REWILD + FREE - IGNITE YOUR INNER HEART FLAME, FROM CREATIVE DESERT TO UNAPOLOGETIC MAGNETISM WITH SOMATIC & SEXUALITY COACH WHITNEY ULLOM (66)

Episode Date: January 2, 2025

In this episode, I had the pleasure of meeting Whitney, a Sex, Love, and Relationship coach with a rich background in somatic trauma resolution work, theatre, and performing art. Our conversation circles around Spirituality, Healing, and Creative FireWe dive deep into the concept of a "spiritual drought" and the creative desert many women experience after decades of "following society's to-do list". Whitney shares her own journey and the significant role of sexuality in personal and spiritual transformation. We touch on the importance of pleasure, self-love, and the powerful impact of acknowledging and expressing repressed emotions. Throughout the episode, we discuss the intersection of business, motherhood, and the vital need to tap into one's creative fire, emphasizing the importance of nurturing the soul to achieve holistic well-being.. .MEET WHITNEY: Whitney Ullom is a somatic sexuality coach, trauma resolution practitioner, and artist. Her work centers around the female body and soul, supporting women in healing from trauma, stepping into their power and agency, and awakening to their pleasure and creative genius.She works 1:1 with both women and couples, facilitates group journeys, and leads in-person retreats.Her latest program, Creative Fire starts January 9th.Website: www.whitneyullom.comConnect with Whitney on IG (@whitneyullom) ..Whitney is also going to be a guest workshop facilitator at the UNDONE retreat, doors closing Jan 8 Connect with Nicole on IG (@nicolepasveer). . 00:00 Introduction: The Spiritual Desert00:19 Meet Nicole Pasveer01:07 Guest Introduction: Whitney's Journey01:44 Whitney's Story: From Acting to Awakening05:21 The Turning Point: A Psychic's Revelation08:53 Rediscovering Intimacy: The Epic Lovers Class11:33 Nicole's Parallel Journey: Societal Expectations vs. True Fulfillment16:31 The Soul's Hunger: Addressing Spiritual and Emotional Needs20:04 Entrepreneurship: From Personal Transformation to Business24:43 The Ripple Effect: How Self-Love Transforms All Aspects of Life32:17 Creative Fire: Igniting Passion and Purpose41:56 Embracing Inner Wisdom42:28 Navigating Trauma Responses43:20 Expressing Boundaries and Needs43:43 The Power of Somatic Work44:52 Healthy Boundaries vs. Misconceptions47:41 Purposeful Communication in Business48:30 Heart-Centered Entrepreneurship51:58 The Importance of Self-Resourcing57:54 Unlearning and Reclaiming Needs01:06:56 The Role of Anger in Healing01:10:45 The Value of Activation in Coaching01:17:02 Integrating Fire and Softness01:19:43 Conclusion and Offerings. .

you look around and you're like, why do I feel empty inside? There's like a spiritual aridity, like a spiritual desert that's happening. And yeah, most women come in, they're like, how can you help me? It must be my nervous system. It must be trauma. It must be this. And of course those are all related, but it's like their soul is hungry. You're listening to Rewild and Free. This is the go-to podcast for conscious and holistic entrepreneurs who are ditching society's to-do list for intentional living, freedom, and abundance. If we haven't met yet, I'm Nicole Pazvir. I'm an ex-nurse turned matrescence guide and business coach leading women just like you into the new paradigm. Keep listening if you're ready to

unsubscribe from patriarchal motherhood, bro marketing, and boss babe culture. Because in this space, we use nature as our framework as we move towards feminine embodied business development, cyclical orientation, and slow living. Together, let's rewild and remember as we break free from survival and reconnect to what truly matters. Okay friend, steep your tea and take the most loving breath you've given to yourself today and let's go. Hello, Whitney. Welcome to the Rewilded Free podcast. I'm super excited for this conversation because you and I don't really know each other. This is literally the first time that we are meeting, obviously, on Zoom. So I'm excited to hear more about you and just learn about the magic and the wisdom that you are spreading in the world online and in person and all of the things. So why don't we

start? Who are you and what are you currently up to online? Yeah, I'm excited to be here. Who am I? That's a big question. I'm sorry. what I do is like, I bring women back from the dead, like creative women back from the dead. So I really, I really love to work particularly with women who want to dance and write and, you know, create in the world who kind of describe themselves as, as artists or creators. Yeah. I love that. How did you get to that place? I feel like everyone has a juicy entrepreneurship started my business because of X, Y, and Z story. So what's your story there? What is my story there? I, gosh, it was like a convergence of things. So I lived, I'm from South Dakota, but I lived in LA for a long time and I was acting for about 10 years there. And I was working in restaurants, you know, doing the whole like LA actor server thing.

I feel like I can't relate to that, but what I'm imagining is like what we see on TV and movies where there's like the struggling actor to get like whatever there it is they're looking for. And like obviously like Hollywood is not what it's made out to be. And so, yeah, it's kind of like this this hustle and like performative energy and just kind of like chasing this like carrot in front of you. Is that what it felt like? Yeah. Yeah. And then you would have, you know, you would book something and you would feel like this high and you would have a good cashflow, but then like the cycle just continues. And your life is essentially like in your car,

driving to auditions and dependent on, you know, other people to get you in the right rooms and other people thinking you're the right fit for this thing. And yeah, so I was in the game for quite a while. And I was also in a five and a half year relationship. And he was a musician and he actually had quite a bit of success. But our relationship was like really on the rocks like he was such a beautiful person we traveled together and surfed together and you know we had this really beautiful life together but our sex life was kind of non-existent and sexuality had always kind of been this I don't know the words that come are like this point of contention for me again it never felt like I had figured out what everyone else had figured out around sex and orgasm and pleasure and so I was in this relationship you know I was pursuing acting, great guy, really kind. We had a beautiful relationship in a lot of ways. And then I started to kind of look around at my life and was just

like, is this it? Like, you know, I had good friends. We were making movies together. We were, you know, I was like doing all the things that on paper looked right. Yeah. But I had this feeling of, I should feel different than this. Like why, why do I feel so empty? And, and a lot of that related to, you know, our sex life, but it kind of just, it kind of branched out into everything. And so I won't go too much into this story, but basically I went to this workshop with a psychic. My friend invited me to in Santa Barbara and I had pulled this card. Yeah. I won't go into the whole thing, but anyway, I asked her, okay, what does this card mean? And she just looked at me and she said, what's your boyfriend's name? And I told her his name and she looked at me and she looked at the

card and she was like, yeah, he's killing your fire. You gotta go, you know, five and a half year relationship. We have a dog, we have a home built a life together, but I had known kind of deeper down for probably a year or two that this was like, not, not the relationship. Right. So that was almost like this validation of something inside of you that you had been suppressing. Yeah. It was like the slap in the, it felt like a slap in the face, but that's, I think what I wanted and needed, you know? And so I left that workshop and we literally broke up the next day. So we separated. So in that separation, that was just, that was a huge thing, but I was also in this acting class and I had was in this acting class with this man and we were very

connected and well, he ended up becoming my partner, but in this acting class, these, these are kind of converging in a weird way, but I'll trust that y'all are following. I'm totally following. Yeah. I'm also like, there's this like movie dancing in my head right now. It's beautiful. Yes. It's very cinematic. So I was in this acting class before my ex and I broke up for a few months, this acting teacher and I were kind of like, you know, we were like buddy, buddy. There was something, but you know, we were both in relationships and we kept it very chill.

But I came into class one day, I had moved up to a higher level class, but the studio said, hey, we're gonna move you up. And I said, well, I want to stay with this teacher. And, but he was teaching an advanced class. And so I got to go in this advanced class and first day in this next advanced class, he's having us do a scene. And he says, Whitney, okay, before every line of dialogue, I want you to scream up to the universe, what you want. And I said, okay. And without even thinking, it wasn't like premeditated at all. My partner said their line and then I just went,

I want better sex. I just screamed it into this acting class. And he was like, yeah, I clocked that. Like that, you know, like the whole room kind of went. So I like made this big declaration. I was in this relationship where my sex life was really struggling. I made this investment into this class because I was like, this is last ditch effort with this ex-partner. And so I bought this class called Epic Lovers. It was like a series of six date nights that was supposed to, you know, guaranteed to revive your sex life and your intimacy. And I was terrified and I didn't have the money to buy it. And I put it on credit card and I was like, you know, if we can't figure it out with this, I don't know, you know, it's kind

of make or break. And so we, we started to do the date nights, we only got through the first one, and then maybe the a little bit of the next one. The first date night was penis and pussy massage. It was like full on. And you know, it was like, so powerful and beautiful, because the intention of this practice was you were supposed to, you know, massage your partner's genitals. And they could feel whatever they needed to feel. If they were crying, if they were laughing, if they felt pleasure, if they needed to scream, it was like whatever arises for them, you're holding space and you're offering loving touch. And so the woman who Layla Martin, who's who I eventually train with, she's guiding this whole process. And so there's another woman telling my partner exactly how to touch me.

And it was, I mean, it was like amazing on so many levels. It was like, I don't have to say the things he's getting the proper instructions. The container is set, but it also, I was like, it was like pretty mind altering where I was like, oh my gosh, there's so much more to sex than I have even scratched the surface on. And I also really realized how much healing was going to be necessary for me and how, how little I had actually been attuned to my body, let alone my sexuality, my orgasm expression, because before this point, I was also, I hadn't had orgasms. So anyway, long, long way around the bend.

We did this class. Then I went to the psychic. We broke up. Kevin and I got together. I like, I quit my job. I just rearranged my whole life. Like I just, it was like brand new start. And for a while I was just auditioning and I was doing pretty well in commercials. So I could like kind of get by without my restaurant job. And I was doing some energy work and kind of session work with people.

And then Layla opened this program that was like, learn how to be a sex coach year long training. And I was like, I'm doing that. So that was 2018. And I just dove full on, full in. And I think that brings us to where you, your question started. Yeah, no, I'm loving all of this because obviously I do not have the same experience at all. And also there's so many little pieces where it's like, oh yeah, like I can totally resonate with that in my own way. So I also feel like the really like first decade of my adult life, I was, I say I was just following society's to-do list, right? I was checking all the boxes, all the things on paper looked right, but there was that feeling of still feeling empty

and not feeling happy when I feel like I should feel happy and really becoming attached to the sense of like security and safety that I thought I was creating for myself, but also that friction of, but wait, this doesn't actually feel good. Like I thought this was supposed to feel good. Right. So like I had the college degree, I had the job, my boyfriend and I were engaged and buying a house and we had the dog, right. We had all the things and there was still that, yeah, like emptiness that like, I don't even know. It's hard to actually like connect with that feeling anymore, thankfully.

But this knowing that there's something more to life than this, like this isn't actually how I want my life to be. And hearing your story, I can also relate to like the empty sex life. And again, not necessarily in the time having language for that again my so my now husband and I have technically been together since the ninth grade so we've been together a long time we have been each other's only sexual partners so we are all that we know and again like the early years of our adult life like sex was boring sex wasn't enjoyable for me sex was something that I just did because I thought I had to and that made me a good girlfriend and a good fiance and then a good wife right all those things and of course that kind of teeters you into oh well something must be wrong with me right something must be wrong with me and my body why am I not experiencing like joy and pleasure in this

and I really didn't do anything with any of that I just kind of told myself oh I'm not a sexual person and I just I have a low libido and all of these labels I gave to myself to kind of like protect myself from actually feeling anything deeper than that and obviously this episode is not about me but where all of that ended up taking me, again, this was not even intentional because I wasn't seeking out a better sex life in any way. But after becoming pregnant, my libido totally skyrocketed, which was really unfamiliar because I've never been the one to want to initiate things or anything like that. And I feel, again, being pregnant just heightened my sensory experience for everything. And so sex was actually good for the first time ever when I was pregnant. And this was like this really clunky, awkward experience of like, okay, wait, how do we do anything when

I have this like giant belly? And then, and then, so we had this like micro chapter in our lives of getting to experience like good sex and then had the baby postpartum I mean so this is again a pretty whole story but for so many reasons we didn't end up having sex again for 18 months we literally had 18 months my my first 18 months postpartum I was still breastfeeding we were co-sleeping just now knowing what I knowum, I was still breastfeeding. We were co-sleeping. Just now knowing what I know relationship wise, I was lacking some emotional intimacy and emotional connection and all of that. And so again, that libido wasn't there. And we quickly fell back into that pattern of, well, we just are identifying as people that don't have sex very often and we're okay with this. And again, just kind of suppressing any of the sticky

kunky energy and emotions with those labels and then I can't even tell you what changed but when we did start having sex again and obviously the emotional intimacy there was a scaffolding of events that led up to having sex again and I kid you not to this day we're like two years later we're having the best sex of our lives every single to this day, we're like, two years later, we're having the best sex of our lives. Every single time we have sex, we're like, wait, I didn't even know it could keep getting better. It just keeps getting better. And we'll be like, what were we doing 10 years ago? Like, how did we not know what we were doing? And it's just really interesting to look back on, because I can't tell you necessarily what changed, but I can tell you that like what you named, like the healing and the, the creative expression and the, I don't know, just like my own connection

with myself and my body and my voice and my intuition, all of that goes with sex. Like they can't be, they're the same. And I see that like now in my, in my work with conscious creation and business and motherhood, like it's all the same, like business, sex, motherhood, birth, it's all the same. So maybe we can, why don't we like go off some tangents from yeah yeah they're just all so interconnected and I think the thing for me that was I find that women have this experience a lot and this is kind of when they tend to walk in my door is when their soul is like in revolt of their like current life right it again it like looks okay and they're like why can't I kind of fit into this why can't I fit into this current story of my own life would you agree that that like heart in revolt sensation kind of manifests so manifests as this like not enoughness energy

like there's something wrong with me, I'm not enough, I'm not doing enough, I'm doing something wrong. I need to do more, or I need to do something different, or I need something outside of myself to fix whatever's wrong with me. Is that kind of what it shows up as? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, and they've tried therapy, and they've tried other, you know, maybe things, and then they come in, and they're like, you know, you're kind of the last hope to help me fix this. Yeah. But needing to kind of, yeah, reorient and that's, you know, and we could touch into this, but that broader made into mother archetypal transformation and shift too, is that, yeah,

they're, they're, they're the, the way that they've been operating in that maidenhood or in the first part of their life and all that they've gathered from it the you know the relationship the job the money the car whatever it's that same feeling you look around and you're like why do I feel empty inside there's like a spiritual aridity, like a spiritual desert that's happening. And yeah, most women come in, they're like, how can you help me? It must be my nervous system. It must be trauma. It must be this. And of course those are all related, but it's like their soul is hungry. Their soul is really hungry. And that was really- They've been in drought their entire lives yeah yeah yeah and you look around and we're in

a pretty soulless culture yeah it's you know the downsides of modernism and totally yeah well and even like ancestrally not like way way back but even like the past couple generations like it's it's generally generationally being sucked out of us. So we're literally like coming out of the womb with these things that I feel like deep down are innate, but we've already lost touch with them. They're already like zapped out of us as soon as we're like, I don't even know. Yeah. Yeah, totally. And, and really being able to, I think, sense that, that shift between, okay, how do I, what do I need to fix? What do I need to figure out? What's wrong with me? What, what am I not doing well enough? What am I, how am I not working hard enough? How am I not healing well enough? Whatever, whatever, what is like my soul hungry for? Like, where am I starving in my life? And for most women, that's spiritually and emotionally, even if their physical needs are being met. The spiritual, again, that like the spiritual desert that they find themselves in is as kind of where I was, right? I mean, and I was in an

unconventional life, you know, I wasn't, I didn't go get the steady nine to five job. I wasn't saving my money. I was like living the artist's life. And so I was already in an unconventional life and then feeling, well, why doesn't this feel good either so okay I'm coming back to the question that I initially asked around okay so what actually teetered you into entrepreneurship I assume you you went and pursued that year-long sex coach program and then after that did you come out of that well I'm going to be a sex coach now and I'm going to start my own online business and whatnot is that where it all started yeah so I originally went into the the sex training not thinking I would necessarily become a sex coach but I just I'm the kind of

person that if I'm going to do something like I want to go all in and the first half of the program is you and your own practice you don't even yeah it's not even, yeah. You know? So I, I was like self-pleasuring five times a week and, you know, I just was like deep in my own transformation. And then, you know, through that process, I was changing so radically. I remember the first practice we did, I was just like in tears of relief because it, I was like, oh, this isn't actually that hard. It's just, no one has ever given me the tools to actually connect with my body in a way that feels sacred, energetic, loving. This is not hard. Not that there, you know, aren't like layers of shame layers and things to work

through, but oh my gosh, whoa, it like opened this whole new door, like first practice. And so I was just hooked and I was changing so much and I felt so different and I was still auditioning at the time. And I started to book like crazy. Like my friend started to call me the commercial queen. I would just go into these rooms because I wasn't trying to figure out what people wanted me to be anymore. I was so full of my own energy and my own pleasure and my own goodness. I was just walking to these rooms like, yeah, you want me cool. You don't whatever. Yeah. Um, and so what I did from there is even while I was still in my training, I just started inviting women over to my house for circles to just talk about sex.

And we did some really simple embodiment and, you know, we ate fruit and crackers and connected with each other. And that's kind of how my business grew from that. It was just organic. Like I just was sharing about my own journey and then people were like, like yeah I want to work with you or I want to work with you or people would come to the circle I want to work with you and then it just kind of spread from there and then I had I had a business right basically yeah well and I love that because I think I think honestly that is more likely like the the natural way it unfolds like I think when we

when we go into our business trying to force it and trying to like I don't know like I mean I see people they're like okay well I'm gonna start this and so I need the website I need all this and I need this this and that and all these ducks need to be in a row before I can even start having people become clients and just all these like metrics outside of themselves in the sense of like money and followers and it just gets so noisy and it completely pulls you out of the essence and the reason that you probably started whatever you're starting right so I think yeah the natural unfolding of I'm just doing my thing. And if people want to come do it with me, cool. That's yeah. It's just beautiful. And nervous system wise, it's a much gentle, a much more gentle transition into entrepreneurship

as well. Cause the pressure isn't there. Yeah. I mean, I, I did have a financial, there was a financial pressure and I do, I am grateful for that in a way because it did, it was like, okay, like you, you, yeah, you got to work. Yeah. I didn't have, you know, like my partner really did help support me a lot while I was in the training, but you know, like he was teaching acting. He wasn't making, you know, hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. And I didn't have a savings that, you know, it was like out of necessity. But it was also out of deep love in my heart and just like the overflow of what was happening to me.

Yeah. I guess that's what I'm trying to say is like that, that devotion to your craft and your medicine, like that that devotion to your craft and your medicine like that foundation was already built it wasn't like I'm starting a business and then you're trying to fill in what your business is right and I feel like some people do do that I don't want to go back to my job therefore I need to create this and you're forcing creation of something like you had already started the creation process something that was paying for me when you were sharing, I think just the first practice of your sex coach training and like your self-pleasuring five times a week in that phase of your life. Do you remember certain things that

stood out of, I don't know, like transformational changes in your life and like tangible things that you can kind of pick out that had nothing to do with like pleasure and orgasm but were like rippling out in your life I feel like you already shared the fact that you were walking into interviews or into rehearsals and you had that magnetic energy to you but what else I guess the question is like when we really put sex and pleasure and physical intimacy and like self self love really that's what it comes down to is self-love when that becomes the forefront of what we're doing what's the ripple of that yeah so big yeah one of the ways that I remember describing how I felt at that time to people was that I could walk into any room, whether it be a coffee shop, a party, an audition, I don't know, meeting my partner's family. It didn't really matter, but I would walk into the room and feel like so in myself, hyper-tracking what's going on with this person, what's going on with this, do they like me, should I, all of that kind of mental noise of how should I be, how should I talk, that I wasn't even necessarily conscious of before.

But there was just this, yeah, I deserve to take up space. I'm, I'm, I'm here and I have value and I'm, I feel good in my skin. And I was starting to make choices that reflected that, you know, not only that, the breakup with my ex partner, but it was like, I changed my entire like friend group too. Cause I realized like these, I don't even think these are like the right friends. Like I just wasn't, I wasn't really being myself. I was, I was, but I wasn't, you know? So that really changed. Yeah. My business did really well. And I, you know, I didn't have business training. I wasn't like using any kind of strategy or I literally was just like in overflow of excitement about what I was doing and felt so confident in how I could help. Well, and really like that,

that contagiousness of that, that magnetism and that embodiment is our best marketing strategy, right? And oftentimes it can be so forced. So it's, it's a beautiful reminder, I think for all of us that, that, that really is a magical energy to, to claim and tap into in our business, right? And it can't be taught. It's not something that you go seek from some business guru or some person's proven strategy, right? It's a felt experience that only you can create for yourself. Yeah. And I would say, you know, I've had more journeys with this over the last seven years since 2018. But I've, I really felt too, for the first time I was like in a woman's body, I was like, Oh, I'm a woman, you know? And that was at what? 30, 31 years old. Oh, I feel like a woman and not a girl and not just in my sex life, but in my

relationships and my work with my money, you know, I was like, oh, you know, I don't feel 14 anymore. That identity activation, it, yeah, it literally changes. Like you said, the way you spend your money, the way you show up to family dinner, the way you grocery shop, right? It's literally everything. The way you plan your vacations, the way you take a shower literally everything the way you plan your vacations the way you take a shower like the way you touch your body like literally everything changes yeah there was just a sense of like power in myself when what I heard in the first example you gave was like this it almost like the dial turned down on like the hyper vigilanceilance. And again, like, I feel like we might not even be conscious of our, our, our level of hypervigilance, but I

feel like so many of us are walking around with the hairs up on the back of our neck. Right. And we're like, just always like on the lookout, our nervous system is literally looking for threats and scanning for safety in our environment. And we are stuck in these like activated states where, yeah, we're just, it's no wonder we're irritable and we're snapping at our kids or for moms, right. Or we're, yeah. Like just everything you've described it, it makes so much sense when you start looking at it through like the lens of the nervous system and what like our nervous system is doing when we're constantly in that state. Yeah. I felt, I felt safe in myself. Yeah. Yeah. But you created that safety, right? It was this inner resourcing. It wasn't something that you had to go find outside of yourself. Yeah. I wasn't having to

demand that other people create safety for me. And then I also wasn't having to like make my life smaller so I could feel more safe. Yes. Yeah. When I think that's exactly it, right. I think so many of us do spend so much of our life doing that, shrinking ourselves, dimming our own light so that we can fit in and so that we can appease others and we can get the approval and recognition that we think we're looking for right in this perceived sense of belonging this perceived sense of acceptance when it's not actually real because yeah we're shrinking ourselves yeah and I think that goes along with the identity right you mentioned yeah I'm just not I'm just not a super sexual person. Or I did that too. You know, I created all of these kind of identity markers for myself that I thought, I thought this is just who I am, but they were

actually just frozen layers over the top of that real essence. Yeah. Right. My real essence is not, yeah, I'm not very sexual. And I don't, you know, I'm just one of those like 20% of women or 10% or whatever, who's never going to have an orgasm. It was just like, I just realized like, wow, I totally boxed myself in and none of it was true. we're talking about sex in this context, but like this can be such a beautiful metaphor for so many other things. Like what else might you be attaching to that is keeping you stuck in a box? Like what other conditions are you putting on yourself or like limitations that you are clinging to that are keeping you kind of trapped in this desert?

I love this so much. And so you are going to be a guest facilitator in my upcoming retreat, Undone. And I feel like we literally just completely talked about the whole energy behind Undone is like this identity activation through the lens of the nervous system. And like, how do you actually resource yourself internally without looking outside of yourself, blah, blah, blah,

all of that. I love that so much, but I'm super curious to hear what are you doing now in your work? I know you have an upcoming container yourself, and I think bits of that will be weaved into the workshop you're going to be facilitating, but yeah, what's, what's lighting you up right now? Cause I know it's not just sex coaching. No, I don't, I'm not doing a ton of that right now but I feel like it weaves into everything that I do yeah of course of course it does yeah but right now I'm I'm about to start a program called creative fire that's it's essentially all about burning for what you love like being able to light the fire inside. That's going to get you out of the mud. That's going to get you unstuck. That's going to get you out of the looping

thoughts out of the constant anxiety. Oh, come alive again. You know, let's get the fire burning for what you want, for what you love, for what you need, for what, what like, yeah for what you want for what you love for what you need for what what like yeah what you would burn for like what your heart desires like get getting women back on that like soul journey what they really care about and what they're willing to like risk for and you know in so much of the work that I do whether it's around sexuality or trauma healing or with couples it's like we have to have enough raw power to be able to do something with it and that that to me feels connected to that fire if you don't have enough fire like the heaviest karma the heaviest gunk it can't transform and we just going to keep like smothering whatever flame.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it's really like wild movement. There'll be lots of just power, like go for it. Yeah. And I'm also going to be working with archetypes. My, my trauma training is an archetypal trauma resolution. And I also have done quite a bit with the maiden to mother work. And so I'm working in this container. We're going to be working with archetypes. So it's also remembering that everything has a light and everything has a shadow, right? Like your creatrix, yeah, in her wellness and her medicine. Yeah, powerful, brave, creative, undeterred, determined in the shadow. You know, things get funky. And so we're going to work with these different flavors of your inner artist, your inner creator, so that we're also recognizing kind of the underbelly of things, the martyrdom, the self-sacrifice, the manipulation, you know, the weaselly ways that we can kind of like distort our creative energy. And so, yeah, this, these seven rituals are really going to be about how do we bring more fire energy in? How do we make sure we're not in the shadow and in the distortion of the archetypal energy? And how do we just turn up the flame to get things moving?

Turn up the flame without burning ourselves, right? Without getting lost in the shadowy parts because our eyes have been closed to them. Instead, actually holding space for that side of things too. Yeah. Bringing light to, like you said, like I love the language of like the weaselly things. Because that's so, that's exactly what it is, right? We're not intentionally trying to be martyrs. We're not intentionally self-betraying and self-abandoning and extracting from ourselves it's like this like

sneaky weasel energy of like also starting to understand that like the water that we swim in has conditioned us to move and act like that too right because especially as women we've been praised for a lot of those things we've been praised for being selfless we've been praised for a lot of those things. We've been praised for being selfless. We've been praised for not rocking the boat and staying in these little boxes that society wants us in. Yeah. And eventually that's going to start to eat you alive and create depression, anxiety, looping thoughts, feeling stuck, right? Lack of intimacy, lack of sex, lack of drive,

lack of creativity. And so, yeah, so much of this too, and this is what I do in my one-on-one work too. And on retreats, it's like, how do we actually direct, direct that life force energy where it wants to go and where it needs to go. And so much of that fire is like being direct, being able to actually be angry when you're angry and not having that anger loop back in on yourself and weigh you down. Yeah. I mean, you want to open up your, your sex life and your creativity, get intimate with anger every time. Which again, as women, we've been conditioned, like that is not a safe emotion to feel or express. Yeah. And then, and then rather than just being able to express the anger, move the anger,

feel the anger, say the thing to the person, it's like, well, maybe they were having a bad day or, well, what's going on with me? Or why am I so sensitive to this? Or, oh, I should just be able to let it go, but why can't I let it go? Or, oh, you know, it just, it just loops back in and we're in this constant relationship with our minds instead of relationship with the people that we love with the earth around us with you know the things that we actually want to be directing our energy toward really i'm laughing because that's exactly what it is it's literally like spinning out on your own monkey brain on your own mind chatter and it's whoa if you would have literally just allowed that energy to like move through you and pour out of you and be directed

to something with purpose like crisis averted like it just would have it could look so different there was something that you just shared around the life force energy and like when we aren't when we aren't tapping into it right it can kind of turn into things like depression and anxiety and looping patterns of whatever that looks like for the person. And again, I think it's really important to name that those things a lot of people end up identifying with. Oh, well, it's just because I have anxiety or it's just because I have this traumatic experience on my resume and I am totally not gaslighting or bypassing any of that that's valid and also you are worthy of exploring that deeper and not not having those things those

labels those past events those whatever it is be like a prescription for the way the rest of your life looks right and I'm thinking about how you and I both identified, oh, well, you saying I'm just someone that will never orgasm or me thinking I'm just someone that has a low libido. If we would have held on to those identities, it's just keeping us like stuck in that limiting reality, right? And if we can actually transmute it and alchemize it then the reality becomes limitless yeah yeah I have so many especially these days it seems like anxiety like women come in and they want help managing their anxiety and I'm like I'm not interested in you trying to manage your anxiety we're not putting band-aids over things yeah we need to figure out we need to help your anxiety. We're not putting band-aids over things. Yeah. We need to figure out, we need to help your body resolve what's creating the anxiousness. Yeah. So often that's

incomplete flight response and incomplete ability to move, leave, say no, get out of a situation they don't like. Yeah. Yeah. Not completing that response. And then you get stuck there. Yeah. And the same with healthy fight, right? So, so many women, myself included, tend toward that freeze response or that collapse response. And so the fire too, I love working with fire because it's really connected to that healthy fight. The part of you that says, I can, I want, I have, I will, that is able to meet the threat. And for so many women, there's so much backed up incomplete fight response times you wanted to say no times you wanted to push away, you wanted to close your legs, right? All of these kind of incomplete times where our body wanted to say no, or do something different or even say yes,

but we, but we said no. Right. And so being able to work somatically with those incomplete nervous system responses, physiological responses, rather than kind of continuing to go over the story or all the reasons why X, Y, Z is hard for us. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Which really is just perpetuating that, that potential through line of something's wrong with me. I'm not enough. Something within me needs to be fixed. Right. And it's what I'm hearing from you. And like, this is a big overlap with my body of work too. Like's not about fixing it's not about control it's not about regulation it's really about tending to and building a relationship with those parts of ourselves and those like stored memories that our body is trying so boldly to communicate with us

and it's it's beginning to turn down the volume of the noise around us. So we can actually become like, yeah, just available to listen to that communication of our body. Yeah. And to be able to like, no, go ahead. I was just going to say as cliche as it sounds like our, our, our, we do have everything we need within us. Right. I feel like people talk about that all the time in the coaching space. Like you already have everything within you. And that is such a hard thing to like somatically get on board with because we've literally

spent decades and maybe even generations of it, not feeling safe to tap into our bodies and wisdom well i think it there's a this is where a really skilled you know trauma therapist or se coach can come in is like deciphering kind of what what is a stuck nervous system response and what is just like something that just needs to change externally. So the system can settle, you know, is this, can I actually trust this response or is this a trauma response? You know, that can be really difficult to, to kind of untangle, but in general, I feel like women spend so much time taking things in, right. And thinking things through and well, what can I do? Or what is that person doing? Or what does that person need? All of this, we're trying to internally metabolize everything. And I

have women come into my coaching space too, and say, okay, you know, how do I feel better about this? And I'm like, well, you have to tell the person that you don't like what they did. You know, it's not like, how do I get over this thing? The way you get over this thing is say that hurt me. It's like, you got to bring what's in out. Yeah. Yeah. That's so much of the somatic work for me. Like I'm all that like I'm I'm kind of connecting with literally like women we are vessels and so you're right like we internalize so many things we are constantly digesting and like bringing things in and then we get in these patterns of just like holding it all there where when we are like truly connected to our divine feminine energy like we are vessels and so that release also has to happen and you just named it sometimes it's just the expression

of voicing whatever that need or desire was or like stating that boundary sometimes it's through like birthing a new creation or I don't know I feel like that release can look and feel different in so many different ways and I imagine that's a big part of what of what your work becomes right this fiery creative energy is okay wait how are we also like releasing and like diffusing that energy because we've internalized so much of it yeah you got to put it in its right place so you're not like stockpiling it. And this is something that happens a lot in the work that I do, because so much of what I do is ends up being around boundaries and being able to have a clear yes and a clear no. And women who really self identify

as women who know what they want, who speak their mind, who, you know, they identify that way. But when I actually put them in a circumstance where they have to, with their physical body and their voice, just say no or stop. It's so hard. And so you can feel like there's a there's a disconnect between because I think a lot of women mistake myself included I mean we've all got trained this way mistaking complaining or being demanding or somewhat controlling as having healthy boundaries and it's totally different yeah it's almost like when you start identifying as someone that like knows what they want and says what they want it's almost like this permission of i just get to walk around like a bitch all the time and it's no that's not it right that's not actually the vibe we're going for but i can also see why there's probably

this pendulum swing and if you've kind of been on the more passive side and kind of that good girl That's not actually the vibe we're going for, but I can also see why there's probably this pendulum swing. And if you've kind of been on the more passive side and kind of that good girl, people pleaser, you do kind of swing to that like bitch villain energy at first. Yeah. But even that it's not direct. Right. Yeah, exactly.

Like that's not, that's not where we want to be because that's still, yeah, it's scattered and not in the right place. Yeah, exactly. Like that's not, that's not where we want to be because that's still, yeah, it's scattered and not in the right place. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot to say about that. I don't know if that's super clear, but, but yeah, there's a difference between, you know, I don't like it when you do this or this is happening and this is how I feel. And this is blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Versus saying, I don't want to do that right now. Right. Yeah. Or I feel hurt versus this is what you do.

And why don't you ever do this? And why do I want you to say this? And, but I don't feel close to you and I don't feel connected. And, you know, and we think we're expressing ourselves, but again, it's, it's kind of like, it's kind of still like it's looping and it's kind of coming out, but it's not. I feel very hurt when this happens. I want to make this request. And if you can't give it, I'm adult enough to be able to take care of myself, but this is how you could love me. You know, just for an example example like a couple or something but yeah no and that is a good that is a really good example because I think yeah like I said like that pendulum swing can often take us to that other side where now we're just like we think we're fully expressed we think we're saying all the things but it's but it's still not quite purposeful and you're actually still not moving the energy where it needs to go where my mind is taking this is like how this shows up in like conscious entrepreneurship and business and marketing where like you think you're saying all the right things and you're

copywriting and you're creating all the content but again it is that actual purposeful release of energy or are you still just kind of spinning your tires and and that manifests as's, it feels like nobody's hearing you and you're probably not getting the conversions you're looking for. Yeah. Yeah. Well, there's two things that I think of and you know, okay. Entrepreneurship is a fucking ride y'all. It's hard and it's a spiritual journey all on its own because you do have to confront a lot of these things, but yeah, what I think of is, well, one is your heart connected to it, right? Because it's not just the fire. It's like the, or just the no, or I don't like that.

Or this is how I feel. This is my opinion. Is your heart in what you're saying or what you're doing? And can people feel you? They can't feel your heart. And the same with any expression to your partner, to your friend, right? Are you letting yourself be in, in the copywriting or in the video or are you there yeah or is it like scripted yeah yeah is your heart there and is your heart connected to this you know you want to share a fiery opinion cool is your heart there too yeah or is it just I want to say this thing because I think people will like oh you know I've done that.

Yeah, totally. Yeah, we've all been guilty of that, but you totally can feel a difference. And I mean, I sometimes do this where I literally do like a mini audit of my own like content and look through it. Oh, yeah. Like I felt myself there versus, oh, no, like I literally was just saying something to take up space for a minute. And it is really interesting to reflect back on those moments and really recognize like what was the context behind the energy of me being able to show up with my heart and it's interesting because as I'm like reflecting in real time it's like this perfect storm of oh

well like I was feeling well nourished I was like eating protein in the morning and I had good sex the night before and I got like sunlight in my eyes or it's all those things that literally make us feel alive as a human that widen our capacity, I think, to actually show up from that heart centered space. Does that make sense? Yeah, totally. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's kind of where coming back just to the through line of some of what we've talked about already, this sexuality and full body expression. And I don't even know what else that's, that's why it's so important because the tangible manifestations of it aren't just more orgasms. It's okay. okay no now you are probably having more clear communication with your loved ones you're actually like not having I don't know you're not bickering with your husband

anymore you're not snapping at your kids and now your your content online is actually magnetic and like calling in the right people because that that fire energy that heart energy is actually felt I love that I love it all so much like everybody and it's it's understand this stuff it's a constant learning like oh totally totally sure you know I'm not perfect at it by any means I have a lot to learn in that arena but when I do take the time rather than okay what can I say today or what what should I share about when I do take the time to sit down and light a candle and feel like what's actually in my heart yeah it really it really makes a difference yeah and the same with any communication with anyone, you know, it's easy to complain. It's easy to like state your case. It's a lot harder to say things like from your heart that make you feel a little

bit vulnerable that are. Yeah. I was just going to say there's that edge of vulnerability there and the courage that it takes to hold yourself in that vulnerability. like you gave the example of like clearly communicating a need and like behind that communication is also if you can't meet this need I know I have myself so it's also that like self-resourcing that needs to kind of be the foundation of all of this like I have my own back or I I have access to the resources externally around me that I know will have my back right whether it's certain friendships or coaches or right whatever it is there whatever it is like you just knowing who your who your who your village is who your who your back is protected by because that's the other thing we're not supposed to be doing all this alone and I think that's another pendulum swing

that women can kind of find themselves on is oh okay well I just have to like self-resource so hard that I fall into this like hyper individualistic paradigm and that's not the vibe we're going for either it's this like openness to receive support and be able to ask for support too yeah so many of us our our needs kind of got frozen and so yeah it's well no one can do it better me. And I just have to do it by myself and they don't get it. And yeah, I mean, that it's another conversation, but that is like the most tender, most developmental, you know, attachment stuff. That's so, so tender and is really powerful to start to work with.

What are your needs? Can you sense your needs? Do you know your needs? Can you sense your needs? Do you know your needs? Can you speak your needs? And that's, I think, kind of where that fire comes in because that, you know, there's three kind of components of the attachment cycle. And one is you have to be able to sense your needs, just like a baby, right? When they need changed or they need to eat, they cry.

Yeah. And then, yeah. So we have to be able to like sense our needs from the body level. Then we have to be able to mobilize toward them. So, right. We got to be able to reach out to the friend. We got to be able to make ourselves some food. That's where the fire comes in. That's where that healthy fight comes in. Like I have to be able to move toward what I need. Yeah. And then I have to be able to actually receive it. Yeah. And then my system can settle again, back into safety until the next need comes. And that fire energy, that healthy fight, I think that's the part where like we start to build the self-trust. I can do that. I can have the conversation. I can say the thing I can survive someone else being uncomfortable.

I can, yeah. Survive the difficult conversation. I can reach out when I need help. I can go out for a walk. I can make myself food. I can, you know, I can, I can take care of myself yeah and I can also do all these things without it making meaning about me and my sense of worth because I think that's the other part is like we can become or we can like start on these journeys of yeah like I'm I'm practicing my boundaries and I'm asking for my needs but I know I've been there where actually this is a tangent, but I feel like it's relevant. Like my early postpartum days really were a invitation and initiation to practice the art of receiving because I very much found myself in this, well, I have to figure it all out. If I can't do this, then I'm weak.

And again, smacking those labels on myself right so that I didn't have to actually deal with the gunk that was underneath it but so much so of oh this shows up in not being able to receive a compliment right how quick are are we to be like oh I like your blah blah blah when someone compliments your dress you can't even receive a compliment or going out for dinner with a friend and like they offer to pay like how hard is it to receive something like that and it is really interesting once you start witnessing that uh resistance to to receive things or that that impulse to give it right back in some other way it's so fascinating and of course this shows up in sex too, right?

Can you just receive pleasure without having to give it back? Yeah. And I, you know, I think most of, especially women, we really learned that like giving and receiving is transactional. Yeah. Oh yeah. So, so yeah. Right. Sex becomes transactional. transactional yeah yeah who pays for dinner you know oh my friend babysat my kids now I you know I need to make sure I have you know get her gift or baby offer to babysit hers and and you know that's a product of the the culture to the capitalism is just everything is a a transaction instead of like just being in right relationship yeah yeah one like it shows up too and again my story like as new parents it's so easy to fall into this pattern of keeping score oh well like I did this many diaper changes.

So now it's your turn. And it's wait a minute, like we're a team here. It's not actually about that. Yeah, this is like a really tender topic though, because like you said, like it starts with being able to acknowledge what it is you're needing. And that in itself has been suppressed and squished out of us right even

thinking about just modern modern what am I trying to say just being an infant and a child in modern day you're not allowed to cry you are supposed to sleep through the night and then you're sent to daycare when you're like potentially six weeks old or one year old whatever it is and your needs don't matter we are taught that from such a young age so all of this work you're talking about really is this unlearning and this like unbecoming of all the things that we've kind of internalized and been told that we need to be yeah because I think you know for definitely for me and this is still an unlearning process but I think a lot of women learn that the less I need the more lovable I'll be right so I just I

just shrink and shrink and shrink and shrink and shrink and shrink and shrink and shrink and shrink and shrink my needs until that breaking point comes where, yeah, the anxiety is out of 10. I can't sleep. I can't poop. I can't eat or I'm overeating or everything feels like it's falling apart, right?

The soul is like in revolt because the needs have been diminished and diminished and diminished so much because we think it's makes us easier to, to love. Yeah. Just a really silly example. I had a friend who was getting married and for the bridal party, which I was a part of, instead of, you know, just saying, Hey, this is what I want. You know, you can wear this dress, but it needs to be in this color. These are the shoes you can pick between these two earrings, whatever. She like opened it up to where, you know, what do you guys think? What's everybody think? Thinking it was making it easier for everyone. But meanwhile,

right. It just was like, just tell us what you want. That would make it easy. Yeah. Right. Oh, I don't want to be a bridezilla or I don't want to be this, or I don't want to be too demanding or too needy or right. And this motion over and over and over. Yeah. What do you want to eat? Oh, whatever you want. Yeah. Do you want to, do you want to go for a walk? If you do. Yeah. You want to, you want to go for a walk if you do. Yeah. You know, it's always putting, it's like always putting the decision on someone else. So you don't ever have to feel and sense what you want and then feel and sense of discomfort if someone doesn't agree. Yeah. Yeah. But that's what real intimacy is based on like we get to be two

different people instead of always being agreeable or having the same opinions that's what creates real intimacy is we can both be ourselves and I want Thai food well I don't want that yeah okay well and that that space for disagreement the art of holding space for that has also been lost, right? And look at just the divides that we're seeing in the world right now, and specifically like online with whatever, we don't need to get into that. But the art of being able to hold space for disagreement is lost. We are so quick to just cancel someone and just completely well I feel like it's one of two ways either we cancel them and we say they're wrong I'm right or we internalize it as I'm wrong and again that that not enoughness there's something wrong with me you need to fix something blah blah blah blah

when it's actually no we're actually both right right we're both right we're both allowed to have these opinions we're both allowed to have these opinions we're both allowed to have different wants and needs and desires and there's still space to coexist yeah yeah I think that's what kind of gets scary obviously about social media but also I think about healing spaces is that it's kind of become they've kind of become spaces where people get coddled and everything has to be certain way for people to feel safe and everyone has to agree and everyone has to, you know, and not that we don't want like clear containers and things, but yeah, it just, again, we're creating such a small place for ourselves to exist. And we start to look for coaches, teachers,

healers, people, friends to create that safety outside of us to create a bubble. So we don't have to like address any, any, our own discomfort. We don't have to be with our own discomfort, but that discomfort is part of the courage, right? And so what's going to lead to the, the, the choice that changes your life or the, the deeper relationship or the better friendship or the better sex or the different job or the more money or the, you know, being able to, to be willing to be in that discomfort and risk for what I would call love risk for love yeah so a big part of my work right now and obviously a big part of the energy and the vibe behind Undone is being able to to acknowledge and voice and ultimately go after our desires and I'm seeing so clearly just in this conversation like obviously that is so

hard to do in the context of everything we've just brought up and also the importance of it has to start with meeting your own needs like you can't move into wants and desires until your basic needs have been met and yeah this work just gets so juicy because it's not just it's not just like creating a vision board on Pinterest right it's actually what's the like inside out work that has to be done so that you aren't literally like cock blocking your own desires in the same breath of naming them like where where can you actually build that internal resiliency that internal safety and that like heart flame energy to trust yourself and have that courage and vulnerability to go after and risk whatever might involve being lost to go after that desire.

And being willing to be messy. That's something that I'm like, I see all the time is people want to, they want to do the healing and they want to be seen as like a wild, messy woman, you know, get out of their perfectionism, but they want to do it perfectly yeah yeah yeah that that actually brings me back to something that I wanted to stop you on when you said something about that like fire energy it's about moving it in the right place you kept saying right place and my inner girl good girl was like oh well then that's just something else for me to perfect because now I see it as right or wrong and my mind immediately sees a binary there and so okay if there's a right place to put it that means there's a wrong place to put it and so I want to perfect that curious what you have to say about that because I'm sure I'm not the only one that takes it that way. And yeah, the perfectionism tendency is just

their little weasels too. Yeah. Well, I think a lot of, when I say right place, it's like where your system naturally, where it's trying to go, where the energy is trying to go. Yeah. For example, and the is trying to go. Yeah. Breaking through the sheds and the societal expectations. Yeah. You know, I think the easiest example is like getting caught or one example, looping in a conversation. Yeah.

Looping on how you feel about something that happened or, or with someone. The rumination. The rumination, the rumination, the rumination happens when the thing doesn't just go, Hey, I didn't like that you did that. You know, it's nothing's gonna solve this. You can't inner heal something that just needs to actually be directly said to someone. Yeah. That's what I mean by right place. Yeah. And yeah, I mean, there's lots of nuance to that, of course, but it's like, what's the, what's the direct path that either, right. Somatically my body is trying to move in a certain way, right. You see that with folks when you're doing trauma

resolution work, they'll start talking about something, you know, their hands will go or their jaw will go. And so their body is trying to complete something, right? Usually a fight response, if it's hands and jaw or legs. But instead of moving toward the physical thing that's happening, we're trying to calm it. And we're trying to like, talk it away, or we're trying to do anything, but go directly toward the thing is kind of what I mean. Yeah, that makes sense. You know, another like huge example from my work around anger is women, you know, they'll tell me about something or, you know, we'll start a session and, and, you know, ask, okay, what's happening for you and, and what's here right now. And they'll say, I'm so angry, but then start to cry. And not that the tears aren't allowed, but crying is a different energy than what's connected to anger.

Not that sometimes they can overlap, but what usually happens is they'll say, I'm so angry and you can see the anger, but then instead their system diverts it because they don't, we haven't practiced it. It's more scary to hold the anger. It'll divert to sadness. Yeah. Because sadness has been safe in some contexts yeah it's safe for women to feel sad and to cry yeah it's less practice less safe less you know that path is just habituated yeah in that context like their system is it wants to express the anger but it's getting there's like a trap door and it's getting diverted in a different direction. That's just the loop is continuing. Like it's not resolving the loop. It's like the anger is the direct path, is the thing that the system wants to have happen. And that it's trying to do, but it's getting stuck. It's getting stuck.

It's getting stuck. It's getting stuck. And so that's where the somatic work comes in is, okay, I'm going to help hold you in this spot. I got you. I'm here with you. How do you lean toward that instead of it? Yeah. It's just, it's like the record skips in the same spot every time you're angry, but we can't express anger. So it turns into sadness or shame or judgment or something else. And it, it gets clouded. And then

we feel confused, distorted. We're in the collapse instead of the healthy fight that like something can resolve itself. Yeah. And all I was going to say is that that's also a perfect example of the other example you were shining light on where it's so important to be able to recognize when there's these kind of like protective mechanisms creeping in, right? Someone could very easily be like, okay, well, let's hold space for this sadness. And let's let your system go there. Right. And it does take that skilled coach and practitioner to actually see that, oh, wait, no, that that right direction is like, completing the fight response. Yeah, yeah. And it it yeah because because i think that's where like healing can can do us a disservice like in certain circumstances is that it just yeah

perpetuating that skip in the sadness yeah it's a perfect example yeah yeah if if your practitioner is always just agreeing with everything that's happening for you. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, letting you always take the lead, you're probably going to be missing some things. And I think for most women they're missing, right. Because a lot of them are going to women who, you know, we, we tend toward the freeze. We tend to hold the sadness and the grief and the, and, and that's beautiful. And it's so necessary. And we so need that too, but like my goddess, we really need some of that fire energy, some of that healthy fight so that we don't keep collapsing back into helplessness. Yeah.

And it's, I have my own example that's kind of coming up to share here. And this is kind of the opposite from, from the coaching mentor perspective as a coach, as a facilitator, I've witnessed my own beautiful evolution of really stepping into this activator identity where like the first like year and a half of my journey as a coach like I would catch myself biting my lip and I'd be like well I can't say that or like I might I don't know I might hurt someone's feelings or like they don't actually want to hear what I have to say on that and it's no Nicole actually like that is your fire energy wanting to be expressed and really leaning into the power of that activation in the context of coaching like obviously these people are paying to be in a container with me and wanting some type of transformation so me biting my lip is actually doing such a disservice

and so actually like holding the pose and that activation and being able to hold my own discomfort of like well I might be wrong but can I also trust that they'll be able to clearly communicate oh this doesn't land or that doesn't feel right for me and yeah I just I think that's really important because like you said in the the healing, in the healing spaces right now, there is a lot of coddling and I have totally been victim of perpetuating that coddling, right? Biting my lip and not wanting to, not wanting to do harm and wanting to make sure my spaces are safe. And all of those things are true and valid and like well-intentioned. And there is a time and place where it's actually doing harm. Yeah. Yeah. You know, like the way that I think about creative fire and just some of these things that I am really passionate about and really want to do. And it also connects to, you know, my background in the creative arts and theater. It's, you don't really know how far you can go until someone says go further. Oh, yes. You know, if you only keep to what you already know how to do, and what you already know

how to feel. Yeah, you're not gonna be growing and you're not going to feel that sense of power and self-trust. If, if you, you know, if you feel like you're the kind of person I am, I love to be challenged and it's very rare to find people that know how to do that. Yeah. And it's, I mean, think of how much more, you know, exercise classes. Yeah. People go because they know I'm not going to work that hard if I stay home and do this exercise. But I know if I have someone saying, okay, two more, or you can do this. You fucking got this. Feel that anger, feel your fists, let your jaw tighten. What sound wants to come? You got this. Yeah. And it's not, you know, there's a difference between forcing and coaching. You know, that's a, that's coaching. And at any choice, you have

choice. You have agency. If you want to stop, if you want to tell me to fuck off, that's fine. Yeah. You can do that. I got you. And this is what I see. And I know you can do this. Yeah. Right. I know you can do this and you've had people all your life. Yeah. Yeah. Yourself included telling you like you're fragile and you need to slow down and you need to, you know, be softer. And of course, there's a time and a place for slow and soft, but for a lot of us, like we got to get with the activation and the power in a real clear way. Yeah. Coherent way to where your voice, your energy, your physical physicality it's all moving in the same direction right it's like when women say when someone will ask a question right and they'll say oh it's like

what is that communicating it's not you know it's mixed messages it's the signals are getting mixed. Or, ah, no, no, I don't want that. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. No, I don't know. Do you get what I'm saying? I totally get what you're saying. Or almost like asking a question in like the cadence of your voice, even though you're not asking a question. I can't think of an example of that right now, but you probably know what I mean, right?

Where women do this all the time, where literally it's almost like the end of their sentence ends up being a question because they're still looking for that validation or approval of, wait, can I actually say this? Do you actually understand what I'm saying? I catch myself all the time saying, did that make sense? And I'm noticing, I'm like, okay, Nicole,

like you don't need to keep asking. And I have this pattern of over-explaining and I'm catching myself and I'm totally working through it right now. But that's a perfect example of it too, right? I don't need to keep asking if it made sense. I can trust that someone will ask for clarification if I'm not making sense. Yeah, totally. And also just trust that I am making sense.

Because again, I've identified with this label one time of I don't make sense and that's absolutely not true I do make sense there's maybe just moments where I talk too much I totally feel you yeah but anyways like just to kind of pull all this together like I love where we just kind of ended up there where like we I don't know just coming back to these like labels and identifiers that we can put on ourselves and how important it is to surround ourselves with with coaches or believing mirrors or whatever it is whether you're paying to have them in your corner or someone that you have in your inner circle already to really be that activation for

you and be that mirror of yeah we're not just here to coddle anymore we're not just here to stay in our comfort zone like we want to grow and so that involves meeting our growth edges and like resourcing ourselves to not just meet them but also expand them yeah yeah Yeah. I think the best coaches can hold, you know, the, the depths of the softness and that, right. I think of this as mother energy, the two major aspects of mother energy, that unconditional love, like whatever is here is totally welcome. And just like you would, you know, you don't have to like it, but it's what's happening. Yeah. And that fire energy. Yeah. Yeah. I know you don't want to, but you can do it and you're going to do it and we're going to try it and we're going to see what

happens. And I'm here. You're not alone. I fucking got you and I see you and I feel you and you can do this you can do it yeah yeah okay anything else coming up for you that you want to sneak into this conversation or things feeling complete I feel like this could go for five hours it totally could and like we've already yeah we've already kind of pulled on so many threads, which is beautiful. I think, I think, yeah, just kind of reiterating that everything we were talking about in relation to sex and like sexuality and that whole beginning conversation really is such a beautiful metaphor for so many other things like outside of

sex yeah yeah totally totally yeah you have to clearly communicate you got to be attuned to your body you have to understand your own pleasure you have to be in the present moment you gotta be in reality yeah you have to follow your own energy and someone else's energy yeah yeah yeah you have to be willing for it to be awkward and messy and weird and uncomfortable that's where we didn't quite go is that that that segue into messiness but i think that's totally okay because that could be a little other podcast episode but yeah I'm glad that we we named it because the messiness and the the clunkiness and the clumsiness that comes in all of this is so natural and needed and like I think collectively we need to widen the permission field of what messy and clumsy looks like because you named it already right there's these people that are like oh yeah I just want to be that wild woman and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And then they're just still stuck in the perfectionism patterns and tendencies, and really just trying to perfect their wildness, which you can't do. No, no, it's true. It's true. Okay, so you're offering creative fire is starting when January 9th cool okay so if you're listening to this in real time pop into that if that is feeling like something that's lighting you up and then my undone retreat starts January 13th so two exciting things happening soon and then outside of that, I assume you'll have other offerings, other group stuff, but otherwise one-on-one containers too, is an option. Yep. I have some space for one-on-ones right now and couples. Amazing.

And where can people find you online? You can find me on Instagram at Whitney Elam and my website, Whitney Elam.com. Beautiful. Thank you, Whitney. Thank you.