REWILD + FREE - MUSINGS + MAGICK: Shedding the “Shoulds” and Illuminating the “Coulds” as Mother Entrepreneurs (APRIL FULL MOON WITH LAUREN AND NICOLE)

Episode Date: April 9, 2025

We all know about the “shoulds”, but what about the “coulds”? In this episode we reflect on this sneaky feeling of always feeling “behind” despite logically knowing that time is just a construct.  We realize what’s actually happening is this feeling of lost potential and disappointment of not getting as much done as we wanted to. Which leads us to explore how we are already shedding the “shoulds” but what about the “coulds”? The “I could be doing more”, “I could be working on this”, “I could’ve spent my time getting this done” etc.   As always we weave in our embodied and somatic perspectives into the conversation, and dissect the word ambition–what it actually means and how it’s been tainted by boss babe hustle culture. The conversation beautifully gives a glimpse of the essence of living our values and integrity, balancing external pressures, and embracing authenticity in business and invites you to do the same. Thanks so much for hanging out with us, if you enjoy these episodes please share them with a friend, leave a review wherever you’re listening from, and come on over to instagram to continue the conversation..Connect with Nicole on IG (@nicolepasveer) Connect with Lauren on IG (@nestandnourish) .We also invite you to join our upcoming free class + conversation: RECLAIM THE ART OF HOLDING SPACE for Mother-Serving Professionals Who Are Ready Disrupt the Norms of Mother Care, Without Sacrificing Integrity, Connection and Depth. We teach and invite you into the conversation of what we believe are the 9 essential practices of holding space. Because holding space is about presence, connection and integrity. NOT just with your clients, but also with yourself, and with your business. Live on zoom April 29 at 1pm PT // 4pm ETClick here to learn more and save your spot for Reclaim The Art of Holding Space Additional resources mentioned in this episode: The Balanced Woman hormone health program with Dr. Eni DPTLunar Cycle Calendar Subscription for Iphones . . 00:00 Introduction and Purpose of Musings and Magic00:44 Full Moon Energy Check-In02:20 Personal Health and Thyroid Medication05:42 Celebrating Two Years of Podcasting14:08 The Concept of Shoulds vs. Coulds17:53 Redefining Ambition and Success19:31 Creating a Sustainable Business Approach22:02 Embodiment as Marketing24:14 Integrity in Business25:43 The Ripple Effect of Integrity27:15 Modeling Rest and Self-Care29:14 The Art of Holding Space30:55 Breaking the Cycle of Imposter Syndrome40:14 Redefining Success40:59 Introducing the 'Held' Program

Welcome to Musings and Magic. I'm Lauren Fortuna-Flock. I'm a mother doula, the host of the Well-Nourished Mother podcast and a somatic matressin's guide. I support mothers through the waves of intensity motherhood brings, so they can fall in love with the mother they are and the mother they are becoming. And I'm Nicole Pazvir, a mom, wife, and host of the Rewild and Free podcast. I help women awaken beyond the conditioning that's been keeping them pretty, perfect, and pleasing so that they can live more consciously, mother intuitively, and grow their business holistically.

We've never met in real life and we live 700 miles apart. But we've been holding space for each other virtually since 2022 when we found each other in super similar seasons of life. Yeah, we were both in our retiring from a super secure nursing job, in the thick of postpartum and starting a heart led business era.

We found ourselves chatting for hours on Zoom, almost weekly, having the deep, why isn't anyone talking about this conversations around all things motherhood and conscious entrepreneurship. So we started recording these unfiltered and unscripted conversations to bring you this co-created series. We're inviting you in with deep trust that you'll receive whatever insight, wisdom, or solidarity you need in this season. Because we all know motherhood and entrepreneurship are lonely as fuck. Yeah we're blending our musings with a touch of magic, the kind of woo-woo more spiritual witchy stuff that we're both so curious about but don't fully relate to. Yet. Our intention is to invite more ritual into our lives so we're using this series to anchor into the cycle of the

moon, meeting on the full and new moons of each month. We'll do an energy check-in and explore nuanced conversations around big topics related to cyclical orientation, feminine embodiment in business and motherhood, and our own personal explorations related to reclaiming our inner witch. So if you're ready to come laugh, learn and reflect with us, then keep listening. But first we invite you to take the deepest breath you've given to yourself yet today. And when you're ready, let's go. Hi. Hi.

Hi, I'm Bremen. Hi. So we've been, this is going to be funny because we've been talking for the last like hour. And then this is exactly like why we started Musings and Magic because we would have these conversations and be like, oh, this is good. Like we should hear this. And that's pretty much what just happened. We're like, wait a minute, we should hit record and turn this into a Musings and Magic episode. So here we are. Here we are. I'm going to try to circle back to what inspired us to press record on this episode, and it's probably gonna be a bit clunky because it's just awkward to repeat something that we got

so fired up about. But we did put a pin in it. We didn't finish our fiery thoughts, so hopefully they come back. Yeah, we're also wanting to just bring more attention to our energy check-in. So I think we have a full moon coming up. I think. And the only reason I think that is because last night Aubrey looked out the window and said, oh, where's the moon?

And we were able to find it and we haven't been able to find it recently. So yeah, I think. I love it. I think we have a full moon coming up. But now I'm actually very curious because. I love how we started this with like such intention to keep it like based around the new moon and the full moon coming up, and I'm actually very curious, because it's... I love how we started this with such intention, to keep it based around the new moon and the full moon. I added a lunar calendar to my phone calendar.

Like, you can subscribe. Oh, that's cool. Yeah, so it's brilliant. So I can literally look. Yeah, there's a full moon on Saturday. Oh, look at us. Look at us. We just knew it was time for Amusings and Magic episode.

Yeah. Also fostering. Right on time. We just knew it was time for an Amusings and Magic episode. Yeah. We're still fostering a cat right now, so I hear this meowing behind my door, and I need to go let him in, because I just can't say no one second. Okay, you let him in. He's pretty cute. Nicole keeps saying he's like a dog in a cat suit.

Yeah, my entire life I've identified as someone that doesn't like cats. It's been a cool learning experience, but also just like this reminder that animals are animals. It's really interesting to be humbled by like, he is an animal with a spirit and a soul and like his own vibration and frequency with his literal purr. And yeah, like I have it in my heart to love a cat even though I didn't think I could.

Anyways, so full moon, energy check-in. Yeah, I'm on like day 25. And yeah, I was saying earlier, like I'm on thyroid medication. I have Hashimoto's, which is an autoimmune thyroid condition. I've been on like thyroid hormone replacement for maybe a little over a year now, still tinkering with doses. And when there's autoimmunity involved, it makes it all a little bit trickier. But yeah, I've been reducing my dose a bit and yeah, I'm feeling kind of the effects of that feeling a bit more tired again, a little bit lack of motivation,

but I'm also on day 25. It could just be that too. Yeah. You were also mentioning how like one of your telltale signs of like your thyroid medication being off is like your irritability and like your, for lack of a better word, lack of patience. With my daughter especially. Yeah.

And so that's interesting. I want to put a pin on that because that probably weaves into the conversation we're going to get into. For me, I just locked on Monday 23. We're close again. Yeah, we are close again, which is so interesting because yeah, I have a shorter cycle and you have a longer cycle and yeah, every so often we come back together. Yeah, I honestly don't even know what I'm feeling.

I've been completely disconnected from lots of things right now. I will say, I think obviously coming out of ovulation, like I felt some of that increased energy. I wouldn't necessarily say I experienced any like, shift in creativity so far this cycle, but I know that often that like, ping of creativity comes more in my ludial phase and this kind of desire to follow through and finish and tie up like, loose ends, so I bet that will come, but also my cycle constantly reminds me that like I don't get to...

There's no shoulds. Yeah, there's no shoulds. And that's the thing is I will get into, and we've talked about this too, where especially with a menstrual cycle, it's oh, I'm ovulating, so I should feel this, or I should do this, or I'm bleeding right now. I should do this, I should feel this way.

And yeah. Yeah, it's not meant to be prescriptive. And I think that's what we sometimes miss when we're trying to become more embodied, more attuned to the more feminine side of things. There's still this, oh, it should be this way. When I think when we get into that land of shedding on ourselves, we're also like intellectualizing it.

And we've talked about this too, right? That's how it starts, like I think we have to intellectualize these things to begin to unlearn and relearn. I'm talking about the menstrual cycle, but I think this also applies to like nervous system stuff, right? Like it starts with this flavor of intellectualizing it to understand it, but then the embodiment has to come in, and embodiment can't happen if you continue to just be stuck in your head and stuck in the like textbook.

Like I said, I'm ovulating, so I should feel this way. I should do this during this season or phase of my cycle when it's actually, can you be present with your body and have that relationship with your body and your menstrual cycle, your nervous system, whatever it is that you are translating this to and yeah, hey, what do you need from me right now? How can I tend to you in this moment right now? Yeah. And this applies to so many different things.

And I'm just going to take a second here because we're both celebrating two year anniversaries of our podcast. And I just, yeah, I threw up a little story last night about that. And one of the things I was saying, I'm proud of myself for continuing with it, even though I've probably broken all of the rules that come with having a podcast, all of the mainstream. Oh, you need to be consistent. You need to have a new episode every week. You need to do this. You need to do that. All the shits that come along with that as well. And again, like when you're trying to apply this more like embodied, more feminine approach to your life and to your

business, it's going to look a lot different than what's around. And it can feel really like you're on shaky ground and like you don't know what you're doing half the time because there's nobody to look to to be like oh look at them look at how they're doing it. So yeah I just want to take a second to be like hey happy two year anniversary to both of us. Both of us yeah like doing it our own way at our own pace our own perfect pace not paying attention to too many of the shoulds. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I'm proud of us. I also want to say, because we, I think I brought this up a couple weeks ago saying, hey, our podcast, like I think in March, I was like, oh, coming up in April, it's going

to be our two year podcast anniversary or whatever. And you had reflected back how immediately it was hard for you to find things to celebrate. Like you immediately sank into the like... Yeah. Oh, I've only done two episodes or I've only done three episodes this year or whatever. Yeah. Because we were reflecting on the past year of podcasting. And then I reflected back, like, what did I say?

I said something about, yeah, like I'm still noticing that I'm sometimes hung up on metrics. And so there's some disappointment that there hasn't been, quote unquote, growth in the way the podcast land makes you believe that a podcast, a successful podcast should grow. And you helped me realize, but Nicole, like you have done such an incredible job of just hitting record, right? Breaking free from that perfectionism

and need to have it all figured out and have an agenda and an intention with the episode and yeah, I have done that. I have gotten really good at that. Yeah. So inspiring. So I am proud to offer that because it makes it more fun. Right? Like when I can just show up to talk, like we're doing right now and we've always found that with Musings and Magic. That's partially why we created it is because it is so easy and enjoyable for us.

But yeah, it's very different when you are showing up to your podcast to create a solo episode. Like the podcast industry, the coaching industry really instills in, I think, all of us that there needs to be value and it needs to be organized and need to have a passion and to sell and searchable like SEO mainly cast title and oh my god if you try to follow all those rules all those shoulds in creating a podcast like creating a podcast one is gonna be that much harder two it's gonna take you that much longer to actually start doing it

because the learning curve is real and three it's something we're gonna be fun so like the whole purpose of you probably wanting to speak into a doing it because the learning curve is real and three, it's something really going to be fun. So like the whole purpose of you probably wanting to speak into a microphone about something is literally going to be like sucked out of you. So yeah, coming full circle, I'm very proud of how I've been showing up my podcast and want to continue showing up in that way because it does make it more fun and enjoyable. And I'd like to believe that that energy is felt on the receiving end, right? Because I'm not showing up to something that's forced or anything like that.

Yeah, yeah, and that's really what I've leaned into too is, yeah, not forcing it. And I think if I tried to stick to some kind of like consistent schedule right now in this season of my life where again, I don't have child care, I'm mainly a stay-at-home mom right now still, but I'm also running a doula business and have active clients and all of these things are happening and like my capacity feels still really stretched a little bit. But yeah it would be so forced if I tried to really stick to somebody else's definition of consistent right now and I know we've talked about that in previous episodes too. Yeah, all the time. I also just want to name here that like, when you show up to the energy or the frequency

of consistency with kind of like that dogma and that like, the rules around it, right? If you've rule-ified, if that's even a word. I like it. Yeah, rule-ified. If you've rule-ified like what consistency looks like, then I'm curious, like at what point is it just performance, right? At what point are you actually just performing

to fit into these rules and these boxes that you've created for yourself as opposed to just actually reflowing? And this actually really- Your energy, your capacity, your intuition, your desire, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. This really like ties into... So back in the fall, I did this like balanced woman hormone program with Dr. Annie, who's

amazing. Everybody should do it if you're wanting to spruce up your nutrition and build some good habits, hormone friendly, all of that. But I think my biggest takeaway from that was I used to be a very much, very much an all or nothing person. So it's either I work out every day of the week and if I miss a day, I'm off the rails and I have a really hard time getting back on. But what I learned from that program, I really got to redefine what consistency looked like

for me when it comes to healthy eating and exercise. And to do that, I had to like really, it's hard to explain. Like I now when I look at consistency, I'm not just looking at a week. I'm not just looking at a month. You have to really pan out really far and see almost like your whole year at a time and be like, okay, consistent means I haven't given up. And that might be really sporadic. Like consistency means I haven't given up. And that might be really sporadic. Like consistency means I haven't given up

and like completely thrown in the towel. So now I can apply that to even the podcast, right? Sure, I'm still putting out episodes. We're putting out using in magic episodes right now more than anything else and that's fine for this season. And eventually I'll get back to doing my interviews and like hopefully having some more solo episodes too.

That's my goal for this year, but loose goal when the capacity matches. But I'm consistent because I haven't given up. I think to translating that to business, it's looking at things through the lens of this as a long haul, right? We're not just sprinting our way to what we're doing. Hustling, sprinting. Yeah, it's a long game. And so what is it that you need to do or what kind of perspective shift do you need to give yourself or permission slips do you need to give yourself so that

your way of showing up to the thing is sustainable for the long game, right? If you were running a marathon, like the pace in which you would be taking your strides is going to be very different than the literal sprint, right? So like, how can we translate that to business and podcasting and like any kind of... And knowing that it's going to ebb and flow, right? Because we're not just maidens. Yeah, exactly. And even if we were, like, as women, we're menstruating humans, so we're cyclical beings.

We're also, even if you aren't menstruating, we're cyclical beings with the lunar cycle. And there's just so many things that are making our rhythm and our pace not linear. We're all still subscribing to the rules around linear growth. And the shame and the guilt around linear growth and when it doesn't look that way. Or yeah. Yeah. Okay. Anyways, coming back to what we wanted to record.

Part of our conversation was talking about how I want to say obviously, but it shouldn't be obviously, because maybe it's not everyone's experience. But for Lauren and I, as moms, as business owners, there's this chronic and sneaky feeling of being behind. And then we dissected that a bit and we're like, but it's not like we know that like only we can define our own timeline Like it's not actually that we believe we're behind what's actually more true is like this this feeling of

Lost potential and disappointment of not getting as much done as we wanted to And that kind of brought us into this conversation around shoulds versus coulds. So we've all been on this journey of being more aware of our shoulds and when we're shoulding on ourselves and all of that. But what about the coulds? What about the coulds? Yeah, like I could be doing more. I could be working on this.

I could be spending this time doing these things. Yeah, so let's talk about the difference a little bit because the shoulds are, there's this like expectation to them and it's sometimes an external expectation, sometimes an internal. A should feels more external. And I can, again, because I've done some deconditioning work, I can see where the shoulds are coming from. I can see that it's something outside of me, someone that has potentially instilled this belief in me that I should do this. It's an expectation and that feels outside, that feels like an external pressure.

But for me, when I feel into a could, the could feels more intrinsic and it feels like this like potential and this like possibility. And so yeah, there's loads of disappointment when I don't meet that. Yeah. Yeah. Like even a perfect example for me, like this last week, like I was saying, feeling a little more low energy than normal. So we put Zoe to bed in the evening and then I literally am like laying on the couch and watching TV and that's all I have the capacity for right now and that's fine and dandy, but then those coulds kind of sneak in. I could have done this. I could have used that time. There's all these things that I'm excited about and I want to do and I want to work on. So yeah, it's this like

internal, like you're saying, intrinsic kind of pressure almost or... The example you just gave was something in the past. I could have done this. And so it's like the disappointment of not doing something. I think another way that it sneaks in is like in a present moment, that overwhelm of having to make a decision. I could do this and this. Yes. How do I pick when I have limited time, limited capacity?

What do I do first? When there's a little bit of maybe neuro spicy stuff going on as well, that can be additional, like exceptionally hard. I'm just thinking of like those moments of paralysis where I'm like walking back and forth in my kitchen. Do I do this? Do I do that? Where do I start? And then my brain implodes and I do nothing. Yeah. And I think the present moment could maybe sometimes does show up with some external pressure. Because again, thinking of an example for me, when I'm going through, when I have a

moment of a choice point of, okay, I could do this and this. I feel like I'm not shoulding on myself anymore because I've already weeded out the shoulds. So now the options in front of me are things that I have decided I do want to do, these would feel good. But then in the process of discerning and choosing, the external projections sneak back in. What's the best use of my time here?

Or what would be perceived as the most productive? Or what would give me the most praise? Or what would give me the most praise or what would give me like in business what's the most efficient way to make money or right like. Yeah and being aware of those stories I think is what's like the gold mine here is paying attention in those moments to what are the stories that are coming up. Yeah what are the beliefs that are driving what I'm choosing or not choosing? Yeah, and then for me, I've been already reflecting on the fact that the word ambition

feels a little bit triggering and confronting for me, and I've dissected that a bit. And I think what comes up for me is deep down, I feel ambitious, right? I feel like an ambitious person. There's lots of things I want to do. I don't actually know what the core definition of ambition is. I just looked it up. What is it? I'm actually curious. What is it? It says having or showing a strong desire and determination to succeed. Fuck yeah. I'm ambitious. 100%. I'm ambitious. The problem is in the online space, in the corner of the internet that I exist in, potentially the echo chamber that I put myself in, I'm ambitious, 100%. I'm ambitious. The problem is in the online space, in the corner of the internet that I exist in,

potentially the echo chamber that I put myself in, all I'm seeing is ambition with extraction. And hustle. Yeah, hustle. Yeah, like I'm seeing ambition synonymous with basically like the boss babe hustle and drive culture. Masculine, yeah. And that just makes me wanna throw up in my mouth. synonymous with basically like the boss babe, hustle and drag culture. Yeah.

And that just makes me want to throw up in my mouth. So I don't actually want to be ambitious if that's what ambitious means. Yeah, and it's funny, like when we actually look at that definition, yeah, I have a strong desire and determination to succeed, but it's going to look different. Yeah. In the season of life. Like I refuse to succeed at certain costs.

And I think the way ambition has been modeled to us is it's like success at any cost. And it's a certain definition of success. That's the other piece is that we have redefined what, yeah, like we've redefined what success looks like for us. Yeah. Yeah, like these are the things that come up when you're trying to live a more embodied life

and build a business from a place that's much more sustainable and true to, yeah, like your cyclical nature to a more like masculine, feminine, balanced approach. Because I think when we talk about Feminine embodiment or a more feminine approach to business. It's also not not having any masculine Structure because I think people get we've talked about that before too Yeah, but yeah like how to blend them and again when there's no one or very few people to look to it's hard when you're the one

Kind of leading the way and carving your own path. We were reflecting on this too, where the duo, the birth worker communities that we have existed in or witnessed from the sidelines are kind of just- And even the business coaching world as well. But I think specifically, I'm just pointing towards birth workers and duos because we're working on a program for birth workers, duos, and mother serving professionals. So this is a little like plug for us to explain why Lauren and I are so different and why

this program is so different is because I think so many of the other programs are just regurgitating like aspects of this hustle and grind success at whatever cost narrative in a really sneaky and disguised way. Yeah. There's, and we're not going to name names, but there's people out there that are, I feel like most of the coaching industry is basically monetizing off of, look at all the things that I can do, I'm going to show you how to do it. And nobody's talking about, okay, you're doing all those things, but at what cost?

What sacrifices are you having to make? What compromises are you making? Where are you potentially extracting yourself? Are you actually like having dinner with your kids every night? Are you actually like taking care of your body? Are you like, where's the embodiment behind the things that you are teaching? And why are you doing it? What is your why? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I lost my train of thought there. I was good. Sorry. Sorry. That's my fault.

Where was I going? I think just shining light on what we're seeing in the Dula birth worker. Yeah, and how we're different. How we're different. And so what Lauren and I are really passionate about and living and breathing in our own lives is that embodiment piece, right? How do we embody our work? And I truly believe that embodiment is our best marketing, but how do you get there,

right? And how do you also discern and dissect and move through all of the shoulds and the coulds and the learning that you've potentially done about what it means to be a quote unquote good entrepreneur, what it means to be a quote unquote good copywriter, what it means to quote unquote have a successful podcast, right? There's all these rules that we assign to ourselves from all the different things that we're consuming. And then that's when when the good girl conditioning

potentially sneaks in, if that resonates with you, right? That need to be good or do right, the fear of not doing something wrong, the fear of failure, the fear of being misunderstood, the fear of perception, all of that sneaks in. But how are you actually showing up to your work, to your craft, to your medicine, to your life? Yeah.

And this is what's missing from so many, like, my co- like, coaching certifications, doula programs, like, all of it, any of it. Business building programs. It all comes at it from such a hustle and grind approach. And sure, they might be really great at giving you the knowledge and skills that you need to do the work, but then I always find there's this big gap of, okay, now how do I build the business? And that's where our program comes in.

It's like you've done the certification, you have the skills, it's time to actually show up and do it, but do it in a way that is embodied, is sustainable, is regenerative even, is coming from your overflow, not from depletion. And how to do it in a way that is truly embodied, there's not a better word. Where you're living and breathing, your values and your integrity is leading the way. Integrity, that's the word that we haven't used yet in this conversation, because that's what it is. It's integrity. Because I think even embodiment, yes, it's embodiment, but I think embodiment is becoming such a buzzword. And we are goodgirling our way into embodiment.

We're seeing it as this final destination that we have to perfect. Ticket off. Once we get there and yet we get to ticket off the list, we get a prize, we get a gold star at the end, and that's not true. Embodiment is a verb. How you live and breathe. Yeah. It doesn't have a finish line.

There's no final destination of embodiment. I think the other thing too is like that piece around integrity, again, what's being modeled to us out there is like this constant ultimatum of you can have wild success, but you can't build your business in integrity or like you can have, it's almost like you can't have your cake and eat it too and maybe Lauren and I are saying you can't.

I don't know. We don't make any promises, but I think we're just wanting to invite other people into this like third space and begin to illuminate some of the gaps because these gaps are actually really harmful and toxic, not just to those of us building our businesses in that way, but for the people that we are in service to, right? Our clients, our, the women that we serve, the mothers that we serve, the community. And then there's that ripple. And that's where I get really jazzed because I see this ripple effect, right? So the way that we show up, our embodiment, our level of integrity ripples out to our

client, to the person that we're in service to, and then that ripples out to the person's family and their community. And it's just this limitless ripple. And that goes both ways. You're standing from this place of harm that you probably don't even know is harmful. You're just perpetuating this secretly harmful narrative. I wish I had an example of this. I want an example right now to really help paint that picture.

I think an example would be around productivity and consistency, right? If you as a business owner, you as a do a birth work or a coach, if you are modeling to your clients this kind of hustle and grind in a really subtle way, that's just normalizing for them. That's what they need to do too, because they're looking up to you. We are influencers. And I think that a really important thing to name here, because I think so many of us are not wanting to be an influencer, but we are constantly role models to our

community, to our clients, to our peers in the industry, to our own families. We are constantly role modeling something. So what is it that you want to model? And I think rest is a really good example of this, especially for the doulas out there, right? Like we're constantly trying to tell our clients, like rest is so important, rest is productive. You need to rest.

And then we're running these businesses like from burnout and not giving ourselves, not taking our own medicine. When I just think that there's a shift that wants to happen and that we can, we get to be a part of where if we want to change that cultural narrative around rest for mothers, postpartum women, whoever, then it needs to start with how we are, like you say, influencing, how we are modeling that. And we get to have businesses that, yeah, that's the starting point. And how we live our lives, that's the starting point. Yeah. Yeah, I love that. I feel like we should make a note and try to actually make a list of

some of those things that we have the privilege and honor of getting to model, right? Because rest is one like, Nourishment. All of those things. We could create a whole episode or workshop or something on that. Cause I think that is really important to name. Yeah. Yeah.

And that's a big one. Like I think I mentioned it in a story before on Instagram about nourishing myself and preparing my food to bring to a birth with me. And I have so many other doulas reach out and be like, oh my gosh, yeah, I don't take care of myself well at all at birth. Like I show up and I don't bring food and I'm starving by the end of it and then my feet hurt and it's just,

how can we take such good care of someone else when we're not even taking care of ourselves? And that is such a big piece of this embodiment. We need to embody the wisdom that we're trying to give to others. And it's not that you have to be perfect. It's not that it's none of that, but it's paying more attention to how am I showing up? How am I influencing?

Like you said, again, that word, yeah, like it's definitely an icky word, but when you shift it to being, yeah, it's like how you're modeling behavior, how you're modeling. And we really are all influencing the people around us. So yeah, yeah, this kind of leads in. So we're hosting a free call later this month called, yeah, Reclaim the Art of Holding Space. It's 10 essential practices for mother-serving professionals who are reimagining a shift in the way mothers are cared for. And yeah, this is- I mean, this is it, right?

Like, it's that embodiment piece, but like, how are you holding space for yourself to hold space for others? Obviously, we're not going to give away our list of 10. You have to come to the call to learn those things. But if you're intrigued by this conversation so far, definitely come to that call because our intention there is to illuminate some of the gaps in your own approach right now to your business and your self-care and your self-nourishment and to not like shame you or make you feel bad about where you're at, but to bring awareness there because once we have awareness,

we get to disrupt the pattern. Then you get to see, oh, I actually have choice here. I can do things differently. And coming back to this language of being an influencer and that like stacredness of being a role model in literally everything you do just invites you to bring more intention to your work. And again, like Lauren said, this isn't about perfectionism. If anything, it's showing, expressing your imperfection.

It's bringing your humanity, your humanness back into your business and really disrupting that power imbalance that I think, again again the coaching industry is normalizing. We're literally actually, Hanjun, come along for this ride if you can. I shared in my group chat the other day with my cohort for my breathwork training. I basically said, hey y'all, in case anyone needs to hear this, we don't have to certify. Yes, this was a breathwork certification, but we don't have to certify. And I reminded myself and the group that our worthiness to be a breathwork facilitator has nothing to do with the piece of paper at the end.

What's actually more important is the confidence and conviction to be a facilitator. And that comes with learning the skill, the training. So in this case, have you done the modules? Yeah, cool. Have you gotten the practice in? Yeah, cool. Do you feel ready? That's what it's about. It's again, the embodiment and the integrity of the skill that you are potentially creating. It's not about the piece of paper at the end.

And then I also named how again in the coaching industry, it's almost everyone is monetizing off of women's imposter syndrome, right? Because we're all walking around feeling like imposters were not good enough. So boom, here's a certification, like basically being sold to you, because it's gonna take away that feeling when really it's just like to you because it's going to take away that feeling when really it's just like perpetuating it and it's gross. Yeah. Yeah.

And breaking that cycle of never feeling ready or worthy to do something because another certification and other training isn't going to fill that gap for you. What's going to fill the gap is your own embodiment. Yes. Because holding space isn't just about what you say or do. And I think we get so hung up on that. Oh, I don't know what I'm going to say. I don't know what I'm going to do in session or however it is you hold space

for another, but what we're getting at here is that it doesn't matter what you say or do or it does, but it's about who you are. It's about how you show up in the nuance of real human experiences and how you hold your own center while holding the energy of another nervous system. Because like we're saying, like holding space is about presence, it's about connection, and it's about integrity. And it's not just with your clients, but also with yourself. And if you're hung up on the, what do I say, saying the right thing, doing the right thing, that's just another sneaky layer of performance, right? That's you disembodied from yourself

and trying to be something. You're not trying to please someone else, which is potentially meaning you are dishonoring or extracting or betraying yourself, your truth in some way. And I was going somewhere. Oh, I think just, yeah, we get hung up on trying to say the right thing. And I think this shows up as performance in a way before you're even with the client, because it's in your marketing where you're like, this is a safe space or this is a blah blah blah or I'm a safe person. I'm, whatever it is where you are trying to sell yourself as something, I don't really

care what the words say. I want to know how you actually are. Yeah. Yeah. You have to show that, which is why like embodiment is your best marketing because... Yes. Amazing copy is potentially just like a bait

and switch for your client. And that's disgusting. Like we don't do that here. Yeah. And like a perfect example of this. And it's a hill I will die on and you're going to laugh because I talk about this all the time. Yeah.

But I've had coaches who have literally taken my private messages to them without consent, slapped it on a story, like half scribbled out my face and presented it to their Instagram as a way to sell their product or to use it as a testimonial and that immediately causes a rupture for me,, that might be different for others and that's fine. But for me, it's like a boundary crossed. Safety is out the window. So don't come at me and say you're a safe person, you're this, you're that. And then do something like that to me and break trust.

And especially when it's identifiable information. Like if you're a coach, a spaceholder, like you need to know these things. This is part of holding space, of being a good facilitator. It's part of that art of holding space. And while our program isn't really teaching you, it's not really teaching you skills so much. It's more teaching you, how do I explain this? Yeah, it's, it's going to help you know that is wrong.

Like, know in your body. It's not really teaching you the skill, but it's helping you you know that is wrong. Like know in your body. It's obviously teaching you the skill, but it's helping you to flex that discernment muscle to move away from like self betrayal. Because I think what I wanna try to make clear here is like any time you are doing or saying something that isn't actually truthful to you and like your current reality, your current capacity, your current

felt experience, like that's performance and that's gross. That is disembodiment, that is like not showing up in integrity, that is you trying to please, that is you trying to appease, that is you trying to fit in, gain approval, be praised, get a client, right? You're trying to like, oh, like, I mean, it's subtle, right? It's not like you're walking around like with your peacock feathers out. It's subtle. And I think this is why we're so passionate about it because we don't even realize we're doing it because it's the water we're swimming in. Right?

It's being passed down to us from all the business coaches, even the ones that say they're feminine embodied and spiritual, they're just bro marketing, disguised in a dress, it's being passed down to us in the popular doula training. We've been there, we've seen it, we've experienced it and it's harmful. It's harmful to ourselves, like our souls expression, it's harmful to our client, it's harmful to literally our entire ecosystem around us and like the ecosystem of our clients because like I said, there's that ripple effect. Yeah. Yeah. So this is for... Yeah, I know, it's a lot. But yeah,

this is for mother-serving professionals. It's for the ones with the bleeding hearts, who are curious, who are compassionate, and who are actively reimagining a new way forward. And you might be at any phase of this. Like maybe you're already- Yeah, I'm glad you said that because you named how like a part of our program and a part of this free class is potentially for those who maybe have just finished the training or certification and they were promised like you would be able to do all these things and now you're like drowning, oh my god, like I don't know what I'm doing. It's for you, but it's also for you if like you are seasoned in your craft and in

your medicine, and maybe you're at this point where you want to quote unquote scale your business, but you just don't want to do it the way it's always been done because you know that's going to force you out of integrity. It's going to force you to do things that don't feel true for you. And so you're designing your craving another way. Yeah. And like you want disclosure, we don't have the other way, but we wanna talk it out with you

and help you find it for yourself. Yeah. Yeah, this isn't prescriptive. This isn't more of the same. This is a very co-created, that's gonna be unique to you in your business, in your capacity. And we're gonna be there guiding you.

Yeah. So if you're a doula, a birth worker, a coach, a mother circle facilitator, a nutritionist, like any, anyone that's working with mothers, if you're a mother serving visionary, you have big dreams. You, yeah, you don't want to just say the right things. You're ambitious. You want to succeed in your own way on your own definition.

Maybe you wonder, am I saying the right things? Am I trauma-informed enough? And you want your presence to actually be the medicine. Your presence to be the medicine, not what you're saying. Maybe you're feeling invisible online, like your work is deeply needed, but no one's signing up. Yep, been there.

Yeah. And like you want to serve from overflow, not depletion. Or maybe you're just starting to think about these things. Or I think too, because again, like, I feel like when we, I think in our hearts, we know, yeah, I want to serve from overflow. But if we are in this chronic state of depletion, hi, hi, it's me. The question is, how do I show up then? How do I show up if so many things feel extractive?

And I think it's really important to have that conversation. And again, I don't have the answers. I'm in the process of figuring that out, but it comes down to embodiment. It comes down to knowing, living, breathing your values, not extracting yourself, like really always coming back to integrity as your compass. And what is my truth here? How do I not abandon and betray from my truth and my felt experience in this moment?

And that's not being modeled. That's why we need to be talking about it. That's why we need to have this space to play around with it. And yeah, like it's 100% possible. I believe that in my bones it's possible. It also requires us to redefine success, right? Because I'm going to guess that almost everyone listening to this isn't necessarily going after success the way society has defined it for us.

So it's getting really clear about what is success to you? What are the goalposts that you're going after? has defined it for us. So it's getting really clear about what is success to you, what are the goalposts that you're going after, because if you don't have that defined, then you're never going to feel satisfied, you're never going to feel fulfilled, you're never going to feel like you've done enough. Yeah. And this is the kind of stuff that it's hard to do on your own. It's, yeah, it's the kind of stuff that needs a little bit of guidance, a little bit of community. Yeah, to have these deep, nuanced conversations. There's just

doesn't seem to be much space for that right now. So that's what we're really wanting to create here, both with this free class and with our larger program, which I don't think we've told anybody that we changed the name. No, I don't think we've told anybody that we changed the name. No, I don't think we have either. Yeah, so we were calling it Embodied Mother Care. And yeah, we've just both realized that the better name for it is Held. So to be held in your experience, to be held in community, to be held through this. Yeah, and Held stands for the pillars of this program, which would be holistic embodiment and leadership and devotion.

So those are the pillars that we really want to center and anchor into and live and breathe in everything that we do. And yeah, of course, just the actual name of HELD is you do all the space holding, but who's holding space for you? And spoiler, like one of the 10 essentials of holding space for mothers is making sure that you have space held for you. So we're gonna talk about that too.

And what does that look like? Yeah, if any of this is intriguing, then come to this free class. It's free, it's April 29th at 1 p.m. PST, 4 p.m. EST. It's live on Zoom. A recording will be sent to those that register. So yeah, if you want to be a better spaceholder, if you want to reclaim the art, you are already a spaceholder. Right, this is not about good, bad, wrong, better, best. And also, like we said, like we really want to invite you to see this spectrum and begin

to identify where you're at on this spectrum so that you can, coming back to that definition around ambition and growth and just wanting to be a better human to regenerate a better world, like that requires us to do things differently. And we can't do things differently until we shine light on what we're already doing. Where the gaps are. Yeah, yes.

Amazing. Okay, yeah, free class, April 29th, come. And then we'll have all the links in the show notes. And then of course, formerly embodied mother care now called Held is starting in June, and we have, excuse me, the secret early bird enrollment going on.

So if you want in at a really good price, message, floor under I, for details on that. Yeah, hope to see you there. Okay, bye my friend. This was a good one. Bye. Yeah, talk soon.