REWILD + FREE - Cycles, Sensitivity and the Significance of Labels with Holistic Menstrual Health Educator, Heather Litster (79)

Episode Date: April 23, 2025

Watch on Youtube HEREWelcome Heather, a holistic menstrual health educator, to this episode of Rewild + Free where we discuss the significance of cycles, sensitivities, body literacy, and wide spectrum of neurodivergence. Heather shares her journey from being formally diagnosed with bipolar disorder to exploring premenstrual dysphoric disorder (PMDD) and the broader implications of labels in understanding our bodies. We delve into the sensory experiences unique to different phases of the menstrual cycle, the impact of societal expectations, and the importance of community support. This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in holistic health, empowerment through self-awareness, and breaking free from societal norms.About Heather: Heather Litster is an Award Winning Holistic Health Practitioner & Intersectional Menstrual Educator based out of Ontario who supports busy folks to take control of their health from the ground up.Heather helps bridge gaps in current health care systems by empowering individuals & community leaders with knowledge & tools for body literacy. She is the Founder of both Moon & Bloom and the Cycles of Change Project - a photo project that aims to reduce stigmas around menstruality through photographs of normal period situations.Connect with Heather on IG @heatherlitster__ or @moon.and.bloomClick here to view Heather's current services Connect with Nicole on IG @nicolepasveer Learn more about Unruly! Nicole's upcoming Round Table + Biz Lab for Neurodivergent Coaches, Doulas, and Healers - Starting May 1 https://offers.nicolepasveer.com/unruly/All of Nicole's current offerings can be found HERE Let's be Pen Pals! Join Nicole's email list by clicking HERE

your app can't tell you when you're ovulating, like you can't know what each cycle is going to be like until you're in it, right? You can have some patterns and recognize where things might be going. However, just like you can't predict ovulation, you can chart your biomarkers and say, okay, I have confirmed ovulation, I suspect it's coming. But until it actually happens, you can't know. And that, I would say, is very similar to our life. Yeah. You're listening to Rewild and Free. This is the go-to podcast for conscious and holistic entrepreneurs who are ditching society's to-do list for intentional living, freedom,

and abundance. If we haven't met yet, I'm Nicole Pazvir. I'm an ex-nurse turned matrescence guide and business coach, leading women just like you into the new paradigm. Keep listening if you're ready to unsubscribe from patriarchal motherhood, bro marketing, and boss babe culture. Because in this space, we use nature as our framework as we move towards feminine embodied business development, cyclical orientation, and slow living. Together, let's rewild and remember as we break free from survival and reconnect to what truly matters. Okay friend, steep your T and take the most loving breath you've given to yourself today and let's go.

Welcome Heather to the Rewild and Free podcast. We were just saying before I hit record that we're both a little bit like nervous and excited because we don't know each other. I very awkwardly followed you and then sent you a DM with my voice all in the same day and I'm like, hi, you don't know me and I don't usually do this before. I haven't followed people for long but do you want to come on my podcast? And thankfully you're like, yeah, hell yeah. So here we are. We're literally like meeting for the first time and so I'm really genuinely excited just to hear more

about you and connect with you. So welcome. Amazing. Well thank you so much for having me. I'm all through excited. I think like it takes a lot of, from my own experience, it takes a lot of bravery to send a voice note in general. Let alone- I was like, oh my god, is she gonna think this creepy? Is she even gonna open this or is she just gonna automatically think I'm like, Stammy? Yeah, I was so kind. I could hear it in your voice for sure. I would love maybe just, let's start with a quick introduction, whatever you feel called

to share just in the context of this conversation. Who are you and who do you serve and what do you do in the world? Okay, cool. So yeah, my name is Heather. I am currently based out of Pueblo, Ontario. I serve people online, but also in person. So I'm a holistic menstrual health educator and like coach or guide. Name is in progress. Yeah, but so I do a lot of like reflexology and reiki, so one-on-one with people. And then I also will work with clients like through workshops and

educational seminars. I am somebody who throughout my life, I've had a lot of different labels. I've had a lot of experiences and a lot of labels and a lot of things kind of come up. So where I'm at today, I guess, I would say is the labels I choose to wear today are, you know, I'm a woman, like a cis woman, bisexual. And then although that I have self-diagnosed myself with PMDD, I was once formally diagnosed with bipolar disorder, which interestingly enough, my psychotherapist at the time was like, this doesn't really seem right, but what do you think?

And I was like, I mean, I guess, yeah. I thought that was kind of fun. But yeah, so PMDD and bipolar disorder, we had learned, are very commonly misdiagnosed or mixed diagnosed. So that I identify as a highly sensitive person and yeah like an empath, someone who just loves to teach and educate. So that's a lot of the work I'm doing now. I just kind of try to bridge the gaps that are in our systems and try to like, you know, a lot of the education stuff we didn't learn in school or the stuff we did learn in school, but it was like one lesson and we're 13 and nobody remembers anything about being 13 besides Banana Condom because it's funny.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We love that. Yeah. What got you into menstrual cycle work then? Was it truly just, oh my God, like we never learned this in school. This is such a big gap. This is where my passion is. Or was there a big like catalyst moment for you? So this is kind of a funny story, like long, there's a little bit of a story to it, I'll try to keep it brief, but so basically I, after I finished high school, I was like, I don't know what I want to do with my life, so I worked a bunch of jobs, I was like, I

worked a bunch of jobs and figured out what I didn't want to do. Then I realized, okay, I love helping people, I want to work of jobs and figured out what I didn't want to do. And then I realized, okay, I love helping people. I want to work in healthcare, but I don't want to be a doctor. That's too gross. And so many people, well, I don't want to deal with that. And then I was like, okay. So I then learned about optometry and I was like, oh, I could be an eye doctor. And before that I was like, I want to be a teacher.

I love teaching, I love educating, I love kids. But a few cut like family members in the field were like, you don't make money doing this and it's very overwhelming. So I wouldn't recommend it. So that sort of pivoted me away from that. And then I worked, I went to school. I went to Trent University for anthropology and biology. So I did a degree in science, focusing on health sciences, trying to get

into an optometry program after. Throughout university, I just, I don't know if it was FOMO or I just wanted to get the most out of it or if I was running from something or my brain just was in 75,000 different directions. Or the above. Yeah, exactly. So I was like a president of a couple different clubs. I worked at two or three different organizations and jobs in and out of the school at any given time. I had a full-time course load. I was trying to finish my four-year degree in three years.

And all of this eventually led to burnout and me realizing that I didn't actually want to spend another four years in school. And I was like, no, I can't do this. So I took the time off. I worked in the field of optometry still, just not as an optometric doctor. I was an assistant. I managed your practice for a while. And while I was doing that, one day, when Facebook ads were new, like 2019, would he actually trusted them and would follow the rabbit hole that it took you on? Yeah.

Yes. I found one for this program that was titled Holistic Reproductive Practitioner. And I was like, I don't know what that is. And then I looked at it and it's like Reiki, reflexology, doula work. And I was like, don't know what any of those things are, but that sounds cool and I want to be cool. I literally signed up for this program, not having any idea what anything was. And I like, then I took it and it changed my life.

And even even even further, like my the practitioner Michelle Stroud, or the teacher who hosts this program, she she's absolutely incredible. And we were learning during the midst of the beginning of the pandemic. And that was big, right? That was just a time where nobody knew what to do. We were all overwhelmed. And she was, like, the most reframed by idea of how education needed to be. And it was like, it doesn't need to be structured

and systematic. It can be compassionate and caring. And it can meet people where they're at. And she's, this is a traumatic time. Do what you can, and we'll get where we can when we can. I love it. It's all good. And that gentleness, like, changed my life, but also the education did. do what you can and we'll get where we can when we can. I love it. It's all good.

And that gentleness changed my life, but also the education did. And at that time, I was sharing a few things on Instagram. I was like, oh, did you know this is what a period is? I was such basic stuff that I didn't really know, even though I had a degree in health science. I was specializing in biology on health sciences. So I was like, how do I not know this? And yeah, so from there, like I

sharing about it, and now my friends are messaging me, they're like, I didn't know that. Yeah. And then people start messaging me about other things. They're like, I have this itch, and I don't know what it is. What do I do? Where we go? My period is like this. And I was like, oh, there is a lot of stuff that people don't know. So I just kind of got more and more into it. And as time went on, I realized that there is,

there is a big population of people, like most of us, honestly, even me, I was still learning things. And I think I know a lot that just don't have this like basic body literacy. And so that's, that's what like keeps me moving and got me started with like super random thing, like impulsive decisions in my like not so great So that's what keeps me moving and got me started was like super random thing, like impulsive decisions in my not so great mental health days were like my number one favorite

thing. So I was like, this might find up for another random thing. Like, my role was like zero. Karly Is it impulse or is it intuition though? We'll never know. Karly Well, we'll play both. Yeah. Yeah.

There's some common threads in that to my own story. I am a former nurse, so I also went through university and wanted to be in healthcare, but it's funny, I thought I wanted to be a doctor and then I realized, oh, fuck no. I actually eventually want to be a mom, I want to have some type of work-life balance. I'm never going to get that as a doctor. So nursing for me was the compromise, but I didn't want to be, I didn't like the grossness of health care. So I went into mental health nursing. In all that though, like I spent all of my early adult life and late teenage life literally having no relationship with my menstrual cycle. It was something that I would dread. It was something that that I wanted to get rid of. I remember I was on systemic

birth control since I was, oh my god, probably 14. And then in adulthood, I had an IUD and I had the kind of IUD that basically made me not have a period. And I remember thinking, oh my god, I have one. This is what every woman wants. This is something I'm so proud of and I would brag about with my friends. And then I became a mom and just that entire journey for me with the catalyst to reconnecting with my body, and I love the language of body literacy that you used because even me, who is a former nurse who went through an entire university degree where I should have learnt this stuff, I didn't.

And it wasn't until I began reconnecting with my body that I consciously chose, wait a minute, I also want to have a relationship with my menstrual cycle. And that was the first time that like, I started learning all of those things. And it's, yeah, once you start learning, I just want more, I just want more, because it really is empowering and liberating

and just helps you feel more connected to yourself, I'd say. Yeah, and it sounds, I mean,'re parallel, like you're an educator too. Right? Like that's, and in my heart, like, I mean, I was coaching kids' soccer. I was babysitting, like I was always teaching people and it's just like healthcare and education are two things I was wanted and I'm in that now. It's just different than I thought it would be.

Like the field didn't really exist when I was picking my job. Yeah. And if it did, it was not talked about because of all the taboo and stigma around menstruation. So yeah, it's really like, it just showed up differently. And then that education piece is the more I talk to people, the more I'm like, okay, this is fiery. Well, I think it's breaking a cycle of silence, right? It's something that we're all experiencing, right? As women with uteruses, like we are all experiencing this thing that society has kind of taught us to be hush-hush about and make taboo, that as people like us start talking about it, it's breaking that cycle of, oh wow, like I don't have to pretend I'm the only one experiencing this. Yeah, yeah, it's so true. And it's, I mean, this sort of, oh wow, I don't have to pretend I'm the only one experiencing this. Yeah. Yeah, it's so true. And I mean, this sort of, you mentioned society sort of imposing these belief systems on us, right? And it is a systemic thing, but I don't think that

necessarily it's one person or one thing. I recently was listening to a podcast and it's like, sometimes I'm reading a podcast and it's like, sometimes we're reading a book and sometimes we perpetuate these systems ourselves. Yeah, we didn't really do the choke cord on ourselves. Yeah, and I think what it was is I saw a reel or something and it was basically talking about adolescence, which is on Netflix right now. If you haven't seen it, it's really good actually. With a movie or a documentary?

It's a series, it's a love-h of series. So I think there's eight episodes. And yeah, so it's adolescence and essentially it's about like misogyny and internalized misogyny and how that frames how people view each other. And someone was sort of referencing this show and saying, you know, if my, you know, male presenting or my male child wants to wear makeup, I'm not going to say no. Because if I say no, like they're five years old, they might not want to wear makeup again when they're 25. If they do, who cares? But also when they're 25, if they tried makeup at five, they're not gonna think it's a bad thing only for a certain audience. So and I think that you know we don't realize those things,

right? Those are such core and deep beliefs and and you know in if we're talking in the context of Maradot Day, Virgins, it's like a lot of these sort of beliefs we have about how we should present ourselves in the world are not, they're not, like, it's not like they all the time are intentionally imposed upon us, right? It's not like I'm like, I don't like myself, I'm going to make myself feel like I should be someone different when I go out. No, I actually just don't know how to be like this. But then in that sort of realm of education, the more we learn about those things, like our cyclical being in terms of like menstrual cycles, but also in terms of like our neurodivergent cycles, our seasonal cycles, like all these internal and external ways.

Yeah. You know, if some, you know, we had a car accident or something, so 10 years later, we might feel weird around that day that we had the accident. Yeah. It's like, there's all these different types of cycles. And the more we can be aware of them, the more we have this opportunity to be like, oh okay, I'm going to maybe offer a bit of compassion to this or be like, it doesn't have to be this way. But it's undoing that stuff within our side ourselves too that's not easy to do. Yeah, well it's the water we swim in and then bringing a layer of consciousness to how we've internalized some of those

constructs and ideologies. Yeah, it is really interesting. I'd love to hone in on the neurodivergent side of things. And circling back to you had shared that you got a formal diagnosis of being bipolar. And I want to zoom in on that first. Tell me more about that and then tell me about the moment that you had the therapist that was like, do you actually resonate with this? Kat Kerlin Yeah. So that was a really interesting time

in my life. Without going into a lot of detail, I was super impulsive, reckless, promiscuous, spending frivolously without thinking about the consequences. I'd make a lot of decisions without really thinking them through. So the label of manic was probably put on you? The label of manic. Yeah. Or like hypomanic and depressive. Because then I had that opposite where I'd have the high and the low. I'd have the super big gloves where I'd be in the hospital or I'd be taking different medications. They were like, depression doesn't seem to fit, but we thought you had that for a really long time. And previously in my life, before university, so university is when I was given

that label of bipolar, bipolar II. And then previously, years before, I was also given labels of addiction and anxiety and depression and that type of diagnosis. Then that shifted to this, okay, maybe it's bipolar disorder because you seem to be having these big sort of shifts. And then when I reflect on my life now, I'm like, okay, well, I was trying to do and be everyone and everything and everything. My body was incredibly stressed. I was not seating it adequately.

I was not resting it adequately. My cellular makeup was super messed up. Like it was having, not even messed up, it was just like really struggling to exist in the world I was in. So everything like exhausted and thinking of the HPA axis dysfunction, like your hypothalamus, the pituitary and the adrenal glands, like I definitely was experiencing that if I think back to it, right? Like my body was just burnt out at all ends.

But the doctors were like, we think that maybe this $300 a month antipsychotic will help you. And I was like, sounds great. I'm desperate. Please save me from myself right now. I would say it did make a bit of a difference. And I'm really, really grateful. One of my best friends at the time was really down to...well, she's not my best friend, but...really down to listen to my body. I

was like, I need your help. I don't know what to do. I love you and I need you. You're here with me all the time. Let's figure it out. And she would point out to me, she'd be like, oh, this seems to be your more manic phase and this seems to be your more depressive phase. I've been watching you and you've been having these behaviors which tend to lead to this. So she helped me really be aware of that cycle. And see the pattern to it. See the pattern to it. And I would say that the bipolar diagnosis really helped me understand cycles before I knew about menstrual cycles. I was like, okay, now I have an understanding of what the cyclical nature of my body is, right? And I started sort of tuning into that and I'd be like, okay, when this happens, this is what this happens. This is how I need to respond.

And that made a big difference for me. And yeah, and that's when the doctor was like, does this fit? And I was like, I guess. Flash forward, I don't know, a couple of years later too, like I was in a hospital again, like begging for help. I'm like, my life is not going to continue this way. I truly did not anticipate to hit 30, you know? Like I didn't think I'd get to 25. So like life had just been keep going and I was just at my wit's end.

And I was like, please help me. And then this doctor was like, I think you might have borderline personality disorder. And I was like, okay, so which one is it? Yeah. And that's where like I started digging more and more and being like, okay, those two things are commonly misdiagnosed. And then similar around that time is when I'd taken the course.

So I was like, okay, now I'm learning about menstrual cycles too. And then I learned about PMDD and I'm like, ah. And then I started cycle thinking and just in my own way. So I like cycle thinking, a lot of people like have this like idea of how it is and like this 28 day cycle, it's like perfect behaviors in each phase and I just really don't believe in subscribe to that because not everyone has that experience, especially as someone who has chemical imbalance in their brain and they were like metabolizes hormones and chemicals in my body differently that I can't subscribe to that. So I'm like, okay, I'm practicing my body differently. Yeah, I can't subscribe to that.

So I'm like, okay, I'm practicing my form of cyclical mindfulness. Yeah, well, I like that language. Yeah, because that's what it is, right? It's a cyclical mindfulness. And I often speak about how we are so quick to intellectualize our menstrual cycle. And I think we have to to start, right? We have to learn the vocabulary and the language of it. But there comes to a point where if you just continue to intellectualize it, you're kind of stuck in these like shoulds and

expectations of, okay, well, my app says that I'm menstruating, so I should feel this and I should do this. Or my app says that I'm ovulating, so I should feel this and I should do this. And that's not it. That's not actually being in relationship with your menstrual cycle. So yeah, I just love the language of the mindfulness around it. Yeah, if anything, I would argue like when we're trying to fit our body into that typecast, it's like perpetuating those systems again, right? Yeah, yeah. Say that again.

Yeah, so for the people in the back, that's it. That's exactly it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So when we're participating in this typecast of this is what you look like in this phase of your cycle, we really are perpetuating that system where it's like selling it to us where it's okay in this phase you have to be like this and you have to eat this and it's like the truth is about about menstrual cycles that we're learning is everyone is different in every

menstrual cycle and similar to how your app can't tell you when you're ovulating, like you can't know what each cycle is going to be like until you're in it, right? You can have some patterns and recognize where things might be going. However, just like you can't predict ovulation, you can chart your biomarkers and say, OK, I have confirmed ovulation.

I suspect it's coming. But until it actually happens, you can't know. And that, I would say, is very similar to our life. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, let's zoom in even further. So now, talking about the menstrual cycle, talking about you, you are self-identifying with PMDD.

Walk me through that process for you of realizing, oh shit, this is related to my cycles, and you're now seeing these patterns in yourself. What were some of those patterns that you were seeing? Yeah, so I would say like zooming in slash out at the same time. Yeah, yeah. Really fortunate, like I guess like blessing of a background in the facts that I had had such struggles, right? So I have all this background of therapy on me. I had this ability to have perspective and I have this friend who's willing to look with me. Yeah. So you have the self-awareness, like the tools of self-awareness already and you

also have the witnessing of, yeah, this... Of community. It's community, right? Like I have community who's not making me feel bad for how it is. I have community who's witnessing me for where I am. And I found that that was really, really powerful. So that helped me think, okay, I don't want to pay $300 a month for medication. Like it's expensive. It's, I don't know. At the time I was like, I don't know if I want to have children, but this medication is new. It's not necessarily tested on pregnancy.

So I'd have to get off if I chose to have a child. For me, like my comfort zone, of course everyone's different. So I'm like, I don't think I want to take it. But also, would I be okay if I didn't take it? Would I have severe postpartum depression? Would I have depression in pregnancy or trying to conceive? What would happen? So I had like kind of all these fears around it. And yeah, it was sort of like practicing the cycle thinking, cyclical mindfulness, where I was like, OK, if I'm feeling a certain type way, I'm going to listen to my body.

What is it asking for? What kind of food is it asking for? I'm like, is it asking for more magnesium? Is it asking for more protein, more red meat? What is it asking for? More vegetables? And I just sort of like honor that, or like more rest. I was really, again, very fortunate and privileged at the time to have to work for a small business that

was like open to the idea of taking rest when you need it. Again, not everybody has that privilege. So there were like times where I was like, I can't work this week. And my boss was like, okay, do what you need. And I did, I honored that and I found that it made a big difference. So that's where I was like, okay, I wonder, is it premenstrual dysphoric disorder? And the more I looked at it, I was like, all these things match and it makes sense with my body and it does make sense with, you know, being a sensitivity to progesterone. Like my brain metabolizes it weird and it makes sense. It makes so much sense to me.

Like I get so, I have such big shifts. And then even, you know, the estrogen is like so intense for me that that's when I get manic. But then when I, when I was able to, so, so I noticed, yeah, around ovulation is when the quote unquote manic experience would happen, as many people would say that, that's when your peak energy is. That's when you should go for a run.

And at that time I was like, yeah, that's when I should go to the bar and have sex with everyone I meet. Sounds great. Which is like not conducive, you know? There was becoming a point where I was like, okay, now I have a serious partner that I don't want to do that to. I was like, hey, I got to figure it out. What am I going to do? And yeah, so that's like my, my ovulation, follicular phase time. That first half of my cycle was when I'd had that more impulsive, that more intense energy. And then the second half of my cycle is when it was super plummet. I have nothing left. I didn't want to see anyone talk to anyone.

Like my normal bubbly personality was gone, completely gone. And as I was practicing that mindfulness, I was honoring what my needs were. And then I realized things sort of plateaued a bit. And I was like, I was still taking the medication at the time. I was like, actually, don't even know if it's doing anything. So I'm non-compliant with medications. I forget them all the time. So I forget them. And there was like a period where I like forgot about five days and I was like, I might as

well just keep going, you know? I was like, here we are. And my partner, like, who'd been through the worst of my depression with me, was terrified. He's, oh my God, are you going to be okay? What's going to happen? He was so, so, so scared. And I was completely fine. And now it's been, oh my gosh, three years at least, maybe four, that I've been unmedicated

in that context. And I take some supplements here or there to support with nutrient deficiencies that I have a naturopathic doctor testing me for. And then if we even go back to this label thing, I'm like, do I need the label to tell me what I know is true in my body? Is it helpful for identifying what could be going on? Yes. But does it change anything? No, I love that you're naming that. And I also just want to reflect back that it sounds like what you're experiencing is quote unquote normal, right? Like that high during levulation and the low roll at different phases and your experience is just more intensified. And it's just so

interesting to witness how quick our medical system is to want to throw a label on it and then potentially throw medication as opposed to just looking at it from a more holistic and just wider perspective. What else is going on here? You've named, there's also the nutrient deficiencies and all the different things happening. You're burning yourself out in all the things you're doing and you're probably not sleeping the way you should, and exercise and sunlight, and all the other things that a human being needs, right? I just wanna name that.

And I think, yeah, maybe let's kind of keep moving forward with the neurodivergence piece. And so I know I asked you this question before we started recording. What is your relationship with neurodivergence? And we started talking about, well, what if it's not ADHD and not autism, then what are potentially the other like neuro types that aren't necessarily talked about? And so I'd love to kind of hear your

spiel on that. Because we studied that and then we put a pin on it. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, I would say like my personal relationship with neurodivergence, like in my own body and my own experiences, like I do feel that I'm a highly sensitive person or HSP, which someone who feels the things around them on an intense scale. So if someone walks into a room, I can feel that they're sad or happy. A lot of people will say that's intuition or a degree of psychic or whatever, but whatever you want to call it, I feel, myself feel more than my brain can logically process. I think as a fellow highly sensitive person, that is just so normal to me.

I feel like I'm going to look at you more strangely if you told me that you don't experience that because I can't even begin to understand what that would be like. And I think I would honestly say a lot of us have it, but thinking back to conditioning, right? A lot of us are taught at a young age not to listen to our intuition, right? So if a baby's at their chair, like their high chair, they're eating and the parent says you're not full even though you've said you're full, then the child keeps eating and now that's one time where they then learn not to listen to their intuition, they have not learned to listen to their body. So and that's like a no fault to anyone. It's something we don't realize. Yeah, like the parent

wants to make sure the child is fed, the child and nourished and everything, but the child was like, I'm dumb. Yeah. So, so, oh my gosh, where was I? So I'm a highly sensitive person, that's what I would say, and also PMDD, promotional dysphoric disorder. And those exist technically outside of the spectrum. Somebody asked me once recently, oh, you're neurotypical, right? Because I do have this ability to present that way, mostly because I would say my empathetic and patient personality, which I've curated from 15 years of therapy and self-actualization.

It's like socially accepted and praised. Yes, yes. And I mean, also self-actualization, where I'm like, I have this ability to look at myself from outside, right? And that's something that took a lot, a lot of practice. And it's something that a lot of us can do that, but I would say I'm also able to offer compassion. So I'm not afraid of it. I'm not afraid that it looks different than someone else's experience. I'm okay with it.

I'm okay with it. So yeah, so they're asking me, like, oh, do you're neurotypical, right? And I was like, well, I wouldn't say that. There's a lot of, I see the, you know, like I'm on the internet too and I see the videos, you know, people, Autism ADHD, and I was like, I get that. And they're like, or like the ones where you're like reacts to neurotypical and you're like, I'm like, what? Like people's brains work like that? Yeah. What? And, and, and like, I remember like being in university too and being like, I wish like there was someone I was friends with and all she wanted

in life was to get her degree, get a job, get married, have kids. So linear. So linear and like it was clear to her. She was like there was nothing that would get in the way of it and I was like I wish that my brain was just that like clear, you know? Yeah. Like I was like I want to be an astronaut still. I don't know, like I want to be an art teacher. And a princess and I want a pony and yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I've heard better write courses, but I'm definitely going to be a horse breeder. I don't know. So I'm like terrifying of them, honestly, so I would never do that. But yeah, so I'm like, I don't know, I wouldn't say I'm

very typical. And so I did a quick Google and I was like, you know, is PMDD a type of neurodivergence? And it was like, well, technically no, but it is like, it could be considered like it's on the cusp on the outside. And the same thing with the HSP, it's on the outside, it's on the cusp because it's like your brain doesn't technically follow the same direction that they would consider to be neurotypicals. Yeah. That's like a really good answer because it just opens a can of worms that I want to now talk about, right? And like that kind of worms

includes labels, right? And do we need them? Do they have meaning? Are they helpful? Are they harmful? And also just the mixedness of it all, right? As I'm listening to you speak, like I relate to a lot of that. And I wonder those of us that maybe are self-identifying with the box of autism or the box of ADHD, are we misinterpreting our own self-diagnosis and it's all these other things as well or vice versa, right? And then it really has you wondering, does it matter? And the answer is no. I think really it could just be two boxes, like neurotypical and non-neurotypical.

And then that box of not neurotypical gets to be ginormous and there's so much variance and like the spectrum is huge. And I know you even gave the language of these things don't fall on the spectrum. And that's interesting too, because what is this spectrum? Who created the spectrum and who defines it? And I think especially like knowing what I know about autism specifically in women, there just hasn't been any or enough research on what it looks like as a cyclical human being, right?

All of the research on all of these things is on males. So now when we start talking about the cyclical nature of menstruation and just like our hormonal needs and our physiology, it just, it becomes so much more complex and there's obviously not enough people having conversations like this. And here we are. Yeah. I would say almost that I do think like from my own experience in life, like I do think that labels are helpful. I think that as long as, you know, if I love a red shirt, that is great. But will I only wear that red shirt for my entire life? Not necessarily.

I might change body size, I might change style. So I think about that in the way that in the same way the brain has its chemistry or whatever, life experiences continually will impact how our brain functions. Yeah. Well, and actually, I love that you named that and I'm sorry for interrupting, but I'll lose my thought if I don't. Because I think when we think about the series of events that, let's say, the average woman experiences, right, you have adolescence and your period starts and that's this whole like shitstorm identity spiral and hormonal mashup. And then potentially becoming a mother, same thing, postpartum again, perimenopause, menopause, right?

There's all these like literal life events that shift the entire chemistry. And again, that's just not as talked about when we're talking about these other labels that have been predominantly researched on males. And then we haven't even talked about like nervous system stuff and trauma and all of the other things that are impacting all these things. But again, there's just not a lot of research on the woman's body on the menstruating human. Yeah, yeah, it's true. And like, I'm definitely not a neuroscience expert or anything like that, but I mean, the way that like everything in our entire life impacts how we respond to our external

and internal world is very real. And I think that a lot of us can understand this. So you know, how the biology of that happens and how it shifts and alters is really individualized. So there's not necessarily a one-size-fits-all solution for everyone. And I think so the label back to that offer this type of compassion to the structure and the processes that are happening in our own body. Where we can be like, okay, I recognize that. And like, we don't always have to change it. It doesn't have to be this like sort of strive to be neurotypical. Like it can just be like, okay, like I understand that

my brain does not think that way, which is okay, but I now know how to communicate it. It's thinking of when in school people are not taught the name for their vulva or their parents don't teach them, they call it a cookie or something different and how that leads to a whole clue of horrible things, right? Like if we can't name our body parts, how are we supposed to ask for help with them? Oh my god, I'm like this light bulb moment, right? Because coming back to the language of body literacy, that's literally putting labels on our body, having language for our body parts. And so why is there this potential shame or aversion to labeling our brain?

Anyways, that's tangent. But I get it. I'm in agreement with you. I do think labels are quite meaningful and I think having a label offers the language and it's almost this portal of exploration, right? I think the danger, and I'm putting air quotes around it because I mean, I think everything can be medicine and poison, right? It just depends the intention behind it and the dose, right?

But if we're talking about, yeah, labels as this tool of exploration, there is so much value in that versus using them as prescription. And I think that's where the poison and the danger comes, right? When we're attaching to them as a prescription and we already kind of touched on that, right? When we're intellectualizing our menstrual cycle and intellectualizing what each phase should mean for our body. Yeah, yeah. And if it's like, if you haven't, if our listeners, if you haven't read or watched these following

things, Dr. Grabaromati, he's amazing, first of all, but the body says no, really talks about this and how labels can be helpful but also harmful. And then also in his documentary, The Wisdom of Trauma, which is, I don't know, I forget how long, but it talks a lot about, you know, trauma in different types of trauma and how they impact our body and they might manifest know, trauma in different types of trauma and how they impact our body and they might manifest into illness and in different types of illness and really just sort of taking that sort of mind connection and the mind piece and the body piece and looking at them as a mind body. So looking at everything together I think is really important.

But yeah, so I do think when it comes to neurodivergence and menstrual cycles that label can be really helpful because yeah, for me being like, oh, okay, follicular phase and manic or like ovulation to manic makes sense. Be careful. Like this is how I respond to that. But yeah, the way you tend to yourself in that season would be completely different, right? And yeah, having the label helps you be able to identify and decide what tools and resources

you're going to identify and decide what tools and resources you're going to reach to. This is kind of a silly example, but like we label our outer seasons, right? Summer, winter, fall, whatever the fourth one is. And we know that like in summer, I'm probably going to need a bathing suit and like sunscreen versus in winter, I'm going to need a winter too, because we're in cannabis, you know what I'm talking about? And like a snow coat, right?

Like you lean on different resources and tools depending on the season you're in and we need those labels to identify with what we need as a resource. And then in the case of like neurodivergent and maybe the conversation around accommodations and what supports you may or may not need, again, the label helps not only access that, but be able to identify where the gap is and what the need is. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. That's like perfectly worded. You summed that up so beautifully. Because it's true, like how, again, giving language to what we need is really important.

And I think like a lot of times we're comparing, like, I mean, I compare my brain to a neurotypical brain and I'm like, okay, so this is what a neurotypical person needs to feel good in this moment so I should do that. And that doesn't always work for me. And also if someone has a similar diagnosis as me, they might not also have the same need. So being like, okay, this is what I need and to kind of flow with that. I also think this sort of cyclical mindfulness has been helpful for working through seasons of overwhelm. And you know, you're a mom so you would get it, but as an entrepreneur on my end and a partner and

whatever, there's so many different times where I think people can think, oh you're stressed, just stop everything. Well no, this season right now, I don't know, say the holidays, say a holiday, this season is stressful and it is heavy and it is a lot. And I have some support to help me get through it, but it will be a lot and that's okay. And my brain will not feel its best and that's okay. But I have a support plan for after and I have a support plan for during that feels achievable and attainable for myself. So I'm like, okay, my support plan during is, you know, every week or other week I have one appointment that

will help me or I like, I listen to five minute meditation, one time or whatever. And then my support plan after is be like, okay, I know this busy season will end approximately this time and I plan to have this much time to myself to recover. I will not make plans, I will not whatever. And I just offer that compassion to myself, again, knowing that seasons and cycles don't always look what they do for the neurotypical brain. And if I even think back to my diagnosis, my doctor might have asked about my menstrual cycle, but I'm someone who has a typical 28-day cycle. I get my cycle, you know, very regularly. So like, why would they investigate it? It's like, it's not a heavy bleed.

Yeah, we checked the box of normal. The box of normal. And it's like, yeah, there is, there is more to it, right? Yeah. Yeah. Where my mind is going, like, I love that you mentioned just entrepreneurship and overwhelm and how we can navigate seasons of overwhelm with our cycle and with just the, the identification of what tools and supports and resources I can use depending on where I'm at in my, in, in my cycle.

Because I, I speak about this often, cycles of creation and talking again, through the lens of an entrepreneur and you are creating offers, you're creating content, and I feel like it's so easy to be like, oh, this is like perfectionism creation and talking again through the lens of an entrepreneur and you are creating offers, you're creating content. And I feel like it's so easy to be like, oh, this is like perfectionism or procrastination coming up. And it's, is it though, or is it actually a very normal response to the season that you're currently in, right? To your inner season and cycle and like what your body is hormonally, biologically, physiologically

doing. Is it something that we need to keep pathologizing and deem as this is hormonally, biologically, physiologically doing. Is it something that we need to keep pathologizing and deem as this is wrong, this is bad, I need to fix it, I need to solve this, I need another training, or I need another coach because I just can't get over my perfectionism? Is it that or is it using the menstrual cycle as a tool for understanding and embodying your own cycles of creation? Yeah. Yeah, it's honestly, it's been life changing for me, right? Yeah, it's been so great. I can now, you know, run my own business, right? I have the knowledge to know that when I start to feel that burnout coming,

to be like, okay, it's coming, it's okay, but what do you need to avoid the big one? Can you just have a mini baby one that is just like normal, you know? Yeah. Lately. Yes. Yeah. I love that. Okay, let's switch gears a little bit. And I'm curious just to learn more about, I guess, like everything you know related to just kind of sensory needs in neurodivergent and not necessarily sensory needs in the menstrual cycle. So I don't even want to use neurodivergence

as like the umbrella here because obviously all humans have sensory needs, but I think those of us that are not neurotypical, the sensory needs are not typical to a neurotypical. So let's talk about it through that lens. Yeah, so I would say I find for me and my hormones being like really a big shift. One of the biggest things for me is like smell and taste. And touch. So those are my three big ones. So as I'm in my luteal phase, if my varner touches me, he told me I make this face, which is like a scrunched up disgusted face. And he actually told a friend of ours that's the face I make and he knows I'm luteal.

Because I'm just like, my skin is overwhelmed, it's crawling, I don't want to be touched. And then there's, for me, also smell and taste. So foods that might have tasted good a week or so ago don't taste as good. And smells as well, if he puts on a different type of cologne or whatever, or the same one, but I just suddenly, I can't be in the same room, I'm like, get away from me. So those are some big ones. And I just try to like, again, offer compassion to that to be like, okay, if you don't have to get mad at everyone around you for being this way, or you can communicate to them, be like, it's not about you being disgusting. It's just like, I'm more sensitive to this right now. And then yeah, like social things, a big thing for me as well.

So if we think about sort of masking and that luteal phase is, okay, can I pretend to be the same person I was a week ago or do I need to honor that I won't? And like, I've gotten to this place now where when I'm in a season of overwhelm, my mood, my PMD symptoms are more intense. So I feel a lot more. And I've gotten to a place where I can communicate that with the people in my space, right? People, whether I work in the same building as them or whether they're a friend or whatever and I can just say, my PMG is a lot worse right now. I'm in my luteal phase and I can't be nice to you.

I want to be nice to you and I want to respect you, but I just don't have it in me. And it's not to do with you. Like it actually is fully nothing to do with you. You could have said the exact same thing to me like a couple of months ago and I would have been okay with it, but today like I'm not able to tolerate anything extra. I'm just barely taking care of my own needs.

So again, just the labels and the understanding and the tracking and the charting helped me kind of know when that happens. And then the last one I will mention is like a lot of folks will experience like issues around blood and that can be like anytime, you know, obviously generally during menstrual time, but like thinking, you know, the body is like more reserved, right? That's that winter time. Do I want to try something new or do I want to do something kind of gross?

I want to comfort stuff, right? So just like being mindful of like different types of menstrual collection and what feels the best for you and not judging that, right? So if you're someone who's, I need to use a disposable like tampon and I can't afford the organic one, use what you can afford and think that's good for you. Don't let anyone shame you into being like, oh, like this menstrual disc is so much better for the environment and better for your body. It's cool. Oh, I love that you're naming that. Not my body.

My body has such different needs than your body. Well, I'm connecting it to the sensory needs, right? My sensory experience during that time is going to be different. And so I'm thinking about, I feel like the echo chamber of the internet that I have been in is all, let's rub our period blood on our face and use it in our plant water. And I'm like, cool, I love that you're doing that, but I am not. And being able to recognize that it's not because I'm like not spiritual enough or not like sovereign enough or whatever label you want to smack on it.

No, it's like my sensory experience. That's literally all it has to be. And can I honor that need for myself and not shame myself for not being good enough for whatever other camp I'm trying to fit into? Yeah. And I would also say again, like thinking of labeling and okay, in this moment, maybe this is where I'm at. And like, maybe I do think it's cool that people put period blood on their face, but I'm icked out by it. And maybe one day I'll be open to it. Again, that t-shirt example, right? You can like a red t-shirt and then not like it a month or a couple years later, right? Yeah, I mean, if we think back to a lot of us when we were kids or teens and someone

would be like, oh, do you want to, you know, kiss a boy or kiss a girl? Yeah, please. Yeah, you want to kiss someone and you're like, ew, whether it's, you know, boy, girl, whatever. Like, you're like, ooh, gross. And now you're like, then you're like a little bit older and that's all you want to do perhaps for some people, right? So it's just like another example being like, we're not static beings. And that's the point of, I think, like, cyclical mindfulness is that it's not,

it's not just about being the same all the time, or being the same every other week, you know, not every follicular phase is the same. Yeah, well, I was just going to say, because I feel like even the word cycle, we almost want to attach to a linear pattern to the cycle, right? We want to find a pattern and find this, like, wear of consistency and repetition. And that's not it, right? The whole point of the mindfulness and, like, the embodiment of it is that there isn't going

to be potentially that level of predictability that we're all craving. And so it's about getting comfortable with, no, there's going to be this constant evolution and being able to have capacity for that flexibility within ourselves. Which, yeah, which doesn't come right away. That's where we lead on community if we're able to. That's where there can be a certain degree of predictability where we understand that different types of hormones for, we chart it for a bit, like three, six months, a year, and you sort of start seeing your own personal patterning. And know the patterning, like we said, changes, but once you're really in tune with it and you let go of the expectation that it needs

to be the same all the time, it does still allow for some predictability. For me, I know generally at certain phases I feel a certain way. However, sometimes I don't. A lot of people put this label around ovulation, you're expected to feel more sexually interested, and that's not the case. And three months later- Yeah, my libido should be higher. And it's not always true.

Maybe you have other factors impacting you and yeah, I think just offer some gentleness. Anyone who's listening, offer yourself some gentleness. You named in your own story how impactful having that friend to witness you and like the community aspect. That's important here too because it helps us to see ourselves through an unbiased lens and it can help us zoom out because sometimes we get so wrapped into our own experience. And the other thing I want to name here, I'm just still chewing on like the sensory stuff and reflecting on how, yeah, like in my luteal phase, I, as a mom, I feel so much more touched out. I'm still breastfeeding my daughter.

And so that is just a completely different experience for me, the days leading up to my period, than is the rest of my cycle. Like I swear, every month on day like 26, 27 of my cycle, I'm like, I don't ever want to breastfeed again. This is the end. We're going to stop. And then of course, like that cloud blows over and we're good again. And so just learning that cycle for yourself, or another one that I'm thinking about is

my desire and my ability to concentrate, I guess, while reading a book or even to sit down and journal, like that is a cyclical thing for me. I will go through periods where I just have no motivation and no desire, and I can see that it tracks with where I'm at in my cycle. And it's just so cool, so liberating, so empowering when you start making those connections. Yeah, if I can add just, I guess, like a final thing to that

is I think, you know, mentioning focus and thinking of different medications that folks might be taking, I think it's important to note that the metabolism, because your brain chemistry changes, because your body chemistry is changing, your metabolism is also changing, right? We can understand this through – Like ADHD meds, for example. Yes. We can see this through, you know, experiences like period poos, feeling more hungry, more

bloated at different times in our cycles, but also furthering that, metabolism of different types of medications that you take to manage any type of mental health or other health concerns might also change in their effectiveness based on how your body is metabolizing at that time in your cycle, which can be challenging to navigate because like what then? However, that's something maybe to chat with your practitioner about who offered that to you if that's something you're noticing. If you're saying like, during this phase of my cycle, I am noticing that my medication seems less effective. Is there something I can do in that time to maybe make a change there? So

I felt like in terms of support and being mindful that your medication may work, like maybe not the same for everyone, it may work really well at certain times. And other times it might not work as well. And that's okay. But again, just communicate with your care team if it's impacting your life. I love that. Thank you for naming that. Yeah, that's actually really interesting to think about.

And obviously medication is a good example, but it also like makes it's everything. Right? Like your body is experiencing everything that you are consuming at a different intensity, right? So it might even be your sensitivity to the conversation on politics or your capacity to deal with an angry customer at work or, right, it's like all of these things. And so to just notice and begin to, yeah, use the labels as an identifier to give yourself that compassion and it's almost like permission giving in a way and it's annoying that we need that but it is it is because we're comparing ourselves to a neurotypical non-cyclical menstruating being right or past self yeah they

beg yeah or past self that's so true self. Yeah, or a past self. That's so true too. Or someone else that we're looking to online that is on a different journey than us. Yeah. Yeah, I like to think of it as a sort of twofold, like our bodies as twofold system. One, we've got like a spoon theory, if you're familiar with that, where you have X number of spoons to offer. Right?

You know, like each day, each day you start with five spoons and then different things happen and they take away spoons, which is their capacity. They take away your capacity. Now, someday maybe they don't take them away, maybe they add, or some days they take them away really fast. And that's going to change how our body reacts. And then I also like to think of our body and our hormones as messengers or as workers in a grocery store. And there's 12 aisles in the grocery store, and maybe aisle seven has like a spill, so people from three other aisles are coming over there, which is leaving other departments without support. And thinking of that in the context of our body is, okay, so all my spoons in my brain department or all my spoons in my, you know, my brain department or all my spoons in my socially

acceptable or my masking or my, my heart giving or, you know, my bowel department are gone. You know, when I, my, I got diarrhea, like I, my spoons are gone there. So all my other faculties maybe are focusing in this one department. And I think that those are helpful frames to think of our body. Yeah, things just are moving around and they're fluid and all that stuff. I think that really like names the holistic sense at its core, right? Like the true meaning of what a holistic perspective would be on all of this. Yeah and that's like a lot of what I do with my clients, right? Like it's just like sitting there with them, being that friend to tell them, but guess what you're experiencing is normal for you based on what we've shared.

And what, like, and if you, like, what direction do you want? What do you want? So, and, and what does, you know, does your, does your department store have a sale on carrots today, or is it something else? What do you want? So just like focusing on where to focus those faculties to offer our bodies those compassions and to send ourselves through to that that realm of, you know, I think they talk about Maslow's needs of being a hierarchy of needs, Maslow's hierarchy of needs, and like at the top is self-actualization. And so all of this stuff we've talked about today just

gives our bodies and our brains more ability to self-actualize and look at ourselves from an external point of view and offer a different way of how we see ourselves in the world and how we exist for ourselves in our body and in our community. Yeah, that's kind of my thing. Yeah, so good. Okay, is there anything else coming up for you that you feel like we haven't touched on and we should? I don't think so. Yeah. My brain's getting tired. Yeah. Yeah, no, this was a lot. And I like, I mean, all of my conversations end up doing this. I see this like beautiful web and all these different friends that we pulled on.

And I appreciate you so much for just, yeah, untangling this web with me because it is, it is complex. And I just want to also emphasize, and you've named this already several times, that this is unique to each person. And I think that's why it's so important to do your own tracking to really begin to see what the patterns look like for you. Because, like, you name, like, you have heightened smell in this part of your cycle and this and that, that's not going to be the same for everybody. So you can't just listen to one person and be like, oh well that's going to be for me. You have to find out for yourself.

It gets to be so complex and that's annoying and also like really, really beautiful. Like it just helps you understand yourself more. And I think coming back to what I was naming around exploration versus prescription, these get to be tools for exploration. I really see it no different as like exploring human design and like astrology and like other things that people get so excited about when they're learning about themselves. It's no different. Yep. Yeah. It's so true. It's so true. Okay, what are your current offers right now? Like how can people work with you? I know you do virtual and in person.

Tell us a little bit more about that. And then of course, where you are online. Yeah, amazing. So right now I am, I have a couple of classes on my website, cycle syncing for the holidays, I think is the one I've got up right now. So more will be coming, which is really exciting. And I'm newly branding right now, which is really, really exciting. Rebranding. So that, yeah, I'm in Peterborough. HeatherSolistics.ca is my website on Instagram at HeatherWhitter

underscore underscore. And then, underscore, underscore. And then, yeah, I have, so one of my advocacy projects for menstrual health is the Cycles of Change project, which is a photo project that aims to normalize situations around menstruation. So a lot of what we do is just take pictures of things people go through and then make them available for educators. Again, it's breaking that cycle of silence, right? You get to see yourself in those images. Yeah, so that's like something that they're for free or by donation for any educator to

use and to pay for that project. I host the occasional Peery Power Panel. So I've got one coming up on May 6th. I don't know when this is airing, but with quite a powerhouse of people and we'll be talking about menstrual health and mental health and we need like a psychotherapist, nurse psychotherapist, fertility awareness educators, rich like menstrual cycle coaches. So it'll be such a cool conversation. Yeah, so needed.

Yeah, so that's what's coming up. Amazing. Oh, amazing. Okay, so cool. Thank you, Heather. And for anyone that is listening to this and doesn't know me, Unruly is an eight week roundtable in a business lab for neurodivergent and like neuro, just the non-neurotypical coaches, doers and healers that are really wanting to deepen their own exploration around

literally everything we've kind of talked about here, right? The cycles and just like your different sensory needs and how creation moves through you and all of that stuff. So obviously links for all of the things, Heather's things and my things will be in the show notes. And yeah, reach out to both of us. Let us know what stirs and lands from this episode. We'd love to hear. And again, that's it. It's always awesome. We can say goodbye.