RHAP: We Know Survivor - Andy Rueda Recaps Survivor 49 Ep 10

Episode Date: November 28, 2025

Andy Rueda Recaps Survivor 49 Ep 10 Rob Cesternino sits down with Survivor 47 alum “Baby” Andy Rueda to break down a game-changing episode of Survivor 49. Broadcasting live from their own Thanksgiving feasts, Rob from his apartment and Andy from a snowy Buffalo, this episode dives deep into the current state of Survivor strategy, […]

When you're flying Emirates business class, enjoying a good night's rest in your live flat seat, you'll see that your vacation isn't really over until your flight is over. Fly Emirates, fly better. Coming to you live from my apartment, it's Rob has a podcast. And now here's the guy who is on Ticketmaster.com trying to get tickets for three boys on a bench. Rob Sisternino. Hello, everybody. Welcome back to Rob's podcast. It's Thanksgiving Day. And we are gathered here around our Thanksgiving feast. We're eating today here with our guest of honor. Of course, he put together what a great feast around Operation Italy. Here with us from Survivor 47.

It's Andy Rueta. Andy, baby Andy. Welcome home. Baby Andy's back. So, so happy to be here. So excited. Happy Thanksgiving, Rob. Happy Thanksgiving to you, too. Yeah. And thank you for making time to talk to me on Thanksgiving morning here. And so tell me about your busy plans today.

So I am literally in my mother's basement in Buffalo, New York. It's snowing pretty bad here at the moment. But a lot of snow on the ground, but it's okay. We're just going to go over to my aunt's house. I'm just going to do it right, do a nice turkey dinner, all the fix-ins, et cetera. So I'm happy to take some time in this morning and talk about an episode. I'm very thankful for it, Rob. This is, in my opinion, definitely the best episode of the season.

And I'm ready to say that this post-merge has definitely upgraded the season in my eyes. I think it's been really cool, a lot to dig into each vote. So, yeah. All right. Well, we will get into it all here today. we got a good one to talk about. Of course, I want to thank our sponsor for this episode of the podcast. Our friends over at Manta Sleep.

Get 10% off over at MantaSleep.com with promo code RHAP 49. It's Black Friday, but it's going to be Blackout Friday when you wear a Manta Sleep mask, block out all the light. All right. So, Andy, yeah, suddenly in this post-merge, we ended up getting into a lot of excitement in and we'll break that all down. How are you doing? What's new with you? I'm doing great. I'm living life. I think it's really good and cozy to be one year removed from the survivor experience. It's been really a good year. I'm back to work. So I'm like just living the sort of normal real life.

But I think what's great as a survivor alum is most of the time you're just focusing on the real world again, but you have access to the coolest side adventure you could go on, which is to to be part of the survivor world, to talk about Survivor with you. So I've found a good equilibrium, so it's been good. It's been good. Yeah, it is very fun. It's a weird world to be in, to be a survivor alumni, where, you know, it's not the type of thing where you go at places and you're not famous. You're not somebody who, you're not a celebrity, but you do have like this dichotomy where you're a normal person.

And then also sometimes, like, you can go into certain environments where people recognize you. And I have to say it's a nice type of fame to have where, you know, I go into my local supermarket, you know, in and no one pays me any attention. But if, you know, you go to like a survivor party and, you know, then you do get attention. It's nice to have both. it's it's like the perfect mix it's like the right dose right it's kind of like probably how like a i don't know like a star track actor or something like feels like in certain worlds uh you are known worlds exactly are you a star trek person not really but i know about the big they have the huge convention culture right yes but yeah most of the time you're just you're normal it's not

super invasive on a day-to-day basis but whenever it does pop up it is cool like I mean for me maybe it's just a like a function of me living in New York City but I do it does happen like maybe like three three times a week I do someone does stop me and talk with me a little bit but that's always super positive it's just like I'm always happy to talk about Survivor actually I did something super random last week there was someone who came out to me on the subway and talked with me and then kind of on a whim she invited me to her sister's surprise birthday party which was a survivor screening at Cobblet Hill City. cinema was in Brooklyn. And I just showed up. Like Baylor and Missy. Baylor and Missy. I just showed up. And I'm really happy to have done that because it was very pure.

Just a little side quest I could do. I think they were happy to have me. But we watched the Alex Boot. And I'm just like, wow, like if I want to, I could just go do this. And it means a lot of people. So, yeah, like you said, it's like, fame is like a weird word for it. but it's the right balance. Okay.

What about for the guest of honor or for the person whose surprise party it was? What was her reaction to show up? And look, and Andy is here. I was going to go with my girlfriend just to make it a little bit more normal, but she had to battle at the last minute. So it really just was me walking into this movie theater.

I had popcorn. And everyone was already there. And there's like 25 people like doing introductions. So they were all like facing the back of the movie theater. um she was pretty gagged honestly she was like yeah she's like what is going up and i understand that because like i was obviously a big super fan before i played and i would go to the the bryson wins and the rjp wives and when you see a survivor player in real life there's kind of a it's a cool effect it's like just seeing them in 3d is this just like uh bizarre you know experience so

the fact that i'm on the other side of it is as actually the weirder part but um who would have been the one person that when it's your birthday that somebody could have surprised you with that really would have gagged you from Survivor yeah oh um it's funny because I feel like I've met some of the huge names it probably Tony even though I did get a I did have the pleasure of meeting him for like 15 seconds I was there it was a great interaction he was like did you crush it did you crush it because he's not watching the new era it was a hilarious moment when we went we were all at the survivor 48 premiere and they brought tony out there and there was just a bunch of survivors coming in and out of like there was like this one dressing room at the beach drop and tony who tony doesn't know

who anybody is and he was sort of holding court and he was asking about you know um he doesn't know Andy from anybody. And so he asked Andy like, yeah, did you crush it? And he's like, yeah, he kind of crush it. Because the other funny part of it was Brandon Donlin, who is backstage. He says to

Brandon Donlin, did you crush it? For her, it's like, ah, Skittley, skip me. He didn't I mean. Okay. Yeah. But let's talk about the people that are crushing it here over on Survivor 490. And I

happened to be like looking through social media this morning and I saw some of your commentary and you were you were very impressed by what happened last night and especially you were very impressed by by the risgod the risgod so I don't tweet much about Survivor I was compelled to tweet that and I was really impressed by what he did last night but I would say the tweet which was just the fact that he's a heck of a player. I think it's a culmination. I'm just more, I'm impressed by his body of work

up to this point this season. I think he really is the player to watch through 10 episodes. And I'm just, I'm just really, really enjoying it. And I think he's doing an amazing job. The fact that he has milked this idol for everything it's worth

and he still has it going into the final seven is obviously super impressive. But I think what I'm really enjoying about Rizzo is the fact that he is, I think, single-handedly moving the meta. That's something I talk about a lot, right? Or we all talk about a lot. Just the fact that I think he's zagging when almost every other new era player is zigging. And I think that's super bold.

So in Survivor 49, they're coming off of, yeah, like half of 48 and 47, but 46 is still top of mind. And everyone who watched 46 came away with the, you know, the conclusion that you just got to burn your idol, the first chance you get. You can't be fancy with it because you're just going to get voted out with the idol in your pocket. And I think it's super awesome that Rizzo has already kind of flipped it into the other direction and is like, hey, because Survivor's cyclical and we've seen it a lot in the past with people we've mentioned already like Tony, for example, using it offensively and being bolder and making the decision to have this public idol and leverage it while keeping it in his pocket. um is just incredible it's incredible and i love when players not only go against the grain but i'm getting the sense from him where this is i think it's a really exciting sort of period of time if you're lucky if you last long enough as survivor where you realize that you don't just

have to go with the grain or whatever you're not just happy to be there but like survivor is your sandbox you could do whatever you want you could play however you want And it's very clear to me that he has a very high level of intentionality with the game style that he's playing. And I'm really happy that's working out for him so far. Yeah, I'd love to explore all of that here with you. And yeah, it's interesting because his idol is so well known. And I think that coming out of Survivor 46, there was this thought process where, you know, you had all the people who went out in a row with having the idol.

And I'm trying to. a room and see if I could name them was it was it Hunter did Hunter get it started was he the first one oh no I know this is like a pop twish items it was it was Hunter

it was certainly Tiffany that was it Venus I think was the last one and I think there was probably Q at 6 Q had an idol also yeah yeah yeah oh my god yeah I think it was those four yeah yeah

Yeah, it was Hunter, Tiffany, Venus, and Q was the big streak. And then Jen before in the pre-merge. So, yeah. Yeah. And that leaves a huge impression when you're a player in the casting process about to play yourself. And I don't think people knew that Jim had an idol. I think that that was the one where it was not like that, like, let's flush her idol.

I think that she just thought she was safe. And I think that players, I think, were saying, I'm going to save my idol. And what we've seen with Rizzo is that it's a known idol that he has. and he's also been like dangling it. And I don't think that there was, with those players in question, there was too much of like, I'm going to, maybe I'm going to play it. Maybe I'm not. But I think that a lot of the players are very risk averse and they don't seem to want to push

the envelope to force his hand. Yeah, I agree 100%. And to be fair, being risk averse in the situation that the sort of Hina's found themselves in in the early merge, it does make sense. And honestly, it's where a lot of players. strategy will go towards because I think the really cool thing the I think one of the there are a lot of reasons why Rizzo has been on this really hot streak with the idol one is the fact that um in each of these tribal counties that he's been in starting with I mean he was left out of the the Nate vote right

but then going from starting with the MC vote it's been and maybe you could credit it's five for having these split travels because we complain about them a lot but in that small situation that Idle actually had a ton of leverage because there hasn't been a very clear or easy split option. There's been a lack of splitability in these tribal councils. A lot of it has to do with Savannah continually winning immunity. So that's a huge credit for her and that alliance in general. But if you don't have an easy split option, all of a sudden, you're going to be really risk-averse. That's going to be the instinct of many players.

And I would assign a lot of intentionality to this with Rizzo. but it's also but it's part just the tribe dynamics but because of that he's able to exploit this sort of I would say vulnerability in many survivor players games and through this he's he's able to have the room to get his way and I and this is true with Savannah and Sophie B as well they're able to get their way tribal council after travel council where because they have all these advantages

they're gaining more power by the round and we're at the point where the final seven where they have they've gone from obviously having very little influencer control to having a ton of control and because he's had this room to maneuver he's been able to make moves on the side such as picking up Sophie Sogretti which has come through a ton

in the last two tribal councils so this is definitely the narrative of the post merge and of the season and I think it's a really strong one and it's kind of it's sort of making a distinction would survive for 49 in the new era because that was my worry in the premerges like nothing was happening besides the snake bite that like was super distinct that was

something to to really remember and learn from and I think this is what we're seeing here now. You mentioned about how you think that this is changing the meta. So what do you think is going to be the takeaway potentially for people who are going to be participating in Survivor into the 50s? Yeah. Well, I think one way in which you could change the meta is if you really start opening up people's imagination. And again, he didn't invent using an idol offensively, but it is really cool how the meta game is circular over Survivor history. But he brought it back. He brought it back in a really strong way. And I remember, so like when I was preparing for Survivor 47, I did a lot of whatever research. I did a lot of prep.

And I came away with the conclusion that in the new era, idols really have little value, you know, because they're always public and you can't really leverage them to their full extent. It's just going to burn a hole in your pocket. It's going to put a target on your back. And now I can see that obviously, like, that's just, that's not totally true. And you kind of forget the lessons you learn in the past where people have been super creative with their advantages and use them.

in innovative and offensive ways. And Rizzo had that, yeah, he just had, he has the ability to do that. And I think it's really cool. And so as far as where the meta is going to go, I think it's just going to lead people to think more creatively when they have an advantage. It's not just a defensive mechanism. It's something that you can be bold with. Yeah. It's interesting because in Survivor 46, players who had idols, the players,

We're not necessarily afraid to put the votes on them. Where it seems like that in Survivor 49, there seems to be an aversion or at least maybe a little bit of a hesitation of, well, we can't put the votes on this person that he has the idol. What if he plays it? And then it's hard to split the vote because there's not enough numbers to, or there's not a great secondary target when Savannah. is immune to put the votes on, and that sort of like divides the ranks.

Yeah. You do hear players mentioning that, like, hey, like, Rizzo's cocky this round. Like, let's just load the votes up on him. But I think that, especially when you get to the merge, there is a sort of culture that gets set. There are certain ideas that propagate. And I think in 46, yeah, they were of the mind to just blindside someone with the idol. You don't have to split the vote. You just have to make them feel comfortable.

And that's the sort of strategy that they got used to doing. In 49, it's not that. It's been a lot of risk aversion. And, oh, like, there's, like, so much friction gunning for Rizzo and Savannah and Sophie B right now. Let's actually, like, make it work to our advantage by maybe working with them and vote with them and get out someone else who's a big threat. And sort of, like, locally, that could be a good move. And I really want to talk about Sophie Socrates' headspace and her strategy. But we have all the information about, you know, all the advantages at play and the sort of the real deck.

dynamics within that trio. So we can kind of see that what the strategies of other players over these past few rounds have just given them pretty much an undeniable amount of power now. And they have, so I think one of the three of them is definitely, you know, win this game. Yeah. I want to just bring up as an aside. I listen to a really interesting podcast this week, which is called plain English. I really enjoy this podcast.

It's Derek Thompson. It's part of the Ringer Network. and he had a podcast about sort of like and this was something i actually brought up with evy last week about how and and tini called me out and said it's not it's not the case but the the phenomenon of like that largely culture has not changed as much in terms of the arts and fashion in terms of the last like 20 25 years or so when you go back and you could watch a 20 year old episode of the office And the clothes aren't necessarily, like, super different in the way that they would be from the 90s when they look back to the 70s or the 50s. And so this sort of has been like a homogenization.

I'm like Bryce now. Homogenization. Homogenization of the, a lot of the arts where things have not progressed as rapidly, where people are watching old TV shows rather than. than trying out new ones. And the thought was sort of that as a society, we are far more risk-averse than we used to be. And it manifests in a lot of interesting ways in where people are less likely to join a cult and people are safer and overall, like young people are less likely to drink and smoke. And there's a lot of good things about how that as a society, we are more risk-averse.

And I do wonder if that is, you know, in the types of people that are playing on Survivor, it's generally, you know, whereas, yeah, they're willing to say yes to the adventure. But I think that going on Survivor is kind of low-risk, right? Well, that's a good question if it's a low-risk. but this is such a fascinating topic. Wait, well, there's a lot to get into. And I'd love to hear Tini's perspective on it. But the Tini said that Tini can tell that actually fashion has changed quite a bit. Yeah.

Like, okay. For sure. But here's, so like, here's how we could bring it to Survivor. Like, I sort of noticed that as well. And I think, obviously, ever since the start, Survivor reflects culture. And you can kind of see where culture moves through the lens of Survivor. And I think that there's a lot to talk about here in terms of, yes, the new era, but maybe just a little bit before that where Survivor, watching Survivor and playing on Survivor is and feels much different than I can imagine it was in the early days. And maybe we could put our heads together and talk about how it differs, right?

But I think that there's a lot of complaints about the new era, the state of casting, which I mostly disagree with, but we could get into. but yes too many super fans right and not just that there are too many super fans but people go on Survivor and they are being way too meta they're like oh I'm in my you know there are people like oh I'm in my TV right oh my God it's travel council blah blah blah blah and it's a detriment to the entertainment of the show I think that my take on it and this gives grace to both old era and new era players is that I think it's just a different experience playing now than it was because off the backs of legends such as yourself, and we can go down the list,

like Parvey and Bossab, the people who have done it, when you were on it, and I know you were like the first super fan, but largely like for 99% of the contestants, like it was just this new thing that they were doing. Like there was not so much established. They were, oh, like reality TV was coming into the fray, like in a big way. But they're just like, oh, like, you are the ones figuring out what Survivor is,

was what it feels like, what's cool about Survivor, what's important about Survivor. winning an immediate necklace oh that's cool playing an idol oh that's awesome and the old school legends really built up that culture of survivors such that at a certain point i would say like maybe about the 30s actually but and i think that is a parallel to like that decade honestly where you just it's been built up so much that it is honestly this culturally significant and cool thing to be a part of Survivor because of what Legends did in the past. And now there's like this meta aspect of it where if you find an idol, you're thinking about all the people

who found an idol in the past who you've looked up to or you win a challenge and, you know, it has this greater meaning. And so I think that's why whenever someone wins an immunity challenge now, it's emotional. It's meaningful and it's emotional. And they talk about, you know, their family rooting them on and everything like that. Because for more, more than two decades, you know, it's been just a big, shared, meaningful thing that the old school has established. And so I think that feeds into what you were saying, where there's just like maybe a more of, like, things like nostalgia are more sort of feel more significant now than they, maybe

they did in the past because there's just like this reflexive element to, to, to, you know, to being on the show and maybe that speaks to culture in general. Who knows? I think overall there's a lot to unpack there, but it's just a way of describing of like players seem to be a little bit more afraid of like making the move that ultimately is going to. This is like, listen, I know he has the idol. I am going to vote for him anyway tonight because I,

I don't, you know, yes, I'm going, this is my all in move where I think that like the idea of like, okay, but then we'll split it and then it's not going to necessarily backfire on me where I think that Rizzo has been able to capitalize on like, yeah, I'm, he said it back in the episode where they have the split tribal council, it doesn't matter to me if I come in fourth or if I come in 10th. I love that. Yeah, I love that. I think you're right. Yeah. So like, okay, go back to the risk a version of it all. I think maybe one reason is because I think that an instinct that a survivor player has, like especially one who's sort of studied the game tape, which is kind of most of the players in the new era, it's like, oh, splitting a vote

feels like the smart thing to do because you're protecting yourself. And if we load up on this person and it backfires, then not only are we going to look dumb, but like people are going to have things to say about it on Reddit and podcasts and stuff. So you want to do the smart move just to move yourself forward. And there's validity to that. Like, because splitting a vote is really good in a lot of situations because you are covering yourself in all bases. But if everyone is in that mode, then someone like Rizzo can zag and really take advantage of it. And so, Like I said with Rizzo, and one of the reasons I'm just so, I'm enjoying him so much is that confessional is like a super good example where, you know, there are so many different ways to lose. Like, especially if you're this deep, you know, you should no longer be afraid of losing.

You should find, you should start by thinking like what is my potential winning path. You know, me, me winning, what does that look like? how could that be possible? And then you work backwards from there. And if it doesn't work, then you lose. But, you know, it's hard to freaking win. So I am more of the mind, especially after playing of like what Rizzo said, it's like, there's no difference between 10th and fourth.

You just do what you can and you take a swing. All right. This is a strategy podcast. You want to know how to be the one person who wins Christmas, the one with the gift that gets the biggest reaction? Nicole has had that crown for many years in our house. It's going to be me because I'm giving an aura frame. Aura is the perfect gift.

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So order now before it ends. Support the show by mentioning us at checkout. Terms and conditions apply. Ella McKay, coming to Dieter's December 12th. Your father's here. Why? A heartwarming new comedy from James L. Brooks. I'm a different person. I have never in my life out this way about any other woman. Jesus!

I wasn't counting your mother! It's a perfect holiday comedy about an imperfect family. You can use a scream, Ella. Starring Emma Mackey, Jeannie Lee Curtis, Camel Nanjani, Iowa Debrie with Albert Brooks and Woody Harrelson. You should do that every afternoon. Ella McKay. I want to ask you about Rizzo and the fake immunity idol that we saw on tribal council and i think it's really interesting because we

don't know what he did and i'm really of two minds also in terms of like the way that it was presented on the show because it was a blind sight to us we were all joan in that moment where this is not the idol we're like wait why why did you do this wait when when did he make a fake idol i didn't know he had that and it's interesting because I think it gives us a lot to discuss and maybe the next episode will start and we'll get Rizzo's explanation of why he did that and when he did that. I was listening to the On Fire podcast this morning and it was interesting that Jeff also said that he also needed to, he didn't know if it was a fake idol or not. And then And he had to, which I thought was a little odd.

I'm like, wait, hold on. Jeff doesn't know that that's going to happen, that he doesn't get a heads up about that. But he claimed that he had to, that Jeff had to make the call that he could tell that it was a fake idol. And he's waiting to see if Rizzo is going to give him a fake idol or not. I don't know why Jeff would even be thinking Rizzo would give him a fake idol in that moment. but he got a fake idol. What do you think is going through Rizzo's thought process in that moment? Yeah, it is a great question.

I mean, first of all, the real idols are so crummy these days that it is a good question. They are two beads with a string in the middle. Like, that's all they are. And then, yeah, with Jeff, I did read that online. I don't know. It depends on when exactly Rizzo thought of that, when he made it. Because you never know because a lot of these idol plays are in the spur of the moment. So, yeah, Jeff might not know for sure.

But anyway, as far as this move goes, I really like it. And I know we're going to get his perspective in the next episode and it's going to clear a lot up. But in the meantime, there's a lot of possible intentionality we could interpret from it and read into it. Off the bat, my first instinct when I watched it, it reminded me of Rachel's shot in the dark move. And I think that's just, it's another example of, like, just being innovative and really smart. Well, Rachel Lee was awesome, right? Because in those moments, I do think that you can get a good read from the reactions. Maybe sometimes when people play poker, they kind of overstate the tell of it all.

But really, at Tribal Council, those moments move really fast. And a player has so much going on in their brains in terms of keeping story straight. If something completely blindsize them, like a surprise idol play, I think they're going to have a pretty raw reaction. And so my best guess is that that's a huge part of what Rizzo did. And so that's awesome. But I think there's layers to why I enjoyed it so much. I think some people thought it was just flashy for no reason and useless or whatever. There are a few reasons why I really liked it.

versus that one. I think at the very least he's going to have the ability. Let's say he gets to a final tribal council. He could talk about the reasoning behind why he did that, which like I said, I think is a tell for whether or not to play his real idol or who to play it on, et cetera. Not for nothing. It's incredible that he's on the right side of the votes this round

and still has his idol going into the final seven as an insane accomplishment in its own right. But I also think that he is thinking about jury management and, like, what this looks like to a jury. And it's interesting because I think that I have a lot of sympathy for the viewpoint that you shouldn't be, that you should prioritize substance over style. And you shouldn't be going out of your way to do things that are showy just for the sake of it. And you should just like, you should just not worry about that. You should just focus on like what's going to give me any further in the game. and just be very practical and then articulately explain that at the final travel council and you know like like Kim spreadlin never had to go out of her way to like you know she let her game speak for itself right that being said on a practical level I think that survivors kind of inherently performative like it's decided ultimately by a jury making a subjective decision and with that comes perception and obviously with people in the game but also people on the jury bench who don't really know what's going on like they don't know the full story and

you can definitely explain yourself at final tribal council i'm of the mind that in most cases it's kind of not enough time you kind of need to lay the groundwork you need to be very mindful of how perception is and for rizzo i think he really wants to get to the end with his two close allies and the question is how can i differentiate myself from these allies like how can i be perceived to be the head of this, as opposed to being dragged along or whatever by Savannah's out in front in her own right. So if he's

done a lot in the game, I think probably his game plan is to be loyal to this, this trio who is, you know, seems unusually loyal to each other. And if he can sit with them, he has, he's

being very mindful about how what his you know, perception is to the jury and it's very clear after this that he's he's doing things and he's out in front and um jury your threat level management is really really that's still the name of the game of survivor but it kind of goes both ways like if you're if you're you don't want to get too high but if you you don't want to be too low either right so you you sometimes you should do things to to to increase it um and i think in in in a lot of seasons that might not work because

This endgame crunch is just about getting rid of, like, who the tallest poppy. But I think he's found two allies who would sit next to him at the end regardless. And so in that sense, it's smart for him to raise his profile. So that's, I liked a lot of that. Okay. Tell me about why you think he needs to raise his profile. Well, I think that probably all, probably he and Savannah are facing very ambiguous perception. right now like it seems like they're both kind of like rubbing the players around them the wrong

way um and do you think rizzo is rubbing people the wrong way because i feel like that that he i actually think that his jury management has been very good i think that people say they want to flush his idol i think that to the point where i think that there are times that people want his idol out of the game but i don't even think that they are necessarily looking to get him out of the game they just don't like that he is an idol this is something that like we don't know right they don't fill us in this much as viewers but

like it could go either way in his relationship with Rizzo where they think that Juan has seemingly been been very warm towards Rizzo I think people like Rizzo yeah I just like it's hard to read into like

comments that they make they've called him cocky at times etc I think it's a good open question as to how much respect he might get from this jury. It's like it's to be determined. And I think that he really doesn't want to get into a situation where he decides to sit next to Sophie be in Savannah

and then he's perceived to have done less than them or have taken less risks and been less in the open than them. That's a tough spot to be in because then he would have to betray them. So I think this is his way of establishing himself as making a case why he's the head of the snake and they have all the power. So if he's the head of the snake and it's too late for anyone to do anything about it, then he gives himself a viable chance to win in the end. So I think that's what his thinking is. What's the actual pegging order? What's the actual perception of like what's everyone's real jury stock?

That remains a VC. Well, I think he's also benefited from the perception. of Savannah where that Savannah has been talked about a couple of the different players as she's being mean and we don't like Savannah and so I think that he has been very

easy for him to be like hey he's the fun and he is somebody who is having a lot of fun and I think that that is something that has endeared him to the other players and the audience because we see how much fun he's having where especially sitting next to Savannah

I think that he is really benefited from that. Can I ask you about this fake idol that he has? Do you think that the fake idol was something that he recently put together? Or do you think that he has been sitting on this fake idol throughout the entirety of the game where that had he really ever been worried about a vote that we would have seen him deploy this fake idol earlier? Or was this only an invention where there were factors that were trying to get him to burn his idol and that he just wanted to do it on this vote. That's a really good question.

I think that I would definitely not put him past him to have sort of taken advantage of an opportunity earlier in the game to make a fake idol. I think that's when it comes of making a fake idol, I never did it myself, but I was part of some fake idol shenanigans. You just have to seize opportunities when you get them because it is kind of, you have to be very tactical of, like, what material you use? Like, has people, can it be tied back to you?

Do you have time to make a fake idol? My guess, first of all, is we're going to get, like, probably a flashback at the start of next episode of him making it. I bet he's probably been sitting on it for a while. And then if that's the case, then it was a very, you know, the editors made a clear choice to hide that until this moment. So we could kind of be very immersed in the shock factor, which I think. was a good decision. I think that's cool. It's kind of it's kind of, uh, it didn't have, we don't have a flashback yet, but it's kind of geniusy, right? Like, uh, the genius

from, from South Korea where, you know, a moment happens and then it's revealed to be fake and we like, I mean, like, early in the new era, I feel like that we got more of that. Yeah. And I was a fan of that. I think we got a lot of that in 43. Um, as long as they don't overdo it or whatever, and they definitely haven't, because I haven't seen that in a minute. Um, I think it was a good, uh, storytelling choice. Yeah. Now, there's the, I think there's another potential benefit of this is, I think I read somewhere that some people think that he could now use this to pretend that it was a fake idol the entire time. And now people don't know he has an idol at the final seven again.

I love that thought. I would, but I don't think that's possible, though, because didn't he find it right in front of Oolie? So, like, say, just still in the game. We have to go back and see, like, who was there. We know that Savannah and Nate definitely were there. and the idea of his that's a great point I didn't really think about that I don't think that sage was there and I think that they could make the story be yeah no we just said we had the idol we never act we never actually found it I feel like he's on such a hot trick he could get away with that like that'll be a project for me this week I got to go back to those earlier episodes and Who was actually there when Rizzo found the idol?

Yeah. And then in terms of like the flashiness of playing it, like obviously that could go either way, but I think it's a big net positive because there is enough ammo for him to at least, if he does get to final trouble counsel, explain why he did it. Because like in terms of new era juries, I think there's like kind of a slight misconception where I think people think that newer juries are more bitter than they really actually are or have a propensity towards bitterness. I honestly think in 99% of the cases,

a new area jury is simply looking for the player who had more authorship, more agency, paved their way to the end more than the other two sitting next to them. The weirdest jury result in the new area is, I mean, in my opinion, 46, but there's just like a lot of components to that. And I think at the end of the day, I think probably they perceived Charlie to not have done as much as he did. Right. And so, yeah, my point being, like, I think New Area Jury is really reward, you know, intentional gameplay, aggressive gameplay. And so I think, yeah, I think that's another reason it could be a good move for him. All right. Let's talk about Sophie's decision that she had to make in this episode because it was an interesting one where that the people from the old Hina bottoms up.

up and that four felt like, okay, Sophie Sogretti, she's going to vote with us. Obviously, she sees Savannah and Rizzo as being the threats that they are. Certainly, she'll vote with us to take out the big fish, Savannah. And she said, no, I don't think so. I don't want to do that. I actually like being with the other people. Like, I think that if I go with you, I'm the biggest threat on this side. You already tried to, you know, vote me out or wanted to see me go home on previous votes.

Why would I go with you all? Well, first of all, absolute credit to Sophie Segretti. I think she's come on so strong. Yeah. And, you know, and I don't read to it or too much or whatever. They're like, you know, she still has this idea that she's, like, got no edit. But if you look at the last three or four episodes, like her edits really come on strong. And she's already won the biggest.

The main character. She's won the biggest award of all, not the fishy, but she is my mom's favorite this season. So, shout out to Sophie Sogretti. Yeah. At what point did your mom adopt Sophie S as her favorite? Basically when she started getting screen time at the merge, my mom was on the, on the Nate train, and then Nate left at the merge, and then Sophie Sogretti replaced him. So, but she's doing great. And, well, this is a very interesting decision, but credit to her for being in this position.

position. She was in a pretty nasty position, like in the pre-merge, basically being everyone's targeted and she didn't, like, her allies weren't her real allies. And she's really, really adjusted and pivoted. And I've been really impressed by it. Because now she's got all this power. She has all this influence. And she made a very, very pivotal decision this week. I think there are a lot of things going through her calculus probably. I think, and I think this narrative has been painted in the camp, but it's also true, is that she is just a really huge immunity threat. And so I think that obviously because she's an immunity threat that makes her a threat at large. And it's a reason why her old allies wanted to get rid of her, didn't value her.

And so she's probably thinking, okay, well, I'm a big threat because I can win immunities. Let me get to the end in any way I can. And if that means working with probably who she perceives to be the like threats, then this is going to be a big. benefit for her. And so I think that is her thought process. And let's say that Sophie B and Savannah and Rizzo are a locked in trio that still gives her the fourth spot, which you can get in through brute force, through firemaking. So I think that those are the pros to it. I think the con, and I want to hear your thoughts, but the one con is probably like if we're going down the immunity threat train, like it's, I don't think this is totally true.

but you kind of get in you kind of like lock into this like there's probably this idea that savanna's probably her only immunity threat so if she get rid of her then she's got like a straight shot but yeah but but i've been liking her game for sure do you think that there are any parallels in the you know sophy savannah relationship that has really also blossomed post merge that do you see any parallels to rachel and genevieve where then i feel like that sophy now is coming on as the person who's winning challenges and somebody who did not really have the best relationship with her original tribe i could see her a little bit kind of like as the rachel and she's kind of like gravitated to this other player who has a lot of heat on them and that okay this is somebody

who yeah in another season maybe we could be rivals going against each other and we're finishing like one two and a lot of these challenges but what if we stayed together um and it's interesting where that there is this interesting relationship where in a season where we're also hearing a lot about Savannah the mean girl, that she's not, she's not a girl's girl, she's not getting along with some of the women. But there's actually this other group of women where Savannah and the sofs who sort of like identify each other as like, yeah, we're kind of like the biggest threats and we should work together like that I think that that's interesting.

And I just, I hadn't really thought about Rachel and Genevieve in, in, in, the way that there was sort of like this respect factor for each of them. Do you see any of that between? And again, with 47 being the last season, full season that they had watched before they go out there, that do you think there's anything to that?

Well, it is a mother-off in both cases for sure. So the parallels are there. Yeah, I definitely see that. Well, first, one thing to note is that Sophie Sogretti listed Rachel as the person she wanted to play most like in the preseason. And I see the path there now because, yeah, she's got the, she's got a big threat based off of like immunity wins, of course.

But yeah, maybe at 47 is on top of mind and like those parallels are, they probably are happening on the island. Like Sophie's Gregory probably thinking about maybe likening her relationship with Savannah as like a parallel Rachel Genevue situation. And it worked out great for Rachel as it was, right? But there are probably viewers who are like, oh, they should like just combine forces. They should actually work together. Then they could dominate the game. And maybe that is what Sophie's Regi's thinking. And so I do see the parallels a lot, actually.

That's really cool. But I wonder then, yeah, I wonder what her end game path is if she's, if she's decided to bend with them for real. Or if she, I don't know if she is doing that or if she's just enjoying the middle position. that she's in. I mean, do you think that her move is that, hey, there's four over there. It's the new era. I just need to get to the top four. And I know I can make a fire that, you know, she's very capable in the challenges. We know that she has been in the survivor pipeline for some time being an alternate. So I bet she has a feeling that she could probably be really good at making a fire. So all I need to do is get to four. And what a better way to get to the four with, you know,

the other self, Savannah, and Rizzo. I don't know if there's a path for her to double back with the Stephen or Christina or Sage. I agree. And I think she's like staked, you know, the path that she's going on. But no, all that we said,

it makes a lot of sense. I think it is a sort of like a lion's hyena's component to it. But also, not for nothing, but like it seems to me loud and clear that she just gels with that group. way better socially than who she was with and that definitely goes a long way and credit to i would say both sophy and rizzo for going from zero trust to working together on that mc vote i think

at least so far it's benefited them both a lot uh so yeah i guess along these lines i guess what would be most i'd be most curious is if she joins the then becomes a four and and then gets the end game and she's sitting next to Rizzo and or Savannah or Sophie B, who I want to talk about Sophie B too, who I've liked the whole season. Is that a winning argument? This is the thing where there's ambiguity,

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IKEA, bring home to life. I have a tough question for you, okay? Yeah, yeah. This four that we've seen now come together. Okay, this four and they use the extra vote to vote out Jo-Wan in this episode. will the final four in this season be two sophies savannah and rizzo where the next three boots in some order are christina and stephen and sage it will that be the case andrew um it's an excellent question i think they're as we get into the final seven is

definitely the endgame. So there are very strong forces that are going to pull in different directions. I think they've built a lot of loyalty. Now, Sophie Sogretti's there. I think she's definitely four out of that four out of four. But that tree. I don't know if she minds. Who cares if you're four out of four? No, no. Yeah. That doesn't mean you're dead. That's just where she is, but the tree of themselves, I think there's a, I think there's a possibility that they are, like I said, they have found an unusual amount of loyalty to each other where even if they are not the optimal people to sit next to, they might, they might do that. The counterforce, though, is that as you go, it gets more tempting and more tempting.

Like, let's say we go to seven, then we get to six. At that point, you are making very, very, like, surgical endgame decisions. And again, I don't know where the chips fall is it, but if it's possible that maybe Christina has lower jury stock than some other people, at that point, are you, going to go and actually pull the trigger and give rid of her or are you going to you know put your whatever endgame strategist hat on and take a shot at someone that you've been working with um and so as we go from seven to six to five to four those decisions get way they get that gets very very tempting um and that could definitely split them up so i would say they're i would say they're not

going to actually be the final four i think they're going to be three of the final four i think they're going to dominate that rest of this game but there's going to be maybe a blind side in between yeah it's It really is a tough question, and I would love to, you know, know, know from the listeners, you know, if you want to write in the YouTube comments, if you think this will be the final four, this won't be the final four. I kind of, I feel like it will be, but the one thing in the back of my mind and probably like this was not what he was intending was that Jeff said like, oh, 49, it's going to start slow, which, okay, you know, that he kind of, you know, nailed it on the money. But, and then he said, he says, and then the post merge is one of the most unpredictable postmerges we've ever had. And so can it be super unpredictable if at the final seven, we sort of now will have like a little bit of a pagoning of like, there's like killing off the rest of Hina? Good question. I think when we think about what could happen from here to the end, that is unpredictable.

It is, I think we've set up so many of these advantages and how they actually pay off can lead to a lot of unpredictability. There's not that many advantages. I mean, we have knowledge is power and Rizzo has an idol. But those are both very significant. So, like, those are important advantages.

Like, Rizzo's idol, like, that's like the biggest Chekhov's gun like ever. Like, there's been so much narrative suspense being built up of what's going to happen with that. It's going to have to pay off in some way. And the same goes for Sophie B's knowledge is power. And she's, This is really, really great that she's been able to hold onto this the whole season.

It's so funny because, in theory, knowledge is power is like the best advantage in the game, but we've never seen it been used correctly yet. And so it's a huge, Sophie B, we could talk about her. Yeah. She was my winner pick for most of the season. She's been great. She did a lot of good work in the premurge, and she's found a really, really great spot for her. And she definitely has a viable winner even to this point.

point. But I think now that she's she's like solidified in an alliance with a lot of people who've done a lot themselves in their own rights, whether she wins or loses this game is going to completely depend on how she uses the knowledge of power, in my opinion. It's her one calling card. It's her one ace in the hole. And she has to use it to like a real, real payoff. I think knowledge is power as powerful as it is, I don't think you could pull Marianne and then let it expire and be like, hey, I had a knowledge of power. Because the nature of that advantage is like, well, what did you do with it? It's inherently offensive.

But when you say pull Marianne, like what she needs to do is like when Marianne voted on Omer, that part of that part of pulling a Marianne where it's like, okay, here's this thing that nobody knew that I had and then I'm going to use in a way that's going to completely shake up the game. I think that she could use the knowledge's power in that way. Now, Christina had the idol, and there was an opportunity for her to take Christina's idol. Do you feel like that that was a good no play on her part to not take Christina's idol at that tribal council? I think she could have done it both ways.

I think what's good is that she still has it, obviously, and that idol was pretty inconsequential in terms of, you know, just was flushed by itself. but I think there's a lot to be said about the urgency for her to use this correctly and this goes back to what I said about like not just like there's like the layer of the game of just getting yourself to the end and like you know but there is like I said an inherently perform performative aspect of especially the post merge of survivor and I think it's going to be really really important for her to use it correctly so if she did it this round it would have been a bit a lot she would have gotten a lot of points for being the first person in survivor history to use the knowledge of power correctly but now that now that she's here

I mean listen I just as a viewer I think I think it's clear I think it's clear I think it's clear what she needs to do to win the game I think she needs to within the next couple rounds use it on reserve to great effect and blindside him at a critical moment and yeah get him out and then go on to win the game. So I'd love to just talk through the mechanics of knowledge is power because we've never seen it used successfully. But do you think that the knowledge is power move needs to also be like piggybacked with another move?

So for instance, like we've never seen a person just like, okay, hey, Christina, do you have an idol? Okay, give it to me and I'm not using it tonight. now I have a public idol and now I've taken your idol and also you're not getting voted out tonight. And so now let's just go back to camp and stew on this. I like what you said about stew. And then let's like let's marinate in this where now I have now become a pariah to Christina where she's going to be like, how could you do this to me? So where do you get off? And it's almost like I feel like that the knowledge is power move needs to be part of like, oh, okay, we, we know you have an idol tonight.

Andy, do you have an idol? Yes. And it's also going to be that part, that second part of it where now we are going to, I'm taking the idol and I'm playing it for this person and we're also voting you out. Like, I think it needs to be part of, like, a really big caper that happens at that tribal council. Like, to just take somebody's advantage, it's sort of like, you stole my thing. Why did you do that? Like, that's so messed up. Yep.

I 100% agree. I do think part of the potential, what downside of what Rizzo just did is when the jury questions them, they'd be like, to what purpose, to what end did you do that? like, what is the reasoning behind your move? A jury does expect that much. Like, if you have a big move, it has to have actual logic behind it, 100%. As far as the knowledge is power, I don't think it is a general rule that it needs to pay off in this giant big caper. If you have the knowledge is power of the pre-merge and let's say you use it to kind of a medium-effective, the early merge, that's kind of fine. but at this stage

once it's been going on for this long it needs to pay off I think in a end game changing move if you just use it just to use it not only are you not going to get very many points for that but

I think a jury would be like what you expected that to impress us like you know you didn't even really like you didn't even move the needle with that and so since it's we're in the end game and she's held on to it for so long I think the payoff and the position that she's in in particular, I think because she is in the dilemma of having to differentiate herself from her allies, who she's probably going to have to sit next day, at least one of them. I think there's a lot of pressure to use this to a significant effect.

And when it comes to what you can do it for significantly, there is only one idol still in the game. And not only is it one idol, but it's an idol that in its own right has captured a lot of attention. trying to flush it for for rounds and rounds and rounds, and no one's been able to do it. So no one's been able to stop Rizzo from getting his way with his idol. And so from a sort of a narrative perspective, if she's the one to finally accomplish that, and it's her own ally, she's doing it at a critical time. And it leads with a blind side. Yeah, that's a huge move.

It's a huge move. She's been so interesting to me because I feel like that she has been, she's such a sharky player. We know from her confessionals that she's so. cutthroat. She was willing to steal Alex's idol. She was willing to try to like basically like blindside Alex to get him to not play his idol so that she could vote him out. But she has really presented this character to everybody else of like, oh, I'm just, I'm just an extra vote, whatever you want to do. And that's so not who she is. Like I really think it's been such stagecraft that she's been able to do that I don't know if I can't think of another player who's been

able to pull off this sort of like Kaiser Sose type of persona of I'm just you know whatever you want to do I have nothing and she's been able to just hide this part of her personality for so long I love that I love that and I totally agree especially I'm sitting on that she has the knowledge is power yeah yeah 100% and she gives nothing away yeah and that's been that's been really impressive her ability to have these close allies but still have the wherewithal to have information that's just for herself i think it's a sign of a really good player in terms of the kaiser soze of it all i i can only speak to the fact that i've tried to do that on my season for sure and i think it got me some i made some progress on that where i i i got

I'm happy with the screen time I got but there's a kind of an element of my game that they didn't lean into which is the fact that like I was kind of there's a lot of silly stuff I was doing on purpose to as a way of downplay myself as much as possible so they wouldn't see big endgame moves coming

and so I can put myself in her shoes in that standpoint where I think that is a good strategy it puts you in a certain dilemma though where it's like okay if you build a certain perception Now, that gets you really far, but then you have to then kind of get out of that hole, if you will, like by doing things to actually change that perception. And it remains to be seen if that can be accomplished at just a final travel council to go from zero to 100. In the U.S. Survivor, I don't think that's ever happened.

So I think what it takes is endgame moves, at least that's what we see in the new era. Endgame moves with some spectacle on it is what you can do to shift your perception at the exact right time. And so everything we're talking about with her, which has been a very strong game, I think it all converges on, and it's rare that this is the case,

but it converges on like one action item for her, which is like use this knowledge of power to great effect, in my opinion, on Rizzo. and then all of it's going to sort of like come together and she could win the game doing that when I was watching the episode and we saw the moment with Christina where she was talking to Jeff I was also you know thinking about because in describing it I called it a meltdown on the matter or an emotional moment sure sure sure and you know I certainly thought of you from the Survivor 47 premiere did you see any parallels in what Christina was going through and what you were experiencing?

Or was it because what you were going through was a really a physical issue more so than what Christina, which was seemingly like a lot of emotions? Well, a lot of emotions on my end as well. So there's a lot that I can't speak to about Christina's experience. But I think that there are, here's what I can speak to is the fact that, Obviously, Survivor, it's designed to sort of strip you of all of your normal coping mechanisms. You're in a completely unfamiliar environment. Everything's taken away from you.

And the only thing that's left is the bare emotion. I think with this moment in particular, I think something that probably doesn't come through on the show is actually the specific vibe of a Matchat. Matt chats before and after challenges. Sometimes they're just fine. They're just boring. But they feel like in a specific way, a very big vulnerable stage. I mean, as a player, like you don't see this, but that's in that challenge environment is when there's just like a ton of cameras

and a ton of crew members right behind you. And then Jeff is asking you questions. And it feels just a little bit different than the intimate. of travel council. And so that, I think as a result, if you are in some level of distress, the match hat is like weirdly where things can kind of come to a head. Cynically, it's kind of like not the right environment for you if you're in distress. But, you know, it's also leads to interesting character moments, 100%.

And so I think, yeah, that's my, that's sort of my perspective on it, is that, yeah, that's a, it's a, it's a strange venue to be feeling emotions and it comes out. Is that because that you're saying like there's all these people watching and there's all these cameras around and it's sort of like that there's like an overwhelm in, in a way that at tribal council, it really just feels like it's a smaller group. Whereas, you know, you're literally looking at, like, the cameras represent a lot, but then there's also, like, literally hundreds of people standing around. Exactly. That's exactly what I'm saying. Trouble Council is designed to be, have an intimacy feel. You know in the back here and behind that there are cameras there, but you don't feel,

you just feel like Jeff is there. Honestly, you and the other players. Challenges are a giant stage. you feel like not in a way that makes you like whatever performer or whatever necessarily but uh you just kind of you feel the the gravity of it and then Jeff will ask you you know what's the what's your emotion right now um and I think it's a yeah it's this doesn't come through on the show but Matt chats are a it's a it's a weirdly vulnerable time to be emotionally vulnerable. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I want to ask you about Sage, who I know was a alternate for Survivor

47. Did you feel like that you were getting good vibes from Sage when she was up Honduras with you all? So, so shout out to Mike Bloom. I love Mike Bloom, but he, uh, he did me so dirty in the pre game press because we all, we all get the question of, uh, who you feeling good about, you know, whatever. And in the preseason, I don't know, I was being very enthusiastic during the Mike movement interview. I said, Mike, I'm going to give you the best answer you've ever gotten. And then what I did in reality was I, by initial, I think I listed all of the 19 other people and my impressions on them. And he completely cut it. So like none of it was released. So it looks like I hyped up the best answer ever and gave the worst answer ever. That's fine. I'm sure the answer

was kind of all over the place. But part of that, the person I talked, maybe the most about was Sage. This is before I knew she was the alternate. Yeah. And I got such a strong, powerful aura from her. I was actually like, thought, I was like telling Mike, I'm like, this is the star of our season. So I was kind of really gagged when she was, when I found out the next day, she was the alternate.

You were early. Yeah, year early. Like, there was something that was very magnetic about her. It's weird in preseason. You're not, at least in 47 pregame, you're not talking. into each other, maybe for other seasons is different. But so you just go off

it's actually the weirdest time anyone could go through. Like it's just such a weird unique situation to be sitting with people for a week in a crazy like calm before the storm type environment. But you're not actually getting to know each other. You're not talking. You're just coming up with these silent

impressions. But Sage was someone that I knew I would really like and that definitely came true watching her on the show um yeah but i got this like powerful aura from her for sure yeah and you felt good you felt like you would want to work with her yes yeah i thought honestly i thought she was she read to me as a huge threat but i i i did like her i wanted to work with her um now going to the show she is i have to say like different than i thought but in a really great way

like very pleasantly less surprised to like kind of know the the human right behind it and how she is as a player. I've really liked her the entire time. I think especially in the pre-merge when I was kind of feeling like there were things that weren't really like, there was not much that was sticking out or like super memorable. I thought that she was sticking out as a character in like a really good way. The, you know, she's got her whole thing with the vomit and the bodily fluids in the

I did not see that coming. Yeah, the gas, but I mean, I personally find that charming. So I've really, really liked her and I've really liked Joanne. So on an emotional level, I've been behind them as a duo this entire time. We could talk about like the moves that they made to get themselves to this point. But I'm 100% rooting for Sage. Yeah, well, let's bring Joanne into this too because he ends up going out in this episode and he was such a big character. So tell me about this duo of Joanne and Sage.

well they're great because they were you always like the story on Survivor you know like they're kind of the two on the outs of the original Uli and of course like I like when I was watching it like they both had moments of vulnerability of like getting to root for them as as underdogs and I thought it was amazing when they flipped the script to the merge I thought that was really really good from them I think I thought that was really great sort of game-changing thing that they did to flip at the merge and really seemed like he was going to set the course

for the rest of the game and so yeah, no, I've just enjoyed them a lot but as far as these last few rounds have gone it's obviously felt like to me each round that they were they kind of making a big half measure to not keep

whittling down Rizzo and Savannah and that side of things and it seems to have come to a head this episode where like a blackhead yeah pop but where do you think that they made their wrong move because I thought that what was interesting about them was that I felt like that when they went together on the split tribal council that it seemed like like sage was like hey let's flush Rizzo's idol and I felt like that Jawan was like oh no like we can let's like uh let's let's let's go with rizzo and savanna here and then i felt like that last week i felt like that joan was the one that was like okay now's the time we're gonna we're gonna

flush rizzo's idol and we're gonna go after rizzo and i felt like that sage was more no let's get alex this time and then we'll flush rizzo's idol because savanna is once savanna was off the table as being the target, then I think that she was like, oh, no, no, this is good. Let's get out, Alex. Yeah. Well, it's tough because, I mean, that just goes to show it really is all about timing. And that misalignment has kind of, that's kind of what really occurred here because they knew, and Sage had multiple confessions about this. They knew the urgency of getting, of swinging over and, you know, getting rid of one of, uh, resource of Anna.

They've known that for a few rounds. I think that it's just, it's really difficult to play the middle. And the two of them couldn't agree on the exact right time to do it. I think that probably what was going through their heads during this period of time was that they were picking off players who they really weren't in with. So like as much as they were in a middle position,

Alex was like kind of, I don't think they had a relationship with him, not a real one. And he was trying to play the middle game as well. So they probably looked at that as a as a good person to take off the game board because they're like, oh, well, we're still in the middle list. You know, then we have Rizzo and Savannah and Sophie B that we have ties with. And then we can always swing back to the old Hina. So that's probably why they wanted to get rid of Alex.

The MC vote, the details are a little blurry already. But like, I think the, in summary, like, they just didn't time it right. They knew they had to do it, but they, but they, but they didn't. didn't time it right and then so over this round sage is like okay well it's definitely got to be savannah um and because of a mix of different advantages and the dynamics like they couldn't get it done this round and juan left so yeah and the original sin for everybody from that side was to vote out Nate at the merge phone right well that was a demonstration in being risk averse like i think yeah for everyone i think that is a good lesson right

So they really wanted, there was so much momentum to rally votes against, again, the Savannah Rizzo duo. But they, since they knew that Rizzo had an idol, and I guess they just couldn't, they couldn't split it how they wanted to, right? Did she win the immediate round? We were in San Francisco, and I think that that was, it was the final 11, and there was Nate, Savannah, Rizzo, and so were the four people. that were being blindsided. They thought they had Joanne and Sage. And so ultimately, it was going to be seven people that were voting together. And then they put the seven votes on Nate.

I think Sophie Zagretti might have won that immunity. But in any case, they didn't want to split the vote in that scenario. So they could have, you're right. They could have gone for Savannah. But this is the one round where Rizzo's guard was down. So he had the idol, but he could have ended up. This is, in that round, he was just like the people in 46. And so in that case, I think it really pays to at some point, you have, like, if you're in that position, like, oh, should we split the vote?

Should we load up on someone? You really, that is a very important decision. And it, one way or the other is correct in different situations. That's what makes it tricky, right? Sometimes splitting is like absolutely the thing you should do. You're going to look like a bonehead if you don't split it right. But in other cases, you're being. way too risk-averse and like you have them in your sites you just load up on it and because in

most of those cases let's say Rizzo at the last second plays his idle for everyone but one person they weren't even going to be the ricochet so it's more than worth it to take that risk and yeah who knows what how this game would have gone if that happened and well first of all I really liked Nate so I wonder how he would have fared in this post murder but um now that that is a an absolutely pivotal vote for Survivor 49 yeah i think that Nate for his skill sets i have described him as the person who was like really keeping things very like cohesive and calm and i don't think that this uh like had had you know Savannah gone out or Rizzo gone out like i don't think that we would have been able to see a lot of the fireworks going on in this post merge where i think that he

probably would have just been somebody who was like keeping things like he's not a flipper I don't think that he necessarily was going to get people to like be making you know frantic bad moves like I think it just would have been very much like okay well he's on his side and you knew where he was yeah well I think he played a game that definitely was aligned with his strengths I was really liking what he was doing like because he would make subtle moves on the margins and I think a player like that is going to be really good in a let's say like a Reba 4 type of dynamic on the other on the other hand

maybe he was a kind of poorly served to be in that specific alliance though I mean he had no control he was just with those Ulies but like that's that particular alliance they were kind of being they were especially out there they were polarizing they had big targets

on their backs and so for a player like him just to be collateral damage to by being the glue guy of that alliance. It's kind of, yeah, almost like a sad faith for him. If he were, like, if he were with a different tribe and he was kind of the glue guy of a, like I just mentioned, like a Rebo alliance, I think he could have definitely, yeah, he has a potential to be a, play a really good game.

Andy, I want to get into some of our listener questions with you, but I got to take a moment and thank our presenting sponsor for this episode. those are our friends over at Manta Sleep. Of course, Manta Sleep that they are producing incredible sleep mask. Annie, are you a sleep mask guy? Well, I should be. I don't think I've ever tried it. Oh, well, you're going to love it because Manta Sleep Masks have ultimate adjustability,

much like yourself in the game of Survivor and all sorts of premium features and 100% blackout with customizable fit, comfort, especially for the side sleepers. Now, are you a nap guy? Not a nap guy. You will be after the turkey today and it's going to be even easier with a sleep mask from MantaSleep. Go to MantaSleep.com. Use protocol at RHAPB 49 for 10% off your MantaSleep purchase and check out everything else going on over at MantaSleep.com. All right, let's let's get into some uh some of our questions for you from the listeners and let me let me see what the listeners had to say all right how about from ues prime wants to know was the riso fake idol move some kind of operation italy that will play out in the next episode i don't know if it was a

multiple part episode but do you think that any of this was inspired by Operation Italy. Directly inspired, I really, I really can't say. Here's where it's similar. First of all, there's a fake idol, so that's something. But I think more to the point, it kind of, I believe Rizzo's feeling a certain way that I was feeling around that time where it was like, hey, let's go for broke. Like, let's treat Survivor like my sandbox.

I could do what I want. I could just try things even if they're likely. They're unlikely. They stick out. They don't stick out. That is me like expressing how I want to play Survivor. And so that is the most fun way you could play the game. And so I appreciated the gall more than anything.

How about we want to know from you, should production give the players rice for the simple fact that it creates drama at camp from Ryan Miles So the rice thing I'm not surprised we skipped the negotiation scene so far With the new era I am not a new era complainer necessarily

There are things I like about the new era There are things that I'm glad that they stuck with Such as let's say shot in the dark for example I'm glad they stuck with that but this era is defined characterized by being just doing this like being very stubborn like not getting rid of things like at all not pruning these ideas maybe enough the rice negotiation was cool I think it led to a couple cool moments in the new era but like a lot of things like overtime it's just been gamed out of the system like it's just converged on we're not going to play

for rice and so this is a great time for it to lose steam because they should just get rid of it for for 51 so this was sort of my galaxy brain thought on the rice negotiation after you know i i watched the episode again and it really was such a non factor of that you know jeff comes out as rice negotiation and certainly in the new era that this was what inspired me to ask since when when jeff said hey we know everybody knows that on day 16 we're going to do a rice negotiation to get people to sit out of the camp because that's like and he would talk about on the on the on fire podcast that we've done the science of day 16 is when the players need this sustenance and so you have this rice negotiation it ultimately it doesn't go anywhere and

i think people would say like oh why was this even in the episode why do they even are they even include this but this is my galaxy brain take tell me if you think that this is rob You know, lay off the turkey already. Okay. So they do this now. Day 19 is our rice negotiation. There are seven days left in the game. And Jeff comes out and says, all right, I need three people to sit out of the challenge here on day 19 to get this bag of rice.

And it's, again, it's the rice negotiation. Joanne says, how about two for half the bag of rice? And Savannah's like, oh, Joanne, you're blowing it. You're hurting it. Jeff's like, well, it is a negotiation. I don't have to say yes. I don't have to go in. And then kind of like where it's like it doesn't seem like we're going to like Christina

wants to play. It's we're not getting anybody who wants to sit out of the rice negotiated. And Jeff very, very quickly. Like, all right, that's it. Obviously, you guys don't want to do it. I feel like, did they, did they, was it not even a real negotiation weird? Like, did Jeff just bring out the bag of rice on day 19, ask for three players, knowing that the players were, nobody was going to take this? Only just to say, see, that's how bad everybody wants it in this.

game i love i love how nobody's willing to sit out of a challenge for rice here on day 19 i think what's more to like there's true to that i think what's more to jeff's taste and productions taste is they're happy either way like they know how to spin it so if they start negotiating for rice now it's interesting in one way if they just say no you just see jeff switching gears like okay well that's because you want it so bad and you know that's goes to show i mean who's sitting out on day 19 i think that's i think that's i think that's That's true. It's one thing if it's like, okay, it's, you know, day 15, day 16, it's like, oh, my God.

It's like, well, we still have like 10, 11 days still to go. And there's all these people. I haven't eaten yet. But, you know, we made it a point where every single person has eaten. A lot of these people is like, okay, well, either like best case scenario is I'm here the whole day and I starve or worst case scenario is like I'm not here, but I'm eating. Yeah. I think

Who's incentivized with like day 26 is a half day really and you're getting a breakfast so yeah it's no mystery like like Rizzo

came out right and said it exactly right it's like you know we have a week left like you know I can eat rice after a week if they want to keep this I think it's very clear

that this is way too late in the game to do it I do think it would and historically has been more interesting a little bit earlier on, not even the mid-merge, but like I think maybe the earlier merge because that is when the merge tribe dynamics and etiquette and blah, blah, blah, is still being negotiated and it's still like matters a lot how you do anything in terms of like whether

you're going to sit out or not or, you know, projecting how much you want the rice or don't want the rice or how much you're willing to help someone else. that is all more interesting in the early merge by the time we're at final eights it's just different it's just like we all know where we stand and it's just we want you know everyone wants immunity in that situation and so that is pretty clear it's pretty clear that they want to do the race negotiation it should be earlier in the merge and largely they should just I saw a clip of you talking about this I'm excited I really am interested in this topic of what What's this going to look like after 50?

Oh, Survivor 51. Yeah, Survivor 51, exactly. Like, we've been running the playbook for nine seasons, and I know we talked about this maybe the last time I was on the podcast, but it's a really exciting and interesting and scary time, honestly, to envision what Survivor is going to look like in the 50s because they've, like I said, they've been staying to the same course, but they're getting to a point after 50 where I think they probably,

themselves on being creatives, and they're going to be in the mood to change things up once we get to 51, 52, et cetera. And so it's going to be a newer era. Like, it's going to be the same thing. You know, it was the same motivations. Going through the late 30s into 40, and then the pandemic happened, but then they're just, they had time to think about, okay, where we want to take Survivor next? And they ran that for nine seasons.

Survivor 50 is going to be its own thing, I guess, right? But it's the same situation. Now they have a landmark season with returning players. And they're going to be like, okay, how do we keep this interesting now? And so I think we're seeing the last of the blueprint, you know, with the, with the rice negotiation, everything else. Yeah. And I don't ever mean to like try to be like piling on. And, you know, I hope that I don't come across as a new era complainer.

You know, I feel like that there are times. where like things are working in times where things aren't working but I like would love to see like a little bit of like a focus group of like hey what are one of the things you love about Survivor what is the thing what are the things that's that's that's kind of a different show and Rob we just did a fan vote that was the focus. We just did we did a fan vote and you know and so I you know like I just hope that we are like going to really like take some time to like think about like okay what's what's what's really working like what's like in the if we're going to really crystallize like what is it that people do love about survivor and have always loved the survivor and how do we

create more of that and and and do those things and still you know push the envelope in certain directions like I think that like that it's really because you know if we if we come into you know 51 and it's like actually it's it's this is the plan and it's it's not the right plan I don't how we course correct well it's interesting there's a lot in the pot like mike white is back on the radar so maybe he'll have his two cents i'm like white we're counting on you but i like i said it does echo where we were five years ago but i think that like mike white has to like in each season of the white lotus it's like okay what is what is the what is the white lotus what are the types of things that we know that the audience wants to see what do we have to make sure it's yes

it's different characters but how do we make sure that they're that these are the the things that are essentially the white lotus that we bring back season after season and I think that um like I just thought that they do like really I think that sometimes there's a thought of like no we we know we know what this is we know this is but I just hear from people constantly that it's like uh I don't know if they're really getting what is important to me yeah uh it doesn't have to be fan service right so that's all true i think there's one big missing piece to this equation in terms of predicting what the 50s is going to look like and that is survivor 50 itself so like i said how this kind of like echoes the past um winners at war wasn't just winners at war it was like

edge of extinction and fire tokens right um and so i i think 50 is going to maybe have a little bit of that where new stuff is going to be put in the pot just because it's such a big season and they're motivated to do that. And I think they're not going to have time to hear what the fans think about 50 before they film 51, I'm pretty sure. But they're going to put a lot in the crock pot

in season 50 and see what they like and don't like about it. And that's shout out to a parent. Did you showtime? And that's going to inform. Yeah, that is interesting. So what happens then when you take the old era? It's like, I think there's been a lot of the examination of like, how are the old era players going to adapt to the new era? But like, how are the old era players going to change the new era maybe?

I think that's true. I think that's, and that's interesting. I actually like that. And you have like with 50. I mean, there's going to be so much to talk about, obviously, but they are, it's very clear just with the, what we know. It's like, it's facing that question head on. It's like, it's a lot of new era players. It's a lot of old era players.

And it's going to be a clash of philosophies. And that's going to probably be, you know, worked out on that season. And yeah, it's going to be just a big, it's going to be a big landmark. And it's going to be, okay, and then Survivor, what I think they should do is exhale and reflect. and then let that inform where they move. Well, I think the challenge in terms of the timing is going to be, I think that Survivor 51 is going to film before Survivor 50 has even ended. Now the producers will have known how Survivor 50 goes,

but in terms of like the fan reaction to Survivor 50, that it's going to be not a possibility to be able to like where in winners at war, not that they did do that. If anything, I think that they, winners at war happened they took a breath and and jeff was very far down the road of like all right now building off of winners at war we're doing the fire tokens and then mike white famously said but is it fun and that ended up setting them on that course to go into ah danger is fun right right and we had the journeys and all sorts of things that came out of the idea of having you know this idea of this idea of

dangerous fun be one of the things that really define the new era. I think that another thing that really defined the new era is Jeff said it in the episode last night and I saw Mike Bloom, you know, really mentioned this on Chat BCC, was the idea of the game is the lore, the experience is the prize. And if there was anything that really defines the mission statement of the new era, even more so than Dangerous Fun. I think it was that idea of, hey, you come out to Survivor, you think you're playing a game for a million dollars,

but the real prize is the transformation. I can tackle it on a few different levels. You're right. That is completely his point of view right now. And it is really great to have the On Fire podcast, not for nothing. Because you really get an inside look of how Jeff and obviously the other producers you're thinking. and you can sort of look back and see how that impacts the show.

Speaking for me, I mean, when I first fell in love with Survivor, I guess it started with the gameplay and everything like that. It did, but I love all parts of it. And the character arcs resonated with me as a fan. And then you can never predict this, but then I went on to have, truthly, and I'm just speaking in the island experience, like a real transformation, like a real moment of character,

like a real moment of character growth. And I really am super grateful for that. And I think that it's changed the rest of my life in a really positive and good way. And so what Jeff says, it does ring true for me. And I think that's a good part of the new era. I think it's positive to reflect and focus on not just the game, but what people go through on a sort of, I don't want to say spiritual necessarily, but I got just a transformational level.

And Survivor's great because it's a maximalist. Like it has all these things. And it's just about finding the right balance of how you manage that to get the tone right and whatnot. But I like that part of the new era. And so, yeah, I don't have any complaints about that. I would say, yeah, go ahead. What I would say is, though, that I think it's great.

that that is a byproduct of the experience. I don't think that that should be the goal of the experience. I think that the goal of all of the people who go on to Survivor should be that my goal is to bring home, is to win and to bring home the million dollars. I don't think that the goal of anybody should be, I want to have a transformation by way. If you want a transformative experience, then I think that you should go visit Ecuador and there are easier ways to have a transformative experience than to participate in Survivor. I think that the goal of everybody that is being on Survivor should be to go out, to go win the prize. And along the way, maybe you do have an experience.

It is a transformative experience that you didn't know that you were looking for. I largely agree with that as well Yeah I think it you don't want to put the cart before the horse You don't want people to just go in like be like oh I survivor changed my life Like and I think Jeff kind of agrees with you if you look like he because he words it the same way every time It's like they are looking for people who are drawn toward the goal the game playing to win And yes as a byproduct you find that you like you know move your life forward in some some meaningful way I think that is part of the great secret sauce of Survivor but yes

you want like I said it's a mix but you want people to go in and they're there for the game and they're playing to win the game and so but every season you you do as like as a byproduct you do tell those stories so there's nothing wrong with that recipe but yes like I think a lot of people I think in many ways and I don't know if this era gets enough credit but when people when I hear I hear all these two plays about Survivor and the state of it and all and everything like that, I think in almost every way, they kind of reached the absolute sweet spot around, we'll sit late 20s, early 30s. I think everything was exactly Goldilocks. I think there's just the right amount of advantage. Before game changers, game changers being

a sort of pivotal point in the other direction, the right amount of advantages, the right amount of super fans, the right amount of like the tone was right, you know, everything was kind of perfect. Now, they weren't all the best seasons, but although there were some some amazing seasons during that era. But I think when I try to summarize how everyone feels about Survivor and like U.S. Survivor and then what they like about Australian Survivor, if production just kind of threw a lot out and then ran it back to how it was, what would you say is the perfect?

I mean, 33 is like, is popular. What was like the perfect sweet spot? It was almost Cambodia, even though that was a returning player season. Like, that was like, everything was late. I think really, you know, you know, I think, maybe even as far back as, like, Philippines, but I really feel like that the, um, the era of, and I call it the, the big moves era of basically, you know, from like, uh, 27 to, you know, properly until, and I think that really, um, Millennials versus Gen X marks the beginning of

the Fiji era, but they didn't know that they were going to permanently move to Fiji in that first year, but I feel like from like, uh, if you, if you want to really have like a, like 30, 37 through, 37 through 33 you know and then with with game changers really starting to be like okay now we're going that's where Advantage get in happens but I think that that is really

the purest gameplay and I don't think it's a coincidence that that really is like when you look at Australian Survivor that is basically like the format of that show that the gameplay lives in And not to say that they don't ever do wonky, non-elimination. But for the most part of that you have a few,

you have a few idols in the game, and you largely know what the rules are in terms of what the idols are. And that style of gameplay and that era, I think, was really the peak of what, you know, everybody understands the game. there's not any sort of like off the wall things that you don't you know can't anticipate and it's fine that that that's what the game should be i know i totally agree i totally agree with that yeah um yeah could i could i just just one last thing on that the the game is the game is the lore and the experience is the prize that i think that there where the byproduct can be that transformative

experience. I think that there can be also a temptation to find people who are either like, you know, struggling with something or like at like a, or at a crossroads and then bringing them to the show with the hope that they are going to be having that experience. And I don't think that that is the right way to find people for the show. I think that we should be looking at that transformative experience as the byproduct and not looking for people who are trying to have that experience or to highlight the struggles of different people who are looking for, you know, to prove that they can see, look, I can do it too. Right.

I think what I'm about to say is kind of like a lukewarm take. just like we've heard it a lot but um the real answer is just a mix of different types of not just people and personality types but to your point like casting strategic decisions um i don't know if they want zero of those but it like then there's the the other side of the spectrum is like this idea that everyone needs a tragic backstory um not 100% the case but to your point, like, is kind of their point of view that they want people to have that transformation as a byproduct during their experience. I think that you should have some of that.

You should have people who are just like killers who had like literally nothing as bad has ever happened in their lives and they just think they're going to like walk to the million dollars. You want people of not just there's been so much amazing diversity in the new era, but you want, of course, diversity across all axes. and it is when you have that mix and sort of true heterogeneity that you can really, I think that's just like when survivors really, really shining and people are playing with different motivations and different skill sets and different perspectives and they sort

of clash and mesh in cool ways. So this is part of our wish list for the 50s. Like, there are things that they can recalibrate. And I think casting is really not in a bad state. I think that newer casts are good. I think that this cast is good. They found a lot of good people, but it is, I think they can review the puzzle piece aspect of it. I think one of the things I've thought for a while, let's talk about 49.

I love MC and Jason, and I think that they're, I'm so glad that they play Survivor, and I'm glad that they did but when it comes to the 49 puzzle piece I kind of wish they kept in the two troublemakers because you just kind of feel like they're now missing piece of the puzzle and then so Jason could crush it on 51 MC could crush it on 52

but for 49 like we need it like those people I already know I don't know anything about these people but they were coming in trying to play the game differently than a lot of people I'll tell you something about the troublemakers they were not risk averse

I'll tell you that. They were willing to shake things up. They were willing to push the envelope. Yeah, yeah. So, like, if there's something that's still a missing piece of this season, like, that could have gone a long way. You know, because all it takes is, like, you know, one or two strong personalities who get their footing in the game. And it really defines the season. And so remains to be seen.

So for 51 and 52, it depends on where they're at in terms of their casting point of view. I think they do an amazing job casting at large. But they can tweak how, yeah, each cast, like the different, yeah, yeah, the different pieces of different points of view and diversity and whatnot. So, yeah. Hey, listen. I'm hopeful. I'm hopeful.

I'm hopeful for the 50s. I think that we're, like, everything we're talking about are not major changes. Like, I think there were just like saying, like, okay, maybe you, if you're going too far in this one direction like it's like there's course correction that i think that needs to be done and i sometimes i sense that there's a little bit of like a real apprehension to that course correction and like i i just hope we're open to figuring out like what are the things that people are not uh feeling as great about and how do we fix that do you know what they should do now this is a little bit in the weeds but we they should do it

to an extent they should bring back recruiting not just because I don't think everyone should not know the show you know people go way too far in that direction I think you need people to know the show but then you also like okay Australian Survivor I think one of the thing that they do pretty well is they do a ton of recruiting right and it's a big big cast every time and they cast like five super fans and 19 recruits and honestly like 12 of those recruits are just like suck honestly so like not suck but you know what I mean like don't make a good TV but then the gems are like the recruits that like really hit and that's because they're bringing something fresh and so what i say when they when i say bring back recruiting i don't maybe not the way that they used to do it or they just go on the venice beach or whatever however they used to recruit um yeah but if they like have like they get all these applicants that they like and are really great for the show and can fill so many of what they're looking for but then they like realize they want some maybe some other life perspective viewpoints blah blah blah people who don't know the show and then they do some targeted recruiting they just look, maybe they look on social media,

but they see like this incredible, I don't know, like someone excelling in their field who wouldn't apply to be on Survivor anyway and reach out to them in a sort of, you know, just to fill that gap. I think they could do that. Something that I've always said is that I feel like that everybody should have a superpower

who is on Survivor. And as long as they have like one trait that is really like off the charts and not everybody necessarily has to have that trait being like love of survivor or knowledge of the game. And so I think that if you find people who are like in their field, they have like one gift that that is going to be their trump card that's going to help them have a chance to win the game, like I think that you do get a very like diverse array

of personalities and like gameplay styles that I think are good. And what Australian Survivor also does very well is like with a cast of 24, it's like, oh, there's going to be some duds. We're just not going to show you that much about that. Exactly. That's what I mean. We're going to really bury them. And it's not necessarily about how we're going to really tell the story of every single

person. And, you know, that I do think that Survivor, US, like, to its credit, really does try to, and I think this was something that they did come about in the new era. And I think post-diversity initiative that they really were going to tell the story of all. 18 people where nobody has to feel like that they had this experience and they got nothing in the edit but is that always the best thing for the viewer well did every single person you know did we need to tell the story of every single person i i personally like that they don't purple anybody um out of the 18 not just for the player's sake but i think that like a season becomes

richer and more complex and better if you at least on a base level understand the perspective of everyone in the game everyone playing because then you can like really understand decisions better and I don't like when like you just don't even know what someone's game is

I think that makes it less interesting season but within that if you have a base level of acknowledging every player was there and whatnot what an Australian survivor does well is they do allocate screen time on a sort of meritocratic basis. It's like, you know, an Australia Survivor,

if you want to be on the screen, you've got to earn your screen time. And again, I don't want to go overboard talking about how Survivor's all performative and like for, and I'm not even talking about the TV show, but like there is just, that is a big part of Survivor and it always has been of just leaving your mark.

Leaving your mark, like obviously it's a big part of the TV product, but I think in many cases, It's a very underrated way to give yourself a chance to win the game. So as many players you have with that viewpoint is really good. Okay. Andy, tell me about something. Talk about hobnobbing with the glitterati that you recently attended the premiere of the movie The Running Man.

Yeah, that was super cool. That came my way. It was a kind of spontaneous thing. But the truth is I love Edgar Wright. is a film like he's the director of the running man i'm a huge fan of his um i love i don't know if you're aware like sean of the dead hot buzz uh scott pilgrim versus of the world so um was super excited to do that um with my good buddy kyle fraser and some big brother legends i got Tucker was there Tucker and T-Corps yeah so that was us in the photo and then Kelly

Nalbandian uh meet it i think she was in that photo too so yes um and that was the five of us i don't want to But that was really fun. That was fun. It was just like, I think that's the beauty of being part of the CBS family and living in New York City, sometimes opportunities come your way. Yeah. What other celebrities did you see? Oh my God. That thing was star studded.

Paul Rudd was there. J.J. Abrams was there. That's the guy I wanted to talk to you. I wanted to talk to him about Lost. But it's weird. When you're there, you want to play a cool a little bit. You don't want to go up to people. Like, Lost changed my life.

I feel like that's a little bit of hardcore, but um, uh, it was really fun. There were a lot of celebrities there. There were some people from The Bachelor were there. Uh, Darren Chris was there. Now I'm just name dropping, but, um, it was a, yeah, it was really cool. I've never been on our red carpet before. That was a sort of a new situation. It was a really cool side quest that yeah. Um, yeah. Did you, when you were on the red carpet, did you feel like you had the hair flips down did you bring out any of your any of your any of your any of your he's all that moves you know i should have done that so you you should uh help me do some content that would have been a great would have been great for me to do my he's all that moment on the right carpet but i was i was just

playing it cool i was just chilling with with tucker you know just just shooting the crap with tucker um but uh running man was a it was a great movie great movie check it out yeah um i um i i I saw the original when I was a kid, but... I hear it sucks. They said they had to remake it, but, yeah, I am interested. Well, because the Running Man is a futuristic reality TV show. I know. I think that's part of the sort of...

You know, they say in the Running Man that the game is the lore, the prize is the experience of being in the Running Man. Well, it's funny because in the first act of Running Man is a promo of Running Man. That's not quite how they put it. It's like you win a billion dollars or you die So that's the Is it a billion dollars now? If you win the running man

You get a billion So they've adjusted for inflation You know Unlike survivors What's in the running man And the hunger games Let's get into the weeds All right

Here's how the running man works They cast three people a season Yeah And they all go and they try to run It's just a big game of hide and seek Except there are people trying to kill them like snipers so there's a crack team that's part of production they're the hunters and they're they're like they're they're full of disguises and there's one with a mask and he's like a really

amazing mercenary but then also part of the premise is that the viewers if they see one of the runners um first of all the runners get villain edits uh you're supposed to hate the runners the viewers hate the runners they want you they want the viewers want the runners to be caught so if you see a runner in the wild, you take a picture of them, and you send Intel to the hunters, and then they can swoop in and kill the runners on live TV. Wow. I think Stephen King was, I think he was inspired by some, by Survivor. I think there's some interesting, definitely some interesting.

I think that's a running man predates Survivor. As that are true? I don't know. Okay. Well, that he was prescient. Very prescient then. Yeah, I think actually the Hunger Games, I think is. a little bit more based on Survivor.

Like, I think that the Hunger Games was written around like 2003, 2004, like sort of like at the height of Survivor and like reality TV and American Idol. Whereas the, I mean, the original Hunger, the original Running Man movie was based off of the book. And that was like in the 90s. Okay, gotcha, gotcha. As far as the Hunger Games, there's a very specific rumor. I haven't been able to fact check it because my girlfriend Shannon's a huge Hunger game. I do like the movies.

Yeah. But there's a specific, the, the, the viewers can fact check this. They can dig up this evidence. There's a rumor that Suzanne Collins, who's the author of Hunger Games, I believe, she was inspired specifically by Stephanie LaGrosa winning the fire making challenge at the, uh, catching fire. Yeah, yeah. Stephanie being the last member of, of uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, suzan Collins was watching it.

and was inspired to write The Hunger Games. That's the rumor I've heard. I've heard that two or three times. I don't know if that's substantiated. I don't know if that's an apocryphal's type of just a hearsay, but that's what I heard. Okay. Well, maybe she'll be watching Survivor 50. Wow.

It is kind of a quarter quell. Maybe Winters of War is the quarter of flow. But yes, yes. And then did you also go to the premiere of The Road? Yes, not that, though. Scroll through. Okay. why is this not the right is it not the right photo that's our app san francisco that was two minutes

before i talked okay let me see this is uh that's me and sam yeah that's Halloween okay that's uh this the jet lag people you know jet lag yeah they feature on your network yes that's the road okay this was the road have you been keeping up with the road i cannot not neither confirmed nor deny if i've been keeping up with the road um i was there at the premiere it was it was great there were two Contestants from the road were, they did live performances, and those were incredible. So you should check out the road as well. But again, this is just a really cool. Yeah, you're such a go-to company man for CBS.

I live in New York City, and then they email me, hey, come to this thing. And I'll just show up. That's my thing. What's just show up? Okay. All right. Well, anything from Thanksgiving you're most looking forward to. Oh

I'm a big stuffing guy Do you like stuffing? Yeah Have you talked about this? This is something you would talk about with Akiva Like are you a big Thanksgiving? I love Thanksgiving You know

My wife She does not care for the turkey She She got very angry at me last night Over She's like Where's a ham for me? me. I was like, what do we need a ham for? She's like, you know I don't like turkey. And then

at a spite, I was like, I went on in the Instacart and I ordered a ham to come to the house just to be like, she was so rude about it. She wasn't really like, oh, like, oh, like, oh, did you get ham? She was like, like, just like, very angry. And then. So I spite ordered from Instacart, and then they brought me like sliced ham like to make a sandwich. Wow. Well, you went the extra mile, so props for that. But my hot take, here it is my hot take. Thanksgiving turkey is so overhated now.

It's over. It's gone too far. It's gone way too far. It's going way too far. Turkey's amazing. You just have to cook it right. I think that's the hard part. I enjoy it.

Don't get me wrong. you know i like it yeah yeah you just i don't know what to put it with like you know i got the right mashed potatoes gravy corn blah blah um it's a delight and uh it it's it's it's pure thanksgiving so to to do thanksgiving without the turkey yeah and you're going to do other thanksgiving stuff i don't know about that but um but uh yeah yeah will the bills write the ship i always talk to you when the bills are down it's so unfortunate um it's not been it's not been an amazing season that's lived up to expectations so far.

How would the bills fans process the Patriots potentially that they were the last like threat to the bills that they've gone away and somehow have retooled and are back and ready to take the division back from the bills

with Stefan Diggs. Listen, this is a really sort subject to be honest with you. Then being good. sucks, but I'm way used to that as a Bills fan, but what they absolutely, what I could not bear, I truly could not bear if they were to, like, go to the Super Bowl this year. Like, I don't think I'd be able to handle it emotionally. Listen, I'm more rooting for the bills than, like, I have been a long time Josh Allen, a fantasy football owner in my long time keeper league.

So I really, I don't have any ill will towards, and honestly, I don't even have a lot of ill will towards these new Patriots where it's like I'm just sort of like hating the laundry like it's like you know that they haven't really done Drake May hasn't done anything to me Mike Vrable hasn't done anything to me

it's not like that Belichick and Brady are still there to antagonize me who like hate loathe the jets I can't overstayed how much I despise the Patriots when Tom Brady and Bill Belichick are in charge so that's true like we don't have

the same feeling toward Drake May certainly Stefan Diggs is not on our good side, so that definitely exacerbates the situation. But, you know, I'm sort of like the kid outside the toy store with my nose pressed up against the glass on all of this. My team hasn't made the playoffs in 15 years, so I'm all just like a casual observer of it all. But here's my top level thing. We don't need to get two in the weeds, but yes, I grew up, when I grew up, the bills were the least relevant franchise in the league. No one gave a crap about them, and they sucked, and I built up character.

they were wearing the ugliest jerseys in the league as well and they had a 17 year playoff drought so I've paid my dues I've built character and then now they're really good and they have been good for a sustained period of time and they have Josh Allen who's MVP quarterback and not only that the Bill's Mafia

National Recognition has gone through the roof now when it you turn on There's a Hallmark movie. There's a Hallmark movie Did it already come out? I want to give to that. I think I have it DVRD so holiday touchdown the Bill's story. I would went to a bill's game recently they did win the last win against the buccaneers i was there

with some familiar faces yes and the the hallmark the cast of the hallmark movie was also there and then the bills posted a carousel and it was the cast of the hallmark movie and and then i was on the next uh slide with some survivor players um but uh so yeah that goes to show you turn on any random NFL commercial and it nowadays it's it's like the the random background people are bills fans like our national recognition yeah so like um it's that has been very rewarding that's been a really um i'm grateful for that however it's it all rests on josh allen's bills winning a Super Bowl yeah that doesn't happen then it's just like it's not what's the point but the bill's legacy already is they've done everything except when a Super Bowl they lost four Super Bowls on a row

now they can't even get to one so they didn't know how they had it losing the Super Bowls I know. So I'm being present. I'm grateful. I'm wearing a Bill's shirt right now under here. That's all well and good. But all that to say in the next few years, the stakes are sky high. They actually, they absolutely need to win a Super Bowl. Or the vibes are not going to be so good anymore. But that's just how it is. Well, Andy, thank you for making so much time on this holiday to talk this through with me. I feel that we covered a lot of ground here today. Yeah, my pleasure. This was great. Always amazing talking with you. And yeah, not. No, we're sitting here at a very, very interesting time in the Survivor world. Yeah. And I can't wait to see, you know, where we all go next. Hope to see you again in person sometime soon. Next opportunity, I'm there. Yes.

And also that to all the listeners out there, I would be remiss to not mention my new book, The Tribe, and I have spoken. More than a few words here about Operation Italy, which was happening in the real time as the book. was being written and so many other thoughts. And I had made a video yesterday that if people want to pick up the tribe and I have spoken, it's available for pre-order. The book won't be out until May. But if you want to give the gift of the tribe and I have spoken, you can go to robesibook.com. We'll send you a postcard to share with your loved ones. So you have something to present to them, to let them know that the book is coming this year and for everybody else. Rob has abook.com. All right?

very exciting i pre yeah i preordered behind the mirror i preordered escape and i will absolutely preordered that as well okay all right well andy what else is coming up for you not too much just here in the holiday season yeah my life is pretty much back to real life you have any black friday purchases you're going to make oh great question i want uh like a whoop or like a wearable that tells me about how good like my sleep and nutrition and fitness is. I'm telling you you don't want that monkey on your back

because I had the Apple Watch and every day I'm looking at my sleep score and I'm like, oh, it's only an 82. What do I have to do? And I'm like, all right, here's what I'm going to do differently today. I'm going to get a 90. I'm got to. But I kind of need that struggle.

I want to do that. I just like I like when things are quantified so like that's just going to help me how off am I and how can I optimize? Does it really even know like how does it

I got some metrics yeah biometrics some truth to it for sure but I'm curious I can't say the pressure I put on myself like to get more deep sleep listen

you could always use more deep sleep I'm trying I'm doing everything I can like all right i'm going to take a hot shower right before bed because i'm going to get more deep sleep tonight well i'm right there with you i have found no correlation between anything i do and the amount of deep sleep that i get um i do you know what i've what's worked for me and this is wild what's worked for me is a recommendation that i got from stephen fishback not directly i think he just mentioned it on a podcast or like twitter or something

But it's this really niche podcast sleep with me. Yeah. And it's just like this one guy doing it. Yeah, Scooter. It's a shout out to Scooter. Shout out Scooter. He's the best. It's not a matter of like falling asleep per se or like the amount of sleep that I really

in like am in the weeds of like there is deep sleep, core sleep, REM sleep. Gotcha. That's above my pay grade. They say the deep sleep is where the math. magic happens. Yeah. That's where we all want to get to. You know, say what you will.

I mean, after the first week, my sleep on Survivor is probably better than real life. I slept great on Survivor. It was like, I think that it was like, it would annoy, like Rob and Amber were like, they could not get comfortable for whatever reason.

I like, you know, bedtime, I'm going to sleep for eight hours. It's all about what works for you. Like, I tried the bamboo and it was completely, you cannot sleep on.

I cannot sleep on bamboo. Bamboo is like, it's not even good for you. It's almost not worth even having a bamboo bed because it's just, it's just not comforting at all, at all. However, I just adjusted. I just slept in the dirt and it was perfect. It was great. There's no issues. Well, you know, there are critters and stuff, but all I had to do is sleep in the dirt.

I use my bag as a pillow and I just was lights out. Yep. Which is unexpected, actually. All right. Well, Andy, thanks for making so much time. Everybody, thanks so much for listening. We've got the patron Q&A coming up on Friday. Plus, I'll talk to Brett LaBelle this week as well.

So take care everybody. Have a good one. Bye. Hey, Rob here. And you know at RHAP, we're always talking about the ways to optimize your strategy on all of our favorite reality TV games. But there's a guy that I listen to in real life, who's the knowingest know-it-all when it comes to how to deal with your money,

and all sorts of other areas of your life. It's called All the Hacks, and it's hosted by the Master Optimizer, Chris Hutchins. This is a podcast I've actually listened to for a couple of years, and Chris is the king of life hacks, which is something that I love learning about. I'm always watching TikToks about all sorts of different life hacks, so this appeals to me so much. People love it. They've got so many great reviews.

Listeners have saved literally thousands of dollars in book flights that they never thought that they could afford, and it's hands down the most actionable podcast out there. One of the shows he just did episode 2.31 was 50 rapid fire hacks from all of the interviews that he's done over the years. One of the ones that I really loved was about emailing the hotel before you stay to get free perks, which is something that certainly appeals to me. So if you have a strategy mindset, if you love to travel, especially if you like free travel and fixing up your budget. This is a great podcast to check out.

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