REWILD + FREE - 57. LIVING IN YOUR GENIUS + UNCENSORING YOUR WILDEST WISDOM WITH @RACHAELMADDOX

Episode Date: October 10, 2024

In this episode, I'm THRILLED to be joined by Rachael Maddox. Head Witch and Business Alchemist with over 15 years experience. Somatic Trauma Specialist who's supported over 1000 people on their post-traumatic growth journeys. 2-Time Author. Serial Creative. Mom to a very small rascal. And wife to a real life wizard. Rachael is turned on by supporting World Changing Witches birth their most powerful contributions and experience wild abundance while doing so, and she’s devoted to pouring her genius into the cultivation of a more beautiful world.In this episode, Rachael and I discuss: Rachael's personal journey marrying her soul's alivenessMore accurately defining the buzzy language of "somatic healing" and post traumatic growthHow to cultivate safety (and sustainability) in seasons of change including the building phase and deconstruction The cultural trauma of capitalism and how this has created a collective hyper self-sufficiency  in entrepreneurship and motherhoodThe importance of real community aka coven creation (solidarity, celebration and support) How the innate need for belonging is stronger than the need for self expression and why this makes it hard to marry your soul’s true aliveness The double edge sword of modern motherhoodEntrepreneurship as a self initiation journey The importance of non-extractive and relational marketing/business creation This conversation is rich with personal anecdotes, wisdom, and practical advice, whether you're navigating the creative cycles of entrepreneurship or the patriarchal demands of motherhood. If you're vibing with the themes discussed in this episode, and are craving covenship and ritual in your business, I invite you to JOIN ME in Rachael's upcoming cohort of Business Witchery: 7 Rituals to Uncensor your Wildest Wisdom in your Work and the World ..Resources mentioned in this episode: CACKLE: UNLEASH YOUR GENIUS WITCH in a free mini ritual at rebloomtogether.com/cackle BUSINESS WITCHERY (affiliate): Click here to join the waitlist for the upcoming cohort, registration opens Oct 17, 2024*Early bird pricing $770 if you register before Oct 22nd ($70/mo payment plan option available) **Regular pricing $880 from Oct 22-31 ***BONUS SECRET COVEN with me if you join using my link // including private group zoom calls + voxer support for deeper integration and soul stirring ..Connect with me on IG @nicolepasveer and let me know what stirs for you from this episode! Connect with Rachael on IG at @rachaelmaddox

The unfinished business lives in the body. And I also think it lives at the soul level, right? So I think that's sort of where the blend happens for me is that it is physiological, like the soul expresses through the cells of the body, right? We talk about spirit as sort of like the out there energetics, the bigger energy, the one source or whatever. But the soul is the embodied expression of your divinity and your purpose on this planet, your genius. It's all embodied at the soul level. And I think the soul expresses through ourselves.

You're listening to Rewild and Free. This is the go-to podcast for conscious and holistic mother entrepreneurs who are ditching society's to-do list for intentional living, freedom, and abundance while creating impact and legacy in their home and business. If we haven't met yet, I'm Nicole Pazvir, your like-hearted mom friend and biz bestie wrapped in one. I'm an ex-nurse turned matrescence guide and business coach leading women just like you into the new paradigm where thriving in motherhood is your birthright, and so is a successful and sustainable online business. Keep listening if you're ready to unsubscribe from patriarchal motherhood,

bro marketing, and boss babe culture. Because in this space, we use nature as our framework as we move towards feminine embodied business development, cyclical orientation, and slow living. Together, let's rewild and remember as we break free from survival and reconnect to what truly matters. Okay friend steep your tea and take the most loving breath you've given to yourself today and let's go. Hello hello you are listening to episode number 57 of the rewild and Free podcast. This particular episode was actually recorded back in May and so if you're listening in real time it's October 10th 2024 and so the conversation that you are about to hear was recorded a couple months ago and so obviously

the world has kept spinning and things have continued to evolve in both mine and Rachel's lives. We talk about the season of motherhood we're in and the season of business we're in and obviously some of that feels like an entire lifetime or multiple lifetimes ago and I think that is just a true testament of the way life works right now. I will say that this episode is extremely special for me. Like I said, it was recorded several months ago and it was right before I decided to take some time offline so it didn't feel authentic or in integrity to my values to publish it if I wasn't going to be online to talk about it so I've been sitting on it and of course as things do it all makes perfect sense

now and it all just feels like divine timing that it's ready to be published now and I think some of the medicine in this conversation I know served as really potent insights for me to listen back to in this season of my life both in my mothering journey and my my business journey so I have no doubt that there will also be some potent insights and medicine for you as well. In this episode, I am joined by Rachel Maddox. If you aren't familiar with Rachel, she is, in my opinion, a leader in the online space right now. She considers herself a business alchemist with over 15 years of experience. She's also a somatic trauma specialist who's supported over a thousand people on their

post-traumatic growth journeys. She's a two somatic trauma specialist who's supported over a thousand people on their post-traumatic growth journeys. She's a two-time author. She considers herself a serial creative. I can relate to that. Mom to a very small rascal and wife to a real-life wizard. Rachel's work in the world is fucking incredible. She is honestly leading a revolution that I am so on board with and be a regenerative human and not just continuing to give like too much of yourself or to extract from others or um whatever other kind

of flavor that might look like so definitely keep listening because we go deep into just non-extractive business creation and relational, conscious, ethical marketing. We also talk about just this cultural trauma of capitalism and how that is showing up and weaving into this kind of collective hyper self-sufficiency and understanding that it's learned at such a young young young age and essentially like praised by society we also talk about just kind of some of the double standards in motherhood right now and ultimately just how to exist in a culture that really isn't supportive of a lot of the things that I talk about in this podcast. We also talk about de-shaming serial entrepreneurship and the importance of finding safety in seasons and essentially finding sustainability in both the building phase and

during the deconstruction phase and again during seasons of rest. You'll hear that in this conversation we go on so many tangents as it always happens when people are in my zoom room. Some of my favorite conversation or some of my favorite aspects of this conversation though involve just simplifying what somatic healing is and what it looks like and simplifying what it means to really tap into your zone of genius and actually embody your true essence and embody yeah just more of your aliveness and I think that's really the core and the anchor of Rachel's work right now at least in this season of her business. I have no doubt that there's going to be some soul stirring and some full body tingles in this episode. I also want to extend an invitation to the next cohort of business witchery that Rachel is leading starting on Halloween.

So again, if you're listening to this in real time it is October of 2024 and Rachel is about to open up registration for her third cohort of business witchery and I am proud to be an affiliate and more so than that I'm proud to be taking part in this next round I also did her her last cohort in the spring and I'm continuing to integrate some of the the potent um oh gosh I don't even know what the right word is here it's more than just insights it's like cracking myself open in ways that like I didn't even know was possible and then needing to resource myself enough to have the courage to actually act on what my inner wisdom has been telling me and I've been sitting with that kind of all these months later and I'm so excited to do this work again and and tap into

these rituals again because it really is life-changing work and it's evolutionary work it's not like let's let's fix or heal something overnight it's like let's actually like deepen and embody whatever it is that we are touching on and truly integrate it into our lives and yeah just go to greater depths in the things that really light us up. And so anyways, yeah, this episode has a lot. I really hope you enjoy it. And if you're not already following, make sure to give Rachel a follow online. And yeah, let's get into it. Hi, Rachel. I'm so excited to have you. I feel like this is such an honor and a privilege to have you in my Zoom room right now. So welcome. Welcome to the Rewild and Free podcast.

Thank you. I'm psyched to be here with you, Nicole. Yeah. We were just talking about our kids before we hit record and just kind of reflecting on the season of motherhood we're in. And so I have a two and a half year old and I think you have a fresh one year old. Is that right? Yeah. One and some change. And you were just saying you were about to start talking about toddlerhood. And I was like, wait a second, we should just press record on this conversation. We should. Yeah. I was about to just kind of reflect on the fact that, I mean, I probably say this in like every new season of motherhood that I enter, but it's like the hardest and the best like just the the duality

of it all is so so big and like we have what feels like the hardest days but then also like the best days and like her her language is is blossoming right now and I can actually have like little conversations with her and like she's starting to do like the imaginative play so like she gets her like toy stethoscope and plays doctor with me. And like it's those little moments. But then she also has really big feelings and those big emotions and having to regulate myself and those tantrums. It's all of it. All of it.

Wow. Wow. Yes. Well, our baby who's just turned one is like he's moving. He's so fast. And he's also very talkative without having words. Yeah. But it's sort of like, I feel like from the time I wake up at 6.30 in the morning with my baby alarm clock until he goes down for his first nap at like eight or so, I'm running.

So I'm getting my morning workout, just chasing my baby. The cardio. Yeah. And my friend Nisha Moodley, who you might know, she said the secret we never tell brand new moms is that toddler momming is harder than baby momming. When I think it like eases you into it. Like I think looking back at like the first like two, three months, like they're that newborn potato and like you're kind of just like learning really how to like take care of something outside of yourself and like learning to like feed and take care of them just being that like 24 hour person for them. And then they're not really moving yet. And then like they start moving and they start needing you in a different way. And yeah, I was even reflecting on like what right

now looks like compared to a year ago so a one and a half year old compared to a two and a half year old and the level of presence that's not the right word because I feel like either way I've still been present but like the just like the the supervision I guess is different right like a one and a half year old like she was moving a lot but she she wasn't like arguing with me yet. And she wasn't necessarily like completely getting into trouble. And she wasn't listening to like my conversations. And now it's like, I can't even like talk to someone without her like, asking some really like beautiful questions and wanting to be involved. And it's just so,

so different. I like love it. And it hard oh my gosh well my one-year-old is getting in trouble constantly so I can't even imagine what he's gonna be like exactly is he walking yet or just like on the move crawling oh he's like he's walking yeah and you know my husband and I are both rule breakers. And so my mom is constantly just laughing and being like, payback, baby, payback. either is just even navigating the the dynamic of like that relationship shift and like how even just my mom and I we actually just went on a girl's trip last week me my mom and my daughter and just like yeah the shift of like I'm no longer like just your daughter and you're not just my mom anymore and there's like this whole I don't even know how to explain it. I'm still kind of suggesting this baby together. Yeah. Yeah. It's incredible. It's the most incredible thing.

And I remember my dad telling me when I was younger that, you know, he and his mom had a hard relationship when he was growing up because she had him when he, she was 17. And then there was just a lot of, a lot to it. Yeah. But he he was like as soon as I had kids it all shifted and I could see her through a different light yeah and so much more compassion and so much more perspective and I know that's not true for everyone but I feel like becoming a mom and my parents becoming grandparents has only made us like so much closer yeah I love that is are you like did is your son the first grandkid in in your family yeah so it's like a big deal me too so there's like a lot of hype with that and yeah it's it's a very special time to get to witness and be a part of um totally we kind of just jumped in I would love to for

those that don't know who you are um who are you what what are you doing on this world right now? What are you doing on the internet? Yeah. Uh, well, my name is Rachel Maddox. Hi, this has been a sweet introduction, just talking about babies. Um, I am a business witch among other things. I'm a two-time author. I'm a somatic trauma resolution specialist. And currently my deep passion is helping beautiful souls who have big world-changing visions bring their genius forward in more powerful ways and make great money doing it. I'm really passionate about the transformation of our collective and those of us who have liberatory healing, good for the world visions, having the resources that we need and those resources being in the form of money and also in the form of community and support. Love it. Yeah yeah so you and I know each other because I'm currently in this cohort of

business witchery um which what is it is it a seven week I mean we don't need to explain it we'll drop links so if you're interested in what business witchery is there's gonna be links it's two months of ritual uncensor your wildest wisdom in the work, in your work in the world. Yeah. And it's incredible. And like you are leading like literally just like a shift in, and I think what like entrepreneurship can look like. And I would love to hear a little bit more about like when you started identifying as a witch or maybe more specifically when you started identifying as a business witch? Yeah, totally. I mean, I've been a witch since I was a kid. Did you know?

Or like, were there just like bits of it? Like, I think I'm, yeah, I don't know. What did that look like as a kid? Okay. Yeah, I was stealing candlesticks from the grocery store with my bestie. And we were doing like seances in the, at the top of the suburbs. Full on, like teenage witch. Spell books. I love it. You know, we branded ourselves. Full on, like teenage witch. Spell books. I love it.

You know, we branded ourselves, like I burned myself. I have like a scar sister, a witch scar sister from when I was like 10 years old. I was also cast as a witch in my elementary school play of Macbeth. And my mom had been the witch in Wizard of Oz

when she was in like high school or something. So I grew up with her doing the monologues and cackling in the kitchen. And then I was also the witch in Into the Woods. So I was like always cast as the witch in plays. It was a typecast thing. But then in terms of the business witch thing, I've been doing ritual and just really living a mystic path, the path of listening and contributing, right? The dance between how can I follow guidance and how can I also share what my desire is with the world, with the universe, and meet in the middle in that co-creative place between my will and life's will for me. So I've been living that path very devotionally and wholeheartedly basically my whole adulthood. I had a really beautiful mentor in my

teenage years that influenced me in that direction for the better. And it was such a blessing and such a gift. And then over you know, over the years, I started my coaching career really young. I was the youngest person in my coach training, like when I was 21 years old, way, way back in like 2011 or something like that. I don't know if that math adds up, but whatever. Point is, it was a long ass time ago. And I really, actually my first brand as a business was real life magic. So before I got into the trauma resolution, I was doing magic with people. I had matchbooks that were golden that I had printed that said magic 17 on them. And we would do these rituals where I would ship them the matchbook. They would light the match on zoom and they would,

I would ask them a question and they would have the time it took for the match to burn in their finger, like down to their fingertip, to answer the question. So I was literally playing with the magic and the alchemy of fire and what the fire wanted to transform. So I would do seven, 20 minute, 17-minute sessions with people. They were these magic matchbook sessions where it was like, we're going to ignite the truth. And we would record them. They would get the recordings. And it was a whole thing.

So I was doing magic before I was doing trauma resolution. And then I had my own journey around, I actually ended up having cancer on my clit oh my god worse than ever i'm better now regenerative cells it's a miracle yeah um but i really went down a path of trauma healing from that like was this in your early 20s we're still talking about the same yeah mid-20s so, I was like having all kinds of issues and challenges, you know, both in terms of dating and sexuality and all that. And also in terms of like my physical vagina. And it was really a wake up call and an invitation to go on a deep trauma resolution healing journey, which I did. I found an incredible mentor and I

apprenticed with her for many years. And I ended up writing two books in the realm of trauma, Secret Bad Girl, which is a sexual trauma memoir and resolution guide, and Rebloom, which is seven archetypes for post-traumatic growth. And both of those books were really well received. And I worked, you know, with hundreds of women with sexual trauma. And then I ended up training coaches in the realm of trauma and post-traumatic growth and facilitating that with their clients. And then speaking of motherhood and how it all kind of connects, I wanted to get pregnant. And it had been seven years since I'd gotten the first cancer diagnosis. And I had been really devoted to the field of trauma during those seven years. I mean, thousands of people I'd worked with either in groups,

classes, trainings, or one-on-ones. And I got a call from my doctor because I'd been rupturing cysts on my ovary. And I was trying to figure out what was going on because I knew I wouldn't get pregnant if I had cyst rupturing. And the doctor was like, well, you got to come in because we think it could be cancer. And I hung up the phone and I knew in that moment that my seven-year contract had completed because it was literally seven years to the day because I had gotten the diagnosis on my birthday when I turned, I think, 27 or something. And then it was seven years later, 34. I was like, I'm done. Chapter's closed. And at that point, my trauma resolution career, I was doing a really intensive 18-month certification training with a really big team and 75 students. And it was a lot of pressure. It was a lot of pressure and it was a lot of stress.

And it was beautiful. It was beautiful, powerful, potent work. And I still love that body of work. And I love the self who did it. And I love the students and the people that were on my team. And it also was not where my life wanted to go. It was not the right coherence for the true aliveness of my soul. And I knew that, and I knew that that chapter needed to close. So I closed that company down. And I want to stop you for a second and zoom in on that. Well, actually first, I want to backtrack for a second and kind of define what trauma resolution looks like for you and when you're referring to it. Because I feel like that's a big word in itself that people have different meanings for.

And I'm pretty sure for you, there was a lot of somatics involved. And I think that's where kind of the story weaves into the cancer diagnosis and all of that. So I'll let you share. Yeah, totally. I mean, the way that I've always defined trauma is an embodied emergency hangover.

So good. Embodied emergency hangover. So it's a hangover from an emergency in the past that stays stuck in your body. Yeah. And just like any hangover, it wants some TLC. It wants to resolve. But the challenge with that is when we don't offer the body and the soul the opportunity to go back to the emergency, or when the emergency feels too dangerous to revisit in a very present way, that emergency ends up secretly running our lives. Our fear of that emergency happening again ends up secretly running our lives and oftentimes repeating itself in one form or another. So the way that I worked with trauma was with a lot of present tense awareness on what's happening below the story at the body or soul level as you gently and slowly revisit whatever the emergency was. And then we add capacities

from present time to that past self. So the past self can have in the imaginal realms, a new experience with that emergency. And this is where honestly, you know, magic, witchcraft, trauma resolution, they're all the same thing. I mean, really being the same thing. Nervous system. Totally. The trauma resolution wizards, they're doing time travel, embodied time travel and repair work. I mean, it's all's a very similar um like yeah body of work right and it ends up being kind of that that body soul mind connection through like a holistic lens and like obviously like incorporating and befriending your nervous system and increasing that capacity and that that window of tolerance for whatever it is that you are facing and it's it's so much deeper than just

like mindset and talk therapy and I think that's at least what I'm seeing is like there's this big shift now in kind of like the healing space. I keep using quotes in the healing space where we are realizing that like we can't just stay in the mind. We can't just do like a top-down approach and like loads and loads of talk therapy and mindset work and like reading off affirmations. Like we have to start listening and communicating with our body. Yes, 100%. Yeah, because the unfinished business lives in the body. And I also think it lives at the soul level, right? So there's, I think that's sort of where the blend happens for me is that it's not, it is physiological, like the soul expresses through the cells of the body.

Right? We talk about spirit as sort of like the out there energetics, the bigger energy, the one source or whatever. But the soul is the embodied expression of your divinity. I love that distinction. Yeah, and your destiny and your purpose on this planet, your genius, it's all embodied at the soul level. And I think the soul expresses through ourselves. Yeah, because the unfinished business lives in the body. And I also think it lives at the soul level, right? So there's, I think that's sort of where the blend happens for me is that it's not, it is physiological. Like the soul expresses through the cells of the body. For instance, we do rituals, but then we have these coaching councils where I do somatic trauma resolution, basically one-on-one with people in front of the group. And they're short

sessions, but they're fucking powerful. And in those sessions, that's where we slow down to work with the cellular memory that wants to shift at the nervous system level. But the ritual is what brings you back into contact with the truth that your soul is wanting to tell you, the truth that your soul is wanting to show you. Go here, let go of that, release this, heal that. That's what the ritual shows you. And then you get to do the deeper somatic trauma resolution pieces at the nervous system level for where things are really stuck. Yeah. I see it kind of as like the frequency and the form, right? And frequency being the energetics of the nervous system and like the body stuff, the soul stuff,

and then form being, what are we actually like visibly putting out in the world? And like, what's the embodiment of that body or soul's expression? Right. Is it relaxed? Is it coming from, you know, anxiety? Yeah. What's the come from energetically? Yeah. Okay. Coming back to like the the the timeline and the story that you were sharing so you're running this 18 month coaching certification program and you're now realizing that there's some incongruence I want to hear more about that

like what does that I guess more on a tangible level look and feel like for you? Yeah, for me, I had enrolled a lot of students for an upcoming cohort. We had signed half a million dollars in contracts. I had a 20-person team who had already been working for a few months to prepare for this training. And everything in my body and my soul said, if you keep going, you won't get pregnant. If you keep going, these cysts won't stop. And so I made a choice and it was a really hard choice. You know, I considered, okay, could someone else run this? Could I postpone this? But it was such a clear seven year cycle. You know, they talk about every, all the regenerative cells in your body renew every seven years and like relationship cycles happen in seven years. And I just felt like this chapter is complete.

Bless it. I'm so grateful for it. And it's complete. And I mean, I had written a 400-page book. I had spent years building this reputation as like this is my career and this is my path and this is what I'm known for and this is what I'm an expert at. And I just didn't really want it anymore. I didn't want the form that it was in. And so I closed my company and I let go of everyone except for like my bookkeeper and my tax accountant or whatever, you know? And I had to, and I refunded all of the contracts, half a million dollars. And I paid my team for the

work they did out of my pocket. And I got really small with my business. And I had these small, you know, executive coaching, CEO coaching covens with four to six people. And the cysts went away within three months and I was pregnant within six months. And during that time of like pregnancy and gestation and quieter, smaller, I just kept asking myself the question, if I could do anything, what would I want to do? You know, I had what I needed financially from what I was doing at the time, but it wasn't like fully fulfilling my soul and my calling. It was good. It was great. It served its purpose, right? It was meaningful, but it wasn't like the fullest expression of my soul. That soul fulfillment, had you felt it before that moment? Did you have

something to compare it to, to know like it's missing right now? Or was it something that you had been searching for this whole time? Yeah, I think the way that I like to think of soul fulfillment or what I like to call marrying your soul's aliveness is- It's going to shift, isn't it? It's not like one destination, you've arrived and you stay there. It's going to shift with different seasons of life. Yeah. It's just that you have different seasons that want different things. I mean, you know, like becoming a mother, your soul's aliveness. Oh my God, all I want to do is fucking be on a beach chilling, you know? I want things peaceful and abundant. Like I'm not out here chasing. I'm out here to receive because I'm already chasing a baby. So every season of our life is different. And I had, I'd had lots of different seasons of fulfillment and feeling really alive and feeling really resonant and coherent. And it's just that what I had been doing had lost its luster. Yeah. You know, side note, I want to sort of go on a little rant about this because I don't know if you've been seeing people, and maybe you've even said this, who knows, but I feel like there's this current trend in the coaching industry where people are like, when your exactly the boring and that plateau is almost

the goal um and i i get it to an extent but at the same time like yeah you go on your let's hear it let's hear it i disagree yeah i disagree i fucking disagree i do not think we should be aiming for a boring business well could you imagine if that was the goal with like marriage like well okay from a trauma healing perspective I understand what people are saying they're like okay sometimes when you have histories of trauma and dysregulation uh stability can feel boring and then you want to like chase the next drama or chase the next high or whatever I get that But like, not all of us have that problem. We're not all like, I feel like saying boring business is the goal is talking to people as if

we are all just dysregulated chickens with our heads cut off. No, we're not. We are more adult than that. And guess what? We can have pleasure. We can have excitement and we can have regulation and like capacity. So when I hear people starting to like go on a kick about this, I'm like, who's feeding this story out into the world? And is it really good for us? I almost feel like it kind of perpetuates the more like masculine patriarchal growth is linear, must go up, up and up kind of like perspective on things where like things need to kind of like just be on the straight and narrow, like stay in your own lane, stay in this box. Right. And like stick with your boring business. And maintain that reputation that people know you for. You're not allowed to change. And if

you pivot, then you're failing. No, you're so... I love that. I love that. I love that. Yeah, because there's this whole kind of like, once it gets boring, that's how you know you're stabilizing. And then that's how you know you're safe. And I just think there can be safety in change. I was going to say, so that's kind of where the error is in that messaging is that stability and boring aren't synonymous. They're not the same thing. You can have stability and it not be boring. You can have stability with change and growth and cycles and ebbs and flows. Yeah. So I like to think of myself as a serial creative. I got fucking ADHD. I'm an Aquarius out here. I cannot stop myself from wanting to make new things. And the idea that that is somehow like bad or wrong, you know what I mean? It's just meh, not into it.

And as somebody who is committed to her art and the aliveness of her soul and fulfilling the expression that wants to come through in each season of my life, I have learned that I'm going to have seasons of let's go this way now, let's go that way. And because I have learned that I'm going to have seasons of let's go this way now, let's go that way. And because I've learned that, I have, okay, when it's time for the destruction, what do you do to hold you over? Also, when it's time for the big build, right? Right now I'm in a season of building. I created Business Witchery. Okay. So to go back to the original story, right? I kept asking myself, what would I do if I could do anything? And it was like, I just want to do magic with people. I want to go back to magic, right? I want to do magical rituals with magical

people for magical causes. And Business Witchery was born born which is all about helping people uncensor their wildest wisdom in their work and our world so anyway i'm in this building i'm about to publish business witchery as a book i've got these gorgeous hand-drawn guidebooks that are creative dream come true i've always wanted to hand draw a book it's so fun and magical and i'm turning it into a book book so the hand-drawn hand-drawn will be interspersed with text. And people can go through these rituals on their own just with the book. Or there'll be an audio program that they could use, or they could come live to the Zoom calls, right? So there's three different ways that they could engage with the body of work. Guess what? That shit costs time

and money. Making an audio program, finding my book team, getting a publicist to go on podcasts. So I'm in a building phase. Guess what the building phase needs? It needs money, which means it needs innovation. All I'm saying is when we're building or when we're deconstructing, you have to know, how do I do that? How do I build in a way that's sustainable? And then how do I sustain for however long I want to, right? Once business witchery builds, builds, builds, builds, I might do it for another year or two. And then I'm going to fricking descend. I'm going to be like, I'm done. I don't want to do this anymore. When I'm on my descent,

how do I still have financial support? How do I still have stability? Well, I've got my old things I can go back to. I can always do one-on-one coaching for a little while, or I can always do a sale of some of my old material or whatever. And then when I'm in the rest stage, before I rebuild something new, where do I have stability? So this is the cycle of life, build, sustain, descend, rest. Yes. I'm so glad you're bringing this up because I talk about the seasons so often and cyclical embodiment, not just in our personal life with our menstrual cycle and even seasons of motherhood, but also in our business and like the cycle of creation. So I love that you just brought up this, the ascent of like building and the momentum and the innovation and the financial abundance that truly is required and the time that's required for that too, and the devotion to whatever it is you're moving towards

and then resourcing yourself in that descent and then even more so in that season of rest I know that's something that I think for myself and again a lot of my listeners like that season of rest is the most uncomfortable that winter season because again society has praised us for so long to be in this basically in perpetual summer perpetual spring and summer always creating always um giving outside of ourselves and that obviously is not sustainable and does not nurture like our souls actual alignment in terms of what we need. So I love that you just weaved that into the conversation. It's so important. So important. And if you think of like, you know, your business or your body of work as a garden, right? Like you do, you need that. I like to think of water as a metaphor for money. You need the water that resources the growth and then you need the water that's going to sustain it in the summer. But then when you harvest in the fall, if you preserve, you have

what you need in the winter. And that's, again, why I'm not in favor of this boring business movement, because the boring business movement is saying, stay in summer, stay in summer, stay in summer. And it's like- That boring business movement, like I said, it's perpetuating kind of a lot of the systems of oppression for lack of a better word that so many of us are trying to get away from and heal from and change the world around. And I think it's, it's also just again, perpetuating like extraction from ourselves and from the things outside of us and it's it's just not developing the spaciousness that we need for like a sustainable pace and also like the the space to

be in like a receivership mode I think that's something else that I would argue that like a lot of women specifically really really struggle with totally yeah and then like snowball in all the other things like perfectionism and like overachieving and people pleasing and how that interplays and interweaves into like the ascent and the descent and where that shows up oh it gets complicated so juicy though Well, and also just if we weave motherhood back in, right? Because as the biological caretakers, primary caretakers of our babies, we know that we have to show up. We know that we have to show up and give of ourselves. It's ingrained in us.

If we want our babies to survive, we have to show up and be generously present and giving. And so we're in a culture that doesn't recognize us for that financially, structurally. Which means we're then giving from an empty cup. We're serving our families out of depletion, not from overflow. Yeah. And it's hard. Like for instance, I'm really committed to being an extremely present mother. And I, you know, I have a one-year-old and I work about 20 hours a week, depends on the week, sometimes a little more, a lot of times a little less. But in my time working, I'm constantly asking myself, is this actually going to support the lifestyle that I really want in being a mother. And I feel like there's an opportunity

for healing as moms, as women, as females, an opportunity to heal these patriarchal structures. It's not easy. It's not easy. It's kind of like shooting the moon, right? Because there's so much working against us. But the opportunity is to say, I want to live in my genius. I want to receive everything I need to have a nourished life and to resource my visions for a more beautiful world. And I want to show up for my family. I want to show up for, or if you don't have a family, for what matters most to me and for the relationships and the passions that nourish me all at the same time. How do I do that? How do I do that? And I think for a lot of us, it can feel impossible. And that's where I really love the question, impossible unless. Impossible unless what?

Right? And a lot of times the unless is you got certain layers of support. You got help in certain ways. You focused only on what you were fucking phenomenal at and you stopped doing all the other shit and you got other people you stopped doing all the other shit and you got other people to help you with the other shit so you could actually get like a lot better at what you're phenomenal at instead of trying to hold everything yeah just because we're biologically wired to hold doesn't mean we're supposed to hold everything yeah yeah yeah it is I'm trying to just like formulate my thought here and digest all that because I feel like once you see it you can't unsee it kind of like the um just the the layers and the interconnect interconnectedness of motherhood and like creation of a human being and also creation of like a

business like business baby human baby like there's there's a lot of similarities and I think um again like so many of us have been ingrained to be in kind of that like hustle and grind over deliver overachieve um and we end up like betraying ourselves in the process and I think that happens both in business and in motherhood and I don't know where I'm going with this I'm literally just like digesting in real time. Well, I wonder for you, you know, if you have this experience that I have, which is just like, I am with my, I'm with my kids so much. I'm with my kid every morning when he wakes up, every night when he goes to bed, like from 6.30 AM until, you know what I mean? Like I'm with him

all the time. I'm actually, in terms of his waking hours, it's about three hours a day that I'm not with him. And the amount of guilt I have almost every day is so vast. And I think part of it is like, you know, he's with my husband, my husband, I'm the breadwinner of our family in this season of our lives. And he's with my husband, which is wonderful. I mean, and a lot of people, their kids are in daycare or whatever, which is also fine. But the point is just the amount of... I think there's a both and between our desire to be with our kids and the cultural programming of patriarchy that says you can only be the mom if you're the mom. Right. And like this is what the box looks like to be in that perfect mom category.

And obviously none of us can make it happen because it's not actually real. being a woman and being a mom in this age is like work, provide, be at least like on equal footing with your partner and be a full-time mom. Yeah. And be a present conscious don't partner. Yeah. Like it's all of it. And I think, and a sex goddess, the way and not exactly and yeah and like and like don't lose yourself like don't right it's like so many things that are required from us and again that's just perpetuating this like extraction there's it's normalizing not putting ourselves first because we are subconsciously always praised to be putting something else before ourselves and I know for me I I didn't identify as like a people pleaser or like good girl until I started uncovering more around the nervous system and understanding like the fawn response and how my my desire to fit in or please someone else and like not rock the boat

and trying to like maintain that reputation of the box that I want to be recognized in I didn't recognize that that was actually like a nervous system survival response until a couple years ago and since then I've done lots of work to like just dissect into that and understand it more but the point of my story is like my entire life I've basically been conditioned to be this good girl to be like pretty perfect and pleasing and always just putting someone else before myself and I think both business and motherhood have given me that opportunity to kind of rewrite the narrative there and break the rules break free from kind of the status quo and recognize the corruptness of the status quo. And like, wait a minute, this doesn't actually like serve me or my family or future generations if I continue to do things the way they've always been

done. And that goes both in business and motherhood. Curious, like what your thoughts are on all of that? Well, this is what I am so passionate about in this season of my life, which is I really deeply believe that what I call world changing witches, you know, whatever you identify as, but you're here to do truly soulful work that changes the world, even if it changes the world in a quote unquote small scale way. Like I deeply believe that we need to be resourced, not just now, but into the future. We need the resources to be able to make choices that are different than our systems of oppression and systems of harm. We need to be able to have the funds to protect our human family and each other and our earth to the best of our ability. Because the fucking truth is we got like crazy billionaires, 10 of them or so running the world. And they're not, you know, everybody talks about like, oh, when capitalism falls, you guys like, I'm sorry, but realistically, capitalism ain't going anywhere anytime soon. Yes. How do we work? And even if it did, money would still matter. Money is literally just how do we agree on the value

of something for exchanges and yeah money's being used in really corrupt ways but that's why more people with good spirits world-changing witches need money yeah yeah how how do we get here like this sounds like a really big and beautiful dream and I think when you have kind of reached a certain level of like quote-unquote success whatever that looks like for you whether it's kind of like a financial monetary measurement or something else maybe it gets to be a little bit easier because I think that gives that's empowering but when you're just starting out and everything feels scary and new how do you actually move in that direction because it constantly feels like you are

either breaking rules or you're like standing out and doing something differently so there's that like really real fear of like being kicked out of the tribe um or if I say the wrong thing then again gonna be kicked out of the tribe and that like again very real fear of rejection or being misunderstood or whatever it is so like what are the what are like the really little things that people can be doing to move in that direction? Yeah. I think one of the most important things to the point that you're sharing about is around the fear of being kicked out is to have what I call a coven of celebration, solidarity, and support, specifically, not just like your besties, your besties are great, but to specifically curate a small group of people who you see sharing a similar vision and ambition.

So for instance, like if you're getting started with your business or whatever, and you want to be talking about things that the people around you aren't talking about. You've got to get into community with people who are also doing the brave thing you're doing. Yeah. I'm so glad that you answered it this way. And this now seems super obvious because you talk about this all the time. But I just want to emphasize the importance of this, but also the discomfort that this could bring a lot of folks who are really stuck in that like hyper independent I need to do it myself in order to be worthy of success because I think a lot of people are holding on to that story I know I've had moments of that where like

I'm not worthy of receiving support I'm not worthy of having this. I'm not worthy of having this community. I have to do it myself or else I cheated almost. Right. And so I would say that that is like a developmental trauma. The deepest core trauma that I think a lot of people have is that little young, young, young one trauma of, you know, having the need for support that didn't get met in an attuned way. And that can not be because you had like, quote, unquote, neglectful or horrible parents or something. It could even just be because the fucking systems of capitalism took your parents away from you.

I love that you think that it doesn't have to be super big trauma that kind of gets you in that place. It can also just be the cultural normalization of, yeah. The cultural trauma of capitalism is so real and it's not just intellectual. It's something that we feel from the time we're born. I mean, for me and getting pregnant and having a baby, like in the US, like I'm a self-employed witch. Like my maternity leave is the money I've saved. That's it. We don't even have maternity leave paid for. So of course our babies won't feel like they were fully attuned to and responded to. So from the time

that they're babies or the time that you're pregnant, our little ones are feeling the stress of, I got to go out there. I got to go out there. I can't, you know, or of the parents who can't fully show up and just tend to the little ones. So all of this to say, we develop hyper self-sufficiency. This is the first archetype of Rebloom. If you're listening, go read Rachel's book, Rebloom, because she goes deeper into all of this. Yeah. Into seven archetypes for post-traumatic growth. So the first archetype is your youngest self. It's your soul seed. And it's the little one who needs, who needs, who needs, who needs, and who can cry for her needs, their needs, his needs, and then who gets responded to.

But from a trauma level, you need something, you cry for it, or you realize I'm not even in an environment where I can cry for it. So I'm not going to cry for it. I'm just going to take care of my needs on my own. And we learn this at such a young age. And then that's celebrated and reinforced through our culture. So we learn to be hyper self-sufficient. But the truth is, if you have something divergent that you want to pursue, which could even literally just be, and it's not even just, but it could literally be, I want to start a business

and make six figures working online. For some people, that is so different than anyone that they know that all of the fears of not belonging to who you come from are going to come up. So you need to be in community. You need to be in coven because without that, you will self-sabotage. It's inevitable because the need for belonging is often stronger physiologically, neurobiologically than the need for self-expression gets suppressed and we betray ourselves in pursuit of a sense of belonging. And that sense of belonging can end up being just this perceived sense of safety and not actually this true sense of belonging. Because if you are having to change the way you are to belong, then that's not true belonging. Yeah. And even the piece around having boundaries or letting people down or not always overgiving and overdoing. Well, if you've always had that identity in your relational fields and you shift, like

people are gonna be like, who the hell are you now? Yeah. And so again, that's why it's so important to then have a group of people that you trust who you can go to and be like, guys, I'm practicing my boundaries and I'm ruffling some edges, some feathers. And those people be like, I'm with you. Yeah. Great job.

Keep going. This is going to work out. Right? So that's one thing is like, you need a coven. You need a coven. And I write about that. We can link to it in the show notes on like how to form your own coven. I just want to also like emphasize the importance of that, not just in business, but motherhood too. Right? I think we all know we need a village but it's not just about like that physical support and like hands helping mom and baby we also need that like emotional spiritual psychological support of like I see you doing something different and I know that's hard like I'm just thinking from my own experience I ended up having a home birth as a first-time mom which felt completely nuts like I ended up not telling

people because I didn't want to be talked out of it so looking back I kind of had to form my own coven with a select group of people that I knew would cheer me on and not project their fears onto me and then once I had my baby we ended up co-sleeping bed sharing still do to this day I'm still breastfeeding I'm starting to feel like that crazy lady that's breastfeeding a toddler and like thinking about homeschooling and so I'm doing all these counter-cultural things and again just recognizing that like good job I'm giving myself a pat on the back because I have been very intentional about who I share my values and my dreams and my just the goals and aspirations I have in my own motherhood journey. Because if I didn't, I would feel too crazy and I wouldn't be able to keep moving forward. It would feel too scary.

I would be self-doubting myself along the way. Right. And, yeah yeah same thing in business like again for my own story I um I was a former nurse so I did the crazy thing and left my super stable and secure nursing job to go do something that offers basically zero security and stability unless I create it for myself and a lot of people would be like that's crazy like why would you do that especially with a newborn and like you just moved houses and you have a higher mortgage blah blah blah blah the list goes on it doesn't make sense it's basically delusional um but again had to surround myself with people that could back me up and cheer me on and like hold that vision with me yes yes that is exactly it and I think the other half of that not just having

people to hold the vision with you but also the boundaries of like protecting that vision from people that you know aren't holding it so not like sharing it with the world coming back to like my experience planning for a home birth I was very intentional about not sharing that with everyone because I knew that would kind of suck me out of my zone and on that like building momentum ascent that we were talking about like I needed to protect my energy and back to a garden analogy like when you just plant a seed you need to like protect that because it's fragile and vulnerable that we were talking about, like I needed to protect my energy. And back to a garden analogy, like when you just plant a seed, you need to like protect that because it's fragile and vulnerable and you don't just let anyone come near it. So. Yeah. And this is the second ritual that we do in business witchery. It's all about creating clarity on the coven that you specifically need

and creating a boundary shield. Who can come in and who has to stay out or what energies are welcome in and what energies are not. And the thing is, to go back to your original question, if you're just starting out, really, I think there's two things. The first one is getting super fucking clear on what you stand for that you want to be in service to in the world. And in your examples here, right? It's like you're talking about what you stand for in motherhood and in terms of your relationship to your body and sovereignty and everything else. In your business, what is it that you stood for, right? And so the first thing is to understand what is the part of your soul's expression of your truth of the wisdom that wants to live through your body and your soul that is maybe somewhat censored. Yeah.

Or just that's really strong and wants to come out but doesn't feel quite ready I like what you said earlier about how a lot of people's answers to that thing it might feel impossible so we almost cock block ourselves into even moving forward to that dream so you need to add on the like I forget what you said unless like it's impossible unless and then possible unless yeah or I know a question that you ask us quite frequently in our council calls is like what would be the right sized what is it the right size miracle in this moment and so allowing yourself to answer that and identify it and then the next step would actually be voicing it and like asking for it making it happen yeah yeah and I know that's often where I get stuck is it's one thing to identify the need

but it's a whole other thing to actually like voice it and again I think that stems back to like the worthiness piece of of being able to receive and that's definitely shown up very loud in my motherhood journey which has been a beautiful invitation to work on and expand so that I'm also carrying that forward in my business and that's where there's the beautiful like parallels all the time beautiful anything else coming up for you from any of this? I feel like we've gone in some beautiful tangents and I love it. I just think that, you know, if you have the seed of a dream for a more beautiful world in, you know, buried inside of you, it's because there is a part of your soul that came here to root that dream, to gestate and germinate and bloom that dream. And I know we're working

against so like we're swimming upstream in so many ways but we also have such a phenomenal opportunity to connect with other people who are truly seeding and sowing new ways of doing things new ways of working new ways of contributing new ways of earning money new ways of living your soul calling and I just really want to encourage you that the call in your soul is needed. And it's not easy in my experience, like the journey. I'm 15 years in or so to like self employment and like this mystical business witchery path and I'm doing really well, right? It has relative ease at this point and stability, but it is a major soul initiation to walk your own path specifically around starting a business. It's a major, major, major soul initiation

and you need a coven and you need guides and you're worth it. Amen. One direction we didn't go into, and I would love to quickly go in this tangent, is where like, saviorship kind of comes into all of this. Because I think for a lot of people, I know I'm speaking about myself. Like I said, I came from a nursing background, which obviously like is about helping people. And then I stepped into birth work as a childbirth educator and doula and again seeing that industry and the the saviorship role that people end up in and how that also takes you into this direction of self-betrayal. And I'm trying to figure out what the question is I have from this,

but maybe there's not a specific question. Maybe it's just how to, like, identify it and what to do, how to pivot when you realize that your energy is going in that direction because I think it's really common for like high achieving people pleaser good girls whatever label you want to snack on like it ends up being again a nervous system survival response where um we're just trying to like maintain that reputation and please people and not rock the boat. And with that comes overgiving and yeah, trying to like protect others from something that either we've experienced in the past or something that we don't want them to experience, like in the example of

the birth, the birth space, trying to, trying to save people from birth trauma. Right, right. Yeah. I think in terms of saviorship and martyrdom, the important question to ask yourself is, am I serving in a way that extracts from me or am I serving in a way that regenerates me? And there is a question around, am I seeing the people I'm serving as victims that need to be saved? Or am I seeing the people I'm serving as people with agency and choice that would love support. Or, you know, if you are, let's just say, in a really dramatic situation like a war zone or whatever where people are literally victims,

okay, am I seeing these humans as people with dignity who deserve better than I want to offer it? Or am I seeing them as victims who need to be saved? Right. Charity. What I'm saying is like not stripping away the sovereign, why can't I say that word? Sovereignty.

Sovereignty. There we go. Not stripping away the sovereignty that they, that each person has and like the autonomy of decision-making. And. Well, it's not exactly that because there are situations where people's sovereignty and freedom and decision making are being jeopardized i mean think about like abortion bans i mean that's that's real but it's it's about it's about if you are sir like if you are serving from a self-extractive way to maintain the role

of hero in your own ego, or are you serving in a way that regenerates you, that is good for the other, and that sees you as in relationship with whoever you're serving versus as like the savior hero above. Because the thing is, once you get into that, you know, the triangle of drama where there's a victim and a savior and a perpetrator, the second that you are no longer the savior, the victim sees you as the perpetrator. So it dehumanizes you to be in the role of savior, to be in the role of the one who can always do it all, the one who can always hold it all. It's a dehumanizing role to play because the second you stop doing it, people get mad at you. So you have to stop and say, listen, I'm not your savior. I'm not the one. I can't hold it all.

I'm a superhuman, but I'm not a superhuman, right? I'm an epic human, but I'm not superhuman. I'm still just human. And this is how I want to serve you in a way that it regenerates me. And that puts you in relationship versus in the position of commodification. Yeah. I love the relationship aspect because I think that automatically something I talk a lot about is like connection over performance and so I think when we can prioritize and continue to nurture that connection that that keeps us down on like the human level and helps us to not um I don't know it's almost like subconsciously hierarchies get formed and then people get put on pedestals. I think like that happens a lot in the business space of like coach

and client, right, or doula and pregnant person. What am I trying to say here? I was going to say that this also gets really, really blurry in motherhood because we're all kind of subconsciously striving for this title of good mom. Right. And this title of good mom we know is kind of impossible. And it's also really subjective. And there's just a lot of nuance around it.

But then what ends up happening is we try to maintain that reputation and that ends up being driven by our ego um yeah yeah so I love that you brought that in there that was a perfect answer thank you yeah loved that I'm trying to think I don't think I have any other like questions or directions that I was hoping we would go this was a really robust conversation and I'm grateful for your wisdom and your insight and your energy. Yeah. It was really fun to jam with you, Nicole. Maybe just to close out, other than business witchery, what else do you have in the works right now? And where can people find you? Yeah, totally. You can go to rebloomtogether.com to find me and all of my business witchery offerings are there as well as old Rebloom offerings that are really valuable. And the book Business Witchery will be out in October, but I am opening a business witchery CEO coven for the second half of 2024. And that is going to be six months of ritual,

somatic coaching counsel from me in the group space, as well as coven, coven hood, covenship with other world changing witches. And the focus is all about resources. It's all about money, baby. So if you're like, wait wait i've been resonating with this chick and actually this is a the time uh in my career and in my life where i'm really wanting to um serve and receive an overflow in a way that is genuinely regenerative for me and really in service to the vision of a more beautiful world i would love to get to know you. You can explore. So that'll be up at my site at rebloomtogether.com slash CEO Coven. And then there's also like a free ritual you can do

if you just want to like taste some of the magic. Yeah, highly recommend. Cackle, right? Yeah, cackle. And that's like literally connecting with your genius witch. It's so fun. It's 30 minutes and it's just a delightful experience. If you want a 30 minute boost to remember what the fuck you're here for.

Yes, yes, yes, yes. One thing I want to say about your work, Rachel, and the stuff that I've experienced with you so far, and one of my favorite things about it is it's not just like a one and done everything you teach everything you give is something that we can keep using and like reusing for different seasons of life to continue to pull out and uncensor ourselves at a deeper level like it's it's yeah I don't even know if that made sense but like even cackle your free your free 30 minute offering, like that's something that you could literally do like once a month to like kind of reset and reignite and reconnect with yourself. And then obviously like the seven rituals in business witchery, something that I plan

to do on like probably like a semi-regular basis. And I think that's part of why you've created that offering to be something that we can continue to be a part of in future cohorts, because you know that that depth building is there. I love that. I love it so much. Yes, every season is a new expression.

And so you got to renew your devotion to listening. Yeah, and I actually think that's a beautiful kind of closeout because it circles back to the beginning of the conversation when I had asked you about that like soul fulfillment and how I think for a lot of us, we think it's like this final destination and it's something that we need to like arrive to and then we're done. And the truth is, no, it's something that's going to continually evolve and pivot and change. And just this beautiful reminder that growth isn't linear. Growth is cyclical.

And there's just always going to be that movement and that fluidity. So thank you for all the work you do in the world. Thank you. This was so lovely. Oh my gosh, wasn't that such a good conversation? I get so much from it each time I listen back and I just wanted to hop back on because some of the offerings that Rachel mentioned at the end of the episode are no longer available or more accurately I should say she's already in progress

with them so her CEO uh Coven I don't think um is available to join anymore, and I'm not sure if she's running it again. But she is starting a new cohort of business witchery beginning on Halloween. And like I mentioned, I am a proud affiliate. I am also taking part in this cohort for the second time. And I would love to have you join me if you are craving Coven and community and adding more ritual to your business and really like uncensoring your wildest self I invite you to check out the links and I invite you to join us and for those of you that do end up joining with my affiliate link I'm really excited to create a special bonus mastermind for lack of a better word for us I'm this this offering this bonus offering is

evolving as we speak but my intention is to create space to virtually gather and really sit with and embody and integrate the work that is pulled through with the rituals that that Rachel brings us in business with tree I remember when I went through the first cohort back in the spring there were a lot of things that came up for me that my my wildest inner genius was trying to shine light on and honestly I didn't feel resourced enough and I didn't have enough courage to necessarily act on them and I can see so clearly how being in a smaller group in a coven would have really changed that trajectory for me and it's funny because it's one of the things that Rachel talks about very loudly and with a lot of conviction in all of the spaces she runs and I didn't really listen I didn't really find myself

a coven so I'm doing it differently this time I'm bringing more intention she runs and I didn't really listen I didn't really find myself a coven so I'm doing it differently this time I'm bringing more intention this time and I'm also wanting to set you up for success and invite you into a coven with me I will also just say that if you're thinking like what the heck is this ritual shit what are you talking about is this witchery what does this look like um I definitely recommend that you check out Rachel's free offering called cackle all of these links are found in the show notes but um I think it's like a 30 minute video it is absolutely incredible and it gives you a taste of what business witchery looks like so it's like cackle but then on steroids and so much deeper so much more potent

um this really is the type of work that can be life-changing if you're willing to go there okay before you go I just wanted to say thank you for taking the time to listen to this episode if you were thinking of anyone while listening please send it their way and if anything resonated with you or you love these conversations, please subscribe and leave a review. This really helps the podcast algorithms put my show in front of more people just like you. And the last thing, I would love nothing more than hearing from you.

So say hi, DM me on Instagram and give me a follow at Nicole Pasvir. Until next time.