REWILD + FREE - Redefining Postpartum Preparation and Business Creation, with Gaby Gonzalez (@LatinaDoula)

Episode Date: August 8, 2023

How many times were you thinking "I wish someone would have told me this"  in the early weeks after having a baby?  In this episode, Gaby and I chat all things postpartum including how to navigate the transition into early motherhood, the importance of  rest and deep nourishment, and why we need to start raising the bar in terms of societal expectations for the mother baby dyad. I also share a bit of my own early postpartum experience and things I wish I knew/did differently.  We go on to to reflect on some parallels between birth and business, including the mystery behind creation, navigating the desire for external validation,  and how human design fits in to this. Gaby and I also discuss: How to regulate and center yourself The importance of identifying and voicing your needs How to create and set boundaries Emotional regulation in motherhood Why you should stop seeking advice outside yourselfIt's time to start rewriting the narrative on birth, postpartum, and business creation! Meet this week's guest:    Gaby supports and walks alongside women to prepare for the most sacred transition (Birth and Postpartum) through online workshops, 1:1 virtual prenatal preparation, and in-person birth and postpartum support for NY moms. "The best gift you can give to a child is a mother that feels supported, knows her options, and is connected with her inner power."  - Gaby  Click here to find Gaby on the Peanut appConnect with Gaby on IG (@LatinaDoula)Connect with Nicole on IG (@nicolepasveer)Want to be a guest on the podcast?  Fill out this formDonuts are my love language!If this show has inspired, transformed or made your life a tinyyy bit better in anyway and you’ve been searching for a way to say thank you, and support me in producing more episodes, you can now buy me a donut 🍩  (see link below)Support the showConnect with Nicole on IG (@nicolepasveer) Want to be a guest on the podcast? Fill out this form

There's also these messages of enjoy every moment. No, you don't need to enjoy every moment. I'm here to tell you that. Do not enjoy every moment. What I will say is experience every emotion. Welcome to the Not Just a Mom Show, where we have open and honest conversations about the vulnerabilities and the victories

within entrepreneurship and new motherhood. If we haven't met yet, I'm Nicole Pazvir and I'm to be your host. Here on the show, we don't subscribe to perfection. In fact, being present is the new perfect and showing up messy is the new norm. We are worthy, just as we are, as all that we are, not just the label we put on ourselves. We are more than just a mom and I'm so glad you're here. This episode was really cool. It was a conversation I've been looking forward to for a long time. I've known Gabby for a little while now, and I've never met her in person,

but every time we've been on Zoom or chatting in Facebook Messenger, I always feel such a deep sense of comfort and safety in her presence. And I really hope you can feel that energy come across as you're listening to her speak. passionate about the topic we are discussing. She also holds a lot of reverence and space for the whole human experience and what it means to be a mother. And yeah, like I said, it is just a really beautiful experience to be in her presence and to share space with her. This conversation, like so many of the conversations I have on this show, went in so many directions. It was beautiful because we started talking about postpartum and some of the things that I think so many of us wish we had known heading into postpartum. And just some of the things that you can explore when you're pregnant to try to help you navigate postpartum a little bit easier, if that's even possible. But we also weaved some aspects of business and personal discovery and boundary setting and standing in your own truth all into the conversation as well. So yeah,

I think you're going to like this one. I'm going to jump right to the recording. Trying to think, we would have met each other through Kylie's doula training program. We actually were in an accountability pod together. So for a while there, we were meeting, was it weekly? I think it was like every Tuesday, right? And we were pretty involved in each other's work and like what things we were working on and just like what our goals were. And then, yeah, I don't know what happened. Life started lifing. Things just evolved. And I mean, we still stayed in touch, of course, but it's been a long time since we chatted.

So I'm really excited to kind of get caught up and hear what's been going on in your world. If you want to start with just introducing yourself and yeah, what you think people should know about you. Yeah. Well, thank you. I'm super honored to be here and I'm actually very excited. It's interesting that recently I changed my Instagram from English to Spanish. So now I have to get used to speaking more in English again. But what should people know about me?

That's a good question. Well, I am super passionate about birth, about everything that involves birth as the mystery, as the mystery, as the mystery as the mystery as the yeah as how mysterious the process is like that's my main passion that I just since I was I will say a little girl yes like that's something that I really children baby and I have a really special connection, even though I am not a mother yet. I have a mother. I have siblings. And I grew up in a big family.

And it's something that I just loved. And, well, since I closed my chapter in the corporate world, I started to open up the doors to this thing that has been calling me for a long time. And I started supporting mothers through infant massage, as a yoga, as a prenatal yoga teacher, as a doula in Venezuela. And that opened up a whole new world for me. And I haven't looked back since. But for the last five years or so I have been very very focused on the postpartum period because of my well this is it's all connected with my immigration process when I left Venezuela in Venezuela I was already working with a lot of moms and babies I did mostly infirmary staff and yoga for kids. And then I decided to migrate, but I was still living inside of a family with babies and kids. And I started noticing that the moms had similarities. I was like, all these moms are quite lonely.

They feel a lot of guilt. It's not a matter of culture anymore because I've seen it in venezuela i'm now seeing it here in europe in italy in spain and i was like what do i have the the tools that i have can i support them and actually infant massage is interesting because i was already listening to them in the very beginning of their performance because it's only during the first 12 months that I trained with them so I was like wow and I I've never even heard of postpartum doula to even even with my training for me the word doula was only related to birth that's it but after that I think that's kind of new ones or I don't know if in the U.S. it was people were using it already or not but since I wasn't a mother yet I started feeling more connection with oh this is

where I support best like I love being inside of the birth because of the misery and all everything but for some reason it felt more natural to me to be in the afterwards because I feel really comfortable with babies I feel really comfortable with emotions and feelings and moms feel all the feelings during the time. I'm not like, it's okay if you cry. I don't feel, you know how there's people that do not love when people are too emotional around them. I'm not that person.

I'm the opposite. So I'm like, i think this is it so i have been focusing in postpartum so i call my name a postpartum myself a postpartum doula and i'm now in the united states so like i said i keep seeing similar things in moms that are very lonely within their problems even though i mean come on we all come from a mother but we all have for some reason the experience of motherhood have changed even with i i'm i'm willing to say like with globalization with how in like even with our role in society as women, right? The more we want empowerment and being able to be equal,

that has impacted our relationship with motherhood. So it's just been interesting. And now I am the United States as a postpartum doula, building a business to support more moms online and educating during pregnancy. Because I do believe that that is key for having, not for having, I don't want to promise any results, but for navigating postpartum with confidence that you have the tools and that you're not just walking into the complete void so I do believe it's key to prepare during pregnancy I don't know that was way more than my introduction that was like no that was perfect because it it just kind of paints the whole picture of how the evolution of Gabby is right now. And it's really cool to hear you say

that you were able to distinct that it wasn't necessarily a culture issue because that's something that I've spoken about quite frequently on the show where I'm almost always bashing our culture. And I feel like North America specifically, we are almost cultureless. So many of us have lost touch with our ancestral background

and our cultural traditions and the wisdom of our ancestors. And I know for myself, I'm just Canadian. Even though I'm technically Italian, German, British, I'm, I'm just Canadian. Like, even though I'm technically like Italian, German, British, and Swedish, I'm not actually, I have literally no connection to those roots. And like, I really am cultureless. And so I've always kind of blamed the hardships of, or some aspects of the hardships of motherhood and specifically postpartum on the dysfunctional culture so it's really interesting to hear you say that that wasn't necessarily all of it i'm sure that does play a part in it but to hear you say that you were seeing some common themes

um in various cultures um is really interesting and like those themes being like loneliness and stuff like that is such a deep feeling that I think, unfortunately, is universal in motherhood. Like I think everyone experiences that to some degree, no matter how supported you actually are. And it's just interesting to think about like how do we actually prepare parents for that? And I don't know what the answer is maybe you have some suggestions but I also really liked how you I don't know if this was purposeful in the language you chose to use but you use the word navigating and I really liked that because I think if we get hung up on trying to prepare it can very very easily be this like to-do list and like this, well, I,

I've prepared enough. So then you have this like expectation and when reality doesn't meet that expectation, we know that's when trouble can arise and things just kind of go sideways from there. And so I like the word navigating because it just gives so much room for flexibility it gives so much room for nuance it gives so much room for just the ebbs and the flows and the ups and the downs and the whole human experience that we're all experiencing and really like we don't give much space so yeah I just really liked that specific word that is it's funny because I was as I am transitioning my business into Spanish because actually I I was being called I'm like why am I I share with a different passion and detail when I speak in my own language even though I feel really comfortable in English I there was something calling for me to talk in Spanish and also my country particularly Venezuela

we have been experiencing a migration a huge migration process over the last seven years so there are many women that decided to leave their country that are having family away from their families that I haven't very particular struggles that need support when you're and actually it's actually I'm also a maternal mental health like advocate and being an immigrant having left your like being an immigrant speaking a different language is a risk factor for the women. So since I started speaking in Spanish, what was I saying? I was trying to be like,

okay, what's the word navigating in Spanish? And it's actually very similar because, and I'm going to tell you why, because I do not want to be selling a specific result because that is not true and and I see I know that that sells but do I want to sell with something that is true to my heart or with something that is just for a number so that's why like I was very um I purposely chose that word because I don't want to tell you that you're going to have a wonderful postpartum. What does that mean? Having a wonderful postpartum can mean something completely different

from me to you, to your neighbor. So no, I don't want you to expect that, but I want you to expect that knowing about the process that you're going to, the initiation, the starting of a cycle, like to being aware of what's happening will give you the tools, the awareness, the consciousness, the space to plan, but in a strategy way, like plan who's going to be around you, who's going to be able to take around because you are going to be in your most vulnerable space so i do think that they're important really valuable information to know before to plan for it but not to um guarantee a result that is gonna go one way or another i'm not i'm not saying that i'm not taking the responsibility no yeah well i think that's so important too from the perspective of a mom and when you are preparing and like gearing up to expand your family and opening up your whole world to all the changes that come with that it can be like almost harmful if you get super stuck on a fixed outcome. And like, even

when we think about like preparing for birth, if you are so attached to a certain outcome, and that outcome doesn't play out the way you envisioned in your mind, then you start writing stories about yourself and you start telling yourself how you failed and all these things. And I feel like postpartum is no different. So again, just having that flexibility and that space for nuance and just the permission, I guess, to pivot as things pop up and having just more than one approach to like when we think of like tools and strategies that people might kind of have in their back pocket. It's not just this like checklist of things that as long as you have all their back pocket. It's not just this like

checklist of things that as long as you have all these supplies and as long as you have this many meals packed in the freezer and like this many pads like in the freezer and whatever else people think they need to do for postpartum support, like that's not going to guarantee you anything. It really is deeper than that. And you spoke about kind of like the initiation and I'm thinking about like the maiden to mother journey and the importance of moving through that rite of passage and completing that rite of passage. And then also like the psychological and emotional safety and intimacy that comes with this stage in, I'm saying our life because

I feel like I'm still in it. And I'm still experiencing all of that, even in terms of who I feel safe enough to share some of my struggles and just thinking to my own experience with breastfeeding and lack of sleep and being able to nourish my body. Like it's not easy to just ask anyone to be in your home or even just be in your space and allow them to see you in that raw, messy, vulnerable state. And that was a big part of my story, not being able to be open enough to receiving support and care, because I didn't want to be seen as weak. And I think that is a common story for a lot of women. And I think it goes back to how you pointed out, just with kind of like the shifts in society,

and you didn't spit this out entirely, but I was just thinking to like the feminist movement and how we went through a period of time where it's like, women can do anything a man can do. And it's like, well, no, actually that's not true. We can't, but we can actually do some things better. And like, there's things we can do that a man can't do. And I don't know, just holding space for all of that, I think is invaluable because in general society culture, we aren't really taught how to do that. So like looking back, like I've had conversations with my mom and we've talked about how she knew I needed support, but she didn't even know how to support me. And even though like I knew I needed support

and I knew she was just down the road, I didn't know what to ask for because in a perfect world I shouldn't be asking right like in a perfect world your village just knows what to do and right we're lacking that well but your village knows knows what to do but I think it's also an opportunity to to learn how to voice what you to ask for things to open yourself like i said to receive yeah you're not meant to do it alone we have society telling telling us and commercials over and over that you are powerful super women that can do it all no you are not supposed to do it alone you're not supposed to this is something that recently it's touching my heart because recently we experienced in the house you're not supposed to enjoy everything no like please you are not and that does not make you less

of a loving mother you're still your love for your children is not related to how much you enjoy motherhood if that makes i hope this makes sense no that absolutely made sense yeah because the other day my i'm living with my sister-in-law that she's recently postpartum with the second baby and again that's another thing like every time you have a baby every time you go again to an through a new cycle postpartum is different every time it's not that you okay you're postpartum forever because you had a a kid before doesn't mean you're all you're going through the initiation again the dynamic is different that you are a different person the the baby like is another human being coming in like all is changing so she's a mother she's a recently mother too and she had a really rough night because

baby for was being a baby and was not sleeping through the night. And then toddler was being a toddler. They all wanted mommy because she's still the default parent. And she was just like about to break down. She was like, I cannot, like, I feel horrible. I want to be with them, but I don't. I want to just go to sleep. I want to go.

And I was like, it's okay and I was like it's okay Beth and it's okay go take what do you need you need to if you need to cry please cry it out like either walking in by yourself either taking a shower a bath however we are here for you we can take over your kids are gonna be fine but go take care of yourself however you need to and she was feeling just so guilty because she's like but i love them so much i know that you love them so much like i that's not even a doubt for me absolutely these are not related you have to take care of yourself but it touched me i was like wow she's just trying to live up to this expectation that you have to always be there enjoying rest and loving every second absolutely not just why is motherhood the only thing in life

that we have to enjoy every no yeah like it's just not realistic and it causes harm and actually i thought about social media about this because yes i know that more and more mothers are showing their the full story but there's also these messages of enjoy every moment no you don't need to enjoy every moment i'm here to tell you that do not enjoy every moment what i will say is experience every emotion yeah that yeah that just gave me chills yeah yeah but enjoy every moment no because that's not human yeah yeah and that's bs that's not and the other thing well imagine when you're 80 you're gonna want to be in this space no you're not yeah how is that gonna give you comfort because that is bypassing the emotion that you're experiencing in that moment that is trying to ignore it and and i don't think that's healthy at all for anyone's mental health yeah i would

agree and i think that's just a really good reminder for literally all aspects of life not just fresh postpartum early motherhood like in order to actually experience the whole human experience that involves feeling all the things and placing less judgment on our feelings and not like, I feel like we can get stuck in this very like binary way of thinking where things are very black and white and either good or bad and feelings can't be put in those labels. Like there is no good and bad. They're all coming up for a reason and they all need to be felt. And I think something that I know kind of rocked my world heading into motherhood is having space for the duality of emotions, because I think

the paradox of like what your sister experienced the other night is so profound. And I can't really think of any other, I can't think of any other examples than kind of the one you just shared. Like it just becomes so real in motherhood. And I don't know how you can prepare for that. Like, again, I don't think it's something you can prepare for. It's something that you just have to be able to navigate. And being able to navigate it involves having a support system and that emotional and psychological safety to feel and to be. Yeah, exactly. I agree. And also, so again, going to the words navigate, well, having the tools to, okay, how do I regulate myself when I'm in this stage? Like, what are

the things? Do I already know what are the things that brings me joy and that I know how to do that that will help me go back to my center because it doesn't help if I tell her do this meditation if you have never meditated that's just going to give you more stress like yeah yeah you need to know So those are the tools knowing what are the things that brings you back to your center that only, you know, but if you take the time to think about those things while you're pregnant, then when those moments come, at least you have it like, okay, this is the thing that I do. Let me find, let me reach out to my tribe to have the space to do this because I need to

take care of myself. So definitely navigating is preparing yourself to stand up for yourself, to that, like, how do you say healthy boundaries with other to know what helps you go back to your center. Yeah. Those are some of it. No, I love it. So when you, when you're working with clients and you're working with a pregnant mom and helping her kind of create her tool bag of strategies so that she can navigate these things when they come up in postpartum. What are some of the things you kind of guide her through to help her start learning, like how to even recenter herself and how to actually find out those things that can actually fill her cup back up. And I really like the distinction you made about meditation as an example. And like, yeah, if you've never meditated, that's going to do more harm than good. Same with like another example I

was thinking of is like, get outside and go for like a walk. Well, like if you just had a C-section and you are in like agonizing pain and a bunch of other things are happening, a walk isn't going to be supportive for you. So like just kind of knowing again, how to navigate what's going to be supportive, what's actually going to nourish yourself and your soul versus what's actually going to be more of like a depletion and a, um, yeah, more, more of just like something that's going to deplete or actually like harm you how how do you how do you help clients actually kind of navigate those things yeah well the the first tool that i use for me that is important for me is for them to know what's happening mom like the the couple like know what's going to happen because meaning what's happening

emotionally what what's happening with your hormones and try try as much as i can to help them visualize that future like to and see okay if i if i give you this picture if i tell you already like most likely what's happening with her hormones what is happening with her body what is happening with her emotion all that okay now knowing all this how would you approach this how would you approach visitor how would you approach meals how would you approach taking care of your the rest of your family how would you approach work how would you approach so that i start normally with giving them um an overview of what really happens other than yours in bliss full and joy with your baby in your arms. And then asking questions. They normally have to go through the, like a workbooks

or just questions that I give them. And I give, of course, I give examples, but at the end they have to test it out. And like I've heard you say, they have to take also full responsibility of being, do I want to start exploring what brings me joy or not and they don't do it that that it's not on me i offer them the questions and i offer them the tools and then at the end of the day is whatever they decide to do with that information and but definitely showing

like giving them a brief understanding on what's happening. Like the other day in a peanut pod, because I host peanut pods in Spanish, a woman asked me, Gabby, why did you talk so much about the importance of the 40 days? Like, why the 40 days? And I went through, well, this is what's happening. And I explained to her within your womb like what happened with your organs inside with your hormones emotions then i went and she was like wow it's the first time and she has already a toddler and she didn't know that that was happening within her

so knowing that it's like it's not just a woo philosophy from yogi no it literally happened within your body like yeah i'm not making this up no and knowledge is having that away like yeah when we actually understand what's going on yeah when we can understand what's actually going on like physiologically and hormonally it it i think allows us to dig a bit deeper to offer ourselves that heavy dose of self-compassion that we need. And I think for our partners as well, because we have grown up in this world that is so focused on production and bounce back and getting back to your old identity and just doing all the things that, yeah, like we don't even know what's happening inside our body. Like it's almost as if we still believe that babies are delivered by storks. And obviously that's not the case, right? There's magic and mystery happening in the body. Like you pointed out right at the beginning, one of your favorite parts about birth is the mystery. And while, yeah, a lot of it is still very mysterious, there is still a lot of things

that we do know. And so having as much understanding and education around that, I think is so valuable. And I think speaking for myself, and I think for a large percent of the population, we get really hung up on preparing. I'm using air quotes around preparing because I don't love that word in this context, but we get so hung up on preparing. I'm using air quotes around preparing because I don't love that word in this context, but we get so hung up on preparing for birth. And we forget that birth is just like a teeny tiny aspect of the whole picture, right? Like, yes, it kind of feels like it's the big milestone and like the grand finale. And that's so far from

the truth. It's literally just like the passageway and the transition into everything and I wish someone could have got that through my thick skull when I was pregnant but if I'm being honest I don't know if I would have been ready to listen um I think it is also one of those things that's another good point have to walk through it yourself and figure it out the hard way but again like just support or surrounding yourself with a support system even if it's virtual that can hold space for you in all the things we've kind of just mentioned I think is really really important yes and I'm now creating um well i also offer packages where they can interact with me interact with me by like voice or message or messages and having one virtual call

every week that way because another thing is yes i'm telling you these but remember first is gonna happen i nobody can tell you how and you're gonna be facing a different postpartum that i don't know that you don't know so you're gonna have a lot of challenges coming up do you want to go down the rabbit hole google do you want to have someone that is an expert on it to give you research? Because I also tell them I'm not supposed to have all the answers. I'm probably going to ask you more questions. And yes, one of my love languages is sending links. I'll probably send you links, but I already went through all those like resources. So you don't need to go find them. Yeah. And if I don't know it, I'll go find it for you. So I offer also that, that I believe it's very useful. And I don't need to go find them yeah and if i don't know it i'll go find it for you so i offer

also that that i believe it's very useful and i don't really need not necessarily need to be like physically with you i do support moms physically a lot but i am transitioning into making my business as much online as possible and yeah and also have this idea this is all filled you know how businesses are i know i want to create this um i i am going to start playing with it just because i don't want to overthink it anymore with creating a chat with Spanish speaker moms that are pregnant or giving birth during 2023. And for them to just have that space to talk with other moms that are going through the same thing, which is not going to be, even though I will create it, it's not like they should, I will probably pop in and out, but it's more for them to have this space to not

feel alone and reach out to other women that are going through similar things and a similar period of life yeah well and like you pointed out like loneliness loneliness really is that common theme, that common thread between all of us. And the language barrier really does complicate things. Like you kind of brought that up in the context of a risk factor for maternal mental health, but just thinking in relation to how they're able to navigate the healthcare system and being able to ask questions and all of those things are so much harder if there's the language barrier and just like difficulty with communication. And I can't even imagine because obviously like English is my, my, well, my only language. But yeah, like that would add a layer of complexity that I think a group like you're suggesting where they're around people speaking the same language

they can actually like I don't know because I I know I've even heard you say it where like you aren't I don't confident isn't the right word but like because you have multiple languages going on in your head it can be sometimes hard to know if you're pulling out the right word and so I can just imagine how safe they would feel if they were surrounded by people that they don't need to worry about what word they're spitting out right so I love that I say you jump on that stop thinking about it just do it I also love that. I say you jump on that, stop thinking about it, just do it. I also love that you brought that up because I think it's a perfect segue into talking about business a little bit. As I was hearing you talk about just some of the things that you do in your own business and in your method, let's call it, and how you support mothers,

I was reflecting back on kind of what I've been doing in my business too, and really steering away from me being an expert or me providing any sort of promise or guarantee or framework. And instead, like, okay, how do I actually like shift this so that I'm helping them look inwards and helping them find their center and just like less seeking out of external validation and more looking inwards. And I think that's kind of a missing piece right now in the business world. I feel like everyone is very flashy about, well, here's like the foolproof 10-step process to getting like 10k a month, or here's my exact framework for getting blah, blah, blah. And it's like, wait a minute, like copying these strategies

and these frameworks isn't actually going to help. Like you said with the meditation thing, if you've never meditated before, that's actually going to do more harm. If your nervous system doesn't have the capacity to handle whatever Susie on the other side of letting our hearts be the guide instead of logically trying to think through everything and I think from what I'm hearing you say that's that's kind of like the core behind what you do with moms and like we need that in business too I need to do that in my business too because i get super caught up in okay tell me what are the steps tell me just tell and then like you pointed out like there's no guarantee like and if we're constantly just searching for that next step

outside of ourselves like it's it's not going to And it's not, and even if it does work, it's not going to be sustainable. It's not going to work the next time. Right. Right. Sustainability is also important. Yes. Yes. In business. I also, it's something that I'm navigating actually, but I, the fun part is that it the the fact that I have been changing or thinking about different offers here and there and at least all the time that I have been putting on it has given me the fact that I'm trying to look for the word in English, like the assurance that this is something that I love. This is the topic because I was of the fact that the topic is the

right topic like the supporting mothers being like babies postpartum births it is because otherwise i would have not done everything i've done for the last 10 years i would have just gone back to corporate which i haven't done and I'm not willing to do so I'm like okay the passion is there I will find out the way that will define my own

concept of success as well so I've been going through that what does success mean for you what does a successful business look for me Because it's not necessarily what it looks for you or for Kylie or other people that are running their business. going back to what you said about how you support mothers in pregnancy and how you kind of give them, you kind of paint the picture for them and then have them kind of explore, well, this is maybe how I'd handle it. Like we need to be doing that ourselves in our own business, right? We need to start actually tuning in and thinking, okay, well, this is what would feel

good or this wouldn't feel good or this fits into my lifestyle or this doesn't or this actually puts me on track for what my goals are this doesn't like actually like looking at all the different scenarios and kind of trying on different things for size to see what fits and just remembering that there's not a one-size-fits-all approach and so it is trial and error or try and less trial and lesson if you prefer to call it that but and also the not supposed to do it alone is the same thing yes yes because I have been trying to do it alone I'm struggling so much and then I'm like okay no I'm not you don't have to figure it out what do I need to delegate what because I'm not this is is not going anywhere, me doing everything. No.

And the same thing that I just said to you, motherhood is not meant to be done by yourself nor online business entrepreneurship. No. Yeah. Well, and then again, back to what you said about seeking like the emotional and psychological safety and just being safe and secure enough to feel all the things and just looking at things from like a nervous nervous system perspective

and being able to um just move through it all and not get stuck in any one state or get stuck in any one emotion or feeling. And that is nearly impossible to do if you're doing it alone, because we have way too much on our plate to begin with. Like, yeah. And it's not even about like having a physical support system where people are like helping you with tangible things. I think it is more about that emotional and psychological space for like brainstorming and soundboarding off of each other and just like yeah like making sense of the the messiness that can be in our head and I know for myself I'm going to bring human design into the conversation now um learning that I'm a self-projected projector and understanding that

like I actually get clarity and get answers for myself by speaking out loud like that was a huge turning point in in both my motherhood and my entrepreneurial journey in the sense that it gave me the permission to, I don't want to say like complain because that's not what it is, but it gave me the permission to just start like voicing my concerns out loud and actually like just thinking out loud. And for a part, for a long time, I was thinking that when I was doing that, that was my old tendency of trying to seek external validation. I used to almost get mad at myself when I was doing that thinking, well, I'm just doing that because I want to know what they think and I want their validation or their praise or their support or their advice. And then when I kind of understood

my human design type and understood, well, no, Nicole, you're actually doing this because this is when you get clarity. And this is, you're literally getting wisdom from your own voice. It gave me the permission to keep soundboarding out loud. And that was huge. Well, you gave yourself the permission. Oh, I did. Yes. No, exactly. But because at the end is what you decide to do with the tool. Exactly. Yeah. No, I actually love that distinction is, yeah, that was just a tool. And I decided to let it open the door really. I, but then I walked through the door. Yeah. I love that.

Exactly. Yeah. Well, you said something about getting up because I am a manifestor and it's a little different, but I'm like my strategy is supposed to be just informed, informed, informed. But then it's like, how do you inform? But because I am a very particular manifestor, I have something very similar that the sounding board actually really helps me. And again, but because I inform and sometimes my way of communicating is not so soft. Sometimes when I'm talking with others, like my brother, people that are very close to me where I'm like,

I don't need, I remember I said, I don't need your advice. I just need you to hear me. And he's so mad. He was like, well, if you don't need your advice. I just need you to hear me. And he was so mad. He was like, well, if you don't need my advice, what are you? And I'm like, well, but it's the truth. And then at the end, it was a whole mess because, I don't know, he wasn't comfortable, but I was supposed to be doing what I'm supposed to do.

I'm informing. I'm talking to do. I'm informing, I'm talking it out loud, but at the end, how the other receive it, it's actually, like, it's never up, it's out of my control always. I can never control how others take me or perceive or interpret me or what I say. Yeah, like that. That's all true. And when I was hearing you share that example with your brother, it made me think, okay, like, imagine if you were freshly postpartum, and just trying to voice whatever was coming out. And like, again, just how important it is to surround yourself with the right people that can hold space for it all. And again, thinking back to like motherhood and my own pregnancy journey,

there's already so much unsolicited advice out there that like, you almost become fearful of speaking in such a way that is going to give someone an invitation to give you advice like you become very careful with how you say anything because you almost need to like stop it before it comes and I think yeah just like hearing you story hearing your story about your brother not being willing to just listen like only wanting to be able to fix, I think is so common. Like, I think that is the majority of the population is so uncomfortable with seeing other people get uncomfortable that it's like default to try to fix and try to offer help and try to give advice and obviously the intention is good but in the context of being freshly postpartum and a new mother and navigating all the things or

in our case being entrepreneurs and just trying to like sort out all the things going in in our head like we don't need advice like if we're looking for advice we'll we'll be very clear about asking for it um right yeah it's tricky because yeah not everyone's able to do that and so again just the importance of surrounding yourself with the right people and maybe being clear yourself like how you were able to say well no i'm not actually looking for advice here like continuing to assert that boundary because I think that's important too yeah and now that you brought up uh part of the conversation I actually suggest mothers when they say because this is something that happens a lot not what about my in-laws what did I say to my in-laws to my own mother and father I don't really want them actually I hear this most of the time from sex moms that are going to be moms for the second time and they are way more aware of who they want and who they don't

want but they struggle with how will they phrase it and all that and I'm like look you have to think about this only the people I suggest think about having around you the people that you feel psychologically safe and the people that you feel completely comfortable for them to see you in on diapers and with your boobs out yeah so that's going to help you figure it out who are you going to let in to your world during that beginning of postpartum. And just by having that picture, I hope it helps you communicate whatever you need to communicate. But because I try to put it as raw as possible

because otherwise they just like, I was talking, trying to explain the other day to someone in Venezuela specifically, it's messed up the traditions and how we see postpartum, even though we support way more than the United States. There are some traditions around it

that just do not support it to the point that having a salon inside hospitals is a business because the mother gives birth and she's doing her hair, she's having her nail done for the people that are coming

into the room to celebrate wow but she looks presentable and and i'm like no that's i want you to remove that image from your head and see yourself in diapers with your boobs out bleeding, that's the image. Who would you feel comfortable to see you in that way? Okay, those are the people that can be around you. Well, and I can guarantee you that that list probably got way smaller as soon as you painted that picture for them. Yeah. Exactly.

Yeah. Exactly. I think back to like just thinking about how to set boundaries and from my own experience, really having a hard time navigating my desire to people please. And it wasn't till my postpartum journey that I actually became more clear that I had been people pleasing for so many aspects of my life. But I think that's something that's just ingrained in us from little girls where we're supposed to be pretty perfect and pleasing. And like you said, with the salon, like we're supposed to be presentable and show up a certain way and it's all for other people. And there's really never any focus on us. And we're basically taught from a very young age to sideline our own needs and our own opinions and always put people first to the point where we're praised when we do that,

right? We're praised for being selfless and for putting other people ahead of our own needs. And that whole mentality, that whole narrative needs to be rewritten, unsubscribe, control, alt, delete, remove that from the mental pictures in your mind because that is not going to support you in postpartum that's not going to support you in motherhood if i'm being honest um you really need to from birth yeah even even when people talk about birth as well especially when it gets to the point where things go differently than what you expected most of the time what do you hear i just want the baby to be safe

yeah i hardly ever i want me yeah i want me to be safe and i want my baby to be safe i've never heard that no i can say 99 because but most of the time is the baby i'm not saying that the baby is not important of course we all want the baby to be healthy but also the mother who's thinking about the mother why do we forget about the mother so quickly and even the mother forgets about herself why and we and it's just it's so hard for me to grasp it because it's like we all come from a mother it's not, it's so hard for me to grasp it because it's like, we all come from a mother. It's not that it's a process that is unique to some.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, we all have that in common. It's the one thing that we all have in common in humanity, well, and blood, I don't know. Like, we all come from the same process. How come we are so disconnected from it it the wound it runs so deep it's yeah it's it's a lot to unravel and it's a lot to uncover and like i spoke about earlier about my own my own story of really not knowing much

about my ancestry and like my maternal my maternal lineage like the mystery of all that can be really discouraging at times but it can also be really comforting and knowing that yeah we all have a mother like it's a universal thing like we are all someone's daughter we are all I don't even know how else to say it like and then even like looking bigger picture and thinking about like the great mother herself and mother nature and if you believe that you we are a part of nature and that we are nature, like, it's just like, how can you not, how, how can we be so quick to just like, forget about the importance of our own needs and the importance of filling up our cup? That sounds so cliche, but we can't pour from an empty cup and we can't, I don't even know like what else I'm trying to say. I'm just like almost in awe of just how magnificent all of this is. And this is why I

get so like passionate about this topic and birth and motherhood and pregnancy and postpartum and all of it, because it is is just it's something that we need to hold more space for it's something that we need to have more reverence for and it's something that we just need to i don't even know i don't even know i'm lost for words right now reverence is a beautiful word completely i agree yes and it does no matter how much details you have just know that every human being that is standing has a change of women behind them because they the women's like birth to them so yeah and you don't need to know their names where were they from but that's a reality yeah you come on yeah those details don't matter yeah those details really don't need to know their names, where were they from, but that's a reality.

Yeah. You come from a... Yeah, those details don't matter. Yeah, those details really don't matter. Yeah. So, yes, I'm here for it to keep adding value to this process and holding, what you say and the reverence that it needs that it deserves it truly is like the most important work like I feel like I always say that being a mom is the most important job and I do believe that but I think the women out there that are holding moms are right up there with like doing the most important job. of how we're mothering our kids and future generations and just like the unfolding and unraveling of all of that is it's just gonna go to shit like if we aren't starting from the source

source being mother like there's just that massive ripple effect and And I don't think enough people put enough weight there. And the importance of the mother being the center of the home and the center of her family and just all of that. And so, yeah, just kind of tying in some of the stuff we already talked about, like the importance of the mother herself being able to recenter and knowing how to take care of herself and being able to identify and voice whatever she needs and not just her needs, but even her desires and holding space for like the good, the bad and the stinky because it's all there.

And it's not just about, like the goal isn't about just the good. if if all we ever felt was good things like would they even feel good anymore I don't think so like I feel like you have to feel the bad in order to feel the good right right yeah yeah there's a lot there I loved it beautiful is there anything else that you'd like to touch on I just keep thinking back to like man like there's so many things that like I wish I wish I knew when I was preparing for my postpartum period and I mean a lot of the things we just talked about were conversations that I wish I was more open to. But I do keep coming back to the fact that I honestly don't know that I would have been ready to have those conversations. And so I guess, yeah, just thinking back to the version of myself that I was when I was pregnant. And I guess having compassion for that version of myself,

knowing that like I did what I could with what I had, but also I guess almost grieving the fact that I probably could have explored more parts of myself and I probably could have gone down more rabbit holes and I could have been more in tune with what my needs were. And that's okay because I obviously wasn't there yet. But for a future pregnancy, I hope to do things a little bit differently. you like just a DM away and like just more and more understanding of birth and postpartum and deep nourishment for the mother. And like you kind of said, like all the focus is on the baby. And of course the baby is important. Like we're not saying that baby isn't important, but the mother also is. And I think also like that whole line of well at least baby at least mom and baby are

healthy like it's not an at least like that should be the bare minimum and we're allowed to strive for higher we need to be raising the bar and we need to raise the bar to like a mother that's actually like healthy happy and thriving and all the things that come with that yeah yeah but is there anything that comes up to for you that you can verbalize and say I wish I knew about these three things or I don't know besides I remember we have already talked about I remember I did have a doula and my doula told me I don't remember language around the first 40 days like I don't remember really having an understanding or an appreciation definitely not an appreciation for that but I remember my doula telling me um the five five five rule being like five days what is it five days on the bed five days what is it yeah is it on the bed in

in on and around yeah and so like just the importance of rest and um for me what sold me on that was kind of this promise that it's going to help with bonding with the baby and it's going to help with like breastfeeding and all of those things and just encouraging skin to skin all of that so that's kind of what sold me on it because breastfeeding was a big goal of mine um but yeah like looking back hormonal regulation yeah yeah yeah but if if looking back if someone was trying to tell me that like yeah no you need to like lie in for like 40 days and like even having the support of my family and my husband like that it almost seems so taboo like my my husband was actually able to take four weeks off of work so he was home with us for the first month. And oh my goodness, that was amazing. But even for him, like he, I feel like he almost felt

lazy if he wasn't still doing his usual things. So he still went to the gym every day he still did all the grocery shopping for us like he still was out of the house quite often and if he were to just like cuddle up in bed with us and really just support and nourish me and start getting to know our baby like I think a part of him was feeling lazy and I think a part of both of us was almost worried about like the judgment of the outside world and like, oh, well, like just, yeah, like looking back, like how messed up is that? How messed up is it that. And I would get stuck on the comparison hamster wheel of seeing other postpartum women getting out for a walk and taking baby for like a stroller ride. And like, I wanted to be able to do that so badly because I thought that meant that I was thriving. I thought that was almost like the thing that I needed to check off of my to-do list. But healing for me took quite a bit longer than I expected. I had a lot of pain. I did tear, so I had some stitches. I also had a lot of SI joint pain in pregnancy. And

I naively thought that would immediately go away after birth, and it did not. I remember also a lot of tailbone pain to the point where like, I was sure I probably broke my tailbone. I don't think I did, but I know that is possible. But I remember being in so much pain the first couple of weeks and thinking like, there's absolutely no way I can go do those things that I thought meant you were doing well, even though you were. Yeah, like, and so I guess looking back, like, I wish, I wish I knew more about what the healing process was going to look like. And I wish I, I guess I wish I was almost convinced on the importance of the lying in period and the importance of deep rest and nourishment. And then also the education for my partner

and like my mom and close family in how to support me. Like, again, I remember my husband Dylan, he'd like make me a smoothie. And like, I now know that like a cold smoothie, like that was not a good idea. But we had no idea. He thinks he's just being helpful and he was, but like there was no broth, was no stew there was no tea

and yeah so looking back there's a lot of things I would do differently but okay yeah that's that's huge to have that recognition already one yeah like I said it's one of those things like I don't know if anyone could have said the right thing to help me navigate it differently. Or if it was something that I just kind of had to walk through on my own. I don't know. We'll never know, right? We'll never know. But I do think I do think having conversations like you and I are having right now and like just opening up the dialogue to have a different picture in your mind of what postpartum could look like I think is really valuable because I think for so many of us yeah we only see kind of what Hollywood and the movies portray and like I said it's almost following that narrative that like a stork just drops off the baby and then

boom you're good to go back to normal like hosting family all these things and it's like no no no no it's it's pretty messy it's pretty vulnerable there's a lot of emotions hormonally is there's no way to escape that no there isn't i think that's the other thing is yeah like the desperation for wanting i think society has a desperation for wanting a quick fix to things and for wanting um any type of discomfort to just go away as quickly as possible and i think that's almost been a common theme in this conversation is being able to hold space for it all and the importance of feeling the uncomfortable things. And yeah. Yeah. And also, yes, it's true that the conversation about birth and supporting birth is changing. And I think in the US, there's the feeling of fundings being moved around to

pay more for doulas but in the other hand, not but, and in the other hand, again, they're looking for a fast fix, right? Like offering the pump,

offering a robot bassinet and it's like like oh my god you guys still don't get it no that is not what the mother needs yes that's convenient for her to go to work as fast as you

want her to go that was going to support her and the shocking thing is that mothers think that's what they need a lot of women but how could they not right that's that's the story that's been fed to us that's all we know right until until you are open to receiving conversations like this and hearing stories from other people's lived experiences. And I think that is why I'm such a big fan of storytelling and just the value that can come

from hearing someone else's lived experience. I think it's sometimes easier to learn from someone else's mistakes than to just be very bluntly like told how to do something um and so I think yeah like storytelling and just sharing just sharing like the real and the raw of the whole experience is a really really potent and powerful way to spread the message and like like you had pointed out, you already do this with your clients where you kind of paint that picture for them. Like that is storytelling in a way, right? Like our minds do such a better job, I think, at kind of trying to dissect and discern how we're going to handle something when that story is laid out to us and just thinking in my own like birth prep and even when when I was creating my birth prep course and like a big part of that was about visualizing

the good and the bad right and like and actually working through the worst case scenarios because if our mind has already gone through them then we're that much more confident to be able to handle them in in real life right and it sounds like that's exactly what you do with your clients and i think just all of that is so important just painting the picture painting more pictures telling more stories just all of it because there isn't just like a one a to do things. There isn't just one story that we're all living. Each of our stories is so unique. And this kind of just pulls it all back together. The fact that it's not so much about preparing for that one way, it's about

navigating and building your toolkit and your strategies and your support system so that you are best supported to navigate whatever story you're writing. Yeah, beautifully said. I would love to hear where people can find you on the internet. Yes. So on Instagram, as Latina Dula. Like I said, I'm now most of my content is in Spanish, even though I'm gonna leave a link where things can be found in English because I'm in the United States and I still want that road to be open. And I also offer, like I said, peanut pots inside the peanut app as an expert three times a month. Most there, most of them are in English, but I do have groups that are in English. One is called

journey to postpartum. And another one is ask a birth and postpartum doula or ask a doula is inside the peanut app. So yeah, that's how people can reach out and just DM. For people that don't know, what is the peanut app? So it's an application that is completely free that is basically dating for moms. It was created for moms to find other moms that are in a similar, like close to where they live and so to meet a mom friend, but on top of that,

you can have, you have access to the rooms or the pods that are created either by the people inside the app or by the expert with a specific topics. Actually in English, it's way bigger than in Spanish. There are people talking about sex after birth or during pregnancy or experts talking about lactation about a home birth about epidurals about hospitals about all the things so it's actually something it's a very useful app for moms to explore

yeah such a valuable resource i will i'll probably link that in the show notes too, so that people can find that if that's something they're interested in. Okay, before you go, I just wanted to say thank you for taking the time to listen to this episode. If you were thinking of anyone while listening, please send it their way. And if anything resonated with you, or you love these conversations, please subscribe and leave a review. This really helps the podcast algorithms put my show in front of more people just like you.

And the last thing, I would love nothing more than hearing from you. So say hi, DM me on Instagram and give me a follow at NicolePasvir. Until next time.