RHAP: We Know Survivor - Aras Baskauskas Talks Survivor 50

Episode Date: April 5, 2026

Aras Baskauskas Talks Survivor 50 Survivor 50 is heating up, and Rob Cesternino welcomes Survivor: Panama winner Aras Baskauskas to recap the wildest moments, strategy shake-ups, and personal journeys of the returning legends. Recap is back as Rob and Aras navigate the fallout from the Blood Moon Tribal Council, analyze Cirie’s impressive run, and debate whether old-school loyalty or new-school flexibility will win in a season packed with big moves and even bigger personalities. Rob and Aras go deep on the shifting alliances, especially the rise of Cirie, Ozzy, and Rizo as a power trio, and the consequences of old-schoolers clinging to loyalty versus the new-schoolers’ willingness to flip. They break down the controversial Blood Moon Tribal, with its split-vote chaos and the unlucky fate of the Canadian players, and pitch ways the twist could have given castaways more control. The duo also opens up about Survivor scars, how trauma, ego, and old wounds shape the moves of returnees, and highlight the complexities of Cirie’s social mastery and Ozzy’s evolving gameplay. Plus, they look at strategizing the jury, the pitfalls of pregame alliances, and the personalities leading the season’s best moments, from Chrissy’s surprise fierceness to Jonathan’s wardrobe “choices.” The Blood Moon Tribal’s random groups, unlucky Canadians, and how twist tweaks could change agency Cirie, Ozzy, and Rizo: the formation and advantage of this surprise alliance Survivor trauma: how old mistakes and player egos are fueling new decisions Chrissy’s under-the-radar gameplay and her pitch-perfect approach to vote control\ Why pregame talks and decades-long relationships muddy returning player seasons The jury’s mood: how who you vote off (and how) might set the tone for the endgame With key alliances forming and old-schoolers at a crossroads, Survivor 50 is anyone’s game. Will loyalty keep the five together, or will the clever power trios break the majority wide open? What’s Cirie’s path to the end—and can anyone stop her? Tune in for Rob and Aras’s full Survivor 50 deep dive, including idol speculation, jury threats, and the strategy shaping this epic anniversary season! 0:00 Rob Welcomes Aras, Survivor Memories 6:07 Blood Moon Tribal Council Fixes 12:59 Cirie’s Subtle Strategic Episode Moves 14:09 Ozzy and Cirie Alliance Formation 24:21 Who Should Return To Survivor? 30:22 Pregame Alliances and Old-School Bonds 40:45 Cirie’s Ideal Final Three Path 48:06 Chrissy Surprises With Strategic Play 57:36 Why Colby, Cirie, Coach Split 1:01:19 Blood vs Water Generations Idea 1:10:13 Aras’ Day 39 Survivor Fall 1:27:54 Modern Survivor: Prize vs Personal Growth To pre-order Rob’s book, The Tribe and I Have Spoken, visit www.robhasabook.com Never miss a minute of RHAP’s extensive Survivor coverage! LISTEN: Subscribe to the Survivor podcast feed WATCH:  Watch and subscribe to the podcast on YouTube SUPPORT:  Become a RHAP Patron for bonus content, access to Facebook and Discord groups plus more great perks!

Hey, everybody. What's going on? Rob Sesternerino back here. And boy, do we have a fun podcast for you here today? Because one of my great friends from back in the day who used to just come in and just crush season after season after season on RHAP. He's back with us to talk about season 50. It's Otis Bushkowski. Otis, how are you? I'm great, Rob. I'm great. I'm so happy to be back. It's been too long. I did wear my tidy white is. Yes. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. I'm trying to remember going back to the first time you ever came to my apartment. I think that Sandra linked us up. I think you introduced me to Waze, which I still do. I still use. My wife says Ways sucks, but I still use it.

Wow. You came over. You wanted to have a chin up contest in my little like space. bedroom that we started the podcast. You just started getting shit. It's just starting and continuing on my journey. And yeah, we were in a little tiny room. It was like nighttime when you came over. And here we go. How many years? What is that? Like 13 years ago? Yeah, a good chunk. A good chunk. And from, I think if we did a chin up contest now, I would get zero. Yeah. I don't actually, I don't do a lot of chin up. So we'll see, have to see. It could be, oh, a crazy game just like Survivor 50, which will get into everything with you. But give us the update. How are you doing? I'm good, man. I'm good. I have two small children. I guess they're getting bigger by the day. River is 11th, stages seven, married, happily. We just moved back into our house since the Palisades fires. We suffered smoke damage, so that feels good. Yeah, life is good.

Watching Survivor feels a whole lot better than playing it. And yeah, excited to talk about the season. get into the nitty gritty. And of course, you know, since your days of, you know, having so much free time to podcast with me, by the way, I still have my tundra hat, still wear it, by the way. Wow. Wow. Incredible. Yes, my family, it's appropriate. They, it seems like my, my wife and children don't seem to like it. I think it's very functional, but they still, they, they seem very concerned somebody else that they know is going to see me wearing it. That's the problem. That's the problem with the tundry gear hat, right? It's cozy. It's great on an airplane if you need to take a nap, but you don't really want to be photographed in. Yeah, they, it doesn't bother me. It seems like it's,

that's their problem, but how's everything going with Christy Dawn? Christy Dawn's going great. We're, uh, we're in year 12 now. It's, uh, it's been a great success. I mean, I never envisioned myself a, uh, a woman's dress, uh, manufacturer, but here we are, you know? Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, it's been a good journey. Yes, congratulations. on all the continued success there with that. But let's talk about season 50. And what's your big picture of you on season 50 now that we're six weeks in? Gosh, well, first of all, favorite season ever.

Wow. For real? Outside of the Zach Brown 38-minute cameo, it's so much fun to see these old players come back. Coach just is incredibly entertaining. Obviously, I have a huge connection with Surrey. But I think it's really fun to watch these old school players come back and play. And then there's some new school players. Like Rizzo's been incredibly entertaining.

In terms of gameplay, you know, it's, it's the game is afoot and things are unfolding. I think we haven't gotten into the meat of the season yet, really. With that many players, it's so hard. But I just think I've been eating up the coach Aussie stuff. Like it's just been, it's, I can't say it's brought a tear to my eye, maybe from laughter, but it's just been incredible. Yeah. It has been really, really fun, and it's been great to see everybody back, and everybody has

really delivered in all sorts of fun ways, and there's been a lot to talk about, a lot to complain about, but that's Survivor, baby. That's right. That's right. And, I mean, I can't, I can't even begin to fathom the wild Canadian April Fool's experience that, you know, the North-Muff. have experienced on Wednesday. Having both of their Canadian players go out.

Yeah. Back to back. That's another survivor twist that, you know, you just can't, you can't write this stuff. You know, everybody was excited. Okay, we don't have 24 players. We're going to get to see all of these folks. And, of course, we had our issues with the cast, but nobody was complaining that this

is too many people. Why do you have 24? Get it down to 18, please. But, no, we got 24, but we, you know, it's 26 days. We got to get rid of some people. Yeah, you had to get rid of, you got to get rid of, I mean, I kind of love the format of knocking out three and separating it into five. The problem is, is that it's so that, that random nature of the vote out for all, and when you already kind of have your lines drawn in the sand at that point, and now you're going to split in, it's just a game of luck. Do you have three with you or two with you that are on your side?

Okay. Let me pitch you. This is my proposal to have done a better job here. on the Blood Moon Tribal Council. Okay, we still have our three groups of five. But instead of reach into the bag and pick out your colored buff for the day, reach into the bag and you pick out a number.

Or maybe, you know what? I don't know, it's not at Applebee's, but when you go to the bakery, you get a ticket, okay? It's like, okay, you're going to be in order and you get your line at the ticket. And then, okay, who's number one? Go pick a spot in the three things, okay? Who's number two?

Do you want to be, in the same one as the first person or you pick your, okay, I gotta go in my own. And now, it's a little squid game, you know, of like, okay, which group do I want to be with? And you go in the random order. So there's some luck. But it's also like, okay, do I want to go, I'm going to go here where I'm going to show my hand. Do I want to go here because I, oh, I think I can get this person voted out. So I felt like that maybe if you did it that way, it'd be the same thing, ultimately, but you give the players a little more agency in terms of just like, oh, I got the wrong buff. Okay, I waited three years to be here.

I guess it's over. I love that idea, but I'm going to add a twist to your twist. Please do. Is you do that before you announce that this is just to compete for a single immunity apparently. Right? So you're going to choose your teams the way that you've kind of set it up. And you're just competing for, sorry, not even immunity, reward. Okay.

All right. So now everyone's, and so then as after the teams are selected, he goes, you're not just playing for reward. you're playing for immunity and there's only one necklace. And now, where there's no necklaces, right? I don't know how else, I guess, because there were no, I guess, yeah, you're playing for immunity and there's three necklaces, but it's individual, right? And so each of you are going to go because I think then, because when you're picking for

reward, you're picking so differently than you would be picking for immunity. Yeah. Right. And so I think that would be an interesting twist to be like, oh, pick for reward. And now you picked your teams. Now you have to vote someone out. April Fools. It's not.

guess what? This episode is airing on April Fool's Day and you just got April Fool's even though it's June 9th today, it's April Fool's for the viewers. And we trick you. I think that'd be great. I think that'd be a great twist

where you give them agency. Maybe you don't reveal the whole kind of scope of what they're going to be facing. But yeah, I think that would have been more ashamed because the way that they did it, it was by the time you picked your thing randomly, you were you were toaster. you weren't. Like, is there a single vote there? I mean, maybe you have like the Colby vote.

Yeah. It was like, it was between two, but it was never going to go any. Or Colby. I think that the Jonathan spot was probably presented as the biggest swing. Oh, is he going to stick with Camilla and Tiffany or is it going to go with Chrissy and Stephanie? But that seemed like that that was a pretty much a foregone conclusion. But I want to pull back a bit and go to you and your viewing experience. Are you watching with the whole family now? Yeah, we watch with the whole family. It's me, the boys, Christy. Julie Barry just moved back to L.A. Oh, nice. So sometimes she'll watch. My brother will come with his son and we watch. So try to watch with, you know, as much of the family. If the whole group back together.

Yeah, yeah. Three survivors in one room. It's a fun weekly event. Yeah. And are your kids really into it? Oh, yeah. My older son loves it. My older son thinks it's great. And he, yeah, he loves, he loves talking afterwards about strategy and why they voted off this. You know, I think for 11 year old, it's hard to really fathom how much you're not seeing. Yeah. And so I try to let them know, like, hey, there's a whole understory here. And so what's fun for me is, and I'm sure it is for you too, Rob, it's, it's piecing together what actually happened based on kind of some of the clues they give you, knowing so much more happened than what's presented. It really is. for me to watch it with the family. I know Jeff talks about, we make the show for families, and I don't know, like, how much that holds for everybody. But it is a very fun night when my kids, my younger son always falls asleep before he gets to the end of the show, but my older son, that he is into it. And not as much as I would like him to be, but, you know, it is very fun when then he had questions. I like to quiz everybody. All right, Nicole, who do you think is going home? All right, Dominic, what do you think is going to go home? So it is a fun night. And I do

get why, you know, it is a big hit with families. Yeah. What's wild is our investors for Christy Don, one of, like, their whole family watches. That's not why they invest in Christyton. But I didn't hurt, though. I get text. What's that? Didn't hurt though. Maybe if, maybe if I hadn't made the jury, it would have hurt. It's a cat reference. I don't know if you. Yeah, you'd be undatable, uninvestable is what you should have said. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. But it is. It's fun. It's fun. And it's fun to like, I'm sure you get plenty of text throughout the week after, you know, of like friends and family, like, what did you think of that? What did you think of this?

And now I get to text, Surrey. And, uh, God, I, am I allowed to say this? But like, the, the Jeff Rap? What did that get? It's like, who thought that was a good idea? Did you text Surrey after you saw the Jeff Rap? I did. I literally texted her brutal.

Like, what, what are we doing here? Yes. Um, yeah, that was rough. Yes. Okay. Yes. Did you text her SMDH shaking my damn head? Oh, oh, I didn't text her that, but I should have. I should have. I did, however, I will say this. Um, Mertz called me a few weeks ago and was like, hey, uh, Tony Vlachos was supposed to do this live on Canadian TV for the, the opening of Survivor. Will you take his spot? spot, yeah. So I said, sure. He said, okay, great, wake up at 5 a.m. to do this live Canadian TV thing that's like a minute long. And they asked me, who do you think's going to win the whole thing? And obviously, I'm going to go with Surrey because that's my, that was my role dog. And God,

that first episode watching Surrey almost go down was rough. Hey, listen, look. This is in the end. It's just like how it was in the beginning, right? What's more of the first episode? then Surrey in Survivor Panama. Back against the ropes, a cornered tiger. That's right. Hey, hey, honest. Why do you take my... I was making big moves in Canada.

Yeah, so there was that. There was that moment. But, no, it's really fun to watch. It's fun to know people. I don't know what it's like for you, but seeing coach. I love knowing people. I don't really know coach that well,

but man, it is fun to watch coach. I'm so glad they went with Colby, just for entertainment purposes, honestly, because coaches. Okay, well, let's talk about the mall. Okay, so let's start with Surrey and tell us about what you're seeing here. First, before we've seen to even talk to Survivor 50, did you watch Surrey play on Australian Survivor versus the world? I didn't. I didn't watch. And I know there's a little bit of drama regarding whether or not winning Australian Survivor is kin-to-winning American Survivor.

So I'm going to just keep quiet. Okay. I'm not saying I didn't watch because it wasn't equally valuable. I just didn't know which channel to tune into. Okay, fair enough. Okay. So here comes Surrey back for her fifth time playing American Survivor, sixth overall.

And so what have you thought about Surrey's run here? Man, I think the moniker greatest to never win is absolutely fitting here. It's just she's such got such a subtle game. Her ability to navigate really tight spaces is incredible. And her acuity, her social acuties like off the charts, right? So she, you know, in this last episode, she has that confessional of like, not sure why everybody wants this easy vote. Let's chop off, you know, why chop the tail, chop off the head, right?

Which shows you, first of all, she understands very clearly the power dynamic of, the opposing kind of what appeared to have been the majority, right? And secondarily, she understands this, which by the way, that's old school survivor, right? She understands the old school survivor. She understands that group. She understands who's leading it. And then now she's working with these younger players, both in age, but also in terms of like survivor kind of experience. And she's able to get them to see that Colby's the one. Yeah. I'd love to have to ask you about her relationship with Ozzy, I'm sure, while you never played with Ozzie, I'm sure you encountered him many, many times just out of pure, the geographical location you've

been for all this time. So what do you think about this pairing of Ozzie and Surrey? Did you see that as a duo that would work so well together? You know, I didn't see it coming, but I was so happy to see it. You know, I think that's, again, I think what you're talking about is the same kind of like the end is the beginning, the beginning is the end, right? Like she pairs herself with a physical threat who's a little bit less subtle socially. Who does that remind you of, right? Like maybe I wasn't as much of a physical threat. Maybe I'm even less subtle socially, but it's like she found another artist to play with. Yeah. I don't know if I agree with that assessment. in terms of your self-assessment.

But yeah, I think that sort of, if you were looking at the overlap between you and Ozzy, I think that both of you are sort of like a little bit more of a, you know, between you came in as a yoga instructor. Ozzy is a little bit sort of, you know, a little no collar to use a survivor parlance. Right. So I think that there is just like a vibe that's somewhat similar.

Yeah. Yeah. And I think I was really glad to see that Oz understood. Like it just showed me the evolution of Ozzy's game. I'm like, yo, I'm not a social, I'm not a social giant.

Let me pair with the best, right? And that will help me navigate. So, I mean, and then obviously like, I thought separately, I thought,

you know, the episode after Ozzy was not in on the vote. And he kind of has that big rant with Christian. And then I really loved his self-awareness. I was really impressed with Ozzy's self-awareness. And kind of that, that moment that Ozzy had on screen around like, wow, recognizing like, oh, this is,

this is a deep habit pattern and like, I want to shift this. And I was actually really surprised how much he was able to patch that up with Christian, to be honest. I was, but, but, and I think they did it, right? By the time they get to the merger, like, all we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're all we got. Let's stay together here. Yeah. And we'll see how it all unfolds. And they did start the game together on that same starting tribe. I think that there was like a relationship there. And I think that Christian just underestimated how much it was going to bother Ozzy to be left out of that vote. And I think that for Ozzy was such a betrayal. And Christian was like, no, no, no, no, no. This is why I just left you out of this one thing. I still want to work

together. And Ozzy was a little slower to overlook that. But it does. Yeah. But that's like new school versus old school, right? Old school survivor, you do that. You're done. New school, you kind of have to be like, sure, I guess we're okay again. But I do think, and this is what I said on the Canada, the one thing I thought that was acute that I said on that little one-minute thing on Canada is like, it's really understanding other people's traumas. If you can under, like the reason I think I didn't do as well as I should have done on my second season is I didn't understand other people's, particularly Tyson's trauma of having played twice

and what he was going to be looking for. And I think if you can understand other people's traumas, you have such a better change. Now, sorry, I'm going to jump all over here. I apologize to the viewers, Rob. But since it's top of mind, do we have any deeper story, like, truly on what was going on with Charlie? Because it seemed like there was a mix up in the edit and they just played the same clip over and over across two episodes. But can we explain that? Yeah, I don't know.

I get the sense that Charlie wanted to vote out Rizzo for, I think, that more of sort of the Monday, reasons in we don't know who he is, we don't have any connections with him, he's a wildcard, he's the only person from that original starting Red Tribe, the VATU. So I think he was sort of like just a easy vote. And I think that Charlie wanted to, as somebody who is of the new era, like maybe put a little hot sauce on it, okay? I want the credit for this. And the reason why I heard he just didn't vote for his number one. And I think that maybe, that's a little more interesting to the producers and the editors

and so I think that he is giving them that but I think that there's probably a lot of other reasons why that makes sense that that's the reason why Charlie ends up wanting Rizzo to be the person who gets, I'm sure that Rizzo feels

or Charlie felt that way a little bit but I don't know if it was like the pure motivation of Charlie saying hey I have a code and you broke my code and he's like Dexter And he's like, okay, because you broke my code, you must die, Rizzo. Otherwise, we could have been cool.

But I can't look past what you did. Right. That makes sense to me. That makes a lot of sense to me. And I do think that I do think a handful, if not all returning players, recognize the important of a good sound bite. So he probably was like, this is the sound bite. Let me make sure I included in a few OTFs to make sure that it gets in there,

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I'd love to go back to what you were talking about with the trauma and these open wounds that the Survivor players have because I think it has been the most interesting part of this season. And I don't remember it talked about as much in any of the other returny seasons that we've had on Survivor. First off, was it something? I know you said you didn't pay enough attention to what Tyson might have been coming back into Blood versus Water with. But did you have things from the season? that you were a winner of that you were dealing with when you came back and played the second time? The only thing I was dealing with, Rob, was hubris.

Had a lot of that, brought a lot of that to the island. No, I think, I think, I say it jokingly, but, you know, for me, at least, winning, it's hard to not think your shit doesn't stink. Sorry, your, you know, your excrement doesn't. It's hard to think, you know, it's hard to think that you haven't done it right. And so I didn't have, you know, now, now, 20 years, Rob, it'll be 20 years, May 14th since I was crowned winter of season 12, right? And so now I have, I have time and experience to look back. But I think, you know, at the time, I thought I won because of what I had done, you know, that's that I was like, I was great.

That's what in my head. I might not have said that out loud, but that's what I thought. Now when I look back, I see that, wow, like, there were so many. things beyond my control that went just the right way. And if anything had been any different, if Surrey makes fire, if Bruce isn't constipated, there's so many things where I don't win Survivor, right? Now I know that. Now looking back.

But when I went into my second season of playing, I didn't have a lot of critique of my game, and that was the hubris that I'm talking about. Whereas, like, Tyson, who had lost twice, was so acutely aware that you don't leave camp. because if you leave camp to fish, that's the moment that the group will whisper about you. So I was like, no, I'm going to go off and fish. And I fished a lot and I got things a lot. And that was part of what I enjoyed so much about being on the island was, as you well know, there's so much downtime was to be in nature and doing those things.

Tyson was so locked in on not leaving and those kinds of things that, of course, he was going to put himself in a better position to win. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, obviously hindsight, if I played again, I would do things differently. Now, also, should note, I don't want to play again. I'm not interested in play again. But if I did play again, I would do things differently. Yeah, and you would have different wounds from the second time you played that you'd be dealing with

and the third time you played. That's right. That's why they can keep bringing people back over and over again, because we're, you know, that it's the greatest game ever, but it breaks us in all sorts of different ways, even when we win. Yeah, and I mean, that's the incredible thing about Rob Sestrinos. They, Survivor figured out a way to make sure they got someone to win, which is also incredible. That's the first and only time we've seen that. Yes.

Sorry, was that? Was that? Too soon. Yeah. But for these players who are coming back and that they're all dealing with something, I've really just enjoyed it so much. And I think it's such a great invitation for other players. to come back and explore these stories. Colby talked about that his 50s

are an era of reflection. And I just think that I told Colby this, that I think that it really opened the door for maybe Survivor in its 50s. It should have its own era of reflection. Instead of stop trying to be new, why don't we look back at, you know, I love that.

You know, have some, bring back some of these Survivor players that we wanted to have, you know, explore some of the things that with these journeys that we went on with people that we never got the resolution for. Yeah, that's right. That's right. I like that.

Is there any, let me ask you this, Rob, not in any kind of controversial way, but are there any survivors that only played once that you'd want to see play again? I think there's a lot of them. I think that, you know, you had people who were in the mix for this season, certainly with Carolyn,

who played in Survivor 44, and Jesse, who you would have thought were locks to come back and play after his run in Survivor 43. And Davey was somebody who, you know, was in the mix. But I guess they had enough people from Survivor David versus Goliath. I'm trying to think people really wanted to see Jerry and Amanda come back, but they've played multiple times. Sean Rector is another person who I just saw him in Atlanta,

but he was another person who fits that mold of a one-time player who we never got to see come back. Yeah. Shane Powers. Oh, Shane, Shane, and T. Bird. Yeah.

People that were left behind in Survivor Second Chances. Yeah. Yeah. I would love to see Shane play. I know this sounds pretty kind of unpopular, but I would have loved to see

Francesca play one more time. I feel like if we're talking about season 50, how could you not bring back Francesca? And maybe bring back what was, what did he call himself? The FBI.

Oh, the specialist? Yeah. Yeah, the specialist. There it is. There is. Yeah. But you want bringing them both back again? I mean, if you're going to bring back Francesca, you kind of...

That's what they said the second. That she wouldn't come back. I think that she would say no. I'm not sure she would play Survivor under any circumstances again, but I think that she would definitely pass. Would you play again, Rob? Would you want to play again? I...

So, I was talked to about season 50. It did not work out that they went in a different direction about it. it. And I think I was a little bit more about, I had more reservations about doing it because I kind of felt like if I was going to go on Survivor 50, what if I did bad? What if I did bad? And then everybody would say, should we even listen to this guy? Like, what an idiot. He talks about these games. And then, you know, and then I did the traders and didn't go great. And people were so nice. I got so much love when I did the traders. To be fair, that, that, that, Trader is a totally different game.

And with no doctor, you were, you were sting duck. I was cooked, but. Yeah, you were in a situation where you weren't going to win. I think that the reason for you,

if you were like, hey, Auda says my therapist, should I go back on and you had the chance, I would say you're going to be a target, right? Like you're, you're, you, whether you like it or not,

and I'm probably sure you like it. Like you are part of, of the, the rarefied air of truly kind of like, upper echelon survivors, much because of your RHAP work, right? Like, I think that you have, you've become a symbol of survivor unto itself. Maybe, yeah, the survivor community at the very least. And so.

But that includes the survivors, right? On a returning season, there's not a single player out there that's not going to be like, oh, that's Rob. I want a, I want a fishy. But, yeah, that's, hey, that's Stephen's department. Stephen would never give me the fish. He would never, he would, like, go out of his way to avoid giving me the fishy. Yeah, that's a great question.

Can you bring this up next time? you have a podcast. If I played with Stephen give me a fishy? Yeah. Would he be open to giving you a fishy? I think he'd be open to it, but I think he would like go just to try to tweak me. He would do everything in his power not to give me one. But I would say just to coming off of my traders experience, I found it in an odd way

freeing where now I'm like Lucy Goosey, you know, sure, put me on Survivor. Let me. I'll be first. I'll be, yeah, yeah. You know what? Like that no pun intended, but like I went, I did that. I got murdered, and I'm still here. Like, I'm still alive.

Yeah, that's right. Nobody unsubscribed from the podcast because I did bad on the traders. And if I went out on the, you know, the reservation for me was always just like, yeah, but are they going to let me do the podcast? Like, so it's like sort of if I went out and I did Survivor and then I was off the show, it's one thing. Hey, I can't podcast because I'm on the show. But now it's like, what am I just like going to be in a holding pattern for months and

months and months? So that's the part that would still be complicated. But right. And I think also, I think also like two things. One, I just want to reverse engineer traders for a second. Okay. Let's just say you're a fly on the, on the, in the corner of the castle, right? And you're watching this game unfold. And you are, you are the advisor to the traders. Are you voting Rob Cesternino stay? Yeah. The traders like to keep the people that don't have a clue around as long as they can. So are you letting as, as the advice. advisor to the traders. No, of course. So you didn't do bad. You just entered a game in which you were so overly qualified as a faithful that the traders had no choice but to make sure that you went home early.

Yeah. And I think I incorrectly assumed that one of my friends might be in the turret keeping me safe for a little bit. And I'd have a chance to, that was not the case. I mean, if I was playing and I was a traitor and we're friends enough, I would go after you. I don't want a smart game player left in the game. Yeah, well, if you're, if you're there to win, you don't want, I would have eliminated all the survivors first. I mean, even look like Natalie became troublesome when she was left too long. Real Jam Jam over here.

Oh, God, that was, that was a great moment. Sorry, people are listening to this, they've never watched this, but Jam Jam, if you haven't watched traders, when Jam Jam Jam gets, gets the kiss of death, it's a moment. You like that. I loved his reaction. So, so much drama. Yeah. Okay. So here's something that I would love to ask you about. It's a little taboo, okay? So, you know, but, you know, indulge me or tell me if you want to move on to something else. But there's been a lot of talk about the survivors having some pregame conversation. And it's been sort of like there's been some subtext in the show.

There's been a lot of like full text in social media in terms of, hey, this person was talking to this person, this person is talking to this person. I just would love to know from you as somebody who went back and played in a returning season. And somebody who admittedly, you've talked about this, was burned where you felt like that you and Jervis had something good. Jervis wanted to go in a different direction. And so how do you feel about that this ends up being a big part of these returning player seasons? Yes.

First thing, it's inevitable. So anybody who says, like, it shouldn't happen. Okay, go live in Eden or wherever. whatever thing you think is perfect world. No, it's it's unavoidable, right? With social media and the way that Survivor family is, like once you're in, you know everybody. And I think it's, you know, back to trauma.

Like my one of the traumas that I, if I ever went back, which I wouldn't, but if I ever did it, it would be returning players again is I don't blame Jervis for going the other way. Sure. I blame myself for not nurturing a relationship where I thought, okay, this is good from something outside the game, I don't have to look at it. So I think that pregame alliances can be really dangerous

because you're going to assume this, and this person is going to assume this level of commitment, and all of a sudden you have kind of varying degrees of expectation. But it's definitely there, and I think it's kind of fun for me to watch the season, not knowing any of the pregame alliances, and kind of like, oh, this looks like this may be something that, like Ozzie and Surrey, for example,

Now, I don't know this from anything. No one said anything, but looking at the way that they aligned tells me there may have been some level of communication before the game of like, let's try something. But I think it's hard with them. Like, they've actually, they've played together before. They've known each other for, I mean, you played 20 years ago and Ozzy played right after that. So this is actually what, their third time playing together.

They were together in Micronesia. So I just think that like when you know somebody for years and years and years, even if you haven't played Survivor with them, that there's just a familiarity there. And Surrey was talking about like, hey, the old school people aren't going to like turn against the people that they're with. But I think that there's like even if you never played with somebody, I think it's harder to turn against somebody on a dime when you've known that person for 10, 15, 20 years, even if you aren't necessarily best friends. with them. I agree. I agree 100%. I think it's like, this is the fascinating. And then, so let's talk about trauma again. Like, what was it? Season 40 was the winner's season? Yep. Was that, that, okay, so what happened to all the old school players? Like one by one, they got eliminated, right? It was old school got, and so all the old school players who came back for 50 had to have some level of awareness of what happened in 40,

right? It's just, it's fascinating to see the evolution and the, and kind of like, oh, old school players must have figured out. We better figure something out or else we're going to be sitting ducks again. Yeah. Well, Surrey talked about this in the episode about how this is how the old school players think of like, okay, I'm going to stick with my people. I'm not going to turn my back on them, whereas the new era players are going to vote out their friends or I'll work with my enemy. But like when we're talking about like in the context of a new era season, the season is only, only 26 days. You might have somebody that you've been working with for 12 days, but it's really at the end of the day. And Rob Rausch said this at the end of the traders. Like, am I really going to give all this money to somebody I met three weeks ago? Right. And, but on the other side of

things, you have these relationships that people have had for going on 15 plus years. It's like, how do you expect me to turn my back on this person? Like, I know their family. Like, I know their kids, like I know all these things about them, and they've been in my life forever. You know, I'm going to go home. My wife is going to be like, why did you flip on this person as opposed to, in the context of a new era season, everybody's strangers, your family members would be mad at you for not flipping on this person that you just met. That's right. That's right. 100%. So I'm curious, because we haven't really seen a moment yet where kind of the rubber meets the road, right?

Like we haven't seen a moment where old school has to turn on old school just yet. Really. I mean, I think if anyone's going to turn based on it looks like way things are lining up, you'd think it might be seri, given her relationship with Rizzo and with D, right? She may be the one to break away. Well, I'm curious to see how it unfolds. Right now, Rob, where do you see the line? Like, where do you see, it seems like there's these two groups.

How would you define those two groups? Okay. So here's what I actually had done some work on this earlier in the day today. And we made a video talking about the fallout from the blood moon in this 14 person group. This is the way that I see it. And tell me if you see any holes in what I'm looking at. But I think that you have the honor and loyalty five, I'm calling them. And you have Joe and Coach.

That seems like that they are tight. Now, Colby's gone, but Joe and Coach. still there. Then you have the three people that voted out Camilla in Chrissy, Stephanie, and Jonathan. And Jonathan was with coach originally. I feel like that that five is still together. But then I think that there's some interesting groups of three. You have Rick and Christian and Emily. They've been together since the start. Then... Is Ozzy in kind of a... Well, okay. So there's... Then you have Ozzie and Surrey and Rizzo. I think that that's another three. And I think that there's some, some, uh, magnetic connection there of like, Ozzy is with Emily,

Cere was with that group to start. So I think that those threes are kind of like starting to get together. And then you bring in that Rizzo and Ceree voted with D who is like anti-Johnathan, who just took out Camilla. Tiffany is also the other person who is pissed off at Jonathan and was working with D in the beginning. And, and then you have Aubrey who is connected. with Rick and Christian and then was friends with Tiffany. So I feel like that I see a big group of nine on one side

and then a tight five on the other, which looks good on paper, but you know in Survivor, you almost kind of would rather be in the type five than the loose nine that all has like a lot of overlap, but at some point that nine's going to crack in half. Right, that's right, because you got,

yeah, exactly. So it's like, how do you get the power in that nine? You start looking at people in the five as your number and then it cracks. And then there's also the question of like Surrey and Ozzie looking over at that five and saying like, hey, how much how much is here in terms of stability, right? Yeah, back to that old school. Although I guess, sorry, I was just going to just, I mean, for you is Chrissy old school, new school? She, I think she is with the old school. Well, I think in terms of like...

In terms of defining her as a player. You know what? I think it's almost like more about the... And I'm trying not to say age. But I think it's sort of like a little bit of like generational than it is for like when you played. Like I think that Jonathan, even though he's younger, like it's a little bit more of an old soul. And I think that he's like found himself a little bit more with the 40 plus crowd. Surrey, again, she started her survivor career as one of the older women.

Don't forget. But she is, like, I think a little bit more at home with the younger players. And so she's found herself more there. But she has an interesting where she has the, you know, longtime friend in Ozzie and the new friend in Rizzo. I think that she loves that as a final three. Yeah. I mean, if she, listen, if Surrey gets to the final three, it's hard to not see her winning. Against anybody, but particularly with Ozzie almost feels like that Ozzie would like probably, I don't know, you may, you know Ozzy a lot better than me.

I think Ozzy might even sacrifice himself to get Surrey to the final three at this point in time. Yeah, I mean, I definitely think that Ozzy, if you get to the final four, right, Ozzie's definitely going to ask Siri to make fire. He's not going to, he's not going to say you go ahead, right? I think Ozzie would put himself into the fire and get Sarita then. I think he has enough awareness to know that if you bring Surrey to the finals, you lose. But I think he would bring her to the finals and lose.

You think he would take her out? I don't think he would. I don't think you would. I think he would take her out. I mean, he stated as much, right, in an earlier episode. I think he said exactly that, didn't he, about making fire and all that good stuff? I'd have to go back and check that out. But I almost said that Ozzy, he seems like he's such a loyal player. I don't remember

Ozzie talking specifically about the fire, but it'll be an interesting decision. That would be a dilemma for him if he was in that situation of, do I take Surrey to the end and lose to her? Or do I potentially try to cut Surrey in that spot when that's been so against what he's been in the past? But I do think that the theme of the season has been people trying to correct the mistakes. they've made in the past. So that would be certainly a fascinating moment if that came to pass. But I really feel like that Surrey is set up really well with that trio, especially because I don't think that Rizzo would garner a lot of votes of people like,

this kid seems like he's 26, but he seems like he's a younger guy, like that it was a thing in Winners Award. Do I want to vote for somebody who doesn't have the kids? And people are like, did we want to come in and lose to Rizzo in the, like, Survivor 50. Right. We don't want to acknowledge that it was a 20-year-old kid.

And I think Surrey is keen to that. I think she's sort of like, she's so in touch with things. I think she would love to sit in the end with Rizzo. I agree. I mean, it's also fascinating just briefly just talking about juries and how one of the things that I loved about being on the jury

is when you're on the jury, you kind of just determine what litmus test you're going to use for, you know, crowning a winner. The viewers, everyone in their own head feels like they understand why someone wins. But really, a jury depending on their emotional maturity, you know, the phase of the moon. The blood moon. The blood moon. And Gatorade.

Yeah. Who knows, right? Like, it's so arbitrary when you're in that power seat as a juror. And just like there's pre-gaming, don't worry, jurors talk to each other about who they're going to vote for. What would you call that? Is that post-gaming? Yeah. Yeah.

I think that's right. I like that. Gaming maybe, maybe that's what it is. I mean, it's, and I think so much of it's determined by the first. So, so to, for us now, whoever gets voted off first in this next vote will determine, in my opinion, the timbre of that jury.

Yeah. So if they're bitter, like, thank goodness, Camilla didn't get voted off next vote. Yeah. Because there would have been a level of bitterness in there. That was Chrissy's pitch to Jonathan. She's like, she's never voting for you to win. get rid of her now. Come on.

You're right, Ms. Christie. Yeah. Chrissy did a really good job in this episode. So do you think should that be a decision that the players look at of like, okay, who do I want to put on the jury in terms of that last vote? Not just who I want to put on, but how do I want to put them on? Because I'll tell you, Colby, in my interview with him, said that he thought Surrey wanted him out more because that he felt like Sarie felt like

that Colby would be a more influential juror than Coach would be people might not take him as seriously on the jury. I think that's absolutely... And I said the last time he was on the jury, he started a band. So, yeah, I think that's a good read. Wow, I didn't... I actually didn't know that, but that's...

Can we download that on Spotify? You never listen to the dragons as a musician yourself? You've never heard any of the dragons that coach? J.T. and was Courtney the third member of the Dragons? I didn't know that, but I do feel like it was a miss. Famously the backup dancer?

I do feel like it was a miss not to get a collection of horns available while while Zach Brown was doing his thing just to see what coach would have done. Oh, he could have been. What do you have come in? What would have happened? Yeah. That felt like a miss. Yeah.

If we're going to have freestyle rapping, we've got to have, you know, a trumpet solo. Yeah. All right. So I've interrupted you like nine times trying to talk about putting people on the jury. Sorry. Yeah. I mean, I think my thought is like, hey, not just who you're putting on, but how you're putting them on in your relationship to that vote. Is it a clean relationship in the in the vote off, right? Or is this, are you, are you putting a bitter juror up there? I think for my first season, it was Austin. Austin, I believe, was our first jury member. And we had a good relationship. Thank goodness. I obviously, I was. coming in blind. I didn't have hindsight and understanding, but had it been Courtney, I'm not sure if you recall Exile Island, Courtney was definitely, would have poisoned that well immediately. You know, there's no doubt about it. So I guess my question for you now, Rob, is like,

who do you think would be a poisonous first juror based on who's left and who do you think would be someone who, so I was a first juror also. So that's the reason I know this, right? Yeah. And despite the fact that I was blindsided by my, by my, what I thought was my alliance, I was able to get to a place of like, it's a game. And let's make sure. So kind of my qualities of what I thought, what I was going to vote for is, who played the best game? Who controlled the votes the most times? Like all those things that were important for me versus like, who do I like more?

Or did this person lie to me? I do think there are certain people in the game left that if you vote them off, you know, the next vote, they may have kind of some more personal vendettists to work out. How long were you on the jury for from? I know you famously had the conversation with Vitas about, am I eating a cheeseburger right now? No, that I'm still in the game. So a few days after you were out where you were on Redemption Island. But how long was it between you being out of the game to when you voted?

28 days. Sorry, 18 days. 18. So you were out on day 21 and then you were. So that's interesting. I wonder if there's like, and I always like to think about the differences between the 20s. day game in the 39 day game.

So it was 18 days. These players are going to be, the player who gets voted out in the next episode is going to be 13 days. And then everybody else after that, it's going to be shorter amounts of time. Do you think that time, even like a week of time, is there healing that goes on over like a... There has to be.

There has to be. It's like, you know, you've experienced, it's never fun to get voted off. It doesn't feel good. And then I think it's like who's there to catch you is right like when you're the first one in the jury you have the support of of the of the psych team right to catch you. But then when Vetus comes off next he's got the psych team and his brother. Right. And then I forget who came after Vitas. Who did come after Vitas?

I didn't know with the Tina. Anyways, you know, so there's just like it's kind of the nest from which the you know, whatever whatever landing. had there is, is also going to explain. Because, you know, my first season, when I came off the island, right when the voting was done, I had a four-minute conversation with Dr. Liza. And this is what she said to me. Normally, we would give you a full kind of, you know, debrief and check in with you and all these things.

Your jury is so distraught and there's so many fires to put out that we can't be I'm in triage. Yeah. Yeah. So we have to leave. and go handle, I think two or three contestants were on psychs, psych match to calm them down. So obviously different juries, different feelings. I mean, but then you look at, you look at Vetus's vote in Blood versus Water.

He voted Monica. Yeah. And I don't know if Vetus would say this or not, but from my perspective, that was a vote against jurors. Right. He won her to get second place. Yeah. because he felt burned by Jervis's blinds up, right? Now, I think if you voted again today,

I don't know how he would vote, but I don't think it would be the same motivation, right? Yeah. So it's interesting. Like, do you want to put somebody who's a little bit more, and again, what a privilege it would be to be able to cherry pick? Which person do I want to get out today? Let me see.

But, yeah, I think you kind of want to put, like I think you want an RIS as a first juror. somebody who's going to be a little bit more measured and think about it as opposed to somebody who's going to be, you know, just like ranting about you for all this time. Agreed. I agree. And I don't know who that would be on this. I think there's a, there are some level-headed folks, but there's also some people I wouldn't want to be my first jury member for sure on the season.

Yes. Let me bring in some questions from the listeners of the podcast. and yeah we got absolutely and just let's can we earmark let's talk about chrissey because i was blown i didn't realize she was such a good player go now yeah talk about it don't tease people i you know she played me she she played me that episode because when she was doing her crying and like this is goodbye i i really was like oh why would they cast someone who's not going to fight yeah like that was my emotional experience and boy did she fight and i was so like wow she Yeah.

That was a real beautiful move. So I had a little bit of a different read on it. I felt like that she was saying, hey, everybody, let's not strategize too much because I thought maybe she knew she had it in the bag. I thought that maybe that she was like a little bit trying to, I'm going to run out the clock here. What I'd like to do is not start a desperate scramble because I feel like we've got Jonathan. and she made great points to Jonathan, but I wonder if she was very confident that her and Jonathan had a good enough relationship

that he wasn't going to flip back. Yeah, hindsight 2020. I think that's right. Yeah. That's absolutely right. But I think that as I was watching it, it wasn't apparent to me at that moment in the episode where the lines were drawn.

And so I thought she was just capitulating. Yeah. And so for me as a viewer, I was, I received such a reward because I, you know, I, I was like, great, another, another, you know, lame duck here. That's not what I want to watch. Yeah. I got, I got more to it. But, no, I do think, I do think your read is correct. I do think the lines were drawn.

I think it was clear. And she was probably trying to delay. But I also think by trying to delay, I think it signaled to Camilla that, that she was safe and that, you know, cheat because I think it's really easy. Here's my theory. It's really easy to look at an older player from a different generation and think, oh, this isn't a new young, you know, kind of new school player. This is what kind of more mature.

They're not a life force. They're not going to fight. And I think that that played into kind of that, that, what's the word I'm looking for here? That stereotype. because we've seen it before in Survivor. We've seen kind of the older woman just capitulate before. Not that that's always happened, but we have seen that,

that kind of archetypal capitulation. Chrissy, she is a mom, but she's not necessarily, she doesn't play the mom role to the Survivor players out there. I mean, she can be motherly, but she's a hard gamer. She won four immunities during her season. Yeah. So she's, you know, constantly, you see her, she wants to talk game constantly. So she's not going to roll over. Yeah. Well, I guess, you know, I wasn't full disclosure in my age, 44. Now I'm, I'm forgetting certain players. So Chrissy wasn't like a top of mind player for me when she got recast. So I didn't really remember her first season. Yeah. And so I was for me, yeah, baby, Heroes versus what was what was? What were you? I want you to get.

What are the other two? Heroes versus... Two more H's. What goes with heroes, Otis? It's a common phrase. You hear it all the time. Heroes versus what versus what? I don't know.

You got to tell me. Now I feel stupid. I just feel like I failed. Okay. Don't put me back on. Heroes versus healers. Healers. Healers.

And then... Hunks. Close. Hustlers. Of course. The big three H's. How could you forget that? Yeah, that's right.

That's right. That's right. I forgot. But I don't know. I'm impressed with my ability to retain information. But I was impressed with Chrissy's game.

I'm a fan now. She's won me over. Okay. And as somebody in the clothing industry, what do you thought about Jonathan's clothes this season? A lot of nipple. A lot of nipple.

A lot of nipple. I did. I mean, I don't think that that was intentional. Like, I think that happened probably in a challenge. Oh, you think so? I felt like it was, but maybe it got, there was a rip. Yeah, I think it, my theory, and at this point after my HHS performance, I don't give any weight to any of my theories. But my theory is that ripped during a challenge because I can't imagine how you could go onto certain beaches in America with that much nipple showing.

Yeah. Do you think that maybe, that this. this could be like an accidental discovery of like dropping the chocolate into the peanut butter of that do you think that maybe that this could be a new look that Jonathan developed of the... It could be. It could be. I'm not sure if they're going to serve you with Applebee's, though. Then you have to say it ripped. I don't know.

It ripped. It ripped in the waiting area. I'm sorry. Okay. All right. Then let's see. Also, I just, since we're talking. about Applebee's, I love

an old school product placement moment. It reminded me of the Charmin. Casa Charmin. Yes. Yes. You know, Jeff said Zach Brown was the greatest reward in the history of the show. Wasn't it Casa Charmin? I mean, if you really

think about what Casa de Charmin provided, along with shelter, a bathroom, and toilet people for firemaking, it also gave us Bobby and Bruce's wine experience, which was phenomenal. Right, right. And then Bob Dog went and used it like it was intended to,

but people were upset because they wanted to keep the wood dry. That's a very, a very wild lila happening between Bob Dog and Danielle. I thought, in my humble opinion, and I know this may be controversial to some of your listeners, but the odor released during a bowel movement, has nothing to do with the efficacy of the wood being dried in the same. Yeah, yeah. Some people would say that would be what is Applewood smoked. Ooh.

I guess it depends on where your previous meals were. But yeah, what if it was a big raw fish? Dude, I just, no one will ever understand the level of disappointment of winning that challenge and coming home to flooded camp. Let me just look at the back story.

because you had a chat. And this was a good challenge. They should bring this back. You had to like, what you had to like throw. Yeah. So we're separate. It's a tribe versus tribe, you know, Casaya versus Lamina.

And, um, you have to toss fish from basically, you know, 100 yards from the ocean all the way up. And then, like, heavyweight fish. Oh yeah. We're talking spearfish fish.

Yeah. We're talking about like a little puffer fish. And at the head, at the end, you put someone there to chop the head of the fish and then once you've got them all chopped, you win. Now, if you watched our season, you know we have Bruce Conagai who was a martial artist. He volunteered to be the head chopper. On the other side, you have Terry who, what can't Terry do, right? Navy top gun fighter pilot. So we start the challenge and Terry's chopping the heads in three chops. For whatever reason,

Bruce just can't get through these heads and we swap. for Bob Dog. And we're behind. We're so behind. And all of a sudden, Bob Dog's getting them one chop, and we come from behind, we win this challenge.

You get these, I think it was maybe five fish we ended up getting, or three or five, but big fish to bring back to camp, one bag of rice, one bag of beans. And we haven't had any food up at this point.

I mean, this was a different experience. 39, at the island where we were doing the challenge. But the island where, and the way the rains work there, it's just, you know, it might rain on one island and then 50, you know, 500 yards away. There's no rain.

We get back to our camp and it's flooded. There's not a piece of dry wood anywhere. And there's no way we're going to make a fire. It's basically nighttime. And so now we're left through all this raw fish that we, you know, what do we do? And so, you know, a few of us were like, well, let's eat some of the raw fish. fish, but it's not like sushi grade. You have a rusty machete and we get this wine.

And obviously, in the castle charm and Bob Dogg and Bruce decided that they were going to go ham on a bottle of wine by themselves. Yeah. Let's go whole thing. Anyways, sorry. Sorry for that detour. People clamor for the old era. This is the type of shenanigans you would see.

Oh, my God. Oh, my God. The old era was great. The old era is great. Yeah. Okay. Let's see what we have in cover. We've got a lot of questions for you about Surrey.

Okay. Here's from your girl, Ashley, was know. Why do you think that three legends like Colby, Surrey, and Coach, didn't join forces and vote out Emily instead? Oh, gosh, that's a great question. On the outside, it makes a lot of sense. But there are so many relationships that are forming throughout the time that they're there. and each of those players is looking for their path to the end.

And it seems to me like there were lines drawn in the sand where Colby and Surrey were never going to be able to work together. And so it just wasn't going to happen. I mean, sorry to make this about me again, but since I'm on the podcast, I'll do it. We wanted to be about you. You're here. In Bloodworth's Water, before we went out there,

my brother and I spoke about what we would do after the merge. If we got to the merge and there was two more couples with us. Yeah. right and we said no matter who we're aligned with if there's two more couples that's the new alliance because if you don't have the majority of couples you're going to get picked off and then we get to the merge and there's two couples it's Tina and Katie and it's Laura and Sierra and we didn't do it because of other relationships that blinded us right so like you know rob from traders not not you Rob the good Rob yeah yeah

the good one, the winning Rob. Sorry, you were so good at Traders, by the way. First of all, you should go back, but you only go back if you're going to be a trader. Anyways, you know, Rob at Traders made that great quote. Like, why would I give a million dollars

someone I just met? But to the point of now, I knew Jervis, right? I wasn't going to bail on Jervis. Like he was someone who had been to his house. I had met his family and friends. So I think the same things happening here with Surrey and with Colby and with coach. I don't know what I think, you know, you kind of outlined it a little bit these other relations.

I think, you know, you've got you've got Surrey and Rizzo and Ozzy happening with D. And I think she probably feels more of a connection there. She's not going to, she sees that way to the finals and she doesn't see it with coach or with Colby. Yeah. I don't think that Surrey really feels at home with these old school players. I think that there is like this either arrangement or this alliance with a lot of the old school players. But Colby told me a story in his exit interview. He said that he had talked to Surrey before they played, that he was good with Surrey.

And then Jenna Lewis, when she targeted Surrey to start off the game, then left Surrey feeling a little bit like, hey, what the hell? Like I thought that Colby said Jenna Lewis was good. She comes after me out of the gate? I don't trust these guys. That's right. And think about it now back to blood versus water, right? Yeah. Jervis' niece gets voted out second.

Otis, you told me your brother was going to look out for my niece. Yeah. Right? Like these things happen early in the game and then even though Pohlby had nothing to do with it, it impacts his ability to forge a little. She didn't trust them anymore. And so going back to just mentioning blood versus water, are you surprised they haven't done more blood versus water?

since then, that they loved it so much when it was the first one. They did it immediately right after that. They took, the Kagyana did, like, let's do blood versus water again. For whatever reasons, it seemed like that the production, they didn't love San Juan Del Sur, even though it turned into a big hit with the fans over time. But we've gone through, like, now 21 seasons since that, and they've never gone back to that well. You know what I'd like to see? So, yes, I am surprised.

would like to see is because 21 seasons have passed, what I'd like to see is blood versus water, but the blood has to be generational. Yeah. So you're returning and then their children or children. I think that'd be interesting because then you get to see is like, you know, back to this story about trauma. Now we get to see like intergenerational trauma. Like how does the apple, you know, relate to the tree?

Yes. Okay. Are we still going to have Sierra and Laura? Are they part of it again? Sierra can bring her daughter. Oh, yeah. You know, that's the thing. Yeah, that we've always talked about that.

That that should be like the third generation of... Yeah, that'd be fascinating. Yes. That'd be really interesting. Yeah, because I think that Sierra's kids are like her oldest. I think it's probably old enough to play now. I think so. She must be.

Yeah, she must be. And then so now, maybe it's not Frances, but like definitely bring back someone who got voted out first, right? And so now like the story is like, can I, can I outplay my parents' shadow, right? Yeah. You have at least one winner. It won't be me. I mean, although my son River, I'm sure would love it to be us together.

You know, I know they'd love some way to bring Rob back. Another one of the good Robbs bring back, you know, now that, you know, the Rob and Amber's kids are probably approaching the age in which they could play. Yeah, and Sandra must have old enough children. Well, Sandra, Sandra's daughter, Nina, has played Australian Survivor twice. No way. Yes. Sandra did play Australian Survivor with her daughter. And then her daughter came back on another season without Sandra.

That's amazing. That's so cool. I mean, I'd love to see you and Dom play. That'd be fun. Well, we still got to wait a little while. We got about six years before that's available. Yeah, but I do think it's 18. Is 18 the age limit now?

18 is the age. Jeff talked about one time. like, hey, if you're 16 play, like that seems a little bit, you know, let's not get too carried away. But yeah, I think even if they waited a couple of years, I think that that's a really good idea for a season. Yeah, it'd be fun. It'd be really fun to see. And I think it's got to be, it's got to be some players that are somewhat iconic and have a specific

style of play so that you can really measure the offspring against that. You know what I mean? Like, for example, not to be too self-deprecating, but like my second season, we're sitting around and it's it's before the first challenge and it's the returning players and we circle around jeff jeff how did you describe each of us in your pregame and he got to me and he said you're the most boring winner in the history of the show now do i think that's true maybe but it definitely isn't not anymore not anymore there's been boringer since no but my my point is is that like you need for this to work for blood to walk for blood to water work for blood verse water to

work generationally. You need very iconic styles of not just gameplay, but of just like interacting. Yeah. You played in season 12. It was early on. I think that to be boring and be like a well-rounded person, like it is not that much of an insult. Like, listen, look at the people, look at the people who won, like, you know, you might take being boring compared to, you. You know, you might take being boring compared to some of the people. No, I actually, it's funny because it's true. That's true. And I'm sure you've had this moment, Rob,

where you look around and you're like, wait a second. They have this casting department that has been tasked with finding the maximum amount of drama for entertainment and they cast me. Yeah. You know, like, there has to be that moment of reflection of like, oh, shit. Like, what is it about me that's going to provide maximum drama? and what is there to look at separate from the game, just like, oh, I'm one of them.

So to be boring was actually, I thought it was funny and also just goes to show what big personalities they cast. Because I'm, anyone who knows me in person knows I'm not a small personality. No. And you're like, whoa, imagine. Like, I just read telling my friends all the time. I'm like, if you think I'm a big personality,

I'm the most boring relative to some of these people. Mm-hmm. and you fought with Terry, you had a lot of drama going on in your season. I think that by comparison, you were like, you and Surrey were sort of like the normal people in a sitcom.

That's right. That's right. We were, yeah, we were placed in a wild setup. But by the way, speaking of Terry, I played golf with him

right before Christmas. Yes. Who won? Great goal. Who did better? Terry. Yeah. Who did Terry won?

Who do you think one? Terry one. Because Sam, people, how often do people quote Wambulence when they see you in public? Probably never, right? You know, okay, so to be fair, I don't look much like I looked like on Survivor.

More wrinkles, balding, big beard. 40 pounds heavier. But when I do get recognized, wambulence is usually right below the surface. Yeah. It's nice to know that my contribution to humanity was that. Okay. All right. Gardner 141 says, who from your two seasons who hasn't returned should get a shot to play again?

Easy. Shane Powers. Okay. I mean, that's a, truly, the reason Shane hasn't been cast again, in my opinion, is Shane was awful with production. So you know when you're in the tents about to go to tribal or you're in the medical, whatever, Shane would lambast production. Like he would scream at them. he would, and I think that's why he has been casting,

because he was so good on TV. I mean, as an entertainer. Yeah. Any smart guy. Sure. He is captivating to listen to any time, and I'm still in pretty regular contact with Shane, and he always has interesting things to say.

He's got hot takes. Hot takes, sure. And not everybody can always handle the takes because they're too hot, and I don't know if that's what they're looking for. that they want sort of like medium takes. Right, right. Well, Shane had this gift where he could, he could say something to your face,

you know, akin to like your mother's a prostitute, something so offensive, right? And you could be really offended. And five minutes later, he could have you eaten out of the palm of his hand. He, like,

he knew how to, he couldn't control himself all the time. He couldn't self-regulate all the time, but he could win it back, you know? It was a fascinating, fascinating character. but so Rob, I mean, Shane for sure.

I think Austin Cardi would be fun to watch play again. Really? Yeah. You've talked about him over the user. And is he a preacher? Is he a preacher? He's a pretty successful. He's an author.

He's just, he's a real charismatic guy. He's smart. I think he'd be fun to watch play. Depending on like, I don't think it would. So I'm going to say this and it's an indictment of myself as well, kind of my gameplay. I wouldn't be interested in watching Austin play if he was just going to say, like, I'm just going to tell the truth.

And like, that's what it is from a religious perspective. That's not that fun to watch. I really appreciate Joe's commitment to loyalty and telling the truth. And it's important, I guess, to have one character who's not going to bend. But it's not that interesting from a gameplay perspective. Yeah. You know what I mean? But I agree that having one person who's like that.

Like, I think that Survivor 48 was not that interesting. because you had Joe who is at the top of everything with Kyle sort of like drafting off of his position waiting to the right move or for the right moment to make his move. But I think that Joe controlling things like, hey, this is how we run things around here. But Joe sort of like being on the outskirts of things

in this season I think is much more interesting. Yeah. So now it becomes an interesting moment because now you have that polarization, right? But because Joe was dominating the game before, you didn't get the polarity of, I'm going to play and I'm not going to play. But now you have something happening. But yeah, so I think it becomes, I don't know, I'm curious to see how Joe's arc in terms of game to the rest of the season. Second drink wants to ask you, can you refresh us on how bad your day 39 fall was?

What were you thinking at the time? If you have any clue, what would have happened if you had to be medevac? right right yeah that would have been gnarly Danielle you win by default um what would they do with this end the show there but they would they go to five would she go to tribal council yeah I don't bring back Terry like what do you do right yeah I don't know um so so the story of that is they give us the champagne and orange juice to celebrate the you know there's a whole meal yeah that we ate and then like they say hey why don't you go drink this on the rocks now I don't drink alcohol, so I was never going to drink the champagne.

But they're like, just go bring it out there and pretend like you're going to drink it. For those of you listening home, very rarely do they ever intervene it on anything. But when there's just two left and they need this shot, they ask for the shot. I never had an experience where they asked me to say anything or do anything on not true. But this was the last two. Let's get this kind of iconic sunset shot with you guys. So these were rocks that I'd been on a thousand times to get snails and a couple of eels or whatever. I knew it very well.

And I'd always be barefoot. I had my shoes on for whatever reason. I don't know. And when you're barefoot, you can feel it better. And I said, like, maybe 20 seconds, 10 seconds before I slip. Danielle, be careful, the rocks are slippery. And then I remember I had the flute, the champagne flute in one hand and the bottle and the other.

And the rest, the rest sister, I still have a scar on my back from where the glass one in. Oh, my God. Yeah. And then I still have the scar on my hand. I wonder if you can see. Let's see. Can you see this scar right here? Yeah.

That's right. Yes. I'm reading your palm also. That's right. I see a great success in the garment industry. Schmata man. Yes. Listen, I don't want to be a one-upper, but yesterday I got off the plane and I was so tired.

I said, okay, let me get a cup of coffee. I had, I was going to my car in the airport elevator in the park. garage. A cup of hot coffee. I had my laptop bag on my shoulder and my laptop bag slipped. Like it like pulled my arm down. My cup of hot coffee like went flying. I splashed myself in the face with hot coffee and my coffee went like all over the elevator. There were other people in the elevator. I always said, did you hear any of the other people? No, but I was just like, just like imagine like pouring like a huge cup of coffee on the floor in the middle of an elevator. And I just said to the people, I'm just, I'm so sorry that you had to see.

see this. And I was so tired. Was it dead silence? Was it dead silence? Did anybody respond? They didn't laugh at me, which I appreciated. I think when there's dead silence,

it's the worst. Like if no one gave me like kind of just like, oh, it's okay, buddy. It was just like, it was like such a comedy of our, like the bit the bag slept, the coffee went to splash my face,

went on the floor. I think you won up my, I think you went up. No, no, but what would have happened if they would have, like, were they,

were they considering like, we had to get them out of here? Yeah, man, I don't, I really, I mean, I don't think it was to that point. Now that I think back on it, I'm like, I mean, that could have been a serious, like, if that would have gone deeper, I could have, you know. Or if you hit your head. It wasn't. Yeah.

If I had hit my head, yeah. Like, who, like, what, couldn't, couldn't think straight. You know the story. You know the cocaine story of our season. Sure. They found, the cocaine washed up on the shore. Yeah, I think, I think that was, I think, you know, the thing that was interesting about that story is that forever, you know, that was early. That was like day 12. Every day after that,

when they would switch crews, they'd vote in. You'd see the crew leaving waiting in the water looking for more. I don't know why I bring it up because they got to protect the contestants. They got to make sure that everybody's very, very safe on the beach. By the way, I did, I did talk to somebody on the show and find out what they did with that quite recently. Yes, turned it into the authorities. Some of it. Yeah. There's a question here from North who wants to ask you that there's been a lot of talk about the Surrey, about Surrey adopting kids and family members.

Where does Otis fit into the Fields family tree after Panama? Okay, so first off, did you tune in at all when Surrey was on Big Brother? I never, never saw her. Okay. Did she? She did well. She seemed like she wasn't that into it, the end. It did not seem like she was having that.

Her son was on there with him. Jared was in that, but Jared then was out. And then, I mean, you probably know Jared from when he was a baby. Yeah. I mean, he wasn't a baby, but we were young. Yeah, he was in Atlanta, too, this week. But they both played, speaking of Blood versus Water, they both played in that season of Big Brother. But then Jared was on the jury.

Seria one point was considering that she wanted to go home to help Jared out in the game. But she ends up going far. But she's really kind of over it as it gets. like later on in the season, especially where one person, the guy who won was really dominating all the physical competitions. It was a season where the comps were all very, you had to be very physically fit to win the comps. And so she's kind of over it towards the end of it.

But in that season, there was a woman Izzy who was a huge Surrey fan, enough so that she even recognized Jared when, and she knew that Surrey and Jared were playing. That's impressive. Yes, yes, she was such a big fan. and that they say that Izzy has been adopted into the Fields family. Wow. Well, I don't feel like I was adopted in. Maybe I'm like the funkel, you know?

Maybe that's where I sit now. So, yeah, I don't, I mean, I talk to Surrey, separate from Survivor stuff, I talked to three once a year, we'll check in, and there's just a ton of love there. Yes. You know, a long time ago, 20 years ago. Yes. As a Traders Watcher, though, you must have been very impressed with her run on the first season of the traders.

Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. Again, but you know, so I just want to make sure that we're comparing apples to apples here, Rob. Had you been a trader, you probably win. You know, I came in and I wanted to be a faithful. I was very where, and maybe too much so of, hey, Boston Rob has just played. And maybe because my whole life of my survivor life, like I've sort of been like in

the shadow of Rob Mariano where going back to, you know, like in knowing him and through no fault of his own except for when I got voted out and so I roll stars you know being the other Rob the Rob that sucks I really just felt like that coming in

the season after Rob was a traitor and so many of the reality people traders I thought that I wanted to like really have my own path which was hey I want to be I want to be the best faithful

there ever was because I had said I felt like that the traders win the game or the traders lose the game and with the With all due respect to the, you know, the traders that won in season two and season, or the faithful that won in season two and season three, I felt like that the traders imploded more so than the faithful took it to the traders in those seasons. And I thought, I'm going to come in.

I'm going to change the way people are going to play the game as a faithful. Uh-huh. And that might have been a mistake. Yeah. And I think, I think, like, I understand how you feel. That makes a lot of sense. Again, it's like, it's so fascinating. It got me excited.

this trauma like this through threat of trauma of like you and rob right and then coming in but i think i just think that the traders the way the game set up now it's so heavily favors the traitor yeah it because and especially someone like you i think i think you underestimated your the way people hold you right like people hold you as a very smart astute critical thinker who's a good gamer that means that Unless you're surrounded by other really good gamers, when you're playing mafia, the first, if you're in the mafia, right, the first ones that go out are the ones that they're going to sniff things out or other. Yeah.

I also thought that I was going into a situation where I'm like, these people don't know who I am. Like, I am not a known commodity outside of the survivor community. I really felt like, okay, yeah, the gamers will know who I am, but none of these housewives know who I am, none of these other people, none of the bachelor. But see Surrey and Rob, Surrey and Rob ruined it for you because it's like, oh, now when you combine shows in a game, be mindful of the survivor contestants,

irregardless of how they placed on their season. Right? Yeah. So I didn't realize what I was quite up against, but I really did convince myself that, hey, I'm going to go in there and I'm just going to be like a faithful, and I'm going to take it to the traders. Can I ask you a few more questions about the show?

Sure. What was it like for you seeing Jam Jam and Natalie? Like did you kind of, like, were you holding that one of them may have been? I thought Jam Jam was a traitor. So, you know, I've talked about this that when I got there, one of the things that annoyed me was that Jam Jam was telling everybody, oh my God, do you know who this is? This is the mastermind of Survivor. He was telling people. And I came in thinking like, okay, people aren't, Michael Rapaport doesn't know who I am.

and but here was jam jam, like telling everybody like, oh my God, he's, he's, he's, that he, did you see his season? Like, uh, and, uh, I did, I didn't like that that he, uh, was doing that. Um, but Natalie, I thought that Natalie was going to come in and I was going to work with Natalie like, oh, this is going to be great. I love Natalie on Survivor. Right, right. And did you guys end up having any like, not that much. Not that much. Uh, I think in hindsight, I don't know if Natalie was like so thrilled about the prospect of like really buddying up to me. I think that maybe that she was like, hey, I want to I want to buddy up to like people

I can trust like Rob R and culting. Right. That's definitely trustworthy. Right. Right. I don't want to be necessarily seen so much. And I think that we, you know, but Natalie was not going to vote against me or wasn't trying to throw me under the bus, but I just got the sense that there were, she had other

people she really wanted to work with. Right. I will say this. In my experience, and just playing like around the table mafia is that I, my first kind of don't lose is don't lose to the person that you know is good at the game. Yeah. Like don't be that foolish not to get the good one out. So in that sense, you were up against that, right? Which also is like, now back to 50, how they haven't voted Suria out yet is crazy. I think that people want to work with her. I think that you have players who have watched her and this certainly was the

case when she played in Australia where there was a woman Lisa who was a winner in Survivor in New Zealand was like, oh my God, I can't believe, I'm on the beach with Surrey. I've always wanted to play with Surrey. And so I think that Ceri's so good at this that she there's like this desire

to play with her. Right, because she's going to get you to a certain place but it's then are you going to I'm probably going to lose anyway, but what if I'm friends with Surrey after this. Ooh. Yeah. What's the, the ancillary benefit far outweighs the million dollars? Which, by the way, Rob, I did a little math. Yeah.

And I don't remember the numbers because I don't remember HHS either, but I did do some math to try to understand the difference between winning a million dollars in 2006 and 2006. And it is quite the delta. Yes, yes. Boy, it gets even worse if you don't pay the taxes. Do you hear what you have to pay? when you don't pay the taxes for 26 years?

What happens? It was in the news this week that Richard Hatch owes, like, they want over $3 million from Richard Hatch for the interest on the taxes that they say he didn't pay. Still, to this day. Yes. What? I thought he went to jail.

And they said, no, that's just because that was just for, he went to jail for the crime of not paying the taxes. He still has to, like, I thought he just went to, like, I guess it's not like monopoly where you just go to jail instead of paying the money. Whoa, I didn't know that. So why didn't Richard get cast for this season? I think a lot of reasons.

Give me two, besides the $3 million. Yeah. Well, I think that the biggest thing was that they didn't want him for winners at war. Or I think that he said that they called him and they left him at the... So, I don't know. I think that they did not want.

I know a lot of people don't love everything that came out of Survivor All-Stars with the situation with him and Sue. So I think that maybe they felt like there's a lot of baggage there with Richard. Another question for it. Do you think that there was any guarantees paid out for 50? So I don't, I can't speak to, I don't know for a fact. I got the sense that they had a bit of a hard line with people and said, hey, do it or don't. We'll replace you if you don't want it.

Like, this is what everybody's getting. Okay. Okay. Wow. So, but they did give some kind of guarantee. There was some level of. I think they got a little bit of money to like everybody got an appearance fee. Because my understanding past seasons was certain returning players.

Yes. It was a negotiation. I think that was the case with winners at war. giving nothing my second season. I was I was not exactly a commodity that was being sought after. Yes. I did get called for 40. Yes.

And that was a quick answer. You said no. It was a no thing. Okay. Immediately. Oh, but that's nice to get the call. It was great to get the call. It was also, it wasn't, I mean, my, you know, at that point, my son was born and it was

like, I'm not going to spend the areas in the background. Both of them. Boys, other room, please. Other room. you. Yeah. It was nice to get the call. It was nice to know. But, you know, I also was acutely aware that they were probably going to call every single winner just to see kind of status. But I was, I don't think they called every single winner. Most, I'm sure. But I, you know, it's interesting. It's like our company is doing well. Yeah. And, you know, two kids. And it was

like, I think it 40 was, was that still 39 days? Yes. Last one. Yeah. I was. I was like, all right, that was going to be 39 days. So call it, call it 50 days away from the family. But worse, it's like starving and not sleeping. And I'm sure, you know, you remember. Just it's not, when you go out there, it's not, it's not the 39 days. It's the recovery from it when you get home. It's then watching yourself on TV.

It's a solid year of your life that it just kind of shakes the snow globe. And I had enough shake into the snow globe. I didn't need it anymore. Yeah. Okay. And Trevor Chong was on, what is the oddest thing that has happened this season? Gosh. I'm curious to hear your answer. Well, I think it has to be Zach Brown, right? Oh, well, I don't know if that's odd. It just doesn't make any sense. It's kind of just like a red herring. Like, thank you for this, but why? Now I'm worried. Now I'm like, maybe the Billy Elish idol? Like, what is that? Like, just saying her name? Like, I don't know. That's odd. But I am curious now, like, is Mr. Beast going to be four episodes? Like, what happens there? Yeah.

What do you think is going to happen? Well, I made a video that, you know, in Beast Games, which I podcast about, like, Mr. Beetz has a coin, there's a coin in the Mr. Beast Games, and we've seen the coin in the promo and in the credits for Survivor, where, in that somebody in Beast Games has flipped the Mr. Beast coin and doubled the prize money. Oh. Oh, I like that. Yeah.

I mean, if they don't, see, see, that makes sense to me. if the prize money, speaking of inflation, isn't increased for 50, that feels like a miss. Yeah. It was $2 million for winners at war. Right. That's what I mean.

So how can you take $50 and leave it at a million? Suggesting that after 25 years. Well, but I've talked about this on the podcast a bit over the last few years. It's not about winning a million dollars anymore. Survivor has ceased to become a show that you go on to go play for a million dollars. You go back to Survivor. Survivor to, in season 50, to vanquish your demons, to like, exercise what has happened to you in the past, to heal from old wounds, but not to win a million dollars. And for players who play

in new era seasons, it's not about, hey, I'm going to go on Survivor to go and win the money. If it is, it's only in the framed as like, I'm doing this for my family. It's not like that I, that I am like, what am I willing to do to get that money for myself? They only talk about it like, hey, I'm providing for my family by being here. But that's sort of like in the greater context of what's the journey that I'm on as a person? And what am I discovering in this journey of self-discovery by being on Survivor? I think that's right. And I also think there's probably, along with that is probably a level of like building my own social media influence.

and fame and, you know, and my career in the game show of the world. Maybe, but I don't really know if, like, who's the last person to come out of Survivor? Who's had that? Maybe Carolyn, like a little bit? I think Carolyn, maybe counts. I think Natalie. Natalie Anderson? Yeah.

I guess that's a while ago. That's 21 seasons ago, right? Yeah. Gosh, I mean, I think Rizzo for sure is going to. We haven't seen the end of Rizzo. We haven't seen the end of Rizzo. I'm not sure what Rizzo's career looks like outside of being a survivor. Well, I think, like, you look at Surique.

Sure. Look at Tyson. Like, they, you know, they've figured out ways how to, like, keep the, keep the faucet running, so to speak. Yeah. With these shows. Parvety. Sure.

The icons. But you're right. We're talking about, it's interesting because all these names are Rob, you know, both Rob's. we're talking about both the good ones yeah yes all all the survivor robs we're talking about players who were early early adopters yeah you're right that new school players haven't really is there a new school player that's really capitalized on because what's fascinating here's a fascinating thing rob survivors now tagging their players on instagram yes you notice which is a new thing right

they didn't use to do that there is instagram there's like there is social media now that's that's that's actually it's actually you know you're able to to do something with it in terms of monetize it um out the world and so you can build a following uh but the ones that have made the biggest followings are actually the old school players is fascinating fascinating fascinating conundrum yeah i don't understand i keep thinking about that book you gave me jab jab hook Oh, for Gary Vaynerchuk. Great book. You gave that to me right when I started Christy Dunn.

Yeah. It used to sit on my bookshelf, but I have no books on my bookshelf now. Yes. It used to sit there. Well, he's the master at a really, really smart guy. Anyway, speaking of smart guys, Otis, thank you so much for all of your time here today. And the kids have been so good. My kids would have been screaming, fighting.

You guys want to come say how to Rob? Come here, boys. Come on. Come say hi. Come, come, come. This is Rob. I think River you've met Rob before. Yes.

I've been to a birthday party before. That's right. And this is Sage. Now, speaking of the Rob from Traders, doesn't he look like Rob from Traders? Yes. Are you ready to go be in the young Rob Rouch? I want to be him.

Yeah, put him in suspenders and see what happens. Rob, thanks for having me. It's been great. It's been so long. Yeah, thank you. Is this fun? No, he said. Traders fun. Oh, traders's fun. Yes, Traders is very fun. It's even more fun when you get to stay for a time.

I was briefly. One night. He got voted out. He got taken out by someone who looked just like you, Sage. And I better not see anybody doing a conga line next time I come to a birthday party. Yeah, that was odd. That was the oddest thing that I saw. Yeah.

Yeah, agreed. What happened every birthday? We'll talk about it later. Rob, thanks for having me. Yeah, thank you so much. Thanks everybody for joining us. Take care. Have a good one.

If you don't play Tidy Way Days as my intro song to this, I'll be diso. Well, I'll have to do it. That's the outro. Okay. Okay. All right. I'll see you, Rob. Good to see it.

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