REWILD + FREE - 32. WRITING + POETRY AS A TOOL TO STRENGTHEN INTUITION AND RECONNECT TO YOUR INNER AUTHORITY WITH KAT FARRELL DAVIS

Episode Date: November 6, 2023

In this episode, I'm joined by fellow matrescence facilitator Kat Farrell Davis where we explore the depths of motherhood; including societal expectations, collective feelings of inadequacy and disconnection, and why we should rebirth the lost art of writing. Kat and I address our primal need for connection, and the generational impact mothering has on the world. We also discuss the importance of redefining success based on our own values, and the magic of embodied poetry. Kat believes we are all poets and introduces us to the idea of using poetry / storytelling as a tool for mothers to hone intuition, root into inner authority, and source resiliency, empowerment & community.  Kat sees writing as a small thread to dismantle the patriarchy and shift the paradigm. After listening to this episode, I think you'll agree!   So grab your journal, because this conversation is both thought-provoking and soul-stirring. Get ready to unveil your inner poet as we journey together on the path to rewilding and embracing our true essence as mother entrepreneurs.Meet Kat: Kat is a poet, mother, matrescence facilitator & nature devotee. Through various containers, she offers generative writing circles, matrescence mentorship and postpartum support. You can find her rock hopping along the shores of southern Maine, wandering deep in the north woods, or online at www.katfarrelldavis.comConnect with Kat on IG @katfarrelldavis Follow Kat on SubstackCheck out Kat's affinity circle for Mother Writer’s - Tending the Depths Support the showConnect with Nicole on IG (@nicolepasveer) Want to be a guest on the podcast? Fill out this form

I don't know if it's like fame that's desired, but like notoriety. And I really feel like what that is inherently is like people seeking a very specific level of connection, both with themselves, the natural world, and then their broader communities. Right. So like the more people that follow you on Instagram or like, say they like your art or whatever else, it's like, it gives you that validation. And I thought that that was like wrong or evil for a long time. But now I see that validation as just, it's connection, like our brains are wired for connection. You're listening to Rewild and Free. This is the go-to podcast for conscious and holistic mother entrepreneurs who are ditching society's to-do list for intentional living, freedom, and abundance, while creating impact and legacy in

their home and business. If we haven't met yet, I'm Nicole Pasvir, your like-hearted mom friend and biz bestie wrapped in one. I'm an ex-nurse turned matrescence guide and business coach, leading women just like you into the new paradigm, where thriving in motherhood is your birthright, and so is a successful and sustainable online business. Keep listening if you're ready to unsubscribe from patriarchal motherhood, bro marketing, and boss babe culture. Because in this space, we use nature as our framework as we move towards feminine embodied business development, cyclical orientation, and slow living. Together, let's rewild and remember as we break free from survival and reconnect to what truly matters. Okay friend, steep your tea and take the most loving breath you've given to yourself today

and let's go. Hello, hello. Welcome back to another episode on the Rewilding Free podcast. I feel like it has been so long and I think it's only been a week. And this podcast recording was actually done a couple weeks ago this is my first guest interview since the rebrand of the rewild and free podcast and it's really really special that I had Kat join me for this interview because I feel like our conversation really just hones in on so many of my values and my mission with this podcast. So it's just really beautiful that she helped me bring some of that language to life. So yeah, in this episode, I'm joined by my friend Kat. Kat and I met through the Seasons of Matrescence facilitator training

that we both recently completed. She is such a cool human being, like potentially one of the coolest moms I know. Like the rest of us, Kat wears many hats. She's a poet, she's a mother, and she's a matrescence facilitator. You can find Kat rock hopping along the shores of southern Maine or wandering deep in the Northwoods. Like how cool does does that sound or of course on the web at km feral davis.com or on instagram at cat feral davis and i had to ask her how to pronounce her name just because i feel like yeah it's simple but it's one of those names that might have different pronunciation and she told me that it's cat feral like feral cat and i can't like unsee it now so I needed to pass that on to you um anyways this episode is truly beautiful we go in all directions as I always do on this podcast

we are talking mothering we are talking business we are talking nature we are talking generational change and building a legacy we are talking about how to be intentional how to hone in on intuition and more specifically Kat shares her wisdom on the tool of using poetry and writing as as her as her secret sauce on how to just live life with more intention. And yeah, as usual, I always like I'm on the verge of rambling in these short intros. I am going to leave it there because this episode really will speak it for itself. Make sure to follow Kat and make sure to check out her newest offering, Tending the Depths. It is a monthly women's writing circle and private sub stack group. And it looks so, so beautiful. So, so juicy. So, so supportive. I am very much considering

joining myself because writing is a big part of my life, not necessarily in the sense of my personal practice. I am a very lazy journaler, but I would love to bring more intention into that place of my life. But I really do see how this could have so much benefit and so much depth in my copywriting in my business and really being able to pull some of my experience into words and have more potency in my storytelling. And as we discuss later on in the episode, really using writing as a opportunity to self-reflect and self-connect and making the intention of connection to self be the first and foremost thing that you're doing as you're creating. So yeah, I said I was going to ramble. I rambled. I'm going to stop it there and press play on the recording. Enjoy. Just getting to know you in our matrescence training, everything that came out of your

mouth, I was like, yes, yes, that hits, that resonates, all of it. So I am super thrilled just to have more conversation with you. Yeah, I can say the same thing about you. And I mean, the coaching calls in our training really weren't super coaching call-y. They were very like women's circle-y. And like with that, it was very beautiful to get to know each woman in the circle because we were constantly just learning and mirroring off of each other's story and experience. And yeah, I'm excited to kind of extend some of that into our chat today. Dig it. Yeah. I'm all about, I'm all about circles in general in like a, um, more of like a metaphysical sense, but then also just in a professional sense and a community sense circles are where it's at. Yeah. Speaking my language. I love it. Okay. Why don't we just like dive right

in? I would love, I don't even know this story. So I would love to hear just a little bit of the background and the context to where you got to where you are today, just like in motherhood, but also in your corner of the internet, all of it. So give us like the long story short version. Okay. It's funny. Like as a mother, I don't get asked too many questions about myself. So it's always like the pause, like, what do I say? What do I say? Yeah. Oh, and actually, wait a minute. Before we dive into that, I've been meaning, I want to start asking everyone that comes on my show, what book are you reading? Do you have a book on the go? I do. So it's going to be really awkward when I come across someone that's like, I hate reading. Oh my gosh. Does such a human exist? I get that

like, I don't know. Reading can be difficult for people, but like some sort of media, people are engaging with media all of the time. Exactly. If it's a picture book. Okay. So I'm reading, I forget what it's called, but it's by Rick Rubin and it's about creativity. And it's a picture book. Okay. So I'm reading, I forget what it's called, but it's by Rick Rubin and it's about creativity. And it's like this super hot book right now that everybody's talking about. And I literally just had it in my hands. So it's around here somewhere. But I think it might be called a creative life or something like that. But Rick Rubin is like this. Google it. Yeah. It's a great book with a circle on the front go figure circles um so totally like on brand with probably where our conversation's about to go

yeah is it called the creative act that's it the creative creative act by rick rubin cool and it's funny reading that i'm like oh my gosh this book like i don't know when it was written but i think we've like both tapped into like the same like universal consciousness of like everything in that book thus far, like mirrors what I'm about individually and professionally and like verbatim things that are on my website. And I'm like, whoa, this is a really far out. Oh, that just gave me chills. Like I love when you come across something that it's like, yeah, this is literally pulling like what I know to be true out into words. I'm currently reading Regenerative Business by Samantha Garcia. It's a new book. I think she literally just published it earlier this year. It's actually my second time reading it because

it's not good. I got to write that down because I need all the business hacks. Yeah, no, this one's good because it's literally all about how do we orient to nature in our business and actually build a sustainable business, not just one that's like hustle and like burn to the ground. So it's amazing and very like feminine led. It's amazing. Okay. So you had me at nature. I actually studied, well, the degree is ecotourism and adventure travel that I have, but it's specifically learning about ecosystems and our place within them. And then how to like act from a place of compassion when it comes to like doing right by nature and also doing right by yourself. And it's, everything comes back to nature for me. So I know that I'm here to talk about like poetry and motherhood, but in the back of my mind, it's always like, how do we fit into our broader

ecosystems? You know, how do we interact with one another? I love that so much because I feel like that is literally the essence of what I want this podcast to be about. So it's almost like divine timing that you are my first guest in this rebrand. So, okay, this is so cool. Okay. Let's get into, okay. So ecotourism, you have a degree in ecotourism. Where does all that fit in? Is that pre-motherhood? Yes. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. So this is like back when I first became an adult, which I would say probably happened in my early twenties and not my late teens, like they say it does. Um, and even so I don't think I became like a full-fledged adult until I turned 32. So like, that's just a random aside. Um, I've been in love with nature my entire life and I just found that program. Um, and I got to study biology, ecology, tourism on a micro and macro level.

I got to study in the Bahamas, in Central America, in Ohio, and in Canada. We went to all these different places. And essentially, I learned a lot about my place in the world. And I've always loved books. I think if you asked me when I was in fourth grade, are you a poet? I would have told you yes. And then for a couple of decades after that, as things got brainwashed from my system, I would have said, no, I'm not an artist. I'm not a poet. But that program, although it was like

science and nature based and like almost sociology based, it really brought me back to my poet self, if that makes sense. Yeah, it totally does. Yeah. All those languages that are older than words, you know, and then kind of like gleaning the messages from nature and writing it down. That's where it all started for me. Um, so fast forward to 2019 and I started calling myself a poet professionally. And this is like,

so random. I met who is now my mentor. Um, the poet Holly run Spalding. I met her at a poetry reading and she was like, Oh cat, nice to meet you. What do you do? I was like, Oh, well, I'm a yoga teacher right now, but I would love to be a poet one day. And she was like, just stop right there. Don't sin against your gift. You are a poet. And like, that was the moment that changed everything for me. So I started sharing my poetry first with my husband and then I started getting braver and like put it on the internet um and now my art shows up in the poetry journals which is a sub stack newsletter that I send out to people um I believe that as artists being featured in a gallery or on like big scales is not attainable and it

oftentimes doesn't lead to the type of connection that we're actually seeking so I really think that like small scale small scale sharing of my art is what I need and it helps me connect with the people that I need to connect with and connect with myself um and so I started hosting, because I was a yoga teacher, I decided to get into the realm of like teaching yoga and poetry online. So I taught a couple online retreats and lots of workshops focused around mindfulness and poetry. And that's what I had been doing up until I got pregnant. And then I'm sure this was similar with you, right? Like your, your world changes, your identity shifts, like total full body transformation, mind, heart, and spirit. And I just fell in love with the postpartum experience and motherhood as like areas of study. So I just had

to know like the science behind why these shifts were taking place and like how to engage with these transformations as like spiritual initiation so that I could, could come at mothering and motherhood from a more compassionate place. Cause if I could like understand what was happening to me on a physical level, but also like an emotional and spiritual level, then I could, I could be a better mother to myself and my daughter. Essentially. I just want to like stop you for a second because the words that just came out of your mouth have never felt more truthful to me like the aspect of I don't know you didn't you didn't say these exact words but what I almost heard you say is like you zoomed out to actually just like look at where you were in the world as mother and what your role as mother has on like the entire ecosystem um and i i already hear kind of you weaving into

the nature side of things and like the ecological biological things but also sociological and as you already mentioned like physical and spiritual and all the things and how how our role as mother and how our physical, psychological, spiritual changes all impact and like the ripple effect in the ecosystem of not just our family, but our world. And I like completely experienced that. And I feel like part of me was like, am I not being present? Like, is this me not being present in motherhood? Because I'm almost seeing this as a science experiment. Like, I don science experiment like I don't know I don't know if you can speak to that at all if like there are some science experiment vibes

happening in your world too or if it yeah I don't know yeah oh you brought a practice concentric circles circles circles circles um the science experiment that is motherhood so have you come across jesse harold's work she's a matricence coach and does like really cool courses and stuff okay yes she's phenomenal and she was um speaking in a class that i was in the other day and she was saying, it's funny, the creative energy that gets produced during the initial postpartum experience. So looking at those first weeks and months right after birth. And she was like, it's no surprise that like the mompreneur is birthed from this process, right? Because we have like all this creative energy flowing around. And I think that's part of it is like, we're all trying to just,

not all, a lot of us are trying to understand ourselves on a deeper level. And I feel like sometimes when you go deep enough, you recognize that like, it's almost energetical. Like you see your connection to everything else around you and how can you be separate from that? Right. So like, yeah. And once you see it, you can't unsee it. Yeah. Yep. And sometimes you wish you could. But Jessie made this really good point. She's like, not everyone is wired for or wants to do this kind of deep work to like look with such introspection at yourself and then see how you're showing up in the world and how, how you affect that ripple effect. Right. So the way we, I'm going to use the term mother,

but it's like the way that we tend to ourselves, the way that we mother and tend to our children and how these acts, man, they go far and wide, far and wide. Yeah. Well, and that's a big part of my own messaging is really, it starts with self, really starts with that inside out work, knowing that the more you can pour into yourself, there is going to be that ripple effect and it's going to extend into your family. It's going to extend into your community. It's going to extend into your business. But at the end of the day, it still starts with self. Yeah. Yeah. And those are like really big concepts. So good on you for being able to, to look and recognize and then synthesize these really big concepts because I've found in the last year or two, it's not easy to look at these things.

It's also very much one of those things where it's easier said than done, right? We can say all day to the cows come home that, yeah, I'm putting myself first. I'm putting myself first. But like as a mother, as a female who's lived in this patriarchal conditioning where we're supposed to be pretty perfect and pleasing um it is really damn hard to truly put yourself first and and that I think part of it is because we've all I shouldn't say we've all but many of us have been led to believe that if we do that then we're being selfish and we really need to kind of switch that narrative and understand that no that's not that's not selfish it's actually selfless in the sense that we know it's going to have a greater impact on those around

us but the whole narrative around like self-care and like I get how how hard it truly is I also understand that there's some privilege around it too right just in your family dynamics and your socioeconomic status like there's so many moving pieces to it all, but at the end of the day, the narrative still does need to shift because the way we're going, the way motherhood is being written is not sustainable. No, absolutely not. And black and white thinking isn't sustainable either. Amen. Yeah. You're speaking to some really interesting points that I actually, I jotted down a couple notes before gathering today, because I think up until very recently, getting into the business side of what I do now, I have lacked like a clear and concise mission.

Like, why am I here doing this? At first it was just because, well, I'm a poet and I love poetry and I'm a nature devotee. I love nature. So I just need to interact with these things. Right. But it was so personal, but like since studying matrescence and the postpartum experience as a whole, I've come to understand that like, I have micro and macro goals and missions that I want to achieve. And it's not like I'm like, I think a lot of people with their art, I don't know if it's like fame that's desired, but like notoriety. And I really feel like what that is inherently is like people seeking a very specific level of connection, both with themselves, the natural world, and then their broader communities. Right. So like the more people that follow you on Instagram or like, say they like your art or whatever else, it's like, it gives you that validation. And I thought that that was

like wrong or evil for a long time. But now I see that validation as just it's connection. Like our brains are wired for connection. It's like survival mode. When it's our birthright to feel seen, heard and recognized, to deeply feel seen, heard and recognized. And again, most of our lives, we really haven't actually been able to engage at that depth because we've all been living in these very superficial worlds, fully masked, not actually embodying our true selves. So even if there's moments of being validated and recognized, we're being validated and recognized for something that's not actually us. And part of that for me is like recognizing something that's very hard for me to say out loud, but a lot of what's been holding me back, at least for the last two and a half years in my business is the fact that I am just now starting

to recognize and understand internalized misogyny. And the fact that I don't value 90% of the work that I do, because if it doesn't pay me money and if it doesn't like support my family financially, I don't view it as valuable. So like the endless laundry, my messy house, my child, like the way that I mother her, if like all of that and 10,000 other things are not of value because they don't pay me money. And no one is saying, oh my gosh, thank you for doing all of these unseen things that like, I don't even know exist because you just take care of them from meal planning and grocery shopping to, I mean, we don't need to go down the list. We all know. Where do you think that belief stems from? At least in your experience, like, is that some modeling in your childhood? Is that from, yeah, I don't know. I won't fill in the blank

for you, but have you, have you gone to the depths of like where that's truly coming from? Depth, depth keeps coming up for me. Absolutely. My parents had like very specific roles where my father was the quintessential breadwinner and my mother stayed at home with the children. And I don't know if that's like specifically how they planned it or how they wanted it, but it's how it was. And, um, I kind of, and it's likely what they were praised for. Yes. Oh my gosh. Exactly. Yes. Praise. And then receiving that praise as well. Yeah. Yeah. Gets ingrained. Yeah. When like similar to my story, I didn't, I didn't, my parents were divorced, so I didn't have that picture perfect family growing up, but I had a very logical and successful financially

father who really instilled in me that money equals success. And not in the sense that you need to buy nice shiny things, but more in the sense of security. And so I still really hold on to that, that money equals security. And one of my, well, I was going to say big value, but really again, it's like, I think it's just the human need is security. So for me, it's really hard to separate the two. And yeah, a lot of my insecurities and like scarcity mindset, it creeps in due to fear of losing security. And then that closely intertwines with money. So stuff's tricky. So as you said, this is what our brains are wired for, right? And so this is, I worked in wilderness therapy for a while, which is where that ecotourism degree kind of took me. So I got to work with therapists and the wilderness simultaneously, which was really cool. And so I got to learn a lot about the brain and how it's wired and why we do the things

that we do. And what you're saying is like, that's our DNA, buddy. Like rewriting that rhetoric. It's like, it goes back. It goes back to like the dawning of man, right? It's what we are wired for safety and security. And so this is really big work. back to like the dawning of man right it's what we are required for safety and security and so this is really big work and like you doing that will then model that for your child and set future

societies up to not operate the way that we currently are and i just think that's so cool i do so that just takes us back to the whole visual of like this ripple effect right and like the work that we as mothers are doing um yeah like we don't even know the impact we we can't fathom the impact that it is going to have on future generations and that you can either see that as really big and maybe a lot of pressure and responsibility or you can see it as an honor and almost like a purpose and a reason to wake up each morning and be the best version of yourself you can be. Yeah, absolutely. And I feel like on my end, poetry is the tool for that. And obviously people will use whatever tools resonate most with them. But for me, writing and poetry are the modes that I think can change

things on an individual societal and cultural level. Like that paradigm shift everybody talks about, like paradigm shift is so ethereal. Like, what do you mean? It's so broad, but like when we stop and consider like one tool, what is one tool we have to create that paradigm shift for me, it's poetry, it's self-expression and storytelling as a means of fostering resiliency and empowerment, and then sharing that story or whatever it is you have written with your close communities and watching the connections that get formed because of it. And then those connections rippling out to like broader culture. And I really feel like if we follow this thread, this is like one small way to dismantle the patriarchy,

which is what I'm all about. Just like evening playing field as best we can during time. There is a piece of that I want to zoom in on. Because you almost spoke it out loud as like this linear step-by-step process, right? First step is you actually put pen to paper and write out the words that are flowing through you. But one of those steps was sharing it. And so if you're not actually sharing it, if you're just keeping it to yourself, if you're just keeping it in your journals and the note sections of your phone, that kind of like stops the process. Can you speak a bit on, yeah, like I guess that step in the process and how to actually find the bravery and the self-trust. And I imagine

buttloads of self-compassion too, because not every piece of work is going to be perfect. So there's going to be a lot of cringing and a lot of, oh my goodness, like people are going to think X, Y, Z of me. Yes. This I can talk about all day. So poetry to me is connection, connection connection with self connection with the natural world which still is like connection with self but then connection with broader communities right and my whole aim in my work now especially having completed this matrescence mentorship style training is to connect these pieces for people to show like you are a poet we are all born creative individuals and if you if the definition of writer and or poet are two words

that speak to you in any capacity you don't have to have written a single thing yet just if you're drawn to those words that's step one you already are like, let's work together. Step two is to create spaces and containers where people feel empowered to write what they have to write. And it's going to sound different for everyone and it's going to look and be different for everyone. Maybe some people are drawn to prose or personal essay. Maybe some people are drawn to modern poetry or like poetry that like rhymes, which isn't like not my wheelhouse. I cannot write a rhyming poem to save my life. But I want to create spaces where people feel empowered and are like given tools to write things that they think are meaningful. And I don't want to use the term good, but I guess I will. I mean good in a sense that it helps you connect with yourself first, and then it helps you connect with someone else after that. So it doesn't need to be in a book of poetry that gets published one day. That's not the point. The point is connection on these smaller scales so that we can then create that ripple effect. Right.

Does that answer your question? I got sidetracked. I kind of forgot my question, which is totally fine. But two other things kind of poured through me as you were sharing all that. One is I always say connection over performance. That is like literally one of my mantras moving forward in like business creation and business development. And that has been really, really hard for me to actually embody because as a former people pleaser and recovering perfectionist, like it is still instilled in me to pour out and give my best work. It is really hard to not

constantly be performing and perfecting. And so what you're speaking on around like that connection piece and that community piece is huge. I think when the intention shifts to how can I actually just use this as a form of connection with someone, it takes the pressure of it having to be A plus work. And then the second thing that was coming up is just, honestly, I felt my entire nervous system soften just as you were speaking, because it brought me back to like school days where you're constantly graded on your writing and you're told, okay, well, it has to be this many words and it has to be like this format and blah blah blah blah blah and it's like

no wonder people walk into adulthood feeling like they're not creative and feeling like they don't know how to write it's because unfortunately like the way our school systems are set up set up it really like squashed the creative creativity out of us it molded us to all be one type of writer and like you said like you can't rhyme so like why why should you be graded on writing a rhyming poem when you could probably write something else that could blow your teacher's mind out of the right you know what I mean like that creativity was squashed so it's a lot of unlearning of, okay, it's actually safe to embody the self-expression that comes naturally to you. Yeah. It's good. And it's really hard when it comes to self-trust and self-compassion

and like so many layers of more depth, more depth more depth depth depth is like my word of the year I swear it so I think what you're saying is making me realize that like what I want to do is like create a sense of safety and security in people which like within motherhood doesn't really exist right like control and stability are two things that really go out the door when you become a parent. Which really rocks so many women's worlds when we have been living in such a masculine culture and really just, yeah, living in this very go, go, go, produce, produce, produce, follow these timelines, do all these things. We have this sense of control. And then, yeah, motherhood completely strips that away from us and forces us to lean into our more feminine side and I think that's why motherhood can be so

confronting for so many people for so many women is because so many of us have never experienced what it's like to even embody that feminine essence before Yeah. And I imagine the aspect of writing really helps you drop into that. Totally. You actually, you speaking of this reminds me that you use the word lineage in your rebrand, right? And it's not just like, I don't know if I did, but I should, I think, I think, oh no, I think I read it in your bio. I definitely use it somewhere. Like I, I speak a lot to lineage and like generational change and impact all of this. This whole conversation is just amazing. Yeah, I know. We could talk for days, I think. Yeah. But what you're saying is not only are we wired in this lifetime to think that we are not creative, even though, hi, we're all creative individuals.

If you can like navigate traffic and come up with a solution at work and like plan your grocery list. Hi, you're a creative individual. We all are. But this wipe out this like instilling of this belief that we are not creative individuals. It's generational, too. It's like it's not just our own lifetime that we are not creative individuals it's generational too it's like it's not just our own lifetime that we have to reprogram it's all the generations leading up till now which is just i mean it does it's almost like earth shattering like how am i gonna how am i gonna do this it's so much work it's so big and it's kind of like it's kind of

like when we focus on like the atrocities and the terrible things happening around the world all when you want to focus on what you can control like come back in to the micro instead of the macro you can control the compassion that you show yourself you can control how you tend to and mother your child or parent your child. Um, I just think that's like the key piece is starting on that micro level so that you can, you can create those ripples and those concentric circles. Um, but on that note, I have a couple notes on like why I think poetry is so beneficial for this? Almost like principles around how I utilize poetry. And the first is that your body holds all the answers. So I believe that writing and poetry are tools to not only hone our intuition, but to also help us root into our inner authority because within patriarchy and also within capitalism,

the subliminal and overt messaging is that we don't know what we're doing. Like from the minute we give birth and we have all these like doctors and other people outside of ourselves weighing in, I mean, this like all sets the stage for a lifetime of us forgetting the language of our intuition and like unrooting ourselves from our inner authority. And I just feel like if you can do anything in your lifetime, those two things will be enough, like relearning the language of your intuition and rooting in your inner authority. I love that so much because I think a common theme or a common word I should say that I hear so many mothers and myself included say walking into motherhood or even starting businesses is just this like huge wave of And I feel like inadequacy as a feeling, as an emotion gets smaller and smaller and smaller, the more you actually lean into and connect your intuition. If you allow your intuition to lead you, there's no such thing as inadequacy.

Yes. Inadequacy comes from comparing to others and trying to be someone you're not chills on that yes and i think a big part of that like we can talk about the mommy influencer game that's being run on social media and how like social media can be such a detriment to most of us i mean i don't even to like, I don't even know if like social media can be entirely healthy. So just recognizing when we're in an unhealthy mode with it, but like the, the book mom fluenced by, I think her name is Sarah Peterson really speaks to this. And then she also wrote, um, she writes a In Pursuit of Clean Countertops.

It's hilarious. Just like dismantling mommy influencer culture. But essentially, I feel like these are ways that we give our power away. And I even see it with like the Facebook groups of whether you should breastfeed or formula feed or co-sleep or not co-sleep or sleep train. It's like all of these things, we start to like create our identities around them. And that's such a dangerous game because our core, our identities are not how we mother, right? Yes. My mind is totally just seeing all the parallels too. I'm constantly noticing the parallels between basically like birthing a human and birthing a business. Yes. make decisions around how you parent your baby. It's literally no different than the Facebook groups or the constant freebies that you're downloading for the next, like, this is how to write perfect copy, or this is how to create like your next lead magnet, or this is how to

make the best like podcast title. And believe me, I have gone down all of those rabbit holes and I'm constantly having to bring myself back up and be like, Nicole, just come home to yourself. Like you have the answers. All you have to do is shush out the noise around you. And yes, it can be that simple, simple. It's simple, but it's not easy. So maybe we can speak about that, right? It is simple that the process that we're both kind of touching on around coming back to self, using your intuition, igniting your own authority, like all those things. It's very, very simple, but it's not easy. So poetry has been a tool for you to step into that.

Yeah. Wow. I'm actually going to write that down and put it on the word that I have on my wall over my desk, which is like all of my inspiration for my work. Simple doesn't mean easy, but man, I feel you. Cause that's like from like how many newsletters I subscribe to, to like what I engage with in the quiet moments, like it matters. It's what forms your psyche. You know, it like forms the world through which you move and you get to, I mean, obviously not

everyone gets to do this. We're in a pretty privileged place. If we get to just sit here and talk about these concepts and like record a podcast. Right. But the fact that we're here and able to have this conversation, I just feel like we're doing good work with the blessings that we've been given. Yes. And so for me, it's like unfollowing all the newsletters, unfollowing things on social media, consuming less, but consuming more. Intentionally, just be very intentional about your consumption and conscious and aware of it. That's something that I really kicked into high gear in my own life. I've actually recently

unfollowed everyone on my business Instagram account. I think we actually talked about this in our, one of our more recent seasons of matrescence calls where like, it's not because I don't love these people that I'm following. It's honestly because they're too inspiring. And they are, I think these are some of your words, but they felt like truth for me. They are distorting my own inspiration and my own access to clarity. So yeah, I really had to be very intentional and protective of my energy so that I constantly am able to come back home to myself. That's hard works. Yes, it is. It's like the work, what we're talking about today is like the work of a lifetime. We're led to believe that we're going to wake up tomorrow and we're going to have this shit figured out, but that's not life.

And I really think like, that's a really powerful reframe. Like if someone unfollows you instead of being like, well, what did I do wrong? Or like, oh, I'm not good enough. The reframe is, wow, I'm so powerful right now. Or I am so like inspirational right now that someone just like needs to take a break. And that's okay. I think that's a powerful thing. And now I have this voice in my head, like, but you shouldn't be full of yourself. And that is the problem, right?

Yeah. It's like, we're not full of ourselves. And the voice in my head was, well, how are you going to make money then? Because followers equal clients. And it's like, whoa, Nicole, like, you know, that's not true. Like, but man, those voices get loud, right? The voices get loud. And if we're, if we're not careful, those voices get loud right the voices get loud and if we're if we're not careful those voices dictate our actions yeah the self-awareness required i mean this is to me this is mindfulness in action and that's what i call embodied poetry it's like oh i love that yeah poems are like presenting themselves every second of every day it's like paying attention and noticing, right?

And then deciding if you want to do that poem in the honor of birthing it. So it's like the embodiment practice of like being aware through your five senses of what's going on around you. And then maybe you turn that into a poem or maybe this is just like the depth that you need and the introspection that you need in the moment to, to create that paradigm shift within yourself so that you can create it on a larger scale. I have a question for you. So when you, okay, first of all, could you like literally just write a poem right now? Like if I said cat, write us a poem, like, would you, do you almost have this process of, yeah,

like I just like tune into myself. I open up my five senses and I literally just start describing what I'm experiencing. Is that poetry? Like, can it be that simple? It's literally just vomiting out the internal experience. Yes. That for me, that is how it is. And that is how it begins. And then we can talk about like craft and revision and like turning the initial piece into something else. But that first initial draft, that first poem was necessary because you needed to process something or you needed to connect on some level, like it serves a purpose right so like from chicken scratch to final printed version that you're ready to share with the world however that looks um it all serves a

purpose and yes um i could write a poem right now i would probably talk to you about the cinnamon in my coffee and the flame in front of me and this work that we're speaking to. And just like, I don't know, I feel like I'm stoking some internal fire right now and I'm really excited to see how I can fan it, but you'll have to update me after like what comes out of you after this in the next couple hours or days. Um, let's, let's go back into poetry and like the actual process of using it to reconnect your intuition and yeah just how it's how it's really surfaced for you in motherhood but also in your own business creation and and dare I say marketing that word does not feel right right now, but at the same time, so many mother entrepreneurs put so much weight and pressure on their copywriting. Yeah. So I would love to go in that direction.

This area is really hard for me. I was recently told by my mentor that I have the skill and the ability to do powerful work. I do not have the reach. So when I create things, um, for me, it feels like I'm just shouting into the void on the internet. And because of quarantine and COVID I've been exclusively on the internet. So I'm just now in this phase of like trying to get out into my local community to share this work and that's scary because I've been living under a rock in a cave for the last three years um do you know that movie I'm like I'm the worst person at trying to reference movies because I can never remember the title I don't know authors um but the movie where he basically builds this like baseball stadium but there's no baseball players and he keeps just building building building and basically the whole the whole

thing from it is like build it and they will come do you know what I'm talking about I don't but like god I hope it's true, and I feel like that is, or like, I think another analogy we could, we could go for, and again, I'm good. I think it's Henry Ford. I think that's his name. Basically the person that started building like Ford vehicles. If he would have like, just listened to what his audience needed, he would have built horses, but he said, no, like we're going to need cars. So again, it's like build something, create something, even if you don't have the audience, even if you don't have that reach, just trusting that the right people are going to come and that your work is going to magnetize the people that need it. Yeah. Thank you for that. Because I kind of,

it took me several years to create a niche for myself where I was like strong and powerful in my definition of poet. And now I've pivoted, like I'm a poet and I'm a matrescence mentor and a postpartum facilitator. And I really want to work with new parents on, on this work as poets specifically in writing. So that's been. Build it and they will come. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for that. I also am of the belief that we don't have as much control over our audience. Well, we definitely don't have control over our audience's engagement, but we don't really have control over our reach. a big misconception in the online business industry is, yeah, again, there's just a lot of pressure around, well, make sure you have this like lead magnet, make sure you're building your email list, make sure you're blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And there's just so many shoulds

around. And it's like, how about you just focus on yourself and being basically your best marketing strategy is just embodying the work. It doesn't have to be any more complex than that. And that is really hard to move forward with when again, we are bombarded by a bunch of noise happening outside of us and the inadequacy that we're feeling. So we, we, we almost on autopilot reach out to try to get answers from other people. And so, yeah, this is, I guess just kind of coming full circle to our earlier conversations around how reconnecting to your intuition and really trusting your body, knowing that your body has the answers is the answer to all of the above. Yeah. I can't tell you how good it felt when I finally realized

that like I was running game on something that was never a game I was invited to play in. Right. Like Instagram is kind of like maxed out. Um, sub stack, I think is kind of similar to Instagram and that like, it has this algorithm where it might share your work a little bit more yeah but we're all just like shouting at one another in this void that's filled with like billions of things like yeah you want to talk about like overstimulation and then I I just come out of it and my self-worth is sometimes a little shattered, you know, like, why can't I get this to work? Everyone seems to have this formula, this equation, or this ability to get their work out there. And I feel like a lot of it is just luck. And the fact that I am a mother means that my first job is already over full-time. So taking this on, on top of that, if there is an equation,

I imagine it takes over 40 hours a week to invest in that equation, right. To make it work. And I, that's not where I'm at in life right now. So I've kind of like stopped trying to play that game. And I'm to the point where like, I've made business cards and I'm just handing them out to people and maybe it'll lead somewhere. You know, I feel like that's my that's my reach right now. Well, yeah, exactly. So if like if it's feeling more soothing and soft to your nervous system right now to maybe pivot away from online and instead focus on your in-person reach, then absolutely follow that breadcrumb. It didn't it didn't pop up for no reason. Right. I love that so much. I love that so much because it's just a perfect example of like, you don't have to follow the way other people, mentors, educators, coaches,

people we look up to, you don't have to follow their way. It's not your recipe to follow because you are cooking something different. Yes. Thank you for saying that. Cause that's a big one. When I see it, it's the people that I admire. And then I get, because I'm dealing with these broad, spacey, airy concepts. When I see what someone else is doing, I easily get like roped in like, Oh, I should be doing it like that. When really like I was on the path and then I got diverted. Yep. I actually have a question for you then. Okay.

Business question. Ooh. Well, I just feel like I get a lot of advice. Like you should have one thing that you offer and make it like your core, unique, special thing and just focus on that. But I always have so many irons and so many fires. I was wondering if you could just speak to that. I think, well, the first thing that's coming to mind is getting really clear on what your definition of success is and discerning between how your definition might be different from their definition, right? And so if someone's definition of success is all about money and all about having like X amount of clients per year, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,

then yeah, it might make sense that their strategy is going to be to have one main thing that they focus all their attention in, basically putting all their apples in the same basket. But if that's not your definition of success, if that's not your definition of consistency and what makes you proud of the way you show up, then that's not supposed to be your strategy. So it comes back to just discerning between like, where am I going? And whose recipe am I wanting to follow? And again, leaning into your body for the wisdom. So if you kind of tell yourself, okay, I'm only going to focus on one thing, do you notice like a bunch of constriction in your body? Is there tension and heat? Is there butterflies in your stomach? Like just paying attention to your body's communication versus the alternative of, okay, I'm going to try all

these different things. And if that feels expansive to you, then my advice is to follow the expansion. Does that sort of help? I feel like there's not a correct answer to that question, right? Again, like this comes back to the whole business strategy narrative is a very like one size fits all. And that has worked for the bro marketers and like the boss babes and the people that are right like it's again it's it's following the way the patriarchy has designed our our world so I guess my question back to you is like which paradigm are you moving into that hits um whose rules do you want to follow? Oh, one project for myself, list out my rules, because I think a lot of, a lot of what I'm doing is moving from a pay, a place of fear and lack.

So I'll be very candid. Um, just coming out of this experience of like quarantine, right? Because I had a child and then we moved to a different state. And like the trajectory of life has kind of just kept me at home for the last three years. And financially, we're really struggling. So I go, I operate from this place of like, okay, this could, this could make me money immediately, or this could make me money immediately. And so it's like very like basic needs getting met are what are figuring my decisions. But if I, if I like zoom out, as you say, again, it's kind of those micro and macro goals, like you had touched on already. Yes. And it almost seems to me like I could set one goal for, um, for those basic needs. Like, okay, so this is like work that I will enjoy doing. It's not my perfect soul work, but like this will get me somewhere. So like focus on this, but then also focus on that, that one soul work project. So maybe having two things going on at once instead of. Yeah.

And also the permission to change your mind and remind yourself that just like nature, you are a seasonal cyclical creature and so is your business. what feels like it's going to work today with like what you have capacity for in like your mothering that could become I mean we know that's going to be completely different a year from now because sleep's going to look different their level of independence is going to look different your access to child care like may look different like it's all these moving parts that I think I think that's another big misconception. And maybe this again comes down to, it works in the bro marketing world because they have this level of consistency. They know what their timeline,

well, they're attached to timelines, first of all. That's another thing is detached to timelines. They don't serve you. But there's that level of security, right? Sorry, consistency. They know that they have hours of like nine to five or like they know they can just like pull it like what you know I mean like we don't have that luxury as mother entrepreneurs we are we unfortunately and as you said mothering is

our priority and so that means that everything we pour into our business is almost like the bottom of the cup. I hate saying that because that makes me so sad to say, but that means we have to be even more intentional about filling our cup up so that we're able to serve from a place of overflow. Because if we're serving, if we're pouring into our business from like a deficit of like the liquid in our cup that we literally don't have yet. We're constantly just going to feel like we need more. We're never going to feel content. We're never going to feel successful. We're never going to feel any source of fulfillment. So yeah, it really like the strategy then needs to, again, it comes back to itself. The strategy needs to be,

how can I fill my cup up so that I'm serving from overflow. And it really should be, this is why I feel boxed in sometimes coming at this from like the motherhood sector, because I feel like the word mothering or motherhood or whatever gets labeled on things. And people are like, oh, that's not for me. And this is why I want to say it is though, because you are part of a system, a family unit, broader systems from there that were raised by mothers, right? Everyone has a mother. Yes. Everyone. If you're not a mother, you have a mother, you know, a mother.

Yeah. Right. So to understand an experience outside of your own, I think is going to be a requirement for this shift, this larger shift to take place. So I'm glad that you named that and spoke to it. And you're actually reminding me of another one of the principles that my art and my work unfolds under. And that is that embracing a feminine approach to writing and all art making, one process takes precedence over production is what allows us to create from a place of ease. And so integrating that into my business has probably been the most difficult

thing because we have been conditioned to believe that formulas and like money being the desired outcome like that, that's the trajectory and the steps that we need to take to get there. But really when I slow down and I allow things to happen naturally, that's when, that's when things really fall into place. Like just reaching out to you and like asking to have this conversation with you. I feel like that was, that was a very slow evolution for me. It took me a couple of weeks to reach out and be like, Oh my gosh, I would really, I would really love to do that. Just do it. Just go for it. Just ask her. But like the best things happen. It was funny. Cause you're

like, how does one get on your podcast? I'm like, Kat, you just did it. That's literally all you had to do. You didn't have to raise your hand. There was something coming up for me, though, that I just wanted to maybe spiral down on for a second. And that's just comparing all of this to like the gestation process and pregnancy. And could you imagine if like the moment we find out we're pregnant? I mean, you probably can't imagine because there are women. And actually, like, I was sort of guilty of this, where we do try to follow this strategy and this template.

We start absorbing all of the pregnancy books and all the podcasts and we start trying to, we want to figure out, okay, how do I have a healthy pregnancy and how do I have a positive and empowered birth? And it's like like there isn't actually a rule book to follow there isn't you can't follow someone else's strategy on how to give birth um all you can do is start trusting your body and getting out of the way literally get your head out of the way and I think this is true for literally all aspects of creation. Yes.

The ideas of control that we put in place. Like if I learn X, Y, and Z, or if I follow this book on sleep training or whatever else, then it will get me the outcome that I want. And that's the if, then formula. Yes. And really, yeah, it's's and it's this and this. It's like I can be out of control and have some semblance of control at the same time. The duality of it all.

Totally. This conversation has been amazing. I mean mean I knew it would be I definitely didn't know that we would go in this direction I'm curious if you want to rein it back in and speak a little bit more about speak a little bit more about how poetry has had a profound effect in your mothering and in that intuition piece because I think I think even just narrowing it down is intuition that is such a fluffy word in itself even for myself in pregnancy like I remember thinking well I don't have an intuition what's that like I hear people saying oh you just need to connect your intuition like that like I'm like I don't have that how come some people have that where's where's mine um and again that that stems from all of the conditioning of really looking outside of

ourselves for answers. Thank you for asking that. I think this is that soul work that I'm really passionate about. I believe that everyone is born creative and we're all just little balls of intuition. And unfortunately we exist within these systems that are hell bent on us forgetting that fact because it keeps us where they need us in order for some people to have a lot. A lot of people need the systems get to make money if we aren't following our intuition. Yes. Yep. Yep. And like, tell me a system that doesn't follow that rule. Right. Like literally we could say that about healthcare. We could say that about birth. We could say that about school. We could say that about food. Could say that about pharmaceuticals. And again, once you see it, you can't unsee it.

And money begets money and power begets power. Like if we're going to shift this, I truly believe that we each need to understand how powerful we are as individuals. And I don't know that there's anything on earth that reminds you of your power quite like birth, quite like being a parent. Yeah. And it's not, I don't even want to say that because like not everyone gets to birth their babies. And like, this is for fathers too. This is for like everyone, like raising a human being in and of itself is powerful work. And I guess that that's it. When we recognize that power, that's when everything starts to shift, I think. And so going back to intuition, I believe that our bodies hold all the answers and that

they are attuned poem detectors. So what that means is our body speaks the languages of nature, of like everything around us, those languages that are older than words that we touched on earlier, like our bodies speak those languages. They just forget they're out of practice. So poetry is a tool that allows us to remember is what it feels like for me. And make sense of like our experience. Yeah, absolutely. And so when we're sitting with our physical forms, we're tuning in to not only our five senses, but our subconscious mind. So like the physical act of writing, there's this thing within wilderness therapy, it's rhythmic and repetitive. So things that are rhythmic and repetitive have the power to rewire our brains. That's why hiking is so beneficial and walking and running and yoga and breath work and all these things that we understand towires our brains and helps us become more evolved versions of ourselves. This is how I see it anyways. And so when we are physically writing, whether that's like

tapping on a keyboard or like putting pen to paper, when you go into that flow state, when you do it for long enough, you access like deeper layers of your subconscious, right? And I think this is why like a free flow journaling practice is so beneficial because it helps you access that state with more ease, quicker and quicker and quicker. And so you can kind of, I mean, at least for me, it's been true over the years, I can drop into this state a lot faster now than I could even two, three years ago, you know? Yeah. So things that are rhythmic and repetitive help us rewire our brains. So then the other plus side to writing in general is that when we're connected with our subconscious minds, it allows us to process our experiences.

And I know that I felt this way about this experience in my life, but through writing, I've come to understand the way that I feel about it. And now I can integrate what that means for me and like glean the gold as Nikki says, or, you know, find the lesson that's hidden. And I mean, you know, we can't always make meaning out of everything, but at the very least we got it out of our physical bodies and onto a piece of paper onto a screen. I think there's something to be said for that as well. And so in doing all of this, this is how we get back to that intuition

and rooting in our inner authority. So, so good. While you were sharing that, I was thinking about my mom. My mom has always been a writer. I remember growing up, she would write children's stories for myself. She never got anything published or anything like that, but she was always writing. And it's still one of her big goals to eventually write a book or publish something. But I don't remember what we were talking about recently, but we were talking about like journaling and I could sense for her, she's one of those people, she has literally kept every single journal, like she keeps them all. And so for her, I could sense that there was still a bit of perfectionism showing up in the sense of she wasn't willing to allow herself to just free write. There had to be purpose and there had to be clarity before she could put pen to paper. And I told her like, mom, like you don't, you can throw out that piece of paper, or maybe, maybe because you do keep every single journal, maybe you need to write it on a scrap piece of paper so that, you know, you can throw it out. And so I guess I just wanted to share that

because I can imagine there's going to be some women listening to this and the perfectionism of their journal and the permanence of their journal is potentially going to be a barrier to accessing everything you're speaking on. Yes, this is big foundational stuff here. So I only write in composition notebooks that are roughly 50 cents a piece. I write front to back, words misspelled, syntax, grammar out the window. This is why I think poetry is so helpful for mothers specifically, because you get to let go of everything you were taught. Yeah, no rules and no wrong way to do it like to be able to like freely say what you want to say almost like ee cummings the poet who like you'll read his work and it's like things are misspelled and like all over the place on the page and there's no

punctuation or whatever sometimes there is punctuation but it all serves a purpose and that's what i love about poetry is that what is stereotypically messed up or incorrect and what might be missing or misplaced, there's a purpose for it. And it deserves to be there. And it tells its own little story, right? And I think it's so important for mothers who's oftentimes like first area of attention is something outside of themselves that when they do sit down to do something for themselves, that it's not regimented, that it can just be whatever it needs to be and flow however it needs to flow. And I truly believe that like a simple notebook is a great place to start. And whether you decide you only want to write on one page or write just like one line per page, it's like, you can be creative. Like it doesn't have to look any specific way and expensive notebooks are really lovely, but I have found at least in my own practice, they don't hold my best work because I

can't let go. There's pressure. There's pressure with them. Yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent. That is so interesting to hear you say all that. And something that was coming up for me is the, the benefit that all of this has to our nervous system. And you haven't specifically used this language, but what I'm kind of taking away on top of all the benefits you've already shared with poetry is this also gives your nervous system the opportunity to learn that it is safe to show up messy and to take up space, even if it's just on paper, in a less than perfect way. And again, so many of us have been living in a world where we feel this pressure to always be perfect and to not make mistakes. And we unfortunately

value, or I guess like see our, our sense of self-worth. We measure it based on our performance and our perfectionism. So this really is an amazing tool to start showing the nervous system safety, that it's okay to make spelling mistakes. It's okay to not have like clear and concise thoughts. It's okay to write chicken scratch. It's like, it's all okay. It's just this massive permission slip and this massive exhale that so many of us need to be taking more often. Yes. Yes. Full body tingles for the way that you verbalize that. That's actually a key piece in what I'm creating right now within my business. Okay. Let's get into that. Cause I was going to ask you like, what's going on in your corner of the internet, or I shouldn't even, if you're're if you are, if you are stepping away from online work, then I should say what's going on in Maine? Because that's where you are. So yeah, tell me what's going on virtual work. I feel very passionate about it. But I also recognize that for my own mental health, like I really need to like get out and be with people in person.

I don't have. Yeah, so try to find that balance. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that aside, my two big offerings that I'm diving deep into right now are, well, I guess it's kind of three offerings. Matrescence mentorship. So kind of talking about the motherhood side of things that you and I have been discussing. Postpartum facilitation. So helping people create, like map out their ideal

postpartum experience. And I'm of the mindset that postpartum is forever. So I'm talking about like the postpartum, right? We're going to talk about like the first year after you give birth. Um, and what that looks like for you on a physical, emotional, mental, and potentially spiritual level and how you want, how you want that to look and then steps we can take to bring that to fruition. So those are like my two one-on-one services that I offer. And I'm going to go ahead and assume that with both of those, the tool in which you are guiding women to find these answers

is poetry. It's yeah, there is poetry involved, especially with the Matresson's mentorship. The postpartum facilitation, there's a good bit of writing, but it's really, it's just mapping things out. Like I offer some writing prompts and things of that nature. Um, but that's really more, it almost feels more like science-based than art-based. So, um, Jesse Harold, whom I mentioned earlier had this way that she framed postpartum and matricence. And I found it so fascinating that oftentimes with postpartum work, it's behavioral, it's skills-based. It's like, this is what you should expect from your body physically. And like what your newborn might need and like meal prep and stuff like that whereas matrescence is this artsy creative flux flow

state it's masculine versus feminine so again the patriarchy has taught us that okay this is postpartum and yeah it's like screaming masculine all over it because it's all about the doing it's all about your production in the home. And yeah, matrescence is like the feminine. Oh, I love that. This has totally just like deepened my sense and understanding of how matrescence fits into my work. This is beautiful. Yeah. And that's why I think postpartum and matrescence need a marriage of sorts. Yeah. Because one can't exist without the other, right? You are going through matrescence during your postpartum and vice versa.

Matrescence is life. We know this. But so is your postpartum. And I mean, that's true for people who might experience a miscarriage or like the moment you become pregnant or the moment that you adopt a child or like, however, parenthood shows up for you, this is then a lifelong experience. And it doesn't matter if your child is taken away from you for any reason, like this is still a part of your life forever, right? You will forever be postpartum. If you have been pregnant, you will ever forever be going through a state of matrescence. Um, Ooh, that was so exciting. I just got distracted.

I totally interrupted you. So those are your two one-on-one offerings. Yes. Okay. So I'm starting a group offering. Um, as of right now it's called mother writers. I don't foresee that name changing, but I get kind of caught up in names. You and I have discussed this like, around and around we go. Yeah. I'm pretty sure it will be called Mother Writers. Permission to change your mind. Tomorrow it might have a different name, but today it's called Mother Writers. Yes. Thank you. And like, I've already got it on my website. So if I change it now, it's going to be a huge overhaul. But essentially, it's a monthly membership of a community of people who are kindred spirits. So mothers, people who identify as mothers, writers and poets.

It's a space where we can come together, generate work, talk about nervous system regulation, talk about rewiring our brains, and then talking about matrescence and this paradigm shifting work that we're doing. So essentially taking everything that you and I have talked about today, but doing it twice a month. Monthly. I love that so much. I love that so much. I'm so excited for that to be birthed into the world. And so timelines around this, I think your intention is that by the time this episode is aired, this will be in full swing, right? Yes, in full swing. You should be able to sign up on my website and I'll have links on social media. And I'll make sure I have all those links in the show notes. And if anyone's interested in signing up, that is just so exciting. It's not something that's like far off in the future. This is like a tomorrow thing.

It's so exciting. Yeah. Yeah. I feel, I just want to go ahead. Sorry. I'm getting excited. And then I start talking and I'm excited. Me too. That's why I've been interrupting you like this entire time. Cause I've been so excited

this entire time. I'm just, this is like soul work. This, this is everything to me. And I'm just so excited and grateful that I got to say it out loud. How does that feel? How does it feel to share it out? Is this the first time you've really shared it publicly? Yes. I shared it with my husband and he was like, that's a great idea. Will it make money? Because we're in those financial constraints. Right. And I'm like, yes, it'll be a slow build. I'm sure. I don't have like, this is one thing that I hate about social media and like the, uh, the formulas that people want you to follow is that people are like, this is one thing that I hate about social media and like the, uh, the formulas that people want you to follow is that people are like, I just made this one post and it exploded overnight. And now I have a million followers and everybody's paying me money for X, Y, and Z. And

that's luck, baby. And also like the privilege of maybe you were paying for ads. I don't know, but like, it's not realistic for not everybody's body. Not everybody's nervous system can actually handle that much expansion. I just want to name that and declare that right now, again, weaving this back into birth. Could you imagine if you find out you're pregnant and the next day you were literally nine months pregnant, like this big, you're feeling like your body can't withstand that. So I, I mean, this isn't fact, but I, I would, I, I kind of am making an assumption that those people that have that luck, it's not sustainable. It's yeah. Like, yeah, they had that success for a day, for a week, for a couple of years, but it's not sustainable. And I don't

think their nervous systems are happy. So here, here, and you know, it kind of feeds into this belief that I have that I don't think I've ever vocalized, but like, I don't want a lot of followers on social media. And when I see that, what I think are fake accounts, follow me. I'm like block, block, block them all too. Exactly. I think about that all the time. Like, imagine if I didn't block all those accounts, I'd probably have like quadruple the following I have now, but no, I'm very protective of my community. Yeah. And I love that you do that because I want to be able, I'm not, I've never been like

a big DMer cause it like kind of wreaks havoc on my nervous system. So having a, I don't want to say audience, having a smaller community of people that I'm interacting with feels way better for my nervous system. And like, I don't want something like, again, with mother writers, when I envision it, I picture it just being a core group of people. I don't picture like 500 people signing up for it. Yeah. Because like, how are we going to interact with one another on a one-on-one basis? And my hope is that we feel empowered by what we write. And so we share what we write with one another, not for critique, just as a way to like make those connections that

we're seeking, right. To like lift one another up and cheer one another on and be like, I see you. I've, I've been there. I've felt that like, yes, I feel it. And I don't know how we would do that with hundreds of people on a zoom. Right. So that's not, that's not. Yeah, you wouldn't add. So add that to your list of rules. Yes. Oh, back to the list of rules, writing it down. So many potent things just came through there. I wanted to speak quickly on, I'm mindful of the time and I feel like we probably should try to wrap up, but I don't want to, because this conversation is so good.

I know. I wanted to speak on like the piece around money though. Like the fact that when you shared it with your husband and the first thing he says is like, oh, well, will it make hard um to I guess to discern if what we're creating is from the frequency of scarcity and lack and trying to like fill that gap of this needs to make money or it's like not worth my time which we've touched on already, or the frequency of like, this needs to be poured out of me because if it doesn't, I'm going to explode. And those are very different frequencies. And I can tell that this needs to be poured out of you, or you're going to explode because of the way you lit up and the way I could tell your whole system just like soften and exhaled as you got to speak it out loud. And so I guess my, first of all, I'm celebrating you for that because that's amazing. And it's beautiful to witness, especially

because I've been witnessing you in this like creation and gestation period for the past, what, six, seven months now, the time that we've known each other. So that's beautiful. But the second thing is really leaning into that feeling, that feeling of like, this needs to come out of me. Like this needs to be birthed because of the impact it's gonna have on people, not leaning into this needs to be birthed because this is how I'm gonna make money, right? Those are just very different energies to be positioning yourself from and if you can constantly lean into the first that's

going to pour out in your messaging and your copywriting and just the way you speak about it so yeah you're doing the thing it's so. This sounds like an amazing offering. I mean, your one-on-one offerings also sound amazing, but I, much like you, am just a big, big believer and get super hyped up about community and storytelling. So the group offerings are always just lots of fun. Yeah. Thank you. And thank you for helping me come back to that. I feel like I'm using the same words over and over again on this call, but that reframe of, I think it's like just awareness, like really being aware and intentional with the steps that I'm taking and leading from that place of joy and creativity instead of that place of fear and lack. And I just want to rewind. I think I did my

husband a disservice by saying, he said, but will it make money? That's my total paraphrase. He has actually been a phenomenal cheerleader for all of this work that I've done and all of these iterations of myself that I've gone through because the shadow work of business and becoming a different individual as you go through that while becoming a different individual through motherhood and as a wife and partner and all these other things, man, just having someone who continues to walk beside me on that path is, it's something. Yeah. I hear you on that. Cause it's the same story over here. So yeah.

Shout out to our husbands. Something else I was just thinking of is coming back to that place of serving from overflow. And this reminds me of, I think one of the masterclasses that Nikki did with us around money and pricing our offers and it kind of became this unanimous conversation within those of us that were on the call I can't remember like a high price tag to them. And there was more depth to that. But I'm curious if that is showing up for you.

And you don't have to answer that here I guess it's something to just think on but my my response and my own reflection to all of that is I think part of this paradigm shift as mother entrepreneurs and as mother entrepreneurs specifically serving mothers is we really need to start embodying that self-care piece and putting ourselves first. And with that comes making sure our offerings are priced at a point that compensates not just our time, but also our energy and like all the backend, not just like the backend tech stuff, but like the backend, like creativity stuff, because that is, that is time. That is our energy. And we are worthy of being compensated for that. And I think this is something that I've really had to move through is feeling like, well, I guess almost like this inner battle of,

well, if I price my offering lower, then I'm going to have more people sign up. It's going to be more accessible to people. But what ends up happening sometimes, and I mean, I think also this needs to be viewed from a perspective of money is just a currency exchange of energy, like really detaching from money as this just like heavily charged thing. We really need to start looking at money as this neutral energetic exchange. And so with that, I guess all I'm trying to say here is that as mother entrepreneurs, we really do need to start making sure we're compensating ourselves appropriately. I think not just for our communities, because the ripple is going to be into our communities, but also just to protect our own energy and space and create that sustainability. Because otherwise, we're going to have resentment towards our business, we're going to have communities, but also just to protect our own energy and space and create that sustainability because otherwise we're going to have resentment towards our business. We're going to have burnout.

We're going to have, we're just not going to be able to make ends meet. So again, filling our cup first and then serving from overflow is really what I come back to. And in that cup, unfortunately, money is included because money is in modern day how we, it's unfortunately a source of our survival. Yeah. I am here for everything you just said. I'm a pretty open person. I don't want to be embarrassed or fearful about talking about money because that sets the precedent that it has that kind of power over me and it should. And like, I don't believe that it can or that it should rather. So that's really interesting that you say that because it leads me back. What was that statistic that Nikki shared with us in the course where it's like within like male dominated societies, like X amount of money goes back into communities but um women tend to yeah yeah

reinvest their money back into their local communities at a rate of like i don't even want to quote it because i think i don't either but it was quite high yes it was yeah undeniable yeah yeah and i've read some books that also validate that statistic where yeah if the money is in the hands of women, there's just that more positive ripple effect to put it. Yeah. Yeah. And so part of me really wants like the whole like abundance theory thing. I think it's like kind of bullshit because like it requires a lot of privilege to even like talk about it. But, um, I would love for you and i to make millions of dollars because then i think it'll like funnel back into our communities but also i don't want that much i want again that expansion piece to

our nervous system can you actually hold that exactly actually want that or is that someone else's like yeah bread recipe that we're following when we don't actually want that piece of bread? Yes. Like, well, will $5 million make me happy or will I be more stressed out? And I, I think about that. I play the scenario out in my head and I have a very vivid imagination and I'm very good at dreaming up what things will be like. And I don't think that amount of money would serve me, you know? I love that you have that like. And I don't think that amount of money would serve me. You know, I love that you have that clarity. And that comes back to when I said like getting really, really clear on what your definition of success is, because I think it can be so easy

for mother entrepreneurs to just jump on that train of, okay, success in my business looks like six figures, looks like seven figures, looks like fill in the blank. And it's like, no, what, what does success actually look like? That's, and, and, and making sure it's in alignment with your values. And so often the work behind that defining success question is actually getting really clear on what your values is first. So many of us don't even have an answer to that yeah hell yeah community and intuition baby yeah yeah speaking my language oh this is so good i'm also just recognizing the there was some discomfort and shakiness in my own nervous system speaking on that money piece and i don't think it was because of my own insecurities or shakiness around it. I think it was just that it feels like this really taboo topic still. And it also feels against the

grain. So yeah, I guess there's some shakiness because it's like, from a primal standpoint, is me sharing some of that me sharing some of my views on how money and pricing offers and compensation in the feminine led business industry is that going to kick me out of the tribe right it literally does come back to the primal conditioning of yes just wanting to be yeah safety security heard seen recognized oh whoo that was good stuff yes thank you for sharing any final thoughts musings that you want to share i guess if i could leave people who are listening with anything, it would be a writing prompt to just kind of explore this process. had I would say using the five senses to list what home is so home looks like home smells like home sounds like home tastes like home smells like feels like home feels like um and I assume you're using home in the non-literal sense of like home in our bodies?

That's the best part. It's open-ended. It's open-ended. You get to choose. I love that so much. It could be your literal. There's no rules. You're not getting graded on this homework assignment.

You're not being graded and everything might be a message if you want it or need it to be. So if you choose home as your literal physical space, maybe that needs attention right now. Maybe if your version of home was your body, that's what needed attention. So whatever version of home you choose, I think it serves a purpose. Hmm. I love that. That just stirred up a question for me. And in your upcoming group membership, is part of the work done in those bi-monthly circles going to be around, I guess, shining light on the aspects of our writing to see, okay, what might this be like pointing in the direction of? Like, is that something that you see yourself facilitating?

This might be similar to what you're talking about, but what I really envision is kind of using it as a divinatory practice. So like gleaning messages from unexpected places. So, you know, there's like fire scrying where you like watch the fire and see what like symbols or shapes come up or like reading tea leaves. That's another divinatory practice. But like, can you go back through your old notebooks and see like themes that are popping up or something you wrote last week, just like take your pen and circle words that like feel good or hit somewhere in your body. Like, I feel like at all times,

our subconscious mind is like telling us what we need and giving us what we need, but we're just conditioned not to listen. So I definitely listen and not to see it. Right. We literally have like blinders on or, or rose, not even just tinted glasses that are distorting our view, making it blurry. Oh, I love that so much. That is just amazing. I'm so excited to get to read and hear more about it as you actually birth this creation into the world. Like I said, I'll make sure to share all the details for it in the show notes. So listeners know where to find it and know where to find you. I'm trying to think, is there anything else we need to touch on? I'm just so grateful. And I, I'm so grateful. I'm grateful that we got to speak about these

things that feel so important to me. I'm grateful that I got to dream and play with you and to like speak the writers out loud. It's, it's part of my creation process as well. So just thank you, what you're making here and what you do, like all of your work, Nicole is so powerful and impactful. And you're just a little lighthouse because I can tell that your intuition knows how to shine. And I appreciate that. And I learned from it every day. I am just going to let those words land and permeate into my being right now, because that feels so good. Thank you. receiving that um wow yeah thank you so much and thank you thank you for being here thank you for your vulnerability your openness just

sharing your energy thank you for allowing yourself to be uncomfortable and ask to be on the podcast and it makes me uncomfortable I know that I need to do it that's like what I've learned isn't that funny how that's yeah yeah well I think it means like you've met an edge and like it's like okay do you want to expand here or do you want to allow this edge to keep you small yeah I saw a person wearing a sweatshirt the other day that said seek discomfort and I was like we need to be friends okay before you go I just wanted to say thank you for taking the time to listen to this episode if you were thinking of anyone while listening please send it their way and if anything resonated with you or you love these conversations please subscribe and leave a review this really helps the podcast algorithms put my show in front of more people just like you and the last thing I would love nothing more

than hearing from you so say hi dm me on instagram and give me a follow at nicolepasvir until next time