REWILD + FREE - HEALING AS A BYPRODUCT OF CREATION IN CONSCIOUS ENTREPRENEURSHIP WITH JULIA ALBAIN @RADICALHEALERS (64)

Episode Date: December 18, 2024

In this episode I'm delighted to have energy alchemist and consciousness artist, Julia Albain (@radicalhealers) join me for an epic conversation We pull on threads centered around conscious creation, collective healing, and what thriving and desiring looks like beyond survival We also chat about relational, non extractive biz creation that's truly aligned with personal and collective transformation Together, Julia and I discuss:The significance of self-trust and the courage and vulnerability required to to break up with 'good girl conditioning.'Overcoming tribalism and dominator systems that challenge our worth and existence.Shifting from survival to thriving by embracing heart-led, intuitive decisions.The essential act of surrendering and trusting in our intuitive flow - when to rest versus take aligned action How vulnerability and community play pivotal roles in validating our experiences ..Connect with me on IG (@nicolepasveer)You're invited to join me virtually at the UNDONE retreat this January UNDONE begins January 13, I'm excited to announce that Julia is a guest facilitator and will be hosting a live workshop CLICK HERE for details and registration for UNDONE..MEET JULIA: Julia Albain is an energy alchemist and consciousness artist, a lover of humans and a passionate creator for new ways of thinking, living, and being. She works in channeled energy, integrative energy medicine, plant spirit herbalism, and more. She is the founder and creatrix of the Radical Healing Ecosystem, an online learning lab and playspace devoted to centering energetic perception and intuitive connection as a birthright and a way of life. You can learn more at www.radicalhealers.org and www.albainenergymedicine.com Julia's Map of Creation workshop can be purchased here.

You're listening to Rewild and Free. This is the go-to podcast for conscious and holistic entrepreneurs who are ditching society's to-do list for intentional living, freedom, and abundance. If we haven't met yet, I'm Nicole Pasvir. I'm an ex-nurse turned matrescence guide and business coach, leading women just like you into the new paradigm. Keep listening if you're ready to unsubscribe from patriarchal motherhood, bro-marketing, and boss babe culture. Because in this space, we use nature as our framework as we move towards feminine embodied business development, cyclical orientation, and slow living. Together, let's rewild and remember as we break free from survival and reconnect to what truly matters. Okay, friend, steep your tea and take the most

loving breath you've given to yourself today, and let's go. Okay, I have Julia in my Zoom room today, which I'm so excited about. Do you want to quickly introduce yourself? I will probably record something before this to be a little bit more formal and maybe professional, depending how I'm feeling. Let's hear from you first. my name is julia albane and i am i'm going to call myself an energy worker and an energy teacher although i've been playing with the labels lately of energy alchemist and consciousness artist i've been really liking that consciousness artist because i really do think of like energy work and consciousness work as creative work and play work and i think i used to call myself an energy healer, but now I think of it more from a

creative perspective. I think when we create, then healing happens. So that's my gig. Yeah. Oh my God. I'm already obsessed because, well, you and I have been working one-on-one together for almost three months now. I found you through Sam Garcia because I'm in her regenerative business creation lab and she brought you on as a guest workshop facilitator which was incredible and it was like love at first sight I was like oh my god I need Julia in my life and I kind of like tabled that for myself I was in the middle of at that time I think that was back in June and I was in the middle of a bit of a Instagram, social media sabbatical, and just taking some space off from my business. And I knew when I wanted to approach our work together, I wanted

to be coming across it through this like cleaner energy and really ready to move mountains which is what we've been doing um but it's so sweet to hear oh sorry go ahead but we'll probably talk over each other this entire episode because so you go it's so interesting hearing your perspective on it because i you followed me on instagram i didn't realize that it was from sam garcia you and you followed me on Instagram. I didn't realize that it was from Sam Garcia. And you followed me in a way that must have caught my eye because I get followers, right? You know, and especially after I do something in someone's new space, you're like, oh, there's some new people that have found me.

But I remember you followed me. I clicked on your thing. I was like, oh my gosh. I saw that you had a podcast and I messaged you. Yeah, you did. And I was just like, hey, I don't know what your deal is, but I really riff here. And so it's so funny hearing your perspective of it on the other side. Well, and it was funny to be on the receiving end of that email. Cause yeah, you approached me quite

professionally, like, Hey, like, thank you for the follow. I think we could really connect. I think I could offer some value on your podcast. And we, we, right, we just like brought all the tangible connections together in a beautiful email. And of course, I just wanted to back, I'm actually on sabbatical right now, when I'm back online, of course, but also, I want to work with you one on one. So let's just table this whole thing. And spoiler alert, you are going to be a guest facilitator or a co-facilitator I don't even know what I'm labeling you guys yet but you are going to be hosting a workshop inside my upcoming virtual retreat undone which I'm so excited about um yeah okay what was I gonna say I think I was gonna say how coming back to your introduction and the new labels you're kind of throwing on yourself around consciousness.

I think that's something that you and I have connected almost instantly on is this idea of like conscious creation and what that looks like, not just from like an entrepreneurial perspective, but really just like life in general and something that you've been riffing on online that I would love to explore deeper maybe in this conversation is around creation versus healing. Ah, yes. Yes. I, man, I'm pausing, I'm breathing, I'm letting, it's like sometimes I get the same so much energy come all at once I go yes yes you all get your time but you have to slow down because I'm just a human and we operate in words down here you know I think I'll dive into this through like the story of the moment where this started to shift for me which was probably maybe four or five years ago so probably halfway I've been doing energy work for about 10 years. First half was healing

because I came to it from healing. You know what I mean? So I was like healing, healing, we have to heal the world. Oh my gosh, there's so much pain. We've got to heal, heal, heal, which is great. And then I want to pause you for a second. Can we have more context on that kind of season and chapter of your life? I know in previous containers, I've heard you identify as a serial entrepreneur. And I know you've, you've done many things and you've had different lives, so to speak before what we're seeing now. So can you just share a little bit on that? Like what even got you to where you are now so that when we actually go into what you're about to riff on, it just makes a little bit more sense. Yeah, I love that. Yes. I am, I can acknowledge I

am, I have always been a serial entrepreneur. I've almost always worked for myself or been building businesses. I was an artist in my, I call it my first life. You know, I was an actor and a director and a producer and arguably successful, like through luck and talent and all kinds of circumstances had work pretty early out of college and worked in the arts through my 20s uh was a raging alcoholic right like I was there was something unexpressed even though I was having a lot of success in the field I was working in. Drink, drink, drink, drink, drink, drink, drink. You know, side mission story will tell one day. Basically, toward the end of my drinking, like the voice of God, you know, or whatever that means to me,

started poking me first in my dreams and eventually like in my waking world being like, hey, you have to stop drinking. You're going to die. You know what I mean? So that was what brought me to sobriety. Luckily, I got sober. It'll be 10 years in January. And so, yeah, thank you. Energy work came in the period where I was just trying to heal through sobriety.

So it wasn't a career pivot initially. I had stumbled into it truly accidentally, when I was in this period of healing, when I first been sober, it was like so raw, you know what I mean? And my body was wrecked. And I was just exploring all these new things to start to heal and repair. And I really just thought it was for that it was like it detoured my life and became my body of work. But I stumbled into energy work to heal myself so then when I was sharing it with others I was holding it from a healing perspective because that's what I'd experienced

knowing what you know about the body and alcoholism and just kind of leaning on substances as I'm going to just use the language of like numbing out and dissociating do you think the the culture of the industry you were in so acting producing all of that is that what got you there or looking back can you see that it was like everything before that too right your childhood your adolescence like whatever high school was like for you your upbringing like yeah I mean I can talk to the alcoholism or even addiction in general at so many layers like I think there was a biochemical level in me I think there's a biochemical predisposition in my family line I think there was a biochemical level in me. I think there's a biochemical predisposition in my family. I think there was a layer where alcohol was how I turned off the very powerful intuition that I had from the time I was a child. I had experiences from when I was very little that were very scary.

And so I shut that down. And then as I got older, that voice, that part of me that wanted to perceive and feel the energy and that could feel the energy, right. That could move into a party and stuff and didn't know what to do about that. So alcohol was a really quick off switch. So I also look to alcohol now with like a lot of kindness and compassion. It was the best tool I had. And then there was the industry layer, right? Where there was a dream that also was very empty inside, right? It was the nice shiny dream that I'd held for myself, that people had given to me, that I was theoretically living, but it wasn't feeding me, you know? So then I'm trying to fill that hole and be like, no, no, no, we can make this work. Like I'm living the dream. I have to

hold on to the dream you know but there's nothing at the center of it yeah I can totally resonate with like that that that emptiness in the center and really I mean I call it like following society's to-do list because in my story like that's what it looks like right it was following all of these like shiny things that the carrot in front of me that society kind of dangles like okay you you need to go get a degree after after high school and then you need to go get a secure and stable and respectful job blah blah blah blah blah right and I did all those things and then I I I married the guy we had the dogs in the house and the kid right all of those things and there is still that emptiness but

coming back to earlier years, when you again, this is obviously hindsight, right? You you can see it now. But that like strong intuition and those, I don't even know what language to use there. But like the the energetic, just being able to feeling the energy, right? I feel like that is something that is really, really scary when you don't know what that is. And don't know how to use it and you're just kind of taking on everyone's shit and I feel like all humans are intuitive and like we have been taught how to not trust our intuition and we've been taught to like disconnect from our bodies and again in my story this really shows up in

my pregnancy and birth experience. And that really was the portal and the catalyst for me to reconnect to myself and my intuition and kind of reclaim that power instead of fearing it. I actually remember like coming out of my unmedicated home birth, like shaken up by my power and thinking like, Oh my God, if I could do that, what else can I do? And I'm not saying that from like a physical, powerful experience of pushing a baby out. That's one part of it, but more of the intuitive, like the energetic, all of it. Right. And I've really been kind of spiraling deeper in a positive way with all of that in the past couple of years. And so, yeah, I just want to kind of come back to your share around intuition and energy

and like what that looks and feels like when you don't have language for it. Yeah. I mean, one, I have to say you give me there's like so many like side things that I want to talk about. I want to talk about this because there's a thing that I was shown up in my work with pregnancy and fertility that I started just like the body was just showing me where I was like, oh, the conscious creation. This is why we've had that like instant connection, right? Conscious creation is in everything that we do.

But like in a very physiological, but also mystical way, the pituitary in labor wants to like essentially kick off a psychedelic experience. Like labor, I think by design looks almost identical to an ayahuasca journey. And biochemically, there's evidence of that in the body as well. And there's been things I've been seeing on postpartum women where there's certain dysfunctions or things in the body. And through the systems I work with, all the patterns I'm seeing trace it back to the pituitary not getting to take us on the journey that it's designed to take us on so when I hear

this story about your unmedicated home birth and feeling the raw power of being like not just the power of wow I did that but the power of your biochemical system having taken you through a transformative journey that now literally the chemical makeup of your body and the consciousness of you is different oh full body chills listening to all of that and just thinking about the people that I know are probably listening to this and the fact that they get to nerd out on that juicy nugget of information you just shared like the people that are listening in my community right now are likely birth nerds of some sort and they they literally obsess over just the physio physiological like nature of birth and so understanding that like psychedelic and like energetic experience that's happening it just makes so much sense when we start to look at

now postpartum how there's all this like noise about like bounce back culture and like becoming who you were before and like all these things and like of course that's not possible because literally the chemistry inside of you has changed so drastically. And then when we think about all of the less desired things that are kind of happening collectively postpartum, right. Whether it's anxiety or depression or like hormone and nutrient depletion and all of the things that are kind of umbrellaed under that, it makes me start wondering, well, what's that pituitary gland doing? Well, and think in the most simple way. Think about those so many common birth practices where we have bright lights and we're- I don't want to. I don't like thinking about those things. People are coming in and out of the room. Now, not everyone listening may have had a psychedelic

experience, but if you've had a psychedelic experience, I want you to imagine being on psychedelics and then someone puts the fluorescent lights on and then there's strangers walking in and out of the room yeah and people touching your body without consent and threatening you with like fear-mongering strategies that your baby's gonna die if you don't make these decisions blah blah blah blah no one would say like that's a good trip that That's going to, you know, and in psychedelics, if you've worked with psychedelics, you realize the medicine wouldn't get to complete its process, right? Because it would be interrupted. So in the same thing with birth, when we have these conditions, sometimes as simple as sensory stuff, lights and noise that interrupts the pituitary on

its journey, it doesn't get to complete a process. And those are the patterns I'm tracking. And this is anecdotal data, but I really believe in my anecdotal data because it's the stories of bodies that I work with, right? And it's repeated stories that I'm seeing on bodies is things where from digestion all the way up to depression and anxiety is that pituitary did not complete a process through the birth. The good news about that though, is that we can do stuff postpartum to help the pituitary complete its cycle. So we don't have to shame the birth situation, right? Like sometimes we just, we have the birth we have, we end up in a hospital, the lights are on. But if we know that that's

what happened, then what can we do in postpartum to support the pituitary in completing its cycle? Yeah. Do you have a quick answer to that? Obviously, like it's not an overnight fix, but like in the sense of how your work weaves in through energy work and energy healing and creation, like what does that look like in practice? You know, in session work, there's, there's energetic stuff that we do often when I get postpartum women, it's all pituitary. So we're doing some energetic support in the pituitary. There's some herbal and, and, and food medicine stuff you can do also in a really simple way, any kind of visual based meditation works the pituitary because the pituitary is a very visual gland. So anything

we could do to then put ourselves in a room with nice lighting and light a candle and take ourselves through a visually guided meditation, or even just sit and drop into that kind of meditative space, we'll start to repair the pituitary and let it come. We don't have to, when the body's resourced, it will complete its cycles is what I understand. So we don't have to tell the pituitary to complete a process that it wants to complete. We just have to set it up with the right conditions to be able to do that.

Yeah. Oh, love all this. And of course my mind is going to like the lens of the nervous system and like okay yeah cool set me up with a candle and some like dark cozy lighting and hook me up with a dreamy juicy visualization to kind of meditate with and I'm just thinking about like what that's doing to my nervous system to also promote healing from a more like whole body holistic point of view right and just the connection of all of it. I love it.

And that the frequency attunement that nervous system work is doing energetically. Yes. Yes. Yes. I mean, that nervous system like weaves with all the other systems, you know, and we've given the nervous system a lot of attention, which I love, but also it is like concentric rings with all these other systems, right? Our nervous system and our endocrine system, which is the pituitary, our nervous system and our immune system, you know, which then I'm into the themes of consciousness in the body. So it's like the immune system is talking to me about boundaries, right? So your nervous system is talking to your boundary system and your nervous system is talking to your, your endocrine system to me is kind of your energy system. Our endocrine system maps to our chakra system. So now your nervous system's

talking to your energy system and how you digest life and become new in your consciousness. There's these like incredible poetry in the body and it doesn't actually take much to support it in playing out that organic poetry that it knows how to play out. Obsessed. Just obsessed. And I feel like this is stuff that we need to be talking about more. Like you said, it's great that the nervous system is becoming more buzzy or trendy, and it is great in the right circles the right circles but it is so much

bigger than that I feel like this is kind of a good segue to bring us back to what you were going to share about creation and healing and coming back to just like your your your trajectory to get there right so coming back to okay you've kind of just energy healing has found you quite organically and naturally. You didn't think that you were going to pursue it as a, a business endeavor. It was for you at first. Yeah. So then I, I just started getting, well, I will say I had done about two years of probably

a hundred or maybe a couple hundred client sessions totally for free in the beginning. Cause I just loved it. I didn't think it was going to be a career. So I really like had this time where I was cutting, kind of cutting my chops. I'm grateful for that time looking back. And then through, you know, I had a teacher who basically tricked me into taking money for a session. Like I had people around me that were like, could see, even though I couldn't see. And so the work just took me, I started getting client work. And then I, at some point must've said like, okay, I guess this is what we're doing.

So I had probably maybe three or four years of doing energy work from a healing perspective and was seeing wonderful healing happening and believed in healing. But I also noticed that I was getting quite sick and heavy with the work, right? Like holding everything from a healing perspective. And a lot of that was a maturity thing of just being new in this field. But I, like the more powerful work I did, the sicker I got, you know, and I, and, and the more depressed I got. And, and some of that I think was was it was spiraling me deeper into things in myself that I was ready to look at. But I remember this day where I had this aha, where I was like, if my identity is being a healer, then I rely on a

broken world to exist. You know what I mean? I know. I was like was like fuck if I am a healer then I need broken things in order to have an identity and that messed me up for a while I had to really grapple with that and I want to be clear like I'm not saying that that is true for everybody who identifies as a healer and I'm not saying that it's wrong to identify as a healer that's what hit in my soul is yeah I want to actually expand on that for a second before I lose my train of thought because I will lose this train of thought if I don't I'm sorry but I recently read the book The Reclaimed Woman by Kelly Brogan I don't know if you're familiar with her work at all but in it she talks about obviously like we're familiar

with like victim consciousness and that triangle the drama triangle of like victim, savior, blah, blah, blah, right? And she talks about how like activism in a way is us getting caught in this like savior complex, right? And so if there wasn't something to be an activist about, and it's also putting us in this like constant chronic fight response for our nervous system too. And so I just wanted to throw that in there because it is so true, right? When we get into these bodies of work, and I see this a lot in kind of the birth industry too, as doulas, we get caught in that savior mentality. And like you just shared, like if you're identifying as a healer, you're relying on a broken world. You're relying on people to need healing. Yeah. Yeah. And I really want to highlight the identifying part, right?

Like I was in the identity of a healer, right? Or being in the identity of an activist, right? I need messed up issues to stoke my identity, hold up my identity. And that'll poke you, right? Like that really hit in a way that I fought against for a while, but you know, there was something in me that knew it was true. And I think once again, my body was showing me that it was actually quite heavy to hold this mantle of healer because I was actually holding the mantle of a broken world. And through that had been a

series of experiences where the energy started showing me like, hey, we can this this energy stuff that you love so much that I just became obsessed with. Yes, it can heal. It also can create new things. And sometimes creating the new thing actually creates the healing. And it's really fun and playful. You know what I mean? And around that same time in 2018, my husband and I, in totally separate circumstances,

we actually may not, I think we'd met at that point, but we may not have even been dating at that point. In very different contexts, we both had these kind of visions. I was in a shamanic training. He was all, he was in a like shamanic retreat. And we had these visions of basic, his was like an archangel. Mine was, I forget what it was, where they were like, here's what's coming over the next few years. There's an old way dying, let it die. Go over here and just start creating the new thing. Don't try to fix this. Don't try to save

this. You know what I mean? Don't, don't get, let it do its thing. It's in a death process. Let it be in a death process. Just go over here and start making a new thing that is of service and the making will create healing, you know? And in a science perspective, it's interesting to think about that because we know now in the nervous system and in trauma work that people can be in the same trauma. And when one person feels like they are mobilized to act and do something in the trauma, it doesn't stay in their body. And when one person feels powerless inside the same event, they end up with trauma for decades. So there's something to be said for us in this time when we look around, and I think a lot of us can be immobilized by what's going on. And we're like, we got to fix it, we got to fix it, we got to fix it. I really got inspired by the idea

of like, I actually can go over here and just focus on what I can create that's new, that people get excited about. And I am moving my trauma through the act of creating. Like, you know, I have plenty that still needs to be healed. I have plenty of trauma I carry, I have plenty of trauma I witnessed through my work. But trying to tend to it as trauma got really heavy. Going over here and being like, I'm just making a new thing. I'm making and making and making and that making energy is offering me a lot of healing. Okay, so much is coming up for me. I'm trying to center myself. I feel like I heard you. I don't even remember when I first heard you share this, but like this very simple example of like when we're looking at healing in the body, like when you have an open wound, right? The healing happens from creating new tissue. And that is just such a perfect, simple, but perfect example of what you're talking about

here, right? It's not necessarily about fixing the old, it's, it's creating something new. And of course, my mind is now taking us into like entrepreneurship and kind of quote unquote, the new paradigm of business and what that can look like and and so many of us I think have this like I don't know this this this heaviness and this pressure and this like energy of like urgency to fight and dismantle and throw in whatever other kind of more harsh aggressive kind of label you want to throw there. And that is so energetically consuming and depleting. And when you kind of take me into the energy of like creation,

creation is playful. Creation is innocent. Creation is messy. I can even feel it in my body. Like there's just more expansion. There's less like pressure coming from behind there's there's this like limitless possibility right all of a sudden like the boxes that we've been living in no longer exist and it's not about necessarily like smashing the boxes it's just about like removing yourself from the box and creating a new space that doesn't have a box.

Yeah. Well, and, and I think it also takes a lot of personal responsibility. It challenges our personal responsibility because I notice it like, right. There's things that I see moving in, you know, the field, the industry, whether it's entrepreneurship or even the nervous system stuff for a while, I can get a little like sassy and I watch stuff that's moving and I'm like, and I watch how me talking against that or like doing my little finger wag at that. It gives me a little hit of something. There's an addiction of righteousness that I feel in my body. Mm hmm. But if I pause with it, the real responsible use of that energy is to be like, this is showing me something that I don't like to funnel my energy toward what I can't, what wants to be created.

And I think it's like a very powerful redirection when I go, I'm going to take responsibility. I'm going to bypass the candy of my righteousness, right? Like, ooh, yum, yum, candy tree. I could just feast on this righteousness, or I could channel all that power toward what I'm called to make, right? If I see something I don't like, there's something in me that's like, maybe you're the one that's supposed to go over here and introduce this other thing that you believe in. And I think that's really powerful. And I think it takes a lot of personal responsibility. And you really start to feel the addiction of righteousness and the addiction of fighting

against. It gives us a hit of something. And I have a lot of compassion for it, but I do think it's a distraction. Yeah, I can really relate to that in my own experience where I feel like as I've been kind of healing or unlearning or deconstructing good girl conditioning for lack of a better word let's just call it that as like an umbrella term it's kind of put me on this pendulum swing of finding myself in that seat of righteousness of like oh well I'm now better than you but in another way and I'm still trying to like perfect that new identity? And it shows up in really, really sneaky ways. And then that also

teeters me into, again, that like, savior complex, or even like, martyrdom, and all these other things where it's like, I'm better than you are like, I write whatever the story is that goes with that. And, ooh, it is, it is so sneaky. That's something that I have been increasing my awareness to. And of course, increasing my awareness allows me to kind of like disrupt that pattern and catch myself doing it. But the other piece of this that was coming to mind is, so when we're thinking of, like you mentioned, like if you actually harness that energy, you kind of like root into it and actually decide like, what is this actually illuminating for me in the sense of maybe creating something new? You talk about this, I think in your map of creation workshop, right? The root chakra stuff into just like how we need to, I don't even want to put language here I want you to explain this but right how there's kind of this collective wounding of our root where we can't even like root into safety of our our self-worth like this is where like worthiness wounds really start showing up right and how it like again I don't want to put language here I want you to

explain this but like where I want to take this is like how we start to like lead from desire and create new by healing the root center well you know the what we're what we're in a lot of in all definitely definitely in the United States culture, I would say Western culture, I would say cultures that are heavily influenced by what I like to call dominator systems. Dominator systems are patriarchy, white supremacy, colonization, right? Like the umbrella of dominator consciousness that has been flooding the globe. And I won't say that everywhere is impacted by it, but most of the globe has been touched

by it. And then there's places where it is the ocean we are in the United States, I think is like an epicenter of dominator culture, right? It's like, I'd say North law, Canada too, right? We are North sister. It's the, it's the water we swim in. Yes. We are an epicenter of it. We are a crux point of it inside of that, the thing that happens with the root center is that my, my worthiness to exist, the root says I have a right to exist because I'm here literally by the nature that because I'm here, I have a right to exist. Simple as that injury to the root center, or when we're working out that root center, we have to establish worthiness through

either proving ourselves or attaching ourselves to worthwhile ideals or tribes. And that's where tribalism comes in, right? I don't mean tribe in an indigenous sense. I mean, the idea of tribalism that says, my group is right, and your group is wrong. And so even in our really beautiful work we've been doing in the recent years to deconstruct, there's a lot of tribalism energy that's been present because it goes, I'm a very good white person and you're a bad white person. I read the good anti-racist book, right? I'm a good one. I deserve to exist because I did the very good white person thing right a lot of compassion for that but like we gotta look at that because it's still perpetuating a sense of some people deserve to exist and others don't and and there's you know in an

energy consciousness by anytime I look at someone and say they don't deserve to exist because of X, my body hears that and hears and feels me go, oh, some people deserve to exist and some people don't. So in a way, our judgment is an injury against the self constantly, right? We judge others and our body hears that language and goes, ooh, you can be judged. You have some people deserve to exist more than others. So yeah, did you want to say something? It's it's right. I don't say you keep going. You keep going. My mind is kind of taking me to the sneaky ways that that like, perceived sense of belonging shows up in our identities, right? The labels that we identity to. And I can think of really juicy examples

in the context of motherhood, right? Like identifying as a more like natural mom or throwing labors on yourself like crunchy, or I can see it in like the spiritual world too, like where I'm more spiritual than you or whatever it is, right? And we cling to those identities because there's that perceived sense of belonging.

And then we are measuring our sense of self-worth based off of how well we can fit in. Yeah. And like, we can have a lot of compassion for that. It's a thing we're working out, right? And that's what the Root Center is there to do is to help us process that and work that out until we land in a place where we have a fundamental sense of safety where you go I believe I'm fundamentally safe and I I fundamentally deserve to exist just because I'm here from that I want to I want to jump in here too because that fundamental fundamental belief of I have this right to exist right that? That I am simply because I am. It's like, once you start unpacking it, it's no wonder that this is like a collective trauma

or a collective wound. When we think about like the, just the societal conditioning, the water that we swim in, where we are, especially I think for those of us conditioned as like women and female and women's bodies right where we're told that we have to be pretty perfect and pleasing and there's this theme of like never being enough and that's literally from like almost day one yes yes yeah yeah well think about it I've been really cheering on this and oh my gosh i love talking to

you because our adhd brains are taking us on all these different pathways but i really feel like the people listening can like take in the whole i've been cheering on a lot the fact that like it it was in the 1980s when women could start their own businesses without male right and like take out like a bank i was born before in the United States, at least I don't know how it was in Canada and other parts of the world. In the United States, women could not get business loans without a male co-signer until 1987, 88. So I'm very literally the first generation of women who has that freedom. You what I mean and so when you talk about worthiness fundamentally as women and then you talk about worthiness in business there's very

practical coding that has told our bodies and also the bodies that we come from and the legacy of bodies that we come from that this is not for us so like that's where I like the compassion piece like yeah this is the work we are working the worthiness out not because something's wrong with us because everything that came before us told us we were not worthy told us that that was not true that you don't have the right to just exist yeah yeah well and then yeah smack in entrepreneurship smack in entrepreneurship, smack in motherhood, smack in neurodivergence, smack in whatever other flavor that like life looks like for you. And it just heightens and intensifies that.

Right. So the interesting, because you had asked this question originally from taking the root to the sacral and the interesting piece I'll bring in here within this, within the context of what you said is in this map of the chakra system. And, and I, I work with the chakra system really as like a map of a creative process and the map of how our energy body can move energy in that map. You know, we establish fundamental safety, right. To exist in the root. And then from that, the sacral is there to tune us to desire because desire is a creative impulse that is

guiding us towards something that is meant to be created through us and it it's the openness to just follow desire the example i give in that course is like if i'm a part of a village and my job is to climb a mountain every day and get water for the village and that that that's very rude right i get the water to survive i have a place in my community i climb the mountain every day to get the water and then one day i go mother i don't know if i'm allowed to curse am i allowed to curse in this okay i go i have to climb this mountain one more time i do not want to have to climb this fucking mountain. Now, if I shame that desire, something's wrong with me. No one else complains about their job, right? I've cut it off.

Yeah, I go, everyone else just does their job. Something must be wrong with me that I don't want to do my job. But if I get curious about that desire, that strong feeling, I don't want to climb the mountain. Maybe that curiosity leads me to an invention. And eventually we create a saqueous that bring the water from the town top of the mountain down to the villages i live in a place where we still work off a thousand year old a saqueous so someone said motherfucker i don't want to climb a mountain and they created a technology that served people for thousands of years that's the power of desire and it's a desire

that serves the community do you know what i mean so it's it's when you're talking about all these things the the bravery and the terror of breaking free of conditioning the limitations conditioning being a woman conditioning being a business owner conditioning of being neurodivergent but the willingness to be like something in my body, in my desire, in my energy is moving in a new direction. The willingness to follow that can be a creation that serves many people. Yeah. I mean, and this is exactly why I think I get so lit up every time I'm in conversation with you and why I'm so excited to have you as a guest collaborator inside the retreat, because this literally is what Undone the retreat is all about. Right. It's it's it's working on tending to that that collective wound at our root center. It's working at breaking free from those limitations and the conditioning and the stories that we've been attaching to ourselves around

labels and identities and expectations and shoulds and all of those things. And then it's also beginning to create space and safety for ourselves to actually like go after and name and claim our desires without like squashing them all in the same breath. Because I think for so many people, I would, let's just talk about women, like for so many women, it hasn't actually felt safe to go after those things, because we've been caught in stuck in cycles of survival, right? It literally hasn't been safe to want something different. Yes. And there's this thing I've been chewing on and it's something that's really still digesting because it was this pretty significant experience I had

about a year ago that I've been like digesting the awareness of, but I, I believe in a lot of individual bodies and I believe in a collective body and maybe even in a global sense, we're at this point where we've been stuck in survival but the only thing that will save us is shifting into thriving and the thing is when in survival nothing is telling you that it's safe to go into thriving so I've been really chewing on this thing of like we will actually have to kind of like jump over our own mechanisms to transition ourselves into survival into thriving and thriving is what will save us because a survival program that goes on for too long starts to self-destruct that's just yeah literally kill us literally it will kill us yeah and when you think of like when we're talking

about survival when we're talking about survival like this is this is perpetuated by those dominating cultures in the water we swim in and like hustle culture and like all of that right that's perpetuating this this surviving survival tendency that our nervous systems are stuck in totally and i i think i've been thinking about it in this way because i think sometimes people hear this and they they are waiting for thriving to show up and they don't realize that they are going to have to actually intentionally move themselves out of survival. Nothing in our bodies or our minds will tell us that it's safe to go over here. We are going to intentionally be like, I know,

but this is actually the only thing that will save us. Because I think about it in nature. Think about the brilliance of nature, that if an organism was in survival mode for too long, what that communicates to the body is this is not a hospitable environment. We're going to self-destruct because why would we stay in an inhospitable environment? So I'm starting to believe like that the end game of survival program is self-destruction, right? I mean, it's infinite wisdom. And we're in that part of a process, right? We're in a survival program that's that got stuck, and has been going for too long. And so we have to consciously shift ourselves out and say, I know, it doesn't look like it makes sense. I know,

it doesn't feel safe. But you have to come over here, because this is actually the only thing that will save us. Yeah, I was about to ask a question and you just, I think partially answered it. You said it doesn't make sense. And I think that is part of the key is like, we have to stop going after things that are logical, right? We have to start making borderline illogical, borderline delusional, borderline crazy decisions that are often like heart led and intuitive and impulsive and body based right and that that in itself is really uncomfortable and that in itself is a muscle that I feel like a lot of the collective is learning to flex because like

I said like we that that that connection to that part of ourself has been disconnected and we've been told and taught not to trust our gut. We've been told and taught not to trust our instinct. We've been told and taught that, well, I mean, in my story, like I've been praised for being logical. I've been praised for having a good head on my shoulders and for thinking things through and for being thoughtful and considerate. And obviously those are beautiful qualities to have but underneath all that it's it's disconnecting me from my body's innate wisdom what my question was from there though is like with the people that you work with and the humans in your community and the humans you've worked with, like what's that teetering point that actually gets us into making those illogical decisions and doing those things that don't feel safe to our nervous

systems to actually move into thriving? Yeah. You know, as you were talking, I was thinking in like the most fundamental way, like the, like a really practical way I've seen this shift in my own life is that right. Puzzle culture, even in business, here's my to-do list. Here's my things I'm going to do to my body, to my mind, to my thing all day long. And I'm going to bully myself through, you know what I mean? And then there was this big process of self-extraction, constant self-extraction, right? That's the only way I'm going to be successful or survive. And I feel like once you start seeing that, you can't unsee it. So really opening your eyes up to when you're in moments and cycles of self-extraction. Totally.

In the beginning, I think it's aware sometimes for a lot of us, our body just gives out. Our body just goes, sorry, we can't do that. Totally. There the beginning, I think it's aware sometimes for a lot of us, our body just gives out. Our body just goes, sorry, we can't do that. I also see it in a lot of, I mean, I think that was part of when I spoke to a period of my energy work where I was getting really sick was also my body essentially teaching me that we weren't going to do the old thing anymore, even though I didn't have the new one. But a couple of years ago, I started really doing a deconstructing even around my idea of how I can run myself and my day-to-day, right? So let's say I have a to-do list for my business. The experiment I ran was I have my to-do list

and then I go to start. And if I show up to do a task and there's any resistance, the old mode would have been like, just push through. There's any resistance, I go, this task is not supposed to get done right now. don't know when it's going to get done but I'm going to step back and in the beginning that's terrifying because you have no evidence that it's going to get done you're like I have to get this done but I just would run the experiment of being like if I feel resistance it's not for this moment and I'd almost kind of offer it up to the energy and be

like bring this back around when there's the right momentum to get it done and it's scary but you start with low stakes things and then what I started noticing was when I didn't push through my energy would take me to something else that I would get done really fast and then the task would come back around and I'd get it done really fast and then I'd get another task done and suddenly I was like I did four things in the time that it used to take me to do one thing. Cause I was trying to muscle through. Cause I wasn't listening to the flow, the flow of my body, the flow of the energy. And like my whole life is so much more efficient. I do so much. I have such a bigger business. I do so many more projects. I work a fraction of

the hours I used to work. I sometimes look back, I go, I literally don't know what I was doing years ago that had me so busy because I was getting nothing done because I was wasting so much energy pushing through, pushing through, pushing through. And so like that to me is like one of the most practical examples of like how much wiser it is to actually move from an intuitive flow and the practice of it, right? You might start with the practice of being like, okay, it's really scary. I told myself I was going to do this to-do list, but I have a lot of resistance to it. I'm going to not do that today and just trust that it'll come back around. And like moment by moment, practice by practice, we build a new trust in a different flow that

frankly we aren't in control of. And that's the part of it that I think is like, we've lived in a lot of control and our culture has taught us to be in a lot of control and moving into a more intuitive somatic flow puts you back in relationship with the universe or the cosmos or whatever you want to call it. You're not in control. And it takes a surrendering is required and surrendering is unfamiliar, therefore unsafe to our nervous system. Yes. Yes. Yeah. So I think to answer the question of how

I would say with a lot of people I work with and within myself, it's like small, starting in the small chunks. So I think we talked the other day, I was like, I'm a big believer that trust we throw around this word trust trust is built through repetition like trust is built through repetitive moments that give us evidence that we can trust in this thing you know what I mean the first couple feel like a risk then we build a little bit more security right and so it could be testing it out in small ways that feel like they don't have such a huge cost to them I said I was going to do my to-do list. I'm going to let it go for today. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I set, I set that big goal for myself, but it just feels like I'm pushing. I'm going to try letting go and letting a different

flow, show me some new information. And like, you know, I like to think of running experiments in our life. It's like run some experiments, do some test rounds, try it out, get a little lap going that builds some data. Well, and each of those experiments is ultimately widening that window of tolerance, that resiliency, that flexibility for our nervous system to start handling that feeling of not having control, that feeling of surrendering, that feeling of surrendering that feeling of like I'm actually not going to do what's on my to-do list today and hold myself through it because I know there's not actually a bear coming to attack me even though my body can't feel the difference right because a threat is a threat and when I was micro experiments build that the capacity up

and what I want to add to that is like it also starts to allow the range of activation to actually be useful in its right ways so there may still be activation but now the activation is is giving its right communications like activation is meant to right right yeah you know like I've talked to people before who are like well in doing that there's a lot of fear because I have all these things built up in my life that were reliant on me pushing through and interesting. And what unfolds then is the person goes, I actually need to do some rearranging of my whole life to allow me to move at my body's pace, which is scary, incredibly liberating. And it can go

piece by piece. People think they're going to have to blow up their whole life. You're not going to have to blow up your whole life, but sometimes those experiments open up really tangible evidence of like, wow, I've committed myself and my energy to all these things that aren't doing anything for my life. They're not that interesting. I just haven't bothered to do inventory and clean house, you know? And the activation was there to show you actually there's some house cleaning that needs to happen. Yeah. I also want to weave in how, at least from my own experience, like the quickness that I think I was as I was beginning to kind of move into some of the stuff we're talking about, like the quickness I was to gaslight myself and to, I don't even know, just like

feel crazy, right? Like I think you were sharing in the example of the person that doesn't want to go get water anymore. Like the quick impulse thought is like, well, what's wrong with me? Why isn't anyone else complaining about this? And so for me learning to kind of have more compassion for my, my body and the pace of my nervous system and the pace of like my humanness really led me to lean on to things like connecting with my menstrual cycle and being able to offer myself more compassion and acceptance and trust through the ebb and flow of that cyclical, that cyclical nature, right? Because my whole life, I haven't led life cyclically. So that

was a big part for me. And then I'd also say like the modality of human design and just understanding more of that has also offered this big dose of compassion and then also uncovering my own neurodivergence. like you said, like this shows up in so many aspects of your life. And so we're not going to blow everything up at once, but we're going to pick and pull at different pieces and allow these threads to slowly be pulled on and slowly like release the knots. Yeah. But think about that phrase you just said, you're like, why isn't anyone else complaining about this? And like, when you said that, what I heard in that is like imagine how many other people are silently suffering I was and when you just said that it's a cycle of silence right right one person to stand out and be like this sucks does anyone else think we need to widen the permission field to complain like because that complaint that frustration we but we all we just yeah we all hate this because like what if we did it different what if we created my obsession going into 2025 is now mapping

my the energetic stuff on just systems and industries and all these things because they start to look at the world and we're in such a phase where everyone looks at every system you go yeah that one sucks and you're like okay, but we just keep doing it. Do we want to try changing it? Like we're such crazy beings. Like we have, I mean, I have a lot of, I'm in love with humanity. You know, I think humans are incredible. I think we have unbelievable creative, just genius in us.

And these amazing creations come through humans we have all this brilliance and then we just keep going through our little motions and we all go like yeah that system sucks yeah that system sucks yeah we hate having to do that better keep going and i'm just excited for an era of being like okay everyone pause this sucks right all right let's make not suck because we're really brilliant let's combine our energy to create change keyword create and get free you know what i mean i think that's where it comes back to my vision of like people just going over here and being like we're just gonna make a new thing right we're just not gonna bother fighting this thing that we don't like let's just go over here and be like you know i invented a new way of schooling our kids do you like that do you want your kid to do that too let's just do

that and we don't have to take down the whole system we can just go over here and make a new thing and play around with imagining what could be rather than just silently suffering in the things that and and maybe that helps people to be like if you're feeling this imagine how many other people are silently suffering and what would it be the one person to step out and go I don't want to do this anymore I think there's a better way I don't know it yet but I think that there's probably a better way yeah also holding so much compassion for those in that cycle of silence right because coming back to the conversation around sense of belonging and and tribalism and being in kind of community it feels really unsafe to speak out right because speaking

out puts you on the fringe it makes you an outlier yeah yeah yeah I mean I think that's but it takes me back into this thing we were talking about with survival. I think that we are in an era where people will, in a somatic sense, will have to risk death in order to move us into new, like it will feel like risking death, stepping out. And yeah. So what's coming to mind, like in, in, in business creation and in entrepreneurship and in marketing it's like risk being canceled right cancel culture is is the death burning at the stake right like what are you what are you willing to be burned for what are you willing to lose followers for what are you willing to write whatever fill in the blank there that the risk. I was saying this with someone else I was talking

to my very first energy teacher. She had this phrase where she said, it's not a true initiation. If you know, you will survive it. It's not a true initiation. If you know, you will survive it. So these moments where we're like, I don't think I will survive this. There is an initiation opportunity in those moments, if we will pass through, you know, and I believe there's older cultures that knew how to frame life through ritual and initiation. So it was actually very normal to understand that you were going to have to go through, you were going to have to face off with death multiple times in your life to let the next expression of you come forward. And we've just gotten lost from that.

And but we could bring that back in, right? We can have these moments where you just go, OK, I don't know if I will survive this, but that means it's an initiation and some new part of me is trying to step forward into expression. Yeah. And bringing this back to like pregnancy and birth, I'm just thinking about those in my community that are part of the free birth world and not even free birth but just birth in in more day to day life and entrepreneurship and and healing and personal development and all of that. Like that can look like ego death. That can look like like identity loss. Like I don't think that's the right word but like breaking up with an old identity right like like

unmasking shedding an old skin that no longer fits right that is all death and when we think about creation and cycles of creation we know that things have to die right and this is kind of the problem with society and culture like North American culture is like there's this there's this aversion to to that part of the cycle the death cycle and there's this, there's this aversion to, to that part of the cycle, the death cycle. And there's this fear around rebirth. Yeah. I mean, I've been thinking about, I've been chewing on this exact thing in energetics because in one of the energy trainings I teach, we talk a lot about the dynamics of literally how energy moves in and out of form. And I had this experience about a year ago where they're

an energy experience where they were like, there is infinite abundance. And my brain went, prove it. Show me how that's possible. That's not possible, right? Show me how it's possible. But over the year that I've been digesting this, what the energy was showing was like, there's infinite abundance because energy is moving in and out of form. But when you grab on to one form, when you hold on to something past its form. But when you grab onto one form, when you hold onto something past its death point, when you will not let go of the outdated identity and the outdated belief system and the outdated way of being, or the outdated societal structure, that is a literal construct of energy. You're hoarding energy. And so now it can't circulate

and come back around to you in that abundance and it was an interesting reframing of abundance that's I think sometimes we think of it as this ever outward expansion versus this ever cycling force and we actually hold up that possibility by hanging on to things that have served their time it has to die and alchemize so it can come back around as energy the most like tangible example that's coming to mind right now is like money, right? Like when we view money as this energy, look at all the people that are hoarding money and clinging on to money and aren't feeling safe to let money go, right? They're not like, so the death cycle of money is that

release and letting it move right move through the world I didn't explain that very well but that's that's kind of the piece that I'm chewing on right now is like how does that look in the energetics of money and again like where that shows, coming back to the very real reality that we basically are the first generations as women to get to have businesses and have business loans. And there's this very unfamiliar, I guess it's an energy, an unfamiliar energy with what it's even like to have a sense of control over money right yeah yeah and like what that looks like in in the sense of managing money and charging quote-unquote our worth and investing in ourselves and all of the different facets that shows up in in business creation I didn't say I've been playing with this thing with myself lately of being like, what if it's not that I haven't felt worthy of having the whatever the scaling of business that I'm desiring? What if a part of me knows that I'm not going to steward millions of dollars the way I've seen male business owners steward millions of dollars? And I have to catch up with that

understanding. And I'm wondering about that for all these women entrepreneurs, like what if it's not a worthiness thing? What if our bodies know that when we get millions, they're going to move and be stewarded in a very different way than the models of business we've seen from men over the past centuries. And we kind of have to like see that and get our bodies caught up and be like, oh, we, the, when we are going to move money in a very different way than the models of business we've seen. Yeah. Yeah. I'm already seeing it. I'm seeing it. Like I have some clients and colleagues who are, who do mega business, but it looks so different than the model of male business we've seen the way they steward money, the way the money moves, the way it reinvests into different places, the structures of business and how they create are just so different under a female gaze. And I think that's super exciting.

And I think there's, we're in an era of women catching up and being like, we don't have a, we don't have a history of what it will look like moving to our hands. So as the first generation it's going to feel a little clunky but maybe we just have to accept that and be like it's you can't there's nothing to look for out here as a model we have to kind of like trust our soma to move it intuitively and it isn't going to look like what we've seen yeah well and I think this kind of explains why I'm speaking for myself and like other people in my community where there's been, sometimes it's hard to actually name the desire of wanting money. And like you named it, right?

We kind of tend to think that it's a worthiness thing, but really it's because it's not money that we want, right? It's not that we're actually trying to have these ginormous bank accounts. It's because of what money can do and what we can do with money. And that's why we're hearing this more and more in the money mindset, energetic of money kind of conversations where we're manifesting money, right? It's not about how much money. It's about what are you going to do with that money? And I think that that's easier to digest, that's easier to chew. And yeah, I think you really did just name it.

Yeah, I just think it's a new frontier, and an exciting frontier. But it also like I often remind myself, I'm like, don't look for the model of it outside of yourself, it probably doesn't exist. Right? And if there's things that are going to keep, can you repeat that? And like, also name it for like every other aspect, right? This is, you know, look for it. Don't look for an example or really like a permission slip outside of myself to do it. Like it is going to come through my soma. There will be inspiration that reinforces that or refines that. But every time I've been like, I don't have a model of this thing, but I'm going to do it the way I feel impulsive to do it. It just works.

It works better. You know what I mean? Every time I've tried to model my business practices, even down to the really granular off of what others are doing or what I think I'm supposed to do, it always ends up feeling really chunky and clunky. Yeah, this is unrelated, but also completely related. I've been just feeling a lot of tension and resistance in trying to give language to a framework of some sort that I want to walk the women through in my retreat.

And I've kind of realized that it's because there is no framework right I'm trying to I'm trying again I'm trying to follow all the other frameworks we see outside of us and like the business industry that oh like you need to have this like three-step framework to offer your people and it's like that's just bullshit and garbage and I know that but there was a sneaky part of me that wanted that because it's all I've seen and that's how I see like it I think where where my mind was taking it is like I need this in order to offer the transparency on my sales page for people to feel safe and invest in because there's a part of me that feels like if I'm not giving enough information, if I'm not telling them exactly what I'm going to walk them through and give them those

empty promises, then they're not going to feel safe buying. And it's so gross that that's what I'm moving through right now. And also so beautiful that I'm moving through it because that's the thing is like, there is no framework I can give you the framework is created by you but what is really beautiful is getting to be in a container whether it's mine or someone else's is there's the aspect of co-regulation with the other members of that community who get to then be sources of inspiration sources of like validation and cheerleading and solidarity solidarity and also like believing mirrors. Like you're not crazy. There isn't something wrong with you for wanting that.

Go. I'm cheering you on. I got your back. That's why we have to do these things in community. Yeah. And like it really is an era of, I mean, in business and just culture in general, we've been in a very linear transactional time. So when we start to move into these much more nonlinear, relational, multidimensional ways of moving, you know, you're like the systems don't communicate with each other well, right? You're like, even that you're like, what am I paying you for?

You know, I grapple with this in my nine month program because most people get it. Can I speak on that for a second? I'm signed up for Julia's nine month program because most people i wonder can i speak on that for a second i'm signed up for julia's nine month program i have no freaking clue what i've signed up for i have no fucking idea i just know that it's for me and i even she has three different pathways for it i said julia which one is for me she told me and i handed her the money like and for most people it doesn't become that and it but it's taken me that we're going to our fifth year it's taking me five years to trust that the essence pulls for the right people and then some people come they're like but what am I getting and I used to try to tell them and this was the first year I

had a couple people who were like but what do I get and for the first time I was like this might actually not be the space for you and not in a a judgmental way. I went, we might not be ready. Like, I know the tools I bring in. I trust the work that transpires. I trust the container more than anything. Not myself. I trust the container that has been created by me, but also everyone that's been in the space for four years.

And I've had the same thing as you. I always map out a curriculum for every class, which is a lot of classes. And the energy is like, literally, I feel the energy laughing at me when I'm mapping it out, but my little brain needs it to be like, we're going to do this. And then I get in front of people and I'm listening to what's happening and I'm weaving what's happening and something way more powerful and way more beautiful happens. You know what I mean? I've even gotten into the place of like, when I'm leading these drop-in meditations, I might plan a meditation I'm going to lead. And then I get in and I get a little poke to do something.

And I do that. And then we come back out and someone goes, he's crying. They're like, oh my gosh, I've been grappling with this image all week. And then you named it in the meditation. And what I've realized is like, when I practice listening, just like listening to a field of gathering and working with what's there, we actually get really intimate, really transformative experience. I could never plan that kind of stuff, right?

And so if I was just so obsessed with sticking to my script of like, well, this is what I told you we'd do. And this is the script of what, you know, an energy class is. I, we'd miss it. We'd miss so much richness that's in, and you've talked about this so much in your space. It's like, it's about the relational field. It's like, we get a room of people together. And because all these bodies are together, something bigger than all of us moves. And then we all get to receive from it. I learn from my, from those trainings more than anything. I tell people all the time, I was like, it's the biggest,

I'm a genius. Like I'm a genius. I created a program that I get to show up and everyone is my teacher and we're learning together. And I just so believe in that way of working now, even though it's not what anything in our culture has shown us. Yeah. Well, and again, coming back to this idea of extraction, like this is the complete opposite. And that in itself is unfamiliar because yeah, it's never been modeled. All we know is an extractive way of living in an extractive way of building a business in an extractive way of facilitating spaces. And what was coming up as you were sharing all that is just, again, holding space and compassion for the amount of self-trust that is needed as a facilitator in that kind of space, right?

To be able to trust yourself and trust the energy of the container and the energy of like that entity in the business, like seeing that that is like outside of you. And we've talked about this in our sessions too, right? Kind of creating that separation between you and your business so that you actually get to just,

there's that reciprocal exchange between you and your business. So it's not just you extracting and giving to your business. But what I'm saying with that is like, there's a level of self-trust that's needed to be able to show up and say, you know what? I'm actually not going to follow the script here, I'm going to allow that little ping to bring me over here. And I have loads of evidence that for that, for like, with

that for myself to like thinking back to my mastermind last year, where, yeah, I had this kind of curriculum laid out. And then once the women were inside, I'm like, Oh, wait, this isn't actually for you I just needed that to kind of move forward with this creation process but I trust myself so deeply and I trust the energy of this container I trust the energy of this this collective in this container that like intuitively I will just know how to respond and that yeah that that takes again coming back to this idea of like tiny experiments it takes tiny experiments to practice and play to build that muscle of self-trust and that I think that's like the real big thing is like it the trust has to

come through action actually we have to practice right and so one of? One of my favorite sayings is like, you can't learn to ride a bike by thinking about riding a bike, right? The only way to ride a bike is to go ride a bike. And you can't learn to ride a bike by listening to other people telling you how they ride their bike. You have to get on the bike.

And you have to let yourself fall. I know how to ride a bike. I know how to ride a bike. Like whenever I see a mom, that's I trust myself I trust myself yeah I mean that is a fine thing to motivate you to act and to practice acts of self-trust but it's the practicing of acts of self-trust which will be messy right like you've brought in so many times it's that that builds the actual fabric of of like internal containment that we look for yeah what's coming up too is this essence of vulnerability and how vulnerability hasn't felt safe so coming back to safety and sense of belonging like it hasn't been

safe in past generations to be vulnerable that literally would have meant life or death right and so just kind of orienting to the fact that like it's 2024 maybe 2025 depending on when you're listening to this like vulnerability is actually your superpower now and again being in community with other people to inspire and validate and amplify that vulnerability for you I think is literally where the magic can happen yeah yeah yeah okay I'm watching time so I feel like we need to try wrapping up there's one thread that I want to come back to just because it's been juicy and alive in our sessions and you sort of brought it up, but not really. You were talking about resistance and talking about how like part of being able to teeter from survival

into thriving is really feeling into when there's resistance and kind of allowing yourself to, the example was like not do something on your to to do list or whatever it is, right? Following that resistance and letting it be communication to you. What's been showing up for me, and you shared this in your stories earlier this week is like, when resistance and limiting beliefs can actually become the limiting belief. believe and where I've almost found myself looking for resistance because I have flexed that muscle so much that's how you're like you named it that is exactly how I kind of teetered from this mode of survival into this mode of thriving is being able to learn oh wait this is what resistance feels like in my body this isn't for me but now I'm realizing I'm at this place or I should say I was because I feel like there was a breakthrough for me this week, but I was in this place where I was searching for resistance. I was searching for those limits. I was almost obsessed and addicted to those little hurdles because I knew that there was a breakthrough on the other side. And so everything I was doing, I was looking

for resistance. Do you want to speak enough on that for a second? You know, on an energetic level, you start to create it, right? Yeah, that's totally the good news about that. I think that that is an indication when we have made a pretty tremendous shift from survival into thriving, when we find ourselves making up problems. So even just the awareness of that being like, interesting, I'm starting to kind of self-generate here. That means there's a lot of creative capacity available and it needs help being channeled into new ways. So like a big one, I found that in myself a few years ago. And what I realized was like resistance can serve as a friction to mobilize energy. So for parts of our journey, the identifying the resistance, it's a boundary, it's a containment to butt up against, to move our energy in a new direction to help motivate

the movement of energy. So it's not inherently bad, we use it for a while. And then we can kind of grow out of it where we either don't need as much resistance, or we can self-direct the energy into proactive creativity rather than reactive creativity. And so like for me, a big one years ago, I was like, realized, I was like, wow, I will create a little momentary chaos in my life just to give me a little bit of friction, right? Yeah. Yeah. Because life is starting to get a little spacious. And I was like, okay, let's create these little chaoses. And then I was able to identify that. And I was like, that doesn't feel fun. So I need to give myself hobbies or tasks that feel challenging, that for me, it has to be unrelated to my business. It has to be like, I pick up these random hobbies, usually about once a quarter that are technically

challenging, that have no real, I don't need anything from it, but it challenges me. And it like works that muscle of frustration, but in a productive, creative way. And what I find is when I channel the, the addiction of resistance into a productive place, then it fuels my business in other ways. So like mine right now, it's so silly. I've been teaching myself to do gel manicures at home because it's very hard it's like very hard people it's very detailed I'm totally unqualified and equipped it's this random hobby that gives me that frustration friction energy and I work that out and it usually gives me some aha over here in my business so like I think that the when we realize that we're making up resistance is a moment to go, I actually have an excess of creative capacity that needs to be of like a tangible example. So this like makes sense for people listening. I'm trying to think of like what was actually showing up for me like this week and last week. And feel free to like reflect something back to me because you've witnessed it all. But like you named it, right? It's almost like this self-created chaos. And I also want to name how like from a nervous system perspective, of course, right? Because if that's what our baseline frequency has been attuned to, we are going to create that for ourselves really real, like stories of like, I don't have time for this or having indecision around picking a call day and time for a workshop or a circle,

right? That's probably what you were going to be thinking of, right? Because that showed up for me this week. And it's like, is that real? Like, no, it's not real. Like I am just creating, like you said, this like moment of friction for myself because there's an addiction to that chaos. So I love the invitation to kind of transmute that into things that I don't want to say they don't matter, but right. Not, not like business-y things, not, not life-related things like nails or a new craft, a new hobby.

Can I walk you through an experiment real quick with this? Yeah, let's do it. Yeah. I love that idea yeah yeah so so we're gonna lay this out you you picked the day for your women's circle great yeah you were able to put an image up in two minutes great it sells out in a couple days great a bunch of those people roll over into your program and your program is sold out great like just out of an experiment let's say that literally in the next 48 hours your thing was scheduled it was sold and a bunch of people filled your your program how does your body feel it's like you're done i mean like there's nothing left to

do yeah yeah well and it brings me back to the conversation where we were saying like you identifying as a healer only works if you have a fucked up society to heal so my mind says well if I've if I've arrived if I've completed my agenda then what's next and there's this there's this craving for more so right the the so right you probably felt it in your body that like the thing that you say you want you're like yeah I want I want my women's circle to be full and I want my program to be full if I said it's already done we did it it's done you probably notice in your body you're like oh fuck right or maybe there's clenching because actually we go well what will I do now with all that yeah what do I what am I going to do just like read a book for the next two weeks what would

you is that is the underlying thing happening beneath that this like discomfort or this inability to sit with the the feeling of like emptiness and calm and stillness yeah I believe it is I think we're titrating the nervous system to feel safer and more and more ease and stillness I also think it starts to hit a place where we awaken to circle the whole podcast around where we start to awaken more of our deep creator self right because if I don't have to spend the next month filling my program if it's already full and I have a whole month I have space to create more what am I going to do next well is there a book I could write is there a hobby I want to pick up yeah there's actually space to become these more prolific creative beings but that's very scary at

the beginning I feel like from the outside someone might be like well isn't that just like hustle and isn't that like this obsession with productivity and no the answer is no because it's it's coming yeah it's coming from a much deeper place and it's not coming from this like societal expectation or obligation but what also what also is coming to mind is like women, biologically, physiologically, like we are this vessel of creation and we are supposed to like empty and fill, empty and fill. And we truly are like bottomless pits in the sense of creation. So of course we're supposed to fill that space. There is never going to be that fulfillment because we're supposed to go create something else. I actually think what really stops up a lot, what is a real hitch in the like deconditioning from hustle culture is people here, and especially women here, that the opposite of hustle will be just resting, resting all the time.

And they go like, that doesn't sound nice either. And it won't. We're not designed to rule us. We're designed to be in creative, easeful, like lush flow. You know, I'm about to go into what I call my semi-sabbatical season from January to March is my semi-sabbatical. Cause I teach from March to December. So from January, and it's taken me five years to design this schedule for my life. I January to March, I shrink my client availability. I'm not teaching. It's my creative portal. I read, I write, I study. I have a lot of space.

Your nails. My nails. I pick up weird hobbies. Last year it was like bread. You know, I pick up weird hobbies. It is like my most treasured time. It fills me for the year. my work becomes so much more prolific because I fill up and I'm not doing nothing it's a very full season but it's full in a pace that gets to follow my curiosity so it becomes very easeful and whimsical and curious and creative in that and that's what we're talking about when we decondition from the hustle culture, it will be full. And that's even what we're talking about. If you could make every if all if you could release all of the unnecessary obstacles you create for yourself. And you could whether it's Nicole's program, or my program or anyone who's listening, their business, their big business goal that you're like, this is going to take me years to achieve. If I said it'll be done in a week, watch what your body does. And if your body goes, fuck, that's your space. That's the space that's calling your work is to just get comfortable with that much ease so that it opens up that much space for more creation.

And creation just for creation's sake. Yeah. Just because it's fun and interesting and pleasurable. Yeah. Keyword. Yeah. Pleasurable, right? creation's sake yeah just because it's fun and interesting and pleasurable yeah keyword yeah pleasurable right going like literally giving yourself the permission to seek and feel pleasure I think is a big part that we haven't even touched on but it's also encompassing this whole conversation final note reiterating the difference between hustle and like non-hustle. Hustle is linear and it's like this upwards trajectory versus like what we're talking

about is cyclical. And like you named it as these waves. I more see it as these like true circles, cycles. And we've talked about, right, we've talked about the need for death and the need for rest and the need for still stillness and all of that so well I guess this is your this is your home to imagine that all the things that you think you need to get done in your business are already done and then to just watch what your body does that's fun I'm gonna do it too actually I'm gonna do that I'm gonna I'm gonna imagine that all the like points that I am thinking I want to hit in my own business over the next few

months it's already happened it's done yeah what what would I do then yeah one prompt that I've been playing with is like again an extension of what you're saying like if success is inevitable and if all the things that you're calling in have already happened, like how would you breathe? And that really orients my body to just, yeah, it just like allows it to be this somatic visceral experience because my entire body recalibrates to this softening, right? How would you breathe? How would you breathe? would you breathe that's so beautiful thank you so much this is so good are you feeling complete any final notes that was good it's already done how would you breathe

it was already done how would you breathe if you weren't in survival anymore how would you breathe just to kind of close out where can people find? What kind of really cool things are you doing on the internet? Yes, radicalhealers.org is the mega ecosystem online space. And we are enrolling for our big nine month program that starts in March of 2025. But there's also a bunch of self paced offerings if you kind of got a go in. So there's a lot of ways to learn and play in there and it really is energy work for creation and for a new way of being a new way of living and then I do do one-on-one work although that has shrink is shrinking quite a bit but albaneenergymedicine.com if you want to look at one-on-one work radicalhealers.org albaneenergymedicine.com love it and we kind of touched on the map of creation

workshop so maybe i'll link that too because that's a really easy digestible thing to kind of start with if people want to dive into your world and then of course join us inside the undone retreat because julia is going to be a guest workshop facilitator so yes beautiful thank you julia thank you so much