Rev Left Radio - The Pandemic in Prisons: Covid-19, Repression, and the Carceral State

Episode Date: October 5, 2020

Lou, Kylie, and Nicole join Breht to discuss the state of incarcerated people during this pandemic, the horrific conditions within prisons, and the case of Just - who was unjustly targeted and imprisoned, and now faces repression inside prison for their journalism and truth-telling.  Check out Sunset Park Popular Assembly HERE Check out #PrisonsKill on Twitter HERE Check out the Incarcerated Workers Organizing Committee HERE and IWOC's Insta page HERE Check out our episode DON'T TALK TO COPS HERE Please Support Rev Left Radio HERE Outro Music: 'Bootlickers (Burn Baby Burn)' by Mr. Muthafuckin' eXquire LEARN MORE ABOUT REV LEFT RADIO: www.revolutionaryleftradio.com

The following recording is Just, who is a political prisoner, jailhouse journalist, and the main subject of this interview, discussing the lockdown put in place by the Federal Bureau of Prisons and the reaction of prisoners to the murder of George Floyd and the historic uprisings that occurred in its wake. I saw it related to the state's response to the protests and uprisings more generally. So it was collective punishment, the same way that the curfews were collective punishment, the same way. way that, you know, the tear gassed outside and the attacking of protests and the Kedlin and the mass arrest, the same way that was collective punishment. This recent lockdown was all connected to that, you know, because we're all part of that struggle. We're all part of that movement. I'm in a prison in Jessup, Georgia, which is

Southern Georgia, okay? This is a couple towns down from where Ahmaud Arbery went for, a job for the last time. This is right outside that city, you know, and after the uprising started, you know, the consciousness of the people here started to shift as well.

It was as if the uprisons gave the people here a lot of energy and a lot of hope, you know. We were locked down, you know, we're locked down for the majority of the day. And for that period, for that short period of time, you know, we were, you know,

we were locked in ourselves for all day long, you know. But even during that period, you would have people chanting, represent for George Floyd, chanting, Black Lives Matter, chanting, I can't breathe, you know what I mean? And it was almost like a festive atmosphere, you know, watching what was going on on CNN and listening to it on NPR. You know, those are really the only news sources we have. Right. And, you know, being able to connect it to what's going on outside, you know, it was really a beautiful moment where, like, you know,

the first day of that new lockdown, almost everybody in the unit refused their trees, you know. And everybody was banging on doors shouting, Black Lives Matter, I can't breathe, you know. And, of course, other things are, other, other things went into that, you know what I'm saying? That's for the reasons for that, you know, but it was, the, what was going on outside definitely, like, definitely energized the whole lot of people, you know, who aren't even really, who don't even usually really talk about that kind of stuff. But now people were having discussions on the police, you know, discussions of the police, you know, discussions of the people. about the state discussions about racism, you know. And so, yeah, generally speaking, like, it had a very, the uprisons in particular had a very electric effect on the people here, you know.

And that's solely because this is our struggle, and that's solely because, and that's the reason why they locked this down, B-O-P-Y, you know, because if stuff like that happened here, it happened in other facilities you know the situation with George Floyd you know was a straw that broke the camel's back you know yeah it wasn't just it's not just about George Floyd you know it's about all these other conditions it's about it's about the disproportionate you know deaths related to COVID-19 you know it's about and that also really is the prison you know because you know

And a lot of prisons, they're just leaving people to death, you know. And another way about how this is all connected is, you know, and how we understand that. It's just the state violence that prisons are, you know. People, you know, the listening audience to DAA, I'm sure, has heard of the murder of Jamel Floyd, you know. Yeah. And so that's a reality, you know.

So it's something that we can all relate. to you know every time this stuff happens you know hello everybody and welcome back to revolutionary left radio on today's episode i interview lou and kiley from the sunset park popular assembly and nicole who is a family member of just who was arrested as a teenager on trumped-up charges they talked just into saying things on on record on recording they gave just money to quote unquote give to the cause etc you'll learn about the details throughout this interview but we use that example to then zoom out and talk about the conditions in prisons generally the repression the unsafe of these prisons the behavior of corrections officers

in these prisons and you know really i want you to keep in mind just how rotten how evil how anti-human prisons in this country really are and then think about those prisons under the context of COVID and you can just get an idea of how horrific these people are treated inside these cages and at the end importantly we let you know how you can help directly help you don't have to be in an organization you don't have to be anything other than a human being that has a heart and wants to help and we set out some specific concrete ways that you can really help just their family and the overall movement towards abolition, towards holding these prisons accountable for how they treat human beings.

My name's Nicole. I'm a family member of Just, who is a federal prisoner and jailhouse journalist. They're currently being silenced by the FBOP for speaking out during the COVID pandemic. They founded a Twitter page with a fellow activist at IWalk. called hashtag prisons kill, and they give a voice to the voiceless inside. Prisoners are able to share their stories and tell stories of people who have been lost to the violence of the prison system. Hi, I'm Kylie, and I work with Sunset Assembly and MDC organizing. I'm Lou.

I'm also part of Sunset Assembly and been doing organizing against MDC that much called the Detention Center. and I've also done some, been a part of some groups that do anti-repression work for people arrested in the street at demos and protests. Wonderful. Well, it's an honor and a pleasure to have all of you on to talk about this really important and timely topic and situation. So to start off, could you maybe give me and my listeners some background information on Just and the kind of repression that they have faced? Yeah, absolutely. So Just's story starts. God, it's been. I think six years now, six years since they've been in the prison system, but it's been longer than that even. So just when they were about 16 years old, joined a local mosque. They just sought out

community and they really found it in a bunch of really great people at this mosque. Unfortunately, not everybody was a good person, specifically one person, a man that they met, again, when they were 16, who was pretty much a wolf in sheep's clothing. He saw just as vulnerable and purposely groomed them to pretty much join a quote-unquote terrorist organization. This person turned out to be an undercover NYPD operative who was very far out of their jurisdiction. This was happening on Long Island. And he pretty much groomed just who was a teenager to be the person they wanted just to be. So this went on for about two years. They got just to say things on recording. They took just lunch money every single day to give to the

quote cause. And then when they finally turned 18, they helped just get a passport. They helped just purchased a ticket to Yemen. At this point, Just had never actually spoken to, you know, a bad guy, I guess you could say. There was nobody actually in any foreign terrorist organization that Just was working with. It was just NYPD operatives. So they got their big sting of this 18-year-old kid when they arrested Just at JFK. They were put into the prison system at that point. They were not allowed to speak to any of us in their family. They were given a public defender and pretty much told to plead guilty or else they would spend the rest of their life in prison.

So that started back when they were 18. They entered the prison system. They were in MDC. They ended up just pleading guilty so they could get 13 years instead of that life sentence. They refused to cooperate, but they still ended up getting that 13, 13 year sentence. which I guess is better than the life that they were promised. And ever since then, they've just been really outspoken in the prison system. They spent four years at MDC getting more and more involved in activism

with all of the absolute horrors that they experienced in MDC and saw people experience there. They were moved to a couple different places and now they're in FCI Jessup where they recently experienced this COVID outbreak and decided to speak out against what was happening. They founded that prisons kill Twitter page with another activist and started telling the stories of what was going on. The prison didn't like that and took revenge on them by silencing them

and putting them in solitary confinement. Absolutely horrifying. And we know, especially at that time after 9-11, the absolutely predatory nature of law enforcement with regards to young, vulnerable, and powerless people trying to capture them, get them on tape saying, something and really throw their lives away just so that they could pad their quota or rise up in their career or get a win or whatever it may be. So it's absolutely horrifying. Is there anything else

that anybody would want to add before we move on to the next question? I think just something we've talked about is just like making that connection to the policing that's happening now and particularly in the rise of all the uprising since the murder of George Boyd that the police just using these tactics of really not telling people their rights. And, like, for example, being told to plead guilty or spend the rest of your life in prison, how those sorts of tactics is just a really big form of oppression and gets people who are particularly can be targeted at people who are organizing or obviously black and brown communities. But just seeing that in the uprising now, how the police are, you know, they don't tell people their rights or come and knock on people's doors and get them to give information that can incriminate themselves and others in movements, making that connection. action. Yeah, absolutely. And we have an old episode on Rev. Left called Don't Talk to Cops, wherein I lay out all the different ways that talking to cops at all can get you into deep trouble,

even if you are completely innocent. And I'll link to that in the show notes so people can spread that around, you know, their organizations or their little circles. So people can stay safe because you're right. The way that they go about it, cops have no law against lying to you. They can, they can deceive you, they can betray you, they can lie about who they are, they can lie about why they're there. They have no scruples or any legal accountability when it comes to telling you the truth, and they often take full advantage of that and are incredibly deceitful to people and really prey upon people. So I'll link that in the show notes as an extra resource for anybody that's interested. But moving on, what have the conditions inside the Bureau of Prisons been like since the beginning

of the pandemic? At the beginning of the pandemic, they were on 21-hour lockdown. They would be out every three days a week to shower, use the phone, use the email, but only for an hour. So sometimes they'd have to make a decision if they wanted to shower or speak to their loved ones. And sometimes they could only do one. If they were lucky, they would be able to do both. The lines where the phones were really long because of this. So there were a lot of altercations, a lot of fights happening. Now they are on, their lockdown is, I think, I believe it started today, but they're being let out every other day only for one hour. So again, that only gives you time to shower or use your email. In the beginning, there were a lot of COs not coming

into work. So the National Guard was called in and they were acting as the COs, which was pretty crazy. That's horrifying. They sent in federal agents to replace corrections officers. I can add, just speaking about Jessup, it's so similar. I mean, all of these prisons, especially within the SBOP, have such similar stories throughout COVID, just some additional things that I know just experienced down there. They kept commissary closed pretty much throughout the entire pandemic, so they couldn't buy hygiene products, food.

stamps to write home with, and their communication was already being so limited because of the lockdown and those long lines to get to the phone when they were actually let out. They were given a mask in April and didn't get new ones until I think this summer, and the guard didn't even wear masks anyway. They still had guards down in FCI Jessif. I don't think they experienced the National Guard coming in, which is horrifying in and of itself. But those guards totally didn't take the pandemic seriously, didn't wear masks, then would kind of joke about, you know, how, oh, well, if they bring it in, who cares, really? People who were taking college correspondence courses, just as one of them weren't allowed to continue because they closed the

education department, even though that's all done by mail. So you really don't need to do that. And then I know just kind of described the meals during that lockdown as pretty much child-sized. So when you couple that with the commissary being closed as well, these guys were starving every day. There was nothing to eat and not the normal access that they're used to, which is already not great. So it hasn't been easy down there. And I think it's starting to get a little bit better. But they just opened up visiting hours. But I know the people who are in solitary for just, like just, I should say, are not allowed to have visitors.

so they're still just completely cut off from the world. American prisons have always been bastions of human rights violations, but certainly during COVID, it is not by all an overstatement to say that they are absolute bastions of multiple human rights violations stacked on top of one another. I just wanted to add to that in terms of knowing the conditions, and this is obviously this is not just during COVID, but how difficult it is to get information about what's going to.

on because when people do, you know, try to share how much the mail is censored. And I know when IWAC kind of, and particularly even more censored for people who are politicized inside or doing organizing inside. And so I know that in the beginning of the pandemic, when IWAC had sent in letters to people inside at multiple facilities, they refused to, that were kind of asking questions about the conditions and whether they were receiving math, and cleaning supplies and soap, and a lot of those things got sent back, and we refused that information because it was obviously not wanting to get that information out there, how how terrible the conditions are.

Yeah, absolutely disgusting. What kinds of organizing have you and your loved ones inside been able to do to respond to these horrific conditions? We could start off by just sharing about the organizing we've been doing in Sunset Park. The Sunset Assembly is a popular assembly that is really lots of people in the neighborhood. And we basically, there was a group that came together because MDC is in the neighborhood about organizing, and particularly the assembly started meeting weekly a little bit right before COVID. So during COVID or when it really started happening, we people in the neighborhood really wanted

to organize to support people inside MDC. and so because of knowing about the BOP lockdown that Kylie mentioned before. So we started doing demos outside, noise demos outside of MDC, where, which, you know, there's already a history of people doing them at other prisons and especially outside of MDC the year before when there wasn't heat, but making noise outside so people inside know that they're not alone. And the people at the prison who work there know that there are people outside who care and who are watching. But so people were coming outside, we were making noise outside, and then often coinciding that with the phones app, where we would call in to make demands about the conditions.

So that's like kind of a lot of building began there. And then we've also started holding up a banner with a phone number so people inside can call and we can start building relationships and hearing more about the conditions and trying to figure out how to organize together inside and out. but phones apps have been one of the main tactics and the noise demos to sort of build and also against the conditions of the lockdown. Yeah, absolutely essential organizing efforts. Would anybody else like to talk about the efforts that you're putting forward? I can also just add that for just specifically, IWOC has been amazing. I mean, IWalk has just been a lifeline for our family, I can say.

And IWalk has put on a number of different phone zaps, specifically for the repression that Justice is facing at FCI Jessup. There's been, God, I feel like there's been a dozen at this point since Justice has been put in solitary in August. And there will be more coming up, I know. But these phone zaps are just resulting in hundreds, if not thousands of calls a day to the prison. And it just has said themselves that it really does work. they were released briefly from solitary back in at the end of August until the prison found a new reason to to a completely fabricated reason to put them back into solitary but it definitely works and the more people that we can get to join in it the more effective it is yeah you have to shine

a light on them and put pressure on them or they have no incentive whatsoever to basically be decent human beings and and treat the people inside as such and for those that don't know. I know most of my listeners do, but IWalk is, of course, short for incarcerated workers organizing committee, and I will link to that in the show notes of this episode. Anything else to add before we move on to the next question? One other thing I'll just add is that Justice and their partner at Prisons Kill has nonstop in sounding the alarm about what's happening, not only at at CI Jessup, but around the country at all of these prisons, NBC, all of them, and just boosting prisoners' voices across the country during this crazy COVID pandemic where they're

facing so much repression. And of course, another thing that you can do no matter where you live is, you know, start a pen pal relationship with folks inside prison, specifically during this time when there is lots of lockdowns, people are pushed into their cell. And we've known from past episodes and previous experience that the people inside that don't have any outside connections are often the ones that can be taken advantage of and treat it even worse. And so when police and corrections officers inside know that you have strong and solid connections with people on the outside, it can make a big difference in how they treat individual prisoners. So that's just something to think about. But what sort of challenges have you had in this organizing? Has there been

any backlash, for example? What are some obstacles you've come across? So I can say that after Just reported on the COVID conditions, as we mentioned previously, they were put in solitary confinement to silence them almost immediately. The prison was monitoring their mail and their phone calls and their email as they normally do. And they didn't like being exposed for what they were doing to people on the inside side. So Just has been in solitary for the bulk of the last two months. My family has been cut off from them almost completely. They're able to call us about once a month, if that.

And we know that their mail is being censored. Their mail is being delayed. They don't have access to phones, visitation, like I mentioned before. They're being told now that they're being transferred, and that's why they're being held in solitary still because they have to, quote, unquote, quarantine, even though they've been in solitary for two months. So they're pretty much there indefinitely right now.

We're also experiencing them not getting their, medication on time. And we're not able to monitor that to make sure that they are getting their medication. So just has a rare disease that requires precise medication in a timely matter and they need lab testing to follow it up. And we have no idea if they're missing a dose. The prison isn't good at giving them their medicine on a normal day, let alone during COVID and let alone while they're being punished and repressed in solitary. So it's crazy not knowing what's going on with them. But that's why we need to be relentless

and making sure the prison knows that we're watching. Absolutely. And I hope this episode helps amplify the message and in a second we'll let listeners know what they can do to support this effort. Is there anything else that either other person would like to add to this before we move on to that final question?

They've definitely been holding mail. There was a point in time where they would not let them use the phone out of fear that they would reach out to the media. which was really hard for those of us who have loved ones there because, you know, we're sending letters and they're not getting the letters. We're not hearing from them. So we don't know if they're well. We don't know if they're alive.

And I myself have called MDC to do a wellness check and they wouldn't even ask for the name. They just say, he's fine and would hang up. So that wasn't, you know, really assuring. And we've created a Facebook page for. family and friends of people who are incarcerated at MDC. And it's been a little tough to kind of get the page out there because MDC is a holding jail. It's not, you know, most people don't do the majority of their time there. That's just for people who are usually going back and forth to court or who have really short sentences.

So it's really hard, you know, to reach these family members. but I feel as though that it's a great place for people, you know, to connect and kind of be able to communicate, especially when you can't hear from your loved ones, you know, if someone posts on the page, hey, they're on lockdown, it'll kind of be comforting to someone who hasn't heard from their loved one in a while. So, absolutely. To add on to that, I think we've been finding trouble when we've been doing the phones apps, kind of who the most, the best target is for the demand.

we're making and just I think the power of those phones apps is that you're getting a lot of people to call in a small amount of time. But I think it seems more challenging for them to respond if we're talking about the general conditions rather than necessarily about a specific person. They can just sweep it under the rug. And so when we call, for example, the warden, they'll just say, oh, well, we're following DOP. We can't really do anything. But on the other hand, some of the things we're calling about are very specific to, you know, things. that are just like give more give new masks or cleaning supplies that are very specific to their conditions that they just ignore or we won't even get to speak to someone beyond the operator

and then we've called the like um i think the regional leader like director i'm not sure um they also will just kind of disregard us so it's it's hard to figure out um just who to who to direct the phones ups to and how effective they are even it's a way to let them know they're being watched but when we're not calling about a specific person we're finding it easier for them to just ignore that and then I think yeah again with also just one thing with when we're kind of communicating with people as as sunset assembly is really wanting how much you can communicate about like the political aspect of you know trying to build together in terms of like censorship as you're communicating, so wanting to be able to build relationships and kind of on the basis

of being honest that we want to organize and support organizing against MDC, but it's tricky because we don't want to be sharing, you know, saying anything that could increase repression for them inside, but also wanting to, you know, let them know that we're here to help support whatever organizing they want or what people want to, you know, what their conditions are and how to support bettering those conditions. Another thing to add is that when we, when we were doing the noise demos outside of MDC, Jamel Floyd, somebody, he was inside MDC and he was murdered by a CEO. They claimed that it was a heart attack.

It was basically not the case. and his family started coming out to MDC calling for justice. A couple of politicians came at first to do like a, you know, get press about it and then really disregarded supporting them. But since we were already out there doing these noise demos, we were able to connect to Jamel's loved ones and really support his family and demanding justice from the, from MDC. literally were found out about his death through somebody posted it online that the prison has literally never contacted them other than I think they eventually got a letter in the mail saying that he died and they're claiming that it was no fault of their own even though it was definitely a murder by the COs so they are really in the fight for justice for him and also

knew that the conditions at MDC are really horrible and have really wanted they feel really passionate about organizing against the lockdowns and against the conditions inside. So his mom, she said she wants to be out there every Friday at 6 until there's justice. They're waiting for the autopsy, which MDC is being very slow about. So that's, I think, while it's horrible, one of the things that I think about with this organizing around COVID is that a lot more people are, we're able to make these connections. and support movements against MDC and support people in actually really forming a movement and trying to demand justice in times where maybe it would be hard to get a lot of people

together. But yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Here is Just discussing how Mumia Abu Jamal inspires him and his prison activism. More to the point, your words have not only taught me facts, they've inspired me. They moved me to put words on people myself until I found that not only did I love writing, but I was good at it, that whatever deficits I may have in speech, I made up through my pen. I discovered in writing joy, a release from trauma, and more importantly, purpose, passion. I decided that I, too, wanted to be a voice for the voice, and so I began to document all the wrongs and oppressions I was witnessing from the time.

time when I had no audience at a detention center in Brooklyn to date when I had the years of prison abolitionists and a space on WBAI. Brother Moo, you encourage me to become a jailhouse journalist, and I will always consider you to be a role model, not just for myself, but for all freedom-loving people. So with all of that said and all that information on the table, this is the important part. What can our listeners do to help support this important and essential effort? What What can people listening right now do to help, to help you all out? First and foremost, I think supporting those future BOP phones app or IWOC putting on is so important. The more people we have, the better of course.

And listeners can stay up to date with that by following either at IWalk underscore NYC on Twitter or just prisons kill page, which I mentioned before, which is at Prisons Kill. during those phones apps for Just specifically, we're demanding that they continue to receive their medicine and their treatment on time and that they be transferred closer to home. They're in Georgia right now and their family is all in New York and that they're actually allowed access to phones and email regularly and that their censorship of their mail ends as well. And then as you mentioned before, letters are just lifeline. So if anybody can take the time out to write them a letter, send them prints out of

articles or books they're not allowed to have books in solitary right now so we've been sending them printouts of articles and just bits of books that we can they would definitely appreciate it it it doesn't matter if you don't know them or not they would love to hear from you and their contact information can be found on that prisons kill Twitter page as well perfect yeah and I'll link to all of that in the show notes to make it as easy and simple for people to help out and this is something you know regardless of who you are what your limitations are whether or not you're an organization. This is something simple but concrete that everybody listening to my voice right now can do to help this family and this individual and really add your energy into the movement

toward abolition because these prisons are, as I said earlier, bastions of human rights violations and we want to build a world where people aren't locked in cages, period. And that's a long protracted historical struggle, but these are concrete steps that you can take in the here and now to make a difference in somebody's life. So I would urge any people, listening to this right now to please do this and I will make it as easy as possible to get to those resources in the show notes. But is there anything else that anybody wants to say before we close this discussion? Just to add on to what she said, you know, we do encourage everyone to join us with the phone zaps to BOP. It's done on Fridays. We really just, we need

the support because we want them to have the unlimited access to the phone calls, the free phone calls, A lot of the, most of the facilities actually have started visitations back. The O.P posted that visits were to start on October 2nd. A few places did start, but MDC has not started, and they told the prisoners that they have no intention on opening visits. So that really sucks. We'd also like them to receive masks and cleaning supplies for a long time. was no soap to even wash their hands. There was no sanitizer. There was nothing. We're also asking for the immediate release of immunocompromised people. There have been a few people who were

let go, but trying to get compassionate release has been really hard. It's kind of like a lottery at this point. And we just want everyone in the shoe solitary confinement to be released because the conditions they are probably the worst inside of the entire MDC. Absolutely. Lou, would you have anything to add before we wrap up? Yeah, we just,

for those phones apps, you can follow on Instagram at Sunset Assembly, and we post the phones apps. And also just to, oh, and that also on Fridays, we're usually outside MDC or on 6, and we post about that on the Instagram as well.

And one other thing I just wanted to share is for people to, really try to stay tuned about what repression people are facing from the George Floyd and Brianna Taylor protests and the Black Lives Matter uprising this still going on just because those things don't end at the protests and that people really are going to be faced far and are going to be facing repression from that for a while. And so kind of just making sure to stay tuned to support people in that as well. Yeah, absolutely. We saw after Ferguson what happens to organizers once the media turns their cameras away from those events and there's no reason to believe

similar things aren't already happening and will continue to happen as the media loses interest in these really black liberation uprisings around the country. Thank you, Lou, Kylie, and Nicole so much for coming on and making me and my audience aware of this issue. Shout out to Eve from Unity and Struggle for helping put this whole thing together. I'll link to all the resources in the show notes and anybody listening, please from the bottom of my heart, do what you can. to help out here. This is something where everybody, no matter who you are, can do something. And I really, really urge you to do that. So thank you all for coming on and sharing this crucial information. And our heart, our love, our solidarity goes out to all of you.

A body's always dropping and all our babies watching. They chase them down and blocked them off and lost them while they shot them first. They chased this damn. Lock this up, the profit off a cotton and they chased his damn, hung us up and smiled while someone shot it. The universe is listening, but the devil's over his plot And so your prayers ain't loud enough Because he only tossing violence A secret code of silence That they use to maintain dominance

Those votes don't come with bullets So tell Biden fuck about it If a nigga take your chain You go kill them In the streets that's crystal clear Massa put them chains on you Give you 100 gears The heaviest chains be the ones

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They shot Tamir for playing He shot them just for praying Then the cops went out in Coffin Burger King With extra fries The cops are KKK And they ain't even trying to hide I went and copped the bigger K and then I got it suicide I grabbed my best up off the dresser

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Color just about your death They're yelling at you stop resisting What they need is out of the next And that's just some shit That I'm supposed to sit back and accept Fuck a chap Ain't no rest until I get that cracker's head, nigga You flag that cat in your mouth