REWILD + FREE - MUSINGS + MAGICK: Shifting Identity, Celebrating Neurodivergence, and Navigating Chaos (JANUARY FULL MOON WITH LAUREN AND NICOLE)

Episode Date: January 13, 2025

We’re back!!! Lauren and I finally press record after a six-month break from recording together. In this episode, we share updates on our lives, including meeting in person for the first time, camping adventures, and Lauren’s transition back into nursing. I delve deep into my family's discovery and acceptance of autism, discussing my daughter's diagnosis for the first time publicly,  and the subsequent journey of self-exploration and dismantling ableism. The conversation touches on the challenges and beauty of having neurodivergent traits, the personal development that comes with it, and the power of being seen and validated in complex experiences. We explore the significance of community, support systems, and the nuances of navigating life with newfound identities and labels.This episode invites you to explore what identities or labels you might be clinging onto and guides you to embrace devotion instead of discipline as we continue forward in the new year..Resources mentioned: The Balanced Woman hormone health program with Dr. Eni DPT.Connect with Nicole on IG (@nicolepasveer) Connect with Lauren on IG (@nestandnourish) .Join us live at our upcoming Musings + Magick virtual women's circle January 29 at 2pm MST | Exchange $33

Welcome to Musings and Magic. I'm Lauren Fortuna Flock. I'm a mother, doula, the host of the Well-Nourished Mother podcast and a somatic matrescence guide. I support mothers through the waves of intensity motherhood brings so they can fall in love with the mother they are and the mother they're becoming. And I'm Nicole Pasvir, a mom, wife, and host of the Rewild and Free podcast. I help women awaken beyond the conditioning that's been keeping them pretty perfect and pleasing so that they can live more consciously, mother intuitively, and grow their business holistically. We've never met in real life, and we live 700 miles apart. But we've been holding space for each other virtually since 2022,

when we found each other in super similar seasons of life. Yeah, we were both in our retiring from a super secure nursing job, in the thick of postpartum, and starting a heart-led business era. We found ourselves chatting for hours on Zoom almost weekly, having the deep, why-isn't-anyone- isn't anyone talking about this conversations around all things motherhood and conscious entrepreneurship. So we started recording these unfiltered and unscripted conversations to bring you this co-created series. We're inviting you in with deep trust that you'll receive whatever insight, wisdom, or solidarity you need in this season, because we all know motherhood and

entrepreneurship are lonely as fuck. Yeah, we're blending our musings with a touch of magic the kind of woo-woo more spiritual witchy stuff that we're both so curious about but don't fully relate to yet our intention is to invite more ritual into our lives so we're using this series to anchor into the cycle of the moon, meeting on the full and new moons of each month. We'll do an energy check-in and explore nuanced conversations around big topics related to cyclical orientation, feminine embodiment in business and motherhood, and our own personal explorations related to reclaiming our inner witch. So if you're ready to come laugh, learn, and reflect with us, then keep listening. But first,

we invite you to take the deepest breath you've given to yourself yet today. And when you're ready to come laugh, learn, and reflect with us, then keep listening. But first, we invite you to take the deepest breath you've given to yourself yet today. And when you're ready, let's go. If only everyone could see the faces we both just made when we hit record. Frozen. Frozen. Hey, how do we do this? this yeah what are we doing hello there remember us it's been a while yeah nicole and lauren i feel like this is extra awkward for us in this moment because we were just on the phone together so we were already talking and so trying to do a fake hello hello, how are you, would be super. We're just going to skip that part.

Yeah, we are. We did this look at our last episode that was last June. That was like over six months ago, which is crazy. That is crazy. That's a long time ago, but it doesn't feel that long ago. It really doesn't. It really doesn't. So much has happened and unfolded since

then so I suspect that's probably what we'll talk about we could just start with that what is the last six months been like for you and me and us we got together we've we we've met we are no longer just online friends we've met in person twice now since that recording. So for the first time we met, our families went camping together. You and your family were on a, what was it like a two week long road trip? And we found kind of closest meeting point to me.

And so me, Dylan and Aubrey, we got a motor home this summer. So we drove the motor home with our dogs and of course Aubrey and we met a motor home this summer. So we drove the motor home with our dogs and of course Aubrey. And we met you guys and that was incredible. Yeah, it was so fun. Yeah, we met at a campground and camped for two nights, I think. It was raining a lot, but it was...

But eaten alive by mosquitoes. Yes, oh my gosh. Eaten alive by mosquitoes. Eaten alive. Yeah, they were awful. But it was so fun. the girls loved playing with each other no it was really good and then obviously it was only two nights so we parted ways and that was bittersweet and I think we both had a moment shortly after that of oh that was almost worse

because now we know what it's like to be in each other's physical energy so we see each other even more yeah yeah so true yeah and I remember just feeling just staring at you and I could feel my brain putting all of these pieces together of all these you know we have these deep conversations I feel like you know me better than some of my closest friends that I see all the time. So it was super weird to just like stare at you and put all of that knowledge. And I don't know, it felt weird. It felt weird to put a real human face and body. But I think we both had a moment of now that you know me in real life, do you still want to be my friend? Do you still like me? And we also both shared the reflection of yes you're exactly who

I thought you'd be you are a living embodiment of all the things that you portray yourself as online so that was beautiful and refreshing because obviously that's not the case for for all relationships right and that's not the case for a lot of people, unfortunately, that are showing up online. They are a different person in real life. So thank you for being who you say you are. You too. Oh, modern friendship, man. So cool. And then, yeah, so that was in August, right? I can't believe we haven't talked about that. Like we haven't shared. I can't believe it's been since June. That is wild. But yeah, so. Oh my God, so much has happened in both of our lives since, since then. I can't even, I need to go find my agenda. I can't even think back to it. Lauren, you're a nurse again.

Oh, yeah. I haven't really shared much about that either. Sorry. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, good old nursing union has me back to work. Got a similar job back. Got my seniority back. So that was a whole experience to go through to be like, hey, I have this opportunity to get my job back.

So then I had to go through the motions of getting my license back because I let that go as well. Like I fully thought I was done with nursing. I like hung up that hat, you know, and let go of that identity. And that was such a process of disentangling all this stuff from the last, you know, five years or whatever it's been since all of that. But yeah, it's been really great. Overall, it's been really awesome to be back. I love my job. I love the type of nursing I do. I love being a nurse and I love, you know, being with other people in that way. Like I didn't realize how much I missed it, but one of my first shifts back, I got to spend so much time with this 90 year old woman and we just chatted. And of

course I did her like wound care and things that needed to be done, but yeah, nursey things, but I got to just hang out and I like forgot how much I love just interacting with people in that way. And yeah, it's been really great to be back. But like the first day, I felt like I had to scoop out cobwebs from my brain. Like it felt just wild. I was like, wow, I have not had to use this part of my brain in a very long time. But it is all back now. But it's been a process. Witnessing you in the journey of even coming to the decision of going through all of the motions that you had to go through was really incredible to

watch because I mean I think we've we've named this in in conversations outside of this recording that like it it was as if you were getting control back like instead of the door being shut on you you now get to decide when you want to close that door and really this reclamation of like your autonomy and sovereignty in the context of this career choice right so again instead of it being taken away from you you get to decide when you want to hang that hat up and I know I've spoken to you like since you've been taking some shifts which by the way like you're just casual this isn't like your full gig you know super. I haven't worked in like a month, but. Well, and even that, like that decision around that was so beautiful because you,

you very clearly set the intention of this gets to fuel my passions, right? This gets to be how I get to afford doing further trainings around matrescence and the nervous system and and doula birth stuff right and I think that's really important to name and normalize that yeah I don't know there's we are allowed to have different streams of income and different pathways in that sense right yeah and like I I'm really kind of going back into it with such a different mindset. Like you said, yeah, I'm taking my power back a little bit and like, it's not my whole career now. Now it is a job that I love and that I'm good at and I will do good work, but I'm, I'm super casual. I get to go when I want to. And I'm just, I'm there to do the job and to come home

and focus on the rest of my life. Whereas before it was like, you know, I want to climb whatever possible ladders there are. I want to be the best. I want to, it's just not that anymore for me. And that was part of what was so hard about making this, the decision to even go back was like, I lost so much respect for the nursing profession as a whole during that whole COVID time. So I just, I still have a bit like a lot of bad tastes in my mouth. Anyways, point being, it's been a wild ride, like the whole thing, the whole process of coming to terms with letting go of that identity and then now going back to it in a different way, but going back to it. So, so yeah, I've got, you know, those little letters behind my name again, RN. Yeah.

And it's, it's been good so far. Well, and like the identity shift that comes with that, right? Because you had made peace with losing those letters behind your name and not having that be a big part of your identity anymore, instead of it being something like in the past, right? And then of course, almost like this, this feeling of whiplash probably to now come back into it and just the whole swirl and storm of emotions and stuff that that brings in. And this isn't the same, but for me, like I was going through my own like identity shifts. I don't remember if we talked about this. No, if it was, holy crap, if it was June, I, massive identity shift. I'm not just a stay the identity of of being a stay-at-home mom

right I I was really attached to the identity of being the sole caregiver and everything to my daughter and making the decision to to find child care outside of the home was such a mindfuck, such a mindfuck. And obviously we're what, six, seven months. Well, so she technically started in July and the summer, this is probably exactly why we haven't been recording because my life literally felt like it had to stop for a while. During that time I was on a social media break too, because literally I just was at capacity trying to navigate that season of motherhood. And yeah, the first three months of Aubrey being at daycare were really, really hard. She did not transition well or easy it was also really really hard on me just trying to make sense of who am I without her around and it was this like funny friction of emotions because I wanted it I wanted more space and time to pour into myself and my business and then when I'd get it it still didn't feel good and that was so so confusing to sit with.

And you needed it. You were really in what looked like a burnt out place. I was. I did need it. And I'm really proud of myself for identifying that need because like I said, it was uncomfortable to even go there and it was an ego death and giant identity shift giant identity evolution but I think intertwined in all of that we were also navigating a uh

uh haven't spoken this out loud at all anything public so this feels big but Lauren and I talked about this before recording and I do want to start this. So we're just going to talk about it. So in the middle of all that, we were, well, me and my husband were kind of at a friction point of trying to decide if we wanted to pursue an evaluation for our daughter to see if she was autistic. And that was a big mindfuck for me too, because I'm a big believer in not believing in those labels and not wanting to participate in like that side of the medical system. And I guess more context and how all this kind of unfolded. So my mom, myself and Aubrey went on a little girl's trip back in May. And that was the first time that my mom had been and Aubrey went on a little girl's trip back in May and that was the first time that my mom had been around Aubrey for more than just an afternoon or an evening obviously she's

a very present granny but nothing longer than a couple hours and so this was like three full days together and towards the end of the trip Aubrey was like so dysregulated and also Aubrey was just being Aubrey none of this was abnormal for me it was exactly what I expected on the trip and my mom kind of approached me towards the end saying wow this is intense like first of all she she challenged me on my decision of holding the vision of wanting to be a stay-at-home mom and homeschool and run a business like I remember she kind of confronted that vision of mine she's like how are you going to do that like how and then in the same breath she also said have you considered that Aubrey might be on the spectrum and in that moment

I remember being really triggered being really activated and upset and almost betrayed. It's like, how could my own mom say that about her daughter's daughter? How could a granny say that about her granddaughter? And I don't remember us having much discussion of it in that moment, thankfully, because I think we probably, it wouldn't have been a good conversation. But coming away from that, I recognized that that activation, that trigger was actually because those were things that I had already been thinking and I had been suppressing and not really allowing myself to sit with and then for her to see it and activate it within me and almost validate it was like oh shit like I guess I do have to look at this I can't just tuck this away and pretend that it's not happening and for her her, my own mom, who like

knows me so well and knows my daughter so well, she's not just saying it to stir shit, right? She's saying it because she truly is well-intentioned and is curious, right? So to make a long story short in that, that really kind of got my gears rolling and opened up my heart and my mind to do a little bit more research and really just make more sense about what autism in a toddler girl even looks like. And honestly, yeah, that so that was in May, that also kind of amplified the decision to trial daycare, because we really didn't know how Aubrey was around other kids. We've been pretty isolated and I totally get why because of all of the things that we've been dealing with that we didn't

necessarily have language for why we were dealing with them. Like it all makes sense now because spoiler, she does have autism. But in that kind of moment of trying to make all these decisions, some of the data that I think would have been helpful in confirming a diagnosis was to have a better understanding of like how she is socially with kids her age. And we didn't really have that data on top of me being burnt out and really needing a break. So there was those, that mixture of things that really led us to, okay, let's find like an aligned childcare provider of some sort. And that was really hard too, because I didn't think I wanted daycare. I think I wanted a day home and then blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Anyways, we really got lucky on the daycare we found. It was like just a perfect

storm of events. We're very, very lucky to this day. Very, very lucky. So much gratitude for where she is right now. But in that decision-making process, it was also really illuminating for my mom and I, because the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. And so as we were learning more about what autism looks like in toddler girls, we were also learning about just like autism in women and like, high functioning. That's not the correct use of language but like more high functioning autism right like autism isn't just a non-verbal boy obsessed with trains and I will admit that was the only kind of portrayal of autism that I knew and so to really start seeing the different flavors that it can show up as was really illuminating and like I, so my mom and I began to just uncover our own neurodivergence and all of that too.

And it's almost like Aubrey is just this beautiful mirror for us to see ourselves. And it's been this really incredible experience in understanding all of us at a deeper level and learning how to really accommodate our needs and our quirks in a way that I never would have had language for or been able to understand without pursuing the evaluation and getting the diagnosis and doing all the research I did but also like within all that it was also more ego deaths because obviously I've never identified as someone that's autistic before. And I never thought I'd be a parent of a child that's autistic. And yeah, I don't know.

I mean, I feel like I could go on and on and on. But this kind of segues into just more of our journey together because there was actually a moment I think actually I I didn't share any of this with you until leading up to the evaluation and I said Lauren like I've been really scared to share this with you and I also don't want it to be something that like you find out after the fact and like I didn't tell you and sitting with the discomfort of sharing it was really interesting because it was very similar to when I was pregnant and planning a home birth and not wanting to share that because I didn't want to be talked out of it I didn't want to be talked out of this I already had such a hard time making the decision like my husband and I we had such a hard time making the decision of do we actually want an evaluation? Do we actually want this diagnosis? Do we want a report and a paper trail

attached to our daughter's name, right? Like there's a lot of weight that comes with that. And especially for a diagnosis that like, to this day, I don't even know if I agree with right I don't even know I don't see it through the same lens that like our family doctor does let's just put it that way right like it's yeah it's different and so yeah there was there was I guess in hindsight like a lot of shame and even making that decision and it was a invitation for me to really trust my gut and my intuition too because when we did have the evaluation with the child psychologist I remember even naming this to her that my biggest fear is that you tell me she isn't autistic because then I'm just going to feel like I'm crazy and this was the the big moment. This was the diagnosis. She's,

you don't have to worry about that. She never actually had a big formal diagnosis. It was like partway through the evaluation and she's, you don't have to worry about that. So that was my answer. But yeah, those months were really hard because I was tossing and turning literally every second of the day and was absolutely obsessed with consuming resources around autism especially in women and especially in like toddler girls so like books podcasts Facebook groups Instagram reels right? Anything to just kind of make sense of what our experience was. And I think just to kind of like tie this all together and like where I've been at basically since getting that confirmation in September,

that's when we got the diagnosis, is now trying to make sense of, okay, what does this actually look like going forward? Is this Aubrey's story is this something that I need to protect and not talk about is this something that I yeah kind of need to keep as a little secret in our family is this something that I should and could talk about through my own lens is this do I just talk about my own kind of now undiagnosed highly masked autism do I just talk about it through that and that never felt right because

it's not just that it's also been the journey of now being a mother to an autistic child and so it's been really hard trying to make sense of all that and trying to make the right decision. And I just named to you before recording this that I think what's been coming up for me is, is being in kind of the echo chamber and the corner of the internet that I am, there's a lot of moms that are very strongly in their opinions about not showing their child online. And I get why. And I've always kind of been on the fence there. And I think for me, the tiny part of me that felt like I needed to protect this for her was trying to please those and gain their respect and approval, which is so interesting to name out loud, right?

It was really just a should. And as soon as I recognized it as a should and actually was able to recognize that, no, there is actually this desire to share this part of our stories out loud, because I think a part of the problem with neurodivergence and autism specifically is that all we know is like I said that little boy that's non-verbal and is obsessed with trains so if we don't start widening our view of the many different flavors that autism can show up as it's going to continue to perpetuate the stigma and the ableism that's present in our world right now so it actually does feel really important to me that I start speaking about this from my experience and to model to Aubrey that this isn't something that we have to hide this isn't something that we're

ashamed of in fact this is actually something we're really proud of because it makes us really really cool human beings and it feels like a superpower some days. Yeah. Yeah. And that was like my question for you as you were trying to figure out even today, like if you should talk about this or not, what do you want Aubrey to think about this as she gets older? Right. And you don't want her to feel like she has to hide it or that it's something wrong. There's nothing wrong. Yeah. It's a beautiful neurodiversity. A big part of this journey for me is that that sense of wrongness that I have been carrying. And so, yeah, that that inner work of kind of dismantling the internalized ableism that I now have language for around autism. And I was naming this to you earlier too, because I don't, oh, how do I want to word this? I feel like so many people are talking about ADHD and that's

becoming more and more normalized. And I don't know, the permission field has just widened, nobody really bats an eyelash if you say, oh, I have ADHD. And I don't feel that way with autism. I think autism continues to kind of have a different stigma around it. And so I've just, again, been noticing my own internalized stories and beliefs that I've been holding around that. And it's been such a beautiful opportunity to, yeah, dismantle them and kind of disrupt disrupt the the the beliefs and the stories around that well I hope you're proud of yourself I was gonna say I'm proud of you but I hope you're proud of yourself for making the decision and yeah like thinking back to these last six months or more since May and just all of the difficult decisions you've had to make

and all of the, yeah, you've been in it. You've had a lot going on. I have been in it and it, yeah, it's funny because I kind of sit here and there's, there's a very deep desire to be seen and witnessed in all of that. So it means a lot that you're able to sit here and reflect that back to me that, yeah, like it's not just the diagnosis, it's everything that led up to that and the decisions and the inner friction that went behind all of that, right? But I think maybe there's a fear or a knowing that this isn't it's not a big deal right it's not a big deal yeah yeah but it feels like such a big deal for me because it literally has changed our lives so there's a desire to be witnessed in this life-changing moment of time for us and also it's not a big deal it's this weird yeah weird paradox

yeah yeah because it's not a big deal and it totally doesn't it doesn't change anything about anything right I'm still Nicole I'm still literally nothing changes if anything it just allows me to be more me it allows Aubrey to be more Aubrey yeah with added supports that are going to help her be more Aubrey yeah oh gosh that's been a whole other thing I totally did not intend to just talk about me this whole time but obviously yeah getting this diagnosis and being in an incredible daycare has given us access to some incredible supports. There's also access to government funding and other things like that. And obviously, Lauren and I are in Canada, so I don't know what it looks like for people that aren't in Canada. But there's been a lot of guilt, I guess is the right

word, in receiving that. I've noticed how quick I am to gaslight our experience and kind of like the mind chatter of, well, other people have it worse. There's more severely autistic people, kids out there that need more support or families that need more funding. And I totally can understand that that sentence was completely incorrect in every way but that's truly like the the story that I've had to work through in my head and really yeah just had to soften both Dylan and I have had to kind of soften into accepting support and being open to receive and feeling worthy to receive. So but we I the segue in all of this I think is so many people that that follow both of us have been asking because they they knew that I went oh yeah I went to go visit you in November. So so many people I know for me have been asking like oh how was your trip to go see Lauren and I know I was posting bits of it online and then I kind of just stopped because the trip was intense and I think I think to this day we're still trying to make

sense of it and it's nothing to do with like our relationship our relationship felt really good I think it was just one you got to witness me and Aubrey since this diagnosis right and so you got to witness who Aubrey is and all of her Aubrey-ness and then also just witnessing the dynamic of both of our daughters who are similar in age and just all of it it was dysregulated it was it was so wild it was what like 48 hours was it even longer than that we flew in morning and we left on a Friday evening so it was almost three full days two nights three full days but I think back I think maybe I'm not gonna put words in your in your mouth but kind of similar to my mom my mom only ever knew bits of Aubrey and you only ever knew bits of Aubrey. And so to get to witness

Aubrey and just the experience of me being Aubrey's mother in a more than three hour period is illuminating. Yeah, very, yeah, very illuminating. And, you know, having my own very strong-willed, opinionated, fiery toddler thrown in the mix as well was just absolutely wild. I don't even know how to explain the intensity of the two of them together because it's actually quite comical. It is comical, especially being out of it now. In the moment, I know it was difficult for both of us. And I remember saying to you on the trip this is exactly what I expected Lauren this is why we're only here for two nights because you want this to come longer I'm like no I don't think we can do longer I think two nights

is gonna be enough and I remember there was a moment we were driving to the beach and both girls were just screaming at the top of their lungs in the backseat. There were several moments. So Aubrey repeats herself a lot. And so I don't even remember what she was repeating in the car. And your daughter was just having, we were all having enough. But your daughter says what she doesn't have the adult maturity that we do to bite our tongue. So she was saying what we all felt and demanding Aubrey to stop and Aubrey can't stop.

And so we're sitting there like both of them are right. Your daughter's right for wanting Aubrey to stop talking and Aubrey's right for being Aubrey, right? Neither of them are wrong. And it was, yeah, it was just an interesting moment. It turned into a big screaming match between the two of them and you and I literally just sitting in the car. It's like my worst nightmare, honestly, because for me, it's auditory overstimulation and like whining and crying just throws my nervous system into fight right away. And we are so different in like our nervous system, natural states. Mine goes straight to fight and yours. I withdraw. So, oh, and I'm just thinking of the drive to the airport at the end. That was literally

my worst nightmare. Like the two of them are screaming at each other and it's just going around in a loop and neither one of them is going to stop. And neither one of them should stop because again, they're both right. One's repeating themselves and one doesn't want to hear it anymore and then Nicole shut down in the front seat and I'm like fuming in the I wanted to crash oh my god like it was my worst nightmare and like my body was just so dysregulated I wanted to run and yeah it was so bad and we were stuck in traffic. It was like an hour long of this. Yeah. Yeah. It was intense. It was very intense. I think what is cool in all of that though, because we're both well-versed in the nervous system and obviously

like nerd out on that stuff. I know we had multiple conversations of just like bringing context into the equation and like you had mentioned like you had been on this beautiful journey of eating more and exercising more and all the things and you had kind of stopped doing that because obviously having house guests in your home is dysregulated on its own and so to recognize that your capacity was shrinking because of the other things that you weren't doing to tend to yourself. Right. And so it was like this beautiful, just reminder of how important those other things are.

Yeah. And just like how many, how many different things go into your nervous system state? Yeah. It's not just, oh, I'm hearing loud noises and now I want a screaming child in the backseat. Yeah. I'm like, no, I want to punch something before now I want to... Yeah, a screaming child in the backseat. Yeah, like now I want to punch something. Before your coffee today and like sunlight in your eyes and did you see all of the things? Yeah, yeah.

But yeah, I think it was also like, like you said, you kind of knew what the trip was going to be like. I certainly had expectations. Like I couldn't wait to just, you know, put the girls to bed and then sit and chat and have a glass of wine. And that did not happen. I think we did have a couple good, you know, little amounts of time where we actually got to talk and have a nice deep conversation. But other than that, it was just both of us trying to survive and like not let the girls kill each other. Yeah. Well, because literally that, yeah, that's the thing is they are both so fiery that that is probably what it would turn into if there was an intervention what was funny and ironic and maybe annoying and confusing too was like when your husband would come home and how different his energy would be with the girls right and obviously like the combination of he isn't tapped out.

He's right. He's coming home with kind of a full tank to parent, but also just noticing, I think both girls, they're like. I don't even know what it is like that their energy shifted with him stepping in as a co-regulator, and I think that's really important and interesting to name too that I think as moms we get well one we are often the ones that are tapped out for so many different reasons but also I think our kids we're like that safe place for our kids and it's not that their dad isn't but it's just different right that mother-child relationship is different and so yeah I don't know what I'm trying to say. Maybe you have something to echo or pull out from that. Yeah, yeah. It was just interesting.

Yeah. Yeah. Because then they, you know, he'd come home and they'd go downstairs and the three of them would play together for a while and there'd be no screaming. Because we would explain to him how our day was and like he saw none of it and he probably thought we were just crazy and like lying. Yeah. And of course, I know that my own reactions certainly, you know, make my daughter's reactions even worse. I know that, but it still doesn't make it like easy to stop or to, you know, kind of break that cycle. Like it's hard. It's really hard, especially when it's that drip, drip, drip all day long. And yeah, it was, yeah. So was it a nice visit? It was, it was nice.

It was tough. It was tricky because again, like how we don't know how to navigate this. I don't know how to teach Zoe about autism. Like, I don't know the words to say. She's also three and a half. Like, I don't, yeah, I felt very almost helpless in those moments of like, how do I explain to her that? Yeah, maybe it's annoying to you and that's okay. But yeah, we can't just tell her to stop. We can't. Do we? I don't know. I, yeah, I mean, I felt the same way, right? Because yeah, we're witnessing the same things. And yeah, I'm not gonna get mad or right. There's nothing I can do to manage Aubrey in a different way. And you never made me feel like I should or I had to, but it's just a very complex situation.

And I think what was also really illuminating for both of us is like confirmation for you that you don't want any more kids and confirmation for me that I am not ready for another child yet. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, no, there is no way that I can handle another nervous system to deal with. Yeah. Yeah. And it was also just illuminating because again, there's nothing wrong with how any of it, there was nothing wrong, inherently wrong with, you know, how Aubrey was behaving. But it was illuminating to have a better understanding of what life has been like for you guys at home. And yeah, what kind of led to this summer of being burnt out? Like, I just have such a better understanding of, yeah, like how complicated and difficult it's been. Yeah. And I think that's where that desire to be seen and witnessed

comes from is to understand the complexity. And so it feels really good. I mean, you reflected that back to me on the trip too, as we were driving to the airport, but just to reiterate, it feels really good to be seen in that. And even that, that, that experience of, of desiring, it's almost like desiring validation. And I feel like that's something that I've judged myself for in the past of wanting validation, because I mean, I've been on this journey of, I don't need external validation, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it's also, but we are human, and it's our innate birthright and desire to be seen and recognized and accepted. And so I think that genuine reflection and the genuine witnessing and space holding that you offer is exactly the feeling that I want to be

feeling, right? I want to feel that like safeness of, yeah, like she sees the complexity here. She's not trying to fix it she's not trying to even make sense of it she's just being me and we all deserve that feeling yeah yeah and it's funny like I I've signed up to go to therapy I've never gone to a therapist I've never done counseling or anything like that I've been on the other end I've been a mental health nurse at one point for like university students for a short stint, but I've never, and I've learned about it. I know about different modalities and things like that, but I've never gone myself. And one of the perks of being a nurse again is that I get access to a mental health benefit. So I was like, well, there's no barrier here. I might as well use this.

And it's that same desire. Like I just want to well, there's no barrier here. I might as well use this. And it's that same desire. Like, I just want to be validated in my experience of how tricky motherhood is sometimes. Yeah. And yeah, like, it's not about, I don't, I'm not desiring a diagnosis. I don't think I have any kind of, you know, thing wrong with me. I'm just going because it's hard and I want to be able to talk about it. And I want to hear from somebody that like, yeah, yeah, this is normal to feel that way. You know, it's, it's true. Yeah. For us, that's, I suppose, partially what the diagnosis gave us, right? It was like, okay, you're not crazy. And the, the adaptations that you have had to make as parents, it all makes sense now. So for me, it's been this, yeah, almost this permission slip that I didn't know I needed, didn't even know I wanted,

but it's really helped us to both soften and strengthen our parenting values, I guess. And really the value has always been to follow Aubrey's lead, but there's also been a lot of like second guessing and self doubt in that. There's been a lot of, oh my God, is it our, for lack of a better word, relaxed parenting that kind of created her to be like this and it's no that was an adaptation that is intuitively how we had to respond to to survive and it's just really incredible to kind

of have that language and to be able to witness myself and my husband's experience and all of that like through that lens and going and pardon and going forward like it's a gift it's a gift now to have have language that we didn't have before yeah and yeah just that I did the whole idea of like validation like even in myself I think we're always striving like we always want to know why right like I want to know why I behave this way sometimes I want to know why I get so dysregulated so easily. I want to know why, you know, I fly off the handle if there's three different noises happening around me. And, you know, for me personally, I've been on this, you know, six month, probably longer, probably my whole adult life, but journey of exploring my own possible neurodiversity. But again, from this place of,

I want an answer. I want some validation. I want there to be a reason why I am like this. Which is that good? Is that not good? I don't know. But that's where I'm at. So yeah, my own exploration of my own neurodiversity. And I've know, I've had multiple people tell me at Lauren, I think you have ADD in my adult life. And yeah, just the more and more that I explore that and research it and look through things and, you know, assess myself like any good millennial does. Would do. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's becoming more and more clear that yes, I think that is the case here. And yeah, there's like a lot of validation that comes with that and a lot of, okay, now how can I support myself better? Like, how can I work with this? How can I,

instead of be constantly fighting against these quirks I have. Like how can I learn? Yeah. Yeah. And learn tools to, to harness it because same thing, like it's a super superpower as well. Like my ability to see and focus on so many things at once and have a very broad view and, you know, hyper-focus on things and yeah, all of the, the yeah. Stuff that comes along with it. But same thing, do I need to go and get a real diagnosis? I don't know. I haven't decided yet. At this point in my life, will it give me anything? I don't think so.

I don't want to go on medication and I don't need it for schooling assistance. So yeah. That was one of the tricky choice points in deciding to get a diagnosis for Aubrey is obviously she is young and the supports available to her are only available with the diagnosis so it was almost like we aren't even the supports not even like financial not even like related to like school or daycare but just like

any kind of support it's almost gatekept unless you have that diagnosis so that was a big deal for me this sucks like I have to fucking play with the system I have to play their game just to have this door be open for me and I mean that could be a whole other conversation too just around like the pathologizing pathologize pathologize pathologization why can't I say that yeah pathologizing pathologizing right that we're pathologizing things that don't need to be pathologized just like the world does with everything right yeah and this this fear of not wanting her to be stuck in just a different box right really my my intention is this gives her the permission to not try to squish herself in a box in a box box that she has no, no right to even belong in. None of us

should be stuck in that box. But my intention is this helps give her the language to, to not feel like she needs to be squished in a box. But there was fear that the diagnosis, the label that it gives her would just put her in another box. And I don't know where I'm going with that. I think just, yeah, to echo like what you were saying around, it's not about getting a diagnosis or getting this language to now have the understanding of like how to fix and how to control. It's really self-acceptance. Yeah. And what came to mind there is we're all searching for belonging in whatever ways, you know, and sometimes having a label is like a way to make yourself feel like you belong to something. I think that's gone really overboard in our society right now, but yeah.

Yeah. I mean, like really the last, what, six, seven months have been a really intense deep dive of like self-exploration. And like I said, like for my mom too, which has been incredible to witness her make sense of her own life and begin unmasking and begin accommodating herself and just in all the different facets that that that shows up in but like I said all of this is because Aubrey has been our mirror and what a gift that is too right we talk about all the time our kids being our mirrors but don't necessarily talk about what the ripple effect that ends up being yeah that's beautiful like it's beautiful truly yeah so yeah that's been the last six months I guess right so if you're wondering why we haven't been recording yeah I do like it I don't know like if people have been following my work it might make more sense too for some of the offers that I've

been creating and just kind of my the values that I am choosing to be a little bit more loud and bold around specifically around like decolonization and kind of dismantling white supremacy and the patriarchy and again kind of the through line and all of that like it's it's really cool because I almost see like my life unfolding in these chapters and we're coming up on the one year anniversary of me being fired for saying free Palestine online. And that was a catalyst for me to start dismantling like racism and white supremacy specifically in the coaching space and like how we show up online as white women and coaches. And so that was a really big deal for me. And again, it's one of those things where it feels like such a big deal for me, but people are just like watching me and it's not a big deal. But then this whole like autism

unraveling is now this, this invitation to dismantle ableism. And it's, I'm constantly being invited to just continue deconditioning and decolonizing my mind and my life from just the, the toxic systems that we live in and so that's become a huge value of mine in my business and the retreat that I was attempting to host that I'm likely gonna have to cancel the time of recording this it's Thursday there's one more day to join I don't know when we're gonna release this episode but like that that was all about coming undone from the limitations that have been keeping you small and keeping you from dimming your light and the intention and the core, like,

values and vibe and pillars around that offering still remain really, really significant and important and meaningful to me. And it's because it's literally like an extension and an embodiment of what I'm living in my life right now yeah and it's been so neat to witness you through this this launch and this newest offering and just yeah witnessing the the energy you're giving off around it it's yeah it's been really neat to witness yeah there's been a lot of shifts and it feels really different in a really good way yeah yeah like after all of that all last summer into the fall yeah where are you at now how are you feeling now as you know because it's January you know technically it's like woohoo the new year start start fresh. I don't really agree with that. I do think we're deep in a winter season, but I also agree with just following your body. And I think, again, given the context of last year,

it makes sense. It really feels like, I mean, obviously we've been conditioned to kind of use the years as ways to compartmentalize our life and our memories, right? You think of things and you kind of assign what year they belong to, right? So I was really leaning into that. And so not so much about new year new goals new resolutions it's none of that but it did really feel like turning the page and starting a new chapter and the the I don't know the blankness and mystery and excitement of that really does feel alive to me still I mean we're what two weeks one weekend I don't even know the date I have no idea nine yeah nine days in um so yeah like it did feel really I don't know what

I'm looking for it's not like I'm I'm starting a bunch of new things and trying to create new new things in my life and like a new identity and also I'm being really mindful and receptive with the multi-dimensionality of like my inner seasons right so yeah okay it is winter outside I should be resting I should be turning inwards. There's all the shoulds we could assign to that if all we're looking at is like that external season. But there's so many other moving parts to my life because I'm a full ass human. And so there's the season of motherhood I'm in, which absolutely is feeling more like spring like energy, maybe even summer. There's the season of business I'm in, which same thing, feels more spring and summer. There's my inner menstrual cycle, right? So obviously that's

shifting in a 28-day cycle. But the whole point is it's not just about winter and like shitting on myself because everything is dead outside. So that means everything must be, like, dead for me, to say it bluntly. Yeah. Nuance, baby. Right? Yeah. Our favorite thing to talk about. I think, too, like, I don't know. There's also a difference, I think, in the intention behind the intention, right? Is the intention to like the hype, I think, around like New Year goal setting is honestly, I don't even know because I've never really resonated with it. But New Year's resolution is something's wrong. We need to fix. We need to get better. We're not good enough. And that's not the energy I resonate with. So like when I am setting intentions, when I am setting goals and when I am kind of vision casting, it's not from this place of I'm not good enough and I have to get better and I think that's really important to name too because it's yeah I don't know I think I think intention setting and vision casting and whatever else you want to call it it doesn't need to be assigned to a calendar day it can be on a fucking Tuesday it can be on a full moon even though new moons are for new beginnings. It can, right?

It's, yeah. We don't follow rules here. I'm also laughing because now we've both just named our undiagnosed neurodiversities. And I feel like people listening are probably like, well, yeah, of course. Like we already knew that. I feel like everyone I've told in like people that know me, they don't even bat an eyelash. Like they're not surprised at all. I seem to attract other neurodivergent people. And obviously that was never intentional, especially because I never even had the language for it. But it is really interesting just to notice that we vibe together

and there is that like kind of energetic connection, even if there aren't formal labels or diagnoses. Yeah. I just always appreciate the speed at which we can keep up with each other and the million you know the million strings that we can have going at the same time like million topics and when maybe that's it right I can't form a deep relationship with someone that can't follow me yeah exactly so I love it I love it so much but again that's even that's it like that like having having the language like formal diagnosis or not but having that language again is just

widening the permission field for us to fully truly see ourselves and unapologetically own these tangents unapologetically own this pace unapologetically own the kind of for me it shows up in this hyper fixated obsessive like crazy focus and energy and then literally almost like collapse marinating in bed for a couple days and again the nuance in that too because I also understand that that is aligned with my human design my profile is being a 6-2 it's just so interesting all these little like self-discovery tools and again not using them as prescription but using them as tools for exploration yeah and a deeper understanding more self-compassion self-awareness yeah yeah yes yes yes okay I have no idea how long we've been recording for a while I think an hour maybe longer obviously part of our intention with this

sub-series was to potentially add ritual to our own lives and invite our listeners to ritual and connect with the new and full moons we are approaching a full moon that we know nothing about and really kind of feel disconnected from the lunar cycle in this moment. So I just wanted to name that. That's true. Yeah. Because this is like a part of it too, right? This journey of whatever, cyclical embodiment and spirituality and all of it. There's no right way to do it.

And it gets to be imperfect and it gets to be messy and inconsistent and yeah yeah there's no performance here no not yeah yeah if anything I'm most connected to like my menstrual cycle energy right now I I'm on day 28. Feeling that. Feeling low. On day nine, is that right? Let me look. Yeah. And I think it ties into the post-holiday crash a little bit for me as well. I certainly, this past weekend, did not weep the couch. I was just absolutely exhausted after all of the socialization that I had to do I'm truly an extroverted introvert in my need and desire for well you host a family for Christmas right so you it did yeah how many how many days I had my mom and stepdad for a week and then a

couple days with no one and then I had some friends arrive for about five days as well so yeah it was a lot it was a lot of yeah yeah it was great it was a lot of fun and so nice to be together but yeah yeah feeling that crash now. But also feeling that like exciting energy of January because I did take off. You know, I really just focused on being present over the holidays and not worrying about work and business and anything else. So it did feel like a break. So then it makes January feel even more like this beginning, this new chapter, this, you know. Well, again, because in your season of business, this does get to be a spring. Yeah. Yeah. And it is, which is so exciting because I feel like it was a very long winter, which is okay because that's the season of

motherhood I was in. I didn't have much capacity for much else. And yeah, I guess that's my update too, since the fall, like getting more, more in-person birth and postpartum doula clients. I've, you know, secured more for this upcoming year, which is exciting. So it's, there's this momentum building, which feels really good and really exciting. So yeah. Yeah. It's nice to be in this energy right now of creation and yeah, still longing for collaboration as always. That is my big, I think, value and like desire for this year is more collaboration and co-creation with, yeah, like hearted people. One with that, we talk about this so often, but we never actually name it or take action on it. We're one day going to do musings and magics.

Yeah. Musings and magic circles, virtual circles. Yes. Yeah, but we should actually take action on that. We should. Literally every episode you are calling in collaboration. And I'm like, hey, Lauren, like we keep talking about it, but we're not actually taking action. So let's do it.

Okay, it's on here now. So we got to do it now. Need a little urgency to get me going. And again, just like normalizing and accommodating yourself with that need, right? Yeah. And it's okay that you need that urgency and that you need that like outside accountability. That's something that I've actually really been leaning into is outside accountability. And for a while, I was really trying to almost prove to myself that I didn't need it because I was almost judging myself for wanting

it. And it's like that we are humans. We're pack animals. We're supposed to be in community. Of course, accountability just helps. Right. Yeah. And that's been my experience with this hormone group thing that I did for the last three months. So it was like a wellness. It's called the balanced woman. I'll link it in the show notes because any, the woman that runs it is amazing, but that's exactly what it was for me. I needed that external accountability to change some really bad habits. I found myself in that were contributing to my dysregulation and to my lack of capacity and, you know, feeling so depleted and low energy. And now I'm like, yeah, with that help with that. But same thing. It was like, I wanted to try to prove to myself that I could do it, but you know,

I'm 35 and I still haven't done it. So is it okay to have that and that external, you know, and now I'm exercising three times a week, no problem. And that for me has been so hard for me to make and build new routines. You went to a fucking yoga studio at 6 a.m. This morning. I know. Who am I? Who are you? I know.

I know. I can't even imagine. I just need to go out of reach right now. Tis the season for me, but yeah, like having that help to like, you know, a hand to hold to get me out of those habits and into new ones and, and realizing that, yeah, I need a little bit of handholding and a little bit of accountability. And, you know, she's got an app that's been really helpful for my brain. So all of these little tools and tricks have just been, and now I have the proof that, yeah, see, I can do this. I can be consistent. I can,

you know, create new routines and do things I don't want to do and keep my brain, you know, somewhat on track. So, yeah. We were talking about that before recording too like this this journey more recently I've been on of recognizing that for a while I was kind of associating a sense of like ease with alignment oh if it's if it feels easy and if it's something that I want to do then it must be an alignment and kind of this like fluffy way of seeing things. And I'm, I'm really recognizing that I very much still believe that like desires are a compass and leading by desire is a profound way to leave, to lead our life. But the vehicle in which we meet those desires might not be something we want to do. And it might not be something that feels easy. And so creating more space and holding myself through the discomfort

of doing hard things when they're in pursuit of a greater vision and a greater desire, right? And so I feel like what you just described are perfect examples of that. I don't know, like you probably don't wake up at 6am thinking, well, I want to roll out of bed and go to the yoga studio and do yoga. But you know, at the end of it, it feels good. And it's in pursuit of a greater desire of how you want to feel. Or like my examples were every night, like I make a overnight tea infusion. And if I don't do it, then I don't have it in the morning. So it's one of those things like what kind of things can you do to that your future self will thank you for? And for me, it's been this journey of recognizing that those things aren't always things that I want to do. But they're things that I need to do in pursuit of my greater desire and greater vision.

And you used the word devotion earlier when you were talking about this, and I love that word. Well, because that's what it is. And this is so beautiful in the context of New Year's, right? Because that's the thing is so many people feel like they need to have this discipline and commitment. And again, it's coming from something's wrong and I need people feel like they need to have this discipline and commitment. And again, it's coming from something's wrong and I need to fix and I need to control. And I think what's really more gentle and impactful and sustainable is the sense of devotion, right? So being devoted to yourself in the sense of like self-love and self-acceptance and self-compassion but also being devoted to your desires your vision your your goals whatever that

is the things that are feeling out of reach what are the things that you need to devote yourself to get there and like self-trust like it's this devotion to self and you can trust that you're going to continue to be devoted to that. I just love that word devotion. It's just got a very like feminine energy to it for me as well. Yeah, I agree. Yeah. All right. Well, I think that was enough musings for one day. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Stay tuned because we're're gonna set a date for our first musings and magic circle you've heard it here it's gonna happen so excited it'll be like having one of these conversations with us yeah I'm getting to pull on all these threads and be witness to

your own experience I think I keep coming like I keep okay so vulnerability honesty the things that I'm so good at oh my gosh it's one of those things where I know it's a superpower and it's also oh here I go again like breaking the cycle of silence because nobody else is talking about it. But I'm really leaning into the power of group work and how basically my entire business has been built off of group work. I've always kind of offered one-on-one mentorship, but it's never been something that I really try to market. And I don't try really hard to fill those spots because it's not necessarily what lights me up. Obviously, if it's with the right person, that's a different story. But I really see the profound power and potency of being in circle and being in community. And really, for all of the reasons we've just kind

of pulled on in this episode around, like widening the permission field and being able to lean on and glean the wisdom from each other's shared experience and breaking the cycle of silence in whatever it is that we are kind of moving into a shame spiral around and collaboration. Getting that validation. Validation, community, all of that, acceptance, belonging, all of it. And I also think we've we've talked about this I don't know if we've talked about this in Amusing Zen Magic episode but for both of us like we've kind of had conversations around just the coaching space's obsession with scaling your business and having pre-recorded stuff and something that I keep coming back to as a value of mine in my own business is like the medicine is too strong to administer without supervision

and I don't mean that in a I know better than you and so I have to like watch what you're doing but what I mean by that is like when we're in community and when we're in circle with each other it allows for the activation and the potential triggers that come up to actually be like met and held space for, as opposed to just becoming more like constricted and like suppressed and all of the things, right? Like it's really a beautiful opportunity to to truly see yourself in ways you've never seen yourself and work through things that have felt too too sticky too hard too uncomfortable and especially for mothers like especially for mothers same thing like when I think of my own work and my own you know offerings and things like community and connection are the core of what I think is going

to help mothers most is being in community with other mothers who are both in the same kind of season as you and not and not that's the thing too right we've lost the art of disagreement we've lost the ability to hold space for not even disagreeing but like not being able to understand someone else's experience and so again being in in circle being in community sharing space with other people not just kind of consuming things in your ear without getting to be witnessed in how you're integrating it oh I don't know I could go on and on, because that is just something that I feel so passionate about. And something I really wanted to want to lean into this year in my business is how do I continue to create spaces where where that supervision, for lack of a better word,

is there, right? I don't want to just potentially activate you and stir all these things up with you, but then not hold space for you to make sense of them and let them land and digest and integrate. Okay. Usually my bladder or something tells me that it's time to go off, but I don't even have to pee right now. So this is weird. Well, I'm hungry. So that's something. We'll let that. Okay. Bye my friend. This is the answer as always. I love you. I miss you. I love you.