REWILD + FREE - Finding Alignment Between Career and Motherhood, with Ashley Beatty

Episode Date: June 13, 2023

Is it your intuition or society's "to-do" list? Have you ever stopped to check in with yourself and actually notice if that thing your doing (planning a wedding, preparing for a baby, or moving up in your career, etc) is guided by your intuition or just the next thing to cross off the (never ending) list of things society expects from you? I'm certainly guilty of living by default and getting wrapped up in the 'checklist',  striving to meet my next career goal and chasing society's definition of success... but this episode isn't about me! It's about Ashley! This week, I'm joined by Ashley Beatty who is a self development coach and fellow student in the Seasons of Matrescence® training I'm part of right now. She's also a mom and teacher from Ontario, Canada. Ashley shares her journey through motherhood and how she trusted her intuition while balancing her professional goals with the turbulence of new motherhood.  Listen in to uncover the wisdom she's gained along the way.  We also explore:how to find alignment between professional goals, career and motherhoodnavigating expectations versus reality within new motherhood the significance of investing in ourselves, avoiding the comparison game, and recognizing our own strengths and weaknesseshow motherhood can be an opportunity to unearth new passions and find your true path in life embracing and embodying the full spectrum of being a momDon't miss this uplifting and empowering episode as we continue to celebrate the resilience, strength, and wisdom of mothers everywhere.  And be sure to tune into Episode 12 and 14 to continue hearing vulnerable and inspirational stories from other moms in this (sort of unintentional) three part series on Matrescence!  When not momming or teaching 8th grade, Ashley is self development coach who empowers women to discover who they are at their core through genuine and authentic connection. She supports working moms to live with greater alignment. To learn more about her 1:1 coaching offerings, check out her website hereConnect with Ashley on IG (@ashleybeatty16)Connect with Nicole on IG (@nicolepasveer)Apply to join Nicole on the show hereSupport the showConnect with Nicole on IG (@nicolepasveer) Want to be a guest on the podcast? Fill out this form

You can't seek a profession, professional life and meet your professional goals without also talking about your life as a mother. The two go hand in hand. And to find alignment and to find that path that allows you to do both in a way that balances them, which is going to be different for every person, that to me is just pure magic and everyone deserves to figure that piece out. Welcome to the Not Just a Mom Show, where we have open and honest conversations about the vulnerabilities and the victories within entrepreneurship and new motherhood. If we haven't met yet, I'm Nicole Pazvir and I'm going to be your host. Here on the show, we don't subscribe to perfection. In fact, being present is the new perfect and showing up messy is the

new norm. My hope is that this podcast serves as a safe space for me and inspiration for you to stop living life watered down. Together, we will uncover versions of our most potent selves where we show up unapologetically, intentionally, and without filter. We are worthy, just as we are, as all that we are, not just the label we put on ourselves. We are more than just a mom, and I'm so glad you're here. Have you ever stopped to check in with yourself and actually notice if that thing you're doing, say a wedding, planning for a baby, or making the next career change, is guided by your intuition or just another thing to cross off the never-ending list of things society expects from us. I know I've certainly been guilty of this, but this episode

isn't about me. It's actually about my friend Ashley. This week I'm joined by Ashley Beattie, who is a self-development coach and fellow student in the Seasons of Matrescence training I'm currently doing right now. And in this episode, she shares her own journey through motherhood and how she's trusted her intuition while balancing her professional goals and turbulence that comes with new motherhood. The thing that's really cool about Ashley's story is she's already 10 years into motherhood. So she's had a lot of time reflecting on like her birth experience her postpartum experience and all the things that have kind of unraveled in her journey so far including a cross-country move and going back to work while her husband took on the role of stay at home dad so it was really cool to witness Ashley reflect on all of this in its entirety

she shared with me that this was the first time that she's actually shared her story kind of from beginning to end, and I am just constantly so grateful for this podcast and for you guys to keep listening each week and for this space to have women just like Ashley come and share their story. Before we get into it, I do want to remind you that this is technically the second episode in my three-part matrescence journey series, if we're calling it that. In case you missed it, last week we heard from Dana, who shares her matrescence journey into a queer awakening, and next week I have Nikki joining me who shares her story which includes navigating postnatal

depression and just all the unexpected turbulence that comes with new motherhood and I think all three of these unique stories have universal threads and pieces that we can all relate to. Before I start rambling on and potentially get emotional and mushy about how amazing it's been to have these conversations with these women, I am going to hit play on my conversation with Ashley. This is always awkward. Do I introduce how I know you or do we just start talking? But let's just start talking so hello hi I'm so excited to be here Nicole I have to tell you that being on a podcast or having a podcast is a dream of mine that is very much tied into my motherhood journey so I'm like yeah this is oh I love it I'm so happy you're here too and I'm so happy that you are um literally living

a tiny part of your dream right now that's awesome that's something to celebrate yeah don't you ever like have those moments where you're you're literally just existing and you stop for a second you're like holy cow I'm literally like doing the things that like five ten years ago were in my wildest dreams no it really did take more time to appreciate them but yeah this is one of those things so that's so cool to hear yeah let's like let's just like dive right in so you are a mom of two um that's really all I know about your babies other than you have two you are in Ontario Canada right and you are a teacher currently working part-time an eighth grade teacher but yeah tell me more about your motherhood journey and if we want if it if it if it makes sense you can kind of weave in some of your career in that as well because I imagine there was

maternity leaves while you were teaching and I know there's some changes coming up for you right now as well so feel free to weave some of that in if it makes sense yeah it's all kind of coming into one path which is pretty cool um but yeah I've got two little not so little ones um I have a daughter who is nine and a half will be 10 in October and a son who is four gonna be five in a couple of weeks so yeah I've been on this road for, I guess, just a little over 10 years, which is wild to think. And, yeah, I guess if I look back to the beginning, I would start with my relationship. My husband, we were both teachers and met. And we started dating, got engaged, got married very quickly. So within a couple of weeks of dating, now bear in mind, we'd known each other for a

while. We were really good friends, but he bought an engagement ring for me about a week after we started dating. Proposed less than six months later. And 12 months later we were married uh about six weeks later we got pregnant so it was just like boom boom boom boom um also got a dog when I was about five months pregnant so we were just like check check check check like all yeah I was just about to say like talk about like the to-do list that we write for ourselves like you guys were just banging it out like one thing after the next crossing it off the list um that's hilarious that he bought the ring a week after you guys started dating but then still waited five months or six months to propose an epic, yeah, it was pretty spectacular. So, yeah, it's crazy how when I look back and think, yeah, was I, you know, how much of it was me checking the boxes and how much of it was, you know, really me listening to my intuition and I can honestly say the decision to get married intuition because

I remember thinking oh gosh this is fast but there wasn't a doubt in my mind and then the dog was definitely an intuition thing it was the nesting it was the me wanting connection, me wanting to nurture and mother something, even though I had a baby in my belly. I just wanted that feeling of, yeah, just creating this little family, I guess. And so, yeah, a lot of people thought we were crazy. It was, yeah, there were moments. Yeah. Hearing you say that gave me literally full body chills because not very often can we discern between our intuition and I guess often the opposing side would be fear. But in your case,, just like that logical thinking

brain where it's like, this doesn't make sense. This is crazy. And yet you still did the thing because your intuition was so strong and you chose to listen. And that's amazing because I feel like not many of us do that, especially when we're younger and we have no idea what we're doing and we're trying to just show up and be successful new adults, right? Totally. Yeah. But I would say pregnancy was a different story. I think I thought that's what you do after you get married and by no means do I have any regrets, but the timing, certainly it was a lot. The other piece was that we moved, we were located in Ontario at that time, and we moved when my daughter was nine months old to BC. So we did a cross Canada, left our jobs move. So that added to the postpartum experience. But yeah, a lot of major

life changes in a really short amount of time. I often, and I think a lot of people can probably relate to this, do the things and then realize the toll they've taken on me. And so I didn't have the foresight to think, huh, what kind of toll is this going to take on me personally as an individual? This is great for my family, this move, this is great for husband, for his work. This is great in all these other areas, but what is this going to do to me? You know? As women and as mothers and as wives, it's so easy to put everyone else before ourselves, right? It's ingrained in us to do that. And then we're conditioned and praised by society to keep doing it. So had you put like the brakes on and said, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, this doesn't make sense. I'm like, not even 10 months postpartum. We are just figuring this parenthood stuff out. You would have potentially like looked like,

I don't know the context of the situation, but potentially you could have looked like a bad wife for not supporting your husband or whatever other stories might have been painted had you made a different decision. So that's interesting that, like you said, it's easy to see that now, but in the moment, it's very, very hard to actually put yourself first and think about what the consequences of all those changes are going to have on you physically, emotionally, all the things. Yeah. And I think initially too, postpartum within those first 10 months, we're trying to decide what to move. I also, I think the focus was very much on doing the things for the baby. It was not how is this affecting me? Not how am I feeling? Not my own experience with it. And how am I changing?

And as we're learning through our matricence course, that there are so many things that change and are affected within the mother. And I was going through all those and fighting them, but not recognizing that that's what was happening. So from the outside, probably looked like everything was fine. We had this beautiful family, beautiful daughter, the dog, we're making this big move like, Oh, wow, really cool. Look at them.

They've got it all together. And I had no idea how, um, how disconnected, I guess I was from myself. I just didn't even recognize myself. I, I was trying to figure that out at the same time. And I guess I just look back now and think I was just, um, for one, I think that move, I was blindly following my husband. I just very much trusted that this was a great idea. And it was, had some really positive things to it. But again, I didn't stop to think, what about me? Where am I going to work? What are the opportunities for me? I just thought, this is great. And so that kind of makes me mad when I think, and no one was asking me. No one was asking me either.

What are you going to do? I think that just says it all right there, right? It just shows the disconnect that society has in valuing the mother. And when someone has a baby, all the focus is on the baby and maybe the family unit as a whole. So like you said, it looked like you guys had it together. You were making this cross-country move. You had the dog, you had stable careers. Like it looks like you are thriving, but nobody actually like hones in and checks on mom. And that just perpetuates ourselves from not checking in on ourselves either, because we don't have the space to we literally don't have the space to because whatever the answer is when we do that check-in we very likely might not even be able to meet that need or follow up to whatever it is that our intuition our heart is telling us when we check in.

Yeah. And that's just so sad. It's so sad. But I think that's a common story for many of us. Yeah. But I was happy, you know, I really didn't even know that I was suffering on the inside. And that's another, I think, thing that I look back and I was, yeah, it was like foggy. I was, um, not clear on my priorities and my values and things like that. I just was going through a lot of motions and, um,

but yeah, then that intuition started speaking really loudly when things, uh you know when we moved really bothered me really bothered me um and i remember thinking something isn't right something just doesn't fit here and i think a lot of it had to do with i don't know i'm trying to think of an example um i'm trying to be politically correct here because I don't want to say the wrong thing, but anyway, I know we can edit something out if we have to, but I remember. And there's no wrong thing. Whatever you say is probably the right thing. But this is, I think, a really great example that illustrates what I'm trying to say. I was working. So at the same place as my husband, he had to leave for work. So I ended up having to bring my daughter to work.

She's a year and a half at this point. And the scenario was a student. So we were working at the school and it was a student who had come to back to speak at the school about a really personal experience of hers. And I knew this student quite well and had worked closely with her for the last six months. And she was coming to speak about a really personal issue. And I was like, wow, this is fantastic. What an example she's setting. And I'm so proud of her. I need to be there. I have my daughter. I don't have anyone to look after her, but I need to be there. So I went and it was in this theater and as 18 months, 18 month olds tend to do, she made a little noise. So I stood in the hallway outside the theater and she walked up and down the hallway, kind of chit-chatting away to herself, but happy noises.

Yep. And someone came to the door, told me to shush, another adult, and closed the door on me. And in that moment, I raged. Actually, no, I didn't rage. I was so embarrassed and sad. And the tears just, I couldn't get back to my apartment fast enough. But I really think it's a strong example of how I just didn't feel supported. And I didn't know how to navigate that.

But there I was trying, showing up, doing my best that I could and was told to be quiet. And I think that, you know, everyone was in their best interest. That person was looking after that student and trying to give her the best experience possible. I totally respect that. But again, no one was asking, what do you need? How can I help? I was going to say, and you also had your own feelings and you were just shut out. You were told to be quiet or your daughter was, you were basically told to quiet your daughter who isn't even doing anything wrong. She's just being an 18 month old. And then you are basically kicked out and told you don't belong here. Yeah. Yeah. So, and then I, you know, just felt like, what am I doing here?

Why am I here? What is the point point I can't even do what I know is right is for me to be there supporting that student and yet I can't be there in the moment or even in the days after could you see um like the wrongness of that from the other party or were you internalizing it as like it's something I did wrong like I shouldn't have been there I shouldn't have had my daughter there I should have made sure we were quieter like what was going on in your mind the days after that if you remember I think I was mad at the person yeah I just thought oh that person is insensitive yeah as opposed to thinking it's a bigger issue you know what I mean because he's a bigger issue

and um and I think because it represented the lack of support that I felt and not just at that job or in that move, just from the get-go, you know? And that's not to say that people weren't there for me. It's not to say that I was all by myself. It's just what I'm learning now about matrescence and all of the changes. It's that nobody was recognizing all of those things in me and we've also been learning about how this information is passed down from generation to generation and so it's just sad that there were so many people that

could have been passing that down but society and and whatnot has prevented that from happening so no one's done anything wrong yeah it's just we're not set up for success yeah yeah no that's exactly it we're not set up for success and there just isn't the space um to actually feel all the emotions, right? It sounds like very quickly you would have had to just kind of keep on going and make sure that never happened again. And again, just no room to check in with, well, what do I actually want here? Like, and why is it that that person's feelings or opinions that your toddler was being too loud, Trump, your feelings and opinions that you want to be in the theater listening to your past student, right? Like the, the, the weight of worthiness is so off balance and yet I feel like society can agree that being a mother is one of the most important jobs in the world but actions speak louder than words and the action nobody's acting

on it no one's stepping up yeah and I guess you know when you say did you internalize it you know I probably did and the internalization was why didn't I make arrangements for my kid why didn't I find someone to watch her why can I not you know set things up like that why did you decide to take on this role if you knew you had these obligations with your child so young why did you move across the country where you didn't away from your support system yeah yeah what were you thinking and no one said that to me but that's definitely the feeling I had maybe it's a story I created in my head but yeah that was that was the way I internalized it I think yeah yeah when I could see how like

if you continue to internalize it and if you continue to tell the stories in your head it very quickly could spiral into I'm failing as a mother right and um it can get dark from there so anyways tell tell me more so at this point you're 18 months ish um you're back at work you guys are still in a new province new city very little support system yeah and i think what you just said right there kind of i just had a bit of an aha that i felt like a failure many times because of certain things like my child couldn't be quiet at a thing at an event. Like she was sleeping at night and then she wasn't. What's wrong with her? What's wrong with me that she's not sleeping through the night?

I'm doing something wrong because she's not sleeping. Yeah. Yeah. She wasn't a great eater. Wouldn't try new foods. What's wrong with me that I can't get her? Look at all these other babies that eat, you know, whatever's put in front of them. Mine won't. What's wrong with me that I can't get her all these other babies that he, you know, whatever's put in front of them. Mine won't what's wrong. Yeah. And so I think I'm pretty sure dads aren't laying awake at night having those thoughts.

Yeah. It would be rare if they did, I think. And, um, yeah yeah and I think I was shoving those feelings down I don't remember really worrying about them I just remember this like basically a chronic you suck you suck you're really bad at this you don't know what you're doing and and then I remember another vivid moment of that experience out West was driving. It was around Christmas time. So now she's two years old and maybe two months. And I remember going, I don't know, crying. We were driving somewhere, the three of us in the car and my husband, my daughter and I.

And I just remember sobbing and saying, I don't know how to do this. I don't want to do this anymore. I don't know how. And at that point, you know, tantrums had started. She was too, you know, pushing back. And I just was like, I don't want to do anymore. I'm still not cut out for this. Why did I think I was?

And it was an awful feeling. And I'm sure I scared the life out of my husband. He's probably like, Oh no, what have we done? Like, you're the one that's supposed to know what you're doing. I'm just following you, you know, not really, but yeah. So that, that was, um, and I wouldn't say that was like a turning point or anything. I just picked myself back up because you do, because you have to. And it's not like that kid's going away and I just continued to try different things. But again, the focus was always on the things for the child. Okay, are they meeting this milestone are they doing this and um what was the turning point eventually I guess um well wasn't for another few years but um we decided to move back to Ontario when she was just over two and a half. So we stayed out West for two years. And I think when I think back on this experience,

it was me looking for more, looking for a connection, looking to solve it, like looking to find something that fulfilled me. Instead of looking at me, I was looking to do something else I was like okay well maybe this job would do it you know maybe being back in Ontario closer to friends that'll do it um so we did and again people thought we were crazy why would you leave BC it's so beautiful it's so beautiful and it is Of course it is. I could go back there in a heartbeat, but it was a really difficult experience. So anyway, we moved back. We moved into Toronto.

That was crazy. I had a job. My husband stayed home for a year. The flack he got. Oh, that's for a whole other podcast episode. Yeah, that was difficult. Let's pause there for a second, though, because I would love to hear not so much like the flack he got, but just what it was like for you having to hold space for almost like the stereotypical role reversal, right? So now you are the breadwinner, you are the mom leaving the house to go to work and your husband's the stay at home dad.

But what is it like when, I don't know, like let's say, I'm trying to think of an example, like just something casual that someone would say because the assumption is that it's mom at home but because that wasn't your story like was that difficult to navigate for him yes for me I loved it loved it I loved it. I loved feeling, um, what's the right word? Um, I loved setting that example for my daughter. I loved that she was getting that time with him, that she was getting to bond with him because I knew I had a connection with her.

Right. Because you had it previously. Yeah. Was there ever any guilt? Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. you had it previously yeah was there ever any guilt oh yeah oh yeah um yeah so I would then overcompensate and I remember like uh booking at home after work to be the one to take her to the swim lessons to like which at that age it's you spend more time in the change room than you do in the freaking water and of course you have to change too right so it's like i'm like what am i doing what am i doing and um but i did it right and um then on weekends i would carve out special time just for her and me to make sure that, you know, I felt like we had to do that. Um, and then I felt badly if I, you know,

my girlfriends invited me to go away for a weekend and be like, well, I can't do that because I've now worked all week. Dad's been with her all week. Oh, that's tough yeah so that was hard but um and it was hard I think yeah the pressure of being the one going every day and what if and then I hated the job that was tough you know I'm like we've just moved back and initially in the first few months I was like oh no what have we done again and the guilt I felt about that but I'd put so much pressure on myself for it to be the job right and like you have to be successful then because if it doesn't work out then all fingers get to be pointed at you yeah and that's a lot so i've shown it successful

so i made it successful i blood sweat and tears a lot of tears a lot more than the blood and sweat but yeah and i was like i'm gonna turn this around I'm gonna make it fucking work and so um yeah that but that was obviously tough then our second year there that's when I all of a sudden I get my intuition when it talks it is hit me over the head loud. And it said, it's time for another baby. And so I remember seeing other women pregnant and I'd be like, oh my God, I'm so jealous. Like just the jealousy would come over me. And I was like, it's time. I want another one. I assume you didn't have any of those feelings the previous three, four years before that. Not at all.

I was fully prepared to be, just have one child. Oh, okay. So the plan for you guys was always one that you were never like, like just thinking in, in my own, in my own story right now, like we do want other children um so like that is part of the plan but me walking around right now and seeing other pregnant women I am definitely not jealous it's quite the opposite in fact it's like I like I'm so glad I'm not in your shoes right now I do not want to be pregnant right now um so I guess that's my intuition telling me on the other side that no, it's not time yet. But that's really cool. So to hear that a second child was never

really part of the plan in the back of your head. And then now whoosh, there's these super strong feelings of, I need to have another baby. it was actually I always wanted three kids okay had one was like oh no this is not what I thought it was gonna be you kidding me I'm gonna do more of this yeah um I'm really bad at it it wasn't that anything wrong with her it was me I just thought I was really bad at it and not cut out for it and um yeah then all of a sudden something changed and I was like I really want this and I also had that feeling of it's now or never she's now her um or three and a half yeah she was four and a half when just over four and a half when my son was born so yeah I was like was like, it's now or never. And, but yeah, those feelings did come strong and fast. Like you should do this. piece of my story that I think is worthwhile sharing is that I've suffered from anxiety and

depression for a good portion of my adult life and um pre-baby as well or just postnatally yeah pre-baby yeah and so I was on antidepressants through both pregnancies but i wasn't when i got pregnant with my second okay and wasn't on medication and the hormones they also came really fast and just raged through my body and I was a mess. I was crying all the time. I was terrified, absolutely terrified. Um, so went back on the medication about two months in and haven't looked back, but, uh, that was, that was scary to just suddenly feel this, like really, you know, go from this high of like, well, I want to get pregnant. I want to get pregnant. Oh my gosh, I'm pregnant. Boom, crash. And that was really tough. And then making the decision to go on the medication when I was pregnant. And I know that's a taboo subject for, for a lot of people,

but that's my story. And, and, you know, I think I was healthier for it. Um, but, uh, it also came with, um, they recommended a psychiatrist for me. So I did have, have emotional support, which I think is important. But anyway, the rest of the pregnancy was relatively fine and really good birth experience. And then we moved again. And with it, so within my son's, I think about four or five weeks from him being born, he went to a communion, a wedding, a wedding anniversary, a funeral, and moved and took a cross-country flight.

Wow. cross-country flight wow so that was a really chaotic and frenetic start to his life and I think I shared this on one of our matrescence calls I remember vividly being like just want to sit on the couch and breastfeed. That is all I want. And I feel like this, when he was born, though, my intuition started, I think I started listening to it more because I knew I'd done this before. And so I remember thinking and actually like voicing that. So not just thinking it up here, but I then said it out loud and then that's just I started doing that more I think anyway after we moved after about six weeks into his life things started to to settle and then Lori went back to school and she started SK and so I had suddenly a bit more time and

it was just me and my son and literally all we would do every day. We'd walk the dog who was now five years old, sweetheart of a dog. And I would listen to podcasts and that was like our daily activity and all of a sudden it was like I had space for it I'm like oh my gosh I want to learn more I want to like take it I don't know where it came from but I just it was like something like cloud lifted and suddenly there was space in my brain to handle this stuff and I mean like the realm of motherhood, like it didn't feel like in comparison to your daughter's birth and your postpartum experience with her, where you were constantly feeling underqualified and not cut out for it and

almost resisting to step into that role. It sounds like the complete opposite here with your son. You're wanting to soak it all in and really just absorb everything you can get your hands on and how to embody being a mother. Is that right? Yeah, totally. being a mother is that right yeah totally and I I just I think suddenly there was space because I wasn't second guessing everything and like and not to say that there weren't stressful moments like he was not a good sleeper and I during the day he went out for more than 20 minutes

and at night he was up two three times a night at like four months old and I during the day he went not for more than 20 minutes and at night he was up two three times a night at like four months old and I remember I said I'm doing something my husband had gone away he was working traveling or something and I was like I'm at my wits end I need sleep so I got someone to help me I just made the call and I said I'm'm not going to wait for Simon to get home to ask him about this. I'm going to do it. And I did. And it made all the difference. And she just came in and told me, um, I hesitate to use the word sleep train, um, because I don't think that's what it was. Um, she taught me what he was capable of and so gave you the confidence and the skill set to support him better yeah and within two nights he was sleeping 12 14 hours and not once did he cry

not once did i have any of those uncomfortable, awful experiences, but I suddenly knew how I could, what he was capable of, I could hold him capable of, of sleeping. And that was a really empowering experience. And that made a big difference because now I was sleeping and he was sleeping and I, I had the tools to support him through that. And what that allowed me then to do was not have my head filled with the worry of I'm failing. Should I have done this? Maybe I should go and do do this maybe I should have put him down earlier okay tomorrow night I'm going to put him down a little bit earlier or I'm going to go in and do the dream feat I'm going to do this I'm going to do that right my head wasn't filled with all of those thoughts so that was pretty cool I think which again in contrast to the experience with your daughter where you said you were kind of just at this like borderline of like, I suck. Like you felt like you were borderline failing at everything. I can see how empowering it would be to feel like you succeeded at something and then to have the tools and the skillset moving forward to have the confidence in yourself and not needing to look externally for whatever it is, right?

Not necessarily related to sleep, but anything else like that. That's a total boost in self-esteem, right? That's huge. But I didn't know that's what I was doing either. It's just, again yeah you know like I sought out this person to help me a little and I chose her because I appreciated that it wasn't this like I don't know crazy sleep training thing it was about empowering me. How cool is it that it worked out like that? But I feel like that's a great example of your intuition speaking and things falling into alignment.

Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, then I fell in love with podcasts and just would listen to them non-stop whenever I was you know cooking or I was walking and um yeah I was like one day I'm gonna have my own podcast and one day I'm gonna be on people's podcasts yeah so um yeah I think I just it started it prompted I think my my son being born prompted me to stop looking outward and start looking inward and figuring out and I was like wow and then I just started noticing what I was interested in listening to in terms of podcasts and I I was like, Oh, I'm really fascinated by neuroscience and mental health and how the two merge. Um, yeah. And I really loved, that's embarrassing, The Bachelor and The Bachelorette trashy tv but i loved listening

about relationships and talking about people and their stories and that i couldn't get enough of it yeah um and so i think that helped me figure out a bit more about who I, who I am. Um, so that's been a really cool, I think, experience and it just continued. I continue to look, learn so much more about myself and my interests as I've now had space to, to do that. Did you go back to work after a year with your son? Yes. Or did your husband stay home or what were the dynamics work and career wise for you? Yeah. So I stayed home for 14 months just because as a teacher, that was the way it worked out and started at a new job. And this time I was working in student support, which was different from being in the classroom full time. I was working with students in smaller groups or one-on-one providing social emotional support

and programming related to that. And I loved it because suddenly my observations about people and relationships were valid yeah and and that I was like okay this is my dream job this is it it um however i found after you know and then pandemic hits and i'm still doing this but found that yes to an extent i love it i love helping people i love connecting one-on-one but within the the education system there's so much, there's only so much impact you can have. Yeah. I was like, I want more. This isn't enough. I want, I now know this is like the direction I want to go with my career, but this is still not, still not fulfilling me enough. And that's when I, the same time I was doing a coaching program for myself. And that's when I, at the same time I was doing a coaching program for myself. And that's where I was learning even more about myself and I was feeding my soul.

And I was learning about high achieving women with anxiety. That's what the program was designed for. And so it was all these women saying like, I think the same things. I overthink this, I overthink this. And, and here's some strategies. And it was brilliant. It was all these women saying like, I think the same things. I overthink this. I overthink this. And here are some strategies. And it was brilliant. It was exactly what I needed at exactly the right time. And I don't know that I would have done that prior. You know, in the early stages of motherhood, I don't think I would have even considered it. But suddenly I was like, yeah, you know, in the early stages of motherhood, I don't think I would have even considered it.

But suddenly I was like, yeah, you know what? Self, um, to spend time on myself, to invest in myself. Yeah. This is worthwhile. And it was, and it has been anyway. So that was, I got to experience what it's like to do group coaching and be on the receiving end of, of group coaching. And, uh, I just knew, I don't know, somehow it was like, yeah, this is what I want to do. I want to coach people. How do I do this? Um, so I figured out how to do it and, um, but what I do as a coach is I want to work with women and support everything. Like I've just talked about. Yeah. You can't seek a profession,

um, professional life and meet your professional goals without also talking about your life as a mother. Yeah. The two go hand in hand. Yeah. And so that, you know, and to find alignment and to find that path that allows you to do both in a way that balances them, which is going to be different for every person, that to me is just pure magic and everyone deserves to figure that piece out. Yeah, I agree. I agree. Like the world would be an entirely different place if everyone's mother was supported to follow her dreams and live in alignment in whatever way that looks like. So I don't think I would have figured that out had it not been for my kids because

yeah I think they they force not force that's the wrong word they push you to look at those things that are hard um look at. And learning more about myself has made me a much better mom because I know what I'm good at and I know what I'm not good at. I am not going to be the mom that makes costumes for my kids. I am not going to be the one that sets up cute little scavenger hunts or Easter egg hunts and that kind of thing. That's just not me. But I will be the mom that's teaching my kids how to write thank you cards. And I will be the mom that is going to encourage them to read books that are, you know, a little bit more challenging for them. And I'm going to be the mom that bakes with them because those are the things that I enjoy. I love those examples

because I think it can be so easy probably anytime, but especially in motherhood to get stuck in that comparison game of thinking, oh, well, I'm not a good mom because I'm not doing it the way so-and-so is doing. So I'm not a good mom because I don't make Halloween costumes at Halloween. And instead of actually illuminating our strengths and what we are good at, it's human nature, I think, to look at things that we're lacking. And it can be this, again, like deep, dark spiral that you can get stuck going into if your focus is on all the things that you're lacking and all the things that you don't have or aren't doing well enough. And back to your first experience with your daughter and that like

ongoing feeling of I'm not doing this right that's exactly what perpetuates that is feeling like I'm not enough I'm not doing this right I'm not doing the things that so-and-so is doing because we're always looking at someone else. Yeah. And it's easier said than done to not fall into that narrative. I think especially in new motherhood, when you are feeling so inadequate because it is so new, it is literally like I've said this before, like it literally feels like the ground beneath you is crumbled because everything is new, right? Your everything, like your role obviously is completely new. Now you are mom, not just Nicole, not just Ashley. In your case, you're no longer a teacher because you're at home with your baby. In my case, I'm no longer a nurse because I'm at home with my baby. And now you are responsible for another thing every waking moment of the day. And if you're breastfeeding, then you're their source of food. And obviously you're their source

of comfort and you're their teacher. And then of course, you're still doing all the things around the house. And yeah, it's really, really easy to just look outside and be like, well, I'm not doing it as good as so-and-so. And I think we forget that what we're seeing on the outside is often someone's – I mean, on social media, it's just a highlight reel. But in your example, you said from the outside, it looked like you guys were thriving. It looked like things were successful. You were moving across country. And we are so bad at letting people see all sides of us. And I think a big part of it is because we aren't even looking at all sides of us. We aren't even allowing ourselves, like you said, you weren't checking in with is because we aren't even looking at all sides of us. We aren't even allowing ourselves, like you said, we,

you weren't checking in with yourself. You weren't even asking yourself, what do I think of this? What does this mean for me? So how can we expect society to see us when we aren't even seeing ourselves? I didn't know to do that. Right. Yeah. Oh, it's not modeled to us. No. And so it's not modeled to us. No. And so. It's not modeled to us and it's not, like we aren't praised for it if we do do it. If we do it, then we look like we are needy or like too loud.

You went to the theater and your daughter was too loud. And then look what happened, right? We end up being shamed and literally kicked out of things, told we don't belong for something that you had every right to be doing. And your daughter had every right to be making noise and taking up space. Yeah. and taking up space. It's tricky when you start looking at this from more of like a systemic level, culturally, specifically like North America, like where do we go from here? How do we start swinging the other way? And I feel like

if I look at the whole system, I get really overwhelmed. Yeah. For me, it's just one person at a time. Yeah. Well, I'm not one person starts a time. Yeah. Person at a time. Well, and that one person starts with us. Yeah. And I think about what matrescence, that word even, has meant for me and figuring all this out and looking with hindsight. And if I can share that and make a difference for one other person, it's worthwhile because it has completely shifted and made sense of my world and my life and all of the struggles and helped me figure out who I am. So I, yeah, I want to, I want to sing it from, you know, the rooftops, but it's also not my style so i just want to bit by bit

talk to people connect with people and share yeah and i agree like that is where it starts because looking at it from the systemic level it is too big and we are just a small part of this world in this universe um there was something else I was gonna say and I forget yeah pause for one second I'm sorry hey Nicole I'm sorry oh you're muted there we go hi just bobbing away I was just thinking like we, we just touched on, like, so many different themes. And I'm like, okay, how do I want to, like, pull this all together? I was reflecting a bit on, I guess, like, my own experience and the parallels that I'm able to draw from both of your postpartum experiences. I think for me, like I'm always saying that becoming a mom for me, birth, pregnancy, all of it was a huge catalyst for personal discovery and just understanding myself more. So I definitely relate to everything you were saying with your second, but I also relate to the feelings of inadequateness and feeling like you're doing

something wrong and wanting to throw in the towel because you don't know what you're doing and I feel like I have moments of that almost at every new stage right so like as we move through like the early early early newborn stage into more like the baby stages like holy cow I have no idea what I'm doing like I just need her to go back to being this little potato baby I finally mastered that and now here we are and I feel like it's been constant so like every couple months it's like I figure it out. And I'm like, yeah, I can do this. I can do this. And then I'm hit with, oh, here we go. Like here's something completely new. Now she crawls. Now she walks. Now she whatever it is. And so I'm almost bombarded with those feelings again of what am I doing? I don't know what I'm doing. I'm not cut out for this. I never want more kids because this is too hard. All of those things. So I can really resonate with both of your experiences in different ways. And I guess my question for you, and you might not have an answer, but maybe you do because you've had some time and years have gone by to maybe reflect on both experiences, is what do you think made the difference for your second in terms of

you being so much more open to just like stepping into that role and being less resistive to the changes that come with motherhood because that's what I'm hearing from you is like the first with your daughter I think everything was so new and scary that it was just much more comfortable to get back into your career and get back into the things that you were confident in and the things that made you feel like you. And there was a lot of resistance to, I'm just a mom. And so what do you, can you pinpoint, was there a difference? Was it partially because you were back in Ontario with your support system was it because it was the second time around so you did know what you were

doing and you had the track record to prove it or what do you think it was I think it was partially that it was like oh I've done this before but I think more so it was the identity piece because the first time around I was like, Ashley, as a mom, who's that? And I really, it took me a long time to grow into that role and to feel comfortable in my own skin as a mom and to think of myself as Lauren's mom. And so when Noah was born, it was like, okay, I've been here before. This is already a part of my identity. It wasn't adding, it was adding a new dimension. Sure. You know, and now I'm mom of two as opposed to a mom of one but that wasn't as drastic as going from being just ashley and all my different roles pre-babies

to having a child which you know it's seeing yourself in that role, but it's also others seeing you in that role. My parents seeing me as a mom, my brothers seeing me as a mom, that felt so weird. My friends, you know, it was, it was uncomfortable. And so, and I was like, okay, what kind of mom am I going to be? Am I going to be the cool mom that just like my kid just fits into my life or you know and we resisted I think as a couple to um totally bending our life uh you know bending over backwards and and turning our lives inside out because we wanted to carry on in a way the same way and so we resisted the routines and the obsessing even though you really can't yeah because I may not be outwardly obsessing but it's happening inside yeah you know yeah um you can't get around it yeah once you're I don't know what as soon as I was pregnant it

you can't stop thinking about them and and they're always going to be a part of you, whether you resist it or not. It's just, the thoughts are just going to be different. So I think once I embraced it a little bit more, it became easier because like I said, my head wasn't consumed with the, is this right? Is this right? Or you suck. It was. And it sounds like you were probably in a place where you could be a bit more present and just be, and just exist. And like you said, like your daily activity turned into going for a walk with the baby and the dog and listening to a podcast. Um'm gonna guess that when you're on that walk and you're listening to that podcast you're not obsessing over the nap schedule and the milestones

like you were with your daughter it's just a very different um mindset that you're carrying around day in and day out so of course that's more enjoyable yeah and the ground just felt steadier even though like I explained all those changes happened all those events happened and yet the grounding the foundation was more stable and I'd worked through so many bumps and I'd had that experience to draw on. And all of that was growth, right? It was so uncomfortable. Often really ugly. But I wouldn't trade it for the world because yeah,

it's allowed me to love my kids harder, deeper and myself. Yeah. Yeah. And then now it's everyone more currently allowed you to evolve into following your passions and rippling, letting this ripple out into the world by coaching other women through it. Like talk about giving back. But it just feels so right. You know, it feels like a calling. It feels like, um, what I meant to do. And, and when I'm doing it, there is nothing that compares. That feeling of connecting with someone and seeing that empowerment,

which having experienced it is just pure magic. It's just really cool to hear the ups and the downs that come with everything we do and hearing you not necessarily name them as ups and downs, but hearing the ups and downs within your story and how you always come back to like this state of equilibrium and this state of alignment. It's just a matter of like, how much resistance are we putting on ourselves to get there? Right? Like we all want it. We want that that balance and that alignment

yeah I guess maybe like so one more thing like if if you could give advice I don't love that word, but if you could give advice or like some tangible takeaways of what people might be able to do to help get back into alignment, is there anything like top of mind for you or anything that you've specifically done or are working on yourself to stay in alignment? I think it's that idea of like I shared, like looking out and instead turn the lens back on you and look inward and anything that upsets you or bothers you in any relationship experience, whatever it is, if you ask yourself why you'll often figure out in my experience anyway there's something there's a reason it bothers you and if you can get to the root of that you can overcome it and it just allows you to have a lot more compassion for

yourself and for others um yeah, I just find that. I love that. I'm glad I asked because I think it can be that simple. And I often say like, instead of trying to ignore our triggers and the things that bother us or disrupt us or send us into overwhelm or any kind of feeling and emotion that we try to shush down instead like let's use those triggers as a gps to guide us on what needs to be worked through and what needs to be seen and heard and like you just said like looking inwards and actually holding space for the things going on inside of you is like the missing piece I think because if we're constantly just looking outside of ourselves, and if we're constantly stuck in comparison and just thinking that we're not enough and not seeing all parts of ourselves, then we're never going to come into that equilibrium

aligned state of being. There's a readiness factor that needs to be there I think yeah it's you know I wasn't ready you know and right after my first child couldn't have done that introspective work yeah and like you said like you weren't open to it you were just in the second time yeah one other piece that I was just reflecting on is for your first when we were kind of joking about society's to-do list and how you were quickly going through the list in terms of like how quickly you guys got engaged, married, dog, baby, you had mentioned,

and I don't know if this was intentional in sharing this part of your story, but you had mentioned that you were following your intuition in terms of the wedding, even though that felt crazy. You were following your intuition in terms of getting the dog, even though that was crazy too, considering how far along in your pregnancy you were. But you did kind of allude that getting pregnant with your son and how that was a huge full body, yes, like I need to be pregnant.

I'm jealous of pregnant people. I didn't even know I wanted a baby, but I know I want one now. I can't help but wonder if that you were already on the trajectory of having a different motherhood experience I think you were already more open it was a want not a like it was a true deep desire not a should and I mean I'm absolutely not saying that you didn't want your daughter you did but like 100% yeah like it was different and I wonder again like hindsight is 2020 right like we never know these things as we're going through them you would never know that there's a different feeling yeah of wanting to be pregnant until you experienced it yeah going looking back going into my first pregnancy it was I

really want this because of the vision I have of it with no kids and so and then I had that and that was great but it also came with all this other stuff that was really tough that no one talked about. You know what I mean? Yeah. Whereas going in the second time, I knew that stuff was going to be there. I knew there would be babies.

But I also knew that it was going to challenge me and push me to places. I'd never been before. And they did. Yeah. The other piece I was just thinking about is how it can be really easy to have these kind of like fixed expectations in our mind and just how disorienting it can be when reality doesn't meet those expectations. And so, of course, heading into a second pregnancy and having a second child, your expectations are a little bit more...

What's the word? Obviously, you don't know what that second child is going to be like temperament-wise. You don't know what your experience is going to be like but I just think you sort of know what to expect or at least you know to expect the unexpected versus the first time around I feel like we're naively hoping that we'll still be able to maintain a sense of control and we'll be able to clench on to that old identity and like you said like not bend over backwards and change all your rhythms and routines and if we are continuously resisting that then it just ends up being this obsession in our mind so either way like we should just give in it's so much easier if we just give in and embrace and embody all that it has because that's you know I don't have any regrets but I am sad that I didn't always embrace and embody the experience fully from the get-go.

Okay, before you go, I just wanted to say thank you for taking the time to listen to this episode. If you were thinking of anyone while listening, please send it their way. And if anything resonated with you or you love these conversations please subscribe and leave a review this really helps the podcast algorithms put my show in front of more people just like you and the last thing I would love nothing more than hearing from you so say hi dm me on instagram and give me a follow at nicole pasvir until next time