could point hundreds events throughout American history, but a recent event in Charlottesville.

Another situation in the South where neo-Nazi violence largely went unpunished. There was the person who drove the car through a crowd of innocent people who is in jail, but there are numerous cases of white supremacists, clans, Nazi members, beating, brutalizing, intimidating, committing multiple crimes, firing weapons into the crowd, etc. and a few of them had any accountability, much less the forms that they would deserve. So this is a reoccurring pattern, of course. Is there anything else that anybody would like to say before we talk about the impact that this has had and maybe some lessons we can pull from this?

I just think it's worth reminding people this took place in 1979 well after what folks would describe as the quote unquote civil rights movement. These people are still alive and in our community, like we're not disconnected from it. Yeah. I saw a news report of one of the daughters of the men who were killing people that day saying that we talk about the Greensboro Massacre too much and that it puts the family members of the clans, clansmen and American Nazis in danger because the communists are going to come back and killed and harmed the children or something like that. I saw that too. It was such free actionary bullshit, but it's amazing how these folks think. Yeah, I saw that exact same one. And not only was she the daughter of one of the people that did it,

she married another member of the Nazi party for 20 years. And she's saying, please stop talking about this because it makes me feel uncomfortable when you do. Amazing. What that's funny? Yeah. I feel me not bad for being a white supremacist. My girl. What the fun?

This woman says the children and grandchildren of Nazis and Klansmen who carried out the Greensboro Mass her, live in fear today every time that story is back in the news. All I remember is Cardinal telling me to run, and I started running, and then I heard shots. Dee, who asked that we not reveal her identity, says she was 14 years old when her family then associated with Klansmen and Nazis brought her to the Greensboro protest. 40 years later, she says she wants the events of that day to go away. I'm coming to you because of the children that was involved that has to live with this. We live with it every day.

And I don't understand why they want to keep bringing it up after almost 40 years. Because we've moved on in our lives. I mean, the people that did this horrible crime, they're no longer here. They're dead or that they've moved on. Dee says she went on to marry one of the Nazis involved in the massacre, a man known as Cardinal. A man she divorced more than 20 years ago. Now in her mid-50s, Dee says she has abandoned the beliefs held by Nazis and Klansmen years ago, but says those groups remain active today in the triad.

Do you feel threatened today? Yes, I do. From who? Where is this threat coming from? There's just one still living that I know of, and he's alive and doing well as far as I know. And he's a former Nazi? Yes, Nazi. Or is he still a Nazi? He's still a Nazi.

he'll be a Nazi till the day he dies. All right, so let's go ahead and think about the conclusion of this conversation. And I want to talk about the impact on the community. So how did this event impact Greensboro and North Carolina more broadly? And have there been organizing efforts since the massacre to remember this event and those who were slain? Yeah, the Greensboro Massacre had a tremendous negative impact on the community and has stunned and, like, stunted a lot. of people politically. I will say that it affected the folks of Morningside Homes the most because it was their community that was under direct attack by white supremacists and by GPD as well. I would go so

far to say that it still affects organizing efforts in Greensboro. Today, it is difficult to organize in Greensboro like coalitions and like parties come together and fall apart so easily. and radical elements are snuffed out here in Greensboro quickly and they are co-opted for some neoliberal city council-backed bullshit like in the summer we will be protesting you know what happens each summer there's protests because another black person is murdered by the state the first few days there's radical people they want change they know like people know what's up people know that black people are being murdered

And then the next few days, there's a group of people who are backed by the city council. The city council likes them. They've sat down with the city council. They are being escorted by GPD, a protest against the police being escorted and driven around by GPD. So I will say that organizing here has become very hard because the black community and the communists were hit the most. and people are afraid. Also, to speak on the Greensboro Massacre being commemorated, it was commemorated on the 25th anniversary by local citizens and activists,

particularly by the beloved community. Shout out to the beloved community. The church was co-founded by Rev Nelson Johnson and his wife, Joyce Johnson, and the Greensboro Truth and Reconciliation Commission for, all the shortcomings did undercover a lot of information the GPD and others have repressed. This is Democracy Now. I'm Amy Goodman. Hundreds gathered this weekend to mark the 40th anniversary of the Greensboro massacre when 40 Ku Klux Klanzman and American Nazis opened fire on an anti-clan demonstration in Greensboro, North Carolina. Over the span of 88 seconds, the clan and Nazis

shot dead five anti-racist activists who are members of the Communist Workers Party. Ten other activists were injured. No one was convicted in the massacre, but a jury did find the Greensboro Police liable for cooperating with the KKK and a wrongful death. This is a clip from the documentary The Guns of November 3rd by Jim Waters, a news camera person who was on the scene and filmed that day. A warning to our television viewers, some of this is graphic. We can take our country back from the Communist Party. We can take it back from the niggers. It's time for us to ban together.

If we're out to get in the streets and fighting blood up to our knees, by God, it's time to get ready to fight. Give them what they want. Fight for this country. Yes, good, right. Yes, good at that. They have to do it. Let's go ahead. Oh, Jesus.

Help us. Hold on. Robinson. They had it planned. Come on, go, abandon. Help us, help us. Help us. Help us.

Since we get in the animal, let's get them right here. The plan and the state got together and planned this. That's why they were not so cocky. Do you hear me? The state protects the clan, and this makes it clear. They came through and they opened fire. They opened fire on us. And we fired back to protect ourselves.

The clan or whoever was jumped out and just started shooting in the direction of the thickest concentration. of people. They seem to be aiming at particular people. There were several police in the area who did nothing until after these murderers left, police came in immediately started arresting people who were trying to help those who had fallen. Nelson Johnson Johnson, you know, was taken in the custody, kicked in the head by the police. He was bleeding from the arm as he was trying to help people. I mean, the police did this directly or indirectly. They set it up.

Images and sounds of the 1979 Greensboro Massacre from the Jim Waters documentary, The Guns of November 3rd. Local pastors in Greensboro are now calling on the city council to issue an apology for the events that led to the 1979 murders. What lessons can revolutionaries today learn from this event in any of your opinions? Black people are always under attack, like, globally and under this settler colonial state. And it's best not to bring the heat to black communities. The CWP had good intentions. They were in an organization that believed in revolution, but perhaps they believed in revolution before the masses were ready. I say this with all respect to the victims living and deceased.

there are lessons to be learned. Also, we must remember that the settler colonial state will stop at nothing to kill and destroy. Without knowing this, we will blame the CWP for the deaths rather than the white supremacist settler colony that we live in. I want to say that community education and radicalization should be the first thing on your list as an organizer. It is our job. It is our duty to get people there. And any misunderstanding or misdirected analysis falls on us organizers before anything revolutionary can take place, the people must be armed with revolutionary knowledge. Any plugs, any recommendations, anything you want to let the audience know before we wrap up?

Yeah, all right. So our Twitter, GSOPFA, that's where we post the most. You can like keep up with the work we're doing and new work that we're going to be doing. Our link tree is in our bio of all of our org social media accounts. We're on Twitter. We're on Facebook. Run that link tree up. We do need funds to continue serving Greensboro. I'd like to shout out a triad SRA. We've been partnered with Triad SRA doing mutual aid since we split. They understand that the revolution will be black and indigenous led and there are comrades. A large chunk of our members are also a part of Tri-SRA. They do really good work. They use their funds to support us and to help us to make sure that weeds have enough supplies to hand out. We just do good

work together. And shout out to the Beloved Community Center. Their website isbelovenic Community Center.org. Rev. Nelson, a survivor of the Greensboro Massacre and his wife co-founded it. The beloved community center preaches black liberation theology, which I think is amazing. It's a community where black people support black people. They were very instrumental in helping

Marcus Dion Smith's family, the house is black man that was murdered by GPD in 2018, get legal resources to fight the city and GPD. And I would just like to say rest in power Marcus Dion Smith. Absolutely. Beautifully said, I will link to the Triad SRA, the PFA, and the Beloved Community Center in the show notes so people can go support and learn more about those wonderful organizations and how they work together to serve the needs of the people in that community.

Thank you all three so much for coming on discussing this historically essential event and sharing your knowledge and your kindness with my audience. And you're always welcome back to do this again sometime. Thank you so much, Brett. Thank you for platforming us. I really love your show. I'm super, I feel super, like, great about doing this tonight and just giving our workspace, especially following, like, all of the things. So I really appreciate that.

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Because everything that's happened in the motherland They try to hide with time Like a clock at midnight's hour hand corruption In the government The terror law from tyrants Indigenous people back home subject of violence When 45 is dying And they don't believe in science

My community is dying And we still ain't get no guidance Well all of y'all focused on Asian representation I'm yelling brown lives Black lives liberation Because how's it gonna help If they look like you Representing you

But they move like colonizers do So fuck it if you're likable I'd rather us cypher What we built to fight the power Bam, I'm lighted too What we gotta do to make you listen I mean what we gotta do to make you listen I mean what else we got to do to make you listen

I mean what we got to do to make you listen What we got to do to make you listen I mean what else we gotta do to make you listen I mean what can we do to make you listen What can we do to make you listen Somebody took me but no they don't get me so I guess I'm another victim of the