RHAP: We Know Survivor - Alec Merlino Talks Angelina Keeley & Mike White | The Survivor 50 Files

Episode Date: June 27, 2025

Survivor 50 Files returns with Brandon Donlon and special guest Alec Merlino from Survivor: David vs. Goliath. The duo dive deep into the potential gameplay of returning players Angelina Keeley, Mike White, and Christian Hubicki in the upcoming Season 50.

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and use our discount code 50FILES. That's five zero F-I-L-E-S or 10% off your order. Discount code is 50FILES, five zero F-I-L-E-S. Let's get to the show. What is going on everybody? We are back with another episode of Survivor Files. My name is Brandon Dobson and we're here to talk Angelina and Mike. Mike White, my favorite Survivor contestant of all time and Angelina, the person I think

I'm most excited to see on season 15. I'm so thrilled to talk about both of them and we're joined by a great guest, a Goliath, a friend of Angelina and Mike, star of The White Lotus, season one, Alex Merlino. Alex, how you doing? Not a star, not a star. A star? Come on, huck. Did you say you said you were most excited to see Angelina in 50?

I'm most excited to see Angelina. How come? Angelina's good TV. And that's one of the things I wanted to ask you is like, when you're see Angelina. I'll come. Angelina is good TV. And that's one of the things I wanted to ask you is like when you're with Angelina that whole time, are you, can you tell that this is going to be like magical TV? Was that a hunch that you had? I mean, I had never done a TV show, right? So like, I was kind of just, I think there was a lot of things I was oblivious to.

There weren't like certain things that I thought, oh, this is going to be great TV. But I don't know, like, yeah, when you say Angelina's, you're most excited to watch her. I think oftentimes, I think a lot of us are curious as to like, is she going to kind of turn a new page or try to take on a new strategy? So it's tough to say if she's going to be like the same, you know, and I'm so sure she'll still be entertaining and in some regard, but yeah,

that should be interesting. Yeah, I'm excited to see, you know, do you think it's going to be like the same? Or do you think she's gonna kind of change in some ways? I, you know, well, you played survivor now eight years ago, which I just talked to Gabby yesterday in some ways. I, you know, well, you played survivor now eight years ago, which I just talked to Gabby yesterday in eight years was a, it was a big, oh my God, it's been eight years. But I'm excited to see like Angelina's, you know, evolving in terms of like, she has a whole new life. I mean, she has two kids, she's got, you know, a career.

I think she, I don't know if she was married when she went on, but now she's married, you know. So I'm excited to see what that personality that we knew when we watched what that turns into. But Angelina is hungry. Angelina wants to win, which is everybody in this group wants to win because they're obviously they're back. But I think Angelina is a little bit more, maybe I don't, haunted is the wrong word. But I think Angelina really wants to define herself in a way that other people want to just be their same person. But I think Angelina is like looking to evolve and change up her game a little bit. I agree. Yeah, we chatted about it before she left.

What was that like for you? I was excited for, you know, she was the only one I knew about. I was excited for, you know, she was the only one I knew about. And then Christian and Mike, I kind of heard after the fact. But I mean, come on, like. If I mean, you know who who's getting invited back, like I wasn't surprised if I had to, like, look at our cast and and choose. Three players like they would have been the three players. What's interesting about your season though is you have like eight or nine people that could make a case, including yourself for going back just because you guys are such a good group. I think. Davey, I'm sure I don't know what there I know Davey was pretty outspoken about not getting

invited back on. Although I think he went through that process. I'm not really sure I'm not like super plugged in with the survivor world. But yeah, I don't know. I mean, I don't think I had a I think my like archetype or call it what you will. I'm like, Come on, like me. I don't think I don't know if there was a case for that. I was just, you know, it's just kind of, yeah, I people people people will say that. How come you didn't? I'm like, bro, there's there's no chance. I'm like, I don't think I was ever probably on that list, which I'm like, I'm totally cool with. I'm stoked. I got to, you know, like yourself live the experience. I don't know how you feel about

the whole it feels like a dream at this point, you know? I watched a YouTube video of you talking about your survivor experience and you said that you said that it feels like a dream. And I think your quote was like, you can never get it back. You know, you can't relive it. It's just, it's, it's gone, you know? Yeah, which is kind of good in a way, you know, it's like, you kind of just like, want to leave it. People are like, would you play again? I'm like, I don't know. I don't know if I would. It's kind of like, you know, it's kind of like dating someone. Like once you've like dated them and like you cut it off, like don't try to go back.

Cause then you kind of ruin it. And so I just feel like with Survivor, like I enjoyed the experience so much. And at least like being out on the Island with the people that I was with and the cast. And like, that's what I have in my head. And so to kind of trace back over that, I don't know if, if, if, I don't know, like, you know.

The dating analogy is interesting is like, do you go back and watch it? Like are you looking at old pictures of the X? Are you looking at the videos? Have you seen clips of when you were on in the past eight years or done a full rewatch? Yeah, like, of course, there's times I draw back right on Survivor. Like I use analogies like that perched challenge is a big one that I use in life of, oh, I stepped off. And if only I knew what I knew now, I never would have stepped off that that purge.

But I was a little younger and my ego was probably bigger and so yeah that kind of haunts me too right because I didn't really I think I don't know if I told people but you know I'm not very like money motivated I don't even know what I would have done with a million dollars at that time probably given like a lot of it to my parents but I just wanted to make it to that loved ones visit. So that stupid purge kind of haunts me. Like, why did I step off? So yeah, to answer your question, I'll go back and just see the little YouTube clips, but I've never gone back and watched Survivor.

I watched it once through when it aired, you know, with family and friends for the viewing parties and then I've never gone back and watched it. Not that I'm, I think it's like cringe or I said anything or acted in a way that I, that I'm like embarrassed of. But again, I don't know. It's just, I'm like, it's like, you know, it's just an experience that I, that I have. And I'm like, I don't need to go back and watch it. Have you kept up at all? Have you seen Survivor since your survivor? Have you been relatively tapped out of watching the newer stuff? Yeah, I've been I've been pretty tapped out. And that's not it's weird, right?

Like, I was always super into Survivor before I went on. And then I don't know, I don't know. Maybe it's because the format, I'm just not a huge fan of the format. To be completely honest, I'm not gonna lie, like 26 format, I'm just not a huge fan of the format to be completely honest. I'm not gonna lie. Like 26 days, I'm like, ah, um, and then maybe the just all the twists and again, though, this is, you know, objectively speaking, and I don't know how other people feel about it. But well, you know what you mentioned that the perch challenge, which now they don't know how other people feel about it, but. Well, you know what you mentioned that the Perch Challenge, which now they don't do that anymore because of the 26 days is you can't have a challenge that runs for

five hours because of the shooting schedule. So you're missing out on stuff like that, which that generated. One of the best moments in the show is seeing it's you contrasted with Christian of how badly you want to win. And then Christian is also wants to win badly, but it's talking about, you know, what he talked about, you, you can hear, I'm sure you can hear the sandwiches, the macarons, you were there. Um, but you, you miss that when they shrink it a little bit, which is a bummer

because then you're taking away moments that the shortened timeline doesn't affect me as much in terms of the days and the cycle, the game feels similar, but when you're missing out on moments that are organic that happen like that, I feel like it's a hard thing to justify. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's to your point, I've never thought about it that way. Right? I know that there's other ways they have of kind of grinding people down, getting them

to get emotional and rolling roll, which is through just like they don't even give them food. No food. Yeah, which is, you know, that's gnarly. And I know there's people that are like, well, the gameplay is kind of goes faster because there's less there's less time. But I don't know. Yeah, I don't even know. I just like, I don't know if that's the reason I don't watch it or, or maybe it's because I'm like, I got the experience and that's that. And I kind of want to disconnect from it a bit, you know? How do you think with now eight years, you know, older, how do you think you would do now? Like what has changed now in your life that if you played tomorrow, what's different?

Uh, you know, it was interesting when I, when I went on the show and, and I was on the boat and on the, like my tribe, I remember looking around and thinking like, oh my God, bro, like I'm out of here. I'm the first one out of here. There's no way. Why? Like, I'm out of here. I'm the first one out of here. There's no way. Why? Just because everyone was like clearly older and I don't know, I was like a bit insecure about what I was doing probably at the time. You know, they're kind of like, like when you go through castings, you're alone, right? And so they really do a good job at making you feel like special. And I went in, in my head, I'm like, oh yeah,

like I can do this, charming, whatever. And then I get on the show and I'm listening to everyone talk about what their, yeah, what their jobs are. And I was just like, oh fuck, like dude, these people are way smarter than I, like there's just no chance I'm gonna make it even a week into this show.

It's so funny you say that Gabby had told me before I had known Gabby before I went on Survivor. And she told me like, it's like in high school, you think you're the funniest person in your high school, and then you go to college, and then everybody's funny. It's like, Oh, my God, like, I thought that my accomplishments were at that level. So you enter and you're on the pregame. Gabby also talked about this where she could kind of suss out a David versus Goliath thing because the Goliath people in the pregame kind of had this aura about them.

Did you feel that when you saw the people that ended up being on your tribe? You know, I think everyone could agree. I kind of, I really like checked out during that pregame and I didn't look at anyone. I didn't know it was like a thing like people would pregame before. So I wasn't again, yeah, to the to the point of like, what would I do different? Or maybe it was just I was just younger, right? Like I was just like, I'm going out on this island. That's all I was thinking about. It's like island and challenges. I wasn't like, gameplay wasn't in my head. And so it wasn't something I paid attention to. I kind of just looked at it.

And I mean, you know, you don't know the theme. I didn't know David versus Goliath. It wasn't like, does someone have an aura? Does someone not? There was like one guy who stood out, which was Pat. He like, he said something funny. Him and I both were like on the beanbags one night. But this is when we're not allowed to talk. And I think he was just trying to milk the time and ponderosa because he didn't want to go sleep

in his tent. And so I was reading a book and he's on the beanbag and he like was like this, he was clearly passed out snoring and like one of the you know like I don't know what what do you call the the people that kind of walk around and they have the earpiece in the handlers producers handler producer kind of walks up and kind of like nudges him he's like oh he wakes up she's like hey you gotta go to bed like you were falling asleep he's like no no I wasn't falling asleep. He's like, I was, I was praying. That was like my only memory like on pre-game. I'm like, that guy's funny, dude, but he never even ended up being on my tribe. But no, no, like nobody enjoys a bad Q-Sack story more than I do. I love everything I hear about him. Yeah, he's a good dude. This episode of Rob Has A Podcast is sponsored by Better Health.

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on your schedule. As the largest online therapy provider in the world, Better Health can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. Unwind from work with BetterHelp. Our listeners get 10% off their first month at BetterHelp.com slash RHAP. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P, dot com slash RHAP. I guess long-winded answer. To answer your question, what would I do different? I guess it's just probably like yourself. I'm sure you have things that you may be like, I would do this just outside of gameplay.

Just as a human being, I've changed. I would like to think I've learned a lot of experience more. I had like all the experience and like the travel and I felt like I was like, I'd like to think I'm a genuine, authentic, personable individual. And I carried that with me on the first scene of Survivor. And I think now it would just be like, just be a little more intuitive with conversations, chat with everyone, pay attention more. So there's just those things, right? And navigating the social politics of Survivor wasn't something I was great at.

Wasn't really like, yeah, go ahead. In that same video that I watched, you say that you went in and you didn't understand how Jeff said like, play like it's your second time. But I feel like you did do that without knowing that Jeff, like I feel like for super fans who hear that, they have to turn on the switch of like, oh, I should play like it's my second time.

You did that on your first time without knowing that Jeff says. I think that like I certainly, I went in, you know, like the, the whole challenge thing, right? People like challenge that people are say to me that was like, even Mike said it. He's like, you just needed to like chill out on the challenges but in my head I was just thinking well you know I could get voted out second, third, fourth, fifth, whatever and like I would hate to look back and think to myself and I didn't even go full you know full blast on the challenges so I was like you know what screw it if I get voted out like whatever but this is like huge part of the reason I came here. I love doing these challenges.

So that was like that. But the second time, I mean, I did like, I think you're probably referring to to like that vote with Natalia. I mean, to be completely honest, I don't even think, I think like half of it, I know Mike was like, you were just trying to make a big move, which like, it wasn't the case. It was just me genuinely, no, I didn't trust Natalia. And I think I got gamed by Davey a bit in that moment, because he's like, oh, this would be like perfect.

So yeah, it was just, I think I like, oh, this would be like perfect. So yeah, it was just I think I was again, it's just like a lack of life experience. I went into that show. I know there's people like that that were younger that have gone on that show that played way better than I did. But yeah, I think some of it was just. What do you call it? Reckless?

Road reckless is fun. Reckless is good TV. Gabby also mentioned, playing with Mike, tell me about your first Mike White interactions on the first couple of days. I know that you had said that you didn't know his career pre-Survivor, but tell me about learning about him without the air of him being who he is. Yeah.

Okay. So I remember, I remember pregame what we were talking about. I saw Mike walking around. He always had this gray and black James purse hat on. And the only reason I know about that brand is I saw at one time it was like a big this hat was like circulating the... This hat was circulating the internet. Justin Bieber wore one. I see Mike with one. So in my head, I was like, Oh, this guy must have money. It was like they're expensive hats. That's all I guess

what I'm trying to say. So my perception of Mike was like, Oh, I wonder where this guy's from. He's probably like a dad, whatever. That was it. That was the extent of it. And then we get on the show. And I remember, I think it was like night one, or sorry, day one, Allison and I are Yeah, we're digging a hole for we're trying to build the shelter. And she's like, I want to work with you. I like you. And then she goes, we can't trust Mike. And I was like, which one's Mike again, that guy. And I'm like, why not?

And she goes, he's just like, he can weasel his way in. She said this, like, and he, obviously this is day one. So they ended up becoming friends and they worked together, but this was her perception and she's telling me this. She's like, also he was on Amazing Race. And I was like, oh, OK, like, cool. So that was that. And I kind of just like, let it go. I always felt good about Mike. He was funny. He was cool.

You know that when you're there, you need somebody funny, like a funny presence like distracts you from the sock of it all. Yeah. And I think he knew that, too. Right. Like, he's like, oh, there's there's certain things that are like social currency within the game and like funny is one of them. Like, you know, you're spending so much time out there. And I think that was maybe one of the things that I unconsciously had going for me is,

I don't know, I feel like I made things pretty lighthearted and had fun out there and people probably enjoyed that. But yeah, Mike was just a fun dude. And then it was around, I don't know, maybe a weekend. He kind of bonded. We were just chatting about traveling and stuff. And then I think it was around two weeks in when, when someone told me he was, he was a writer and was on School of Rock. Again though, like I never, people made jokes, like Jeremy made jokes. He's like, I got like, you know,

Mike's undivided attention. Like I'm not playing the game of survivor. I'm playing the game of life. Like, and like, but I never put those things together. Like in my mind, like, you know, you're out on the island, everyone's equal, dude. I'm not thinking about what someone does back at home. It just felt like we're all equals here. We're at summer camp.

I wasn't thinking about Mike. I certainly wasn't thinking about White Lotus or what I could get out of the dude because none of that was a thing. And Mike knows this. Him and I became homies on that show. I was like, bro, you were him and, you know, a lot of the people, I'm like, you just bond it were just homies. It doesn't matter if he was like a writer or actor or whatever.

I feel like we would have the same relationship no matter what coming out of that show. Yeah. And it's interesting now. He's going back with this air of everybody wants to spot on the show. Everybody wants your spot on the show. Yeah, I know that's going to be an interesting thing. I wonder like, because of as, as aware of it, as you and I are, I'm sure people on the show are going to be aware of it, but it'll be interesting because I'm sure, you know, like, let's say you and I are in the show and we're watching Mike talk to someone, we'd probably be like, Frick

bro, like, do you think he's kind of like using the white lotus? And then you and I would probably be sitting there saying, we can't fall into that trap. Like, do we got to get this guy out? Is he too dangerous? Or are there going to be people who kind of like cling on to that currency that he has and that he can offer? I don't know. Has seeing him on the White Lotus set the times that you've gone there, has that given you like more of an appreciation for his survivor game? Like, I'm sure you're seeing him like, I mean, you're seeing him direct and you're seeing

him produce. Like is that orchestrating all of that? Does that make you think he is a better or reaffirm what you already thought about his survivor game? Yeah, I would certainly say I never really like understood what it was Mike did. I mean, I've never been in that world, you know, but I do remember when we were waiting during a, I think it was like before a challenge. And he's like, I'm so over this, like people telling me to not talk and shut up. And then he was like, I'm used to being in charge of like hundreds of people when I was

like, what do you mean? He's like, oh, like on set and stuff. I still didn't get it. I can't like I couldn't even picture it in my head, you know, because I've not I've never been in Hollywood. I've't like I couldn't even picture it in my head, you know, cuz I'm not I've never been in Hollywood I've never been on a set and then when we went to Hawaii and I saw I was like, oh, whoa now I get it you know and Yeah, I mean his game

I think the reason he was so good is he just understands people like he's used to dealing with So many different personalities, especially in Hollywood in a world that in a world that and this isn't to like make a statement about it, but it's Hollywood. Like there's a lot of egos in Hollywood. Everyone knows that like it's obvious. And so Mike's it's just a fact. He's good at he's good at dealing with all those different types of personalities. He gets it. And then you get on Survivor.

There's a lot of egos on Survivor. People are ground down to their wits end. And then you need someone who just understands people. And that was Mike. He just gets it. Just like knew it was just like applying that same blueprint. If anything, it was probably easier for him. He's always had the social, but the streets are saying and you have seen him more recently than than I have or anybody has.

But the streets are saying that he's jacked. Is Mike White Jack now? Oh, like, like physically jacked. Jack. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he's always, you know, that guy's way he he undersells himself. He's he's an athletic dude. Like you saw him win challenges. Every time he was on a group challenge,

I don't think he ever lost. Like he was always just like, he just plays into it. Like if he wanted to do some of these things, like the hero spot and the challenge, he could have easily done it. I think he kind of just like all crews in the middle of the pack, I don't wanna be like labeled as a threat, because he is.

He's like, if you're in Hawaii, I was doing pull-ups one day kind of just like all crews in the middle of the pack. I don't want to be like labeled as a threat because he is he's he's he's like a you're in Hawaii. I was doing pull ups one day and he was walking back from set. I wasn't working that day and I was just doing pull ups and push ups and he jumped in. He was just cranking out pull ups with me. I'm like damn bro. And then like when we when we went back to Fiji and we've done all this stuff like scuba diving together like water skiing all these like things and he's just like no problem at all.

So he's super athletic and yeah, he is Jack. He works out hard. He's got this personal trainer, Ho Ho, he's super cool and he's always out like in Thailand with him and so he's just dedicated. It's like every day and then he's got his like food all dialed. So yeah, we got to get Ho Ho on here. I'd love to talk to Ho Ho if Ho Ho is reachable. He'd be sick to talk to.

I mean, yeah, someone who spends like, especially on set. They spend so much time together. Yeah. When you were on the White Lotus set, were people aware at that point that you guys were from Survivor together? Did they watch? I've always wondered if the actors are all coming in having watched Mike play Survivor.

Yeah, I think like, I want to say it's like a joke now. I know on, I can't say this for certain. If Mike, I know he kind of throws it out there, he'll joke with the new cast of White Lotus coming in like, hey go watch my season on Survivor. And so I can remember I went to Italy, I went out there and some of the people are like, whoa, you're Alec. I'm like, how do you know who I am? And because they watched the season of Survivor. But going into the first season when I was on the White Lotus, I don't really think people knew. And then later on, they caught on because they're probably like, who's this like actor, you know, me actor who we've never seen before who has this part, you know, which is a small part, a couple lines an episode.

I'm not ungrateful. I'm just saying like, actually speaking smaller part, but then like, why is this guy hanging out with the director? They're probably like, I don't get it. Like is he okay? And then yeah, people caught on. They probably like, I don't get it. Like, is he okay? And then, yeah, people caught on. They're like, Oh, okay. Yeah. So he's. So he's entitled. He was the one on Survivor with Mike, and he just got the spot, which

is pretty much true. Like I say I auditioned, and I did, but I'm like, let's be honest, like, Mike probably just like pushed it through, even if I was terrible. Put him on the show. Yeah, I mean, you're so far the only survivor alumni to have a multiple episode arc. You're there for a while. Yeah, I know. Yeah, I'm stoked on that. That was, that was, I wasn't expecting that, you know, I didn't have anything to compare

it to either. I just went out there and I was like, all right, do it. When the other folks like when Kara and Angelina and then Carl, Natalie, Christian, when they go out to the weather, are they asking you like advice? You know, when you go to Survivor, you find an alumni to talk about Survivor with before you go. Are they reaching out and being like, how is this? What do I do?

Nah, like, because I think, I don't know. I mean, think like Kara, Angelina, Christian, Carl, Natalie. They're all super confident. Like Kara and Angelina on camera. Like, no, they were... If anything, I was like, I was the one who wouldn't need advice because I get pretty nervous on camera. So, and I was like by myself and everyone who went out there kind of had buddies like Karen Angelina were together. I don't know if I chatted to them. I think I was, they kind of told me I'm like, oh, that's sick. Like have fun or whatever.

But I'm the last person who should be giving advice on acting anyways. I have no clue what I'm doing. You were natural. I mean, it worked. It worked on screen, you know. It was a fun situation. You know we talked about Mike in those early stages of Survivor but tell me about your relationship with Angelina in those first couple weeks when you guys were together. Um Angelina was like it's funny

like trying to trying to look back and draw on my relationships. And the only ones I can really think of that stood out are the ones that I kind of had a, I'm trying to think like, you know, that deeper connection with that kind of sort of tugged on my heartstrings. And those people are the ones that I have like vivid, clear, like crystal memories of our reaction that kind of like popped us over

to that next level. Like obviously, Kara and I, we had this conversation that was off camera, which is really weird. Off camera where? What point during the game? It was like two weeks in. She we had we had one of those chickens and and Kara didn't want to see us kill the chickens. And so she went down and she was kind of just chilling by herself and I was up there and then I went down to rinse my hands and jump in the water.

As I'm walking back up, I saw her. So I kind of sat there and chilled with her and we talked, it was like an hour and a half. There was just no camera guy down there. Somebody could get fired for that. That's so funny. That's that's, they're not supposed to let you do that. I know. Yeah. I mean, granted there was no game talk at all. It was just, we were talking about life. Like I remember the conversation like it do that. I know. Yeah. I mean, granted, there was no game talk at all. It's just we were talking about life. Like I remember the conversation like it was yesterday. We talked about her mom and her family. And we talked about like our

outlook on life and what we want to do after the show all this stuff. And that for me was like, Whoa, like the chicks sick. Same thing with Mike. We talked about traveling and we talked about this and that. And so I have, yeah, certain instances. And so to answer your question about Angelina, like the memory I have with Angelina, like I remember we were sitting watching sunset, it was her and I and she was kind of scratching my back. Little did I know I'm like this chick, like this is a gay, you know, this is like a move. She's

like, so it makes me feel good. She'd always massage me her and Karen. And Angelina was like scratching my back. And I just remember thinking like, oh, this like she's definitely sweet, right? But on the show and nothing against Angelina, I just didn't I didn't trust her because I think Angelina kind of came off like, like, is politicky a word, you know, where you're like, dude, just like loosen up, like, just be real. I don't fucking trust you right now. Yeah. And it kind of bugged me.

And John was the same way with me. I was like, and I could have given that perception off to you. I don't know how I was because I wasn't certainly I was not the best gameplay. A lot of people came up to me and they're like, how are you feeling? I'm like, yeah, I just I was like, I don't know. I'm just thinking, you know, so I was probably the worst at it. But like, yeah, with Angelina, she was, she was sweet.

But I just, we didn't have like that. Like, I wasn't like, can I count on Angelina? I don't know. I mean, I betrayed her trust first. So I can't, I can't blame her for it. When we did that vote. And I think it was, I think it was Alison and I or someone who slipped and we wrote down Angelina and from there it was just done.

She's like, you suck. Yeah, and that's the kind of evolving that I'm hoping to see from her is, she has a lot of things working for her. And I think everybody there, especially like the new era people, the people who have played in the last five years, we all love her. I think people are excited to meet her too. So she'll, she'll have built in people. Um, and I think if she can do a little bit less of, of that in terms

of maybe opening up a little bit more and kind of like, you know, the veil comes off a little bit, I think it might be a different journey. People talk about your final travel counsel. You know, they talk about Mike in terms of Mike wasn't really, this has been said a couple of times in interviews, Mike wasn't as fighting for it as people expected him to in terms of the him against the winner of the season, the winner of the season who's fighting.

And although Mike had a great game, he kind of was maybe waffling on if he wanted that win or not. How was that night for you? Is that your recollection? Yeah, I mean, I didn't say one word at travel council. At the final travel? Yeah, no.

I mean, people might think, oh, did they cut him out? I mean, I didn't even say one thing, so there was nothing to even air. Jeff kind of threw me a bone. He's like, Alec, you were like a challenge, right? Like something, something. I'm like, oh, I don't know. It was just like that was again, I get like so nervous for some weird reason.

I don't know. So I didn't really say anything. I was really just kind of paying attention. But I do remember to your point. Yeah. Mike was I think he used the term waffling. That's a good term. He would go really good. He would give these like super rad speeches. You're like, oh, I feel like, yeah, like you're the guy.

And then at the end, he'd be like, but, you know, I mean, I mean, you know, a party goes on and if you vote, man, it was kind of I'm like, you like, what do you do? I was like, fucking whatever then, like you don't even want the money, you know, like just own it. Like fucking, he said all these things that were, that obviously he knew what he was doing. The dude slept alone in camp

because he didn't want to be perceived as a threat. Every single person, he made them feel like he was his best friend. Around camp, he busted his ass. He just didn't do too much and he never did too little. He won challenges. He socially was in socially in on every vote, always knew what was happening, steered a lot planted seeds. Like he played the best game. And then you get to the end. And he's kind of just, I don't know what his thing was. I don't know if he was like nervous, like, oh, like he would always make comments like,

oh, if I win the money, I'm going to landscape my backyard. That was obviously like a thing. And you probably just dropped to be like, let me just lower my, I mean, threat level. You would talk about, he would talk about, you know, I have a house in Hawaii. You guys can come out. He would talk about if he won the money, he would pay for everyone to party. Like all these things were like, you know, he did all these things and he got himself to the end.

So it's like, fuck man, just say it as it is. Own it. You're like, this is what I did. I played all of you. But I played the best game. But for him, for me, at least when I was listening to it, I just, I was like, I don't know, I'm not like super inspired by this, like story, the way you're kind of like recapping it, you know,

what's the difference now? Do you think like, why? Why for him? Why go back? Because Mike is just an experienced dude. Mike told me something a long time ago, which was like, you know, Mike's life is all about experience. That guy really is the epitome of just, and even with all the money and the success and fame, like what have you, I do believe that like this is just all a vehicle for Mike to continue to enjoy life and probably spoil his friends. And he's just an experienced guy. Like, that's all he wants to do. So he's probably like, Oh, I want to go back on the show. Is there probably a small piece of him that's like, I need to prove to myself that I can make it to the end and actually win it? Yeah, because Mike's a competitive dude, whether he wants to admit it or not. So I would imagine that that's the draw.

But I mean, he did Amazing Race twice, Survivor. Now he's going back on Survivor in the, you know, in the middle of all this white lotus stuff. So obviously, it's not money. He's got enough. And he's got the white lotus thing going on. It's not about fame. So then you're like, what is it experience? And maybe there's some like emotional thing deep down there that he's just like, I need to do it. He's always said, he's like, Oh, I just want to look back on life and say that I lived a cool life. That's his like, you know, mo.

Yeah, he really is like his whole game is I mean, he's my favorite. So every test and ever like out of all 700 people, just because I think he balanced being all of the things that like it was almost like there's a guy that was in this most recent season, Kyle, who said he's like the best average guy you'll ever meet, which I think Mike really did that well, where he never he was very funny. He was very cool, but he never seemed too much of anything like he really, he really wrangled his his threat level in a way where he's this guy and not everybody knows, but he's multimillionaire, super famous guy that managed to get to the end and beat out people who are clamoring for that money, which is really impressive. You have people who go on who are relatively famous or in the limelight and they're out

and they're clipped pretty early. And he's the only one who's made it. I'm sorry Lisa Walsh who is an actress who was on the facts of life makes it to the end as well. Yeah. But they they to be able to do that with people who are who literally like they're there for money they want the check to better themselves like it's a really impressive thing to do. Yeah.

And I think it goes to just I don't know. I mean, like, yeah, a lot of people, I would say the majority of people there are there for money. There's a few that of course come to mind that have gone on the show. Like Russell was, I think he had said, he's like, I don't need the money. I don't know how true that is. I don't know the guy, but I just, that's the one that popped in my head. I'm sure there's other people that are there like, I just want to win this game and get the title. Um, but yeah, it's, it's, it's an interesting thing. I wonder if because Mike is there for that and he's like, I don't need the money. Do people subconsciously think, okay, well he doesn't have that story that could potentially beat me out of, oh, I need the

money. I got family and kids and this and that. And the typical, the typical, uh, what do you call it? Scenarios. Um, and I don't know if that'll win again this time, right? Like the, I don't need the money thing. I'm just here for the experience. But he, he, he like hammered that into everyone's head when we were on the show. Not here for the money. I'm just here for the experience. It's funny. There's the, the, the drop your buffs podcast. I'm not sure if you're familiar, but they do. There's Survivor podcast also. They had said about Mike, because they know Mike personally, that they, Mike wants to make good TV this time.

Like Mike, Mike is there to like make a show. What is that? You know, Mike, what does that mean to you to like, Mike wants to make good TV on Survivor? Mike's had a lot of ideas just outside of even being a contest good TV on Survivor. Mike's had a lot of ideas just outside of even being a contestant again on Survivor for the show. And then of course, I mean, he writes for a living. So I don't know, like Mike said the first time we were on, he's like, when we were all suffering,

it wasn't hard when we were on, he's like, when we were all suffering, it wasn't hard when we were cold and wet and sandy and we're hot and doing these challenges. He always said it wasn't hard because we were suffering for a greater cause. He goes, we're suffering for America. And so like, again, when you have the cameras out there, someone like myself wasn't like consciously aware of maybe the faces I was making, the things I was saying, the

way I was being coming off. Whereas Mike is probably just so in tune and hyper fixated on what am I saying? I guarantee you that guy will say something in a confessional or do something and he's probably just like, boom. He's like, that's gonna make it on TV. Whereas the rest of us just kinda like mosey on through the whole season. And yeah, but so good TV. I mean, he's probably just gonna be ruthless

with his comments. And I would imagine his gameplay will be very similar. It's not gonna like go out and try to be the challenge beast. I don't know. It's interesting. It really is. Do you have any insight onto Angelina's motivation for a second time? Like in terms of I mean, I'm sure that you know, money and fame are also second to that

title. But what is the motivation, do you think, for her to go back and play one more time? Yeah, I would say, you said money and fame, of course money, right? Like money for Angelina. She has her business, Joyvabe, fame, like a little more of a platform to kind of, but I would say those are kind of the lower on the totem pole. I would say for Angelina, I would imagine that watching herself the first time play the game, she may or may not have been a bit upset, you know, getting to the end and thinking I got no votes. Um, which I mean, I know I'm close with Angelina and I think Angelina has done a lot of like

self reflection on that and think, okay, like, I thought I played this game, I thought I was this person going in, I make it to the end, which is like something in itself, but then I get no votes. Like how is that not adding up? It's like studying 10 hours for a test and then getting an F. You're like, wait, what did I do wrong? And so I think she probably has seen a lot of those things, thought to herself, oh, maybe I'm not who I thought I was. Like washing yourself back can be,

what's the word like? Just gives you a lot of insight into who you are and you're like, Oh, whoa, that's how I, how I come across. So maybe there's a part of Angelina that thinks I can do better. Like there's this other side of me that people haven't seen. I'm not that, you know, rice negotiating jacket asking like, like, there's other I've seen other layers of Angelina. I told her this before I'm like, dude, just like, go out and you have there's so much opportunity for you, because people think they're gonna get this version of you when in reality, like, you're,

I was like, you're smart, you went to fucking Yale and Stanford, and you're intelligent. And I think where you lack is maybe like the social awareness of how you're coming across. And I'm like, don't be so like politicky. Just fucking, just be real, dude. Just be honest and raw and don't try to like always get up, stay on everyone's good side. Like it's just not gonna happen.

Just be real. This is a conversation that you have right now before she left for this. Yes, yes. I was like just yeah I'm like Angelina. I've seen such a cool side of you You're like you don't need to please everyone like you're so sweet and funny and there's all these sides of Angelina that people didn't get To see the first time on Survivor. So I just told her I was just looked at her. I'm like, dude

You don't need to try to appease everyone. And with the question asking, she's like, I'll get there, Jack, like show the sides. Like if you're miserable and you're like, I'm over this, just show that. And if you're like angry or upset, show that you don't need to be like happy all the time and turn over that. Just be real. What brought you and Angelina closer post survivor? What was the what fostered that friendship?

I would say like, you know, when Karen and I were dating Angelina, we were all close in proximity to each other. So we got to spend a lot of time together. And then because that, you know, also to like, I've been there for some pretty big parts of Angelina's life. like when she they bought a house and they moved down to San Diego. And then now she has two kids like I've just like been plugged in and a lot of part of Angelina's life and I don't know, Angelina is loyal. She's

someone you can count on. And like she really does want the best for people in her life. Like I know she might come across a certain way. If you watch that first season of Survivor, I don't know what people's assumptions about Angelina are, but she is so caring and loving, obviously. She loves her kids. She's super intelligent. She's driven and ambitious with this whole business thing. She obviously has something to prove to herself with going back on Survivor. What that is, I'm not entirely sure.

I think it's just like, I want to prove to myself that I can play a different game. Even if she makes it half as far, as long as she's like the Angelina that I know, I'm sure she'll be stoked and proud of that. So yeah, I think it's just like Angelina is cool. Maybe she thinksina's cool. Maybe she thinks I'm cool. She just enjoy her company. FanDuel Casino's exclusive live dealer studio

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Get your ticket to more with the new BeMo VI Porter MasterCard and get up to $2,400 in value in your first 13 months. Terms and conditions apply. Visit bmo.com slash VI Porter to learn more. Are Angelina and Mike, they have a good relationship as well? Yeah. Yeah. I don't know how much they hang out. Again, I can't really speak. I don't talk to Karen much anymore. Angelina and I talk to here and there. And it's of course, like, it's like, no time has passed, like, and just pick up the phone. And we catch up. Mike and engines, Angelina's relationship, I'm sure it's the same as mine. And same as like care with Mike, I think we all have like equally strong relationships and in different ways. I think the good thing is

like, I don't know. I mean, I know people are going to know that Angelina went on the White Lotus. And like, she knows Mike, but I don't know how. I don't know if they think their relationship is super strong or what people are going to think about that. And Christian also, it hasn't come up. But Christians, Christians over there too with that. Yeah, Christians like, I mean, that's another one that Like Christian and I were like this on that show. I love that guy.

Yeah. Like Christian was one of my favorites. If I could have, yeah, yeah. There was, that guy was just so, I mean, yeah, everyone's gonna probably say like he's like voted most likable. Like I could cry talking about that guy because he was just such like a genuine dude.

And like, I feel like he evolved so much on that show and grew and like with the challenge and winning the challenges. And I have so many good core memories of Christian that it just cracked me up. Like I remember I taught him this game. We were all sitting out on the beach and the cameras, it was probably the easiest scene for those guys to film

because we had the entire cast. This is during the merge sitting on the beach about to watch sunset. And so they all had their cameras posted up just facing at us and we're just all sitting out looking and talking. And I remember I had asked Kara, I was like, Oh, like, what's like a funny story? And she told this New Year's story. And, and it was like, we're like all listening and we're cracking up. And then I taught Christian this game. I'm like, have you ever played this game odds? And I taught him this game. And anyways, I odds him and he ran in the water and then he rolled around in the sand.

Just like funny. I'm like, dude, this guy is so sick. Like, I don't know. Christian was Christian was so rad. I've thought about, someone asked me, like, if I think he'd make it far. I'm like, I don't know. He's like, go ahead. I don't wanna be the guy who votes off Christian,

is I think my, I think that is going to affect the game, is I think, at least for those earlier rounds I mean Christian leading up to this season is the only person that Everybody in this whole survivor versus like oh, he will be on season 5. He's the only one that had like Universal a hundred percent approval So, I don't know if I'm there and granted you want to do anything to win if Christians the boat Christians the boat But I would feel I feel hesitant for anybody to point the to win. If Christian's the vote, Christian's the vote. But I would feel, I feel hesitant for anybody to point the finger at Christian so early into the season.

I think once he gets to the same spot that you were around, like your final 10, eight, six, like that's when I think you clip. So he can't win, because he'll win, he'll win every time. But then what's the benefit of keeping in there earlier on? I think there's so many, especially in the new era. I think you have these people from the first 10 seasons, people you watched when you were younger, who were there.

And then you have the new era folks. And I think everybody's coming in with ego. And I think Christian, and I think both Angelina and Mike have this lack of ego that I think is really palatable. I think you can't feel Mike's ego. I mean, Mike is making self-deprecating jokes with you guys at the camp and is spending the money to do whatever to his backyard. I think that's really great. I think Christian and Angelina both are brilliant, super educated, have great careers, you know, whereas the people on the far sides have either waited 20 years to come play again

or have waited a year. And they've only thought about Survivor for a year. I think the people who we're speaking of, like they're in the sweet spot of it's far enough away where we can kind of come in with a fresh perspective, but it's not 20 years where we're coming into a new show. You know, I mean, you watched Colby, Colby, Colby and Stephanie LaGrosse. They're with them right now. And I worry for people who it's been four presidents since they've been on Survivor. That's tough.

Yeah. It's a tough situation to be in. So I think this group is really, really good. And I think if they're, there's likely going to be three tribes, maybe they're group is really, really good. And I think if they're, you know, there's likely going to be three tribes, maybe they're all split up, one, one, one. But if two of them are together, I think that is probably a little bit more dangerous because then it's like, there's a pair. But if they're split up, I think they're chilling for a little bit. Yeah, it's interesting you say that, right? Like, I don't think they would put, it's going to be interesting to see who they who they

pair up if it's that's Christian and Mike or Angelina and Mike. Yeah, because it's gonna suck. It's gonna suck for whoever is the pair. I mean, I'd want to be like the solo one. Because if you are the pair, I would imagine they're gonna be a target, right? Like Mike, they're gonna be like, Oh, for sure. But yeah, I think you're right. Yeah, maybe it's funny. Angelina was actually the one who's like, we need to get Christian out. He was supposed to be the first vote of the merge. She's like, we're all gonna hate ourselves when we're watching this back on TV thinking why did we not take this guy out sooner? You know, it's funny, she has a couple rounds where she is so outspoken on what she wants and it ultimately doesn't go her way.

And I'm wondering how that will affect when she comes back. Is how like, whether it's the approach that she's taking, because Christian should have gone out the first round of the like that that makes sense for for her and her game. But she couldn't rally. And I wonder if in those in these eight years, she kind of fine-tuned how to rally. Yeah, I know. It's a good thought. I mean, she obviously has the brains. There's like zero question about that.

It's just like, again, it goes back to how she's being. It's like the social awareness, how she's being perceived by other people, how she comes off. It can she, can she kind of fine tune that part? Cause if she can, damn, she'd be unstoppable. Yeah. Like she gets the game, she understands the game, she gets relationships.

Even her prior job before, I know she worked at Deloitte doing murders and acquisitions. Like she understands people. Yeah, yeah. You know, so it's just, to your point, can she like fine tune the, the execution on these like big game time decisions? I think she can.

Yeah, I hope she can. I really, I mean, I think that she can. And I also think there's going to be so many people who like shoot out of a cannon, right? And they're, they're so excited. They're ready to be back there. And I think it bites people in the ass. Whereas if she's done years of reflection, like I think she'll know to like slow your roll a little bit. You know what I mean? And I hope that's the journey. Because

I know the people who watch the show, I mean, people are, like I said, more excited for her. I mean, I am more excited to see her than, you know, seven eighths of the group that's there. You know, that people are really, really jazzed to see her back there. If between the three of them, your Christian, your Mike, Angelina, who do you think has the best chance of winning? Oh, man. I think that. I think Angelina has the best shot at making it to the end.

Because if she goes back, let's just say hypothetically, if she goes back and ends up playing the same game, the same thing's going to happen to her. Will she get dragged? No, I don't want to use that term. She said it. This is why I'm saying this. She's like, I got taken to the end as like, I don't know what they call it, right? Like a goat, like the goat.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Which is funny. Cause like in today's day and age goat is like, use the goat greatest of all time. So it's not gonna use that, but okay. So I think the reason she has, yeah, the best shot at making it to the end is because if she plays that same game,

we've seen it play out like chances are she'll get taken to the end if it's a final three. But then if she doesn't I think that it'll be too late 26 days is too late for be able to for people to be able to catch on like oh whoa she's playing an entirely different game here and if she's able to execute on some of these things like we've seen her make it to the end once and if she's able to execute on these things and steer the vote and, and be the decision maker. I think yeah, and then she has a shot at actually like winning because I think she has, you know, speaking in regards to her, her, her past, it's like

she'll be able to be like, I've kind of like changed the most. And I, and it's going to'll be able to be like, I've kind of like changed the most and I, and it's gonna be such a stark contrast between you know, last time you guys I was here. I didn't do this, I didn't do this. And now I was able to like execute and all these things, I was able to know where the boat was going and do this. And so I think that'll be a big thing versus like, let's just say Mike makes it to the end, like what has he changed, he's just say Mike makes it to the end. Like what has he changed?

He's gonna like probably replicate that same format. I'm not saying he doesn't have a shot at winning. I do think, I told this to someone on an earlier podcast. I was like, Mike's another one that I think will make it to the end. And then Christian, I just like, I can see him to your point getting far, but I just,

you're playing with a group of returning players that are all very smart and privy to the information of, oh, if this guy who's so likable gets to the end, chances are he's going to beat everyone. Like, why would you want to bring Christian to the end? Which is a compliment, you know, like, if he sat there in the final three. Yeah, with you guys for sure. But I say Angelina top Mike Christian, like I think Angelina has the best shot. Is there anybody from your show or any of the other shows that you wish was playing

again? Anybody that you have like a damn, I wish they were out there. wish was playing again? Anybody that you have like a damn I wish they were out there. It's a good question. Like Jeremy. Of course. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I get it. Like he didn't make it far, but that's like another thing TV didn't see is just how funny that guy was. And I think he was his own demise. He just strategized too much too early on. I think just in general, not for this season, I'd love to see that guy play again, because I know how like entertaining he is. You know, Alec, you're you're talking to a funny guy who was out early, who was his own

demise. So I'm all for them coming back. You know what I mean? That sounds great to me. You're like, oh, I like that answer. Yeah, it's a great answer. I got to text Jeremy. We got free, he's, I'm in New York. I think he's here.

So we'll, we'll, we'll see each other. Do you ever have like, when you reflect back on your experience, are you ever, like, have you been able to cope with it? Or is it something you think about like, oh, I should have done this or I wish I wouldn't have done this? It, you know, spoiler alert for season 45, which I knew you were going to watch tonight

after we got off here. So spoilers, it went it went so bad. It went like it went off the wall bad to where it became funny. So it's like, if I let it get to me, then it'll really get to me. So I just have to, I just have to kind of turn it into something in my head that's positive. And it really was, like I had dreamed about going for my entire life. And then I got to go, it went south, but I got to go, I got to get my torch snuffed by Jeff. Like that's the coolest thing in the world. Other than winning, it's the coolest thing in the world. So I've kind of done a lesson in reframing

like the bad parts of the experience and kind of turning them into something that I'm grateful for. I mean, I went in super anxious, being anxious is what kind of bit me and now I am not anxious. Like I'm severely less anxious than I was in life because of like if the worst thing

that you could have ever imagined happened to you happens to you like six times in a row what are you afraid of you know what what's the worry so i really like it's the best thing i've ever done because of that um so i guess to answer your question i think about it but i'm very grateful i'm very very grateful for the whole thing that's good i was gonna say too I mean, you're doing this now. You're great. You got it. You got a good podcast voice. I don't know if it's the mic or what, but I'm like, it feels like we're kind of born to this. So who knows where this will lead. I am thrilled. I, I, I said, you know,

you were one of the people that from your show that I loved watching, always wanted to meet you. So thrilled we got to do this. Tell everybody where they can find you. Tell everybody what you're working on too. I'm so interested in your startup. So talk about that. Yeah, I know I'm excited too. I've kinda been in this content space for a while now,

post survivor, not cause of survivor, just cause of, I don't know, my life. Yeah, I started that at the very, very beginning of the year. I've always wanted to start a business. And I feel like this is just like perfect timing stars of a line. I'm a little older now, you know, I'm 31. And so, uh, put a more locked in and not so head in the clouds and just trying to like, I don't know, jump on any opportunity or any travel experience.

Now it's more like, all right, let's lock in and work. But anyways, natural skincare. So I'm going to do it. I've been making this natural sunscreen, working on that, which has been quite the journey, fun. Super grateful to even be in a position to start something. And also too, I'm like so passionate about this. It's called Surfing Cow. It's like, I thought it was just gonna be, I'm gonna start this sunscreen thing and I've learned so much and so many people have, I'll just be out and they're like, oh, you're the surfing cow guy.

And I'm like, this is sick. Not that like that part of it, but just I'm like, dude, I've always wanted to start something and I've envisioned it and believed it. Same way when I got on Survivor, I was like, I don't know how I'm gonna get on the show.. Like I just believe that I'll get on the show. That's how I've always been my whole life. And my things work out, you know, and what led you to skincare? Well, I was kind of, I mean, I grew up in San Clemente, I've been in the

sun my whole life. And then you like look at yourself and like, dude, I'm getting older, I need to take care of my skin. And it was actually Kara turned me on to some skincare products, like about to now probably like almost two years ago. And then I was using those and then my sister got me into like all natural type products. And then so I just thought to myself, I could probably do this like better. Like there's not a lot of natural options out there. And a lot of this stuff is harmful. Um, I wonder if I could do this. So I was just like, yeah, screw it.

Let's just do it. It's just like, you know, see where it goes. And so you started making it like in your house, you started cooking it there. Yeah. Yeah. In my kitchen kind of just experimenting with different samples and then find. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's been so fun, yeah. In my kitchen. Kind of just experimenting with different samples and then find, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's been so fun, dude. I looked at the Instagram. Not only does the product look super cool, but the hats. The hats are really good. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The hats are cool. Yeah, people like hats, which I'm surprised about.

I'm like, all right, you guys want hats? And no, I'm like. I might be getting one. Yeah. But. I like, this has been so much fun. Thank you so much for joining me to talk about, about your people. Thrilled. No, I, I, I appreciated this. You're, you're really good.

This was different. It was really, uh, I feel like we kind of just cruised up, you know, like cruising altitude and we were just there the whole time, really good questions. Made me think too, it wasn't like the typical question. So I enjoyed that. That was, that was fun. Oh my god, I'm thrilled. Well, thank you everybody for listening. Have a good one. We'll be back again next time with another episode of the Survivor 50 files. Take care and goodbye. Thank you to our friends at Mantis Sleep for sponsoring this episode of the Survivor 50 files. You've made it to the end of the podcast. You've been here long enough.

Let me show you my sleep mask, the one that I use and I use every night. Here it is. This is, I've worn this every night for the past couple of years, um, minus the four nights that I spent on survivor, the television show, and it sucks to get buttered out of survivor, but a little bit better when you know, you're going back home to this, this is a 100% light blackout for deeper sleep. You put this on, can't see anything. When I watched the first two episodes of Survivor 45, I put this guy on.

I don't have to relive it, which is great. It's adjustable for a personalized fit. You can see I've quite a big head. I don't want to show you the details of I've kind of worn out the elastic, but it's durable. This guy hasn't broke. I've worn it every night for the past couple of years and it's zero pressure on your eyelids or eyelashes. I've converted so many people to getting this sleep mask when I wasn't doing this and I wanna convert you.

Use promo code 50FILES, that's five zero F-I-L-E-S on the Mantis Sleep website to get 10% off your order. That's 50FILES, five zero F-I-L-E-S. We'll see you soon