Rev Left Radio - The Worker's Front of Ukraine (ML) on the Russian-Ukraine War

Episode Date: September 27, 2022

Breht is joined by members of the Workers' Front of Ukraine - a Marxist-Leninist organization based in Ukraine. We discuss the ongoing war in Ukraine, the impact of the war on Ukrainians, the Maidan Coup of 2014, the size and role of fascist and neo-nazi groups in Ukraine, Zelenskyy and Putin, the economic incentives behind the war, and much more! Learn more about the Worker's Front here: https://www.nowarleft.com/wfu Here is their telegram channel: https://t.me/RFU_media Card for donations (in euros): IBAN: UA783052990262046400937966096 Account number: 4731 1856 3288 7771 TRUFEN OLEH, Ukraine Outro music: "Catastrophe and the Cure" by Explosions in the Sky Support Rev Left Radio: https://www.patreon.com/RevLeftRadio  

Hello everybody and welcome back to Rev Left Radio. On today's episode, I have on some comrades from Ukraine, more specifically from Ukraine's worker front, an organization, a communist organization founded in 2020. In this conversation, of course, my guests don't speak English and I don't speak Ukrainian, but we do have a translator, the wonderful Katya. She'll be translating throughout, and it will be translating throughout. be overlaid over their answers. So you'll hear them quietly speaking in Ukrainian while her translation is laid over that and increased in sound so you can hear it. Really fascinating

to get insight from communists in Ukraine on the conflict, on the war, and help dispel some myths and lies and just some fairy tales that people in the West are force-fed about what's actually happening and what the actual dynamics are. So I'm deeply grateful for the comrades from Ukraine's Worker Front coming on and having this conversation with me. I also want to mention they did an interview as well with Prolacult. I don't know if you say Prolacult or Prolcult, but they're a great outlet. They're on YouTube. They're on Twitter.

I will link to their episode with these same comrades as well if you want to hear more content, more interview with them. It'll be in the show notes. Really just wanted to double down in my appreciation of our translator here. this conversation would be impossible without Katya, so thank you so much for making this interview happen and for translating it. And I just also wanted to say that, you know, during war, nationalism gets ratcheted up. And you'll hear how in Ukraine there is a lot of ratcheting up of right-wing nationalist rhetoric. And we saw the same thing here in the U.S. after 9-11 in the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan for many years. Even tepid criticisms of the war were seen as anathema, completely.

rejected and anybody who voiced them was seen and called a traitor and slandered. It was an insane time and the right really benefits from these sorts of wars as we know. And a similar dynamic is happening in Ukraine. And so, you know, they'll talk about how these narratives are, you know, having a lot of traction in the country. These nationalists and even right-wing narratives are having a lot of traction and how difficult it is to be communists. in Ukraine at this moment. So it's just a fascinating conversation. I'm really excited to share it with you. And without further ado, here's my discussion with comrades from Ukraine's Worker Front, translated by our good friend Katya. Enjoy.

Good afternoon. We're the workers' front of Ukraine, a Marxist-Leninist organization represented today by myself, by Volf Lusov and my comrade, Alexander Balotny. beautiful well it's an absolute honor to have you on so to start off can you introduce us to your organization what tendency on the socialist left it represents and what your goals are are in ukraine we are a young organization that was founded in 2020 the left movement in ukraine is very weak and has been shrinking further at this point our foremost goal is to create a vanguard party for the working class. We are engaged in political agitation, mostly on social networks, and have recently launched our website. We're also working on developing diplomatic relationships and are about to open our small legal clinic where we will give legal aid to students and workers because they're

now very vulnerable. We also have an education program, a bunch of reading circles where we study politic economics, philosophy, historical materialism, and scientific communism. At this point, And we also hope to establish a humanitarian aid outlet, but this is still in the process of development. Wonderful. Well, let's move into a discussion about Russia and Ukraine and the war going on in Europe right now. What are the main reasons that Russia invaded Ukraine, based on your understanding and analysis of the situation? We had covered this issue extensively in many of our articles and videos. But to sum it up, this war is the standard. imperialist turf war. Ukraine has long been a field for the competition between western, local and Russian capitals.

And because politics is a concentrated representation of the economics, war is just a continuation of politics by other means. Let's start with the fact that Ukraine is very regional resources. Forests, coal, iron ore, oil, gas, and of course, are fertile land. Moreover, Ukraine has a population of 40 million people. And, of course, we must not forget the few remnants of the Soviet industry, which are still operational. Economically, Ukraine is a delicious pie, the divvying up of which started many years ago and continues today. In 2014, our oligarchs decided to position themselves towards the West, which severely weakened the positions of Russian capital in Ukraine.

It's obvious that now Russia's monopolistic capital has decided to return what it had lost and strengthen its positions in the world arena. Meanwhile, it's in the interests of the Western states to keep Ukraine to themselves and weaken their Russian competitors. And in general, this war should be viewed as a part of the global conflict, where Ukraine is not an independent player. What we have playing out in front of us is a prelude to the impending Third World War. Can I ask really quickly about NATO? Because in the West, there's a lot of talk about NATO expansion to Russia. borders as being a primary reason, or at least one of the reasons that Putin and the Russians decided to engage in this war.

So what are your thoughts on NATO expansion and the role that plays in all of this? Well, we can deny the culpability of NATO in the initiation of this conflict. However, we must all remember that economics is the basis and doesn't exist on its own. It defends the interests of the imperialists of the bourgeoisie. I see. Can you talk about the impact of the war itself on the Ukrainian people and what the average Ukrainian has endured and what they think about the invasion and the reasons for it? I really want a sense of what the average Ukrainian is feeling right now. The war has had a very negative effect on the Ukrainian society. It's enough to compare what used to be to what unravels now. Before the war, the trust that the population had in the United States. Zelensky was plummeting, as the President had not kept the promises made during the election, where people mostly voted not for him, but against Poroshenko.

Just check out the ratings for Zelensky in 2021. As a general rule, the attitude towards the Russian language and the Russian culture was quite tolerant, despite all the attempts of the propaganda. Many had a negative view of the Russian Federation as a state before, but the Russophobia per se, The hate of the Russians was way less widespread. Today, being Russophobic is the mainstream. Ukrainian nationalism had also been present prior to the war. It was sponsored.

Propaganda campaigns were carried out in educational facilities and the media, but the spread of nationalism before February 24th was way smaller than what we have right now. And we have to admit that currently our government is doing a great job at brainwashing people. Sometimes it's hard to find one person who did not acquire very reactionary views due to the war. Moreover, it's quite common for those Ukrainians who had a good opinion of Russia before to have become flaming chauvinists with the war's advent. I assume that people use simple thinking categories, like they attacked us, we're defending ourselves, therefore we're right. And then reactionary propaganda resonates with this basic thesis.

In fact, all crimes, all atrocities, all madness is being condoned by the media. We're defending ourselves, therefore, it's all fair game. There was even a case where one TV presenter on Ukrainian TV quoted the Nazi criminal Eichmann and said that he wants to kill Russian children. The worst part is that too many people sincerely believe the nonsense pouring out from TV in the Internet. And if someone dislikes anything in our country, they're automatically labeled a traitor, a a shist, a saboteur, an agent of Kremlin, or something of the sword. So it's all great fun, as you can imagine.

Yeah, that's interesting because very similar dynamics occurred in the United States after 9-11 and the entrance into the Iraq and Afghanistan war. We certainly didn't have the argument that we're, I mean, we weren't defending ourselves from invasion, but there was a lot of, you know, reactionary ideas that we're defending ourselves from 9-11, and so anything is justified. in that context. So it's quite scary what war can do to a population. But you mentioned reactionary. So let's talk about Nazis. This is a big point of inflection here in the West around these discussions. So the question is, how numerous and influential are far right, fascist, neo-Nazi and white supremacist

movements, ideas and organizations within Ukraine? And to what extent are they represented in Ukraine's political and military institutions? You know what's the best gift you can give to someone who is delusional? You can make their fantasies come true. And that applies to the Ukrainian ultra-right. When the war started, an instant rise in nationalist attitudes was palpable. If you take a look at the right-wing media, they had an unprecedented rise in popularity in the first days of the war. I personally observed the following in neo-Nazi telegram channels grow incrementally.

The amount of the ultra-right themselves rose drastically as well. In general, we have a lot of nationalists, and they're quite influential. And when I say ultra-right, it's important to note that I don't mean some street thugs like skin hats. No. Our ultra-right are armed according to the latest technological advances and very well-organized. Since 2014, an endless amount of ultra-right organizations have shaped up in Ukraine's defense and law enforcement agencies. The best known of them are all the battalions called IDAR, Niebuhr one, and of course, Azov. It's worth noting that these and many other organizations are backed by our oligarchs. For instance, one of the country's richest people, Igor Kolomoisky, is notorious for his support of the neo-Nazis.

There's irony involved here. First of all, our ultra-right, like all of the Ukrainian politicians, love to rage against the oligarchy. Second, Kalamoisky himself is Jewish. It's all quite farcical, really, only not really something to laugh about. It's also important to know that despite the media coverage, the level of organization and huge influence in the security agencies, the neo-Nazis are quite weak politically within the Ukrainian state. The government is dominated by populists from the servant of the People Party.

And neo-Nazis are merely the combat dogs on the leashes held by the oligarchy. I see. So deep connections between the United States. the oligarchy and the far-right movement in Ukraine, even with the irony that some of those oligarchs are Jewish oligarchs backing far-right movements that don't have their interests ultimately in mind. So with that in mind, how does your organization and other communist, socialist or anarchist formations combat fascist in your country and their movements? Is there any really room for you to be able to do this? I have already explained what conditions were in.

Given that the fascists are numerous, well-armed and have a certain level of support among the population, as well as the backing of the government, for now the best decision is to wage struggle that's theoretical, agitational, and propaganda-based. This is what workers' front of Ukraine is busy doing. As to the opportunistic social democrats, there is no sign of struggle in their corner. Sometimes they dissent internationalist rhetoric themselves. Meanwhile, anarchists are interesting. Prior to the war, they used to have skirmishes with their ultra-right in the streets. They engaged in individual terror. These are senseless, harmful tactics, especially in our conditions,

where each of such street fighters can have a whole crowd set against them by internationalists. But back to our topic. Right now, many of the anarchists have gone to fight on the side of the Ukrainian bourgeoisie, so any sort of struggle is out of the question. In general, both social Democrats and anarchists are not numerous in Ukraine and therefore have no influence. I see, yeah, it makes a lot of sense. And it sounds like it's a particularly difficult situation in Ukraine with this overwhelming right-wing reactionary sentiment in the population. But we send our solidarity to the communists, doing whatever you can to keep your heads above water and fight back propagandistically.

The next question I would like to ask is about 2014. So one thing that people across the world don't seem to understand is how what is happening today in Ukraine is connected to what happened in 2014. Some call it a coup, others call it a revolution, and it's a crucial part of this story. So what happened in 2014? Was it a coup or a Western-backed color revolution, in your opinion? And can you talk about the conflict in the Donbos since it happened? In our country, the events of 2014 are officially called. called the Revolution of Dignity.

Meanwhile, common people just call this phase in our country's history the Maidan. However, we must say that the only revolutionary thing about it is the official name. A revolution is first and foremost a quality league, a foundational change of the socio-economic circumstances, and Maidan doesn't qualify here. After the collapse of the Soviet Union, Ukraine had been a typical peripheral state, used for gained by the bigger players, Western and Russian imperilists. Russian imperilists. Because these two sides are competing against each other, Ukraine became the battlefield for this fight. Particular oligarchic clans emerged in our country. Some of them

were pro-Russian, others pro-Western. Some tried to balance between the two sides. Of course, none of them had an abstract idea in their head to support Europe or the Russian world. They just had some economic benefits in trading with one of the sides. Effectively, the pro-Russian side was dominant in Ukraine, despite the fact that in 2005, a pro-Western Yushenko became president. In 2010, Viktor Yanukovych won the election, and the orientations once more shifted towards Russia, which was, of course, unprofitable for some players within Ukraine and outside of it. Contradictions accumulated and burst out during the Maidan, which caused a shift on orientation towards the West and the pro-Western clans. One can observe this trends by looking at the

Forbes list of the richest Ukrainians. It's not hard to spot the trend over the years, and you can see how such people as Pinchuk and Poroshenko grew rich, how Privat Bank, Ukraine's biggest bank, was taken from Kolomoisky and Bogalub. That's why the events in 2014 can't be called a revolution, because there was no leap in quality, just a coup. Monopolistic capitalism remained, only the political vector changed. And speaking of the war in Donbass and the LDPR, They appeared as a reaction against the actions of Maidan.

A similar movement also rose in Hartkept, however, it ran aground. Effectively, it's a separatist movement, which loved to use foxy and russophile motos. However, LDPR did not become People's Republics in their sense. They mostly served as economic subsidiaries for the Russian Federation. LDPR could deliver cheap labor, extend the market, bring about valuable resources. Don't forget that Donbos is one of the world. the most industrialized regions of Ukraine, and so forth. It's the classic scenario.

And clearly, neither the new Ukrainian bureaucracy nor the Ukrainian oligarchs find any advantages in losing such a profitable region, which led to the war against the separatist movement that finally grew into a full-scale war. Yeah, that's fascinating. And I really appreciate your consistent centering of political economy in your analysis. It's very helpful. Let's talk about Zelensky for a second, because people in the West have been introduced to Zelensky largely because of this war, and he is presented to us by our media as a brave freedom fighter and innocent lover of democracy who the West needs to back. How did Zelensky come to power? What are his actual politics? And how much,

if any, of this caricature of him as a hero is legitimate. We should point out that before the 2019 elections, Zelensky was not a political figure. He was a comedian and quite famous at that. In the majority of his TV shows, he made fun of various political sides. Despite his status, he won the elections with a big gain. He invested heavily into advertising, marketing, was sponsored by Kolomoisky, the oligog who had Privat Bonk taken away, but Zedinsky's program was 100% populist, for everything good, against everything bad.

He promised good labor conditions to the workers. He promised fruitful circumstances for doing business to the entrepreneurs. Of course, criticized the oligarchy. Remember who his sponsors were. He was never negative about Russia or Europe instead.

He made a promise to instantly sit down to negotiate with Putin to solve the military conflict, but also did not refuse EU partnership and both pro-Western and pro-Russian Ukrainians liked him. His debate with Petro Poroshenko, then president of Ukraine, was also a boon to Zelensky's reputation. In short, Zelensky was a kind of populist with a beautifully

written agenda, but when he got to the power into his hands, we saw a completely different result. Effectively, he continued Petro Poroshenko's politics. The orientation remained towards the EU. There were no negotiations with Putin. He didn't fix the conflict in Donbass. The economic promises to the people turn out to be empty, and of course no attempt to destroy the oligarchy was made. Yes, we know well how the West promotes Zelensky as a lover of democracy and civil liberties, but this is far from the truth, as we can judge by the actions of Zelensky and his party, servant of the people, during the war. When the war started, the ruling servant of the People Party immediately set their priorities straight. They instantly banned worker strikes.

Then they began passing increasingly reactionary amendments to the Labor Code of Ukraine. The most atrocious introductions include the possibility of 12-hour work days, the ability for the employer to introduce six-day weeks, an increase of working time by one hour during the night, the ability to fire an employee without the decision being approved by the elected body of the Union, and now it's fine to postpone paying wages till better times. Of course, there's a huge reserve labor force right now, and people are ready to suffer all sorts of abuse just to stay out of it.

Effectively, the ruling elite has killed the already weak Ukrainian labor movement. And if on the 1st of April the unemployed were able to receive 6,000 Haredness as compensation, after the date no one has been able to file for this benefit. They've had enough of welfare politics. Time to stop. Besides, the rating had increased afterward. The students are also being dragged through the mud. the mud. For instance, the Telegram Channel of the Kiev Polytac announced that their students were not being paid their stipends on time, or only paid apart, due to cuts in university budgets.

In the Harkiv Polytac student union wrote that their stipends had been cut by 48 percent. Meanwhile, we see many concessions being made to the business. The four-mancha labor code amendments, for instance, where you can now fire an employee without any repercussions or exploit them to the fullest, but also tax concessions. For instance, entrepreneurs of the first group, gaining revenue of just a bit over one million herivness, and of the second group, whose revenue is up to 5.42 million dollars, don't have to pay the single social contribution while the martial law lasts. As to the entrepreneurs of the third group, with revenue up to 7.6 million herivness, Zelensky

announced that they don't have to pay the single social contribution for all the employees defending Ukraine as part of the armed forces of Ukraine or the territorial defense forces. He also announced tax deferment for all the businesses that can't pay them during the martial law and for at least a year after. New laws are being developed to lower the taxes for business. Despite the government's promise to control prices on the market, the prices have been rising. Price gouging has been growing, especially in the zones adjacent to the front line. The sliver of democracy, as the West refers to him, also banned 12 political parties during the war, allegedly, for their pro-Russian views and Russian

connections. And, indeed, some of these parties or their activists had some connections with the Kremlin, or war-oriented towards it, as one could see from their party programs. But to say that they support Russia would be a very big overreach in most of these cases. And in general, the situation in the country is difficult. If you fall out of favor, you can be accused of working for Kremlin, which will put it, dark spot on your biography, and it will be very difficult to wash it off. Our organization had been similarly smeared, but the attempt was not successful. So it's not hard to understand that Zelensky is not the man who fights for freedom and democracy. It's just that the people

in the West don't understand what really is going on within Ukraine, and are willing to believe all kinds of nonsense. In general, even Ukrainians themselves still don't understand it, even if their rights and liberties are being caught off, not secretly, but quite blatantly. Yeah, that's absolutely interesting. It really breaks down the caricature of how the West views Zelensky. You mentioned him cracking down on left-wing organizations or various organizations and political parties. Are these all on the left? Are they a multitude across the spectrum? And what has the impact been specifically on the left in the wake of these crackdowns? As I've already mentioned, some parties have been banned. Among them was the inactive and Paddy Borgiazzi Party, Communist Party of Ukraine.

There was also the Dijava Party, which loved to use left populist motos. Many parties, with names similar to Socialist Party of Ukraine, had been banned. However, they were not left parties. Some of them were actually linked to Russia. For instance, the one named Socialist Party of Ukraine, whose leader Ilya Akiva is currently holding pro-Kremlin positions, even though he was a fiery Russiophob back in 2014. Antimayana activists had also been arrested. Some of them do hold pro-Russian views in reality. Others don't. The majority of persecution goes after the Russiophiles,

and it doesn't matter if they're a leftist or right-wing. There was this one telegram channel that kept track of the dynamics of the political repressions. However, the admin has not posted there for quite a while, so for now we're only able to learn who had been arrested through open information provided by the security service of Ukraine. Either way, even if the hunt is mostly after the pro-Russian activists, all the leftists who are critical of our government's actions should be vigilant to avoid being swept up. And undoubtedly, even the repressions against the pro-Kremlin left can negatively influence the overall left movement. Because right now, the logic is that if you're a communist, you also support Putin. You're a russist as well.

And the Russian Federation's armed forces are actively contributing to this mythology by putting up Soviet flags everywhere and using Soviet symbols in the war, which effectively discredit the communist idea and blazoned to the Ukrainian propaganda's hands. This is probably one of the direst consequences for us, the Marxists who actually stand with the workers. The communists, past and contemporary, are being presented by the government as an outside, occupational and anti-Ukrainian force, and we will have to choose a very compact strategy so that we would not be accused of false-Rushism or discredited in the public consciousness. When someone was accused of being pro-Russian before the war, the majority didn't care,

and now it's all changed. Of course, there are also people on the left who have supported the Ukrainian government in this war, and no one touches them at this point. However, if you feed a tiger, it doesn't mean it won't tear off your head. Yeah, absolutely. That's incredibly clarifying. And it is sad to see anti-communism or even pro-communism marshaled in this war, you know, on either side.

Here in the U.S., there's a little bit of this anti-communist holdover from the Cold War period where sometimes even now, you know, Putin and Russians will be tied in with, you know, Soviet imagery to make them extra scary to Westerners. So it's a thing that's happening all over. But here's my last question before we get into, you know, the very last plugs, recommendations, et cetera. And this question is, how do you see this war coming to an end? What resolution would be best or preferred? And what can we in the due to help our Ukrainian comrades in this dangerous time. We can't say when the war will be over.

It's been dragging on. Russia controls the Hearson region, the Lujansk region, parts of the Kharkiv, Zaporizia, and Donetsk regions. There have been no particular gains from either side for about the last month. However, more forces are being accumulated in the Zaporizier region. It has become the custom for nothing to happen for a while and then for everything to erupt, once again in full force. The soldiers on the front lines are dealing with many problems.

If you look at the videos released by the Ukrainian soldiers, they often complain that they don't have enough nourishment, arms, medicine, staff, technical equipment. Many complaints are made about the commanding staff who often send private soldiers to plug up holes on the front line, and it's equal to going to their deaths. We have virtually no arms manufacturing in the country, and we're very much reliant on in the Western countries. And the arms manufacturing that we do have is constantly being shelled by the other side,

even those in the rear. In addition to that, our country's economy has suffered a lot. The access to some of the economic regions has been shattered, big chunk of industry and infrastructure in the rear have been damaged. We've had to devalue our currency. The GDP of Ukraine in the first quarter of 2022 shrunk by 15.1% and is expected to fall

at 35, 40% overall in 2022. The inflation for July was 22.2%. And if we add everything we've been covering in our interview, it becomes clear that Ukraine is living for a brutal crisis, and even the jingoist moods in the frontline zones have been subsiding, because material conditions are more important than abstract nationalist ideas. And yet, we have to say that the influence of our propaganda is so powerful that the majority is still convinced that they should just suffer a little, and then everything will go back to normal

by itself. In the Russian Federation, the situation is a bit better, but I can't say that things are rosy there. They've come to a standstill on the front line. Some LPR residents refuse to take part in the war in other regions, saying that they have restored the territorial integrity of their republic, and the other ones are not their concern. In reality, these guys just don't want to die for someone else's interests, especially suffering from cold and hunger. We have a few people in our organization who are on the front line, and one of them had even seen combat activity. He says that the Russian soldiers are equipped to all the latest technical advancements, while the LDPR soldiers are badly equipped. As to the economics, Russian Federation is currently dealing

with some slumps as well, as well as isolation. Currently, they're trying to reorient themselves from the European market to the Asian wine. There have been some successes in the diplomatic relationships with Iran, while Chiala is not in a rush to back Russia up. We've recently talked to our Russian comrades from the Russian labor front, and they've quite extensively described how hard the import substitution has been. There are some spheres in the economy where substitutions are virtually impossible to make. For instance, when Tetrapak, the plastic and cardboard packaging producer, left the market,

these had to be swapped for something completely. different. What the war will end with remains to be seen. Despite one of the sides emerging victorious, we must be ready that no one will want to see Marxists by their side. Marxists who unite the socially vulnerable population around themselves, and after the war, such population will be even more numerous. Either way, we have to be ready for a new wave of repressions, and we must agitate among the population. It's crucial to organize the masses, however, we must I must admit that we don't have enough experience in organizing workers, even though this is something towards which we strive. As to help, first and foremost, the Western Left can help us with information.

The more people in Europe and the U.S. know what is really going on in Ukraine, the more opportunities arise to put international pressure on the governments, or at the very least, better conditions for agitation amongst the population arises. We also have people who had to move to Europe due to the war, like many other Ukrainians. Obviously, there might arise labor problems in the other countries, which will affect Ukrainian migrants. Western competent unions and Marxist organizations have way more experience when dealing with migrants and workers than us. But we understand how the typical Ukrainian migrant thinks, and would be happy to meet and collaborate with people who can and want to work with migrants. We also want to organize humanitarian aid to help the suffering civilian population.

This will help us with our reputation among the masses and will show us the moods in the communities, perhaps even lead to useful connections and networking. However, the problem we're facing is that we don't have a lot of money for humanitarian aid, even if there are quite enough people willing to engage in it. If some Western leftists would like to help us and the socially vulnerable people that we will direct our aid to, We're always open for the dialogue.

Yeah, absolutely. And if there's any funding, go-fund me, a fundraiser of any sort that we at RevLeft could plug or promote or even put in the show notes of this episode, we absolutely will. So anything we can do to help on that front, we will do. Well, I just want to say thank you so much for coming on and helping us to understand what's happening in Ukraine

and dispelling many lies and myths, fed to us in the West about this war. We genuinely send our love and solidarity to you, comrades. Before I let you go, is there anything you'd like to promote, recommend, or say before we end? As we've already said, this war is of the imperialist kind, which is why the workers' front of Ukraine stands against both sides. To support someone in this conflict means to betray the revolution. This war isn't and cannot be a national liberational one,

because the bourgeois dictatorships to both sides of the barricades are solidly established. The fascization as a tendency towards fascism is evident in Ukraine and Russia alike. In practice, the support for one's own bourgeoisie does not bring any value to the communists, but is quite pleasant for the ruling class. Our position is clear cut, no war but class war. We call Ukrainian and Russian communists to analyze the existing problems, using the methods of Marx and angles, not layperson perceptions. The fact that some leftists in Ukraine and Russia have taken to social chauvinism

clearly demonstrates that many don't know Marx's theory and therefore cannot apply it. Such people are, in our opinion, renegades. They are not worthy of anything but scorn. As to links and plugs, we have a channel on telegram, a YouTube channel, we have an Instagram account and a Facebook page. We also have a contact bot that anyone willing can use to inform us of any questions for our organizations to offer something to discuss something.

And if someone wants to help us monetarily, we'll live our coordinates for that. Okay, yeah, and when we get that, we'll link to that in the show notes and we'll link to their other pages as well so people can go learn more about them, support them in any way that you can. And I really appreciate the principled

application of scientific socialism and the centering of political economy and class war in these very troubled and heady times, often, as we've seen through history, you know, when a country goes to war, it is very easy to win over huge segments of the population with nationalist propaganda and to see comrades like you holding the line is wonderful. So we're here, if you need anything, keep up the amazing work, and thank you so much for coming on and spreading the word on Revla. Thank you very much as well. We wish you all the best and bid farewell.

We're going to be able to be. We're going to be able to be. Thank you. Thank you. I'm going to be able to be. Thank you. Thank you. We're going to be able to be.

I'm going to be the I'm going to be. You know, the You know, Thank you. We're going to be able to be. Thank you.

Thank you. You know, I don't know.