RHAP: We Know Survivor - Andy Rueda Talks Survivor 48

Episode Date: May 27, 2025

Rob Cesternino welcomes Survivor 47's Andy Rueda on to the podcast to discuss the Survivor 48 finale.

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you have your Starbucks venti, because you know, sleep deprivation. You meet your best friend, she asks you how it's going, you immediately begin to laugh, then cry, then laugh cry, that's totally normal, right? She smiles, you hug, there's no one else you'd rather share this with. You know, three and a half hours sleep is more than enough. Starbucks, it's never just coffee. the We were going to check in during the season, but it didn't work out then. But we had a little bit of time to get the chance to talk this week.

So I'm so thrilled to welcome back Andy Rueda. Andy, how are you? Hey Rob, doing great. I'm so happy that we can make this work. I would have loved to talk during the season But this is a great opportunity to you know, do a deep dive on Survivor 48 and catch up And again, I always have to tell you this this is part of the dream come true I've been an RHFB patron for years as many people know and so like finally this is coming together I'm happy to talk. Yeah, it's a great thrill whenever we get to do it. I mean, maybe some of the listeners don't know, but we've been talking about Survivor for years.

Yeah. There is an archive out there, a very deep archive. People can snoop if they want. I have talked with Rob, how many hours have we talked? This is before I even heard an email from Survivor. 15, 20 minutes a week for how many years? I was one of these regular, you know, every year, you know, new people enter the rotation of people who want to call in every week and just speak their mind about survivor. I was definitely part of that tradition. So I'm, uh, you know,

it's a very, very, very circle and big brother. Oh yeah. Listen, remember when you started watching big brother one? Yes, that was, that was during the pandemic. We all kind of lost their minds at that period of time. But I yeah, so through our HAP, I became a huge big brother fan, and as well as a survivor fan. And so not to like spoil or whatever. But I think that you know, survivor 48 is kind of a big brother in season in many respects. So I'm happy to break that down. Let's unpack that. How, how's everything going outside of survivor 48? I'm doing great. Like survivor 47 was such as a ride of a lifetime. It was amazing.

I had since then, you know, had a post survivor sabbator sabbatical. And Rob, as fate would have it, this post-survivor sabbatical has officially ended and I have started my full-time job search today, of all days. Okay. The timing just couldn't work out better. So I'm definitely happy to like get back into real life. And so if anyone out there, you know,

add me on LinkedIn, you have any interesting like openings with machine learning, engineering? My specialty is natural language processing. My resume has been brushed up today. I'm ready to like get back into, into real life. My survivor year has come to an end. Okay. All right. Well, Andy, I'm sure that your survivor resume and your work resume are both sterling. I appreciate that. I appreciate that. Okay. So, all right. Tell me a little bit about your theory of survivor 48 as a big brother season.

Well, something that, so my favorite part about Survivor 48 is that it is unique in the context of the new era of Survivor. And that has been compelling for me the entire way. And I think the new era gets a bad rap for being very cookie cutter and samey. And so I love when, you know, a season happens. So does Big Brother. Yeah, so Big Brother in many respects, right? But what's interesting is, and I'm

fascinated about this process just in the sense that I was on Survivor 47, which is part of the same casting cycle. And I don't know this process. No players don't know this exact process. But throughout casting, they find the 36 to 40 people that they really like. But then they have to go through this whole process where they're separating them into two different seasons and I just think it's so fascinating The sort of the emergent social dynamic that happened on 48, especially as it contrasts to 47 because I think you look at each individual with a few exceptions like They fit the bill of what survivors going for these days. They don't stick out too much with a couple exceptions

maybe David being being like the biggest exception to that. But however it shook out, the groups just couldn't be more different. And coming off of 47, that's really helped me enjoy Survivor 48, how unique it's been. Now, I think with Survivor 48, I think it's been defined by the culture that was established throughout the season by the cast. I have to say it does remind me of modern Big Brother seasons, just how it plays out

and the dynamics at play and how people talk about strategy. Now, the obvious is that there was a steamroll like there was a big majority alliance that stuck together stuck together and the status quo was really not a bend. The other similarity is that, you know, a big brother majority alliance. You know, it's the power that it's able to leverage is that it wins all the challenges.. Now this is the same thing as Survivor 48, like the necklace was traded off between Joe and Kyle and Eva, right? And Shaheen, no, he grabbed a reward challenge, maybe not immunity. But anyway, and then also, they retained all the advantages throughout the season, this majority alliance. I found that to be super interesting, but I think what's maybe more

interesting is like reading kind of between the lines of the edit. I think something that maybe this majority doesn't get as much credit for is probably all the work that they did with the people on the outside. And this is something that Taron Armstrong will talk about a lot, like the specific tactics used by a big brother majority alliance. And that is that they take the outsiders, right? And through like individual relationships, they sort of build a world in which they're not as much on the outside as they are. And that prevents people from making a huge game shifting move for them to rally together and sort of topple the power structure.

And I think that as much as people have gotten on the case of players like Mitch and I don't know, Marion Star, right? It's frustrating on a week to week basis as a weekly viewer to not see them like make that sort of power shifting move. But I would give a lot of credit to Kyle and Joe and even all of them. Or I think it takes just as much strategy to like maintain sort of a power structure. And that reminds me of Big Brother.

Okay, so great points all around. If I may respectfully push back on that last point though, that do you feel like that that actually was happening in this season where I've pointed to that as something like when we watch Survivor Redemption Island, Boston Robb is working very hard making multiple alliances with all these different people and really sort of like selling the dream to people who aren't really going to the end. It felt like in this season, this was a little bit more of like, there was the, the strong five or four. And then ultimately it was like, okay, this is it. And everybody else, Chrissy, Cedric, ultimately Mary, once David goes star Mitch and to a lesser degree, Camilla, like,

I'm sorry. Sorry for you. you. Like, we're full. We're not taking any new members in the Alliance. I'm sorry. It's no hard feelings. You're lovely people, but you can't be in the final five. So I think where I would like, I think you have to, so what I've been doing is I feel like I've been reading between the lines of the edit a little bit

and piecing together exit interviews. And I think example I would use is is Mitch, right? So Mitch his portrayal was that He knew he had to make a move but the timing was never right in his eyes That final eight round wasn't good because he you know, he didn't trust star to you know Vote with him necessarily, but I think the sort of untold story piecing together is what did he believe? And I think what he believed was that he had an in with Kyle and Camilla and the three of them started on the tribe together. So I think he had a different view of the closeness between all the different sort of relationships. And I

think he was going into the final five thinking that he had the majority because i have been possibly selling him that bill of goods that you need to make a movie because we're gonna get the jump on joan eva we're gonna be like the seba at the final three now that is something that you know a lot of sort of big brother players who are not on the, the very core will, will believe, and then they get blindsided at the, you know, at the wrong time to send them out before the final. And so that's just something I feel like I have inferred from how the season came, like, like shook out because it is really shook, shook out because the shook it is really shook shook out. Yeah

Sure, I'm trying I'm trying to like combine it to the big brother Yeah, yeah, but sort of that's my take on it. And so I guess I'm just like Yeah That that what that really wasn't part of the show is I guess my So, okay, so with Surviv survivor 48 I have to say like my My prevailing sort of take on it is I think it was let down by the editing Generally speaking and I think that the editing took a step back from survivor 47. I could be very biased about survivor 47 But like I was always impressed

I could be very biased about survival 47, but like I was always impressed during the airing of my season of how they portrayed the storylines. I think they, they did a lot of things that they really knocked it out of the park. And just from my perspective, it was true life while being entertained. Yeah. You felt like it was an accurate depiction of what was actually happening there in survival 47. My opinion is that was very accurate and it really hit a lot of the beats that I was hopeful for coming home from Survivor 47 thinking it was a great season. And it was a great season for many reasons. I think one of them, this is something that Sam and I, whenever we talk about Survivor, he always brings this up, but I think he said this on

a podcast or two. It's like this, Survivor 47 had a ton of amazing story arcs and character arcs. And of course, I'm like one of the bigger examples of that on my season, where you could see characters like in the players from episode one to the finale, just ending up in very different spots and feeling very different ways. And I find that to be like a very compelling, sort of, that's just compelling storytelling straight up, right? And I think 47 had a lot of that. Now with 48, I think it had great characters and I think it had great moments.

But one of the things I would say about Survivor 48 is that it was like repetitive in a lot of ways, right? So like, I feel like a lot of the characters who went deep, they had these signature confessionals and then they would like say it every single episode. I think people picked up on that. You know what I mean? Like Kyle would always have a confessional every episode

talking about how he's got a relationship with Camilla and people don't know that. Eva sticks out in particular. I think Eva, you know, she never, throughout the whole season, she never had a confessional where she was kind of like worried about the vote. Her signature confessional was like, you know,

my alliance is staying tight and we have all the advantages and we're just going to pick them up. And in every episode she had that confessional. And there are many more examples on, on Survivor 48. And so like, as much as I think that they brought together a really compelling group of people, the arcs didn't like, there was not a delta, there was not a big shift in how they felt

and their standing in the game. And I think that's, for me, it just made for, like, non-optimal storytelling. But yeah, so I think the editing is very different. Now, I would say the person who had the most repetitive confessionals on Survivor 47, I think is me. So in the post-merge, so like, you know, I had a crazy story arc, right? But in the post-merge, I think that for like the few episodes leading up to Operation Italy, I think I had one confessional every episode where I'm like, oh my God, I'm doing

so great. And, you know, no people weren't seeing it. And I'm like running the game. I mean, while that was happening, I was like, yes, more, more of that, more of that. But I think objectively, it was kind of like, had that sort of repetitiveness to it. But I think what was great was that it was leading up to something. It was like leading episode to episode, people didn't know where it was leading, but it led up to Operation Italy, which from an editing standpoint, and they knocked that out of the freaking part. Right. So it was good that, you know, there was out of the freaking part. Right. So, it was good that, you know, there was like a build up to something grand. Now with 48,

I don't know if they had sort of that combination. I mean, I think that the final six round was like a good combination of what Kyle and Camille are able to accomplish together, but it didn't hit exactly the same. No, I don No, Operation Italy, it was not. Now, wait, Rob, I have to tell you, I have to tell you, I was hard on you in my exit interview, because you kept calling it Project Italy. But ever since, in a month since, whenever people talk to me about like Operation Italy, like every third person calls it Project Italy. So that's redemption for you. Like that is like a lot of people are calling it project Italy. That is just, that's not something I said it wrong. And now everybody, people are just, is it Mandela effect? Okay.

Is it actually no. So I did some, yeah. So I've seen that. Okay. I think it makes sense because so as long as we're not ops, no, we're definitely not ops. So I think when you're naming something, so a project usually has a code word. So like project Italy makes sense because Italy doesn't describe what you're doing. But when someone says operation something like operation, whatever, like for me, I was saying in the early part of survival 47, operations get out of gada. So it's like a project has a code word, operations typically don't have code words. So I think that sort of contributes to it.

The reason we call it operationally is, I mean, because the Italian job was taken. We were not allowed to say that. Somebody came up with that early on and we were not allowed to say that. But it reminded me of like, there's like military operations, like operation, whatever. So I stand by the naming of it, but, you know,

and I have theorized that we will see more operation Italy dupes in the future. I think that while they could not have happened on survivor 48, I do feel like that what they did, what you all came up with and then what the producers and the editors did with it, I think was so inspired. I think that we're going to see more caper type at least plans. What I think though is I think that we will also see a version of it where, okay, it's operation Italy, but what Sam doesn't know is we're actually blindsiding him. Like he thinks Operation Italy is on and then that somebody who you know is in on the operation is actually gonna get blindsided thinking that they're in on this big caper. I think there's validity to that. I think that first of all I

would just love that. If anyone wants to go out there and try to move and name it, I think that that would be amazing. I think the one thing, and I've said this before, but I think you're very much right because operationarily, I think the secret sauce behind it was that it was like kind of organically came about. And I don't think anyone forced that to happen. I just think it was like a confluence of aligned interests. And the end game is Robber 47 just happened to be like, we just happen to have as much fun with it as possible. And so I'm really happy that it came together the blind interest and the end game is rather 47 just happened to be like, we just happened to have as much fun with it as possible. And so I'm really happy that it came together the way that it, that it did. But, but the thing is, you know, people want to try it and fail. Like that's going to be really entertaining too. So we'll take that. You know, I think

you said this on our podcast, but 48 could have maybe used the operation. You know, I think I might've said that. Yeah. All right. So you made this comparison between Survivor 47 and Survivor 48 and whether it was a conscious decision or not that you feel like that the people who played Survivor 48 had one kind of vibe and the people who played Survivor 47 had a different kind of vibe. Are there any people that could have swapped casts without missing a beat? Oh my god, that's a fascinating question. And just like knowing sort of the inside, like there are some like misconnections like throughout the casting process of this past cycle. Like there are people who could have been on one season, someone who was going to be on another season. And it's just mind blowing to think about the butterfly effect that could have occurred. I think that at the top of my head, a lot of people who were in the pre-emerge of Survivor 48 would have thrived on Survivor 47. I guess one example is Thomas. I think that, I mean,

I think he was set up to do very well in this season as well, don't get me wrong, but I think he would definitely not have missed a beat. Because if we want to stop down and define the different vibes, I think people have categorized this, but I think Survivor 47 definitely had more of a super fan vibe, more of a people who wanted to, people say a strategist vibe. I do think that's very true. Whereas 48, the thing that kind of blew my mind about 48 is that they had this big run of very physical challenges. And I don't know if it compares that strongly to Survivor 47, but mine sort of thought that

there's this invisible concept with Survivor 48 where they really wanted to find big beefy people on purpose and have them run the most physical challenges possible. Because if you compare the physicality between Survivor 48 and Survivor 47, I do think that there's like a market like difference, right? So it's fascinating to think about all the what ifs and like how they split it because one change could totally have changed the season. But yeah, I think Thomas would have killed it on 47. Yeah. Thomas certainly I think would have been good on 47. I think a couple other folks, Bianca certainly, uh, you know, Stephanie also, uh, I think maybe fits in better on 47. I'm just, but I'm looking at the 47 pre-merge and I'm trying to think back that would they

have fit better on 48? Not John Lovett probably. John Lovett was probably fine. He could have. John Lovett could have. I don't know. You think John Lovett would have been in the Alliance with Kyle and Eva and Joe? So I guess by that logic, we just have to find someone who was very physically strong. TK would have yeah, TK. Well, the thing is, because listen, and I think people have made a lot of comments about this,

and this is like no shade or disrespect to anyone. I certainly had a very poor track record with the challenges, but people noted that Vula was not as stacked as the other two tribes on Survivor 48. And so I wonder what could have been like if TK was on Vula, for example, how different would that have gone? Because maybe he would have sort of upgraded their challenge prowess. Maybe there would not have been a, you know, Vula would not have been a sort of disaster

tribe, which is, I would say as a side note, I think one of the things that set up Survivor 47 very well was not having a disaster tribe because those just really changed the merge dynamics, whether or not there's like one tribe that's like completely decimated or not anyway. But yeah, you never know. The butterfly fight is like really insane. And truly one little change could make it, could have changed both sides of the brain. What's better than a well-marbled ribeye sizzling on the barbecue? A well-marbled ribeye sizzling on the barbecue that was carefully selected by an Instacart shopper and delivered to your door.

A well-marbled ribeye you ordered without even leaving the kiddie pool. Whatever groceries your summer calls for, Instacart has you covered. You said something earlier about a lot of people feel like that all of the new era seasons are very cookie cutter and samey same. Could you speak a little bit more to the differences you see in when you look back at the new era seasons? That's an amazing question. So from a casting standpoint, from whatever standpoint you feel like that they are very different. So I think that nothing crazy has happened to change casting and how they cast seasons. It has changed over time and they've instituted some real changes like the 50% BIPOC sort of mandate that happened in their new era. But I really think, and this goes back to basically,

this is something that people like have said a lot, right? But I think think, and this goes back to basically, this is something that people have said a lot, right? But I think the reason that the new era gets built is being very samey-same is really, there's just a lack of anything different. There's a lack of theme. Like, I know that production struggled toward the end of the 30s to keep coming up with compelling themes to make seasons stand out,

but they really benefited from having that just from a sort of memorability standpoint. And it really helped differentiate season to season to season. Whereas in the new era, you know, they also they do they do some things that that really don't help us. Right. So obviously every season just has a number. Right.

But also they do this thing that kind of drives me nuts. Every fall season has to be red, blue, yellow, and every spring season has to be orange, green, purple. Why do you think they do that? I don't know why they do that. It's like, what are the new buffs? What do we need? Like, uh, okay, just get red, red, blue, yellow, green, orange and purple.

I don't know why that frustrates me so much, but it kind of does because if, even if things changed a little bit like that, you can at least like have a different sort of visual season by season if they were just like a little bit more unique with it. And so, um, they do these little detail things that really make you sort of make these seasons blur together unless you're a big super fan. Um, And then, you know, I think from a production and design standpoint, they've really conceptualized the new era as its own particular thing,

with its own particular sort of obviously phase of Survivor. And so what, how they viewed it is that they wanted to give these changes that they instituted at the, starting with Survivor 41, they wanted to give them room to breathe. They didn't want to like deviate from them too quickly something really didn't work they would take it out but like three tribes you know earn everything that you know earn your supplies no rice merge at or II you know all these different things beware advantage what

they how they look at it is, okay, we want these things to stop being twists and start being regular mechanisms so that players can see how they work, see what works, what doesn't, and then new players can come in with a fresh perspective and innovate on that. And I think this is something that Jeff has said in recent interviews, like I think something that he lauds is Rachel's use of shot in the dark, which was very, very good, right? And I think that was a payoff of things that they've set in motion since the start of the new era where, okay, we want these things to be given a chance and new players to sort of build on it so that they can pay off. And we don't to like, we don't want to, you know, pull out

of this too early. And I think from that standpoint, I think they, it kind of, it kind of did pay off for them because, and that is something that I appreciate. Like I don't love when things are sprung on players. And you know, again, like whether it's survivor, whether it's big brother, because if the unexpected happens, people will just play tight. But if these things like the, like shot in the dark and be where advantage become more normalized, then people have time to use their imagination and sort of build on that. And so that is why I think that the format has stayed the same throughout the entirety from 41 to 49. Um, I think

there, there are some benefits to that because people have done really cool things. And, you know, a lot of things have paid off. Like, you know, they were probably waiting for a shot in the dark to pay off in a meaningful way. And it has happened. But as a downside, because they've given all they've given this format so many seasons of all new players. I think history will view it as a conglomerate clump of seasons with a couple of exceptions. And that's why I love the run of 45, 46, 47, and 48 does benefit from like, they're all very different.

They're all very different. And so that does help differentiate them somewhat, even though from a design standpoint, I think they are pretty repetitive. Do you feel like there's something the show could be doing to make them feel more different, whether it's some kind of idea of a theme or sure, we're going to keep the shot in the dark and all these things that we're building upon. But maybe, you know, we have some other exile islands type of like, okay, here's the new wrinkle for this season. Well, the one thing that they do and they hang their head on is the art, like the art

design right is different and the logo and stuff. But as you like, you're very well documented, like the number one thing they do is change the travel council set. And so they do spend a lot of effort on that. And so for someone like me, they do spend a lot of effort on it. And I would say that I will, I will die on this Hill that you get, get me a hundred survivor fans that are maybe this season they can identify, get a line up a hundred survivor fans and let's show them the set of the different tribal councils. See any of them can pinpoint like what's what season is this? Do you, do you know, do you know anything? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I know. I'm sure it's awesome when you're there, Andy.

It is awesome when you're there. It is awesome when you're there. It doesn't read on television as being any different from any other season. I totally get that because it's like, Tribal Council, the running theme is that it's dimly lit and it's dark. So I think it does help me.

I do notice the differences and that does help me differentiate it. Like even, even these like basic, like aesthetic things, like it, it goes somewhat far for me. Um, but I think so going back to big brother, big brother, you know, there's so much to criticize about big brother. We could spend, let's, let's have another four hour podcast talking about what they do wrong, but I don't think that they're ever accused of having samey same cookie cutter seasons. I think that there's a very distinct vibe from each season, even though they number them. They don't have like, like titles, not every big brother, but they do do a little bit more with the production design and like

the overall theme. So like this last year we had, of course, Ainsley and don't ask me what big brother 25 was. I can't recall the multiverse, the multiverse, what did they do with the multiverse? This, they had the humiliverse. They had the superhero verse, whatever that was. I remember that Cory went to like the upside down. Yeah, the scary verse. The scary verse, yeah. So that was silly.

And Big Brother is very, very silly and unserious in many ways, but I think that does help Big Brother because the aesthetic and the theme is so differentiated and it's not just at a tribal council. Like every scene, every shot in Big Brother is a very brightly lit shot of the room in the house. And so these are not game design. These are sort of, I know that this is more surface level, but I do think from when you're

talking about a production or like a TV production, that these simple things can really help on a season to season basis keep it just a little bit fresh and like help differentiate them so survivors a bit of a tricky situation because they you know they only have one set you know which is tribal council the rest of the of the show is on these beaches that they keep reusing and so those are completely the same so I'm I think that was kind of the biggest adjustment for me watching Survivor 48. I had a great time watching Survivor 48, but it kind of mess like mess with my head, like seeing the two of those beaches, I spent so much time on. I'm like, I know that log,

like I know that exact log that they're sitting on. And so I mean, that, that like sort of leads into a big criticism people have is that it's always in Fiji, right? So that would be I get that. That's like a financial thing. Yeah, it just makes sense. But it just feels like it's almost like in the way that like professional wrestling is like just always on you just tune in and it never it never ends, it never goes away. I feel like that that's what they're sort of going for, of like, hey, listen, what do you want? It's a new survivor, just show up,

don't worry about it, okay? Yeah, and their hope, and I think this is semi-true, but I think their hope is that, like when these seasons come and go, that they're gonna be remembered by their players, you know, the standout players on each season. And that is how the fans, like when I talk come and go, that they're gonna be remembered by their players, you know, the standout players on each season. And that is how the fans, like when I talk with fans now, that is how they differentiate newer seasons, you know,

when some, because people, when people don't have encyclopedic knowledge of who's on what season, they're like, oh, what was that? It's like, oh, that was- The one with this person. Q and Kenzie and Charlie and stuff. The one with Andy. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But no, someone asked me, yeah, someone asked me like, oh, what season are you on? Are you with D and awesome? Like, I was with Rachel and Genevieve and Jeannie and they're like, oh, okay. Yeah. So like, once you have that, like, association with the players, because we are the only difference, you know, from season to season. So I mean, yeah, I think, though, that I think you were talking about this with Franny, I believe like season 50 is going to come and then it's going to be its own thing.

It's going to be a big celebration, but then there's going to be seasons after that because I think survivors in a really healthy place. I think survivor and Jeff, they're, they're ready to go at least through season 60, but the fifties, they just have to be different than the new era, which is funny that it's called that because as time goes on, it's like, it's really not the new era anymore. But the 40s is its own thing and had its own sort of stamp on survivor history. The 50s, they have to go back to the drawing board and think about what that's going to look like because it just can't be the same thing.

And I'm excited about that because production, like I think they have a reputation for being stubborn, like not listening to feedback and sticking to their guns. But I think they know that 51 can't just be what 49 is. And so I'm excited for what they might, what they might change. Do you know that? Do I know what that it's not going to be the same? Do you know that they know that 51 can't be the same as what 49 is? Do I know that for a fact? No, I do not know. Are you doing wishful thinking? I'm maybe manifesting. Manifesting. Yeah, because at a certain point, here's what I know about them.

Here's what I do know about them. Here's what I do know about them. They're very, very passionate. They're super fit, passionate. They really, really, they really care about Survivor. They are the opposite of being checked out. And I, so I think, and they pride themselves, the opposite of big brother, and they pride themselves on being creative and being creators and they create this thing and they take so much pride in that. And I think if you're someone like that, you implement changes that you're excited about and if the fans don't respond well to that, you get very, you're, you're inclined to be very defensive and you're inclined to defend these things that you've come up with

and you're going to stick to them up to a certain point. Because if you are a passionate creator, you're not just going to want to run the same thing over and over again. There's going to become a point in time where they feel like they want to, uh, you know, come up with new ideas and make changes, but it's going to be on their own time. Like if they were listening to the fans, they would have gotten rid of a lot of things by surviving 43 or 44 and they did it, they stuck to their guns. they would have gotten rid of a lot of things by surviving 43 or 44 and they did it. They stuck to their guns. But I think that they will look at the fifties as it's a newer era.

It's like the post new era. Yeah. Do you have any ideas that you would like to see for survivor in the fifties? I guess I would like to see that's a great question. I would love to see two tribes like, what the heck, Like, why is it three tribes? So I think what's amazing, what would be amazing, what would be ideal is if a player is cast and they go out there and they don't know what to expect in terms of how many people they're gonna play with, who they're gonna play with.

So I was cast on Survivor 47. I had a very, very, very strong level of confidence that I was gonna be on a season with three tribes of six. So was going to play with five other players. And I came up with a whole checklist of different strategies that is like particular to a small tribe. Did those all come to be? No, no. But like, you know, like I, but I had a confidence going, I could expect the expected, not expect the unexpected. So the best thing for them to do is mix it up. And that feeds into like an answer to that previous question Or how could they make try seasons distinct?

It's like you mix it up you variety like this season was two tribes with the next one's three jobs You don't know what it's gonna be. So I think that's a big change. I want to see It's why I was the last yes the last two tribes that we had It's wild. The last two tribes that we had was in winners at war. We haven't had them in any version, not even starting at three. Okay. Now we swapped to two one season. We've never had two tribes at any point since season 40. Yeah. Basic variety and configuration could just go a really long way, I think. And I think it's good to have. So one benefit of having two tribes is that the tribe sizes will be bigger, right, generally.

So it could be upwards of like eight people to 10 people. I think that's really good. So in the premier of Survivor 47, I did this math equation, right? So what it was was I was calculating the amount of individual relationships that could exist on a tribe of six. So that's six choose two, which is 15, right? So, but the thing is, if you increase like the amount of people on a given tribe, but that increases like nonlinearly, like it just, it gets a lot bigger. And so if it's a tribe of 10, the amount of individual relationships is 10 times nine divided by two, which is 45. Wow. Which is, which is a lot more, it's a lot more,

it's a lot richer, it's a lot more complex. It's like a lot more things that can happen. And I think that's great. I think that's great for it to be sort of more densely connected like that, because, you know, if you're in a small small tribe and these five people just aren't your vibe, you're really out of options. But if you're on a tribe of 10, and the same, you know, like six people don't like you, you still have an out because there's going to be a much more variety of personalities. And if you just get like one ally, one person wants to play with you can make a world of a difference in terms of your game and just how exciting the tribe dynamics are. So that's something I would really look forward to, like if they start mixing it up. Um, and then since I'm, since I'm on here, so I don't hate many of the new

RR changes. I think I've kind of see the perspective of letting things play out. Do you wear advantage in the shot in the dark? I like the shot in the dark. There's, there's one thing, there's one thing I just, they need to get rid of. They just need to get rid of the. Mergetory. I hate merge. Sorry. So much.

Andy, you're preaching to the choir. I know I'm preaching to the choir, but every season when merge, it comes along. I, it just drives me insane. Obviously from like, there's like game reasons why it drives me nuts, but I think from like a branding re, branding standpoint, it's just like the worst thing, worst change they've ever made.

Because the merge for 40 seasons prior was the most organic, amazing landmark episode in the middle of their season. People like fans would just like get go insane, like super excited for the merge episode. And very often that would lead to a sort of pivotal boat where lines are drawn in the sand that really sets the tempo for the rest of the season. And they took something so organic and amazing in the middle of the season and they've really diluted it. And it like, first of all, and I'm both as a fan and when I was out there, number one,

like conceptually it really makes no sense because what, like if you take three things and combine them into one, what is that? That's a merge, that's a merge no matter how you like, wanna say it arbitrarily. But do you have above? But then, and so. Did you earn that or are you looking for a freebie?

You know like an episode six, every new artist season, when you get the thing and you're like, okay, we've all, you know, you're all going to the same beach. Yeah. Like we're going crazy, but we really shouldn't because we haven't made the merge yet. And so like, there's like an instinct of like, well, let's not celebrate yet. Like this would be really exciting, but no, we can't let this be exciting.

And the fans feel the same way because the fans wanted to be the merge because before the new era, you know, we're waiting for that big Avengers sort of crossover of all the personalities that we've, you know, become invested with in the pre-merge. And then there's this one glorious moment where they're all on the same beach and they all have a new buff and they're all getting to know each other and it's chaotic and it's amazing in the best way. And for whatever reason, they've choked that in the new era.

And so you're on the same beach, but you don't have a buff and you're like, nope, we didn't make the merge yet. And secondly, we don't even know what to call it. We don't even call it, we call it Mergetorious Fans, but that's not what what to call it. We don't even call it, we call it Mergetorious Fans, but that's not what the show calls it. They don't call it Mergetribe. It's wild.

And so when it was implemented, the reason is because we have to earn everything, right? Yeah, earn everything, yeah. So, okay, but how do you earn the merge in the merger? You either win a challenge or you survive with that is survival. So like everyone has already earned that by making it to a certain stage of the game. Like that is how you would, you know, that was how you would earn the

merge. But it's just like this arbitrary, uh, sort of delay of calling it, you know, the next phase of the game merge, right? We don't even know what to call it. And so it's just, just from a, just from a conceptual branding standpoint, I just, yeah, it drives me. It seems like that it was an idea that they, that they had, that they really got invested in that they've kind of pivoted away from, but they don't want to necessarily give up the idea because it's like, you know, that you have to save face like, but then the next part of it, Andy, you're, you're

just getting started. Cause it's like, all right, everybody, here's your buffs. You're merged. Okay. So, all right. Next step, make two groups. We're going to have two groups. You're going to go into two different tribal councils today. Merge tribe. There are a lot of, um, like, uh, analysts and podcasters who, who definitely, um, just like, well, I, I lost my train of thought, but no, I really don't. I don't like how. Oh yeah, here's what I was going to say. The merge used to be really the best part of this other season. It really was like the most exciting and it really set the tempo and there were like important votes that were

happening. And I think a lot of people have commented and they're right that in a new era it is definitely the worst part of every season. Like definitely the merge-atory episode and then the split part. Um, it it it takes it it stops all the momentum I'll say that you know you guys You know coming out of that had an exciting vote So with survivor 47 we all got on the same beach and the merge story vote was Rome which was I'll got on the same beach and the merge story boat was Rome which was entertaining in its own right as far as especially how they told the story but it was a slam dunk sure basic consensus vote right um and then survive 47 had actually a wrinkle unique to the

new era where we didn't vote out two people on the same night um we split up into two different you know teams um but the the team that lasted the longest would just get immunity, and only one side would have to go to travel council. And that resulted in an exciting moment just because of the advantages at play, and Rachel got like player safety without power. So that was, it's one thing.

But still, even in Survivor 47, I think the vote that like set the tempo for the rest of the game that would be typically classified as the merge vote was the one after that, which was the Sierra vote. Yeah. And so that was a good vote. There's a lot of strategy involved with that, a lot to unpack.

But it didn't happen. That wasn't the merge vote, whereas I just think that they've overbaked this so much. So my number one request, I don't know. I don't know if production listens to these podcasts production. I'm on your side. Like I don't, you're great. You come up with so many amazing ideas. I defend you all the time. Just please get rid of your story. Please. This is my one request. Like survivor 51,

I want them to drop their buffs and just get a new one and it just be the merge. But that's my my that's my rant Now Andy that was not something that was on the ballot for Survivor 50 in the hands of the fans that yeah Did you have any spicy takes on the votes? the survivors 50 votes I think my main impression was that the things that were actually up for the vote, they were very sort of clever about what they were putting up for a vote

because not too many of those things are what's very hotly contested by the fan base or things that like we would love to have a say on. I think the one exception of course is the fire making challenge. So I guess my hottest take is that I could take her to leave the firemaking challenge. I don't think it's like a blade survivor. I think it's so here's what I like about the firemaking, the, like the final four firemaking challenge is that again, this is kind of what I said earlier, but at a certain point it stops being a twist and now it's just a mechanic in the game. I hated it.

And I was out as outraged as Josh Wiggler when it was a twist on Triple H and it was like sprung on everybody. I felt that to be kind of unfair, but it's, you know, it's I don't remember if that was one of the things that Josh Wiggler was really furious about. I think someone was really, Adam Klein was. I think it was Adam Klein. All right. I don't remember a lot of people were like, look, maybe, maybe he was okay. So it could be, so I don't know.

I remember someone coming onto the podcast after survivor 35, they had a full on crash out and you know how much I, I, you know, I have a good crash at every no, but they hated the fire making challenge. And I kind of, I felt that at four 35, but from 36 to now, uh, I'm ambivalent about her, but I'm apathetic about it. Um, I could go either way because what I do like about it is that it's very, very known. And I think that influences people's strategy. So let's talk about survival 48. I think. I think that Kyle and Camilla used it really to their advantage in a certain way in this respect, where they knew that they were a duo.

They knew that they were working tightly together and they were doing things together. They were building a sort of shared resume. They were doing things together that they could speak on and have a winning final travel counsel, especially next to Joe and Eva. So they built a clear winning path for one of them. But the only, what could go wrong is if they take a shot

at each other too soon, that happens a lot, you know, like, I don't know, people argue that Jesse went for Cody too soon because one of them was definitely on track to win. You know what I mean? So that could go wrong if they really do have this shared idea that one of them deserves to win. But with that, if there's just a vote, then there's just a natural dilemma where, okay, you either have to sit next to each other and one of you really loses out by getting maybe demolished by the other at tribal council, or you have to find the right time to take a snipe at the other one.

So that's very interesting. I mean, so that's actually argument why you should not have the fire making challenge. But what I was impressed by was that Kyle and Camilla used it to their advantage where it's really a good compromise to have them still work together deep into the game. Fire making wasn't there, then they would have to take a shot through a blind side and a vote. And then that becomes this game of chicken where one of them could have pulled the trigger too early. But they were both very much on the same page that if they get to four,

fire is going to happen. And one of them is going to get the final travel counsel. And one of them is going to win the game. And I think having that sort of middle ground or sort of compromise something that two allies can rationalize about, and this is when this is like, then we're gonna like break off, this is where one of us is gonna eliminate it and one of us is gonna have a good chance to win. I think that is a good enough deal for both of them

to have actual mutual interest all the way through final four. And I like that they utilize that to that extent. So for me, it could either be there or not be there. The other side of the token is that, for example, Australian Survivor still hasn't voted the final four and that is not as cut and dry as you may believe. Some really interesting things could happen if four people are voting.

But so I guess that's my spicy take is that I don't hate that so much. I don't know if you voted or not. Andy, did you vote for a lot of twists? So is this the question where there's dynamic power or power? I remember if that was about twists or that was about advantages. Okay. I did not. I not vote. I just looked at it. Maybe I just didn't feel the power as a voter that I could have. Maybe that is democracy in action. Everyone gets to say, maybe I didn't take enough advantage of that. I did not vote. I think that when it comes to twists, I think a middle ground is perfect. I don't know what it like was survivor design. Like I think that like they probably found perfect sweet spot in the thirties. I think, I think like or maybe early thirties when we're talking about Cambodia, Koran, um, and millennials

were shit acts. So now game changers has the advantage. Get it. So maybe they had a mistake of putting in too many idols, which they really don't anymore. They really, I mean, this was remarkably sparse of idols. I had like 47, how many idols had we seen for us? We had all the idols. Yeah. So here's how it works in the new era. So there's going to be a beware advantage planted on each of the three tribes. Yes. If someone finds it and it gets an idol, but then plays it or whatever, like it's flushed, there's going to be a new beware advantage planted on that beach. Um, but it's going to be easier to accomplish, I think generally speaking. Um, but then you get some merge at Tori and I don't, they do not plant a fourth idol in

the jungle of the merge tribe. Uh, I, so in 47, a sort of merge idol was entered into the game through the auction. Yes. And Rachel found that for the prize. Was there a merge idol in 48? There was a idol up for grabs when Eva went on her singular journey and she could have gambled.

That was knowledge is power. Yeah, it went, no, no, no, no. Her first one, her first one, her secret night escapade. Oh, that was it went no no no no her first one her first one her secret night escapade oh that was it it was she uh yes okay she arrived there with an extra boat she could have kept going so that was the that was the merge idol so they're not like idols so much i think that they actually listen to the fans when people were complaining about having too many idols in the game.

I don't really hate this decision so much. I think it's possible that they've over-corrected. But I guess what I was saying was, by the time we get to game changers, they have made a mistake of pumping in too many advantages, which there reaches a sort of critical mass where it becomes kind of, sort of, it dominates the game too much. Um, and so I think in the, in the, in the new era, or maybe the later, the latter new era, they've been much more

restrained with how many items are going to put into the game. I, I'm not going to complain about that. I think that's cool. Could they add one more? Could they like, you know, because as they have it right now, people go into the merge tribe of the new era season and they do look, they just go look in the jungle. But based off of recent precedent, there's nothing there. And maybe if there was one idol there that could, that could, that could help a little bit. I guess what I would think would be probably the better way to go. Okay. So have three in the pre merge and then sort of like, okay, we have, we have a running tally on how many are in the game. But if we get down to now there's just one in the post merge. I feel

like that there should be two up until I'll say the final six. Like if like, let's say like one of the two idols gets played at seven, we have an idol hidden for six and five. Yeah. Two idols in the post merge, I think in modern survivor feels fine to me. One seems a little, a little tight. I completely agree. I think what you said is completely is absolutely ideal.

But I think it's like worth noting that they're a lot closer to having the proper amount of advantages than they used to be. Even now I'm thinking like 43 there's like too much remember like I wouldn't have this confessional during merge a torii where he's like counting all the known advantages and like way too much. They've corrected that. And so I think if you add one more idol in the jungle at the merge, then then that's perfect. Yeah. How about advantages? Are we having too many advantages? They kind of didn't make it too far. Listen, I don't know. It's hard to talk about that with 48. I think there's one thing that

Jeff said that was funny at the after show where he was just like just like every season of Survivor You know advantages played a really big role in this season and I listen I'm like that is truly false That's completely inaccurate like advantages simply did not play a big part of the season people had them and Thomas may have gotten voted out because I had one Yeah, and okay And to be fair, the winner had a successful idle play. So I'll give it that, which is actually pretty rare these days.

Rachel and Kyle both did it, but not many people before that recently, but this was not a season of idle play at that. Yeah. But this was not a season of people whipping out their advantages and changing the game of their advantages. And so that's another thing that's kind of unique and compelling about Survivor 48. Survivor 47 was similar-ish. I mean, again, Rachel had a very dazzling idle play to knock me out. It was like one of her winning votes, right? But it was not all over the place. And I think that you just go back to recent survivor history, and I think there are too many advantages at play. So this is ultimately better. Now with season 50, I don't know, because I don't know what the fans are going to vote for.

Because first of all, those ballots were very leading in certain directions, right? I think a lot of people have noticed that. But I think just like basic voting psychology, if you don't hate it, then you're just going to kind of vote yes, I think, unless you feel very strongly that something should be gone. Like a good example of that is a tribe swap. So one of the things on a ballot is like, should they swap tribe? People are split on that. People don't feel incredibly strongly that there should be a swap every season or that there should never be a Slop, it's just kind of this one whatever But if you put it up for a ballot people are just gonna I think they're gonna like have a slight bias

They're just putting it in there just to vote. Yes instead of no. Um, and so I have a if you if you were to like ask me like all the different questions I I think I could like put in a good prediction of what, I think a lot of them are not that hard to predict how the vote's gonna go. Yes, and I think that the people asking the question, I think probably already know the answer that the audience is gonna come back with

on most of these things. Yeah, but well, so- Any great lawyer doesn't ask a question they don't already know the answer to. So I agree that that's how they set it up. I don't know if they are like have their finger on the pulse as much as the super fans. Like, because I think one thing that's telling is I don't know if they really asked the right questions to create compelling, interesting decisions with fans because one

of the things that was up for vote is should there be idols or no idols now? That was the big one. I have a very strong opinion that there's a slam dunk, but there will be idols, right? But I think that someone so let's take Jeff, right? So there are certain criticisms that he hears a lot, and I don't know if they get taken in a certain way over time and become straw men, but when people say that there are too many advantages or they get confused with the beware advantage and the shotgun guard, blah, blah, blah, blah, one thing he says is like, oh, so you want no idols, you want

no idols then. Like you want back. It's a straw man. Yeah. It's a straw man. People say it from time to time, but I don't think that's a consensus opinion that idols have ruined Survivor. It's like one of the best implementations they've ever had. And people love the idols. But so it's kind of telling that they even put it

up for a vote because obviously most people are going to say yes. Yeah. Okay. Andy, the people have been very patient and they've waited a long time. For your entire survivor career, we have always referred to you lovingly as Baby Andy. And there's always been a question about, what is the lore behind Baby Andy? Can somebody explain it to me? And you have resisted the urge to just spill it.

Do you want to take people on that journey? I definitely think it's time to do the baby Andy lore drop. I would have thought it would have come to light at some point during Survivor 47, but Survivor 47 is coming gone. A whole other season is coming. We had too much other stuff to talk about. Too many pressing other news items. We have not come back to address the Baby Andy mystery.

I'm very happy to go through it today. Leave no mystery left, which is good because I think at the end of the day, only I really know the full sort of journey of Baby Andy. I thought I know it, but maybe the way Andy's talking, maybe I don't know the whole story. I of baby and I thought I know but maybe the way Andy's talking maybe I don't know the whole story. I'm going to get very detail oriented. I'm going to go in the weeds because some people will get a nickname just like that.

It's very simple. I think this one had a lot of twisted terms and it ended up just with me having a nickname was baby and so here's the story. So I became I first became a patron of Rob's podcast in 2019. I was a big super fan for years before that, but I found Rob's podcast. No, I found Rob's podcast during Ghost Island, but then I was listening for a bit. I finally became a patron in 2019.

The season that was airing was Island of the Idols. Super, everyone's super excited for Island of the Idols. Yeah, we have the statues. There's a lot of hype because winners of war is giving me around the corner everything like that I finally, you know bit the bullet and spent five dollars or ten dollars to become an archipy patron and I think in my opinion I came in hot because Truly and most people know that one of the very very coolest and like most special parts of Rob's podcast and being a patron is that if you are a patron you can call in and you can talk to Rob's sister

Nino who's a survivor legend and Such a big podcaster and just by being a fan and being a patron You could actually call him up and he spends time every week to talk to Survivor fans and I can't think of any other community that has that much access to the creator. I thought that was really, really cool. And so as much as I was very nervous to call in, when I first became a patron, I called in during Island of the Idols.

We had a really fun conversation. I talked about how I know every tribe name in Survivor history, which is still true. And so I- Which is not my strong suit. no, we'll get to that. Yeah. Very positive experience. And then I started calling in a lot. I started, you know, cause once you get a taste, I think you've experienced this a lot. You know, someone, you know, comes in with an energetic call. You start seeing them.

And look, I love that also, you know, to me, I feel like, uh like that the callers, especially the people that are like the colorful callers who call in, like, uh, it makes me so happy. And it's like, for me, this is like, you know, I'm watching reality TV of like, well, look at, look at these interesting people out here in the world that are calling in and they're all like hilarious and interesting. Clearly a reality television hotbed. You got me? Yeah. Kevin Jacobs called her. The list goes on. The list goes on.

Sure. So yes. So I'm coming in hot as a patron. I'm doing all these calls and, but you say one little comment at the end of like my third or fourth call, you said, Hey, this guy, Andy, I think he needs a nickname. You said that. Um, I think it's probably because my last name is hard for some people to pronounce. Like that could be it. I don't know. But you like this, this, this, this Andy guy, this new patron, like he needs a nickname. And

I listened to it and I took that in. Um, then what happened next? What happened next was that I participated in the Robin Akiva hot takeoff. Number one. This is something that, you know, if you don't know, no Robin, even need a podcast, really, really fun. A bunch of miscellaneous random ideas. We just watched all the Mission Impossible movies on three X. Yes. So I submitted my hot takes. I had one hot take in particular that I had felt for a while and to this very day I stand by this hot take. And the hot take that I really truly believe in is my number one platform is that we should

normalize adult diapers. Now that sounds pretty out there. I will say off the bat that Stephen Fishback has praised me multiple times for having the same exact idea. So, I'm in very good company. Oh, wow. But the thing about normalizing adult diapers. back has praised me multiple times for having the same exact idea. So I'm in very good company. But the thing about normalizing adult life, first of all, if you don't agree, it's kind of ableist. I'm just going to say it off the bat. But I think that as a society, I don't

think that we have solved the problem of like a lack of access to public restrooms when we need it. I think there's a lot of shame involved with having certain conditions or whatever. It's hard to use the bathroom on your own time without the shame involved. And so, myself, I'm not afflicted per se. I do have a very small bladder, so this influences my beliefs. But I think that the underwear that we wear as adults has, on purpose, has no absorbent capabilities whatsoever. On purpose, it doesn't help you out in a sticky situation. Sorry, no puns.

But when you're out and about, especially me, I live in New York City, there's a hostile lack of access to public restrooms. And so I think that it stands to reason that we should just have this normalized and like be an accepted part of society. I would call it, you know, phase one, just underwear that can absorb liquid and we'll go from that. Yeah. Okay. If you wanted to do this, who's stopping you? Are you afraid that you feel like that maybe people will be able to detect? Is it Andy like I looks like that maybe That there's like a puffiness that do you think that he's where like are you worried about the judgment? I?

Think you bring up a great point that I should be the change that I want to see in the world Can't you just start doing it? You got me thinking I'm like, oh maybe I should like just just in case, like the podcast is going good. I could be a leader in this space and start doing it myself. You are absolutely right. And thank you for holding me accountable. But I think that what I would call for is just awareness of like,

why are we shaming people who need them? You know what I mean? And if we're shaming people that we need, we need them. Why would we shame people who it would make their life better or make or more convenient? And so, you know, I, and I think if we were able to do a sort of sea change or normalize this as a society, then we could develop, you know, better, more convenient, more efficient, affordable, you know, fashion technology that can, that can help us out. Anyway, Speaker 3rd-5 I'm nervous though. Like, what if it doesn't like, okay, you're really like,

you know, crossing your fingers and like, okay, I'm in the hands of science right now. Like this, hope this, hope this works. But if you're in a desperate situation in public, there is no access. You're already in desperate situations. I guess simply you have no recourse. You have no last resort. And so that is my opinion. I stand by it to this day. Anyway, that was my primary hot take. Did not have a good take. You would think that this is the Mandela effect. It did not go far. I did not even make it into the bracket. I did not make it into the bracket at all. In fact, I was only mentioned on that podcast as a dishonorable mention. Oh! As it takes so egregious and ridiculous that Kirsten had to call it out.

Yeah. And so that's the only airtime that got on Robin and Keaton, Robin and Keaton podcast itself. But then something very fortuitous happened a week later. Kirsten McInnis, the very arbiter of the hot takeoff was going to be on Twitch, but she did not want to participate in the quiz. So Jordan Kalish had to find a pinch quizzer. I met him at the Island of the Idols RGP event. I was tapped to go in for Kirsten McInnis. Yes. I remember that night. Island of the Idols. No, it all's very fun podcast. But if you, if you want like, you know, a reference to this, this is the survivor Island of the

Idols episode seven, wiggle room plus twish. This is the episode. So while you and Kirsten and Jordan are recapping this episode, not normally a part of wiggle room that I think it's there was no exit interview that week. Right. Jack Nick thing was the boot. I don't know if he had an exit or not, but that was the format. And so while the three of you are riffing, I'm not on the podcast yet. The three of you are riffing about a quote that Boston Rob had on the episode He and Sandra were talking about the players and Sandra was like, you know Rob I'm gonna make a bet that a woman's gonna win the season and Boston Rob goes

You know, I was born at night, but not last night, right? Yeah, so and the way the three of you the three of you were making a meal of that You love that quote you're riffing about it and you started making all these jokes about people being babies because they were born last night. Yeah. And then right after I come on the podcast, we play, we compete in Twitch together. I win. Yes. Because the tiebreaker was name tribe, you know, identify tribe names and you gave Jordan a lot of crap as you tend to do,

which is I, you know, identify tribe names. And you gave Jordan a lot of crap as you tend to do, which is, I, you know, that's fair. Like that's pretty wild. Pretty wild that that was the tiebreaker. But I did win and I, it's a point of prize. I got a Slumdog millionaire for you. It's a point of pride that I'm the only person to win Twitch and then go on Survivor. You know, I think usually it's a point of pride that I'm the only person to win Twitch and then go on survivor. You know, I think usually it's like the inverse of that.

So I win and I'm like, like talking with Kirsten and I'm like, I'm Kirsten. We made a great team, even though you snubbed my hot takes. And then Kirsten is like, Oh, I'm sorry. And I'm like, well, I had the one about adult diapers and then you all just, um, you know, Jordan Kalish could not stop laughing. Yes. He went in full bait Blake mode. Yeah.

Oh my God. No, it's history. And we were dissecting my adult diaper hot take, which I stand by to this day. And again, you go to the end of this podcast, you're going to listen to the whole exchange. And at the very end, at the very end, Kirsten goes, maybe you are just a baby. Oh, Andy, you're just a baby. So she says that.

So, and then in the following week or two, you wanted to call me adult diber Andy. And I'm like, that's just too on the nose. That's just not good. So baby Andy came shortly thereafter. And that is the history of baby Andy. Wow. It was a very, it was very much a walk through all of the various RHEP corners, many podcasts. All the places you got.

Yeah, a really good snapshot of RHEP in 2019. So there you go. That's the story. Do you think if Asia got to the merge and you got to a point where you were interacting with Asia in the game, would you have said, uh, is, is there a universe where she calls you baby Andy or she's going to downplay any of this stuff? I want to give you an exclusive. This is another thing for people to go to.

If you want to go to the RHCP archive, this is, we're going to fast forward to survivor 41 Q and a episode number. I don't remember, but it's the double split tribal. So first. Nassir goes and then Evie goes and Asia is your cohost on the survivor Q and a, and I am a caller. So we have a whole exchange of two future survivor 47 contestants talking with Rob about

Survivor 41. We also start talking about Dallas Cowboys and the Buffalo Bells. And it was a whole moment and a whole exchange between myself and Asia years before we were on Survivor together. Yeah. That's like one of those lost flashbacks. Yeah. It is like an encounter like that. So very, very cool. And

gutted to this day that it didn't work out for us to actually have interactions on the island of Spartan 47. Would you have liked that though if like you were then like, like known like your survivor name became baby Andy, like they called you that on the show. Oh, okay. Um, no, I love baby. And I, I embrace baby Andy as a niche, sort of patron. I'm gonna go so far as to say that I'm gonna from here on out, here on out, you are only allowed to call me baby Andy if you are a patron. If you are a podcast patron, you have to subscribe. And then you have the complete right to call me baby Andy. But if you just heard it in your grapevine or whatever, you simply cannot

call me that. So I am happy that I got to go on Survivor. And to most people, I am simply Andy. But given that, the baby Andy, the lore is exactly as big as it needs to be. And everyone is called. It's like an endearing family name. Like, uh, like my family calls me Robbie. Nobody calls me that outside of like the inner circle. This is sort of the opposite direction, but my whole family calls me Andrew. Oh, I'm Andrew. It's in my family. Why so formal?

But that's just what it was like. That's the name that my, that my mother gave me. But as soon as I entered school, like my friends always call me Andy. So I definitely am Andy. Like I feel very, very confidently self identifies Andy, but that is my family name. So it's funny, you know, different things come about. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I feel like that that's a little bit maybe we like with my kids, you know, Dominic and Anthony and Nicole will be like very much like no, you're Dominic, you're Anthony. But then like Dominic says like, yeah, when I go to school, the other kids call me Dom. Like the other kids want to be more informal. Okay, what if Sam is bringing something up? What do you got, Sam?

What are we looking at here? What is Sam roll up on the screen? Oh, here is me, Asia, and Andy. This is Viber 41, so this is me on a green screen in my closet. I don't look so happy. Might've been super hot, but are we playing something, Sam? Or are we just, okay. He's not playing, It's a screenshot.

I encourage everyone to go to that. I don't know if it's behind patron, uh, the patron door. What is that patron Q and a week nine with Asia and, uh, that's deep in the archives over on the Patreon. Okay. Incredible. Incredible. Andy, what else is going on for you?

Anything you want to talk about? Oh, that's a great question. I hope we got enough Survivor 48 talk in there. I think so. I think we're at Survivor 48 talked out for the most part. I think this is probably going to be the last time we're going to talk about Survivor 48 for, at least in terms of what happened in the season. Okay, well, one last point.

I think that Kyle is a very, very strong winner. And I think that the new era, say what you winner. And I think that's a new era. Say what you will. I mean, I love the new era, generally speaking. Produces very good winners who play really good games. I think it's interesting to compare and compare if we're talking about 47 versus 48. Comparing Rachel and Kyle is very interesting.

I think that they play very different games, of course. I think what's interesting is that what like, they both have, people have long talked about this. They both do have, I course. I think what's interesting is that what like, uh, they both have. People long talked about this. They both do have, I must say the winter sparkle. They have the winter sparkle and they both have similar temperament as well. And like, and they're both very smart. And so they have a lot of these similarities, but, uh, the, their winning paths were very much different.

I think that on Kyle's side, I think that he was completely able to demonstrate mastery of something that we had to interrogate Rachel on, on not proving so much was just the ability to use social strategic wiles to, uh, stay in the game and have things work out, votes work out how they want, you know, in sort of the fundamental sense. So he definitely did a very, very good job of that. work out, votes work out how they want, you know, in sort of the fundamental sense. So he definitely did a very, very good job of that. And I think in retrospect, we could say that Survivor 48 was a little bit boring in post-emerge because there was like this

giant, this big blocky piece that is Joe and Eva in the middle of the game board. And it was frustrating to see that it wasn't busted wide open. But I think piecing everything together, it's very clear that there were the people around them saw them as, as well, like not to like be to whatever about it, but like, as the game piece that they can use to further their own game and, and when sitting next to them. And so Kyle was the, was the player best able to do that. And so his game plan worked absolutely perfectly. And he did a lot of smart, made a lot of smart moves along the way. And I think what's amazing is he also had that social,

that social ability to like, you know, like he just, he was not, obviously he wasn't targeted. And I forgot what he was gonna say, I was gonna say, but obviously a very likable guy. But the thing is, so I want to give a point to Rachel on the other side of it though, because if I, if looking at the game tape, if I were, if both, both of them were put in very sticky situations, very dangerous situations, I think that Rachel would prove

to be, you know, I would bet, you know, a lot more money on Rachel getting out of that as opposed to Kyle. And so I think I love the sort of comparing and contrasting. And I think that you put those two impressive winning games together. You see a lot of like different survivor skills are played. I think I might say, I think if I was going to compare the two, and this is a hard comparison to do, I think I might say Rachel. And this is why I, what I would say is that Kyle to me had a scene partner in Camilla that after Annika goes home, Rachel doesn't really have that person. And so Rachel was much more, yes she had to win challenges, yes she had to win Idols, but she basically had to go solo.

Whereas opposed to Kyle, you know, had a lot, and maybe Kyle has the better social bonds, and he did have to play the Idol for himself in the pre-merge. But I think that post-merge, I think he had a easier road to get to the end than Rachel did. It's, and we can go back and forth, like we're talking about winning games throughout Survivor history,

but it's like how impressive is it, how impressive was it on Kyle's part to have that relationship and maintain it? Camilla, a very smart player with a lot of win equity throughout the entire game. I think it was kind of a testament to some of his strengths that there were players willing to get in with Kyle to that deep extent.

But you do have to, again, sort of compare the cast that each of them played on. I think something that defined Survivor 47 was that, I don't think, so the way that we played the game, especially in the post-merge, we just wouldn't let anyone get away with having this type of position. Like we had no, as a tribe, as a post-merge tribe,

we just had no mercy for someone being in a good position. Whereas 48, they just had different sort of viewpoints of the game and like what mattered and, um, something that Kyle was definitely able to benefit from, uh, and so we'll see, uh, you know, we'll see this, how we, this is the next step. Who's going to play again, you know, like each of them play again, like, are they going to do in a different situation? We'll get more data, but, um, I, instead of, uh, ranking them against each other, I just think it's kind of beautiful that they played

two different strong winning games. Okay. Andy, besides survivor, big brother, are there any other reality shows that you're watching? Yes. I was really, really into a devil's plan. Season Netflix. I am a big, like a big genius fan. You watched the genius game, okay. So I am watching the genius game UK. It's not like completely captivating my attention. So I'm an episode behind, but I am watching it.

And I'm definitely giving it a shot. But I just, I have to say, like, I was really obsessed with your genius coverage back in the day. The original run of genius South Korea, you and Steven fishback, you only did two seasons, we're still waiting on that third one, but, um, uh, very, very, very much into that. And I will just take this moment to say that devil's plan on Netflix. Now this is the same creators that as the genius, like South Korean TV creator.

Um, and I think that devil's plan is, is very, very good. And I think it Devil's Plan is very, very good. And I think it lives up to the genius South Korea, whereas genius UK, we're going to have to wait and see. I don't even, I probably, you know, probably not even going to get a season two, but I mean, we'll see about that. But if anyone wants to check out Devil's plan on Netflix, I think it's, it's amazing reality. Yeah. I've heard good things

Yeah, I'm looking for more devil's playing coverage I was like, all right, I'm ready to fire up the podcast I don't really see anything yet. Well We've had a lot going on Andy Sure, I think there's a lot going on. Yeah, this is a very fun time to be in the survivor community. You're very Yes, but Andy we appreciate you so much, Andy. Thank you for making some time, sharing all of your survivor insights with us, giving us the lore of Baby Andy. Of course, of course.

Absolutely my pleasure. How are you still making those cameos? Cameos? Cameos going well, yeah, I'm still doing the cameos. So, hit up my cameo. Like I said at the top of the podcast, my sabbatical is over. I am looking for full-time employment.

Cameo can go a long way for me in the next month or two. But you know what, and I've said this before, I love doing that because they're actually really like, at least for me, just speaking for myself, like the, the, the sort of requests I get are just feel really genuine. And like, no one's like trying to like make me say anything crazy or like suss or embarrassing or something like that. It's just like people really like who love survivor and like want to celebrate, you know, a birthday or something. So I'm like, more than happy to do. Okay. Well, I'm happy to hear that. Yeah. And you know, there's the odd requester too,

but like 99% pretty good. Okay. You'll take that. All right. Well, Andy, we appreciate you. Thank you so much. And thank you for all of the kind words you said about me and Rob is a podcast throughout this conversation. Always. Rob has a podcast. this conversation. Always. Rob was a cop. Rob has a podcast. Change my life. Okay. And I really appreciate that. We'll put that on the poster on the billboard. And anytime you want to call back in on any of these call in shows, Andy ready. Yeah. I'm just going to jump into the Q and A's that are happening now. So that's where you'll

probably see me next. I don't know. We'll see. Maybe Big Brother coverage. Kind of around the corner. Okay. Coming this summer. All right. Thank you so much for joining us. Take care, everybody. Have a good one. Bye.