REWILD + FREE - The importance of having like-minded mom friends; and where not to seek advice, with Bekah RIchardson

Episode Date: May 2, 2023

Starting and ending friendships can be tricky to navigate,  especially as a mom! In this episode, I'm joined by Bekah (@radicallyrebekah) and we discuss adult friendships, specifically “mom friends” and how to put yourself out there to cultivate relationships with like minded people.Bekah shares her story of moving across the country with a newborn and having to start "fresh" in the friend department.  We dissect the difference between mom shaming, judgement or lack of support versus, being your authentic self and holding space for people who have contrasting values or opinions as you.We offer tangible strategies on how to make new friends, walk away from old ones and  how to be intentional in where you seek out advice! Bekah is a birthkeeper in Southern Alberta and an advocate for natural living and unapologetic motherhood Connect with Bekah on IG @radicallyrebekah or visit her website here Connect with Nicole on IG @nicolepasveer Want to co-host with Nicole on the show? Apply here Support the showConnect with Nicole on IG (@nicolepasveer) Want to be a guest on the podcast? Fill out this form

It's worse than dating because like dating kind of has like understood rules whereas like adult friendships like really don't. Welcome to the Not Just a Mom Show where we have open and honest conversations about the vulnerabilities and the victories within entrepreneurship and new motherhood. If we haven't met yet, I'm Nicole Pazier and I'm going to be your host. My hope is that this podcast serves as a safe space for me and inspiration for you to stop living life watered down. Together, we will uncover versions of our most potent selves where we show up unapologetically, intentionally, and without filter. We are worthy, just as we are, as all that we are, not just the label we put on ourselves. We are more than just a mom,

and I'm so glad you're here. So Becca and I found each other online on Instagram we were Instagram friends before we became friends in real life um but we are lucky enough that we live close enough that we actually got to meet in person so I don't actually remember I think I found you and I think in terms of like Instagram land it was kind of love at first sight for me I was like oh I love this girl like I need her in my world and we had like a lot of things in common um but yeah do you remember like how our friendship started um I don't exactly remember I know that like one of the biggest catalysts was just talking about Kylie's birth worker academy. And so you were chatting to me about that because I wasn't sure if I was going to hop on board or

not. And so that's like what got us talking the most. And then it kind of just like went from there. But in terms of who found who, yeah, I don't even know when we first started talking if I actually was even aware that you were like local to me yet so yeah but that was really fun but you're right like I think I had recently finished my doula training with Kylie and yeah you were thinking of enrolling in her next cohort so basically you're just looking for my honest review at the time and then I think things evolved to like hey wait a minute we actually have a lot in common. And we actually live like literally 30 minutes away from each other. Yeah. And then we were just like, let's be friends. And we just made it happen. Anyways, for those that don't know you, do you want to introduce yourself quickly?

Yeah. So I am Rebecca. I am most, you know, Nicole's in Calgary. So I am south of Nicole, moved here almost a year and a half ago now from Ontario, which is like was the best move of our life. I have a 20, we always do this for like, how old is our kid after like, I don't know, after a year, you're just like, how old is my child? Yeah, somewhere between one and two. I know he's almost 22 months. He is literally the best thing of my entire life. I'm also a birth doula and a birth educator online. And yeah, I'm just passionate, pardon me, about all things birth, motherhood, postpartum, and also like natural, like holistic living and doing things a little bit different. And yeah. That reminds me, you recently changed your handle on Instagram do you want to talk briefly about that pivot and kind of the rationale behind it and just kind of where you

see yourself going yeah so I started I only started my account in October of last year which is crazy. So about half a year ago, and I started as Empowered to Birth official. And the direction that I thought I was going was really heavy into birth doula work. And I saw myself doing like a birth a month. And that was just really my focus and then um I was starting to feel like kind of in a box and like I wanted to um I just wanted to be able to do more and show up in a different way and not only focus on birth even though I'm still focused on birth and also accepting that with my biggest priority being at home with my kid, being really heavy into in-person doula work just wasn't going to work for me long term. And so, yeah, I just was like, what do I do? Do I keep this birth account and make another account? And that was absolutely not encouraged for me because I don't have the time for that or the energy. And so, um, yeah, I made the shift to radically Rebecca and

it just gives me space to do whatever I want basically, and talk about whatever I want. And, you know, I am really, really passionate about health and nutrition and holistic living too. So it just gives me the space to talk about all of it and hope that, um, I guess it, it gives me a bigger reach. Like sometimes birth work has almost like a timeline on it. Like in terms of an online account, some people give birth and then they're kind of like, okay, well, thanks for everything. Like see you later. So I, I hope it, it allows people to stay with me longer term and kind of connect still. So yeah. I think it's cool because like you said, it does broaden your reach in the sense that there's not much of a timeline anymore for like when people kind of hang out in your world. But on the same like coin, it actually filters people out in a sense because now they

actually get to form like a deeper connection with you and see if their values align with yours and just kind of all those things. And that kind of leads into, I think what we're going to talk about is values and friendships and connections and motherhood and like all the things under that umbrella. But I think by you broadening your account and creating that space for you to talk about all the things and show up unfiltered, uncensored, and in the way that you do. Yeah, it really does just help filter people out so they can be like, yeah, I like I'm totally on board with Becca or no, she's not for me. And I think in terms of birth support, in terms of hiring a doula or birth worker to be at your birth, it is really important that they have that connection with you. So it's really cool,

because I think by you having this safe, unfiltered space for you to show up authentically, it's going to be that much quicker for people to kind of confirm if they actually connect and align with you or not. Yeah, it's so true. And it's so funny you say that because like right after I made that shift and I started to just like show up as like authentic as possible and just be super legit about who I am and like what is important to me. That was when I started to get way more inquiries and way more people reaching out and wanting to work with me. Which is so cool because obviously my fear of shifting away from, you know, before someone shared my post, it's in my name of like, oh, this girl's about birth. Like, I'm going to follow her because she's a birth account.

But when you see radically Rebecca, it doesn't mean anything to anyone. There's no like connection that's made in your in your head. And so, yeah, I was nervous. Like, I don't know, in terms of like business, this may be a bad move. And it turned out it wasn't. And we kind of like, we sort of know that like in the quote unquote business world of like, you know, when you are authentic, it brings good things. But yeah, it felt like a risky move. And it just, it just proved to be the right thing for me. Yeah. In terms of like business strategy, it's tricky because I feel like we're told

to niche down and be really clear about who your ideal client is and speak to them like they're like that one person. And I see all that, but I think it is also important, like in your case, to broaden things out in the sense that it's not just birth because birth is such a short time frame so I think it's awesome anyways okay so we kind of went back and forth a bit on the topic we wanted to talk about you had sent me a whole list of ideas and I joked that okay we're gonna have to have a whole like season just for Becca to come on and co-host with me because there's so many deep topics we can go down and you and I we like voice note each other probably oh literally almost daily throughout the week and we're like constantly going back and forth on some pretty deep topics whether it's related to like business

or motherhood or whatever it is like we're going through very similar journeys and we're at similar stages in our motherhood and business entrepreneur journey. So it's been fun to, I don't know, just bounce ideas off each other and kind of challenge the norm and yeah, just show up as authentically as possible, but with the cheerleading vibes from each other. So I've appreciated you for that.

We were going back and forth on what topic to discuss today. And I texted you this morning and said, Becca, what's on your heart? What's most alive today? And we narrowed it down to two. So why don't we just start? Let's talk about like adult friendships and making mom friends and all of that? Yeah. So it's almost easy for me to start because when I mentioned in my kind of intro, I moved a year and a half ago. And so when we moved, my little boy was four months old. And so we were like just starting a brand new chapter in like every way.

We moved across the country, but we also had just became a family of three. And so when I moved here, my brother and my sister-in-law live here. And other than that, I didn't know anyone here, didn't have any friends, like didn't have a community. And so I knew like, I'm going to have to build my own community. I'm going to have to find my people. And when I left Ontario, I had also been in a season of kind of moving away from some friendships that weren't serving me anymore and weren't they just weren't aligned and so it was really good timing but yeah so when I stepped off the plane here I was like all right like I'm not interested in becoming like now that I'm in the season of finding new people I'm not interested in finding people who are not aligned with me in some way. And that's not to say that we have to agree on everything, but there has to be some of those shared core values. And I'm not interested in... I was coming from some friendships where

I didn't feel like there was room for me to be authentic, especially as someone who doesn't necessarily share like super popular opinions on certain things. And so I was like, I'm not starting new friendships in my mid 20s in this new chapter in my life where I have to continue to censor myself and I can't be authentic and I have to walk on eggshells, you know? And so, um, yeah, that was really important to me. And so I was like, all right, well, how am I going to get connected? And, um, and what, yeah, it was almost like having to really decide like what is important to me in a friendship and you know like obviously like qualities in a friend you obviously want someone who's like kind and considerate and whatever but like I had to also really think like how important is it to me that we do see eye to eye on certain things and for me it is important and we've talked about this and we'll talk about it more today but it's like I think it can be really hard, I think, especially as like moms, just because there are so many

polarizing things, like, I do really see the value in being surrounded by mom friends who share similar stances on some of the big issues. And, yeah, and I I'm not again, it's not to say that you can't have any friends that think differently or that every friend has to be 100% the same. But yeah, like, straight up, like, I just am not finding myself in relationship with people who see who like, feed their child completely different than me, and approach sleep completely different than me. And almost think who look at my maybe challenges as a mom with my kid and see it as like self inflicted, because it's like, well, that's what you chose. And it's like, those aren't the people that I'm, I'm seeing myself surrounded by, you know? Yeah. And I think that's a big reason you

and I were able to connect past just like birth work and starting businesses is because we've been able to bounce some of those ideas and conversations off each other and actually like vent without feeling any judgment or like you said like as if things are self-inflicted like on the topic of sleep for example you and I can both message each other in the morning and complain about our really shitty sleep knowing that the other one isn't going to be like, oh, well, you should probably go sleep train your kid then. While you were sharing all that, I was just thinking about how obviously for you, because I think birth and entering motherhood, for me at least, it was just a huge catalyst in looking deeper at what my values are and what I truly believe and don't believe and just starting to like live in alignment. Like it was never as important to me until there was a tiny human that I was raising and having to make all these

choices. And so it just became very obvious that, okay, wait a minute, like the, the relationships I'm making are super important because if I feel like I need to filter myself or even, um, just not fully express like the things on my mind, then it's really hard to show up in those relationships the same way. Like I feel like it's almost more draining to show up in a relationship where you are constantly like worried about what the other might be thinking in terms of like your parenting choices, like you said, food, sleep, all those things things and I know I've had some trouble navigating some older friendships especially with friends that aren't moms yet because I think I mean it's hard like I'm not saying that it's just black and white they don't get it and like

I'm just at a different stage even though there is some truth to that yeah I think I mean with anything if you haven't been in a situation it's hard to get it fully right like you know even for us let's say we come from like a pretty with birth, we come from like a kind of more natural view of birth. But if you know, for, you know, I, it's a different perspective, if someone comes from like, Oh, well, you know, my baby, it wasn't even a choice. Like my baby was born at 28 weeks and was in the NICU for however long. And it's like, we can have empathy because we're not sociopaths, but we're not going to fully understand because we can't fully understand. And so I think it's just like

human nature. If you haven't been in a certain situation, you just don't fully get it. And so if you're a mom and, um, you know, you're you, maybe you cancel plans a lot because your kid is like a roller coaster and it just makes things unpredictable. And it's like to someone who doesn't understand that could easily just translate to like, well, she's my flaky friend. And it's like, is she flaky? Or does she have a kid who, you know, makes things a little bit more complicated? And, and I will say too, I have one girlfriend who my whole life, we've been friends, and I don't have those issues with her. And she doesn't have a child, just because she has that level of empathy and a desire to understand and give room for me to be the mom in the situation that I'm in. So I think it's like, it's multifaceted, right? Like it's part of it is like having friends who are in the same

life space as you is easier. But I also think that those friendships can work with people who are in different stages of life, but there has to be that willingness to understand where you're coming from, and vice versa, obviously. Yeah, I agree with that. And I think that's sometimes tricky, and I think people in this season of new motherhood often feel lonely and unheard and overwhelmed. is such a gap's not really the right word, but like there's just so much room for

differing of opinions that it's really easy to slide into the territory of like mom shaming and judgment. And even though I don't think that's any individual's like intention, especially towards their own friend. But I think, again, just like in new motherhood and you're, like, freshly postpartum and especially if it's your first and you have no idea what you're doing, the feelings of inadequacy are already so strong that I think any form of disagreement can sometimes feel like a personal attack on your own choices and actions. Or even not being supported in the way that you need, right? Like even if it's not a conflict or a disagreement or something like that, like blatant, even if it's just not having them show up in the way that you need to be supported and just not having your needs met. I think that that can also create like a bit of a division. And obviously there's room to be said, like, you know, you can communicate those expectations and needs and whatever. But first of all, I think most of us don't want to have to, and we don't want to, you know, I think there's a lot of us people pleasers

and whatever, but, um, I think it, it can feel like you're hurt just by them not thinking of those things. Right. Like, let's just say, for example, bringing you food freshly postpartum, like, and I mean, I think of when I didn't have a baby and I was the first of my, I had a baby young. So I was the first of my little any group to have a kid. So, um, but if I, if I wasn't, and there were people around me having kids first, it's like, I don't know how I would have shown up for them. Like I was probably clueless. Like, you know, I probably would have been the one to be like, well, at least your baby's healthy. Like I know your birth sucked, but I probably would have been that person because I just was

so clueless. And so, and that really speaks to that. There's not malicious intent usually, right? Like with people who love you, it's just kind of, it is that ignorance. But, um, yeah, it's funny. I don't know if you have more to say on that. she had her babies before me and when she had her first I literally questioned their sleeping arrangements and asked like well why why is your baby sleeping in bed with you why aren't you swaddling why are you sleep training and it's funny because a couple weeks ago she literally sent me the text just like to humor me because I've totally gone full spectrum on that and I will totally admit that like I simply didn't know like I was just following what I've been led to believe from societies um the the the social the social constructs that have been formed and the narrative that we're told especially in the media and stuff

about how babies should sleep I didn't know any any different. She had her babies in Europe. And so culturally, they just view things a little bit differently. So for her, it was normal. And thankfully, the village that she created over in Austria was super supportive of it. But me coming from a North American background, like I thought she was absolutely crazy. And like, so even for me now, preparing for motherhood, we're just going to get into sleep quickly. I wasn't intentionally going to bring this up, but in my own experience, preparing for motherhood, I would have been the first to say like, yeah, there's no way like we're having our kids sleep with us. Like that's totally going to wreck our relationship. That's going to just thinking of all the things that it's not a of why it's not a good idea and then once

I had Aubrey like literally the first night I couldn't put her down anywhere except me and we've basically co-slept since then and it's taken a lot of courage isn't really the right word but it's taken it's taken a lot of strength from me internally to consistently show up and do something that I feel like a lot of my inner circle doesn't understand even like my parents and like are in like my in-laws like it's not what they did back then and much like you like we a lot of our friends don't have kids yet so I'm constantly not explaining myself but if anything I'm almost just like not talking about it because I don't want to have to give my rationale and I don't want to have to educate. And it's very similar to how I approached my home birth. When I finally committed to planning for a home birth, I didn't tell anyone because I didn't want to be talked out of it. And so I'm kind of seeing the same things pop up for me in terms of co-sleeping and

we're still breastfeeding at 18 months. So extended breastfeeding or whatever they want to call it. I'm finding myself, I just don't want to talk about it because I guess there's this unconscious fear that I'm not going to be accepted or I'll have to over-explain myself. And I think this even goes deeper down to like people pleasing and good girl conditioning and not wanting to rock the boat and wanting to just fit in. Well, and also wanting to be like seen and accepted, right? Like we all want that. that um yeah well and that's like that's why I just think there's so much value in I think it's I would say it's essential to have like-minded friends and I'll give I'm trying to make myself

stop giving disclaimers so my final disclaimer is like of course you can have other friends and blah, blah, blah. But it is essential to have some people around you. Um, you know, even if it's online, but I got to say in person, it's different. It is just better. Um, who are like-minded and they are trying to to mother and just approach life in a similar way where they can bounce ideas off of each other. And it's like, even you and I, it's not like we agree on everything under the sun. And a lot of, some of our conversations are like challenging each other and our thoughts and stuff, but there's a sense of safety in sharing any of those thoughts and challenging each other. And, but there is like this sense of, you know, we just have a sense of peace maybe when there is conversation and not feeling like we have to

over-explain to each other and defend our choices. And, and I think that there's, there's a lot of power in that. And I don't think that, you know, motherhood is not meant to be alone and be done alone. Sorry. And so, you know, when you're saying like, you feel like you can't share X, Y, and Z, because people aren't going to get it, maybe even worse they're going to like come down on you it's like that's really tough and it's really isolating and so it's just so good to be able to have those people that you can go to and be like they just get it like they're my people I don't know about you but there's like definitely been times where I don't even want to go participate in some of the like mainstream like mommy and me groups or like I always see on Facebook like, oh, we're doing this like meet up on Wednesday at this time in this place. And I've shied away from those things because I'm almost just assuming that my people aren't going to be there and I think that has been I think that's been my coping strategy to keep myself safe just because I don't want to have the conversations where

there's a disagreement but I think it's also just because I guess past experiences have made me feel unsafe in those circumstances. And I don't want to put myself there again. And that's just perpetuating this like loneliness and this isolation. Yeah. And I think, I mean, there is something to be said about being intentional about where you do look for those friends though. Right. So I was at one of those. It was, um, it wasn't an official mommy and me group. We did swim lessons when we shortly got where we live now and we had met some people and we had stayed connected for a short time after just a short time. And this was the last time I saw some of them but it was a group of I think four

at just a little playhouse nearby and um it was all people who did have a lot in common and I was like the black sheep and um it was just a lot of the classic commentary of like, I can't wait to go back to work. I can't wait to get time away from my kid. Like, all we do every day is watch TV. I'm so bored. I miss adult interactions, like just really classic, you know, and I just really don't resonate with all of that. I don't want to go back to work. I don't want anyone else taking care of my kid. I get lots of adult interaction via online and hangouts and stuff because I. And yet, I felt like I was holding space

for them still, but I didn't feel like there was any room for me to say, Oh, wow, like, that sounds really hard, but also share my story. And the fact that I don't, I don't resonate with that. And I actually love being at home. And we don't watch TV. And we're super busy, like, not busy. And like, but we just keep ourselves occupied with things and baking and playing outside and whatever. And we're not bored. And I didn't feel like I was allowed to say that because I felt like it was going to come off as like, wow, Becca sure thinks she's better than all of us, you know? And, and, I feel like that's like kind of what you're talking about is like, that is what happened. And, um, that was kind of like a moment for me of being like, you just want people where there's stuff in common and there's those shared values. aspects of motherhood and especially if you're stay at home and whatever, or work from home, then, um, you want to be able to talk to people who are coming from that same kind of perspective, you know? Absolutely. How do we navigate this? Um, I, so, you know, my situation, like I said,

it was a bit unique because I was kind of starting over. Um, I would have, you know, sometimes I think of like, what would have, you know, sometimes I think of like, what would have happened if I stayed in Ontario? Like what have been, what would have been my next steps? But I think, um, I think you have to be really clear about what, what you want your friendships to look like. Like, what are you calling in and, and what are you bringing? Right. Like, what are you bringing to relationships because if you if you want um people to hold space for you and you want people to um to be able to be honest and authentic etc it's like, what are you offering? Like, are you authentic?

Are you being honest? Are you, you know, are you the kind of person who like, I don't know, won't let anyone come over unless your house is perfect or you don't want to share the bad stuff because it's too vulnerable or, you know, like, so you have to be willing to like offer what you want. You have to be clear on what you want to. And then, you know, in terms of actually making it happen. Gosh, for me, I'm like, how did I even meet all my friends here? So funny. The first friend I met here was she like worked for an MLM and she reached out to me. And it's so funny because like, I'm not anti MLM at all. Especially in this economy, like I totally get it. But I don't like when people reach out to me. Well, it's the classic Hey, girl message,

right? And we've all been victim to that. So I think we all have a sour taste in our mouth because of that. yeah okay so did she send you the classic hey girl message and you guys somehow made a friendship out of it nah yeah and I was so not interested and and I was kind of bummed because I just got here and I thought someone wanted to be my friend and so I was like I just wanted to sell you something I know and I was like you know I don't want shampoo but I anyway so it's so funny because now she's like one of my best local friends and um I was actually so lucky because she has sisters and sister-in-laws who um are like-minded

and so they kind of just brought me in and brought, brought my kid in with their cousins and just really welcomed us. And so that was kind of the starting of like my new friendships here. But, um, yeah, I mean, I definitely think that there's room to connect with people online. I think, um, a lot of places also do have like local, like natural minded groups. I think that that's a great idea. I started a local one. It's not kicking off yet, y'all. But if you're local and you want to join, it's called Natural Minded Mamas of Southern Alberta.

No, but I think there are some really big ones in some local places. And so I think online is a great place to start. And then, you know, if there's like certain activities locally, but I just like, there's a forest school here locally. And I would imagine that a lot of the people who send their kids there are pretty like-minded and, um, probably are making friends with each other. And so, um, definitely in today's day and age, like I think online is an awesome place to meet people as a starting point um and you kind of have to put yourself out there you know like you can't expect people to just find you when you're like staying in your house and you don't want to talk to anyone I think I've been guilty of that yeah I've totally been guilty of that.

But like I said, I think it's been my defense mechanism to just keep myself safe from having to potentially have those uncomfortable conversations. I think though I agree with you, like online is a great place to start because it kind of lets you filter out just some things that you can kind of tick off the box in your mind. Like, okay, yeah, like I'm the same or no, I'm not the same. And I don't think this is, I mean, we both hate labels.

So I don't want to start using out that people like go to the chiropractor or like you said, forest school or that they put butter on it. They put butter on everything, right? There's little things that just kind of help you clue in like, okay, like you kind of think the same as me. And I think like you said said at the beginning of this conversation, like there's a lot of things in motherhood that are quite polarizing, right? Especially, I mean, in the birth world for sure, but then sleeping, feeding our child, like all those things, vaccines, forming the relationship online first kind of gives you a safe opportunity to kind of test the waters to see if you want the relationship. It's almost like online dating, which I've never done. I don't actually know how it works, but we almost like an app where like you can swipe right if you have like similar values as mothers. We should create this app I know

it's like it's it's worse than dating because like dating kind of has like understood rules whereas like adult friendships like really don't yeah and so you know even um I think of last I think of this because Levi's about to turn two soon. And last summer we had, we were kind of like freshly to where we live now. And so like, we didn't have any friends. And so we had just finished swimming lessons. And I was like, I'm telling you, like I was seeking friendship. I'm like, I am going to build my community here. And so I got the numbers of every single person from swimming lessons and I invited everyone to Levi's birthday because we had no friends. And, you know, I just wanted to connect with people and I wanted Levi to be able to have friends and whatever. And and we're not friends. I'm friends with one person from there now.

And there was like, 10 people. And the reason that I say that is because yeah, I feel like with dating, you kind of just are like, I mean, some people will ghost you, that's an option. It's not a good one. But like, you know, they might just say like, hey, it's not you. It's not me. You're like, you know, I'm not looking for something right now or whatever. And like with friends, if you're like, know I'm not looking for something right now or whatever and like with friends if you're like you kind of like went on a couple like friend dates and then you're like you know what like this isn't for me um you're like well what the heck do I do now like how do I especially if you know maybe they want to keep hanging out um yeah friend rules, like making friends is really tricky. And what I want to say about that is, like the rules do apply still from dating in the sense that if someone, if you're just not feeling it, and you feel like you can't be yourself, or it's just like not a good fit or whatever. Like it's okay to just like stop.

Like it's okay to, you know, whether it fizzles naturally or you're like, I don't know, hopefully I don't have to have a conversation. It's honestly never fun, but like it's okay to kind of have like standards for your friendships and wanting to like have a certain like attunement and like level of authenticity and like if that's

not necessarily being met um it's okay to just like recognize that and kind of move on you know we've kind of talked about this like in previous conversations too where ending adult friendships hasn't really ever, for most of us, hasn't really been modeled to us. And so I think a lot of times it's this awkward situation of, yeah, you either just kind of let time go on and let things fizzle out naturally, or you have that super awkward conversation where you kind of feel like you're confronting the other person, but really you're just being honest and you're like hoping they feel the same way. But like, you can't just like break up with a friend. Like you can someone you've been dating for a couple of months. And I think that also makes it tricky navigating new friendships because it's almost like you're putting more on the line if there's

unspoken permanence to it. Does that make sense? Like it just feels a lot harder to get out sometimes, especially if the feelings aren't mutual. I know it is really tough when they're not. And yeah, it's true. And it can keep you from like even wanting to try. And on the flip side, it's like maybe, maybe you're the one who's like more into it and they want to break up with you as a friend like maybe they're just like you're too freaking intense or I don't know that's probably what people think about me but maybe me too if anyone's listening and you are like a friend of mine and you want to call it quits just let me know no hard feelings I'm a changed person I realize that motherhood has totally changed me to the point where like, I sometimes don't even recognize myself. Like a lot of, a lot of my values have changed

and I've been navigating that too, in the sense of, is this new or is this just like the true me? And I'm finally unshedding or is unshedding a word I'm shedding yeah unshedding no just shedding I'm shedding like layers of myself that I think probably came from like society society's like expectations and um just like all the conditioning that we're exposed to and so I'm shedding that I'm unlearning I'm I'm just digging deeper into who I really am and so for me that's unrecognizable so I can't imagine what that is for relationships with people that I've known for a long time well that's the thing is when you are coming from that perspective of there's a history. I mean, five-year-olds are like not five-year-old, but me five years ago, I wouldn't be friends with the current me. Yeah, me too.

Like I wouldn't be friends with you. you know, when you can realize that not getting on with someone and not like having that level of relationship, whether it's like an old friendship or a new friendship, it's actually really not personal. You know, like it's just not like you can't force yourself I mean you can try but you can't force yourself to like see eye to eye with someone you can't force yourself to like share core values you can't force yourself to grow in the same direction um and so yeah when when one person is just realizing like hey this isn't uh this just isn't flowing the way it used to. It's like, it's really not personal. But it's definitely tricky when most people don't think that way, right? Like most people aren't necessarily there yet. And so yeah, it's just it's really tricky. But that would be definitely like a piece of advice from me is

I don't think you should settle just like you're not gonna settle on relationships like with like romantic partners like I don't think that you should settle when it comes to friendships especially in your like true like adult life like it's just not we don't have time for it when I think on like the topic of showing up authentically I think that means being able to be true to yourself that you're able to have the awareness and acknowledge when certain relationships aren't vibing because otherwise it just becomes either a waste of energy or even a draining of your energy to continue cultivating that relationship with that person and so I think I don't know if anyone needs to hear this here's your permission slip that you don't need to stay friends with the same people you were friends with before you

became a mom. I think it kind of goes on the same, just like this, the same conversation of like bounce back culture where there's almost this expectation that we go back to our old lives, whether that's our physical body, whether that's our career, whether that's our hobbies. And I think relationships fall under that umbrella too. And so yeah, permission to not have, like you don't have to jump back into that previous version of yourself. Like instead of resisting the evolution that is naturally happening within you, surrender to it. Just go along for the ride because you are becoming your best self by doing so. And I think it's also an amazing way to model authenticity to your babies.

And what better way to slowly make a change in the world and let that ripple out to future generations? I love it. That gets me fired up. Yeah. And, well, and the thing is, too, is, like, everything's a season, right? away from friendships potentially. I think sometimes it's seen as this like very dramatic, very final, close the door, throw away the key. And it's like, you know, I've got some friends that since becoming a mom, it's like, yeah, we're not, we're not super vibing, but it's like, I'm totally open to, you know, in another chapter, like maybe, maybe it's vibing again, like maybe it's a better fit.

But what I will say, and this is, um, I think this was a real turning point realizing this is that one of the best ways that you can honor a friendship, especially when you're talking about like long-term friendships where there's a lot of history and stuff and you have changed, one of the best ways that you can honor that friendship is by walking away before it like gets dirty, you know, or gets muddy. Because I think that over a long period of time, if you're really not seeing eye to eye on things, and there's kind of starting to be some hurt feelings or you feel like you can't be yourself or you're working walking on eggshells or maybe you're arguing or whatever um there's a higher chance that then that friendship is actually going to end on bad terms instead of you just parting ways lovingly and so yeah I think that really it's it's actually some sometimes when it's the right thing for you to do, it's actually a really great way for you to honor the history that you have and say like, I love you and I love the friendship that we had.

And I love it so much that like I have to tell you that this just isn't really working out for me right now and I have to walk away. Yeah. And I think, like, I totally agree with that, but I also think, well, one, it's easier said than done, especially for people pleasers who really just don't want to have that kind of confrontation. Because that's the thing is it feels like confrontation, even though it's not like by not saying that you are doing a disservice to yourself. And I think that's where it's important to kind of have that perspective shift and truly honor yourself and your own needs. Yeah. The other thing I was going to say with that is you brought up that maybe it's like a season and maybe you two just aren't vibing in this

current season, but maybe you can kind of rekindle the relationship later on. And I think that's especially true maybe for friendships where the other half of the relationship isn't a mother yet and is just at a different stage in their life because I think there is a lot to say about having friends who are other mothers like it's just yeah there's a different depth to it but that doesn't mean you have to stop being friends with everyone that's not a mom right it just means that you just need some friends who are like that you know, my childhood friends since I've been six is single, not a mom. She's been gallivanting in Thailand for the past four months, literally doing God knows what. And she's one of my best friends, you know, we're in a completely different stage of life. Like that's what I was doing like four and a

half years ago, you know? Um, and, but we love each other. And, and this is the key thing is like, one, those are not the only kinds of friends I have that she's kind of the exception to the rule, but, but she's willing to make the effort also to understand my life and where I'm coming from and also like involve herself with other moms is that there just has to be that room for, um, an openness to understanding and like really seeing that person. But yeah, I mean, if you're a mom, like you need mom friends, like it's so important and you need mom friends who see you and get it and aren't going to gaslight you because you're making different choices and aren't going to question you and make you explain yourself. And, um, and mom friends who you can also go to, right. And, and get advice from and guidance. And, um, that's actually the other

thing we were going to talk about is like mob groups on Facebook like come on yeah it's it's funny to think about but I'm sorry if we're calling anyone out because we've probably all been guilty of this in some sense but um Becca gave the perfect perfect example over text when we were chatting yeah well it's just it's just, it's just this idea that like, so let's say, let's just assume you're in like, a local mom's group. That's probably like the most common, right? So like, let's say you're in Calgary mom's group. There's, I don't know, 12,000 people in it. They all have different stories. You don't know basically any of them. And you're like a new mom. And you go on your mom group and you're like, I like, I don't know what to do about this. Like, okay, here's an example, actually, that I saw someone was asking where they should give birth. I don't know where I should give birth. I don't know if I should have a hospital birth or a home birth. And I was like, this is not, you should not be here. Like, and here's the thing. This is why is that you are coming to a place with thousands, tens of thousands of other

women who, you know, how many of them 50, 80, 90% of them don't share the same values as you, who don't view birth the same way, maybe, who don't view motherhood the same way, who don't view drugs and the system and anything the same way as you, and you're coming to them for advice on such a big decision. And here's the thing, no, I don't want to be calling anyone out I know why it happens it's exactly what we're talking about people don't have community right this this is I'm gonna I'm gonna guess safely that this is a person who maybe she doesn't have a lot of other people around her who have given birth or um maybe she's new to the area she doesn't have local friends maybe she doesn't know uh the local midwives the system I don't know

so there's a gap right and that's why she's there and that's why she's asking but of course she's getting the most polar opposite wild advice from every different person. No one's stopping to say, well, what do you think you should do? Well, what feels right to you? Well, what's important to you? Is autonomy important to you? Is a physiological birth important to you? This is just one example, of course. But my point is, why are you coming to get advice from a bunch of strangers who don't know anything about you

don't know anything about what's important to you and you don't know what's important to them um you don't know like you just you don't know the perspective that they're coming from and if you guys even share the same values and what's important to you. And so I think that there can be a place for some of that, especially if there is a gap and maybe you're in the middle of building your community and you just don't have that. And maybe you don't have sisters or maybe you just don't look up to them or whatever it is. But I think that we have to be really careful who we're seeking advice from. And if we are seeking advice to understand that everyone's coming with all of their bias and all of their perspectives and all of their own values and trauma sometimes, a lot of times. And so, you know, personally, there's one great, I'm in a lot of Facebook groups for a lot of

different reasons. There is one Facebook group where I will ask questions from, and it's because most of the moms in there are in alignment with me, look at, are very holistic, have the same approach to life, you know, attachment style parenting, co-sleeping, breastfeeding, etc. And if I'm looking for, you know, some kind of specific advice on, you know, let's say my kid's got eczema, I need help. What's your advice? I know that they're not going to tell me to put him on steroids for the rest of his life, you know? Or treat a fever with Tylenol. Yeah, exactly. And that's just all to say a huge, a huge tangent to just say that there is a gap for a lot of people, people are missing those community aspects, and they are isolated, and they're looking to fill that gap. And I just, I guess my point is to just caution people, bring it back to where we said that

online is an awesome place to meet friends. It can be, but I would caution you that when you are seeking those things out, um, and that community and just even advice to, to really be mindful of where that advice is coming from. And yeah, I just think, you know, mom groups are tricky, especially I think for the first time, new mom, which I think is, you know, a large portion of who are in those groups. Yeah, I just I think you kind of have to protect yourself and be really careful. Yeah. Two things to add to that is, like you said, it's often that new mom. And I think it's important to understand and have compassion for yourself if you are in that place

in that season of your life that you are extremely vulnerable and you are literally like wide open. So I think it really is important to protect your space. And that does mean, yeah, just being very intentional with who you're having those conversations with. And the second thing I wanted to add is just that there isn't a lot of space for nuance online. And so what someone might be saying can very easily be interpreted as something different. And like Becca said, like you just don't know what their experience is, what biases they hold, what trauma they've experienced, what they might be projecting. It just gets really complicated. So yeah, find your friendships online, but find your friendships online carefully. Not the most helpful advice.

Yeah. And if you are in a mom group and you're giving advice, try to give advice in the context of what someone's asking. Yes. Okay. So I have a good example here. In one of the mom groups I'm in, someone was specifically reaching out. She was freshly postpartum, literally had like a three or five day old newborn. She was reaching out to her virtual community for breast milk donations. And I kid you not, 90% of the comments were, your baby needs food, you need to go get formula now. You are not making the right choices. Literally attacking her choice as a mother to want donated breast milk instead of going to the store and get formula. And I think that's just a perfect example because she was specifically reaching out for breast milk. She wasn't reaching out for,

oh, I have a hungry baby. What should I do? It was very specific. And then she wasn't supported. So I can only imagine what she's walking away from that and feeling completely unheard, completely unsupported, and probably questioning her own choices and just feeling even more inadequate. Yeah, that's the thing. It's like, you know, especially when you're vulnerable and you're in that new postpartum phase, how are you supposed to hear yourself and your own voice and your own intuition and wisdom when you're spending all day, especially while you're like breastfeeding or like up at night or whatever scrolling mom groups and and mom accounts and whatever that are just like noise noise noise noise noise noise like cancel out your voice cancel out your voice um you have to be

really careful yeah because it's really easy I think especially when you are vulnerable and there's hormones and there's so many things to start forgetting like what your voice even sounds like. And you might hear someone else's voice and be like, yeah, okay, like, okay, maybe that maybe that is what I'm supposed to do. Or, gosh, like maybe I am starving my child and I should just give them formula, right? Like, so I think that you got to be, if you are missing that community temporarily and there is a gap, I think you have to be really intentional with the noise and the voices that you do let in. Yeah. I think just to wrap this up, unfortunately, culturally, we are almost living in a time where we lack culture, right? We are so far away from a lot of the traditions

of being able to lean on a community of our aunties and our sisters and our grandmothers. And like, that's just not there and so we have to meet reality with where it is and that means we do have to build our own village and I mean your example your experience is a perfect example because you literally physically relocated yourself and had to start fresh all this to say it's just so, so important to be intentional with who you are letting in your space and who you are allowing to be as part of your village. And it's tricky because it can feel really, really isolating if you're not finding those people. Yeah, it absolutely can.

And I hope, I mean, I hope that my story like is encouraging to people in that I actually started from nothing, you know, like I had no connection to anyone at all. And I can honestly say that a year and a half later, I don't need more friends here. Like I'm open. I'm always open to meeting new friends. Nicole and I are fairly new friends, but I don't need more friends. Like I genuinely feel very full and very content with the circle that I have around me. And which is like, like I could almost cry about because I just feel so grateful. But how much more is that accessible to you? If you're somewhere where you're already plugged in to a church, you're already plugged into, I don't know, maybe you're in post-secondary or you're already plugged into whatever activity you do or whatever community, if you have your foot in like any

one of those doors, you're already ahead of me. So I think that, you know, you, you can do it. And I think that it is easier said than done. Absolutely. And I think I got a little bit lucky too. But I think that it's definitely possible. And I think that you also have to, you know, I love to talk about radical responsibility responsibilities like take responsibility for your side the energy you're putting out what kind of friend you are and even just kind of like how open are you and how approachable are you when you're out in public and if you're at the library or you're wherever you are at the coffee shop like are you being approachable are you open are you are you calling in those people into your life you know

yeah I think yeah you nailed it on the head like you can't just keep existing and hoping that these people find you if you're not making yourself visible. Yeah, I think that like, if we were to like summarize real quick, like, be the person and the energetic force and the friend that you want to be and truly call in or pray for or manifest or whatever your thing is, the people that you want and get clear on the people that you want in your life and don't settle for less. And, you know, again, it's like, show up the way that you want other people to show up and so be radically authentic and and you know hold space for people and their unique experience and you know I think people are can be really drawn to that you know I think sometimes if people are maybe you know struggling with some stuff they may not be because that may be too intimidating and that may be too much for them.

But for the people I think that you're wanting to call in, grocery store, like literally everywhere you go. I do genuinely believe that those people are going to be attracted to you and they're going to find you. I love this because I feel like this is awesome advice in motherhood, but it's also awesome advice in business. And you kind of started off the conversation when you talked about your shift online and going from empowered to birth official to radically Rebecca and just how, as soon as you can create space to show up more authentic, it allows more people to come to you and it just makes you more magnetic. And so, yeah, that's true in the real world too, just as much as it is in business. I think that's cool. Okay. I'm going to

stop recording or I'll say bye. This is like, it's so awkward to end. Just like, it's so awkward to start. That was so funny. That was fun. Thank you, Becca, for being on the show. I'd love to have you on again soon because like I said, we have a whole list of conversations we'd love to have and to record and to just like dive deep on. So this is not goodbye. This is a see you later. 100%. Thanks for having me on. Okay, before you go, I just wanted to say thank you for taking the time to listen to this episode

if you were thinking of anyone while listening please send it their way and if anything resonated with you or you love these conversations please subscribe and leave a review this really helps the podcast algorithms put my show in front of more people just like you. And the last thing, I would love nothing more than hearing from you. So say hi, DM me on Instagram and give me a follow at Nicole Pazier. Until next time.